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Thursday, December 06, 2007
Ken Blackwell :: Townhall.com Columnist
Giving the Gift of English
by Ken Blackwell
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One of the most unreported stories of the past month is Democrats in Congress refusing to protect the Salvation Army and other similar organizations from lawsuits for requiring their employees to be able to speak English on the job. This policy issue is also important politically, and Republicans will benefit politically by doing the right thing.

John Fund’s recent Wall Street Journal article reveals this absurd situation. Lawsuits have been brought by individuals and the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission against employers like the Salvation Army for requiring their employees to learn English within one year. The Salvation Army is only requiring English in performing work duties, not what language workers use in the break room, and gives them a full 12 months to learn the language. Yet the EEOC and certain groups are suing.

So Senator Alexander put an amendment into an appropriations bill to shield employers from these ridiculous lawsuits. The amendment passed both the House and the Senate. But the Democrats of the House Hispanic Caucus, led by Rep. Joe Baca, told Speaker Pelosi that she needed to stop this, and she readily complied by promising to strike the language in conference, holding up the bill.

The problem is that this bill includes all the money for the Justice Department and the FBI. Critical national security, terrorist prevention, and law enforcement dollars are in that bill, and Mrs. Pelosi is caving to pressure from radical liberal groups, and in the process, selling out what’s best for immigrants.

I say radical liberal groups because the vast majority of Americans disagree with them. Over 80% of Americans think English should be the official language of government, almost 90% think it’s very important for immigrants to be able to speak English, and over 75% believe that employers have the right to require employees to speak English while on the job.

The only ones who don’t think English should be the official language are liberal activists trying to recast America in their image. Those activists also form a large part of the Democratic base, and would be unforgiving of a Democratic presidential candidate who refuses to promise amnesty, driver licenses, and free health care to illegal immigrants.

Americans should disagree with this radical agenda. The simple fact is English is the commercial language of America. We speak it in business, in school, and in the press. In a workplace, it’s important for safety, morale, and customer relations for everyone to be able to speak a common language.

Being fluent in English is essential if you want to succeed in America. If you’re bilingual, that’s even better, but a top priority for success is being able to speak English in the workplace and in the public square. Someone who can speak English can compete for better jobs, with better pay. Someone who can speak English improves their chances to have a better future for themselves and their children.

This is not just a Hispanic issue, or even an immigrant issue. I grew up in the inner city of Cincinnati, became mayor of that fine city, and served as the U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations Human Rights Commission. One of the greatest keys I have found to success for a young ethnic and racial minority in America today is the ability to speak, read, and write English clearly and persuasively. Anyone with good English skills can get better jobs and opportunities, and enjoy a much better life. Continued...

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About The Author
Mr. Blackwell, a contributing editor at Townhall.com, is a senior fellow at the Family Research Council and American Civil Rights Union.
 
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WHY did the immigrants of yesterday
learn English? To succeed. To make something of themselves and help their children by many times BANNING the speaking of the "mother tongue."

But let's be honest. Illegal aliens are easier to FIND if they can't speak English. Easier to find - easier to deport. Hasta la vista.

a win-win situation
This article is I think what the phrase "compassionate conservative" is all about. It makes perfect sense. Learning to speak English is better for immigrants, and it's better business and culture. It would apply to immigrants from any country, not just Spanish-speaking countries.

Good article.

Good Article
Well written, I hate going into stores and resturants and not being able to understand the people working there.
The United States of America, the United part seems to be falling apart very quickly as people step in and try to change the country to something way different than what the great founders were after. We must remain United, and be United in Language as well.

Pelosi strikes from bill???
How can Pelosi strike this from a bill AFTER it has passed both the House and the Senate???? Am I missing something here?

I heard about this case on the radio yesterday. That's right, the hourly 5-minute newsbreak mentioned this case. I had not heard anything on the TV news or saw anything about it on any of the web news outlets, including the print news.

Could it be that the news outlets, including Fox, are still interested in pushing the amnesty/illegal issues?

As for this case itself, the judge should have thrown the case out on it's ear with prejudice when it was first filed. There has already been a case almost identical to this one and the people demanding that employers cannot require English LOST.

This is just another demonstration of the bankruptcy of out legal system, as well as Lamocrats like Pelosi.

simple realities...
Over 90% of American households celebrate Christmas, and English is the main language spoken in the vast majority of them, though German remains the most common national origin... sounds like there has been a LOT of historical successful assimilation and common acculturation.

But there is a HUGE difference occurring now-- many of the 20 million (the 80% of ILLEGALS who are Hispanic who are low income and undereducated) who are here ILLEGALLY are clinging tenaciously to Spanish, and the PC ilk is willfully trying to help them do so for "diversity." The Hispanic Congressman who originally sponsored the bilingual education requirement now says it was the worst regret of his life because Hispanic children have used it as a crutch and too often not learned English, thus dooming themselves to perpetuate a cycle of poverty and balkanization.

Interestingly, Arizona, the state most plagued by the ILLEGAL invasion tsunami recently passed a law killed bilingual education because of its unintended consequence failures. some cite stats about generational differences among hispanics learning English, BUT the ILLEGALS are bent on a different agenda.

Places like Chinatown that some like Akagi mentions here on TH where another language has predominated in pockets were never sources of assimilation and socio-economic success for those trapped there. Chips on shoulders against the predominant Europeans do not help either, and it is a real stretch to suggest that Mexicans have a European ancestry-- only the plutocratic ruling class (see Vicente Fox) really does.

Ken's world
"The only ones who don’t think English should be the official language are liberal activists trying to recast America in their image"

Once again, Ken Blackwell is caught talking out his backside.
What about that very large base of republican supporters in Miami, called Cuban's who only speak Spanish?
Republican and Democrats have both allowed the USA to be sold out to the business communities lust for the all mighty dollar by hiring illegals. We also are subjected to calling customer service bases where English is spoken so poorly that it takes 20 minutes to understand the dialect to fix a 2 minute problem.
If your going to blame anybody for allowing English to be the optional language of choice, take a good look at the business community who are 100% responsible for allowing it to happen.

Our Daunting ILLEGAL Alien Problem
[Part 1]
Not so long ago, Bill Bennett was defending ILLEGALS with the globalist, open borders PC litany such as "The undocumented are just doing jobs Americans won't do that our economy needs done." The MSM kept trying to refer to ILLEGAL aliens as "undocumented workers," as if the only result of ILLEGALS being here was that they worked. Those who opposed ILLEGALS were dubbed "racists, xenophobes, and nativists." We were artfully told that today's ILLEGALS were not only making net contributions, but would gradually become assimilated Americans. There were warnings that the Republican Party would tear itself asunder if it allowed "a radical fringe" to alienate Hispanics (still only 6% of the actual vote in 2006).

Some vacuously posit that the angst about ILLEGALS is simply the current iteration of historical resentment toward arriving aliens which vanished after they were absorbed, but this is artful dodging at best. As Pat Buchanan saliently points out, an ocean separated prior immigrants from home countries, and they came here to BECOME Americans, and embraced and took pride in assimilation. We could absorb and assimilate the poor and even ignorant in the past because our economy was much simpler and agrarian-based for generations.


part 2
Today's Hispanic ILLEGALS (about 80% of all ILLEGALS per PEW) have a different mind set entirely, their home countries are close by such that the socio-cultural umbilical cord is not cut, and today's advanced service economy really needs the educated and skilled. These Hispanics are clinging tenaciously to their culture and language, and the PC and globalist ilk is trying to accommodate them with bilingual education and accommodations. Middle Americans who actually live among the pandemic pernicious social pathologies which accompany the permeation of ILLEGALS are called xenophobes, demagogues and demonizers for pointing out these major differences from the past, and the red herring straw man challenge that "we cannot simply deport 12 million" is used to justify "regularization" (see Rudy and the Huckster) or "Comprehensive
Immigration Reform" (read: scamnesty).

