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Friday, July 06, 2007
Kathleen Parker :: Townhall.com Columnist
Bogarting Sanity in the Marijuana Wars
by Kathleen Parker
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WASHINGTON -- News that Al Gore's 24-year-old son, Al Gore III, was busted for pot and assorted prescription pills has unleashed a torrent of mirth in certain quarters.

Gore-phobes on the Internet apparently view the son's arrest and incarceration as comeuppance for the father's shortcomings. Especially rich was the fact that young Al was driving a Toyota Prius when he was pulled over for going 100 mph -- just as Papa Gore was set to preside over concerts during a 24-hour, seven-continent Live Earth celebration to raise awareness about global warming.

Whatever one may feel about the former vice president's environmental obsessions, his son's problems are no one's cause for celebration. The younger Gore's high-profile arrest does, however, offer Americans an opportunity to get real about drug prohibition, and especially about marijuana laws.

For the record, I have no interest in marijuana except as a public policy matter. My personal drug of choice is a heavenly elixir made from crushed grapes. But it is, alas, a drug.

Tasty, attractive and highly ritualized in our culture, wine and other alcoholic beverages are approved for responsible use despite the fact that alcoholism and attendant problems are a plague, while responsible use of a weed that, at worst, makes people boring and hungry, is criminal.

Pot smokers might revolt if they weren't so mellow.

Efforts over the past few decades to relax marijuana laws have been moderately successful. Twelve states have decriminalized marijuana, which usually means no prison or criminal record for first-time possession of small amounts for personal consumption. (Those states are: Alabama, California, Colorado, Maine, Minnesota, Mississippi, Nebraska, Nevada, New York, North Carolina, Ohio and Oregon.)

Yet even now, federal law enforcement agents raid the homes of terminally ill patients who use marijuana for relief from suffering in states where medical marijuana use is permitted. These federal raids have become an issue in the 2008 presidential race as candidates have been asked to take a position. A summary is available on the Marijuana Policy Project Web site (mpp.org).

Beyond the medical issue is the practical question of criminalizing otherwise good citizens for consuming a nontoxic substance -- described by the British medical journal Lancet as less harmful to health than alcohol or tobacco -- at great economic and social cost. Each year, more than 700,000 people are arrested for marijuana-related offenses at a cost of more than $7 billion, according to the Marijuana Policy Project.

Here's a Bingo thought for people concerned about the federal deficit, America's 4.5 million uninsured children or our soon-to-be-bankrupt Social Security system:

If marijuana were legalized, regulated and taxed at the rates applied to alcohol and tobacco, revenues would reach about $6.2 billion annually, according to an open letter signed by 500 economists who urged President Bush and other public officials to debate marijuana prohibition. Among those economists were three Nobel Prize winners, including the late Milton Friedman of Stanford's Hoover Institution.

Friedman and others were acting in response to a 2005 report on the budgetary implications of marijuana prohibition by Jeffrey Miron, visiting professor of economics at Harvard. By Miron's estimate, regulating marijuana would save about $7.7 billion annually in government prohibition enforcement -- $2.4 billion at the federal level and $5.3 billion at the state and local levels.

That's a lot of money for English tutors and health care for indigents. Add to that amount income taxes that would have to be paid by marijuana producers. Drug dealers don't pay taxes, after all. Nor do they concern themselves much with rules of the workplace and worker welfare. Miron argues that legalizing marijuana would not increase use because decriminalization hasn't increased use. But, he says, legalization would reduce crime by neutralizing dealers and eliminating the violent black market.

Legalizing marijuana isn't an endorsement of underage or irresponsible use.

Best would be that everyone deal with life unmedicated, but adults arguably have a right to amuse themselves in ways that don't harm others.

While some may balk at the idea of legalized pot, it seems clear that some remedy is in order. At the very least, a fresh, freewheeling debate free of politics and bureaucratic self-interest is overdue.

Maybe Al Gore could moderate.

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About The Author
Kathleen Parker is a syndicated columnist with the Washington Post Writers Group.
 
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Serious problems with the marijuana issu
Cops coming after sick and old people while letting addicts go free. Makes no sense at all.


crime will go down
I agree that crime will go down and money saved if pot is decrim-ed but I would like to see reliable studies showing that marajuana use would not go up very much. I don't trust the mere assumption that since some states have decriminalized and use has not risen that use would not necessarily rise if it were nationally decriminalized (and thus de-stigmatized).
But, it is a good issue to discuss.

The numbers have changed
The numbers have changed since I wrote an editorial for my high school paper saying basically the same things Ms. Parker said, but that's all.

In twenty years all that's changed is the numbers have gone up: more criminal records, more work for the cops, more money down the toilet. I tend to disfavor things that don't work, like the last couple decades of drug polices.

Never happen
Never happen. To many peoples income are dependent on this remaining illegal. On both sides of the law.

Maria
BINGO! Money does seem to have a very loud voice.

sounds great
But as a former drug dealer/ user [its been years] I must think that nothing has changed in that world that I was a part of once. But it is true that if you remove the profit the black market will cease to exist. But this will not happen, as too many folks earn a living from drugs being illegal, from the Narcotics Task Force of your local PD to the probation "rehab" places that pay kickbacks to the politicions that award the contracts. As usual, the little guy loses.

Marijuana
The article sounds great, but not all that sounds great is. We would save a billion or two dollars with legalization, but how much would be spent on the consequences? The fact that I drink alcoholic beverages and smoked for years doesn't prevent me from asking how many billions of dollars alcoholism and smoking cost the govenment. Is it a trade off, with profit from taxes being spent on care for victims, the winners being federal and state bureaucrats, the losers being the winos begging on the streets of every city? Why legalize a known evil before we know the consequences of its continued use? Bill D.

Nice spin
"Yet even now, federal law enforcement agents raid the homes of terminally ill patients who use marijuana for relief from suffering in states where medical marijuana use is permitted"

These raids oddly result in the seizure of large quantities of product. Charges of possession with intent to distribute. Imagine that!

We don't need another legal drug to abuse. Look at the immense harm alcohol has brought to our society. Anybody out there who doesn't know someone who has ruined their life with alcohol?

Al Gore should be the poster child for keeping drugs illegal. Do you really want more of them on the road?


But Al Gore III Has Married Two-Gender
parents! How can this be! Isn't ALL crime caused by the children of single mothers? BUT YOU TOLD ME THE OTHER DAY THAT THE ONLY CRIMINALS ARE BORN TO SINGLE MOTHERS!

How can you have deceived me so?

Al Gore III had wealthy, long-married parents, one Father and one Mother, married by the church according to the Law of the Land -- and HE STILL GOT ARRESTED FOR SPEEDING AND POSSESSION OF ILLEGAL DRUGS?

No, that cannot be true. Go back and check again. Surely that was not Al Gore III, it was some desperately poor child of a single mother on welfare and the Prius he was driving was stolen.

Just like those who keep on bleating that all terrorists are desperately poor people oppressed by The Man, those who have only one string to their harps frequently find that reality hoists them by their own petard. Personally I like it when that happens.

The only people
who benefit from today's drug laws are the people who sell drugs (keep the prices high) and those on the "side of the law" who take bribes for lighter sentencing, or who take the drugs and sell them themselves. We just had a sheriff near here convicted of selling the drugs for which he had arrested other people. Not a one-time deal, either; it has been going on for years. I'm sure it happens all over the country.

Gore's arrest
This is no cause for poking fun or criticizing Al Gore 2. Even though I'm no fan, this is a sad and stressful thing for parents to go through.
I remember when I was a kid in the 70's. The cops would come to school and tell us that pot was a "gateway drug". They never really explained it but after so many years of seeing people I know smoking and the consequences I do. Once a kid tried smoking pot they figure that that didn't do anything to them so why not try this drug or that? I've seen smart kids become apathetic after getting into smoking pot and have their good grades go down the toilet. I've seen kids' attitudes change from smoking pot. No, it shouldn't be legal. It is harmful.
Alcohol abuse is harmful too. We've all seen people abuse alcohol. It wrecks peoples' lives who don't want to give it up. We don't need another legal way to put ourselves into a state of oblivion. The big difference between pot and alcohol...alcohol is the strongest drug in that category but pot is one of the mildest and there are many strong, more addictive drugs for the pot smoker to give a try.

