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Sunday, September 16, 2007
Kevin McCullough :: Townhall.com Columnist
Liberals Lie, Children Die
by Kevin McCullough
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At this very moment one of the most liberal organizations in our nation has fraudulent papers before a court in the Midwest awaiting permission to begin the systematic slaughter of innocent children on Tuesday.

Using false pretense, misdirected answers on applications, and fraudulent forms Planned Parenthood is awaiting word to see if it will be allowed to open a super-butchery in Aurora Illinois this coming Tuesday. The situation highlights a new trend for the tax-payer subsidized organization that is now resorting to lying to municipalities and their populations in order to set up shop, hack women's uteruses and slice children's bodies like lunchmeat. Some of the children just inches from birth.

The way it works is first they set-up a phony name for a phony company. In the Aurora Illinois case they filed their fraudulent permits under the name of Gemini Office Management Corporation. Pretending to be a neutral landlord, they then asserted on the forms requesting the construction permits that the "tenant is unknown."

With the municipality duped, the residents of Aurora feel betrayed. Several reports have emanated from the region demonstrating that even people who do not normally protest abortion publicly are outraged and feel that they have been lied to.

And they should feel this way, because they have.

Steve Trombley, head of Planned Parenthood Chicago, said in an interview with Fox News that it was his feeling that Planned Parenthood had answered every question honestly and that his crew had followed the letter of the law.

He them added, "We did however work hard to make sure that our opponents did not find out."

But doesn't purposefully deceiving city officials on municipal legal forms, permits, and applications add up to fraud?

The Village of Aurora thought so. At least enough to haul Planned Parenthood before the judge who will now decide the case? The Aurora case follows similar deceptions in Texas, Washington DC, and New York. In the Texas case the deceptions even extended to the contractors working on the structure. To which when they discovered what they were building - walked out on the job and never completed it.

It is horrific enough that the purpose in the original founding of Planned Parenthood was to originally wipe out the future generations of black children. To understand the depth of the racism Margaret Sanger practiced and believed personally is nauseating. She detailed much of it for posterity in her own writings.

It is equally disturbing that Planned Parenthood has championed the practice of giving aid to child rapists. The average age of the girls seeking abortions in Planned Parenthood's facilities ranges 14-17. The average age of the sperm donors in these same cases ranges 23-28. Multiple sting operations across the country have netted endless hours of taped phone calls demonstrating how the Planned Parenthood operators encourage the girl to not volunteer her age over the phone as a willful act perpetrating supposed ignorance for the ability to plead, "That they didn't know." Under nearly all state law if a medical clinic has been made aware that a rape has occurred they are legally obligated to report it. This practice goes largely ignored by Planned Parenthood. Thus giving the rapists another day to live, breathe, and rape again.

Recently Planned Parenthood has gotten greedy. As a "not for profit" 501c3 they are licensed by and partially funded by the United States government claiming to offer medical care for girls to poor to be able to pay for it. 'Cause you know nothing says compassion like slicing up a "black-girl's-inner-city-they-would-prefer-this-than-being-born" baby while still in the girl's womb. Raking in over $60 million dollars in profit for the calendar year of 2006, they received tax-payer funding to the tune of $305 million.

Worst yet Planned Parenthood doesn't just lie to the courts, to law enforcement, to local school boards, to parents, to the citizens, to the tax-payers - but perhaps most importantly they lie to girls themselves.

Personal first hand testimony by women numbering in the thousands will attest to what they have been told countless times.

"It's not alive, it's just a tissue."

"No the baby can't feel a thing."

"You shouldn't experience any additional medical problems." And the list gets long...

Two truths need and must be understood about Planned Parenthood. They lie to everyone about nearly everything and liberals love them.

In liberal America Planned Parenthood is treated as a golden calf. Their issues are fought for endlessly by elected liberals who take money from their operation of human butcher shops and live a cushy life getting re-elected dozens of times over.

Planned Parenthood has taken the lives of more young people since 1973 than we have lost in all of America's wars put together. In fact by now in order to get an idea of how many deaths they have been responsible for - just pretend that nuclear weapons detonated in and wiped out the entire populations of New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, San Francisco, Dallas, Philadelphia, and Washington DC combined. (Though you'd still come up on the short side.) Imagine wiping out 40 million 34 year olds and younger.

THAT is the legacy of Planned Parenthood, and every liberal democrat (the majority of them) and every liberal republican (fewer but still sickening) wears upon them today.

Tuesday will be a sad day if the Aurora Planned Parenthood Super-Butchery opens; their stated goal is to put the "mom and pop" abortion shops out of business.

And since they are given a portion of the federal taxes we all pay - that makes us all guilty of the pain, abuse, malpractice, and murder that will take place there.

God have mercy on us all!

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About The Author
Kevin McCullough is the nationally syndicated host of "'Xtreme' Radio and columnist based in New York. He blogs at www.muscleheadrevolution.com. His second book "The Kind Of MAN Every Man SHOULD Be" is in stores now.

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For once, eminent domain is the answer
Ordinarily I'm opposed to the use of eminent domain in any but the most necessary of cases. But the Planned Fraudulenthood case of setting up an Auschwitz for kids in Aurora makes it one of those most necessary of cases.

The municipality of Aurora should take the property from Planned Parenthood under eminent domain and establish in its place a monument to the unborn child - as well as a museum to put on display the horrific criminality of the Planned Parenthood racketeering operation.

Liberals = Planned Parenthood
Margaret Sanger, Founder of Planned Parenthood,
in her own words....

"The most merciful thing that a large family does to one of its infant members is to kill it."

On sterilization & racial purification:
Sanger believed that, for the purpose of racial "purification," couples should be rewarded who chose sterilization. Birth Control in America, The Career of Margaret Sanger, by David Kennedy, p. 117, quoting a 1923 Sanger speech.

On the right of married couples to bear children:
Couples should be required to submit applications to have a child, she wrote in her "Plan for Peace." Birth Control Review, April 1932

On the purpose of birth control:
The purpose in promoting birth control was "to create a race of thoroughbreds," she wrote in the Birth Control Review, Nov. 1921 (p. 2)

On the rights of the handicapped and mentally ill, and racial minorities:
"More children from the fit, less from the unfit -- that is the chief aim of birth control." Birth Control Review, May 1919, p. 12


A murderess lauded as a hero
In one of Time Magazines "100 Most Influential People issues,http://www.time.com/time/time100/leaders/profile/sanger.html
I believe the 2003 edition, In a column titled "Leaders and Revolutionaries," Gloria Steinem wrote an article extolling the "virtues" of this feminine Josef Goebbels, portraying her as "a victim" of unwarranted persecution by evil men who wanted to keep women brefoot and pregnant.

I only read part of this pack of lies because one can only stomach so much BS before losing their lunch.
The sad part is that Steinem is not alone in raving praise(read BLATANT LIES) of this murderess.
Sanger is responsible for starting an organization that, as one person already stated, is responsible for the deaths of over 45 million unborn children since 1973(Roe v Wade) alone and people act as if this woman should be eligible for sainthood.
I say she should be at or near the top of the list of the most heinous serial killers of all time.
I PRAY that the people and courts of Aurora, Illinois, slam the door on this organization and throw the people who lied on the permit applications into prison for a LONG time.

Sorry, the link didn't work
http://www.time.com/time/time100/leaders/profile/sanger.html


Here, again is the link to the Time Magazine LIE about MURDERESS Margaret Sanger.
I hope it works this time.

More numbers
"Planned Parenthood has taken the lives of more young people since 1973 than we have lost in all of America's wars put together."
Traffic deaths have taken more lives in 40 years than ALL wars the U.S. have been involved in in it's history. 60% of those contributable to alcohol.
As for the article, abortion is murder for the convenience of the mother unless it is performed for specific medical reasons (ie: health of mother, rape, gross deformity, etc.) The candidates haven't brought this up as I recall from the debates but I am leaning toward who the anti-abortion candidate is and will end the genocide of the unborn.

Lies and the Lying Liars who tell them
Late one night last week, my son and his wife dropped by to show off their new DVD. So we plopped down on the couch, he slid the disc in the tray and a 3-D image of a tiny baby girl, turning flips, popped up in HD. "Say hello to your new grandaughter!" said the proud parents. They were laughing and grinning as they narrated every summersault. I have never seen anything so beautiful. Sure, that's what every grandparent says. But, really, the perfectly formed toes, the cute little nose, the dainty hands. Amazing what medical technology can show you today. The resolution was so sharp we could count her ribs and see all the vertebrae in her spine. She is 3 months along. The Planned Parenthood folks would call it the "first trimester" when trying to talk another scared teenager into "safely" vacuuming the child out of her womb. "It's not a baby," they would lie, "just a blob of tissue. It can't feel anything." The people who can't feel anything are the blinded liars of Planned Parenthood. The court in Aurora, Illinois, should take a look at a DVD like the one of my grandaughter before they allow these people to open another killing factory, another Auschwitz for babies in America. Founded on lies by a liar, perpetuated by greedy, thoughtless, selfish people, Planned Parenthood has presided over the destruction of millions of children. Isn't it time to stop them?

Planned Parenthood is Satan
PP promotes the murder of our future. Medical doctors earn millions of dollars killing babies. We support this with United Way and our tax dollars. This has absolutely nothing to do with the rights of women or control of their bodies. It is only about death and money.
How much longer will America tolerate this barbarism?

It is time
to start demanding a Supreme Court review of the Roe v. Wade decision.

Put these lying [censored] people out of business.

Quick edit!
You wrote, "Planned Parenthood is awaiting word to see if it will be allowed to open a super-butchery in Aurora Illinois this coming Tuesday."

