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Tuesday, September 09, 2008
Ken Blackwell :: Townhall.com Columnist
Candidates' Abortion Views Inform
by Ken Blackwell
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The contrast between the abortion views of all four national nominees is so stark that it cannot help but become an issue. Not only because it is a hot-button for millions, but also because of what it says about the candidates’ willingness to level with the American people.

On Meet the Press this past Sunday, Senator Joe Biden said he believes life begins at conception, and this belief is shaped by his Catholic faith. But he also said he supports abortion rights because he will not impose his beliefs on others.

That is utterly absurd. Elected leaders are elected to impose their views on us on all manner of issues.

For those, like me, who grew up in the Midwest clinging to their bible and gun, I offer some simple logic. If an elected leader believes it is wrong to steal, then he votes to make theft illegal. If he has a religious faith that teaches it is wrong to steal, then that faith influences his belief. That religious belief does not in the slightest de-legitimize his vote. If he shares his beliefs with the voters, then he should vote accordingly.

I am sure Mr. Biden believes it is wrong to steal. And that it is wrong to murder, to assault someone, or to abuse a child. The Catholic Church teaches that all those things are wrong. Yet would Mr. Biden vote to keep those things illegal? I am sure he would. He would not refrain from voting by saying he ought not to impose his beliefs on others.

We all have beliefs regarding right and wrong that do not involve criminal sanctions. If you believe it is wrong to commit adultery or to lie, then you are willing to express that belief. Mr. Biden did not refuse to condemn John Edwards’ cheating on his wife, Elizabeth, when that adulterous affair became a media story last month. You did not hear him say that he ought not to impose his views on others.

Mr. Biden’s statements are in accord with those of his presidential candidate. At Saddleback Church last month, Senator Barack Obama affirmed his support for abortion rights. But when asked when a child should receive the protection of the law he responded that deciding when life begins is above his pay grade. How is it possible to take a stand to condone abortion when you refuse to take a stand on whether the living creature inside the mother’s womb is a human being? How can any person vote to allow such a thing to happen without forming a belief as to whether a human life is lost?

Refusing to answer such questions is like voting “present” instead of yes or no in the Illinois legislature. Voting present simply affirms that you are there in the chamber, but refuse to make a decision. Not exactly a profile in courage.

The very idea of such a dodge is so ludicrous for anyone who claims the title of “leader” that it left Rudy Giuliani, himself a strong and decisive leader, laughing during his prime-time speech during the Republican convention. When you elect a president, or a governor, or a mayor, you expect them to take stands, make decisions and see them through. An executive who refuses to decide will be run out of office by the voters.

Taken at their word, Messrs. Obama and Biden’s comments demonstrate they do not really understand what an executive actually does.

Contrast their statements with the responses of the Republican nominees. When asked about when life begins, instead of meandering off on some professorial monologue that ended with a dodge, Senator John McCain’s answer was two simple words: “at conception.” Even though Mr. McCain reaches out to moderate and independent voters, many of whom support abortion rights, he never equivocates on his belief that life begins at conception, and therefore that the unborn should be protected by the law.

Governor Sarah Palin’s answer is even more meaningful, because she answers with actions instead of words. She and her husband, Todd, knew their unborn baby would have Down syndrome, and they welcomed him as a wonderful gift from God.

The American people want moral clarity. They want leaders who know what they believe and are unashamed to stand on their convictions. Regardless of voters’ personal beliefs on abortion, they should prefer candidates who level with them and act according to those beliefs, rather than dodges and inconsistencies.

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About The Author
Mr. Blackwell, a contributing editor at Townhall.com, is a senior fellow at the Family Research Council and American Civil Rights Union.
 
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Commander in Chief Already
Subject: Governor Palin, Commander in Chief
Who Would You Trust With National Security? Obama, Marxist Community Agitator or Governor Sarah Palin, Commander in Chief Already?

Subject: Sarah Palin's Experience and Quals.....
SARAH PALIN'S SECURITY CLEARANCE

Before you dismiss the fact that Sarah Palin is Commander of the
Alaska National Guard, consider this:

Alaska is the first line of defense in our missile interceptor
defense system. The 49th Missile Defense Battalion of the Alaska
National Guard is the unit that protects the entire nation from
ballistic missile attacks. It's on permanent active duty, unlike
other Guard units.

As governor of Alaska , Palin is briefed on highly classified
military issues, homeland security, and counterterrorism. Her
exposure to classified material may rival even Biden's and
certainly by far exceeds Obama's.

