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Wednesday, October 10, 2007
Kathleen Parker :: Townhall.com Columnist
Wearing Virtue on Our Lapels
by Kathleen Parker
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WASHINGTON -- The much ado about Barack Obama's decision not to wear an American flag lapel pin was, well, symbolic.

To follow the debate that followed the headline that followed the nonstory about a dated decision is to witness where acute partisanship has led us. From the hue and cry on the right, you'd have thought Obama had flushed a Bible down the toilet.

What Obama did might have escaped anyone's notice but for what he said when a reporter in Iowa recently asked him about the missing pin. In the Age of Public Virtue, it is apparently essential that citizens flaunt their patriotism; crucial if they're running for public office.

Obama replied that he had worn a flag pin immediately after 9/11, but removed it when he felt it had become a substitute for "true patriotism." He said he preferred to demonstrate his allegiance to the US of A by "speaking out on issues that are of importance to our national security" and by trying "to tell the American people what I believe will make this country great, and hopefully that will be a testimony to my patriotism."

One could argue that Obama didn't say exactly the right thing, politically. When campaigning for president, it's probably best not to insult all those nice Iowans who have flagpoles in their front yards and flag pins in their lapels.

On the other hand, most honest brokers know exactly what he meant, and he's not wrong. Overused symbols lose their meaning.

There was a time not long ago when displaying one's political or religious affiliations -- as well as one's affections -- was considered seriously bad form. Today it's bad form to be private, and votes swing on which candidate lays on the best kiss.

From crucifix necklaces and fish lapel pins that declare "I'm a Christian" to colored rubber wristbands that convey solidarity with cancer victims and environmentalists, we've become a nation of exhibitionist symbolists.

Competitive caring is the new national sport in which the victor is judged not by acts of charity, but by the number of bracelets stacked on his wrists. We wear stickers after we vote or give blood -- and plaster yellow ribbons on our SUVs -- lest anyone doubt we support our troops.

By making symbols fashionable, we've ratified boasting as an act of redemption and elevated empathy to an existential conceit. I care, therefore I am. I care more than you do, therefore I am more than you are.

I wear this lapel pin, therefore, my country 'tis of me, not thee.

But of course that ain't necessarily so. Sometimes those most publicly virtuous are the least. Some "values" conservatives have wide stances, for instance. Some greenies travel to global warming conferences in private jets. Some politicians wear flag pins just because.

Hypocrisy isn't inevitable, but neither is the wearing of symbols a guarantee of sincerity.

There's an obsessive-compulsive component to this ritualized belonging that is tied to another characteristic of our age -- anxiety. We find relief by forming identity groups around what we fear. We create symbols and rituals as ways of organizing that anxiety and exercising control over the thing that controls us.

Buy a pink toaster and maybe breast cancer won't get us. Affix a fish emblem to our cars and maybe Jesus will get us home safely. Valium with adhesive backing.

Consciously, we know it's "just" a symbol, but symbols have power by virtue of their ability to reach the unconscious -- our primitive selves -- and to trigger an emotional response. Our little lizard brains get upset and we react viscerally when others disrespect our cherished symbols.

That may explain why Obama's comment caused such a stir. The American flag doesn't just stand for patriotism. It stands for an idea and calls up an entire landscape of American memory.

It also pays silent homage to all who came before, those American forefathers who spilled their blood so that a Barack Obama -- biracial son of an American mother and a Kenyan father -- someday could run for president of the greatest nation man ever conceived.

That's a heap o' wallop packed in a cheap trinket.

Wearing one wouldn't necessarily make Obama a better patriot, but it might make him a better politician.

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About The Author
Kathleen Parker is a syndicated columnist with the Washington Post Writers Group.
 
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OR
he is more worried about the PC police. Forget him. He's a chump

True patriotism
What Senator Obama really means by not wearing a flag lapel pin is that he doesn't love his country the way it is now, but only the way it should be according to him. Thus, a "true patriot" is one who loves an ideal image of America and not America as it truly is, with all of its unsightly bloats and blemishes. But I think this definition of patriotism is backwards and obviously self-serving, which is why Senator Obama can't be the kind of president America needs.

Yet I see how Senator Obama's backwards, self-serving patriotism appeals to his choir, whose "patriotism" is all of the same character: Blame America first (MoveOn & Code Pink), the world is worse off for America's existence (Howard Zinn), America is the root of all evil (Moan Chomsky and Achmadinedjad), American sovereignty is holding human progress back (George Soros), America is destroying the global environment (Fat Albert Gore), American support of Israel and meddling in the Middle East is the source of all the problems there (Jimmy Carter and OBL), etc. Clearly, the greatest and best act of American patriotism for this lot would be to destroy America.

Oh, KP, so many words, so little value
Between the psycho babble and talk of "cheap trinkets," you display alarming naivete. You actually buy Obama's explanation for removing an American flag pin in the midst of his presidential campaign.

No candidate makes a decision like that without careful consideration about whom is likely to be offended and whom is likely to applaud.

In removing the flag pin, Obama calculated he would win points with "progressives" who are likely to vote for him. For moderate to conservative voters, his pin removal is a defiant, erect middle finger.

