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Sunday, March 18, 2007
Kevin McCullough :: Townhall.com Columnist
Why real men confuse and anger Liberals
by Kevin McCullough
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Real men, the kind that understand their roles of protection and provision in this life, to their families, and for our world, confuse liberals. They also make them really mad.

They don't intend to, it's just a side product that can't be helped.

When a real man speaks with plainness and honesty it sends shivers down the spines of those who oppose him, and in a sense reveals their weakness and inadequacies. It exposes the fact that girly men are better at studying their navel than slaying dragons. Naturally when one then encounters a dragon slayer, a girly man finds it difficult even uncomfortable to deal with.

Since the modern feminists began marching in the 1960s - and everything became feminized - real men have dwindled in number. But every now and then they pop back up rearing the ugly head of truth, confidence, and unrepentant strength.

Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, General Peter Pace proved to be just such a man this week.

In the renewed debate being pushed by the radical sexual mafia amongst the liberal elements of our government the issue of altering the current policy of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" is being discussed. It would seem natural that the press would take interest in whether actual military members desire to see the rule changed. Turns out the overwhelming majority don't. So when a liberal propaganda machine, cleverly disguised as a Midwest newspaper asks the very top military man in the nation his opinion on such a rule - its bound to cause people to take note.

In an interview with the Chicago Tribune this week General Pace stated:

“I believe homosexual acts between two individuals are immoral and that we should not condone immoral acts,” he said. “I do not believe the United States is well served by a policy that says it is OK to be immoral in any way.”

Of course this simple statement which is easy to understand and of its own context is self explanatory riled the feathers of the girly men, the manly women, and members of both political parties who are seeking the White House.

Hillary and Obama both decided at first to avoid a position on the substance of the remarks. They then both released statements stating something completely different saying, "homosexuality was not immoral" to them. (Of course the General had been very clear in what he labeled as immoral - it was the specific acts.) On the GOP side, John McCain and Rudy Giuliani have both long expressed a desire to see "open" service for homosexuals. "Open service" has become defined as being allowed to act on those homosexual inclinations that some feel. The military's current policy does not ban how one thinks, how they allow their emotions to pulse through their bodies, or even what they believe spiritually or politically about homosexual acts. The current policy merely holds in place the rule that they are not to be acted upon.

The comparison, for those of you who are liberal and still deeply confused by such blatant simple truth, goes like this. As a married man a soldier may believe that adultery is ok. He may have no pang of conscience within him that restrains him from doing it. He may often in his mind greatly crave another officer's wife, and even contemplate how he would approach it. But the military has designated acting on such impulses as being unallowable.

The General understands that were the military to lift such strict codes of behavior and to in essence allow some Godless, immoral viewpoint to become the basis for actions - that it would have devastating impact on the mental, physical, and intellectual discipline that the greatest fighting force on planet earth in such need of. Pace understands that to begin giving in to a society that argues its military should be run under the same feminized and immoral feelings of "if it feels good - do it", would be to invite disaster.

General Pace is a strong man. A man who stands in contrast to another man who has lived most of his public life in captivity to the modern feminist mindset - former New Jersey Governor Jim McGreevey.

McGreevey revealed this week in his on-going divorce dispute that he is now seeking child-support payments from the woman he used to provide a living for - while she was busy raising their daughter. That's right - he's off in anonymous sex trysts in national parks, and his wife was putting their beautiful seven year old girl to bed at night having to try to explain where daddy was. Of course she didn't know either. The point being that real man would never leave the protection and provision of the wife he swore an oath before God to. And certainly no real man would be off in the woods, doing unspeakable deeds and putting his family, job, and community at risk.

Yet the criticism from this week has been fierce and focused only on Pace - a real man.

Real men take it on the chin sometimes. Many times they are maligned.

But at the end of the day there is more contentment in the heart of a man who lives his life with integrity - then there ever could be with men who live enslaved to the impulses that guide their libidos. Liberals stand in profound confusion at how this is so, and because it is they grow personally hostile to someone knowing such contentment.

I do know that clarity and contentment in my own life.

Would that I could give it to every liberal I know.

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About The Author
Kevin McCullough is the nationally syndicated host of "'Xtreme' Radio and columnist based in New York. He blogs at www.muscleheadrevolution.com. His second book "The Kind Of MAN Every Man SHOULD Be" is in stores now.

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Sorry, but I had to chuckle
"It exposes the fact that girly men are better at studying their naval than slaying dragons."

Their "naval"? As in, what, aircraft carriers?

Could he have meant "navel"? As in belly-button?


I mean, c'mon, if you're going to put someone down, you've got to get the metaphor correct, or it becomes silly.

It's good to know
there are still "real" men in this country, like General Pace.

This article about real
men will no doubt provoke Critical Bill into a fit of rage so great he will choke on his own girlie man drool. CB is so insanely jealous of Ben Shapiro, wait until he reads this article.

LOL
It sure takes a man's man to publicly malign the homosexual community. Those "girly-men" on the front lines under "don't ask don't tell" must be quaking in their boots.

Kevin McCullough
"When a real man speaks with plainness and honesty it sends shivers down the spines of those who oppose him, and in a sense reveals their weakness and inadequacies. It exposes the fact that girly men are better at studying their naval than slaying dragons. Naturally when one then encounters a dragon slayer, a girly man finds it difficult even uncomfortable to deal with."


I certainly don't claim to be a "real man", whatever that is. I will, however, speak plainly and honestly:

Peter Pace is entitled to any opinion he can devise. That is a fundamental right. However, by expressing his opinion as a leader, and impugning the character of thousands of honorable gay men and women who serve under "don't ask, don't tell" in a time of war, he has disgaced his position. Want me to be plainer still? He is a filthy bag of human excrement for insulting his own troops. The h*ll with him.

Hmmm.
I understand the argument that gays would disrupt unit cohesion, but don't give me the morality baloney. If soldiers who engage in immoral sex acts are unfit for service, then the military has a big problem on their hands. How in the world are they going to protect the country after they purge the the 95% who engage in immoral pre-marital sex?

Please. Morality is not the issue.

homosexuality= immoral???
It seems to me the basis for the belief that homosexuality is immoral boils down to this: "The Bible tells me so!" Thing is, the Bible also requires the death penalty for swearing at one's parents, forbids the eating of meat cooked rare, and obligates the man who rapes a virgin to buy her from her father and marry her. Homosexuality an "abomination"? So is eating shrimp according to the Bible bigots cite to justify their homophobia.

