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Wednesday, October 15, 2008
Jonah Goldberg :: Townhall.com Columnist
Obama is Getting Off Easy
by Jonah Goldberg
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The Democratic nominee scorned the "prejudice and bigotry and hatred and division" on display in the Arizona senator's campaign. As for his own platform, he said that "we will do all these things because we love people instead of hate them. ... Beware of those who fear and doubt and those who rave and rant about the dangers of progress."

This wasn't last week, but 44 years ago. The Republican from Arizona - demonized by the Democratic and journalistic establishment - was Sen. Barry Goldwater. The Democrat, of course, was LBJ.

There are differences between then and now, to be sure. For starters, there was still a great deal of work left to be done on civil rights in 1964 (and John McCain is no libertarian). But even then, the attempt to paint Goldwater as a hatemonger was idiotic and dishonorable. It was almost as dishonorable as Harry Truman's attempt 16 years earlier to cast his opponent, businessman Thomas Dewey, as an American Hitler.

Liberal Democrats have a long tradition of tarring opponents as the monolithic forces of hatred and prejudice while casting themselves as the enlightened proponents of peace, love and decency. And this election shows that tradition is alive and well.

Over the weekend, Rep. John Lewis of Georgia, a civil rights hero, sold off another chunk of his reputation by coughing up some absurd partisan talking point about how the McCain-Palin campaign reminds him of that of Dixiecrat segregationist George Wallace. And over the last week, a host of reporters - not just liberal pundits - ominously fretted that the McCain campaign's use of former domestic terrorist Bill Ayers as an issue is a racist ploy. The Washington Post's Anne Kornblut, for instance, wrote that Sarah Palin's comment that Barack Obama was "palling around with terrorists" is "a turn of phrase that critics said was racially loaded."

The most laughable evidence that McCain is sowing hatred stems from the shouts of "terrorist!" and "kill him!" from a few hothead buffoons at McCain rallies. Of course, rather than foment this sort of thing, McCain went out of his way to chastise his own supporters personally and publicly.

McCain has done nothing to fuel racism. Or, put another way, the McCain campaign has done as much to promote prejudice as the Obama campaign has to inflame the vile passions behind the "Abort Sarah Palin" bumper sticker, Madonna's stage video lumping McCain in with Hitler, the eugenic snobbery aimed at Palin's son with Down syndrome, or the column in the Philadelphia Daily News that predicted a "race war" if McCain wins.

Wait a second, shout Obama supporters. What about attempts to paint Obama as "the other," as "different"? Peter Beinart writes in Time that the Republican campaign is trying to cast Obama as not "American enough." Obama is cosmopolitan and represents a changing world. To cast that in a negative light, insists Beinart (a friend and frequent debate opponent), amounts to "shocking" racism.

Beinart recounts how Palin said at one rally, "I am just so fearful that this is not a man who sees America the way that you and I see America." Beinart makes it sound as if she said this through a Klan hood. Please. Every single presidential campaign boils down to an argument about how the candidates "see America." Suddenly that question is out of bounds because Obama is black?

According to the liberal history books, in 1988 the GOP cast Michael Dukakis as too elitist, cosmopolitan and not American enough. In 1992, it ran a similar attack against Bill Clinton - remember the hullabaloo about draft dodging and that trip to Russia? In 2000, ditto with Al Gore, though the emphasis was less on foreignness and more on extraterrestrialness. And in 2004, there was John Kerry's "global test" for U.S. national security. Lack of originality notwithstanding, why is it suddenly racist to treat Obama just like the four white guys who preceded him? Talk about racial double standards.

Obama holds mega-campaign rallies in Berlin, touts his global appeal and says a top foreign policy goal is to get other countries to like us. But it's racist to call him cosmopolitan?

He has nontrivial ties to an unrepentant (and white) former leader of the Weather Underground, a radical leftist organization that sought to kill American soldiers, policemen and politicians. But it's "racist" to bring that up? (If anything, by not attacking Obama's ties to the Rev. Jeremiah Wright and other politically unsavory nonwhite associates, McCain is self-censoring for fear of seeming racist.)

If Obama were a white Democratic nominee named Barry O'Malley, the GOP would be going after him twice as hard. But liberal Democrats would still caterwaul about fomenting hatred and racism, because that's what they always do.

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Jonah Goldberg is editor-at-large of National Review Online.
 
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My take
"It was almost as dishonorable as Harry Truman's attempt 16 years earlier to cast his opponent, businessman Thomas Dewey, as an American Hitler."

Is that something like being called a terrorist,
a Muslim, a Communist, (and for those who think
socialist is a dirty word), a Socialist.

Just asking

Socialism IS a dirty word - it's not in
the U. S. Constitution. Read it, Steven.

YOUTUBE____Presenting; OBAMA the L I A R
*
Obama and A C O R N in person ploting Nov 4Th and worse; Nov5th! Something everyone should view before election day !
Obama is a Liar and a Theif; in his own Words.
And where is CNN,NBC,ABC,CBS etc,etc, busy electing him!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PG29uP3mvUc

http://www.roadsassy.com/2008/10/11/caught-on-tapeobama-pro mising-acorn-that-
they-will-help-shape-his-policies-in-the-white-house/

Steven
Your obvious comfort with the words terrorist, Muslim, Communist and Socialist are telling. Frankly, we are unimpressed with your beliefs and those of your love interest Obama. We do appreciate your coming clean though!

Socialist Eco Communism
This is a govenment that creates people demanding entitlements by restricting its society with so many regulations against the national productivity that only that govenment will have control of the opportunities.
Control over a society-determines who pays taxes, who gets the free education, who gets free housing, who gets health care, who determines a pre-vital fetus, who runs the military, you know: Russia X100.

As always
an article with content, backed up with facts. There will be, I predict, posters who ignore both in their reply.

The Real Obama
Obama, like Osama, indeed had a pal who bombed the Pentagon. It's not racist to point out this fact. Some of us would prefer not have a European-style, soft-on-terror socialist as Pres., forgive us.

