Townhall.com, Where Your Opinion Counts
Talk Radio:   Bill Bennett   Mike Gallagher   Dennis Prager   Michael Medved   Hugh Hewitt   
BREAKING NEWS  LeftArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican   RightArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican  
Columns, funnies & more in your inbox!
  • Check the boxes and send us your email address to receveive your free newsletter
  • Your daily must-read of conservative columns, cartoons and news. Coulter, Sowell, Krauthammer and more.
  • Townhall.com’s weekly inside scoop on what’s happening behind the scenes in the world of politics. When news breaks, we report.
  • Signup to receive the latest daily Townhall cartoons
Wednesday, May 20, 2009
Jonah Goldberg :: Townhall.com Columnist
Pelosi the Political Logjam
by Jonah Goldberg
Vote on It:
Average Vote:
[+] Text [-]
 
Poll
Will the Dems' health care Christmas Present to America be an improvement or detriment to our health care system?


Forget about where you come down on "torture" or "enhanced interrogations." The simple fact is that, as a political matter, the drive for a "truth commission" -- never mind a war crimes tribunal -- is dead as long as Nancy Pelosi is the speaker of the House.

And while I oppose the sort of witch hunt Pelosi and her energumens clearly crave, this isn't necessarily good news.

Pelosi is blocking the road to ritual human sacrifice because there's ample evidence that she was complicit in what she righteously condemns as torture. Principled opponents of the CIA's program insist that what Pelosi knew and when she knew it is irrelevant to the substantive issues at stake.

And they are absolutely right.

If you honestly think waterboarding is criminal torture -- I don't -- then Pelosi's approval of it is unfortunate and indicts her too, but it doesn't change the fact that crimes were committed. The problem for the Democrats is that politically, they cannot excuse their own leader while setting up a Nuremberg trial for Republican officials and honest lawyers who were merely doing their job. War crimes cannot only be war crimes when committed by Republicans.

A relevant example of the left's predicament can be found in the defenestration of former Louisiana Rep. Bob Livingston during President Clinton's impeachment. Then speaker-elect, Livingston was exposed for having an affair at precisely the moment the GOP-run House was poised to impeach Clinton for his perjury about adultery with an intern. They couldn't advance on Clinton with Livingston at the helm. The Clintonites understood this, which is why they implored Livingston not to resign.

But Livingston couldn't stand in the way of the tide, and did resign. Whether his transgressions were comparable to Clinton's was a moot point. Politically, Livingston had to get out of the way.

Now Pelosi is in the way. It's unclear if this was inevitable. If she had handled things differently, she might not have become a roadblock. But in her vanity, she couldn't admit wrongdoing or allow that the people she's demonized might not be villains.

Like a driver stuck in the mud, Pelosi has thrown herself into reverse, and every other gear imaginable, trying to get herself out of the ditch. Now everything she does just makes things worse and sprays a fine mist of mud and muck on everyone around her.

When asked if the CIA lied to her, Pelosi not only said yes but upped the ante, accusing the CIA of "misleading the Congress of the United States," a blockbuster accusation by itself, which she multiplied by adding: "They mislead us all the time."

The fog of Pelosi's obfuscation, self-contradiction and blame-shifting is too thick to parse in this space, but some of the highlights include her claim that, even though she was told of the program, she couldn't do anything because lawmakers weren't allowed to object or speak out because of secrecy laws. This is nonsense on its face. And the CIA apparently has leaked to Fox's Jim Angle that Pelosi knows this isn't true; she halted a 2004 CIA program she didn't like simply by complaining about it.

Pelosi is contradicted not only by her own statements and actions but by testimony from former Rep. Porter Goss (R-Fla.), who was in the room when Pelosi was briefed, and by President Obama's handpicked CIA director, Leon Panetta.

Pelosi's hypocrisy may be serving as a political logjam, but the issues at stake are far more serious. For all the talk about how the Bush White House "politicized" national security, it's now clear that Pelosi is a purely political creature, and much of the Democrats' opposition to the war on terror was nakedly partisan (a point underscored by Obama's unfolding embrace of Bush-era policies, such as his recent reversal on military tribunals).

Indeed, one of Pelosi's excuses is that she couldn't be distracted by speaking out against what she believes to be criminal torture because it was more important to win back a Democratic majority -- and become speaker. And, let the record show, Pelosi & Co. had no objection to selective CIA leaks when they undermined President Bush or the war effort. It's only when the CIA's testimony corrupts their simplistic moral narrative that the CIA becomes a nest of liars.

If the Bush administration made mistakes or committed crimes fighting the war on terror, those errors were far more bipartisan and systemic than the witch hunters want to acknowledge. A real truth commission might illuminate that fact. But that's the last thing Pelosi ever wanted. Meanwhile, Republicans clamoring for her scalp might ponder what they'll get if they succeed in forcing the Democrats to throw Pelosi over the side.

Share:
Vote on It:
Average Vote:
 
About The Author
Jonah Goldberg is editor-at-large of National Review Online.
 
TOWNHALL DAILY: Be the first to read Jonah Goldberg's column. Sign up today and receive Townhall.com daily lineup delivered each morning to your inbox.
Nancy Should Provide Proof of CIA Lies
These are some pretty big accusations Nancy is making. If what she says is true, people need to be removed or reprimanded at the CIA. On the other hand, if Nancy Pelosi is lying (which I believe she is), she should apologize to the CIA and go home, permanently. Nancy Pelosi is a perfect example of the corruption and deceit in Washington, D.C.

I think term limits would solve the majority of the corruption in politics. Our elite politicians are destroying America, brick by brick; they couldn't damage the country more if they tried. The hippies are in power.

PELOSI--UH, GOING AGAINST THE CIA?
REAL SMART.

LET ME SEE. THIS QUALIFIES AS DUMB AND DUMBER.

LET'S JUST KICK HER THE HELL OUT OF THERE.

SHE IS AN EMBARRASSMENT TO THIS COUNTRY.

OH, YEAH, OBAMA WILL SUPPORT HER AGAINST HIS CIA DIRECTOR SO HE CAN HAVE ANOTHER APPOINTMENT DEBACLE. I DON'T THINK SO.

HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HA HAH A!

NEXT: HARRY REID--I CAN SMELL HIM LEAVING THE CITY NOW.

ROWDY BOOTS

Pelosi for Life!
Long Live Pelosi!

pelosi for life
life in prison.

This article is not about Carbon Tax.
Sorry, you have failed this reader. Do not pass Go or collect $200. Try again next week. You have accepted current fashions and not addressed the real problem this nation faces, which is government regulation of carbon.

Carbon is really nice. I like it. I do not think carbon should be illegal or contraband.

yours, cold fusion

Panetta never said Pelosi was lying
3 others have come out saying the briefings were false. Looks to me like Cheney told the CIA to make them up.


I don't get it
The last bastion of a traitor is bailing out of congress, then they're off the hook ?
Nancy is dictator, and if she's gone someone else can take the politcal whoring by the neck and ride it into a truth commission ? Doesn't that truth commission mean Nancy will be grilled under oath as a former liar now citizen, since of course we don't execute traitors anymore, ever ?
I'm pretty sick of congress altogether and the endless stealing and lying and colluding with wallstreet by these demoncrats, who claimed they couldn't stand big business and wall street, but turn out to be their best ripoff artist buddies ever, in all of history and for all time.
That's a pretty amazing record. Things are so opposite what the dems claim they are, it wouldn't surpise me a bit if Nancy didn't ask the cia to rip the terrorists eyeballs out, shove bamboo shoots under their fingernails, and chop off appendages if need be.
I'm more than certain the compliant tight mouthed republicans wouldn't rat on the cocktail circuit queen, either. She probably got up and screamed pounding the table, foaming at the mouth yelling beat them till they give up the goods ! I know they're after my kind of people on my coast! -
She probably made a scene about her strange san fran crowd being a likely target for fundies.
LOL
Yep, that's what happened. I hate her now more than any democrat ever hated Bush. She is guilty of everything above, she made them torture people when they didn't want to and now she's caught. What a sicko, must be that S&M coastal stuff that made her absolutely dark hearted in the matter.