But about 3/4 of us are waking up to the disingenuous drivel, and familiarity with the pernicious concomitant social pathologies (crime, gangs, drugs, balkanization, school and social service enervation, illegitimacies, drop-outs) breeds contempt and righteous indignation. WHY ILLEGALS COME HERE IS IRRELEVANT-- ILLEGAL IS ILLEGAL! Congress, which has TOTALLY misread the pulse of Peoria, tried to cram through scamnesty in several shell game forms, but was soundly rebuffed. Senator Sessions and Cong. Peter King said that Congress had NEVER seen such wrath in the heartland. The governor of N.Y., a relatively
liberal state, was adamantly opposed by about 75% of N.Y. residents who saw through the drivers licenses for voter fraud scheme. As Bill Bennett notes, "There is real fire in America now on (ILLEGAL) immigration unlike on any issue I have ever seen."


part 3
So what do we do about this egregious threat to national security and socio-economic and cultural well-being? First, body slam the pols who cater to ILLEGALS... there are signs that this is happening. Second, insist that EXISTING laws be enforced-- build the wall, crack down on employers, and stop the freebies, including tuition. No jobs, no freebies --> NO STAY! Require proof of citizenship to function-- WE Americans prove who we are CONSTANTLY for employment, travel, etc. Expired visas will not cut it! The possible threat of terrorism is yet another reason to require proof of a right to be VISITING America.

What, no papers? Then NO job, NO apt., NO drivers licenses, NO social services, NO pass go! As Arizona has done, kill bilingual education-- learn or return! [In fact, Arizona, the state most plagued by ILLEGALS, passed several strong
sanctions against them in 2006 by huge margins, supported by about half of the LEGAL Hispanic vote.] Revamp LEGAL immigration to emphasize education and skill sets-- just as other common sense countries do. NO PATHS TO CITIZENSHIP FOR
ILLEGALS-- PERIOD! Let them go back and start from scratch-- MOST would NOT qualify to return! Reinterpret the 14th as intended; just as children of diplomats born here are not citizens, ILLEGAL alien madres should not be able to push out excuses for family welfare. English MUST BE the ONLY LANGUAGE USED--PERIOD! Quebec is lesson enough.

A nation which loses its borders and sovereignty ceases to be a nation. America is too special to lose to an ILLEGAL invasion of the willfully culturally disparate and ignorant indigent. We CANNOT be the welfare state for Latin America's socio-economic failures and plutocratic government abuses.


Fred Thompson says "yes" to English!
Lodestar is saying what Fred has said: A nation that does not protect its borders will not remain a sovereign nation!

Fred Thompson's tough-and-sensible PLAN is outlined at http://tinyurl.com/2fyn5r - one of the components is making ENGLISH the official language of the USA!

Is Fred a TRUE CONSERVATIVE? Find out in the extensive recent interview by Charlie Rose: http://tinyurl.com/yso9k3

Check out what Rush Limbaugh said about Fred recnetly: http://tinyurl.com/3cbu7m

Finally: Will you be permitting someone else to decide your vote? DON'T LET THEM! Check out this TownHall article at http://tinyurl.com/37aqov





Liberal hypocrisy on English
What would liberals call an American who moved to France and demanded that everyone, including government officials, speak English to him? An Ugly American. Yet, they think we are racist for insisting that immigrants here learn English.

The liberal rationale seems to be that Spanish is part of their culture, and they should be able to use it here. Well, other things are part of their culture, too, like the sport of soccer. Are the liberal newspapers that demand that these people be allowed to speak Spanish all the time going to accommodate them by having lots of articles about soccer in their sports pages? Of course not. As far as I can tell, the LA Times doesn't even cover the Mexican league, despite all the Mexicans who have moved there.

Speaking English while Ringing Your Bell
Here we go with the Republicans wanting it both ways again. If they promote government documentation in English and Spanish, they are pro-Hispanic. If they don't stop lawsuits requiring English in the work place, they are anti-Hispanic.

I love it when the Republicans stand there with their cloak of love for all mankind, unless it takes money out of their pocket.

public opinions on ILLEGAL aliens
Several recent polls indicate that the all-important independents now rank ILLEGAL immigration as their greatest concern...

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/content/search?SearchText=i mmigration
http://www.pollingreport.com/immigration.htm
http://www.cis.org/articles/2006/2006pollrelease.html
http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=research_res earchd74c
http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1328
http://www.cis.org/articles/2006/back906.html

The general public overwhelmingly favors REAL immigration reform (BUT not Scamnesty posing as "C.I.R."). Poll after poll shows that Americans want well-enforced, sensible, and sustainable immigration laws.

* 89% of Americans think illegal immigration into the U.S. is a problem (30% "extremely serious," 33% "very serious," and 26% "somewhat serious." (Time Magazine, Jan. 2006)

* 82% think that not enough is being done along the borders to keep illegal immigrants from crossing into the country. (New York Times/CBS May 2007)

* 68% feel that the number of immigrants who cross the border, whether legal or illegal is “too high”. (Polling Company, Sept. 2006)

* 62% oppose making it easier for illegal immigrants to become citizens of
America. (Quinnipiac Univ., Feb. 2006)

*71% believe that illegal immigrants should not qualify for in-state tuition rates at colleges and universities.

*77 % oppose making drivers' licenses available to illegal immigrants.

*71% favor requiring foreign visitors to carry universal I.D. card

*77% say that employers can require English-only on the job

where candidates stand...
on the ILLEGAL invasion and honest, possibly beneficial legal immigration...

Republicans and Veiled Scamnesty RINOS:
http://www.betterimmigration.com/candidates/2006/prez08_gop 1.html

Leftist Scamnesty Advocates:
http://www.betterimmigration.com/candidates/2006/prez08_dem 1.html

Perhaps we should do like Mexico


Use their requirements for resident aliens ( their term) for the immigrants from the south
:"
Immigrant, Economically Active
When you want to acquire permanent residency AND you want to work there


You will need to satisfy the requirements for entry (e.g. professional, sponsored by a company, etc), or be able and prepared to invest at least 40,000 times the minimum daily wage in Mexico City (see above).



Immigrant, Not Economically Active
When you want to acquire permanent residency but DO NOT want to work there


If you are of retirement age (50+), and have at least US$1,500 or equivalent income per month, then a Retiree permit will be your easiest route.

If you are not of a retirement age (below 50) and want to live but not work in Mexico, you will need to contact the Mexican Consulate. Provided that you can prove a permanent steady income in line with the regulations, you may be granted an FM3 permit to live in Mexico, which would be eligible for conversion to an FM2 in 5 years. You will need to state what you intend to do there, e.g. early retirement due to health, etc"
from a Mexican site explaning immigration

lodestar
Your research is impressive.

what I think Blackwell meant
I think Blackwell was not giving any cover to illegal aliens. He's always been strong on border enforcement. I think he's saying that any immigrant in the country, whether legally from Mexico, or from Russia, or wherever, should learn how to speak the common language here. I also think he was encouraging young racial minorities to make sure they could speak/read English well.

That seems to be a very positive message to me.

Also
Check the points system of Canada at

http://www.cic.gc.ca

You will notice that knowledge of either (English or French) of Canada's official languages is practically mandatory for immigration there.