She's also the commander in chief of the Alaska State Defense
Force (ASDF), a federally recognized militia incorporated into
Homeland Security's counterterrorism plans.

Palin is privy to military and intelligence secrets that are vital to
the entire country's defense. Given Alaska 's proximity to Russia ,
she may have security clearances we don't even know about.
According to the Washington Post, she first met with McCain in
February, but nobody ever found out. This is a woman used to
keeping secrets.

She can be entrusted with our national security, because she
already is. . . . her experience in keeping the homeland safe fits perfectly with her image as the competent American woman.

Compare her Experience and Resume with the Messiah Obama's???

Governor Palin, Commander in Chief Already, wins hands down.


Moral license on abortion
Joseph,

Your post is an interesting one to me because I too am amazed by people who profess to be prolife, and yet have no problem allowing abortion choice. I have decided such people only have a vague sense that abortion is somehow wrong, but not to the degree that it should be disallowed.

In their view, everyone should be free to form their own opinion about the moral acceptability of abortion. This is the same mindset that many had in our nation's past when the slavery of blacks held sway in our country.

There simply is no larger question of right and wrong in the minds of many Americans today in allowing a right of abortion. Obama and Biden are perfect examples of this. Both are totally blind to their own moral relativiism on this profoundly important issue for America.

The forest vs. the trees
(Nobama): "(abortion) is not a decision for politicians, this is a decision for the medical community and the woman involved."

I noticed in your post on abortion that you focused solely on special cases where the question of the woman's life, etc. come into play. While I agree that these kinds of circumstances need to be carefully examined, I also noticed that you made no mention of the far greater number of abortions that are performed for reasons that have nothing to do with special considerations. How about we start by outlawing all abortions other than those that fall into the category of special cases, and then we carefully define what is permissible in those instances? Would this satisfy your concerns about the special circumstances you described?

I can't believe the comments posted here
Joe Biden is correct not to impose his beliefs on others. There are hundreds of variables. Here is one: what if a woman becomes pregnant and after 5 weeks of pregnancy she is diagnosed with breast cancer? I have read of this happening. Her doctor advises her to have a lumpectomy, mastectomy or whatever type of surgery. She is then told she has to have radiation and chemotherapy but it would be toxic to the fetus. Should she put off having this life saving surgery and chemo till after the baby is born?? This is not a decision for Politicians, this is a decision for the medical community and the woman involved. Also, here's another scenario. A woman who is two months pregnant is in a bad car accident. She is brain dead after the accident and is on a respirator. The family decides they want to disconnect the respirator after the doctors advise them that she can not live without out being on a respirator. Do you advocate the woman being on a respirator for the next six months till the baby is able to be born by a c-section? Also there are high costs involved here. There are dozens of scenarios I could go into. Also, what if the baby is harmed during the accident but it is still alive but will be disabled, then what? Politicians should stay out of it, they are not God or doctors. Also, consider that John McCain believes in stem cell research, but he says life begins at conception. I am willing to vote for McCain/Palin because they have more common sense positions on drilling and taxes but I'm beginning to wonder.

Steven

"...the vast majority of the people in the US
believe in choice, no matter what they may think
about abortion personally."

There is one way to determine if the majority of the people in the US believe in choice (meaning abortion). Put a referendum on the ballot and allow a vote by the people. Where in the constitution do the founding fathers state that the SCOTUS can make law by fiat?

Senator Joe Biden said,
"he believes life begins at conception, and this belief is shaped by his Catholic faith. But he also said he supports abortion rights because he will not impose his beliefs on others."

And yet, he believes in abortion and imposes his belief on the fetal human.

Lynda

Lynda, the Bible says, "Thou shalt not steal."

Is a law prohibiting theft a religious imposition on people?

Americans want
people of character; not people who are characters.

Rape
If a father commits murder,
do we execute his child?
Why execute the child if the father commits rape?
Execute the father,
support the mother,
and there are tens of thousands of people waiting for a chance to adopt the child.


Leadership
Liberal posters here make clear they do not understand leadership. Whether "elected leaders are elected to impose their views on us on all manner of issues" or not that is what leaders do. Doing so does not make them Fascists, Socialists, Communists, Ayatollahs or any other kind of despots or tyrants.
What hypocrites or plain, unthinking, emoting loons you Liberals are. What do you imagine, if capable of imagining at all, hope and change - the whole basis of Obama's campaign - means if not imposing his will and views on us?
No thank you Liberals, I will not stand for the will and views of a person so strongly influenced by Socialism, Communism, Islam and Black Liberation theology to be imposed on me.