Sociocrats of the word unite...
...for our savior the chosen one,
the Fresh Prince of Hyde Park, the King of the US of KKK, the Angel of ACORN, his loftiness and highmightiest Barack Hubert Obama will deliver us to the promised land. Let us bow in praise and avert our eyes as he shuffles past us in his pimped out motorcade of Escalades. Join me in singing and holding hands around the Kool-Aid vat. You put your right foot in...wait..wait...wait a minute..ah...um..uhhhhhh..uh..Imean...you put your LEFT foot in and you....blah..blah... blah...

Steven
'Is that something like being called a terrorist, a Muslim, a Communist, (and for those who think socialist is a dirty word), a Socialist.'

Why not add Marxist. If the shoe fits, shouldn't Obama bin Biden proudly wear it.

THE MSM - AWOL AS USUAL
BO has been in partnerships with Ayers, Raila Odinga, Rezko, the Marxist Chicago Democratic Socialists (The New Party), Rev Wright, Acorn and Farrakhan among many, many others by cutting checks for Ayer's projects while Chairman of the Annenberg Project, joining the New Party, supporting Black Liberation Theology with money, campaigning in Kenya, giving advice and legal representation to Acorn, and employing influential Nation of Islam adherents on his Illinois Senate staff.

He has been in partnerships with terrorists, convicted felons, Marxists, and racists his entire career but had no idea of their ideologies?

The above constitutes his "executive experience." As a junior Senator in Illinois and DC he has been a "benchwarmer," just like all junior Senators.

Is the MSM so in love with the potential story of the 1st black president that they will continue to ignore the facts? We all know the answer.

Obama is wrong for America
Are we really known by the company we keep? Barack Hussein Obama has been in the company of some very radical and corrupt persons.. You know the list, it seems to grow ever larger.
One example we must fear is that of Hugo Chavez, elected president of a democracy-Venezuela.
With a majority of his party in congress, he was able to change the constitution, replace judges and make himself dictator-maybe for life- of a former democracy.
Couldn't happen in America? Couldn't happen in any democracy? Hugo did it.
I worry about the replacement of Federal Judges, Supreme Court Justices, do we want more of the Ninth District (SF) type of courts?
I truly worry about the "enemy within" that will destroy this nation. McCain is wrong, we DO need to worry about an Obama presidency.

It would be one thing...
if the media had given the public a clear picture of Obama and people voted him in anyway. It's quite another for the media to be wetting their pants doing their best to hide Barack (Snip) Obama's alliances and lack of accomplishments and install this stealth Marxist. If he wins, be prepared for gloating and taunting from the Left beyond anything you've ever experienced, as well as hearing ad nauseam from blacks breathlessly saying how they "...never thought they'd see this in their lifetime".

1. Where is Obama's proof of citizenship?
2. Where are Obama's school records? (We know where John McCain graduated -- how about the "urbane, cosmopolitan" Democrat nominee?
3. Where are records concerning Obama's editorship of the Harvard Law Review?
4. Where is a MSM exposee about Obama's relationships with Ayres, Wright, Rezko?
5. Why no questions at the "debates" thus far about immigration or abortion?

There was a time not too long ago when I was convinced that McCain was going to win in a landslide. Now I'm afraid it will be very close, and it's going to be very ugly no matter how it turns out. Much of this ugliness could have been averted with balanced, honest, in-depth coverage of the candidates, rather than the boot-licking of Obama that even SNL parodied. People will accept a loss if the loss comes fair and square (witness the lack of rioting at professional sports games when one team loses in a heartbreaker but no one questions the refs' decisions), but a lack of fairness and distorting of the system by those in power does nothing but plant the seeds of a boiling anger that is likely to surface in time. Either that, or a dropping out of society in total apathy (e.g., leaving the country).

I don't know about Muslim or Terrorist
I don't know if Obama is a Muslim or terrorist. The news media has failed to investigate and ask questions.

I do know Obama is a Socialist and that is a bad word if you one who believes the human is further advanced when people are free to florish and grow into whatever they are capable of becoming.

Historically,

Living under a King or Queen will result in 95% of the population living in poverty with just 5% living the good life.

Living under socialism typically results in 20% of the population living in poverty with 20% living very well and the rest somewhere in the middle.

Under true Capitalism we typically will see only 5% living in poverty with a gradual upward scale to the top 5% who are doing very well.

Let the voter beware.

Palin


The Alaska Daily News

Sarah Palin’s reaction to the Legislature’s Troopergate report is an embarrassment to Alaskans and the nation.
She claims the report “vindicates” her. She said that the investigation found “no unlawful or unethical activity on my part.”

Her response is either astoundingly ignorant or downright Orwellian.

Page 8, Finding Number One of the report says: “I find that Governor Sarah Palin abused her power by violating Alaska Statute 39.52.110(a) of the Alaska Executive Branch Ethics Act.”

In plain English, she did something “unlawful.” She broke the state ethics law.

Taft
So.........when do liberal Democrats like you care a whit about "ethics"?

Your party wrote the book on unethical behavior, and I think I can speak for most if not all of us on TH when I say - how dare you come on here and try to lecture us about "ethics" when your party leadership doesn't even know the meaning of the word.

You, sir, are the embarassment.

Steven
"But even then, the attempt to paint Goldwater as a hatemonger was idiotic and dishonorable. It was almost as dishonorable as Harry Truman's attempt 16 years earlier to cast his opponent, businessman Thomas Dewey, as an American Hitler"

Both LBJ and HST won the election. Seems like winning politics except in Hussein's case it's much closer to the truth. History repeats.

Wright the Racist.
I suppose it's racist for Republicans to say anything at all.

In fact I think I just quoted Rev. Wright. The Racist.

The funny thing is I think Rev. Wright actually killed the race card. Many eyes were opened after hearing his preaching. I no longer believe in one-sided racism.

True Christians do not go to church learn to hate and to practice hating their fellow man.

My question is am I welcome to come into all Christian churches no matter my race?

I expect that THe IRS applies tax laws equally at all churches. Not just at mostly white and conservative churches.

Taft
So you are declaring support for tazer happy police officers tazering their own children and incompetant wife beating administrators? Is this your point? Is this some sort of club?

"Taft" is...
.
...a TROLL.

Please do not feed the trolls.

Taft
I'll conisder that maybe Palin abused her power, as a democrat has declared with a large document when a couple of pages should've sufficed (an investigation that wouldn't have mattered if she weren't a VP candidate). Considering the evidence, I think I might've done the same (you did read all the evidence before developing an opinion?). Now, will you concede that Obama hung around with an American terrorist and attended an anti-American church?