So what is wrong with English being mandatory for living in US?

So, I'll pitch again that US should consider a points-based system, with the following specific modifications:
(1) the first question should be whether seeker can speak/read/write English fluently
(2) if no, the system should exit at that point with award of ZERO points; if yes, further points can be gotten by pagewise navigation
(3) if below a preset number of points, DO NOT consider migrating!

common sense
It is amazing that this conversation is even taking place. I believe most AMERICANS think it is just common sense that employers requirre employees to speak the native tongue of the land in which they work. NOW, as for the little congress turd that went whining to nanny pelosi about parts of a bill protecting employers from law suits.....who the HE!! is he representing????
mexico or AMERICA. Little buttwipes like him should be impeached and then taken out and shot for treason. It is antics like this that is not endearing ANY immigrant who does not assimilate to the people of this country. Little turds like him are making it harder for the rest.

sleight of hand
There is a bit of sleight of hand in this article. The issue in the amendment seems to be whether to strip the interpretation fo the law from the courts, a generally bad practice. As someone claims above, a similar case has been adjudicated, and adjudicated correctly. There does not seem any reason to treat this as a special case.

But despite the fact that the amendment has to do with jurisdiction, the whole article talks about the desirablility of people in the US being able to speak English. But there is no serious debate on that topic. The bilingual education debate is about what is effective, not what the end goal is.

I lived for 6 years in an otherwise entirely Mexican immigrant (and first generation) neighborhood. And almost everybody spoke English. Those who didn't were either elderly or recently arrived. Most of them spoke spanish as well (which I do not). It was essentially just like the neighborhood that my mother grew up in, only there the other language was yiddish.

I recently lived for a year in a neighborhood in which what one heard on the street was mostly Polish. In Northeast Philly, I commonly heard Russian. That is how immigrant neighborhoods are, and how they have always been in America. And non-immigrants have always complained about it and tried to explain how this time it is different.

Obviously employees need to be able to do their jobs. If the Salvation Army is being sued because it is trying to fire workers for not being able to do their jobs, the courts should protect them. If the courts fail to protect them, then maybe legislation is needed. But court stripping measures based on anti-immigrant feelings is bad legislation.

Good article, Mr. Blackwell
English is the glue holding us together as a nation. Hearing Pelosi wants to take the provision for English out of the bill causes me to wonder once again as to whom she is supporting, citizens of our country or illegals.

As to the Cubans in Florida, they have a problem because so many landed there from Cuba only to creat a little Cuba which doesn't encouage American assimilation. I do not support that but don't have good answers to a situation where they have their own society en masse. If they want citizenship, they must be required to speak English. My hope is that the next geneation will spread out through the country and will regard English as their first language.

The same problem exists in Dearborn, Michigan where the largest population of Arabs outside of the Arab world reside. Thankfully, involvement outside the community seems to be happening as well as running for political office.

Well said, nic ely titled
I know a man who is involved in two lawsuits by illegals. In both cases, these are nuisance suits designed to get a settlement in liu of outrageous attorney fees to the defendant.

Some lawyers are discovering that they can make a living representing illegals. If this practice isn't stopped, it will lead to widespread lobbying and become one more insane bureaucracy ingrained into our way of life.

Stop the bleeding. Stop the illegals.

PS, guess you have heard by now that the two men shot by Joe Horn in Houston were illegals with records.

Why hire someone who can't speak English
What will happen is employers will shift their hiring practices, and hire more people who speak English, and avoid Spanish-speaking hires.

I am an employer -- albeit small -- and I would never hire someone who doesn't speak English.

What's with Mexicans?
I have always wondered why Mexicans, who live in a country with so many problems that there's not enough space to list them here, have not and do not promote English in Mexico! You are a disfunctional nation, you are neighbor to the most powerful nation on earth that speaks English; yet instead of learning English at home, you break into our country, steal citizenship for your Mexican offspring, demand that we give them free health care, demand that we educated as many of your children that you can either have here or get illegally across the border; and on top of this you demand that we speak Spanish! And without regard for the saftey of the US citizens you work with, you want to speak Spanish on the jobs that you have stolen from Americans! You legitimize this behavior with some Mexican madness that tells you that you have rights to all of this because the American southwest really belongs to Mexico! Go home and tell your Mexican governments to teach English to every Mexican citizen! That would be the act of a good neighbor.

When I immigrated to this country
my strongest desire was to assimilate into the american culture, not to maintain the one I had left. The fastest way to do this is to learn the language, which was ENGLISH!

I also served 3 years (voluntarily) in the US Army, and will be proud until I die that I did!

The difference between now and then is the ever growing political correctness being practiced by politicians who only have self interest at heart and no longer listen to the constituents that elected them, and this is normal business within all parties.

Keep them ignorant and under control is the Motto!

How's that for English?

Ignores the facts
Children of immigrants learn English and become fluent just as the children of immigrants before them. Immigrants legal and illegal learn English, perhaps not as fast as you'd like, but you try to learn another language as an adult while doing hard labor for 8-10 hours a day and see how fast you'd learn it.

In the 19th century there were entire communities of non-English speaking communties. There were large German newspapers, entire German-speaking regiments during the Civil War where battlefield commands were given to them in German.

The charge of these immigrants today don't assimilate like those in the past is a myth and ignores the facts as it relates to immigrants of the past and to immigrants today.

Divide and Conquer
That is what the Left is up to.

They break these changes into bite-sized pieces and wear us down one-by-one.

They distract us into thinking that it is just this ONE issue they care about, but they are actually going for a TOTAL deconstruction of the American culture.

Unless you look at the language issue as a small part of a whole, orchestrated movement, you are likely to be conned into giving up your entire culture, bit by bit.

Stand up against the toxic Left, while we still have a culture.

Ban them
"BANNING the speaking of the "mother tongue."

Yes that worked out for the KMT when they tried to do the same with Taiwanese (because the mainlander elites from the Chiang regime couldn't speak it), didn't work. Taiwanese is quite alive and now even taught in schools as an elective where in the bad old days speaking it in school or at work could land you in trouble.

And Loco, unless you are over 65 and have lived in the US for 20 years+, you are required to pass a English test to become naturalized.

Akagi the drama queen
If people who came here all assimilated, this would not be an issue.

But there are many who come here and make the United States of America their home, who benefit from the culture that we have established here, but nevertheless continue to hate us and refuse to assimilate.

If you don't think so, I suggest that you pay a visit to East Los Angeles.

But now, the barrio has extended beyond that area, and has encroached all over the city, HUGE pockets of Mexican nationals who are here only to make money and send it back home.

These people are like the man who killed the Goose that Laid the Golden Egg. They don't realize that it is the goose that is creating the eggs.

They want to turn the entire Southwest USA into Mexico. But what has Mexico turned out?: a corrupt system where millions live in abject poverty, where millions are willing to risk their lives crossing the desert to get here.

If they succeed in their quest, pretty soon this are would turn into Mexico, filled with a majority of oppressed peasants and a handful of wealthy elites.

You know, out of touch elites? Kinda like you, Akagi?

Debbie
Bingo. Dot. Period.

Mexicans
Braveheart:

While not an expert on Mexican schools, I am pretty sure they do teach English in Mexican schools as they do in Japanese and Taiwanese and Chinese schools.

As for stealing American jobs, yes, Americans just breaking down the doors to pluck chickens, spread pinestraw and make up beds.


Assimilation
And Mountain Rose:

The same thing was said about the Germans in the 1790s, the Irish in the 1840s, the Chinese and Japanese in the 1880s, the Eastern and Southern Europeans in the 1920s.