Tyler in WA: some elementary logic
Pelosi said "not-A".
Panetta produced records that showed "A".

Panetta did not have to say "Pelosi lied" in order to demonstrate that her version of events was false.

"Her version was false" means that she lied: unlike in the matter of any factual errors made by members of the previous administration, these were actual lies because she knew they were false when she said them. Scooter Libby went to jail for less.

On the other hand... maybe she didn't. Maybe each lie was true in her mind when she said it.

Either way, she needs to step down from the Speaker's chair. Mendacious or psychotic: those are your only choices.

Unless you'd like to settle for grossly incompetent.


+++

Truth Commissions

Excellent analysis (as always), Mr. Goldberg. Just one small quibble with your analogy:

Unlike Bob Livingston, Nancy Pelosi does not have a human conscience. And unlike Republicans, Democrats have no intellectual integrity.

I'm not so sure that the truth commissions are dead.




The Long Slow Torturous Demise
Nancy Pelosi has become the Anchor for the Democratic Party....and happily for me and the good of the country, that Anchor has run afoul on a rock formation at the bottom of the sea.

There it sits, stuck on the floor of the ocean, holding back the entire ship of the Liberal Agenda.

The poor Democrats are all manning the capstan, vigorously trying to haul the Anchor free of it's entanglements, yet all they're achieving is lowering the bow of the ship closer to the oncoming waves.

Soon water is going to start shipping aboard and causing the entire boat to flood.

The only solution is to cut the Anchor chain and abandon it to it's fate, yet the Dems don't seem to realize this as they're putting all of their efforts into rescuing the Anchor at any cost.

I say let them.

With any luck they'll pull the whole ship under the waves and a great deal of their crew with them.

Good Riddance...they deserve it.

Liberal Sitcom Is Crashing and Burning
Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid--and Joe Biden--are the gifts that just keep on giving. They are so incompetent that their antics are like a weekly sitcom. Of course, the Messiah is really cool with his head cocked up in the air, swiveling back and forth between his teleprompters and spending trillions we don't have.

As a conservative Republican I'd like to see this sitcom cancelled ASAP but it looks like this disaster is going to continue for another three years at least.

Funny thing, however, is that millions of my fellow citizens are too stupid to realize that they elected these losers and along with the rest of us are going to pay, pay, and pay for their stupidity.

Pelosi
Her comment that she was concentrating on getting her cronies elected rather than getting involved with the water-boarding situation shows the true character of the woman. She is power hungry and power driven and self-serving. That she would attack the CIA is reprehensible. We should look at the people we elect -- we have someone who left a girl in a car to drown; a serial philander and possible rapist; someone who got sweet deals on mortages; tax evaders; someone who is pork king and gets money to subsidize a three-plane airport; a cabinet full of tax cheaters -- I could go on and on. It is time to get rid of these people. Let us start with Pelosi.

What was Pelosi's Fatal Mistake?

All Liberals lie and obfuscate, it wasn't Pelosi's lying.

Pelosi was 'Stupid' to not recognize the Narcissism that controls Barack Obama - 'Hell hath NO fury, that compares to a Barack Obama who has NOT been recognized as the 'ONE'.

This was the 'Fatal Mistake' of Nancy Pelosi:
---------------------------------------------

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is not holding back when it comes to making her wishes known to the incoming administration.

The Politico newspaper reports Democratic insiders say Pelosi has “’set parameters’ for what she wants from Barack Obama and his White House staff — no surprises, and no backdoor efforts to go around her.”

Pelosi is in talks with incoming White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel. Sources say she wants to know when the administration has contact with rank-and-file Democrats — and why.

One insider says Pelosi is “not going to allow Obama to triangulate her.” Another added, “There is going to be tension…she wants to know what they are up to.”

When Barack Obama said "I Won" - that did NOT include anyone else - even the Speaker of the House.

Thomas
You painted a delicious picture. Whenever I think of that pusillanimous crew your analogy will surely come to mind. And let's hope it sinks quickly and they are floundering in the tide of a raging maelstorm of public anger..if media won't do it..we can..one by one..person to person.
You know that old cover of Norman Rockwell about how gossip is passed along..well it's not gossip with us but we can do the same. Bypass media, use the oral telegraph.

The Democrat motto

"I've never stood taller than when upon the back of a fallen comrade."

See ya Nance.
It's been real.
And it's been fun.
But it hasn't been real run.

A REAL SHOCK
Who would have believed one of our elected officials would lie to us?
Next you will expect us to believe there are presidential cabinet appointees who don't pay their taxes.

WHAT'S THE SOLUTION TO ACORN?
Click my name for the answer.

Why
could Clinton be impeached for unfaithfulness, when Newt and a lot of other republicans where just as bad? If our system really is as corrupt as Jonah says, then we really are screwed.

On the other hand, the situation being as it is, Pelosi will probably easily weasel out of it. The CIA, hasn't always been so reliable remembering things as they really were. Before 9/11, they had an insider who gave them a lot of the details about AQ..they lost it.

Tea Party
I agree.

The MSM has become such a joke that I just don't trust them anymore and I rely on my network of friends and fellow Conservatives to find out what the real story is anymore.

Word of mouth is becoming more and more relevant just as the MSM is becoming less and less relevant.

Thank God for FOX News, Conservative Talk Radio, the Internet, and of course, e-mail.

The Tea Party movement is strong and growing here in the First State and has proven to be quite a venue of it's own...it's great knowing that I'm not alone out there because in Delaware, home of Joe 'the Gaffe-Master' Biden, I sometimes feel like a pilgrim in an un-Holy land.

Thanks for the nod.

And Obozo is caught in the middle! he he

Which, no doubt, is why he's been quiet so far...

If Obozo sides with Peelosi, (she stays) he'll have the CIA less than happy with him... and NO ONE wants to have the CIA "less than happy with him/her."

If Obozo sides with Panetta/CIA, then he'll have the majority of Congress less than happy with him.

Why I'd say Obozo is on the horns of a dilemma.

I wish I'd said that
"Various conservative commentators have expressed their hope that gunning for Pelosi will blunt progressive calls for a "truth commission" to thoroughly investigate what really happened on Bush's trip to the "dark side". Fox's Neil Cavuto said we might be in a "Mexican standoff" wherein Pelosi would agree to drop the idea of investigations to prevent herself from attracting scrutiny. Steven Hayes, Dick Cheney's official biographer, said, "Democrats who have been so enthusiastic about truth commissions have to be stopping and saying, OK, wait a second." What conservatives are missing here is that this is a fight they were winning before they started gunning for Pelosi. Their best ally in this fight was Barack Obama, whose desire to "move forward" rather than focusing on the past had been the subject of much consternation. Had conservatives simply reached out to grab the hand that was being extended to them, they could have gotten what they wanted.
But in their zeal to score a tactical win, the right has made a truth commission more likely not less likely. Obama wanted to avoid a backward-looking focus on torture in part because it distracted from his legislative agenda. But if we're going to be looking backward anyway, thanks to conservatives' insistence on complaining about Pelosi, then the move forward strategy lacks a rationale. And far from forcing a standoff in which Pelosi will abandon her support for an investigation, the right has forced her into a corner from which she can't give in to moderate Democrats' opposition to such a move without looking like she's cravenly attempting to save her own skin."

