Townhall.com, Where Your Opinion Counts
Talk Radio:   Bill Bennett   Mike Gallagher   Dennis Prager   Michael Medved   Hugh Hewitt   
BREAKING NEWS  LeftArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican   RightArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican  
Columns, funnies & more in your inbox!
  • Check the boxes and send us your email address to receveive your free newsletter
  • Your daily must-read of conservative columns, cartoons and news. Coulter, Sowell, Krauthammer and more.
  • Townhall.com’s weekly inside scoop on what’s happening behind the scenes in the world of politics. When news breaks, we report.
  • Signup to receive the latest daily Townhall cartoons
Wednesday, October 01, 2008
Jonah Goldberg :: Townhall.com Columnist
No One's Clean in This Mess
by Jonah Goldberg
Vote on It:
Average Vote:
[+] Text [-]
 
Poll
Will the Dems' health care Christmas Present to America be an improvement or detriment to our health care system?


On Sunday evening, Republican House Minority Leader John A. Boehner explained his considered opinion on the $700 billion Wall Street bailout plan: It's a "crap sandwich," he said, but he was going to eat it.

Well, it turned out he couldn't shove it down his colleagues' throats. The bill failed on a bipartisan basis, but it was the Republicans who failed to deliver the votes they promised. Some complained that Democratic Speaker Nancy Pelosi drove them to switch their votes with her needlessly partisan floor speech on the subject. Of course Pelosi's needlessly partisan. This is news?

The Republican complaint is beyond childish. Democratic Rep. Barney Frank, a man saturated with guilt for this crisis, nonetheless was right to ridicule the GOP crybabies on Monday. "I'll make an offer," he said. "Give me (their) names and I will go talk uncharacteristically nicely to them and tell them what wonderful people they are and maybe they'll now think about the country."

Would that Frank had been imbued with such a spirit earlier. Frank, chairman of the House Financial Services Committee, has spent the last few years ridiculing Alan Greenspan, John McCain and others who sought more regulation for Fannie Mae's market-distorting schemes - the fons et origo of this financial crisis. Now he says "the private sector got us into this mess." His partner in crime, Senate Banking Committee Chairman Christopher Dodd (D-Conn.), a chief beneficiary of Fannie Mae lobbyists' largesse, claims this mess is the result of poor oversight - without even hinting at the fact he is in charge of oversight of banks. They sound like pimps complaining about the prevalence of STDs among prostitutes.

And let us not forget that House Democrats, with a 31-seat majority, could not get 95 of their own to vote for the bailout, largely because it didn't provide enough taxpayer money to their left-wing special interests. Would that they thought about the country.

The one man who truly tried to treat this crisis like a crisis - McCain - was ridiculed by Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, who implored him to come to Washington to help in the first place. And the news media, which now treat any Republican action that threatens a Barack Obama victory as inherently dishonorable, uncritically accepted the bald Democratic lie that McCain ruined a bipartisan bailout deal last Friday.

This is not to say that McCain knows what to do. Faced with an unprecedented financial crisis involving frozen global credit markets and a maelstrom of moral hazard, his standard response is to talk about wiping out earmarks and eliminating waste, fraud and abuse. Memo to Mr. McCain: Waste, fraud and abuse are the only things holding the system together at this point.

Obama is no better. The man has spent two weeks irresponsibly excoriating his opponent for saying the fundamentals of the economy are strong - a perfectly leaderly thing for McCain to have said during a panic. Then, campaigning in Colorado on Monday, the day the Dow plunged 777.68 points, Obama proclaimed: "We've got the long-term fundamentals that will really make sure this economy grows."

Perhaps after al-Qaida seizes Baghdad, a President Obama would finally declare, "Hey, we can win this thing!"

Meanwhile, President Bush, his popularity ratings stuck at below-freezing numbers, has decided to cling to Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson for warmth on the grounds that the vaunted former Goldman Sachs CEO has the credibility to sell the solution to a problem he's been exacerbating for 18 months. When a reporter for Forbes magazine asked a Treasury spokesman last week why Congress had to lay out $700 billion, the answer came back: "It's not based on any particular data point. We just wanted to choose a really large number."

There's a confidence builder.

As for the reputedly free-market purists of the congressional GOP, with whom my sympathies generally lie, I cannot let pass without comment the fact that they controlled the legislative branch for most of the last eight years. Only now, when capitalism is in flames, does this fire brigade try to enforce the free-market fire codes without compromise.

I loathe populism. But if there ever has been a moment when reasonable men's hands itch for the pitchfork, this must surely be it. No one is blameless. No one is pure. Two decades of crapulence by the political class has been prologue to the era of coprophagy that is now upon us. It is crap sandwiches for as far as the eye can see.

Share:
Vote on It:
Average Vote:
 
About The Author
Jonah Goldberg is editor-at-large of National Review Online.
 
TOWNHALL DAILY: Be the first to read Jonah Goldberg's column. Sign up today and receive Townhall.com daily lineup delivered each morning to your inbox.
Crap sandwiches line horizon, indeed
Current financial crisis, not just a crisis in liquidity, but a crisis in placement of liquidity which is economic ballast that will be a drag on the productive economy for years.

Equity markets where investment bears no relationship to underlying earnings potential or productive capacity. Too many dollars chasing too little productivity.

Significant investment in productive capacity located within the borders of foreign nations whose ideals differ markedly from our own, putting them at risk of nationalization in times of economic crisis.

An "idea" and "service" economy - the outermost layer of a complex global economy, and the first to go during any significant economic contraction. (What will we do, sit around and cut each other's hair?)

Oh, yeah. Enormous unfunded obligations at the federal level (Social Security, Medicare, federal pensions) and the state level (Medicaid, state public employees' pensions).

Who knows what other defaults lie ahead, but it looks grim unless someone comes up with the brilliant idea that generates energy from thin air.

If only our schools encouraged scientists, our society wasn't a network of cliques and our economy still rewarded innovation.



