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Sunday, September 16, 2007
Kevin McCullough :: Townhall.com Columnist
Liberals Lie, Children Die
by Kevin McCullough
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At this very moment one of the most liberal organizations in our nation has fraudulent papers before a court in the Midwest awaiting permission to begin the systematic slaughter of innocent children on Tuesday.

Using false pretense, misdirected answers on applications, and fraudulent forms Planned Parenthood is awaiting word to see if it will be allowed to open a super-butchery in Aurora Illinois this coming Tuesday. The situation highlights a new trend for the tax-payer subsidized organization that is now resorting to lying to municipalities and their populations in order to set up shop, hack women's uteruses and slice children's bodies like lunchmeat. Some of the children just inches from birth.

The way it works is first they set-up a phony name for a phony company. In the Aurora Illinois case they filed their fraudulent permits under the name of Gemini Office Management Corporation. Pretending to be a neutral landlord, they then asserted on the forms requesting the construction permits that the "tenant is unknown."

With the municipality duped, the residents of Aurora feel betrayed. Several reports have emanated from the region demonstrating that even people who do not normally protest abortion publicly are outraged and feel that they have been lied to.

And they should feel this way, because they have.

Steve Trombley, head of Planned Parenthood Chicago, said in an interview with Fox News that it was his feeling that Planned Parenthood had answered every question honestly and that his crew had followed the letter of the law.

He them added, "We did however work hard to make sure that our opponents did not find out."

But doesn't purposefully deceiving city officials on municipal legal forms, permits, and applications add up to fraud?

The Village of Aurora thought so. At least enough to haul Planned Parenthood before the judge who will now decide the case? The Aurora case follows similar deceptions in Texas, Washington DC, and New York. In the Texas case the deceptions even extended to the contractors working on the structure. To which when they discovered what they were building - walked out on the job and never completed it.

It is horrific enough that the purpose in the original founding of Planned Parenthood was to originally wipe out the future generations of black children. To understand the depth of the racism Margaret Sanger practiced and believed personally is nauseating. She detailed much of it for posterity in her own writings.

It is equally disturbing that Planned Parenthood has championed the practice of giving aid to child rapists. The average age of the girls seeking abortions in Planned Parenthood's facilities ranges 14-17. The average age of the sperm donors in these same cases ranges 23-28. Multiple sting operations across the country have netted endless hours of taped phone calls demonstrating how the Planned Parenthood operators encourage the girl to not volunteer her age over the phone as a willful act perpetrating supposed ignorance for the ability to plead, "That they didn't know." Under nearly all state law if a medical clinic has been made aware that a rape has occurred they are legally obligated to report it. This practice goes largely ignored by Planned Parenthood. Thus giving the rapists another day to live, breathe, and rape again.

Recently Planned Parenthood has gotten greedy. As a "not for profit" 501c3 they are licensed by and partially funded by the United States government claiming to offer medical care for girls to poor to be able to pay for it. 'Cause you know nothing says compassion like slicing up a "black-girl's-inner-city-they-would-prefer-this-than-being-born" baby while still in the girl's womb. Raking in over $60 million dollars in profit for the calendar year of 2006, they received tax-payer funding to the tune of $305 million.

Worst yet Planned Parenthood doesn't just lie to the courts, to law enforcement, to local school boards, to parents, to the citizens, to the tax-payers - but perhaps most importantly they lie to girls themselves.

Personal first hand testimony by women numbering in the thousands will attest to what they have been told countless times.

"It's not alive, it's just a tissue."

"No the baby can't feel a thing."

"You shouldn't experience any additional medical problems." And the list gets long...

Two truths need and must be understood about Planned Parenthood. They lie to everyone about nearly everything and liberals love them.

In liberal America Planned Parenthood is treated as a golden calf. Their issues are fought for endlessly by elected liberals who take money from their operation of human butcher shops and live a cushy life getting re-elected dozens of times over.

Planned Parenthood has taken the lives of more young people since 1973 than we have lost in all of America's wars put together. In fact by now in order to get an idea of how many deaths they have been responsible for - just pretend that nuclear weapons detonated in and wiped out the entire populations of New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, San Francisco, Dallas, Philadelphia, and Washington DC combined. (Though you'd still come up on the short side.) Imagine wiping out 40 million 34 year olds and younger.

THAT is the legacy of Planned Parenthood, and every liberal democrat (the majority of them) and every liberal republican (fewer but still sickening) wears upon them today.

Tuesday will be a sad day if the Aurora Planned Parenthood Super-Butchery opens; their stated goal is to put the "mom and pop" abortion shops out of business.

And since they are given a portion of the federal taxes we all pay - that makes us all guilty of the pain, abuse, malpractice, and murder that will take place there.

God have mercy on us all!

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About The Author
Kevin McCullough is the nationally syndicated host of "'Xtreme' Radio and columnist based in New York. He blogs at www.muscleheadrevolution.com. His second book "The Kind Of MAN Every Man SHOULD Be" is in stores now.

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Lilly - re 9/16 post 8:23
You say that Planned Parenthood provides health care for women and girls.

Yes, that is true.

My pharmacy is right next door to a Planned Parenthood clinic. No abortions are performed at this particular clinic (those are done at the other PP clinic across town).

The overwhelming majority of their patients are young, unmarried, sexually active girls/teens who are looking for birth control.

With sexual activity comes sexually transmitted diseases. Many girls are ordered various antibiotics, anti-infectives to treat these.

Doesn't it logically follow that PP has a vested interest in promoting/condoning teen-aged sex? That translates into lots of office visits (with their respective fees) for birth control pills/devices and treatment of STD's.

If PP promoted abstinence, they would most certainly be out of business, would they not?



Slummer
Your response to baseballdoc is way off. Comparing killing an unborn child to a marital problem is not a logical comparison. Thank the NEA for your ability to "reason".

Slummer - just another hypocrite
Slummer,

You bash Mountain Rose's posts as being "uber-hysterical, foaming-at-the-mouth." If you want to REALLY see foaming-at-the- mouth posts, try going over to MoveOn.org. You liberals are truly the party of hate. You see no problem at all with killing unborn children. Now there are even a few uber-wackos on the left who are starting to talk about the idea of killing BORN children who are less than fit mentally, such as a child with Downs syndrome. What in the world gives people like you the right to start deciding who lives and dies in this country? Mountain Rose's handle is very appropriate. By the way, Slummer, your handle seems very appropriate too.

Touj
BTW
I'm curious - Slummer asked you
what the position of anti-choice people will be when human cells are being aritifically created without human fertilization. This is going to be happening in about two years.

Sorry I do not have time for a long drawn out debate, but to answer your question if the "artificially created human cells," succussfully generates a human embryo complete with a full genetic code and ovular cytoplasm. Another words, a new and complete, immature, human organism, then my position will be exactly the same--pro-life. This immature human should be given the same moral status as one generated by fertilization.


HAK
You wrote: "On the abortion issue, if you are against it, do not do it. This issue is so deeply private that there is no way that an outside party can know and understand all the aspects of the individual’s decision in this matter. Consequently, we cannot judge or enforce choice of our conscience on other people’s decisions."

That sir is just plain dumb. What if I chose to murder my spouse? After all it's a deeply private issue and no one could understand the aspects of my decision. What if I was an NFL quarterback and decided to musrder dogs. It is a deeply private issue that no one should interfere with. DUH. I wish all liberals would stop with their "women's right to choose" smokescreen. Either the baby is alive or it isn't. And if it is alive (which most doctors believe it is) then it is murder. And when people go around murdering other people I have a problem with that.

There are other issues
"Every liberal, 100%, will argue ... that if you believe abortion is murder, than don't have one."

That *may* be true, but every liberal, 100%, also demands that, whether I believe abortion is murder or not, I must pay for a women to have one--and that even if I had nothing to do with her or her soon-to-be-dead child.

Of course, we are also left to wonder, if abortion mills like Planned unParenthood don't care if a woman has a child or an abortion, why they spend so much time and effort to convince young women to have the latter, rather than the former. I have a very difficult time imagining a Planned unParenthood "counselor" suggesting that such a woman think about adoption, for instance.

I also have a difficult time imagining that "counselor" suggesting that the woman delay sexual activity as a birth control method.

PuP is all about abortions; they are its founding principle and its cash cow.

No child deserves the 12-year sentence.
Save yours from the government's youth concentration camps.

Le
==
Please visit http://www.schoolandstate.org

slummer
Your opinions mean nothing, your expectations mean nothing, you are nothing......Chuck out...

Slummer
You are a real piece of Excrement.... Chuck Out..

ok grumpy
and i can see your campaign speech. "can't we just get along". bush tried to set a new tone and the dems aren't interested. they hate me so i'm going to hate them back. and if you think i'm embarrassed by my posts your mistaken. the only thing the dems respect is a strong force. you of course will lose because you won't fight back. hitler won that way til enough people were willing to give up their lives to stop him. it's the only way to stop evil.

marc
Oddly (or perhaps not), I could say the same thing: "I consider your kind of republican to be the problem, not mine."

I can completely understand refusing to compromise on a religious issue that you view as a moral imperative. Since I don't view it that way let's take your advice and split the party.

