Townhall.com, Where Your Opinion Counts
Talk Radio:   Bill Bennett   Mike Gallagher   Dennis Prager   Michael Medved   Hugh Hewitt   
BREAKING NEWS  LeftArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican   RightArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican  
Columns, funnies & more in your inbox!
  • Check the boxes and send us your email address to receveive your free newsletter
  • Your daily must-read of conservative columns, cartoons and news. Coulter, Sowell, Krauthammer and more.
  • Townhall.com’s weekly inside scoop on what’s happening behind the scenes in the world of politics. When news breaks, we report.
  • Signup to receive the latest daily Townhall cartoons
Sunday, December 10, 2006
Kevin McCullough :: Townhall.com Columnist
Why Would Gays Want Children?
by Kevin McCullough
Vote on It:
Average Vote:
[+] Text [-]
 
Poll
Will the Dems' health care Christmas Present to America be an improvement or detriment to our health care system?


Is there a more obvious product of heterosexual behavior than the creation of children? If so then isn't it somewhat peculiar that those who shun the behavior of heterosexuality so deeply crave the product that it brings?

This week as I read the news that Mary Cheney, the 37 year old daughter of the Vice-President, was pregnant, I had many such questions running through my head.

I'm not supposed to mind you.

I'm not supposed to be allowed to think such things.

I'm not supposed to openly wonder what such conclusions might mean. Such wondering might bash the belief structure that men and women are completely interchangeable with one another. Yet I wonder them nonetheless. (Call it an ever growing desire to know the truth of the matter.)

Let's face it in America today if we bring up such obvious inconsistencies we are immediately branded and labeled a bigot. I was repeatedly labeled such this week for asking six additional questions arising from the fake act of two women supposedly "becoming parents." Argue with me all you like - the truth is Mary Cheney's baby will share DNA with Mary and the male DNA donor. Genetically he/she will share nothing with Cheney's partner Heather Poe.

So here's the next item I'm not allowed to bring up... Two women who desire children can not achieve satisfaction, because their sexual union is incapable of producing it. And this is fully true - even if all parties involved have healthy, fully functional reproductive biology.

When I mentioned this earlier in the week homosexual bloggers like Andrew Sullivan took exception with the notion and accused me of being hypocritical of the issue when it comes to infertile couples. Yet it is the critics who are being inconsistent.

If a man and wife struggle with infertility, it is because of biological breakdown. What God designed to work a certain way short circuited. He has low sperm count. She doesn't produce eggs as she should. They have trouble getting the two together. The biological dysfunction is not voluntary, they attempt sexual intercourse, time and time again but because of the faulty genetics in the machinery they are unable to complete the conception. And should medicine ever develop a cure for whatever that specific breakdown might be - there will be no problem for the couple, through natural sexual engagement to have another child.

Not so with Cheney and her partner. If they were to choose to engage in sex acts a thousand times over, their biological machinery would never produce what is needed - but for a different reason. There is no dysfunction in this case. Instead the reason the sexual engagement does not work is because the necessary parts are not even present. It is the equivalent of screwing a nut onto a bolt, by using a hammer. They just don't fit.

So after a cacophony of naughty e-mails being sent to me describing thousands of positions a male participant or a turkey baster can be used to impregnate a woman who only has had sex with women, I'm supposed to be intimidated so as to no longer ask these questions.

But they're good questions.

And doesn't the sick attempt at humor reveal what the purpose of my questions was from the very beginning?

In normal relationships the privacy and intimacy of the act of procreation is a spiritual and beautiful thing. In the sexual acts of women who sleep together that adequacy will be something they always long for and never have the satisfaction of knowing, thus undermining the fidelity of what they believe their relationship to be.

In our culture we don't think about our actions from the viewpoint of the One who created us. Rather we obsess about our rights to do what we want, how we want, and as often as we want.

But children are never about what we want. Raising them is about supplying what they need. Britney Spears does no one a service when she gets pregnant on the cheap in a marriage that doesn't last only to end up not providing a father for her children while flashing her nether region for paparazzi. Like wise how moral is it for Mary Cheney to bring a child into society who from the outcome is told that her second mommy is the equivalent of a true father?

There is a reason for homosexual activists to have kids; it is part of the great deception that no one is to question. By having children in the picture the attempt to complete the circle and to convince the world that such a family unit is normal is all important.

Since we do not live in a theocracy it is unreasonable to maintain that Americans will not all make the same choice when it comes to morality and sexual behavior. However that reality has nothing whatsoever to do with whether sexual behavior should be considered moral that extends beyond moral boundaries.