I think Nan should stay on
I think Nan should stay on as speaker.
That would continue to drive home the silliness
of the dem leadership and quite possibly affect the 2010 congressional races.
Republicans should continue to harass but not to the point where dems are driven to remove her.
Keeping her and harry as the face of democRATS will help us.

daft: Are you and Tyler having a

"STUPID COMMENT" contest??

Clinton WAS NOT impeached for unfaithfulness YOU TWIT!

Clinton was impeached for LYING ... PERJURY!


"The CIA, hasn't always been so reliable remembering things as they really were.
Before 9/11, they had an insider who gave them a lot of the details about AQ..they lost it."


YOU are not only STUPID, YOU'RE MENTALLY UNBALANCED!




Obama brings back Memories

Remember when, America had Presidents that would NOT 'Bow and Scrape' to the Enemies of America?

Remember when, America had Presidents that thought America was a 'Great Nation' and did NOT apologize to the World and our Enemies for being a 'Great Nation'?

Remember when, America had Presidents that were willing to do whatever it took to protect our Military and save Soldiers lives - like Harry Truman, who stopped a War with Nuclear Weapons, instead of placing Soldiers in jeopardy by exposing their methods to the Enemy?

Remember when, America had Presidents like JFK that demanded that our enemies NOT arm Cuba with missiles, instead of sending $90 million to the enemies of America like HAMAS?

Remember when, America had Presidents that Demanded to our enemies, 'Mr Gorbachev Tear Down that Wall', instead of arming Lebanon with tanks and arms?

Remember when, America had Presidents that put their lives and fortunes at risk for the Freedom of Citizens, instead of putting the Citizens lives and fortunes at risk, in order to implement the 'Bondage of Socialism?

Remember when, America had Presidents that were Statesmen, instead of a 'Punk'?

Remember When?

Taft
"Unfaithfulness," while reprehensible, is not a crime.

Sexually abusing young interns in the Oval Office repeatedly and while on duty as the President of the United States and lying about it to official commissions is.

Let's try remembering facts as they were, not as your emotions wish them to be.

As for Newt, he has more integrity, sense and love of Country in his pinky-toes than the whole Obama administration, Pelosi congress and Reid senate have put together.

Between a narcissistic, incompetent ideologue as a president; a shrill, menopausal polished-up hippy as a speaker; a partisan hack with subhuman intelligence as a senate majority leader; a drooling endomorphic sodomite as the chair of the house financial service committee; a puerile tax-cheat as the treasury secretary; a racially-angry anti-American with a chip on his shoulder for attorney general; and a thick-thighed, pantsuit-wearing fruit of blatant nepotism as the secretary of state--I'd rather have the janitorial crew of the next high-school running the country rather than this bunch of partisan idiots.

tedmug
His idea too!

Voltaire
Don't you think that if crimes were committed, they should be impeached. If the facts are good enough, impeach Pelosi too. However harshly you feel about this administration, we should still stick with our laws.

Also, I don't understand why people like Newt. He is s shrill. His fake outrage over the CIA thing is over the top. During the Plame Gate fiasco, the right couldn't criticize the CIA enough.

They mislead us all the time, is exactly
backwards. The Democrats and RINOs mislead us all the time:
1 global warming
2 ethanol
3 not drilling for oil
4 back stabbing national security
5 green economy
6 unchecked spending.
Obama is spending like he's running California. Oops.
Support the troops, God Bless America.

Irony of the most savory sort
"But in her vanity, she couldn't admit wrongdoing or allow that the people she's demonized might not be villains."

Indeed. As I have been saying for weeks, the rich irony in all this is that Pelosi and the Dems could liberate themselves from all this well-deserved scrutiny simply by dropping their ridiculous claim that "waterboarding is torture"
regardless of the circumstances under which it is used. Instead, Pelosi and her ilk continue to prattle on, while at the same time taking aim at each other in the context of a circular firing squad.

And lest I be incomplete, Pelosi MUST step down for the simple reason that she is third in line for the presidency. This country cannot, and should not, tolerate a situation where someone occupying such a critical post openly distrusts the CIA, especially in a time of global conflict.

Taft
Newt Gingrich is "shrill"? Good grief. I guess in the Alice in Wonderland "through the looking glass" world in which you liberals wander, measured, common sensed, and well-tempered discourse qualifies as shrill if it does not fit your agenda.

Why is it that you guys--and Obama is the best example--think you can say whatever you want and have the rest of us swallow it as the truth?

Taft
When did the "right" attack the CIA over the Plame mess? I remember people attacking Joe Wilson's claims, Plame's claims of being "undercover", and the way the media ignored the lies and misstatements by the principles involved to push a purely partisan investigation and prosecution. The CIA was not attacked over the Plame mess because they did nothing wrong; it was Joe Wilson and valraie Plame who made up the story about her being a 'covert agent'...after she had been photographed by Vanity Fair with her ambassador husband.

As for Newt, I am not that impressed by him as many others seem to be. Newt fell in love with power after being elected Speaker, and he chose not to fight for the Contract With America; he got everything to a vote in the time he said he would, and when some of it was voted down, he declined to fight for it. According to Newt, he only promised to get it up for a vote, and once he did that it was time to move on. That cost him any respect he ever had from me.

Keep Palosi as the Speaker
Please stop harping on Palosi. She maybe the only thing standing between us and a host of America destroying programs. Lets have Truth commission, or two, or three. Anything to keep the cretins busy, until we will defenestrate them - in 2010.

Taft
I'm not so much upset at "crimes committed," although God knows what's under the rug if we just cared to lift it. I'm even willing to withstand a certain level of corruption, if I saw actions being taken to promote prosperity, freedom, private property and national security.

What I'm upset about is seeing my country being run into a ditch--willingly, at that--by an administration overrun by sophomores who think they're untouchable.

A president for whom the only priorities (besides himself) are knocking America down a few notches, punishing producers and securing power for his party, no matter the cost, is my concern. He'd be willing to take no matter how much "collateral damage" in the form of vaporized 401(k)s, compromised national security, layoffs and overall impoverishment--that's what concerns me.

A congress and administration equally divided between minions of the aforementioned gentleman and partisan hacks with even more radical an agenda--that's what concerns me.

A national media that acts like a teenager in love posting on MySpace rather than responsible adults taking their constitutionally-protected responsibility seriously--that's what concerns me.

And an dumbed-down electorate who takes more time shopping for a vacuum-cleaner than informing itself before choosing a president--that's what worries me even more.


Taft
The Plame fiasco was when the left kept insisting she was covert when she obviously didn't meet the criteria. Revealing her identity was a non-issue that the chattering masses of the left kept trying to elevate to a scandal.

Bubba Klintoon's perjury (lying under oath) fits the high crimes and misdemeanors mentioned in the Constitution.

SanFranNan's lying is comparable to Bubba's but wasn't under oath. If she does that, then it is a crime. Right now, she is just a typical pitiful, lying, deceiving Democrat, but I repeat myself.

Apples and oranges. Not the same.

