Townhall.com, Where Your Opinion Counts
Talk Radio:   Bill Bennett   Mike Gallagher   Dennis Prager   Michael Medved   Hugh Hewitt   
BREAKING NEWS  LeftArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican   RightArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican  
Columns, funnies & more in your inbox!
  • Check the boxes and send us your email address to receveive your free newsletter
  • Your daily must-read of conservative columns, cartoons and news. Coulter, Sowell, Krauthammer and more.
  • Townhall.com’s weekly inside scoop on what’s happening behind the scenes in the world of politics. When news breaks, we report.
  • Signup to receive the latest daily Townhall cartoons
Monday, March 30, 2009
Kevin James :: Townhall.com Columnist
A Truth Not Self-Evident: Only Americans Should Make U.S. Laws
by Kevin James
Vote on It:
Average Vote:
[+] Text [-]
 
 
Poll
Will the Dems' health care Christmas Present to America be an improvement or detriment to our health care system?


Zimbabwe should not be making American law.

Neither, for that matter, should France, India, Mexico, Switzerland or any other country. Only America should be making laws for Americans.

Incredibly, not everyone agrees with this principle. Astonishingly, some of the people who do not agree are justices of the U.S. Supreme Court. Fortunately, a solution to the problem is being proposed.

In 2005, the Supreme Court held that the Eighth Amendment – which bans cruel and unusual punishment – prohibits the execution of murderers who committed their crimes before their eighteenth birthdays. As a former federal prosecutor, I disagreed with the ruling. The death penalty is appropriate in a few juvenile murder cases, and I trust juries to make the right decision. But worse than the high court’s result was its reasoning.

Justice Anthony Kennedy, writing for a bare 5-4 majority, supported his decision by citing to the laws of other countries. He illogically referred to a treaty called the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child, a treaty the United States has never ratified. Justice Kennedy also mentioned statutes passed in the 1930s and ‘40s by the British Parliament. Funny, I thought one of the perks of the American Revolution was not having to listen to the British Parliament.

Justice Kennedy had been swayed by a growing liberal movement which argues that U.S. laws – including the Constitution itself – should match the laws of other, allegedly more enlightened countries. And, since Congressional Republicans won’t go along with the plan, leftist judges are the designated soldiers in this legal revolution.

One of the true believers is Supreme Court justice Stephen Breyer, who, in his desire to turn our country over to the “international community,” wrote one of the worst opinions I‘ve ever read. In a 1999 decision called Knight v. Florida, the Supreme Court declined to review the appeal of an inmate who argued that he had been on death row so long that the sentence was cruel and unusual. As you’ve probably guessed, the convict’s confinement was lengthy because he kept filing appeals!

Justice Breyer wanted to hear the case, and, to support his belief that lengthy death row imprisonment was unconstitutional, he cited any law he could get his hands on. He talked about Jamaican law; he riffed on the European Court of Human Rights; he dragged in the appellate courts of India. And, in what Justice Breyer must now consider to be an embarrassment, he cited the Supreme Court of Zimbabwe as an institution we should look to for constitutional guidance.

This must stop. Only Americans can decide the meaning of American laws. We passed them. We’ll decide how to enforce them. .

The use of foreign law in U.S. courts has other dangers. American judges are not trained in foreign legal systems, some of which are founded on different assumptions and values. Furthermore, liberal jurists cherry-pick, citing the foreign laws they agree with. Don’t expect Justice Breyer to be referring admiringly to Mexico’s taxation of remittances from illegal aliens north of the border.

Luckily, someone in a position to influence policy understands the need to keep our laws to ourselves. Nicholas Quinn Rosenkranz is a professor at Georgetown University, and he has proposed a constitutional amendment that would forbid the courts from using foreign law to interpret or change the U.S. Constitution.

Professor Rosenkranz’s draft Twenty-Eighth Amendment is simple yet powerful: “This Constitution was ordained and established by the People of the United States, and so it shall not be construed by reference to the contemporary laws of other nations.”

In a scholarly but readable essay dubbed a “thought experiment” – you can download it for free from here after registering -- Professor Rosenkranz underlines a need to limit the discretion of judges. In their misguided internationalism, Justices Breyer and Kennedy are, he says, “declaring nothing less than the power of foreign governments to change the meaning of the United States Constitution.” A foreign government could even change its laws in the hope of changing U.S. laws.

In response, Justice Antonin Scalia said it best. “More fundamentally,” he wrote in a dissent to the juvenile death penalty case, “the basic premise of the Court’s argument – that American law should conform to the laws of the rest of the world – ought to be rejected out of hand.”

A constitutional amendment would do the job quite well.

Share:
Vote on It:
Average Vote:
 
About The Author

Kevin James began his professional career in 1988 as a lawyer with one of Los Angeles' largest law firms. Soon thereafter, Kevin spent more than 3 years as an Assistant U.S. Attorney in LA, and then more than 10 years as a litigator in high profile entertainment matters.

Be the first to read Kevin James’s column.
Sign up today and receive Townhall.com delivered each morning to your inbox.
Sign up today
How come
We are not demanding these judges be impeached for breech of their oaths of Office?

Everyone in Government must swear an Oath that is legally binding him to submit his own views to that of the US Constitution.

Yet we all see them transgress the Supreme Law of the Land and not a single person anywhere in the Justice Department is speaking up against such treasonous language as to overthrow the US Constitution.
That is what this is:

quote:
"Justice Anthony Kennedy, writing for a bare 5-4 majority, supported his decision by citing to the laws of other countries. He illogically referred to a treaty called the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child, a treaty the United States has never ratified."

Another antidote to the UNCRC
DRAFT PARENTAL RIGHTS AMENDMENT
FOR THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION
SECTION 1
The liberty of parents to direct the upbringing and education of their children is a fundamental right.
SECTION 2
Neither the United States nor any state shall infringe upon this right without demonstrating that its governmental interest as applied to the person is of the highest order and not otherwise served.
SECTION 3
No treaty may be adopted nor shall any source of international law be employed to supersede, modify, interpret, or apply to the rights guaranteed by this article.

HOW AN AMENDMENT PROTECTS THE FAMILY FROM INTERNATIONAL LAW
As a legally binding international treaty, the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child is capable of permanently altering the role of the parent within the American family. If ratified, the UNCRC becomes the law of the land, unable to be held in check by state or national legislation. The only way to protect the rights of parents from the destructive policies contained in the UNCRC is through an amendment to the U.S. Constitution.
Presently, except in cases where a parent has been proven to be "unfit," American law presumes that the parent is acting in the best interests of the child, and defers to that parent's decision. The UNCRC, in contrast, supplants this traditional presumption in favor of parents with a new presumption in favor of the state.
The Senators who originally opposed the ratification of the UNCRC when it was originally signed by President Clinton in 1995 believed that the Convention marked a significant departure from the American concept of the relationship between state and child, and was incompatible with the right of parents to raise their children.
The only way to protect the vital role of parents from this cataclysmic shift is through amending the U.S. Constitution to reflect current Supreme Court doctrine which preserves the right of parents to direct the upbringing and education of their children.

to sign the petition and get updates
http://www.parentalrights.org


Yeah, sure...
The same idiot judas and his 4 commie collaborators all unjudiciously endorse the murder of about 4,500 babies in the womb, every day of the year here in the USA.
So, the moron hasn't got clue one - and blood drips from his ravenous jowls.
What an idiot.

Foreign governments
This can be a real problem, and it has been so for over 200 years. Way back before the US was founded, there was a complaint about "to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws" and it caused a revolution. You can look up that document on Google. it starts with the phrase:

When in the course of human events...

Part of the Agenda.
This is just part of the left wanting to give away our sovereignty. These are the same people that want our military controlled by foreign coutries, the same people that will have us paying carbon taxes to the U.N. and the same people who want the law of the sea treaty.

A simpler solution...
...far simpler than a Constitutional amendment, is merely to remember that the courts have no enforcement arm. That's why the judiciary has been called "the least dangerous branch."