Wrong never makes sense
So a growing child in the womb is dependent upon his mother. Is this growing child alive? Yes the growing child is alive.
So the cat sitting on the stool next to me, Dotty, is also alive. What does it take to get rid of the growing child? The growing child must be killed to get rid of him. Now I could kill the cat sitting next to me but there is probably a law against that. So my cat has a right to live but growing children do not. Because they depend on their Mom's.

Ken Blackwell
I think Ken should have worded it differently. “Elected leaders are elected to emphasize their views on all manner of issues”.

fishy
So the mother should be allowed to kill her baby when all she needs to do is carry the baby full term and give it up for adoption?
A measley 9 months total for the life of her baby.
You don't think that murder especially scars a person for life and perhaps more so when you've murdered your own baby.
Do women really need to be this selfish?

Pro-choice on slavery
Several years ago, I was caught in a brief conversation with a female colleague I had just met one day, and somehow we got into politics and abortion. She said that she, just like Biden and many others now, thought life began at conception and would never have an abortion herself but that she wouldn't impose her moral values on others. In an almost knee-jerk response, I responded that I felt the same way about slavery. I said that I believed that blacks were human beings and equal to whites and that I would bever keep one as a slave because it is not right for one human being to own another; however, I realized that other people don't believe the same as I do, and I didn't think that I should be imposing my morals on others. I don't understand why people would see that as absurd but that they would make an equivalent comment about abortion. I can understand people who believe that life doesn't begin until birth, med-school graduation, etc, can be pro-choice witout being hypocritical, but this Biden type response is intellectually dishonest and hypocritical.

DA
You see Biden believes that murder is wrong and he therefore imposes his values on you. Unless you feel we should be free to murder?

ken blackwell
---That is utterly absurd. Elected leaders are elected to impose their views on us on all manner of issues.---

Not a big believer in personal liberty, are you?

Does that make you a fascist, communist or totalitarian? They all like to push their views, also.

Steven,
No clue what you're talking about.

No innocent child would go to hell no matter who his/her mother and father are.

Rapists and baby-murderers, however, ...

ChiRoMan and Mother of 4
Tell me, do the two of you believe in hell?

If you do, then why would you bring any child
into the world under any circumstances if that
would be their possible destination?

christianlib,
Murder is murder. Why should the penalty? A woman who hires a hitman in a "clinic" to murder her unborn baby deserves the same penalty she'd get if she hired a hit man off the street to murder her parents.

As for rape victims, its very sad that sometimes a raped woman conceives a child from the incident. But to put it in the terms we all learned in childhood, two wrongs don't make a right.

A woman carrying a rapist's baby deserves all compassion, but putting the baby to death for his/her father's crime is not a legitimate option. If the rapist is discovered and convicted his assets should be confiscated, sold for their fair value, and the proceeds divided among all his children.

If he should ever make any money again, he should be required to pay 10 times the normal amount of child support for that income level into a blind trust to be divided between the mother and child. Forever. The mother and child should also receive a share of the rapist's estate no less than the proportion divided among all the rapist's children and other victims if any.

If the rapist is never identified/never caught that's hard and unfair but that's why we call them "Crime Victims" rather than lottery winners. And punishing the baby for the father's crime remains absolutely unacceptable.

Once the crime has occurred the woman can't be retroactively unraped. Pretending that everything will be just like it used to be if only she murders the baby is simply silly.

Better idea -- a Federal "Shall Issue" policy on concealed carry, gun safety/basic marksmanship training for all, and a cultural shift to the idea that a man who attempts to lay an unwanted hand on a woman had better have his life insurance paid up would reduce rape dramatically and thus the question would almost never come up.


truly pro-life
The essence of faith is that spiritual life is different from biological life. A sperm cell is life. (What else could it be?) Although expressed rather poorly, I believe Biden's and Obama's point is that no one knows when spiritual life begins. That's what Biden is reluctant to impose on others. They're also both lousy at reminding people that they worry about the unfortunate phenomenon of women choosing unsafe abortions where they're illegal. That seems to be irrelevant to conservatives.