You've already written your first campaign speech: "we should take the hildabeast. line her up against a wall and rip an arm off. then a leg and finally her head and see how she likes it."

I can't wait to see the debate where you respond to your opponent with, "you and your goons can always be counted on spew your brainless, traitorous, minion of the devil left wing hate speech so bite me."


grumpy
your logic makes me wonder. i'm not going to mitigate my stance on abortion so evidently we can't be on the same side, because i consider your kind of republican to be the problem, not mine.

Semper Fi
Semper Fi, I couldn't agree more. The rights that animals have in this country, as opposed to unborn humans, is beyond shocking. The outrage over what Michael Vick did, while justified, cannot compare to that of what is being done legally to the next generation every single day. I am truly baffled at how out of kilter our priorites are in this country. May God help us all for our callousness and disgregard of his children.

Logic
If you don't like abortion, don't have one? What kind of logic is that? I'm glad the people who helped end slavery and World War II, along with numerous other world tragedy, didn't take such a calloused approach to human life and dignity. Quite a sad statement on our society when we encourage people to turn away from genocide simply because they are not personally involved. On a more pragmatic note, my tax dollars already fund abortions, since PP is publicly funded, female inmates are now being allowed to have abortions, and public assistance also provides the opportunity to give women free abortions. In that sense, I believe I have EVERY right to fight abortion.

Amazing
Animals seem to have more rights than human beings, see Mike Vick. He gets slammed over a bunch of dogs. Planned, nonparent, Hood gets nothing for the killing of Human Beings. Well I guess in the end they get a seat in H--- next to the greatest deceiver.

Replies
Lolo2: You're right, I overlooked "No tax dollars and No children under the age of 18 without parental consent." About adoption, I said "good adoption services available." In my book "good" includes fast, efficient, and inexpensive. You are very right about the current messed up system.

marc: good plan for never seeing a GOP in office again and thereby allowing unchecked abortion to continue.

AliveInHim: Good point about defining mother's "health." As to first trimester, I picked that time frame based on practical (not medical) considerations.

Mountain Rose, "When did it occur that telling the truth made you an extremist"? Well, "Satan is at work here" may or may not be true, but I promise the majority of voters will consider it extremist.

so what are you going to do?
Given the typical conservative rage about abortion, I look forward to the next logical step-what to do about women who have had abortions and health care providers who have assisted them or perfomed the abortions? Given the loathing conservatives have for everyone involved in abortion, and given what you believe--that 40 million human beings have been murdered--it is incumbent on you to tell us what you want to do.

The only consistent step would be to seek out, arrest, prosecute, convict, and imprison or execute all of those who have been involved in abortion. How many millions of people might that prove to be? If you just whine, complain, and make vague threats, I'm going to be convinced that you want the political gain out of being ant9-abortion--since it helps conservative candidates--but have no stomach for what is implied by your position.

So I expect some posts from thoughtful conservatives who've worked out the punishments for the perpetrators of abortion. The punishments must be harsh and decisive, and you folks must be ready for the tasks ahead. I don't expect to see much except some more conservative ranting; you do that best.

What if it IS human life?
Pro-abortionists keep telling us that we don't know that a fetus is human, so we should keep abortion legal. I've never understood that kind of logic. I sometimes wonder if Al Gore is human, but does that give me the right to kill him?

If we can establish that a fetus is not human, then arguments about "freedom of choice" would be relevant. But what if it IS human? The implications are almost too staggering to consider (which is why the pro-aborts want to avoid this question). If a fetus is human, we have perpetrated a massacre in this country that makes Hitler's crimes pale in comparison - and mostly for the sake of convenience.

I know God will be the final judge, but I wouldn't to be in the shoes of the pro-abortionists when they stand before Him.

spontaneous miscarraiges
I think the difference in the importance people put on the issue of spontaneous miscarraiges is a revealing one about the split in how people think about ethics.

People who bring it up as relevant tend to see the bad thing about murder as what happens to the victim. They find it hard to reconcile the idea that an embryo suffers from being aborted, with the idea that a merciful God has developed a system of reproduction in which more than half of all people conceived have likely been spontaneously aborted. It seems more plausible that personhood develops later or more selectively. The alternative would seem to reflect poorly on God, which seems a good reason to rule it out.

On the other side one has people who think that the problem with murder is not what happens to the victim, but rather that the murderer has violated God's law. Obviously God has not violated God's law, so the fact that more embryos are lost to God's will than planned human action is irrelevant to the abortion debate because only the latter represents a violation of God's rules.

The result of course is that the two sides talk past each other. The former group can't understand the horror over abortion if it is not thought to be horrible for the aborted. The latter can't understand why anyone would try to equate the morality of actions done by people and things attributable to God.

SLUMMER

.....Abortion is never safe for the baby ...legal or illegal ...abortion stops a beating heart ...

.....COLOSSUS ...

POSTSCRIPT: My late sister-in-law had a legitimate reason to have an abortion ...she had a terminal disease that put her life at risk ...on the advice of her doctor and after talking it over with her husband ...she agreed to have the abortion ...she died three years later but she cried and anguised over her lost baby until the day she died ...abortion is a terrible thing even when it is justified .....COLOSSUS

DVD - Adjutant
"Late one night last week, my son and his wife dropped by to show off their new DVD."

Is there any way I can get a copy of this DVD to post on a website for others to view/download?

We need to educate many immediately to start immediately reducing the killing while we work on a political solution.

please send an email to 99@hydroworks.net to establish communications.

Excellent point
"You know nothing says compassion like slicing up a "black-girl's-inner-city-they-would-prefer-this-than-being-born" baby..."

This is such an excellent point that had never occurred to me before. All the defenders of a "woman's right to choose" are really telling all the poor black people out there that the world would be better off if they had never been born.

This is certainly the message as they have done everything in their power to ensure poor black babies don’t make it into the world.

compassionate conservatives
"nothing says compassion like slicing up a "black-girl's-inner-city-they-would-prefer-this-than-being-born" baby while still in the girl's womb."

Yes, the same black girl that all the so-called compassionate conservatives call a "welfare queen" when she has this unwanted baby. They also want to cut off the low-income health care funding for it.

Why are you people so concerned about the unborn, but care so very little for the born?

Mary C.

Also, someone needs to inform this idiot that they only "hack women's uteruses" when abortion is illegal and unsafe.

Grumpy
When did it occur that telling the truth made you an extremist, and voicing insipid platitudes that no one finds offensive made you mainstream?

Hi Eastlake Joe
I guess I am a bit tongue-in-cheek, and doing a bit of Leftie baiting when I say I want them to not reproduce.

After all, it is the Left that are so hot to abort babies! If abortion is going to be legal, let it just be the Lefties who don't reproduce, and let the conservatives all have beautiful, happy babies, and live to a very old age, surrounded by large, happy families.

Maybe it would be better instead for all the conservative to adopt all the Leftie's babies and raise them to be conservative too!!!

Wiseone, calling anyone a “dunce”...
... is an invective in my books.

Calling me a liberal is just your ignorance.

Henryk A. Kowalczyk
http://www.henrykkowalczyk.com

Mountain Rose
Perhaps We are still in agreement as I mis-quoted you. The line said if the libberals want to keep from reproducing. If you mean through means of contreception then we agree. If that is
so then I appologise. joe

ALiveinhim
Google tubal ligation. Just a suggestion.

Grumpy
the biggest loophole in existence for justifying abortion is that of the mother's "health". These days, as indeed from the very beginning of the controversy, "health" can mean anything from having a mad on to feeling as though one wouldn't look good in a swimsuit post-pregnancy. Believe me I've actually heard the latter! You could even say that the oxygen deprivation I would suffer if I held my breath till I turned blue would suffice as a reason to abort in order to "preserve" my "health"-and you would be correct. This is how phony the "health" issue is.

Besides, when do the black robes on the SCotUS have the right to practice medicine by dividing the length of a pregnancy into "trimesters"? Who awarded them their MD's, and when? Good grief, pregnancy is an ongoing state for nine months (give or take) and at no time does the baby stop developing or maturing. He's all there right from the very beginning, since he is defined as his own person by his DNA, blood type and sex.

Mountain Rose
I usually agree with you and am quite surprised to be in dis-agreement with you but I have to dis-agree with your post about if libers want to kill their young so be it. All abortions unless the life of the mother is at stake should be illegal. Being liberal is a learned response ,you are not born that way. That child has just as much worth as any.

Grumpy
Another add on to that is stop making adoption so dang expensive and difficult.

grumpy
hey lets compromise everything we believe in just to get along with the dems. i think not. if the gop is too small for your opinion and my opinion lets split the party. my party will be ardently pro-life and your party will be john mccain. he will compromise my beliefs just to get himself elected so i can't vote for him anymore.

Grumpy
I would probably settle for that if you were to tack on 'No tax dollars' and 'No children under the age of 18 without parental consent'. As to abstinance and adoption education we have been all through that. It gets blocked at every turn. Instead of teaching self control(and we wonder why everybody is fat)we teach them how to have sex and not get caught. Or how to be just plain irresponsible.

marc
I see what you are saying.

