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Wednesday, November 07, 2007
Kathleen Parker :: Townhall.com Columnist
Illegal License
by Kathleen Parker
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WASHINGTON -- When Hillary Clinton fumbled a recent debate question about New York's plan to grant driver's licenses to illegal immigrants, she helped clarify at least one issue that keeps getting muddied: Illegal immigrants are illegal.

Why, then, are we granting them driver's licenses?

Thus far, eight states allow illegal immigrants to receive licenses or permits (and 10 states offer in-state tuition) -- all in the spirit of making America a better place.

But we don't want to encourage immigrants to come here illegally.

Gotcha.

The illegal immigrant problem is huge, obviously, and there's no single solution. But there is one word that would get the ball rolling in the right direction and win a lot of voters' hearts: disincentivize. Stop making it so attractive to slip through, over and under the border.

As long as we offer jobs, medical treatment, driver's licenses and in-state tuition to those who come here illegally, why would any right-thinking, would-be immigrant take a number and wait his turn? Why not just throw in the Dallas Cowboys cheerleaders and free tequila while we're at it?

Arguments favoring services and privileges for illegal immigrants always point to the broader benefits to society. Healthy immigrants mean a healthier America; an educated populace means fewer jobless dependents; legal drivers are more responsible because, allegedly, they'll also buy insurance and stick around when they have an accident.

The latter seems unconvincing given that illegal immigrants, by definition, tend not to think legally. In any case, by the same logic, we might also say that amnesty is good for the country because then everyone would be legal. Rather than fix something, we simply accommodate circumstances. As in: Kids are having sex anyway, so we'll just give them condoms.

Advocates for licensing also argue that illegal immigrants can't get jobs without a driver's license. Do I hear bingo? Isn't that the point?

On the one hand, we argue that employers should be penalized for hiring illegal immigrants; on the other, we insist that the immigrants need driver's licenses because employers demand them. I'm beginning to see how Clinton got so tangled up. You cannot argue rationally in defense of the irrational.

The Monday morning quarterback is, of course, a brilliant seer and the stands are filled with hindsight prophets this week. Here's one more shoulda for the pile-on. When NBC's Tim Russert asked why she thought New York Gov. Eliot Spitzer's proposal to give illegal immigrants driver's licenses made sense, Clinton should have simply said:

"It makes sense for states to seek solutions given the federal government's failure to reform immigration, but I'm not 100 percent satisfied with the licensing plan. Unfortunately, Tim, I'll need more than 30 seconds to outline my concerns."

Or something to that effect. Instead, Clinton called for immigration reform. It's easy to say we need reform. Everybody agrees with that. It's much harder to say we need to stop rewarding "illegal."

Clinton even refused to use the term "illegal immigrant," preferring the blander "undocumented worker," as though people who cross our border illegally are just like the rest of us except for those darned documents. They may be nice, hard-working people, but they're not like other immigrants who, having come here legally, have demonstrated a commitment to the rule of law and fairness.

Surely, we can love our neighbors and be a pro-immigrant nation without granting de facto citizenship to illegal immigrants through a menu of rights and privileges. As is, all that's missing is the oath -- and any meaning attached to it.

Beyond principle, there are practical reasons for denying licenses to illegal immigrants. As some reformers have pointed out, the driver's license is more than a permit to drive. It's a nationally recognized ID that implies citizenship, and is the most coveted "breeder document" of terrorists because it allows them access to all the other things they need to blend in -- jobs, housing, bank accounts -- as well as access to commercial airplanes and rental cars.

Many states still don't verify applicants' identities. In May 2001, when Tennessee dropped its requirement that applicants supply a Social Security number, tens of thousands of illegal immigrants applied for licenses, according to the Federation for American Immigration Reform.

There may be no way to solve every aspect of the immigration problem. Certainly, no serious person thinks we can round up 12 million people and deport them. But it would be refreshing if we began to take seriously what it means to be a citizen and stop making it so attractive to be a lawbreaker. That would make sense.

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About The Author
Kathleen Parker is a syndicated columnist with the Washington Post Writers Group.
 
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Popular Articles By Parker

get on the virtual bus or get in...
RE: no serious person thinks we can round up 12 million people and deport them

Nor would any serious person think we could build a ladder to the moon. We rather reach the moon with various rocket ships. So to when deporting 20 million illegal Mexicans. We do not build a 20 million passenger bus. We rather build a virtual bus that will enable 20 million Mexicans to deport themselves and if after 6 months they have not they will spend up to 10 years in our Alaskan tent refugee centers then sent to North Korea (not an easy task to reenter America from there). Just because they are here does not mean they must remain here.

You People Are Just Mean
You want to turn America into one big gated community. Gotta keep out the riffraff. Gotta keep the culture pure. Blah blah blah. We have to understand that America isn't perfect and that the best way to fix our problems is to import a bunch of people that are very unhappy with the disfunctional societies in which they are living and are willing to break our laws to facilitate that importation. If we can get enough people here from disfunctional societies then our society will work better. At least that is what the politicians tell me.

deporting illegals
RE: no serious person thinks we can round up 12 million people and deport them

Bit_boy was right but I believe we can physically deport 12 million illegals. If we can find any dad who is 100 dollars late on his child support and toss him in jail or track down any tax payer who forgot a line in his tax return and charge them interest, why should it be so hard to find and deport illegal aliens? The simple answer it would be physically hard to deport the illegals but possible, unfortunately it would take political courage to do such a thing. When is the last time the word courage and the American political system been seriously used in a sentence?

Lefties, where are your comments?
Miss Parker issues a challenge you can't refuse. She states one cannot argue rationally in defense of the irrational. You haven't got a hair on your bottom if you let that one go by. Hillary is leading the way, followed by an army of cohorts from left and right. I am waiting for information to convince me that illegal aliens are good for this country. Show me how we need more uneducated unskilled lawbreakers. Tell me specifically what illegal aliens can do that legal aliens on a monitored work program can not do. Tell me why an underground economy that exports only dollars helps us out. We need to end this devisiveness and unite the country, so convince me to join you.

Immigration?

This is a great video, all should watch! Our immigration policy hurts us and third world countries!

http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/immigration




Repeating my call to Canadians
As I posted in response to Buckley:

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/WilliamFBuckley/2007/11/ 03/illegalizing_illegals?page=full&comments=true

2007/11/03 @ 15:26

I repeat call upon Canucks present in temp (student, worker, dependent-of-tempworker) status in US, and those outside US considering coming in on such status to help your American neighbours protest the travesty of licence-issue to illegal immigrants (while YOU, if you have a US State licence, have to renew it each year***) by retaining (and renewing so long as you are in US holding ANY temp status, including EAD) your Canuck Provincial one.

As I noted, this violates ABSOLUTELY NO US laws (due to a loophole in US state laws allowing foreigners on temp status to retain their foreign licence; if you're stopped by a traffic cop, it is mandatory that you remind them of this loophole as it renders issuance of "document offence" by the cop illegal--note that it WILL tick-off the cop).


***Specifically for TN-1's and TD's (which a significant percentage of temp-status Canucks hold); post 9-11, the expiry date of the licence is the same as the expiry of the visa/status. TN-1 and its dependent derivative TD are valid for a max of 1 year.

the next step in Congress...
...to save America will be the SAVE Act (Secure America with Verification and Enforcement). The SAVE Act would eventually require every employee in America to go through the E-Verify system. This internet system provides employers with an inexpensive, quick, and accurate way to verify that employees are not illegal aliens. Watch for it and support people in Congress who support it as it progresses. Its goals are supported by numbersusa, the leading group trying to save America from the ILLEGAL invasion:

http://www.numbersusa.com/index

The SAVE Act by Rep. Heath Shuler (D-N.C.) has gotten another big boost with the co-sponsorship of Rep. Tom Tancredo (R-Colo.) The courageous Democrats pushing the SAVE Act are standing up to their pro-amnesty national Party leadership and Presidential candidates. Most of the Democrats who are likely to be in competitive races next year are getting behind this bill. The courageous Republicans who are signing onto the SAVE Act are setting aside partisan maneuvering for next year's elections. These Republicans who are serious about actually solving the illegal immigration problem know that nothing is going to get better soon unless they can find a lot of Democrats who are willing to join in the fight. Heath Shuler's SAVE Act is the best opportunity in a very long time for that to happen.

Can't or Won't
The IRS can find anyone who owes the government a nickle and and make them pay a dollar. Are we to believe that our government cannot find 12-20 million people- who are supposedly going to work every day doing jobs that Americans will not do, therefor not living in the shadows- and deport them? They don't want to do it; they are cowards and need the illegal vote; citizens won't vote for them.

I DONT CARE
what billary calls it, it is, and they still are ILLEGAL. At what price is it too expensive to ship them home? How much are we paying them now to stay? FREE medical, food stamps, and a host of other expenses and to say we can not afford it is well….ANOTHER TRUCKLOAD OF BULLSHITT!

If we can’t have HOME SECURITY first, the rest just don’t matter!
HUNTER /Tancredo 2008!
http://www.gohunter08.com

willful stupidity

for those who make no distinction between legal and illegal immigration, all things are possible.

that they can do it without an ounce of conscience is a testament to the power of moral relativism.

Lamocrat Revolt???
The 06 election is going to be interesting in more ways than one. The Lamocrats insist on blowing the amnesty horn, even with public sentiment running strongly against it. Currently the strongest support being given to the illegals is via the ACLU and the liberal courts that they manage to shop cases to. But as I said, the Lames haven’t given up yet. Those that are in the supposed “safe” districts who support amnesty will be tested in 08. That is the ultimate question, when added to a few other negatives that voters perceive in their Lamocrat representative to congress, will it tilt the balance?

It looks like Hillary’s funble the other day is costing her against Obama. As the going gets tougher, will she get going?