What's really unfortunate is that they're letting conservatives dominate the subject of protecting life. By screaming "Baby killers!" you believe you have a license to unprovoked invasions, gutting environmental protections, and keeping the US health care system more of a source of profit than health. Conservatives' sincerity would be much easier to believe if they didn't blow off the 18,000 Americans who die each year for lack of health care and the 77,000 people who die each year worldwide from the results of global warming.

Finally, for the record - Obama has said he opposes late-term abortions

WHAT IF
'Roe vs Wade' were reversed? Then each individual State would have the responsibility to enact (hopefully by the will of the people in the individual State) whatever laws concerning abortion they decide. As I can't imagine all 50 States passing the same laws concerning abortion, a woman would indeed have the right to 'choose' to live or go to the State with whatever laws the woman agrees with.

BIDEN-DONE-BIN-VOTING-!!
JOE VOTES FOR ABORTION!HE LEARNED TO SPEAK WITH FORKED,TONGUE,YEARS AGO,!!IT IS NOT ABOUT RACE,IT IS NOT ABOUT SKIN,IT IS ABOUT THE RADICAL STUFF OBAMA-AND BIN BITTEN BELIEVE IN!!!

100% correct
Biden's silly argument is an old argument that is obviously full of holes. Liberals can't think past the end of their noses. But it is scary that many people in this country believe this argument. Probably because many don't want to think past the end of their noses.

It is a crime against not only God
So when does life begin according to the bible, the word of God?

How does the word of God deal with abortion/miscarriage?

Is a zygote with no soul a human being?

Legal Abortions
As a conservative, I am all for women who choose when and if they want to become "mommies". Let's face it, having children is an end to life as we once knew it. But, illegal abortion, such as Obama has allowed, is murder and those who are involved in that should be held legally responsible, including the Senator. Palin will, in fact, create a movement towards accountability which will relieve we tax payers of all those who choose the welfare route. Thank you, Sarah. Roe vs Wade is here to stay and all women need to apply it's right within it's original form. Sexuality is "too in our faces".

Biden lies to himself, too
If one TRULY believed that life begins at conception, and that they cannot force their religious views on others--they would ABSTAIN from voting on all abortion legislation. But these (so-called) Catholic legislators, vote FOR every pro-choice, partial-birth, and embryonic stem cell law they can find! Their loud and frequent protestations do not fool me;
ACTIONS do speak louder than words.

Addendum
But do keep writing about her stand on abortion.
I want Obama to win.

Candidates views may inform but ---
the vast majority of the people in the US
believe in choice, no matter what they may think
about abortion personally. Myself included.

Abortion is a crime
Abortion is the horrible and tortuous murder of a human being. Abortion doctors during the second and third trimesters dismember babies alive, ripping and cutting off legs and arms. Some just induce labor and toss this baby struggling to live into a closet. The dead babies and baby parts are treated like waste. It is a crime against not only God, but humanity.

jeffjenn, Good Post and
on the matter of rape, there may be some ethical options. Not being well informed in medicine or ethics, mine is an uninformed opinion.

Let's start with the death penalty. Exact mechanisms vary, but these are done in a way that the executioner doesn't necessarily know they caused the death. For instance with drugs multiple people can pull levers and thus each is blind as to whether they actually put the prisoner to death.

Using the concept of masking, why couldn't a similar procedure that has a high probability of causing an abortion early be used. It could be applied the next day as a routine matter of medicine. Perhaps a consent form could be involved in which the patient could be informed the procedure has a high probability of preventing a pregnancy, if there was one. Patients could opt out if that is what their conscience demanded. No one would know for sure that a fertilized egg was aborted.

Though messy still it may be a way to solve the problems associated with rape.

outlawing abortion
christianlib,

I thought I would take a stab at your questions because they are legitimate questions that would have to be addressed.

First of all, outlawing abortion would require making it a criminal offense. This means doctors would not be allowed to perform abortions, and any woman who has an abortion would be doing so outside the law. This necessqary means they would be subject to whatever penalty legislators deem sufficient to deter most women from pursuing that option. (I doubt the penalty that would be imposed would include the death penalty.)

If this were done, then it is likely most women would soon come to realize that a pregnancy, whether wanted or not, would mean carrying a preborn to term and raising the child after it is born.

As for miscarriages, perhaps the most that can be done is to outlaw any medical options that are designed to induce a miscarriage. It may not be possible to prevent all forced miscarriages, but every effort should be made to minimize such occurrences.