Edamon
" National Review writes this:

Too often the agency has performed that job miserably, the greatest example being its gargantuan miscalculations about the Soviet Union. In retrospect, this is perhaps unsurprising. The CIA has always had a leftist bent, well represented in its upper echelons even under directors of staunchly anti-Communist and pro-national-security orientation.


The Weekly Standard

"The CIA is broken. It has been for years. There is too much anti-Bush leaking and not enough creative thinking. There are too many bureaucrats and not enough risk-takers. Goss tried to reform the agency and to enlist it in the good fight on behalf of the nation's foreign policy. Will his successor?"

"Senate Intelligence Chairman Pat Roberts told the Washington Post in October 2003 that "the executive was ill-served by the intelligence community," adding: "I worry about the credibility of the intelligence community." In another interview, Roberts accused the CIA of "egregious intelligence failure[s]," saying that the agency would have to earn back the trust of the political community. "Not having your actions second-guessed is something that is earned," he said."

Voltaire
"And an dumbed-down electorate who takes more time shopping for a vacuum-cleaner than informing itself before choosing a president--that's what worries me even more. "

Agreed, and that watches Fox News.


Voltaire
Between a narcissistic, incompetent ideologue as a president; a shrill, menopausal polished-up hippy as a speaker; a partisan hack with subhuman intelligence as a senate majority leader; a drooling endomorphic sodomite as the chair of the house financial service committee; a puerile tax-cheat as the treasury secretary; a racially-angry anti-American with a chip on his shoulder for attorney general; and a thick-thighed, pantsuit-wearing fruit of blatant nepotism as the secretary of state--I'd rather have the janitorial crew of the next high-school running the country rather than this bunch of partisan idiots.

!!BRILLIANT!!

Hard Thought: "Apples and oranges?"

Hardly! More like comparing "apples and pick-up trucks." :-)

But, that's too typical of the liberal mentality.


Hard Thoughts
The issue over Plames covert identity is debatable, but that the right lambasted the CIA is not. Did you hear what Gingrich said? He acted like disagreeing with the CIA by Pelosi was tantamount to blaspheming God.

Its over
Pelosi is finished! This trying to throw the CIA under the bus to cover her rear end, is it for her credibility! If the Californians that voted for her have half a brain they will kick her out in 2010!

Taft
Fox News gets it right, which is why the Democrats and the left hate it so.

One outlet got out from under the liberal thumb and this is simply not acceptable!

Your hypocrisy is showing. I bet you think Dan Rather is a good journalist along with the 60 Minutes crew.

ROFLMAO!!!!

Gingrich: Pelosi 'Lied,' 'Despicable,'
'Dishonest,' 'Vicious,' 'Trivial'

"Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich today offered a blistering critique of House Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s handling of oversight on harsh interrogation tactics, in a major escalation of partisan attacks being aimed at Pelosi.

In an interview with ABC News Radio’s Gingrich said Pelosi, D-Calif., 'has lied to the House' in claiming that 'she was never briefed by the CIA about the Bush administration’s use of waterboarding and other harsh tactics.'

"'I think she has lied to the House, and I think that the House has an absolute obligation to open an inquiry, and I hope there will be a resolution to investigate her. And I think this is a big deal. I don't think the Speaker of the House can lie to the country on national security matters,'

"'I think this is the most despicable, dishonest and vicious political effort I've seen in my lifetime.'

"'She is a trivial politician, viciously using partisanship for the narrowist of purposes, and she dishonors the Congress by her behavior.'

"'Speaker Pelosi's the big loser, because she either comes across as incompetent, or dishonest. Those are the only two defenses,'

“'The fact is she either didn't do her job, or she did do her job and she's now afraid to tell the truth.'”


Gingrich pretty much NAILED IT!

daft: There was and is NOTHING

"debatable" about Plames' "covert identity."

She was NEVER covert, and even if she was, which she was NOT, she was no longer covered by the protection act.

So pa-lease, put that to rest!

THIS has nothing to do with Peelosi!




Narcissistic, Incompetent, Idealogue
as President, etc. etc. - terrific post from SC; however, Nancy Pelosi is way, way past being menopausal. As a female senior citizen I can say without doubt - the woman has been a disgrace for many years - she belongs home with her grandchildren - end of story.
It is difficult to establish just who is the most arrogant - the most incompetent - Obama or Pelosi - then we have Biden - my God 1, 2, and 3 - very, very sad.
Never has there been such an array of weird hacks in control of Washington - capable of doing extensive damage to our country.

Taft
The isssue about Plame is NOT debatable. The facts speak for themselves. She was not covert. Period.

Bureaucrats tend to be left leaning because it is easier to get and hold that kind of job than work in the real world. It was a major sticking point in the State Department under Colin Powell and Condileeza Rice. So, of course, conservatives criticized the CIA.

The criticisms from conservatives are based on bias, incompetence and obstruction, not lying. Only democrats, when caught lying, blame the messenger ala Pelousi.

Mr. Goldberg
Good column. I believe that rep. will force her out. The best way to do that is to win in 2010, not by political grand standing. Yes she is a selfserving lier, yes she used the war to win, the dems are the first to yell traitor, but are great practitioners of it for polititical gain.
Kirk

What does it say
About a political ideology that is eager to persecute its own people, i.e. Democrats in a near stampede to bring the former administration up on charges, any charges.

The deliberate intention of the Democrats and Barack Obama to throw their opposition in the dungeon reveals a dictatorial philosophy that must be defeated.

At a minimum, Democrats must not retain a filibuster proof majority in the Senate in 2010. If they do, color us the newest member of the socialist collective. I for one don't want to be known as third of five.

Taft's posts
Always remind me of the simple rhetorical question posed by Anton Chigur to the gas station owner in the phenomenal film "No Country for Old Men":

"You don't know what you're talking about, do you?"

Pelosi Is Going Nowhere.
If there was a higher office than speaker,Pelosi would be eligible for it. That's the way Democrats work. They never 'take out their trash'. That's the Republicans modus operandi.

If a Democrat is caught with a bloody knife in their hand standing over a bleeding,dying victim,they would saying they were performing a life-saving manuever and no one would doubt them. At least no one with any clout.

If Pelosi goes,there will be fingernail marks on the carpets,the wall and anything in her way as she is dragged out,kicking and screaming.

Her mouth will still be smiling though,because that was frozen in place long ago.Face lifts and Botox took care of that.

marcmat: Re daft's posts? NOPE...

he doesn't have a clue what he's talking about!


Rowly: I'm afraid you might be right!


"If a Democrat is caught with a bloody knife in their hand standing over a bleeding,dying victim,they would saying they were performing a life-saving maneuver and no one would doubt them. At least no one with any clout."

Ain't THAT the truth!


Anne--Taft
When I was in high school, I was something of a "cut up." I used to say moronic things in class just to goad my teachers into a reaction. I have to believe that is Taft's goal in this forum.


Daft
You wrote: "Why could Clinton be impeached for unfaithfulness, when Newt and a lot of other republicans where just as bad?"

I don't know why I am even taking the time to respond to you. You are such a moron and I read your posts as comic relief most of the time. Maybe it's because this post is one of your stupidest if not the stupidest ever...I'm not sure. I feel compelled to answer as IF you could ever be saved from your pathetic little libtard brain. Let me explain it to you. I will type slowly so you can keep up.

You see Daft there's the fact that Bubba was POTUS, the leader of the free world, the chief law enforcement officer in the land while Newt and "others" weren't. I guess it's easy for you to forget that he took part in illegal, "reprehensible" behavior as POTUS and embarrassed many an American. While Newt and others may have lied about their affairs - they did not do so under oath nor did they try to have others lie for them. How do libdolts like you continue to pretend that situation did not exist with Bubba?