IF OBAMA IS ELECTED?
QUESTIONS TO ASK:
1) Will we have security in this country as we have had for the past 7 years. The Muslim radicals are still out there, wainting for an oportunity.
2)Will Isarel still have an alliance with
the USA?
3)Will Iran come to believe we are soft?
4) Will our American soldiers come home from Iraq with a sense of pride of a job well done or the feelings of another defeat?
5) Will the increase of taxes really stimulate the economy or push us to a higher unemployment rate?
6)Will one-half of the American population come to feel they are working to support the other one-half?
7) Will billions of the taxpayers money go the South Africa countries like Kenya without the taxpayers having a decision or voice in Washington?
8) What part will the radical associates of Obama past play in his Administration?
9) Will Michelle Obama represent her country with pride, honor and patriotism AND SHOW IT?
10) Will both of the Obamas care about the needs of all of the citizens of America or just the few?
11) Will you as an American feel a sense of pride when "Hail to the Chief" is played when Barack Hussein Obama walks into a room"

so true
And of course we all remember how George W Bush's campaign offices were handing out flyers claiming that Kerry was an Arab. Oh wait that's right we don't. I wonder why that is. And I can't remember anyone stressing Kerry's middle name. That is odd, doesn't one show ones opponent is an elitist by using their middle name? I must be confusing that with something else.

It is funny to think that John Lewis has disgraced his reputation. I remember just a few months ago McCain names Lewis as someone he had so much respect for that he would go to him for advice, despite the fact that they have both been in Washington for a long time and he never has actually bothered to do that.

At the point that Wallace-like comments were coming from the audience with the regularity that the press was commenting on it to a degree that the candidate had to publicly disown it (well the top of the ticket, the bottom of the ticket seems to continue to encourage it) the Lewis comment is not as outrageous as all that.

McCain should not have to see that cries of "treason" and "terrorism" are not polling well for him to discover he is offended by it.

The Dems know...
...that obama is worshiped by non-thinking and obedient sheep that will swallow anything they say. To them, double standards are allowed when their messiah is taken to task for his beliefs in failed policies and corrupt friends.

Look at the video posted below and be enlightened.

http://www.breitbart.tv/?p=194983

After listening to it, ask again if obama's campaign isn't about race.

Steven
Ya call'em as ya see'em.

Obama is a socialist on his way to Marxism. He also just happens to be a man of no substance. Please spare me a litany of all of his achievements because, agaoratory "charm" and being black.

THE POWER OF DOMINANCE
over the SUBSERVIENCE of the POWERLESS. This has always been and is the democratic platform.
POWER is the PREDATOR and the POWERLESS, the PREY.
Do the American people have a 'choice'? YES, between 'POWER of the PEOPLE' (the Dominance of our Country coming 'FIRST') or the predatory 'POWER of the GOVERNMENT'(over the Governments prey, the POWERLESS SUBSERVIENT American people).

racism
Of course these are subtle racist and xenophobic attacks and everybody here knows it.

Obama didn't pal around with terrorists, he was in the guy's home once for a political meeting and served with the guy on a charitable board that was founded by a friend of Ronald Reagan. Annenberg was also appointed by Nixon to be ambassador to the United Kingdom also. Do you people think Reagand and Nixon were muslim terrorists too?

Yeah, Obama went to a meeting where ACORN was present but I don't see anyone on here posting the video of the meeting that John McCain attended that was also sponsored by ACORN. Why is that?

Oh, and let's not forget that lawsuit you keep mentioning, Obama's co-counsel was the Justice Department. I am sure they had a big stake in promoting voter fraud.

Sorry about my word jumble...

Subject: Steven
Ya call'em as ya see'em.

Obama is a socialist on his way to Marxism. He also just happens to be a man of no substance. Please spare me a litany of all of his achievements because, his oratory "charm" and being black.

Subject: Sorry about my word jumble...

Subject: Steven : Once more with feeling!
Ya call'em as ya see'em.

Obama is a socialist on his way to Marxism. He also just happens to be a man of no substance. Please spare me a litany of all of his achievements because all he has is his oratory "charm" and being black.

Sandra
Yes, there is a racist component to this election. I suspect that's why people are holding back. I submit that you're so afraid of being labled a racist that you can't even admit to yourself that a guy with some of the shadiest, most anti-American characters I've ever seen associated with a presidential candidate shouldn't be scrutinized. I suspect you think socialism is a good idea. I invite you to really study the history of the Soviet Union and other communsit countries. John from California thinks he's going to have a seat in power for espousing socialism. He doesn't know that he'll be among the first to be lined up against a wall and shot.

Race card- bottom line
If 92% of whites voted for McCain, where would that leave Obama?


He is where he is because of white votes. Otherwise he'd be where Jessie Jackson is.

So he should STFU.

Socialism
The United States accounts for 25% of the world's GDP, yet only comprises 4.5% of the world's population. Was it Socialism that did that for us?

Why is it so hard for the Marxists of the world to see that economic freedom has done more to help the poor of the world than any of the various brands of Marxism?

WorldWithoutSocialism
You might want to google David Ifshin and his relationship with John McCain. While you are at it google William Timmons along with Samir Vincent and Tongsun Park to see what their relationship is to John McCain and Sadam Hussein.

If socialism means taking some of the tremendous wealth away from the top 1% of the richest Americans to help the remainder get health care, an education and a living wage than yes I guess I am a socialist.

By the way I noticed that you didn't bother to mention the whole Annenberg connection to the Reagan and Nixon or the ACORN connection to McCain and the Justice Department. Doing a little cherry picking??

AIP
Oh and WWS: you might want to consider the Palins association with the Alaskan Independence Party of which Todd was a member as recently as 2000 and that Sarah addressed in 2008 while she was Governor. The AIP was founded by a guy who hated America and wanted Alaska to secede from the Union. Yeah, those two are true Americans.