The moral reason we ban pot
Robert Bork, who is a noted social conservative, has defended the laws against any and all use of marijuana, from a cultural perspective.

In his book "Slouching Toward Gomorrah," Bork correctly points out that each drug has a particular social context: Wine is consumed at religious rituals, cigarette holders used to be the height of women's fashion, etc.

As Bork points out, marijuana is the drug of youthful rebellion. It was and still is associated with the counterculture of the 1960's: "Make love, not war," the Beatles, the hippies, the antiwar movement, etc. It is still consumed more by the young than by the elderly.

Society keeps marijuana illegal as a social and moral statement that the counterculture won't be allowed to take over America (at least not outside the Blue State coasts). It is also a reminder to the young (pot-smoking) people of America that they should obey their elders.

Personally, I don't buy into the entire culture war concept; I don't think morality divides up so neatly between Red States and Blue States.

As Obama points out, there are still houses of worship in the Blue States, and they still get plastered and have sex in the Red States.

But if you do buy Bork's arguments that America is headed for a Gomorrah of moral decay, then marijuana is just one more symbol of that.

Unintended consequences

If marijuana is legalized, I expect to see more cases of DUI, not detectable by Breathalyzer.

And yes if it is a pain killer, etc, it inhibits judgment just like alcohol. Go ahead, legalize it, then tax it at double the rate of cigarettes.

One more point, only one person so far has mentioned the prescription drugs (with out proper authorization) that young Gore had in his possession. They are more of a concern that the weed.

to the venerable AudiR10
My dear Audi, I do have the highest respect for your opinions, and for how wonderfully you raised your children, but please do calm down (re: your comments on both this and several other threads--my respect for you has kept me from speaking up till now). Come now. No one said that criminals are ONLY from single parent homes.

You cannot deny that the wonderful childrearing job you did would have been **just a bit** easier with a good, loving, supportive husband around. That for whatever reason you did not have this additional support only makes the great job you did all the more worthy of respect. Not everyone does the fine job you did when they are rearing children all by themselves--it's just plain harder to do.

Back on topic, marijuana use does indeed lead to use of other, harder drugs, and as someone else has pointed out, it tends to lead to poorer performance in school or work because (hello!) it makes you just not care. If I **could** know that my accountant, or doctor, or surgeon (!) smoked pot I would find another one so fast it would make his or her head spin. That is if he or she even noticed, or cared, in his or her mellowed out state.

AND THEN THERE WERE . . .
Senator Phillip Hart, Michigan Democrat and World War II veteran, who, when one of his sons was busted for marijuana, I recall, introduced legislation to decriminalize marijuana.

Congresswoman Geraldine Ferraro, who, if I remember correctly, was said to have said in effect after her son, John Zacaro, Jr., was convicted and sentenced on drug charges, "You'd like to think that at that age they're old enough to know better".

legalize it?
ok, but you should only be allowed to smoke it while restrained by a seatbelt and wearing a helmet. Except for people riding on buses, riding onback of garbage trucks, riding horses, riding in boats or PWC's.....yup, let's be fair if we approve of this.

More to the point
The news yesterday stated that AlGore From The Planet Eco MK III has been busted five times for;

-driving under the influence (alcohol and other drugs)

-possession (marijuana and prescription drugs)

-drunk and disorderly.

This does not include his various citations for unsafe vehicle operation.

My question is, when you are the favored offspring of a rich, well-connected, politically-correct "progressive" political leader, how many times do you have to get busted for the same basic offense before you (a) get tagged as an habitual offender and (b) get the treatment the law usually mandates for same?

"Three Strikes And You're Out" apparently does not apply to the Son of the Goracle.

And the Goracle apparently doesn't understand that his son has a problem that has nothing to do with global warming, anthrogenic or otherwise.

And in a related note, I'm still trying to figure out how he got a Toyota Prius up to 100 mph.

(Downhill with a tailwind?)


cheers

eon

Al III
I agree that the laws are archaic concerning Al III's favorite pasttime, driving and drugging at high speeds. He will not be using a Public Defender and forced by high legal costs to plea bargain like over 90% of the "Pot" cases are. Selective prosecution targets the poor, while the rich are well defended in court. Poor pot smokers are scalps on Nifong type DA's who want a "tough" record on crime. In the meantime, bureaucrats pad their pockets with contributions from crime families proxies to keep pot illegal. It is the DA's cash crop for continued reelection. I have seen it from the inside and was an agent...corruption has bought our legal system..pot smokers are less dangerous than rapists, murders, etc....to stoned to fight back. Al II can count on a friendly Judge and some crocodile tears in court to get his eventual "slap on the wrist". Al II must be proud!!!! Grandmaster Ro

Drugs
The other drugs in this young man's possession are more of a concern than the pot. He needs to face up to his problems and get help. I'm sure having his famous father didn't help, but then you can only whine about your sad childhood so long. After a while it becomes your responsibility. The sooner you face that and build your own life, the better off you will be.

WoD:declare victory and stand down.
The decades-long 'War on Drugs', like the decades-long 'War on Poverty' has succeeded in spending vast amounts of taxpayers' money and establishing vast overweening bureaucracies, and has been a demonstrable force in destabilizing our society. Has either been successful in eradicating - or even diminishing the societal ills for which they were established?

What the WoD did was create a huge new criminal class, aimed local enforcement efforts primarily at the small-time dealers, overcrowd local prisons, and yet, by its very ineffectiveness, encourage user scofflaws to go their merry way.

If marijuana were sold at the local ABC store, we'd have the considerable tax revenue, we'd free the cops to go after more dangerous criminals, and we'd be freed from our futile puritanical windmill-tilting efforts.

Study after study has shown that those who abuse mind-altering substances will, if the first substance of choice is unavailable, find another, equally impairing one. There is a given percentage of the population that is, for whatever reason, mentally and emotionally incapable of dealing with 'psychic pain.' These folk WILL treat it, with alcohol, marijuana, prescription drugs, bathtub gin, or even aftershave lotion. If we legalize weed, we merely allow some who would otherwise pickle their livers to legally mellow out on MJ instead. There are, likely, not very many sturdy, righteous teetotalers who would become stoners, just because it became legal.

The ones who are really anti-legalization are those who are making money off this stupid war. And no, I'm not a user. However, if Ms.Parker wants to join me for a nice glass of fermented grape juice, that would be lovely.

Collin writes
I don't trust the mere assumption ...that use would not necessarily rise if it were nationally decriminalized (and thus de-stigmatized).
But, it is a good issue to discuss.

I as far as I know (which admittedly is not much) you have to smoke dope. With the anti-smoking campaign, smoking has decreased and I for one wouldn't smoke dope just because it was legal. Every knows cocaine is addictive and I wouldn't use it either if it was decriminalized.

reply to SteveL
Robert Bork states the correct conservative position on this issue; Parker has been drinking too much wine and it's made her needlessly liberal. Sober up, Katheleen! Ideally, conservatives should support banning all substances the use of which is often associated with immorality. Conservatism should stand for something, after all, and you folks just can't support legalizing marijuana. Such a policy violates the laws of God and who knows what else.

I'm not going to hold my breath until conservatives get behind legalizing weed; it ain't gonna happen.