WE THE PEOPLE
i'V POSTED THIS BEFORE BUT I'M STILL POSTING IT AGAIN.
This may sound rediculous to some of you but I personally think we the people should file a class action lawsuit against the Congress, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and anyone else directly envolved in causing this mess. Each Congress person involved and all big executives that recieved a golden rip off should have to pay out of his or her's pockets to clean up the mess they caused not the American Tax payer............. wE CAN START WITH OBAMA,DODD,PELOSI,REID,ACORN,cLINTON, CARTER ETC...........................a FEW MILLION OUT OF THEIR POCKETS SHOULD CLEAN UP THIS MESS VERY NICELY........

Malfeasance
O.K., so the bailout bill failed to pass. The Socialist-Democrat Party could have passed it in the House with NO Republican votes.

Dodd and Frank should be impeached. Raines should be in jail.

The pundits are all so fair-and-balanced, pontificating that "there's enough blame to go around." Seems to me that the most egregious villains are the Dems, going back to the Clinton reign. Sure, the Republicans sat on their hands because they didn't want to be called "racist" (which the Dems will do anyway). Bush has a history of failing to prosecute ANYONE except border guards and steroid abusers.

There needs to be some perp-walks, and damn soon.

The "House" on the Potomac
Scatological descriptions aside, what has me warming up the asphalt and tearing up the good pillows is the bald faced audacity of Frank and Co. These charter members of our parliament of whores have over their extremely long stay in the House of ill repute on the Potomac have used their powers of prostitution to make sure that we the people got rolled. They hold an extremely large share of the blame for this mess, due to their social engineering/vote buying programs that forced banks to give out loans they knew were going to default and forcing Freddie and Fannie to hold this worthless paper. Yet they expect us to listen when they claim that they can “fix” the problem that they have worked so hard to create? I recently read that a Democrat stated, “We put criminals in jail, not reward them”, well that would be nice. What I would really like to see is a purple Escalade drive up to the “House” and a couple of large gentleman in primary colored suits get out and drag off those old Ho’s and put them back on the streets where they belong.
One thing is for sure, I definitely will pass on Madam Pelosi’s lunch special. She helped make that sandwich let her eat it.

Keep confusing the confused !
Jonah, the other day I was looking for articles from you in National Review because I thought you were a fair minded conservative, now you put out this GARBAGE, which will only help to confuse the confuse even more ! Right into the hands of the leftist opportunits. The guilty love to at least split the blame, 50% guilt is better than 100% specially when you can keep lying that you are not guilty at all! Old demoncratic tactic and you played right into their hands, maybe that pair of scissors Jesse wanted to use to cut Barack's, he used on... Sure the Republicans should of fought more and continued to be called racists while they were fighting to keep our country safe and terrorists out of our courts and with citizens rights ! Which battle would you have fought ?? Or do you not think there is a war on terror (demoncrat propaganda) How about the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan..You want to help our country tell the story the true way, write about the last two disastrous years of Demoncrapy Congress and all of the years of obstruction and divisiness they spent in the congress and house before that and continue to do still today! Write more about your excellent point that so many democrats bailed on the bill because acorn was left out (specially the ME black caucus)and the other leftist liberal programs that they as usual tried to sneak by on the pretence that it is for the people, all in traditional socialist communist style with the touch of thieves in a capital system ! The blame goes to the demoncraps, don't play into their hands and split it ! Please, for our country's sake !

I think you're funny
and I understand that ridicule is part of your charm but "GOP crybabies" I beg to differ. The Republicans were set up. There was nothing they could do or not do that wasn't going to end with the Democrats blaming them for everything. I think they, with the help of Peolsi's speech may have figured that out.

The statement that Pelosi's speech led to the defeat of the bill may not have been precise but it was not necessarily wrong.

Republican leaders convinced an unknown number of their members that they had to vote for the bill for the good of the country. Pelosi blames everything on Republicans before the vote is even taken. Then significant numbers of Democrats (she and Franks should have been able to control) voted No. Do you think light bulbs might have been going off all around?

I find it appropriate to ridicule Franks but not to ridicule with him (it seems to me, his victims seldom, if ever, deserve it).

THE BAILOUT VOTE WAS A SETUP!
This bailout vote that failed was a set up by the Democrats. Pelosi even gave junior congressmen her permission for them to vote nay. She and her Liberal Dems wanted to make sure the Republicans did not receive credit for it or was it the fact that American citizens are seeing through all of the flakes in congress and let them know, "We're mad as hell, and we ain't going to take it anymore". They suddenly became fearful of their own reelections. It is really sad that the congress doesn't get it. They have the lowest approval rating ever and keep on doing what they have been doing for 2 decades. That Barney Frank is a two faced slime. I saw the video where he was opposing regulation on Fannnie Mae and Freddie Mac and now spits out vile blaming the Republicans. However, all of Washington is responsible. Too much of our tax dollars have been available to them to play as they wish and as voters we have not held them accountable. It has been like the Roaring twenties, let's dance to dawn. Well, Dawn has arrived and I believe more Americans are awake to what is really going on. However, one half of them still want to believe that Obama should be our new leader. Would someone call the Pope?

Repub. reaction completely reasonable
Jonah - The GOP reaction to Pelosi is completely reasonable. Consider the context: Flocks of dems are voting against it, and their leader has just said, "The conservatives and the free market blew it, again. Now we have to wipe their incompetent *sses for them." By the way, GOP, vote yes and confirm what I just said."

No, thank you. In the first verstion, this fraud Pelosi tried to pass billions in subsidies to groups like ACORN. Some on the right were insisting that package needed to be passed. It didn't this one didn't, and any excuse is worth killing it.

TOTA

erm-Limits For Congress!
America is in the grip of a gigantic bureaucratic tyranny. It's too late to reverse their unending quest to justify their parasitic existence.

Most of our industries have long since left our shores seeking friendlier business environments like those in the BRIC countries (Brazil, Russia, India, China) and just about everywhere else.

We have taxed and regulated our corporations out of business. California is a good example of this: bankrupt financially, economically, morally and spiritually, with a credit rating on a par with that of Bolivia!