You ever met a 2nd or 3rd generation Chinese that can't speak English?

UncleB
No, it is not common sense to assume that all Americans want immigrants to speak English-only on the job. This position is common only among Americans who are provincial and silly. The rest of us understand that when we go to a Mexican fruit store, a Polish pierogi shop, a Swedish bakery, a Thai or Indian or Chinese restaurant, or a German delicatessen, we may possibly encounter the individual who sells ethnic merchandise to an ethnic population, although other consumers are welcomed, and the ambient language will not be English.

The guy who shovels the snow in front of my building, or who fixes my car, or who remodels my kitchen, or the lady who nannies my neighbor's kids, or mops the floor at my health club, or waits on me at a restaurant, may be struggling with English. They offer a mixed-up English syntax. I throw in my few words of their language. Somehow we communicate. I point. We both smile. What's the big deal? Beyond the horizons of Dogpatch USA, the service economy is multilingual.

I notice that Americans from small-town-and-rural-America don't want anything to happen, anywhere, ever, unless it is something that is already happening in small-town-and-rural-America.

And here's one for you to chew on: once when ordering lunch in London from an immigrant just learning English and who didn't understand me, I was challenged "Don't you speak English?". In my American accent I had asked for "Water". She was accustomed to hearing this pronounced, in England, either "Woe-tah" (upper-class accent) or "Wa/er" (glottal stop of the lower class accent). My "Water" didn't count.


Her's an idea
Start pressuring congress to :

a) Require that no bill can have attachments, language or amendments that do not have anything to do with the original subject of the bill. In other words, no bill can contain language which would create more than a single law.

OR

b) Give POTUS the line item veto, so that the billions in pork and idiotic amendments can be stricken from bills which are intended for a single law but are filled with pork and side laws as blackmail to the passing of the bill.

I'm talking about transparency. Every single bill should be written, debated and comitteed on its own merits, and every tax dollar spent be spent with total transparecy, not through undebated language hidden in another bill. No legislator should be able to slip in language which has nothing to do with the original bill, just to get a law passed without debate and without the members of congress being held to account for their vote.

If we don't stop the runaway spending of the idiots in congress, this country WILL go bankrupt.

And if we don't demand transparency and responsibility from the people in government, we the citizens of America will lose our country to those who put power first and America second.

speaking English is only a small part
of the problem...

Some note that children ILLEGAL aliens often speak English. That only gets to a small part of the issue with ILLEGALS. They typically come here for better-paying jobs and more freebies than they can get in the countries where they rightfully belong. Many have little interest in embracing America as most legal immigrants always have. Worse still, ILLEGALS are substantially poor and uneducated-- a 7th grade level is common.

Notwithstanding the mythology of "doing jobs Americans won't do," this trend of ignorant, culturally disparate invaders bodes terribly if they should be allowed to remain here, because today's advanced service economy America can truly benefit on balance ONLY from the educated and skilled who emigrate here. ILLEGALS are balkanizing areas where they dwell with burgeoning barrios. The myriad progeny of such blighted areas will ineluctably be government dependent, i.e., huge net users of government services. Heritage estimates a cost to society just in net govt. services used alone over taxes paid of $1.4 million per household headed by an ILLEGAL alien... assuming they actually pay taxes.

Please see my posts at 6:15 a.m. for solutions to the pernicious, inimical threats posed by the tsunami of ILLEGALS.

Lilly
Are you saying that only non English speaking people have the right to pick the language spoken in their businesses? In other words they can require Americans whom they hire to speak their language on the job or refuse to hire them for that reason?

And what about having a common language on jobs which require such for safety's sake, such as airline pilots, surgical teams, police, and so on.

Am I to believe you wouldn't mind riding on an airliner where the pilot can't understand English and consequently couldn't follow air traffic control instructions because those foolish ATC guys have a "Dogpatch" mentality and, worldwide, speak a common language, specifically, English?

And what about businesses who deal with the general public of whom the vast majority speaks English and expects the people who they deal with speak English as well, well like the Salvation Army?

Are you advocating that some bureaucrat decide which laguage be the language of choice in a business? Or are you under the impression that everyone be free to speak any language they please in all businesses - ala Tower Of Babel?

An ethnic, mom & pop veggie stand buried in some slum neighborhood, or the guy who shovels your snow, your nanny or a waiter in a local ethnic choke'n'puke - people you deal with one-on-one, is one thing. A national charity or company employing thousands of people and requiring instant communication is quite another.

You do see the difference, Lilly, don't you? I know you aren't fond of the big picture, but you must see the difference.

Lilly
So Lilly you consider me an uneducated provincial redneck fool. At least that is the impression I get from your response. Also one could expect from your example that a german owned business here in AMERICA could expect....no, demand that employees speak german so on and so forth. If an accounting firm "requires" a business or accounting degree as a condition of employment, then logic follows that they could also "require" this employee speak english also as a condition of employment. If one does not meet predefined requirements, then they don't get the job.
As for my background, I have lived and worked in the far east the middle east and Europe. Every country I was in I tried to learn and speak the language at least to some degree. The result was friendly attempts on their part to speak english...not DEMAND I speak their language.
And, for you information I wear the tag of REDNECK PROUDLY!!!! Your holier than thou attitude about folks who love their country and don't want to change it because of those who are too lazy or ignorant to assimilate is an example of the killing of AMERICA by the PC liberal crowd.
I don't imagine this will make anydifference to you.

PRESS "1" FOR ENGLISH?
There is rarely anything that irritates me more than the above phrase. If I have any options, I won't progress the phone call beyond that point. It's a small 'hit' in the pocketbook, so I think these businesses are slow to get the message. I'd like you to join me in this protest.

As pointed out in the article, English language is OUR language of commerce. Fluent language skills are essential for commerce and safety.

I have made many attempts to become multi-lingual. Primarily because I know it to be rude and crude to visit another country without being able to accomplish at least rudimentary communication in the local dialect. I agree that language is difficult to learn as an adult, but, as in all things, practice makes perfect. Making excuses delays and harms those most vulnerable. Spread the word.

One other observation
Lilly refers to people who understand that communication on the job is very important as "provincial" or people with a "Dogpatch mentality."

Yet it is Lilly who holds up as examples of her advocacy of multilingual workplaces, waiters in ethnic restaurants, a nanny, the guy who shovels her snow and the guy who remodels her kitchen. (The last one puzzles me? I wonder in what language the contract was written.)

Seems to me that those examples are pretty provincial. We with the "Dogpatch" mentality understand that without communication, businesses would not only lose a lot of money because of lower efficiency, but have many more injuries and deaths because of mistakes and miscommunication.

If people can't read instruction manuals, safety signs, blueprints, and other materials nor understand the people who are trying to teach them, how can they possibly be an effective employee.

Lilly's solution, of course, would lay the responsibilty on the employer, requiring that they print all signs and printed materials in multiple languages and hire multiple translaters so the English speaking workers and managers can understand what they say.

Lilly thinks of herself as a well educated sophisticate who understands the big picture far better than we rednecks with the "Dogpatch mentality."

In fact, it is Lilly who rarely thinks anything through and posts inane shortsight pap to make herself feel good, because after all, it's good intentions that are the liberal's stock and trade.


lilly
"I notice that Americans from small-town-and-rural-America don't want anything to happen, anywhere, ever, unless it is something that is already happening in small-town-and-rural-America."

The oh so cosmopolitan NY Times, which thinks of itself as the world's newspaper, still can't manage to give decent coverage of soccer, even though that is the world's most popular sport. It's nothing but a provincial rag.