Pardon, 06 should be
08.

TruLib: I hear ya! :-) :-)
.

Teaching Illegals
My thoughts are, it makes more sense to refuse illegals to be freeloading in our country,why would they not want to illegally come into our country, also (no Licenses). Instead of building a fence, and paying to guard our boarders, which must be expensive, we could build unemployment buildings, clinics, etc. along the boarders, and teach them how to help their own country. This would also be an encouragement to us Americans that work and follow the rules that makes this Country. We need God back in our schools, back in our beliefs. and back in our country. If we do not speak (our feelings) we will destroy our children, and our country. Our Congress and Senators need our help and ideas, before our country is destroyed. Please help if you have any.

Teaching Illegals
My thoughts are, it makes more sense to refuse illegals to be freeloading in our country,why would they not want to illegally come into our country, also (no Licenses). Instead of building a fence, and paying to guard our boarders, which must be expensive, we could build unemployment buildings, clinics, etc. along the boarders, and teach them how to help their own country. This would also be an encouragement to us Americans that work and follow the rules that makes this Country. We need God back in our schools, back in our beliefs. and back in our country. If we do not speak (our feelings) we will destroy our children, and our country. Our Congress and Senators need our help and ideas, before our country is destroyed. Please help if you have any.

Identification
Isn't it about identification? If somebody smashes into my car, I would like to know his name. Hopefully I would like him even to have insurance. As long he is driving illegally, he remains John Doe, no name and no insurance. And I remain screwed. After he has destroyed my car and perhaps killed my passenger, he may well be able to scamper back into the shadows. Hit & run used to be rare; now it's usual. My car will not be any less smashed-up, and my neck will not be any less whiplashed, just because the driver of the offending car was an illegal immigrant. Whatever his status, if his physical body is here, I want some kind of accountability. Whether this would lead to his deportation is another question.

Vic writes:
It looks like Hillary’s funble the other day is costing her against Obama. As the going gets tougher, will she get going?


Lets hope she is like the energizer bunny, keeps going and going and going and going and going and going and going and going and going and going and going and going and going and going and.........

If we can’t have HOME SECURITY first, the rest just don’t matter!
HUNTER /Tancredo 2008!
http://www.gohunter08.com



It's about voting numb ers!
The main reason ,and only reasons Dems are pushing for illegal immigrants be granted drivers licenses is so they can sign up to vote.

If the dems push this through, who do you think all those illegals are going to vote for?

Politicians are after power, so they are after votes, willing to push the constitution aside, the laws of the land aside just to get some votes.

Be leery of these politicians, if they are willing to push so many things aside for a vote, do you not believe they will push America aside for more power?

Surely they will. And that is very dangerous.

lilly
I guess that's what you purchase uninsured motorist for. You insure will cover your damages. It's the insurance companies problem to find them.

Have you ever thought about sending them back home by cutting off there benifits for starters.

Perhaps your insurance rates might go down.

Lilly
You forget, just because they have a licence, doesn't mean they gave their real name, address or My social security number.(or yours for that matter!) All these licences are about is registering to vote. Nothing more, nothing less! Given the situation, the best answer is to close off the border then cut off all enticements and let them self deport for awhile then phisically deport everyone you can locate. I'm sure the rest will be gone once they see that we mean buisiness. It can be done.

Close the border before the country is in ruin.
HUNTER/TANCREDO "08"

A further note
As I stated, my call to Canadians to hold on to their Canadian licences violates ABSOLUTELY NO US LAWS. Of course, I didn't say anything about CANADIAN laws--LOL.

How does giving an illegal invader . .

The argument I hear libtards use is that it will bring the illegal invader out of the shadows. If we permit the illegal invader to obtain a license, we will be safer on the roads with licensed, insured, drivers. Does that mean that those dangerous drivers who are gifted with drivers licenses will be miraculously converted to safe drivers? (Drivers schools will be decimated) Insurance companies rely on past driving record, credit reports and other documentation to determine rates for drivers, no records and you pay extortionate rates. Are the dhimmicrats so naive that they think they can convince thinking people the illegal invaders are going to obtain expensive insurance?

I for one do not want the illegal invader out of the shadows (I want him out of the US) Taking the illegal invader out of the shadows only creates a vacancy in the shadows for another illegal invader to fill. Then we have double the problem, an illegal invader with a drivers license and no insurance and a second illegal invader in the shadows with no license and no insurance.

.

.

STOP the Fair Tax SCHEME

The FairTax Scheme is a double tax on the savings of the citizens of the US. Ask Rep Linder (sponsor of the bill) why income (savings/investments/retirements/inheritances/home equity) taxed under the income tax system is not excluded from a double taxation at the point of sale consumption tax. You’ll get a libtard, chillary, double speak non-answer.

Michael Brown writes:
If the dems push this through, who do you think all those illegals are going to vote for?

I dunno Michael, I could see a lot of them voting for the likes of peso george, peso dick lugar, peso McQuack, peso rudy, peso mitt, and a host of other RINO’s that want to let them in free of charge or fees of any kind!

If we can’t have HOME SECURITY first, the rest just don’t matter!
HUNTER /Tancredo 2008!
http://www.gohunter08.com



One Whooper Please!
The thinking of the average American has gone south (no pun intended).

This reminds me of dealing with a battered spouse problem.

Instead of dealing with the root of the problem we keep putting bandaids on it and it never goes away.

People give more attention to buying there next car than they do to choosing a spouse, then they find out that they married someone totally irresponsible and abusive.

What do we do?
Advise them to get out of there abusive relationship and provide services for them for years to come.

I am not making light of an abusive relationship, I’m only pointing out that people don’t think before they get into the mess they’re in.

Mexico has been treating there people like peasants for centuries. Mexico is not a 3rd world country. Mexico has the ability and resources to be a developed country.
The government has chosen to keep there class distinctions, thereby perpetuating the plight of there people.

The US should not be taking care of Mexico’s problems.

CONTINUED

One Whooper Please!

Every criticism has been a legitimate one concerning illegal immigration.
The solutions are simple and effective.

The US should have put pressure on Mexico long ago to handle there own problem, but the US is as greedy as Mexico.
We need this cheap peasant labor. I can’t believe that the government really wants to educate them and ruin a good thing. Where are we going to get our cheap labor?
I guess our governments plan is to empty out Mexico’s population.
Where is Mexico going to get its cheap labor?
I guess that we are working our way into an international crisis.

We need to deal with illegal immigration. The number one lie in this whole equation is that we need cheap labor. Cheap labor! By who’s definition? How much would these illegal’s be making if you added up the benefit package.

If we want to jail someone for the big lie to the American people, find the one’s who have been telling us that we need can’t live without this cheap labor.

We are bigger fools than I thought if we buy that whooper.

can't deport 12 million?
Really? Hmm... let's see..how many passengers are flown around by US airlines on any given day? How many in a month? I bet it's a much larger number than 12 million? Now imagine a fleet of full one-way airliners heading south each and every day. For as long as it takes. Get after the problem with seriousness and it will be done in a couple of years. Fact is, where there's a will, there's a way. But through a perverse, misplaced, self-inflicted national guilt complex, America has lost its confidence in itself and with that nearly all its will to do anything hard and important.


It's a game
Jorge and his congresturd buddies are playing a dangerous game. They want any/all mexicans in here so that the transistion to the north american union will be an unstoppable freight train. In addition to that, the dummycrats part of which are working with Jorge on the NAU want the illegals to vote legally or illegally for the ldummycrat party.Can ANYBODY see an agenda here. Sooner or later it is going to pi** off enough REAL Americans that the shooting/civil war will erupt. This is already happening in some of the border cities and rural ranches along the border.
Arm yourselves AMERICA!

Re. The Illegal Immigrant Situation:
The following may be a simplistic "solution" but, in the absence of any other, I offer it anyway. So here goes: Why can't we tally up the various costs to our various levels of government that the illegals have caused? Items such as schools, health care, welfare benefits, etc. come to mind. Then present this bill to the government of Mexico and say, "Pay it" (please). And be serious about it. Insist on being compensated for expenses incurred by THEIR citizens. Think that might get their attention? One wagers that it would. And, let us note that they have the means to pay. We know they are earning lots of cash from oil sales. But perhaps we could blend the payment scheme: part cash, part oil. Helps our trade deficit picture, as well as the dollar. The feasibility of this tactic notwithstanding, I believe it is necessary to put the onus where it belongs in the first place: the Government of Mexico. It is this government's erroneous policies that have caused the illegals to conclude that they have no other choice other than to come here. Now I ask you, O readers of TH, why can't this work?

I'm for the LAW but be practical
This is just political BS to F Hillary. Yea she flubbed her debate & waffled; SHAME ON YOU.

This is a real problem, which should not be politicized. If a D.L. gets an illegal documented ONLY for driving and getting insurance, I'm OK with that.

Rep. Heath Shuler (D-NC) on ‘Hardball’ w/ Chris Matthews discussed the new bill introduced in Congress yesterday to get tough w/ employers. It’ll have a central system that’s free to employers to check status, so liability will be off the employer. It's a bi-partisan bill & IT WILL FAIL. WHY?

WRITE YOUR CONGRESSMAN AND SENATOR.

IF WE STOP THE MAGNET WE STOP THE FLOW; they will go home. Stop the jobs & provide bus or plane flts back to wherever, the problem will go away, but 15 million illegals will not leave tomorrow. This problem took 30 years to make and IT WILL TAKE 60 YEARS TO FIX!!! People want an instant fix.

Lets be reasonable. Lets start enforcing the law in small steps and get bills like the above passed.