Our four largest industries are presently taking their last breath :

1 - Healthcare - Trial lawyers have killed this industry, provoking insurance premiums both business and individuals can't afford.
2 - Housing - Government meddling has ruined this industry for at least the next 20 years.
3 - Financial Services - NY used to be the world's center, now it's being diluted to other markets such as London, Tokyo, Hong Kong, Zurich and others. Our credibility has been lost forever.
4 - Agriculture - Taxed and regulated to a point where even all the subsidies and market protection can't help it anymore. Brazil's free market agriculture, without market restrictions and no subsidies, is taking over on a global basis.

Oblahma-Bin-Biden can't be trusted to run a shoe-shine parlor!

Egon--come up with something new already
Quit posting the same post after every Townhall column. Comment specifically to the column or leave off, please!

Democrat Politics
Goldberg used to be a pretty good political analyst but even the best columnists can be suckered.

This was a setup, Jonah, and the House Republicans realized it. Pelosi and the Democrats wanted to roll the Republicans. If they voted for the package, they would be blamed. If they voted against the package, as they did, they are blamed.

The Democrats could easily have passed this bill but wanted to make sure the Republicans got the blame. Pure election year politics!


Opinion
I believe Mr. Goldberg really told it like it is! The responsibility for the current financial crisis lies in the perception that we can have a sound economic policy built upon political hot air and doublespeak.

All of you disagreeing with Mr. Goldberg's column, read the profound analysis by Prof. Thomas Sowell.

I believe the response by Diane (WA) speaks volumes of truth that give the basic reasons for our problems.

Put in a simple manner. Suppose I opened a store and called the business: "MADE IN AMERICA". The store would be almost completely empty of product, not even a cash register; however it would be full of free-wheeling customers desiring a piece of the action.

We have become a country of words and lack any substance, and will become more so under a President Obama. Sad to say.

NO BAILOUT!!
NO BAILOUT!! NO WAY--NO HOW!!
These scumbags in the Democratic party, particularly Obama, are responsible for this mess. They forced banks to make shaky loans through the Community Redevelopment Act and now want all of us to pay for their stupidity. Here's a list of the Senate up for re-election and you can email them at http://www.senate.gov and tell them NO BAILOUT!
Democrats Republicans
Baucus, Max (D-MT)
Biden, Joseph R., Jr. (D-DE)
Durbin, Richard (D-IL)
Harkin, Tom (D-IA)
Johnson, Tim (D-SD)
Kerry, John F. (D-MA)
Landrieu, Mary L. (D-LA)
Lautenberg, Frank R. (D-NJ)
Levin, Carl (D-MI)
Pryor, Mark L. (D-AR)
Reed, Jack (D-RI)
Rockefeller, John D., IV (D-WV)
Alexander, Lamar (R-TN)
Allard, Wayne (R-CO)
Chambliss, Saxby (R-GA)
Cochran, Thad (R-MS)
Coleman, Norm (R-MN)
Collins, Susan M. (R-ME)
Cornyn, John (R-TX)
Craig, Larry E. (R-ID)
Dole, Elizabeth (R-NC)
Domenici, Pete V. (R-NM)
Enzi, Michael B. (R-WY)
Graham, Lindsey (R-SC)
Hagel, Chuck (R-NE)
Inhofe, James M. (R-OK)
McConnell, Mitch (R-KY)
Roberts, Pat (R-KS)
Sessions, Jeff (R-AL)
Smith, Gordon H. (R-OR)
Stevens, Ted (R-AK)
Sununu, John E. (R-NH)
Warner, John (R-VA)


Every day's a bigger bite
To finish the quote. Of course, the Dems wanted the bill to fail so they could blame the Reps. But what happens if no bailout comes along? People will still go shopping at the mall, dining in restaraunts, and buying groceries at the supermarket, ie living their lives in as normal a fashion as they can. I live in an area that has been in the vanguard of economic malaise for the last few years- the highest unemployment rate in the country, plants closing, the favorite lawn decoration is a for sale sign, but there are no soup lines, the population is relatively stable, and I work for a manufacturing co that's doing quite well this year- we even work overtime frequently. Things are not rosy for everyone, but there is opportunity for those willing to bust their butts and not live beyond their means to get ahead.

pointless
Blame everyone but never define the problem. Impressive, Jonah.

NOW I GET IT
I never knew or realized that businesses took out loans to pay their employees. Here, I thought a company paid employees out of the profits the company made and also grew the company with their profits. But 'Now I Get It', profits go directly into the pockets of the administrators and loans are gotten to pay employees and grow the company.
So, the democrats following this same business model, after first lining their pockets with tax payer money, see Fannie and Freddie as their 'Golden Geese' able to lay 'Golden Eggs', by forcing the huge banking companies to give loans of any and every amount, with 'No Preconditions'(sound familiar?) to anyone or everyone.
Of course, the democrats knew their 'Golden Geese' would eventually quit laying, but they assumed they'd have Presidential power before that and then 'cook' the no longer useful and barren 'Geese' and go out and buy (with tax payer money) 'new and improved' 'Golden Geese'.
Lo and behold, the liberal lefts 'shoe in' Presidential power to be, was at risk. And the big banks cried 'You've bled us dry!' 'You have to save us now!' So, the democrats brought their barren 'Golden Geese' into the light of day to the public blaming Republicans for having created them. That's the 'crap sandwich' we're now being told to swallow to insure a democratic victory in November.
We, the American people are the victims of corrupt and criminal politicians (the majority in Congress). Isn't it about time the 'majority' of Americans stopped being victims and reimpowered the spine of Conservatism, on which our Country was founded? Our only 'power' is in the voting booth, which the democrats and ACORN have also corrupted, but if there are enough of us 'WE CAN' 'cook' the liberal lefts 'Goose'.

Wrong Jonah
The Pelosi strategy on the bill was to insure that enough Republicans voted for it to give her cover. She had operatives on the floor counting votes as well as the Whip no whipping. If even the Dems on the committee that wrote the bill voted for it it would have passed.

As for the fault of the overall mess, that is clearly in the Lamocrats court.

No Jonah, this is not a bipartisan mess, this is Democrap mess all the way.

