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Wednesday, November 12, 2008
Jonah Goldberg :: Townhall.com Columnist
The GOP Looking Glass
by Jonah Goldberg
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Was George W. Bush a conservative president?

For liberals, this is a settled question. Bush is not merely a conservative, he is the conservative. He is the ur-right-winger, the Platonic ideal of all that is truly Republican.

For some liberals, this is clearly just a tactical pose. Bush is unpopular, so they hope to discredit conservatism by marrying it to Bush, just as Barack Obama succeeded by painting John McCain as a Bush clone. This is the moment, as Obama might say, to permanently block the right-hand fork in the road so the country can only move leftward.

The view on the right is very different, and the debate about the Bush years will largely determine the future of the Republican Party and the conservative movement.

Bush's brand of conservatism was always a controversial innovation on the right. Recall that in 2000 he promised to be a "different kind of Republican," and he kept his word. His partner in passing the No Child Left Behind Act was liberal Massachusetts Sen. Ted Kennedy. Bush's prescription drug benefit -- the largest expansion of entitlements since the Great Society -- was hugely controversial on the right. He signed the McCain-Feingold bill to the dismay of many Republicans who'd spent years denouncing campaign-finance "reform" as an assault on freedom of speech. The fight over his immigration plan nearly tore the conservative movement apart.

This is not to suggest that Bush was in fact a liberal president. Politics is not binary like that. There were conservative triumphs -- and failures -- to the Bush presidency. He appointed two solid conservatives to the Supreme Court. He tried to privatize Social Security, though that failed for sundry reasons.

His much-touted "compassionate conservatism" was rejected by many on the right as a slap to traditional conservatives and an intellectual betrayal of Reaganite principles. It was a rhetorical capitulation to Bill Clinton's feel-your-pain political posturing and an embrace of the assumptions that have been the undergirding of liberalism since the New Deal. That is, the measure of one's compassion is directly proportionate to one's support for large and costly government programs.

And Bush admitted as much. In an interview with the Weekly Standard's Fred Barnes, Bush explained that he rejected William F. Buckley's brand of anti-government conservatism. Conservatives had to "lead" and to be "activist," he said. In 2003, Bush proclaimed that when "somebody hurts" government has to "move." This wasn't a philosophy of government as much as gooey marketing posing as principle. Ronald Reagan would have spontaneously burst into flames if he'd uttered such sentiments.

Dissent from Bush was muted for years, in large part because of 9/11 and the Iraq war. Conservatives, right or wrong, rallied to support their president, particularly in the face of shrill partisan attacks from Democrats who seemed more interested in tearing down the commander in chief than winning a war. But the Bush chapter is closing, and the fight to write the next one has begun.

In one corner, there are a large number of bright, mostly younger, self-styled reformers with a diverse -- and often contradictory -- set of proposals to win back middle-class voters and restore the GOP's status as "the party of ideas" (as the late Daniel Patrick Moynihan put it).

In another corner are self-proclaimed traditional conservatives and Reaganites, led most notably by Rush Limbaugh, who believe that the party desperately needs to get back to the basics: limited government, low taxes and strong defense.

What's fascinating is that both camps seem implicitly to agree that the real challenge lurks in how to account for the Bush years. For the young Turks -- my National Review colleagues Ramesh Ponnuru, Yuval Levin and David Frum, the Atlantic's Ross Douthat and Reihan Salam, New York Times columnist David Brooks, et al. -- the problem is that Bush botched the GOP's shot at real reform. For the Limbaugh crowd, the issue seems to be that we've already tried this reform stuff -- from both Bush and McCain -- and look where it's gotten us.

Neither camp has adequately explained where Bush figures in their vision for the future of the party. Is reform going to be a debugged compassionate conservatism 2.0 or a Reaganesque revival of conservative problem solving? Does back-to-basics mean breaking with the precedents of the last eight years or building on them?

The irony is that both camps agree on a lot more than they disagree. The reformers are committed to market principles and reducing the size and role of government, and so is the back-to-basics crowd. The problem is that an elephant named George in the room is blocking each side from seeing what the other is all about. But hopefully not for much longer.

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About The Author
Jonah Goldberg is editor-at-large of National Review Online.
 
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It's WAR
Social Conservatives vs. Social Moderates
That's all...very simple
Forget the fiscal window dressing

Bush was a "cafeteria conservative".
Like a Catholic with a condom, a Baptist with a cocktail, or a Mormon with a Coke, Bush was a "cafeteria conservative".

Here is the short-list illustration of my point.

Con: He lowered taxes, he appointed decent judges, he supported the military.

Non-Con: He created new entitlements, he expanded the federal role in education, he sought a blanket amnesty for illegal aliens.

The Leftists' opinions of him do not change any of that and will be immaterial to the verdict of history.


Jonah
"Was George W. Bush a conservative president?"

You might as well ask, "Was Joseph Stalin a conservative?"

Republicans, like Bush, have too many quiet brands of socialism. They use phrases like, "We need to inject capital into the financial sector."
Sounds fancy, well hold onto your wallet.

Who is we? 'We' is the American taxpayer. What is capital? 'Capital is taxpayer's money. What is the financial sector? The 'financial sector' is certain Republican-donating banks.

As of now, Bush and Paulson have given their favorite banks $250 billion. What are these banks doing with that money? Most are paying dividends to their precious stockholders. This is the most envious of government teat sucking of all. Wealth-redistribution in a time of war is most distasteful.

This Republican give-away takes money from Main Street and gives it to the banks' owners. George Bush and Hank Paulson certainly know how to take care of their friends. In sum, it is yet another example of the ruthless expropriation of wealth from the American downtrodden toiling strata to those in the upper strata.