Oh come on...
...this is a big nothing. I want to preface my comments by saying, I do not like Obama. I would not vote for him for dog catcher. He is a socialist like all the other Dems running at this time.

However, I don't like the guy for solid reasons. The fact he chooses not to wear a flag on his lapel, give me a break. I don't wear one either. The US flag is emblazoned on my heart, I don't need a pin on my chest. This does not make the guy unamerican or even less worthy of a Presidential bid (I don't think anything could make him less worthy, but that's another matter). Let's talk him down for real reasons, like the issues and drop the namby pamby BS.

Kathleen writes:
" Buy a pink toaster and maybe breast cancer won't get us. Affix a fish emblem to our cars and maybe Jesus will get us home safely. Valium with adhesive backing."

Although I am the supreme expert in all subjects....whats up with this?

My car flag
I'll continue to replace my car flag is it inevitably becomes tattered in the speeds of road travel.
Some folks just need reminding.

Ah,yes "the symbols"
Action speaks much louder to me than a lapel pin.
Let's see, bad not to wear the flag . Perfectly OK to to burn it.
The "fish" sure did wonders for the road rage freak I saw last year. After rear ending the car in front, he leaped out and began screaming at the people in the car. There were children in the car,and his language was disgusting. Oh, but he had that fish,so of course he is a Good Christian.

All Decent Americans wear/fly flag
We are reminded every day about our brave Military carrying this this flag on their shoulder into battle, the least we can do is follow their lead.


http://Vets4Fred.net

Dazzling But Illogical
Obama's response to the reporter's question says 2 things:

1. Obama is either a liar or an idiot.

2. The reporter was incompetent for not asking the follow-up question.

What magic powers does a lapel pin have that prevented Obama from "demonstrating his allegiance to the USA by speaking out on issues that are of importance to our national security and by trying to tell the American people what he believes will make this country great" (his answer)... while he was wearing the pin? Did the pin have some kind of paralyzing power over him that prevented him from "speaking out" and "demonstrating" while he was wearing it?

I'm questioning his illogical response more than his patriotism. It seems to me that Obama did an elaborate dance, the reporter wasn't swift enough to ask the obvious follow-up question and all of the other media dunces are afraid to wonder why, out loud.




B Hussein O
is not stupid. He took the pin out of his lapel because he figured a symbol of old fashioned patriotism was costing him more votes in his natural voter pool than it was gaining him. Nice commentary on left wing voters, no?

Correct me If I'm Wrong
but I think that for a liberal, wearing a flag lapel pin indicates that the wearer is supporting President Bush, the War, and other conservative views.

Aside to Dolly Llama, you would do well to look up the definition of fascism. Nationalism is but a small part of fascism, which is properly an economic system - centralized government control of private enterprise, along with one party dictatorship and suppression of opposition. Sounds like the Democrat Party, doesn't it?

http://www.countrymanscorner.blogspot.com

Mrs. Parker
Absolutely beautiful article. With this artlcle, you only confirm your status of being the best columnist that townhall has to offer.

Thasic - dittos
Hey people, we don't have to stretch to invent things to hang on Obama. The flag pin issue is trivial and it makes us look trivial by latching on to it like Michale Vick pit bull. Focus on his woeful domestic and foreign policies and how detrimental they are to the US.

Thanks, Kathleen. I always appreciate your common sense and balance.

My Two Cents
I think Sen. Obama's position is probably the most tone deaf political statement of the twenty-first century, but it is his decision to make.

Secondly, wearing a flag pin and being patriotic are not mutually exclusive behaviors. One could easily do both simultaneously without offending anyone's sensibilities. That the good senator sees a choice where none exists is troubling given the position to which he aspires.

Symbolism
Symbolism over substance...that about sums up all politicians

Pins and choice
A few days after the 911 disaster, we, and some our friends for example in Great Britain, flew the American flag in respect, solidarity and rememberance of those who were the victims that terrible day. People displayed the flag in decals, mini flags sticking out vehicle windows, lawn flags, T-shirts including many with vatious mottos etc. And, then there were lapel pins, brooches, strips of red-white-blue ribbons tied around wreaths and looped for personal wear. All this you know.

Did it symbolize their 'patriotism' ["the zealous support of one's country"]... maybe. Since I consider myself a patriot, I didn't need to make any displays to show my stripe, I did it for the reasons at the top of this comment, "respect, solidarity and rememberance of those who were the victims".

Today, I still wear the flag for the same reasons above, plus two other pins in solidarity with my comrades-in-arms: VFW and American Legion lapel pins.

Mr. Obama chooses to not wear a pin...his choice. I don't check lapel pins for patriotism, and I would suggest it is a non story.

Colonel Doug, USAF retired

stupid decision; inane column
What is Barack Obama running for President of? The United Nations? If he has problems with the symbols of the United States, then he's the wrong guy for the job. If he won, he'd be the representation of that symbol (not to mention surrounded by it) everywhere he went. What would shareholders think of the CEO of any corporation who didn't want to be associated with the brand (Microsoft, IBM, FedEx, Google, the Red Cross)? They'd NEVER vote for someone like that to head their enterprise. Let's hope Americans have as much sense.