When the Supreme Court issues a clearly anti-Constitutional decision, that decision should be ignored by the executive branch. (A decision is "clearly anti-Constitutional" when there is no applicable clause in the Constitution to support it, or when the decision contradicts the plain words of the document.) Congress should step into the gap thereafter with a resolution condemning the Justices who collaborated in the decision and, if appropriate, specifically limiting the Court's jurisdiction.

The Founders never intended for the Court to have the power to rewrite the Constitution in real time, nor did they contemplate a time when the "least dangerous branch" would strive to undo the arrangements of two centuries. The more fools we, that we've so often permitted it.

CRC ..takes away parental rights!
The United Nations is the biggest threat to American LAW and families.
In exploring the UN's CRC it would allow a groups to decide what is best for your child and it would be done overseas NOT in the USA.
Barbra Boxer is in a rush to get this treaty passed through the 111th Congress.

Read here;

http://www.parentalrights.org/index.asp?Type=B_BASIC&SEC={B 56D7393-E583-4658-85E6-C1974B1A57F8}

Right now there are 66 sponsors to an Amendment to the Constitution to protect our families and stop this treaty which would supercede our Constitution.
Urge your representitives to back this by faxing and emailng and calling them before this over-rides our rights.

Spam alert
(on my blog I have an article posted awhile ago about Boxers push to get this treaty ratified ..click my name to read)

A Partial Solution
As evidenced by one of the cited instances, limiting the libs to "contemporary" still leaves them lots of room to "clarify" whether contemporary means when the Constitution was adopted, or whether it means at the current time. Why include the word at all?

I wouldn't recommend anyone holding their breath until we elect and/or appoint to any federal office or position only those who will be strict constructionists. And as far as any administration simply ignoring a Supreme Court decision, if it happened at all, it would work until the next administration "friendly" to the decision takes office and enforces the decision.

wow
You people are morons. What part of "The overwhelming weight of international opinion against the juvenile death penalty is not controlling here, but provides respected and significant confirmation for the Court’s determination . . ." did Kevin and the rest of you not understand?

Let me guess. The rest of you didn't bother to actually read the opinion before commenting.

The Judiciary Interprets . . .
I personally am all for a strict interpretation of the Constitution . . . an interpretation which LIMITS the powers of the federal government, as the Framers of the Constitution intended. However, it is fundamentally absurd for anyone to claim that the judicial branch of government, of which the Supreme Court is the highest embodiment, does not have the implied power to interpret the Constitution and make a determination as to whether any lesser laws meet the dictates of the Constitution, which is, after all, SUPPOSED to be the supreme law of the land. Not every part of the Constitution is dogmatically unambiguous. If it always had been unambiguous, we would never have had any disputes about economic policy, slavery or civil rights. It is, and always has been, the responsibility of the courts to interpret the law, and adjudicate conflicts arising FROM different interpretations by partisan interests. That is why there has to be some recognized authority with the power to decide the Constitutionality of issues . . . regardless of whether we, as individuals, agree with their decisions or not. It is the responsibility of Congress to MAKE laws, and the responsibility of the Executive to ENFORCE them. It is NOT their responsibility to adjudicate DISPUTES that arise IN law.
Of course the courts themselves have sometimes made terrible decisions. We don't live in a perfect world with perfect people. Yet, it is obvious that Congress and the Executive branch have also frequently violated the Constitution. Andrew Jackson was a prime example. When that happens, are we supposed to leave it up to THEM to decide the Constitutionality of their own actions? If we don't like the way the Supreme Court decides Constitutional issues, we have the right to legally change the Constitution itself.

Stupd Red Herring
First Justice Kennedy was a Republican Appointee and a moderate on the court. And why shouldn't the justices consider the practices of other civilized nations when trying to deal with thorny issues. Are we so arrogant as to believe that we are always right?

Also there are no current or even recent cases in which the Supreme Court has based a decision onn foreign law. So why write this column now.

Others should not make our laws, and...
We should not be decreeing what the laws should or should not be in other countries, like Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Cuba, China, North Korea, etc.

I agree with Myk's observations, and Andrew Jackson was not the only chief executive who aggressively flouted constitutional standards: Abraham Lincoln is at the top of my list for that, having jailed thousands of people who disagreed with his military dictatorship [in patent violation of the First Amendment], "suspending" habeas corpus [for which the executive has no power], and threatening the chief justice with arrest for disagreeing with him.

Strict Constructionism is baloney
Strict constructionism along with judicial actism are lies. The cases that get to the supreme court are not simple and cannot be adjudicated solely on the basis of a particular line in the constitution. In fact courts in more cases the court must rely on precident. (Prior interpetations of the which themselves represent some deviation from strict constructionism)

As to judicial activism. The conservatives on the court have been quite activitist in their behaviors almost always interpeting the intent of the consitition in a way that is consistent with modern conservative ideology.

What we need on the court are justices who are not too ideological. Neither far right or far left. Justices like Kennedy and O'Connor.

Porretto
I wonder if you realize how dangerous an idea you are putting forth. No matter how bad a decision a president believes the courts have made, when that President refuses to abide by that ruling he or she is in absolute violation of a core principle of the consitution which is the seperation of powers.

An action that aggregious would be treason.

What is the Supremes Job?
Other than to back up Diana Ross, the Supremes have only one charter. To look for inconsistencies with the Constitution. Period. They are to look for violations of the Constitution in court cases that have come up through the system. That's it. Roe v Wade is a horrible precedent and is causing a lot of these problems (I am pro Choice BTW). We have a case where the Supreme Court has covered the termination of a life under a privacy clause. I can see where having an abortion can be a privacy issue and should be kept secret but the actual medical procedure itself? A privacy issue? Really? Since RvW we have seen consistent attempts of the court to WRITE legislation and treat the Constitution like a Stretch Armstrong doll. Think Obama's economic policy is scarey? Wait until he starts appointing judges!

Am I the only one that thinks when
deciding what cruel and unusual punishment are
it would be okay to survey other countries around
the world to help make a decision?

This would not trump precedent and a survey
of say state practices but would be worthwhile
to know when deciding.


A follow up
Get this I believe that what is thought to be
"cruel AND unusual" is a moving target and
changes over time.

Although some things that were cruel and unusual
a thousand years ago still are others which were
not seen as cruel or unusual two hundred and
twenty years ago now are seen as that.

Constitution
We are a Sovereign Nation, I do not want other Nations to tell us what to do.We have many men and women that have given their lives to Protect the Sovereignty of this Nation. When this Country was founded the Juduicary was designed to be the weakest branch. I would recomend Mark Levins Men in Black and Libery and Tyranny. It might help you uneducated people to understand the principales this Country was founed on. The Dems. would love us to become part of a one world country and loose any rights of self Governence.

I. AM. IN. FALLIBLE!
- Your Nearest Leftist Judge

Why No Impeachment?
The nine most dangerous persons in the United States are the justices of the Supreme Court. The liberal vessels on this court consistently make decisions that are contrary to the best interests of this nation. For some reason, there has never been a clamor from the citizens to remove these people from the bench, although Congress is able to impeach them. My thought is that if American citizens prefer living under the laws of another nation, they should relocate to that nation. The Constitution should not be tinkered with for it is truly the only protection the American people have.

Sickening
This country is getting sicker every minute we allow BO and his cohorts to ruin everything WE THE PEOPLE OF THE UNITED STATES have done to make this a great nation. It should not be allowed to be run by a dictator!!!! We are not europe, asia or the middle east or any other country.

JM051
Sir:

I cannot tell you how WRONG you are.
Allowing our laws to submit to other countries interpretation is wrong wrong wrong.....but there is a simple solution..pick up you family and your self...and go to whatever country you feel more comfortable in..and stay away from ours!!!

jmo 51
you said;As to judicial activism. The conservatives on the court have been quite activist in their behaviors almost always interpreting the intent of the constitution in a way that is consistent with modern conservative ideology
======================
That's because modern Conservative ideology is most in line with the intent of the Constitution.