If SOMEONE could give a convincing argument as to why homosexuality is immoral, I would appreciate it, cause so far in my life, I have not heard of ONE convincing argument.

I am a conservative who remembers that being a conservative once meant staying out of people's bedrooms--guess those days are gone.

And boy oh boy, what incite and humor to call gay men "girly men"!! WOW! What a writer! Such intellect! As if gay men do not and have not contributed to the military. Ever heard of the gay British code breaker who helped us win WW2? Probably not I'm guessing.

And speaking of the idea that allowing gays to serve openly in the military will lead to the sky falling down, please, can someone educate me as to the "devastation" suffered in the British and Israeli armies when they allowed gays to serve openly?

The only "girly men" I can see in this debate are the homophobes getting their panties in a bunch cause they are more scared of gays than they are of terrorists. Oh, and by the way, lets fire even more gay linguists who helped to interpret for our troops in Iraq--guess that's not immoral???

Shame
Pace is calling thousands of his own troops "immoral". People who, unlike him, are putting their lives on the line and dodging bullets. Well, they don't need to be worried about the insurgents...their own military leadership in DC is stabbing them right in the back. So sad. It makes you want all the gays in the military to up and leave..cut em off at the knees and leave the situation over there even more dire. Such a shame the military leaders degrade their own brave troops..no wonder the military is often completely useless and laughable.

Morality ,God's Law
What part of Thou Shalt Not Kill do these so-called real men not understand. How do you protect and provide for women and children by dropping bombs with depleted uranium on them?

context
Sam, the actual translation is "Thou shall not Murder", there's a world of difference between murder and kill.

Context is needed here. Pace compared the immorality of homosexual ACTS to the immoralality of adultery. He didn't say that homosexuals are immoral. He said the act was.

To BrianR
You don't understand. Real men can't spell. Correct spelling is a sign of girlieness.

Do Real Men Beat Up Gays?
I wonder how many guys in the military, hearing Pace's comments, will feel that they now have implied Command permission to get drunk some night and beat up a hasn't-been-asked-hasn't-told gay comrade at arms for being "immoral"? Last night on TV I saw a list of 25 countries that allow (admitted)gays in their military. We don't, so what are we saying? That our straight soldiers are too immature or too horny to deal with the presence of gays? That we are the only moral nation on earth? No wonder the whole world laughs at us. Pace is supposed to be a leader, not only of the straight military but of the gay military (who die just as dead when they get hit by a roadside bomb). I found Pace's comments reprehensible. First we tell gays "You can give your life for your country but you are too vile to let us see who you really are". Then next we tell them "You have to keep your life a secret but the guy next to you, who happens to be a convicted fire-setting housebreaking embezzling rapist, is morally better than you so he gets to be perfectly open". Then, to top it all off, the general tells gays that they are immoral. The very kindest thing to be said about Pace is that he was cruel to some of the men in his command. And I don't happen to think that cruelty is evidence of manliness.

Hit a soft spot eh?
Well why does the generals' opinion regarding homosexual acts as being immoral get such a heated reaction?

These angry responses are quite a telling re: a simple statement of belief. Whenever I get that response in a discussion or debate I know there is an attempt to avoid facing reality.

So there is a belief that a man who is sexually attracted to men is no problem in the close quarters of military unit?

And that to say Pace's opinion is 'hateful' etc is an 'argument'?

And '...give me one good reason why it's immoral'.....how about hygiene guys? Will that do? Diseases.... a multitude of STD's, AIDS being one of the nasties.

Immoral acts in general are considered as such regarding their negative consequences to the individual or society. That is why, in part, one could hold the opinion that homosexual acts are immoral. Same with promiscuous heterosexual acts.

But I surmise there's no use in attempting rational thought here. Spew away gang and have a nice day.

Me love you long time.
McCullough writes: "As a married man a soldier may believe that adultery is ok. He may have no pang of conscience within him that restrains him from doing it. He may often in his mind greatly crave another OFFICER'S WIFE, and even contemplate how he would approach it. But the military has designated acting on such impulses as being unallowable."

McCullough's comparison to adultery is ridiculous, of course. At every port in the world where the Navy sets anchor there is a house full of willing prostitutes.
The Navy may discourage "immoral" acts between US sailors and these women, but it in no way takes any real steps to stop them - even when the sailors are married and such acts are adulterous.


Immorality due to AIDS?
Oh, so now that the Biblical justifications against homosexuality have been shown to be without merit, the NEW argument for homosexuality being immoral is AIDS? WOW!! The arguements just keep getting more and more DESPERATE...not all gay people have AIDS in case ya did'nt know it bigots, and if this is the litmus test on morality, then let's test ALL the soldiers in our forces for AIDS and then respond consistently, not selectively by discharging ONLY gay soldiers.(Highest rate of increase in AIDS in USA is amongst black women by the way...should we kick black women out of the military too?) What is your next argument gonna be? Can't wait to hear it. And why has noone explained the "DISASTERS" that have occurred in the British and Israeli armies after they allowed gays to serve openly?

Can you THINK brian???
Avoiding behavior that has a higher risk of getting AIDS is 'DESPARATE'????

'Not all gay people have AIDS'....
And Not all smokers get lung cancer....Therefore?
What? Smoke? Duh....go figure, brian...

Do those black women who get AIDS have a risk by having dark(er) skin?....hmmmm I wonder what might be some reasons ????? Ask the CDC or .....You Guess. Perhaps bigotry or homophobia?

Also, you can look forward to the 'British and Israeli' armies for your defense needs. Good luck there...Gaaaaaaaaaaaa..

Where is common sense anyway. Gone for awhile I suppose, killed on the PC alter of don't think just spew.

Pace vs. McGreevey
K’s feeble attempt to draw a comparison between two totally unrelated stories falls.... well, er, uh.... limp.

Context People...
For those of you who hate KMC's very guts - it would make your case better if you at least were intellectually honest about the context of this column AND of the general's direct quotes.

Homosexuality (as in a mindset, state of being, something in someone's brain that makes them think they are a certain way) is not what the General criticized. He commented specifically on ACTS/BEHAVIOR. Why did he comment on them specifically? Because the DontAskDontTell Repeal morons want soldiers having sex in the barracks with no recriminations from higher ups. (Hence KMC's explanation of "open service".)

And KMC's comparison to adultery is not only thorough but quite on point. WHY? Because it deals with BEHAVIOR. And remember Pace was addressing the issue of BEHAVIOR.

Everyone gives up something to serve their country. Their own personal freedom, time-off, what have you... Demanding that the soldiers who stand at the ready to defend us from evil be forced to comport to regulated behavior - IS WISE.

