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Friday, November 09, 2007
Kathleen Parker :: Townhall.com Columnist
What's God Got to Do With It?
by Kathleen Parker
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WASHINGTON -- When the founder of the Christian Coalition, who blames national disasters on abortion, gives his support to a thrice-married, pro-abortion, pro-gay-rights Catholic, does religion really matter anymore?

Pat Robertson's endorsement Wednesday of Rudy Giuliani for president just shifted "strange bedfellows" into "the weird turn pro" category. Robertson, who famously blamed Hurricane Katrina on our wanton ways -- and urged the assassination of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez -- announced his vote of confidence, saying that Giuliani has "proven time and time again that he is a social conservative."

Except that Giuliani hasn't and isn't, but that's OK because what Giuliani has proved time and again is that he was mayor of New York City on 9/11. And, as Robertson also said, Giuliani can be relied upon to defend the country against "the blood lust of Islamic terrorists."

Robertson's endorsement must have been a sticky moment for Giuliani, who couldn't rightly say, "no thanks," even if he might not relish being captured in the same frame with a man whose fellow evangelicals consider him only intermittently sane.

Generally speaking, politicians can move pretty quickly when they're about to be caught by the camera lens standing next to a fellow known for saying such things as liberal judges are a greater danger to America "than a few bearded terrorists who fly into buildings."

Then again, Robertson still holds sway with a daily average audience of almost 900,000 with his Christian Broadcasting Network's "The 700 Club." And Giuliani shares Robertson's concern about liberal judges, if not his sense that they're more dangerous than terrorists. Every chance he gets, Giuliani assures conservative audiences that, if elected, he'll appoint strict constructionist judges.

To evangelicals such as Robertson, that promise can be understood to mean: "I'm really on your team, but I have to get elected, don't I?"

But even conservative judges and Giuliani's tough posture on terrorism fail to tell what many believe is really behind Robertson's anointing of the most liberal Republican candidate for president. The real issue isn't fetuses or embryos or same-sex unions or bearded bad guys.

It's Clintons.

When it comes to that ol' time religion, nothing quite sparks the evangelical spirit like the thought of Bill and Hillary back in the White House and all the attendant imagery forever tattooed on buttoned-up brains.

Depending on one's view, Robertson is either unprincipled or brave. In fact, he has taken a courageous step by creating a crack in the conservative religious firmament. This at a time when religious conservatives have been threatening to stay home from the polls -- or support a third-party candidate -- rather than compromise principle.

Meeting in Salt Lake City recently, evangelical leaders discussed the third-party alternative. A Pew Research Center survey last month found that half of white evangelical Republicans would consider voting for a third-party candidate if Giuliani and Hillary face off next November.

But Robertson, for all his bluster and blunder, may have shifted the tectonic plates by giving evangelicals a green light to support Giuliani and forcing the question: Can evangelicals really afford to let Clinton win just so they can brag about being more virtuous than everyone else?

Michael Cromartie, director of the Evangelicals in Civic Life program at the Ethics and Public Policy Center, suggests Robertson's endorsement shows a growing pragmatic streak among religious conservatives. Many have learned, Cromartie says, that "politics is the art of making choices between relative goods and lesser evils.

Some evangelicals still insist they won't vote for Giuliani. Focus on the Family's James Dobson is one. Richard Land, president of the Southern Baptist Convention's Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission, is another. Both have cited Giuliani's support for abortion and his multiple marriages.

Speaking to Newsweek last month, Land compared a vote for Giuliani to voting for a Klansman and said, "I cannot vote for someone who believes that it's all right to stop a beating heart."

Land also has said that evangelicals might support Mitt Romney despite theological differences. Cromartie agrees, but again, Hillary matters most.

"They just don't want her," he says of evangelicals.

So in 2008, if terror trumps bioethics, and Hillary puts terror in evangelical hearts, what does religious conviction mean? Is religion primarily a matter of virtue -- or of pragmatism?

Next November will tell. In the meantime, a glance at two recent surveys by the Pew Research Center provides a hint: Both parties' front-runners, Clinton and Giuliani, also lead among a broad spectrum of religious groups.

For now, it would appear that pragmatism is virtue, and religion on the right means beating Hillary.

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About The Author
Kathleen Parker is a syndicated columnist with the Washington Post Writers Group.
 
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Hey, big gov't social conservatives:
How sad about the social conservative implosion. ;) LOL!