And since homosexuals insist upon desiring limitless sexual activity, not governed by provincial rules and traditions, why would they want children?

Children are the undeniable product of the superiority of heterosexual engagement. And since homosexual behavior in large terms wishes to throw off the weight of conventional sexuality, I am curious as to why they would desire to reinforce the inferiority of their sexual behavior.

And no amount of hate-mail from small minded radical activists will stifle the curiosity from which I seek to learn.

Share:
Vote on It:
Average Vote:
 
About The Author
Kevin McCullough is the nationally syndicated host of "'Xtreme' Radio and columnist based in New York. He blogs at www.muscleheadrevolution.com. His second book "The Kind Of MAN Every Man SHOULD Be" is in stores now.

Be the first to read Kevin McCullough's column. Sign up today and receive Townhall.com delivered each morning to your inbox.

I have some thoughts on Masculinity
"Such wondering might bash the belief structure that men and women are completely interchangeable with one another. Yet I wonder them nonetheless. (Call it an ever growing desire to know the truth of the matter."

Men are men, and women can't be Dads. Sorry it's just that simple folks. Stop by my blog and check out the articles there on this subject. Just click my name and you're there.

Also check out
the article "Verbal Stink Bombs" in reference to Kevin's observation:

"Let's face it in America today if we bring up such obvious inconsistencies we are immediately branded and labeled a bigot."

Inconsistency?
"...the fake act of two women supposedly "becoming parents." Argue with me all you like - the truth is Mary Cheney's baby will share DNA with Mary and the male DNA donor. Genetically he/she will share nothing with Cheney's partner Heather Poe."

Would you make the same sort of argument against couples becoming adoptive parents?

Biology 101
sperm + egg = zygote
This is the essential equation of reprodution. Nothing any PC homo activist can say will alter this fact.This also disproves the theory that homosexuality is inherited. Individuals who inherit the "homo gene" rarely reproduce, so the gene which theoretically expresses itself as homosexuality would not be passed to future generations. Even if it were a recessive trait, the homo gene would disappear within a few generations, since it is effectively a lethal gene in a genetic sense, meaning that any individuals who expressed the gene would be unable to produce any offspring.

It is natural for women to desire
children. But is it right for Lesbians to deliberately have babies withour giving them a real daddy?

And was it advisable for Mary Cheney to do this while her father is still holding national office? What kind of example does it set for young women?

And does this completely ruin Lynn Cheney's chances of running for president (not that she would ever do that: it was my wish after hearing her go after Wolf Blitzer)?

If I had my choice between Lesbian couples having babies and Gay male couples having babies (perhaps through a surrogate) I would choose the Lesbians.

However, I really have a problem with either one. Children are not toys and they are not subjects to be experimanted on.

Leftists have a fantasy about a world where the abnormal can pretend to be normal, and think that they can force everyone to believe their drivel. But it is unfair to the children they are bringing into the world to make them guinea pigs in this grand experiment they are attempting.

Although Ms. Cheney is somewhat supportive of her father's career, how thoughtful can she be if she brings dishonor to her family in this way. It isn't like she was a wayward girl who got herself knocked up by mistake. This had to be deliberate and planned over some time.

I am really bothered that, if she absolutely had to do this, that she couldn't wait two more years.

The narcisism is breathtaking.

Steve- watch out for the Brave New World
The Frankenstein scientists who are so fond of fooling around with human DNA are probably going to try and figure out how to force the genetic material from two chicks into germinating.

I predict that this will be a future outrage for us to fight- and probably lose- as the Godless corporations keep placing profits above ethics.

My two cents
First some background, I am heterosexual, not metrosexual or somesexual or unknown sexual. I have been happily married (to a woman) for 25 years and have two children. I tend to be a rather rabid conservative, even more conservative than most Republicans. You know, anti-abortion, pro-military, anti feminist etc etc.

However, on the stance of homosexuals, I can't completely agree with the conservative take. Why do homosexuals want kids? For the same reason my wife and I wanted them. Why does my straight brother not want kids? I don't know, but as an american he has that right. I have a gay friend, a good friend, I've known him since high school. He and his 'partner' are fairly conservative, for two gay guys. He has two kids, both boys. They are straight as the day is long. They are good friends with my son, well raised, conservative and church going.