And if they truly feel that engaging in such behavior is personally more important to them - than the sacrifice of putting it aside for the length of time they serve - then they can always change what they choose to do.

But at least use HONEST context when throwing your spittle-laced tantrums against KMC. It makes for a much more vibrant debate...

To TH editors...
Please could we have another "flag" for indicating a post is "stupid" or "without merit"?

the difference between muscle and meat.
ANTIteenmommas writes: Kev, the self-proclaimed meathead
It's too precious to pass up that Kevin named his book "Musclehead Revolution." Does he not realize that he is calling himself a MEATHEAD

Here's a flash for you ANTI: Muscle is living tissue = strength.Meat is dead muscle tissue = food. Remember your Archie Bunker,meathead means dead from the neck up AKA liberals,They lack a functioning brain.
,.too precious to pass up indeed.

The last line...
Mr. McCullough finishes his silly, adolescent article with:

"I do know that clarity and contentment in my own life".

A bit pompous, don't you think. I could just see you balooning in your own squeaky-clean self importance. Sheesh!

To celtic-dragon
I wil be plain and honest with you, celtic-dragon: General Pace is a great American, a great Marine and a real man.

To write, as you did at 1:48 AM, that General Pace is "a filty bag of excrement" is sick garbage on your part. America is strong and free because of Americans like General Pace; America's future is threatened by lefty sick garbage such as what you wrote about General Pace.

To write, as you did, that General Pace insulted his troops with the comment that homosexuality is immmoral is stupid and bizarre. You don't know the troops, so don't pretend you do. They weren't insulted.

Given youur attack on General Pace, you are obviously the filty bag of excrement and to h**l with you.

To LetsAllRelax
Your 8:00 AM post reflects Mr. McCullough's point about liberals being made uncomfortable by real men. You come off the as the silly adolescent. General Pace, about whom Mr. McCullough writes, is the opposite of silly and adolescent. General Pace is a great American, a great Marine and a real man.

Dear Mr. Byler
I never commented either for or against General Pace's statement. I commented on Mr. McCullough's boring puffed-up pompousness. Oh, and I know liberals who can be just as pompous and just as boring.

Danaigh dude is desperate
Dani--re read my post--what was described as desperate was your linking of AIDS to homosexuality being immoral--not changing your behavior to avoid an illness--you are an idiot for not getting my point that there are no rational arguments for describing homosexuality as "immoral" which you were trying to do without any success.

Homosexuality is immoral because some gay people get AIDS? By your twisted logic, heterosexuality is immoral because some heteros get AIDS!

Is this the best you can come up with to argue that homosexuality is immoral? PATHETIC.

Poor, pathetic Phil
I can't take your whining seriously, because you haven't a clue who you are even talking to.

"America's future is threatened by lefty sick garbage such as what you wrote about General Pace."

I'm a Republican, boy-genius, and have been for over twenty years. I support virtually every piece of legislation that raises pay, benefits, or buys the coolest d*mned weapons that we invent. I love seeing terrorist caves get smoked by thermobaric munitions. Go take another hit of that bong you have sucking on, chowderhead...

"To write, as you did, that General Pace insulted his troops with the comment that homosexuality is immmoral is stupid and bizarre. You don't know the troops, so don't pretend you do. They weren't insulted. "

You shoot...and miss again! Whatta performance!

News to you, oh clueless wonder: I served in the Army at the end of the first Gulf War. There are about 60,000 (give or take) gay/lesbian soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines. Yeah, I think some of them might have been a little insulted that the CJCS considers the same as adulterers (adultery is a criminal offense under the UCMJ), even if they are abiding by militey law under "Dont ask..." and remaining celibate.


You are the one who hates honorable American men and women who are putting their lives on the line to defend your worthless hide. If you are actually serving as of now, they are watching your back!!! What is your major malfunction?

OTHER GIRLIE MEN
Kevin McCullough states, "The point being that real man would never leave the protection and provision of the wife he swore an oath before God to." Fascinating. I assume this makes any man whom engages in this "abomination" a "girlie man".

Well, allow me to list a few girlie men.

1. Rush Limbaugh
2. Ronald Reagan
3. Newt Gingrich (possible republican presidential candidate).
4. Rudy Guliani (republican presidential candidate).
5. John McCain (republican presidential candidate).
6. Fred Thompson (possible republican presidential candidate).
7. Conservative stalwart Strom Thurmond (God rest his soul).

I can go on, but you get the picture.


P. S. It's funny (or ironic) that none of the potential democratic nominees (Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, Al Gore, and John Edwards) has ever been divorced. Hhhhhmmmmmm.

P. S. S. I intentionally didn't list John Kerry and Dennis Kucinich as Democratic presidential potentials because that would have weakened my argument. (Smile)

"Pay Attention"
Once again we find ourselves postulating profusely about a statement taken out of context.

General Pace rightly proclaimed that engaging in the ACT is immoral, as is any such conduct outside of the marriage vow between a man and a woman.

Opinions are only offensive when one is inclined to be offended, and some of us take offense far beyond the world of reality to the realm of stupidity.

Frankly, I don't much care what any of us have to say including myself.




To all the liberals who blasted KMC...
I just read KMC's column - then I looked to see how the libs would blast him.

And blast they did.

Hey, these posters couldn't even argue intelligently.

Bottom line - there are those who want to do as they please, with no accountability to God. Consequences be damned.

Liberal friends, Kevin didn't write the Bible. If you want to take issue, take it up with God.

I wouldn't want to be you standing before God.

Hang-tyme...
Ronald Reagan is a "girly-man"?

That is the most pathetic thing I have ever heard.

Sam et al
I suppose the use of "depleted uranium" and "Thou shall not kill" was supposed to make us think evil of the troops. Dropping radioactive bombs. Wrong
"The Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC) defines depleted uranium as uranium with a percentage of the 235U isotope that is less than 0.711% by weight " It is used because it is dense.

The commandment is better translated:Thou shalt not murder.

Human Weakness Personified
To Other Girlie Men:

With all due respect, you should take Hillary off your list as she only stays with the human cesspool for political expediency. By the way, please don't attempt to tell me William J. has repented, and no longer seeks to satisfy his equally deplorable lust of the flesh.

As for J. F. K., and the mentally impoverished Dennis the Menace, your whole point was lost by simply mentioning the names of these two stalwart supporters of self indulgence.

Oh, and, by the way once again, you failed to mention the name of Mitt Romney. Certainly, his name must have crossed your mind.