Conservative judges interpret the Constitution. Your blessed activist lib judges attempt to rewrite it.

Your pathetic attempt to assign the term "activist" to conservatives will not work here.

Unite and fight back
Starting a central site for conservative thoughts, blogs, events, etc. This blog has been added to the site. Please spread the word. Feel free to suggest ideas etc. To view go to, http://aresay.blogspot.com/search/label/1

Edna Eagle in NC--and the rest:
going hand-in-hand with this is the bill to REVISE the Constitution (legally) that is gaining much supprt (Thank God).
It is introduced by Representative Hoekstra of Mich. It amends the Constitution to read that PARENTS have the ultimate right to choose what's best for their children--NOT Gov't!
It is supported by about 60 Reps. so far, both sides of the isle--including MY Representative Jim DeMint of SC.
It would undo such devisive laws as those that say a parent only has the right to be NOTIFIED of medications and treatments for THEIR child if incarcerated or hospitalized--NOT to approve!
PLEASE--let's support these fine Reps. in this effort! Let us get the word out!

Roper v. Simmons
Reality check. The court mostly relied on the "evolving standards of decency" test and the same test it used to ban the executions of those under 16 in 1988 in Thompson v. Oklahoma.

To support this, it illustrated how few people were executed in the US for crimes committed between the ages of 16 and 17. While 20 states had laws on the books allowing for 16 and 17-year olds to be executed, only 6 had done so since 1989 (when Stanford v. Kentucky was handed down which ruled states could if they so desired execute those who committed capital offenses as a 16 or 17-year old) and since 1994 (10 years before Roper) only three states had carried out such executions.

As for foreign law, the court did note that in 1990 only seven countries executed those under the age of 18 and that by 2004 each had either outlawed the practice or "made public disavowal of the practice," meaning only the US still executed juvenile offenders.

The court was not using foreign law to make its decision, but US law. Roper is no different in that regard to Thompson.

I disagree with both Roper and Thompson as a gross violation of State rights, but the ruling was based on US law and how it applies to the 8th Amendment, not based on the UN or International law, or foreign law. The UN "Rights of the Child" was simply to point out that only Somalia and the US had not ratified had not ratified Article 37 of the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child which banned thge execution of juveniles. The point of this was to show how the US was in pretty bad company on this issue, but not to serve as the prime justification for overturning Stanford.


Allen
No they didn't read it nor did most of them even know what decision it was. Nor were they aware of Thompson v. Oklahoma some 17 years before and using the same standards had banned the execution of those under 16 when they committed the crimes.

It is sickening
>we allow BO and his cohorts to ruin everything WE THE PEOPLE OF THE UNITED STATES have done to make this a great nation. It should not be allowed to be run by a dictator!!!! <

Justice Kennedy was appointed by Ronald Reagan and Justice Breyer by Bill Clinton.

How are they Obama cohorts? The article has nothing to do with the current President, who you appear to be characterizing as a dictator.

You're just one of WE THE PEOPLE OF THE UNITED STATES and this didn't become a great nation by making distorted allegations.


Enough is More Than Enough
It is time for all of this to end. Please see my blog for "A Proposed Solution ..."

To Patrick:
I agree that a central site is a good idea--but a much BETTER idea is to actually get all these thoughts and comments OUT THERE!
Singing to the choir is good to unite us--but singing to the STREET is a better way of getting CHANGE to transpire!
How can we do this? Write our Congress REPRESENTATIVES maybe? They ARE our employees, after all...

J-10
Bush Vs. Gore.

So much for the conservatives respect for state's rights.

Lynee
" It amends the Constitution to read that PARENTS have the ultimate right to choose what's best for their children--NOT Gov't!"

So if some wacko cult has the idea that standard medical treatment violates God's will--such as say blood transfusion or the like and the refusal of such would put the child in grave danger, you are fine with that?

There comes a point where the government should have the ability to veto the desires of parents in relation to the child.

allen
No it is you should go. I love my country, but I am not so arrogant as to believe that we cannot learn from other nations. It is great to love you country, but when you turn that into a blind belief in American Exceptionalism you threaten not only our greatness but also our role as a leader in the free world.

The UK was ahead of us in banning slavery. Perhaps, had we been able to see the evil of this institution earlier, we might have avoided the carnage of the civil war.


Justice Kennedy
As other posters have pointed out Justice Kennedy was appointed by Ronald Reagan.

I appreciate honest discussion

Joel-De Oppresso Liber
writes:
talent scout
Exactly right! There is no need to ammend the Constitution for this, or for almost any other issue. Homeschool Mom, as much as I agree with most of your posts, and admire your dedication to what is right, you are wrong on this one.

What is needed is not more ammenmends, but a proper understanding of what is already written, and a willingness to follow it. We must refuse to have any foreign authority over us. Withdraw from the UN, and any other treaties that infringe upon our God-given, and Constitutionally guaranteed rights. Restrict the federal govt to its enumerated responsibilities. At the state level, remind CPS that parents are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Revoke the absurd no spanking, no homeschooling, etc laws.
======================-=

Actually I am in agreement with what you are saying.
I see no need for an Amendment, I see a need for following the Law as already written.

People of today, mostly all on the anti-American "left" (misnomer as unfaithful to law of self government and all morals)do not know the difference in a Judge or a King.
The so called left look to the unfaithful men who are for world socialism as kings, not Judges of the Law.

This is why they are never wrong in their lying statements of support for the Oath breakers.
They are the enemies of all Liberty and Justice.

JMO51
Bush v. Gore was the State under the ruling from the Supreme Court of the State of Florida violating the equal protection clause of the 14th Amendment and as the courts have ruled since 1925 (Gitlow v. NY), the Federal government can restrict actions by the State.

In any event, Bush would have won in 2000 even if the SCOTUS had decided it was a state issue and dismissed the Federal suit.

The GOP dominated legislature was only days away when Bush v. Gore was decided to declare the Bush slate as the legitmate slate. Even if the SCOTSOF had decided Gore's slate was the legitimate one, we know from the election of 1876 what would have happened. The governor decides which is the correct slate and the governor was? Jeb Bush, brother of candidate Bush and chairman of the Florida "Bush 2000" campaign. How do you think he would have decided on that question?


If he was appointed by God
It would not give him any right to break his Oath of Office.
=======================

JMO51 writes:
Justice Kennedy
As other posters have pointed out Justice Kennedy was appointed by Ronald Reagan.

TS
He didn't break his oath of office. In Roper, if you would have read it, he stressed that the foreign examples used in the decision weren't used in the decision. The decision was based on the "evolving standards of decency" test and was the same test used in Thompson v. Oklahoma 17 years before.

J-10
"Conservative judges interpret the Constitution. Your blessed activist lib judges attempt to rewrite it."

Conservative judges or no less likely to engage in "judical activism" than liberal ones. Bork claimed he would have voted to uphold the conviction of Johnson in Texas v. Johnson--where in the Constitution does it say "Congress shall make no law...or abridging the freedom of speech except in regards to the US flag..."

Recall, 1984? "Red, White and Blue, we spit on you" just before he set the flag alight?

You cannot be an Oath Breaker
And not commit a Crime.
Any person who is a hired hand sitting on a Court Room bench to Judge the Law and apply Justice, is under the Law himself.
he is not above the Law.

What we have is the ageless old proof of imperfect men abusing an imperfect system to use force of law unlawfully.
Making them criminals that are in defiance of the Law of the Land.
Every Judge is made to Swear an Oath to the Law themselves.
Submitting his own views and will, to the Will of the Law they are Sworn to defend against all enemies.
Both Domestic and Foreign.
When they stop defending the Constitution and throw their support for the unlawful, unfaithful and treasonous ideas that they have no law that can judge them, then they are criminals themselves.

The Supreme Court is limited to judge on a case by case contest.
They have never and will never have the right to be the one institution of Government to tell all others, Congress, the president and all Americans what is legal and illegal.