The question of rape is the hardest to address because it involves a pregancy brought about by forced sex rather than consentual sex. Asking a woman to bear a child as a result of rape seems enormously unfair to the woman, but in the eyes of the law the unborn child is still a unique individual life. I think in such instances as this, the woman should receive every assistance that society can provide to help her through her pregnancy and in pursuing whatever course she opts to take following birth.

You say you are prolife, which I assume means you support doing whatever is required to rid this nation of the moral travesty of legalized abortion. We will need to start somewhere which at a minimum means disallowing the practice as right of choice and doing what is necessary to curtail the practice.

beowulfe. to OF COURSE
I would add that the basic set of rules for our society are found in the Ten Commandments, which advise us on how to live a moral life. Murder, stealing, false witness, and so forth are Commandments from God that also provide the moral basis of our laws.

With that in mind we can see that we've codified God's Commandments in our laws. Liberals know that separating church from states creates the climate for moral relativism. So if convenient, say in the case of one adult murdering another, then Biden and his ilk can impose their beliefs. When it is inconvenient, say with infanticide after a botched abortion, that would be permitted by their moral relativism. Infanticide certainly would not be permitted by God's commandments.

The Bill of Rights informs us that the Creator grants us inalienable rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. The most basic of these, life, comes not from government but from God.

We are informed of the moral relativism of Obama and Biden by their inaction regarding infanticide. It would seem that neither of their attitudes is patriotic (no belief in the Bill of Rights) nor Christian (no belief in the sanctity of life). We can only conclude they are unfit for the offices they seek.

No brainer
For anyone who believes in the sanctity of life hear the wake-up call, get involved in some way to protect the innocent. 40,000,000 precious babies have been aborted since Roe vs. Wade. The number of legal abortions in the US in 1969 was less than 20,000. This year more than 1 1/2 million unborn babies will be aborted. That is 4,250 per today, 177 this hour and 3 since you began to read this. This is genocide and comparable to a weapon of MASS DESTRUCTION. The blood is on all our hands unless we do something now, we have not been effective because too many do nothing. If Obama gets to be POTUS more babies will die, can you live that??? We are, indeed, talking about a weapon of mass destruction here. YOU can no longer be silent on this issue and say you are a Christian or a person of faith! Many who profess no faith still believe in the right to Life.

i am pro-life but....
i want to explore the consequences of making abortion illegal starting with miscarriages.

there is a pill now that causes miscarraige as opposed to a natural miscarriage.

are we going to have abortion police or abortion homicide detectives that will investigate any and all miscarriages.

will the woman need to be medically tested to prove she is not a murderer.

what about the sentencing.

if it can be proved a teenage mother has had an abortion, will she be tried for murder?

finally, since palin believes in no exemptions if an 11 year old girl is brutally raped and tortued by someone who is criminally insane.

than the federal government is going to force this girl to bring this baby to term regardless of the psychological damage caused by the rape and her revulsion towards the child.

so let me summarize, we are going to need abortion police to check on all women who have miscarriages and no matter the age of the rape victim they must give birth.

finally, what if a girl goes to another country to have an abortion, will she be charged with murder when she returns?

like i said i am pro-life but i have tried to think through the legal consequences of this and am asking for guidance from posters as to thier vision of how the law would work.

will girls who have an abortion get the death penalty?


WHAT A DIFFERENCE A DAY MAKES...
I thought I understood the liberal Democrats' abortion viewpoint: if the expectant mother's due date is December 9, it's okay to have an abortion to kill the baby on December 8.

But then I learned I was wrong... the liberal Democrats not only believe that a late-term abortion is acceptable, if the baby "inadvertenty" survives the abortion, it's okay with them if the child is tossed in a cold, stainless steel hospital pan, and left to die unattended. Obama voted against an Illinois law which requires giving that child medical attention.

Obama promised Planned Parenthood that the FIRST bill he would sign as President would be a law OUTLAWING all state laws that restrict abortions. Does your state prohibit late-term abortions? Not with Obama's law. Does your state require parental consent before a minor can have an abortion? Not with Obama's law.

Ah, but wouldn't the Tenth Amendment render Obma's law unconstitutional? Yes, but since when have legislators or the Supreme Court paid any attention to the Tenth Amendment?

More at http://www.colony14.net including "O.J. the Abortionist"

OF COURSE they impose their views...
That is what a government is.

Person A believes that murder is immoral.

Person B believes that murder is a-ok.

Person A goes and convinces his government to make murder illegal, thereby "imposing" that view on Person B.