As a side bar, there are 2 things which I find equally "girley" in nature, and that is the word "vegies" and silly smiling faces.

The "ACT" is immoral? Ah--no....
Still waiting for a logical explanation for why homosexuality is immoral...cause my Bible says so? Dumb argument as the Bible says alot of crap like it's an abomination to eat shellfish. The Bible also justifies slavery, the subjugation of women, death for swearing at one's parents, etc. etc. So citing the Bible to say homosexuality is immoral does'nt cut it. Homosexuality is immoral cause gay people get AIDS? Fine, but be sure to take a trip to Africa to tell the MILLIONS of heterosexuals there that have AIDS that heterosexuality is immoral too.

General Pace is immoral for attacking thousands of American gay troops who are putting their lives on the line in the service of our country--he is a disgrace to our nation, and to the army and should be fired.

Celtic-Dragon
Is that really you? I've never seen you go after a blogger the way you went after Phil. I'm not saying it wasn't warranted. It's just a change of pace for you.

LxLady
Goodness me! Fire, Brimstone and Rightiousness (with capitals, of course). Burn them, burn them!
How I and Everyone Else is accountable in front of God is up to me and God and not arrogant religious (sic) nutters like you.
Those who profess to talk for God, being Christo or Islamio fanatics, make me gag.

General Pace
It appears there are plenty of panties in a bunch in response to Kevin's column. What is it about the term "girlie men" that upsets so many? Perhaps the gang who never sleeps, GLAD, can enlighten their unwashed brethern. Swing away.

RxLady
I guess we meet again. Read my post again. I quoted Kevin straight from his column. As a matter of fact, I'll quote him again.

Kevin McCullough: "The point being that real man would never leave the protection and provision of the wife he swore an oath before God to."

Hang-tyme: True, Kevin didn't say divorced men were "girlie men". But he did say that divorced men aren't "real men".

Ronald Reagan was married to Jane Wyman (the actress), and I assume he took the oath before Almighty God to be with her until death. But as we all know, he divorced her.

Now Rx, I can only come to one of two conclusions
using the logic of Mr. McCullough.
1. Mr. McCullough (and you)applies standards for his adversaries that his heroes aren't required to live up to.
2. Ronald Reagan isn't a "real man".

Tell me Rx, which of the two are true.

Once again the irrational, hysterical
left raises it's opiated noggin. Thousands of years of ducumented history teahes us what the deviant, destructive lifestyle "choice" of homosexual activity brings into society.

Gen. Pace has it dead on. It's time to stop playing the political correctness card and denounce homosexual activity for what it is. A immoral act that disrupts civilization, promotes both a narcissistic and valueless society, negatively influences our youth in their formative years and increases your health risk at 1000 fold.

We need more men and women like Pace. People that are not afraid to understand that just because you hold a doctorate's degree and have determined that homosexuality behavior is "okay", doesn't mean that you have an ounce of wisdom.

Keep calling it for what it is General.

for you junior members of the PC police
"Don't ask, don't tell" simply put a name on the policy that has always existed. In Nam, almost all the medics were homosexual, but they served with honor, and as long as they kept to themselves, no one minded. They provided tender loving care to those of us they treated, which is a precious commodity in a combat zone.

During the remainder of my service in the reserves, only those who flagrantly exhibited their preferences received any sanctions, and deservedly so. The absolute necessity for unit cohesion trumps selfish sexual satisfaction, and that includes adultery.

Although there's no doubt a small minority of homophobes in the military, I'd say most of us don't give a shoot as long as a soldier does his job, maintains the honor and esprit de corps and covers our backsides, keeping their coveting of said backsides to themselves.

Pete Pace is a REAL MAN and my hero, unlike lefty stalinists who always seem to gravitate toward antihero types, girlymen like Algore and Jon F-ing Carey.

So True
McCullough spoke truth here: "When a real man speaks with plainness and honesty it sends shivers down the spines of those who oppose him, and in a sense reveals their weakness and inadequacies." The girly men and manly women don't do well with such clear-thinking, bold masculinity that Pace shows.
KLH
http://www.NeedNotFret.com

michaelogic101
Concerning Hillary, we can speculate until the cows come home (I'm a country boy) as to why Hillary stays with Bill, but we know one thing for sure. She's still upholding the vows she took before God (you know, until death do us part, for better or for worse, in sickness and in health) when she married BILL.

As for BILL CLINTON, I don't know if he has repented. But without knowing BIll personally, I will go out on limb and say that until the kingdom of heaven goes through michaelogic 101, BILL (and all other Christians) will continue professing his sins and seeking forgiveness through Jesus Christ. I don't recall anywhere in the bible which stated that michaelogic 101 needs to witness these professions.

Concerning J.F.K. and Dennis K., I only mentioned them to say that I intentionally didn't mention them. It's O.K. though. I know you were so busy trying to find fault that you didn't take time to comprehend what you were reading.

Now I could have mentioned Mitt Romney, but he's a Mormon. To conservatives, that worse than divorce. I was simply saving the right-wingers further embarrassment.

And by condemning smiling faces, you've certainly shown what a MANLY-man you are. Nice talking to you tough guy.

NeedNotFret..
"When a real man speaks with plainness and honesty it sends shivers down the spines of those who oppose him,..."

Oooooo my hero! You are soooo sexy. So... masculine. More, more.Don't stop!

What utter cr*p.

How to Post as a Lefty
1-Scan article {disconnect common sense)
2-Get a feeling (disconnect reason)
3-Recall PC approved talking points on subject.
(disconnect independent thought)
4-Cite material that seems relevant, but serves to divert from the subject. (disconnect debate)
5-Spew (disconnect reality)

I think Mr. McCullough cleverly anticipated what the responses to his article would look like.

Real Men Don't Always Become Lemmings
and jump on the anti gay bandwagon. I agree w/ Paces comments, but I sure would have liked to see him address the huge number of wives divorcing men who are away serving, getting child support awards w/out him even there for the trail, and then watching him get arrested as a criminal for not paying what he sometimes doesnt even have income to pay.

Im a broken record, and so are you "Christians" who cannot wait to write about bad bad gays over and over while looking the other way for divorce.

To LetsAllRelax
I know what fires your furnace honey, a nasty pair of yellow toenails sticking out a pair of Birkenstocks, Yellow/White ponytail, and a placard.

