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Friday, August 22, 2008
Kathleen Parker :: Townhall.com Columnist
Obama's Born-Alive Problem
by Kathleen Parker
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Abortion is back with, dare we say it, biblical vengeance.

Republicans recently have been focused on Barack Obama's opposition several years ago to "born alive" legislation in Illinois that mirrored similar federal legislation aimed at granting personhood to a fetus/baby that was alive after removal from its mother's body, either by abortion or premature birth.

In the past few weeks, Obama has been accused of everything from favoring infanticide to lying about his vote, to inventing a cover-up, to being a baby-killing extremist.

Politics is no place for the squeamish.

What is more likely true is that Obama is studiously cautious, too smart by half, and ambivalent to a fault. Suddenly, the man whose campaign seemed helium-propelled is being pulled back down to Earth by the force of his own vagueness. Abortion, of all things, has become his kryptonite.

The long history of the Illinois born-alive bill is, well, long. Sixteen versions of the legislation came and went during the period under scrutiny and finally passed after Obama left for Washington. That history is also complicated and not as straightforward as is being advanced by Obama's and abortion's common foes.

It is probably fair to say that Obama does not favor infanticide, though his position on the Illinois bill was extreme even by pro-choice standards. But Obama's current problem isn't really about his position on abortion. It is about his central weakness as a presidential candidate: He overthinks and ends up seeming not to know what he thinks.

He can't seem to give a straight answer.

To briefly recap: Obama's initial opposition to the born-alive legislation was a concern that such a law would undermine Roe v. Wade. Based on his comments at the time, he apparently reasoned that granting personhood to an aborted fetus, albeit one with a heartbeat, was a subterfuge tactic aimed at granting personhood to a fetus.

Not without cause did he reach that conclusion. Most observers of the abortion debate understand that the legislation was fueled in part by hopes that personhood eventually might find its way back inside the birth canal. This may have been a tactic, but so it goes.

It has always seemed to me perfectly appropriate that we find terminating human life troublesome. Although settled as the law of the land, abortion at any point should be an unsettling proposition. The fact that abortion refuses to recuse itself from present politics merely confirms that many Americans are not ready to be gods.

Obama, perhaps, excluded. When asked to explain his position as a state legislator, Obama said he would have voted for the law had it included a neutrality clause -- similar to one added to the federal law -- affirming that the bill would not impact Roe v. Wade.

But the Illinois legislation in final form did include such a neutrality clause, prompting charges that Obama deliberately lied. Or did he merely misremember, as often happens in politics?

What did Obama mean and when did he mean it?

Alas, the more he tries to explain his position, the more muddled the picture becomes and the more confused voters are. The most revealing answer may have come when pastor Rick Warren asked the Illinois senator when a baby gets human rights.

"Well, uh, you know, I think that whether you're looking at it from a theological perspective or, uh, a scientific perspective, uh, answering that question with specificity, uh, you know, is, is, uh, above my pay grade."

Well, uh, not really.

Yes, Warren's question was complicated, especially if you're a politician afraid of saying the wrong thing. But the answer is really pretty simple. It's whatever one thinks. It is not above anyone's pay grade to be honest.

Instead, Obama punted.

Americans are accustomed to differing views on abortion and will tolerate a flip-flop now and then. But a politician who finesses or fudges out of an instinct to please will be viewed as either spineless or insecure or both -- none of which inspires confidence.

The result of such exquisite ambivalence isn't a higher level of discourse, but a lower level of trust, as recent surveys reflect. A new Reuters/Zogby poll shows McCain running five points ahead of Obama nationwide. Other polls show McCain pulling even.

Obama's born-alive problem ultimately could prove fatal to the man who thought too hard and lost his sense.

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About The Author
Kathleen Parker is a syndicated columnist with the Washington Post Writers Group.
 
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Liberals Don't Care About Dead Babies
Obamamaniacs don't care if Obama is for infanticide, because this is the Democrat Party voting base; in fact, they welcome it.

Perverts and reprobates of every stripe are what make up the rag-tag base of Obamamaniacs, and more importantly, the Democrat Party itself. Nancy Pelosi's dream is that San Fransissy'o become the model of American society [a place where homsexuals and illegal aliens are more welcome than United States Marines]. She is not the only one. Her's and Obama's views on America are representative of their core constituency.

This is the "Change" they have been "Hope"ing for.

Their seeing his lack of concern or conscience about leaving babies to die, gives them all-the-more confidence that he will support their own individual brands of moral terpitude.

The very things we are appalled at, are the very things that attract the "special interests" groups that support such a candicacy. Abortion-on-demand, man-to-man marriage, homosexual adoption [influence] over children...etc.

That Obama supports even infanticide [in the name of a woman's choice] assures all other perversions [under his & his Party's administration] will be as likely to be even more than merely permissable; they will be officially condoned.

Don't expect liberals to care about innocent babies being left to die in hospital storerooms. To them it is an acceptable sacrifice to make if their own selfish perversions can be, likewise, allowed. This is the kind of society so-called "progressives" want to make of America.

Obama is their champion and their best shot at having it.