Hey big government Internet poker prohibitionists: I remember you all whining about Internet poker with phrases like "click your mouse, lose your house", as if we all needed big government to protect us from ourselves, like we're in the old Soviet Union or something. Well, you know what? We don't need big government to protect us from ourselves. Don't let me click my mouse, lose ALL your (non-Southern) seats in the House! Haha.

So, what will you vote for next Nov? A future President Clinton, or a future President Giuliani? Hahaha. I'm LMAO! Nice overreach, guys.

fakes!
to the 900,000 "Christians" who support the 700 club...

I TOLD YOU SO! Now change the station and quit giving them half your mortgage every month. You've been duped.

Just say no Patrick!
I know it's late...but please don't drink and post. You might hurt yourself.

Christian scoundrel!
Pat Robertson is nothing less than a money-grabbing charlatan who poses as a Christian. A simonist par excellence

And nature looked back upon itself and
ASKED WHY. Sometimes we asked the wrong people.Anyway back to the subject .For me Mitt Romney has the best mind and the best set of standards .I know that his tribe shaves it's facial hair and eats animals. Do you not want the best proven alpha male?

TRUST ME .........says .....N.Y. LAWYER
Rudy scatches on 8 ball Pat Robinson .AND NOW SOME POSITIVE NEWS....Mitt and Ann shop Christmas early. Mitt's perfect storm on the horizon and leading in the first five states prove to be a busy season. Mitt and Ann love God and their neighbors. I think Ann will be a great first lady too. " Evangelicals for Mitt " is a place for more info.

Robertson and 900,000 Kool Aid Drinkers
Robertson, Dobson, the Catholic church (secret society of child abusers) and most of the organized protestant groups have been feeding we christians a liberal amount of Kool Aid since the 1960s. So I should trust Robertson with an "enemy" of his society? What is wrong about this?

Pat Robertson = IDIOT
The man is a dumb a$$. This is the PRIMARIES where you do your best to get someone nominated who would best aspouse and then uphold your positions. If Rudy got the nomination ( God help us ) then MABYE throw your support behind the man. This of course would only make sense if ALL you care about is keeping Hillary out of the WH. I personally will never vote for him. IMHO he is Hillary with less hair.

And who would believe him concerning judges? He nominated NOT ONE conserative judge in NY. Utter nonsence. I always say pay attention to what people DO not what they SAY. Follow that advice and avoid a world of hurt.

Duncan Hunter '08

patrick
Congratulations. You gave posters like Lilly a few choice lines to quote back as exemplars of conservative thought.
For my part, I found your post offensive and am flagging it as such.

comment
Quote from article:
"Can evangelicals really afford to let Clinton win just so they can brag about being more virtuous than everyone else? "

Anyone who brags about his virtue is not practicing Christianity.

THE MAFIA'S TEN COMMANDMENTS
Compare all the presidential candidates by the following moral standards to determine whether they meet the minimum standards of La Cosa Nostra as announced today by Italian police.

If they can't even meet the 10 Commandments of the freakin' Mafia, then WHY should we consider them at all for public office?

Maybe we need to amend the Constitution to let Italian mafiosi run for office. We might get better leaders. They're murderers, you say? Well, Hillary ...

-

The Mafia's "Ten Commandments"

1. No-one can present himself directly to another of our friends. There must be a third person to do it.
2. Never look at the wives of friends.
3. Never be seen with cops.
4. Don't go to pubs and clubs.
5. Always being available for Cosa Nostra is a duty - even if your wife's about to give birth.
6. Appointments must absolutely be respected.
7. Wives must be treated with respect.
8. When asked for any information, the answer must be the truth.
9. Money cannot be appropriated if it belongs to others or to other families.
10. People who can't be part of Cosa Nostra: anyone who has a close relative in the police, anyone with a two-timing relative in the family, anyone who behaves badly and doesn't hold to moral values.

Slip Slidin' Away.
If Conservatives support Giuliani because he is a good politician who might be able to defeat the Clintons, they are doing far more than becoming pragmatic. They are surrendering some of their most cherished values. Giuliani has a record as an unashamed and flagrant adulterer. His wife had to seek a court order to keep his girlfriend out of her home. Adultery aside, what are the American people going to do if Giuliani is locked out of the Whitehouse? He was locked out of Gracie Mansion. What message does Giuliani's life send to children? Clearly, it sends the message that, in love as in war, anything and everything is permitted. Do we want this? For thirty-four years, the Supreme Court of the United States has sent the message that abortion is morally permissible. How? Well, if the highest court in the land decrees that abortion is a personal right then no one can expect the young to believe that abortion is not morally permissible.