Divorce
Hillary is divorced in the sense that she doesn't really cohabit with her husband, and he is still famous for his affairs, the latest supposedly with a wealthy Canadian blond. People live apart all the time without divorce. On the other hand, I don't know what Osmama Obama's or Hill's marriages have to do with General Pace. Lefties get all bent out of shape if anyone uses the term "moral." They don't want anything to moral or immoral, so they can live without limits or discipline. What the real objection in many of these posts here is someone said something Leftists want they can't have. They can't have overt homosexualtiy in the active services. They don't like not getting what they went.

danaigh, your post of 5:10 a.m.
---And '...give me one good reason why it's immoral'.....how about hygiene guys? Will that do? Diseases.... a multitude of STD's, AIDS being one of the nasties.---


Martha writes:

Hygiene? Huh?

Do you even know any gay guys? Have you read any information about gay sex or do you get all your info from porn sites and the Heritage Foundation?

I just don't understand this obsession with one part of the human body. There's such a massively misinformed public related to this issue.

Somebody help me out. Don't people know that most gay men don't do it that way?

Off topic, and perhaps a little impolite, but this misinformation is getting old. And, by the way, the last I read, the population with the fastest growing incidence of HIV was 18-25 year old women.

Martha




Real men don't suck up to perverts
There are many Republicans as well as Democrats who kowtow to misandrist feminism. The VAWA passed Congress with almost unanamous anti-men, anti-family support for feminsit hate. Hitllary and Obama are both immoral scum, but then so are the Repbulicans like Bush and McGain.

Bob
Catch more of Bob at http://bobstruth.blogspot.com

Conservatives debating sodomy…

‘Forever, O Lord, Your word is settled in heaven…For what is your life? It is even a vapor that appears for a little time and then vanishes away.’ [Psalm 119; James 4]


Such is the contrast given in the Bible between the Infinite God and finite man. Will the creature bow to the Word of his Creator or will he continue in his original sin and in his naturalism?

What do we say to a culture of ‘conservatives’ and professing Christians who debate whether sodomy is immoral? We expect the modern liberal to reject the authority of Scripture because they would exchange our liberty for tyranny.

Is not conservatism an advocate for the founding principles? What do you think was the foundation for those principles?

They did not originate from the mind of men nor will they be sustained by the mind of men. To tear down the authority of Scripture is to destroy the foundation on which conservatism rests.

You who advocate sodomy do you not know that you mock the cross and the Spirit of God in your unbelief?

The evil one uses gross ignorance of the Old Covenant judicial and ceremonial laws to undermine the moral Law. The Law was declared righteous and eternal at the cross. It was there that Christ fulfilled the judicial and ceremonial laws associated with Old Testament Israel. The New Covenant has come in Christ for all men, both Jew and Gentile.

Everyone knows the Law because their conscience bears witness. This is what the apostle means in Romans 1 that men are without excuse since they suppress the truth in unrighteousness.

This thread leaves no doubt as to the validity of the Biblical doctrine of the depravity of men. The sodomites and their supports have fulfilled the Scripture in our hearing…

‘…knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.’ [Romans 1:32]

And again, ‘Unless the Lord of Hosts had left us a seed, we would have become like Sodom, and we would have been made like Gomorrah.’ [Isaiah 1:9]




the real, real men

NeedNotFret:
"When a real man speaks with plainness and honesty it sends shivers down the spines of those who oppose him,..."

LetsAllRelax:
Oooooo my hero! You are soooo sexy. So... masculine. More, more.Don't stop!

Martha:
Actually, I agree that when a real man speaks with plainness and honesty it sends shivers. I just don't think it sends shivers of fear. The real man I'm married to is gentle, highly intelligent, nurturing, not the least threatened by strong women, homosexuality, or any of a whole host of other issues that seem to make other "real" men's blood go cold -- and he'd probably beat the cr** out of anyone who'd try to hurt me.

You can have it all. :)

If my memory
serves me correctly, General Pace stated that the "behavior" was immoral, just as adultery is immoral. He did not condemn homosexuality or those serving in the military, just the behavior.

It would seem that reason and what General Pace actually said are being twisted to mean he hates gays.

Is it me?
Hang-tyme writes: Sunday, March, 18, 2007 9:05 AM
"Celtic-Dragon
Is that really you? I've never seen you go after a blogger the way you went after Phil. I'm not saying it wasn't warranted. It's just a change of pace for you."

Yep, it's me. I generally don't waste my time with ad hominum battles, because they never accomplish anything. I'll blame it on the all the Guinness I had last night! ;-)

Hold on there
...Celtic dragon.

"Peter Pace is entitled to any opinion he can devise. That is a fundamental right. However, by expressing his opinion as a leader, and impugning the character of thousands of honorable gay men and women who serve under 'don't ask, don't tell' in a time of war, he has disgaced his position. Want me to be plainer still? He is a filthy bag of human excrement for insulting his own troops. The h*ll with him."

Your absolutes are showing, shipmate.

hey peppermint
****General Peter Pace, chairman of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff, on Tuesday attempted to deflect criticism of his comments that homosexuality was "immoral" by saying his remarks reflected only his personal opinion.

Gen Pace stirred controversy by telling the Chicago Tribune that the military should not condone immoral acts, such as homosexual relations.

"I believe that homosexual acts between individuals are immoral and that we should not condone immoral acts," Gen Pace said in an interview with the paper.*****

Source MSNBC

You are partially correct, in that he made some initial disticntion between acts and orientation, but then went on to confuse the two with a blanket statement about how gays should never be able to be open. Funny how single soldiers who nail every girl they can find are open, though.

Real Men
While fundamentally conservative, I've also led large organizations with a high percentage of gay employees. While General Pace is entitled to his opinions he's also required to observe his leadership accountabilities. Sometimes your personal opinion and your leadership accountabilities clash. When that happens you've got to go with the demands of leadership. General Pace is a senior leader for ALL of the armed forces, gay and straight alike, men and women, large and small. Leadership at General Pace's level is demanding and exhausting but it is also critical.

both sides exaggerate
Peppermint writes:
If my memory
serves me correctly, General Pace stated that the "behavior" was immoral, just as adultery is immoral. He did not condemn homosexuality or those serving in the military, just the behavior.

It would seem that reason and what General Pace actually said are being twisted to mean he hates gays.

Martha writes:
I actually agree that his statement is being twisted unnecessarily. I would rather not pay so much attention to what General Pace said -- just as soon ignore it and move forward.

What's interesting is that, when a leader does say something like this, and a liberal complains, a lot of conservatives cry "foul" and "hypocrisy," reminding libs of their love for free speech.