Infanticide
Any time a new human being with a heartbeat is killed, in or out of the womb, it is infanticide. Those who choose to ignore that fact are child killers. The real debate should be whether or not the baby killers get life in prison or the death penalty, not whether or not they continue to be allowed to murder children.

Obama lied – babies died
B.H.O. is no reformer – he’s a gangster-style, old school Chicago hack. B.H.O. is not “The One” – he is by calculative composition a champion of his master’s agenda (Unions, Planned Parenthood, and Mr. Soros et al). B.H.O. will change our capitalist country into one, big union shop run by the Democrats; bent towards the left so far that his socialist European friends will recognize him for the Communist at heart he really is.
I do not fear him; I loathe him for the holocaust of the Unborn (and in some cases the Born) he so adamantly supports. I do not think is name is funny; I think his name speaks defiantly of his family’s murderous, African-Muslim roots.
The more his candidacy is vetted, the more we learn about the puppet-masters behind the scrim of the burka. The G.O.P. will have enormous crossover votes because we love to win, believe our country is the best the world has ever seen, and mightily disapprove of American apologists. We will elect McCain because he actually will put the country first – and has the alarming record of cavorting with Democrats to prove it. John may not have led the perfect, conservative life but no one has, eh? McCain’s life is an open book and Obama’s is shrouded in mystery, deceit, and dope.
See you at the polls!


Ms. Parker
is being far too kind.
She says, "He overthinks and ends up seeming not to know what he thinks." I think it's far worse than that.
He knows exactly what he's doing at the time. He was probably appeasing the radical abortion rights groups and didn't want to pass anything that they didn't want him not to pass.
His problem is self made. He tried to dodge the question by saying it was above his paygrade. But, what's worse is that he called those who challenged him on his record "liars". He's a liar. He should just come out and admit that he wouldn't vote for ANY rights for babies outside the womb. I'm sure his sycophant followers would applaud him for being honest.

Excellent Column Kathleen
And excellent first post to OncealwaysaMarine.

It has long been an established fact that Abortion, by any means, is the first Sacrament of both the Democrat party and the left in this country.

Just watch them when it comes to any legislation of significant consequense. Each and every bill they introduce will have some wording in it meant solely to preserve a womans "right to choose."

Chuckie Schemer recently went so far as to put a clause into a military funding bill that anyone who was against abortion was disallowed said financial aid/funding.
Sadly I can't remember where I saw it.

ON PRO LIFE, ABORTION, EUTHANASIA...
ON PRO LIFE, ABORTION, EUTHANASIA, CAPITAL PUNISHMENT AND OTHER MORAL AND ETHICAL CHOICES, by Ivan Erickson, author of “Song of the Storm Winds”. Please visit http://www.ivan-erickson.com to read and comment on my religious discourses, and to order my novel via direct links to amazon.com
Man’s Free Will: From The Book of Sirach, 15:11 – 20:
“Say not: ‘It was God’s doing that I fell
away’;
for what he hates he does not do.
Say not: ‘It was he who set me astray’;
for he has no need of wicked man.
Abominable wickedness the LORD
hates,
he does not let it befall those who fear
him.
When God, in the beginning, created
man,
he made him subject to his own free
choice.
If you choose, you can keep the com-
mandments;
it is loyalty to do his will.
There are set before you fire and water;
to whichever you choose, stretch
forth your hand.
Before man are life and death,
whichever he chooses shall be given
him.
Immense is the wisdom of the LORD;
he is mighty in power, and all-seeing.
The eyes of God see all he has made;
he understands man’s every deed.
No man does he command to sin,
to none does he give strength for lies”.
Also, God gave us the commandment, “Thou Shalt Not Kill”! Please note that he gave us no addenda to that commandment, except in the case of the destructive power of His Sword – which is war and other Acts of God! Man must not supersede, change, delete or countermand so much as one of God’s commandments, mandates, laws, decrees, jurisdictions or covenants. If man or woman does so, remember also these words of God from The Book of Sirach, 7:8:
“Do not plot to repeat a sin; /not even for one will you go unpunished”. / May the Beloved Lord bless each of you, always.

Obamas and Partial Birth Abortions

What kind of principles do the Oamas have? Obama is said to be a 'deeply religious' man.
What deeply held religious conviction is this?
------------------------------------------------
"U.S. Senate candidate Barack Obama's wife, Michelle, sent a fund-raising letter with the "alarming news" that 'right-wing politicians' had passed a law stopping doctors from stabbing half-born babies in the neck with scissors, suctioning out their brains and crushing their skulls. Michelle called partial-birth abortion 'a legitimate medical procedure,' and wouldn't supporters please pay $150 to attend a luncheon for her husband, who would fight against 'cynical ploy[s]' to stop it?"

“Whenever we define a pre-viable fetus as a person that is protected by the Equal Protection Clause or the other elements in the Constitution, what we're really saying is, in fact, that they are persons that are entitled to the kinds of protections that would be provided to a -- a child, a 9-month old -- child that was delivered to term. That determination then, essentially, if it was accepted by a court, would forbid abortions to take place. I mean, it -- it would essentially bar abortions, because the Equal Protection Clause does not allow somebody to kill a child, and if this is a child, then this would be an anti-abortion statute.” Barack Obama 2002 Illinois

Michelle Obama and BAIPA

From: email-list@obamaforillinois.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2004 7:41 AM
Subject: A Message from Michelle Obama

"February 17, 2004

Dear Friends:

We have all been concerned lately with the rise of conservatism in this country, especially as it relates to women.