Nope, if they held that sort of power, they would be Kings.
America has no kings today any more than we have ever had.

Not a single Judge has any more Rights than I do.
They are not above any man in deciding what our laws are to be.
This is solely in the Jurisdiction of the States and the People of the States.

The Tea Party we need
is one in which a quarter million people take over the Capitol, the Court,and the WH. They take all the liberals, including Algore, strip them naked, paint them front, back, and on the forehead with a red "T" for Traitor, and throw them in the river. The colder the weather, the better.

GET THE U. S. OUT OF THE UN, AND THE UN OUT OF THE U. S.

Allen of OK
If you read Roper, you'd see that wasn't the case. The US didn't submit to any foreign laws, just noting the few countries that allow for the execution of juveniles. A list the US probably didn't want to be associated with.

akagi
You are not a part of the American system of self government, being an unlearned foreigner who only has enough knowledge to be dangerous.

If your brains were dynamite, you lack enough power to blow your nose, as any part of the US Constitution is concerned.

The reason
that liberal judges were nominated by conservative Presidents that "LIBERALS LIE" when they are questioned about their views of constitutional law.

Akagi
All the more reason that the Supreme Court should not have thrusted itself into the election of the President especially on thin judicial grounds. My point is that Conservatives are quite activist.

Real Question
The question is not whether the Supreme Court Errored in this case but rather whether in ruling on cases, the Supreme Court should consider what has become an international standard of what is acceptable within civilized nations.

To date no ruling of the supreme court has ever been fundamentally premised on a decision of a foreign court. But what is wrong with look at acceptable practices around the world. If we expect that American can present a shining example to other nations, what is wrong with our courts taking an example from what other nations do, in a case where the consitution is ambigous in the matter?

The only possible answer is arrogance on the part of some on the right.

Joel-De Oppresso Liber
Courts must rule on the cases before them. It is the very constitution that empowers the courts to interpret itself. Courts have from the beginning relied on precidents in decieding cases. This is how our system works.

The consitution is not the Army Field Manual. It does not specifically say exactly what should be done in every case about every situation now and into the future.

No Judge
Sits above the Law.
No man sits above the Law, not even if he were a King.
The Law is Supreme (LEX REX)just as it became recognized to be by past generations and the Founders, their generation and the following Generations of Americans, until today.

There is no such thing as a perfect world, its inmature to hope one will come.

Having faith this world can be made a more perfect union is a thought of insane men.
The States United in this hope for a more PERFECT UNION, and we are going backwards from that hope in this day and time.
If we cannot even form a perfect Union here in America, hwo in the h#ll can it be done with the rest of the world?
Its an impossible and insane hope.
Its very vision brings not Light and Liberty to all, it brings bondage, suffering, cruelty, murder, war, hate and envy as its inspired by lies.
Lies do not bring Liberty, the Truth is the only thing that can set any man free.

This is the same grand lie Hitler and all such men had and followed, and brought the exact opposite of what he promised.

There is no way possible to form a perfect Union with the world.

The UN promotes this insane idea, and yet will not even be corrected by the proof they already have they have never brought any one nation on this planet a Perfect Union.



There is no basis in reality for such a hope for the United States of America, let alone the world


Let me sing you a song
All you who hope for a perfect world, and a united world in your pursuit of a world unionized under the unelected abusers of power.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjxFGbToVFM

JMO51
Read the title of the article!!! U.S. citizens should be subject to U.S. laws....What difficulty do you have with that concept???

Your comment to the effect we should look to other countries/judicial systems for "insights" is sophomoric in the extreme.

For example, the U.N. has just passed a resolution to the effect that "anti-religious" speech constitutes a hate crime. BUT the only "religion" one can offend is Islam..........

Please sir, if you don't wish to live under U.S. laws, then find some other jurisdiction to call home.

Ron
First, the UN isn't in the US--UNHQ at Turtle Bay is considered international territory. As for the US out of the UN--sounds good, but do you want US troops in East Timor or on the Green Line in Cyprus or running elections in Cambodia. The UN serves a vital US interest--allows the US to basically ignore areas that are not of a vital interest, if no UN there would be calls for the US to send troops where it doesn't have any interest at all and at times gives the US diplomatic cover for pursuing its own interests under the guise of enacting the will of the International Community.

Constitutional Law
The U.S.Constitution is THE SUPREME law of the land. No other.
Everyone, even the President and the Justices are REQUIRED to OBEY it - to the letter.

Failure to do so is an attack on our country.
We need Justices who will decide cases based only on our Constitution, not on their own opinions, or on those of other countries.

The LAWS of the Constitution are plain and simple. No one should have any trouble reading it, and deciding cases based on the Constitution.

Alan
"Read the title of the article!!! U.S. citizens should be subject to U.S. laws....What difficulty do you have with that concept???"

And they are. The column makes a claim that is false that the SCOTUS used foreign law to decide the case in Roper. What it did was use a test established long before by US courts and used to decide the Thompson case in 1988. The claim that the SCOTUS used foreign law to decide in Roper is a lie.

No Surprise
I'm not surprised at the 'world' viewpoint of these progressive practitioners of law. NH's only law school, Franklin Pierce Law, specializes in international law and 'social justice'. The only thing they teach in terms of US constitutional law is deconstructionist in nature, which fits with today's popular 'moral relativism'. Now this isn't just some 'hole-in-the-wall' school, Pierce is a highly respected institution. But they are more focused on, what appears to me to be, one world government, and circumventing constitutional law through establishing legal precedents on social issues, and, in effect, passing legislative change through the courts rather than through the legisature.
Columbia is no different.

hail to the chief
We have a black President who's father wasfrom Kenya, so why wouldn't Obama embrace a change?

A more Perfect Union
Wonderful idea, and it certainly is an inspiring hope to work for.

Someone show me a perfect Union in any two people on this planet, and I will show you two people who have faced the real world and accepted his own failures and weakness's every bit as much as he does his strengths.

Every mature man knows he has limits, and only fools believe they have no limits.

To follow an idea that the entire world can be made into a perfect union by imperfect men is blindness to reality.

The real world slaps every single person in the face at some time in their life, bring them back down to earth.

Sometimes this slap is a severe slap, as the history of the world has shown over and over again, and gets set aside for the same old false dreams dressed up in a new costume and face.

There is no more reason to place one's faith in a united world under socialism today than Nazi Germany or Lenin/ Stalinist Russia produced.

Marx idealistic dreams are all based in the delusions of a madman, not a sane one

TS
"You are not a part of the American system of self government, being an unlearned foreigner who only has enough knowledge to be dangerous."

Assumptions again, unlearned I may be, but at least learned enough to know foreign law wasn't used to decide Roper.

Flagtag
"The LAWS of the Constitution are plain and simple. No one should have any trouble reading it, and deciding cases based on the Constitution."

Really? How about the 4th Amendment? Should cops be able to stop and search a car they stop or must they get a warrant first? Is a drug test a search or not? How about a DNA sample? Can the US detain US citizens without due cause and on and on. Real cases aren't that simple.

TS
"The UN promotes this insane idea, and yet will not even be corrected by the proof they already have they have never brought any one nation on this planet a Perfect Union."

Actually the UN promotes that disputes are better solved talking over them than solving them on the battlefield. In many areas, the UN does a pretty good job (and I am not one of the UN's fans--see Un Resolution 2758 for example). Where the UN gets in trouble in when it tries to get into the job of peace making instead of things like peace monitoring, refugee services, development activities, election monitoring and the like.

The Founders knew the Union was
NOT PERFECT
There still existed the British instituted crime of slavery at the time they adopted the US Constitution as what they could UNITE under.
To Unite both Georgia and New Hampshire under the very same Government, the States all agreed to leave the issue of slavery up to each State, until that was changed in 1865 and the 13th Amendment that outlawed slavery ever after by any State.

This truth has been lost today from the schools not teaching American history, as it unfolded in the facts.

