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Thursday, September 13, 2007
Ken Blackwell :: Townhall.com Columnist
The Freedom Trip Wire
by Ken Blackwell
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Will the Dems' health care Christmas Present to America be an improvement or detriment to our health care system?


For many liberals and conservatives, the pivotal battleground this election season isn't Iowa, New Hampshire, or South Carolina. It's Utah. There, a fight over the state's universal K-12 school choice program portends to be the trip wire for the school choice movement across the country.

Utah is the location of the fault line between those who would prod conventional public schools out of their mediocrity and those 21st century Luddites who will protect the status quo to their death. The latter group's battle cry is, "Entrenched bureaucracy forever!"

Earlier this year, Utah's legislature and governor - in the state's rugged western tradition - bucked the powerful teachers' unions and provided parents with true educational choices for their children. The groundbreaking initiative was met with substantial indignation by state and national teacher union bosses who immediately filed petitions to do away with the new law.

Ironically, as the nation celebrates the 50th anniversary of the historic civil rights struggle for access to quality education in Little Rock, Ark., these unions have been morphed into the George Wallaces, Lester Maddoxes, and other freedom deniers of our times.

The head of Utah's largest teachers' union promised an "ugly, mean and expensive" campaign, and the National Education Association has given her $3 million to wage it. That's a lot of money in a state with one media market. School choice advocates have pledged to raise and spend whatever necessary to protect the program. They seem ready to blunt the union's trademark bare-knuckle tactics in defense of their children's civil rights.

In fact, grassroots groups like Parents for Choice in Education and child-centered school choice advocates like Dr. Patrick Byrne of Overstock.com are on the front line of this fight. They seem to have the will and fire power necessary to win this battle.

If they succeed in defending the law, school choice advocates will give Utah's parents a valuable educational tool and the nation will have a universal school choice model to evaluate and, if successful, emulate.

Called the Parents Choice in Education Act, the program was carefully crafted to address the concerns typically associated with previous voucher-driven school choice programs.

Children receive between $500 and $3,000 in scholarships depending on their parents' income. Every child currently in public school can participate. Children attending independent schools will be evaluated according to criteria such as prior qualification for federal lunch programs where lunch is either free or at a reduced cost. Students entering kindergarten this year are immediately eligible, with all students qualifying by 2020.

Non-government schools must meet rigid state standards to participate. The schools must give students nationally approved achievement tests. The results of the testing must then be given to state officials and parents. The schools must meet important accountability standards and disclose credentials of educators as well as the institution's own accreditation status. Independent auditors also must pour through the school's financial records and report the information to the state.

Under the program, vouchers can only be used at non-government schools. Before parents are given access to the scholarship funds, they must actively opt their children out of a conventional public school. When parents opt their children out of a conventional public school, the state will continue to fund that school - for five years - as if the students never left. Therefore, if a public school loses a significant number of students, it will have a few years to address the root causes of the departures before state funding is shifted.

The program seems to address the most often mentioned concerns of school choice opponents. It provides for non-government school accountability.

It continues to fund underperforming government-run public schools and gives those schools five years to get their act together. And, it serves a very real public need - the need for quality enhancing, freedom-expanding competition in the education marketplace.

Parents want the empowerment that comes with educational choice. Pilot voucher programs in cities like New York, Cleveland, and Milwaukee are consistently overwhelmed with tens of thousands of applicants for a few hundred slots. Parents in those cities desperately want to rescue their children from failing public schools and unresponsive education bureaucrats.

Utahns are no different.

"With vouchers, parents can find the education that is best for their children," the spokeswoman for Utah's Parents for Choice in Education, Nancy Pomeroy, told the Desert Morning News.

Entrenched teachers' unions and their supporters see things differently. "This has nothing to do about educating children," State Senator Gene Davis, a Democrat, told the Associated Press. "It's about taking taxpayer dollars and giving them to private industry."

Not really. It's about letting taxpayers make their own decisions with their money. Parents most certainly qualify as taxpayers.

The senator's comments may confound parents, but they shed light on the fact that for school choice opponents it's really not about educating children. For them, it's about collective bargaining, retirement benefits, and lowered accountability.

How can we forget the infamous words of the late president of the American Federation of Teachers, Albert Shanker, who said, "When school children start paying union dues, that's when I'll start representing the interests of school children."

I doubt Utah's school choice advocates will let the voters forget this come November.

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About The Author
Mr. Blackwell, a contributing editor at Townhall.com, is a senior fellow at the Family Research Council and American Civil Rights Union.
 
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Principle Approach /Classical Education
5. Principle Approach
This is an approach favored by people seeking a strong Christian or other religious world view and interested in developing future legislation from a Christian or other religious world view. All of their texts tend to have a Providential view of history (that means God made history happen the way it did according to His plan for mankind) and reinforces Godly traits defined by some Christians or other religious people. The Christians using the Principle Approach are known for holding the view that the founding fathers were Christian and they have a heavy emphasis on American History. (Not everyone seeking a “Christ-centered” education falls into this category. Neither do all fundamentalist Christians.) Some prepackaged materials available, some parents design their own studies.

6.Classical Education
Classical education is usually defined by the Trivium. The 3 stages have many terms. Stage 1 Grammar (facts) stage 2 Logic (cause and effect) stage 3 Rhetoric (application). History is studied chronologically and formal Logic is usually studied systematically at a certain age. Usually Latin, Classical Greek, and sometimes ancient Hebrew are studied. First source materials are strongly favored which can create the need for studying “dead” languages, although some are satisfied with good English translations. There are two camps. Those who are textbook/scope and sequence oriented and those who are Living Books oriented. The general principles and great books of Western culture are typically studied. Wide range of religious views here. There are several books that give outlines resource recommendations to guide the parent through this type of study.

Unit Studies and Living Books
3. Unit Studies
Typically these people integrate studies based on an era, historical event, person, character trait, technological development, or historical person. For example, if the Depression is the core of the unit study math, literature, science, history, economics, and writing will hinge on different elements of the Great Depression. This gives the student multidimensional understanding. Each child is given different assignments based on ability, but all study the same core theme. There are some resources available that guide a parent through pre-designed studies. Many must be designed by the parent.