Business WANTS cheap labor & people who will show up to do the "dirty jobs". BOTH parties want votes from pro-immigration/open boarder folks, even though MOST Americans want the situation to be under control. Remember, THERE'S A LOT OF LEGAL HISPANICS IN THE USA, WAY MORE THAN illegal. Many of whom are sympathetic.


We need "Legal WORKERS" hired on contract from ALL around the world. Rich Mideast countries like Bahrain, Dubai and Kuwait do it, hiring people on contract all over to meet their needs.

I know people want to make ALL illegals total fugitives; hunt them down & deport them. Be reasonable & have compassion. With cooperation of Gov & business, turning a blind EYE for +30 years, we let this happen gladly.

Regarding illegal gang bangers, criminals, drug users & DWI'ers, GONE, OUT, deport yesterday. We still need to make the border tighter to keep creeps from getting back in.

CarolB
Two things. What makes everyone think that they will get insurance once they get drivers' licenses? And how do you know they will even vote at all?

Jet Pilot
How do you figure this will make them get insurance? Even in the states where insurance is required, like Ohio, there are people in accidents every day that don't have insurance. This program doesn't even guarantee they will give their real name, how is it going to hold them financially liable? Don't be deluded guy.

Close the borders before the country is in ruin.
HUNTER/TANCREDO "08"

NEVER!
I CANNOT be convinced that the legislators in the US will NEVER properly solve the illegal immigration problem. There are several problems facing the US that WE THE PEOPLE need to decide. Congress turds have WAY too many special interests that they are enslaved to or are owned by to decide this. Decisions on illegal immigration, North American Union, LOST treaty putting the Useless Nations in charge of the world. This can only be properly decided by WE THE PEOPLE. We need a mechanisim for a national vote/referendum. Put a real Democratic process in place. LET US VOTE ON IT! !

darn it.
Should be...
I CANNOT be convinced that the legislators in the US will EVER properly solve the immigration problem.

illegals and motor-voter laws

People are missing the MAJOR reason why illegals shouldn't get driver's licenses.

Ever hear of motor-voter? Here in Oregon---which freely admits it issues drivers licenses to illegals---we have motor-voter. When you sign up for your license, you get to register to vote at the same time. Oh, by the way, did I tell you that in Oregon we don't have polling places? All of our voting is done strictly by mail. Talk about the perfect storm!

When you have drivers licenses issued to illegals, and you have motor-voter, you have vote fraud. Maybe you're okay with illegals voting on your governor, your senators.

I'm not...

INVALIDATE! ! !
Where is the aclu (small letters intended) on this. Technically, the Oregon situation should be something they should jump on.. But, since the reality of the situation is that the illegals voting fits their anti American agenda perfectly. I would think that any national voters rights groups would jump all over this and INVALIDATE any election where it could be proved that any ILLEGAL cast a vote. I mean "hanging chads" vs NON CITIZENS casting votes.....NO BRAINER! Verify citizenship before voting.

carol
I can't believe. Stupid is ,as stupid does.

Stupid , Stupid, Stupid.

If I were you guys, I would find out who did this to you and liberate them from a job in your government.

Good point & who would vote?
Carol B. writes: Wed 9:42 AM
>"Two things. What makes everyone think that
>they will get insurance once they get drivers'
>licenses? And how do you know they will even
>vote at all?"

Many illegals won't get a DL, because they don't want to be on the radar, especially if its NOT a FULL Federal ID. 7 states already give DL's to illegals. Pro-illegal groups got angry these DL's where second/third tier NO FED ID, so their motive is no doubt to get de-facto ID & roots: bank accounts, jobs, ability to fly and even voting. 9/11 and security comes up, which is fair.


Insurance. How do we know? We don't. That should be requirement, insurance, especially for illegals. There have been too many highway slaughters of innocent men, woman and youth by drunk illegals. There could be proof, verification, laws & penalties placed on illegals with DL's to assure insurance is obtained & maintained, but that will NOT HAPPEN. If that was done, it would be goodness.

Illegals voting? DL could be used to get voting rights? A central system for employer's, states and voter registrars to determine citizenship is needed. The NO FED ID across the document should make it not valid for anything but driving. May be I'm naive.

BOTH PARTIES NEED TO WORK TOGETHER AND HAVE ONE VOICE AND NOT PANDER OR ATTACK EACH OTHER OVER IMMAGRATION. They NEED TO LISTEN TO THE PEOPLE.

75% of the PEOPLE WANT TO GET THIS UNDER CONTROL AND MOST DON'T WANT DL'S TO illegals. However about 75% want out of Iraq and the Gov is ignoring that as well. WHATS WRONG WITH GOV?

Hillary is clearly maneuvering for votes from pro-illegal voters while trying NOT to lose independents such as myself. The problem is the see no evil hear no evil is not working. Frankly many states already give DLs to illegals.

GyroTyro
Also as we all know, we get to help pay for the wrecks by other "drivers"

If we can’t have HOME SECURITY first, the rest just don’t matter!
HUNTER /Tancredo 2008!
http://www.gohunter08.com

Recycling old anti-immigration rhetoric
Kathleen Parker recycles old immigration rhetoric.

She is writes: "The illegal immigrant problem is huge, obviously, and there's no single solution." Americans, not illegal immigrants made that problem so big, by voting in immigration laws limiting legal immigration much below the level of the foreign labor that economy needs. By increasing quotas of legal immigration, the problem would go away. Therefore, there is a single solution.

Why Ms. Parker does not see the obvious?

The Freedom of Migration Act proposal outlines details of this concept, http://www.henrykkowalczyk.com/immigration.htm .

Henryk A. Kowalczyk
http://www.henrykkowalczyk.com

illegals and licenses
its all about the rule of law. It is weekly that illegals are involved with hit and run accidents. They drive but without licenses and insurance. Meanwhile lawful citizens suffer property damage, physical harm or deaths from these illegals. Society again pays as these illegals flaunt our rules and our laws. They continue to migrate from that third world toliet south of the border. They refuse to learn our language and assimilate. There is this constant mumbling that somehow they are entitled to reclaim calif. and other parts of the southwest. And meanwhile the bledding heartt libs keep telling the rest of his these functionally illiterate non english speaking parasites continue to steal our social services and act as though we owe them continued free lunches

Y ES, WE CAN!
I'VE HEARD MANY SAY, "WE CAN'T DEPORT 13 MILLION PEOPLE." HOW ABOUT 20-30? i THINK THAT WOULD BE CLOSER TO THE TRUE NUMBER. I'M CONVINCED THERE ARE 13 MILLION IN MY CITY ALONE!
I SAY,"YES, WE CAN." GET THAT FENCE UP AND LINE IT WITH MILITARY. THAT WOULD STOP THE INWARD FLOW. HEAVILY FINE EMPLOYERS WHO EVER THINK ABOUT HIRING ILLEGALS. RESTORE THE 14TH AMENDMENT TO ITS ORIGINS PURPOSE AND STOP ALL BENEFITS. THERE! CASE CLOSED.tHEY'RE GONE.

HAVE WE BECOME A CAN'T DO COUNTRY? I'M WAITING FOR A LEADER WHO WILL SAY, "yES, WE CAN" RID OUR COUNTRY OF ILLEGAL ALIENS. tHEN, WE WILL BE ABLE TO DISCUSS A GUEST-WORKER PLAN.

hak, a very simple way.
__The Americans illegally employing, and housing, them can stand up and act like Americans. Sponser, and pay the application processing fees to help these people become legal residence. Of coarse that would possibly be asking to much of those thieves robbing America for their own self-love!

hak
Yea, hak way to go blame it on America. Yep, we are all worthless. we all ought to be killed. Would that make you happy. Of course your spouse parents and children would have to be killed also. Would that make you happy??????


Graham
stabbed in the back by his amnesty buddies:

http://www.thestate.com/local/story/222486.html

When The President Said,
"It would be impossible to round up and deport 12 Million undocumented workers..." or something to that effect, when he said that he was, in fact, stating that he was too incompetent to handle the job of President of the United States.

Any time someone tells you a job is too tough for them to handle, they are telling you they won't even try and you should find someone who WILL try.

If someone tells you they cannot handle the job, they should not be on the payroll to do that job.

Illegal aliens are lawbreakers. They broke the law when they entered the United States illegally. They broke the law when they used forged/stolen documents to get a job.

Any politician who wants to give these criminals drivers' licenses and/or citizenship has no respect for our laws and does not have the best interests of American Citizens at heart.

motor-voter fraud
Carol writes - "When you have drivers licenses issued to illegals, and you have motor-voter, you have vote fraud. Maybe you're okay with illegals voting on your governor, your senators."

Yes, you are correct about motor-voter fraud. That's the real reason liberals are pushing licenses for illegals. They see the handwritting on the wall. More people are calling for ID requirements to vote, so these liberals believe they can circumvent that effort by issuing licenses for ID purposes (just try suggesting that the licenses for illegal be marked as "resident alien/non-voter", and they'll suddenly have a crisis over "labling people").

IMHO, the ultimate irony will be that once enough illegals have voting power, the Democratic Party will no longer have reign over them. They will simply form their new La Raza Party, and cripple the Dems who though they were gaining those votes.

Note - La Raza (the race) surely indicates that they see themselves as a distict race, not a part of American society - and a bunch of rich white liberal elites (aka Democrats) aren't part of la raza.

Liz it's a can't do ideology!
__Liberal left America "can't do" anything because they are on their own. This Republic is of the people united to meet the needs of community, state, and nation. The can do principles of a society building on the societies strengths, and increasing the strengths of individuals of the society. Can't do that with the liberal ideology that takes from the strengths for individual passions, and never returns a dime. Can't do that, because its prosperity depends on the gift, not the giving.