Constitution Party
The Bush legacy, after all is said and done, will go down in history as predominantly liberal.
To those of us who are skeptical about the possibilities for the Republican party to ever find it's roots again, it's nice to hear about conservative alternatives such as the Constitution Party.

Personally I would be an enthusiastic supporter of a truly conservative party that was conservative to the point of "KISS" (keep it simple, stupid) or:

Foreign Policy - Downsize the State Department to the point where it will follow and obey the current administrations' policies. Adjust our overseas military presence to present and perceived future political tendencies. Drastically curtail our meddling and trying to impose our will over cultures we barely understand. Live and let live...but don't mess with us!
Economy - Again, drastically cut government meddling in the economy and restore "Free Enterprise" (We've abandoned these principles, while China is embracing them) - Reign in frivolous law suits and trial lawyers, curtail bureaucratic control over business and institute a simple, one page, tax code. Free enterprise means the right to succeed and a right to fail, (NO bailouts of any kind to anyone) should a business fail, if fraud involved, the responsible parties must be punished.
Education - Get government totally out of it.
Environment - Must be dealt with on a state and local level.
Foreign Trade - Reciprocity is the key word.
Defense - Focus on just that: DEFENSE. Focus on intelligence and missile defensive systems. Preempt when necessary.
Media - No more privileges on "anonymous sources" - they must either identify them or refrain from publishing "hearsay"..
Term Limits for Congress - This is a must! No more "careers" in politics!

took long enough
It's true, George W. Bush didn't govern in a way that was remotely conservative. Nice of the National Review to notice. It would have been nicer if they ran this article for the first 400 weeks of the Bush administration, rather than just in the last 10 weeks, but better late than never, I suppose.

Too bad G.W. won't burst into flames.

This country was founded with the intent that the fededral government was to be in the background; like referees in a football game.

But over time, the number of referees gradually increased to point that there are now more referees on the field than players.

The refs are getting in the way, running into players and actually tackling ball carriers they don't think should have the ball, taking handoffs for running backs who they don't think should get the ball, recovering fumbles for weak teams and fudging the score to ensure "equality for everyone" so that every team wins every game.

The result is that players are leaving in droves to join overseas leagues and spectators are no longer interested in paying thosuands of dollars to be part of the game.

But because it is such an historic moment for the league to have just chosen its first black commissioner/savior, he will miraculously make the players come back and will fill the stands. (Because of course, the predictor of success of a person depends on how historic they are.)

And this wonderful, wonderful change from the mostly stupid liberal Bush presidency to the sure to be highly insane socialist/Marxist Obama presidency can be laid squarely in the lap of the "moderate" machinations of the infuriatingly wimpy George W. "liberal as Bill Clinton's libido and proud of it" Bush.

We know where Bush and his other insufferable "moderate" Republicans factor in to the future: as the single greatest roadblock to defeating the greatest threat to the loss of individual liberties necessary for prosperity that the United States has ever faced with the coronation of a liberal fascist.

Screw the GOP.

Screw Bush.

Screw liberals of both parties.

Most of all, screw "moderate" Republicans who are nothing but slow-motion liberals.

The Fallacy of 'Mother' Government
Government can't do all things for all people without turning into tyranny but apparently we have to learn that lesson all over again. "Compassion" will trump the tried and true principles of conservative government every time. What Americans must understand is that it is impossible to "save" every American from disaster that may befall them--from failure to pay the mortgage to getting off cocaine addiction. The universe is implacable: Your survival is, in the end, based on your own actions and no government ever constituted can guarantee your health or a long life. People who depend on government for their subsistence and continued existence are making a very bad life choice. They trade freedom for security and will get neither.

What so hard go get re LIMITED GOVT?
There is always the Libetarians again if the Reps don't understand LIMITED GOVT. -- Jeez, these young "Turks" must be products of our educational system. The Left has even won over the minds of the "conservative" young. Scary stuff. . . .

RINOs
"Surviving the Obamanation" got it exactly right.

I first knew that GWB wasn't a conservative when he gave his insipid "Compassionate Conservatism" speech. He later confirmed my assessment when he appointed enviro-weenie and blonde bobblehead Christie Whitman as head of the EPA. After that, he continued along the same wobbly course, which seemed to wobble left more often than right.

To be sure, he has been a far better president than Gore or Kerry would have been, but his squishy "Compassionate Conservatism" made him an easy target. Combined with the GOP's selection, for the fourth time in a row, of yet another squishy moderate candidate, and we were bound to lose.

Time to either purge the country clubbers and neocons from the GOP or to form another party for conservatives only, no wobblers allowed.

Who is Bush?
George W. Bush is whomever the media illuminati say he is, which is mostly conservative (bad, bad conservatives). His worst legacy is reflected in the Fred Barnes interview. He is still too much for big government. He has an identity crisis.

The REAL Problem
The real problem is when so-called conservatives think that government funding for pharmaceuticals (think: forced innoculations with Gardasil) and mega-food producers like ADM and Tyson et al is just peachy, but funding for welfare mothers is not. Most real conservatives say: none of the above.

Coulter and David Limbaugh criticized McCain for his position on big business socialism (hint: McCain was against it.) And so-called conservatives like George Will, who tells an upward-aspiring middle class that there's no room at the country club, and Chatty Kathy, who swoons like an 8th grader at the sight of The One? At least Coulter and Limbaugh know how to support the team, once the captain's been chosen.