Sandra
Cherry picking, maybe. I like to think of it as prioritizing. How about you? So you've got class envy (1% of the richest Americans). How much of their money do you think the country will need to fund all of the programs that Obama is touting? What's he going to do if that's not enough? You've got this idea that money just happens to be there and it was everyones to begin with then a small group of people took it from you, right? You'd be wealthy if it wasn't for them, right? When government takes over the economy, as it's doing now, it also takes away your freedom to succeed or fail. Do you really want government to do for you what you are perfectly capable of doing for yourself? Do you honestly believe that government is capable of ending your suffering?

Sandra
You ARE a teat-sucking, parasitic SOCIALIST, the very type willing to turn this country over to a totalitarian socialist regime so you can sip lattes' paid for by succesful working people. You and your "victim" ilk are at the heart of this country's social and economic problems. How about getting off your lazy a** and fending for yourself? Wait!! I know why; it's because you're an incompetent human being, arrested in adolescence and incapable of performing as an adult.


Reba...
You ask, among other things, if Obama is elected, will Iran view the U.S. as soft.

This week Ahmandinejad announced that Iran will not meet with the U.S, unless the U.S. meets HIS preconditions!

Does that answer your question?

Selah...

GW

Sandra
"If socialism means taking some of the tremendous wealth away from the top 1% of the richest Americans to help the remainder get health care, an education and a living wage than yes I guess I am a socialist."

Two thoughts:

1) At least you can admit it. Obama won't. I still think it's immoral to use votes to take money from one group to use for benevolent means. Here I stand with James Madison, when he said, "I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on the objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents."

2) If taking money from the top 1% were the extent of socialism in America, there wouldn't be much expression of fear. Unfortunately, Socialism in the U.S. is an ever growing cancer which unchecked will consign us to the mediocrities of history.

Smaller Government
There've been times I've wanted to secede from the union, but it wasn't because government wasn't taking care of me. It was because government was getting larger. Do you think bombing the pentagon for the purpose of promoting Marxism is a more noble endeavor?

Oh, Sandra

"taking some of the tremendous wealth away from the top 1% of the richest Americans."

So you're telling me the 40% of all Federal individual income taxes that top 1% already pays isn't enough? Yep, you're a socialist.

By the way, I think Walt Annenberg might be a bit bewildered by what the foundation in his name is up to these days. And Obama was a lawyer for Acorn, and provided them with money and training. Enough of a link for you? And your attempt to ignore the facts of Obama's relationship to Bill Ayers sounds like cherry-picking to me.

OBAMA THE RADICAL DUDE!
ALL THE LIBERALS LOVE HIM,KATIE COURIC LOVES HIM,THE UN-AMERICANS LOVE HIM CASTRO LOVES HIM,SYRIA,AND IRAN LIKE HIM,GEORGE SOROS LOVES HIM,GEORGE CLOONEY LOVES HIM,BON NOT SO JOVIE LOVES HIM,BUT ALL OF US CONSERVATIVES,KNOW B.HUSSEIN IS NOT GOOD FOR AMERICA!

Republicans-The Party of Racists
The reason Obama is loved around the world is because everyone else in the world can see America for what it really is. We have become a nation of "do-nothings." We don't invent anything anymore except for creative debt instruments, they see us for our outright racism and never has it been more evident in recent history than the current election. The world knows our RECENT history of racism, lynchings, Jim Crow, assasinations, beatings, humiliation, incarceration and they laugh at our many contraditions. The world sees Obama as a sign that MAYBE America is starting to catch up with the rest of the world in regards to ethics and race issues and is ready to live up to it's promise. They want us to live up to our promise: The land of the free and the home of the brave. On paper (The Constitution, the Declaration of Independence) The United States is the GREATEST nation on the planet; on paper.

The world is watching, America. Will you do the right thing?

Obama '08

Carl

Do you understand that people like you sling the word "racist" around for any reason or no reason so often that it has leached of meaning, has ceased to be a useful term in discussions, and that normally thoughtful people begin to tune it out? Does it matter to you that people who use the term to end an argument they're losing are the present-day equivalent of the Boy who Cried Wolf?

Now, do you have anything specific to support your claim that Republicans are the party of racists, other than the majority won't be voting for Obama, or are you just going to throw it out there like excrement against a wall?

Racism

Do you know what I see when I see a black man? I see a man.

No more, no less. A man with good traits and bad, a man with triumphs and failures, a man made by God in His image, and as such, of infinite value, worth and potential. Same as I see any other man. And I treat that man with the respect due any human, the respect I want for myself.

But to you, I'm a racist.

Words are cheap. The Democrat party mostly sees a black man as a helpless victim, a member of a disadvantaged minority group, a member of a voting bloc, someone to be pandered to, patronized and taken for granted. And I am sick to death of being smeared as racist because I am a Republican, by people of that party. Carl, go crawl back under your rock.

Racist wolf-crying
The more the Obamatrons play the race card, the more I want to vote for McCain.

I will continue to pray that enough of my fellow Americans feel the same way.

I look forward to the day when I can vote for someone like Michael Steele, Ken Blackwell, or Bobby Jindal for president. This would reveal the ignorance of the "Republicans are racist" mantra all but the most committed leftists and race-baiters in this country.

Jim

Carl from CA
What freekin' world do you live in? God you're an idiot. And morons like you have the audacity to say W and Sarah Palin are stupid.

There's no racism in other countries. The rest of the world is so much more enlightened than the US when it comes to, as you called it, "ethics and race issues."

Ha, Ha, Ha. Shows how much time you've spent outside the USA. Or reading for that matter.
You apparently don't even watch the news once in a while.

You're a typical libtard living in a pollyanna world of privilege and who's BLIND to how things work every where else- including your favorite paradise- western Europe.

I hope you're a high school nerd who's still too young to vote, cuz it would be a sin for an ignoramus like you to have a voice in choosing anything other than what toppings to have on your burger.

Huguenot Oct 15, 2008 - 12:25 PM EST
Excellent post. This is what God wants us to do: treat people as the individuals they are, not any group they happen to belong from birth.


Jim


Obama

If Barack Obama where white, he would be another undistinguished Harvard-trained lawyer. Yet he has a better than even chance of being the next president of the United States. As SunThe1 so succinctly pointed out, Obama is where he is because of white votes. Yet, to Carl and the Democrats, somehow the United States is a nation of outright racism.