You've read the alarming news about the Justice Department's request for hospitals to turn over the private medical records of dozens of patients.

This cynical ploy is designed to intimidate a group of physicians and force them to drop their lawsuit seeking to have the so-called partial birth abortion ban ruled unconstitutional.

The fact remains, with no provision to protect the health of the mother, this ban on a legitimate medical procedure is clearly unconstitutional and must be overturned.

Attorney General Ashcroft and president bush believe so zealously in their cause that the privacy rights of patients are under assault.

They believe we have no federal right to privacy when it concerns our medical histories.

On March 16th, we have a chance to nominate a candidate who will be tireless in the fight to protect women.

It isn't simply about the right to choose, or privacy rights. It is about pay equity, about ending domestic violence, promoting health care around the world, and letting doctors decide treatment options, not federal judges..."

Michelle Obama

Barack Obama and BAIPA

"Let me tell you a story. In 2002, President Bush signed into law a bill titled the "Born Alive Infants Protection Act" (BAIPA). This law was necessary because, believe it or not, infants were being born alive during attempted abortions and then, ancient Spartan style, left to die. Jill Stanek wrote about this last year, saying:

"As a nurse at an Illinois hospital in 1999, I discovered babies were being aborted alive and shelved to die in soiled utility rooms. I discovered infanticide."

The act was so vile that even staunch abortion advocates would not oppose BAIPA. Stanek tells us that it passed the Senate by unanimous vote, garnering the support of senators Kerry, Kennedy and Clinton. She then pointed out:

I testified in 2001 and 2002 before a committee of which Obama was a member.

Obama articulately worried that legislation protecting live aborted babies might infringe on women's rights or abortionists' rights.

Obama's clinical discourse, his lack of mercy, shocked me. I was naive back then. Obama voted against the measure, twice. It ultimately failed."

Jill Stanek

Kathleen....
Didn't you write an article recently saying that you disapproved of having a political debate between McCain and Obama hosted by a Christian church with its pastor as the moderator? Yes, I thought so.

Well, during that debate, it was Obama's disturbing answer in response to a pointed question asked by Warren about when a baby should be accorded human rights that now has everyone talking about Obama and abortion, including you.

Up until last Saturday night, the main stream media basically ignored this issue and has given Obama a pass, particularly with respect to Obama's vote against the Born Alive Infants Act.

If it were not for Rick Warren's question to Obama last Saturday night we would not be discussing this issue today. Yet you said that it was wrong to hold the debate at the Saddleback campus, because it is a Christian church and it was a Christian pastor who asked the question(s).

Personally, I am most grateful that Warren had the guts to ask that question that the lame media won't ask. I didn't need Chris Matthews, Andrea Mitchell, or Keith Olbermann interpreting what Obama meant to say. Indeed, answering that question and others are above Obama's paygrade, in my opinion.

I wish we had more debates like this last one, which proved to be more revealing than all the past 9 months of main stream media pap.

Retired Geek
Thanks for your posts on the comments made by Michelle and Barack and the very moving testimony of Jill Stanek, RN. There is nothing better than hearing these comments "straight from the horse's mouth".

Babies who are born alive and take their first breaths despite attempts to end their lives through abortion are U.S. citizens. This by the mere fact that they are BORN on U.S. soil.

Yet the Obama's think that by their very survival it somehow threaten's a woman's right to choose abortion. How dare these little ones survive!

However these babies are accorded a unique right: to be left alone to die (of natural causes?) and to have a birth certificate AND a death certificate issued to them on the very same day. No other babies to my knowledge have been granted that right.


ICE: Pro Life Muslim ????
Now theres's an OxyMORON! Let's see, kill all infidels, lying is always acceptable to further the cause, kill women who do not obey, kill daughters who don't obey, kill those who write cartoons, kill, kill, kill....oh yeah - religion of peace! ANYWAY...
Kathleen is either being very kind or very naive...I wish people would quit saying Obama "over thinks things" because there is a big difference in "over thinking something", which suggests actual intelligent thought and spouting out NARALS talking points which anyone can do WITHOUT thinking! Methinks he DOESN'T THINK!

For Fabius
"The President, by himself, cannot stop abortions."

Abortion is legal in most states in the country only because of one of the worst, most pejorative, and convoluted Supreme Court "opinions" ever foisted upon the public. It was also one of the most abusive acts of judicial interference ever perpetrated.

The next President will appoint at least two new Supreme Court Justices. With the current balance on the Court at 5-4 in favor of upholding Roe vs. Wade, and with two of the 'majority' about to retire, the next two appointments will have a profound effect on abortion law for the an entire generation.

Immigration and health care are relevant issues, but they are not the topic of this thread. Abortion is, and Obama's stammering, evasive response at Saddleback plus his insistence on permitting the murder of infants who have survived abortions show us clearly that he is a slave to the pro-abortion radicals who have been treating unborn children as cancerous tumors for so long that they now think they can treat fully born children the same way.