Therefore if you truly believe that Klinton was impeached solely for being unfaithful you are a total idiot. However if you think he was impeached as POTUS for committing perjury, subourning perjury, and for obstructing justice yet are just saying he was impeached for being unfaithful even though you know better - well that just makes you a typical, lying, scumbag/ libdrool.

Tell me Daft, which is it?

Anne
How long do you think these liberals here can keep up their lovefest? Surely some of them have enough integrity to admit they were wrong and will go away quietly.

Oh,I forgot to start my fairy tale with 'Once Upon A Time'.....

Taft 8:14
Clinton was NOT impeached for having an affair. He was impeached for perjury. Your just complying with the liberal talking points by obfuscating the issue.

Worse than an old "B" grade movie
Politics, well politicians, are worse than an old black & white "B" grade move. The Republicans with Clinton and now the Democrats with Obama, Peloise, Reid, and crowd! It would be funny & entertaining if it wasn't for the fact these people are running, or is that ruining, our country for years, if not forever!

daft the ignorant
why is this loser, the dumbest of the kooks to visit this site, so intent on never letting anyone forget how truly stupid he is.

We constantly learn how daft, typical of his commie mentors thinks that re-writing history makes the fantasy reality.

But there is some possible good news from calif. Seems that daft has been constantly telling all how wonderful things are in this state of we will reward every loser and illegal who shows up in the state no matter how much we grow the states deficits/

Ahnold has announced that as many as 5,000 teachers will be losing their jobs. Perhaps those unfortunate kids who have been foced to sit and listen to daft's indoctrination and leftist rewriting of history, will be saved when daft joins his pals, the illegals in the line at the local soup kitchen

But which is the more apt description. Calif deserves losers like daft or that daft deserves to reside in the toilet that calif is on the road to becoming.

More likely these two losers, daft and bankrupt calif deserve each other

Actually Rowly consider the number

of demos who not only attended the Tea Parties, but the number of demos who helped ORGANIZE the Tea Parties.

I suspect there are more than we think. :-)


Florida
'If the Californians that voted for her have half a brain they will kick her out in 2010.'

You have identified the genesis of the problem and, with thought, will see that she is safe in her home district. This is the same woman elected from a hot Code Pink base where the 'Naked Jesus Parade' is an annual event. This is the same woman elected from a district where transvestites dress as priests and nuns and disrupt church services. This is the same woman who has used a church as a meeting spot with illegals to tell them that actions to apprehend them and throw them out of the country is 'un-American'.

Frankly, it seems that more is missing from the majority of her electorate than just 'half a brain'.

Anne, Rowly
You two are on a roll today!

Back to Pelosi
When she was power grabbing at the DNC could anyone not see that this would be the writing on the wall? Here are the Dems: claiming to represent the middle of America, the little guy, meanwhile, they serve the Unions, Hollywood, and most special interest groups.

I had to watch last year's convention because of the historic nature of the first black to even get to the nomination.Nevermind about Hillary or the fact that he is probably Kenyan. I don't care anymore. It is history.

She was the person responsible for so many teachers trying to get $4 hot dogs from venders meanwhile $100,000 club members were treated to incredible buffets and meals prepped by CHEFS! That is N Pelosi. I mean the first pics of Obama in the Oval Office had HER practically trying to sit on his lap to make sure she was in the picture too!

She believes he's her man. She's not going to leave in a nice way. I do believe her constituents will vote her out. She must be embarrassing them even if they are liberal. She's a proven liar and it makes even the libs look bad.

I mean I think of the SF Bay area as largely Catholic and gay. She can't effect the right to marry your gay gf/bf through Constitutional Ammendment. That is a State thing.

Also many actual Catholics do not like the Pope to be upset with their leadership. If I lived there, I'd vote her out just because she lied about her visit with Pope Benedict XVI. Who cares if she rants about the CIA?

impeaching piglosi
why bother, she is the face of the dims in congress.

The country listened to her and her pet poodle, the intellectually challenged corrupt land deal reid, and voted the dims into power in congress.

But despite their promises of getting the budget under control, draining the swamp of political corruption, ending pork spending. congress under the dims is doing an even worse job than the repubs they replaced.

But piglosi and corrupt land deal fully support the agenda of the messiah, the attempted nationalization of the banks, the destruction of chyrsler and gm, the huge deficits and the trashing of this country where ever flap ears decides to visit.

While flap ears works to destroy america, piglosi and reid and their lackeys in congress sit on their hands and cheer him on.

But the way to punish piglosi and reid is for the voters to replace them and give the repubs a new majority in congress.

But by the time jan 2010 gets here is may already be too late. At the rate the three stooges of politics, the messiah, piglosi and reid are going there may be no america to save

LOL....good times...*sigh*


It's nice to see the Democrats have their time in the sun....it exposes so much and you know it just does my heart good to seem them squirm.

Torture
As reported by Andrew McCarthy at NRO

There was a little noticed bombshell in Washington’s waterboarding melodrama last week. And it wasn’t Nancy Pelosi’s implosion in a Capitol Hill press room, where she yet again tried to explain her inexplicable failure to protest the CIA’s “torturing” of detainees. No, this one detonated in the hearing room of the House Judiciary Committee. There, Attorney General Eric Holder inadvertently destroyed the warped basis for his claim that waterboarding, as administered by the CIA, amounted to torture....
Rep. Lungren pointed out that if the attorney general truly believes “waterboarding is torture,” he must also think we torture our own Navy SEALs and other special-operations personnel when we waterboard them as part of their training. “No . . . not in the legal sense,” countered Holder. You see, said he, it’s “a fundamentally different thing,” because

we’re doing something for training purposes to try to equip them with the tools to, perhaps, resist torture techniques that might be used on them. There is not the intent to do that which is defined as torture — which is to inflict serious bodily or mental harm. It’s for training. It’s different.

But it’s not different because “it’s for training.” Look at the torture statute (Sections 2340 and 2340A of the federal penal code) and try to find a “training” exception. There isn’t one. What removes an act from the ambit of torture (besides lack of severe pain) is intent. Lungren pressed this point, and Holder admitted that the training was “not torture in the legal sense because we’re not doing it with the intention of harming these people physically or mentally.” Intent, he acknowledged, was the key question.

Anne / Summers
Pelosi stays in office in CA.because she 'brings home the bacon' aka the Porkulus Package.

There are enough low-lifes there to keep her in office. Look at the rest of the officials out there.

They would be laughed out of most southern states.The vote yesterday may mean they are waking up.

Glad to see you back fighting with the rest of us,Summers. We need a calm source around. (That leaves Anne and myself out,I suppose). Hope you are well.

In regard to Valerie Plame,
would somebody please tell the stuck-on-stupid-taft who Richard Armitage is, his political affiliation, and his role in the affair!

Then, to apply the logic of bobbit, if taft continues to insist that the Republicans outed Plame, he is a total idiot. If on the other hand, he knows that Richard Armitage was the peson that revealed Plame's indentity, yet continues to advance the well debunked dim-party talking point, well that just makes him a typical, lying, scumbag/ libdrool.

I vote for the later!

Don C



Rowly, Leah
My dear friend Rowly, I am anything but a source of calm! But, I do thank you.

Leah,the voters in Plastic Pelosi's district that have common sense, morals, dignity and integrity are in the minority. I believe the two of them are married to each other. San Fran Nan is the patient who will continue to be elected to run the asylum.