Far better that Conservatives set their own standards. Forget beating the Clintons. Look to the long term. Conservatives must establish themselves as an independent political party that must be courted by Democrats and Republicans. Only then can Conservatives have clout. Surely, the "W" administration has proved, time and again, that Conservatives have no clout in the Republican Party.

Sawmiller, perfect!
Kathleen, why are you still trying to ram Rudy down our throats when the first primary is still months away. We are tired of being led down a garden path only to discover once it is too late that it is a weed garden. A vote in the primary for Rudy is a vote for surrender as Hillary will win. Rudy is the only repub that can lose to her!!

Inconsequential
That's what Pat Robertson has become.
You can't continually make idiotic statements and expect Believer's who are smart, rational, independent thinkers (well most of the time) to just rally around because Pat gives his support.

If anything, if I were Rudy, I would have walked away rather than being supported by the likes of Pat Robertson. He no longer carries much sway these days.

If anything, this shows how desperate Rudy is to gain the confidence of the Christian voters.

However, I truly feel this endorsement fell on deaf ears. Surprised ears nevertheless, but certainly deaf ears. Pat Robertson has sold out just to appear like he matters.

Sawmiller writes:
Far better that Conservatives set their own standards. Forget beating the Clintons. Look to the long term. Conservatives must establish themselves as an independent political party that must be courted by Democrats and Republicans. Only then can Conservatives have clout. Surely, the "W" administration has proved, time and again, that Conservatives have no clout in the Republican Party.

As much as I disagree with RG on many issues the idea of HC in the WH is unbearable. There is a saying in the Total Quality Management circles: "Don't let good enough be the enemy of perfect." In this case don't let perfect be the enemy of better. For all of you people pining for the second coming of Ronald Reagan give it up. He was the perfect man for the time. He did his job then moved on. But I look at this the same way I look at the war against islamic goons. If we loose the war then nothing else matters. If we hand the WH to HC along with a dem congress say goodby to many of your rights. On more than one occassion she has shown disdain for individual rights in favor of the collective. If she wins we will put the slow march to communism on the fast track and it will start with national healthcare.

I am John Doe.

The Next 700 Club Convention
Will be held in a PHONE BOOTH!

Yes, it's Clintons
and my question is: So what?

In what important respect is Giuliani different from Hillary Clinton? Oh, yeah. Giuliani promises to appoint strict constructionists to the judiciary. If you trust that promise, then I've got a bridge in Brooklyn I'll sell you. Here's a hint for all you conservative pragmatists out there: a man who openly flouts his wedding vows isn't going to be any more faithful to his campaign promises.

I've been reading most of the townhall.com posts on the GOP primary, and there's something I'm having difficulty understanding. Why all the agonizing over which principles to sacrifice for the sake of beating Hillary, when you can defeat her without compromising ANY your most deeply held beliefs?

The only candidate in the Republican field who can beat Clinton is Ron Paul. He can do it for the simple reason that, by flanking her left on the war issue, he will split her base. The only way Hillary would be able to hold on to most of her base would be to move back to the left on social and economic issues -- issues on which Republicans have always scored better with the voters.

And Ron Paul IS a conservative, a far more consistent conservative than any other Republican seeking the Presidency. He is the ONLY Republican whose record in public life has been one of consistent adherence to the Constitution. I just don't understand why all you townhall-ites don't get it.

freerider, yes Ron Paul is a conservativ
but he is a nutcase on several issues and does not have the gravitas to be President. He reminds me, and probably other too, of Ross Perot. Many good ideas wrapped up in a looney-tunes.

Hunter or Thompson are the closest we have to a Reaganite candidate.

Sawmiller
Hey, a Conservative Party... I like it. They have one in Canada, why couldn't we have one in the US? Heck, they even won the last election up there.

The majority of the country is conservative - if we ever nominate a true conservative that sticks to principle instead of pandering we'll have a conservative president. Conservative citizens will turn out to support a conservative nominee, they'll stay home otherwise.