Planned Parenthood?
Speaking of oxyMORON. Planned Parenthood?

“The number one taker of black life is abortion, and it’s time people woke up to that fact. The location of this latest Planned Parenthood facility in yet another minority neighborhood is a part of the continuing fulfillment of the racist, eugenicist dream of their founder, Margaret Sanger, but it is a travesty of the American dream. Planned Parenthood’s agenda discards the principle that we are all created equal, which is the basis of liberty for all Americans.” - Alan Keyes

OBAMA on Planned Parenthood
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUl99id2SvM

Presidency is "Not My Pay Grade"
When Obama made this statement, I think he was telling the world the truth. His pay grade is lower that "President of the United States."

Overthetop1
It is so disheartening to see so many folks, white and black, committing political suicide. They focus on being a victim, and vote in uninformed desperation for a pol who makes promises that are impossible to keep. So we have blacks voting for people who promote the abortion of black babies, and veto school choice that might provide the traditional education path out of poverty. Staunch blue collar workers vote for policies which guarantee disaster for unskilled labor. Its sad.

License to kill
"The most revealing answer may have come when pastor Rick Warren asked the Illinois senator when a baby gets human rights. ... the answer is really pretty simple. It's whatever one thinks. It is not above anyone's pay grade to be honest."

This is the essence of the fundamentally amoral prochoice position on allowing abortion choice - it doesn't matter when life begins. Just permit women to act on their own best hunch about this, rather than making a case the practice is justified on grounds that the act of abortion is entirely harmless.

In other words, it is irrelevant to prochoicers whehther abortion ends a human life, just as long as individual women can exercise a right of abortion choice to do whatever they want for whatever reason they want. They don't even have to consider whether or not abortion is harmless act.

My question to prochoicers is why should such an ethic of moral license be limited to abortion, and not apply as well to every other area of human conduct? Aren't all laws, in the eyes of prochoicers, a violation of a freedom to choose to do whatever an individual desires to do?

What is worse, Dafur or Abortion
Obama and other liberals are the first ones to stand up and protest the murdurs and killings happening in Darfur. They oppose the war in Iraq because of all of the civilians being killed. Yet in the last 35 years over 44 million of our own citizens have been murdered. No one protested for them, they did not get a trial, they were not allowed to vote. Obama needs to seriously look at the inconsistancies in his arguments. He, as well as many others on both sides, need to stop worrying about what certain people think and start doing what is right.

Infanticide
As Ables blood cried out to God, so does these innocent babies! Obama will stand before God on judgment day.

If answering this question is "above"
Obama's pay scale, then it's above his pay scale to be making decisions on failed partial birth abortions.

In fact anything other than a community organizer, which is his only item on his resume, I wouldn't elect this guy as dog catcher. He'd kill the dogs before he could catch them.

Misremembers?
Mr. Obama seems to be chronically afflicted with this syndrome of misremembering. He makes John Kerry look like a genius. If Obama's mind is this leaky when he's just an AWOL senator, what will happen if he's condemmed to the stress and vexations of the Presidency?

Let's do Obama a favor and vote for the other guy.

Black Infanticide? You Decide.
"We should hire three or four colored ministers, preferably with social-service backgrounds, and with engaging personalities. The most successful educational approach to the Negro is through a religious appeal. We don't want the word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population. and the minister is the man who can straighten out that idea if it ever occurs to any of their more rebellious members."
Margaret Sanger, Founder of Planned Parenthood

I would bet that NEVER in her wildest dreams did Sanger ever envision a politician of color such as Barry Obama being in a position to 'help' her cause the way he has in in the past & continues to do.

*Margaret Sanger was invitied MANY TIMES to speak at KKK 'gatherings/meetings' and ACCEPTED the invitations!!

"Marharet Sanger was one of the favorites of the KKK"
Rev. Jesse Lee Peterson
4/26/08 FoxNews interview

Black Pastors have asked Congress to STOP funding Planned Parenthood & Investigate what they call "Genocidal Policies towards the black community".

My question is simply this - How much has Planned Parenthood given to the Obama Campaign directly or indirectly through 'private' donations (families, employees, etc.)

W.O=

Extremists and Infanticide
The Liberal Mr. Obama was foolish enough to leave his own voice as testament to this affront. There is solace in knowing that
this testament was voice recorded, thusly from the horse mouth, and it was documented.
In this case his own words will come back to haunt him. I hope he remembers this for everyone must account for crimes against children. Herod knows.
Thank you Retired Geek, this is one issue which will keep all the negative bloggers from joining,

The Facts Hurt Barry
At ANY Pay grade!

BAIPA (Born Alive Infant Protection Act) sailed through the U.S. Senate by unanimous vote. Even Sens. Clinton, Kennedy and Kerry agreed a mother's "right to choose" stopped at her baby's delivery.
The House also overwhelmingly passed the bill. NARAL WENT NEUTRAL ON IT. Abortion enthusiasts publicly agreed that fighting BAIPA would appear extreme.