Even if
Even if the Supreme Court decision of Plyler v. Doe was overturned and illegal alien children could be barred from US public schools, even if no medical care was offered, etc etc, they would still come as long as there were jobs and since the US rarely does any on-site enforcement, employers are free to hire illegals at will and even if you wanted to hire only legal workers, since there is no real national ID card used in the US and other documents are easily obtained, it is impossible for an employer to really know and if you fired someone because you thought they were illegal, you'd probably have a DOJ civil rights investigation on your hands.

While giving a driver's license to illegals are a bad idea because it serves in many cases as a de facto national ID card, illegals are going to drive--license or not.


Forget "out of the shadows"
This lame plan of Spitzer's -- which is contrary to more than 70% of New York voters' wishes -- has nothing to do with: 1) Bringing illegals out of the shadows; 2) Making it safer to drive on the roads because we will be able to identify who is driving the other car; 3) Lowering insurance costs, because we all know that people who remain in this country illegal are often using phony documentation and are never going to spring for insurance, just like they are never going to pursue the customary path to legalization.

This is about garnering a whopper collection of voters who will then vote Democratic. And, corporate America (heartily supported by both parties) is in favor because it retains a cheap labor supply. Some states make it easy, like Oregon which is written about by Carol in the comments. In other states, it just means checking off a box at voter registration. Then -- these illegals can not only vote. They can buy guns too.

I suspect that if somehow -- magically -- tomorrow, all illegals were able legally to DEMAND $12 to $15 an hour for every hour of dishwashing, fruit picking and roofing, American employers wouldn't think they were valuable at all, and both parties would be pitching in to buy busses to deport them. It is, has been and always will be about cheap labor for corporation and a huge voting block for Democrats.

Doubters
I can't believe you all. You think that the undocumented workers residing in America would not purchase auto insurance as is required by law. Those are decent hard working people that pay strict attention to all American laws, right? Right.

A few other things
Expound Truth:

Americans are acting like Americans--it's the money. Remember UPS still having their opening to China ceremony in China as the EP-3 Orion crew remainded "hostage" in Lingshui, Hainan province back in 2001?

Americans hire landscappers, funiture movers, tree cutters, people to fix their roofs, cook their meals, clean their tables, make their beds, and on and on. And it's a don't ask don't tell situation. I didn't know he was an illegal alien (because I didn't ask him and I didn't want him to tell me either).

Americans rant and rave about illegal aliens but it is not unlike Shakepere's line of "me think she doth protest too much."

If Americans are so concerned about illegal aliens--stop hiring them and stop doing business with people that do. The jobs will dry up and the problem ends, but we both know this is going to happen.

Illegals voting in elections does happen, but it is not this huge problem. Few if any elections (perhaps Dornan in 1996--but an investigation showed only 624 votes were cast by non-US citizens in the race and New Mexico in the 2000 presidential election) are decided by non-citizens, legal or not, voting. The percentages are so low it's not even worth talking about.


Yesterday
The democrat Senate stripped 2 billion dollars out of the homeland security fund ,that was for our border security. It was for our fence, etc.
The republicans are trying to get them to put it back in today.

Guess out president is happy now.

Yeah, Akagi,
You just keep on believing that self-delusional
claptrap you're trying to foist on the rest of us. It may be so low that it's not worth talking about to YOU, but as for me, I'd rather see something to staunch that leak in the dike.
Even just one illegal vote is too much.

Immigration reform
The column stated, "It's easy to say we need reform. Everybody agrees with that."
Not everybody!
What, specifically, is wrong with the current immigration policy that needs reforming?
If it's so OBVIOUSLY bad, why were the laws/policies enacted in the first place?
And can anyone explain the thought process behind granting driver's licences to known, proven, certifiable, law-breakers?
I'm just not sharp enough to comprehend why this would be a good thing.
Use small words and speak slowly.
Thanks

Fixing an Evil
It is wrong that so many people are willing to vote Republican. Those people deserve to have their vote canceled and if it takes bringing in a few of our southern brothers and sisters then we would be derelict in our duty to not do so. Not that we aren't derelicts to begin with. But I digress.

It is important that the correct vote occur. Creating the workers paradise we all want can't be left to chance. Canceling the vote of a bunch of redneck yahoos is probably better than just putting them in jail for a while. We will use that if this Mexican thing doesn't work out.

Akagi
__Americans are acting like Americans for American prosperity, and thieves are acting as thieves, for self-prosperity. There is a big difference between those of this Republics prosperity, and those of greedy selfishness. Truth reveals the individuals love, and the love reveals the individuals truths.

Do You Want To Keep Your Country?


Securing the border and enforcing the law is the only way we get to keep our rule of law, our representative Republic, and our Constitution. We must elect a President who WILL secure the border and enforce the law. If citizenship becomes meaningless, this will no longer be the United States of America.

The so-called "top tier" will not get out the voters necessary for a GOP win. Increasing turnout is the key. Give people something to vote for. Not just the lesser of two evils. Won't work this time. People are fed up with the inundation of illegal aliens. They would come out in droves for the clear choice of D=amnesty or R=enforcement. They will stay home if they both equal amnesty.

There is a huge majority of American citizens waiting for someone to pledge to uphold the laws and secure the borders, let's not ignore them any more.

http://www.gohunter08.com

Rudy's Answer to Illegal Aliens
Pretty much the same as Hillary and GWB. Lip service to border security and "Comprehensive Immigration Reform", amnesty. We tried that once in 1986 and Reagan thought it the worst mistake of his terms. We now have 10 times the number of illegal aliens. We will either elect a President who will uphold the laws or one who will change them to accomodate the illegal aliens. If we do the latter, we are voluntarily committing national suicide.

Greed
Wouldn't you think doing what is borderline treason by UPS could be considered greed (and if an American company deserves to go out of business, it is this one). Oh and how about those that hire illegals as a cost saving measure..or they greedy too or just working for prosperity? Seems it is difficult to see who the greedy thieves are in this case.

And Almost_ok:

The reasons behind it are public saftey. The theory is that illegals will learn the rules of the road, get the license, get insurance, etc. If they are in an accident they won't run away, but since many Americans also drive without insurance, flee accident scenes, etc this seems to be a dubious claim.


Voting
Well Independent_thinker:

Since no election has ever been proven to have been decided by non-citizens voting even in the Bob Dornan election, this is a problem that doesn't really exist. The vast majority of illegals don't vote and the ones that do have no impact on the election. People that screw upo their ballot and vote for the wrong person have a much greater impact than the so-called problem of illegals voting.

But if you want to fix the problem (even if it doesn't really exist), you should support what I support which is a biometric based national ID card.


It's not just the 12 million...
...that are already here.

It's 30-50 million that will come in the next 20-30 years if we continue to reward them for breaking our laws.

And no, lilly, it's not about "identification" in case one of them causes an accident. It's about the Democrats needing a new source of voters. They're already getting 90% of the black vote and their policies have pissed off natural born Americans to the point that they can't grow their party base except by importing illegals and given convicted felons the vote (since so many Democrats are un-convicted felons it is only natural that convicted felons will vote for them).

bit_boy has it exactly right. It was our de facto policies that brought them here. A reversal of those policies will send them back and prevent others from coming.

Where Do I go?
What makes anyone believe that an illegal is going to purchase insurance or obey any law given the fact that they began breaking US law the moment they set foot on US Soil. We have perpetuated the notion the law does not apply to illegals because we continue as a country to say one thing, and yet reward the illegal behavior. Illegals now know this and will continue to break the law because it's certainly cost effective for them to do so.

I wouldn't buy insurance either if I knew that nothing was going to happen to me if I were caught without it.

What we seem to forget is the illegal can always run back to his beloved mexico if and when he is involved in a serious accident in which property and or injury is sustained by the other party.

Where are we supposed to run to as American Citizens when these illegal aliens finally destroy this country? I'm fairly certain mexico will not welcome Americans the way they advocate we treat their citizens living illegally here in this country.


Public Safety?
Now that is about as 180 degrees argument as I ever heard.
Apparently you're another of those falling for that line. While the truth is, as others have already pointed out here, that excuse is a ruse to sell the real purpose, vote getting, pure and simple.

ARBY
Arby, you can bet your passport that unions are courting for future use all of the current illegals. Once/or if they become citizens the unions will put 'em on strike for that 12 to 15 dollars per hr.

Illegals and car insurance are just
another lie foisted off on gullible NY people by an idiot. I say gullible, not because the believe this obvious scam, but because they voted this idiot into office. Just what incentives do illegals have to buy insurance? The law that requires it? RITFLMAO, they are already lawbreakers. Why in the h*ll would they spend a large portion of their income to comply with a law? Insurance, in this case is to protect “the other guy”, and they obviously don’t give a hoot for the other guy.

If NY is like SC they will have to get insurance before the license though. It takes proof of insurance to get a license and registration in SC. So what the scam artists do is get insurance and drop it as soon as they get the license. The Insurance Company is required to notify the State when that happens. Due to the inherent delays working their way through both channels of bureaucracy, the scammers can go for months without insurance. When finally notified by the State that their license was being suspended unless they showed proof of insurance, they then go sign up at a different company and then cancel it again.

myths about licenses
ILLEGALS will NOT drive better, nor will they maintain insurance, nor will they drive sober, nor will they "come out of the shadows." The drivers' license charade is all about getting them registered to vote (Motor-voter laws, etc.) and vote liberal/'Crat. Added dangers that licenses permeate are that ILLEGALS use them for further feigned legitimacy generally.

Ergo, the state actually helps them break state and federal laws by giving them a bit of legitimacy with the privilege of getting a license. Shrillary and the other libs KNOW all of this-- the license is an excuse to slouch toward scamnesty, and hence inexorably toward permanent big entitlement government.

The RINOS are in denial when they fathom winning some of their vote. Pray tell, what "conservative social values" are evidenced in these pandemic proclivities: identity fraud, illegitimacies, drop-outs, serious crimes, gangs, tax dodging, welfare fraud, ethnocentric adherence to speaking spanish, and barrio blight.

