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Sunday, April 26, 2009
Kathleen Parker :: Townhall.com Columnist
Torture By Any Other Name
by Kathleen Parker
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WASHINGTON -- Several years ago, I asked a veteran journalist for advice.

"I'm trying to figure out if I have an ethical conflict," I began.

"If you have to ask, you do," he said.

Simple as that. In posing a question, we often reveal the answer.

Apply the same construct to torture. If we have to ask, it probably is.

Yet, as we've learned with the recent release of Justice Department memos related to interrogation techniques, Bush administration lawyers tortured the English language trying to justify the unjustifiable.

"Enhanced interrogation" wasn't really torture, they decided, as long as the pain administered didn't result in "death, organ failure, or serious impairment of bodily functions."

By that definition, waterboarding -- the simulated drowning technique favored by Inquisitors ferreting out heretics -- wasn't torture. People might feel like they were going to die, but they weren't really, and so ...

In other now-familiar mutations, those held in custody weren't really prisoners, but "detainees" or "alien combatants," and therefore not entitled to humane treatment under the Geneva Conventions.

Granted, it is easy now to sit back and judge these definitions and memos as morally repugnant. It is less easy to place ourselves in the mindset that dominated the nation immediately after 9/11 and that guided the Bush administration in trying to prevent future attacks.

But we are also reminded that those who objected most strenuously to relaxed definitions of torture and the scrapping of due process even for "alien combatants" were among those most familiar with war and interrogation, including Sen. John McCain and then-Secretary of State Colin Powell. While lawyers sought loopholes, our most admired warriors argued for protection of the laws of war.

Few have put it more clearly than South Carolina Sen. Lindsey Graham, who is also an Air Force colonel and senior instructor at the Air Force JAG School and has served tours of duty in Iraq and Afghanistan. In a 2006 Newsweek interview, Graham said: "Either we're going to use torture or we're not. And when you say, we won't use torture, unless we think we really, really need it (then) we're not a rule-of-law nation."

It comes down to that. We're either a rule-of-law nation -- or we're not. We can't invent definitions of torture for one type of person that wouldn't be acceptable for another, no matter how much we may despise or distrust him. As Graham put it: "I don't love the terrorists, I just love what Americans stand for."

Meanwhile, how trustworthy are the confessions of the tortured? Not very, according to those who know.

Most important, we can hardly present ourselves as arbiters and protectors of human rights when we selectively abuse those in our custody, no matter how compelling our cause. When we parse definitions of "mental pain" and "suffering," we begin to slip down the slope of moral ambiguity where deceit finds company among the dead.

The lawyers who wrote these now-public opinions clearly were looking for ways out of a moral quandary -- how to square the means with the end. And doubtless many Americans agree that protecting the U.S. against terrorist attacks justified nearly any method.

Almost daily I receive a recycled 2002 quote by Harvard law professor Alan Dershowitz, who argued in a "60 Minutes" interview that most people would justify torture under certain circumstances:

"Is there anybody who wouldn't use torture to save the life of his child? And if you would, isn't it a bit selfish to say, 'It's OK to save my child's life, but it's not OK to save the life of 1,000 strangers?' That's the way people will think about it."

In his book "Shouting Fire: Civil Liberties in a Turbulent Age," Dershowitz proposes that since torture is a given under those certain circumstances, then "torture warrants" should be issued by a judge.

He is right that most of us would do whatever necessary to save our child, possibly even torture a kidnapper. Likewise, if we stumbled upon someone trying to harm a loved one, we would kill the attacker if necessary to stop him.

But those are both darkly impassioned environments. It is by the cool light of day that we devise our laws. And it is by that same light that we judge our actions.

When we ask if something is torture, the answer is another question: What kind of people should we be?

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About The Author
Kathleen Parker is a syndicated columnist with the Washington Post Writers Group.
 
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camanintx writes:
He is responsible for the deaths of almost 3,000 American citizens, which is a criminal offense but he probably cannot be tried in court since just about all of the evidence against him would be inadmissible. So what exactly do you suggest we do once we are finished interrogating him?

He IS the responsibility of the military. That is why he would be tried in a military tribunal.
This was set up following our capturing of terrorists with no country affiliation!

BK, Reply # 404
"NO, Pakistan would have to request him to be extradited as a citizen of their country. WE could deport him if we saw fit!