Jerseyvet
Your post I agree with and this link gives credential to the games being played on Monday:

http://johnrlott.blogspot.com/2008/09/why-pelosi-gave-speec h-that-she-did.html

This was a set up to hang around the Republicans at the election.

Listen to Rove's account.

Vic
Further I would add that democr*ps are trying to cover their a*s because they were the ones that created this mess to begin with from more than 10 years ago; 18 times Bush attempted to get this worked out:

http://johnrlott.blogspot.com/2008/09/unheaded-warnings-abo ut-systemic-risk.html

and of course everyone ought be familiar with this by now:

http://johnrlott.blogspot.com/2008/09/democrats-on-fannie-m ae-and-freddie-mac.html

Congress, Wall Street and The American
Public are to blame. People who had no business taking out mortgages are just as much to blame as those whores in Congress and on Wall Street. I don't see any victims whatsoever. Where is the castigation for the "poor" (yeah, whatever) who were just as culpable thinking they were entitled to something they couldn't afford? Surely, they have brains in their heads and are capable of simple math like addition and subtraction though most were likely educated in public schools?

Have we so enshrined poverty after the New Deal and the Great Society programs that they've become part of our raison d'etre for every piece of legislation? Poor and victim just don't add up to "guarantees". Poor people may deserve homes, but can't afford them and so why did we finance them? I think I deserve a 5,000 acre ranch in Montana, but it isn't likely I'm going to get it financed because I can't afford it! Where was any common sense from anyone and why on earth should we save ourselves from the inevitable? We can't go back, we can't continue on this path, and without systemic changes in the financial regulatory system, there are no guarantees the bailout will fix anything. It will only delay what's coming.

I'm just sad that Americans are so stupid as to think a moron with no financial acumen like Obama has any answers! God help us, we're too dumb and weak to survive.

Time Has Come for Cleaning House
Our leaders in Washington are not really leaders,,,they are crooks who are covering their own backsides. With all the commotion they have created, I wouldn't be surprised to see we the people rise up in a very angry manner. NO bail out for the crooks in the senate and congress. By the way, who selects those who run Fannie Mae/Mac?

Alecto
Or those idiot people can just claim ignorance like Oprah's mother, who had had this rich statement in a recent counter-suit: "lack of knowledge, ability, and-or capacity" when creating her credit account"

Perhaps enough of those who were "tricked" into getting loans can make this claim and walk away.

Ever notice how the irresponsible act as such and then want to claim that they should have never been given the opportunity?

So, either we're racist because we won't give minorities who are not capable of managing their finances, mortgages they can't pay;

or WE'RE irresponsible for thinking that giving them opportunity to own a home and it is our own fault because we should have known that they didn't have the faculties to assimilate the breadth of their accountability.

It's just breathtaking!


Diane
Actually, they aren't "leaders" they're supposed to be our "representatives" yet they don't seem to be able to represent any of us either...

well, unless, of course, you're a liberal-victim-wanting to live the consequence free lifestyle American at the cost to everyone else, type of individual.

Scooternyc
Please tell me Oprah's mother is NOT trying to use that argument? And, I think there are plently of dummies who are white, black, asian and hispanic without needing to single out any one race.

This entitlement crisis has affected my own family. One of my relatives bought two homes during the boom. He skated on the first because the boom was spiraling and even though he had lost his job, was able to sell at a massive 60% profit after just 2 years. Did he learn anything or act more prudently? No, he thought he was a genuis, not lucky, and went right back to the trough and bought a home at double the cost of the first.

Everyone cautioned him that he should try to save more for a downpayment. He went ahead regardless of his financial circumstances. He also racked up massive consumer debt, bought three new cars and basically went on a spending binge.

Now, his mortgage has doubled and he is about to be foreclosed. Am I sorry? Yes, I am sorry that his greed and stupidity led him to this position. Do I feel a need to save him? No, no I don't. I feel nothing but pity for him because he is pathetic, like many who engaged in financially risky behavior. Sometimes people need to be hit on the head repeatedly before things start sinking into the dense matter underneath the skull.

Not the best plan
Most people are coming to beieve something has to be done but question if the current plan is the best way to go. Even Soros , the financial wizard and democrat supporter, is against it. He objects to purchaing bad mortgages but instead suggests the government infuse money into the financial structure and become stockholders. This is what Pickens did in buying into the failing Lehmann's and actually made money already.

Prostitutes on the Hill?

"They [Barney Frank & Chris Dodd] sound like pimps complaining about the prevalence of STDs among prostitutes."

THAT says it all, Jonah!

crapulence
The mortgage spectacle before us could never have existed without massive Government intervention into the mortgage market. These interventions include the establishment of GSEs that were let loose to play in the margin between government and private business (Fannie and Freddie), social engineering (Community Reinvestment) diametrically opposed to prudent lending practices and odd-ball business regulations (Sarbanes-Oxley with 'mark to market').

This poisonous mix was exploited by everyone with an angle to employ, in Congress, the GSEs, as well as mortgage institutions, community groups (ACORN), ad nauseum.

This is a compelling demonstration that government is singularly unqualified to run any segment of the economy.

If you like this spectacle you'll be orgasmic over government-run health care, which promises to add actual body counts to financial carnage as the costs of doing big-government business.

v/r,

-- Bud Hammons

Thanks Bud,
Bud writes:
"This is a compelling demonstration that government is singularly unqualified to run any segment of the economy."

Right on the money....no pun intended.

And these boobs want our trust to fix the mess they created? Are you kidding me? "They didn't see it coming" while economists from the Austrian school of economics have been forcasting this all along. The austrian school advocates get zero press.

Its the same thing over and over...the federal reserve, lender of last resort "abhors inflation", LOL, was created to smooth the bumps in the economy, LOL, and will provide the liquidity need to fix this mess, LOL.