Let's separate public from private here
English is the main language of the country. Therefore all PUBLIC business should take place in English. Period.

Private businesses should have their own choice as to what language they use. If a businessman wishes to open a store where only Mandarin Chinese is spoken, that's HIS CHOICE. There is no reason to restrict businesses.

At the same time, it is wrong for individuals to use the government to force businesses to change their language of operation.

It would be the height of lunacy for me to go to a shop in which only Swahili is spoken and DEMAND that they speak English. And this is talking of such a shop in the U.S. Now imagine me entering a shop in a region where Swahili is the common tongue and DEMANDING that they speak English.

You see?

Bob_C
Yea......what you said.....

A common language unites a Nation.
English is the common language that unites America and anyone not fluent in English is condemned to second class status.

Democrats want various factions in America so they can pit them against each other and scam each one with promises that are never kept.

If America allows a Spanish power faction to form here, we will end up being weakened by the same continued strife Canada has with the French.

None of our public documents or ballots should be published in any language other than English.

immigration
FINGERMAN SAYS
"I love it when the Republicans stand there with their cloak of love for all mankind, unless it takes money out of their pocket."

When 85%of the country fights amnesty I don't think all those people are Reps. And anyone who would insult all Reps is so blindly loyal to his party that he can't see what is going on around him. The racists in this country are big business for exploiting these people for low wages. The racists are the Hollywoodites and others who want cheap garderners and housekeepers. You don't seem to mind that these people worry about their pocket. And if the cloak of love for all mankind we Republicans have means we have to turn America into a third world country then you are right. I am not for it.

Roy Masters Saw It Many Years Ago

He admonished immigrants to certainly be proud of their heritage, but this is America - a melting pot of various cultures. Bring yours to the pot, but don't try to create a cultural 'island' in this country. To do so is dangerously counter-productive.

Or, as Reverend Luis Cortes, a boardmember of the Esperanza school in Philadelphia says, "Speak Spanish for your soul; speak English for your pocket book."

ThunderThudd
Are you old enough to remember Chief ThunderThudd on Howdy Doody? Ahhh the days when things were a lot more simple. Maybe that is why you use the name????

Illegals
Does anyone think that the people who are pushing amnesty, Dems, some Reps, big business actually care about the illegals welfare? They are in it for votes and cheap labor. Of course the Dems don't want them to have to speak English. They might have to pay them more money.If they are so worried about illegals why have they let them be exploited all these years. There are Hispanic groups who are fighting amnesty. The ones who are here legally know what is going to happen. This will be a third world country.
Hillary Clinton gets millions of dollars in campaign money from India. She has promised them outsourcing will never stop. Just type in Hillary Clinton and India.
Mexico and India are wealthy countries. They could well afford to create decent paying jobs for its people. Instead they send them here. They also allow American Cos to put businesses in Mexico and pay the people slaves wages. What is more racist than that. The leaders of Mexico are more racist against it's people than Americans.
There is no way America can assimilate all these people. And anyone who thinks we can has been living under a rock or is one of the people who want to exploit these people for low wages and want to destoy the middle class. They want to sit in their lavish homes on the hill and look down on poverty just as Mexico and India do. And anyone who doesn't know about the NAU should look it up.

One other observation Part.2
I own a graphics design company All of the computer workstations' operating systems, GUIs and all of the complex graphics applications and their manuals are all written in English. All of the projects we do are in English.

Occasionally, we hire people with very good design talent but who are unskilled in the high-end graphic sofware we use. We start them off at a lower wage and teach them such very complex graphics applications as Adobe Graphics Suite and 3dsMax, and when they get to a certain point, we give them simple projects. As their skill grows, their wages go up and they're given more complicated projects.

To attempt to teach someone these applications who can't read or speak English, and for them to work on projects which are to be written in English would be impossible.

In spite of Lilly's warm, fuzzy good intentions, no matter how talented a non-English speaking applicant is, we just can't hire them. We work in a fast-paced environment to close deadlines and the dated material we produced cannot be late or flawed.

Lilly's advocacy of multi-lingual workplaces is a feel-good fantasy. People who don't speak English must work for employers whose shop speaks their language or are simply relegated to shoveling snow, or nannying for parents who don't care that the person who's caring for their children can't even make a 911 call about a choking child without waiting for a translator.

Again, Lilly thinks she's doing these people a favor, when in fact she's doing nothing else but making herself feel good by wallowing in her good intentions.

ILLEGALS
What I wonder is who found out these 2 illegals were fired from their jobs. When you lose your job do you go to your Congressman or Senator to complain. Do the people for amnesty follow illegals around to make sure they don't lose their jobs? Do the Dems have a hot line that allows illegals to complain about anything happening to them so Pelosi can jump in and save them? Did they have an agent in the Salvation Army who reports every time an illegal loses a job. Other people get fired from jobs and you don't see government jumping in there. Who made this such a big deal? How did it get to the attn of Pelosi. Are the illegals so sure of themselves now that any time they lose a job or feel they have been wronged they go to the government? Who brought all this to Dems attn?

BOB C
Exactly. Well said

Myke and Bob_C
Myke.....You are right on target about the nau garbage. I voted for Jorge twice. The war was the prime motivator there. But his push on this nau goes hand in hand with amnesty. And, have you noticed the blinding absence of info on this nau on the mainstream media news. They are helping to push it by not talking about it.
Bob_C....Excellent example of the need for requirement to speak English on the job. But, be careful that the ACLU doesn't send someone in that doesn't speak English well or at all to set you up for a lawsuit. Whaddaya mean they wouldn't do that....'course they would.

LILLY
I think it is plain to see how Lilly feels. It is the guy who shovels her sidewalk or waits on her or anyone else she comes in contact with. It is always I I I never we. And she is so kind to help the person with his language by pointing. That is great. The rest of us who go abroad should learn from Lilly and help these people. I am sure she is the only one who would do this. And I bet she overpays them and her servants.

Uncle B
Uncle B ..you are so right about the lawsuit. After all we should not expect them to learn English but we should learn Spanish so we can communicate with them. Just as we now have to train and hire bilingual school teachers.
You are right about amnesty being part of NAU. That is the biggest reason some are fighting for amnesty. And noone is mentioning it. When George Bush was in Canada for a meeting between the Mexican and Canadian leaders and was asked about it, he said they were discussing chocolates. Just in your face arrogant lying. I too voted for Bush. But then if the choice was between him and a man who threw his medals into the fire..then later said he threw someone elses medals into the fire. Who called our soldiers baby killers and rapists...who got two purple hearts and never spent a day in sick bay and said he would bring American companies back to American when he couldn't even convince his wife and her family to bring the 13 Heinz companies back to America ...hell I would still vote for Bush.

Beware the Ides of December
This is no longer a case of simple immigration as in the days of old. People like HalD and Lilly like to compare the Hispanics of today to the immigrants of the early 1900s when we had the other large immigration wave. At that time the largest group coming over were the Italians, but at no time were they coming over in the sheer raw number or the percentages of the population that the Hispanics are coming now. We have a lot more legal immigrants coming now thanks to Ted the swimmer than we had back then. When you combine that with the flood of illegal migrants, who vastly outnumber the legals, it becomes a nation-devastating event. We don’t even know how many are here and how many are coming across every day. How can you make rational immigration policy under these conditions?