My edit would have read, "Planned Parenthood is awaiting word to see if it will be allowed to open a super-butchery in Aurora, Illinois this coming Tuesday." You forgot the comma that goes between the names of cities and states, Kevin.

See more at www.openlineblog.com
We encourage anyone interested in the details, player and controversy surrounding this issue to review our blog at http://www.openlineblog.com.

While both sides have called the situation in Aurora (2nd largest city in Illinois), the "ground zero" in the abortion battle, it's also about how city government works and developers work with it.

What An Appalling Article
"Super-butchery?"
"Lunchmeat?"

The facts are that Planned Parenthood wants to establish a clinic in Aurora, Illinois, a suburb of Chicago. This clinic would supply many women's health services as well as abortion, which, by the way, happens to be legal in the United States. However, anticipating trouble from foes of legal abortion, Planned Parenthood chose to finesse the establishment of the clinic. Unfortunately, those who do not tolerate letting others follow a law they themselves oppose are now causing the mess Planned Parenthood had hoped to avoid.

People in the United States have a right to obtain legal medical services in their own community.

Story of the "Fetal Hand Grasp"

http://www.michaelclancy.com/story.html

"As a veteran photojournalist in Nashville, Tennessee, I was hired by USA Today newspaper to photograph a spina bifida corrective surgical procedure. It was to be performed on a twenty-one week old fetus in utero at Vanderbilt University Medical Center. At that time, in 1999, twenty-one weeks in utero was the earliest that the surgical team would consider for surgery.

"The doctor reached over and lifted the hand, which reacted and squeezed the doctor's finger. As if testing for strength, the doctor shook the tiny fist. Samuel held firm. I took the picture! Wow! It happened so fast that the nurse standing next to me asked, 'What happened?' 'The child reached out,' I said. 'Oh. They do that all the time,' she responded."


The photo is at the end of the article. No more need be said!!!



Challenging Times
It seems that the affronts and outright assaults on any sense of morality continue to come from every angle. In some sense, the liberals are pretty smart. Create alliances with everyone of similar moral standings, identify your enemy and relentlessly attack. Whether it is the abortionist, the feminist, the homosexualsit, the Darwinist, the socialist, the marxist, the illegal-alienest or the traitorous, they are all allied in a common cause of wiping out the West and Judeo-Christian values. They lie, yell, cry, riot, sue, propagandize and proselytize for their cause 24 and seven, leaving a traditionalist and classical liberal wondering where to begin fighting back.

ABORTION IS MURDER!!!
lilly, you need to start educating yourself!

I'll even make it easy for you......

Margaret Sanger, Founder of Planned Parenthood, In Her Own Words
http://www.dianedew.com/sanger.htm

Planned Parenthood
http://www.abortionfacts.com/planned_parenthood/planned_parenthood.asp

How Planned Parenthood Duped America
http://www.blackgenocide.org/sanger.html


Lily
The fact are that abortion is murder. The facts are, killing Jews in Nazi Germany was legal. The facts are, there is no "health services" at an abortion clinic. The facts are, it is unhealthy for a baby at a Planned Parenthood facility

The Massacre of the Innocent
In an age when all kinds and methods of preventing conception are available Americans chose the most primitive, brutal way of destroying future generations. Ideas have consequences and to believe that the slaughter of millions of children will have no impact on our culture and civilization is the ultimate in fantasies. Like Adoph Hitler, liberals believe they can mold human beings and societies. Those who have sown this terrible killing machine mantra, like Hitler, will reap the whirlwind and, sadly, the rest of us who stood by will also suffer.

Anne
Give up on Lily being educated. She is so brain washed by the left, that she will learn nothing. You might say that she is uneducatable.

Lily
As Bluepiper pointed out, the Holocaust was nice and legal in Germany. Whether or not something is legal has no bearing on whether or not it is moral.

Regarding the article, Mr. McCullough, the words, "Nasty. Brutal. True," come to mind. That this is taxpayer-funded just adds the vomitous icing to the cake.

leftists are nazis
'Tis amazing that Democrats used our military in WWII to defend communist Russia from nazi Germany but today the Democrats defend the Margaret Sanger's nazi movement (planned parenthood).

Moe: You're probably right!

The scary thing is that lilly claims to have been a teacher...

IF that's true, it gives me the chills to think she was teaching anyone about anything!

If she's an example of who and what is in charge of teaching our children, no wonder we're in the mess we're in!


And, lest we forget....

This murder will continue unless we get a Republican in the WH...

And, not just any Republican. We need to have a committed PRO-LIFE Republican who will start the fight to overturn Roe!



Outhouse Mouse!!! Rick
The subject is the birth or death of millions and you focus on a comma????? Where are your priorities?

Anne
I just read the article you linked to. What a travesty. Unless we do as you say, and elect an anti-abortion, Republican, President, we are doomed as a country. We must stop this nonsense, if it is not too late.

Anne
The fight is on the SCOTUS. This is the basic reason to hold ones nose and vote RINO. 08 is going to be tough. I just hope to have someone to vote FOR, rather than merely lesser of 2 evils. But Reagan is gone.

See it for what it is
I always pray that God would allow people to see abortion in all it's ugliness. If they did, they would not be able to support it. The truth will set us free. Abortion is murder & it is not without consequences.

Planned Parenthood Genocide State
“In fact by now in order to get an idea of how many deaths they have been responsible for ...”

20,946,000 Murdered in the Nazi Genocide State – http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/NOTE1.HTM

46,000,000+ murdered in the Planned Parenthood Genocide State –

http://www.priestsforlife.org/resources/photosassorted/index.htm

http://www.priestsforlife.org/resources/monica/mm1.htm

http://www.priestsforlife.org/resources/monica/mm2.htm

http://www.priestsforlife.org/resources/abortionimages/07week/01_07.jpg


Savage99 & Moe: A REAL Conservative

Republican pres. is the only way we have a chance of getting more Conservatives on the SCOTUS.

Too late? I don't believe it's ever too late!

What I find interesting is that the only viable Conservative candidates at the moment are Thompson and Hunter (and maybe Romney?) who are ALSO on the right side (opposed to the wrong side which is the same as the left side!) of the WOT and illegal immigration.





Lily is right.
The fact is that women have always had abortions, and they will always have abortions. The only thing you're doing is taking away their right to proper medical care.

Yes, abortion sucks, and it's a shame that we don't live in a fantasyland where every baby is worshipped like a God.

Instead, we conservatives vilify the mothers who dared have sex, filling their world with hate. No wonder they don't want to bring children into it.

These days, I'm almost sorry that I did.

MissAnn- Why people fail to see the
humanity of the infant inside the womb may very well be the work of the devil, who blinds people to the truth.

We now have a technological "window" into the womb in the form of the ultrasound, but it has been there for many years, and yet many are in denial about the humanity of the infant who is being killed.

But there is something else afoot. Girls who are too tender-hearted to drown a kitten, and men who are shocked that dogs are killed because they fail to fight, don't blink an eye at the cruel slaughter of these helpless babies.

The blindness is very distressing, and can only be cured by shining the light of truth on the subject, and by never giving up.

NEVER GIVE UP.

Statistics
Maybe not the right venue, but for years the baiting question in interchanges has been "And if your daughter or wife was raped, wouldn't you think differently . . . " Is there a definitive statistics pool that can reveal the real facts about the abortion count: numbers aborted due to rape, incest, life of mother, genital defect,or promiscuity? Being the unthinking, Cro-magnon male-type that I am, I'm willing to wager that promiscuity would tip the scales and render "choice" arguments as the deceptive crap that they really are. If rape, incest and life of the mother were the REAL issues, thinking Americans might have less of a problem supporting ethical medical decisions based on real situations instead of manufactured talking points based on deception. I understand and accept the theological positions against abortion, but I could also tolerate a segment of the population who didn't adhere to such tenets. But to champion "a woman's right to choose" from Roe who admitted she lied and made a complete reversal of her position exposes the movement's flawed, deceptive practices for what it really is: a lie perpetuated by even more lies.

adjutant
Congratulations! I wish you many happy years with your grandchild! I have 4 and love them all!
I love that ad on here with a girl wearing a t-shirt that says I survived roe vs. wade. What a HOOT!

Bashing of liberals is boring
Every time when I hear regular bashing of liberals or conservatives, coal in my basement start sprouting. It became so common and so annoying that even coal cannot stand it anymore.

So Mr. McCullough, please work a little harder and arrive with new lines.

On the abortion issue, if you are against it, do not do it. This issue is so deeply private that there is no way that an outside party can know and understand all the aspects of the individual’s decision in this matter. Consequently, we cannot judge or enforce choice of our conscience on other people’s decisions.

I have a theory why so many people write so much about abortion. About ten years ago, I wrote a column on this subject, please read: http://www.henrykkowalczyk.com/Activists_bedroom.htm

Henryk A. Kowalczyk
http://www.henrykkowalczyk.com

angelatc: Lily is WRONG!

"The fact is that women have always had abortions, and they will always have abortions."

Probably some truth to that. But there have always been people who have stolen, so does that mean we should accept the fact that some people will steal, and abolish the laws against theft?

"The only thing you're doing is taking away their right to proper medical care."

That's NOT proper medical care... It's MURDER!

Let's not get melodramatic! It's not fantasyland where every baby is worshipped like a God. It's simply that Conservatives want the rights of unborn innocent children protected.

No, we conservatives don't vilify the mothers who dared have sex, filling their world with hate!