All 13 States United under these Fundamental Words of the Constitution, for a Federal Government that had LIMITATIONS PLACED ON IT IN ARTICLE 1.

17 areas of DUTY/Responsibilty (the States GAVE the Feds) was spelled out in very specific language.

This AGREEMENT the 13 States singed up for, never, not ever handed a power to any part of Government over the Rights of every man.

This document SEPARATES THE POWERS OF GOVERNMENT.
Marxism seeks to INCORPORATE THESE POWERS.
And is what they are going about to do today.
Incorporation of powers and erasing the separations of powers.

The Courts are not the legislation of Government.
They were limited to Judge law on a CASE BY CASE CONTEST.
Courts..
NEVER GIVEN SWEEPING POWER TO DICTATE LAW, just decide cases of individual persons who brought a case to them that was over Constitutional Rights for that person.

If Courts were perfect, they why would we even have an APPEAL PROCESS.
And any Superior Court given the last word on any case as it relates to that persons rights.



Imperfect men all, and all knew they were imperfect, yet gave more wisdom to this nation and all the rest of mankind who followed their lead.

And morons who have suckered themselves in to the Marxist dream, a united world under any man, are fools

Sorry akagi
I have seen your arguments for the past couple years and they bore me to death

The only time one country
can make another country's laws is when it administers the second (in otherwords, second is unfree colony of first).

This is why we must ban the RINOs
and TAKE BACK Congress with a CONSERVATIVE majority. I don't CARE what party they belong to. I could work with a Zell Miller all day if in Congress. What counts is absolute unwavering LOYALTY to the CONUS!!!

IF this continues, Congress HAS the power to impeach and REMOVE Justices who overreach their authority or act improperly. Using FOREIGN law because NO American law works for you is an example of an impeachable offense IF anyone in Congress had the nads of a field mouse.

-Ray
NRA Life Member
Soli Deo Gloria!!

A man convinced against his will
Is of the same opinion still

I Govern myself under the Natural Laws of the Universe.

The Law of Nature and Natures God no different than the Laws of Physics.

Just as the Laws of Physics such as this:

Three Laws of Motion

* Newton's First Law of Motion states that in order for the motion of an object to change, a force must act upon it, a concept generally called inertia.
* Newton's Second Law of Motion defines the relationship between acceleration, force, and mass.
* Newton's Third Law of Motion states that any time a force acts from one object to another, there is an equal force acting back on the original object. If you pull on a rope, therefore, the rope is pulling back on you as well.

The Natural Law of Self Government are the Foundations of America and Liberty.
Without following the natural laws of self government, there is no such thing as Liberty for that man, nation or country.

Liberty is only found in the Natural Law of the Universe.

Directly spoken of in the Declaration of Independence, and the Age of Enlightenment from the 1200's up to the Birth of the American System of Government.

I am willing to fight any power on this earth to keep this Liberty, including the treason against these laws by anyone, in government or out of government.

This is my declaration of Independence granted to me by God, not the Federal Government

International Law replaces Constitution?
This has been going on for decades... these judges should be impeached and kicked off the bench. What is happening? What is the US Congress waiting for?

We need to be very loud on this subject to our Congressmen. We need to get their attention.

Treaties signed are the law of the land
A constitutional amendment is a legitimate tool that the founding fathers left us, and now is the time to utilize it. There is nothing to be ashamed of in using this process to protect our liberties. There is no sin.

If anyone is interested in what the UN Rights of a Child says, here is a link to the full text:
http://www1.umn.edu/humanrts/instree/k2crc.htm

I would challenge anyone to read Article 29. It outlines several goals for the "education" of children. It is a bonechiller, so be forwarned.

You send your child to school. Why? According to the UN, education means:

(b) The development of respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms, and for the principles enshrined in the Charter of the United Nations;

c) The preparation of the child for responsible life in a free society, in the spirit of understanding, peace, tolerance, equality of sexes, and friendship among all peoples, ethnic, national and religious groups and persons of indigenous origin;

(e) The development of respect for the natural environment.

Is this not a warning of shrillest tone to you? The signing and ratification of this miserable piece of UN overreach involves gov't directly in the raising of your children. It mandates what your children are taught, and how they are taught.

Please, support the effort to simply say, "The liberty of parents to direct the upbringing and education of their children is a fundamental right."

Sign the petition if so led.
http://www.parentalrights.org/index.asp?Type=B_BASIC&SEC={8 1C1F260-4A9F-4013-8164-68A360E295A5}







Patricia
Treaties which the US sign and the Senate ratifies are the Supreme Law of the Land and they even supersede the US Constitution.


In Short:
Read Article 29 of UNRC:

http://www1.umn.edu/humanrts/instree/k2crc.htm

A Treaty with the UN would be the Supreme law of the land. Without an amendment the US Constitution has no explicit language regarding the rights of parents to direct the very upbringing of thier own children.

Please support this simple, unobtrusive, worthwhile effort to protect our liberty.

https://www.thedatabank.com/dpg/385/personal2.asp?formid=si gnup

svpallava
svpallava:

But that's not the case here. Roper was not based on foreign laws. And the US is quite willing to force other nations to change its laws for the US benefit.

Roper cites UNCRC as universal view
'Roper asserts far more, it turns out, than the prior use of foreign law in contemporary constitutional cases would have suggested. It blesses in the contemporary era a new doctrine of constitutional adjudication, what has been called “constitutional comparativism,” that is very far indeed from mere flirtation. It invites the deployment of a sweeping body of legal materials from outside U.S. domestic law into the process of interpreting the U.S. Constitution — and, moreover, invites it into American society’s most difficult and contentious “values” questions.'

--Kenneth Anderson
http://www.hoover.org/publications/policyreview/2932196.htm l

Yttrium
Even if there was such an amendment, a treaty ratified by the US Senate would take precedence over the US Constitution including any amendments. Basically a treaty acts as if it was part of the Constitution.

Roper
"It blesses in the contemporary era a new doctrine of constitutional adjudication, what has been called “constitutional comparativism,” that is very far indeed from mere flirtation. It invites the deployment of a sweeping body of legal materials from outside U.S. domestic law into the process of interpreting the U.S. Constitution..."

It does not. Read below from Kennedy's decision. It does not use foreign law to justify its legal reasoning in overturning Thompson, simply that such international consensus gives support to their rationale that execution of juvenile offenders is disproportionate punishment and thus a violation of the 8th Amendment.


"The overwhelming weight of international opinion against the juvenile death penalty is not controlling here, but provides respected and significant confirmation for the Court’s determination that the penalty is disproportionate punishment for offenders under 18."

Akagi
The third section in this amendment states:

"SECTION 3
No treaty may be adopted nor shall any source of international law be employed to supersede, modify, interpret, or apply to the rights guaranteed by this article."

Why don't you sign the petition? All are welcome.


Kevin
I would also add any Judge devating form the Law of the Land, would be removed from the beanch. The next time a judge decided to make you a right, or change a law to suit their own belifes would be removed.
Kirk

It is nothing less than outrageous
that a Constitutional amendment is even needed. What's worse, even if it were ratified, it wouldn't do any good.

The treasonous traitors who are trying to overthrow U.S. sovereignty don't play by the rules. They are like children playing a game who change the rules in the middle of the game when it is apparent they are losing.

To think the United States of America, which has fought two world wars and lost hundreds of thousands of its men and women to protect U.S. sovereignty, should submit to the laws of other countries is beyond incredulous!! We might as well tear up the Constitution today if we go along with this.

The very fact that we have a Constitution at all is evidence that our country was intended to be SELF GOVERNING. This intention is found in every historical document from the Declaration of Independence on. To say otherwise is to ignore all of our nation’s history and everything that makes us who we are.

These whackos are not going to let a mere Constitutional amendment stand in their way. They intend to overthrow our nation and our way of life. Our only hope is that enough people will get educated and say NO before it is too late.

Petitions are a waste of time
What we need are guns; and lots of them.