Marijuana-Some floks just don't get it.
I don't normally respond, I just read, but I couldn't pass this up. Marijuana is not a harmless drug and most of the THC will remain in your brain for the rest of your life. Remember, it's a fat soluable drug and our waste system is water soluable. It can cause the brain to stop producing an essential neurotransmitter called Anandamide, which is our bodies own natural cannabinold. It diminishes the learning curve and freezes the intelectual level. How do you suppose that will effect a teenager who smokes at 15 when their brain is not fully developed until age 20 for girls and 24 for boys? The British have been on a campaign for 10 years to legalize this drug and now you should read what they are saying about "Skunk", the popular variety. One study estimates that by 2010, almost a quarter of all new cases of schizophrenia would stem from cannabis smoking(The Independent, 25 March 2007). If this drug is leagalized there will be a bigger black market than exists today. That pack of "reefer" that we would buy from the 7-Eleven would only contain about 10% THC when other varieties like "skunk" will contain twice that amount. So we haven't seen anything yet as far as black market is concerned. Besides, why not just grow your own which is what we would do and where is the windfall tax coming from then? The proof is in the pudding, brain images clearly show pitting and scaring from this drug and the damge is long term. If we would just do our homework and avoid some of these knee jerk reactions, we just might learn something. If it is a good drug, let's legalize it, if it isn't then please don't compare it to other drugs, ie. alcohol that are leagal that cause problems. Do you want your children to use it? If you do it, they will to because if it's good enough for Mom and Dad, it's good enough for me.

A III
Gasp! I agree with Al Gore! It is a personal matter. Unless he uses his influence to get him off (using his wealth is fair game- hey, life is easier when you are rich- deal with it!).
Besides, if my father were a corpulent, blow-hard, empty suit that is as stupid as W or Dan Quayle was ever claimed to be, I'd do drugs too.

wait a minute!
Hey...this doped up guy was driving 100 miles an hour in MY neighborhood on freeways where MY friends and family drive and I'm supposed to feel sorry for him and all those who are driving around under the influence? So we should legalize his juice so there would be more money to take care of illegals and pander to terrorists?
What planet do you bleeding hearts come from, anyway?

What the cahnces
What is the chance that AG III will use to the same law firm that the younger Kennedy used after bashing the concrete barriers in DC on his way to a midnight vote?

All sorts of reasons to legalise..
..not the least of which is the fact that the majority of intelligent people, as demonstrated by the regular readers of Townhall, endorse at the very least the decriminalisation of pot.

The best approach to resolving the monetary waste of the war on marijauna, not forgetting the fact that about 50% of prisoners in the U.S. are serving marujauna-related sentences and which represents a heavy burden on the taxpayer, is to market under license little growing kits including a fertile seed, a clear plastic enclosed pot with growing medium, and complete instructions on how to get the best yield through cultivation and pruning. In other words, encourage users to grow their own and let Uncle Sam deal with the real evils of cocaine and heroin. Grass is a soft drug, not conducive to anti-social behaviour, stimulating to the creative intellect, especially the comical one, and conducive to keeping people at home once they've smoked a joint, which is where most people should be most of the time.

The real reason that marijauna isn't getting decriminalised is that the mob enjoys the efforts of the DEA to bust marijauna growers and users, which, incidentally is for the most part a local and national affair and does not involve importation to the extent that cocaine and heroin does, which two are exclusively imported drugs. All that effort is diverting attention away from those serious drug dealers, and we all know that as much money in heroin can be can be earned from an attache case full of that stuff as is required to fill a one and a half ton truck full of marijauna.

If all the efforts to combat illegal marijauna operations were directed toward combatting heroin and cocaine operations then I can gaurantee that American productivity would rise and the real evils that trouble the nation would recede farther from the mainstream.

Furthermore, and this is important, the legal use and growing of high quality marijauna with a low amount of undesirable residual content and a pleasant high can become universal, whereas there are now any of over a hundred different varieties being distributed illegally, many of which carry about the same hazardous health risks as tobacco. Think about it. We'd actually be doing the health of Americans a favor by permitting the use of marijauna under the same rules and regulations as are allowed alchohol and tobacco.






Are we free or not?
Drug laws, helmet laws, seatbelt laws, etc...
are designed to "protect you from your self"

If this a free society then I as a free citizen
should be able to engage in what ever stupid and self distructive activity I chose, provided I do no harm to others.

This prohabition is nothing more than the nanny state's ownership you fron cradle to grave.

Citizen X
I must disagree, the helmet laws and seatbelt laws are to protect me from you.

I'm tired of my insurance and taxes going up because Bubba smacked a pole with his head and spent 5 years in the hospital (no insurance) when if he had had a helmet, he would have had a headache. The failure to buckle up frequently causes harm to others, either physically or financially.

If if it's legal
Even if pot is legal, people will abuse it, (minors, DUI, etc). Don't think so, check out the Navajo Reservation sometime. Their drug of choice is alcohol.

baudrunner
All due respect to your opinions, but you've obviously never seen Bill Cosby's brilliant and hilarious demonstration of just exactly how "stimulating to the creative intellect" pot really is.

It's on his video "Bill Cosby Himself" if anyone's interested. The whole show's LOL-funny (and clean) BTW.

Not Harmless
While I am not sure of the best way to reduce drug abuse, lets not kid ourselves about the effects of cannabis on the human brain. Yes, it does cause the munchies, but it also reduces motivation, impairs judgement, messes up your memory, and sometimes makes you paranoid.

I was a professional musician and music director for ten years, and saw the effects of this garbage first-hand. I have seen truly brilliant players who either were either too "laid-back" to learn their parts properly, or simply kept forgetting the instructions they were given before the show. Yes, there are a lot of rock stars who smoke the stuff, but they have enough money to hire people to cover their butts. What you see of their drug use is not the reality for the typical musician, whose career options are limited by their habits.

Studies have shown a link between cannabis use and schizophrenia (the paranoia I spoke of). As the brother of a schizophrenic, I can assure that it is hell.

Finally, it is my belief that the use of pot can so damage someone's brain as to render them incurably liberal, impervious to criticism and logic. If that doesn't scare you straight, I don't know what will.

Packrat
While I agree that Bubba is costing you and me in the form of higher taxes, insurance rates.

This because Bubba is not held accountable for his actions; example if I am injured at work and fail the mandatory drug test my insurer will refuse to pay. I made the choice, I pay the price.

This accountability is not present in public pollicy.

Long Term Effects of Pot?
I give you YRMML!

Hey collin
OF course pot use will go up if decriminalized. The increase will come from currently law abiding former tokers, responsible people who know when to stop and who won't be losing their jobs because they'd rather get high.

Those types are already getting stoned so decriminalizing won't do any damage.

Time to legalize and regulate
The tendency of big government social conservatives to legislate self-defined values will be the death of our conservative movement, if we allow it. It's time to reign these guys in. Just say no to big government, be it from the left, or from the right!!

modern day Pharases
I don't drink or smoke pot or use any illegal drugs. I've never voted Democrat in my 25 years of voting, but some of you "conservatives" scare me. Morality police. Sickening. Basically anything you aren't into you make illegal, whether anyone's right to life, liberty, or property is affected. Someone makes a logical argument on the issue and all you can say is "the proper conservative standpoint...blah blah blah" like unthinking automatons. Ever consider thinking for yourself? Or would your world shatter if something changed in your thinking since you were 12 years old?


This segment of conservativism is why the Democrats will probably will the next election, and with the demographic shift from immigration, quite possibly every other one from now on.

Here's an idea. Mind your own business. Those vital swing voters despise you for this type of freedom killing thinking.

Thanks, Church ladies.

MrBananaGrabber
You are way off base. No one is wallowing in his arrest. Get off your holier than thou mountain.

NEXT - PROSTITUTION
BIG MONEY FROM SEX, ain't it?

Internet poker is another issue....
I don't use any drugs. In fact, it's a very rare occasion that I drink a beer. However, that doesn't mean I wish to legislate this on other.

The party seems to wish to legislate their ideas of morality, and it's weakening the party. We used to support values by protecting values from big government. Now, many wish to promote values USING big government. Sorry, but that's not conservative, no matter how much you like the laws you pass.