And a column like this extolling the virtues of such a decision is as vapid and lacking substance as the decision itself. It was a transparent political ploy to pander to those who hate the war in Iraq, hate Bush and dislike most of what America stands for. Justifying it any other way is empty-headed.

Symbols
Let's say, for the sake of argument that all B. Hussein Obama and this columnists says is the absolute truth about the flag pin. She is still wrong and so is Hussein. We all know that symbols in our culture are very strong. We show all who we are and what we are by symbols. We raised the flag on Iwo Jima, we raised the flag over the WTC atrocity, and Americans have fought and died for our flag around the world. We Americans are very proud of our flag and what is represents.
Think about if for a minute. Who does Parker and B. Hussein Obama think they are kidding about symbols? There have been deaths, riots, law suits, prison time over symbols.
Secondly, if any of the whites in this country, and especially the white males, think some guy by the name of B. Hussein Obama is going to represent their interests, One, they have not been paying attention, Two, they have had their head buried in the sand for 50 years, Three, they have been brain washed, Four, they are so politically correct they wouldn't know a quota system, an affirmative action program, or a Marion Barry, or a Naggin if it walked up and cut their throat.

Mrs. Parker
"On the other hand, most honest brokers know exactly what he meant, and he's not wrong. Overused symbols lose their meaning."

Very nice observation. Did anyone catch Hannity's fake outrage over the pin thing and all the while doing so with out a pin himself? What a hypocrite.

It's not the pin it's the reason
I think the most telling part is that he took off the pin as a phoney symbol because he felt phoney in wearing it. He sites other phoney patriots but it's obvious it's himself he's talking about.


Shakespeare said it best when he said:
Much ado about nothing

Jeez,
I disagree with Obama taking off his 99 cent pin made in China. I think it's a little petty. But I'm 100x more disturbed by all the freaking out over it. Maybe he's right and we are way too obsessed over cheap symbols instead of substance.

We have a flag in front of our house
because it is not just a "mere symbol". Obama's explanation is just too sophisticated and tortured to have a true meaning. Methinks he is playing both sides and I detest that.

Savage99 7:21am
I agree with Savage99's post. (Not unusual, this gentleman is "rock-solid" in 99% of his comments. Also he likes a rifle that is an American Classic!)

Wearing or not wearing a lapel flag pin is not the point. It is WHY Obama is not wearing one. Savage99 nailed the reason Obama is not wearing one.

Sometimes I wear one, sometimes I don't. As "Thasic" writes in his 2:06am comment, the "US flag is emblazoned on my heart". The point to me of this article is why Obama is not wearing a lapel pin.

American flag lapel pins
Cannot recall who said it, but it is certainly true: "Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundral."

Beware of politician who warp themselves in the Amrican flag; they may have some of the money they stole from the Treasury under it.

Warrior

Scoundrals
"Patriotism is the last refuge of scoundrals"

The insanity continues...
Our country's flag, pin or waving high, is a symbol of honor, hope, and a most of all a representation of the men and women fighting for another country's freedom in the middle east. It seems the superior minded have to over think every minute situation, calculate every action, and feel above the average folk to prove that they should be running this country, for they are so much the thinkers. It makes me sick to my stomach.

Deconstructionism
I view the tortured logic of Mr. B. Hussein as a feeble exercise in deconstructionism. If patiotism is the last refuge of scoundrels, then deconstructionist logic is the natural home of a collectivist.

Obviously, B. Hussein could have kept that symbol on his lapel AND championed his cause--whatever it is.

There's a flag pin in a drawer somewhere in my house. This kerfluffle irritates me almost enough to make me hunt for it.

Only Logical
Obama should show his true patriotism and withdraw from the race.

Dolly Llama
"It's time for TownHall - and the country at large - to elevate its game."

I'm with you. Right on, huzzah, etc.

BTW - Nice handle

NoNoNo!
Econ 101 wants Obama out of the race. We need him there to drag Hillary "Rodman"** to the left. His presence limits her ability to pose as a moderate.

America's best hope may be for Algore to win that Nobel prize and take it as a mandate to declare, too. That should muddy the collectivist waters enough to waken the attention of those Lumpenvoters out there and make them realize the need to throw the Dems out.

**I know that "Rodman" is the correct pronunciation--I once heard The Reverand Jacksssson say it that way.

Symbolic Symbolisms
Whether or not Mr. Obama wears a flag pin on his lapel means nothing at all concerning his so-called patriotism or the lack thereof. His words have told me all I need to know. If he is elected President or holds any public office in a Democrat Administration, you will quickly know that he is NO American Patriot.

I fly the flag
everyday - and sometimes wear a flag pin. I love this country - past, present, and future. This country - its history and its people is represented around the world by our flag.

I remember being fairly young, and seeing on TV our flag being burned in Iran. It shocked me. They hated our country - they hated us - our history, our people. And how did they choose to show it? They burned our most recognized symbol -the flag.