Touj
Know it all name caller. Someone had to initiate the process. Legel is legal. Amuck is just that,your version is from Star Trek, and an assembly woman here in California named Patty Berg is trying to get euthanasia legalized. I said I do believe, as in I don't know for certain, that it is legal in Oregon. As to contradicting...never did. Maybe in your mind. I am making an assumption that you have one.

Since you like to disrespect and name call at someone who hasn't done so to you, I'll give you one. STUPID. Here's another one. SMUG. Ooopppsss! Here's another one...IGNORAMOUS!!!

You sound like Scaredofadouche, perhaps you are him.

ok and i'm saying
the system doesn't work. the system allows 1 1/2 million babies to be killed annually. and these mud for brains force their will on us because 5 judges say it must be so. and i'm saying there is no difference between an abortionist and the nazi's. thats what they did in the death camps

Why are people criticizing
Why are people criticizing wayward1 for writing, "10,000 people march into that facility and murder every individual that happens to be in there"

His reaction (though deliberately provocative) seems a perfect normal response after listening to:

"rise up and do it by force"
"slaughter of the innocents."
"Satan is at work here"
"line her (Hillary) up against a wall and rip an arm off. then a leg and finally her head"
"blood of innocent babies who have been forcefully ripped from their mothers' wombs by some heartless, soulless Dr. Evil"
"genocide of defenseless innocents"
"brutal murder of babies"

Heck, after all that inflammatory rhetoric I'm so fired up I want to go kill people, too.

Look: Do you want a GOP President (I do)? Do you want a more Conservative Congress, Senate, and SCOTUS (I do)? Then stop with the fire and brimstone crazed screeching and reach a compromise. Rape, incest, mother's health issues on demand and 1st trimester with counseling and good adoption services available.

If you think the issue is too important to compromise on (which is not an unreasonable position to take) then at least refrain from making yourselves -- and the GOP, by association -- look like a bunch of unwashed zealots carrying torches and pitchforks.


Tea Party
I hoped you pressed charges for those eyes.

marc
You misread what they were trying to say to you about how the system works. None of them were advocating abortion. They in turn though misread wayward1. He was purposefully trying to get people off of their backsides and get busy. Kind of like a preacher fires up the congregation, and he admitted as much.

It's okay, it happens all of the time.

I still have as yet to hear a good argument for abortion until I do I will not change my position.

Once upon a time when I was young and stupid the only liberal thing about me is I was on the fence about this issue. Then I grew up.

These guys are lucky my teenager wasn't on here today because she isn't quite as nice about it as I am.

Whoa there
something happened to my first post. The sentence "though He did heal and help all of them" should read "though He did heal and help a great many people, I note He did not heal nor help all of them-and not because He couldn't".

Sorry! :)

lolo2
explain how i misread and made no sense.

Touj
As the position and what it will...I myself will fight it every step of the way. Along with cloning and any other sick, twisted, contrived thing you guys come up with.

Jim
I hope nobody minds my jumping in but I had to respond to what you wrote;

I’m awake, I’m awake. I still say that since charities are not providing everything that people all over the world wants or needs, I prefer an abortion to a starving child.

Reading your posts, it's clear that you are a seasoned citizen. Surely, at your age, you should realize that NOBODY gets everything in this life. It isn't up to charity to provide everything to everybody. Though God certainly provides for even the sparrows, note well that He doesn't throw the food into the nest. That some get or have little to nothing at all is simply the way of the world. Pathetic? Yes. Tragic? Yes. Did Jesus say we'd always have the poor among us? Yes. I also note that though He did heal and help all of them-and not because He couldn't. Now what? Obviously we have missions and other philanthropic organizations come in but only in a perfect world would anyone even dream it is possible to alleviate all the suffering.

Please tell us how tearing a child limb from limb before he even draws his first breath is "better" than starving. Are you serious in implying that if you can't rescue someone from a situation you would not choose for yourself, you kill him?

wiseone
I think I should get some credit in regards to self restraint with him. After all I didn't make polish jokes.

Then again maybe it was because he creeped me out.

I'm
a battlscarred prolifer, have the pictures of my blackened eyes rec'd outside our local abortuary
some 20 years ago. Got them from one of the owners of the tomb. I've been involved since Nov '72, very active in the early years, but as the years passed, a generation grew up (the survivors I should say), I realized abortion will not be repealed until we have a change of our national heart. Right now, the murderers have so propagandized the issue it's become ingrained in our peoples hearts. Only Revival
will change it. That doesn't mean we shouldn't
demand defunding of PP and vote politicians who
will do that.

touj
btw, we pro-lifers like to be called pro-life. so would you pro-aborts use that term

jim
Sorry my friend, but your argument has a false foundation.

Gonna have to agree to disagree on this one.

marc
Your post made absolutely no sense and you have totally misread wayward1.

Touj
Your comments are pure stereotype and ridiculous along with slummer and his idiocy. To say no one ever has a botched abortion is pure ignorance.

touj
thanks for the love. the person you admire the most id bill clinton who is just as evil as hitler so you like hitler to. you totally creep me out dude....jim, are you leaving. please, please let it be true. take touj with you

wiseone
I used creep, maybe that's what he is talking about. It certainly applies to him though. I never thought of it in terms of Freud but I think your right.

Lolo
I just saw your post to hak about the study that said conservatives have more sex than libs.

The study also indicated that conservatives as a whole were more satisfied with their sex lives than libs.

But don't interrupt hak's superintellectual musings with any facts. You'll spoil the mood.

And I am too bashful
My last post was at 8:56, then I went to the Hot Tub to work on my WW II injury, and come back to see all these comments to and about me. I give up. I think anyone who doesn’t agree with me by now, never will, so that’s it. I hope the word abortion never again comes up in the Political discussions, until long after the election next year.

And yes, you can be sure I bought the Hot Tub with money that should have been used to buy food for hungry people, but we all can’t be perfect.

And I am too bashful, too self-conscious, and too shy, to tell about that injury!!

Life is in the ....
blood, according to biblical terms. A baby has a heartbeat and blood. It is alive. People can try to justify to sooth their tortured conscious, but you can't change the fact.

Have you noticed not ONE lib post that showed the tinest tinge of conscious about abortion. How a woman can murder something that is a part of them, is beyond me. It's like killing a part of themselves...very sick people.

Lolo
hak obviously has some kind of sex obsession. The topic of this thread is abortion and sex is only only indirectly relevant to that.

Yet hak acts like he's some kind of reincarnation of Sigmund Freud who's discovered a substitute theory for the Oedipus Complex where instead of the son child killing his dad so he have sex with mom, mom kills the child so she won't have to give birth and can go back to having more sex with dad. Or something lioke that.

In other words, he's a creep.

BTW - the only names I used on him were "lib" and "dunce". Which of these is an invective?

lolo2
be more specific

jim
"They why did a demo Senator recently proclaim on CSPAN his concern about the millions of children in our country who go to bed hungry."

You have got to be kidding!

You call yourself a conservative and yet you say you don't know why a Dem Senator would claim that millions of children go to bed hungry?

Why did Dick Durbin LIE about the conditons at Gitmo?

Why did Michael Isikopf of Newsweek LIE about a Koran being flushed at Gitmo?

Why have Democrats consistently dogged one the best economies ever?

Why do they insist on raising taxes when the tax cuts have pushed the Dow over 14,000 for the first time ever, unemployment is at 4.5%, and revenues to the treasury are INCREASING?

You call yourself a conservative but then cite a Democrat to prove your point?

The Democrat was LYING jim. And you fell for it like a ton of bricks.

Instead of googling 2,000,000+ articles, why don't you just google Robert Rector's report on poverty in the US at the Heritage Foundation. I suspect you will be quite surprised at how well the "poor" in this country live.

In it Rector points out that on average "poor" children in the US in the last two decades have grown (or will grow) to be 1 inch taller and 20 pounds heavier than the GI's that stormed the beaches at Normandy in 1944.

One of the all-time hypocrisies in this country is that the same left that did away with orphanages and flophouses in the 60's and 70's now complain the loudest about the plight of the "poor", and many of these, just like you, insist that the final solution is to mass murder them before they have a chance to go hungry.

And you're calling me "nuts"?

marc
Huh?????

hey wayward one
take heart bro. some of us are on your side. people like mrs paddy, conservative ron and carlos don't speak for me. by their logic we shouldn't have gone after hitler cus he never personaly killed anyone and who are we to say who should live or die. but they will be in the line ahead of touj and his goons to stab a conservative in the back. the truth is all abortion doctors should hang by the neck until dead. and so should the death camp guards" billary, shumer kennedy ect"

Anne/wiseone
Lets see this guy has the utter gall to ask about my personal life and he's worried about invective? Poster child for moral reletivism.

TEAR DOWN THE STATUE OF LIBERTY! Or at least require an IQ test.

jim
God has a plan or everyone and everything. There is alot to learn from that starving child. Both good and bad. And as I said earlier if the condition of the world were perfect 24/7 what would we learn? What would we create? Where' the incentive?

jim
Your still making the argument for entitlement reform, not abortion.