Free speech goes both ways. He can say what he said. He can also be denounced for it. And, if he holds a particular position in a company that has a conflicting policy, he can be fired. I don't think he crossed a big line. I just think the argument that social libs shouldn't complain is ludicrous.

The other thing that's interesting is that, when a leader says something like this, people come out of the woodwork to support him for Telling the Truth. They also have a lot of graphic, misinformed, and paranoid statements to make, many of which do sound pretty hateful. I'm sorry, but a lot of people on this site are just plain scared to death of people who are gay.

I find that very, very strange.

Martha
p.s. FWIW, you'll find conservative opinions to the contrary (as far as what Gen. Pace actually believes about whether or not gay people should serve in the military) on other fora on this subject. Many think he would say more if not muzzled.

dyerje
"Your absolutes are showing, shipmate."

Huh? I have explained until blue in the face that there is no presumption of free speech in the military. Senators Brownback and Santorum have said far worse things, and we ignore them because they don't really matter outside of one Senate vote. Private opions are just that, and they were duly elected. I still think they are loathsome individuals, but I love free speech much more then I despise either of them.

Pace is in a different catagory, for he is the top uniform service member in our nation. He is not elected, but is nominated by the CinC and confirmed. He represents the thousands and thousands of servicemen and women who are defending you and me RIGHT NOW in the middle of a war against Islamist facism...and he just impugned the integrity and proffesional military bearing of about 60,000 of those brave servicemen and women. He is not a leader...he is a charlatan. If you really despise your own troops so much as too actually mention it in an interview (he watered it down a bit, but the rancour shows), then you have no business leading them in war. Sorry if that is too absolutist for ya.

Del
Nicely said, and better then I just did.

correction
"Both sides exaggerate" equivocates too much. Change that to, "It's not what he said, it's what followed."

Martha
It's very rare that I play cheerleader, but YOU GO GIRL.

Celtic
"You are partially correct, in that he made some initial disticntion between acts and orientation, but then went on to confuse the two with a blanket statement about how gays should never be able to be open. Funny how single soldiers who nail every girl they can find are open, though."

I don't think it's immoral about "nailing every girl" either.

About the "open policy", Celt, I don't know what to think about that. I don't have an opinion on that one. Do you think it would be better? I like you so I'm not being flip here. I want to know what your opinion is on that.

Whoops
Correction: I meant to say I think "nailing every girl" is immoral too.

Adding Apples and Pears
One thing that keeps me fascinated with townhall is that so many conservatives who post on it can't think straight but instead twist logic into interesting pretzels. The issue here isn't whether or not homosexuality is wrong or whether Pace or anybody else thinks it is or whether the Bible says it is---it is whether a commander should insult his own men. Pace himself apologized for having let his personal beliefs interfere with his duty as a commander. Is something about this hard to grasp? 1) Pace is the leader of both straights and gays. 2) He as much as told the gays under his command that they are no good. 3) That is an inappropriate statement for a commander to make---it's as if he'd said "All of my Christian men are going to heaven but all of my Jewish men are going to hell" or "All of the blacks in my command are stupid and all of the whites are smart". He can think what he wants, but, as a commander, he can't say such things. (Now somebody will start screaming "PC again!". But do conservatives advocate unkindness, tactlessness, cruelty? And if they do, why?)

lilly
How is saying that acts of sex, whether it is between homosexuals or heterosexuals (committing fornication/adultery) insulting anyone. Are not these acts immoral in the military. Is that not the military code while serving?

Are not the military personnel aware of these rules when they enlist and serve?

Peppermint
"It's good to know
there are still "real" men in this country, like General Pace."
-----------------

Ooo-ooo-ooo! Any maybe, in his off hours, he looks for men who don't look right so he can fire them, beat them up, post homophobic ignorant rants on appropriate websites, and hang out in bars looking for males who are nice to other males.

A "Real" man!! I'm about to swoon! I need to leave so I can post his photos all over my bedroom wall! (I'll just tell my husband it's only political)

Jo
Oh for goodness sake. Your comment is silly. General Pace doesn't go around beating up homosexuals in his spare time. If he did he would have been prosecuted a long time ago. God only knows the left would be screaming to have him beheaded in the public square if that were the case.

Have you lost all of your sense of reasoning?

Let me qualify something
for you right wing bashers on this thread. To me a real man is someone, whether he is heterosexual or homosexual, who does live by a moral code. A man who loves, respects, and honors his partner and family.
To me that is a real man. It takes strength to do that especially in today's society that over sexualizes every thing promoting any kind of sexual behavior as if it is all right. And that includes teen sex, infidelity, etc.

I, for one do not condone gay bashing and that was never the intent of any of my comments.

In my opinion I did not see General Pace's comments as gay bashing, but a statement about immorality as it pertains to the military code.

hang-tyme
Flattery will get you everywhere. Just when I was about to sign off, you feed my ego and make me more addicted...

Thanks, backatcha.

Taking It On the Chin

Kevin McCullogh wrote:

> Real men take it on the chin sometimes.


They should open their mouths wider, then.

[rim shot]


-CB-

Real Men?
Since when does a "real man" start worrying about what adults do in their bedrooms? The whole thing reminds me of the time when the military was trying to keep women out of the military. The arguments are even the same.

Creighton Beryll
Uncalled for, yet very funny. I won't be the one to do it, but that post will have a blog-life of roughly 30 minutes. It will be flagged for sure.

ANTIteenmommas

ANTIteenmommas writes:

> Pace is allowed to hold a hate-filled viewpoint that
> gay sex is immoral.

Now hold on here. Hate has nothing to do with believing
something to be immoral. It's possible that someone may
hate those they believe to be guilty of immoral acts, but
it's hardly a foregone conclusion -- and you have no reason
to suspect that Gen. pace is such a person. Stop trying to
demonize those with whom you disagree.


> As a private citizen, he could make such a statement, but
> as a representative of the military, he committed an un-
> thinkable crime-shame on pace.

Please site where it's codified that expressing such an
opinion is a crime.


> His medals should be rescinded

That's petty and vindictive. His medals have nothing to do
with homosexuality or his opinion of it, one way or another.


> and he should be forced to volunteer his time to work with
> gay youths to combat the very discrimination he supports.

You'd like to see him sent to sensitivity training, essentially.
Or perhaps "re-education camp" is a more apt term. You know,
like the ones the North Vietnamese sent those wrong-thinking
former members of the South Vietnamese Army to when they over-
ran their country. You leftists are all alike.