The bigger picture
The most serious democrat crime is the very nature of their political strategy which revolves around the destruction of their opponents with no regard to truth and no regard to the damage that is ultimately unleashed upon this country. Nancy Pelosi epitomized this strategy – which has become so ingrained that it is second nature – when she maliciously placed the entire blame for the financial crisis on republicans in what was clearly an attempt to brainwash people and seize political advantage. She did so with no regard to the truth, with no regard to the repercussions concerning the bailout, and with no regard to how it distorts history and impacts our future. It wasn’t a matter of republicans having their “feelings hurt.” It was a matter of not wanting to play along as the democrats’ whipping boy. You can hardly blame them for that.

No one's clean in this mess
Help eliminate organized crime. NEVER re-elect anyone. WHR

SICK AND TIRED OF SO-CALLED CONSERVATIVE
talking heads, and other fools saying that Republicans share blame for this debacle. THEY ARE NOT AT FAULT. The culprits are Democrats who by the way are crafting the bailout and will have oversight and be coming back for more of our money and savings for a future we don't have anymore.

So cut the crap, Joel. You can't understand how to fix the problem unless you identify the cause and the culprits.

If Republicans truly were at fault in any way, John Condit would already be into 2 weeks of hearings to drive them out.

Dodd/Frank/Pelosi/Reid/and many more DUMS whose names I don't have room for should be in jail next to Enron execs.

And of yeah, FIRE that fool Paulson.

William Gale-Brookings Institute-CSPAN
"There really is no plan, per se. The 'plan' is to give Treasury Secretary Paulson a large sum of money to do whatever he thinks is necessary."

There you go folks.

Some plan eh?

We need a plan alright; but it had better be a plan to ensure our future posterity and the security of a free nation.

These rogues have got to go!

Risk-takers gone wild
It is amazing to me that professional risk analysts (Leyman Bros) with 162 years could have missed the risks involved in the paper they were purchasing...

It has been very helpful to me to understand the role Fannie & Freddie played in 'masking' the risks by putting a shroud of "Government Protection" on so many marginal mortgages - leading to a broad market misreading of the risks involved.

But now, of course, it is being played as a failure of regulation of the MARKET, and not the fundamentally unsound mucking of Fannie, Freddie, and laws designed to disallow reasonable risk assessment that are being blamed by the Dems...

I wonder why they would blame the market? Could it possibly be because it was their babies that have been the cause of the problem, and they don't want us to see where the blame for this really falls?

Nah - surely they are just misinformed, not actually unethical. :)

Paulson
Is a liberal democrat.Scooter tthanks for the u tube vid

the real blame
Time to blame the private mortgage lenders and Wall Street investment banks. All those re-fi letters you got in the mail, the past few years(one a day, no?) came from organizations outside the government regulatory process.

Wall Street would accept a mortgage from anyone with a pulse, bundle into a Collateral Mortgage Obligation and sell it for a lot of money. Unfortunately, they saddled these CMO's with credit default swaps and other heavily over-leveraged financial derivatives that they themselves didn't understand. The real estate market sunk which their quant models had NOT predicted. Oops!!

Did you see last Monday in the WSJ that JP Morgan and Goldman Sachs volunteered to go into the regulatory US banking system? They figured the government could run their business better than their own business plans. It has all been a big disgrace!

Though Fannie and Freddie have a share of the blame, I can't really put any of the blame on the Community Re-Investment Act.

It seems that for the past fews years, that I had heard a lot about 'Predatory Lending'. A situation where, instead of the government forcing lenders to lend more, that their could have been some rules to slow down too much lending.

According to the WSJ there were many states that wanted to institute their own rules, protecting their state's citizens, but the Bush administration opposed this, due to their core belief in democratic centralism, otherwise known as the Unitary Executive Theory and also known 100 years ago as Bolshevism.

Travis
It's time for we Conservatives to man-up and blame the Republican controlled Congress.

From January of 1995 through January of just last year, the Speaker of the House has been a Republican. Congress is responsible for oversight and regulation of various government entities. They blew it! Caso cerrado.


I am weary ...
of hearing how this was done to us. It indeed was done to some who because of the weight of democracy are swept along in the malstrom; but for most of us this is our continued payment.
The middle class which by far and away is the majority of voters have always went along to get along and were always in line with everyone else to recieve their share of government entitlements.
We had the choice of freedom and the individual responsibility that it entails or putting ourselves to the leash as does the upper financial classes and the lower financial classes. We opted for the myth of financial security.
I think hardship and privation are well earned and it is the only method that will educate the young ones as most of us have been too busy at the mall or the sports stadium.

If Obama and McCain and Jorge and Clinton are the best that this nation can offer and we are so blind as to believe that these synthetic people are an answer rather than a problem .......................To Hell with us Boomers!
Bye the bye ... you may think that now you'll have to work til an advanced age ... at what?
When the well runs dry, it's dry!

The Socialist United States of America?
Don't think so?
Then read this:

http://www.monbiot.com/archives/2008/09/30/congress-confron ts-its-contradictions/

You know the old saying: 'Life is a sh*t sandwich, the more bread you get the less sh*t you have to eat'

LetsAllRelax
I hope you will agree with me that Republicans have too many of their own socialist wealth-redistribution programs.

Moon colonies and such; too many Republicans say that the best way to spend America's valuable hi-tech, R&D money is on a big-government, bureaucratic, centrally planned program. Wasn’t this how they did things in the old USSR? This is Marxism! Let me show you how.

In the 19th and 20th century was defined as 'the government should own the means of production'.

Now, in the 21st century, American manufacturing has been replaced with a service, innovation and hi-tech economy. Be very careful, the neo-Marxist's slogan is that 'government should own the means of hi-tech R&D.'

Let's face it, all the low-hanging fruit has been picked when it comes to human space travel. To spend a trillion dollars on re-living the dream of planting another flag on the moon is a big waste of taxpayer’s money.

Is a moon colony cost efective? Moon mining, are we nuts?

Zapdoodat
The Republicans have to fess up that they did not stop the illegal activities of the Democrats. The reason. They were afraid of being called names. Names like meanies and racists. Duty takes courage to ignore namecalling.

zapdoodat
thank you for your honesty and objectivity.

here are the latest poll numbers on this.