Voting again
Well since there has not been a single election ever decided by non-citizens (let alone illegals) voting, and since they vote in very tiny numbers...i.e. a few hundred votes among thousands cast--and since people voting for the wrong candidate (remember Palm Beach?) have a greater impact than non-citizen voting then I don't see how this is a very useful strategy.

I don't buy the claim it will foster public saftey, but that is the claim.

And UncleB:

They don't have to be citizens to call a strike--once they are legalized they will have pretty much the same rights as a US citizen which includes the right to organize.


the deportation dilemma myth
"We cannot simply deport 12 million people." Nice try-- but no cigar. All we have to do is turn out the light that is attracting the bugs-- quit allowing jobs, free services, and language accommodation to those here ILLEGALLY.

The key to this is CLEARLY demonstrating to ILLEGALS that we intend to enforce EXISTING laws--> no licenses, no jobs, no welfare, no social services, no college tuition UNLESS you can prove that you have a LEGAL right to be visiting. We also need to crack down on expired visas. Middle America has recently forced a reluctant Congress to begin sending these messages by derailing scamnesty efforts, but some in Congress need to be thrown out to make this clearer still.

Then ILLEGALS would return at THEIR expense-- the same way they got here. The power and $ are on the other side with the cheap labor lobby and limited interest groups. Presidente Jorge Bush, Sanctuary City Rudy, and other RINOS wink at them after they pretend to favor enforcement. If we let the left and RINOS make voters of the 20 million uneducated, culturally disparate ILLEGALS, it is OVER for America-- we will inexorably rapidly and permanently morph into a third world entitlement state.

The GRAND PLAN
Itis all part of the progression plan for the North American Union that Jorge is trying to foist upon us.I voted for the taco twice. He is part of this "One World Order". Him and his dad. Has anyone read Corsci's book Late Great USA?

self deportation of illegal immigrates
to make 12 million illegal aliens to self deport we have to create the same situation that the illegal immigrates had in their country of origin. They came to the United States looking for employment and benifits. So if you take these away they have no reason to stay here. If they face losing all assets "assets that were illegally gotten since they are here illegally" and prison time if they stay, this might modivate them to go back to their homeland and try the legal way of immigrating, by applying and waiting in line like the rest of the worlds immigrates that want to come here. There is a reason there are limits on how many immigrates are allowed to enter the United States every year. Our schools, hospitals, roads, housing, jobs, prisons, ect. could not handle say every person in the world who wants to come here. So if you want to come here fill out an application and wait in live and wait for the call, or letter.

NYC7USA1
Dammit, this turd is beginning to make sense.

Fence Anyone
I don't think punishing businesses for using the labor available to them is the proper first step. It's not the business' fault that the boarders are more porous than swiss cheese. You forget, this issue isn't just about the cost of illegal, it's about security.

Building a fence works. When you have a hole in a bucket you don't try to decrease gravity, you plug the hole. DUH!

Please don't compare a fence to the Berlin wall, the wall was meant to keep people trapped in against their will (prisoners). The fence would be to keep people out, the same as the lock on your front door.

what Middle America thinks
Fully 72% of New Yorkers, a liberal lot generally, oppose drivers' licenses for ILLEGALS. Coincidentally, that is the same % of Middle America which feels STRONGLY that we need to seal the border and clamp down on these here ILLEGALLY. Furthermore, independents now say that ILLEGALS are the most important challenge facing America. The pols are gradually waking up to these realities, which is why open borders Sanctuary City Rudy talks now like a born again enforcement guy (while winking at his ILLEGAL amigos).

Watch this become the seminal issue in the 2008 election in many sectors. Think about it-- do you see so much consensus on any other issue? Not long ago there were over 120 posts here opposing Linda Chavez's attempt to justify scamnesty-- 3 posters supported her. The MSM and the remote elites see this totally differently from Middle America, but the ballot boxes are still not controlled by the limited-focus special interests.

licenses and illegals
This is nonsense they are going to get licernses and pay insurance. Exactly how are do these leftists think these parasites are going to pay . Insurance aint cheap. My wife and I with no accidents and a good credit rating are paying close to $400. a month for coverage with high deductibles. For us that covers 4 cars and vans but if these illegals are here taking the low wage jobs americans won't, exactly how are they going to pony up for the cost of the ins. In ariz they drive without it and the rest of us pay to cover the cost of the all the hit and runs the illegals are causing. Givern the choice of having insurance or eating and getting on with your life, insurance will always come in second, especially to those who alrteady have no respect for our laws to begin with

Racism is a specious, red herring charge
http://www.newswithviews.com/DeWeese/tom.htm

A nation which fails to protect its borders soon ceases to be a nation. While America was created by immigrants, today's America can ONLY benefit on balance from educated, skilled immigrants who want to assimilate and become Americans. It is only natural that we seek out such immigrants and seek to stanch ILLEGALS who flaunt the law and would inexorably morph us permanently into a third world entitlement state.

We can avoid such a demise by adhering to guidelines I noted below and demanding that our pols assure such goals in defiance of the limited focus, self-aggrandizing agendas of special interests including some chauvinistic, ethnocentric Hispanic groups and miscreant employers milking "cheap" labor at the unbridled socio-economic expense of Middle America. I have never seen such a tacit alliance between the business interests and the left at the expense of Middle America which will result in perpetual problems for all, but slavery had similar implications-- cheap unskilled labor, but a ticking time bomb of concomitant social problems.

The need for the La Raza Party
lodestar writes - "If we let the left and RINOS make voters of the 20 million uneducated, culturally disparate ILLEGALS, it is OVER for America-- we will inexorably rapidly and permanently morph into a third world entitlement state."

I whole-heartedly agree that there is a serious problem giving millions the undeserved "right" to vote.

And;

Akagi writes - "Well since there has not been a single election ever decided by non-citizens (let alone illegals) voting, and since they vote in very tiny numbers"

Also true.

But, the reason that they don't vote isn't necessarily that they don't want to vote. The problem is that for many of them, there is still considerable risk in trying to vote fraudulently, coupled with the fact that the rich white elite party (Dems) offers nothing that would encourage them to take any such risk.

The example you seem to be neglecting is that when Villaraigosa was running in LA, they DID turn out to vote.

What they needed was candidate they were interested in, and a relatively "safe" means to do so.

Licenses will give them the safety to vote, but the few who take advantage will be only half-heartedly voting Democratic.

What they will eventually want is their own party, to do their bidding against the collective interest of US citizens. That's the role La Raza already plays for them. Now, it just needs to become an official political party, and those "licensed voters" will have a home for their votes.


Earl Pits Says, Wake up America!


Wake up America!
It has already been announced that the flow of illegals is slowing.
Some are returning home. Why! Because they are mostly descent people who understand that Americans are tired of footing the bill for something that there own country should be providing them. Plus, the American people are forcing the milk cow to dry up.
The large majority of Mexicans are people with pride.

In the past they believed that the American way is to take from the have’s and give to the have not’s. It is a natural mind set in this country to look to the government to provide for you.

People who are able bodied in this country will tell you that they live better on welfare than they could if they worked 40 hours a week.

We have created a society that expects life to be fair and equitable.

Those of you that think that way please send me some money as soon as possible, because I know that I am not living as well as you.

If this country will cut off the reason for illegal for being here, they will go home.
Is there a clearer way to say it?

Quit paying $15 a head for your lettuce and let a farmer make a little more profit and pay a worker a wage that will compete with other wages.

You see the problem is that people making over $100,000 a year are paying for you $15 a head lettuce, and that’s alright with most people.

It’s not morally right to expect someone else to pick up the tab for your life, no matter if you do think that they are better off than you.

Everybody that owns a house, no matter if it take 3 jobs to keep it are paying for your $15 a head of lettuce.

When you go to the grocery store and you look at that 69 cent head of lettuce, imagine that the price is actually $15 a head. Do you think that you would pass it by?
I think so!

Viktor Lincoln
Here is what “giving them jobs” is. In most States if you harvest a corn field, then spread millet on the field, and then 1 week later you hunt doves it is called “hunting on a baited field” and the game wardens will stick it to you. (500 dollars and/or 30 days in jail and they can also take your vehicles, guns, etc.). When employers give them jobs they are “baiting the fields” for illegals. Too bad the fines and punishment for hiring illegals is not a severe as hunting doves on a baited field.

Earl Pits Says, Wake up America!
By issuing licenses we are just making it easier to stay and eventually be naturalized.

It’s an insult to my intelligence to propose charging them a fine. Are they trying to appease US citizens, the ones who actually pay the bills in this country?

If the US feels that there is nothing that we can do about immigration, then we should just run the paper work through and grant citizenship immediately.

Well, I exhausted more effort than I can afford on an issue that no one wants to do anything about.

All of us know that this issue can be solved, but there’s no will to do it right.

the voting issue
Make no mistake about it-- for the left, scamnesty is all about the future votes. Hispanics were only 6% of the actual reported vote in 2006, but they are the main element of ILLEGALS, notwithstanding visa violators from Arabia and the Orient.

Furthermore, citizenship is not even always required to vote, but drivers' licenses and other steps toward scamnesty are all intended to get ILLEGALS voting so they will vote like their friends do-- for leftist big govt. It is stunning that the RINOS do not see this... the fact that well-established, successful Hispanic Americans sometimes vote conservatively is IRRELEVANT; ILLEGALS will vote at least 10:1 for big entitlement government, and when enough of them actually begin voting, not even a RINO amigo of the ilk of Presidente Jorge could ever be elected again.

lodestar
At the risk of repeating myself, The RINO's are pushing it because they are part of El Presidente Jorge's oneworld/north american union kill America group

Comprehensive Immigration Enforcement

We need Comprehensive Immigration Enforcement, not reform. We need to restore respect for the law and the faith of the American people that their government is not selling them out. Amnesty for the illegal aliens is also amnesty for the corrupt companies who have been employing them. Money trumps everything, including love of country. Multi-nationals have no loyalty to country by definition, they see us as a market, not a nation. They see people as workers, documented or undocumented, no difference. If they can't send the work to where the labor is cheaper, then they want to bring the cheap labor here. Citizenship is meaningless.