On Oct. 4, 2004 the Chicago Tribune reported - "... Obama said that had he been in the U.S. Senate two years ago, he would have voted for the Born-Alive Infants Protection Act, even though he voted against a state version of the proposal. The difference between the state and federal versions, Obama explained, was that the state measure lacked the federal language clarifying that the act would not be used to undermine Roe vs. Wade, the 1973 U.S. Supreme Court opinion that legalized abortion."
Despite his assertions, his protests & his campaign's spin, Obama DID OPPOSE the Illinois STATE VERSION of the Born Alive Infant bill in 2001, 2002 and 2003. The bill was assigned to the Illinois Senate Health and Human Services Committee, which Obama chaired, along with an amendment that added -- word for word -- the federal language Democrats said protected Roe.

The motion failed 4-6-0 along party lines, and the chairman, then State Sen. Barack Obama, VOTED NO.
The result of the vote meant that the bill died in the committee...which meant LIVE-BORN INFANTS continued dying without medical care, or comfort being administered.

Thanks To The Obamassiah.


W/O=

my hope
When this man gets away from his rehearsed rock concerts the veil gets pulled back to reveal who and what he truly is. Thankfully, judging by the latest polls people are starting to wake up from their Obama mystic hypnosis and seeing this man with some clarity. When the lights get turned on some of his followers don't like what they see.

There is no issue more revealing of Obama's heart and character than this one. For a man to condone infantacide becuase it MIGHT undermine all abortion and to cold-bloodedly calculate political and ideoligical strategy over life, even one, like it is a chess game is callous to say the least.

What's more frightening is the fact that a mass of Americans will vote for this man with full knowledge and culpability of his stance on infantacide.

He is humanitarian enough to propose an 845 billion world poverty and aid package courtesy of the American taxpayer yet not humanitarian enough to save the lives of defenseless babies. Just stick them in a closet, let them die and throw them in the trash. He's correct, theologically and scientifically the presidency is far above his pay grade. My hope is that the majority of Americans will agree with him on this one and make the check out to someone else.

Obama and His Nuances
"O" reminds me of the man who was so open minded that his brains fell out.

Not yet ready for prime time
Obama is simply not ready to be president of the United States. It is amazing that his poll numbers are still as high as they are. It's scary to think that Obama fits the notion of so many people of what it takes to be president of this country?

You left something out
The main reason Obama was justified in opposing the bill was because it was written by fetus fetishist crackpots, who think birth control pills are murder. One of the lunatics accusing Obama of supporting infanticide also accuses Michael J. Fox of being a cannibal. So Obama was justified in opposing anything those psychopaths wanted.

Get off it!
Many people say they would never vote for a candidate who would permit an abortion.

I am ready to say I will vote for a candidate who promises to never mention that word again.

Does this really need discussed each and every day? Is this the most important issue facing the US at this time? Can you imagine the mind of anyone being changed on abortion, depending on what you or I say?

Can you imagine refusing to accept a good job, because the boss said a word you didn’t like, when the pay, the location the potential was excellent?

Would you marry or divorce a spouse who did not share your opinion, on one, and only one issue?

Come people, this is the world, there are 8 billion people each with dozens of problems, each more important than an abortion by someone a thousand miles away.

You may have read this before:

Oh you Johnny one-notes, get off of it.

You men will never get pregnant, and if anyone else is pregnant, it is none of your business, unless you caused it.

Women have no business screaming about abortion unless they are the one who is pregnant, and they want an abortion. Other wise it is none of your business.


Ladies do you like someone to say you can’t paint your nails that color, wear that type of dress, fix your hair in that style?

Well if you get upset at such complaints about minor items, how do you think a pregnant lady, who is sick, has no money, is mentally ill, does not know the man responsible, feels when you complain at what she feels she needs to do.

Get off it!

Get off it!

Many people here, say they would never vote for a candidate who would permit an abortion.

I am ready to say I will vote for a candidate who promises to never mention that word again.

Does this really need discussed each and every day? Is this the most important issue facing the US at this time? Can you imagine the mind of anyone being changed on abortion, depending on what you or I say?

Can you imagine refusing to accept a good job, because the boss said a word you didn’t like, when the pay, the location the potential was excellent?

Would you marry or divorce a spouse who did not share your opinion, on one, and only one issue?

Come people, this is the world, there are 8 billion people each with dozens of problems, each more important than an abortion by someone a thousand miles away.

You may have read this before:

Oh you Johnny one-notes, get off of it.

You men will never get pregnant, and if anyone else is pregnant, it is none of your business, unless you caused it.

Women have no business screaming about abortion unless they are the one who is pregnant, and they want an abortion. Other wise it is none of your business.


Ladies do you like someone to say you can’t paint your nails that color, wear that type of dress, fix your hair in that style?

Well if you get upset at such complaints about minor items, how do you think a pregnant lady, who is sick, has no money, is mentally ill, does not know the man responsible, feels when you complain at what she feels she needs to do.

Get off it!

none of my business
Some people here say that if you're not the patient or the doctor (the ones directly involved) concerning abortion then it's none of your business.