It's not like gay people want to induct kids into some kind of cult. Now I don't believe homosexuality is caused by a gene or some BS, I think it's a matter of choice and possibly upbringing. But, this friend of mine was raised in a two parent household, real "Father Knows Best" kind of stuff. All his siblings (five in all) are as straight as I am, spouses and kids, the whole nine yards. So how did my friend become gay? Beats me, but if he wants kids, I say go for it. After all, how many straight couples do we read about every day that abuse, torture and murder thier own children? Being straight sure as heck doesn't make one a good parent. Therefore, by logical deduction (not liberal mamby-pamby feelings) we have to assume being gay does not make one a bad parent.

Biology 101
"Even if it were a recessive trait, the homo gene would disappear within a few generations, since it is effectively a lethal gene in a genetic sense, meaning that any individuals who expressed the gene would be unable to produce any offspring."


So Tay-Sachs, a lethal genetic disorder that destroys the nervous system and kills its' victems by age 5 doesn't really exsist, hmm? According to you, it should have been bred out since it is lethal. WRONG!!! Go back to school and retake biology. A single gene recessive defect can still be carried and NOT expressed in half of the offspring where both parents carry the defect. Homosexuality is almost certainly NOT a single gene trait, but a combination of several genes, and may well be influenced by in-utero hormones...which would mean the trait is perpetuated unless science can isolate AND influence the myriad combinations that would arise from a multiple gene problem. Try figuring out a 6 trait Punnent square (just for fun!)
That is why we still can't breed sweet acorns, although very smart biologists have been trying for decades. In a almond tree, the tannin (and cyanide content) is controlled by a SINGLE gene, and edible almonds are a product of a recessive where all the offspinf of that tree continue the recessive trait. Acorn bearing oaks have tannin content controlled by several genes, and a sweet acorn tree will produce daughter oaks with bitter acorns one again.

Mountain Rose, fer Pete's sake!
"It is natural for women to desire
children. But is it right for Lesbians to deliberately have babies withour giving them a real daddy?

And was it advisable for Mary Cheney to do this while her father is still holding national office? What kind of example does it set for young women?"


Is it right? That's up to her to decide. The child will have ample male influence from the Grandfather(s). Last I looked, this was supposed to be a free country.

Example? She is a private citizen!!! She works for AOL! She has ZERO responsibility to set a hypothetical example dictated by YOUR morals! How ego-centric can you get??!!


"If I had my choice between Lesbian couples having babies and Gay male couples having babies (perhaps through a surrogate) I would choose the Lesbians.

However, I really have a problem with either one. Children are not toys and they are not subjects to be experimanted on."

All other things being equal, the lesbian couple may well do a better job, but there are gay male couples who are quite capable. I must ask, however, where do you get the outlandish idea that this is an experiment? Would you insult any other mother like this? You should be ashamed, if you were capable...


"Although Ms. Cheney is somewhat supportive of her father's career, how thoughtful can she be if she brings dishonor to her family in this way. It isn't like she was a wayward girl who got herself knocked up by mistake. This had to be deliberate and planned over some time."


Dishonor? YOU are one of the people screaming that she shouldn't marry in the first place!!!! And you have the preposterous gall to suggest that Mary and her spouse of 15 years are somehow dishonoring her family??!! smh

celtic-dragon
You seem hysterical when in these types of discussions. The fact of the matter is that genetics does not determine choices we make as human beings, though genetics may make these choices more challenging.

Kevin
I think he hit on why gays want kids - it's part of the social assault. However, they probably want kids like the rest of us do as well. Almost all of us want to be dads or moms - it's built into us to crave this.

The column has some logical gaps in its argument, but they were bridgeable, so I guess I'll leave them alone.

Ideally, every kid should have a mom and dad to raise them, preferably ones that don't openly live in sexual perversion. That, of course, is a standard that doesn't cut against gays alone.

I've said before that it can be internally devastating for a boy to be missing a dad, but it's just as much so for a girl to lack her dad.

Thasic
Think of your life without your mother or father. If it seems desirable, than suport homosexual parenting. I believe both roles are important.

Thasic, about the two boys ...
Were the children of the homosexual couple (of which one was your childhood friend) the biological offspring of either of them? If not, were they children that no normal couple wanted to adopt? Were the two boys legally adopted by both of the men?