Who knows where you got your information?



they received tax-payer funding
$350 million for Planned Parenthood from US taxpayers of whom near half disagree with the operation this organization conducts daily and more than half disagree with the Federal government continuing to expense funds like heroin addicts...it is an outrage.
It is one thing for a female to be allowed to kill her own child in her womb, but to force taxpayer funding of such? NO WAY! TRILLIONS in national debt and our "leaders" want to fund this crap?
Kill your baby; it's your sin and that of your co-conspirators, but don't ask for my money to fund your murder.
This outrage, along with all the other ignorant expenditures of the US government must be stopped NOW! Federal funding for PBS? Bullcaca! PBS stations "panhandle" enough to keep Big Bird on for the kiddies, and a once non-commercial enterprise can no longer make that claim even if the extent of the commercial advertising is merely recognition of "donated" funding played before an aired program! Public Radio...please, there are too many radio outlets as it is! NO Federal funding for "pets" and "pals", period.
WE, the people, MUST cry out LOUDLY for a Constitutional Amendment requiring a SURPLUS in EVERY Fiscal budget year the US Government operates, and that each annual surplus be commited to the repayment of the principal of the exisitng national debt and not to the interest thereon.

Why Education is better than laws
because we want to save young women from the horrible experience of paying a legally sanctioned medical "hitman" to snuff the infants growing their wombs, we want to get the truth out about what is really hiding inside her belly.

But I am glad that Lefties are failing to reproduce themselves.

But the Lefties don't just want to stop at abortion being "safe and legal" for themselves and their spawn.

They want to talk YOUR daughter into, first of all, behaving like an alley cat, and then killing her baby as well.

We must continue to make our voices heard by getting our messages back into the popular culture.

hak: You don't get it... No one cares!
.

The senile harridan Ginsburg
will not survive until 2012 due to retirement or death. A conservative judge will return the court back to the pre-Warren days when SCOTUS understood that Article III powers did not include Article II powers. Novemebr 08 will be a crucial election for both the WH and Senate composition (although some blue dog Democrats may cross the aisle for a conservative nominee).

Personal accountability is the answer to unwanted pregancy, not legalized murder. The criminal laws protect the unborn child against anyone other than the mother. How ironic!

Hak, with all due respect.
It would seem to me, although not as knowledgeable as some people in the field, that if we, the American taxpayer, are footing the bill, then we have a right to make our voices heard, pro or con in this matter. Liberals constantly spout off about freedom of choice, etc, etc, ad nauseam, but what about America's freedom of choice? Do we as a nation have a say in the matter? I personally don't want America to be perceived as one giant abattoir for babies, I happen to have produced a few in my lifetime.

Stop taxing me, then you can tell me to shut up. Until then, I will judge and speak my conscience.

ADJUTANT

.....I shared your experience last night ...

.....My 20 week pregnant daughter came by with her husband to show me the video of my grandaughter due in February ...

.....I watched a timy human being (estimated weight 7 oz) with clearly defined facial features, and limbs with perfectly formed fingers and toes and a beating heart moving about in her little world ...when the doctor probed my daughters stomache ...the baby reacted by flailing her arms and legs and trying to move away ...

.....Now tell me again Lilly and all you pro-choice killers that aborting this child would not be murder .....COLOSSUS

Hak-ak-ak: We don't care if the
Left want to keep from reproducing themselves.

As far as I am concerned the fewer Leftie Losers the better.

What fries me is the fact that these natural born losers don't keep their filthy noses out of the lives of young women who are NOT their children, convincing them to scr&w around and then destroy the "evidence."

These are the real sickies who can't allow sex to be a privat matter, but insist on foisting their twisted, abnormal views into the public arena.

Then these hypocrites have the gall to turn around and accuse us on interfering when we push back.

"This is private! This is private," they whine.

OH, REALLY?!!!

Why aren't you acting like it is private, then? Why are you Lefties insisting that your cr@p gets taught in school? Why are you insisting that we have to put up with blatant sexuality on the public airwaves?

And then you turn around and say that the product of all this public poking is private?!!!!!!!!!!!

Bull Cr@p!

MotleyCrue: Okay, that's enough!

You've given hak about all the respect he's due!

:-)



Radical naturalism is the enemy…

Planned Parenthood is one front in the cultural war. Thanks to Anne for bringing in its founder and her philosophy. Margaret Sanger was a darwinist. She believed the doctrine and openly and consistently promoted its applications. Nazi Germany was defeated, but the ideology that drove its policies is alive and well.

Someone says Christians should rise up and fight and they are right. But we cannot defeat this enemy by force. Christ has come and He rules the nations with the sword of His mouth. [Revelation 1:16; 19:11-15] The apostle explains…

‘For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh. For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ…’ [2 Corinthians 10:3-5]

As believers let us think and live under the authority of the revelation Christ has given us. As it is written let us stand up and confront vain philosophy that would exalt itself against the knowledge of God.


More about the Gollums of the Left
Every time I hear one of these Lefties whining about our response to their attempts to destroy our culture, I am reminded of Gollum, and also of Wormtongue.

They plot and scheme and do nasty, sneaky, deliberately evil things, and when we fight back they feign that they are really little whiny harmless balls of fluff, who never hurt a fly and are misunderstood and put upon.

So we show mercy on their worthless hides, and immediately they spring up to stab us in the back again.

I have no sympathy for some loser who whines, "privacy! I need privacy!!!!"

You are probably one of the same losers who defends that Hooters waitress has the right to sit on a plane in a dress so short we can see all the way up to the area that should be private.

Private?

You are probably a defender of nude beaches, Janet Jackson's flashed b00b, and all manner of other crass expressions of that which ought to be kept private.

Lousy hypocrites!!!

ValiantForTruth: Thanks.

And well said!

It seems too often that people don't really know the origins of some of these "groups" such as Planned Parenthood and the ACLU.

If they knew the "who" and the doctrine and philosophy behind some of these groups, people would have a better understanding of the goals.





Refuse to report statutory rape
Despite the sex ed romantic image of nubile teenagers lovingly discovering the magic of sexual union, the truth is most minor girls are induced into sexual activity by adult males. (In a recent college survey, the 2nd most popular reason for women having illicit sex is "pleasing their boyfriends.")

Statistics say most minor girls begin their "the wonders of sex" with, natch, some adult dude (agofconsent.com). Indiana and Kansas were (July, 2005) trying to prosecute some of these rapist under statutory laws, as they clearly injure the very young women they have intercourse with, but Planned Parenthood, which has names of fourteen year olds and younger who've had abortions, will not release names to judges, claiming confidentiality.

Here is another perfect example of liberals promoting precocious sex among persons defined as children, and then, instead of protecting them, defend the indefensible--prosecution of criminals--defying the law in order to keep the misery and illegality theirs "to fix."

MotleyCrue, as far as I am concerned
you can continue to speak your mind, even if public funds are not used to murder innocent babies.

Last time I looked, this was the United States of America, no matter how much the Left want to make this into the United States of Marxism and Hedonism.

But your point about public funding is right.

The hypocrites want public funding for their evil deeds but don't want public discussion.

Yes, the virulant Left are good at siphoning from the public trough, because they KNOW they can't get enough PRIVATE funding to pay for their evil schemes.

Liars for Jesus.
Ridiculous, as usual, Kevin. Isn't it funny how in Missouri, "pro-lifers" are demanding that all abortion clinics have six-foot-wide hallways and twelve-by-twelve-foot surgery rooms as a matter of "safety," but when Planned Parenthood starts building new clinics that meet all those rigorous standards, they turn around and call them "super-butcheries!"

If you don't want huge, new abortion clinics, don't fight for laws that require them.

EVIL TWINS

.....Planned Parenthood and the ACLU ...both financed and supported by charitable contributers (United Way etc.) and with Federal Tax dollars ...

.....The onerous 1964 Civil Rights Act allows the ACLU to use Federal tax dollars to defend plaintiffs whose "Civil Rights" have been violated all the way to the Supreme Court ...

.....The ACLU selects a John/Jane Doe to serve as plaintiff and then taps in the Federal Treasury to cover all legal and court costs which could run into the hundreds of thousands of dollars ...this is why most small municipalities just cave in to the ACLU demands because they cannot afford the legal costs ...

.....Planned Parenthood as a "non-profit" health provider gets Federal Tax Dollars because they provide counseling and distribute condoms and birth control devices ...what PP does is encourage sexual activity by making it appear safe because their cash cow is abortion and they know that the more sexual activity ...the more unwanted pregnacies ...the more abortions ...the more money ...statistics bear these facts out .....COLOSSUS

Trailer Park- Why don't you crawl back
into the slime pit from whence you came?

You are a hypocrite, a liar and an advocate of the slaughter of the innocents.

And then you turn around and besmirch the character of those who would defend the unborn?

What kind of slimy, weasly, good-for-nothing low-life are you exactly?

Renny
Under what circumstances is sex illicit?

God Bless America
Satan is at work here.

And a good morning to you, Anne.
It's only 8:15AM on the West Coast. Good point you make. The ACLU originally started out as the American Communist (legal?) Union, or some such name. They changed it, I believe, with the McCarthy hearings but never changed their goals. Mix the word liberty into the socialized slime of the melting pot and it comes out libertine, once again with all due respect to our liberal friends.

Agree
It pains me to agree with this guy. I read his blog just to point out all his stupid, obvious mistakes and his 100% endorsement of anything Bush says and does.

But, he's right on this one.

Of course, like all far right-ies, he miss the bigger point: abortion isn't the problem. Unwanted pregnancy is the problem.

Insurance companies will cover Viagra prescriptions, but not birth control pills.

Mountain Rose.
You're on the side of heaven when you're on the side of the unborn. I'm not much of a christian, if I am one at all, but I do remember something about, "And a little child shall lead them," and that sounds okay to me.

Got to go for a while. You and Anne keep up the good fight. Back later.