Don
Every troll here knows the truth about Plame and every other left-wing dirty trick they deny.

They have a job to do and they do it well.They evidently get paid for each lie they tell.

No matter how many times they are told they are lying,they come right back with the same drivel.

Don
If Taft accepted the fact that Robert Novak and Richard Armitage have both acknowledged that Armitage was the person who leaked the information about a noncovert CIA employee, he would have no Wednesday argument. He has so few arguments as it is, you are threatening his Wednesday existence if you take this one away.

Ann
chances are obummer has 10 horns

NJPatriot -- NJ
chances are obummer has 10 horns -- NJPatriot

======================

Maybe! haha after all the Illinois lottery came up 666 the day after he was elected. (Nov 5th 2008)

(http://www.illinoislottery.com/)

Bizarre but true.

Pelosi is an idiot
Politics aside, Nancy Pelosi's intelligence has never impressed me. I remember her acceptance speech when she was made minority leader. It was almost nothing but monosylabic words. I think she used 2 or 3 words that have 2 or more sylables during that speech. I might be wrong, it's been a while, but I CAN remember thinking to myself "Thank God she isn't a Republican."

I'm not saying this because of the standard "Everyone who disagrees with me is an idiot" line. The Clintons, Barack Obama, and Joe Lieberman are all people with whom I have varying degrees of political disagreement, but I don't consider them "dumb." "Wrong," perhaps, but not dumb. Pelosi is dumb. To me she presents, at a maximum, the same level of intelect ascribed to George W. Bush by the Left.

Summers
Do you know who told Novak? And, why did Plame have an undercover identity? I'm not much interested in this line of debate though, it was't central to my point and off thread.


May 29, 2003 – Vice President Cheney’s chief of staff I. Lewis “Scooter” Libby allegedly requests information from Under Secretary of State Marc Grossman regarding the ambassador’s trip to Niger . The State Department provides Libby with a report on the trip and Libby is told for the first time that the ambassador is Wilson , according to a federal indictment of Libby later released by the Office of the Special Counsel, in October 2005. (Fitzgerald, Patrick J., Department of Justice, United States of America v. I. Lewis Libby. 28 October 2005).


June 2003 – State Department intelligence officials reportedly prepare a memo on the Niger affair mentioning Wilson ’s trip to Niger and Valerie Wilson’s role in selecting her husband for the mission. The exact date is uncertain. The memo identifies Valerie Wilson but not her status as a covert agent, and it does not use her maiden name Valerie Plame. According to one account, the memo was classified and the paragraph containing information about Valerie Wilson was marked with “(S)” to indicate that the information was classified at the “secret” level. The CIA applies this level of classification to the identities of covert officers

More facts here for the ignorant:

http://www.factcheck.org/society/the_wilson-plame-novak-rov e_blame_game.html

Taft is Daft
Plamegate, aren't they gonna make another loser movie about this, Oliver Stone Produced starrring Sean Penn and Jeanene Garafolo. It will be a sure sell out, probably make more than Star Trek. You dimwits really know how to pick movie subjects. Not!!!!!!!!

Happy Jake - VA
"Nancy Pelosi's intelligence has never impressed me..."

What intelligence?

Taft
I know who Robert Novak said told him.

Valerie Plame was not an undercover operative at the time and had not been for some years. I find it curious that she was the wife of 'Ambassador' Wilson and was expected not to be recognized by anyone anyway. That bleached blonde would be noticeable anywhere. You need to go back and look at the time frames of her career and his career. (Is Michelle Obama a covert agent?) The whole thing would have been nothing had Wilson not tried for his fifteen minutes of fame by his self-congratulatory article.

Frankly, Taft, I would be digging up this trash if I were a liberal or a Dem, if there is a difference, and I were faced with the outrageous decisions being shoved down the American taxpayers' throats right now.

I am not sitting here on the computer all day. As I have several things going on right now, if you reply and I do not respond, consider that I will attend to your post when I find the time.

daft the retard
the country is falling apart thanks to irresponsible dimocrap spending and the efforts of your messiah to destroy capitalism and this dimwit is still concerned about plame and bubba's impeachment.

Daft the clueless, how about getting with the program and realize that your dim masters are the problem.

And one of the last reports citing the cost of the illegals you tell us you love and believe are essential to the country and most particularly calif cost the citizens of california some $10.5 billion per year in stolen social services and the cost to the penal system for incarcerating these criminals

Perhaps if you losers were concerned about the legal citizens and the earners rather than enabling parasites and other losers you state wouldn't be in the position it is in

What a shame!
Summers I feel real sorry for those two in her "Plastic district." She is truly awful even for her own party. I don't even want to visit to even see the bridge.

I didn't hear her acceptance speech but I can imagine. She's a legend in her own mind.

Hey Taft! I hope you aren't out there speaking for any Buckeye's. The Taft Theatre is one of my favorite places back home. Wow! It seems you read about as much as I do and just take the wrong side.

Politicians only "talk" law when they go on the attack. Unfortunately, right now your side is going to stand to lose because of this. Think Monica-gate or Iran/Contra affair. I feel these things hurt America. It brings a particular type of scrutiny.

First, Pres. Obama from Day 1 goes out and says "Guantanamo is going to be closed in one year and we are going to take these individuals and try them in Federal Court." He goes on to say that he's going to work with the CIA and no one is going to be in trouble. He meets with them and immediately after says basically, "Oh! Heads are going to ROLL!" Attack!

Panetta, realizing this is unsavory to voters who may not have LIKED the Bush administration but find this sort of thing repugnant, stood up for the CIA. The president is probably grateful Pelosi is such a big mouth because it takes the heat off him and he can get back to socializing the government and paying back his union pals. Panetta's got his back.

Pelosi should resign as speaker.

Clearly Pelosi has disqualified herself as third in line to the Presidency.

She should resign as Speaker of the House.

Leah and UI
I don't understand why, if Pelosi is lying, she should be treated more severly than the actual ones who went out of the way to secretly have the tortures done? In the scheme of things. This is the order of responsibility.

Cheyne
Yoo and Bybee
The CIA
Pelosi (?)

I'm like Obama though, the CIA should be left out.

useful idiots
I beg to differ. For piglosi to resign gives her a free pass from the responsiblity of being held accountable for her misdeeds and poor leadership.

The repubs need to focus on her and corrupt land deal reid and how they enabled the messiah to run up these new $trillion deficits/

But people seem to ignore that piglosi is just as power hungry as the messiah and will not go willingly into the night, just as long as she has someone to blame for her own missteps.

But being the daughter of the former mayor of baltimore, piglosi fully understands ward politics and the payoff system. I would hazard a guess that she is owed more political favors by the congressional dims and can use that to keep her in power.

Plus I doubt she will sacrifice herself willingly just to save the messiah who just like piglosi will always find someone to blame when he screws up

taft the retard
so you admit you are like the messiah. Totally clueless, you hate america, you want to destroy capitalism and implement socialism and you are severely intellectually challenged.

Btw has your lip started to heal yet or did you get a new cut when the messiah pulled up his zipper

Bad Moon Rising
I have an idea that Barack Hussein Obama has pulled the wool over the sheeps' in congress eyes to get the upper hand with them.

I think he used them to help him get into office..(I can't say duly elected because I don't believe he was).

They allowed ACORN into every state to manipulate the election,then bribed the electors to do their dirty work.

As soon as he gets all of what the wants,he will need them no more and when they realize it,it will be too late to put the brakes on...the train has left the station.