Tired of this? Yes? Then go to http://www.thepetitionsite.com/petition/306149419 and sign the petition to repeal the Internet poker "ban". These will be hand-delivered to Congress later this month. Show your support for individual rights and limited government. I did!

Conservatives should oppose this Internet poker prohibition. After all, the power we’re giving government today will be the power they use against us tomorrow.

SteveL
Thanks for reminding me why Bork was such a bad choice. His line of thinking puts the cart before the horse. The social context of each of these substances developed long after the substance was introduced. Also the social context continues to change over time. I could never trust someone with such backward reasoning or with so little faith in God, county or mankind that he thinks we are heading towards Gomorrah.

What? No Doctor-shopping probe?
Kathleen, I luv ya.

You are the first, maybe the only journalist who would look at this celebrity bust and ask why marijuana is still illegal.

I ask, why does the government make it a crime for me to plant a weed in my back yard, grow it harvest it, dry it, and smoke it?

It really is none of their business if I want to get stoned. What I'm saying here is that marijuana should be legal. Period.

And no, there should be no special taxes on it either. The key to fixing Social Security is to fix Social Security, not finding more items to tax so we can continue to delude ourselves that this testament to the incompetence of government can work.

$6 billion a year is a drop in the bucket compared to the $3 TRILLION our bureaucrats spend. We will never achieve fiscal stability until we CONTROL AND REDUCE OR ENTITLEMENT SPENDING.

Marijuana is great for relieving all kinds of muscle pain as well. And it can be self-precribed and sold over-the-counter.

The real reason marijuana is illegal and cigarettes and alcohol are legal is that marijuana, unlike the other two, is NOT addicitive.

Our solution to addiction is to surrender to it even though it kills millions. But something as beneficial and harmless as marijuana ... well, we have to outlaw that!

Did you know that if you are found guilty of selling marijuana in Michigan the mandatory sentence is life without parole?

Time to get real.

South Park
Quoth Randy Marsh to his son Stan:

(okay, not exactly, but pretty durn close)

"No son, pot istn't going to kill you, or make you crazy, or lead to other more dangerous drugs. In fact, it pretty much makes you okay with doing nothing at all, and that's the real danger."


I keep telling you people, everything you need to know has been covered in an episode of South Park.


And oh yeah, "You're a towel!"


Legalized dope?
Marijuana is called dope for good reason: it dopes down a perfectly vibrant person. It enhances stupidity. Politicians love dopes because they're easy to fool. While I would agree that a balanced debate is in order whether or not to legalize pot, the reality is, if marijuana was a good and safe as its proponents have said it is, it would already be legal. First of all, if you smoke pot today the remnants can remain in your system for 4-6 weeks. The active chemical THC can be released in your body within that time causing flashbacks. On the contrary, a responsible drinker can metabolize alcohol and rid it from his body in a matter of hours. Marijuana today is at least twice as potent as what was available a decade ago. Besides being the gateway drug to more dangerous substances, it is linked to serious mental health issues. In England, psychiatric emergencies related to marijuana use are on the rise and political & medical establishments are finally recognizing the dangers and are reconsidering their outright support of the drug.

Freedom
Who owns your body, you or the government? If the government owns your body, then it gets to decide what you can and cannot do to it, with it or for it. If you own your body then the government does not have the authority to restrict what you do with it.
If one wants to drink or smoke (tobacco) oneself into an early grave grave it should not be the concern of the government.
Supposedly consuming red meat or at least the delicious fatty kind is harmful. Why not outlaw that? Riding motorcycles is dangerous, why not do away with that? Speed kills. We could save thousands of lives per year if we dropped the the speed limit down to 30 mph on the highway and 10 mph everywhere else. Maybe, we should all wear crash helmets in case we trip.
You're either for individual freedom becaue you believe individuals should be free to make their own decision, good, bad or indifferent or you believe that the power of the state should be used to control our behavior so that we do what is good for us, or good for society or so that we don't harm ourselves. What is the difference between the attitude that supports criminalization of marijuana and the attitude Hillary Clinton displays on nearly every issue? How many of us really need the State to supervise our behavior?
This one is a no brainer for me. As a free adult American I should be free to choose to do whatever I want to do and if you or the government doesn't like that is just too bad. You may choose to do actin a way that I do not approve of but I would not try to use the power of the State to prevent you from taking those actions.
Freedom should mean accepting that others have freedom to act based on their own judgment even if it contradicts my judgment or the judgment of our "betters" in Washington.

Have an Evil day.

Legalize it
You libs can't sterotype us conservatives - I can see it now Right Wingers for Bong Hits.

Ok I'm with the poster above me - how in the heck did Algore 3 get his Prius over 100mph? Solar Cells? Good Grief I'd be in the sauce and weed if was the spawn of Al and Tipper too. Other than that he needs to start riding his bike to work - less of public threat...

My letter to Focus on the Family
I’m writing to let you know many Americans find your organization’s outspoken (and often inaccurate to the point of being deceitful) advocacy of banning Internet poker offensive, particularly FoF’s assertion that the American people need the federal government to act as their nanny. Americans are capable of making their own decisions. We don’t need a bigger federal government to do that for us. Actually, we need a smaller one. After all, the power you give government today is the power they’ll use against us tomorrow.

For example, do you feel safe in saying the IRS could never revoke a church's tax exempt status for refusing to hire a gay pastor? Do you feel safe in saying the IRS could never revoke a church's tax exempt status for preaching that homosexuality is a sin? If you answered, "yes, that cannot happen", are you certain that couldn't come to pass within ten years? And, why shouldn't it? YOU decided government should involve itself in issues of morality, and many Americans do think discrimination against gays is immoral. That's the power you're advocating giving government today!!! After all, YOU said the American people are incapable of making their own decisions. YOU said government should have a role. And, YOU condemned yourself to this outcome by chasing limited-government conservatives like me from the Republican Party, assuring the party of minority status.

I urge you to let this one go. Support limited government. Support regulation over prohibition. Fiscal conservatism plus government out of your life = true conservatism. Government control of one’s life = statism.

$
Okay now I am laughing! I forgot about that episode! However I have seen many a person start with pot and fall into other drugs trying to out do the last high.

Lolo
"Okay now I am laughing! I forgot about that episode! However I have seen many a person start with pot and fall into other drugs trying to out do the last high."

How's this any different than alcohol? Is it only that one is legal and one is not? Do you advocate a return to Prohibition? How much government control do you think we require?

To former Vice President Gore
Just to show that we conservatives are not all mean-spirited, bloodthirsty, narrowminded hicks I offer the following: I am sorry about this situation with your son. I have three children in their mid to late teens and worry about similar things happening to them. I believe my wife and I raised them right and we pray for them. I am sure you and Tipper did and do the same. I disagree with you on global warming and probably many other issues but I sympathize with a family man with a child in trouble. Your family is in my prayers. God bless.

OK... Legalize MJ
But make sure neither Cheech or Chong could ever pilot a plane or a car or operate any machinery or even make me a hamburger.

To Gestelle ...
Your sarcasm is so totally weak. I am a relgious conservative, but as a citizen of the United States, I believe we have certain freedoms. Those freedoms include the right to screw up your life with drugs if you so choose. God gave me free will teaching me that, while all things are possible, not all things are beneficial.

The difference between you and me is that, from your posts, you apprear to prefer government play daddy and bail out a kid when he screws up his life. On the other hand, I prefer to let my young adult children learn from their mistakes.

Basically, there are two agents for change. Pain and reward. If they experience neither, from their perspective, there is no need to change.

legalization a bad idea
My husband is a registered nurse, and he tells me that the appetite-stimulating and pain-relieving properties of marijuana are already available in prescription medication form and are prescribed to chemotherapy patients, among other people. What I don't understand is why the same people who want to ban tobacco smoking on the grounds of second-hand smoke are so eager to legalize marijuana, which also exposes people to second hand smoke, and the risks of a contact high.