4. Living Books
The best literature and writings on each subject are used. Think of it this way, instead of reading from a distilled over simplified textbook on, say, the Civil War, these people have their kids read several of the books the author of the textbook read preparing to write the textbook. Now, think of doing that for science, history, economics, literature, art, etc. This crowd is also known for nature studies “in the field.” Teaching a sense of wonder is common with this crowd. There are reading lists available in different books to guide a parent along

Traditonal School and Unschooling
1. Traditional School
This group typically uses prepackaged curriculum with a Scope and Sequence educational philosophy. Their daily and yearly schedules usually follow the 6-7 hour days of institutional settings and a 180 day school year with the summer off. Grading systems like those used in traditional school settings are the norm and aged grades mimic schools too. Textbooks and workbooks are staples. Desks, American flags, chalk/white boards and lectures fill their homes. Some parts of the homeschool community refer to these homeschoolers as “School-at-Homers”. This group varies widely in religious/philosophical views. There is a huge variety of these materials available to homeschoolers.

2. Unschooling
This is a broad term that applies to two distinct groups.

Group 1: They generally believe children are wired for learning, and their job as parents is to avoid interfering with the learning process. Their job is also to provide access to learning (books, lab equipment, etc.) guided by the child’s interests. They do not necessarily think children need to be “taught” outside of answering questions and teaching reading, writing, and arithmetic.

Group 2: They design every learning experience to answer the question, “When am I going to use this in real life?” by actually using almost exclusively real life, hands on, applied situations and projects. Only the real world here. They tend to be systematic but are very careful to take additional time to follow a child’s
interests too.

Other Monumental Problems
Since I assume most people reading this do not have any experience teaching (either at home or in an institutional setting) they may not be aware of the drastically different educational philosophies. So, it adds more fuel to the fire when we factor in the additional variables of how people will answer the question, "What characterizes a quality education?"

Forgive me for posting this, I know it's long, but I think it's important to see that the private sector has so many more KINDS of education available, unlike the public schools. If the government gets involved in determining where vouchers can and cannot be used (through accreditation) there is the potential problem of eliminating places parents can choose to send their kids. It also feeds resistance by people who begin sentences with, "I don't want my tax dollars paying for [insert educational philosophies you don't like]..."

I will post the 6 general types of educational philosophies that most homeschoolers fall into. These categories are not exclusive to the homeschool community.

Big Government Conservatives
Warren Small wrote:
"School vouchers are pseudo-libertarian snake oil."

It seems to me real libertarian types are inclined to avoid the government entirely and stick to truly private educational environments. No tax dollars, tax credits, vouchers, or deductions for us. I often joke that a real homeschooler's prayer is, "May God bless and keep the State ...far way from us!"

I think it is the big government conservatives that are the biggest potential problem. They may INTEND to free tax dollars from government schools, but in REALITY it may backfire and open the door to expanded government control over what will become the FORMER private sector.

In doing so, I worry it will mean the loss of freedom for those of us who are truly independent and self sufficient, and ultimately cause all forms of education it touches to decline in quality as a whole.

I for one will be watching Utah very closely.

education in america
the public schools remain the most democratic institution in american society.

they are controlled on a local level and the community has direct input into school policies and if you feel you don't then you are simply not involved.

as a school board member, i listen to literally hundreds of parents in public meetings on a monthly basis and respond to their critiques and suggestions or i would not continue to be re-elected.

any one familiar with education will tell you parental involvement is the key to any childs education, i am not against charter schools, magnet schools or home schooling.

i do have a problem with vouchers though because i do not want to fund islamic schools, satanic schools or wiccan schools with my tax money.
second of all, many parents do not have the money or time to adequately participate in moving their children outside their neighborhoods to go to school.

many families need the older children to come home after school to help with the family and even with vouchers how do middle income families come up with the money for transportation and food money and money for extracurricular activities.

are you aware that participating in sports or cheerleading or other various clubs costs the parents thousands of dollars a year?

with a voucher system you could have children leaving home at 6 in the morning and not returning until 6 or 7 at night even without participation in non-=academic activities.

my son is a senior in high school and we have been able to have many educational discussions about classes and books and ideas that i experienced 30 years ago.

from shakespeare and plato to great americans and even math concepts, our country has set up a shared educational experience that spans generations
this is something to not destroy lightly.

no matter your backround or ethnicity, to share common cultural values is a thread that holds this country together.

mountain rose
just a note before you respond with a list of democrats that are hypocrites.

i am fully aware that they exist in both parties.

i am arguing that for any conservative to act high and mighty about how liberals and democrats don't have family values and conservatives and republicans do- flies in the face of recent history.

mountain rose
calm down
my choice of words was symbolic not literal.
i meant i will call conservatives on the fact that some very prominent and strident conservatives have been outed to be anything but a family values individual.

from the many conservatives involved in the clinton impeachment like hyde, burton and livingston and gingrich who were involved in affairs to rush and drugs and 3 marriages to bennet the gambler to o'reilly the sexual predator we have seen a pattern of hypocrisy.

i mean then there is cunningham, ney, foley, vitter and craig.

for any conservative to claim that they represent family values is farsical.

liberals believe in free speech as much as any conservative and i personally have hatred towards no man or woman.

i participate in http://www.slate.com and see much more hate here than at that liberal website.

religiouslib writes: 13, 2007 8:08 PM

we had a charter school that was giving out diplomas which turned out to be bogus…..do you think muslims, or wiccans or satanists should have no curriculum requirements or be allowed to teach whatever they want?

you are obviously a sincere person but the over-riding need in this country of immigrants is a common cultural experience that, in my humble opinion, comes from a common curriclum experience in school.

DESKJOCKEY WRITES

The beauty of nongiver-ment skuls is that they can fail. Now I suspect that the charter skul has either had a huge overhaul, is closed or still has happy customers. Regardless, if the parents want to spend “their money” not mine for that product, go for it. If they want Wiccan, Muslim or Satan ed and they are willing to pay for it, go for it. If they don’t the skul must close as money stops. However, giver-ment skuls can’t fail no matter how bad they get or how radical their indoctrination.

Common curriculum means common indoctrination and serfdom.

B.F. Skinner, “Children are merely animals to be ‘trained’ for the ‘good’ of the state.”

Ronald Reagan, "[I]f you serve a child a rotten hamburger in America, federal, state, and local agencies will investigate you, summon you, close you down, whatever. But if you provide a child with a rotten education, nothing happens, except that you're liable to be given more money to do it with.”

Lewis Perelman. The Hudson Institute, "The public school is North America's collective farm."

Milton Friedman, "There is an inverse relationship between the amount of money the state spends on education and the academic results achieved thereby."

Regarding parents refusing to teach giver-ment ideology, courts opined 1/1/38, “'The law as a racial and national instrument entrusts German parents with the education of their children only under certain conditions, namely, that they educate them in the fashion that the nation and state expect."

Continued

Elong writes

They keep raising property taxes because they "don't have enough money", but nothing EVER changes.