This is a dangerous man. He works for dangerous people. They will stop at nothing to get what they want. What they want is TOTAL power.


Taft
Pelosi claims water boarding is torture (it is not).
Torture is a crime.
She was complicit.
She is guilty of what she claims is a crime (politically motivated).

Either that or:

Water boarding does not meet the definition of torture which makes her a pol using national security to make political points, which is just despicable.

Those are your choices. Pick one and don't try to call attention to anything else as this is the oldest trick in debate.

(Oh, look! A tree!)

Hard Thought: Oh pa-lease! That's WAY

too complicated for daft!

I mean WAY, WAY, WAY, WAY, TOO complicated for daft!


Anne
I saw a cartoon the other day that had Pelosi thinking about waterboarding...it had a picture of a guy on a waterski board.Maybe she thought that is what they were talking about!

PEOPLE PEOPLE
For the last time America does not TORTURE

I was watching CSPAN and they (Congressional Committee) had Holder, Obamas boy there and asked him this question

Do we call or consider it torture when we WATERBOARD our boys(MILITARY) in SERE Training,and Holder replied

No Sir

Then the Congressmen replied, Then if its not called or considered TORTURE when used on our own Military personnel in TRAINING then how can you claim it is TORTURE when used on the Enemies of these United States of America
and Holders reply, I COULDNT

IT IS NOT TORTURE ask Obamas peeps they are just pulling the WOOL over you UNEDUCATED IGNORANT A$S$S$S LIB VOTERS

Anne
She you still putting it on them

Hope things are well with you and family.

I see DAFT is still trying to blame Bush and Cheney for Obama failures

I think what they are really angry about is Obama keeping allot of BUSH THE TERRIBLES POLICIES. It is so funny to see them squirm when Obama lies about what he would do and what he did do.


gatorbait: All is well, thank you.

And how are you and your family???

If our beloved country wasn't in such trouble, this would all be very funny... although I have to admit that I'm enjoying watching Peelosi squirm.





Rowly: Doesn't surprise me...

Peelosi NEVER struck me as a very bright person.




Anne
The Families fine , my son enlaw just went to Iraq but everythings good here

I think that Harry Hitler is in trouble for I cannot ever think of a time when he voted with REPS on anythinbg. But the problem is he is losing ground in Nevada for 2010 elections and everyone thinks he will try to pull a TYPICAL LIBERAL MOVE and fake being in the Middle just to try and get Voters from other Parties to vote for him.

SQIRM WORM SQUIRM
SOON WHAT OBAMAS PASTOR FOR OVER 20 YEARS STATED WILL COME TRUE.

THE CHICKENS WILL BE COMING HOME TO ROOST SOON AND THE LIBERALS WONT LIKE THEIR DROPPINGS

Taft
Pelosi said that the CIA LIED and that behavior was and is NOT UNUSUAL. Oops!!!! She was, as usual, so caught up with trying to show every tooth in her mouth, flipping her hair, attempting to convey strength through body language, and too DUMB to realize she accused the CIA of committing crimes. As she made that MAJOR FAUX PAS, Panetta had no alternative but to take a stance that made her look like the drooling idiot she is. That is why there is such an uproar. All of the foreign media caught it and reported it.

Pelosi is above her pay grade in attempting to be a housewife, much less a position third from the top. If she is the best the Dems have to offer as Speaker, the Dems need to stop crowing that the GOP is DOA and look at themselves. They certainly cannot take much comfort in Harriet Reid being leader of the Senate, she who cannot stand the 'smell of tourists'. Harriet looks like a transvestite escapee from Plastic Pelosi's district.

But for Biden, Pelosi would hold the record for foot in mouth disorder.

gatorbait
For the last time America does not TORTURE... gatorbait

----------------------

I watched Pelosi try to wiggle out of a lie - every time she is on TV seems like torture to me. :)

H.T and Summers

If Pelosi knew they were wb, she knew it was a crime, but we need to know if they said that or told her enhanced interrogation. From what I understand, no one on these committees are allowed to take notes or have any evidence of what was said, however, if Pelosi was there, on the dame day that Harmon heard things, that resulted in Harmon's objection, through a letter, then that should about seal it. At that point, it would be evident she did falsely accuse the CIA. Many Republicans have done that too. If you want all people who falsely accuse the CIA, Cheyne included, then I'm game. But, as things go, the crime of ordering torture should be on the table too. And, there is compelling evidence that there was more than WB. Like slicing their balls.

daft: I apologize for all the times I

said you were dumb or stupid.

I honestly didn't know that were REALLY MENTALLY CHALLENGED. I REALLY thought you were just playing dumb.


"If Pelosi knew they were wb, she knew it was a crime, but we need to know if they said that or told her enhanced interrogation."

First of all, waterboarding was NOT A CRIME!

Repeat that... "waterboarding was NOT A CRIME!"

Good. Got that now? :-)

Waterboarding was NOT TORTURE!

Repeat that... "Waterboarding was NOT TORTURE!"

Good. Got that now? :-)

NOW, the CIA always keeps DETAILED (you know what "detailed" means?) notes on meetings etc.

Panetta made it VERY CLEAR what Peelozi was told.

There is no question... The CIA knows exactly what was said.

End of issue!





Taft
Wrap your brain around this: Pelosi has accused the CIA of lying to Congress.

Jane Harmon, whom Plastic Pelosi despises, had the sense and the integrity to follow proper procedure to voice her objection to the CIA. Pelosi didn't bother with it. When waterboarding became a political football, she lied to CHA. Now her integrity or, more accurately, her lack thereof is called into question. She is unfit for the office she holds.

Summers: I am absolutely convinced...

part, if not ALL, of the pay "Lunatic Liberal Central" gives these trolls is in the form of drugs...



Summers my dear friend

I need to know if the term 'Pre Viable Fetus'
has any special Legal Meaning, or does it just mean the 'Fetus' was normal and ready for birth?

Thanks, if you can spread any light on this.

Retired Geek
Summers may not be here and I may be wrong,but I would think it is a baby who is to underdeveloped to live outside the womb.I don't know what it means legally,though.

Rowly

Notice the term near the end of this article.

'Pre Viable Fetus' is a term Barack Obama used over and over,
------------------------------

"In Congress, from 2000-2002, while Barack Obama was still a state senator in Illinois, we here in Washington, D.C., were dealing with the federal Born-Alive Infants Protection Act (BAIPA), a project in which I was deeply involved.

The original bill was a simple two-paragraph proposal -- it established in black-letter law that for all federal law purposes, any baby who was entirely expelled from his or her mother, and who showed any of the specified signs of life, was to be regarded as a legal person for however long he or she lived, and that this applied whether or not the birth was the result of an abortion or of spontaneous premature labor.

NARAL immediately attacked the bill as an assault on Roe v. Wade: "The Act would effectively grant legal personhood to a pre-viable fetus -- in direct conflict with Roe. . . . In proposing this bill, anti-choice lawmakers are seeking to ascribe rights to fetuses 'at any stage of development,' thereby directly contradicting one of Roe's basic tenets."

Retired Geek
Where is Summers when you need her? She's a lawyer.If a baby is born alive ,who's to say if it could live or not? I think as long as it is breathing,it should be kept alive by any means possible.It should be God's decision if it should live or die,after that.

I still don't know what it means legally. I wish I knew law.

John Boehner admits that the CIA lied
John Boehner admitted that the CIA has lied to congress before
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/5/20/733751/-Boehner-adm its-CIA-has-lied-to-Congress

tyler the troll
as if any of us take anything from the most biased of the leftie sites as fact.