If we love our Constitution and our representative Republic and we intend to keep it we must not surrender our sovereignty or abandon the rule of law. Profits must not supercede security. We should not create a new path to citizenship. We have a path to citizenship, more generous than any other country, illegal aliens have ignored it and bad choices do have consequences.

Voting
To my knowledge citizenship is required to vote in the US. No state allows for non-citizens to vote in any state election and it is against Federal law to vote in a Federal Election as a non-citizen.

Voting as a non-citizen but legal resident is grounds to deny you citizenship. There have been some calls to allow non-citizens to vote in some local elections (school boards in California) and calls for them to vote in NY city council elections as well as school boards) but I have not heard that any of these have actually be approved.


Akagi
You want me to believe that the government can'tfind all the illegals, but they can tell how many voted? come on, that's pure BS. How many went in with fake I.D. and voted? The L.A. marchers already stated they already control the vote. How do you know different? Government agent?
Gotta go for a bit but will be back.
SEAL THE BORDERS!!
HUNTER/TANCREDO "08"

No use for La Raza whatsoever!!!
Comparing La Raza with Canada's Bloc (aka "Bloke") Quebecois:
(1) both advocate treason against the nation where they operate
(2) BQ's treason is due to its advocation of separation of Quebec from Canada, an "internal matter" and BQ is not an instrument of any other nation's foreign policy AGAINST Canada***
(3) La Raza is entirely an instrument of hostile Mexican foreign policy against US

So:
(a) La Raza should be banned immediately and permanently
(b) All US-citizen employees of La Raza should be charged with treason, and the penalty thereof be applied against all convicted (due to US "innocent-unless-proved-guilty", the right to trial exists)
(c) All non-US-citizen employees should be deported WITHOUT TRIAL to any country where they hold citizenship, and banned for eternity from entering US--even for so much as transferring flights at a US airport!

***Also, unlike La Raza, BQ's demands could actually benefit Canada, as Quebec draws $24 BILION annually in welfare MORE FROM OTTAWA than it remits in taxes. I am obviously no fan of BQ.

Hate to point out the obvious, but...
Akagi - "To my knowledge citizenship is required to vote in the US. No state allows for non-citizens to vote in any state election and it is against Federal law to vote in a Federal Election as a non-citizen."

While these "technicalities" do exist, they have little to no effect - especially when motor-voter laws require no PROOF of citizenship, just that ever so useful "licsense".

slwerner
why wouldn't the illegals vote. YThe dims have perfected the art of identifying and enabling various victim groups. These illegal parasites hav e come to take advantage of the various services and handouts they can steal at ourt expense. Ballots get printed in various languages. They will always vote as that is how they think the handouts will continue and they will get to stay in the land of milk and honey

I hope you didn't take me seriously
svpallava - "La Raza is entirely an instrument of hostile Mexican foreign policy against US"

Yes, I'm well aware of this fact. My admittedly snide point in suggesting the need for a La Raza Party, was to suggest that the Democrats should not and cannot count of the loyalties of illegal immigrants when so many have an openly anti-US agenda, namely Aztlan.

I would, smirkingly, suggest that rather than see illegals funnel into voting for big-gov handouts via Dems, that they be "encouraged" to dream big about "reconquista", killing and driving out the gringos and taking the wealth for la raza. La Raza, not the Democrats should be their "voting bloc" ambitions.

Suggesting that they openly espouse such goals via their own La Raza Party would have the side benefit of making their real goals "public".

Akagi
I like OnceaMarine, don't understand what happened to you. You, even though I didn't always agree with you, had(and the operative word is HAD) a pretty level head on your sholders. What happened to you guy? I don't understand how a guy can change so much over-night. Hopefully you will wake up and come back to what you used to be. I mean that with all due respect.

Close the borders and insure Our future!
HUNTER/TANCREDO "08"

This is too good
Was just listening to Rush. He played a sound bite of Hillary on some show last night.(60 Minutes?) Anyway she was asked again about the drivers licenses for illegals. Again she said it was unfair for Governors to have to make these laws. Then another sound bite, she said Governors shouldn't be making any immigration laws, and she will take care of it "When I am president AGAIN".

Isn't that a hoot?

dreaming aloud
wildwest - "They will always vote as that is how they think the handouts will continue and they will get to stay in the land of milk and honey"

Actually, this IS my concern. My La Raza suggestion was really nothing more than me dreaming aloud about a wat to bait them into wasting their votes (assuming, of course, that they end up gatting them).

I propose to tempt them with rewards far greater than the overly-generous government giveaways they could secure through the Dem Party (look up Aztland, La Raza and MeCHa for a more detailed description).

I'm not worried that they'd actually win any of their goals. But, like that dog starring greedily into the water at that other dogs bone, I like to see them drop their votes in the water, with nothing in return.

For slwerner @ 14:54
What makes you think I even bothered looking at your earlier post to "take you seriously"?

No use for La Raza whatsoever
svpallava - "What makes you think I even bothered looking at your earlier post to "take you seriously"?"

Because you entitled your post "No use for La Raza whatsoever", which caused me to assume that you were responding to my mention of La Raza earlier.

I'm sorry if I've caused you any offense by suggesting this.

Unless I have a name sake
My opinions are pretty consistent actually.

The point is this eastlakejoe...

The number of non-US citizens voting in US elections are small and too small to effect the outcome. Illegal aliens shouldn't be given licenses by states and the claims of public saftey are dubious. The US should seriously consider a real national ID card.

And if I recall, you savaged me a few weeks ago, so perhaps you have me confused with someone else.


Home Sweet Home
When I find myself confused by an issue I break it down into micro components. Think about it this way. You own a home, have a spouse and children whom you care for. One day someone unknown shows up in your basement. That person eats your food, visits your doctor, goes to your job or school. You think you are doing a favor for someone less fortunate. They think it's a good deal and tell their friends and family. Now you have more people living in your basement. So many that the basement can barely hold them and you are neglecting your own family because it's costing so much to feed everyone else.
This is no different than the burden placed on our states and our country. Do you leave your house unlocked for anyone to enter at will? Would you invite an ax murderer into your home where your wife and children play and sleep? Of course not. Why then do we not follow the same logic when allowing immigrants into our county?
I know people who come here only for free medical and dental care. They don't want to be citizens. They come for what they can get here that they can't get in their own country. Then return home. Yet many hard working citizens can't even qualify for these "priviledges."
Why are we doing this? It just doesn't make sense.

MOTOR-VOTER-FRAUD HELPS DEM/STATISTS

.....The Democrats have become the masters of voter fraud and this is just another link in the chain ...

.....When issued a license the applicant is automatically registered to vote ...I wonder who they are supposed to vote for? .....COLOSSUS

Didn't think I'd agree with Konop

on much of anything, but I'd seen this video before, and it's a MUST SEE!!!!!

http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/immigration

This whole 'drivers licenses for illigal aliens' is a ridiculous discussion...

".... no serious person thinks we can round up 12 million people and deport them." Really? Well how about making a concerted effort to find the ones we can, and deporting the ones we DO find?





answer
It is surprising that Parker's column is centered around a question which has been answered repeatedly. Perhaps she has not actually been following the contraversy.

The reason that New York has proposed to give drivers liscences to Illegal Aliens, and that some other states have already done so, is that they want to make their roads safer.

This is not a particularly silly reason. After all the reason that we do not simply throw open the door to all immigrants is not that we are racists opposed to foreigners, it is that there is a limit to how many immigrants we can absorb at a given time without causing problems in safety and economics. But since that is the case it makes sense for states to base their policies on what will actually do most to protect safety and economics. So since it is better for the roads to have more people within the driver's license system states are trying to do that. Since it is better to have illegals paying into the social security system some states have tried to arrange systems for that. Since it would be bad to have a large number of uneducated children, and people with no access to health care acting as carriers for disease, some states have tried to address these things.

So the answer is, states would like to keep their people safe. A fairly sensible motivation for state action.

Akagi
We had a heated disagreement on religeon, but we didn't differ that much on the illegal matter. The only other thing we disagreed on was when you said your loyalties were with another place.We actually agreed on closing the border at that time. That kinda irked me because you were arguing about this nation that we BOTH live in. I don't know, maybe I'm wrong about you or I took you the wrong way then. I still think you are an intelligent person who is smarter than to believe some of the things you have said in the last couple of days.

Close the borders now!
HUNTER/TANCREDO "08"

It affects us all
You don't have to be in the position of hiring illegals or doing business with them to be affected by them. I was driving to work one morning in August 2002, in a car that was nearly paid off, and I was rear-ended. I was lucky in that the young man who hit me didn't drive off, but it was clear that he could barely speak English. He was unable to produce ID, was driving a borrowed car, and I was only able to get a name, a phone number, and a license plate number out of him. In pain, upset, and stressed, I resolved to let my insurance company deal with it, after advising them that it would be to their advantage to assign a bilingual agent to the case.

I did have a whiplash-type injury from this accident, resulting in pain and numbness in my left shoulder that still continues. I ended up trading the car in for my next vehicle, and my insurance company reimbursed me for my medical bills, but the guy who hit me didn't have to pay one red cent.

Sometimes you have to wonder what incentive we have to abide by the rules and laws. So many illegals don't abide, and there doesn't seem to be any consequences.