DESKJOCEY WRITES

Milton Friedman replied in 1994 when asked why so many high school grads have a socialist viewpoint: "Because they're products of a socialist system — namely, public education. How can you expect such a system to instill the values of free enterprise and competition when it is based on monopoly state ownership, abhors competition, and survives only through compulsion and taxation?"

missing words
my post above should read:
The biggest problem with education schools is
their lack of rigor. If their overly political
they have enabled THE CONTINUED EXISTENCE OF one
if not the most democratic sector of our society
the public schools.

It was unclear as originally written.

heart of the matter quiz
1. a and themselves
2. a-d
3. a+ sometimes b(assuming no laws are being broken)
4. a-d, starts with the parents but if the parent
doesn't homeschool then its b-d for public schools
and d for private schools
5. a-d

The grading at the end seems to be made up.

These are questions with right or wrong answers.
(For instance if for #2 you only wrote A you are
wrong, now if you were talking about private
schools you might be right, but that is not how
it is worded.)
If the questions were worded with SHOULD in them
then the grading would make more sense.

I believe I went 5 for 5. Anyone care to grade
me.


eyes on the prize and religious lib
You're both right.

There are differences between states, and some
states are mainly controlled by the state DOE, but
the majority are run at the district level.

Some states have one or a set of approved books
but most states leave the choice to the local
districts.

The biggest problem with education schools is
their lack of rigor. If their overly political
they have enabled one if not the most democratic
sector of our society the public schools.

The Heart of the Matter
The heart of the matter is this:

1.To whom do children belong?

A)their parents
B)the state
C)society/taxpayers
D)educational institutions

2.To whom do institutions who educate children give an account?

A)their parents
B)the state
C)society/taxpayers
D)educational institutions

3.To whom do parents give an account of how they raise/teach their children? (Assuming no laws are being broken.)

A)no one
B)the state
C)society/taxpayers
D)educational institutions

4.Who should determine what kind of education a child should have?

A)parents
B)the state
C)society/taxpayers
D)educational institutions

5.Who should pay for or provide the child's education?

A)parents
B)the state
C)society/taxpayers
D)educational institutions

If you picked A) a lot you are likely a Conservative with some Libertarian tendencies. If you picked B) a lot you have some communist and/or totalitarian tendencies. If you picked C) a lot you have socialist tendencies. If you picked D) a lot you are probably employed by the public schools or are on a school board.

Another reply to religiouslib
I have no problem with religious freedom being practiced by Satanists, Wiccans, or Muslims. As long as they do not break the law, I am willing to stomach world views and definitions of absolute truth other than my own.

I personally know a devout Muslim homeschooler (lots of Muslims homeschool, not all of them mix with the rest of the homeschool community)and a practicing witch from an online group in Canada. So what? I have a deep respect for the Constitution and civil law, and none of them that I have met are violating either. I say that as a fundamentalist Christian who is absolutely doctrinally opposed to their religious views, but I stand by their civil rights and would never interfere with their right to practice their faith (including teaching it to their kids.) It's called diversity and tolerance.

As to immigrants (My youngest daughter is one and received her citizenship papers today!) what is important is that they respect the Constitution, abide by civil law, and are taught the history of our country. They managed to assimilate before a "common curriculum experience in school " and they will manage just fine without one now. Living in a free society and enjoying the personal and political freedoms here speaks volumes above what any curriculum can.

Balkanization is a very strong term. You will have to explain to me how the centuries of troubles in the Balkans expressed in "ethnic cleansing" and the like are in some way comparable to law abiding people peacefully practicing their faith with differing world views in a country like ours. Sorry, I just don't see it. I think you're WAY off here.

Reply to religiouslib
For a list of selective colleges that accept homeschoolers go to: http://learninfreedom.org/colleges_4_hmsc.html

I have personally sat and listened to employees of various selective colleges discuss what they are interested in when they evaluate homeschooled students. They want ACT, SAT, CLEP scores, college entrance exam scores and transcripts from community colleges. They will tell you ANY diploma is essentially meaningless because there is such a variation in performance in homeschooled, charter schooled, private schooled, and public schooled students. (Everyone knows it because no one with choices would even consider sending their child to an inner city public school.)

Certification is in no way a guarantor of quality teaching. Standardized test scores of homeschoolers in highly regulated states are not any better than test scores of homeschoolers in completely deregulated states. As to standardized test scores of homeschooled kids they on the whole higher than test scores of public schooled kids in K-12. ACT scores of homeschooled kids are a point or two higher than public schooled kids.

http://www.hslda.org/docs/nche/000010/200410250.asp


Speaking of who's on the School Board
I used to know a guy who bragged about being an avowed Communist. I mean a full-fledged, card-carrying, Commie.

He foisted himself into the school district and started pushing for the most ridiculous policies, such as teaching sex to little children and teaching that drugs weren't dangerous.

In spite of the fact that he had a friend who came close to dying from an O.D. of Extasy, he kept loudly insisting that the stuff was safe.

Somehow the PTA and the Schoolboard were unable to get rid of him.

You see, these activists are so obsessed with making over the world in their sick, twisted image that they will never give up.

This means that we must never rest on our laurels, but be vigilant and keep pushing back against this disease.

Religious Lib violates the 1st amendment
"mountain rose,
i refuse to allow any conservative to talk about family values when some of the staunchest conservatives in this country keep getting outed for one immorality after another."
**************************************

Hey Libbie!

Did you REALLY mean to say you refuse to ALLOW conservatives to talk?

After all the blather you Lefties make about freedom of speech? YOU refuse to ALLOW ME to talk?

I am willing to let you take it back, but somehow I think it is unlikely. I doubt that you will even feel any shame, since Lefties have no shame, only hatred.

You have just tipped your hand, showing the totalitarian impluse of Lefties for all to see.

eyes on the prize
here is proof of this, do textbook salesman go to the state or the local school board to sell their books?

they go to the local school board.

eyes on the prize
your lack of knowledge about school districts is astounding.

the state department of education does not choose curriculum, the local school district does.
that is why you can have a conservative school board choose one type of curriculum and a liberal school board choose another.

everyones facts has it right, local schools are the most democratic institution in america.
local citizens elect the school board and that board is directly responsible to that community.

all decisions are made in public.

everyonesfacts
The state education departments have much more say on curriculum issues than the local district does. In fact there is very little choice left to the locals.

The state education departments, in turn, tend to take their cues from the schools of education, which have been a huge source of politicization of the curriculum, and of dumbing it down for political reasons (often driven by racial politics: the infamous achievement gaps between different groups are more easily cured by gutting the curriculum than by encouraging everyone to strive their hardest.)