Thanks
---------
[i]test[/i] *test*

Indoctirnation and Manipulation
That's why homosexuals want children. This is the only way they can continue their lie. Indoctrinate the children and make them believe this is normal and because as they say they may 'grow up gay'. BIG LIE! Then they manipulate sympathizers, the media, hollywierd. 'Hey look they're just like everyone else, they just are attracted to the same sex, not by choice of course', another BIG LIE. Homosexual sex is about pleasure and nothing more, that's why nothing good comes out of it, AIDS, therapy, suicide. I'm still waiting for that big heterosexual AIDS outbreak…

They say they want a child out of love, but it is selfishness and jealousy. They want what we have. Envy is one of the deadly sins, no? But they want more than what we have. They want total acceptance form everyone and ef-you if you don't agree.

Kevin is right that the child will not share anything with mommy #2 and mommy #2 will not be able to teach him/her anything different than mommy #1. And don't get me started on 2 men. BTW does anyone have an idea of how exactly homosexuals will answer this question: Daddy's/Mommies how are babies made? Just curious, maybe John Underhill can enlighten us.

This is really the crux of it, isn't it? This is the Lib fantasy, a one perspective collective with everyone thinking one way with no outside opposition.

These are my thoughts on the subject, sorry if they are random. I guess I'm a homophobe now, right? Maybe Kimbat will comment. A newbie can dream…

Scottie, I liked your piece on masculinity.

merry_go_boy: shared DNA is scary if it is true.

BD
In what way was I being hysterical? I would agree that genetics cannot be blamed for bad choices, but the record of gay people who try VERY hard to act straight is not terribly encouraging. You can make choices about WHAT you do, but you have much less latitude on more fundamental issues regarding WHO you are. Genetics and environment play a huge role here. Sure, that is my pessimistic Hobbesian determinism coming back again, but that is how I see it. Man is a creature of genetic disposition and environment, and most everything else is wishful thinking at best.

celtic-dragon
I believe that both male and female roles are important in child development. I do not doubt that homosexual couples would like to raise children, I simply doubt their motives. I also strongly disagree with your last statement. If man is not a creation, what is he/she?

BD
"If man is not a creation, what is he/she?"


I already told you my view there. You are entirely free to disagree, and I aknowledge the rather grimly pessimistic nature of Hobbesian philosophy. Man can aspire to Godliness, but is contrained by his nature. You can say it is a fallen nature, or a sinful nature...and Hobbes would likely have agreed. The end result is a creature that is bound by historical inevitability to wanton violence, and mayhem. Quote:

For the Lawes of Nature (as Justice, Equity, Modesty, Mercy, and(in summe) doing to others, as wee would be done to) of themselves without the terrour of some Power, to cause them to be observed, are contrary to our naturall Passions, that carry us to Partiality, Pride, Revenge, and the like. And Covenants, without the Sword, are but Words, and of no strength to secure a man at all.

Thomas Hobbes "Leviathan", Chapter XVII

Still SuperiorToGod &EachOther,KidsOrNot
As is often the case, I am, once again, in agreement with Mr. McCullough's thoughts and sentiments on these things, except for a few important points.

In several areas of his column he points out the inadequacy, on a basic biological level, of "two women" or "two men" trying to get together to "make" a child, because it comes out against everything and everyone, the child, society, not to mention, our Maker. With this I agree.

The problem I *do* have, however, is Mr. McCullough's efforts at paralleling "infertile" couples with less 'adequate' abilities, and the simple manner in which he explains that away, though I doubt that was his intention..

In one comment he shares:

"Is there a more obvious product of heterosexual behavior than the creation of children? If so then isn't it somewhat peculiar that those who shun the behavior of heterosexuality so deeply crave the product that it brings?"

I don't know the all of how or whys that bring gay people to want children. I can, however, speak for heterosexuals, as we are, and, more specifically, myself and my Husband and our family.

In the last 13 months, and after many years of blessed and happy marriage, we had the great honor of becoming parents, by way of my becoming pregnant, and conceiving, through no scientific intervention, just us and God, twice. Sadly, we lost both babies, one at 12 weeks, who was growing quite nicely, heartbeat and all, and the other at just 6 weeks.

To our understanding, we have no "abnormal" health concerns, nor do we know that we have any problems with an ability to get pregnant, as these miracles occurred both with me in my early 40's, which is actually, medically speaking, quite a prolific achievement, particularly two years in a row, so we praise God. I know it is not a familial genetic concern, as my sister just had a healthy baby boy, she at one year younger than me.

YET, I don't see my Husband and I as being any "less" displaying and living the loving, happy and committed example of "heterosexual behavior", just because we haven't "created children".

I understand Kevin's point, but he is right when he always contends: "Words mean things".

And I think that, though our situation's example is probably the wild card in this discussion, it ought to be noted, because child-bearing and rearing is not the sole province of couples who are such amazing examples of anything, let alone heterosexuality...