Hey Motley, How are you?

And, google Roger Baldwin to get a good idea of just what a Communist group the ACLU really is...


dbz77- when is sex illicit?
Renny seems to be saying that it is illicit when some preditory older guy seduces an under-aged girl, fathers her child and then drive her to a clinic to cover up his crime, and rip her child out of her womb.

But it is also illicit when you cheat on your spouse, when you schtupp before marriage, and when a guy plays hide-the-baguette with another guy, espeically in an airport washroom.

Of course, the Left has been pushing to make it "acceptable" to rut like swine.

And then turn around and whine about privacy.

How charming.

POTUS/ SCOTUS
For those who think that the Presidential election is a likely place to overturn Roe V Wade, I must disagree.

I am just as outraged as all of you about how our tax dollars are spent. And, I go on record here that overturning Roe v Wade would be a tremendous blessing to our nation.

But to vote for President only based on their stance on abortion is ill-advised.

The only thing that the President can do is use his 'bully pulpit' to push for reform, and, hopefully, appoint Constitutional Constructionists to the SCOTUS that will, perhaps, re-visit Roe v Wade and overturn it as federal law.

That will place the abortion question back onto the individual states, where it should have stayed in the first place. I don't think it will make it go away.

I think that the horse is already stolen, and as much as I wish otherwise, I don't see legalized abortion going away.

However, I think we need to demand fiscal accountability and find a way to stop federal funding for this immoral and horrible 'industry' perpetrated by PP. If we can Educate and do the 'slow bleed' of funding to PP that Congress threatens our troops with, perhaps PP will have to be accountable.

We need to elect more than just a pro-life President to achieve those goals.

Steve Michelson: like all far right-ies?

Really now??

"... abortion isn't the problem. Unwanted pregnancy is the problem."

Maybe you're partially right....

IF "unwanted pregnancy is the problem" then certainly "personal responsibility" or lack thereof, is also a problem.

BUT, make no mistake, abortion IS a big problem because it's MURDER!







Thanks Motley!
Later!

Kings and Queens of Denial
In a slightly related subject, when Michael Vick apologized for his dog fighting ring, he apologized for being "immature."

"Immature?"

Not BARBARIC? Not cruel? Not heartless? Not blood thirsty?

In the same way, the public has been seduced into a denial about what is happening to the unborn.

The Lefties have it easier because of the fact that unborn babies live in a place where they can't be seen.

This is exactly why we want girls to see an ultrasound of their babies before they "choose" to have them cruely torn apart limb from limb by Dr. Evil.

And this is why the abortion advocates want to suppress these images, so that girls will remain in a state of denial, and will continue to plunk down money for murder.

After all, Dr. Evil has another yaught payment coming up.

So, women have always had abortions.
Have they always had government funded abortions to the tune of more than 1 million a year?

Have groups claiming to be "not-for-profit" always made $60 million a year in profit, after receiving more than $360 million in tax dollars and deducting the cost of bribing Democrats to keep abortion legal with campaign contributions?

How many more abortions have occured because it is legal than would have occured if it wasn't (Hint: estimates should be given to the nearest ten million)?

How many more teenaged girls have become pregnant because they knew that they could always get an abortion if they needed one? How many of these girls have had serious psychological issues that have dogged them the rest of the lives after having their abortions? Why doesn't Planned Parenthood warn teenagers about this and help them cope with it if they are so concerned about the welfare of the unwed mom-to-be?

Legal or not, how can anyone justify abortion on moral/ethical grounds if he can't prove that an unborn fetus is not a human? And if you're thinking the justification is that the life being aborted is not one worth saving or living, who are you to judge that? And how is it different from murdering someone already born whose 'life is not worth living'? Or do you contend that it is only the law that should prevent self-appointed arbiters from committing genocide? You know, the way Hitler decided the Jews were a drag on German society so he made it the law they they should be killed.

You can see where this is leading.

THERE ARE NO UNWANTED BABIES!
Besides the fact that I don't when being unwanted is a capital offense, and besides the fact that these poor children don't get due process of law before they are executed for the "crime" of being "unwanted," there is another issue.

THERE ARE NO UNWANTED BABIES!

There are still large numbers of desperate barren women who are longing to adopt these children.

There is a long waiting line.

There is a black market for babies.

People go over-seas to find available babies.

Why there are even trashy, low-life girls who instigate bidding wars for the babies they put up for adoption.

So you want to do in your poor little baby, have a little compassion instead.

Give your baby the gift of life, and a loving couple the gift of a child.

Blackthorne et al: Roe Vs. Wade
Even if “Roe vs. Wade” is overturned for being “bad law,” the issue will be transferred to the individual state legislatures as per the US Constitution’s original framers, i.e., 13 different little experiments. Hence, if you’re rabidly Pro-life, you can live in the Dakotas. If you want to employ abortion out of convenience (IAW 96% of the 1.4M annual abortions performed per year) , and feel morally superior for doing so, go live in the People’s Republic of Massachusetts, i.e., a woman-child sleeps around, gets pregnant despite having access to dozen forms of birth control & uses abortion as retro-birth control. They can then wear a Ms. Magazine "I had an abortion" tee-shirt as though killing their child for convenience was some sort of sick feminist right of passage. You know the type.

Given their current inclination towards recreational sex, a general ambivalence toward consistently using 12 different, easily available brith control methods (vice two(2) for men) & the fact that 1.4M annual abortions performed (primarily for the convenience of the mothetr) represent 30% of all children conceived, I take a certain cynical view of the current popular PC myth WRT the inherent "moral superiority" of the female of the species, as well as the sacrosanct nature of "motherhood." You can't have it both ways, women-children.

Female-chauvinists lie & children die.

All
I can say about Roe Vs. Wade, is some people survived it, and now the same people want to use it as an excuse to kill unborn children. What if their mother had used it? Here is a novel ideal, don't get pregnant! I have a less of a problem preventing pregnancy, because unlike some I believe LIFE starts at conception!

Mountain Rose writes:
After all, Dr. Evil has another yaught payment coming up.

Hey! don't forget his new secret volcanic lair!

Save Babies To Make War
Yes, you unliberals should save these babies, raise them and then send them off to Iraq to be killed for your cowardly -----.

America, your children are ignorant. Look around at all of this trash. Blind patriotism, just another way to give yourself credit for something you have never earned. You are an American and so you are born with all of these inherent qualities. BS.

I want to know why those here who are able to enlist have not. The army has a hard time getting 7,000 NEW RECRUITS a year. They had to extend tours to 15 months to perpetrate the appearance of a surge - there is no limit to what that fraud "Commander In Chief" will do to save HIMSELF. And apparently there is no limit to how far you cowards will play along. You are disgraceful.


abortion clinics
are nothing more than american death camps. we should take the hildabeast. line her up against a wall and rip an arm off. then a leg and finally her head and see how she likes it

ink og neato
Who's your pharmacist?

Inkognito: Another Leftie HYPOCRITE
Oh sure!

AS IF you Lefties really care about the soldiers. All you care about is making America weak in every arena, so that your evil master, George Soros can take over and make a Socialist state, probably modeled after his friends, the Nazis.

All you hypocrites is bash the soldiers and make it seem horrible to be a soldier, work hard to keep recruiters off campus and then turn around and whine that people aren't signing up.

YOU ARE THE LOUSY STINKING HYPOCRITE, not us!

You are the lousy loser who crawled out of a slime pit, just to spew your slime all over decent, loving caring people who are trying to make the world a better place.

Teh Left has no answers. All they do is create more trouble.

ink og neato
don't change the subject you piece of crap. were talking about all the children "you" murder. bush is not always right but dems are never, never, never, never right. so bite me

and slummer
you and your goons can always be counted on spew your brainless, traitorous, minion of the devil left wing hate speech so bite me

ink og neato: Really?
"America, your children are ignorant. Look around at all of this trash. Blind patriotism, just another way to give yourself credit for something you have never earned. You are an American and so you are born with all of these inherent qualities. BS."

Really? That's why we have enlightened neo-Marxists such as you to show us the profound error of ways. This is of course standard Leftist group-think: their particular ideology apparently imbues them with an esoteric insight on all matters pertaining to the reality in general and the human condition in particular. If the rest of us were intelligent enough to appreciate the subtle beauty of social engineering (e.g., taxpayer-funded abortion on demand, gender/racial quotas, wealth-redistribution, etc.) we would of course be leftists as well. Hence, we are all bigots, racists, sexists, etc. You know the usual drivel…

slummer
"...foaming at the mouth"?

You must have seen me brushing my teeth.

At least my fangs are not dripping from the blood of innocent babies who have been forcefully ripped from their mothers' wombs by some heartless, soulless Dr. Evil, who lines up the pregnant moms like cows due for slaughter at the meat packing house.

Lilly, et all: Galling
It never ceases to amaze me about the moral compasses of certain people who actively lobby for subsidizing/enabling women-children (at taxpayers expense) to engage in recreational, consequence-free relations w/ men with whom they do not want to have children. Some how their lobbying efforts grant them some kind of morale “gravitas”- which is truly galling in its arrogance. The libertarian in me screams “Morality” shouldn’t be legislated, but “Amorality” shouldn’t be subsidized.

Sulmmer: "no message of any substance"?
I guess in your Bizarr-o World, the slaughter of the innocents is not an issue of substance?

I guess that in your upside-down universe, innocent babies deserve to be brutally ripped limb-from-limb in the very place that they should be safest, simply because they happen to have committed the unforgivable sin of being conceived when their $lu++y mother didn't plan it?

Surely somebody told these Alley Cats where babies come from?

Surely they must have realized that schtupping the first worthless joe that comes along can lead to conception?