And so, I choose to display our country's flag as a symbol of my love for this country - you can call it patriotism - and that does not make it any less sincere or some how not as "valid" as those who choose not to wear the flag pins or fly the flag, but instead choose to demonstrate their love of country by "speaking out" - by laying on the ground to protest the Iraq war or taking out full pages ads to insult a military leader, or plastering pink signs on buildings.






Agreement with Thasic & Frog
I agree this a trivial issue. If a someone wants to wear a lapel pin or not wear one, what is the big deal. There are many more important issues to deal with than this thing. Drop it and let's get onto something important. BTW, I would not vote for Obama for anything he was running for either!

Osama Obama
Is dropping like a one winged bird. Shillary keeps swerving to the right, so Osama Obama swerved to the left. His only hope of winning the nomination is to get the Drug Addled, Leftover Hippie, American Hating Communists to vote for him. The Normal Democrats (oxymoron?) will vote for Shillary.

Parker wrong on this one...
Symbolism is much of running for and performing the office of the President. We are talking about a man who claims he should be President yet cannot deign to wear a flag on his lapel that suggests he supports the troops and loves his country in time of war.

I suppose Parker would have no objections to Obama not putting his hand over his heart when they play the National Anthem,lest he be seen as tooooo patriotic?

I want my President to be the flag waver par excellence. Obama sounded like a teenager who was declaring his independence from his parents, not a future leader of this country.

for opditch
opditch writes: "We are reminded every day about our brave Military carrying this this flag on their shoulder into battle, the least we can do is follow their lead."

If you want to "follow their lead," there are more substantive ways to do that:

1. Enlist in the military yourself.

2. Donate money to charities to assist military families.

3. Donate blood to the Red Cross.

Wearing a flag pin or a "Support Our Troops" decal on your car is really a cheap cop-out. It gives you a way to claim you're being supportive, while not requiring you to do anything that might impact your cushy lifestyle, like risking your own life, giving your own blood or parting with substantial sums of your own money.

Because when you say our troops are "carrying our flag into battle," the operative word in that phrase is BATTLE, not FLAG. Our troops aren't there to just carry the flag around at parades. They're there to fight.

Except it is always mis-used
THS writes: 9:24 AM
Scoundrals
"Patriotism is the last refuge of scoundrals"
------------

By people such as you taking it out of context.
The statement when made by Johnson was about scoundrels.
Not Patriots.
Scoundrels like Kerry who take refuge in calling himself a Patriot.
And the host of others like him.

In other words the phony patriots like Rush spoke of.

for Seventh Degree
Seventh Degree writes: "We are talking about a man who claims he should be President yet cannot deign to wear a flag on his lapel that suggests he supports the troops and loves his country in time of war."

Here are some wartime Presidents who never wore flag pins: Abraham Lincoln (Civil War), Woodrow Wilson (World War I) and Franklin Roosevelt (World War II). All three wars ended in victory for America.

Wearing a flag pin to wear your patriotism on your lapel, actually started with the Nixon Administration. They invented it as a political ploy to connect patriotism with supporting the Administration's Vietnam War policy. As reporter Theodore H. White said at the time, the flag pin became like a varsity letter for the Republicans.

Obama should have reminded Americans of how this flag pin wearing business started out as a Nixon Administration political ploy. That might have helped his case.

Patriotism is...
It was said by Samuel Johnson and he proves his point every day by many of the posters on TH...one of which told me to get the f out of his country on another blog...how nice.




Great column, stupid issue
Kathleen Parker, this was one great column. The current exhibitionist rage in this country is, I believe, so popular because people think that wearing a flag or a fish symbol really means that they ARE patriotic or they ARE Christian, or at minimum that such symbols display for the world what they are feeling inside. Nothing could be further from the truth. People ARE what their actions and their words (and the consistency between the two, presumably) manifest them to be.

Even here on TH where everyone can be anonymous forever, some people are polite and respectful of their fellow commenters, even when their thoughts vary widely. Others are just full of spit and spite, and they can't stop themselves from calling people names and ranting and raving. I believe that everyone displays fairly fast what is on his inside, and no one needs a lapel pin or necklace to do that.

The Petty Politics Of Conservatives...
At times it is simply astonishing the pettiness
of conservatives here in TH. wheter one wears an american flag lapel pin? get real...you guys really need to get a life. lol

No Flag Pin For Me
Since Sean Hannity first celebrated our "Shock and Awe" bombing of Iraq by calling all who criticized Bush "traitors", we have had a national equation Bush=America=God, and to criticize one is to criticize all. However, it is possible to love America and yet despise Bush (prompted by Cheney) because he has defiled the honor of our beloved nation in so many ways. Perhaps those of us who refuse to wear a flag pin now are saying that we love America for what it has been up until the year 2000. Let the absence of the pin symbolize the present absence of such values as rule of law, transparent government, honoring our treaties, separation of church and state, and social compassion.