Tadpole


Cannot come right out and say it.
__A large amount of the Christian coalition leadership cannot come out and say they support a liberal candidate, republican, or democrat. So they keep the mattress covering the lamp, has they support what is of the word they teach their congregation. The Word teaches the greatest commandment of all, "Love God, and your neighbor, as yourself", and the Christian congregations adamantly voice this message. This is where the rub of liberal politics, against Christian teaching, has formed strange bed partners. While they cannot come right out and support a candidate pro-choice, or pro-gay rights, they can put up with a little evil. This Christian leadership embraces liberal policies that will fix problems they should be personally dealing with.

what the front
the national inquirer has the largest circulation in print, but no one admits to reading it.I suspect that robertson falls into that category!
I've watched pat robertson, And so have most of you.There...it out in the open!
Next, we will hear that no one has heard of randi rhodes....
We have...
Witnessed by this site, we're political junkies--
None of this means that you give money-or blood; so stop putting up fronts!
stand up and be counted!

Rich L., on what issue
is Ron Paul a "nutcase"? Have you read any of his articles or position papers? Have you looked at any of his YouTube videos? I've watched most of the Republican debates, and he was the ONLY candidate making substantive statements on the issues. The rest only offered sound bites tailored for the audience they were addressing.

This is what Glenn Greenwald over at salon.com had to say about Ron Paul the day after the fund-raising blitz:

"Regardless of one's ideology, there is simply no denying certain attributes of Paul's campaign which are highly laudable. There have been few serious campaigns that are more substantive -- just purely focused on analyzing and solving the most vital political issues. There have been few candidates who more steadfastly avoid superficial gimmicks, cynical stunts, and manipulative tactics. There have been few candidates who espouse a more coherent, thoughtful, consistent ideology of politics, grounded in genuine convictions and crystal clear political values."

Of course, Greenwald is a liberal, and his article on Ron Paul generated a ton of negative emails from salon.com readers. But, if a liberal like Greenwald gets it, why can't conservatives?


Robertson does not
speak for all Christians any more than Jesse Jackson speaks for all black people.

It is the height of folly to assume that even the 900k viewers of Roberston's tv show will follow him down the path to support Rudy, let alone the 200+ million Americans that self-identify as Christians.

To be a Christian is to live a life based on God's Word and His principles. Do what is right and good things will happen.

Response to Roadkill58
First of all, change your name. "Roadkill" won't get you many friends.

For way too long, conservatives have accepted the criticism that we should "not let the perfect drive out the good." However, what we have experienced, especially with "W," is that "his good" drives out the perfect, the not-so-good, and the downright bad in favor of the disastrous. Did he not propose and support the utterly socialistic drug benefit for seniors? Is he not a champion of unlimited immigration from Mexico and parts South into the unforseeable future? Must I go on?

Conservatives in this country will not be heard until they create their own party. Then they can negotiate as equals with Democrats and Republcans.

Conservatives should be bold. We should promote the recriminalization of marriage. Adulterers would face felony convictions and jail time, as they did until 1970 or so. That would bring 2 out of 3 women into the Conservative Party.

Robertson's endorsement is irrelevant
Pat Robertson isn't going to sway anyone's vote who wasn't already leaning towards Giuliani. For people of faith, their choice of candidate is based on their own decision. And it's not what the candidate says so much as how they've lived it. Talk is cheap.

Which is why Mike Huckabee is my candidate.

Pat's Endorsement
I am not a "deeply religious" man! However, the thought of either Hillary OR Rudy in the Whitehouse scares the doowadly out of me.

I will NOT vote for a third party candidate. I did that, as did many conservatives, when it was "Ross for Boss", and the result was Bill Clinton.

I will NOT vote for someone like Ron Paul whose idea about national security is "I know the Indians are out there somewhere. We need to throw our guns away so we don't incite them, and we can hope they will decide to be friendly. Just in case,we should just circle the wagons and wait."

Mitt??? Too slick! Too Kerry! Too Hillary!

Thompson? Although I don't agree with some of his policies (open borders, etc), He IS the most consistent concerning illegal aliens, fighting terrorism, and other things that greatly concern me.

I WILL vote for Rudy - - ONLY if the race is between him and Hillary.

Yes indeedy.
Very well put. I'll have to think about this one.

A short note to TheEngineer:
TheEngineer writes: "So, what will you vote for next Nov? A future President Clinton, or a future President Giuliani?"

The answer is as simple as ABC - Anybody But Clinton...

Is?
Pragmatism is virtue. Hard to disagree, could someone give me a hand?

freerider
I have to disagree about Ron Paul being the only candidate to make substantive statements on issues during the debates - Mike Huckabee and Duncan Hunter articulated their solutions quite clearly when they had the chance to speak.