Also, there are many instances of people with little or no health insurance needing extensive medical intervention for alcohol and tobacco related health problems. The people who end up paying for their health care are all the other taxpayers and insurance premium payers. I am not opposed to medical assistance for accidents and catastrophic illness for people who are in great need, but I object to being required to pay for someone else's poor judgment or lack of character.

Furthermore, making something illegal does tend to reduce the usage of it by the general public, if only because many people are either (a) not that willing to break the law or (b) find it too difficult to bother with. I learned in my Asian history class that when the United States outlawed over-the-counter opiate use in the early 20th Century, the numbers of users and addicts dropped dramatically because the substances were much harder to get. Many people thought there was no harm to the opiates because they were legal, and use was generally considered a tragic personal vice; but this vice resulted in the dissolution of wealth and property because the addicts would put more of their substance into feeding their habit. How is that "harmless"?

http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/demand/speakout/06so.htm

To Packrat ...
The only reason someone elses screw ups cause you increased costs is because of the ignorant ways insurance laws are mandated. It should be insurance companies that require seat belt and helmet use, NOT THE GUBMENT! If you are in an accident and you are not wearing your selt belt, guess what? Your insurance shouldn't cover you. Drinking and driving and denting others cars? Guess what? NOT COVERED due to alcohol use. It doesn't take more government. It only takes common sense. If you want to take the risk and operate your vehicle in a way that endangers your coverage, by all means, help yourself.

Frog
What makes you think that regular pot-smokers even bother to buy medical insurance? They just go to emergency rooms, uninsured, and the costs ARE passed on to the people that pay their medical bills and have insurance.

FROG
If they would do that (Denying coverage for not following the rules), I would be happy. but so far they haven't.


hypocrisy
The fact that alchohol is legal and marijuana is not is just simple hypocrisy that has no place in America. You fools who condemn marijuana and condone the legality of alchohol are simply ignorant. Perhaps on purpose, which makes you even worse, selfish! Read the Lancet, do a little study on marijuana and you will find that Ms. Parker has told nothing but the truth. The true gateway drug is tobacco followed by alchohol and then by a far smaller margin marijuana. Ignorance and Politics are the only reason marijuana is illegal. It should be regulated and taxed just like alchohol. Marijuana smokers are automatically second class citizens in that there are very few good paying jobs that do not test for marijuana and even very limited use will ban you from employment. This is rank hypocrisy when a man can go home and get drunk every evening and keep his job when a superior employee who uses marijuana casually would have to be fired. Anyone in this room who has more than two drinks in any one day and would not allow his/her neighbor to do the same with Pot is a Bigot. Nuff said!!

CC
What makes you think they don’t?

Frog: Good point.

rlynnbudd
Regardless of whether marijuana is harmful or not, the government simply has no right, mandate, nor jurisdiction to tell us what we can or cannot put into our bodies.

It's not government's job to save us from ourselves. Individual adults must be allowed to suffer (or benefit) from the consequences of their actions.

.
Hear here!!

H-H-High from Canada!
The debate seems to be a three-way tussle between liberals, libertarian conservatives and moral conservatives.

It would be nice if we could all toke up and mellow out, but ...

Legalizing marijuana would:

Increase DUI road fatalities and industrial accidents.

Increase the incidence of schizophrenia and psychiatric admissions.

Reduce initiative and cognative ability in young people still maturing biologically.

Put that into your bong!

Backwards
You people have got it backwards.The government is not trying to save you from you. The government is trying to save us from you, and that is their job. Take for instance Gore's idiot son. If he'd have hit another vehicile at speeds in excess of 100 miles an hour, how many survivors do you think there would have been? With the way the courts release drunk drivers to ply their practices again and again, What do youx think the roads will be like if they legalise pot? The roads are already death traps and you want to add a couple million more impaired drivers? Get a grip for christ sake!

Should marijuana be legalized?
According to a DEA agent friend of mine (now retired), marijuana use leads directly to use of Heroine and other drugs. Also, the illegal presciption drugs in his possession were not addressed in this article

You're kidding, right?
The smoking section of airliners is long ago history, shoot the Feds have declared you can't even carry toothpaste on an airplane.

Don't even think of lighting a cigarette in a public building. Some cities don't allow it in bars and I understand some beaches in Kaliphony are off limits to smoking.

Smoking in the movies is only allowed by the bad guy.

When's the last time you saw a cigarette machine?

When's the last time you saw a tobacco commercial?

NASCAR had to rename the Winston Cup.

All this lunacy over a product that is legal and you want to kite the idea of revisting laws on pot? Pot smokers would be better off trying to keep it illegal, at least they won't be treated as second class citizens.

none
It has been shown that marijuana is a stepping stone drug, so to speak, because of the people the users are forced to associate with in purchasing the pot. The dealer normally has a variety of products to choose from.

"Gatweay drugs"
You want to know a gateway drug? Remember when you were a kid, and you would stick your arms out and spin around until you got dizzy?

You would get all light-headed and often you would fall down as you tried to walk. That, right there, was your first high.

And if you want to know the truth, an overwhelming majority of pot smokers would tell you that they tried alcohol before pot. Most smoked a cigarette and experienced the lightheaded feeling associated with it before smoking pot.

But alcohol comes first in most cases, I will guarantee you.

Put that in your pint glass and drink it.

"Gateway drugs" 2
Terming marijuana a "gateway drug" implies a cause-and-effect relationship. If A, then B, as : smoking marijuana causes the effect of going on to use harder drugs.

That is like saying that looking at porn causes someone to be a rapist.

Do most rapists look at porn? Yeah, probably so. Do most people who look at porn rape people? I doubt it.

Have most people who use cocaine or heroin used marijuana in the past? Yeah, probably so. Do most people who smoke marijuana go on to do cocaine and heroin? Absolutely, unequivocally, no.

Liberpublican spews forth
Liber, grow up just a little. The point is that there are good arguments on both sides of the issue. It is fools like you who are too slow to realize that there can be two genuine sides to an issue. Just because someone doesn't agree with you does not make them a hypocrite or a bigot. But at least we can tell which side of the debate you fall on because your logic is about as clear as someone who's just used their bong.

Either grow up, slow down, or log off.

I just want to hurl!
"Here's a Bingo thought for people concerned about the federal deficit, America's 4.5 million uninsured children or our soon-to-be-bankrupt Social Security system"

Any time I hear an appeal based on the vacuous assertion that it's "For the Children", I dismiss it out of hand; that's NEVER how it works out, EVER! Anything done "For the Children" is inevitably diverted to the general fund, so the politicians can usurp the funds raised on the backs of children for more favored projects and constituents. Kids don't vote and the politicians know that.

And health insurance for kids is the responsibility of - let me just toss this idea out here - THEIR PARENTS!


logical fallacies
Ever hear of Post hoc, ergo propter hoc?
It's Latin, means 'after this, therefore because of this.' It's one of the ways people who don't know how to analyze facts jump to false conclusions.

Going to bed is harmful, and should be illegal, because most people who die, die in bed.

Just because many schizophrenics have also used marijuana doesn't mean the weed caused the mental disorder, or even that the two are related, any more than the fact that somebody had a beer once is a sure sign that that person is therefore morally corrupt. Yes, people who drink too much beer are likely to have behavioral problems. Does the beer cause the problem? Or are both problems caused by a third, deeper-seated problem? Or are they coincidental and unrelated? You can't tell from the logic.

We can say this: Marijuana probably isn't a good thing for optimal health. Neither are potato chips, jelly beans, or red fruit-flavored drink, but we aren't arresting people at the checkout stand for being irresponsible idiots.