Don't think that they were going to do that."
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If we cannot return him to Pakistan then I guess that means he's our problem. Since he is not from a country that we are at war with then he really isn't the military's problem either, is he?

He is responsible for the deaths of almost 3,000 American citizens, which is a criminal offense but he probably cannot be tried in court since just about all of the evidence against him would be inadmissible. So what exactly do you suggest we do once we are finished interrogating him?

camanintx writes:
Are you really saying that if KSM requested extradition back to Pakistan then you would send him there?

NO, Pakistan would have to request him to be extradited as a citizen of their country. WE could deport him if we saw fit!

Don't think that they were going to do that.

BK, Reply # 402
"If it is a foreign country, they have a right to be extridicted back to their homeland."
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Are you really saying that if KSM requested extradition back to Pakistan then you would send him there?

camanintx writes:
You do agree that we are a nation of laws, don't you?

Yes we are a nation of laws. Unfortunately or fortunately, terrorists don't get to benefit by our laws...they not covered!

If it is a foreign country, they have a right to be extridicted back to their homeland. If they are with an army representing a country that we are at war with, they are entitled to be covered under the guidelines of the Geneva Convention.

Since these terrorists are not with any army representing any country...they are basically SOL!

Graham
Using L. Graham who spent today defending Arlen (the turn coat) Specter to hold up your end of the argument is not very impressive. People who pratice asymetrical warfare without uniforms on are not entitled to any standard that a uniformed person would receive in a declared War.

marcmat, Reply # 379
"Let's assume for the sake of argument everything you say is true. Is not having him "confirm" an intended target of a terrorist group "valuable" intelligence? And if indeed the information he gave was truthful and corroborative, then guess what: WATERBOARDING WORKS!"
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If all you are interested in is confirming that which you already know, then you just might have an argument that waterboarding works. But if you ever want to use this information in a court of law, you have some serious problems to overcome, like Oregon v. Elstad. You do agree that we are a nation of laws, don't you?

Your an IDIOT KP
It is your's and your liberal (marxist) friends torture of the English language that is abominable. Whether with the Constitution or the Geneva Conventions (as well as almost any document), your misreading and/or misinterpreting the documents is disgusting.

FWIW, as a member of the military (special ops, disable, retired), I am well versed in the Constitution, Geneva Conventions, etc. as well as interrogations (both giving and receiving).

Please point out to me, where in the Geneva Conventions, the detainees are to be treated as POWs? I can point out to you where they can be detained and even the possibility of execution. Also, have you heard of SERE? They train military personnel on Geneva Convention, resisting interrogation, escape and evasion, etc. Perhaps you should actually read the documents before spewing you male bovine excrement.

Slacker wites:
This is what gave the surge a chance to win, not the abuse of our prisoners.

I don't believe so. It is not like Americans were torturing everyone they came in contact with. There was a situation where a young captain had a prisoner and knew that he had info that would protect his troops. He drew his weapon and held it to the prisoners head and suggested that he would shoot him. The prisoner gave up the info and he saved alot of his own men.

Torture?

He was tried and acquitted.

Somehow this discussion has led people to say that all that Americans did or do was torture. Not so...only when required.

BK
I disagree with you.

One of the keys to the strategy that Petraeus and Odierno used to finally turn the corner in Iraq was the recognition that the we had to treat the Iraqi's - including our prisoners - properly. This didn't mean we "coddled" them, but it meant an end to abuse in prisons and that we treated even those who had fought against us with respect. The Iraqis gradually began to understand that there was a difference - an important one - between Americans and the extremists and began giving our troops the information they needed to identify the enemy and turn the tide in the war.

This is what gave the surge a chance to win, not the abuse of our prisoners.

Petraeus and Odierno did not choose this strategy because they were wimps and cowards and wanted to coddle the enemy. They chose it because it works far better than the strategy Rumsfeld and Bush were pushing from the top down for years - and you seem to be pushing still. And they wanted to win.

Slacker writes:
In the end, if when opposing terrorists we adopt their tactics we have accepted and incorporated their evil into our souls. The enemy then has won. No matter what happens on the battlefield the people we are fighting to protect will see little difference between us and them and in winning the battle we will have lost the war.

I disagree. First and foremost, The American people want to be safe and their families to be safe. The American people are smart enough to know that when we use such tactics it never becomes the norm.