Education schools and politicization are much worse than teacher's unions as an influence on the schools. Especially since all the administrators went to those schools and inhaled the politics. I'm sure that very few students are able to graduate with an administrative degree who seriously disagree with the prevailing politics: they would have to spend years faking it. How many people can do that?

public school choice
I'm against vouchers I am for public school choice, including public
charter and pilot school choice.

Of course, this would need approval by individual states and / or
districts.

Public schools might be a monopoly or 50 monopolies and might have
some inkling of communism but they are undoubtedly one of the most
democratic institutions in the US. In most states most of the $ and
decisions are made at the local (district) level, the next biggest influence
is at the state level, and, of course, and unfortunately, there is the
influence at the federal level. In each case you can have influence, a
voice, and vote for or be the person making the decisions.

An inconvenient question
Did Charles Darwin ever say that government indoctrination centers are not the fittest and must be protected by a monopoly in order to survive? http://www.poorgrandchildren.com

homeschool mom
you ask really good questions.

i am an elected school board member and although i do not have the time right now to debate this as thoroughly as i would like i would like to engage you a little.

here in california we had a charter school that was giving out diplomas which turned out to be bogus.
the students spent years in this school and ended up with nothing because they could not pass any basic standardized tests. hence they were not admitted to post secondary institutions.

teaching is an art not a vocation. we have both had good and bad teachers.
obviously parents and administrators should be involved in evaluating teachers and those teachers should meet some kind of certification standards.

as far as home schooling, certainly there has to be some standards so that universities can gauge the educational progress and ability of a student.

your question about secular curriculum is troubling.
do you think muslims, or wiccans or satanists should have no curriculum requirements or be allowed to teach whatever they want?

you are obviously a sincere person but the over-riding need in this country of immigrants is a common cultural experience that, in my humble opinion, comes from a common curriclum experience in school.

we may disagree about what those common cultural experiences and can debate that in public forum but i would maintain that not doing so would cause a balkinazation of american culture.

well that is enough for now.



does that answer your question about the need for monitoring.

Eben
Your ideas are excellent, though not exactly new. Marie Montessori proposed that few students in the 13-17 age bracket were academically inclined and advocated hands on work. As recognition of the value of higher education occurred, plus the mental horsepower to benefit, these "trade" students should be returned to the academic pool.
When my 7th graders say why learn to calculate the area of a geomentric figure, i don't try to snow them. I say you will be evaluated for your ability to learn, and for your maturity and persistance. Most of them get it.

Hard Questions about Vouchers
Let's say vouchers and tax credits happen and state accreditation and standardized testing is required to qualify. There are important questions that desperately need asking.

1. Will private schools be required to use materials with a secular world view to qualify? If not, who will pay the court costs for the lawsuits that will inevitably follow? If the private schools loose the court battle, what legal implications will it have nationwide in all forms of education?

2. Will teacher certification be required? Why or why not? What qualifications will teachers/administrators have to have to qualify? What control will administrators and parents have over poor performing teachers?

3. Will there be requirements for special ed? What required accommodations will there be for children with social, medical, behavioral problems?

4. Which of the many standardized test available will be required, and who will decide? What will be the minimum test score standard required of the students? What will happen if the standards are not met?

5. What entity will monitor the schools and their performances? Will it be a government agency? A private agency? How much will it cost in tax dollars to fund monitoring? Exactly how will they monitor schools?

6. What implications will requirements and monitoring in the private institution sector have in the most private form of education-homeschooling?

(We've had enough tough court battles and we've won our freedom in many states. We are not going to give it up for the rest of you.)

7. Can anyone actually prove increased regulation and monitoring directly affect academic performance for the better? If not, why do it?

Parental Apathy
It's easy in an forum like this to forget that many parents are apathetic to their children's education. This is true in all socioeconomic groups to varying degrees.

Once you open the doors of private education to everyone, there will be additional responsibility on the shoulders of parents. Can you see apathetic parents asking and seeking out answers to the following questions?

1.How many private schools are in my area? What is the difference in the schools I have access to? Have I checked out the educational philosophies, methods, materials, and test scores? Which do I like? Which don't I like?

2.Is there a deadline for registration? How many students can this school take? What if I change my mind about this school mid-term and there are no other openings at my second and third choice schools?

3.Do I care about teacher certification and qualifications? Do I know what certification and qualifications the teachers and administrators have at the schools of my choice?

4.Are the dress codes, world views, disciplinary policies, and social climates acceptable to me? What kinds of participation are required of me as a parent? Does my child have to maintain a certain level of academic performance or social behavior to stay? What if my child is not compliant and has to leave?

5.How will my child get to and from the school? Are the daily and annual schedules compatible with my family's?

Many parents WANT the government to take responsibility for their children, so even if school choice is available to everyone, many parents will choose what requires the least of them-essentially a public school.

Further
I've employed people all of my life. In the process, I learned long ago that most of what people learn - other than the basics - is of little or no value in the work world. This, by the way, is also true of much that is taught in college. So, we train them. Every businessperson will tell you the same. However businesspeople have given up on getting the educational system to be responsive to the work that most people will do for the rest of their lives - regardless of some high and very liberal ideal of classical education. But, I guess we shouldn't be too disappointed, the educational elite don't listen to their customers - the students, either. After all. They're adults, and children are not capable of having input into something so sophisticated as education - or so we tell them.

So, we force feed chemistry, biology, Algebra II, Calculus, English Lit and the like. But that's ok, big brother has decided that we need more engineers, and even though it doesn't get them, it will guarantee to make everyone's life miserable just to make it's point.

Eben
Great post! Not a lot of people are willing to admit that school (even high school) isn't for everybody!

I've said that about college for years. People want to know why the cost of college has gotten so high. In my opinion, it's about supply and demand. I think many colleges and universities are trying to curtail demand through tuition increases, but thanks to gov't interference it's not working.

A lot of high school grads have no interest or desire to be there but go because that's what they've been told they MUST do. The only way to get a good job is to go to college! BULL! I know a lot of people that do pretty darn well without a degree. There's also a high percentage that have no business being there based on their academic achievement. And that's ok....again college (school) isn't for everyone. I'm not talking about being educated here, I'm talking about formal school.

Thanks again Eben. I thought I was alone.


criticizing, Bess2728
does not entail "you are a bigger fool than you let on. "

nor does it entail "So, instead of just crying - oh..."

Any time a credit or a voucher subtracts money from the tax base the rest of us have to make it up with increased taxes.

And once we let the government determine worthy or appropriate schools the formerly 'private' schools' will be dumbed down to the lowest possible standard.