We now have entire communities in California that are Hispanic in origin who speak Spanish and not English, except in the case of a few of the elite. We never had that in the old days. This is not immigration for the purpose of assimilation. This is migration for the purpose of enrichment. The people in these communities will never learn English. Those communities are now “little Mexico”. I’ll give you one guess as to how long this would last in Mexico if say 30,000 Americans went into Mexico and set up an English speaking town, with an American city hall and practiced a strictly American culture, including celebrations of July 4th.

Beware citizens a nation that will not control it’s borders will not stay the same nation. If you don’t believe this then do a little historic research on the subject of Brazil and Argentina post 1900s after a massive influx.

And to top it all off, we have courts, politicians, priests, and other supposedly responsible people aiding and abetting the breaking of the law and the destruction of our civilization.

Uncle B
NAU is being ignored. And you are right. Amnesty is tied into that. When Bush had a meeting with the leaders of Mexico and Canada and was asked about it he said they were discussing chocolates.
I voted for Bush too. But when the choice was between him and a man who threw his medals into the fire and then said he threw someone elses medals into the fire..who got 2 Purple Hearts and never spent a day in sick bay...who said he would bring American companies back to America but couldn't even convince his wife and her family to bring back the 13 Heinz companies..hell I would still vote for Bush.

Myke
Given the choice between Hellery or Jorge....
reluctantly Jorge.
Glenn Beck is the only one I have seen that has done any sort of reporting on the nau. I am so aggravated about all this crap I watch a lot of the news shows......definately to the dismay of my friends and coworkers when I try to discuss it.

UncleB

And don't forget my daughter, Princess SummerFallWinterSpring

Equal Opportunity laws?
I don't see how this case has a leg to stand on. The equal opportunity laws say nothing about a right to speak any language on the job, they just cover race, gender, and sexual-orientation. Language is like any other skills an employer might require. It goes along with good communications skills or good writing and spelling, or like in the 'old' days, your typing speed.

As far as I'm concerned, I think the Salvation Army was kind-hearted to give people with poor English skills a chance to learn the language while working there. Talk about biting the hand that feeds you! The Salvation Army would be better off not to hire them in the first place. Think of all the money they're now spending on legal fees instead of using it to help people.

Another observation, my county has a large Russian immigrant population and all of the Russian kids that attend school with mine speak English, no matter how recently arrived. The Mexican boy who was my daughter's lab partner required a translator and was obviously illegal (my daughter ended up doing all of the lab work). All of the Russian people we know are grateful to be here and love the US. They work hard and are quite successful.

And finally, my son just got fired from his job that he held for 2 years (Merry Christmas!). There was no reason, just an "it's not working out". That's how it works, they don't have to give a reason. Now he'll find another company that appreciates his skills.

illegals
Former Pres Fox said whereever there is a Mexican that is Mexico. He also said they take jobs that even Afro Americans won't take. Do I hear racism against a big part of Americans in that sentence? They are taking down our flags at highschools that American taxes paid for and putting up a Mexican flag. They are demonstrating in our streets because they are afraid to demonstrate in their streets and yet they are loyal to Mexico instead of the country who is feeding them and giving them free medical.
It is not about illegals. It is about big business and low wages and Hollywoodites and people like Lilly who want free housekeepers and gardeners and snow shovelers.
It is about outsourcing American jobs. It is about big business putting companies in Mexico,etc so they don't have to pay Americans a decent wage.

Myke
As long as I state the job requirement up front, I'm covered. Being able to read and speak Engish clearly and concisely is first on the list and ALL applicants are tested with the same tests.

If that isn't good enough for them Too bad. I'd go out of business and start a new one before I'd humor the morons in the ACLU with fighting a ridiculous suit such as that. I've paid off enough politicians to get that suit delayed for a LONG time.

Uncle B
oh yes the choice between Hitlery and Jorge..def Jorge. Glen Beck is the only one brave enough to talk about the NAU. Why everyone is ignoring the subject amazes me. It is real and is happening. Started when they passed NAFTA. Now the Sea Treaty. And amnesty. They are taking our language and our dollar. And they are not going to build the fence. They don't want to tear it down after someone for amnesty gets elected. There will be open borders. And the illegals will find themselves once more living in a country like Mexico with corrupt leaders. Your co workers don't want to discuss it because because they don't want to believe it. All they would have to do is type in NAU and find all the proof they need. And the longer they hide from it and dismiss it as some loony conspiracy the worse we will be. NumbersUSA will tell you the truth about it.

LL
Sadly there are as many A-holes in business as there are in the rank and file.

Most of us conduct ourselves with a code of ethics with which we treat our employees with respect, dignity and a realization that they are part of the company.

I've had to let people go in my many years as an employer. It's never a pleasant experience, but it's especially painful when it's not the employee's fault, such as when my company had to downsize after 9/11 just to be able to meet the payroll of the employees who were left.

When things picked up again, I was able to hire two of them back, but the rest were able to find employment elsewhere and I hope they are doing well.

Bob C
I am so glad you are covered. Lets hope Pelosi doesn't try to change that too but since you have taken care of politicians you are covered. And I admire you for sticking to it. We are not allowed to wash our own cars because of water shortage. There was a car wash I used to go to that hired all illegals to do the cleaning. I quit going there. If I have to kick dirt off my car to get in it I won't go there. And apparently a lot of people feel the same way.They used to do hundreds of cars a day and now when I pass there..noone is there. We are going to have to fight it everyway we can especially the way you are doing as an employer.

LL
You sound like the employer who actually cares about his workers. Not the big business who care only about low wages and their employees are not humans they are just another warm body that can be replaced. I applaud you for the respect and concern you give your employees.

Bob C
Sorry. That applause was for you not for ll as it may have seemed in my posting

Bob C
I applaud you for the way you treat your employees with respect. Not the way a lot of businesses do who think employees are not human but just another warm body that can be replaced.

illegals
If a candidate who is pro-amnesty is elected America is doomed. I don't think we can stop open borders if this happens. And that means the NAU. It amazes me that noone is talking about this. Noone can ask about it at debates because they decide what questions they want asked.
It also amazes me that noone is doing anything about the fence when they know terrorists are coming across the border. There are so many Islamists legal and illegal here that soon Osama will be able to arrive in the back of an open convertible. The power and wealth of the elites who are trying to turn us into a third world country will not impress him.
I watched the demonstration in Sudan. Every man in Sudan must have been in the streets carrying guns and machetes and clamoring for the death of a school teacher for naming a teddy bear Muhammad. We know how Islamists feel about and treat their own women. Can anyone see them negotiating with Hillary?

Myke
Maybe you are already aware of it but, there is a very good site http://www.stopthenorthamericanunion.com/
It has lots of info, history resources. This one world government thing has been around for years. I think it also has contacts for others of like mind. Interesting reading on the subject.I got started on it one evening about 9 pm and couldn't tear myself away till almost 3am

Myke
In all fairness to big business, I'm not a company who has to compete on a global scale and deal with a government whose regulatory and tax policies are crippling. I don't have to compete with labor costs where employees are paid in a week what I pay my employees in an hour. I'd not be able to stay in business were that the case.

Employee relations in multinational companies competing on a global market are quite different than my little local company. And I'm not even affected by the huge influx of illegals because my company requires highly skilled and tech-savvy employees.

I'm just a small company who's so small that most of the OSHA rules don't apply. I don't have a union shop where demands are outrageous, but I am big enough to be able to provide a good portion of health insurance premiums (75%) to my employees, pay them a decent wage and provide them with a few modest benefits like matching 401K, vacations time and paid tuition on work-related education.

I dread Hillarycare and her promise to close all tax loophole to corporations. She says that with a straight face while promising to create thousands of new jobs. First of all, government doesn't create new jobs - entrepeneurs do. Second of all, when you ratchet up the cost of doing business, you don't create jobs, you destroy them.