John McCain is walking on eggshells to avoid the slightest offense, and Sarah Palin is denounced as racist for talking about Obama's ties to a WHITE domestic terrorist. Race as an issue has been conspicuously absent from the GOP side and front-and-center on the Democrat side. The only side making an issue of race in this election has been the Democrats, and they've done it since the primaries. They are fueling racial division and blaming Republicans, and it should be obvious to anyone with an ounce of honesty.

WorldWithoutSocialism
How true!!! The first gunned down in every Communist conquered country are socialists, no matter how strange it sounds. Actually, not strange at all.

Vladimir Lenin hated social-democrats like Plekhanov and Martov because he believed they distract proletariat from their ultimate goal of disposing of the private ownership (capitalism) toward the proletariat dictatorship and eventual communism.

Social democrats were very similar to American socialists today. They wonted workers rights, 8 hour day, health care, unionization and other freedoms.

Lenin's goal was radical, theirs - mild socialist.

That's why Lenin and Stalin killed mild socialists first,capitalists second. Stalin did that in Spanish Civil war of 1936, when his agents murdered Trotskyites and mild socialists who came to fight Franco. Even in conquered Eastern Europe after WW2, Stalin still murdered socialists first, Nazi sympathizers second.

This is a warning for Obama supporters: Path to the just society of brothers always leads to the mass murder. Very careful there, Obama socialists.

more cherry picking
It is pretty interesting that the only thing you guys are slamming me for is the socialist thing. Not a single one of you is willing to admit that both John McCain and Sarah Palin have ties to ACORN, Sadam Hussein and the AIP.

Oh and to cut the rest of your foolish remarks off about my life style. I went to college on a scholarship and got a bachelor of science in a difficult technology field where I have made oodles of money.

The American society is lagging behind many other countries when it comes to education and health care. We are falling further and further behind particularily in technology to the Japanese, the Koreans, the Chinese and many other countries because we are not educating our children.


Huguenot
The reason the top 1% pay 40% of income taxes is because they have 40% of the finacial wealth in the country.

Thanks, Jim

I hope the same thing as you.

And Winston829, you need to understand that some of the people on this threads are more comfortable with name-calling, distortion and gross generalizations. So be careful where you point those facts and insights, someone could get hurt.

Sandra

Actually, according to the IRS they earned 22% of all gross unadjusted income. No, they pay 40% because we live in a country with a morally repugnant progressive tax structure.

Did they steal that wealth, or earn it? If they stole it, prosecute and jail them. If they earned it, who the blazes are you to confiscate it from them?

Tell me, at what income level does it become morally justifiable to require someone to work from January to May just to surrender it to the government?

People like you are just like SUV-haters. There's a line between acceptable and unacceptable cars, and their own cars always conveniently fall on the acceptable side of that line. Like you, they employ no logic or consistency in their bizarre arguments.

Republican Smear Machine??
Baloney. It's the dimwits who have made an absolute art out of knowing how to smear, and more to the point, how to distort facts, distract away from uncomfortable weaknesses, and completely demonize and demolish any who would dare to disagree or stand in their way.

What we're witnessing in this election year is the culmination of all of these finely honed skills, orchestrated by some real masters at it. In harmony, I might add.

Dare we say it?? "VAST LEFT-WING CONSPIRACY"

Huguenot
"John McCain is walking on eggshells to avoid the slightest offense, and Sarah Palin is denounced as racist for talking about Obama's ties to a WHITE domestic terrorist."

Oh come on. Eggshells??? You have got to be kidding! Palling around with a known terrorist is walking on eggshells?? Mentioning ACORN like it is a dirty word every speech is walking on eggshells? Asking repeatedly do you know who Obama really is, is walking on eggshells?

I am glad to see though that you are apparently okay with Palins association with the AIP and McCain's association with David Ishfin and Sadam Hussein. Nice.

Oh and isn't Huguenot French? Are you more proud of your French heritage than your American citizenship? Or maybe you like their socialist system and secretly hope Obama will win so we will also be a socialist country.

Cherry picking?

I addressed the whole ACORN thing already. You need more than tinfoil-hat stuff if you want to be taken seriously.

Oh, and you made oodles of money. Did you make enough to where the government is justified in taking a third of it? You obviously are a big believer in the efficacy of big government, and so were probably only too happy to give it up, and think everyone else should be Joe Biden patriotic and give it up, too. But real generosity involves direct action, not throwing one's labor down the black hole of the Federal government.

Reba
I Like you Quesiotns. Do yo ulike my answers?

1) Will we have security in this country as we have had for the past 7 years. The Muslim radicals are still out there, wainting for an oportunity.

Absolutely

2)Will Isarel still have an alliance with
the USA?

Absolutely

3)Will Iran come to believe we are soft?

No

4) Will our American soldiers come home from Iraq with a sense of pride of a job well done or the feelings of another defeat?

Some will, some won't

5) Will the increase of taxes really stimulate the economy or push us to a higher unemployment rate?

No one knows.

6)Will one-half of the American population come to feel they are working to support the other one-half?

No

7) Will billions of the taxpayers money go the South Africa countries like Kenya without the taxpayers having a decision or voice in Washington?

No

8) What part will the radical associates of Obama past play in his Administration?

Very little

9) Will Michelle Obama represent her country with pride, honor and patriotism AND SHOW IT?

Probably not enought to satisy you


10) Will both of the Obamas care about the needs of all of the citizens of America or just the few?

All of them

11) Will you as an American feel a sense of pride when "Hail to the Chief" is played when Barack Hussein Obama walks into a room"

Yes

Huguenot
And the top 1% still have 40% of the financial wealth in this country. Using the gross unadjusted income is misleading at best.

Where to begin.

No, "palling around with a known terrorist" is a folksy, slightly annoying way of characterizing Obama's relationship with Bill Ayers, an unrepentant WHITE domestic terrorist. Again, how is that racist?

ACORN is a dirty word because of their demonstrated subversion of the electoral process and role in the subprime crisis. Again, HOW IS THAT RACIST?

Yes, walking on eggshells. Time and again John McCain has passed up on opportunities to talk about the associations that point out Obama's nonexistent judgment and give thinking people pause because to people like you, any criticism of Obama whatsoever is racist.

In regards to McCain and Palin's associations, your source for which is undoubtedly some kook blog, Obama supporters really should think twice about brining up relations.