False
This immigrant is subversive


Akagi writes: 1:29 PM
Yttrium
Even if there was such an amendment, a treaty ratified by the US Senate would take precedence over the US Constitution including any amendments. Basically a treaty acts as if it was part of the Constitution.
=======================

"Article Six establishes the United States Constitution and the laws and treaties of the United States made in accordance with it as the supreme law of the land, and fulfills other purposes"

This is the way it is, not the silly words of the subversive immigrant akagi.


"This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.

The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States."

Yttrium
Just tell akagi he is clueless and that is the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

If you enter into any argument on a personal level with him, he will do nothing but bring up an endless parade of side issues to subvert the very Foundations.
That's because he is truly an ignorant immigrant who has never learned the American System of Government.

Any fool can argue as he does and stay ignorant, let him keep his ignorance as no man can heal his twisted thinking but himself.

And he loves his own ignorance too much to learn anything

I want you to sign it too, talent scout
:)

How about this for an amendment?
We should not be bound by any treaties with the UN. We should define treaties as with specific, individual countries.


control itself
"In framing a government which is to be administered by men over men, the great difficulty lies in this: you must first enable the government to control the governed; and in the next place oblige it to control itself." --James Madison, Federalist No. 51

Oblige it to control itself requires action today.
This government has gone insane with power and it will be stopped only by us or their bringing us all down into destruction

I signed it yesterday

As a token for playing games, that is all it is my friend.

Its illegal to place any parent in America and his child under the unelected UN.

They have zero force of law in the United States to begin with

Yttrium Location: WA
Reply # 1
Date: Mar 30, 2009 - 1:58 PM EST
I want you to sign it too, talent scout
:)

TS
A ratified treaty becomes the Supreme Law of the Land and the US is bound--legally--to follow the dictates of the treaty. It can under the conditions of the treaty of course withdraw from that treaty and at that point it is no longer bound by it. But if the US ratified the UN Rights of the Child, it would be bound by the provisions of that treaty.


I will not obey any thing the UN says
Yttrium Location: WA
Reply # 2
Date: Mar 30, 2009 - 2:02 PM EST
How about this for an amendment?
We should not be bound by any treaties with the UN. We should define treaties as with specific, individual countries.
======================
I do not now, or will I ever recognize them as having any authority to pass a law on me in this world

The only way the UN
Can enforce law in America is to do it with criminal actions of force.
They will be rebelled agaist.

Go home to red china akagi
You do not belong here

One world government
is the goal of those who support Marxism, Socialism, Islamist Fundamentalism and Fascism. The ultimate purpose is total control over every human being on the face of the earth.

The move to one world government has been going on among covert operatives for decades. Those who keep themselves informed have been aware of this movement from the beginning.

Operatives keep their aims hidden from all but their closest associates. They operate under many other banners and names, but in the end, they want a world without any safe havens.

The downfall of totalitarian dictators has always been that someone, somewhere disagreed with them and so offered a place for dissenters to flee. (A place such as the United States) By erasing every safe haven and ensuring that dissenters have no place to run, the tyrannical would-be dictators can assume total control over everyone.

The world will be run by an elite group of managers who will have at their disposal all the wealth and amenities supplied by a world of servants who will supply the labor allowing this ruling elite to live in luxury.

Before you lend your support to people who promise you everything you want, when you have no power to hold them accountable, you better stop and think about what this world will be like when there is NO ONE TO HELP, AND NO PLACE TO RUN, if you don’t like the end result.

Do you really trust anyone that much?

This is the Law
"This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.

The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States."

The enforcement of UN laws
would come from Pres. Obama, and Congressional leaders Pelosi and Reid, would it not?

AGW laws will start with the UN, and we know our current elected leaders are anxious to take control of industry, commerce and transpotation using int'l carbon emissions agreements.

From there, it is a very short leap indeed to forcing children to receive a government approved education.

Any one can abuse power
Yttrium Location: WA
Reply # 1
Date: Mar 30, 2009 - 2:20 PM EST
The enforcement of UN laws
would come from Pres. Obama, and Congressional leaders Pelosi and Reid, would it not?
======================
They have zero legal authority to enforce UN made laws on the citizens of America.

They have no authority in law up and above their own job descriptions, and this is not a part of their job description and we all know it.

Yes, they have the power to abuse the law, the constitution are are now doing that very thing.

They are at war with higher powers than they are and are the act of crimes against natural law and are already judged and do not know it, it appears to me anyway.

The natural law has already given all men the death sentence as we all die.

I have the power to decide what path I choose to face death, and the government may kill me for my choices, but better men than I am have laid down their lives willingly for Liberty.
So will I

Yttrium writes:
From there, it is a very short leap indeed to forcing children to receive a government approved education
=====================
Because others would use force to indoctrinate my grandchildren, I will rebel against their force.
Just like my ancestors.

"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."

"Rebellion against tyrants is obedience to God." -
-- Benjamin Franklin

Constitution
It's not that difficult. You don't need intent or any of this nonsense. First Amendment? It simply states that Congress shall make no laws on religion or speech. It doesn't say that Congress can make laws so long as it follows some set of rules that the Supreme Court comes up with. Yes, that even means that the Federal level cannot create laws on libel, slander, shouting fire in a theater, etc. It is up to the States to create the laws on libel, slander, shouting fire, etc. The Second Amendment says that the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. It does not state that certain categories of weapons are permissible, only those in general use of the times, and the other goofy things the Supreme Court came up with, it simply says that the Federal level has no say whatsoever on the argument of firearms regulations, period. That is left up to the states. If Illinois wants to ban every single weapon in existence and Indiana lets people mount a functioning GAU-8/A Avenger on their lawn, it is not up to the Federal level to decide this.

The particular case in question is cruel *AND* unusual. It was not meant to stop punishments that were simply cruel or simply unusual, it was meant to stop punishments that were created for specific purposes that were cruel. Meaning, if the punishment is regularly and consistently meted out, it is no longer cruel and unusual. Punishments are by their nature cruel and you can create punishments that are not cruel but are unusual (see the Texas judge who makes shoplifters stand out in front of stores with a marquee stating they're a shoplifter) but never both at the same time.

It is a simple document, it says what it means. It doesn't need to be interpreted because the language is straight forward and clear. Any attempts to interpret the Constitution, like referring to some clowns in Europe, is activism.

This government under Obama
Has taken a street gang mentality to ignore all decency of law and order.
This man Obama is drunk with power, and his own importance.

The fact is, he is a complete fraud and no better than a common criminal

liberal idiocy (JMO51)
JMO51 opines: "No matter how bad a decision a president believes the courts have made, when that President refuses to abide by that ruling he or she is in absolute violation of a core principle of the consitution which is the seperation of powers.

An action that aggregious would be treason."

You are totally, 100% wrong. When the president ignores an unconstitutional Court ruling, he is acting PRECISELY according to the doctrine of separation of powers. You libs think that the Judicial branch somehow is supreme over the other branches of government. It isn't. Our system of government is "the buck stops nowhere." Each branch is supposed to have a way of corralling the egregious acts of the other two, else we have no separation of powers, and an unconstitutional government.

If Congress doesn't like what SCOTUS says about a law, they can re-pass the law with a provision that it is exempt from the Court's purview -- and the Court can do nothing about it. Similarly, if the Pres. doesn't like a law, he can refuse to enforce it; if he doesn't like a SCOTUS decision, he can flip the bird at the Court and not enforce it. In either of those cases Congress must then either impeach the pres., or go along with his actions.

Your way of thinking makes SCOTUS supreme over the executive and legislative branches -- which is the exact opposite of the meaning of "separation of powers."

Justin
Great Post! I'm glad to see you have a blog here also.

Hope to see you April 15th in Indianapolis!

http://www.indianapolisteaparty.com/

Easy to say
>The LAWS of the Constitution are plain and simple<

Yea, and it was written in the 1780s, when the world was a much different place.

There were no automobiles, no airplanes, no polluting industries, no ballistic missles, no huge population of non-white, non-Northern Europeans, and open land in most every direction as far as the eye can see.