They shouldn't be allowed to eat for free, but that doesn't mean abort or starve them to death either.

Might want to google what the Bible says about charity. You only have half of the equation.

The teacher comment was priceless!!! LOL!

Hak is still a hack
More Ad Hominum attacks, ay?

Oh my, not another comment
Lolo2 writes: Sunday, September, 16, 2007 8:46 PM
jim
WAKEUP!!!!!!!!
----
I’m awake, I’m awake. I still say that since charities are not providing everything that people all over the world wants or needs, I prefer an abortion to a starving child.

I didn’t say either was my preference, but if a child can be expected to starve and suffer for the few months of its life, let’s stop the birth, until someone can find a way to force (if necessary) MEN and women to make proper choices in their sexual activities.

Anne, Lolo2 and wiseone
Thank you for your invectives.

I guess your mother did not tell me what mine did, that yours are the names that you call others.

Henryk A. Kowalczyk
http://www.henrykkowalczyk.com

And don't forget to support the
companies who are doing something!

Check out this website:
http://www.vitaecaringfoundation.com/

They are making pro-life films and trying to get the message onto college campuses. If you think they are doing something worthwhile, perhaps you may consider sending them a donation.

nor did we eat anyone's bread
Lolo2 writes: Sunday, September, 16, 2007 8:31 PM

Where is it written in the Bible that the poor have no right to children or love?
---
Nowhere that I have ever read, but also the Bible says good things about working, doesn’t it? (At this age I have trouble remembering details like that.) I think that every Welfare and/or homeless person, should have to attend classes where they would be taught how to be a useful citizen.

Oh, wait a minute, the teacher’s union would want to take over those classes and teach people their version of citizenship.

Now I didn’t open my Bible and check this, but on Google I found this. It is one of 43,600,000 Google responses about the Bible and work.

“ … nor did we eat anyone's bread free of charge, but worked with labor and toil night and day, that we might not be a burden to any of you, not because we do not have authority, but to make ourselves an example of how you should follow us" (2 Thessalonians 3:6-9).”

wayward1
Your absolutely right. I now shock my family because I stand up and I speak out. My parents finally admitted to me that the silent majority was too silent too long!

Remember though to temper it with this fact. Many of those protestors are paid to do that. Conservatives by nature are honestly employed.

When you take action, be prepared
for the Left's attempts to thwart you. They have the news media in their hip pockets, and they will do their best to silence your voice.

When the Pro-Life movement started marching in the 1980s, the media conspired to ignore our efforts. I participated in a Pro-Life march in which thousands of people walked down a major street in the San Fernando Valley. Not a single paper, not a single TV news broadcast even mentioned us.

Yet when three or four gray-haired gals in comfortable shoes showed up to protest Carls Jr. support for life, and the media was all over it.

Fortunately, these days there are more outlets, including the internet. Use every resource you can!

jim
WAKEUP!!!!!!!! For pete's sake why do YOU think the Senator said that as well as the gagillion articles?


Your paycheck! I have as yet to see even one child in this country with their belly bloated like an Ethopian, or undersized like North Koreans.

Even so it would make a case for charity not abortion.

Lolo2 writes:
"Some of us already are."

And my intent is to embarass or shock people until they do.

I personally know one of the few who attended the public debate for the Auroroa facility.

There were 7, count them, SEVEN conservative voices amidst a army of infanticidist's.

To count on a conservative, as to count on a declared christian, to accomplish good will by action will yield you nothing. They will however, copy and paste a posters' text for some ridiculous journal.

wiseone, you are nuts
wiseone writes: Sunday, September, 16, 2007 8:19 PM
jim builds another scarecrow
Now you're going from scarecrow to moron.

"Poor" children in this country don't starve. In fact, the single biggest nutritional problem the "poor" in this country have is OBESITY.
-----

They why did a demo Senator recently proclaim on CSPAN his concern about the millions of children in our country who go to bed hungry.

And go on Google and look at all the 2,000,000+ articles on Hungry Children in the USA. You are nuts.
-----------
And you said,

This is just like your broad-brush argument that men are irresponsible "pigs" and "idiots" who impregnate women and leave them.

But you were not stupid enough to say you believe that last statement.

wiseone
I thought so too! but I wanted your opinion. My husband read it and just about spit lemonade on my laptop due to laughing! Good thing he didn't, I would of had to hang him! LOL!

hak
Arguing with a fool like you makes me a fool as well.

This is my last post to you...ever!

You really make a case for dismantling the Statue of Liberty completely.

Lolo
Ok, I read hak's link.

It looks like we have another Hal D posting here, citing himself as his own source authority and really, really proud of himself for it.

And hak, if you're still here, the reason none of the first 12 people who read your 'musings' (and I use the term loosely) is because it doesn't even say anything, let alone support, dispute, or refute anything. It provides no imperical evidence, no logic, not even a cogent theory. Just another self-as-center-of-the-universe lib congratulating himself on being so smart when in fact he's a dunce.

wayward1: how true!
To borrow a phrase from a Leftie (Joan Baez):

"Action is the antecdote to dispair."

If we feel dispair about the state of our country, the best cure is to get off our duffs and DO SOMETHING!

jim
Your argument makes a case against entitlements not abortion. Kind of reminds me of Scrooge, "Are there no workhouses?" Many don't have abortions because of entitlements as well so there is a fallacy in your logic. The more they have the more they get.

What happened to Christian charity? You make an assumption that everyone on the planet is as smart as you. In a perfect world everyone would be responsible. Some really and truly don't know any better. I could also make a strong human rights case against your logic as well. Where is it written in the Bible that the poor have no right to children or love? Quite frankly where is it written you don't have a right to be stupid? Heck by that logic we should be performing partial birth abortions to posters on TH.

wayward1
You have a point. Some of us already are.

jim builds another scarecrow
Now you're going from scarecrow to moron.

"Poor" children in this country don't starve. In fact, the single biggest nutritional problem the "poor" in this country have is OBESITY.

This is just like your broad-brush argument that men are irresponsible "pigs" and "idiots" who impregnate women and leave them.

Lolo tells me you are conservative on other issues. I wish it weren't true. Conservatives like you who stereotype and allow your anecdotal IMPRESSIONS (not even anecdote EVIDENCE) to rule your thinking, and then try to jam your misbegotten conclusions down society's collective throat are an embarassment to the rest of us. No less an embarassment than when one of our 'conservative' Senators or Congressmen gets caught dirty, no less an embarassment than when Trent Lott says something really dumb trying to honor Strom Thurmond.

You're a real piece of work - that should have been sent back to the shop.

This is what I am against.......
This is very troubling......and I believe has contributed to the moral slide in America.

jim- no wires, no tubes
Sure, but people should have that choice.

I think there is a big difference between refusing medical care, and using medicine to end someone's life early.

Your choice was to keep the medical community out of it as much as possible. I agree with that.

But many want the medical community to participate in the death of old people. When my mom was at the end of her life, my stepfather wanted the doctor to overdose her, and tried to use the pain medication to do it himself. It made her sick to her stomach, but didn't kill her.

This is what I am against.

Lolo2, write whomever you like
This is a free country, I have a right to speculate how personal experiences affect political views of some people.

The question is, if lack of sexual satisfaction can result in radical anti-abortion political orientation? More about it is at http://www.henrykkowalczyk.com/Activists_bedroom.htm . If it bothers you, offer a better question.

Henryk A. Kowalczyk
http://www.henrykkowalczyk.com


desperate, get out of the way
baseballdoc writes: Sunday, September, 16, 2007 7:57 PM

I choose coat hangers in back alleys ...
=========
I remember nearly 60 years ago in Chicago, when a husband in the neighbor hood found his wife in the bathtub with a wire hanger. She lived, but when a lady is that desperate, get out of the way!!

I sure hope no one at this site, or anywhere in the world agrees with baseballdoc.

Words mean nothing....
As I expected after making my most appalling post the conservative base still doesn't get it. For 30 years the conservatives have sat back and bitched and moaned and complained, putting pen to paper, allowing our great nation to be transformed from the melting pot it once was to the chamber pot it is today.

Have you NOT noticed that the only ones getting their wishes are the ones who get off their buts and DO SOMETHING. The illegals march in the streets and we get amnesty bills. The pro-choice crowds march in the streets and we get another abortion mill. The anti-war folks march in the streets and we pull out of Vietnam and watch as 20 million die as a result. The anti-war crowds of today march in the streets and have divided the nation and our legislature, while leaving our nation and our troops vulnerable.

Still the conservative base talks....and talks...and talks....and accomplishes NOTHING.

Until the day arrives when the conservative base assembles it's masses and starts marching in the streets against activist judges, starts picketing abortion clinics and meets the anti-war crowd head on then the CONSERVATIVE BASE WILL REMAIN NOTHING MORE THAN AN EMASCULATED NUISANCE.

You sicken me.

To MotleyCrue, thanks for being the only one who understood the intent of my posting.

SKINNYWHITEBOY

.....Planned Parenthood or coat hangers in back alleys?

.....That's easy ...I choose coat hangers in back alleys ...