For Our Safety
Lon, you're absolutely right we need to allow them the ability to take the test and get their driver's licenses so that they will become better drivers which will after all make us all safer. Of course we should also subsidize their purchase of cars so that they can buy safer late model cars that will ultimately make all of us safer as well. Also, it would probably be a good idea to have government provided driver's training for the illegals so that again they and the rest of us will be a lot safer. While we're at it we should probably provide a government provided maintenance plan on the illegal's vehicles -- you know for everyone's safety of course.

Lon, help is on the way
Lon believes - "The reason that New York has proposed to give drivers liscences to Illegal Aliens, and that some other states have already done so, is that they want to make their roads safer."

Lon,

Since it is so obviously only all about safety, I understand there are some helpful Nigerian bankers who would love to smuggle lots of money out of their country to help you make us all safer. You, see their plan is to use your bank account as a conduit to... Well, I'm sure they'll explain it to you better that I could.

Once they see your post, they'll no doubt be contacting you shortly:)

A Step Further
Hell, forget what I just said, let's just take it a step further -- Private professionally trained chauffers for all of the illegals. I can't think of anything safer.

reply to UncleB
re:
*************************************************
UncleB writes: Wednesday, November, 07, 2007 2:01 PM
lodestar
At the risk of repeating myself, The RINO's are pushing it because they are part of El Presidente Jorge's oneworld/north american union kill America group

*************************************************

I could not agree more... the great Reagan got snookered into a "one-time" scamnesty with the firm promise of no mas; there were tough new laws calling for enforcement against border crashers. But that was a ruse-- Reagan would say that it was the worst mistake of his 8 years. It WAS, because it sent the wrong message to future ILLEGALS-- we really did not mean it when we said we would enforce the border and clamp down on miscreant employers.

Reagan would barely recognize those masquerading as Republicans like profligate spender Presidente Jorge, who thinks that we cannot get enough Mexicans to be the servants of business, but today's servants will become tomorrow's socio-economic burdens and voters for the entitlement welfare state.

reply to: Akagi
It is state legislatures which decide who has a right to vote per SCOTUS, and in various local areas ILLEGALS are unquestionably voting:

http://reclaimdemocracy.org/political_reform/right_to_vote. html

[The Court affirmed the district court's interpretation that our Constitution "does not protect the right of all citizens to vote, but rather the right of all qualified citizens to vote.” And it's state legislatures that wield the power to decide who is “qualified.”]

A KEY concern is that drivers' licenses will be used as legitimization for voting, which they inexorably will. Hispanics already have the right to demand ballots in Spanish, so that is not an obstacle, and illiterate people have been voting by numbers as instructed forever.

Sammy
Lets take it one more step. Hummer limos for them to and from ANY job they want including yours and mine. I'm generous enough to want to help. He!! while we're at , lets just give them the country and we'll move to Mexico so they'll have cheap labor. How about it? sound good to you?

Close the borders,Build the wall.
HUNTER/TANCREDO "08"

worth repeating...
************************************************
carol writes: Wednesday, November, 07, 2007 10:10 AM
illegals and motor-voter laws

People are missing the MAJOR reason why illegals shouldn't get driver's licenses.

Ever hear of motor-voter? Here in Oregon---which freely admits it issues drivers licenses to illegals---we have motor-voter. When you sign up for your license, you get to register to vote at the same time. Oh, by the way, did I tell you that in Oregon we don't have polling places? All of our voting is done strictly by mail. Talk about the perfect storm!

When you have drivers licenses issued to illegals, and you have motor-voter, you have vote fraud. Maybe you're okay with illegals voting on your governor, your senators.

I'm not...

*************************************************

Carol's example is a harbinger of what happens when ANY sort of legitimacy/accommodation is afforded ILLEGAL alien invaders. Bilingual education for ILLEGAL children morphs into a requirement for ballots, etc., to be available in spanish. Some areas are hiring ILLEGALS to teach in our public schools with texts donated by Mexico calling for the Reconquista. We must not let Mexico pass its problems off on us! simply TRULY enforce EXISTING laws and ILLEGALS will repatriate attritively-- the straw man problem of mass deportation will be unnecessary.

Lon
If I were looking at your points strictly from logic, I might be able to cut the states some slack.

But, the facts are that the problem is destructive to our economy, culture, and security.
It must be dealt with in a manner that does not permit 15-20 million more immigrants into this country uninvited.
Immigration is not a right, it’s a privilege. If you think that it’s a right, try telling some other country that you wish to immigrate because it’s your right.

I’m willing to concede that the illegals are not the villain in this debacle.
They are here because the US offers them more than there own country.

My parents were immigrants. I probably wouldn’t have the life I have if they had not been permitted to come here.
But, my parents obeyed the laws and embraced this country as there permeate home.
They did not carve out a little piece of America and call it Italy. They did not fly there flag in the front yard. They became Americans in the fullest sense of the word.

Everything that you said may have a practical application, but in essence what it says is that we have accepted defeat in the matter. It says that you are here and it doesn’t look like we can do anything about it, so welcome aboard, here’s your citizenship privileges.
We are telling them that we have no control of our law enforcement.

CONTINUED

Lon

I lay the blame directly at the feet of people taking advantage of cheap labor and they have done it at the expense of the tax payer.

If I had my way, I would go after them with hells fury. Many have done it because it seems to be the way of the Capitalist, but it has caused a serious problem for all of us.

In order to make money off of cheap labor they have introduce crime, burdened our welfare system, introduced disease, and created an environment of resentment because Americans have been displaced from there jobs.

Some will argue that in a Capitalist system you have the right to hire the cheapest labor and make the most money that you can. They are right until they start doing it while I subsidize the wages by paying for medical, education, housing, food stamps.

You can’t introduce measures that make it easier to stay here. We could solve this problem in weeks or a few months if we attacked it properly.

We would reduce the numbers 75 percent in no time without get expense. They are already leaving areas where programs have been put in place.

Shut off demand and supply goes away, period.

NYC,NY(R)77: YOU'RE CAP LOCKS ARE ON!

Are you yelling? Please stop! It's rude!


NYC,NY (R) 77
Please quit screaming, my ears hurt from reading you. I'm going to start scrolling you. There are legal aliens in the States you know. Some are very fine people. Law abiding people.

CLOSE THE BORDER, SAVE THE U.S.!!!
HUNTER/TANCREDO "08"

Anne
I think it's the same guy who keeps getting banned. He was NYC77ABC or something like that originally, he's on his 3rd or 4th variation of the racist rant. I think it's a troll trying to make Townhall look bad.

BUSH SELL OUT!

Rattle those cages in Washington!
Folks, do NOT underestimate how influential your calls and e-mails to Congress can be. While it is true that the monied lobbyists and inside the beltway power brokers wield the most influence, even the pro-ILLEGAL forces admit that it has
been righteously indignant Middle America pounding out those calls and e-mails which has derailed Scamnesty thus far despite the immense special interest $ trying to cram it thru. We also recently stopped stealth scamnesty-- the "Dream Act" (really a nightmare).

Great American Sen. Sessions and others have noted that the Senators have never seen anything like the wrath this Scamnesty stuff has caused in Middle America. Here is how you can easily contact YOUR Senators and Representatives at their official contact sites. Heck, contact all of them! Bookmark it and call/e-mail them often:

http://www.congressmerge.com/onlinedb/index.htm

Or you can send the great topic specific e-mails as prepared by the top anti-ILLEGAL group and stay informed right here:

http://www.numbersusa.com/index
http://www.numbersusa.com/actionbuffet

America would be a TERRIBLE thing to lose-- join the righteous fight to save YOUR country! This is a critical time to become involved!

Has tide turned on the ILLEGAL invasion?
Amazingly, the tide has turned in favor of the out-gunned Middle American, grassroots forces recently against the monied special interests of the pro-ILLEGALS controlling both parties with different ulterior agendas. Shrillary twisted her disingenuous self like a pretzel trying not to admit she supports driver's licenses for ILLEGALS. Various states which initially did that (e.g. North Carolina) reversed it because of the pandemic crime, gangs, fraud and blight which ensued.

We stopped the innocuous sounding "Dream Act" which would have made 1 million of the younger ILLEGALS citizens, whereupon they would have applied for millions more relatives. Socialists Turbin Durbin and Dingy Harry Reid had thought that this artful subterfuge/clandestine scamnesty would be the easiest to cram thru the Senate, BUT THEY FAILED! Even Sen. Lindseed Gramnesty voted against it after rightously indignant citizens in S.C. rightly figuratively threatened to lynch him for embracing ILLEGALS against their overwhelming opposition.

I am actually rather encouraged after having feared that America was irretrievably lost to the ILLEGAL invasion. It ain't over-- the leading
candidates love ILLEGALS --> Shrillary and Sanctuary City Rudy, because there are at least 3 million of them in N.Y. state. "Meandering Mitt" Romney and Fred "Wake me up when it's over" Thompson SAY the right things, but I am suspicious of both... they smack of globalists in patriots' clothing.

Inconvenient Truths About ILLEGALS
The facile myths of the alleged benefits of ILLEGALS are belied by egregious, pervasive, corrosive realities: crime, drugs, gangs, tax evasion, illegitimacies, welfare fraud, identity theft, barrio blight, school enervation, and socio-economic and cultural decimation. ILLEGALS DO NOT PROVIDE CHEAP LABOR-- their all-in socio-economic costs are STAGGERING... only a few owners benefit from ILLEGALLY employing them, and that "savings" is NOT passed along.

We must stanch the ILLEGAL invasion (including cracking down on the millions who overstay visas) or lose America; we are inexorably slouching toward Gomorrah. We should radiate the ILLEGAL crisis like a cancer before it can destroy the whole body politic. We will devolve and erode into a third world entitlement welfare state if we give ILLEGALS the vote, which will come before they get citizenship and accelerate the latter.