Until Conservatives get back to protecting the Constitution, limiting intrusive government and cutting socialistic progams in ALL forms, we are not a party at all, but like the Dimocrats, a bunch of narrow self-interests who will throw an election if we don't all get our own way - or our own subsidies.

Tell the so-called "conservatives" to stop standing there with their hands out like homeless waifs, waiting for someone to give them something. And that includes Wall Street.

In Defense of Bush
Two of the best things President Bush did are his placement of two great Supreme Court justices. Two of the best things Clinton did are people who have names.
:::::::::::::::::::
I don't agree with everything our President has done, but I can say one thing: contrary to popular opinion and the lies of the left, he's told the truth more than any other President since Eisenhour. Reagan is high on those marks, too.
:::::::::::::::::::
But if spending more than we have is a mark of a liberal, then you'll have to call Reagan a liberal. Reagan proved government can work. Hmmm...

People's Weekly World Newspaper
Tim Wheeler helped organize local canvassing and visibility events for Barack Obama, and he chronicled his experiences on the campaign trail in a blog that appeared on the official Barack Obama campaign website.
---------------------------------------

“It’s a new day!” exclaimed Joelle Fishman, chair of the Communist Party USA’s Political Action Commission. “The profound impact of Barack Obama’s election is also reflected in the House and Senate returns.

“This election showed a strong shift in the country against the Bush administration’s corporate rightwing agenda.”

Obama and the Congress “have won a strong mandate to take our country in a new direction; to end the war in Iraq, to utilize the resources of the country for a massive program to rebuild our nation’s infrastructure creating millions of ‘green’ jobs,” Fishman said. “We now have the possibility to create a universal health care program and push through the Employee Free Choice Act to restore workers’ right to join a union. We need comprehensive immigration reform, full funding of public education and countless other human needs.”

Author: Tim Wheeler
People's Weekly World Newspaper, 11/06/08 15:46
Communist Party USA

Progressives
Bush's are progressives along with most of the Democrats. The rest go farther left. Congress where the real power is, farther left. Progressive elite. Look where America is now. Voting back and forth getting more Progressive every election.

I remember when Republicans said no war. Would not generate economy over war. War only if attacked. Limited government. Welfare was for charity, medical was charity. Costs were cheap and the job got done.

Oh, how America has changed with bigger government with those who think they know better then me. So much for freedom and true conservatism.

Jim
Good talking, Jim.

One problem that I see was exemplified in a post that I saw yesterday from a young person who said the Reaganite conservatives were mostly over 50, and that Republicans lost because they had not attracted the youth and Latino voters. This poster said Republicans needed to figure out what was important to the youth and Latino voters and come up with some "new ideas" or they would cease to be a party.

My response was we should be figuring out what is important to the survival of our country and freedom. Simply having the Republicans in power doesn’t mean anything unless you are a Republican politician. If we are going to throw conservative principles out the window just to stay in power, then what is the value of the Republican party? We might as well all become Democrats.

But back to that problem I was referring to: Young people are always looking for a way to “One-up” their elders. They want to believe that they are wiser and will fix all the things the previous generation did wrong. These young people will reject Reaganism simply because it is the value set of their parents.

My generation did the same thing. We ushered in the sexual revolution, feminism and anti-war activism. It seems funny now that my generation is being viewed as a bunch of old fuddy-duddies. But then, the same thing will happen to this generation when their own kids get to be young adults.

Life would be so much better if only each generation could embrace the wisdom of their elders instead of rejecting everything the elders have learned because of narcissistic egotism.

JazzMastaJim
About that "party for conservatives only, no wobblers allowed".

Where do I sign up?

Surviving the Obamanation

Location: TX
Reply # 6
Date: Nov 12, 2008 - 5:57 AM EST

Too bad G.W. won't burst into flames.

This country was founded with the intent that the fededral government was to be in the background; like referees in a football game.

But over time, the number of referees gradually increased to point that there are now more referees on the field than players.

The refs are getting in the way, running into players and actually tackling ball carriers they don't think should have the ball, taking handoffs for running backs who they don't think should get the ball, recovering fumbles for weak teams and fudging the score to ensure "equality for everyone" so that every team wins every game.