By a margin of almost two-to-one the American public thinks the government is doing the right thing in investing billions of dollars to try to keep financial institutions and markets secure. Reacting to initial reports of the federal bailout plan over the weekend, 57% said the government was doing the right thing, while 30% said it was doing the wrong thing. At the same time, only 19% of the public believes that the government is currently doing an excellent or good job in handling the financial problems on Wall Street. Support for the administration's plan to bailout many of the nation's troubled financial institutions is largely

http://people-press.org/report/452/public-favors-bailout

here is the real reason for this mess
The country's biggest insurance company, AIG, had to be bailed out by American taxpayers after it defaulted on $14 billion worth of credit default swaps it had made to investment banks, insurance companies and scores of other entities. So much of what's gone wrong with the financial system in the past year can be traced back to credit default swaps, which ballooned into a $62 trillion market before ratcheting down to $55 trillion last week—nearly four times the value of all stocks traded on the New York Stock Exchange. There's a reason Warren Buffett called these instruments "financial weapons of mass destruction." Since credit default swaps are privately negotiated contracts between two parties and aren't regulated by the government, there's no central reporting mechanism to determine their value. That has clouded up the markets with billions of dollars' worth of opaque "dark matter," as some economists like to say. Like rogue nukes, they've proliferated around the world and now lie hiding, waiting to blow up the balance sheets of countless other financial institutions.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/161199

Joycey
huhhh?? any specifics?

joycey
both parties are to blame.

john mccain took money from fannie and freddie and is even invested in it.

it is both dems and repubs.

quit being so partisan.

Jonah...
I agree that the Republicans were in control for 6 of the last 8 years. I can certainly imagine that they did not do all that they could to keep this from happening. However, let's remember what the Dems were doing during that time. I remember many times the Republicans tried to get things done, on a number of issues, and the Dems filibustered. They filibustered a lot. Although the Dems were in the minority, they had enough people to lay waste to the plans of the majority. Now, when principled Republicans do THE RIGHT THING, you call them out for it because they and/or their colleagues didn't do the right thing in the past? The right thing is the right thing. Even if you're for this bailout, which you seem to be, you have to recognize the political gamesmanship of the Dems here. They didn't even attempt to get enough Democrat votes to pass this legislation. 12 members of Barney Franks' committee voted NO. That would have been enough to pass the bill. The Dems who voted no did it so that later they could tell their constituents that they voted no. That's it. When the Republicans saw what was going on, they began to vote NO as well. The Dems were trying to create a situation where they could pass this bill AND hang it around the necks of Republicans, up for re-election, in conservative districts. The Republicans, wisely, refused to play into their hands.

Jonah should name names
Jonah should name those GOP house members who changed their vote because of Pelosi's partisan comments. I heard Rep Shadegg say no one changed their minds (but perhaps their feet got further set in concrete).

Changed minds?
I believe many Republicans who were planning to vote for the bill did not, but they didn't change their minds because of the stated reason. It wasn't because of Pelosi's useless, divisive speech. They changed their minds because they saw the Dems trying to gain political advantage by pinning this bill on Republicans in conservative districts, where the majority of people oppose the legislation.

Ben is right
The Repubicans had no problem passing the items that were important to them.

They increased pork-barrel spending from 3,000 to 14,000 projects a year, they doubled the size of the Department of Education, they added a whole extra layer of entitlement spending, costing $50 billion a year (MedPrescD), they instituted useless ethanol mandates, and we have been in a $120 billion a year social-engineering project in the Middle East for five years that may well last another 100 years. Remember the line, "When the Iraqis stand up, we can stand down?"

Fortunately, all this spending has been paid for with tax cuts and a mountain of debt.

Unfortunately, between 2001 and 2007, oil has gone from $20 a barrel to $100. The dollar has lost half its value against the Euro, and we have doubled the size of the national debt. It took 210 years for the first $5 trillion of debt and just the past seven and half years for the next $5 trillion.

Did the Republicans cut anything from 2001-2007?

Mr. Goldberg - No, they did not.
--
Errs Mr. Goldberg:

"As for the reputedly free-market purists of the congressional GOP, with whom my sympathies generally lie, I cannot let pass without comment the fact that they controlled the legislative branch for most of the last eight years."


Not at goddam all, Mr. Goldberg.

Mr. Goldberg makes the unmitigatedly idiot assumption that the Republican Party is made up uniformly of "free-market purists" when in fact the GOP is *ANYTHING* but a bastion of freedom.

It is not now, and has never, ever been.

The "free-market purists" have been consistently outnumbered and overpowered by what one perceptive commentator has described as "Rotarian Socialism."

(( "Three cheers for free enterprise, and keep them subsidies, parities, quotas, set-asides, tariffs, trade agreements, regulations, and bailouts a-coming!" ))

That's been the Rockefeller Republican line dominating the GOP since they used to call themselves Whigs.

True American conservatives like Barry Goldwater and Ron Paul have *ALWAYS* been a harrassed and belittled minority in the Republican Party, their voices ignored whenever the GOP "court party" functionaries (see http://tinyurl.com/67jbmj ) could shut them up, shut them off, and shut them out.


So "No one is pure," eh, Mr. Goldberg?

Speak for yourself.





=====
"In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for. As for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican."

-- H.L. Mencken

They don't know what they are doing
with OUR money! Get the politicians dirty hands off of this!

Conservative Pundits
continue to eat their own!

Right, wrong, or otherwise, we endure plenty of insults and attacks from the left, and now we have to endure all the TH pundits piling on to tell us it is the Republicans fault or they should at least share the blame.

Add to that the articles calling for Governor Palin to step aside; knowing full well that is not going to happen, if she did it would be political suicide for the Republican party, and we are faced with enormous odds to win the Whitehouse this year.

Thanks Guys, we really appreciate the support and the left is ecstatic with the fodder. They circle the wagons around oblama/biden and you guys are busy chowing down on your own. With friends like you, who needs the left!

Don C

Bev from WA
I agree 100%! We should go to DC with our pitchforks (as mentioned metaphorically by Mr. Goldberg).