I'm taking a real hard look at Huckabee right now, the 'front runners' offer me nothing. Huckabee doesn't have to think about his position based on who he is talking to. He seems to know who he is and what he stands for.

One of the biggest issues he gets hit on here is how he handled illegal immigrants in Arkansas while governor. Get the real story from the bottom of this page -

http://www.mikehuckabee.com/index.cfm?FuseAction=Newsroom.A rticle&ID=82


Pragmatism may be virtue but
it is not principle. When you stick to your principles 99% of your decisions are already made.

No wonder everything seems so black and white to my Dad...

Pat Robertson
While I agree that Pat Robertson has made some outlandish statements, I believe we can all, as conservatives and evangelicals, agree that our nation is not as perfect as we would like it to be. Abortion notwithstanding, our nation is slowly turning into a cesspool.
Obviously there are some on here who only know what they read about Rev Robertson and don't know anything about him. Yes he is the founder of CBN. But he is also the founder and president of Regent University, one of the most respected business and law schools in the nation. CBN is also the parent of Operation Blessing. Anytime there is a natural disaster in this country and in the world, they are one of the first ones on the scene to administer aid and comfort. To say that 900,000 viewers a day is inconsequential has not noticed that MSNBC would die for those numbers.

Tadpole
I agree with you. I'm also looking at Gov Huckabee. I especially like his position on the FairTax. For those that oppose the FairTax, remember that paying federal taxes under this system would strictly be voluntary as you would actually have to buy something to be taxed. I think it would make people think hard about buying things they don't need.

tadpole, before embracing Huckabee,
check out Ilana Mercer's column in today's World Net Daily: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=5 8592

Ilana makes more sense than any other columnist in print today. I wish townhall.com would carry her column.

RetMSgt
Not just buy something, buy something NEW! This would be the best thing that ever happened to the poor as they could buy their clothing, cars, childrens clothes, ect. used and never pay the consumption tax. This is why I have been a huge supporter of the Fair Tax for over 3 years. I am concerned however that on alot of issues Huckabee is too much like Bush- which is why I will vote for Hunter in the primary provided he is still in the running.

I'm not a bit surprised
Robertson is just showing his true colors. A rich greedy dude that is used to working with dictators in those countries where he buys his diamonds and such. A man who hates freedom theology. He's nothing more than a cartoon preacher. I think someone should introduce him to GOD. The Truth shall set ye free...

freerider
Excellent article by Ilana. I knew Huckabee was basically a conserative poser but a crook too? Seems he has a lot in common w/the Clintons!

As far as Paul, I like most all of his positions and the fact that he is completly trustworthy but can't agree %100 with his stance on the purpose of our military.

Happy Veterans Day!

Dobson, Perkins, Robertson in a bind
Huckabee, McCain, Tompson, Tancredo, Hunter are long time conservatives, and Romney is a born again conservative. So why is there any talk of a third party candidate and why would Pat Robertson endorce the only non-social conservative in the bunch? Here are some of the reasons. They have overstated the singlemindedness of their coalition and overplayed their own influence on that coalition. Many evangelicals care as much about the poor, the environment, and their own economic interests as they do about abortion and gay rights. Many will support a Republican winner over loser who more closely mirror's their ideology.

The evangelical vote will likely be split between those who will only back a true social conservative and will likely stay home if none is nominated. Some will put the conservative before the social and vote for the Republican nominee and some will vote for Hillary because they benefited from the Clinton years and are totally turned off by Bush and his enablers. I would guess the numbers will be 25%, 60% and 15%. If that happends Hillary Clinton will be the next President.

catholic church and rudy
Rudy did not have anything to do with the inquisiton which killed jews; forced conversions

it was not Rudy who burned joan of arc

it was not rudy that burned G bruno for his beliefs

it was rudy that tried galieleo for heresy

it was not rudy that put out death warrant for luther

it was not rudy who wants to deny condoms to those in africa to cut down on aids

it was Rudy who was at the orgy of pope Alex Vi where the pope kept records of how many times a priest could make it with prostitutes at the party

That is enough

There is no long term
Conservatives on this site who are insisting that we abandon the Republican party for the moment in order to create a long-term strategy for conservatism, are not paying attention to the world we live in. This year, there IS no long term.