Homeschool Mom has excellent points - especially #7 for a starter.

Basics, cont.
Our problem is that we have created a high school for the 20%, yet force the 80% to participate. If you want to reform it, create a basic competency test in the three "R's" that reflects what the 80% will likely use. Test them every year. Once it is reached, then give them and their parents the option to leave - and then eliminate the work place restrictions that currently trap them in high school. Work, after all, was the high school of my parents and their parents generation - and they did very well - thank you.

It's called choice. If you believe in choice - then give it where it counts, and stop tarring young people who would rather work, than sit in classrooms whose purpose does not match their own.

Basics
Historically, education was the parents decision. You went to school, but if the crops needed to be harvested, you simply went home until they were in. Payment was made by the parents. The basis for education was to teach people to read, write, do sums, and learn some basic history. Taxes were less, meaning that they were left in the hands of the taxpayer. The standards of quality were set by the parents or the local school board if there was one. Quality, in turn, was based on basic competence in the three "R's". 8 grades of education, were determined to be enough to function effectively. As far as if there would be enough room in the private sector, the practical fact is that the private sector is a past master at finding a need and filling it - and doing so very rapidly. The basis of capitalism after all is filling the demand.

The reason we have complexity is that HS is an experiment in classical education that was tacked on to the previous public school system. It has not, however, substantially improved the education of 80% of the students (1 of 5 don't finish, and only 1 of 4 who do got to college). The practical fact is that once people leave school, they tend to regress due to lack of practice, so that most of this 80% reads at the 7th grade level - as any newspaper can tell you. Math also falls back to the basics of addition, subtraction, multiplication and division, as these people (as well as many college students) never use higher math in any form for any reason - so they forget it. In sum, they got the same thing in 8 grades that we try to justify in 12.


Proceed With Extreme Caution
Legislation has consequences, and it is VERY important to think very carefully about both the intended and unintended consequences that vouchers and tax credits have on personal freedom.

Our homeschool lobby in AZ has never supported proposed tax credit legislation because so far, tax credits ALWAYS come with strings attached. Read a more detailed explanation at: http://www.afhe.org/news_2005_04_01_sb1493.htm

I'm all for expanding choice, but I think there are deeper questions we need to ask before we proceed with legislation.

1. Whose job is it to educate a child?
2. Whose is responsible for paying for a child's education? What about the children of the poor?
3. What characterizes a quality education?
4. Should taxes be reduced by keeping more of it in the first place,or returned by getting get a portion back?
5. Who should determine the standards of quality?
6. How can quality be measured, compared, and disclosed?
7. Will there be enough room in the private sector for the children fleeing the public monopoly? If not, who decides who goes and who stays?

of, marie
No, this was you orginally said "Simply abolish all public schools, cut property taxes proportionately - then the users of the schools can pick the best."

I was simply saying that it's a pretty thought - but not really based on anything that could or would happen in anytime soon.

Instead of just spouting ideology, what I offered up was a riff off of the article's content (vouchers in Utah). And decided to use your riff on the Ï don't want the gov't taking my money."

I listen quite patiently and quietly most of the time to all the varying opinions at TH. Every now and then I like to assert my own opinion - and guess, what I can critize anyone's that like - just as others criticize mine.

How's this - I won't use ÿour money, and you don't use mine - and we'll call it even.




Bess2728 foolish me - you are wanting
additional subsidizing and I have the nerve to disagree with that. Seems like I'd be a bigger fool for not protesting this.
I wasn't crying, I was stating that you and yours have no 'right' to my money. Seems like we tell that to welfare moms all the time.

My point originally was simply get the Gov. out of the business of re-distributing what is our money.
Apparently you are only outraged by those who oppose your version of the proper distribution.




Marie
your taxes already subsidize a whole lot of things for me and for everyone else - like it or not. And like it or not, getting rid of public schools and the taxes that accompany them at best will not be easy, and frankly, as much as I don't like it - will not happen.

So, instead of just crying - oh - the gov't shouldn't take our money - it just shouldn't - that's so wrong - I put forth a few options that are more based in reality. Since you don't like the gov't taking your money from you, why don't you skip paying the taxes. Oops - that's illegal and not an option either.

Now - I never said anyone *deserves* tax deductions or credits - heck - you don't deserve any tax deductions or credits. But, I bet dollars to donuts that you do take whatever break the IRS codes allow. If you don't you are a bigger fool than you let on.

Now - vouchers - yes, in theory, 3 million muslims could take that $$ and send their kids to madrassas - but then again, 5 million Catholics could also take that money and send them to Catholics schools - oh no, the Papists are taking over! OR Another 5 million Protestants could send their kids to their type of schools .... same as athesists, secular humanists (oh wait, they send theirs to the public schools now) etc

Ultimately any decision about education will not happen overnight - and since these changes come about by our elected officials - it will be alow in coming - and like it or not, the changes, if made, will have to somewhat try to take everyone into consideration.

Ugh. That was long, and I am feeling cranky. But that seems to be the norm around here anyway.





doc
just as some conservatives are pro-choice, some liberals are pro-life (like myself)

i am only responding to the concept that conservatives believe in family values and liberals do not.

that is just not true.
vitter is not gay but has been involved in extra-marital affairs.

by the way there is no plank in the democrat party that supports gay marriage.
not one dem presidential contender has come out for it.


i believe in family values as much as any american so to try to define which party does or doesn't support family values is no longer possible.

doc
you make a valid point but i don't want to fund it do you?

besides in a mosque we can monitor it but it is much more difficult in a school to put someone undercover so to speak.

Doc
Good counter point to religiouslib. If someone wants to harm us, they'll figure out a way to preach their hate is some kind of forum.

ps to religiouslib
It is my understanding that Muslims are taught in their own mosque anyway. I could be wrong, but they are already in a private school anyways if this is true. And I almost bet the clerics don't want a liberal or conservatives teaching their children!

religious lib
Not a bad point you make about vouchers and a potential unintended consequence. And that's saying something because I almost never agree with you.....

religiouslib
I refuse to allow any liberal talk about any who are outed as gay and I don't care what religion or political affiliation they are. For liberals who believe in choice, gay marriage, or anything else along those lines have no right to cast stones or say anything about any with poor moral character! Liberals do believe in choice right? And if you believe in God in ANY form, you know you should leave the judging up to him! i don't judge any for what they are, i just think that is between you and God when you get there!

vouchers
will turn this country into an islamic state.

do conservatives understand that if muslims are allowed to set up their own schools with vouchers than the 3 million muslim children will be mandated to attend these schools by the clerics of their mosques and will be taught that democracy and capitalism are the root of all evil.

cutting off your nose to spite your face is absurd.


mountain rose,

i refuse to allow any conservative to talk about family values when some of the staunchest conservatives in this country keep getting outed for one immorality after another.