Which is not to lean to the bad logic next, that gay people have of then adding that they are just fine for the task. No and no..

On the other hand, I *DO* understand, in the context of this column, what Kevin means. And in that sense he is correct, pregnancy is clear evidence of a heterosexual communiqué' as it were, even if the child does not live. It is a man and woman communication, and also, between genes...But a child's loss, or an inability to conceive is no inability in the couple at hand..I disagree..

Kevin goes on to say:

"If a man and wife struggle with infertility, it is because of biological breakdown. What God designed to work a certain way short circuited. He has low sperm count. She doesn't produce eggs as she should. They have trouble getting the two together. The biological dysfunction is not voluntary, they attempt sexual intercourse, time and time again but because of the faulty genetics in the machinery they are unable to complete the conception. And should medicine ever develop a cure for whatever that specific breakdown might be - there will be no problem for the couple, through natural sexual engagement to have another child."

But, as I said above, we do not know that that was the case for us. Many things can cause miscarriages, from stress, to other things we might not know of. And the way it is described above is not entirely fair or easy...

It's just not always that easy to become pregnant, particularly when couples are out of a certain age range. Although miscarriages do happen to women of all ages, and youth is no guarantee of a perfect pregnancy or child...

In any case, I am sorry, but I find this aspect of this a bit too simple in the description. Life can be fragile. Babies die. Things happen. It’s not always as easy as described...

"Children are the undeniable product of the superiority of heterosexual engagement. And since homosexual behavior in large terms wishes to throw off the weight of conventional sexuality, I am curious as to why they would desire to reinforce the inferiority of their sexual behavior."

I don't agree. In the larger over-arching sense, maybe, if one wants to put the heterosexual union down to just that..In the sense of paralleling gays to straight people, then you’d be right. Kevin would be right...

But not every heterosexual family has children...

Some just can't...

Some, time goes by and they don't get the chance...

Some, they are not able to or interested to adopt. Maybe, they don't have the money...

Maybe, like us, they are deeply in love, and if childbearing were based on love alone, they'd have an orphanage of kids by now, but circumstance and God and time has not allowed...

In any case, while I maintain agreement with Kevin that homosexuals are not the ideal, by any standard, for a child's best interest being taken into account, when raising them, and I also agree that biologically two women or two men will not take the place, even remotely, of a Mom and a Dad, I think the aspect of heterosexual couples who CAN'T have children has been a bit avoided here.

Kevin's quote above could almost imply, by default, that couples who cannot give birth are somehow off the mainline of achievement of "superiority" in "heterosexual engagement".

Well, we disagree.

Not that I think that gives Andrew Sullivan points, because I don't think we are to be paralleled at all with "gay" 'couples' who want to conceive..

Kevin's point was we are not the same. Heterosexual couples and homosexual duos...

But, by the same token, heterosexual couples who can't have children are not any "less" because don't or can't...

Nor is our relationship any less fully heterosexual, committed, loving or alive. Or fruitful in God's eyes...

I know he didn't say that directly, but that could be implied...



Mrs V
As always, I only wish the best for you, and I pray that your struggles with carrying a child will be eased. If you declare that your marriage is superior to mine, then I must tell you that is a hurtful...and hateful...thing to say.

celtic-dragon
Perhaps we are not so different after all. I agree with much you have said. Seek the Lord and you will find the answers to your pessimism.

Does this guy
write about anything else but gays? Is he stuck on this subject or what. Leave the gays alone for goodness sake.

Now you can all pile hate onto me.:)

BD
Lol, I have butted heads with jerubaal a few times on this, but we agree more often then not as well. I'm tired, so good night to all.


Shameless plug...my blog is at

http://celticharp.townhall.com/

See Crouse's column...
For a similar discussion on the issues raised by McCullough, check out the Dec 7th column from Janice Shaw Crouse and the large volume of comments / debate it elicited:

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/column.aspx?UrlTitle=mary_cheneys_pregnancy_affects_us_all&Comments=true&ns=JaniceShawCrouse&dt=12/07/2006




My thoughts on the subject...
are posted on Crouse's column using the link above. I don't hate gays. I just don't think they can offer a parenting model as effective as that provided by the traditional one man / one woman model.

"Something About Mary"
Big deal.... two lesbians went to a sperm bank with a turkey-baster and conceived.

The real story is yet that another layer of GOP hypocrisy has been peeled away.

One of the main tools that the Bush crowd used in the last two campaigns was demonizing the gays.