The result is that players are leaving in droves to join overseas leagues and spectators are no longer interested in paying thosuands of dollars to be part of the game.

~~~

Whoo-Hah! Best and funniest Post I've read in weeks!
I am shamelessly sending this to about 20 people I know.

Please post more often! You nailed it, and did it in terms everyone can understand!


The Aging Barn Rat, Ret.


Communists of Petersburg Obama Victory
Communists Of Petersburg Russia on the election of Barack Obama.
-------------------------------

"Even though Obama was supported by many left-wing forces in the U.S., including - at our request - The Communist Party of America,

Barack is clearly being controlled by the Pentagon and Wall Street. Comrade Zyuganov has correctly observed with dismay that Obama is surrounded by slithering certified Russophobes - Brzezinski and the maniacal Albright.

Therefore, Russia cannot lower its guard - we must be prepared for the continuation of the Cold War.

But there still is a chance that Barack Obama chooses a realistic policy and brings new people into his team.

The Communists and the Socialist Party USA, as well as Negro organizations, must demand that Obama appoint their representatives to key management positions!

Let's also hope that Obama is intelligent enough to reach out to Venezuela, Cuba, Syria, Korea, Zimbabwe, and Palestine."

The Secretary of the Volkhov District Committee of the Communist Party Katerina Petrova.

http://www.kplo.ru/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&i d=601&Itemid=23

Congress spends the money, but...
Congress, specifically, the House, appropriates and spends your tax dollars. Presidents merely dispense it -- or at least, that's all they're supposed to do.

And Congress either balances the budget (Gingrich) or it doesn't (O'Neill, Wright, Hastert, Pelosi). Extenuation is permitted for wartime, but Hastert seems mainly to have used that as cover.

So, Jim in VA, as much as the Left would like to tar Reagan with the spending brush, it is misapplied. And while Bush would love to drape himself in the conservative mantle, his eagerness not just to spend money but to add liabilities (Medicare drugs, NCLB) stands in marked contrast to Reagan's having ridiculed O'Neill's spending bills.

And now the keys to the Treasury are to be handed to someone whose every priority is a grave error. To the extent that the Prophet Obama and his acolytes Pelosi and Reid intend to reduce spending, it will fall entirely on our military, and during wartime no less.

Given this last, I could not in good conscience counsel a young person to join the armed services at this time.

Meanwhile, I counsel their elders to convene a Commission of Devolution to separate the states so that free people can go their own way. I live in one of the thirteen states that has not voted for a Democrat for president since 1976, and I want us out and soon, before the socialist troika have much opportunity to make it even worse.



Back to Basics
A wise man once told me, "If you want success find a person who is successful and model him/her." The GOP has two recent major success. The 1980s with Regan and 1994 lead by Newt. Instead, the GOP has embraced this new flavored Kool-Aid which REALLY does not provide a Wedge or Contrast to the American people(no unique selling proposition). If both candidates sound the same, then People will vote on FEELINGS. Obama makes people FEEL good, McCain well did not. McCain could not wedge or contrast himself enough from Obama..guess what? Bush did not in 2000!
The American people are STARVING for conservatism, but the message is being mixed up. The solution: start a ground roots movement with Conservative Principles with a simple USP or message. With the combination of Rush, Sean, Mark, Laura, et al the movement is already there WAITING to be propelled onto the national level. We have been restrained by this Blue Blood GOP leadership that really is watered down Progressive philosophy aka liberalism. That is why the news media picks these guys because they REALLY are not conservatives...thus their old favorite Republican John McCain was promoted INSTEAD of Romney or Palin. These types are a threat because the power would be lost and given BACK to the people.
Conservatism DOES work when it is tried, when promoted equally as strong as liberalism. When it is hid from the people, no one knows what it is unless it is articulated succesfully. Until then, we will think that Bush is a conservative and Obama is like the new Reagan(this is such Bull shytte). I believe that someone will rise up and fill the void, Leaders always do.

Appeal to Latinos and blacks.
Yeah, that's the ticket!

For the next 4 years there won't be any fence built on the southern border. That won't be considered as part of the "infrastructure" to be constructed.

GW and bunches of Republicans in Congress were going to accept letting US pay for immigration lawyers, waiving back taxes, and imposing teeny fines on illegals who were able to pay $$$ to smugglers and send home $billions. How could conservatives top that?

Those 1994 Republicans took away Welfare As We Knew It, and now it looks like The One is going to give it right back. It starts with the checks to those who don't pay taxes, but of course that won't be enough. It never is.

There is a Black Republican PAC, and several conservatives ran ... Deborah Honeycutt was one ... but I'm not sure any of them won. It seems to me that might be a good starting place, if it's true that even in California the black voters are 70% and Latinos 58% in favor of traditional marriage despite being caught up in the Vote for Pride or whatever.

Is there a Latino Republican organization? Do conservatives have to have a Leader, or can a rebirth actually get started from the ground up?


CHANGE WE DON'T WANT

.....OBAMBA wants to "change" the Constitution and radicalize the Courts ...we can limit some of the damage he will do to the Country to two years if we can get out the Conservative vote for the mid-term elections in 2010 ...we need to stack the Congress and Senate with enough "true" Conservatives (No more McCain RINOS) to block Obambas radical agenda and the Socialization of America ...

.....Peter Hitchens waved good-by to America and wrote that we had begun the long slow decent into the Third World ...well I'm not going without a fight ...

.....Conservatives who are looking for a place to congregate and mobilize a comeback of Conservative values should check out Michael Reagans new web site http://www.reaganaction.com ...

.....The time to take a stand against the Socialist tide is now ...the first battle will be in 2010 .....COLOSSUS

In the end ...
Bush or Kerry ... would there have been all that much of a difference for the long term?
All these guys for all the attacks appear to socialize in the same circle. They were educated by the same people. The direction they are aiming appears overall to be the same the only difference being the vehicles to take us there.
I suspect we are being snookered.

The Leftie Losers were allowed to paint