Taking American Institutions Back
I worked for years at a major entertainment corporation, and watched helplessly as Leftist MBAs moved in, helped each other to get hired and promoted (in spite of their lack of talent and qualifications), and take over creative control of the company.

The obviously had contempt for the family values that were the *EAR*mark of this particular company, and it was a mystery to me why they wanted to work there.

But over time, it has become clear that this is part of the activist Left's commitment to take control of American institutions and use them to promote their cause.

This is why the entertainment industry does not seem to care that they are losing their audience. They will use each company up for all the propaganda power they can get out of it, and discard it like a spider leaving the empty hull of an insect it just sucked the life out of.

The Left in the instutions of Education, Entertainment, Science, the Courts, etc, remind me of a guy who stole a bulldozer in order to mow down the house of his ex-wife. He didn't care if he destroyed the bulldozer in the process, as long as he could use it for his nefarious purpose.

this is so strange,
why does anyone deserve either a credit or a voucher? You have a choice, pay additional for a private school or use the one we've all had to pay for.

Bess2728 - today you can deduct tools necessary for your job, not just teachers. Why should I subsidize your kids' crayons? how about their shoes?

Stating that privatizing schools will never happen simply ensures that it won't.

Phase Out Public Schools?
I appreciate your sentiment, StrivingForSense, but I for one am tired of the conservatives fleeing, instead of standing their ground and fighting.

So what if the schools have been taken over by the Left?

I say, "TAKE THEM BACK!!!"

We keep abandoning entire institutions to the Left, and they end up with all the power and public funding.

Ground Up
In the 50's, we went to local schools controlled and paid for by local parents. The unions had little power, and the federal government was not involved in any way. In fact, my brothers started out in a 4 room school that only changed when the parents decided to get busses so that everyone went to town. I've raised two boys in the current system. After the first lost interest in what was considered one of the "best" systems in California, I jerked the younger one out of the public system after the 8th grade and sent him to a private school. He moved immediately onto college, and will finish a 5 year program this year. The older one was so discouraged with education in general, that it took four years out before he - of his own choice - went back to a junior college for two years to learn what he had not learned the first time. It began to unravel in the 60's. The supreme court and the politically correct decided that students rights trumped education - so that clothing, hair style, in-class discipline etc., could not be regulated in any meaningful way. Teachers began to lose control of the classroom,as the court began increasingly to side with the view that education was a right - not a privilege. Endless rules then appeared as to when and for what one could kick someone out of school for a few days, let alone permanently. As the court inserted its judgement into the local schools, the federal government followed, dictating, among other things, the curricula, and parents, voluntarily or otherwise were forced to cede control - meaning involvement. Now, we have the mess we've created.

And we need to rethink it from the ground up. It has failed - this modern experiment. If it were a business, we'd bankrupt it.

Phase out public schools.
A quick abolishment of public schools may be what's needed most, but it won't fly. However, we might be able to use the vouchers or tax credits as a means of phasing out the public schools over a five or ten year period.

It's time the teachers realized that the children, and their parents, are the customers, and start offering a quality product. Private schools thrive, just as any business does, by offering customers a quality product, along with good service.

I think we should sell the public schools to the private sector, on an "as is" basis. Those schools that are already well-run will continue to grow and thrive. Those that are "fixer-uppers" will be fixed up by their owners.

As for the teacher's union, there's no reason why they couldn't use those union dues to buy schools, and allow the teacher/stock-holders to continue to teach as they see fit. I'm sure they'll find customer children among people who share those ideas.

With the property taxes reduced or eliminated, most parents would be able to afford private schooling. For those who cannot, charities would inevitably spring up. Liberals feel that they have to FORCE "charity," but the truth is (and reports have proven it) that charity is much more prolific when it is just that - CHARITY, voluntary, unforced, and given from the goodness of the giver's heart. Without the force of government interference, there would be plenty of people who would gladly donate to a charity school. And knowing that there is no government "safety net" would only encourage them to give more. And cheerfully, at that.

Taxes, in general, are a bad idea. They are necessary to support BASIC government, as well as public defense. However, beyond that, there's no real need for it, and it's all pork.

On that note, let's move to the Fair Tax.

Sure
I would much rather not have the gov't take my money for education (or a whole host of other things as well) ; however, not paying taxes for education will just never happen in our lifetimes.

So, the question is - how to make things more bearable. Vouchers and tax credits are two possible solutions that are even in the realm of reality.

Right now teachers can get tax deductions on what they spend for school supplies out of their own pockets. I would like to see that expanded for everyone - even public school parents in this day and age are made to purchase pens, pencils, glue sticks, crayons, paper etc for their children to use at school. That ought to be a deduction. Homeschoolers pay for everything out of pocket - every book, workbook, pen, pencil, crayon, paper. Should be deductible.

baseballdoc
what surprises me is the conservative support for vouchers.
Its a trick, it sounds fair, give you back your own money. Yet, if the Gov. never takes the money in the first place they can't tell you how to spend it.

Liberal Union Crybabies
If Utah gets its way, The Liberals will HOWL! Liberals are pervasive at ALL LEVELS of education and are THE SOLE REASON that education in America is in such a sorry state.

P.S. Warren Mosquitobrain has gotten stupider as the week has passed.

MARIE

.....I see that you have a clear understanding of the basic problem ...as long as the government is involved in education and uses its power to tax us for it ...then we are just serfs to a government master .....COLOSSUS

Doc
I'm not sure about the system your kids are in. That's sounds like a tough deal and a poster child for school choice.

Ironically my wife used to teach in a system in GA, where only 50% of the parents would show for conferences. One reason was that it was Mom's "me day" and she had to go to the spa and just couldn't make it. True story.

There is definitely some shared responsibility here. Our nanny state education system has conditioned many parents to not be involved in their own kids education or expects the teachers to raise their kids. This along with the bureaucracy that runs the system consistently runs off good teachers that bust their butts for their students. Well, that and the fact that the teachers that are in it for the summer vacation can expect to be paid the same as the teacher that goes above and beyond. The slotted pay scale is a great system too! NOT!

let's see - the Government first
takes your money then gives it back if you pick a Government approved school. This should guarantee absolute and complete control over all education in America - seems the fastest way to stamp out any hint of excellence in private schools.

Simply abolish all public schools, cut property taxes proportionately - then the users of the schools can pick the best.

Hey! Kodiak! Not all New Englanders
are liberal! I resent that! you could have just said "liberals" leaving region out of it!