This is not a country we fight..these are not soldiers. We cannot win this war or survive as a people unless we free our military to use everything at it's disposal to achieve their goal. The American people were not happy about so many people losing thier lives when we dropped the A-bomb on Japan but they were greatful that they were safe as were their families. They believe, as they should, that we know the difference when it counts!

St. Denis a/k/a Denise and others
You said, "I would prefer a terrorist to be "tortured" for you and any American if such prevents a terrorist attack."

The key word in that statement is the word "IF".

You can never be sure that it has prevented an attack. Cheney and others claim this is the case, but no evidence has been presented. I am all in favor of releasing such evidence into the public domain if it exists, but I doubt this will be the case. I will bet dollars to donuts that any such evidence will once released will be met immediately by credible opposing evidence that the same or BETTER information was obtained by conventional interrogation techniques.

This was exactly the case in the hunt for Saddam. The most high value terrorist captured through interrogating prisoners was Saddam. And this was accomplished WITHOUT using torture but through conventional means by skilled interrogators.

Remember, the Israeli's who are arguably under even greater attack from extremists than we are, have said they gave up on torturing their prisoners because they learned it does NOT work.

In the end, sadly, the logical and legal arguments over whether it works or not will never persuade anyone to change sides. It all comes down to what YOU are as a human being when you form your opinion on this topic.

There is something incredibly important that is missing from the minds and souls of those who justify torture as a means to an end. What is missing is the essence that separates us from the sadists, psychopaths and religious extremists in the world we are fighting.

In the end, if when opposing terrorists we adopt their tactics we have accepted and incorporated their evil into our souls. The enemy then has won. No matter what happens on the battlefield the people we are fighting to protect will see little difference between us and them and in winning the battle we will have lost the war.

Hal writes
longwindedly and say:

well...Nothing! He has lied about everything and refused to answer the simplist question. He denys torture of ripping arms and legs off a late term abortion, he is against captial punishment even though victims families suffer and he favors pedophiles.

I guess Hal is just a piece of trash as evidenced by his responses!

Of course I'm being redundant!

Hal & inthemajority
I love you both as human beings.

I detest your political views.

I want you to have the best of health.

I want you to be wealthy.

I want you to speak freely.

I would rather have by fingernails ripped out if it would spare your lives.

I would prefer a terrorist to be "tortured" for you and any American if such prevents a terrorist attack.

I would love for all "top secret documents" going back to George Washington, if one American could be saved.

I support the freedom of speech, press, and religion.

I support civil unions.

And, I adore the 2nd Amendment.

slacker
"Date: Apr 27, 2009 - 9:26 PM EST
Kudos ..."

Amen to that

Torture
The real torture is having to read this woman's viewpoint on a reputable news site. Does Townhall not realize this woman is a favorite of very liberal newspapers throughout the country? I'm sorry, if I wanted to read ridiculous left-wing tripe I would be on the MSNBC site, or subscribe to TIME or NEWSWEEK! Why is she taking up valuable space that could be occupied by someone of intelligence and character? I don't need this PTA Mom lecturing me on how this country should be run. What I need is an outstanding commitment to American principles and justice. Floozies and dumb blonds need not apply!

Kudos
Thank you Kathleen Parker. Most of the time I disagree with you, but this article hits the nail squarely on the head.

If you have to ask a lawyer whether you are contemplating doing something illegal it probably is. If you have to ask others whether something you plan to do is immoral, it probably is.

Words all of us, conservative or liberal should live by.

BK
"Date: Apr 27, 2009 - 7:09 PM EST
Hal writes:
Better for him to be a dictator the natural progression of your thought bad for us though


Me thinks Hal has been drinking Kool-Aid for way to long. BO is attempting to become a dictator..."

This is a straight up lie. Why do you do that????

"...With your logic crimes against humanity occur each and everytime an abortion is performed. But then again, you don't think that this is torture..."

Abortion is not torture unless inflicted upon the mother. You every sperm is sacred crowd are a real hoot

"...You also are agisnt capital punishment because it violates the criminals rights..damn the victim...."

What purpose does it serve? You are a buffoon

"...You also believe that peodophiles can be rehabilitated and shouldn't be made to be discriminated against."

This is the RC church's problem apparently

"...Why do liberals always side with the criminals and not the victims?"

A better question is how can "the religious right" condone torture? WWJD?