.....It would cut down the number of abortions by 99% ...and any fool stupid enough to use a coat hanger in a back alley is too stupid to
live ...my sympathy is for the innocent child .....COLOSSUS

Lolo: They are wondering what to do with
all the Baby Boomers.

There are millions of us who were conned into not having traditional families, and now we are headed toward being wards of the state in our old age.

The corporations are figuring out how they can renig on their promise to pay out pension money, the government is trying what to do if they are forced to pick up the bill in addition to Social Security and Medicare.

Many think the easiest thing to do is euthanize the Boomers. I am sure this in in many of the long-term plans.

Soylent Green, here we come!

responding to your 7:08 comment
Lolo2 writes: Sunday, September, 16, 2007 7:38 PM
jim
Please clarify something. In relation to hunger are you talking about the world or this country?
----

I was responding to your 7:08 comment, but I don’t like hunger anywhere in the world. I also dislike people who are poor and/or are on the street because of their own stupidity, and lack of responsibility.

When I owned apartment buildings, I would get excuses for not paying the rent, such as, “But we had company, and they wanted to go to Las Vegas.” As if that was more important than paying the rent.

How/why do the hungry people get the color TVs, cigarettes, liquor, drugs, etc., rather than food.

hak
One more personal question about my sex life and I will personally write TH in regards to yourself. You are a creep and it is none of your business.

Your presence actually bolsters the argument of pro-choicers.

The best thing I ever wrote
Mountain Rose writes: Sunday, September, 16, 2007 7:23 PM

I am all for Lefties euthanizing themselves. … … surrounded by those who love them
====

I have been a conservative since before you were born. I detest people who, based on one of the thousands of issues faced by millions of people in this country, make their political decision based on just one subject, whatever the subject is.

My Sweetie passed away from complications of Alzheimer's disease. Her illness lasted nearly 9 years, with me as her nurse, the last few years on 24 hour duty. I was sitting by her hospital bed one day when she said, “This must be awful boring for you.” I responded, “It ain’t boring, you’re my Sweetie.”

But during her last few days, no wires, no tubes, none of that crap. One morning I kissed her all over her face, she breathed two more breaths, then went to Heaven. I was with her for 55 years and 13 days on earth, and I can’t wait to get to heaven and be with her for eternity.

The best thing I ever wrote, is her headstone.

NOW THE ANGELS HAVE A ROLE MODEL

Moutain Rose
I have no idea where the popularity came from. But once they get through Universal health Care get ready for euthanization in the name of the almighty dollar.

California is trying hard to get it on the books and I do believe Oregon already has it.

Lolo2, I am not about statistics...
...pertaining to all conservatives. I am talking about a small group of anti-abortion fanatics. Do we have some here? Is your sexual life satisfactory?

You may find some answers by reading this http://www.henrykkowalczyk.com/Activists_bedroom.htm

Henryk A. Kowalczyk
http://www.henrykkowalczyk.com

jim
Please clarify something. In relation to hunger are you talking about the world or this country?

Lolo: Where did the popularity of
euthanasia come from?

Thirty years ago, Phyllis Schlafly wrote a book called "Child Abuse in the Classroom." Among other things she discussed a game played in "Health" class in high schools and colleges called "Lifeboat."

In this game, the participants are supposed to pretend that they are in a lifeboat, and that there are too few resources. They are given a list of the occupants of the life boat, and are expected to choose which person they are going to throw over the side to their death.

This generation of students are now middle-aged and voters, and have power over the life and death of baby boomers.

Don't be surprised when they pitch you off the lifeboat.

lack of responsability
The fact is that our society is getting so far gone these days that girls and boys our taught, by our generation, that sex is ok anytime anywhere. Now that these teachings have backfired, we and our children dont want to handle the responsibility of taking care of a human life, thats what it is right, and thats why they want to get rid of it right, because IT, lol, is a human being requiring hard work and love and patience and all those other things pro choice see as a burden on their already convenient lives. Whether it is law or not, and law is inherently flawed, doesnt change the fact that it is murder and wrong and evil. Remember that prayer is the best form of intervention. Rome was once the most powerful nation in the world, their decadence was thier demise.

jim
I have presented that abstinance and contrception argument. Trouble is you have liberals censoring that argument to justify their irresponsibility and bad choices. They also do it so they can be irresponsible. When you have people teaching teenagers that all teenagers have sex and can't help it, won't teach anything in the way of abstinance, then you have justification for stupidity. It used to be not many would have abortions, right up until it was promoted as a get out of jail free card.

I don't want to see anyone go to jail for having an abortion. What I would like to see is we educate our way out of the need for it. But that isn't going to happen with censorship. Roe vs. Wade should be over turned because it really isn't Constitutional. It established a very bad precedent. If the states then implement so be it. At least then you can vote with your feet. That is certainly more honest.

I had to laugh at the "Missie" comment. You sound like my husband when he is mad at me! LOL!

give people a chance to scream silently
Lolo2 writes: Sunday, September, 16, 2007 7:08 PM

What positive things have come from trying to end world hunger?
========

My, my, I haven’t spent this much time on comments any time in the past, and I sure hope this subject never comes up on TH again. Neither the column, nor the comments solve anything except give people a chance to scream silently, via the internet.

For more years than I can remember, I have recommended that every spec of food given to anyone anywhere in the world, be saturated with birth control. If you can’t afford food, you can’t afford a child.

Yes and that includes all free lunches in local schools.

Jim wants to go to his heavenly home
if indeed that is where he is going.

I am all for Lefties euthanizing themselves. We can always use fewer Lefties. But I am against bringing the medical community into offing people.

And I am in favor of people living at the end of their lives, surrounded by those who love them, as was the case with my beloved aunt.

The way we have lived our lives will determine our end.

neither is my choice.
Mountain Rose writes: Sunday, September, 16, 2007 7:05 PM
Jim- another Leftie Fallacy
Giving us the bogus choice of brutal murder of babies, or of starving them to death.
-------
What do you mean, “giving the bogus choice?” I never mentioned murder of anyone, I didn’t give or make a choice, I presented a fact that is real life in all parts of the world, and neither is my choice.

How about abstinent or contraception? Either would solve the problem.

Anne
It isn't. People like hak are we constantly have to bail out Europe.

BTW Bravo to you for your work on the other thread and please give my thanks to your son as well.

jim
BTW your abortion argument is actually conservative then by that logic we should dump all laws and go to a dog eat dog world. Why have laws against murder or anything else? isn't that govt. intrusion?

As to argument about life support I have no argument because I agree. Too often people are kept on support because family members do not want to face the inevitable. However, there are cases where the exception proves the rule. But once again our extreme society has run amuck and now wants euthanasia.

Lolo2: My question is why would that be

germaine to anything????

hak is such a jerk!



jim
I said I re-read your post. I think you need to re-read mine. And redefining liberalism does not bolster your argument at all.

You still can't seem to grasp all that we learn or is created from the negative. So while a starving child and or person is a negative, what we do in response to that negative or to combat that negative is a positive.

What positive things have come from trying to end world hunger?

Jim- another Leftie Fallacy
Giving us the bogus choice of brutal murder of babies, or of starving them to death.

This is known as a False Dichotomy, or the Black or White Fallacy:
http://www.iep.utm.edu/f/fallacy.htm#False%20Dichotomy
http://www.iep.utm.edu/f/fallacy.htm#Black-or-White

I suggest you go back to the drawing board and come up with an argument that adheres to logic.

hak
I think you missed the study that found that conservatives actually have more sex. Most conservatives are against abortion, but there are a few Dems as well.

go to our Heavenly home, NOW!
Touj writes: Sunday, September, 16, 2007 6:32 PM

The other question that no one seems to be able to answer is why … … Grandma, whose stroke has left her totally disabled but we pull the plug without asking her either?

====

I always tell the doctor that if he hooks me to any machine, he better hope it doesn’t work. Because if it does, I’m coming after him!

Here is my response, I wrote this 15 or 20 years ago, I forget the year or the reason, but I just found it sleeping away in the computer, yesterday.

And yes I do require comments!!!

Analogy

We go to a fine restaurant, the atmosphere is wonderful, the building is beautiful, the salad and appetizers are excellent, the food is all we could ask for. Now here comes the waiter with dessert, his dirty thumb is in a dish of melted ice cream, with a piece of rotten fruit. We don’t need that, we want to leave right now, and go HOME!

We had a wonderful life, our work was a lot of fun, our marriage is all anyone could hope for, we were able to travel and enjoy everything we could want. Now here comes a man in a white coat with a bunch of wires and tubes, with a knife in his hand. We don’t need that, we want to leave and go to our Heavenly home, NOW!

Touj
That a stupid, stupid, stupid thing to say, then you have to add the snarky name calling.

Life outside of the womb doesn't happen whether we like it or not. Yeah those things that make life just suddenly jump into as petri dish and create life all on their own. Right. Same logic as guns kill people.