~ signed a proud New England yankee who is not a liberal

Scared blind
The three principles that have made America the economic colossus it is today have been personal freedom, individual accountability, and an unmatched talent for innovation. Utahans are focusing all of those things on public education within their state, and it has the teachers' unions so terrified they are dumping political campaign money in there like it was California, Texas, or New York. There must be a reason for that -- could it be they fear that the smallest crack in the dam will cause a flood of reform? That would be my guess. From what I know of Utahans, the legislation has a real chance: The Latter-day Saints hold both freedom of choice and personal accountability near and dear to their hearts, that and the Westerner's innate rebellious streak against whatever New England liberals tell them to do might just carry the day.

VOUCHERS ARE A BAND AID FIX

.....The problem with vouchers are that they treat the symptons of the disease without providing the cure ...

.....As long as schools are run by government and controlled by unions ...the disease will never be cured ...only a lucky few will benefit at the expense of the less fortunate ...

.....The cure is to ban all teachers unions and return schools to the private sector ...

....."Free" Public education run by the government and paid for with taxes is a Communist idea conceived of by Karl Marx and is a tenet of the Communist Manifesto ...

.....Government run schools should have no place in a free market economy based on the principles of capitalism .....COLOSSUS

choice
Boy oh boy, this would be welcome news here in Indiana! I have fought and fought with my daughter’s public school here to no avail. I ask for a meeting with ALL her teachers and not even 50% of them show up. When I complain I am told teachers do have a life outside school, so I reply maybe if they actually stayed at school 8 hours on any given day we could meet and figure out why her grades were dropping. No go.
I have never had a job where I could show up at 7:20 and leave at 2:30 and they wonder why parents want a choice. Indpls has a high rate for high school dropouts and I wonder if it’s because they are worried about how the kids dress and less about their grades? No wonder why residents of Marion County just had a property tax increase of from 5% up to 200%? Well at least the kids are dressed nice!

The public school
system is broken because it is an unaccountable monopoly, and moreover is controlled by foolish people with agendas differing from seeing every child gets the best possible education. The solution is parent choice, and school control at the principal level. Govt evaluation and testing is not needed. Govt testing tends to be tarnished by political correctness at best, and the usual govt incompetence and lack of accountability at best. Education and student evaluation tests have been around for 100 years. Good schools will quickly advertise their students performance on standardized tests. Another huge key would be the schools ability to refuse a student and the accompanying money if the student is disruptive. Few laymen realize the impact a very few deliberately disruptive students can have under existing practices. This nation existed for many years without truancy laws. If they are considered useful, a role for govt in schooling could be considered for "students" so disruptive no school would have them at any price. Meanwhile, schools would compete with student performance at every level of scholarship for the money available. With decisions made at the principal level, the huge expensive bureaucracy would disappear, and results rather than PC theories and unaccountable empire builders would hold sway.

Like Dracula confronted with a cross,
the Left are howling in their typical hysterical manner over the prospect that the PEOPLE may have real choices.

Of course, the moniker "pro-choice" that the Leftie Losers bestow upon themselves is yet another misrepresentation.

They don't want YOU to have a choice to send your children elsewhere, and they especially don't want you raising and educating your own children.

They have devoted their lives to taking over the public education system and turn it into a Marxist Brainwashing Factory.

This is why is is essential that we work hard to take back our culture, and our national institutions.

But in the meantime, we have to support each other in our efforts to be free of the tenticles of Leftie organizations like the NEA.

Pro-kids parents.

Finally, finally... maybe.

Doesn't America yet know... that the teacher's unions are harmful to their children's health and well-being???

But how many parents will care enough?

That's right. How many will actually care enough... enough to make a real difference in their children's lives? I wonder.

Go parents... and stay tuned.

Eyes on the prize
Great point. I had thought about that, but I thought I was missing something there. It does seem to cut out the middle class.

It reminds me of when I went to college and applied for student loans. Apparently my Dad made "too much money" as a sprinkler fitter (mind you it was about $50k/year then) and I qualified for little or no aid. My folks dipped into an IRA and took out an equity loan to get me through. Let's just say that delayed retirement just a bit.

Something tells me one would have to be very poor to "qualify" for this Utah program. Middle class folks would probably be better off taking a lower paying job to get the benefits of such a program. I don't know that for a fact, but there's always a hitch when it come to gov't intervention.

Unconstitutional
At the Federal level, government monopoly indoctrination centers are unconstitutional (Amendment 10). However, the Supremes probably learned reading and political correctness at those centers and decided 5-4 to change our Constitution, all in our best interests, of course. http://www.poorgrandchildren.com

elong LOL
I agree the tax break *ought* to be bigger than $500 - I was using that number because it was the lowest amount Utah will give for a voucher.



"Non-gov't schools must meet rigid..."
That is all it takes to destroy the potential value of the voucher system. Once the government sets all of the one-size-angers-all rules, parental choice is eliminated, and we are back to the government monopoly on the indoctrination of our children. http://www.poorgrandchildren.com

what about middle class kids
This program seems tailored to discriminate against middle class families, especially those with several children. They still pay high local school taxes, but don't get much back economically: they are stuck either paying out of pocket for school choice or staying in the public schools.

Essentially, this extends to K-12 exactly the system we already have in colleges: middle class families pay while the poor get free education. And if you have multiple kids, it really hurts.

Of course, middle class minority kids have access to race based scholarships at private schools. So again it is precisely the middle class whites who are left out of the system. Today's "invisible man".

So it seems Blackwell endorses yet another extension of the previous outcomes of "civil rights" movements: more discrimination against middle class whites.

Guess what, Ken. Suburban public schools suck too. We need a solution that will help all our kids get a better education, if we want to really compete in the world economy. And leaving out middle class whites leaves out a large group who could contribute substantially to our future success.

Bess2728
Wait a second Bess, you can't be serious. You mean you want cash back if you're not using the service that you're being taxed for? Don't you know that those taxes are an "investment in our future." How can you be so selfish? It's not your money, it's the gov't's money. You need to brush up on your Government Seizure of Funds 101 handbook.

Actually, I wholeheartedly agree with you. It's ridiculous. If you don't have school aged children, you should probably get a bigger break than $500. I hate it for seniors that have paid those taxes for 20-25 years after their kids were done with school.

I'm with you Duke
I as well prefer a tax credit over a voucher. That would keep the gov't out of private schools, still allow folks to use the public ones if they want to, and be of benefit to those of us who homeschool.

I'm also for allowing a tax credit to those folks who do not have school age children and have no use for public schools. Why can't they get back $500 of their tax dollars?