When planned parenthood lobbies Congress to change laws in this society, when my ten-year-old daughter is exposed to their ideological teaching in public schools without my consent, when they have the authority to medically advise my daughter to have an abortion without my consent, when my tax dollars go to fund abortions, when a candidate for President of the United States supports infanticide it just left the doctor's office and became my business.

Some people here say that infantacide is a "minor item". They're parroting their leader. You may have read this before: Birds of a feather flock together. Like father like son. The fruit never falls far from the tree. Evil loves company.

PRIORITIES
I'm not sure how concerned I should be about issues regarding health care, immigration, and the even the war if we live in a country where it's legal for mothers to kill their own babies.

I'm suppose to be outraged about where my tax money is going while innocent babies are murdered?

A civilization that does not care about its most helpless members is NO civilization.

Some people just don't get it.


To: Jim
It's so sad and embarrassing to hear you argue this way.

Substitute 'slavery' for 'abortion' and you have the exact same argument made by most Southerners and slave owners back in the 1840's and 1850's. Here's your argument from above restated this way:

"People have no business screaming about slavery unless they are the one who doesn't have a slave, and they want to buy one. Other wise it is none of your business."

Do you agree with that? It's YOUR argument.

Of course, on both subjects, the real issue is whether slavery/abortion is an acceptable practice. And, of course, people not directly involved in the practice can and should be allowed to have and share an opinion on the matter. You apparently would have us believe that only slave owners should have had an opionion on slavery.

Separately, your "there are so many other more important issues" argument borders on offensive. Please understand that many, many people are convinced that abortion KILLS A CHILD. If you believe this, how cold and heartless you'd have to be to think any other matter was more important.

A fetus is not a slave


Liberty Guy Location: CA
Reply # 36
Date: Aug 22, 2008 - 2:11 PM EST
Subject: To: Jim
It's so sad and embarrassing to hear you argue this way.

Substitute 'slavery' for 'abortion' and you have the exact same argument made by most Southerners and slave owners back in the 1840's and 1850's.
========

How stupid, the slave was a living breathing human being, not a fetus. And they had to have permisssion of their government to own a slave, and they had thousands of other people catching slaves, transporting them, selling them, and on and on, and it was all done in public.

The abotion is a result of a meeting between two people, in private, and it only concerns the lady, and she did not have thousands of people involved to get her pregnant, like the slave owner had to help him own a slave.

=========

abortion KILLS A CHILD. If you believe this, how cold and heartless you'd have to be to think any other matter was more important.
---
Street gangs kill thousands, wars kill millions, seems either is more important than a fetus, especially when the resulting baby maybe was born in a culture that will just result in another gang banger, of whatever race or color.


To: Jim
Why do you call me stupid? It just shows you don't have much confidence in your own position when you start calling others names.

Let's move on. Your "a fetus is not a slave" completely misses my point. You said basically that a woman choosing to abort is none of anyone else's business. My point is that people said that to defend slavery. Their defense was shown to be wrong. And today everyone understands that slavery IS WRONG, even if some people insisted on believing differently.

You also said a slave was a living, breathing human being. Breathing is NOT a condition of "human being". If it were, heart/lung transplant patients would for several hours cease to be people, which is absurd. A baby in the womb actually does respirate. It takes in oxygen through the placenta instead of through its lungs, but it's still respirating in the meaningful sense of the word.

Finally, your thoughts on street gangs, etc. is troubling. If you see thousands killed by gangs or millions by war, you consider that important. But if one baby is killed while in the womb, that doesn't bother you. What a shame.

Simply mis-remembering?
With due respect, I think you are giving too much credit to Obama to say that he may have simply mis-remembered the facts?

Obama went out of the way to publicly accuse the National Right to Life Committee of lying. I think any intelligent people would acquire more certitude before making such a public accusation, especially since the record is readily available.

I think Obama may have mis-remembered initially, but for one reason or another, would not back down and simply offer an apology and an alternate explanation as his campaign is doing right now.

Had he done this before the NRLC made the documents public, he would still have to carry the burden of angering pro-life voters, but at least he would have appeared honest and maintained his image of transcending politics. As is, he appears to be lying, covering up, and wobbling on his positions, i.e. politics as usual.

Obama's Admits Deception on BAIPA
Finally, this week, Barack Obama's campaign has admitted that he is wrong in accusing others of lying about why he voted against the Born Alive Infants Protection Act. But of course, what else could he say --- the records of the legislature sessions and his actions are out there for all to see who are looking for the truth. The MSM, however, has virtually ignored the story, instead focusing on how many homes John McCain and his wife own (most of which, by-the way, are for the benefit of other family members.)

But that is not what is causing Obama's problems with the American voters . . . Those of us who RESEARCH and THINK and LISTEN to the actual words Obama says INSTEAD of just how skillfully he speaks, realize that there is much about Obama which causes us to realize we DO NOT WANT Barack Obama as POTUS . . . and it has nothing to do with the job being "above his pay grade." It's a matter of his character, his associations and his judgment -- all of which many of us question.

Cringing in Colorado
Ms Parker states," It is probably fair to say that Obama does not favor infanticide...". "...He overthinks and ends up seeming not to know what he thinks....