I wear the pin and fly the flag...and
I served in Vietnam, volunteered to go and am glad I did. When a soldier is approached by a person wearing a flag what do you think they feel? Think about it. Remember: "perception is everything"

Steve L.. I'm so ashamed...
Is it okay with you and Kathleen if I continue to use my "Support the Troops" decal and fly my flag if I can live up to your requirements for adequate patriotism? I mean, I don't want to have people thinking I'm some sort of pseudo patriot because I have the audacity to display a flag or promote the troops. It was my hope that by doing so I would convince other like-minded souls that they are not alone in their beliefs. I thought the flag and indications of troop support were positive things. I blush now that you have made me aware that I am merely being an exhibitionist, and that people who fly the flag or have magnetic stickers are just a flock of phonies who want to impress others.

You wrote "Wearing a flag pin or a "Support Our Troops" decal on your car is really a cheap cop-out. It gives you a way to claim you're being supportive, while not requiring you to do anything that might impact your cushy lifestyle, like risking your own life, giving your own blood or parting with substantial sums of your own money."

Well, as a guy that rejoined the Army just to deploy, thereby leaving my "cushy lifestyle" as a business executive in exchange for a role as a Sawgunner in a cavalry unit, having shed my blood in an IED hit, and having sacrificed well over $1 million over the 18 months I was gone (substantial enough for you?), I feel I can apply my magnet and fly my flag without criticism from you and ol' Kathleen.

As far as the others go, I'm glad to see them display their symbols. I support it, and I appreciate it. They are not intimidated by the self loathing segment of our nation that is ashamed of our flag. And with their magnets, they support the troops in spirit.

So, before you condemn these people because they have made none of your requisite sacrifices, you might take note as to how someone who has met all of your self righteous requirements feels about you.

Familiarity breeds contempt
And symbols, like words, when they are overused lose their power. It used to be that language such as "D---" and "S---" were shocking. They'd bring conversation to a stand-still, and EVERY EAR in the room would listen to the speaker, because obviously, he felt very strongly on the issue, and it was important enough to shock and awe the audience.

Now, even the F word doesn't shock anyone, any more, and people think nothing of toddlers spouting it off. It's "just a word," and has lost its power.

Likewise, symbols can lose thier power if overused. Fly the flag in front of your house? Wonderful. How often do you salute it as you walk by, or do you even notice it, any more? Do you actually NOTICE the lapel pin, or just miss it when it's gone?

I think the flag is a sacred symbol, and should always be treated with respect. Don't let it touch the ground. Don't turn it into an article of clothing to be spilled on, and perhaps sat upon. Don't overuse it. That way, when you DO decide to wear it, for a special occasion, such as Independence Day, or Memorial Day, or to show your respect and national grief after 9-11, it keeps its meaning. However, like the flags that flew at half mast after our national tragedy, they had to return to normal, eventually, or people would no longer notice the sign of respect.

make better use of the computers
A little off the subject, but good advice.

Well, maybe it’s because I first became interested in 1944 in the "pre-computer" business, and spent my pay-roll years helping put the men on the moon etc., but let’s make better use of the computers we have.

And here it is again, PLEASE!

Come on, commenters, use your return Key, over and over.

No one has time to read all this fascinating stuff in detail, so if the paragraphs are short, they can be scanned, if they are long, they should be, and are skipped.

=======

This may be of no interest to some, but I have found a way to spend my time efficiently as I read TH. I use ATT Yahoo Mail, and your system may be much different, but maybe you can find a way to do this.

First I click “View in descending order.”

Then I place the name of the day (Monday, Tuesday, etc.) in the Find box, then click Previous.

The first comment is at the bottom of the page, but for each additional click, the next comment is available to read, scan, or ignore, at the top of the screen. It works well for me.

Just one click take you from each comment to the next. Of course just click anywhere in the column, and you will start from there.

Any comments??

Obama was correct - Patriotism Overdone
The flag pin was a nice touch after 9/11, but after six years, it has gotten a little old. And most of the flag pin wearer's seem to be neocons who got us into a disasterous war. I noticed last night that only a few of the Republican candidates were wearing pins. America is a very patriotic country, and it is not necessary to wear a pin to be considered a patriot. Barack was right and he chose to be upfront about it instead of taking a PC approach. We don't want to get into a situation like Nazi Germany where if you're not wearing the Nazi flag pin, you're automatically considered to be subversive.

Symbols
Interesting article Kathleen. Senator Obama made a "symbol" of not wearing a "symbol." I find his logic laughable and twisted whenever I see him with giant American Flags behind him at his events. As to the overuse of symbols I agree. The leftists around here have them plastered all over their vehicles as a way to preach at people without having to support their views. I have no symbols on my car or person, by God's grace people who know me will be well aware of my convictions based on my actions not on what is or is not on my car.

Symbolism
Obama is a politician and, as such, his every feint, dodge, bob and weave is measured for effect before it is made. His decision to NOT wear the flag is just as much of an intended statement as his earlier decision to wear a flag. It is intended to cater to George Soros and his followers for some edge in a primary run. The flag pin, indeed the country, are merely tools to further his aspirations.

Here's A joke ...

http://kilroyreport.townhall.com/g/6abf9341-47e9-4f86-b471- 2fbcaa293ab1

but the real joke is on those who think this is some genuine expression of anything.