Giving the Gift of English
First of all I strongly feel that English should be our country's official language. I also strongly feel that if you work for a company you should be able to speak English in order to communicate with fellow workers and possibly customers if that is the business you are in.

Back in 1961 I was stationed in Norfolk, Virginia for 3 weeks of training and it was posted on the post bulletin board that only English would be used between 6am and 6pm. and that was a government military post. Since then we have become politically correct and the whole country is going down the tubes.

Joe D.

Conversation
Excellent conversation this afternoon without the trolls mucking things up.....well Lilly kinda got things stirred up at first. Guess we scared her away. Time for happy hour y'all.

I think the REAL STORY is....
We no longer live in seperate, isolated "countries" anymore (at least in north america & throughout Europe). Believe if you want to or not, but we are going to see a continued trend toward "melding" the different 1st-world nations together, a homogenization of cultures.

The internet is a revolutionary thing. When I log onto youtube, I talk (type) to people in France, New Zealand, Brazil, Canada, Lebanon, South Korea, Norway.....it is becoming a more commonplace thing. Give it another dozen years....we will all become more & more this "global comminity" some of you seem to dread.

I have found that people in Germany & Iceland have more in common with us than not. I'm even e-mailing a girl from Saudi Arabia & discussing the differences in culture, which are immense in this case. But we find lots of common ground.

I think English is fine (all the above mentioned countries, people I correspond with, all have a varying proficiency in English). But this elusive thing called "American values" is going to give way to what's best for the world, not just our own country. Honestly, we can all see this coming.

Cuban Americans speak English, crumbs!
I don't know where you got the idea they, as an entire community, speak only Spanish. Maybe the criminals that Fidel shoved off on us in the 1980s (possibly), but the Cuban Americans who have been here since the 1960s were eager to learn English because they are an industrious bunch who wanted to succeed. Yes, I'm sure they speak Spanish within their communities and homes, but most are truly bilingual and have strived to be so ever since they came to this country. That's one reason they have been so incredibly successful as a migrant group -- because they assimilated and got right to work earning the American good life.

Former imigrants learned English
Yes, many formed non-English-speaking communities. My FIL has stories of walking through the 1950s Boston and hearing the different languages. However, in almost all cases, they also learned English. My grand-father immigrated to the US from Sweden in 1906. He was already in his late-30s when he got here. He got on the ship knowing only a few words of English. He came off the ship a couple of weeks later able to navigate a bit in his new language -- well enough to get a job digging ditches from a man hiring off Ellis Island. He didn't like digging ditches and he'd been a fairly educated man in Sweden, so he quickly learned more and better English and then he went to night school after a 12-hour day of ditches to learn to read and write English. Within a year, he was working as a clerk completely in English. When he moved westward, he encountered my grandmother who lived in a Swedish American community in the Midwest. She already knew English. She'd learned it in school similarly to how the Amish learn English now. Her father who was also an immigrant from Sweden spoke excellent English. Her mother didn't, but she also didn't need to.

And, I think that's the important issue here. Most immigrants in past generations learned English because it was necessary to get a job, which you needed to live. Now, someone will file a lawsuit on their behalf so it isn't necessary, so they don't bother and if they can't find a job, they think that society should support them in their "disability". It's not that English is a great language or anything. It just happens to be the language spoken here. So, if you want to live here, you should be able to speak it. If you want to speak your "native" language at home and with friends, that's good, but unless there is a physical reason other than laziness to not learn English, there's no excuse.

Intelligible Conversation
Before I retired, some of the times when I called my company's suppliers I had great difficulty understanding the person who answered the telephone because that person obviously had learned English as an adult. My feeling was that such a person should not be the primary contact the supplier had with customers or prospective customers. It was even worse when such a person, or anyone who had never learned to enunciate properly left me a voicemail message, for I could not ask for clarification. How can you survive in business if your customers cannot understand your employees? How can you survive in business if you are forbidden to make certain that your customers' first contact can communicate intelligibly with your customers?

An aside
I'm a software engineer. The field is increasingly populated by well-educated, English-speaking folks here on H and L visas. Much of their conversation is in a mix of Hindi and English, apparently shifting for ease of self-expression. They're hard working, and I assume less expensive than native Americans on average. But they're not demanding any accommodation; they understand that business is done in English in America, and they conform themselves to that. In addition, most of them are more polite than the average American. My point? Americans need to get their educational chops together or this particular market will be owned by others.

And as a follow on to an earlier post, not only are the manuals in English, the programming languages themselves (C, C++, Java, etc.) all use English keywords. It's how the languages are defined...so far.

Another Perspective of Ridiculousness
So, a non-English speaking person can go to any English speaking local radio station, apply as a DJ, and if he doesn't get hired, he can sue because of language discrimination?

So, they can also go to any TV station, apply for a News Anchor job, and since they can't speak English, they would have to be hired or be sued?

good enough for a reprise
by aurorawatcher (slight redaction/edit):

"And, I think that's the important issue here. Most immigrants in past generations learned English because it was necessary to get a job, which you needed to live. Now, someone will file a lawsuit on their behalf so it isn't necessary, so they don't bother, and if they can't find a job, some think that society should support them in their "disability".

It's not that English is a great language or anything... it just happens to be the language spoken in America. So, IF YOU WANT TO LIVE HERE, YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO SPEAK ENGLISH. If you want to speak your "native" language at home and with friends, that's fine, but unless there is a physical reason other than laziness not to learn English, there's NO EXCUSE."

*************************************************

I thought there was a lot said well in the above paragraph...

Will
"I think English is fine (all the above mentioned countries, people I correspond with, all have a varying proficiency in English). But this elusive thing called "American values" is going to give way to what's best for the world, not just our own country. Honestly, we can all see this coming."

So you're saying that those "elusive American values" such as freedom, self determination, individualism, free market capitalism and a strong work ethic is going to go the way of France's 35 hour work week and stifling PC regulations, Mexico's mind numbing corruption and poverty, North Korea's rigid totalitarianism and the Middle Easts barbaric, 6th century theocracy? Oh, and how about China's communism in which workers have no rights and are paid a pittance in unsafe work environments? Is that what's "...best for the world...", Will?

Nice of you to think this is all coming and you seemed to have resigned yourself to it or maybe even welcome it. There are those who'd fight to the death to keep those American values intact and let the rest of the world go to hell in a hand basket. If they want to live like Erance, the middle east or China among other third-rate hellholes, fine. Have at it. But I won't go easily.

Unintended Consequences
Whether the plaintiffs prevail or not, the message is clear to employers. The Salvation Army was probably being compassionate by hiring these people. In the future, employers who want their emplyees to speak English should turn down applicants who do not already speak English due to a lack of adequate communication skills. Here in Texas it is not uncommon for employers to requires Spanish language skills as a precondition to employment. In South Texas many retail employees speak no English whatsoever.

English as a second language
You'd be wrong to say it wouldn't matter to me if my auto mechanic didn't speak English. If he is going to explain to me what needs to be done and if he is going to negotiate with me about what I can pay for having done, he'd better speak pretty good conversational and auto mechanic English.

It's been years since I've booked a room in a big city hotel, but have you ever called housekeeping and have someone unable to understand that you need a towel or that your toilet has overflowed? If I were staying in a large hotel in a foreign vacation spot, I would want housekeeping to at least recognize the words towel and toilet or come up to see what I want.