Things do not happen or get created unless someone is doing the creating.

the stats
Actual partial #'s for 2005: 1/2 of sexually active teen (12-19) females become pregnant by 19, they comprise 1/2 of all US births, and 1/2 have abortions. (434,000 out of 1.1 million). National Review Online states the CDC is empowered to record abortion statistics by years but is often not current. Why not? Also, the CDC does not record abortion disasters or deaths. Why doesn't Congress require such minimal reporting on such an important and controversial subject?
My guess is liberals who want all abortions in all instances all the time for all don't want to face the unfortunate numbers of people for whom nicked blood vessels and ruptured bladders would pall the romantic embrace of a truly dirty act.

Isn't birth control legal?

Huge numbers of early pregnancies
end in spontaneous abortion or miscarriage becauSe 1) the implantation in the womb is faulty
2) the embryo or fetus is malformed
3) the mother's hormones are unbalanced and won't support the new life (thyroid and adrenal problems are sources of chronic miscarriage)
4) mother's nutrition or alcohol/drug consumption disrupts the development of the fetus

The number of spontaneious abortions is anywhere from 10% to 25%--not 50%--but the fact is no one knows because countless miscarriages are never recognized.

Considering literally billions of cells and processes have to work exactly perfectly for a "normal" birth, nature faces many possible problems for the baby to develop.

I think it's some kind of inversion that lefty abortion supporter who don't believe anything lives in the womb are so anxious to try to beat up religious people with the whacko idea that God is an abortionist because miscarriages occur. They never get tired of trying out the guilt card.

Aboriton should remain legal, but the US pop. conceives approx. 2.5 million pregnancies a year; half belong to teenagers and unmarried women and end up as abortions. Since 1972, if there were an even million abortions a year (and it's not that simple), there have been 37,000,000 possibly Am. citizens killed. Now, that's an unconscionable number.


Uh, Hak
probably the reason nobody's commented on the article is because the focus of it is ridiculous on its face. Some people really do have the courage of their convictions to go out there and face ridicule for the sake of their views, regardless of which side of an issue they're on.

I can't recall the name of the poll that found conservative Christians to have the most satisfying sex lives but still, what does that have to do with anything either way? And how would you know anything about the sex lives of others-you're not God, obviously, and if you are peeking into our bedroom you'd better understand that we are a second amendment home and will deal with peepers accordingly...

Screwed up sexual life
Within last hour 8 more people were curios to find out how their screwed up sexual life made them anti-abortion activists.

Keep working, please check out if it applies to you or someone you know: http://www.henrykkowalczyk.com/Activists_bedroom.htm

Henryk A. Kowalczyk
http://www.henrykkowalczyk.com

Conservatives or Liberals agree or disag


Lolo2 writes: Sunday, September, 16, 2007 6:15 PM
wiseone
I can attest to the fact that jim is really conservative and liberal on just this issue.
---
Thank you Missie, but I still disagree on the label liberal. Just because Conservatives or Liberals agree or disagree on a subject like abortion, does not make the subject either one or the other.

If Conservative or Liberal is used in the usual political sense, the amount of government involvement, that means that the lack of Government involvement in a ladies life, means that abortion is in fact a conservative idea.

Conservatives or Liberals agree or disag
Lolo2 writes: Sunday, September, 16, 2007 5:32 PM
jim
I certainly hope your crack about my mother was only a joke.
---
When I said, “But I bet she believes she raised her daughter perfectly!!” at 4:56 PM, that was not meant as a “crack” or a joke, it was meant as a compliment to both of you.
=======

Wouldn’t it be nice and a lot of fun if sometime someone would write a column for TH that would result in comments that were fun, showed humor, resulted in jokes etc. It’s always something that results in name calling, screaming, claiming this and that, but never anything that might be interesting and fun. As it is, I’ll bet no one has changed their mind on abortion regardless of all the snotty comments on this site today.

But I continue. No one has picked up on my use of the word “alternatives” when I say I am against all abortions unless the alternative is worse.

A thousand times a day, somewhere in the world, the doctor says we must let the fetus die to save the mother, or we must let the mother die to save the fetus. I don’t care if it is a single female, a wife, or a mother of any number of children, if any man says save the fetus and let the mother die, I say there is no need for a trial before he is executed 10 minutes later.

As I told the doctor before my daughter was born, “I know child bearing has its expected problems, but until my Beautiful Wife is as safe as she can be during childbirth, there is no baby.” The Dr. said, “That’s what I like to hear.”

======

OR
hak

the BULL ain't worth talking about

Self called — wiseone

writes: Sunday, September, 16, 2007 6:05 PM
As I said before, not you, not me, not any human can be sure we haven't killed … … Until you can provide that proof you risk promoting genocide … …
===
And you must provide proof to me that a starving baby is much better off than an aborted fetus.

As you said, “not any human can be sure” and that must include everyone who is not a wiseone, right?

Lilly - Legality vs Right
lilly writes: Sunday, September, 16, 2007 8:23 AM
What An Appalling Article
"Super-butchery?"
"Lunchmeat?"

"The facts are that Planned Parenthood wants to establish a clinic in Aurora, Illinois, a suburb of Chicago. This clinic would supply many women's health services as well as abortion, which, by the way, happens to be legal in the United States."

Lilly - Slavery was also legal in many states in 1840. Does that mean the laws were right at that time? I suspect that history will judge us less for our sensitivity to pregnant women and male predators than for our uncaring behavior toward the unborn.

What I find appalling is the indifference by many to the evil that Planned Parenthood performs in the name of women's healthcare.

hak: You are, as ususal, so far off base

it's incomprehensible!!!

Who cares? It has nothing to do with the column.

This column is about Planned Parenthood and abortions... ie: the murder of innocent children!

What a demented, maniacal, lunatic you are!




wiseone
Please read hak link. I would absolutely love to see what you will do with that one.

wiseone
I can attest to the fact that jim is really conservative and liberal on just this issue.

hak
I'll comment. Although well written Solomon you are not. It is full of fallacies and it is smug. Right off of the top many, many Christians are doing alot to help people with unwanted pregnancies. Secondly in this day in age there is absolutely alot of irresponsibility in regards to abortion, hence the reason you see the battles over teens being allowed abortions without parental permission. You also seem to negate the enormous amount of birth control out there.

Last, you fail to connect what a person's sex life has to do with their pov at all.

hak: an Ad Homimum attack if I ever
saw one.

If you can't measure up to your opponent intellectually, simply attack his character.

A typical Leftie move.

*YAWN*

More for jim
If you keep building straw man you're going to have to change your handle to "Scarecrow".

Making abortion legal hasn't done anything to make the "...the idiot who is responsible for the implantation of the sperm..." any more responsible. If anything it has made more sex partners of both genders more irresponsible. Can you say "straw man"?

You are a liberal on this issue. It practically screams off the page when you post.

For your next straw man you bring up the ridiculous notion that instead of proving a fetus isn't a human to justify abortion, everyone who opposes abortion has to prove to jim that the baby will be supported in a manner jim approves of before birth is allowed.

Margeret Sanger would be so proud of you. How nice of you to pick up her mantle of playing God now that she is no longer with us.

As I said before, not you, not me, not any human can be sure we haven't killed more than 40 million people via abortion since Roe Vs Wade was decided in 1973.

Until you can provide that proof you risk promoting genocide of defenseless innocents for the convenience of the living. Morally and ethically this is conduct on a par with Stalin and Mao. Genocidal communists are the company you keep.

Sleep well.

BTW - Stalin and Mao were leftists. That means they were liberals, you who claim to have been a conservative for more than 5 decades.

Sexual life of abortion opponents
This morning I placed a comment containing a link to my text about sexual life of anti-abortion activists. This text is not available for regular visitors to my website. One needs to follow the link as follows: http://www.henrykkowalczyk.com/Activists_bedroom.htm . Thanks to this feature, I know that today exactly 12 people reading this discussion board checked out my text.

No one commented on it. It must be painful.

Henryk A. Kowalczyk
http://www.henrykkowalczyk.com


Starve a baby or abort it?
That is as foolish as suggesting that the only alternative a battered wife has is to die?

One of the things we can thank the Left for is their efforts against the practice of taking babies away from unfit mothers.

Until the mid-Twentieth Century, if a mother had too many children, and couldn't care for them, some or all of the children were taken away and adopted out to loving homes.

An Ideology of death!
__ Until we start addressing the facts of this issue, our society will continue to be divided. That fact is, there are those among us who secure power and possession, according to individual passion. In this article we had an individual group, Planned Parents, securing a position according to their passion. Many of us passionately hold, indiscriminant abortion is murder. Many of us are secure in our position that, indiscriminant abortion is murder. A position from which we prosper, but a prosperity we gain in the future. On the other hand, Planned Parenthood, and their compadres, are of immediate prosperity, and the prosperity of their ilk in the future. We can argue among ourselves till we are blue in the face, but it is not going to change the minds of the dieing. We need to do all we can, to prevent this ideology of death, from securing power. Securing power, and teaching their ideology to our youth. As death is their prosperity, life is ours.

jim
Okay I re-read your post again and can see that it was only a joke.

BTW there is a large percentage of women who can't have children after abortions and are scarred for life.

jim
I certainly hope your crack about my mother was only a joke.

Mountain Rose
I pointed out that stigma once before and everyone went off the cliff.

skinnywhiteboy
You really think that is the only solution? Legalized abortion or coat hangers?