As the world got more complicated, the laws got more complicated.

It's true that The U.S.Constitution is THE SUPREME law of the land, but where in the Constitution does it provide for air traffic control?

But are there not inalienable rights?
I do understand the fear of an international ruling body that has the power to dictate laws concerning internal affairs of our state.

BUT... aren't there some universal rights of man which ought to be recognized and enforced?

Do we not have some obligation to the world to participate in the UN and abide by morality as expressed on the planet today?

How else can we (as humans, not just Americans) advance humanitarian agendas across international lines?

TS
To go home to Red China, there has to be a Red China to go home to and there isn't as I explained to you. Also, I am not from where you claim is Red China and finally, thousands of Americans live and work in "Red" China and don't find it all that distasteful to do so.


Pancho
No automobiles, but still had horses. Federal government didn't regulate how many horses you could run on a street. No polluting industries? Get real, the industrial revelution was in full swing when the Constitution was written, with factories pumping out so much pollution the Sierra Club would no longer exist due to the high rate of strokes they would have (note, it was private industry that cleaned up itself, clean factories using cleaner technologies are cheaper, not Government law). There was a large slave population, large native population (it wasn't until after the Constitution was written did they start to get wiped out by Unconstitutional wars against the tribes).

The world isn't more complicated as far as the US Constitution is involved. The tennents still remain the same as they did then, the Federal government does not have the authority to do much of anything, all those rules concerning new inventions and new situations are left to the States.

The US Constitution is not a living document. It is a grammatically straight forward document that says what the Feds can do and nothing can be interpreted into it. Note it doesn't say you can interpret it, and it is a negative document, meaning if it doesn't say you can interpret the amendments around contemporary issues, you can't. That's why it has an amendment process.

akagi
Go home to red china

Life, Liberty and pursuit of happiness
paranoidmystic writes:
But are there not inalienable rights?
I do understand the fear of an international ruling body that has the power to dictate laws concerning internal affairs of our state.

BUT... aren't there some universal rights of man which ought to be recognized and enforced?
======================

Yeah
The UN needs to sign onto defending the Declaration of Independence and US Constitution which has been the Leading Documents in the world of Governments recognizing these rights for 230 years or so.
=======================
paranoidmystic writes:
Do we not have some obligation to the world to participate in the UN and abide by morality as expressed on the planet today?
=====================
America has been the refuge for the preservation of the Individuals God Given Rights since 1776.
Its time the UN recognize the truth of the Founders and support America instead of Saudi Arabia etc. over America.
The UN is known only for sweet sounding words...BUT rotten, lying cheating, thieving deeds.

The UN is the most disgusting and corrupt organization on the earth.
Their "officials" have been involved in the most crooked schemes we have seen in this day and time.



=====================
paranoidmystic writes:
How else can we (as humans, not just Americans) advance humanitarian agendas across international lines?
=======================
Promote and defend the 230 year old American Declaration of Independence and Constitution.

paranoidmystic
These "unalienable rights" are understood as God given and not originating in man. If they were to originate in man they would not be unalienable as they would be arbitrary and subject to change as man sees fit. So NO, we do not have a humanitarian obligation. Unless you can point to an absolute foundation for what is right or wrong, you are merely blowing smoke. Do you know the beginning from the end? If not how will you then determine if your agenda is correct? If you claim to know it, then obviously you have been in contact with a divine all-knowing being and "humanitarianism" has nothing to do with it. If it is your desire to be submitted to such a government then move, but do not seek to impose a failed philosophy on us.

not needed
I understand the sentiment behind such an amendment, but these justices already ignore the rest of the Constitution, and should be removed for malfeasance, but with two parties in powers who choose to govern outside of their delegated powers it won't happen. At some point we will either be given over to the statist agenda, or we will have one or more leaders emerge who will rally the people to fight against the criminals who have shanghaied the Federal government in order to fulfill their lust for power.

"a failed philosophy"
A failed philosophy?

Tell me if I'm wrong, but my sense about the trajectory of history is that we (humanity) is moving toward ideals of freedom and prosperity.

Obviously we still have a far far way to go, but a casual glance backwards reveals how far we've come. It's no stretch to condemn slavery these days. So why not strengthen that condemnation with binding international legislation?

What about being a responsible member of the global community is so wrong?

akagi
Despite my not liking your aloof, pessimistic posts, and talentscout's obvious dislike for you, I still find your post's interesting and informing, so don't go :). I would like to point out that as far making treaties goes, that this applies only to two areas, Commerce and Common Defense, otherwise it would not be under the Authority of the United States, as the powers given are only for these two subjects. The federal government was not given the power for general legislation, this means that they cannot be an agent treating with other countries in such areas except on false premises.

TS
You make the great point that the US has the excellent example of what a strong Declaration and Constitution can do for a country.

Why not draft and accept documents of the same power for the world community?

There seems to be (in the conservative worldview) an extreme distrust for corrupt members of the UN, and yet are not politicians of every nation corrupt? Will you say US senators are not corrupt?

What keeps the corruption somewhat at bay is the strength of the core documents and the adherence to those documents.

When the most powerful nation in the world refuses to recognize core documents of the UN, we turn our back on the very notion of an international community. Why should this be?

Even if the UN is not the proper international entity, can we not agree that there ultimately should be one?

Again, can we not as humans eventually agree on basic inalienable rights? Can we not muster the wisdom to at least begin this process?

paranoidmystic
Sir it seems to me that you did not fully read my post. You talk of the trajectory history as something that is already determined. I ask you again, do you know the beginning from the end? If not then I will assume you believe we are here by chance. That being the case, where do your unalienable rights arise? Here in the 50, the understanding is from God, that is why they are unalienable. Who or what is a world legislation to determine this. Most of the world governments seek to strip people of their rights, and you suggest we submit ourselves to this? It is always the pride of man that thinks he can be wiser than God that ends up creating an oppressive government and will squelch any opposition. We have already seen this in the Soviet Union, Cuba, and the like. Your philosophy is failed because you fail to determine from whence rights originate and for what purpose do they serve.

We already have it
paranoidmystic writes:
TS
You make the great point that the US has the excellent example of what a strong Declaration and Constitution can do for a country.

Why not draft and accept documents of the same power for the world community
=====================
Where can you or I or any man improve on the already written andeternal truths as listed in the D of I and the Bill of Rights for all men?

Its time to defend it and we all learn the meaning of those documents than cannot be improved upon

Actually akagi
Can do what he does here from red china, the internet.
I would like to see him deported
=================

Lenard Location: MD
Reply # 2
Date: Mar 30, 2009 - 4:31 PM EST
akagi
Despite my not liking your aloof, pessimistic posts, and talentscout's obvious dislike for you, I still find your post's interesting and informing, so don't go :).


mystic, you write:
Again, can we not as humans eventually agree on basic inalienable rights? Can we not muster the wisdom to at least begin this process?
=========================

Can you name something of an unalienable right the UN could offer that the Declaration of Independence and Constitution do not speak of?

In America, the Republic
Each City, County, and State has recognized Rights to school their children in the areas of knowledge the Cities, the Counties and the States place the higher values on to teach and learn.

There is nothing a collective world body has to offer and then use force to compel that has an ounce of freedom in it.

Its impossible for a select group of unelected men whom some are from the most oppressive nations on earth offer of any value to me and my fellow citizens.

The UN is a corrupt organization filled with tyrants of every stripe and color

Kill a woman and get 6 months
If we let the laws of other countries influence our laws, then what about the South American country who's punishment for killing a woman amounts to a slap on the wrist? Our laws should reflect our values and our culture. If I want legal drug use and rape to be a misdemenor then I'll go where those are the laws. If I want to be beheaded for arguing with my husband I know where to go for that,too. If we have one law, one currency, one acceptable religion in the world, won't we soon have one leader? Orwell was wrong "1984" was 1939 and appears to be 2009. Is big brother designing your car? Could be.