If Hillary Clinton, John Edwards, or Barak Obama win the Presidency, and the Democrats continue to hold congress, we will see the following happen in the next 8 years:

1) The US Supreme Court will have a 6-3 liberal majority that will last at least 40 years. This Court will fulfill the potential of the Warren Court, and leave us with judicial interpretations that make the US Constitution mean something similar to the Communist Manifesto.

2) The US Congress will surrender US sovereignty to the United Nations. UN troops will be stationed in US cities to "enforce election law" (e.g., guarantee Democrat victories at gunpoint.) US companies will be required to spend self-destructive amounts of capital on non-producing energy alternatives, rendering them unable to compete on the world market. The US economy will sink into insignificance. We'll see starvation in America for the first time in a century and a half.

3) Hate crimes legislation will become the national law of the land. Speech codes will be legislated and enforced. While declaring absolute freedom of religion, the government will jail Christians for teaching what Christianity believes, even if they only do it from inside Christian churches.

4) A gulag something like what the Soviets created will be created here, providing "treatment" for the politically unacceptable. Thousands will be "re-educated" using psychotropic drugs.

Prove a point this time, and the next point you'll be proving is whether you believe your principles are worth sacrificing your life for.

I'm not exaggerating, and I'm not kidding.

There is no long term this year.

The Question is Why?
I think Kathleen Parker has the idea of why this occurred by didn't really label it out in Black & White: Trying to be Nice, I guess. Robertson has whored himself out to Guiliani. He bought the story about the only GOP candidate to have a chance to win and beat Hillary is Guiliani. thinking that alot of Liberals and Independents who don't want Hillary will vote for Guiliani, because of Guiliani's Liberal views. One should be judged by their actions, not what they say. We should look seriously at Guiliani based upon his actions while a Mayor of NY. He attacked the First Admendment, violated Constitutionist Judges, and basically without listing alot of things, he appears more as a Liberal Democrat than as a Conservative Republican. We should have learned with George W. Bush. GW Bush isn't no conservative and that is what his problem is. He has violated his base time and time again attempting to work with the Demonrats who have no Honor. Guiliani is and will be a mistake as the GOP Nominee. If the GOP and Conservatives address the issues against Hillary or any other Demonratic contender, they will and should win in 2008, irregardless on who the Party selects. Hillary is too polarizing and if she wins the nomination, the GOP should go to the polls in droves and whoever is the GOP candidate will win. This Country is more Conservative then Liberal - If we don't allow the MSM and Demonrats to side step the real issues, which is what they always do. For a TRUE CONSERVATIVE, we out to force NEWT GINGRICH to step down from Americansolutions.com and run for President. Our Country needs Newt and he could accomplish more as POTUS. Don't worry about Newt's the baggage issue, Hillary has more baggage then anyone, however, no one calls her on it.

inkling_revival
We surely think alot. I keep preaching that the Demonrats are America's Greatest Threat and Enemy of Today. It is not a joke. Researching the Demonrats voting pattern over the last 30-40 years would closely mirror the votes that our Enemies would have cast if they were voting, and that is NO JOKE. Since 1970 we knew we had an energy risk; The Demonrats have kept us from drilling off-shore and in Alaska. The Demonrats have prevented no new Gas Processing Plants in over 30 years, no Nuclear Power Plants. What they have done is to place America at risk to blackmail from some two bit dictators that have OIL. In the Military, they defunded and destroyed Star Wars, that would have made Intercontinental Ballistic Missile threats obsolete. They, the Demonrats, have destroyed our Economy on every administration with high taxes, increased Government regulations, and have basically destroyed the Judicial Branch with their Liberal Judges and have eliminated all that we hold dear. Now, minorities, Illegals, Criminals, and Terrorist have more rights than Citizens. Our Forefathers fought, bled, and died fighting against Socialism and Communism, which only Oppresses the masses. These Traitors to American Ideals now Control Congress, the MSM, Academia, and most of the Judicial Branch as well. I don't believe we can take back America at the Ballot box. So I do support our Military along with Veterans, National Guard, and Citizens Militia, NRA, and every other True American in taking up our arms and restoring America to it's rightful heritage and the futures our Forefathers envisioned. God Bless America! By the Way, as an example, which Party has attacked both our First and Second Admendments regularly? - DEMONRATS.

inkling_revival, and so true.
__Calamity will follow with the election of any liberally bent politician. I am amazed at the amount Christians who will follow liberal ideology with such blindness. They embrace the fact this ideology removes their responsibility to fellow man. The worry is gone with the comforting notion, there's a government program out there, somewhere, that will deal with the need. The left has played the passion game well to increase their profit. I'm certainly happy that my life, my family, has lived, and prepared, for times of distress. Your predictions, if realized, would be a disaster for many, but my family, the real America, will come out on top.

inkling_revival
The problem I have with the scenario you put forth, Inkling, is that every single election I hear the same doom and gloom scenario of "If [insert Democrat name here] wins our country will be in shambles!".