Speed #30
It's funny. The Dems never have to worry about reelection because their mindless base just goes out every election day after someone has to remind them that it's election day with their "get out the vote" programs. THey pull that D lever every time. Ignorance is bliss.

Puglousy amd the market close

When you want to think of the lies and almost criminal actions of a political party, think of this. If the Demo members of Barney Franks committee who voted against the bill the other day, had voted YES, it would have passed. They are on now, or off then, whatever Barney wants. Do you think that was their idea? No!

If the bill had passed with most all Demos voting YES, and if it would have worked as planned, the Demos would be thrilled to get all the credit. However, if the Bill would not work as hoped for, they wanted enough Repub. YES votes so that the Demos could then blame the Repub. for passing the bill.

And another thing, why did Puglousy call for the vote before the Markets closed for the day? Anyone familiar with how the Govt. works, and how the media works, and how the Market works, could have said that after the market closed, the huge money lost would not have happened, but Puglousy wanted a market crash.

That stupid act on her watch, cost investors hundreds of billion of dollars, but it served the desires of the Demos.

Have you heard or read of the timing of the Vote, and the Market close, mentioned by anyone but me? Am I right or wrong?

Blood on their hands
First, let me say, the blame for this lies in the democrats court. They created the problem with the CRA, they have been pushing it and expanding it for years, their brownshirt orgs like ACORN have been out strong-arming banks into accepting the lousy mortgages, they blocked all attempts to rein it in over the last several years, they have all enriched themselves at our expense through Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac lobby money.

However...

I keep wondering why the McCain camp isn't ripping into the dems on this. This strikes me as the one issue that could blow the veil of secrecy off the democratic party, and nobody's talking about it. The republican party always has a problem with a difficult message, this one's pretty easy. Mortgage meltdown -> CRA -> democrats. And, ACORN -> Obama.

Please tell me the reason McCain ain't talking about it is not that he took some Fannie/Freddie money too?

There's an old saying - you can't blackmail an honest man. But, you sure can blackmail someone who is just a little bit dishonest, maybe even easier than someone who has made a career out of dishonesty.

I hate to say it, but if my suspicion is right, McCain deserves to lose. As do any republicans who don't start to stand for something.

Oh, don't worry, I'll still vote for him. I just would have liked to believe for once I'm not just voting for the lesser crook.

Gwen Ifill
I just came to know that Ms. Gwen Ifill the moderator for the Vice-Presidential debate, is publishing a book, “The Age of Obama”. This book is to be released on January 20, 2009. I believe this disqualifies Ms. Ifill to be a neutral moderator, and she should be removed as the moderator of the Vice-Presidential debate on Oct. 2, 2008.

shared blame
I would expect the msm to share the blame, but for someone writing on town hall to do the same angers me. If any republican did anything, to either suck money out of fraudulant lending or protecting someone that did, please give us names and dates.

I can get names and dates for Dodd and Franks. How dare you compare us to them? Either put up, or shut up.

BTW, the republican leadership does deserve blame for spinelessness, but every time they tried the nuclear option some rino's would form a gang of something and cut the leadership off at the knees.

Could you give us a list of republicans that got the prefered mortgage rates that Dodd and Obama received?

i cannot believe this
both republicans and democrats (including both obama and mccain) not only took money from fannie and freddie but also are invested in those companies.

now we could quibble over who took more but that isn't the point.

more importantly, there are no facts to back up the idea that the cri was the cause of this.

the wall street journal says 65% of subprime loans qualified for conventional loans but it was the lenders who talked people into arm's or whatever scam they had going.

the latest polls 57% of americans for the bailout and are blaming the republicans for it not passing.


UNFORTUNATELY
It is not all that hard to swallow the fact that blame is able to be spread, I can say this much, Libs and RINO's can take the largest share of this blame for the longest number of years, Republican moderates are just as useless as those aforementioned, they lack spine, the others (L&R) are in your face crooks.

What we lack is enough with spine to assign those with theft tendency a place in the Gray Bar Hotel and that folks is called blame and checkmate.

zapdoodat said...
"The Repubicans had no problem passing the items that were important to them."

Plain and simple. Republicans passed only what the Dems let them pass. Sure, Republicans had the majority and could vote to pass any legislation they could actually get to a vote on. But the Dems disallowed a vote on anything with which they disagreed. The fact is, the Republicans had no problem passing the items that were important to them AND DEMOCRATS.

ben is right
do you even understand how congress works.

the only ones who can schedule votes are the majority and the minority cannot stop a vote pushed by the majority.

the great fannie mae bill never got out committee because of ---wait for it--the republican majority did not vote it out.

no bills related to fannie or freddie were ever filibustered.

that is simply propaganda.

look it up for yourself.

Ben - The bipartisanship of corruption
--
"Ben is right" strikes at a fundamental truth about the set-up in Congress (and therefore in the operations of both the Legislative and the Executive branches of federal goernment) to the effect hat the faction holding majority power in the House and Senate is much less capable of ramrodding its purposes into federal policy than the poorly-informed observer might like to conclude.

Ben says:

"Republicans passed only what the Dems *LET* them pass."

(( emphasis added ))

The real malignancy in our system of government is that the polarity in the Congress is not between freedom and socialism but rather between one species of statist ("government-worshipping") malignancy and another.

Overall, it can be taken for granted that whether a congresscritter hangs an (R) or a (D) after his name, that "malignant jobholder" -

(( see H.L. Mencken ))

- is fully committed to the notion that government knows best.

That government is omniscient, omnipotent, omnibenevolent, and infallible.

And that government should be omnipresent, into every aspect of every single American's life.

His bedroom, his workplace, his wallet, his bloodstream, his speech, and even his thoughts.

This is the truly "bipartisan" consensus informing everything that both Republicans and Democrats do every God-damned day of their lives.

We keep niggling over one species of statism or another here, when the real priority is to determine why and how we need to get rid of the statists altogether.

--

sjdoc
very erudite answer but is not accurate.

the majority schedules votes---period.

i remember the democrat minority wanted to have a hearing on iraq and the republicans would not give them electricity in the room because it was not official business.

in the house the minority party has no power at all.

the senate is a little different but still the majority sets the bills and votes.