But we are expected to feel sorry for these pigs, and have no sympathy for the blameless children that are the product of wanton rutting?

I don't think so.

mountain rose
you go girl.lol

mountain rose
you go girl.lol

gotta go watch peyton manning.
be back @ half time

Mountain Rose
Education and emotional support for young pregnant females are the near term tactics we have to lower the abortion rate. The govt is not doing it. It behooves the private sector to establish some kind of institution/program that does. Any suggestions?

she didn't get an abortion!
Now I didn’t count the comments on this site today, and of course I didn’t try to determine the sex of the commenter, but over the years I have noticed that the most intense, the most violent, the most screaming against abortion, come from men. Just listen to the people on TV and radio talk programs, men scream the loudest and the most, against abortion.

I long ago, came to the conclusion that they are sexist pigs, who are saying, “A man put that sperm there, and no mere woman is going to disturb the fetus.”

Of course that goes along with the idea that if men could get pregnant, and could have a baby, abortions would be available at every street corner.

No one has answered this question, “Are you one of those who watch TV news stories of starving babies and cheer, and say, "At least she didn't get an abortion!"

Abortion IS Murder
Hak wrote at 10:07...

"On the abortion issue, if you are against it, do not do it."

Allow me, please, Hak, to make a substitution.

"On the murder issue, if you are against it, do not do it."

(After reading hak's preposterous argument, I immediately jumped ahead to rebut without reading the ensuing comments. If others have already challenged hak, I apologize.)

adjutant
What a great read. It brought back memories of how I broke the news of my daughter to family and how my daughter broke the news of her first child to me. Thank you.

slummer
I posted a response to you on West's article from yesterday.

Careful, marc,
when you tell a liberal to bite you, especially if you are standing in a men's restroom at the time. They'd be only too happy.

Savage 99
Yes, there is a production company that is looking for funding for public service advertisements encouraging girls to give their babies the gift of life. I am searching around for the info, and if I find it, I will post it here later. Also, support the people from The Silent Scream. If you have access to a conservative club at a local campus, see if you can get the Silent Scream film shown there. Try to hook up pro-life speakers with High Schools and Colleges. And continue to fearlessly speak the truth.

jim
Don't know where you get your stats from. Every study I have seen says that men are the biggest supporters of abortion on demand.

Of course, there are a lot of screaming women who consider it their 'right' to 'control' their bodies.

I agree with the attitude if you believe in the right to Choose, then there are a lot of choices out there to PREVENT an unwanted pregnancy. That is the CHOICE.

After conception, the woman has given up her right to Choose, and Control her body, because then she has another life inside her, and the father should have some say-so in the life of his child as well.

Abortion is not a "choice" it is denying a human being LIFE, thereby denying them a choice. It denies a father a child. It denies the concept of personal responsibility. It gives extraordinary 'rights' to a woman over the lives of everyone affected by her decision to abort the child she's carrying.

As bad as it sounds...

I don't really care, except...

Why am I forced to pay for abortions?

Why are most abortion clinics in or near populations of Black folks?

It sure sounds like the so called "Liberal Democrats" have a secret agenda when it comes to the poorest, and peoples of color.

Liberals are Bigots!

Lily writes
"People in the United States have a right to obtain legal medical services in their own community."

Only a sick, twisted, morally confused and dangerously deranged individual could justify the murder of the unborn as a legal medical service.

I have come to the conclusion with a fellow poster that we can only stop this insanity through force. Influencing our elected officials will accomplish nothing. What will stop the murder is when the masses unite and execute the abortionists without the luxury of a trial. I can only hope that 10,000 people march into that facility and murder every individual that happens to be in there. Treat them with no more respect than would have been given to Nazi SS. The resulting panic would shut down every abortion clinic in a hour.

A jury has to convict them do they not? I don't believe any court in America could find such a jury.

Lily writes"
"People in the United States have a right to obtain legal medical services in their own community."

Only a sick, twisted, morally confused and dangerously deranged individual could justify the murder of the unborn as a legal medical service.

I have come to the conclusion with a fellow poster that we can only stop this insanity through force. Influencing our elected officials will accomplish nothing. What will stop the murder is when the masses unite and execute the abortionists without the luxury of a trial. I can only hope that 10,000 people march into that facility and murder every individual that happens to be in there. Treat them with no more respect than would have been given to Nazi SS. The resulting panic would shut down every abortion clinic in a hour.

A jury has to convict them do they not? I don't believe any court in America could find such a jury.

wayward1


You are clearly as dangerous as the abortionist. You are no more entitled to say who should live and who should die than that Planned Parenthood organization should be. I am ardently pro-life and as such, if I were on that jury, I would vote to convict.

wayward1
You are clearly as dangerous as the abortionist. You are no more entitled to say who should live and who should die than that Planned Parenthood organization should be. I am ardently pro-life and as such, if I were on that jury, I would vote to convict.

wayward1
Get a grip! There is no excuse for the post you made. You can feel all sorts of righteous indignation and frustration at the pointless murder of unborn children, but to advocate wholesale murder (I think what you advocate is rightly termed Terrorism) is just wrong.

Jesus said, "By their fruits you shall know them."

Please take a reality check, and re-think what you just spouted.

For jim and Mrs.Paddy
Statistics show that the single demographic group that most supports abortion on demand are men between the ages of 18-34, also known as the sexual prime for males.

But I want to thank jim anyway. No debate on TH between libs and cons is complete until some lib contructs a straw man like "...if men could get pregnant..."

I'll tell you what jim. You go find some fantasy website in your fantasy world where men are all pigs that can get pregnant and we adults will continue to have an adult discussion here.

Touj
Why do you think one post (or even 2) is representative of all "Christians?"

That is just silly!

Do you realize how much you sound like Robbie on Lost in Space? "Danger, Danger, Will Robinson, the Christians are coming."

Maybe I should just copy your post about how 'dangerous' Christians are and say that all liberals are gripped by unbridled fear.

God said it, I believe it, and that's it
mrs Paddy writes: Sunday, September, 16, 2007 1:10 PM

Abortion is not a "choice" it is denying a human being LIFE, thereby denying them a choice.
-------
That is not true, there is no human being until the breath of life. God said it, I believe it, and that’s it!!

Next thing you will want me to believe that if I throw a ball in the air, the ball decided when to fall to the ground. No, natural gravity works on the ball, natural birth works on a fetus, that is not the choice of a fetus, that is nature.

I know this is a ridiculous comment, but the lady's fingernails are growing, and she can cut them, and no one complains. Yes I already said this said was ridiculous, just like the hay baler didn’t commit murder or abortion when it cut off the tip of my finger.

And still, No one has answered this question, “Are you one of those who watch TV news stories of starving babies and cheer, and say, At least she didn't get an abortion!"

What do you think, and what do you do when you see those pictures? And what ways can you/she prevent those starving, mistreated babies being born? (No, by now they are a baby, not a fetus.

She could abstain, use contraception, or have an abortion. Which is the most possible, or most expected, not only in Africa, but in Numb York City, Left Angeles, or anywhere else in the world. Certainly not the first option.

wayward1

You're sounding like a Liberal-progressive. Please take a deep breath and repeat.. "Thou shall not kill".

Remember, it is the Liberal-progressives who wish to "slaughter", and they utilize "judges" to authorize this. We fight by electing those who appoint new judges.

It'll work, just takes time. Use the facts to change minds, not violent talk.

Best wishes.

Touj
I only speak for myself. I have no answer why others do not speak out. BTW You'll notice from my last post that I try to be even-handed as you caught some of the flak there too. :-)

wiseone is an antonym
wiseone writes: Sunday, September, 16, 2007 1:52 PM

wiseone is an antonym for who ever is hiding behind a name that is a lie.

I have been a conservative since long before you were born. Why do you think that everyone of any political stripe, all think exactly the same about everything?

jim
I think you are splitting hairs a bit.

Recently, there was a 21-week child born that survived. It is the youngest preemie to survive that has been recorded.

In most circles, this child would just be considered a fetus.

My question to you is, when does life begin?

Whatever the woman is carrying, it will certainly not be a kitten or a puppy.

If viability is a factor, do we base our arbitrary line at 21 weeks now, since it has been demonstrated that this can be a child that can survive?

If you read the Bible, you will recall that the child lept in Elizabeth's womb (she was carrying John the Baptist) when she met Mary. So, how do you square that with your statement about the breath of life?

Ethics
To engage in modern ethics is to engage technology. Abortion as we know it today is the product of science and technology. To make ethical arguments about the use of technology mandates an understanding of technology. So many liberals are against Nuclear Power plants who haven't the foggies clue how such a plant works, the advances made since 3 mile island, or the actual risks involved.

That's how you all sound. Like a bunch of liberals ignorantly protesting power plants.

What's the truth?

1.) Science has shown that over 50% of all conceptions abort in the first two weeks. If you believe that life begins at conception then you just made God into the biggest abortionist of them all. Now, if you believe that God's will is the only will that matters during conception, then you are not ethically better than the Indiana couple who let their sick child die rather than seek medical treatment. After all, it was God's will. If you believe that life begin's at conception and your are promoting, sponsoring and paying for research to insure that 100% of all conceptions result in births, then you are ethically on no better ground than the Indiana couple.

2.) The morning after pill. If you believe that life begins at conception then you should most definitely be against the morning after pill as it induces the chemical reaction to insure that the egg doesn't stick. Which puts conservatives in the position of defending not a fetus with arms, but an egg-and-a-sperm that have had exactly 1 day to be together.

The conclusion is simply. Given what we know about conception failing over 50% of the time, conservatives calling liberals baby killers are doing so to be self-righteous and not because of their ethics and morality of life. There is no interest in saving those 50% of conceptions that don't stick because they don't really believe what they are saying.