Marijuana stinks, even worse than tobacco. Please don't smoke it around me. Smoked to excess, it seems to make people lazy and stupid. Would they be lazy and stupid drinking too much Boone's Farm instead? Or taking Valium? Or watching daytime TV instead of going to work? Probably. But whose business is it?

Don't spend my tax dollars arresting, prosecuting or supporting stupid, irresponsible people. Let Darwin take care of his own.


Amen, Amelia
That goes right along with my previous post. People seem to want to create a cause-and-effect situation where there is none.

drugs
Please give it up. we don't need more spaced out
idiots driving or working in our offices and plants.
I can not believe that you are writing this nonsense.

Legalizing it...
...won't lead to more idiots. The people who are going to smoke pot are going to smoke pot, period. They're not deterred by the law. That's obvious by the rampant marijuana use in the country today.

Also, think of the rebellious teenagers who actually may smoke pot BECAUSE it is illegal. Were that stigma not attached to it, is it not reasonable to believe that it would no longer be as fashionable for youngsters to do it? You can't rebel by doing something that society deems to be OK.

Amelia --
quoth amelia: "Going to bed is harmful, and should be illegal, because most people who die, die in bed."

I did not know that!

I'm writing my congressman right now, so we can get that banned straight away!

Amelia
Your logic is short one thing. Logic. Weather people drink pop or chips because they are not good for you is not the question or the point. None of these things truely harm others because you do it. Smoke enough pot and get behind the wheel and see if it hurts someone as a direct cause of your actions. It is no different than drinking and getting behind the wheel which is illegal and it is the police's job to protect and serve. The only difference is they are getting a little preemptive. The only ones that are effected and are afraid of the law are the ones doing it.

oops
That should have been whether not weather. Stormy thinking.

Marijuana Myths
1. If legalized, marijuana use would probably go up.

TRUE. If pizza were against the law for 80 years, then suddenly legalized, its use would also probably go up. However, for this to be a "bad thing", you must first demonstrate that marijuana is a "bad thing." There are reams of evidence that suggest this just isn't so.



2. DUI's and accidents would probably go up.

FALSE. There have been a number of studies indicating that drivers under the influence of MJ are *safer* than *sober* drivers, in that they tend to drive more slowly. It should still be forbidden to drive or operate heavy machinery under the influence of any sort of mind-altering chemical (like cough syrup), but auto accidents would probably not go up.



3. Users would move on to harder stuff via the "gateway effect"

FALSE. The only thing that makes marijuana any sort of "gateway" is the fact that it's illegal, and drug pushers stand to make a greater profit for less risk with harder stuff. And once you leave the "legal side of the street", you get exposed to more illegal things anyway.

During Prohibition, whiskey was the bootleggers' drug of choice. It used up less space, thus having less risk of getting caught per unit of volume. One might have said that beer was a "gateway drug." Nobody says that today, now that it's legal. Same thing with today's prohibition.

Now that it's all legal, the vast majority of drinkers, as before Prohibition, show a preference for beer or wine, and even those who drink whiskey usually dilute it with water, soft drinks, fruit juices, etc., to make a "cocktail."

Even in today's illegal climate, the statistics are that only about 10% (or so) of the population regularly use marijuana. Then it's something like 3% for cocaine, then 1% for heroin (these stats may be off somewhat). Even if it could be said that 100% of heroin users started with marijuana, 90% of marijuana users do *not* move on to anything harder.



4. The medical effects of Marijuana can be reproduced with prescription drugs.

TRUE. However, these prescription drugs are expensive, and sometimes have some nasty side effects. E.g., Marinol, touted as a marijuana substitute for cancer patients, is something like $500/dose (as per the last time I checked). Marijuana can be grown indoors in a pot, making it virtually free.

Marinol side effects include: "Dizziness, drowsiness, irritability, mood changes, difficulty concentrating, distorted vision, dry mouth and changes in appetite may occur especially the first several days as your body adjusts to the medication. [...] skin rash, rapid heart rate, sleep disturbances, depression, memory loss, mental confusion, hallucinations, behavior changes, numbness or tingling of the hands or feet. Be aware that this medication may cause mood or behavior changes."

Further, the pill is prescribed for nausea and vomiting -- patients who have difficulty swallowing or holding down their food, especially some of these chemotherapy patients. But any pills you give them are sometimes upchucked immediately. Since marijuana is usually inhaled instead of swallowed, it provides nausea relief without needing to go through the stomach. Once relief is attained, *then* the patient is able to drink, eat and swallow pills.



5. Many of these so-called "medical marijuana" people just want to get high.

TRUE. And so what? Who's body is it, anyway?

eastlake,
How are things?
Unca Alby it will probably never be legal because as you say "Marijuana can be grown indoors in a pot, making it virtually free." TAXATION problems the gov't dosen't like not being able to take a cut,as well a phrama not getting a profit to tax.

Let's not fall into liberal traps...
That marijuana should be legalized and then heavily regulated seems like common sense. I am a little surprised at the number of conservatives who think that it's fine and dandy to use government to push your own values onto everyone else. Using your own personal brand of morality to justify government intrusion is no better than the Libs who think it's OK for government to insist that "gay rights" be taught in school. Everyone has their own set of values. The arrogance of thinking that yours are so superior that everyone in the country should be coerced into sharing them is a bad trend. I expect that from the left, but expect better from the right.

It annoys me that the government wastes so much of my income enforcing laws aimed at telling me that I can't harm myself... If you *really* feel the need to get in other peoples business consider this approach instead: legislating victimless crimes should be left to state and local governments. That way if the local nanny-state gets out of control I can move 2 counties over and continue living my life in the way I choose.

Taxing Plants
quoth ch47 jockey: "it will probably never be legal because as you say "Marijuana can be grown indoors in a pot, making it virtually free." TAXATION problems the gov't doesn't like not being able to take a cut, as well a pharma not getting a profit to tax."

Those issues are quite true. However, Canada is having a thriving pot industry right now, despite being just as illegal there as here.

No, they don't use the stuff, at least not as much as Americans do -- but they do sell all the stuff you need to grow it -- lamps, fertilizer, pots, soil, lattices -- etc. So now there's a huge industry of folks who buy and sell all that stuff, grow the weed -- then sell it to Americans.

The Canadian mounties are more-or-less looking the other way. It's gotten to be a relatively noticeable chunk of their economy. They don't want to lose the sales taxes or put people out of work.

We need to convince our government that everyone will be better off with legalization, even the government. Sure, a lot of people can grow their own -- I fix my own toilet when it leaks, and change light switches when they break -- but another huge group of people would prefer to buy it at a convenience store, similar to hiring a plumber or an electrician.

-- Or at a "drug" store --

And they won't mind paying taxes of $10 to $20 per dose or more -- which is still cheaper than they could get it from their friendly neighborhood outlaw drug dealer.

That's not the conservative way...
I agree it is time to wipe out the anti-marijuanna laws, but I jumped off the wagon when the talk turned to regulation, taxation and the effects on the federal budget.

If the laws that prevent our citizens from using marijuanna are not justifiable then they need to be repealed, regardless of the impact on the federal budget.

The last thing we need is a Federal Department of Alchohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Pot justifying all the taxes it collects by setting federal standards for the production of bongs.

"Legalize it and then tax the hell out of it" is the liberal way. Liberals impower government, conservatives impower people.

It is a plant for heaven's sake. Let people grow their own, and keep the government out of it. Sell the seeds in the burpee display case at Walmart right alongside the zuchini and petunia packets and be done with it.

That is the conservative way.

reply to MikeR
MikeR writes: "The social context of each of these substances developed long after the substance was introduced. Also the social context continues to change over time. I could never trust someone with such backward reasoning or with so little faith in God, county or mankind that he thinks we are heading towards Gomorrah."

I think that part of the reason that social conservatives think America is heading for moral collapse, is they're getting a biased perspective from the sanitized American history they've been taught in school. Students don't get to learn that there never was an America that was pure as the driven snow. Here are some things they rarely teach kids in history class:

-- Benjamin Franklin fathered an illegitimate child.