But it turns out Karl Rove was deeply devoted to his gay step-father and – surprise! – in the bizarre world of Cheney family values there really isn’t “Something About Mary.”

Wake up, Fundamentalists and Born-Agains! The GOP is mocking you – again!

The real story?
The real story might be why we are constantly regaled with tales, stories, examples and exemplars, of psycho-sexual dysfunction as legitimate expressions of healthy sexual development.

I recall the old saw about "the love that used to dare not speak it's name, now can't shut up".


Children as consumable good
The reason that same-sex couples want children is the same reason straight couples opt for genetic engineering (up to and including passing along a faulty gene so a child has the same disability as one or both parents):

Children are no longer seen as gifts from God, but a commodity to be used by consumers (formerly known as parents) as needed and desired. They are "things" that will add status to a couple's life in the eyes of others, not persons worthy of love, devotion, discipline, and education.

KMC on CNN's RELIABLE SOURCES 10:45am
Today, responding to the Mark Foley ethics investigations, and the Mary Cheney media coverage.

10:45am EST - CNN.

The Children, as usual, will suffer
I'm not going to bash homosexuals. They exist. I don't even care why. But they do, whether gay or lesbian, tend to be narcissistic. Narcissism is not limited to homosexuals but it is rampant in the GLBT community. Narcissists make lousy parents, without exception. For that reason, gays and lesbians tend (there are exceptions) make lousy parents. Fortunately, those that are willing to undergo the challenges involved in becoming a parent tend to be less narcissistic than those that don't. But the bottom line is that children will always be better off with one male parent and one female parent who are committed to each other and to the children. Yes, I am aware of child abuse in two-parent heterosexual families but the incidence is much lower than in blended families, step families, etc.

Notice, most of the grief that comes to children in the heterosexual community comes because the parents are not married and committed to each other and to the children. One of the posters mentioned Britney Spears. She has plenty of money to do whatever she wants so her two children won't grow up in poverty (unless she manages her business affairs as poorly as her personal affairs) but every holiday they will be shuttled back and forth between Mom's and Dad's. Security from a child's point of view is diminished. Then, if Dad remarries, his attention will be subdivided away from these two kids, if Britney remarries the chances of her new husband accepting these two as his own and treating them that way are slim and will get slimmer if he and Britney have more kids of their own - it only gets worse as marriage gets less and less important. To my mind, one of the most destructive social forces in the last 30 years is no-fault divorce.

Whether you are a Right-Wing Fundamentalist Christian or an athiest, the evidence coming in from any dispassionate sociological study indicates that it is best for children if marriage is entered into seriously and with long term consequences acknowledged and agreed to between the two partners; if those partners are then monogamous and totally committed to the marriage instead of to themselves; if the two parents then join together in commitment to raising any offspring from birth to the age of majority; and if all distractions from that task are put on hold until "the kids are out of the house." That includes the kind of job you have in order to be an active parent while still having the means to feed clothe and shelter the family, involvement in school, teaching the kids how to live (things like making your bed, cooking, hammering a nail, mowing the lawn, interacting with neighbors,) and above all demonstrating the commitment required to stay married and loving and raising children. If gays can pull that off, go for it. Statistics indicate they will have a high probability of failure. I cannot use the high failure rate amongst the heterosexual community to condone compounding the problem with gay marriage. In the end, it must be about the children.


Peppermint
Good comment. Gays raising children, as an issue, barely beats out Britney's undie preferences as a subject of importance. I can see celtic-dragon weighing in, but she at least is conveying information and viewpoints from her unique and deeply involved position. It irks me when ANYBODY opinionates about someone else's motives. Gays who want to raise children are doubtless operating from the gamut of motives, but why attribute any given one to Mary Cheney? Only she knows her heart. Children are best raised with both prominent mother and father figures. but the overlap of good to bad parenting situations is quite large and no individual should be precluded from demonstrating their highest potential because of a general statistical disadvantage. Its great to be oversized if you want to play in the NFL, but Pat Robertson was great at 180. When asked if it was true a good big man always beats a good little man he replied "true. But how many good big men are there?". There are some important issues around homosexuality, promiscuity, AIDS dangers, special treatment, invasion of privacy, social and cultural decency and reticence, but gays raising children as a problem gets more attention from some people than makes sense to me.

Bipsy Quee
Your comment as usual was short and pointed.

Here's 2 cents to ponder
God allows us to exercise our will freely.

All things are permissible but not all things are beneficial.