President Bush with an ugly brush, allowed to repeat nasty lies about him unchallanged, and we got what we deserved by not speaking up.

The same thing is happening to Sarah Palin at this very moment. The Left feared and hated her from the moment that she materialized and created an energy throughout the base.

The current lie about her is that she supposedly lost the campaign for John McCain. This is an enormous LIE!

Do not allow them to trash her unchallanged! There are millions of us who were not going to vote until she arrived on the scene, and I say that McCain would have lost by a larger margain until he asked her to be his campaign partner.

Never never never allow a lie from the left about one of our guys to go unchallanged. Even if you are not sure, at least say that you believe that they are terribly mistaken and demand that they produce evidence to back up their misinformation.

Judgment Day...Nov 4 2008…

First, I would like to congratulate Obama for the greatest of victories. I hope and pray that he is able to keep this country together as “One Nation under God”.

He got his moneys worth from the Democrat Party Machine, ACORN, and all the other supporters of his campaign. Lies and deception won-out this time and once the truth is known President Obama will have a lot of explaining to do and will become history’s answer to; “WHY DID AMERICA IMPLODE ON ITS SELF”.

This election maybe a “first”, Obama will be this country’s first black president, but it certainly is not ground-shaking. It only confirms what many have known for years, the white-against-black racism is a relic of our past. And is only used by the race-baiters such as Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton to extort money and favors for themselves; and to keep African-Americas dependent on the Democrats and Governments that will continue to “take from Peter and give it to Paul”, Paul will always vote for a Government that continues this policy.

Now…(I hope I am wrong)…Let the revolution begin with…”WE THE PEOPLE”, have decided that our founding fathers were wrong. Their principles, ideals and their American Dream flawed. “WE THE PEOPLE” have decided that the Socialist principles, ideals and the Marxist Dream are a much better way.

I find it unbelievable that America would elect an unknown far left Liberal/Socialist as President of these United States of America. What have we done? Do we realize that we just enabled a far left Liberal/Socialist agenda upon ourselves? Our forefathers must be turning over in their graves. Mr. “HOPE AND CHANGE” with a total lack of grit will, both at home and aboard; be tested early and often. What if he fails these tests? Then WHAT…? Can we afford his failures?

Continued:
http://nkqx57a.blogtownhall.com/

What next for the GOP?
Amid all the speculation about what the Republican Party should do to resurrect itself here's a suggestion:

Spend a little more time and energy developing policies capable of actually improving the country and a little less time and energy demonizing Democrats.

Jonah- an alpha male in the GOP!
God Bless ya. CALL OUT the weak-kneed conservative-wannabes.

No Jonah,
The elephant is you. George Bush is moot.

Until republicans realize they stood on the wrong side of the phony war on terror and the attack on Iraq they will NOT be able to understand where they went wrong.

Yes, terrorism IS a grave problem, but not worthy of world war.

And, republicans stood and continue to stand on the wrong side of LEGAL immigration. The Wall Street Journal, the US Chamber of Commerce, a very powerful Christian church, the GOP leadership, and the republican water carriers in the republican media led the way to this disaster.

Conservatives (Pat Buchanan) begged and pleaded for republicans to stop running off the cliff. They refused to listen. Although its fun to see them fall off of it, they took us with them.

Until republicans realize they deeply wounded the party with their war mongering, globalism, and immigration, they won't be able to fix things.

It might be too late: demographics.


Let Me Suggest
Whatever the "principals" are, you have to convince enough people to believe that these are the "right" principals. If you are not successful at convincing enough people that your principals are the "right" principals, then what just happened will happen. And saying you are right, doesn't do a whole lot of good if you are a minority because you cannot implement, what you think is right. Libertarians believe they have the "right" ideas about the role of government, but even if their ideas are the "right" ideas, it has no chance of ever being adopted, because they have not conivnced enough people that their ideas are the "right" ideas. Also, saying you are in favor of limited government, really does not say a whole lot, unless you define what exactly you mean by that statement and once again, your defintion is acceptable to enough people who do vote. And what is the defintion of the "limited" government that you want, exactly? As I relfect upon the role of government, to me it boils down on one simple question. Do we want government to take care of us, or do we want government to help us take care of ourselves. Because whether we like it or not, government will do something, which can really help us, or can do the opposite.

liberal mindset's daffynitions
"conservative" -- to the right of Stalin

"ultra conservative" -- to the right of Georges Danton

"far right" -- to the right of Clement Attlee

What do you say we ...
screw all this posturing and get back to a Constitutional republic? How about we dismember the nanny state and re-institute personal liberties and it's requisite companion, individual responsibility?

How about we replace our opressive and regressive inappropriately named progessive tax system with the Fair Tax? Why don't implement REAL reform by passing a Constitutional amendment that mandates a federally balanced budget instead of the open line of revolving credit that the feds have abused, especially in the last 80 years?

Why don't we force our political leaders to live up to the Monroe Doctrine and cease and desist nation building (which Bush promised when he ran in 2000)? Why don't we insist that our military only be used for it's original intent, which is in defense of American interests, instead of placing them under UN control and used for meals on wheels?

It's not the economy, stupid! It's the STOOPID politicians and their disregard for the Constitutuion. Well, that and an ignorant citizenry looking for a sugar daddy to make everything better for their lazy-a$$ lifes.

Tod Kozeluh
Lexington, KY

Theorizing and governing are different
Pure theorizing and governing are different. Bush understands, or has had intelligent advisers who understand, that strictly doctrinal conservatism--call it "real" or "genuine" or whatever--is a fantasy, and not really a basis for governing at all. Large parts of the voting public--and not just the Democratic voters--got this, but conservative ideologues do not. As a liberal, I'll be very happy if Republicans spend the next four years, or more, arguing about Bush and about the principles ore "real" conservatism, because that means they'll pay less attention to what is required for governing.