-CB-


danaigh

danaigh writes:

> And '...give me one good reason why it's immoral'.....how
> about hygiene guys? Will that do? Diseases.... a multitude
> of STD's, AIDS being one of the nasties.

So you're one of those people who believe that gays are walking
bags of disease. How quaint. In any case, what's that got to
do with morality?


> Immoral acts in general are considered as such regarding their
> negative consequences to the individual or society. That is why,
> in part, one could hold the opinion that homosexual acts are
> immoral.

B-but...how could a homosexual soldier pass any infections along
to his heterosexual fellow soldiers?


-CB-


critiques..
"Their "naval"? As in, what, aircraft carriers?

Could he have meant "navel"? As in belly-button?


I mean, c'mon, if you're going to put someone down, you've got to get the metaphor correct, or it becomes silly."


Or rude..

Reason

Reason reasons:

> Please. Morality is not the issue.


Quite so. It's a matter of personal revulsion dressed up
in the clothes of pseudo-morality.


-CB-

Real Men
What I've never been able to understand is why it seems necessary for the sexual satisfaction of the gay community that the whole rest of the world be made aware of their activities.

I don't really care if Joe Schmoe has sex with his espresso machine, but why does he have to have me know all about it?

lilly

lilly writes:

> Pace or anybody else thinks it is or whether the Bible says
> it is---it is whether a commander should insult his own men.


It's a sign of these oh-so-sensitive times that merely expressing
an opinion, one's position on an abstract matter of principle, can
be taken as an insult to specific individuals.

Talk about "twist[ing] logic into interesting pretzels"... This
is all the richer when one stops to consider how fonf _liberals_
are of accusing conservatives of "feeling threatened."


-CB-

GlenninVirginia
It dates back to the bohemian/beatnik days. Anything to upset/shock the "establishment".

And since we don't punish people anymore for the sake of political correctness, it just keeps festering.

Saw a man wearing a DRESS at SF airport a few years back. His 5 o'clock shadow poking through his pancake made me laugh. I wonder if he realized how stupid he looked.

GlenninVirginia

> What I've never been able to understand is why it seems
> necessary for the sexual satisfaction of the gay community
> that the whole rest of the world be made aware of their
> activities.


Well, in this context at least, it isn't gays who've made an
issue of their sexuality. It's the powers that be in the
military who have.


-CB-

lilly
Believe me, they sicken the rest of us in the Marine Corps as well.

What I cannot understand is people wanting gays to serve openly or even being able to serve under the current policy.

This means that you are asking US, the US citizens in the finest shape and in the lowest-risk to diseases, to serve with the most risky group in the world.

When someone is bleeding on the battlefield or in garrison, are we being forced to expose ourselves and our families to HIV for the sake of political correctness?

GunnyG

GunnyG writes:

> Saw a man wearing a DRESS at SF airport a few years back.
> His 5 o'clock shadow poking through his pancake made me
> laugh. I wonder if he realized how stupid he looked.


Several years ago there was an incident reported in the San
Francisco Chronicle about a man who'd been beaten up for
wearing a dress in public. I pointed out in a local online
forum (the Usenet newsgroup ba.general) how in its story, the
oh-so-PC Chronicle had averted its gaze from the proverbial
elephant in the living room: What was a man doing wearing a
dress in the first place?

The howls of outrage were palpable. "And what's wrong with a
man wearing a dress," people demanded? "Uh, they're for *women,*
I replied. Which only added fuel to the fire.

Ahh, liberals...they're so openminded that their
brains have fallen out.


-CB-

General Washington: Real Man
Some historical perspective on sodomy in the U. S. military:

George Washington, March 14, 1778, General Orders
Head Quarters, V. Forge, Saturday, March 14, 1778.

"At a General Court Martial whereof Colo. Tupper was President (10th March 1778) Lieutt. Enslin (Note 28) of Colo. Malcom's Regiment tried for attempting to commit SODOMY, with John Monhort a soldier; Secondly, For Perjury in swearing to false Accounts, found guilty of the charges exhibited against him, being breaches of 5th. Article 18th. Section of the Articles of War and do sentence him to be dismiss'd the service with Infamy. His Excellency the Commander in Chief approves the sentence and with Abhorrence and Detestation of such Infamous Crimes orders Lieutt. Enslin to be drummed out of Camp tomorrow morning by all the Drummers and Fifers in the Army never to return; The Drummers and Fifers to attend on the Grand Parade at Guard mounting for that Purpose." (Emphasis in original.)

Note 28: Lieut. Frederick Gotthold Enslin.

http://www.theamericanview.com/index.php?id=761

Image of actual document:

http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?collId=mgw3&fileName=mgw3g/gwpage003.db&recNum=104

GunnyG

GunnyG writes:

> When someone is bleeding on the battlefield or in garrison,
> are we being forced to expose ourselves and our families to
> HIV for the sake of political correctness?


Gunny, you remind me of the Texas politician Molly Ivins (RIP)
mentioned in one of her books who visited San Francisco, and
wore a shower cap on each foot when he took a shower in his
hotel room because he was terrified of catching AIDS. Which
was all the more ridiculous when you consider that hotels are
generally used by out-of-towners, not locals.

There are two misconceptions that many straights just can't
seem to shake: that all gays engage in anal sex, and that all
gays are HIV positive. I respectfully suggest that as a man
in a position of leadership, and therefore as an opinion leader
to those under your command, you owe it to yourself to do some
reading and expand your intellectual horizons regarding this
general topic.

It seems to me that in a battlefield situation, catching HIV
would be the least of someone's worries.



-CB-


Creighton Beryll
No, I beg to differ. That's what "don't ask, don't tell" is all about - keeping the "privates" private.

To conservativation...
I've never wore Birkenstocks in my life :-) and as for the pony-tail...man do you have fantasies. Whatever turns you on.

Seriously though... Celtic-Dragon, your 12:16 post is right-on.

Gunny-G
From one military vet to another, if you don't think gays should openly serve, that's fine. Personally, I could care less if the person serving next to me is homosexual. I'd rather he not be, but if he is, that doesn't change the scope of who I am.

It's your argument for excluding them that's not holding water. Before stepping on the battlefield, the blood of soldiers is already tested for blood type and HIV. I'm no longer in the military, but I'm sure before being shipped to a combat zone soldiers are retested and their status is updated.

If your concern is HIV and other diseases, bar those soldiers, both straight and gay, that are inflicted with the diseases from serving. Although it may be discriminatory, you may even allow hetero soldiers to refuse blood from openly gay soldiers.