Great column
It's so refreshing to read someone on TH who is not all rhetoric and jingoism. Hooray!

The people who place alot of importance to lapel pins, bumper stickers, and tattered flags on trucks are not going to vote for Obama anyway. This is a symbolic gesture, of course, but it carries alot more heft than empty symbolism, which doesn't mean anything except to the people who confuse it with reality.

Seventh Degree - I agree!
Here here on your Wednesday, October, 10, 2007 10:47 AM post. My sentiments exactly.

SteveL - how DARE you question anyone's motives for wearing a flag pin or support the troops sticker or flying the flag outside their home. Why should they have fulfill your list of items before they can "qualify" to say - "Hey, I'm proud to be an American!"

What I don't see is the presidential candidates on the right side of the aisle questioning those out there who slap "peace" stickers on their cars, or "stop the war - support the troops" signs on their front lawns. Now, what are they doing to further peace or stop the war. Maybe that's a cheap cop-out as well.

Lilly - of course *you* don't wear a US flag pin. That goes without saying.

Hiding Behind Symbols
The fact is republicans have confused certain symbols with things for a long time; a lapel pin with patriotism, a magnetic car sticker with supporting the troops, a fish with religion. And they are so used to hiding behind their symbols, they even started hiding behind people they have turned into symbols, like General Petraeus. While wearing a symbol should be a personal preference, the Symbol Party has made it a requirement. Remember; saying it, thinking it and wearing it doesn't make it so.

No Pin No Patriotism
He is all ready starting to show his true colors and it's not Red, White, or Blue! People on the left always feel that it is what ever they want not what the country needs! Right now we need the Red, White and Blue showing where ever it can be! Our sons and daughters are dying so that Mr. Obama can talk his talk and walk his walk.
To me that says it all! I for one will not be voting for this guy!

Dolly lama: LOL
"It's not enough for a politician
to kiss babies any more; they have to give tongue. Patriotism is a virtue, but ostentatious displays of it are offensive."

LOL! "Empathy" is a virtue, but ostentatious displays of "concern" (e.g., all three (3) Democrat presidential candidates offering three (3) different flavors of socialized medicine) are appallingly offensive.

Wayne said
"The fact is republicans have confused certain symbols with things for a long time; a lapel pin with patriotism, a magnetic car sticker with supporting the troops, a fish with religion."

Right on -- and, the problem is that it leads to thinking only in Symbols, which are just a short-cut to vague ideas and emotions and result in confusion.

One of my favorite examples is: If you burn a piece of fabric with stars and stripes that has been sewn into slippers it's OK, if you burn a piece of fabric with stars and stripes that has just been sewn to make grommets and hems, it should be a crime.

Hiding behind "Social Eng"
"Wayne writes: Wednesday, October, 10, 2007 2:38 PM
Hiding Behind Symbols
The fact is republicans have confused certain symbols with things for a long time; a lapel pin with patriotism, a magnetic car sticker with supporting the troops, a fish with religion. And they are so used to hiding behind their symbols, they even started hiding behind people they have turned into symbols, like General Petraeus. While wearing a symbol should be a personal preference, the Symbol Party has made it a requirement. Remember; saying it, thinking it and wearing it doesn't make it so."

Really? As opposed to the “Group entitlement/Group debt” Party and their “Thought Police.” In most work places these days if you take an overt principled stand against “institutional racism/sexism”, i.e., Affirmation Action/quotas, you will have provided your employers with ample grounds for dismissal- especially if you have offended the tender sensibilities of one the beneficiaries of said entitlement. Supporting “social engineering” experiments should be a personal preference, but the “Group entitlement/Group debt” Party has made it a requirement for good citizenship just like their national socialist forbearers. Remember, you can intimidate me into silence, but that doesn’t mean you’ve changed my mind.

Social Engineering
Wayne writes: Wednesday, October, 10, 2007 2:38 PM
Hiding Behind Symbols
The fact is republicans have confused certain symbols with things for a long time; a lapel pin with patriotism, a magnetic car sticker with supporting the troops, a fish with religion. And they are so used to hiding behind their symbols, they even started hiding behind people they have turned into symbols, like General Petraeus. While wearing a symbol should be a personal preference, the Symbol Party has made it a requirement. Remember; saying it, thinking it and wearing it doesn't make it so.

Really? As opposed to the “Group entitlement/Group debt” Party and their “Thought Police.” In most work places these days if you take an overt principled stand against “institutional racism/sexism”, i.e., Affirmation Action/quotas, you will have provided your employers with ample grounds for dismissal- especially if you have offended the tender sensibilities of one the beneficiaries of said entitlement. Supporting “social engineering” experiments should be a personal preference, but “Group entitlement/Group debt” Party has made it a requirement for good citizenship just like their national socialist forbearers. Remember, you can intimidate me into silence, but that doesn’t mean you’ve changed my mind.

Again
why do people feel the need to trash only *certain* symbols - like our country's flag (in pin form or other) or a Christian symbol - like a fish. I don't see those critics screeching about the crescent and moon, or the dove. And what about pentagrams, the peace symbol, the "recycle" symbol, or symbol for "women" or "men" - or even - the donkey.