A Constitutional Amendment is not needed
"In their misguided internationalism, Justices Breyer and Kennedy are, he says, 'declaring nothing less than the power of foreign governments to change the meaning of the United States Constitution.'"

There is a word for this. It's called "Treason." No, we do not need an amendment as the perversion of law is already expressly prohibited in the Constitution itself:

U.S. Constitution, Article 6

The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; ...

All we need is a People willing to uphold our Constitution by impeaching those judges who do not. Judging by the Congress we've elected, the People are unwilling to do so.

Amen! Joel-De Oppresso Liber, but...
I agree with you in theory here. I think you are EXACTLY right when you write:

"What is needed is... a proper understanding of what is already written, and a willingness to follow it. We must refuse to have any foreign authority over us. Withdraw from the UN, and any other treaties that infringe upon our God-given, and Constitutionally guaranteed rights etc..."

The problem is I have no ability to transform the inner convictions of those in power. My only option is to restrain their ability affect my life based on their wrongheaded and unconstitutional ideas.

HOW do you propose this happen outside of an amendment? What should be DONE? I am not being sarcastic here. I am certainly open to any and all ideas, approaches, and proposals from all angles on this.

This is not a theoretical discussion for 2 million homeschoolers plus other parents who may not happen to have the same convictions as those in power for the moment regarding childrearing.

This is where we live and breathe and what we do all day for a a decade or two. We have to deal with real threats in ways that really work. Start reading the Homeschool Court Report by Homeschool Legal Defense Association and you will see we are not dealing with imagined threats.

TS
Maybe, maybe not. The "Golden Shield" Project (Jindun Gongcheng)(aka Great Firewall of China) may indeed block th.com. TH.com no doubt has columns on Tibet and Taiwan and the like and something that the people in the Public Security Bureau of the PRC would rather its citizens not have access too.


OK, OK
No conservative likes the UN, I get that.

But really, can we not agree that there ought to be one day a universal declaration of the rights of man?

Isn't that the direction we're heading as human beings? Even if it takes 1,000 more years?

Obama's Education intentions
Let's all be clear about what Obama's intentions for education really are.

1. We know that he has proposed a Zero to Five program, to get children into state care from the moment they are born. States will soon be given grants to begin moving towards universal preschool.

2. The confirmation of US Deputy Attorney General David Ogden: "HSLDA opposed Ogden’s nomination due to his demonstrated hostility toward parental rights and family values, and his belief that the rules found in the U.N. Convention on the Rights of the Child are already binding on the United States, even though the U.S. Senate has never ratified the treaty."

Please, let's take peaceful action right now, and protect our right to raise our children. The UN is a body that does nothing but spread socialism all over the world. The UN Rights of a Child Convention mandates that all children must be educated in the goals of the UN.


Sign the petition here:
http://www.parentalrights.org/index.asp?Type=B_BASIC&SEC={0 9E2123F-B73A-4804-91AA-A3977C0FF462}


paranoidmystic
Ok, once again into the breach; What to you would be the basis of those rights? Are they unalieanable or can they be altered according to the dictates of man? Also, what is the purpose of these rights? Just a few questions to ponder, which have already been pondered(why we have what we have), and which you need to set forth answers to.

American soverignty
Foreign laws have no place in American courts and any judge who uses or cites them in rulings or opinions should be impeached and removed from the bench and disbarred.In addition, charges of treason should not be ruled out.

Eric in NJ
I wish I could think of some examples of judges being impeached for reasons you have cited. The legislative has completely failed in this duty, and I think it will never be recovered.

Eric-NJ
I can spell "Lawyer" and we have more of that vocation than we need in my family, but I basically agree with Ur thoughts on American Sovernty. I have lived in a few Foreign Countries under the Jurisdiction of SOFA(STATUS of Forces Agreement)and without exception, I would not give up my Rights as an American GI in exchange for the host country's idea of JUSTICE..I sorta LIKE IT HERE..CHEERS

The Obama Deception
Start here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrpRocaEfQE

Watch and learn.


paranoidmystic writes:

OK, OK
No conservative likes the UN, I get that.

But really, can we not agree that there ought to be one day a universal declaration of the rights of man?
======================

Ever heard the very old and true proverb?

"Nothing straight is born of something crooked."



Or this one?

The eyes of a fool sees all that is afar off, but is blind to his own surroundings.

UN has nothing to offer the USA we have not had since 1776.



talent scout in CO
wrote:
"UN has nothing to offer the USA we have not had since 1776."

Did you come up with that or are you quoting someone? If so, who? I plan to be using it in the future and would like to credit the right source.

Homeschool Mom AZ Location: AZ
I just now wrote it, but I am just putting into my own words what is in evidence and spoken of by millions of us who understand our nations Spirit and Foundations.

Many have said it before me in the same meaning, but that is my way of saying it here tonight

"An American Amendment"
"Professor Rosenkranz’s draft Twenty-Eighth Amendment is simple yet powerful: 'This Constitution was ordained and established by the People of the United States, and so it shall not be construed by reference to the contemporary laws of other nations.'"

Where do I sign? :)

Seriously?
"UN has nothing to offer the USA we have not had since 1776."

Oh right, because in 1776 we were perfectly just with no slavery and equal rights for women and we wouldn't have benefited at all from a universal declaration of the rights of humanity.

I guess I forgot how awesome we were back then and how without blemish we are today and that there's no need for us to participate in bettering the world because we are already so flawless.

My mistake.

Rights for women in UN member countries?
@"paranoidmystic"...

Slavery and lack of rights for women, were he or she truly concerned about these matters, are still alive and well in many of the countries that this "paranoidmystic" wants to join us with at the hip!

Breathtaking!

Hillary Considered Rights of Child
Someone should double check and make sure that Obama and Hillary haven't entangled the U.S. with the U.N.'s Rights of the Child because there were recent reports that they were considering signing onto that dangerous bill that would jeporadize the welfare of the minor children in America if one were to actually read that insane law. And, Hillary went to Beijing not so very long ago and held a women's rights conference in a country where they have no rights and were killing pregnance women carrying girls and killing girl babies! And, Dr. Orly Taitz, and attorney, is filing a case stating that Barack Hussein Obama is usurping the U.S. Constitution and has several social security numbers and names and isn't eligible to be U.S. President and alleged fraud on several issues, so if none of those in Washington D.C. have ever read the U.S. Constitution; or don't understand it nor comprehend it since 1-20-09 as originally written and intended then they should all be removed, recalled or step up to the plate and remember that the U.S. Constitution is the reason that the U.S. Justice Department exists and their oath is the reason they are in positions of power paid by the taxpayers - a reminder - to uphold the U.S. Constitution and protect the welfare of minor children and protect the welfare and security of the American people who pay their wages! Now, hopefully, they will go forth and do the right thing!

Parental Rights Update
Breaking News: Parental Rights Press Conference

This afternoon at 3:00 (EDT), Representative Pete Hoekstra (MI) and Senator Jim DeMint (SC) will hold a joint press conference at Upper Senate Park, next to the Russell Office Building in Washington, D.C., to announce the introduction of the Parental Rights Amendment in both houses of Congress. Perhaps you will be able to catch a glimpse of it this evening on the national news!

Paranoid mystic in CA
No. The philosophy of had been worked out correctly in 1776, it was the application that had not been worked out properly. That has since been resolved.
Sign Up to Post Your CommentsSign Up to Post Your Comments
If you are already registered, click here to login. Otherwise, please take a few seconds to register with Townhall.com. Once you sign up, you’ll be able to post your comments immediately, use the action center, get podcasts, and more!
Note: Fields marked with a red asterisk (*) are required.
Salutation:
First Name:
*
Last Name:
*
Email:
*
Nickname:
*
Note: Nick name will be shown when you post comments.
Address 1:
*
Address 2:
City:
*
State:
*
Zip:
*
Phone:
      
Your daily must-read of conservative columns, cartoons and news. Coulter, Sowell, Krauthammer and more.
(Bi-Weekly) We highlight the best opportunities from our partners for surveys, action items and more.