Mountain Rose
O course, go to the schools. There have got to be films like the one Adjutant(memory) mentioned with pictures of babies in the womb. If there is any kind of sex education program in any school, a film like that certainly should be part of it, and having it included, even against the wishes of the abortioners, would seem to be a good chance. I'm on the board of a Charter School and i haven't even seen the films being shown. This will change soonest.

Aurora
The city of Aurora seems to have acted wisely here. The lawsuit they filed appears to be frivolous. That planned parenthood was opening a clinic was front page news in the area long before they supposedly snuck in their facility. They showed the city blueprints for an abortion clinic (notably because unlike most medical facilities it needs bulletproof glass to protect it from people who love life). And the cities explanation for why it did not realize that this was the planned facility is that the way things were filed was so routine it did not stand out.

But by filing the suit, they get the family planning services for the poor that the city needs, and they get to distance themselves from the source of protest. So they get the best of both worlds. They get services, and they get to step away from the contraversy that the services provide.

Ethics
There are two separate ethical arguments regarding abortion.

1.) Life begins at conception and abortion is murder.

2.) The decision about when life begins is a personal choice and not a publicly enforceable one.

Every liberal, 100%, will argue that if you do not believe in abortion, that if you believe abortion is murder, than don't have one.

What that says is the argument to be made is not that abortion is murder, but rather the choice morality transcends a personal decisions.

Here's a poll question for you:

Do you believe that the question of when life begins is a religious decision? If so, do you believe that decision is protected by Freedom of Speech?

Everyday, hundreds of people are faced with the personal decision, the personal moral choice as to whether to take someone, a loved one, off life-support.

Why is it that this ethical decision to pull life-support is moral at the personal level and yet the decision to abort life is a matter of public regulation?

Say what you will about the Catholic Church, at least they are constitent with their view. It was interesting during the Terry Schiavo case that Tom Delay was against pulling her plug when he agreed to do the same exact thing for his father.

And I think Tom Delay's predicament depicts the pro-life predicament. The pro-life people have never tried to argue the ethics of personal vs. public choice. Where are the ethical lines about when religious personal convictions are the moral deciding principles and when are those lines crossed where the public gets to mandate?

I would argue that the conservatives never make such ethical arguments about public vs. private moral boundaries because they are not really interested in making abortion illegal. What they are really interested in is being self-righetous, pompous, and sanctimonious and calling liberals baby-killers.







wayward1 writes:
"I have come to the conclusion with a fellow poster that we can only stop this insanity through force."
___________________________________________________

I notice immediately how his words are greeted with horror. Liberals throw up their hands, bewailing the savages on the right who would propose such a thing. Why, the very idea of killing abortionists is vile, demented, and so on and so forth, ad nauseam.

Yet the violence against the unborn in America's death abattoirs is unceasing and unparalleled in the history of man, Hitler and Stalin notwithstanding.

Hitler made no bones about his "final solution."
It wasn't about money, it was about getting rid of the unwanted in his glorious dream of an Aryan Third Reich.

What glorious dream do liberal left-wingers have, to explain away the murder of millions of unwanted babies? If it isn't money, then by all means please enlighten me.

ink og neato: Ummm? Aren't you the

"ingocnito" etc., etc., etc. who has been banned for life....?

Sure sounds like the same ranting and raving....



K McH bleats, TH posters tweet
You're all too funny. But you still might try looking to China as another example of why the government needs to keep its nose out of reproductive rights.

Because that nose, like all things governmental, can sniff both ways.

Telling
Finally, I think in the ethics department that the only "morning after pill" is the one that aborts and doesn't sustain.

It's been known a long time over 50% of conceptions get flushed down the toilet. Yet no effort, none, zippo, nada, has been made to make a morning after pill to encourage the egg to stick. Oh, I take that back. There are fertility drugs one can take but they are not designed for the average person, they are designed for people who have problems conceiving at all.

We see no great scientific money being spent on a morning after pill for all women to take immediately after sex? Why not?

Is it perchance, because in reality no one really cares whether 100% of all conceptions stick?




re; Touj writes:
I think the correct phrase is "playing God." God says, so many times in the Bible, that he is Jealous of those who try to take his role.

I grew up in a humble setting. One of the lessons instilled by our minister was that one smell test of whether a Christian was acting primarily in their interest or in Christ's interest is to look for humility. No humility then they are most likely acting for their own interest. There is little to no humility here or on Town Hall in general. This is not a Christian place.

Ultimately, God tells us that some more dilemma can only be resolved by him and final judgement is his alone. I readily admit there are moral situations I am unable to judge and pray. Yet some Christian's like to pretend there are no moral dilemmas and they can discern right-from-wrong on everything, playing God.



privacy issue
It astounds me that many feel it is okay to jail a parent who smacks an unruly child on the bottom to get its attention while ignoring the heinous crime of ripping apart an unborn infant because it is an inconvenience.

If we are so concerned with privacy then let parents rear their children, use or abuse their animals and spouses as they wish.

In reality, we are all part of society and even private decisions and actions have public consequences. The privacy issue is fallacious when an entire generation of children has been attacked while in what should be the safest place on earth.

For jim
"Why do you think that everyone of any political stripe, all think exactly the same about everything?"

True conservatives do not agree with the ruling in Roe vs. Wade. To agree that the SCOTUS was ever envisioned to create a "right to privacy" out of the language of the Constitution pertaining to unreasonable searches and seizures is a liberal concept. To agree that this contrived "right to privacy" must be extended to exempt abortion from state regulation is even more liberal.

You have shown you are liberal on this particular issue, regardless of whatever issues on which you are conservative.

So my assertion stands. On this issue you are a liberal who has contructed a straw man because you cannot win the argument on reality.

You still have not furnished proof that a fetus is not a human (your "belie[f]" that God said it is not proof any more than any Catholic's belief that God said life begins at conception is proof). An aborted child will be just as dead regardless of your "belie[f]".

BTW - many words are "antonym[s]". Of course "wiseone" is one. It is the antonym of "foolish one". So what?

You have just attempted to refute a charge that you have constructed a straw man by constructing another straw man. You are the fool here. Do yourself a favor and go find your fantasy website in your fantasy world where men are pigs that get pregnant and anyone who disagrees with you is an "antonym".

drivebyposting writes:
"I would argue that the conservatives never make such ethical arguments about public vs. private moral boundaries because they are not really interested in making abortion illegal. What they are really interested in is being self-righetous, pompous, and sanctimonious and calling liberals baby-killers."
___________________________________________________

The Terry Schiavo case was argued on the basis of "She would have wanted to live," from her family's POV, and the opposite from the husband's POV. The husband won in court. From what I understand, Tom Delay's father wanted off life support. Delay acceded to his father's wishes. Both of those cases were decided as a matter of personal choice.

Tell me, oh enlightened one, what choice does an unborn child have? And, please, don't even suggest they would choose death over life.



Abortion a hanging offense----
In the past, we here in Texas had a long tradition of hanging murderers from tall trees. I see no reason why everyone associated with Planned Parenthood should not suffer the same fate today. A child does not evolve from being a "thing" to becoming a child by some hocus pocus magic. If it is a child when it is born, it had to be a child at conception. These people are murdering the most innocent human beings on earth and getting away with it as far as the courts of corrupt mankind are concerned. But God's court is far different. It cannot be swayed by the lies of liberal mass murderers. God sees abortion for what it really is and will stuff those incredibly wicked abortionists and their evil supporters into the very depths of the worst part of hell, and that without the slightest exception. Meanwhile, we must do whatever we can to stop the slaughter of the innocent little lambs. I suspect that we are enmeshed in the Iraq war mess and terrorism generally largely because God has given our nation over to great tribulation on behalf of justice for 45 million slaughtered infants. We can be absolutely certain that when abortion ends, the war with terrorism will come to a swift conclusion worldwide.

i agree with doc
I agree with doc that conception determines when life begins, thus all arguments that center around how far the fetus has developed are speculative and fallacious. Concerning HAK's assertion that abortion decisions are ''deeply private'', so what? I'm sure suicide is equally ''deeply private'' but it's still illegal and reprehensible. I believe that if a woman's life is in jeopardy, abortion is justified; anything else is pure murder.


touj.
--snooze--

touj
I think you need to rent "The Island of Doctor Moreau."

Thank you Savage 99
I will make a more concerted effort to find the pro-life production company I mentioned and hook you up with them.

jim
I answered your question a long time ago. Quit asking it. Your only analyzing one part of the equation. You seem to forgot about the charity part in answer to starving people.

If your solution to starvation is abortion then it's a non-starter especially since it never worked for Russia or China.

right to define my political stance?
wiseone writes: Sunday, September, 16, 2007 3:09 PM
For jim
"Why do you think that everyone of any political stripe, all think exactly the same about everything?"

True conservatives do not agree with the ruling in Roe vs. Wade.
-----
What gives you the right to define my political stance? What gives you the right to use the word “true”?
---
You say, On this issue you are a liberal who has constructed a straw man

Only you in your disturbed mind, could I be described as a liberal. And your idea of a straw man is stupid. It has often been said, that if men could get pregnant, abortions would be available everywhere.

drivebyposting
Your equating God to being an abortionist. another straw man argument since God layed out very specific rules one of which YOU don't get to play God.

Secondly as to the morning after pill an IUD does the exact same thing with less side effects. Many pro-choice people use the line of "health of the woman" well women are dying from this pill, and we don't even know yet what the long term effects of the chemical are. If you truly cared about the health of a woman you would become a little more informed about all methods of birth control.