Your last paragraph is beyond idiotic, but for the record, I do have a bit of French in the woodpile, but mostly thought Hueguenot (misspelling intentional) was a catchy screen name.

I no lonnger care
if I am called racist or even if I am racist. I don't care if I'm politically incorrect in any manner whatsoever. If what I have to say offends you instead of being angry with me try some introspection (look it up). We have turned the Presidency and our entire government into a monumental joke. We're fighting with each other over stupid stuff - we all have our big mouths open and our eyes, ears and minds closed. When this election is over I'm going to sell my TV, renew my library card and say goodbye to the bullsheet.

Oh, Sandy

If you don't like gross unadjusted income, for which there are actually numbers in support (where is any support for any of your assertions?), use any measure you like. Either way, your ideas on wealth redistribution have nothing to do with maximizing the revenues your precious government will have at it's disposal to remedy all of life's problems, rather it's all about envy and resentment. And Obama calls gun-owners bitter.

Peggy

I think you're on to something! And on that note, I do have a job to go to so for now, bon jour to all (a little French lingo there for Sandra)!

Democrat Talking Points
The Drudge Report has a list of talking points the Obama Campaign has sent around to the media for the debate!!!

If anyone had any doubt that the media and Obama were working together to get him elected ,it is removed now.

Hugenot
You really did not address the ACORN thing. Yep, Obama was their lawyer along with the Justice Department to make the state follow the motor voter registration law.

Now let us look at that a little more closely. You are condemning a lawyer for the people he represents. With this line of reasoning the lawyer who defended Ted Bundy should also have been convicted of Bundy's crimes. I guess any lawyer who represents someone is automatically associated with them and should suffer the same penalty. Might make the defense lawyers work a little harder.

You also seem to happy with McCain speaking at an ACORN event telling them they were what made America great. Maybe you are just a little hypocritical.

I am still waiting on the Ifshin thing, the William Timmons thing and the AIP thing. Take your time, you probably need to look them up or something.

I also glad to see you are okay with 1% of the country having 40% of the financial wealth. Yes, there are numbers from numerous studies done over the years, you could go look them up yourself if you don't believe me.

Are you French??

Obama's tax plan will destroy
America. It's a fact.

If Obama wins the election his "Tax the Rich" plan will destroy this great country.

Just look at the numbers from an independant site;

If you make $250k/year Adjusted Gross Income in 2012 your taxes will be $4,000 higher under Obama.

McCain = $73,393 taxes owed
Obama = $77,634 taxes owed

Shocking. Socialism.
http://www.electiontaxes.com/

pablo st. cruz
Do you make more than $250k a year? Most people don't. The tax levels Obama are proposing would be the same as they were under Clinton's administration. I don't recall anyone in that tax bracket going broke under Clinton's taxes and as I also recall the economy was booming.

Hugenot #53
The top 1% of tax payers paid $368 billion dollars in income tax in 2007. That includes capitol gains taxes.

The next 111 million taxpayers (the middle class) paid around $538 billion dollars and only 1-in-7 of those taxpayers used capitol gains.

So to answer your question, I have no idea if they worked for the money or not.

But under Obama's plan the top 1% (1.3 million returns) would have a tax increase of about 12% (which puts it back to 39.6%) and that increase would total an additional tax burden to the top 1% of $50 billion.

So here's the real deal - Obama socks it to the top 1% (above $250k/year AGI) and those 1.3 million taxpayers cough up an additional $38,000/year. Very rough numbers.

It's more like $4,000 for the $250K set and $67K for the big guys.

So how is that going to wreck our economy any worse than it is right now?

tactics
Obama is running a Saul Alinsky (Rules for Radicals) campaign based on skills he learned as a community organizer. One principle is that you try to get the opponent to follow the rules. When attacked, Obama screams "you're being divisive" or "distracting from the issues". Meanwhile, he does similar attacks. If the opponent follows the rules and you don't, it gives you an advantage. It's not about being fair, its about winning.

Sandra #66
It was meant to be ironic. You know, a joke. With all the talking heads spouting their Rushisms I though I would throw in some facts. You know to scare them.

I'm a sucker.
I just had to take one more look, didn't I?

OK, I'll type slowly for you. I did not condemn Obama over ACORN. You downplayed his involvement, I called you on it. Motor Voter? Try bringing suit aganinst Citibank, using Race to extort them into easing loan restrictions on bad credit risks. The same bad risks that have defaulted on their mortgages in massive numbers. You like to twist words, don't you? I think Obama's association with ACORN is worthy of criticism, to you that is the same as comparing him to a serial killer. Can't you see the absurdity?

What you do is make these huge, bizarre leaps in logic. I criticize Obama, therefore I condemn him. Left wing blogs say Timmons lobbied for Saddam, therefore McCain has ties to Saddam. Todd Palin belonged to a separatist party, therefore Sarah Palin is racist and hates America. Yeah, I did have to look some of that stuff up, because even a media that's in the bag for Barack doesn't seem to think them newsworthy.

By the way, you haven't addressed many of my statements to you. Cherrypicking, you might call it.

Whether I'm happy with 1% having 40%, is IMMATERIAL. I don't like that the guy across town has an S-Class Mercedes and I don't, but I don't get to have the government take it from him and give it to me. I don't have the right to confiscate people's wealth from them just because I think it's unfair, and neither do you. It's called Marxism.

I already answered your French question, look it up.

pablo st. cruz
My apologies. I have tried sarcasm, parody and irony on this site and generally no one gets it. I didn't read the last line like I should have. Once again, my apologies.

Pablo:

AKA Mr. Strawman Argument:

I never said anything was going to wreck our economy. I asked Sandra if she thinks the top 1% aren't paying their fair share, already knowing her answer. So simple, even a Democrat could understand it.

If you're going to jump into a thread and take issue with my posts, be sure to read them with some comprehension first, and don't bother with the strawmen.

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These are all NBC sponsors.

Please please be polite when you call these people. We don't want to seem as unhinged as the loopy left.

Sandra

It's not that no one gets it. It's your ineptitude. It's that you should try to grasp basic concepts like honesty and avoid herculean leaps in logic before attempting to handle grown-up tools like sarcasm, parody and irony, otherwise, you could hurt yourself.

huguenot
You might want to study up on that whole Citibank thing a little more. Obama was a junior lawyer who did some behind the scenes work and spent just two hours in the courtroom while the senior guys tried the case.