Their exercise of free will got Adam and Eve booted out of the Garden of Eden.

We all must accept the consequences of the choices we make.

Homosexuality is a choice.



Gay In A Vacuum
Peppermint said,"Leave Gays alone". This is America and it becomes more prevalent daily, we leave no one alone. Democrats attack Republicans, secularist attack church goers, rules are made to prohibit smoking, put on your seat belt--it never ends. Homosexuals, therefore, get their turn in the barrel (pun intended). In a lesbian relationship, how is it determined who will carry the fetus? Do they draw straws, cut the cards, flip a coin, or guess a number? If the Mother elects to breast feed the baby, will that cause a jealousy problem? Just musing but back to my original point. Should we leave Gays alone as Peppermint suggests? No, homosexuals proselyte, they are in the sexual business of persuading and enticing. Heterosexuals are in the same business but the underlying reason may be far different and , I contend, much more natural.

Few points..
Feminazis (female homosexuals) doen't want to give up motherhood but their hate for manhood demands that they deny children a male parent.

Male homosexuals have a great desire to have sex with boys - hence NAMBLA attempts to eliminate statutory rape laws. Male homosexuals have the highest percentage of child molsexation of any group.

I see that celtic dragon is doing it's normal thing - defending perverts

and

K-Marx is doing her normal thing - spewing her antagonistic hate-propaganda.



Why would they want them
This article is typical of the abstract, reality-disconnected thinking of many male religous sectarians. Instead of 'wondering' about such things, why don't you meet a real, live, lesbian couple and (gasp) ask them why they want children? Could it be that... they _love_ children? Where would that fit into your theory? But it's easier to post abstract blog articles than it is to actually converse with someone.

celtic-dragon
You said of Ms. Cheney: "Is it right? That's up to her to decide. The child will have ample male influence from the Grandfather(s). Last I looked, this was supposed to be a free country."

You also said: "Man is a creature of genetic disposition and environment, and most everything else is wishful thinking at best."

And this: "As always, I only wish the best for you, and I pray that your struggles with carrying a child will be eased. If you declare that your marriage is superior to mine, then I must tell you that is a hurtful...and hateful...thing to say."

I too have questions because I yearn to know, a genuine need. How do you decide what it right and what is wrong? How does Mary Cheney? By what standard do you judge others' comments, and how do you determine what is "hateful" and "hurtful"?

And exactly to whom do you pray?

All "not'ed Up"
As you might guess from my name, I have no problem with Mary Cheney's desire for a child, and I wish Kevin McCullough and everyone else felt the same way that I do. That's probably not ever gonna happen....

So, a more modest goal for this posting. Can somebody 'un-screw-up' this sentence of Kevin's for me?

Kevin's Golden Prose:
"Since we do not live in a theocracy it is unreasonable to maintain that Americans will not all make the same choice when it comes to morality and sexual behavior."

I *think* that Kevin has sprinkled in one more 'not' than he meant to here. Yeah, I guess that's it, that 2nd 'not' shouldn't be there. try out the sentence without it, it seems more like what Kevin believes. I guess what really threw me for a loop was the way it went with the following gem:

"However that reality has nothing whatsoever to do with whether sexual behavior should be considered moral that extends beyond moral boundaries."

Circular reasoning like the above is always kind of funny when you look at it. But after a chuckle or two I begin to think of what Kevin and alot of the rest of you would like to do to Gay People, based largely on just such kiester-backward reasoning as the above. Then it isn't so funny anymore.

You all hate Gay People. Oh well, it's a free country, you can hate as you wish. But, when your attempts to support and justify that hatred lead you to crap like the above reasoning, might that not raise even a teeny little alert flag in your head that your premise may be bad?

poor article
Besides McCullogh's grammar, this article is not worded well. A man and woman get married - they are family. A men should be closer to his wife than his own parents. So the family part does not necessarily have to do with biology. This does not mean we should go out of our way to berate nuclear families or change what family normally means.

I think homosexual practicioners who want children are selfish. They want to behave the way they want to behave knowing that it is against nature and God and then they want to drag children into their world. They, in effect, are cheating. They don't like the rules, so they just go around them. Same as single women who get in vitro - it is self-absorbed mememe thinking. These arrangements are not best for children, but the homosexual practicioners and the single successful woman wants it so be it.

As for married couples having trouble I do not think they should turn to science. My belief is that maybe they are supposed to adopt some of the orphans who need parents.