“heads” he gets an anesthetic,
mrs Paddy writes: Sunday, September, 16, 2007 2:12 PM

that the child lept in Elizabeth's womb (she was carrying John the Baptist)
---

Well, if we are going to say there is a baby about to be born each and every time my stomach growls, and quivers, we have a completely different story.

Of course the movement of a fetus is very different from the movement of my stomach, but don’t try to say movement in the mid section means life.

Please understand, I am absolutely against an abortion, unless the alternative is worse. Every day you make decisions based on what alternative is available. In a restaurant you order the steak instead of the chicken, you park in this spot instead of that one, and I will always be in favor of an abortion rather than having starving, abused babies, anywhere in the world.

I usually bring this up, and never get a comment, so here it is again: Why are all of you only commenting on the pregnant lady? What about the idiot who is responsible for the implantation of the sperm.

I suggest that an abortion can be requested only by a female who is pregnant, and who then provides the name and location for the male responsible. Along with the abortion, if requested by the lady, there will also be either a castration or what ever you call that other operation. Prior to the operation a short ceremony will determine that “heads” he gets an anesthetic, “tails” he doesn’t.

And how about the ladies tubes? That would eliminate the second abortion.

FOUND IT: Vitae Caring Foundation
Hi Savage 99 and everyone who is interested in helping save lives of innocent children.

The name of the company is Vitae Caring Foundation, and here is their URL:
http://www.vitaecaringfoundation.com/

I see from their website that Pat Boone is involved in helping to promote their company.

Please check them out. I know their heart is toward gentle persuasion, unlike me!!!

Again I say, I am absolutely against
Lolo2 writes: Sunday, September, 16, 2007 3:44 PM
jim
I answered your question a long time ago. … … You seem to forgot about the charity part in answer to starving people.

If your solution to starvation is abortion
-------

Yes I know you answered lolo, but I am wanting to give others at least a chance to read, if not consider the problem in real life.

There are extremists who love to see a starving baby just because that proves the mother did not have an abortion. That’s their single issue goal, above and beyond all other considerations.

Charity has never solved the problem, and most likely won’t, as long as unbridled sex is the way of life for billions of people.

Again I say, I am absolutely against an abortion, unless the alternative is worse.

jim
Your alternative has been tried. Remember Mao?

slummer
Creating life outside of the womb is another thing that has gone way too far. We are such a nation of extremes. Did you miss on the news where now they are combining human and animal egg and sperm and creating an 'it'? TOO FAR!!!!

Again rule #1 no one gets to play God.

There are just as many lessons to learn in life from failure as success.

Jim writes:
"I usually bring this up, and never get a comment, so here it is again: Why are all of you only commenting on the pregnant lady? What about the idiot who is responsible for the implantation of the sperm."
_____________________________________________________

You are missing the point of the debate, Jim. This is not about the pregnant girl or the male responsible for it. This about the factories that are set up with taxpayers money for the sole purpose of aborting babies. They're a business, no morality involved. To them it's like butchering hogs. Got it?

Moutain Rose
I do get torn on the gentle persuasion I must admit. Because here in liberal land they just censor gentle persuasion so you can't do any persuading.

saved a beautiful baby from starving
Lolo2 writes: Sunday, September, 16, 2007 4:09 PM
jim
Your alternative has been tried. Remember Mao?
======

Lolo, I didn’t say it would solve all the problems in all the world, but in each particular case, the abortion often saved a beautiful baby from starving and being abused.

There were still starving babies, but I still prefer an abortion to a starving baby, and can’t for the life of me determine how others can say that starving is better.

If your charity can solve the problem before the baby is abused or hungry, I will agree with you, but even if you save the cost of an abortion, that would not feed a baby very long.

Greetings, Lolo2.
I'm glad to see you're here to carry on the fight. Educating people who refuse to be educated is a b!tch, isn't it. But we try.

jim
BTW...what extremists want to see starving babies because they didn't get an abortion? Never have seen or heard that ever. Furthermore it is still punishing the innocent for the irresponsible in society. Let's just punish the irresponsible.

As to the male equation of your question, I do see your point. We could do more and should do more about that especially with the advent of DNA. I will tell you though that women hold the cards since God made it so that women get pregnant. As I tell my daughter you are the one who will be pregnant, so you are the one holding the cards, so you need to be the one exercising the most responsibility. It isn't that I am giving men a free pass, but I am saying is biology is biology and I didn't create it. Women do have to work with what is in front of them. they can start by demanding the most from men.

Motley Crue
Isn't that the truth. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink.

Well, I hear the sound of merriment.
Looks like family is arriving. For all you libs out there, the "family" I refer to is a group of people united by blood and marriage. There are generally children involved, more than likely arriving through the process of consummation and birth. Write this down, folks on the left. It's important to understand the conservative mindset that thinks the greatest gift in the world, whether through God or evolution, is the ability to unite through the birth of children. You should try it sometime.

I have to laugh
My father is absolutely against abortion. However he is so fed up that even he said he might be willing to compromise if we could just go back to the original Roe vs.Wade and let God judge those who do wrong.But since we are a nation of extremes we now have partial birth abortion in the equation or debate. So he rapidly getting back to no abortion because of how far over board society goes.

My mother admits to being torn on the issue but says abortion would be obsolete if women would wise up and stop falling for the song and dance men give in the pursuit of sex. In her view women aren't raising their daughters right.

This is a prime example of how many different angles there is to this issue. We keep moving our morality lines.

I told my daughter that men will say or do just about anything for sex. I told her a whole lot of other things as well but I get booted for posting that! LOL!

jim
Sorry jim but I just don't agree and I am not sure God would either. The fact of the matter is it still has shades of Mao to me. There are lessons to be learned about those starving babies and better way to save them is to be a better person and a better Christian. If everything in life were perfect, if everything was all good and no bad, what would there be to learn.

Like I said there is much to learn from failure as success.

With your kind permission, I will
take my leave. The family has arrived, and all is well in my corner of the world. The patio tables are laden with goodies. Red wine breathes in wide-mouthed decanters, white wine is chilling on ice, boats rock gently beneath us while further out sails billow in an increasing breeze. We adults will sit outside, sipping wine and conversing, protected from the sun by green table umbrellas while Steve Tyrell sings "I've got the world on a string" and tots shriek and chase each other, just for the sheer joy of being alive--something those aborted babies will never get the chance to do.

On that note I will take my leave.


she raised her daughter perfectly!!
Lolo2 writes: Sunday, September, 16, 2007 4:40 PM
I have to laugh
My father is absolutely against abortion.
My mother … … In her view women aren't raising their daughters right.
----
But I bet she believes she raised her daughter perfectly!!

I told my Granddaughter that her mother learned everything about raising a teenager from me, I did it and it turned out perfectly, so listen to her!
------
lolo said, I told my daughter that men will say or do just about anything for sex.

You should have said, “some men.”

=======
Lolo2 writes: Sunday, September, 16, 2007 4:29 PM
jim
BTW...what extremists want to see starving babies because they didn't get an abortion?
----
I wish I had written down the name, but I actually did hear an anti-abortion fanatic say that on TV last year. He actually believed that a starving baby was better off than an aborted fetus, really. Don’t have an idea who or when or where.
=====
punishing the innocent for the irresponsible in society.

I can find no definition of the word Punish, that would fit that case. The mother can still have a beautiful baby when she is able to physically, socially, and financially support the baby. Wouldn’t you like that better?

Jim- Just wanted to point out
that since abortion was made "safe and legal," not only did the the number of pregnancies per capita went up, the number of LIVE BIRTHS also went up.

We were so careful to remove the stigma of being an unwed mother, that now they have nothing holding them back.

jim
Only some men? Most men. It is safer for women to presume that. Your talking about a perfect world and the pursuit of that world is not abortion. You seem to forget all the good that comes or is created in response to the bad.

Forming your opinion in response to one fanatic is just well...silly. It is an overaction to overreaction.

jim
Also too much govt., taxes, laws etc. is punishing the innocent.

jim
Another also. Aboting and killing a baby is punishing the innocent for the sins of the father and mother.

skinnywhiteboy
You really think that is the only solution? Legalized abortion or coat hangers?

Ridiculous.

Mountain Rose
I pointed out that stigma once before and everyone went off the cliff.

jim
I certainly hope your crack about my mother was only a joke.

jim
Okay I re-read your post again and can see that it was only a joke.

BTW there is a large percentage of women who can't have children after abortions and are scarred for life.

An Ideology of death!
__ Until we start addressing the facts of this issue, our society will continue to be divided. That fact is, there are those among us who secure power and possession, according to individual passion. In this article we had an individual group, Planned Parents, securing a position according to their passion. Many of us passionately hold, indiscriminant abortion is murder. Many of us are secure in our position that, indiscriminant abortion is murder. A position from which we prosper, but a prosperity we gain in the future. On the other hand, Planned Parenthood, and their compadres, are of immediate prosperity, and the prosperity of their ilk in the future. We can argue among ourselves till we are blue in the face, but it is not going to change the minds of the dieing. We need to do all we can, to prevent this ideology of death, from securing power. Securing power, and teaching their ideology to our youth. As death is their prosperity, life is ours.

Starve a baby or abort it?
That is as foolish as suggesting that the only alternative a battered wife has is to die?

One of the things we can thank the Left for is their efforts against the practice of taking babies away from unfit mothers.

Until the mid-Twentieth Century, if a mother had too many children, and couldn't care for them, some or all of the children were taken away and adopted out to loving homes.

Sexual life of abortion opponents
This morning I placed a comment containing a link to my text about sexual life of anti-abortion activists. This text is not available for regular visitors to my website. One needs to follow the link as follows: http://www.henrykkowalczyk.com/Activists_bedroom.htm . Thanks to this feature, I know that today exactly 12 people reading this discussion board checked out my text.