Also, the CRA and loan income loans did not cause the current meltdown. Let us review the facts.

1. The tech boom collapsed in the late 1990's.
2. 9/11 happened in 2001 causing a downturn in the stock market.
3. Investors looking for a place to put their money turned to the construction industry.
4. The Republicans through the Gramm-Leach-Billey Act deregulated the investment industry allowing investment firms to buy up the sub-prime mortgages and bundle them together.
5. Moody's and Standard and Poor's called these sub-prime bundled mortgages AAA securities instead of BB.
6. Other banks and investment firms loaned money based upon the AAA rating so the first investment firms allowing them to make even more bad investments.
7. The vast majority of the sub-prime loans were not made due to CRA regulations. In fact CRA loans were making money for the traditional banks however they were not making as much as traditional mortgages which is why the banks did not want to write them.

Go take a drive through a new subdivision and look at the foreclosure signs. These were not low income inner city people taking out these loans. Also, if were low income people why are so many upscale condo towers sitting empty?

Sandra
Look out dear, Huquenot is beating his intellectual chest.


pablo st. cruz
Huguenot hurt my feelings and I am crying now. His last post really proves he is the most intelligent person who ever commented here.

Sandra:

You mean like you were preening about over your wit in #71?

And pablo, I doubt I even come close to being the most intelligent one here, but I do try to read carefully and take issue with what people actually say, not with my own twisted-until-unrecognizable version of what they say.

But hey, look, I didn't mean to make you guys sad. Now I feel bad. Bad Huguenot! Just to show there's no hard feelings, here's a tip: If you want a kind and gentle forum where alternative viewpoints are welcomed and treated with respect, the left-wing blogs are really nice and tolerant.

New Afrika
A few years ago, while doing a shake-down of a Convict's Dorm Room, I came across an article in "The Source", a Hip-Hop Youth's magazine. There were ads for ALL the Black Power Groups, that I knew of, and some that I didn't. These ads advocated the OVERTHROW of the American Gov't and CHANGE of the name of the U.S.of America, to---"New Afrika". Just as the Blood-baths that followed the end of European rule in Africa,So will they ensue HERE, when the Obamanistas take control. White America NEVER had a CLUE as to how much HATRED is directed their way, by the BLACK LIBERATIONISTS!! Then CAME The Prophet JEREMIAH [Wright] who Exposed to Mainstream America, what I, and every other Law enforcement/Correction Officer Knew All ALONG. They HATE us. ALL of us!! EVEN the BLEEDIN" HEART LIBERAL WEENIES, [Like Alan Combs] who Take Up thier Cause. The only consolation that I will Have, After the ELECTION RIOTS, and Barrack the "Commizar of Chicago" becomes the "Ayatollah [for life] of The United Socialist States Of New Afrika", is that THEY, [as Turncoats to thier own Race and therefore not to be trusted], will be the First ones who to be executed, along with the Media Intelligencia, who acted as the FIFTH COLUMN, in this CLASS WARFARE. I am gonna LAUGH M- A-- Off, When the "Kenyan Change-Ling" discovers that-- [1] There is No One left to Pay Taxes to support His Welfare State.-- [2] If ya can't Drill Your Way Out, you can't PRINT Enough [Non- Gold-Backed Paper] Dollars to Buy your Way Out. America ,as we knew it, is LOST FOREVER!!

McCain is on the same page as Obama
Why do people keep saying that McCain needs to do this to win, or McCain needs to do that to win. This upcoming debate will be the same as the others. Boring... Try to pick the difference between the candidates. I realised it was too subtle for me to do it. Yes I know that despite all the McCain spending announcements, he really is against government spending. And that although he regrets going into Iraq he was right on the surge.

Look, after spending his life working so closely with Democrats like his mate Ted Kennedy, and fighting Republicans, he finally has a campaign he can be proud of. And it's almost the same as Obama's. In fact he has made all of his supporters comfortable with an Obama presidency because he said himself that Obama was a good decent family man.

This is appalling. The only thing he has done to impress has to introduce us to Sarah Palin. And she over shadows him like a storm.

Sandra
Hey where do you think this sub prime mess came from? Do you think owners of money wanted to give it away to people who can't repay? It happened because they were forced to. And everyone thought it could be covered up in bundling. A laughable view now.

I you think this was market failure then you know precious little about markets.

Sandra

This is no longer about politics, it's about reading comprehension.

First you implied in #27 that Obama had no real connection with ACORN, saying he merely "went to a meeting where ACORN was present." When pressed, in #64 you added his involvement in Motor Voter lawsuits but still ignored his work in helping ACORN shake down banks a la Jesse Jackson. I didn't say that CRA-involved loans caused the meltdown. I'm saying that Obama's ACORN involvement, which also includes training and financial assistance, are not merely trivial as you make it out to be (to which you say I'm comparing him to Ted Bundy). You are certainly a slippery one to debate. You continue to sidestep the issues at the root of the conversation by going off on new tangents that have nothing to do with them (take a drive through a new subdivision). Since you've found it convenient to either ignore or distort just about all of my arguments, this has become pointless. It's like mud-wrestling a pig (no offense), the pig likes it and you end up soiled.

Zak
ACORN,Obama and Ayers were there from the start of this sub-prime mess. The RNC has only a few more days to pound this truth. What are they waiting for?

The Obama Tax Plan
will only increase taxes on anybody that buys products.

Individuals pay taxes. Corporations pass on taxes.

Obama will be taxing the corporations and they will pass it on to you.

Simple economics.

Conservative wusses
Conservatives can dish it out, but they sure as h*** can't take it. Mr. Goldberg is shocked at attacks on his candidates, but each day I read TH columnists and posters, and find that Obama is routinely labeled a "Communist," an enemy of this country, and much worse. I see no difference between the venting done by liberals against uyour ticket and your venting done against my ticket.

As for the history of conservative slurs and smears directed against Democrats, there's at least as much on your side as on mine. Ideological warfare isn't pretty. Mr. Goldberg should grow up if he wants to get into combat. And, forgodsake, stop whining! For a conservative to whine about fair play is absurd.

It's over...
Face it: The parasites now outnumber the producers.