That is how such things work. It doesn't matter what rationale was behind such an imposition -- Person A's religious belief or whatever. The fact is that is EXACTLY what laws are. The imposition of certain views on an entire nation.

Also, just to reiterate some facts that a few of you are ignoring:

The abortion debate is NOT about "when life begins". That debate is over. Ask any biologist or geneticist when they KNOW life begins and they will tell you, NO MATTER what their view on abortion is, that life begins when the sperm fertilizes the egg. At that INSTANT in time, that fertilized egg becomes a unique and individual life until, for some reason, it perishes.

Nay, the abortion debate has NOTHING to do with "when life begins". If there was no life, then there is no abortion. Period.

The debate is over WHAT THE VALUE OF THAT LIFE IS. And THAT is CERTAINLY a debatable topic.

What price, life?
22 years ago, my company, small and self-insured, came to the aid of a young employee whose wife gave birth very prematurely. The pregnancy was only 26 weeks along, and the baby was born weighing less than 2 lbs. He had severe lung impairment, and spent weeks in an incubator with breathing support. We bankrupted the self-insurance fund trying to save that little boy. But when the funds ran out, our 32 employees raised more money, although far from enough, to help cover the continuing massive medical bills. Ultimately, the fight was lost and the child died. But it never occurred to us not to try to save him.

Why is one child at 26 weeks something inconvenient to be thrown away, and another the same age worth 32 people spending the last dime of their OWN insurance fund to save? God in his infinite wisdom knows the difference in people's hearts. And, just to be clear, the company was not a religious organization of any kind. Just a little company in Colorado Springs, bought up and closed some years later by a much larger company. But I know where all those folks are, and believe me, they'd do it again today.

What say you now, Lynda?
(Jodi to Lynda): "You don't wish the leaders of our country to impose a view that values the life of the unborn. I don't wish the leaders of our country to impose a view that doesn't. Either way, they're imposing a view that affects somebody."

Jodi, Your response to Lynda is beautifully written. The argument that laws against abortion impose beliefs that others don't share is totally bogus, and your reply to Lynda makes this unmistakably clear. The controversy over abortion is solely about the value of the life of the unborn, and this is an issue prochoicers mostly want to avoid.

Hey Lynda...news flash here...
...providing life-saving care for a newborn who survived a murder attempt is not a religious view, and no one is imposing ANYTHING on you - or does imposing life-saving care on a human life you might have tried to discard 'offend' you?

The Constitution of the US guarantees the right of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Seems like (a) providing life-saving care for a newborn meets those, and (b) I find nowhere in the Constitution where you have the 'right' not to be offended. But if you find it, please point out the Article and paragraph where it might be found...

I'm constantly amazed by the mass disregard for human life in our country...

Good question Geek
Another one, is why aren't the guardians of the peoples right to know calling Biden and others on their blatant hypocrisy?
We all know why, these nitwits are all in the tank for the Feminazi's First Church of Choice.
And I defy anyone to argue that partial birth,
or induced labor is torture prior to execution.
(as are other forms). If a parent of a day old, week old, month old, year old etc abused that baby the way abortionists abuse these babies, that parent would be jailed so fast they wouldn't know what hit them. Yet when citizens protest they are condemned and jailed
It's an upside down morality.
We didn't vote for this monster to befoul our
Republic, it was imposed upon us by judicial fiat on the basis of a lie. Politicians of a
cowardly mindset, talk about their personal faith blah blah blah, but are so fearful of the
ones that bought them, they will do anything to
keep the money flowing, even if it's blood money.
In Obama's case I don't think it's so much fear but a deep seated moral failing. When he can sit coldly listening to Jill Staneks testimony, and remain unmoved by it, there is something seriously wrong with his
head. It's that cold calculating persona that
makes him very dangerous.

Jodi Excellent rebuttal.

Lynda et al

Are you offended by allowing babies to cry in terror and medical aid is refused - not even pain medicine?

Are you offended that this American Citizen doesn't even get a death certificate?

Are you offended that this American Citizen is treated as garbage?

I really want to know what does it take to offend you?

Those who are Offended by Anything

How can you NOT be offended by refusing aid to a baby that is crying in terror and excruciating pain?

If that doesn't offend you then don't ever say you are offended by anything again! !

I don't care what political party or candidate shows this kind of barbaric attitude for a little baby they are NOT FIT for any kind of leadership role.