No one commented on it. It must be painful.

Henryk A. Kowalczyk
http://www.henrykkowalczyk.com


More for jim
If you keep building straw man you're going to have to change your handle to "Scarecrow".

Making abortion legal hasn't done anything to make the "...the idiot who is responsible for the implantation of the sperm..." any more responsible. If anything it has made more sex partners of both genders more irresponsible. Can you say "straw man"?

You are a liberal on this issue. It practically screams off the page when you post.

For your next straw man you bring up the ridiculous notion that instead of proving a fetus isn't a human to justify abortion, everyone who opposes abortion has to prove to jim that the baby will be supported in a manner jim approves of before birth is allowed.

Margeret Sanger would be so proud of you. How nice of you to pick up her mantle of playing God now that she is no longer with us.

As I said before, not you, not me, not any human can be sure we haven't killed more than 40 million people via abortion since Roe Vs Wade was decided in 1973.

Until you can provide that proof you risk promoting genocide of defenseless innocents for the convenience of the living. Morally and ethically this is conduct on a par with Stalin and Mao. Genocidal communists are the company you keep.

Sleep well.

BTW - Stalin and Mao were leftists. That means they were liberals, you who claim to have been a conservative for more than 5 decades.

hak: an Ad Homimum attack if I ever
saw one.

If you can't measure up to your opponent intellectually, simply attack his character.

A typical Leftie move.

*YAWN*

hak
I'll comment. Although well written Solomon you are not. It is full of fallacies and it is smug. Right off of the top many, many Christians are doing alot to help people with unwanted pregnancies. Secondly in this day in age there is absolutely alot of irresponsibility in regards to abortion, hence the reason you see the battles over teens being allowed abortions without parental permission. You also seem to negate the enormous amount of birth control out there.

Last, you fail to connect what a person's sex life has to do with their pov at all.

wiseone
I can attest to the fact that jim is really conservative and liberal on just this issue.

wiseone
Please read hak link. I would absolutely love to see what you will do with that one.

hak: You are, as ususal, so far off base

it's incomprehensible!!!

Who cares? It has nothing to do with the column.

This column is about Planned Parenthood and abortions... ie: the murder of innocent children!

What a demented, maniacal, lunatic you are!




Lilly - Legality vs Right
lilly writes: Sunday, September, 16, 2007 8:23 AM
What An Appalling Article
"Super-butchery?"
"Lunchmeat?"

"The facts are that Planned Parenthood wants to establish a clinic in Aurora, Illinois, a suburb of Chicago. This clinic would supply many women's health services as well as abortion, which, by the way, happens to be legal in the United States."

Lilly - Slavery was also legal in many states in 1840. Does that mean the laws were right at that time? I suspect that history will judge us less for our sensitivity to pregnant women and male predators than for our uncaring behavior toward the unborn.

What I find appalling is the indifference by many to the evil that Planned Parenthood performs in the name of women's healthcare.

Self called — wiseone

writes: Sunday, September, 16, 2007 6:05 PM
As I said before, not you, not me, not any human can be sure we haven't killed … … Until you can provide that proof you risk promoting genocide … …
===
And you must provide proof to me that a starving baby is much better off than an aborted fetus.

As you said, “not any human can be sure” and that must include everyone who is not a wiseone, right?

OR
hak

the BULL ain't worth talking about

Conservatives or Liberals agree or disag
Lolo2 writes: Sunday, September, 16, 2007 5:32 PM
jim
I certainly hope your crack about my mother was only a joke.
---
When I said, “But I bet she believes she raised her daughter perfectly!!” at 4:56 PM, that was not meant as a “crack” or a joke, it was meant as a compliment to both of you.
=======

Wouldn’t it be nice and a lot of fun if sometime someone would write a column for TH that would result in comments that were fun, showed humor, resulted in jokes etc. It’s always something that results in name calling, screaming, claiming this and that, but never anything that might be interesting and fun. As it is, I’ll bet no one has changed their mind on abortion regardless of all the snotty comments on this site today.

But I continue. No one has picked up on my use of the word “alternatives” when I say I am against all abortions unless the alternative is worse.

A thousand times a day, somewhere in the world, the doctor says we must let the fetus die to save the mother, or we must let the mother die to save the fetus. I don’t care if it is a single female, a wife, or a mother of any number of children, if any man says save the fetus and let the mother die, I say there is no need for a trial before he is executed 10 minutes later.

As I told the doctor before my daughter was born, “I know child bearing has its expected problems, but until my Beautiful Wife is as safe as she can be during childbirth, there is no baby.” The Dr. said, “That’s what I like to hear.”

======

Conservatives or Liberals agree or disag


Lolo2 writes: Sunday, September, 16, 2007 6:15 PM
wiseone
I can attest to the fact that jim is really conservative and liberal on just this issue.
---
Thank you Missie, but I still disagree on the label liberal. Just because Conservatives or Liberals agree or disagree on a subject like abortion, does not make the subject either one or the other.

If Conservative or Liberal is used in the usual political sense, the amount of government involvement, that means that the lack of Government involvement in a ladies life, means that abortion is in fact a conservative idea.

Screwed up sexual life
Within last hour 8 more people were curios to find out how their screwed up sexual life made them anti-abortion activists.

Keep working, please check out if it applies to you or someone you know: http://www.henrykkowalczyk.com/Activists_bedroom.htm

Henryk A. Kowalczyk
http://www.henrykkowalczyk.com

Uh, Hak
probably the reason nobody's commented on the article is because the focus of it is ridiculous on its face. Some people really do have the courage of their convictions to go out there and face ridicule for the sake of their views, regardless of which side of an issue they're on.

I can't recall the name of the poll that found conservative Christians to have the most satisfying sex lives but still, what does that have to do with anything either way? And how would you know anything about the sex lives of others-you're not God, obviously, and if you are peeking into our bedroom you'd better understand that we are a second amendment home and will deal with peepers accordingly...

Huge numbers of early pregnancies
end in spontaneous abortion or miscarriage becauSe 1) the implantation in the womb is faulty
2) the embryo or fetus is malformed
3) the mother's hormones are unbalanced and won't support the new life (thyroid and adrenal problems are sources of chronic miscarriage)
4) mother's nutrition or alcohol/drug consumption disrupts the development of the fetus

The number of spontaneious abortions is anywhere from 10% to 25%--not 50%--but the fact is no one knows because countless miscarriages are never recognized.

Considering literally billions of cells and processes have to work exactly perfectly for a "normal" birth, nature faces many possible problems for the baby to develop.

I think it's some kind of inversion that lefty abortion supporter who don't believe anything lives in the womb are so anxious to try to beat up religious people with the whacko idea that God is an abortionist because miscarriages occur. They never get tired of trying out the guilt card.

Aboriton should remain legal, but the US pop. conceives approx. 2.5 million pregnancies a year; half belong to teenagers and unmarried women and end up as abortions. Since 1972, if there were an even million abortions a year (and it's not that simple), there have been 37,000,000 possibly Am. citizens killed. Now, that's an unconscionable number.


the stats
Actual partial #'s for 2005: 1/2 of sexually active teen (12-19) females become pregnant by 19, they comprise 1/2 of all US births, and 1/2 have abortions. (434,000 out of 1.1 million). National Review Online states the CDC is empowered to record abortion statistics by years but is often not current. Why not? Also, the CDC does not record abortion disasters or deaths. Why doesn't Congress require such minimal reporting on such an important and controversial subject?
My guess is liberals who want all abortions in all instances all the time for all don't want to face the unfortunate numbers of people for whom nicked blood vessels and ruptured bladders would pall the romantic embrace of a truly dirty act.

Isn't birth control legal?

Touj
That a stupid, stupid, stupid thing to say, then you have to add the snarky name calling.

Life outside of the womb doesn't happen whether we like it or not. Yeah those things that make life just suddenly jump into as petri dish and create life all on their own. Right. Same logic as guns kill people.

Things do not happen or get created unless someone is doing the creating.

go to our Heavenly home, NOW!
Touj writes: Sunday, September, 16, 2007 6:32 PM

The other question that no one seems to be able to answer is why … … Grandma, whose stroke has left her totally disabled but we pull the plug without asking her either?

====

I always tell the doctor that if he hooks me to any machine, he better hope it doesn’t work. Because if it does, I’m coming after him!

Here is my response, I wrote this 15 or 20 years ago, I forget the year or the reason, but I just found it sleeping away in the computer, yesterday.

And yes I do require comments!!!

Analogy

We go to a fine restaurant, the atmosphere is wonderful, the building is beautiful, the salad and appetizers are excellent, the food is all we could ask for. Now here comes the waiter with dessert, his dirty thumb is in a dish of melted ice cream, with a piece of rotten fruit. We don’t need that, we want to leave right now, and go HOME!

We had a wonderful life, our work was a lot of fun, our marriage is all anyone could hope for, we were able to travel and enjoy everything we could want. Now here comes a man in a white coat with a bunch of wires and tubes, with a knife in his hand. We don’t need that, we want to leave and go to our Heavenly home, NOW!

hak
I think you missed the study that found that conservatives actually have more sex. Most conservatives are against abortion, but there are a few Dems as well.

Jim- another Leftie Fallacy
Giving us the bogus choice of brutal murder of babies, or of starving them to death.

This is known as a False Dichotomy, or the Black or White Fallacy:
http://www.iep.utm.edu/f/fallacy.htm#False%20Dichotomy
http://www.iep.utm.edu/f/fallacy.htm#Black-or-White

I suggest you go back to the drawing board and come up with an argument that adheres to logic.