"...he apparently reasoned that granting personhood to an aborted fetus, albeit one with a heartbeat, was a subterfuge tactic aimed at granting personhood to a fetus."

"...the legislation was fueled in part by hopes that personhood eventually might find its way back inside the birth canal. This may have been a tactic, but so it goes.".

Where does one begin? To say that Obama does not favor infanticide is obviously ridiculous. He does favor infanticide as evidenced by his own words; perhaps one could say that he does not favor killing people once they have survived for 24 hours, but I'm really not even clear on that.

Second, to say that Obama overthinks is like saying that someone who is afraid to admit the truth is justified in trying to lie their way out of it.

Third, when KP says he thought "granting personhood to an aborted fetus, albeit one with a heartbeat, was a subterfuge tactic aimed at granting personhood to a fetus", I cringe at the barbarity of the statement. Let me rephrase: "recognizing that a botched abortion attempt, resulting in a baby being born, justifies the intentional murder of the infant and to do so is nothing more than a tactic aimed at undermining the mother's right and the doctor's duty to make sure the infant does not survive."

Fourth, KP states that abortion foes hope that "personhood eventually might find its way back inside the birth canal". Yes! And you have a problem with that?

Do we want polish or principle?
Obama is as polished as a mandarin, as calculating as a double-agent, always trying to frame his responses to questions in ways that cover all the bases--even both sides of an argument.

The problem, as Parker astutely notes, is that it leaves voters both confused and unsatisfied. Undecided voters, be they conservative Democrats or Independents, will take just so much of this, at which point they'll either stay home or vote for McCain.

And, frankly, who can blame them? We look for traits of honesty, candor, decency, and principle in our presidents. Obama seems incapable of responding with candor to complex questions. He seems archly sincere, but it's belied by his underlying desire to have it both ways.

McCain, in contrast, will tell you what he thinks and what he sees as being right for America. Disagree if you will, but you don't have to wonder where he stands on abortion, on taxes, on national security, or how to deal with despots.

Phil Mella
http://www.clearcommentary.com

Shame on those who are blinded
It will be interesting to see how my liberal Christian Democratic brothers and sisters handle BHO lack of an answer to a direct question. It will be very interesting to hear how anyone can justify continual support of anyone who supports the killing of those whom have survived botched abortions. Shame on those liberal Christian Democratic brothers and sisters if they are still blinded by BHO after this news.

For Slowpoke The Cruiser
0blahma CAN be termed a "reformer"--along the same lines as those in the following list:
(1) Jean-Paul Marat
(2) Robespierre
(3) Stalin
(4) Hitler
(5) Mao Zedong
(6) Mullah Omar (leader of Taliban regime in Afghanistan 1996-2001)
(7) Castro

@ arlanjio
"As is, he appears to be lying, covering up, and wobbling on his positions, i.e. politics as usual."

Well said...but others, who know Barry better than any of us have had similar things to say.

At the National Press Club Rev. Jeremiah Wright had this exchange with a questioner.

MODERATOR: Were you disappointed that he (Obama) distanced himself?

REVEREND WRIGHT: He didn't distance himself. He had to distance himself, BECAUSE HE'S A POLITICIAN..."
"So that's how I feel about that. HE DID, as I've said, WHAT POLITICIANS DO."

**From The New York Times 6/23/08 -

"Mr. Obama is running as a reformer who is seeking to reduce the influence of special interests. BUT LIKE ANY OTHER POLITICIAN, he has powerful constituencies that help shape his views."

So Barry IS just another politician, EXCEPT for the fact that he thinbks TERRORISTS like Bill Ayers & Bernadette Dohrn are "part of the establishment"
AND
He doesn't believe a LIVE-BORN INFANT is PART of the HUMAN RACE.


W/O=


Surprisingly naive
As I wrote on my blog post this morning, Obama IS in favor of infanticide, as evidenced by his own words on the subject. He feels the burden of "another doctor having to be called in to assess the situation" is just too much for the people trying to kill the baby to bear. My goodness, one does not need ANOTHER doctor to point out that the baby is alive. I daresay even a layperson would be able to determine that. He has no problem with killing full term babies in or out of the womb, a glaring example of his slavish devotion to "choice." What a crock. Kathleen, I am surprised.

you dare not answer this
if what all of you seen ==m to be saying about the one case of infanticide you clain to have written evidene iof is true. why didnt hthe nurse qwho saw all these things happening report it to the pro0er authorities. she certainly seem edto be concerned enough to make sure every right w3ing bliog in the country (in 1993) know=ew about it. regardless, since it seems to be commin knowledge that the doctor performed infanticide then why is it the no charges have been filed. it would seem like a pvery cclear ci=ut and dried case if it is a stated (which i doubt) why is them legal authority in wherever this maguic case happened being takedn to task for their groos incompetance. dont tell me its because they all favior infanticide. i am as strongly pro choice as you can possibly be but i . along with everyone i know who feels the same, i decidelky againstm infantice=ide. if thr doctor comittedfirst degrre mutrrder lets try him and put him away. if no then all of you shut up aboutit,. this email is addressed to a bunch of people to whom i would not waste my time spell checking and corecting. hyoure not qworth it.