Every presidential election this happens.

That just allows conservatives to continue being another party of big government as long as they are different on just a few issues with the Democrats. Why? Because scenarios are put forth by people such as you trying to scare people into voting for Republicans, the lesser of two very evil, horrible parties that love entitlements and big government.

I agree that if Hillary Clinton gets in office it will be terrible. It was terrible when Bill Clinton was in office. It's terrible now that George Bush is in office.

So please, tell me, how many more years will we be scared into voting for the lesser of two evils? I think the answer is...forever.

There's no way out, unless a great number of people abandon the two major parties and vote for someone that supports smaller government and the constitution.

Reserving my opinion
I actually prefer several of the more minor (and more conservative) candidates over Guiliani or Mitt Romney, but as Alaska does not have a primary and as a registered non-partisan I couldn't vote in it anyway, I will be reserving my opinion until closer to the general election.

It comes down to this for me. I am a born-again evangelical Christian and I don't really care who Pat Robertson endorses. He's not the pope, you know! He's just one voice in many and I probably won't even let my pastor influence my voet. I think my 14-year-old daughter is more savvy about politics than either of those two men of God. My first inclination is to vote for character (neither Romney nor Guliani impress me in that department) and hope the candidate is not faking that to get elected. Only if they have character can you trust their promises. (This is where my daughter comes in -- she KNEW Clinton was lying about not having sex with Monica -- she was a preschooler. THAT'S a good judge of character).

My second inclination is to recognize that no candidate will ever be perfect and that I might have to vote for some things I don't like in order to get some things I do. I think Guiliani lacks character on a million points, but Hilary lacks character on a billion points. So, if it comes down to it, I'll be voting for Guiliani. Since I don't a say in the primary, I'll be praying that the rest of the country puts forth an electable candidate with character. Take one look at Romney's Stepford wife and tell me -- do you really think he has character?

freeride
Obviously Ms Mercer is a big Ron Paul fan. What bothers me about her article is that she doesn't bother to tell you that only one of the ethics charges ever stuck.

She also uses way too perjorative terms for me to take at all seriously.

I keep hearing about quotes from other people about how Huckabee 'destroyed the conservative movement in Arkansas and left the Republican Party a shambles' yet fail to articulate exactly what that means or how he did it.

Bringing up Dukakis was just precious - nothing like trying to get people to project their feelings about one person on another.

No mention of his support for The Fairtax that would be one of the single greatest things that could happen to this country. It should suit the Libs b/c the people that buy more pay more - that's the 'evil rich'.

I am not defending Huckabee wrt immigration, however Ms Mercer should consider that a governor has different responsibility than a president. I'm not sure how a 'sheer fluke' causes someone to change their position, but I believe Huckabee means what he says regarding immigration.

After that it's a Ron Paul commercial... sorry freeride - I've done a little more homework than Ms Mercer is giving her readers credit for.

I'm not totally sold on Huckabee yet, but I like what I see so far... still checking.


Values Voters Have No Values
This is a perfect example of the right’s hypocrisy. They berate the left for Bush hatred but yet hate Hillary with so much venom they are willing to expose their lack of principles (which they never really had). Hillary has been quoted as early as 1992 and recently as a few days ago that abortion should be "safe, legal, and rare." Another fact: the national abortion rate decreased by 13% during President Clinton's first term and decreased an additional 5% during his second term. For more unctuous behavior on the right, note how Hillary has been maligned for sticking with her husband after his extra-marital affair(s). Should she have divorced him like most hypocritical right-wingers do? Of course, every study on the subject shows families that stay together use fewer governmental services and produce children that are less likely to have issues with law enforcement and drug abuse. Also, for those who are married, don’t most of us vow before God to stay married till “death do you part?” The sad sick right uses this against Hillary while forgiving it from the twice-divorced Rudy. Another example would be Sen. Vitter. Remember the once brash Wendy Vitter (Her comment about Clinton’s cheating was along the lines of her going Lorena Bobbitt on her spouse if he ever cheated on her. Well, he did, and with hooker no less) standing beside her husband, Sen. Vitter, making claims that he was still her best friend and she would stand behind him? Selective forgiveness is a common trait of a right wing false Christian. And for a true look at Rudy’s leadership before, during and after 9/11. watch the YouTube video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaCYEEO-58I.
Don't be so hateful that it blinds you to the truth.

inkling_revival
Would you vote for Hitler too?