Why is it suddenly so offensive for someone to wear a flag pin or fly a flag? If you don't like it, lump it.

Obfuscation
I think there are many who are naturally confused by Obama and the hybrid they now encounter on the campaign trail. His senate voting record does not match his moderate stage presence throughout the debates. Though the questioning may be 'clumsy', how does it differ from the 'clumsy' question asked of Huckabee during one of the televised debates concerning evolution v. creationism? The point of these clumsy questions is to marginalize the candidate in (as you suggest) a symbolic way. The 'gotcha' attitude of the questioner is a symptom of a much larger issue: how do we get candidates to disclose who they are in an entertaining, in-your-face way. The American public cannot sit still long enough to listen to answers of substance so the media provides the circus format to entertain and then calls it political participation and discourse. These debates are unserious (You Tube Snowman) and tell us nothing about how the candidate will govern. They merely tell us what the latest poll is suggesting concerning the fickle, peevish public and how well the chameleons can adapt.

Flag Pin
Since all the Dems are for open borders, amnesty and health care for illegals I think the ones who want this should wear a Mexican flag on their lapel. Same goes for any Rep who endorses this. I will wear my flag proudly. To me it means you love your country no matter what.

Demosthenes
I don't see how your post has anything to do with symbolic objects and what they represent. Can you enlighten me?

Who is the Socialist?
Demosthenes writes:

"Supporting “social engineering” experiments should be a personal preference, but the “Group entitlement/Group debt” Party has made it a requirement for good citizenship just like their national socialist forbearers.

You must be writing of President Bush and the recently right-controlled congress. They increased the government's involvement in healthcare (prescription drug plan), and spending (more than all the previous administrations combined) and domestic spying (without oversight: Stalin would be so proud). So when you mention socialist you must be writing about your party and the president.

And your last line:

"Remember, you can intimidate me into silence, but that doesn’t mean you’ve changed my mind."

I don't get it?

Bess2728 said
"why do people feel the need to trash only *certain* symbols - like our country's flag (in pin form or other) or a Christian symbol - like a fish. I don't see those critics screeching about the crescent and moon, or the dove. And what about pentagrams, the peace symbol, the "recycle" symbol, or symbol for "women" or "men" - or even - the donkey."
--------------------
First of all, Bess, nobody is trashing symbols - the issue is about overusing them so they lose their meaning. The fact is, I don't see an overuse of crescents and moons (?!) pentagrams (mostly used in made-for-TV movies) --doves are an almost universal symbol of peace, stemming from the OT, the symbols for "men" and "women" are from medicine and science and the "recycle" symbol indicates which containers we can throw into the bin. I have not seen any of these symbols on bumpers, lapels, car windows, yellow pages ads, cheap jewelry, and certainly I haven't seen anybody use them as a way to prove they are loyal Americans or Christians (well, maybe the dove).

In my personal experience, liberals are not as symbol-oriented. To say that one's religious beliefs or political opinions are more complicated than a flag tied to a truck antenna or a chorme fish on a bumper is more of a liberal viewpoint.

Wellll eeeccccuuuuse me
touj - for my choice of vocab.

First of all, touj., You missed *my* point - and *I* have seen pentagrams, recycle symbols, rainbows, women signs, peace signs all over bumper stickers - to show that the support or are or want to be whatever these symbolize. Most of these are also accompanied with an anti-Bush, anti-Iraq war bumper sticker as well. Definately left-leaning. I think you you take off your left-viewing glasses, you'll see them as well. It can't be just up here in New England that they exist. And yes, they are all overused and are charged with meaning. I have also seen the men and women signs and the peace signs on many pieces of "cheap jewelry" - go to any state fair or "Goddess shop."

Oh, the crescent and the moon - symbol of Islam.



grammar correction
lest I get flamed for typos

"to show that the support or are or want to be whatever these symbolize" should be

to show that they support or are or want to be whatever these symbols mean"

Have fun discussion - off to feed my family.

Perhaps
Perhaps it should actually be a rule that Presidential candidates where a lapel pin. I think one the attributes of the American flag is to teach humility, respect for one's country, and patriotism.

No matter where each Presidential candidate stands in regards to his or her own patriotism, I would think they would relish the opportunity to learn these great character traits as they stand in a place of honor before their country. Even the far left could learn humility, respect for one's country, and patriotism.


Removing It Was A Symbol
I don't really care whether Barack wears a flag pin or not, but removing it was a very symbolic statement to his base, many of whom would never wear such a pin and who purport to "love America, but hate what it has become". We've been told as nauseum how brilliant he is. To believe he did not know the meaning of the gesture is naive at best.

If nothing else, he knows that people who would appreciate someone wearing a flag pin are probably not going to vote for him in any case, and that his base might be angered enough by his wearing one to not vote for him.