Ridiculous.

jim
Another also. Aboting and killing a baby is punishing the innocent for the sins of the father and mother.

jim
Also too much govt., taxes, laws etc. is punishing the innocent.

jim
Only some men? Most men. It is safer for women to presume that. Your talking about a perfect world and the pursuit of that world is not abortion. You seem to forget all the good that comes or is created in response to the bad.

Forming your opinion in response to one fanatic is just well...silly. It is an overaction to overreaction.

Jim- Just wanted to point out
that since abortion was made "safe and legal," not only did the the number of pregnancies per capita went up, the number of LIVE BIRTHS also went up.

We were so careful to remove the stigma of being an unwed mother, that now they have nothing holding them back.

she raised her daughter perfectly!!
Lolo2 writes: Sunday, September, 16, 2007 4:40 PM
I have to laugh
My father is absolutely against abortion.
My mother … … In her view women aren't raising their daughters right.
----
But I bet she believes she raised her daughter perfectly!!

I told my Granddaughter that her mother learned everything about raising a teenager from me, I did it and it turned out perfectly, so listen to her!
------
lolo said, I told my daughter that men will say or do just about anything for sex.

You should have said, “some men.”

=======
Lolo2 writes: Sunday, September, 16, 2007 4:29 PM
jim
BTW...what extremists want to see starving babies because they didn't get an abortion?
----
I wish I had written down the name, but I actually did hear an anti-abortion fanatic say that on TV last year. He actually believed that a starving baby was better off than an aborted fetus, really. Don’t have an idea who or when or where.
=====
punishing the innocent for the irresponsible in society.

I can find no definition of the word Punish, that would fit that case. The mother can still have a beautiful baby when she is able to physically, socially, and financially support the baby. Wouldn’t you like that better?

With your kind permission, I will
take my leave. The family has arrived, and all is well in my corner of the world. The patio tables are laden with goodies. Red wine breathes in wide-mouthed decanters, white wine is chilling on ice, boats rock gently beneath us while further out sails billow in an increasing breeze. We adults will sit outside, sipping wine and conversing, protected from the sun by green table umbrellas while Steve Tyrell sings "I've got the world on a string" and tots shriek and chase each other, just for the sheer joy of being alive--something those aborted babies will never get the chance to do.

On that note I will take my leave.


jim
Sorry jim but I just don't agree and I am not sure God would either. The fact of the matter is it still has shades of Mao to me. There are lessons to be learned about those starving babies and better way to save them is to be a better person and a better Christian. If everything in life were perfect, if everything was all good and no bad, what would there be to learn.

Like I said there is much to learn from failure as success.

I have to laugh
My father is absolutely against abortion. However he is so fed up that even he said he might be willing to compromise if we could just go back to the original Roe vs.Wade and let God judge those who do wrong.But since we are a nation of extremes we now have partial birth abortion in the equation or debate. So he rapidly getting back to no abortion because of how far over board society goes.

My mother admits to being torn on the issue but says abortion would be obsolete if women would wise up and stop falling for the song and dance men give in the pursuit of sex. In her view women aren't raising their daughters right.

This is a prime example of how many different angles there is to this issue. We keep moving our morality lines.

I told my daughter that men will say or do just about anything for sex. I told her a whole lot of other things as well but I get booted for posting that! LOL!

Well, I hear the sound of merriment.
Looks like family is arriving. For all you libs out there, the "family" I refer to is a group of people united by blood and marriage. There are generally children involved, more than likely arriving through the process of consummation and birth. Write this down, folks on the left. It's important to understand the conservative mindset that thinks the greatest gift in the world, whether through God or evolution, is the ability to unite through the birth of children. You should try it sometime.

Motley Crue
Isn't that the truth. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink.

jim
BTW...what extremists want to see starving babies because they didn't get an abortion? Never have seen or heard that ever. Furthermore it is still punishing the innocent for the irresponsible in society. Let's just punish the irresponsible.

As to the male equation of your question, I do see your point. We could do more and should do more about that especially with the advent of DNA. I will tell you though that women hold the cards since God made it so that women get pregnant. As I tell my daughter you are the one who will be pregnant, so you are the one holding the cards, so you need to be the one exercising the most responsibility. It isn't that I am giving men a free pass, but I am saying is biology is biology and I didn't create it. Women do have to work with what is in front of them. they can start by demanding the most from men.

Greetings, Lolo2.
I'm glad to see you're here to carry on the fight. Educating people who refuse to be educated is a b!tch, isn't it. But we try.

saved a beautiful baby from starving
Lolo2 writes: Sunday, September, 16, 2007 4:09 PM
jim
Your alternative has been tried. Remember Mao?
======

Lolo, I didn’t say it would solve all the problems in all the world, but in each particular case, the abortion often saved a beautiful baby from starving and being abused.

There were still starving babies, but I still prefer an abortion to a starving baby, and can’t for the life of me determine how others can say that starving is better.

If your charity can solve the problem before the baby is abused or hungry, I will agree with you, but even if you save the cost of an abortion, that would not feed a baby very long.

Moutain Rose
I do get torn on the gentle persuasion I must admit. Because here in liberal land they just censor gentle persuasion so you can't do any persuading.

Jim writes:
"I usually bring this up, and never get a comment, so here it is again: Why are all of you only commenting on the pregnant lady? What about the idiot who is responsible for the implantation of the sperm."
_____________________________________________________

You are missing the point of the debate, Jim. This is not about the pregnant girl or the male responsible for it. This about the factories that are set up with taxpayers money for the sole purpose of aborting babies. They're a business, no morality involved. To them it's like butchering hogs. Got it?

slummer
Creating life outside of the womb is another thing that has gone way too far. We are such a nation of extremes. Did you miss on the news where now they are combining human and animal egg and sperm and creating an 'it'? TOO FAR!!!!

Again rule #1 no one gets to play God.

There are just as many lessons to learn in life from failure as success.

jim
Your alternative has been tried. Remember Mao?

Again I say, I am absolutely against
Lolo2 writes: Sunday, September, 16, 2007 3:44 PM
jim
I answered your question a long time ago. … … You seem to forgot about the charity part in answer to starving people.

If your solution to starvation is abortion
-------

Yes I know you answered lolo, but I am wanting to give others at least a chance to read, if not consider the problem in real life.

There are extremists who love to see a starving baby just because that proves the mother did not have an abortion. That’s their single issue goal, above and beyond all other considerations.

Charity has never solved the problem, and most likely won’t, as long as unbridled sex is the way of life for billions of people.

Again I say, I am absolutely against an abortion, unless the alternative is worse.

FOUND IT: Vitae Caring Foundation
Hi Savage 99 and everyone who is interested in helping save lives of innocent children.

The name of the company is Vitae Caring Foundation, and here is their URL:
http://www.vitaecaringfoundation.com/

I see from their website that Pat Boone is involved in helping to promote their company.

Please check them out. I know their heart is toward gentle persuasion, unlike me!!!

“heads” he gets an anesthetic,
mrs Paddy writes: Sunday, September, 16, 2007 2:12 PM

that the child lept in Elizabeth's womb (she was carrying John the Baptist)
---

Well, if we are going to say there is a baby about to be born each and every time my stomach growls, and quivers, we have a completely different story.

Of course the movement of a fetus is very different from the movement of my stomach, but don’t try to say movement in the mid section means life.

Please understand, I am absolutely against an abortion, unless the alternative is worse. Every day you make decisions based on what alternative is available. In a restaurant you order the steak instead of the chicken, you park in this spot instead of that one, and I will always be in favor of an abortion rather than having starving, abused babies, anywhere in the world.

I usually bring this up, and never get a comment, so here it is again: Why are all of you only commenting on the pregnant lady? What about the idiot who is responsible for the implantation of the sperm.

I suggest that an abortion can be requested only by a female who is pregnant, and who then provides the name and location for the male responsible. Along with the abortion, if requested by the lady, there will also be either a castration or what ever you call that other operation. Prior to the operation a short ceremony will determine that “heads” he gets an anesthetic, “tails” he doesn’t.

And how about the ladies tubes? That would eliminate the second abortion.

drivebyposting
Your equating God to being an abortionist. another straw man argument since God layed out very specific rules one of which YOU don't get to play God.

Secondly as to the morning after pill an IUD does the exact same thing with less side effects. Many pro-choice people use the line of "health of the woman" well women are dying from this pill, and we don't even know yet what the long term effects of the chemical are. If you truly cared about the health of a woman you would become a little more informed about all methods of birth control.

right to define my political stance?
wiseone writes: Sunday, September, 16, 2007 3:09 PM
For jim
"Why do you think that everyone of any political stripe, all think exactly the same about everything?"

True conservatives do not agree with the ruling in Roe vs. Wade.
-----
What gives you the right to define my political stance? What gives you the right to use the word “true”?
---
You say, On this issue you are a liberal who has constructed a straw man

Only you in your disturbed mind, could I be described as a liberal. And your idea of a straw man is stupid. It has often been said, that if men could get pregnant, abortions would be available everywhere.

jim
I answered your question a long time ago. Quit asking it. Your only analyzing one part of the equation. You seem to forgot about the charity part in answer to starving people.