-- So did Grover Cleveland. But the public elected him President anyway when he promised to pay child support.

-- In New England in the early 19th century, the legal "age of consent" for girls was 12.

-- In the California Gold Rush in 1849, the prostitutes and brothels followed the prospectors there. And when a prospector struck gold, he would often spend the money in the nearest brothel.

-- In the 19th century, before the invention of anti-infective drugs, syphilis infected up to 15% of American men, who died horribly from it.

In 1913, magazine ads for vibrators assured women that "Vibration is life. It will chase away the years like magic."

-- The silent film "Hypocrites," in 1914, featured full female nudity.

And as Ben Wattenberg pointed out, if America was pure and pristine, then what were those "farmer's daughter" jokes about? Where did the term "shotgun marriage" come from?

What did my own mom mean when she told me that when she was a kid in junior high school in the 1930's, most of her female classmates had already "gone in the back seat of a car"?

The more things change....

To Social Conservatives:
You are part of the problem not part of the solution. Social conservatives will be the death of conservatism as someone already stated because they share too much with liberals. You both want big brother to manage our lives, you only differ in exactly how and exactly what aspects.

Every single poster here who has listed the alleged health risks from marijuana is entitled to their opinion. I encourage you to make an informed opinion about whether or not to use a particular substance or allow your children to. When you deign to force your beliefs on everyone else, you are no better than Hillary Clinton and her desire to form a more collective union.

The person who stated that whether others wear a helmut or not impacts him in the form of higher insurance premiums falls into the same trap that includes Lenin, Stalin, Chavez, Castro, Clinton, et al. Nice company you have! When the government first acknowledges a necessity to control any aspect of an individuals liberty, it opens up the floodgates and they will then need to control everything because everything is interrelated somehow. Your basic reasoning for keeping marijuana illegal is the EXACT same reasoning that will be applied to the obesity police, the literature police, the exercise police, etc ad nauseum.

I will be accused of exaggerating, I am sure. What is hilarious is to listen to some of the same people decry the intrusiveness of many aspects of liberal orthodoxy but, then use the same reasoning to support their own moral legislating. That is why we don't have two political parties anymore but, a ruling class. The number of lovers of liberty are too few and will soon be extinct. I pray this does not happen.

Disagreeing with your neighbors' behavior is ok. Throwing him in jail when he has harmed no one or no property simply because you think his behavior is harmful is fascist.

legal or not
I work with a lot of pot addicts in a manufacturing business. Maybe it's pscyological addiction, but they cannot stop. They smoke at work making an already accident prone business even more so. The business is about to go under due to high insurance costs due to accidents. Pot affects coordination and depth perception. These same people do not drink alcohol on the job, but frequent bars, some admit to being acolholics. Still, they can do without alcohol for 8 hours but not pot. Many of them are young and have no hopes and dreams beyond buying pot, and spend as much as their rent is on it. Legalizing it sends a message to everyone that it is harmless. I can see that pot is not so harmless.


Unca Alby
" pot smokers are safer drivers because they drive slower" Consider this, take that slower driver entering a highway full of people going 65 to 70 miles an hour- the legal speed limit, now get the pothead in at say 40, what do you think the results are going to be? Just as bad as if you were going 80 or 90. Dead people on the road.

eastlake joe - - - on Safe Driving
I never said people should be allowed to drive while under the influence -- of anything. Indeed, the single biggest cause of traffic accidents is driving while tired or sleepy. Can't pass laws against sleep, can we?

The best argument I've heard is that yes, pot smoker drive more slowly, but it still impairs reaction time. If something unexpected happens, you need to be alert and ready to react. Which would also explain the accidents caused by tired and sleepy drivers.

Nevertheless, those studies are out there. People driving under the influence of marijuana have fewer accidents than people driving sober. They don't, as you suggest, get on the freeway at 40 mph -- but they don't get into the fast lane and start blasting at 90 mph either.

So -- make it legal to smoke pot, but not while driving or operating heavy machinery.

Pinto Man -- Harmlessness
"Harmless" is a relative term.

Eating nothing but McDonald's hamburgers has been documented to have definite health hazards. Jumping out of airplanes with (or without) a parachute, likewise. Smoking tobacco, eating trans-fat, driving without a seatbelt, the list is endless.

Exercising too much can cause problems -- the famous exercise guru, Jim Fixx I think was his name, died of a heart attack. A lot of previously sedentary people created health problems for themselves by ramping up their exercise programs too quickly.

Hell, LIFE is hazardous to your health.

Nevertheless, it remains true that there is not one single fatality caused by marijuana in the entirety of human history. For comparison, aspirin kills around a hundred people each year.

The point here is that we're supposed to be living in a free society, which is supposed to mean that adult citizens are free to make their own choices about what risks they want to take with their own persons.

I know this twinkie is bad for me, but right now I'm willing to give up a little long-term health for a little short-term satisfaction. And what's the point of living to 110 if you can't enjoy yourself once in a while?

Whether or not drug use has risks, whether or not driving motorcycles has risks, whether or not eating fatty foods, exercising, playing sports, playing video games, etc., have risks -- and they all have risks -- responsible adult citizens in a free society need to be able to make their own informed choices.

Far out
No one should be an advocate for the decriminalization of marijuana without first experimenting with it.
So, Ms. Parker, this is your mission, should you decide to accept it: Drink wine daily for 6 months, then switch to marijuana for 6 months. Report back your findings at the end of the year. One thing for sure, the second half of the year should bring us some very strange, or just plain "spaced-out" columns.

Al Gore III
is sick of being exploited and used by his father who kept talking about his terrible accident (young Gore had been hit by a car and seriously injured when he was a child). Gore III does not want to be a professional victim which is why he is in a state of rebellion against his self righteous parents. I suspect that one of John Edwards' children will turn on him and the wife one day because of the way he exploited his son's death and his wife's terrible illness.

Unca Alby
In the last 2or 3 months there have been at least three people who have been brought up on charges for drunk driving in the Cleveland area. One was for the 8th time and others for 5 and six. If they legalize pot the same thing is going to happen. We have enough death on the highways without that. At even 55 mph you need all the reaction time you have to drive safe. I also don't believe any report said that high drivers had less accidents unless it was done by NORMAL.

Unca
Please read that to say had less accidents than sober drivers.

So where do you draw the line?
A while back a mother drowned her children in her bathtub. Make bathtubs illegal?

Every day several people are shot to death with handguns. Make handguns illegal?

A while back, a fellow plowed his vehicle through a shopping mall. Make automobiles illegal?

And what makes you think people aren't driving under the influence NOW? If we made alcohol illegal, and returned to 30's-style Prohibition, do you suppose for one instant that people would *stop* driving while drunk?

What is the price of your liberty? How much liberty do you surrender for a pretense of security?

If you locked up ever male between the ages of 15 and 25, property crime would plummet to near zero. For that price, we would get some security. Is it worth it?

I say no. Liberty means you let other people make decisions you disagree with, and they pay the consequences of their own actions. Every decision has a cost/benefit, even liberty. The cost of legalization is a *POSSIBLE* (not probable) increase in highway fatalities. But the benefit is a CERTAIN increase in liberty.

Thousands of non-violent criminals can be released from jails, saving billion$, hundreds of thousands of otherwise non-violent users will not have their lives ruined with incarceration, plus saving billion$ more -- crime would go down, both property crime and homicides -- etc. etc. etc.

I daresay for every person who might die in a marijuana-related auto accident, two people will still be alive from not having shoot-outs between drug dealers (who often kill innocent bystanders).

I think the *possible* chance that a few more accidents *might* happen (and I still challenge that possibility) is well worth all of the *undeniable* benefits of legalization.