Born Alive Babies

Giving medical aid to a Born Alive Baby is NOT a religious issue or a political issue, it is a human rights issue.

Human slavery, Honor Killings, medical aid to the defenseless are Human Rights issues.

Those who protest wars, executions, Honor Killings - why are you silent about the BAIPA issue?

Where are the protestors?

Biden on abortion: See no evil
"On Meet the Press this past Sunday, Senator Joe Biden said he believes life begins at conception, and this belief is shaped by his Catholic faith. But he also said he supports abortion rights because he will not impose his beliefs on others."

Since the Catholic religion also teaches "Thou shalt not kill", anyone who accepts that teaching and who supports laws against murder of any kind is imposing their religious beliefs on others.

Since I seriously doubt that Biden would agree that laws against murder should be repealed because they violate the separation of church and state, why the double standard when it comes to allowing a practice that he believes takes a human life?

Either Biden is blowing smoke on this issue, or he is extremely befuddled. Either way, it speaks volumes about the dubious moral qualifications that both he and Obama share in their quest to become the leaders of our nation.

We may NOT agree
We may NOT agree on when life begins but we should be able to agree when a baby is alive - separated from its mother.

Once the baby is living on its own, the baby is NOW an American Citizen and should be granted all Rights and Protections under the US Constitution and Bill of Rights.

Michelle and Barack Obama have done everything humanly possible to deny that baby any medical aid - NOT even pain medication.

When Barack Obama was asked about that he lied and said it was NOT true and later retracted the lie and said he had 'mis-represented' his position.

http://geekonobama.blogtownhall.com/2008/09/02/obama_caught _red-handed_in_abortion_lie.thtml

Biden on imposing his belief
On Meet the Press this past Sunday, Senator Joe Biden said he believes life begins at conception, and this belief is shaped by his Catholic faith. But he also said he supports abortion rights because he will not impose his beliefs on others.

He is either a liar or does not know that elected leaders are expected to impose their views on others, otherwise why is he in the senate??? In the Senate has Biden always just voted "present" concerning abortion issues or any other belief that he has instead of a yes or no???

Born Alive Babies - Obama says NO aid
The 'Born Alive' baby who has known the closest contact with another human any human can experience - the baby has been inside another human for months.

The baby has kicked, stretched and some even suck their thumbs. Every need has been met by its human host - shelter, nourishment and safety.

Suddenly one day the baby is attacked with chemicals and poisons.

The baby enters a world bent on death and destruction towards its life.

The baby has never seen a butterfly, puppy, pretty colors or things all babies enjoy or had any human say I love you.

The baby enters the world in excruciating pain and the best trained Medical experts in the world refuse the baby any aid - in a hospital - where all facilities are available and the Doctors have sworn to protect all human life - except his.

The baby is thrown on a cold table and left to die in some hidden place.

The baby struggles to breathe because a human is born with the human will to survive. The baby cries in terror and sobs for help - that never comes - no one cares.

The innocent baby tries to live with every breath and dies alone, abandoned like a used kleenex, never having experienced anything but pain, rejection and hatred.

When the baby finally dies a death of torture and the ultimate rejection any human can receive, it is such a worthless human it doesn't even have a 'Death Certificate' issued that it ever existed.

For a few minutes, hours or days, that baby WAS an American Citizen, that should have received all of the 'Rights and Protections' under law, that any other American Citizen should have.

Michelle and Barack Obama and most Democrats, have done everything humanly possible, to make sure this baby does NOT even receive any pain medication.

Re: Lynda's Morality and Rights
I am offended when religious views are imposed on me. Certainly. Begging for public funding for foot washing basins in public places for Muslims? Offends me. Having atheism shoved down my kids' throats in school? Offends me. (Mildly, actually, as it also provides many valuable teachable moments.)

I think where you and I would differ is in the idea that protection of life is a religious view. I'm going to put myself out on a limb here and say that you probably think YOUR life is worth protection by law... I know I certainly hope the laws are such that my life is worth protection. The question is: What makes the unborn less worthy of that protection under the law than you or me? It doesn't take a religious person to view that life as being worth something, just as it doesn't take a religious person to view you or me as being worth something. It just takes a particular value placed on LIFE.

You don't wish the leaders of our country to impose a view that values the life of the unborn. I don't wish the leaders of our country to impose a view that doesn't. Either way, they're imposing a view that affects somebody. On the one hand, the women who wish to abort are affected -- no longer legally able to do so. On the other, the children are affected, no longer able to live.