Some people like to wear flag pins to show support for the troops, and I think one needs go no further than this article to realize that the troops appreciate the gesture. Not rocket science. Accordingly, it would have been nice if, instead of taking a jab at those who DO choose to wear a pin with his "false patriotism" spin, he could have just commented that he loves his country and that he has decided to wear a flag pin upon special occasions, or whatever.

Incidentally, I think we are at war, and have troops in harm's way. No one has to wear a flag pin, it is a free country; but considering the politicians are the ones who make the ultimate decisions to fight and fund the troops' movements, putting on a flag pin in support of them doesn't seem to be a huge imposition.

Whatever else, symbols are
not trivial. Think of the nooses on the Jena tree. A burning cross. A crucifix. A swasticka. There is a specific reason i do not care to wear a swasticka armband. It respresents something i do not care to support. Not everyone who does not wear an American flag has similar motivation. Some do.

Dawncy
and Mom's apple pie.

Savage99
We don't agree on much, but your point about the power of symbols is really true, and the ones you cited were good examples. Another powerful symbol for most people is, of course, the crucifix...it has fueled entire religious movements.

But I think the point here is that when they are overused they become empty, and sometimes even caracitures of what they are supposed to stand for - I think this is what has happened to the chrome bumper-fish. Nooses and burning cross have retained their power, I think for two reasons - one, they inspire horror and symbolize hatred, which are generally more powerful emotions than christian-love, and second, I think they have been used with more (negative to be sure) discrimination. We don't see them on every flagpole or lapeland have not become de-sensitized.

In my first college art class a professor was trying to explain the power of image - he had a number of students come up and instructed them to poke a hole through a paper that revealed an image of Christ. This was a while ago, and things might be different today, but none of them could, even though it was just a photocopy on a piece of paper.


I have also found, Charles....
That those you wave Bibles around, have fish on their bumpers, and wear crucifixes are much more charitable than those who argue that those symbols are meaningless.

Again, who are you to judge what is the least someone can do?

Oh, here's another symbol that I don't see the leftists criticizing - the coathanger pins that many pro-abortion people wear or paint on their signs. *That* is an oversued symbol as well.

Those anti-Bush, anti-Iraq war, recycle, peace bumper stickers many times on large SUVs.

Those in glass houses....

St. Agnes in Rome
Well, you can talk about the "fish symbol" all you want. I have never had one of those labels on me or on my car.

But in 1980, when we visited Rome and the Vatican, we toured the catacombs at the church of St. Agnes in Rome.

I will admit is was thrilling to see that "fish symbol" carved on the wall in the catacombs at St. Agnes.

As we always did for 87,000 miles during 9 visits to Europe we were driving a RV. At St. Agnes we met a group of girls from the US, then took them with us in the RV back across town to the Vatican.

We found a parking place on a sidewalk in the Vatican, and watched and listened as the Pope talked in several languages.

We were too far away to get a good photo with our small film camera, but I borrowed a set of binoculars from a neighbor, and I have the most unusual photo of the Pope you have never seen.

==========

Maybe I am nuts compared to most other posters, but I like a story like this much better than the Bit*ch and moan, and name calling found too often on Blogs on either side of the political chasm.

=========

Just a hint, travel-tidbits.c**

BUSH EPITAPH

“Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel." --Samuel Johnson

Flag pins and symbols
Kathleen misses something about the "Yellow Ribbons on our SUV's". Some of us had these symbols on our cars, our lapels and our homes long before 9/11. To us, it is those who put the flag symbol on, then took it off as the years went by without more terror attacks and the almighty New York Times turned against the troops who are the true "phoney soldiers" (to borrow Rush's phrase). So don't look down your nose at those of us with flag poles and lapel pins. We were the visable patriots before (and now after) it was fashionable.

Touj
If you are a good-hearted person who does the best he(she) knows how, we have more in common than you are probably aware. The vast huge majority of humans see and wish to cure the same problems. Disagreement arises as to the best course of action to do this. Holding differing opinions does not make one evil or even stupid. Taking action that injures others leads to counter action and the escalation begins. In most cases its best to remember one is dealing with a fellow positive human. NOt in all. People like Hitler did and do exist, and sadly carry many a decent person with them. Decisions can surely get tough.

Patriotism
Yup, Obama wear the pin. When in rome, just do it. Americans have short memories. The dems don'twant those planes shown much on TV or talked about much. It reminds people what others did to us. The dems would like nothing better than to lose this war in Iraq. They don't just disagree with President Bush, they have a devil
hate for him. They with their hidden raising of taxes will find out when and if they get in, its not that easy to run a country on lies and hidden interests. We are all in this together. Close the borers, protect and serve us Americans. And Never, Never forget what others have done to us. Payback can be horrific.

Who F-In Cares!
My lord I flipped on the increasingly annoying O'Reilly Factor last night to see that 60% of his viewers thought that this is a big deal. We really are a nation of sheepeole if this is distracting us from the impending doom of our constitution.

One side is so fixed on turning everything into socialism while the other is fighting for facism. So many of you are distracted into thinking a freakin pin on a lapel is any significance, that politicians are shredding the constitution while we debate trival issues. Scary.

Actions are louder than words
Simple.... Which do you believe more, what people say or what people do?
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