And what if we're talking about lesbian soldiers. Lesbians are far less likely to contract HIV than heterosexuals.

I only write this because when I was in the military (particularly AIT), straight soldiers, including me, engaged in risky heterosexual behavior that could have exposed us to diseases.
You know, when I was in AIT at Fort Sill, Ok., I called myself sneaking into town to visit a massage parlor on the weekend that we received our first off post pass. I was careful to not let my fellow soldiers no that this was my destination because frankly, I was embarrassed that I would do this.

When I opened the door to the parlor I was both embarrassed and surprised. All we needed was the drill seargent to call our class into formation.

I'm just saying, I'm much too concerned with the plank in my eye to be worried about the splinter in someone else's.

celt, respectfully, get a grip..
celtic dragon said this:

"I certainly don't claim to be a "real man", whatever that is. I will, however, speak plainly and honestly:

Peter Pace is entitled to any opinion he can devise. That is a fundamental right. However, by expressing his opinion as a leader, and impugning the character of thousands of honorable gay men and women who serve under "don't ask, don't tell" in a time of war, he has disgaced his position. Want me to be plainer still? He is a filthy bag of human excrement for insulting his own troops. The h*ll with him."

Mr. Pace has done no such thing, when you refer to "impugning the character" of gays in our military.

The man made a true and honest statement about homosexuals behavior. He said it is immoral, and he is correct.

He has done nothing to "disgrace" anyone, nor our troops, because his statements were about the efficacy, and rightness, or not, of certain behaviors.

You began your post saying that you won't "claim" to be a "real man", so, with respect again, how would you know whence you speak?

Your coarse and demeaning words about an amazing human being, with a noteworthy character which is brave enough to call a spade a spade, are painful to read.

I consider, from this poster's comments, that they, as a transsexual, (I believe this person shared that fact here), are going to be in alignment with a homosexual's views.

Since both are confused, or, to some degree, more or less, living a life that is compromised, when it comes to Truth, and moral clarity, we will get replies like these.

There will be the pretension that folks like Mr. Pace are somehow "maligning" homosexuals in uniform, when what he is doing is speaking an outstanding moral truth.

The further down one is, or goes, in living a life of personal corruption, or having a lack of moral clarity therein, the easier it is to slander the just and the good.

Today we are speaking of a man amongst men, whose wish for decency, in life, and for others, is expressed by his brave, honest words.

When Mr. Pace does this, he not only strengthens those who are in agreement with him, he sends out a lifeline to those who are living a life that is morally bankrupt, or confused.

The more conviction a party in such sins has, the more they will have contempt for this man who speaks Truth.

My advice: Beware of calling good evil and evil good. Men of old have done the same, and paid the penalty before a living God who will judge the quick and the dead.


Hey, hang-tyme...
It is apparent to me that you do not understand the fallenness of mankind. The Bible calls it "sin." Every one of us is fallen.

God has a holy standard that none of us can live up to. That's where Jesus comes in.

Jesus told the woman caught in adultery that He didn't condemn her for her actions. But He went on to say, "Go, and sin no more."

Our lives are about redemption. We have all done stuff that is sinful. But, through Christ, we are forgiven (if we want to be, that is.).

Many people who don't believe in divorce are divorced. We also don't know the circumstances behind their divorces.

That's about all I will say...

Hey Letsallrelax....
I didn't write the Bible either...



celtic-dragon - it's a shame that
your opinion ended as it did. In one of the very few lucid responses of disagreement, you degenerated into a hypocritical name-caller. You say: "Peter Pace is entitled to any opinion he can devise. That is a fundamental right." You should have stopped there. The fact that he is a leader is irrelevant to his morals and values (although one hopes that leaders have high morals and values). He thought that a homosexual act was immoral - probably the same as his opinion on the act of adultery. If that "impugns the character of thousands of honorable gay men and women who serve under "don't ask, don't tell" in a time of war" that's TOUGH - they need to get over it. If other people can't handle that this is his opinion it is their own emotional short-coming and they need to grow up and realize that morals and values are not all monolithic. He has in no way disgaced his position. No where has he taken ANY actions other than putting the best man or woman in the positions that they are needed. Want me to be plainer still - quit being an emotional retard.

Girly man?
First off, it is heartening to see that for the most part, comments from both sides of the aisles have been reasoned and thoughtfull, not knee jerk reactions and name calling.

Second, I would ask McCullough if the first marine injured in Iraq, a man who lost his leg in the performance of his duties, a man who is admittedly gay, is a "girlie-man"?

RxLady
You didn't write the Bible either...
Neither did the Talaban write the Koran. But they just choose to interpret it in their strict, small-minded, intollerant, arrogant way. Are they right? They are convinced they are, just as you are.
You seem to forget you humility. Be humble under His sight and not judge for Him.

Mr. Peter Pace For President!
Peppermint wrote:

"Let me qualify something for you right wing bashers on this thread. To me a real man is someone, whether he is heterosexual or homosexual, who does live by a moral code. A man who loves, respects, and honors his partner and family. To me that is a real man. It takes strength to do that especially in today's society that over sexualizes every thing promoting any kind of sexual behavior as if it is all right. And that includes teen sex, infidelity, etc. I, for one do not condone gay bashing and that was never the intent of any of my comments. In my opinion I did not see General Pace's comments as gay bashing, but a statement about immorality as it pertains to the military code."


A homosexual cannot truly be a "real man" in this article's sense of the word. The reason being, participating in immoral acts is a compromise to a man's integrity, which is the heart of true manliness.

This is also not to say that, biologically speaking, they were not born, or made as men, in ,otherwise, most senses of the word. Nor is there the implication that God made homosexual men with an inability to change.

This is also not to say that there are not practicing homosexuals out there who are not, otherwise, fine and decent people. They may contribute to charities, support their extended families, and otherwise been kind souls, or well-meaning people. That is not what is being talked about here.

The distinction here is about the heart of a man or a woman, and how their participating in any morally compromised lifestyle will hurt, and diminish the purity and strength of their manhood, or womanhood.

I also don't think that Mr. Pace's comments were made strictly for or about a "military code".

As I understand, his comments were that homosexual acts, as adulterous ones, are immoral behaviors which should not be protected, nor promoted, because they are immoral things. The other suggestion, or comment, was that such immoral behavior can negatively effect one when they are trying to serve our country effectively.

But I do not believe that Mr. Pace's comments were in a vacuum. Nor that his comments were made strictly for the military, or from the purview of talking about gays in the military.

I won't deny that this society "sexualizes" "everything", but this is not thanks to the ma