Wayne
Pointing to a number of Christians that have failed in their faith does not equate to Christians have no values.

What it means is that people are flawed, Christians are people, therefore Christians are flawed.

Quit drawing meaningless conclusions.

What it really means is that, as Americans, we have a responsibility to investigate the candidates and support the one that we believe will support the policies that will make this country great again.

It's not hate - there's nothing Hillary has said that makes me believe she the country would be greater at the end of her term in the Oval Office. It's common sense.

IRetMSgt said,
(Referring to Robertson)

"But he is also the founder and president of Regent University, one of the most respected business and law schools in the nation."

You have got to be kidding!!! Regent University is a fourth-rate law school, and has been a joke among Law professors (I know, my brother-in-law is one) for years.

This is the school that gave us Monica Goodling, remember? The one who admitted openly that she had used the DOJ like a campaign headquarter.

Wayne
I think you have brought up a really curious point - I listened to Medved for awhile the other day foaming at the mouth about people who "have a pathological hatred of GWB" --

This from a man who made a fortune trashing Clinton and Hillary with every opportunity and lie he could summon up. Hating Bill was an entire industry for years, which included fulltime employment of lawyers and journalists whose only mandate was to bring him down regardless of whether they could find anything or not.

How quickly they forget.

Hi, Aurora
I had to drop off of our last exchange because my computer stops downloading threads when the number of posts goes over around 200.

Sometime I would like to hear about your conversion to born-again Christianity - I know this isn't the place but I am genuinely interested.

Hey freeride
I went over to Ms Mercer's site and posted some points that she obviously dispensed with... my posts were taken off her site.

Instead of engaging in honest debate or exchange of ideas, she simply took my posts off of her site.

If you aren't easily ridiculed or a Ron Paul convert don't bother posting - she'll just take it down. That's pretty weak in my opinion.

Bring me somebody that is a bit more objective and will support their claims with facts next time instead of a bunch of name calling or quotes from other people.

God's choice
According to scripture it is Almighty God who brings world leaders to power. If Hillary becomes President it will be an evidence of God's judgment on America, and probably the end of a once great, great nation.

tadpole
Thanks for your sane input to this discussion.

Who are we, really?
You know, it seems pretty clear to me: NO Hillary.

Don't like RG, Romney, Paul, McCain, and most of the others in the field; sadly, Thompson hasn't been so shiny on important issues. [sigh]

BUT: there's Hunter and Huckabee (not necessarily in that order, but what a team they'd make!).

What if all of us who claim to be true conservatives decided to throw our weight vocally and visibly behind these two worthy candidates?

If we don't want the others, which seems pretty much to be the consensus, then LET'S!!

What is up with all our dithering?!

If we know the quantitative and qualitative measure of the candidates RG, Romney, McCain, etc., and Hillary, but don't factor in the really obviously good/better choices, Huckabee and Hunter, what in the world are we doing?!

These two candidates are Reagan spelled with an H. They're only "unelectable" if we allow them to be. Remember what we accomplished against that stupid immigration package?

What's the difference here? If we could do it for a piece of legislation, surely we can do it for the most important executive office in the world!

Yah?

reply to Aurorawatcher
Meoww! My, my aren't we being catty here? I have in mind your final sentence: "Take one look at Romney's Stepford wife and tell me -- do you really think he has character? "

The last time I looked, Republicans were SUPPOSED to have Stepford wives. I guess you didn't get the memo on this from the RNC. Romney's wife looks like a Republican candidate's wife is supposed to look: properly dressed, not a hair out of place, gazing worshipfully at her husband. What's wrong with that?

Don't tell us that you want some sort of unconventional, nontraditional woman to be the wife of a serious candidate. Are you sure you're a Republican?

mashcrom
said it first and best.
Robertson jumped the gun. A rash political ploy designed to put himself in a position of access to power. He should have waited until the nominee was picked and then jubilantly endorsed that candidate.
If his followers don't see this a crass they're deserving of the low opinion they may have to endure of themselves and their so called leader, Robertson.
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