Flaming Liberal Multiculturalist...
... writes typical lefty drivel. He or she is yet another example of the "anyone who disagrees with our agenda is a bigot" propaganda line. As for Mr. McCullough, just ignore the lefty hate mail. Those of us (namely, the clinically normal)who agree with you far outnumber the lefties.

Peppermint
I was thinking the same thing: "yeah, another gay article by Kevin" before I found out it was his worst one yet. I was trying to be gentle by talking about logic gaps.

From the Law comes the knowledge of sin…

‘In our culture we don't think about our actions from the viewpoint of the One who created us. Rather we obsess about our rights to do what we want, how we want, and as often as we want.’ - Kevin McCullough

Kevin this statement is at the heart of the issue. The culture has lost its way because we have no knowledge of God. The Biblical understanding is lost. We don’t know who God is, and so God is mocked. The name of Christ is not honored. He is mentioned with other religious men and most foolishly referred to as a good teacher, when He claimed to be the eternal I AM. Men in their rebellion will not have this Man rule over them.

This is the way of all men. It is more apparent now. The constraint of a moral consensus is torn down. We glorify today what was shameful less than 50 years ago. Immorality and sin are obsolete words, exchanged for words like choice or orientation. The Christian ethic is considered dangerous because it might be taken as truth. It’s as if evil is good, and good is evil just as it is written…

‘Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; who put darkness for light, and light for darkness…Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes…Because they have rejected the law of the LORD of hosts, and despised the word of the Holy One of Israel.’ [Isaiah 5]

What you are asking involves the ‘mystery of lawlessness’. It is past finding out because these things have not been revealed. Rather we should be asking whether we can recover. We already know how we got here. The church that seeks political solutions to the problems of sin, rather than calling men to faith and repentance, has forgotten its mission. The nation that disdains the Law of God will continue its decline into lawlessness, because with the Law comes the knowledge of sin. Where there is no sin, there is no need of redemption.

‘Shall the throne of iniquity, which devises evil by law, have fellowship with [God]? They gather together against the life of the righteous, and condemn innocent blood. But the LORD has been my defense, and my God the rock of my refuge. He has brought on them their own iniquity, and shall cut them off in their own wickedness.’ [Psalm 94]

Those who say to the wicked that God loves you and has a wonderful plan for your life are lying to them. Believers should follow the example of our Lord who started His ministry with these words, ‘Repent and believe the gospel, for the kingdom of God is [come]’


a need for natural progression....
in the absense of the natural ingredient that is necessary must be very frustrating. In a loving, committed relationship, wanting to produce a child out of that love is the natural progression to that relationship. The desire for natural function and progression being out of reach does not lessen this desire.

Natural results cannot be achieved through unatural use. Design governs results.

bringing up baby
A loving woman marries a widower with a young child and helps raise the child she shares no DNA with. Do Christianist wingnuts object to this? No. What they object to is gays and lesbians leading happy productive lives.

merry_go_boy: now read Isaiah. There are lots of sins listed over and over. If you count, you can figure out which are the worst. First, worshiping false gods. Second, neglecting the poor. Third, corrupt business practices.

wife, spouse, etc.
Any homosexual who uses the words "wife, spouse, couple, married", etc. is defining their activist motives succinctly.
Homosexual marriage is not legally recognized by the US government, and by the vast majority (overwhelmingly vast) of the public.
To insist on using these words is pretentious at best, agenda-driven at worst.

liberalgoodman
Your comparison is a pretty bad one. Infertile heterosexual couples adopting is the result of a catastrophe - whatever event caused the mother to give up her baby to strangers. (Poverty?).

Homosexual couples with kids are the result of willful conduct.

And even between the two cases, the heterosexual couple's adoption at least has both sexes caring for the child, hopefully without living in open sexual perversion.

Stepfamilies
I am married to a wonderful man who has been everything for my older son my ex-husband is too busy with his "Joe Cool" persona to be.

What is important is that someone is there for the kid, can talk to the kid, and can support him or her in school and other activities. I was unaware that there was some kind of DNA requirement for this.

For some gay couples, it may not have been so much a matter of desiring a family as finding that the other person you love happens to have a child as part of the package.

As for desiring families, I don't see a thing wrong with it. Having a child is part of a commitment to another person. As a person who works tech support, I am far more worried about idiots reproducing than I am about gays (even if it is job security).

Simply illustrated
+- = couple.
++ or -- = pairs.
Language is important; misuse it at your peril, it might just rear back and bite you.

Scarlet, nail meets hammer squarely
Homosexual activists are not a special interest group; they are a self-interest group.