Unca Alby
Come on guy how many shoot-outs at the ok corrall do you read about involving pot? Those kind of things involve the harder drugs. The violence between cops and pot dealers is so infrequent as to almost call it rare. I suppose you are also against the punishment for selling it within 100 ft. of a school or daycare? I guarantee if I catch them dealing or smoking around my kids they better sell their soul to god cause their a$$ is mine.

eastlake joe - - - SIGH
You don't read about them -- they're so frequent as to no longer be newsworthy -- but they tout the statistics every time they want to increase gun control.

The media appears to have a vested interest -- they don't tell you how many people die in gang wars anymore, but let a soldier sneeze in Iraq, and it's all over the news.

And no, it is *not* just the hard stuff. By far the MOST MONEY to be made in the black market for drugs is MARIJUANA. Marijuana is the NUMBER ONE CASH CROP in this country, surpassing corn (#2) by a wide margin.

quoth eastlake joe: "I suppose you are also against the punishment for selling it within 100 ft. of a school or daycare?"

I can tell you're running out of arguments, coz now you're just getting silly.

First of all, these restrictions are irrelevant. You want weed? The place to go get it is AT the high school. Every high school kid knows where to get it, or knows someone they can ask. Talk to some high schoolers some time; they'll tell you it's easier to get than beer. Indeed, it's starting to become widely available at middle school as well.

The valedictorian at my daughter's high school was a dealer, or so she tells me.

The thing about beer is, when an adult wants it, it's easy to get. The seller has to get a license to sell this *very* profitable product, and they don't want to lose that license. So they don't sell to minors. They CAN'T get a license for an establishment within X feet of a church, school, etc., and they DO follow all the rules.

But all that is beside the point.

Ok --- --- ---
You shouldn't drive while smoking weed. -- check.
You shouldn't sell to minors. -- check.
You shouldn't operate heavy machinery under the influence. -- check.
You can't get a license within X feet of a school. -- check.

What's your next objection?

THC tablets--all in a matter of time
Decriminalization of marijuana is in the process of happening.
A careful analysis will reveal to the goverment and Americans whose paychecks come from the 'war on drugs'that jobs are secure. Better, these troops can be redeployed to the 'hot spots' in this war. So, guild interests won't prevent decriminalization.
Marijuana is 'the safest medicine on earth' according to Dr.Andrew Weil (in fairness, the mere utterance of this fact almost caused Larry King a heart attack when Dr. Weil made this point on Larry's show...never seen Larry so stunned). Dr. Weil proceeded to present the facts to support his assertion. He noted that inhalation was an unhealthy route of administration, clarified that growing brains were at risk, emphasized that cannabis intoxication impaired driving skills, and all the common sense caveats.
William F.Buckley, retired military Generals, former Defense Secretaries, growing numbers of conservatives, and other luminaries will prevail in the 'war of ideas' to quicken every stoner's Dream.
Though, wine is her preferred poison, I'm pretty sure Ms. Parker has inhaled. It would be interesting to juxtapose essays she writes while sipping wine with those penned under the influence of marijuana. Now, some people just don't like to inhale smoke into their lungs. So, Ms. Parker could obtain a prescription for Marinol. Purists might object. However, as one with experience with inhalation and injesting a Marinol capsule (or two)with water......it's a decent head to head competition.
I'll put my money on the 'Marinol essays'; she does get to make revisions just as she does when sipping wine.
Maybe, William F. Buckley will help her get the 'goods'.
The real question: Has William F. Buckley ever inhaled or injested Marinol ? I say 'yes'.

mikefast
Merely speaking the truth mikey, if you can't handle it then move your brilliant commentary to another dimension. Simply put the facts are on my side. Alchohol has cuased far more misery on this planet than all the other drugs combined. That is simply undeniable.

Unca Alby
You forgot one at the last there. Don't legalize drugs Period. Check! You will never change my mind as I'm totally against recreational drug use. I have seen the effects of it too close. We had a guy in my unit in Viet Nam who used heroin and he often stated how he started smoking pot and moved on to bigger and better things. When he came to Vinh Long from Bearcat he lost his contacts, Tried to ease it with barbs and put an m-16 under his chin on full auto and blew the top of his head off. When I picked up my pants to go on duty, a piece of his skull dropped out of the folds of the cloth. Change my mind? NOT A CHANCE!

Liberpublican
I have to see the link that says alcohol has caused more misery than ALL the other drugs combined. I have to see that and please don't quote NORMAL or Timothy oleary. Make it a non-biased group.

Liberpub
Just for the record, I have smoked pot a few times and liked how it made me feel also alcohol. but thyere was one thing missing in both and that was me being in control. I quit both pot over30 years ago and drinking over 25 years ago. The only drugs I put in my body are legal prescriptions and only the way I'm supposed to for my health.

eastlake joe -- who will never do drugs
quoth eastlake joe: "You will never change my mind as I'm totally against recreational drug use."

Then don't use drugs recreationally.

I'm not trying to sell *you* drugs. I could care less whether you toke or drink or abstain from anything stronger than gatorade.

I for one don't use illegal drugs either. Which is entirely beside the point.

What I'm trying to put across to you is that it is WRONG to force OTHER people to abide by YOUR morals. So long as they don't bother you, don't bother them.

This is NOT supposed to be a "Nanny State."

A Worthwhile Topic, I Guess
How about a blind "taste" test? Lets put two drugs side by side, without naming them, and see what the comparison reveals.

Deaths directly due to drug A --
75000-100000/year
Deaths directly due to drug B --
0


Annual Potential lost years of life due to drug A-- 2.3 million
Annual Potential lost years of life due to drug
B-- 0

Potential for physical addiciotn for Drug A-- Very High
Potential for physical addiction for Drug B--
None

Known cost to Economy Due to use of drug A --
184 Billion/year

Known cost to Economy Due to use of drug B --
0/yr.

The cliched comparison of alcohol and marijuana is actually far more heavily weighted in favor of Marijuana being legal than people realize. What rational person could conclude that drug A should be legal and heavily advertised but drug B is so dangerous that researchers cannot even investigate its effects without special permission? The irrationality of marijuana prohibition simply boggles the mind.




beachmom
Good post! If only the young could realize that life has a way of catching up with you!

Why pot will never be legal...
...has nothing to do with health. There are 5 industries that would be destroyed if pot were legal. These industries are doing everything they can to keep this from happening.
1)Paper industry
the paper industry would be destroyed because all the paper was made of hemp prior to 1933. It (paper) was made with water, no chemicals, from a weed that was renewable in 6 months. No trees were used. Thank William Randolph Hearst and Dupont for all the ecological damage paper companies cause. He named marijuana with a spanish nameand used his newspaper empire to scare people and the attorney general so they would make pot illegal and dupont could corner the paper industry (and Hearst could clean up on his investments with dupont). The paper industry as it stands would be decimated by a return to the natural, no chemical, no tree destruction manufacture of a superior paper from hemp. (our Declaration of Independence and Constitution are written on Hemp paper).
2) Cotton industry
Hemp is a far superior fabric, and all the canvas used was made of cannabis. Also the rope.
3) Oil industry
All the oil lamps were burning hemp oil. Hemp oil burns with no pollutants, and could run every diesel truck in this country, without pollution, using weeds that are renewable in 6 months.
4) Pharmacutical industry

all anti nausea drugs on the market would be ignored in favor of pot, which works immediatly upon inhalation. As a former colitis sufferer, whose doctor was a former colitis sufferer, I was lucky enough to have been told what really works, with no dangerous side effects. I have never met anyone who tried pot for stomach distress without immediate relief.
5) Alcohol industry
they would not be destroyed, but they feel they would not like the competition, and are lobbying heavily to keep pot off the market.
So you see, there is big money against pot, and if someone in the government says its because of health reasons, they are lying through their teeth. There is not one study showing any of the health problems associated with alcohol, cigarettes, or continued use of stomach remedies.
We will never see pot legal.
rreale@bnnreports.com
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