It's time to move to Texas and secede from the Union.

A revealing and frightening "Obama Timeline" at:
http://www.colony14.net/id41.html

"What Obama would do..." at:
http://www.colony14.net/id35.html

CARL AND SANDRA NEED TO GO TO HUFFINGTON
SANDRA - I'll start with you, go live in a socialist country for one year and then come back and tell Americans how great it is. I lived in a Soviet Eastern Bloc Country for 2 1/2 years and saw the horror that you don't ever want to experience. My host family's partents were University teachers, could no longer teach at that level because they refused to join the "party". One lady told me of standing in line for 2 hours to buy her 10 year old son his first orange. Food stuffs were still limited when I was there in the 1990's.
CARL - You are very wrong when you spit out that the world knows our history of racism, they admire what we have accomplished as a interracial culture.. There were cruel treatment of blacks in our past history, but the world sees us as a society that is accepting of every race and ethic group, that is why so many want to come here. A Education leader in the Eastern Bloc Country where I lived and worked ask me one day how we achieved an equal society with the blending of anglos and blacks.
He understood hateful racism because it still existed in his country between two ethic groups. I worked with this man to organize a training program in his country for handicap and minorities. My answer to him was that we came together better as a blended nation with the civil rights movement of the 1960's and the leadership of a man like Martin Luther King and
other Americans, black and white, who cared about injustice. So here you and others are still yelling about past injustices while there are almost nightly drive by shootings in my city by young black men who target the black and white neighborhoods, selling drugs and last week shot two policemen in the line of duty. It is time the likes of you stop yelling "victim" or "racist" and do something worthwhile to set examples for the black youths of every community.

Gestell

This coming from a supporter of the thinnest-skinned candidate in history, He Who Is Not to be Criticized.

Sandra
""Obama didn't pal around with terrorists, he was in the guy's home once for a political meeting and served with the guy on a charitable board that was founded by a friend of Ronald Reagan. Annenberg was also appointed by Nixon to be ambassador to the United Kingdom also. Do you people think Reagand and Nixon were muslim terrorists too?""

Wrong, Wrong, and Wrong again.

I suppose you're gonna try and tell us their kids go to school together like axelrod tried to this summer.

C'mon Sandra, try a little intellectual Honesty, Obama didn't just "sit on a Board" with Ayers. Ayers hired Obama to administer $150 million in grant money he swindled from the annenberg foundation. This is the Sole executive Experience Obama has, "sitting" on that board.

Oh, what Miracles of liberalism did Obama accomplish with that $150mill? Not a damn thing that anyone can find on the records.


The grant was given to ayers by liberal foundation admins LONG after Annenberg himself was dead. Trying to tie Annenberg to ayers is weak even for a liberal.


Of course you don't mind if dead people vote....



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God forbid Obama should win . . .
. . . but if he does, shouldn't we worry about how he is going to react when faced with a real challenge? It's gonna be, "Guess what Mr. President? Not time for a speech, you'd better do something!"

"Um, er, uh, . . . "

And for you libs . . .
Have you ever wondered how it is--with all the fawning and absolutely ridiculous media coverage The Messiah gets--that he's only ahead by 3 or 4 points in the real polling data??? Ever wonder where "The One" would be if he were subjected to the constant drumbeat of negativity that the MSM heaps on Bush and Cheney?

Just asking . . .=)

Mr. Goldberg
I saw you tonight on Glenn Beck, and I have to say that you are an idiot. I say that with all affection, but you really are an idiot.

You seem to have taken it as an axiom that the bailout and this partial nationalization is necessary. Yet, you offer no evidence for this. It is like you believe that since things are bad now, and since something can be done to mitigate the damage, and the bailout/partial nationalization is something, then the bailout/partial nationalization is necessary and should be done.

You have made no effort to connect your mind with the facts of reality and all the wisdom of the centuries that say that statist solutions to a crisis can only ever make a bad situation worse--a lot worse.

You need to stop exercising faith-based capitalism and start putting your head back in the textbooks and figure out what the reality of this situation is.

Sandra
You're an embarassment to the State of Florida. Are you sure you're not from Palm Beach County?

DOESN'T PAL AROUND WITH TERRORISTS?
Libs say it doesn't matter that he "associated" with repugnant anti-Americans while with the Chicago Annenberg Commission Illinois Senator and cutting checks for Acorn and Ayers' projects. It was soooo long ago. Why then, if BO is such a great American patriot, did he campaign for Marxist Raila Odinga (one son is named Fidel) in Kenya in 2006 who is complicit in the murder of rivals and who supports Shariah law for the Muslim minority with the campaign slogan of "Change"? I suppose 2006 is soooo yesterday?

http://www.nysun.com/opinion/kenya-connection/69273/

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5459520146851611860 &ei=QgTrSObaLYuE-wG-m_miAw&q=Raila+Odinga+Obama&vt=lf&hl=en

"Facts are stubborn things." - John Adams

reply to Huguenot
Obama is thin-skinned, and most liberal I know can find things about him and his positions to criticize. Last week I took a little on-line quiz that popped up on TH to see how much I agreed with Obama. I agreed with him on about 60% of his positions. Like many conservatives, you probably assume that Obama supporters--because their liberals and Democrats--are in lock-step agreement with everything he says.

I think this is more than a bit of projection from your own narrow perspective.

Gestell

Perhaps I could have stated it better, but my quip was about Obama, not his supporters. I have no idea how monolithic they are in their thinking. My point is that Obama is The One Who Must Not be Blasphemed, and can't take any criticism at all. But as I have been chastizing people for not reading posts carefully, I'll admit that I missed the mark by responding to a post of yours that was aimed not at McCain himself but at his supporters, with a barb launched at His Worship.

Your last paragraph, is unfortunate, though. I have no need for projection, and you have no idea how wide or narrow my perspective is.

"Messiah"
Urgent!!!
An important report:
"A Messiah Manufactured by Marxism"(The United Socialist States of America) by Judi McCleod, October 16, 2008
Details at:
http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/5600

Dewey - Businessman?
Although Dewey was seen as representing the interests of the Northeastern business community, I don't believe he ever ran or worked in a business (other than a few years in his own private law practice). Certainly most of his career was as a Federal prosecutor, a NY County ADA and DA, and as Governor.
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