Governing, done by liberals or conservatives, always has required responsiveness to constituents. All constituents have "interests," some of which are material, others not, and they exchange their support (votes, money, approval)of those in government for benefits received. On my side of the spectrum there are also ideologues who concoct elaborate 'progressive' agendas, but they too don't really get these basic truths.

Real governing, as distinguishing from ideological navel-gazing, is about exchanging benefits for support. In general, Bush got this. I hope the conservative movement does not get it. If columns like this are any indication, they do not.

Jerry in Hawaii
Aloha! Far be it from me to correct someones spelling because I mess up all the time. In my haste, I often use there instead of the correct their or even they're. Still, I noticed you kept typing "principal" when I think you meant "principle". Nothing major, but I just thought you might like to know. As a kid, I was taught to remember that "principal" was a person because he is your "PAL", which is the last three letters in the word. I don't know if that helps, but I thougth I'd throw it out there anyway.

BTW, I've had the good fortune to visit my sister, who lives in Honolulu, twice. Even though I own my own ice shaver, two in fact, there's no better place to get a shave ice than in Hawaii. I don't know of if it's the ice, the syrup, or even the surroundings, but nothing has been able to compare to the original.

Tod Kozeluh
Lexington, KY

Amen to the frog
About Iraq, I don't completely agree. Part of me thinks that Iraq was a sort of preemptive surgery, directing the terrain and shaking up the germ called Islamic self-sacrifice in the name of their messiah.

On the other hand, it may just have been impatience. Will we ever know? Yes we will.

Their messiah, Osama so much the same as our countries new messiah, Obama, are both masters of words and people's minds.


Obama's Marxist Background
Barack Obama's clarion call is to "Sacrifice for the Common Good" - to redistribute wealth, as Obama said to 'Joe the Plumber', "letting those behind catch up".

Barack Obama's Marxist background may be meaningless as his worshipers and followers state but the certainly are troubling.

Obama was mentored in his formative teen age years, by Frank Marshall Davis an avowed Communist and member of Communist Party USA.

Obama said he chose his friends carefully "Marxist Professors".

Alice Palmer met Barack Obama during meetings at the home of Bill Ayers and hand picked Obama to fill her newly vacated 'State Senate Seat'.

Alice Palmer served as an executive board member of the U.S. Peace Council, which the FBI identified as a Communist front group.

Michael Klonsky was chosen by Barack Obama as a blogger on the 'Obama official Website'. Klonsky a former leader of 'SDS' - Students for a Democratic Society and a leader of the 'New Communist Party'.

Tim Wheeler is a National Board member of the Communist Party USA (CPUSA) and editor of its newspaper and has been a key figure in the CPUSA's Baltimore chapter since the early 1970s. He helped organize local canvassing and visibility events for Obama, and he chronicled his experiences on the campaign trail in a blog that appeared on the Obama campaign website.

Carl Davidson joined Michael Klonsky (leader of the New Communist Movement) in rejecting traditional politics for fringe Marxist movements. More recently, he helped organize the 2002 rally in which Obama first spoke out against the Iraq War and now serves as the webmaster of Progressives for Obama.


Move On To Socialism with Obama?

"Our sense of power is more vivid when we break a man's spirit than when we win his heart."
Eric Hoffer
------------------------------------

Obamunism Coming to America? Obama will break the spirit of the American worker.

Why work hard and produce when one is punished for it?

Do NOT work hard and produce little and one is rewarded for it.

What is wrong with Obamunism can be summed up in one word 'Initiative'.

When 'Initiative' is lost humans become depressed and quit trying, because there is no reward other than a theoretical 'Sacrifice for the Common Good'.

Like it or not the world revolves around the concept of 'What is in it for me'.

Barack Obama's system brings him power and 'goodies' to his minions and depression of the soul and defeat to the producers.

Make them EXTINCT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
RINOs SHOULD be at least an endangered species along their misbegotten half-brethren the "moderate Republican" and the "social libera but fiscal conservative"! That last one is a pip! HOW can you be a fiscal conservative AND support the Nanny State needed to produce the socially libtarded society you want? I've NEVER heard the answer to that one.

-Ray
NRA Life Member
Soli Deo Gloria!!

Good column
Bush was a mixed bag when it comes to conservatism. I liked his supreme court appointments. I want to privatize social security. I thought the prescription drug benefit simply more socialism to buy votes. Ditto for the immigration plan and other things. As a libertarian republican, I probably fall into your Limbaugh faction.

When it comes to all the feel good socialist programs and spreading the wealth, I could tolerate it all at the state level if we truly had a limited constitutional federal government and adhered to the tenth amendment. It is far too late to ever return there, however. At this point, I just want to limit its growth and control as much as possible and hope for the day when we can start rolling all these programs back to the states where they belong.

Gestelle and the quid pro quo vote!
Gestelle wrote:
"All constituents have "interests," some of which are material, others not, and they exchange their support (votes, money, approval)of those in government for benefits received."

This reminds me of the story where a man offers a woman one million dollars to sleep with him, to which she replied, "Yes." He then asks if she will sleep with him for $100. She replies, "NO! What kind of woman do you think I am?" The man replies, "We've already determined what kind of woman you are, now we're just haggling over the price."

Thanks, Gestelle, for revealing what kind of woman you are. BTW, how much did you get for that last vote?

Tod Kozeluh
Lexington, KY

Bush has been a great President
A president is responsible for many things. Some he does well, other's not so much. I give big kudo's for "W" on his leadership and his strength after 9/11 and which he CONTINUES to provide. He has true compassion for our troops and the sacrifice of both them and their families. I also believe he has been a good friend to the Pro-life cause. I have not been too pleased with the spending nor the immigration issues. I for one will miss him and Laura. A very classy and honorable couple that has led our country well.

Yeah, Historian
you touch on something I've been thinking about:
I'll be fixed on this administration to see if thay have learned anything from the past 3 democrats that lost majorities after 2 years. The "blue-print" for a demo-elect could not be any clearer. What NOT to do has been spelled out. Now,IF congress "do" themselves in, BO just might come out un-touched! Notice that he, in style, is fitting himself with teflon, body-part by body-part. When the MSM tells us that "the voters" have HIGH expectations??? No way! High hopes at best. The apologies ,already gift-wrapped, for Barack are shameless. This guy is a two-termer, no question about it--his first 4 years will be free.

Is Bush a Conservative?
Of course not. He has some conservative impulses, but he has never been a philosophically consistent conservative. To be fair, he never has claimed to be. When he was running for his first term, I remember telling several people, based on what he had done in Texas and what he said he wanted to do as president, then-Gov. Bush would increase the federal government's unConstitutional entanglement in primary and secondary education, would probably expand the federal governments intrusion into our lives in other ways and would try to normalize the status of illegal immigrants, the last based largely on his obvious soft spot for hispanic illegals, but I thought there was a good chance he would appoint a couple or a few Constitutionalist Supreme Court justices and a lot more Circuit and District Court judges. That alone was enough reason to consider him the best available option, especially when the only other practically available option was Al Gore.

Bush has performed pretty much as advertised and as I expected in these areas and, as a bonus, he has been a strong war time president.

APPROVAL RATING
barry, the news reports, has a 74% approval rating--approval for?
raising over 700 million dollars to spend 2 years campaigning?
being married to someone who thinks America is a mean Country?
mentored by a communist?
pastored by someone who GDs America?
worked with someone who terrorized and tried to kill American citizens and bomb our government buildings, wishing he could have done more?
was a lawyer and instructor for Acorn?
stated the Supreme Court didn't go far enough with Cival Rights compensation?
stated he'll bankrupt the coal industry?
had an American citizen investigated and smeared for asking a question?
went to the gym instead of Church services the Sunday after the election?
74% approval rating based on the above?
Then one would expect he'll hit 100% when:
he decimates our Military
raises taxes on the rich (anyone making more than the minimum wage)
dictates our health care--when, what, where and by whom
censors all media
legalizes illegals
mandates civilian services
rewrites our Constitution
rewrites our Pledge
redesigns our Flag
makes abortion free and available on every street corner
and
bans our guns



Bush? Conservative?
The topic is moot, except for historians.
Worrying about Bush is like worrying over the pothole that you just ran over, when the sign says that the bridge is out!
The real issues are where do we go from here, how do we get there, and who is going to lead us?
ATTENTION REPUBLICANS!
We need to FOCUS like a laser beam on the central issue of unity!
Will we once again unite, Libertarians, Social Conservatives, Fiscal conservatives, and even Moderates under Reagan's banner of smaller government, peace through strength, and faith & family.
We have spent more time and energy fighting among ourselves than we have going after the opposition, Liberal Democrats.
We have far more in common with one another than we have differences. Let's reagan (regain) our perspective!
America still supports these 3 core principles.
Please take a deeeeeep breath and begin working together to reclaim our country from the socialists!
Either we all pull together to lift ourselves up, or we will surely all fall together under the foot of the jack-booted thugs as they enslave us with government benefits (oxymoron).
Put the past behind us and focus on our future together!

reply to Frog
YOur tired insult contributes no argument against my points. I didn't make the political world; it is what it is. Governments--all governments, any government--operate in the way I described. If conservatives--or liberals--want to govern, as opposed to just navel-gazing and convincing themselves of their moral purity--they do what I described. This fact, by the way, is why conservatives are wrong in assuming that Obama will simply do what the most extreme imaginable liberals might want him to do. His voting constituency and the various sectors that contributed to his victory are not simply on the far left. If they were, he would not have been able to win. So, even though you conservatives will loathe what he does do, what he won't do is to turn the US into some sort of Stalinist horror--he can't do this, any more than a Bush 41 or 42 could really implement the full far right agenda. So, when conservatives govern, if they understand what they're doing, they won't be able to do things like eliminate Social Security or Medicare, or simply eliminate the EPA, any more than liberals, when they govern, will really be able to destroy American capitalism.

You strike me as a typical ideologue--and I know many on the opposite side who are just as ideologically pure--and thus someone who will never really understand what governing is about. I hope that most conservatives are like you, because that means that we liberals who do get it will keep right on winning. So, I say, bring on your ideological litmus tests, bring on your dogmatic adherence to pure principles, bring on your hair-splitting internal dissension. In the end, you'll lose. And the funny thing is--you will just blame the world and not look within to figure out what you might have to learn.

FISHY RIGHT ON THAT SUMS IT UP DITTO!
WE NEED TO PRAY FOR THE USA!AND STAND FOR THE CONSERVATIVES!LIKE OUR FREEDOM OF SPEECH,OUR GUN RIGHTS PROTECTION OF THE UN BORN,RESPECT FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!STAND WITH BASIC FAMILY VALUES!AND STAND AGANST THE DUDES THAT WANT GAY MARRIAGE SO BAD THAT THEY BEAT UP GRAND MA IN CALIFORNIA SHE WAS HOLDING UP A PROP8 BANNER RIGHT ON GRAND MA!THE LIBERALS ARE SICK!LEAVE GRAND MA ALONE!

Amen, Diamond.
Prayer for our country and its American ideals is the only thing that is going to preserve them. Obama and his leftist illuminati practices will do nothing but tear our American fabric apart.

There's No Debate
Bush was not conservative. He was incompetent. He fouled up everything he touched.

The majority of Americans do not know the difference between a conservative and a liberal. They can't even spell those words. They don't know any of the candidates or which party they belong to.

They don't know the three branches of government, how many states are in the union and can't find their own country on a map.

But they do know that the GOP has totally failed everything they've done.

This is why Obama won, plus the fact that the media became part of the Obama campaign. It's amazing McCain got one electoral vote.