Unborn Babies Have a Dream, Too
Obama says WORDS MATTER, but I believe ACTIONS MATTER MORE. He supports abortion and voted not to protect babies who were born alive as the result of a botched abortion. He says he is a supporter of Martin Luther King’s ideals, but his ACTIONS concerning the unborn purport the exact opposite.

In the past, slaves were deemed as second class citizens, and as such were the property of their “masters”. In the present, unborn babies are not yet considered citizens by all, and as such are the property of their “mothers”. Slaves and unborn babies…categorized as mere property.

Fortunately, slaves had the ability to speak. Unfortunately, unborn babies cannot speak up and denounce abortion. I’d wager that if unborn babies had the power of speech, they would say they have a dream, too: They dream that one day their pregnant mothers will rise up and see a reflection of themselves in their unborn children: a human being who has just as much right to live as anyone else, regardless of where they presently reside or how much life they have or have not yet lived.

Martin Luther King believed in Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness for ALL people. Maybe Obama should follow King’s example and abandon mere WORDS, re-evaluate his proprietorial tendencies toward the unborn, and EMBRACE A “CHANGE” OF HEART.


What Obama beleives

I think Obama beleives men have no "right" to take a stand on it. He felt his job was to clear the way to kill up to and to include letting a child die after surviving abortion.

Men and women lose in this proposition when fathers have NO WAY TO DEFEND their child while inside the participatory body of the woman.

Imagine how many men say, "Well, I had no choice, so it's the woman's responsibility."

Imagine how many single parents are out there who can't collect child support because the father refuses because they had the expectation that there would be no consequences because of the availability of abortion.

Perhaps mena and women would be less into "free=love" if they knew with certainty they there would be lasting consequences to their lack of restraint and honor.





MRBMRB
You ask why the nurse didn't report it. Report it to who? Thanks to Mr. Obama, it would be against the law for the baby to be allowed to live. You must have missed that part of the point.

jim
Abortion happens to be the topic of the column, in case you hadn't noticed that. I sorely doubt that it's the ONLY issue people have with Mr. Obama.

The rest of your (12:44pm) post is so inane I wouldn't know where to start.
Hint: no life is lost during a hairstyle change or nail polish color decision, hence society doesn't need to weigh in on those.

MRBMRB
Can you try to spell your words correctly in the future, and try using proper grammar? Somehow I get the feeling that you attended a "liberal indoctrination center", otherwise known as - public school with left-wing nuts for teachers.

mrbmrb
Forget spell-checking. You need a lot more help than that to write an intelligible post. The fact that you cannot do that tells readers that your opinions don't rate highly either. You waste your time.

OBAMA punted?
When asked for his biggest moral failure, Obama was quite direct: selfishness which led to drinking and drugs.
McCain said, "the failure of my first marriage," sounding like a brave man admitting that his long working hours led to his wife's feeling of abandonment. The TRUTH would have been, "I broke my vows and cheated on my wife who had been disabled in a car accident, and married my millionaire mistress."
That says more about McCain than his claimed views on abortion.

Just a thought
If a baby can survive an abortion and live isn't this proof that abortion is the taking of a human life?

TO A REPULSIVE MAN:
Jim,
So you're saying that abortion is the same as painting your nails? Maybe you're the mentally ill person! ABORTION is MURDER! That's a baby! There's no doubt! Just because the woman doesn't love the baby doesn't make it any less human! There's always adoption. Give the baby a nice, loving home, to people who will love it.

SORRY about the mentally ill comment. You are far worse. Saying that was an insult to people who can't help it. JIM, YOU CAN!
Erin

ERIN......................

That was a Great Post!!

Obama's Born-Alive Problem
If attempting to analyze every aspect of a difficult problem were a fault, then I would have to agree with Kathleen Parker that Obama has a serious flaw shared by neither Bush nor McCain. Maybe it’s a flaw serious enough to disqualify a person from being president of the United States.

Who Should Decide on Abortion
Abortion is an issue between God, the woman and her doctor. After 30+ years working in the federal government, I can assure you it is not a decision that can or should be made by government employees. Rather than seeking to control others, all of us should all spend our time doing good and attempting to improve ourselves. On judgment day, it is our own behavior for which we will be held accountable - not the behavior of others.

Tired and Desperate Attacks
These are debunked and recycled attacks from Alan Keyes in the 2004 Senate race. The only thing Obama did wrong was get confused in an explanation of why he voted down one particular 2003 version of BAIPA after more than 7 different versions of the bill were introduced in the Illinois General Assembly. He, and the rest of the Dems on his HHS committee, voted down that 2003 version because of generally accepted concerns that it could negatively affect a woman’s right to choose in Illinois.

Obama campaign spokesman Tommy Vietor has said that Obama would have voted for the 2005 Illinois bill if he had been a state legislator when it was considered because it addressed the concerns present in the 2003 version, much as he says he would have supported the federal bill, which wouldn’t have impacted non-existent federal law.

These are tired and desperate attacks.

http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/blog/2008/09/25/nrlc-born-ali ve-obama-infant-protections-attacks
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