Build the wall... make English the official and ONLY language... require a tamper-proof I.D. for ANY non-citizen to function here... do NOT grant drivers' licenses to ILLEGALS which is really a step toward voter fraud... enforce existing laws by REALLY cracking down on miscreant employers... allow local governments the right to deal with ILLEGALS... flatly prohibit any welfare for
ILLEGALS such as the families of anchor babies... and interpret and apply the 14th Amendment as intended-- as with the children of diplomats born on American soil, ILLEGAL alien madres of anchor babies are NOT subject to our jurisdiction and should not be able to push out new citizens, then get in the welfare line.

Silicone Doc
There are two who have pledged to close the border but they lack national recognition, due in part to the MSM. Hunter and Tancredo have both said that they WILL close the border if elected. I will vote for one of them in the primaries and if by some strange chance one gets the nod, I pray they team up. Talk about a dream team. Please God!

Close the border and preserve our nationality.

Hunter/Tancredo "08"
God Bless America ...Again!

Soviet Union of America
With numerous voices here for enforcing our current immigration laws, it is worth to mention that these laws can be only enforced in the Soviet style political system, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2wE0IBmh_Q .
The laws are bad, not our ability to enforce them.

Our immigration laws are not enforced because we still do not have a Soviet style political system.

However, many voices here boil down to advocating for abandonment of those anarchistic ideas of the free market and the freedom of individual and for converting the United States of America into the Soviet Union of America. Soviets had the guts and the methods to keep borders secure.

Please remember that the evil empire was created by people of good intentions, exactly as you are.

hak speaks the truth...partially
You are quite right that these laws can only be applied in a Soviet-style system, but you neglected to add this.

Let me explain with an anecdote. During the floods one year, the storm drain broke at the top of the hill. Water came to the surface and flowed down the street. When the water hit a curve in the road, the force of the water was enough to skip the kerb and run down the into the houses on the 'downside.' Naturally, they were upset. Some (not engineers obviously) suggested building a dam at the top of the hill to hold back the water.

Apart from engineering folly, where the hell did the proposers of this nutty idea think the water would GO? In a couple of days, the city fixed the root of the problem and life went on.

Think of immigrants as water. We are 'downhill' because we have a richer economy. We can build a dam(n) wall, but as one pollie pointed out a 12-foot wall can be scaled with a 13-foot ladder.

Yes, we can build the wall; yes we can make it tough to get jobs; yes we can eliminate benefits. But so long as there's water, it will find a way downhill.

The only way to improve the situation, short of becoming poorer than the immigrant-producing countries, is to make them _richer_. This is one aim of NAFTA/CAFTA etc. But, of course, you're against that, thinking somehow that this is one step towards a "North American Union" that will leave 300m rich Americans powerless against 25m Canadians and 108m poor Mexicans.

Black helicopters, anyone?

Mellor
If what you say is true, then how did they do it in the 50s and early 60s? I don't remember any black helicopters flying around then. It was simple, they didn't take away the power of the border guards to arrest and they bussed them back as soon as they were caught, no questions asked. That is not soviet type tactics. All we have to do is enforce the laws as they are written, which also state what action can be taken against the illegals. Soviet type tactics would include shooting on sight, no questions asked and we don't do that. Our border guards are authorized to fire IF FIRED ON. Books don't always tell you the whole story guy.

Close off the border and preserve the United States!
HUNTER/TANCREDO "08"

MellorSJ2, freedom is good
How did you arrive with an assumption that I am against making them richer, meaning poorer people around the world, and South of our border in particular?

Worldwide, money sent back by immigrants to their native countries are bigger than the whole organized help for poor countries provided by both governmental and non governmental institutions. The best what we can do for poor countries it is opening the market to free trade and allowing poor people seek employment in other countries. As I explain it in the texts on my website, surprisingly, this solution is the most beneficial for the presently rich countries, like the U.S., as well.

Henryk A. Kowalczyk
http://www.henrykkowalczyk.com


eastlake joe, a good man with good....
Please do not try to convince me that we are not a Soviet style system yet. I lived in Poland under Soviet domination, so I know that we do not have a Soviet system here yet.

However, having first hand experience, I know that good people with good intentions, like you are, created the Soviet system. You do not know this.

a x-post: the threat of ILLEGAL voting
Someone said here that ILLEGALS cannot vote-- wanna' bet?! Drivers' licenses are simply one part of the lib scamnesty agenda aimed precisely at getting them to vote.

************************************************
ikeltin writes: Thursday, November, 08, 2007 10:39 AM
Frantic for Amnesty?
Yes, the Democrats definitely are. It's not about voting in the far future, folks, it's whats happening NOW!.

I live in CA. For the last four go-rounds during Presidential elections, the illegals have been voting in larger numbers in CA. Linda Sanchez in CA unseating a conservative Republican from his congressional seat, in Orange County, up til then a solidly conservative district. Research shows she probably had 5% of his votes from those not entitled to vote.

In the Big Valley where the original 'guest workers' went, the bus would come along on election day and pick up All the workers in the fields (including those who had just arrived from Mexico for the first time) and took them to vote. They came back to the fields a couple of hours later all excited about voting and said they couldn't read the ballot, but voted for who their Mexican foreman to them to vote for.

The people in charge of the voting districts I personally observed, were all solidly Democratically controlled.

We need much better controls over who votes in this country, and if we, The People, want to keep our country, we'd better start getting off our fat butts, organizing and making the rules change!!!

Wholesale Voter Fraud In California


Voter fraud has been going on in California for years.



lodestar writes: Thursday, November, 08, 2007 10:51 AM
a x-post: the threat of ILLEGAL voting
Someone said here that ILLEGALS cannot vote-- wanna' bet?! Drivers' licenses are simply one part of the lib scamnesty agenda aimed precisely at getting them to vote.

************************************************
ikeltin writes: Thursday, November, 08, 2007 10:39 AM
Frantic for Amnesty?
Yes, the Democrats definitely are. It's not about voting in the far future, folks
it is happening now. Illegal are being rounded up on election day taken to the poles and told to vote Democrat.

*************************************

This WAS REPORTED after the last election in such bastions of the libtard as the San Jose Mercury News, It was not picked up by the liberal papers of the east such as the WaPoop and the New York Traitor so most of the country was unaware of the fraud committed by the Dhimnocrats. The papers in the east were trying to perpetrate thier own fraud on the country in Ohio and Floridah.

This is one of the reasons Diane Feinestien is so adamant and insistent that the agJOBS bill be passed. It will provide cover for many more illegal aliens in CA that Democrats can transport to the poles to vote.
.

.

STOP the Fair Tax SCHEME

The FairTax Scheme is a double tax on the savings of the citizens of the US. Ask Rep Linder (sponsor of the bill) why income (savings/investments/retirements/inheritances/home equity) taxed under the income tax system is not excluded from a double taxation at the point of sale consumption tax. You’ll get a libtard, chillary double speak non-answer.

.

did i read this right?
jetpilot writes: Be reasonable & have compassion.

This after he ok's dl's for illegals for driving purposes only.

How reasonable is it to reward bad behavior? Would you tell a disobedient child "it's ok if you misbehave...here, have another cookie,"? Reasonable??? WE have been VERY reasonable. All we ask is that our laws be respected and upheld. That is NOT too much to ask!

Have compassion. Yes, let's have compassion for the illegals who couldn't care less if they cost your loved one his/her life. Jetpilot, I now have had to BURY TWO WOMEN thanks to illegals. The first, my mother, illegals couldn't be compassionate about the torture they put her through (tuberculosis). The second, my childhood friend's mother, mowed down by an illegal driver. Oh, yeah, let's give those miscreants a driver's lisence...NOT! That guy was soooo compassionate about this 75 year old woman he didn't even bother to apply the brakes. Oh and let's not forget the outpouring of compassion from illegals when they STEAL our jobs from us. Yep, been there, done that, too.

Be reasonable...ok. It is reasonable to kick them all out of OUR country. Be compassionate...as compassionate as they have been to us. Sure! No problem!

hak asks
"How did you arrive with an assumption that I am against making them richer, meaning poorer people around the world, and South of our border in particular?"

I did not. I merely added the point.

HAK
So your answer is to just let them flood our country untill we are turned into a third world type nation? Our economy and natural resources can sustain only so many people. Are you ready to let YOUR family starve to accomodate them? I most certainly am not. Already the water supplies out west are dwindling and may give out due only to over population and over use. At the rate it's going, if there is global warming it won't make any difference at all. Look at Florida, the fresh water aquafers are so depleted that people are finding their houses at the bottom of sink holes because the water is no longer supporting the coral structures. I say again, NOT MY FAMILY!!
SEAL THE BORDER BEFORE WE SEAL OUR FUTURE!!!
HUNTER/TANCREDO "08"

Driving Miss Hillary
Mark my words. As soon as Hillary embraced George McGovern her Mojo left her like a Jap War Criminal trying to get out of Tokyo!

Let Illegals Drive? Hillary CAN'T force herself to give the obvious answer, NO! She wants to dance with the devil but doesn't want to pay the piper.

Regardless of what political party you play with, there's one thing Americans will not abide and that's a PHONY! And that's what shes become.

If you think what happened to Kerry in the last election was savage, wait and see what happens if she gets the nomination! It will be the most brutal, bloody smack down in American political history! Not only will she not get elected she'll probably lose her Senate seat as well.

Mark My Words!

Pedro Zapeta.
He's here illegally. He got the money illegally. Send his sorry illegal self home, keep the money, and in fact he should be fined and charged for the trip home.

Round up and deport! Hell no!
Give them 3 months to get out or they will be shot. They are a threat to national security so they leave or die.
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