Morality and Rights
Your statement, "Elected leaders are elected to impose their views on us on all manner of issues" is absurd. Leaders should lead. Separation of church and state put paramaters on imposing personal beliefs on those of a different religion or even no religion. That's how it all began.

Sarah Palin's don't offend me at all. I am offended when religious views are imposed on me. Aren't you?

LIFE SUPPORT
Though, I am not 'pro-choice' and know biologically life begins at conception, until the the life of the embryo grows to the viability of a fetus to be born and be able to survive(with or without medical assistance), I believe the mother (or whatever technological capability there is today) is a 'life support' system sustaining the life of the embryo and subsequent fetus until that life is viable on its own. Since our 'laws' provide the 'right' to remove 'life support' when a person is diagnosed no longer viable without said 'life support' then I don't see a difference between those 'laws' and the decision of 'Roe vs Wade'.
The argument, that the above comparison is not justified, because the diagnosis of a person no longer viable is not the same as an embryos potential to be viable, can be disputed. With todays medical advancements, whose to say any or all damaged organs might someday be repaired or replaced. 200 hundred years ago, hearts, livers, kidneys etc, were not being transplanted and today we're beginning to have the knowledge to regrow our own organs including a brain.

They have no guts
I'm not sure which is worse: Senator Biden, a "Catholic" (why is it that all the prominent Catholics in congress have been morons? Kennedy, Kerry, Biden, Daschle, Pelosi, Cynthia %#$()@ McKinney, etc.) who states that he believes life begins at conception, but does not wish to protect that life, or Obama, who doesn't even have the guts to say what he believes (Either that life begins at, or shortly after birth, or that even though life begins at conception, it isn't sacred until after birth.)

This goes to show how gutless the Democrats are when it comes to abortion. They either believe, personnally (or so they say) that it's wrong, but won't fight it publicly, because the Left wing of the Party controls the Party agenda and kicks out people who disagree with them (Joseph Liebermann, you have a call on the white courtesy phone) or they believe that it's perfectly fine and won't say as much (despite the fact that everyone knows it) because the general public doesn't buy that (and never has.)

If Obama wants to be President, he's going to have to grow a pair. He's going to have to start to make decisions -- very difficult decisions, sometimes even wrong decisions -- and live with the consequences. He's going to have to take unpopular stands (Like President Bush and the war) and live with that.

Blackwell says that an executive that doesn't make a decision will be chucked by the voters. He's only partially right. An exec in any organization who doesn't make decisions will do serious damage to that organization before he can be chucked. I don't mean hurting the reputation of the organization, or demeaning the office, I mean actual harm will come to the organization, whatever that organization may be. Whetehr it's a company, a military unit, or the entire country.

ON ABORTION, BY IVAN ERICKSON
ON PRO LIFE, ABORTION, EUTHANASIA, CAPITAL PUNISHMENT AND OTHER MORAL AND ETHICAL CHOICES, by Ivan Erickson, author of “Song of the Storm Winds”. Please visit http://www.ivan-erickson.com to read and comment on my religious discourses, and to order my novel via direct links to amazon.com
Man’s Free Will: From The Book of Sirach, 15:11 – 20:
“Say not: ‘It was God’s doing that I fell
away’;
for what he hates he does not do.
Say not: ‘It was he who set me astray’;
for he has no need of wicked man.
Abominable wickedness the LORD
hates,
he does not let it befall those who fear
him.
When God, in the beginning, created
man,
he made him subject to his own free
choice.
If you choose, you can keep the com-
mandments;
it is loyalty to do his will.
There are set before you fire and water;
to whichever you choose, stretch
forth your hand.
Before man are life and death,
whichever he chooses shall be given
him.
Immense is the wisdom of the LORD;
he is mighty in power, and all-seeing.
The eyes of God see all he has made;
he understands man’s every deed.
No man does he command to sin,
to none does he give strength for lies”.
Also, God gave us the commandment, “Thou Shalt Not Kill”! Please note that he gave us no addenda to that commandment, except in the case of the destructive power of His Sword – which is war and other Acts of God! Man must not supersede, change, delete or countermand so much as one of God’s commandments, mandates, laws, decrees, jurisdictions or covenants. If man or woman does so, remember also these words of God from The Book of Sirach, 7:8:
“Do not plot to repeat a sin; /not even for one will you go unpunished”./ May the Beloved Lord bless each of you in all things, always.
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