Funny how you losers annoy us here but how daily kooks censors all who won't drop to their knees to service the messiah.


Rowly,
If a baby is born alive and let die due to lack of attention, as far as I am concerned that is murder.

Tyler
I remember when the plane was shot down by the military or CIA. The plane was mistaken for another plane. If I recall correctly one plane was trying to show the confusion with the target. I don't remember what ultimately happened with that.

The situation with Pelosi seems to be her ADHD that kept her from hearing what she was told. Jane Harmon, whom Plastic Pelosi hates, understood it and properly wrote a letter expressing her reservations on what she had been told. Maybe San Fran Nan was off for a facial and didn't realize this would become politicized, leaving her on the wrong side by not taking action as Harmon did. So, she lied and said the CIA lied about the briefing. The slick politician spin did not get her out of this one before she dug her grave on it. She didn't say that she couldn't recall or remember, she made up a goofy story that only got goofier each time she tells it. She did call the CIA liars. Oooooooh... She best hope she has no secrets to hide that she wouldn't want leaked.

Rowly,
A baby is born alive if it draws a breath.

Summers
But is it viable if it ,say four months old?

Tyler
It's amazing that now, after bashing the CIA for years, they suddenly are indignant.

"We can not have a intelligence community that covers up what it does and then lies to congress.
(R) Hoekstra

The CIA..so professionally, so intellectually indefensible and so fundamentally misleading that it is damaging to our National Security.

Newt

Republican
Peter King

"The CIA employees were having orgies at the water gate hotel."

Oh boy
Speaking of lies

1. June 26, 2003 - George W. Bush.

"The United States is committed to the world-wide elimination of torture and we are leading this fight by example. I call on all governments to join with the United States and the community of law-abiding nations in prohibiting, investigating, and prosecuting all acts of torture and in undertaking to prevent other cruel and unusual punishment."

2. June 26, 2005

'We don't torture'. That was then U.S. President George W. Bush's emphatic response in


3. Sep 6, 2006 ... Bush: 'We Don't Torture'.

4. October 5, 2007 This government does not torture people, our stick to US laws and international obligations."

Taft/5th request


This may be a startling revelation to you.
Torture has been illegal in the USA for many, many years.

You claim that waterboarding as practiced by the CIA is torture, which would render said practice illegal.

Why did the Senate voted Feb 2008 to make illegal the CIA use of waterboarding?

More hatemongering on Townhall
Goldberg's article is the usual Townhall slop, designed to facilitate hate in the usual bunch. Notice how he claims there's "ample evidence" that Pelosi was complicit, but doesn't quite manage to say what the evidence is.

As I sure you've heard before, this Pelosi smear is simply another desperate Republican tactic designed to magically shift blame to Pelosi for the crimes of the Bush administration. It is one of the most transparent and logically incoherent tactics I've seen in a long time. It is a joke - it makes all you people look like fools.

Just keep in mind that Pelosi is in favor of investigations and prosecutions.

to the author, with 5 stars.
Alright, this is a good column and an amazing discussion.

Maybe next week Jonah Goldberg can write about Carbon Tax (cap&trade). I truly feel that once we accept gov't regulation of this trace gas in the atmosphere, we have accepted gov't control of every aspect of our lives. This should be the mother of all battles for freedom. I am sometimes conspiratorially minded, and I believe that we will see a lot of juicy, trendy Pelosi-type stories designed to keep talk show hosts busy, while Waxman-Markey is passed.

Waxman-Markey is not technically a tax but a cap & trade. I think we should be very stuborn in calling it a carbon tax, though. Heritage Foundation says,

"Before those in a covered sector can emit a greenhouse gas, they need to have the ration coupons (also known as pollution permits or allowances) for each ton emitted. Because the ration coupons will have a value, and therefore a cost, cap and trade becomes a tax on fossil fuels and the energy they generate."

So let's not lose the language war. Carbon rationing is another good term for this. Please please, next articles on carbon tax! I like carbon. As a matter of fact some of my best friends are carbon based!

Thomas of DE
I too would like to see Peloosi stay, and be ridiculed. A wounded Peluci will be easier to defy, and perhaps revolt against. Let them expend energy trying to cover for her - sooner or later, they'll realize the effort wasn't worth the expenditure and dump her anyway. But the dhimmi's will have been seriously delayed and derailed and right now, we need time...

much Ado about NOTHING
Democrats are not going to throw Speaker Perlosi "over the side" over what amounts to a lot of repub/con noisemaking/tantrum on a non issue. Since the takeover by the dems of the federal govt and repubs/cons assigned involuntarily to minority status, the repubs/cons are in a state on denial, frustration and rage. they want revenge and are looking for any major dem scalp they can find.

Speaker Pelosi would be wise to just be quiet and let this one fizzle out, which it is wont to do, because upon deeper examination, there is no substance to the issue whatsoever. repubs/cons are just making a lot of revengeful noise out of frustration of being the minority.

About those CIA Docs
So those CIA documents that supposedly show that Nancy Pelosi was briefed on waterboarding also identify Porter Goss as a member of Congress at the time he was actually Director of the CIA.

Left Angle
"Speaker Pelosi would be wise to just be quiet and let this one fizzle out, which it is wont to do, because upon deeper examination, there is no substance to the issue whatsoever."

True she would be wise to let the whole issue go but the cat is out of the bag now and she's managed to dig a hole for herself. I personally am glad she's done this because it may mean the end of her career or at least her stepping down. She's gonna have a hard time convincing anyone her Republican colleagues knew something she didn't when they all served on the same panel and recieved the same briefings. Not only is it a ludicrous assumption but it begs the question of HER competence. If she knew, why didn't she publicly oppose it then?

" repubs/cons are just making a lot of revengeful noise out of frustration of being the minority."

LMAO! So in your view it's "revengeful noise" when Pelosi's involvement is brought to light? What would you call her calling for prosecution of those who knew/endorsed waterboarding in the first place, which includes HER? Is it a call to justice when the accuser is HERSELF implicated? OH WAIT.... she's a Democrat and therefore above the law in your eyes, I forgot.

Alzheimers, Incompetence or Corruption?
Poor Bela Pulosi thinks this is going to go away but she is soooo mistaken. It's going to follow her around and bite her on the *ss for as long as she remains in her position as Chief Liar of the House of Representatives. This woman is a stone idiot!

STONEWALLING AMERICANS
Nancy Pelosi owes the American people the truth. The media made our government the tyrannical mess it is today, and now Pelosi stonewalls the media, and the American people. Where is Obama? Why is he not ordering an investigation, or is this just more diversion from what they're doing behind the backs of the American people? Someone is lying, either Panetta or Pelosi, and it's up to Barry Obama to get to the bottom of it, the American people deserve the truth.
Sign Up to Post Your CommentsSign Up to Post Your Comments
If you are already registered, click here to login. Otherwise, please take a few seconds to register with Townhall.com. Once you sign up, you’ll be able to post your comments immediately, use the action center, get podcasts, and more!
Note: Fields marked with a red asterisk (*) are required.
Salutation:
First Name:
*
Last Name:
*
Email:
*
Nickname:
*
Note: Nick name will be shown when you post comments.
Address 1:
*
Address 2:
City:
*
State:
*
Zip:
*
Phone:
      
Your daily must-read of conservative columns, cartoons and news. Coulter, Sowell, Krauthammer and more.
(Bi-Weekly) We highlight the best opportunities from our partners for surveys, action items and more.