While Utah's voucher program has problems, I do hope they succeed. It's the first major step in the direction of school choice.


Deskjockey
Excellant point that I don't think a lot of people will think of as an unintended consequence of this voucher program.

They just swiped control from the private school system. The control that theoretically has led to higher test scores.

My perspective on this is a bit different. My wife is a teacher and we disagree on an array of issues (thankfully she is not a big fan of the unions including the NEA) when it comes to education. The one thing we can agree on, however, is that both school systems that she has worked for are the worst run organizations that I have ever heard tale of!

We want to hold teachers accountable but no one wants to look at the wasteful bureaucracies that most Boards of Ed are. It is ridiculous. They keep raising property taxes because they "don't have enough money", but nothing EVER changes.

The BOA's continue to waste our money on everything BUT educating our kids.

Homeschoolers
I have advocate the use of tax credits instead of vouchers for teaching our children to be thinking productive adults. This way, it would benefit all taxpaying parents in the learning process of our most precious citizens.

Ron Paul
Although I believe Ron is among our most lucid of candidates he has lost it on education. In the past he proposed legislation that teachers should pay no taxes. This is beyond comment. Could you see the millions of teachers who would have to pay no taxes campaigning for every tax increase possible as they do now, except with jihad fervor now that they pay zero. Ron will do this occasionally with proposed legislation where he calls for expanding the power of giver-ment where it don't belong.

Another good one was his speech properly demonizing the war time tax deduction for corporate health care. His solution after demonizing the evils of this was to recommend that we expand the programs of giver-ment tax deductions into small companies and self employed. DUH?

I don’t care how sound you are when you go to DC, you start drinking that Potomac water and run in those circles, your brain will be destroyed. Anyway, I suspect Paul will run as the Constitution Party or Libertarian Party candidate and unite those parties for his support and I will vote for him as the lesser of 3 evils.

Spread indoctrination to private skuls
He said, “Non-government schools must meet rigid state standards to participate.” This is the trap that will now destroy all education. The courts have ruled consistently that if you take giver-ment money you must dance to their tune.

The reason we need vouchers is that there remains a segment of skuls (sic) capable of providing critical thinking rather than state indoctrination. This plan will expand outcome based education where we teach to the test. The values of the test become the education. He says, “Non-government schools must meet rigid standards to participate. The schools must give students nationally approved achievement tests.”

The best answer is to keep the giver-ment out of any more skuls and let the giver-ment skuls remain k-12 indoctrination camps. As more parents home school or put kids in private schools the giver-ment skuls will then serve only those wanting to indoctrinate their children with left wing radical Marxism at tax payer expense. And certainly they deserve taxpayer paid ed out of respect to Marx.

Vouchers for every parent...
It can be a reality with Congressman Ron Paul's presidency. He has proposed a tax credit to each student as well as a smaller tax credit for each teacher. He also recommends local community-supported "scholarships." Finally, he will abandon the Department of Education, guaranteeing that public education is a state and local issue, and keeping the Feds out of it.

Consider a man with the FRESH IDEAS...Consider Ron Paul!

http://www.ronpaul2008.com

Hooray Utah
Excellent article! I don't have any children in school but if I did, I would back the Utah model. I hope Utah voters can find a Presidential candidate supportive of these efforts rather than one who is in bed with the teachers union and who will attempt to derail it. I'm sure there are many who are afraid that if it works in Utah, other states are going to want it, too. I hope Utah gathers as many statistics as it can so that before and after results can be compared.

Warren Small
You're right on so many points...if there's any way the deadbeats can get away from their neighborhoods they will and they'll figure out a way to scam the voucher money in the process. I hate it that the few that don't belong there have to stay there but they have to figure out how to get out...there are ways. But most of them need to stay right where they are and keep out of our neighborhood schools that we've worked so hard to get to. Ever since they've integrated the schools the goal has been to make them "equal" so instead of bringing them up to the standards that we had them at at that point they dragged them down to what the minorities were used to and demanded. Now the schools are equal...equally bad.

Warren Small, are you serious?
Warren Small writes:
Thursday, September, 13, 2007 4:24 AM
Vouchers are a snare and delusion

For the past 40 years Liberals have been gutting the education system. Liberals are sailing America down the Mississippi river to be dumped into the gulf of Mexico. Liberals have compromised the education system, and when I graduated from High School in 1959 I did not need to pass in English. I regret that but I am making up for it now.

Your opinion is disappointing to say the least. Do you self a favor and don't make yourself look so shallow and lacking integrity or intelligence.

Good for Utah, Great artical.

Johnny/Joannie can't read but can txt
can't find the USA on a map, unless they use google.
can't do advanced math, heck quite a few can't give change for a purchase.
Most can't speak English correctly. Not even Americanborn of Americanborn parents let alone illegal aliens.
They have no idea who the 'forefathers' were or why the Civil War was fought. But most can tell you what foreskin is.

All curtesy of the local/state/federal education system. Where the taxdollars go in the 'money pit' of education.

Hurrah for Utah and may God bless you. And children, that is NOT a curse.

Gert rid of government schools PERIOD
Nothing in the Constitution about requiring government education of citizens nor is education a 'right'. Private schools do a better job for half the price of government schools, and without liberal indoctrination.

The "voucher" system benefits government schools by legitimizing them. I says tear 'em down or sell them to private schools.

Mr Blackwell Pt2
They did a survey a while back for state schools and found that students who go to private schools do much better on the ACT and SAT than their public school counterparts and have a higher exceptance rate to Prime schools I.e. service academies Ivy League Schools. In fact starting last year seniors in High are required to pass a competency exam (2 tests reading and writing and math and science) to recieve their diploma. This past year a little more than 25% of high schools failed 1 or both tests. They recieved a certificate instead of a diploma. It was big news here.
Thanks for the great article. I really enjoy reading your columns and this one was one of your best.

Mr. Blackwell Pt1
Great article..I live in utah and the local rags that I read (The Ogden Standard Examiner and the Salt Lake Tribune) are both vehemntly against the vouchers. Most of commentaries by other people are solidly against it. We received a brochure in the mail today from the Pro voucher group. My wife read it and said we have to vote this in November.
The big problem we have here is that this state spends one of the the lowest per captia (were either 49th or 50th) for education despite the fact that every year almost half the state budget goes to education. We have the highest birthrate in the country and the most kids per household. The student teacher ratio is something like 31 to 1.
Right now my son goes to a private catholic school where the student teacher ratio is 15 to 1
Under the program, we would be eligible for $500 which 1/4 of the tuition but with parental involvelment points it is reduced.

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