On an overnight in Belgium, we went to a restaurant and I had to point to what I wanted (could recognize beef steak) and had to settle for what I could figure out to order based on no knowledge of French. That was entirely my fault. I would hate for long term residents of the United States to have to settle for what they could figure out rather than to be able to take advantage of every opportunity available here.



No
Bob C:

"Are you saying that only non English speaking people have the right to pick the language spoken in their businesses? In other words they can require Americans whom they hire to speak their language on the job or refuse to hire them for that reason?"

We are saying that if you can refuse to hire or fire someone because they can't speak English, a business can also refuse to hire or fire someone because they can't speak Spanish or Chinese. If a business is free to tell you what type of dress you can wear, they are free to tell you what language(s) you must speak. So as you all support the Salvation Army firing the two Spanish speakers (who had no contact with customers I might add), a business should be just as free to not hire or fire someone that can't say speak Spanish or Chinese.

And for another one of your posts, it is not just that Americans won't do these type of jobs, just that there are not enough of them. Look at the total in the labor force and the unemployment rate? You think you can replace 8 million workers and not disrupt the economy?

Simply untrue
Vic:

"We now have entire communities in California that are Hispanic in origin who speak Spanish and not English, except in the case of a few of the elite. We never had that in the old days."

This is simply untrue. The US had exactly that--the Germans in the 1790s and later, the Chinese and Japanese (does Chinatown, SF, circa 1850 ring a bell?) You and others like you that believe--they all came here and started speaking English right of the boat and there were no non-English newspapers and no political campaigns in foreign languages, etc etc...and all myths.

Actually Vic, the largest immigrant group in the US are the Germans. In the Civil War, there were entire regiments of Germans--who spoke German and were given commands in German.


Because it is a myth
NAU is being ignored because it is a myth put forward by nutcases--the same types that also believe in alien abductions.

There is an excellent piece in Newsweek this week on this very topic. The NAFTA highway...doesn't exist, a single currency, nope (although it would make sense at some point), freedom of movement of labor between the three countries, nope again. Of course those of you who believe in black helicopters aren't going to believe it--afterall, Newsweek is no doubt part of the conspiracy too (cue music from the Twilight Zone).

And they do now
"However, in almost all cases, they also learned English."

And this is the case now and a poll was released yesterday that showed Hispanic voters now favor Democrats 57% to 23%, a 21 point swing from 2006. 23%? That is getting into black support for the GOP territory? Have fun losing Nevada, Arizonia, Colorado, New Mexico and Texas next year and you can blame the Mexican bashing on this..you know terms like "Mexican invasion" and other comments Linda Chavez put in her column earlier this year, looks like she was right afterall, but they always kill the messenger, right?


No
"So, a non-English speaking person can go to any English speaking local radio station, apply as a DJ, and if he doesn't get hired, he can sue because of language discrimination?"

Because of BFOQ, the job requires you to speak English just as if you applied to be a DJ on a Spanish station or Chinese station, you would be required to be fluent in those languages. These were warehouse workers who sorted clothes, they have no contact with customers. They had worked their for an extended period of time and did their jobs without having to know English and then the SA (hmm...interesting) demanded they learn English in a year or be fired.

Hard to make a case that English is part of the BFOQ for this job when it didn't impact their job duties or performance in the past.


English as official
"First of all I strongly feel that English should be our country's official language."

And what effect would that have? What do you see as the impact of such a policy?

English as official
"First of all I strongly feel that English should be our country's official language."

And what effect would that have? What do you see as the impact of such a policy?

RE: Giving the gift...
I am sick to death of the M&M's (Mexicans and Muslims) with their threats, insults and demands. If you are an immigrant, speak English.
To become a citizen you are obliged to speak, read and write English. Immigrants, from the time we became a nation were happy to learn the language of this country. They were truly working for the American dream. Today's immigrant's, retain loyalty to their own coutries. They do not take the words of the citizen's oath seriously. Illegals do not have to bother to learn, they aren't going to stay anyway. The American Dream is a phrase that really bothers me when applied to today's invaders. They don't deserve it. Let them go home and find the Mexican Dream.

Immigrants
Liz:

As an immigrant you are only obligated to learn and speak English during the interview and later the oath--at that point you can if you wish never speak English again. And if you are over 65 and have lived in the US for a set number of years, you aren't required to learn English at all.

Immigrants today learn English just as they did before and immigrants today do retain their loyality to their home country as did those before them.


Learn the language or go home
Immigrants are bombarding our cities and expect the citizens of the United States to cater to them! If the immigrants coming to this country legally want to remain they certainly should learn our language "English".

I do not feel compassion for those that do not want to learn the English language, I only hope they do not come to an incompleted bridge sign that says in English (road out, turn around)

When immigrants come to this country their story is all the same, "we come here for a better life", well that better life includes the English language.

This is the United States of America, not China, Mexico or any other foreign country! As I have stated, learn the language or go home! If the individual cannot communicate with me they will not get a job working for me, it's that simple. I support every employer taking that stand and the rest of the "legal" citizens should support them as well.

Akagi - do you know any immigrants?
My church has been teaching the foreign-born English and citizenship for 60 years, so we have a great familiarity. Half the church members are immigrants. It's significant to us that our citizenship students no longer want to know anymore than how to memorize the 100 questions. Our pastor, who is of Hispanic descent, says he's seen a huge increase in illegals over the course of his 35 years in the ministry. When he was a kid in Texas, he said it was common for people to come across the border and work. The ones who were planning to stay wanted to learn English. The ones who were just making money to send home were less concerned about that. Now, he sees many who are in this country illegally and who have ZIP interest in learning English. They resent that their children must learn English in school. They complain to Ramon that they fear their children will disconnect from the family if they learn English.

Our older immigrants left whereever they were from, fully expecting never to return. My Gfather wanted to be an American before he ever left Sweden. Sure, he liked interacting with others from the Old Country, but they all were Americans. They wanted their children to be Americans. That's not our experience with newer immigrants. They want to live in the US with the US benefits, but not become Americans. They don't want their children to be Americans. They want to bring the Old Country here and live in it.

The problem with that is that no country works very well under that scenario.

Harming the US economy
If we deported all the illegal immigrants in this country, some claim, we would irreparably harm the US economy. I'm not so sure. I think we would provide work for a lot of high school and college students, a lot of senior who don't want to work full-time, and a lot of people who have quit looking for work because they can't find any. And, instead of allowing business owners to pocket the income taxes of the illegal immigrants (yes, they do that!), the functional SSN of the US citizens that are hired in their place would send the income taxes to the government, which liberals ought to be happy about since they enjoy watching government spend the people's money. And, if there was a labor short-fall, you might find a lot of under-employed Americans taking a second job -- which isn't a horrible thing. It used to be how people got ahead in this country. Also, the money that currently goes to Mexico (did you know that American money is the largest contributor to the economy of the state of Sonoro?) would remain in the US stimulating our economy rather than Mexico's.

I think some industries in some states would see some disarray. Maybe you wouldn't be able to get a pizza delivered for a while and you might need to mow your own lawn, but I think within a year we'd see REVITALIZATION of the American economy rather than harm.

Let's put American citizens (no matter what country they were born in) back to work and send the illegals home.

Good article
Our daughter-in-law is Russian and is in the process of obtaining LEGAL citizenship. She speaks English and has gone to school to be a medical biller. Our son recently retired after 23 years in the Air Force and they plan on buying a house in our area. After only being here for 2 weeks she has already obtained a job.
Now, the difference appears to be one of motivation and realizing what it takes to make it in our country. Then again, Russian immigrants don't seem to be the population the left panders to.
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