If your solution to starvation is abortion then it's a non-starter especially since it never worked for Russia or China.

Thank you Savage 99
I will make a more concerted effort to find the pro-life production company I mentioned and hook you up with them.

touj
I think you need to rent "The Island of Doctor Moreau."

touj.
--snooze--

i agree with doc
I agree with doc that conception determines when life begins, thus all arguments that center around how far the fetus has developed are speculative and fallacious. Concerning HAK's assertion that abortion decisions are ''deeply private'', so what? I'm sure suicide is equally ''deeply private'' but it's still illegal and reprehensible. I believe that if a woman's life is in jeopardy, abortion is justified; anything else is pure murder.


Abortion a hanging offense----
In the past, we here in Texas had a long tradition of hanging murderers from tall trees. I see no reason why everyone associated with Planned Parenthood should not suffer the same fate today. A child does not evolve from being a "thing" to becoming a child by some hocus pocus magic. If it is a child when it is born, it had to be a child at conception. These people are murdering the most innocent human beings on earth and getting away with it as far as the courts of corrupt mankind are concerned. But God's court is far different. It cannot be swayed by the lies of liberal mass murderers. God sees abortion for what it really is and will stuff those incredibly wicked abortionists and their evil supporters into the very depths of the worst part of hell, and that without the slightest exception. Meanwhile, we must do whatever we can to stop the slaughter of the innocent little lambs. I suspect that we are enmeshed in the Iraq war mess and terrorism generally largely because God has given our nation over to great tribulation on behalf of justice for 45 million slaughtered infants. We can be absolutely certain that when abortion ends, the war with terrorism will come to a swift conclusion worldwide.

drivebyposting writes:
"I would argue that the conservatives never make such ethical arguments about public vs. private moral boundaries because they are not really interested in making abortion illegal. What they are really interested in is being self-righetous, pompous, and sanctimonious and calling liberals baby-killers."
___________________________________________________

The Terry Schiavo case was argued on the basis of "She would have wanted to live," from her family's POV, and the opposite from the husband's POV. The husband won in court. From what I understand, Tom Delay's father wanted off life support. Delay acceded to his father's wishes. Both of those cases were decided as a matter of personal choice.

Tell me, oh enlightened one, what choice does an unborn child have? And, please, don't even suggest they would choose death over life.



For jim
"Why do you think that everyone of any political stripe, all think exactly the same about everything?"

True conservatives do not agree with the ruling in Roe vs. Wade. To agree that the SCOTUS was ever envisioned to create a "right to privacy" out of the language of the Constitution pertaining to unreasonable searches and seizures is a liberal concept. To agree that this contrived "right to privacy" must be extended to exempt abortion from state regulation is even more liberal.

You have shown you are liberal on this particular issue, regardless of whatever issues on which you are conservative.

So my assertion stands. On this issue you are a liberal who has contructed a straw man because you cannot win the argument on reality.

You still have not furnished proof that a fetus is not a human (your "belie[f]" that God said it is not proof any more than any Catholic's belief that God said life begins at conception is proof). An aborted child will be just as dead regardless of your "belie[f]".

BTW - many words are "antonym[s]". Of course "wiseone" is one. It is the antonym of "foolish one". So what?

You have just attempted to refute a charge that you have constructed a straw man by constructing another straw man. You are the fool here. Do yourself a favor and go find your fantasy website in your fantasy world where men are pigs that get pregnant and anyone who disagrees with you is an "antonym".

privacy issue
It astounds me that many feel it is okay to jail a parent who smacks an unruly child on the bottom to get its attention while ignoring the heinous crime of ripping apart an unborn infant because it is an inconvenience.

If we are so concerned with privacy then let parents rear their children, use or abuse their animals and spouses as they wish.

In reality, we are all part of society and even private decisions and actions have public consequences. The privacy issue is fallacious when an entire generation of children has been attacked while in what should be the safest place on earth.

re; Touj writes:
I think the correct phrase is "playing God." God says, so many times in the Bible, that he is Jealous of those who try to take his role.

I grew up in a humble setting. One of the lessons instilled by our minister was that one smell test of whether a Christian was acting primarily in their interest or in Christ's interest is to look for humility. No humility then they are most likely acting for their own interest. There is little to no humility here or on Town Hall in general. This is not a Christian place.

Ultimately, God tells us that some more dilemma can only be resolved by him and final judgement is his alone. I readily admit there are moral situations I am unable to judge and pray. Yet some Christian's like to pretend there are no moral dilemmas and they can discern right-from-wrong on everything, playing God.



Telling
Finally, I think in the ethics department that the only "morning after pill" is the one that aborts and doesn't sustain.

It's been known a long time over 50% of conceptions get flushed down the toilet. Yet no effort, none, zippo, nada, has been made to make a morning after pill to encourage the egg to stick. Oh, I take that back. There are fertility drugs one can take but they are not designed for the average person, they are designed for people who have problems conceiving at all.

We see no great scientific money being spent on a morning after pill for all women to take immediately after sex? Why not?

Is it perchance, because in reality no one really cares whether 100% of all conceptions stick?




K McH bleats, TH posters tweet
You're all too funny. But you still might try looking to China as another example of why the government needs to keep its nose out of reproductive rights.

Because that nose, like all things governmental, can sniff both ways.

ink og neato: Ummm? Aren't you the

"ingocnito" etc., etc., etc. who has been banned for life....?

Sure sounds like the same ranting and raving....



wayward1 writes:
"I have come to the conclusion with a fellow poster that we can only stop this insanity through force."
___________________________________________________

I notice immediately how his words are greeted with horror. Liberals throw up their hands, bewailing the savages on the right who would propose such a thing. Why, the very idea of killing abortionists is vile, demented, and so on and so forth, ad nauseam.

Yet the violence against the unborn in America's death abattoirs is unceasing and unparalleled in the history of man, Hitler and Stalin notwithstanding.

Hitler made no bones about his "final solution."
It wasn't about money, it was about getting rid of the unwanted in his glorious dream of an Aryan Third Reich.

What glorious dream do liberal left-wingers have, to explain away the murder of millions of unwanted babies? If it isn't money, then by all means please enlighten me.

Ethics
There are two separate ethical arguments regarding abortion.

1.) Life begins at conception and abortion is murder.

2.) The decision about when life begins is a personal choice and not a publicly enforceable one.

Every liberal, 100%, will argue that if you do not believe in abortion, that if you believe abortion is murder, than don't have one.

What that says is the argument to be made is not that abortion is murder, but rather the choice morality transcends a personal decisions.

Here's a poll question for you:

Do you believe that the question of when life begins is a religious decision? If so, do you believe that decision is protected by Freedom of Speech?

Everyday, hundreds of people are faced with the personal decision, the personal moral choice as to whether to take someone, a loved one, off life-support.

Why is it that this ethical decision to pull life-support is moral at the personal level and yet the decision to abort life is a matter of public regulation?

Say what you will about the Catholic Church, at least they are constitent with their view. It was interesting during the Terry Schiavo case that Tom Delay was against pulling her plug when he agreed to do the same exact thing for his father.

And I think Tom Delay's predicament depicts the pro-life predicament. The pro-life people have never tried to argue the ethics of personal vs. public choice. Where are the ethical lines about when religious personal convictions are the moral deciding principles and when are those lines crossed where the public gets to mandate?

I would argue that the conservatives never make such ethical arguments about public vs. private moral boundaries because they are not really interested in making abortion illegal. What they are really interested in is being self-righetous, pompous, and sanctimonious and calling liberals baby-killers.







Aurora
The city of Aurora seems to have acted wisely here. The lawsuit they filed appears to be frivolous. That planned parenthood was opening a clinic was front page news in the area long before they supposedly snuck in their facility. They showed the city blueprints for an abortion clinic (notably because unlike most medical facilities it needs bulletproof glass to protect it from people who love life). And the cities explanation for why it did not realize that this was the planned facility is that the way things were filed was so routine it did not stand out.

But by filing the suit, they get the family planning services for the poor that the city needs, and they get to distance themselves from the source of protest. So they get the best of both worlds. They get services, and they get to step away from the contraversy that the services provide.

Mountain Rose
O course, go to the schools. There have got to be films like the one Adjutant(memory) mentioned with pictures of babies in the womb. If there is any kind of sex education program in any school, a film like that certainly should be part of it, and having it included, even against the wishes of the abortioners, would seem to be a good chance. I'm on the board of a Charter School and i haven't even seen the films being shown. This will change soonest.

Ethics
To engage in modern ethics is to engage technology. Abortion as we know it today is the product of science and technology. To make ethical arguments about the use of technology mandates an understanding of technology. So many liberals are against Nuclear Power plants who haven't the foggies clue how such a plant works, the advances made since 3 mile island, or the actual risks involved.

That's how you all sound. Like a bunch of liberals ignorantly protesting power plants.

What's the truth?

1.) Science has shown that over 50% of all conceptions abort in the first two weeks. If you believe that life begins at conception then you just made God into the biggest abortionist of them all.