Dark Matter #28
Or perhaps that should be Dim Matter....
There are several thousand dead people who would love to debate you on whether terrorism is worth a world war.
Secondly, the real Republicans (not Bush, McCain or any of their ilk) oppose ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION, not legal immigration. Being a melting pot is one of the things that made this country great. Something that all true conservatives recognize.
What exactly is the "wrong side" of the Wall Street Journal, the US Chamber of Commerce, or the Christian church?
Exactly who are the "republican media?????" Have I been paying attention to the wrong media? The only TV media that will even give the Republicans a fair shake is Fox. Yes there are a few newspapers and magazines that are conservative in nature, but just a few. Could you mean talk radio? This is the only outlet that is truly conservative. The only way that the Republicans were on the wrong side of this is to not follow the conservative ideas presented therein.
I do thank you for the opinion but please do refrain from giving us advise. A conservative following liberal advise would be akin to the police taking advise from criminals. How likely are criminals to give police advise that would make it easier for the police to catch the crooks?

Jeffrey
As a rule, I don't debate dead people.

An Epiphany
Just realized a one sentence summation of what is happening to the U.S. Here it is:

“We’re turning into Great Britain.”

Consider this:

1.Britain’s media including both TV and print publications are overwhelmingly self-admitted to be liberal much like the U.S., except the media hasn’t been honest enough here to ‘fess up.
2.The dominant party, Labor, is controlled by unions just like the U.S. Democrat Party and this control is likely to be strengthened if President Obama follows up on his promises to labor unions.
3.Britain is concerned about the Muslims assuming power in their country while in the U.S. a former Muslim has already been elected president!
4.The only question is which country will fade faster into the sunset, Great Britain or the U.S. My money is on the U.S. We always were more agile than our stodgy British cousins.

An Epiphany--2
5. I forgot to mention one other key similarity. Britain already has a national healthcare system that is incompetent, inefficient, and very expensive. That's what President-elect Obama has promised us.

Finally!!!
I've, or we, as in NOT the "bush lied/died" crowd have been wanting to have a mature discussion about the legitimate criticisms of the Bush Presidency for a long time. Unfortunately, it was impossible, for if you suggest such a thing the anti-war whackos come in and take it as a mandate to the hate-Bush rhetoric of the past six, seven, almost eight years. I'd rather say nothing at all than to hand those folks more fodder.

Excellent as usual Jonah, there are plenty of us anxious to discuss this very topic.

Take Responsibility
I believe we gave a pass to Mr. Bush for far too long. That's why he kept feeling he had a "mandate" to keep pushing his agenda and listened to no one. No one ever let him know in clear and precise ways he was being tolerated because the alternatives were so bad. As much as many of our problems stem from his liberal policies, we must take the blame ourselves for trying to support the unsupportable.

Everyone is running around like Chicken Little screaming about the how the Conservative Sky is falling when it has been vindicated for all the world to see. Conservatives refused to support another "Compassionate Conservative" pure and simple. Been there, done that and what did it get us? At it's most fundamental, Reaganism is about reducing taxes while reducing government at all levels. Bush tried to do one without the other and left a mess for all of the rest of us to clean up no matter who is in office.

I understand so many wanting to defend Bush while he was under such vicious attack by others. What Bush never understood was it was not an agreement on principles with him, it was supporting him in a time of crisis. He never did get it and still doesn't. His arrogance will not allow him to see it any other way. We failed because we did not make it clear enough we support you, not your policies and unless you wake up, you're on your own.

What's wrong with Conservatives? Grow a pair, look in the mirror and move forward.

face the facts
We lost because we threw away the Latino vote, and until we get it back we will continue to lose. Losing had nothing to do with Bush and everything to do with the ugly racist screeds spewed by the right over immigration reform. We can't win without Latinos, you stupid RR wing nuts!

Define Conservatism
I never felt Bush equaled Conservatism, in fact, I think he is far from it.

But Conservatism vs. Liberalism is sort of dead now because the issues have taken over. Not all Republicans are conservatives, nor all Democrats liberals.

Call yourself a chicken, but if you taste like roast beef, who are you kidding.

Bush was a BIG spender, and has mortgaged out this country's future. He left our southern border wide open, and when Mexican Presidente Fox wanted the border dissolved, Bush never told him to take a hike. He went and met with him, and you can just bet agreements happened.

To me, Conservatism means

Smaller Federal government
Stronger State government
Use of military force only when needed
Fiscal responsibility
Lower Taxes (for everyone)
Protecting our borders and our economic interests.

Now, you tell me...just HOW did Bush meet any of those criteria?


Neoconservatives.
Oh, and I forgot to mention...

Neocons.

They hijacked the Republican Party.

Now, try to define the Republican Party as conservative. Dare ya.

yeah - blame bush
think maybe if we had implemented his immigration reform that we might have had an honest election - that maybe a few bad guys would have been apprehended?

rivera gets on my nerves - but he is right - the campaign against Hispanics did kill this for us = prolife hispanics voted for survival

don't point out mccain's affinity for liberal immigration reform bush was just as liberal - that didn't help them did it?

what a victory

Great column, lingering questions...
When John McCain introduced legislation to oversee and regulate Fanny and Freddie, would that not have been an expansion of government?

What were the reactions of our favorite conservative talk-show hosts to this expansion of gov't and increased regulation at the time?

Is there not a parrallel here with No Child Left Behind: now that we have gov't behemoths as far as the eye can see (and "crap sandwiches" in Jonah Goldburg's words), is not any attempt at accountability and oversight an increase in the size and workload of gov't?

It may be a silly question. But it has been bothering me for a while and goes to the question of reform.

Paleo Future
The real answer is to dump neo-cons like Jonah Goldberg and listen to the paleo-cons.

Read online:

Chronicles
Taki's Magazine
American Conservative
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