SJ Doc
"And that government should be omnipresent, into every aspect of every single American's life."

Are you talking about, that when the Republicans pushed Medicare Prescription, Part D, into law, and put the entire annual $50 billion cost onto the nation's credit card, that an important provision of the law was to make it a felony for an American citizen to shop for the same drug in Canada and save some money?

And why was it important to the Republicans to NOT have the government negotiate low prices on behalf of the American taxpayer?

Shouldn't the free marketer's motto be "what the market will bear", rather than "what the taxpayer will bare?"

Come on, comment please


Reply # 10
Date: Oct 1, 2008 - 12:55 PM EST


Why doesn't anyone have a comment on my post about Puglousy scheduling the vote while the market was still open.

Your comment please

Nice try Goldberg
"Frank, chairman of the House Financial Services Committee, has spent the last few years ridiculing Alan Greenspan, John McCain and others who sought more regulation for Fannie Mae's market-distorting schemes - the fons et origo of this financial crisis."

Nice try. This crisis was caused by subprime loans.

Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are PROHIBITED from buying and selling subprime loans.

Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are PROHIBITED from securitizing subprime loans. They can only buy and securitize, conforming loans, and those are loans to people with good credit. The regulation that was being considered for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac had nothing to do with subprime loans, their securitization, or their triple A rating.

because jim
it means nothing.

they thought they had the votes but the republicans could not produce their share.


joeRP
can you give a source for that.

that is an interesting piece of the puzzle.

joerp here is what happened
The country's biggest insurance company, AIG, had to be bailed out by American taxpayers after it defaulted on $14 billion worth of credit default swaps it had made to investment banks, insurance companies and scores of other entities. So much of what's gone wrong with the financial system in the past year can be traced back to credit default swaps, which ballooned into a $62 trillion market before ratcheting down to $55 trillion last week—nearly four times the value of all stocks traded on the New York Stock Exchange. There's a reason Warren Buffett called these instruments "financial weapons of mass destruction." Since credit default swaps are privately negotiated contracts between two parties and aren't regulated by the government, there's no central reporting mechanism to determine their value. That has clouded up the markets with billions of dollars' worth of opaque "dark matter," as some economists like to say. Like rogue nukes, they've proliferated around the world and now lie hiding, waiting to blow up the balance sheets of countless other financial institutions.


http://www.newsweek.com/id/161199

christianlib
This is one of many sources:

http://www.businessweek.com/investing/insights/blog/archive s/2008/09/fannie_mae_and.html

But it is common knowledge. The fact is, private mortgage lenders invented gimmicks whereby they could make subprime loans without incurring any risk. And so subprime loans exploded. This occurred from 2002-2006.

With proper oversight, these gimmicks would not have been allowed.

None of this has anything to do with Fannie or Freddie, or legislation pertaining to Fannie and Freddie, or any legislation that is decades old.

This problem started in 2002, and has to do with the lack of oversight of private mortgage lenders who found ways to circumvent the free market.

Christianlib
""both parties are to blame.

john mccain took money from fannie and freddie and is even invested in it.""


While technically true, this sentence is very misleading. Yes McCain has gotten money from fan/fred, So did Every other senator/congresscritter on both sides.

You failed to mention the AMOUNT of money he received. So I'll do it for ya.

In the past 10 years the top 3 recipients of fan/fred money have been as follows.

Chris Dodd $165,400
Barack Obama $126,349
John Kerry $111,000

In that same 10 year period John Mccain received a total of $21,550.

The amazing thing is Obama has only been in the senate for 4 years (2 of them running for President full time) This means, in 4 short years, he's become the #2 favorite of Fannie/Freddie. ($31,587.25 per year! as opposed to $2,155/year for McCain)

How did Obama go from unknown to the Darling of fan/fred? I'll leave that to your imagination.

Don't believe my numbers?

I have it all laid out on my blog with links to opensecrets.org which is totally nonpartisan, and is Loaded with information on how to Follow the Money.

Oh there's also a very revealing video that the Obama "truth squad" has been trying to ban all over the net, because it shows Exactly WHO helped create this mess with plenty of Facts to back it up.

This will eventually come to light as a Huge failure of Democratic "Social Engineering", My only hope is that it comes to light Before the election.

Now, prove me wrong if you can please. :o)





christianlib - Yes, the majority...
--
...can behave high-handedly in Congress, but that does nothing to detract from the ability of "the loyal opposition" to obstruct, and thus at the very least to gain concessions to the advantage of their own constituencies (and in this regard I speak beyond the scope of legislative district or state).

If "the minority party has no power at all," however, how is it that the National Socialists managed to completely block Crash Test Johnny's legislation (the Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005) and thus maliciously prevent even a temporizing address of the many problems with the GSEs that have recently been coming to the point of inescapable criticality?

Though I do not propose that the Republicans be let off scot-free for their conduct during the recent years in which they dominated the Congress, I do *NOT* concede either that the National Socialists were guiltless, or that they would not have screwed things up even more abysmally had they been in control.

The problem is never with "one or the other," but rather with both.

All year and every year, all the time, and in every possible way.



=====
"The first and most important thing to understand about politics is this: forget Right, Left, Center, socialism, fascism, or democracy. Every government that exists — or ever existed, or ever will exist — is a kleptocracy, meaning 'rule by thieves'. Competing ideologies merely provide different excuses to separate the Productive Class from what they produce. If the taxpayer/voters won't willingly fork over to end poverty, then maybe they'll cough up to fight drugs or terrorism. Conflicting ideologies, as presently constituted, are nothing more than a cover for what's really going on, like the colors of competing gangs."

-- L. Neil Smith

Start small
If there's a solution to this, it's the American consumer's resolve to remain committed to his local community and shut off his support for the outside. You can call it isolationism all you want; but it's clear Americans' priorities have been perverted for about 19 yeras. We must produce here and sell here and elsewhere, or else we're doomed!

No amount of fiat will overcome the incompetence in our capitol halls. It's time to start the revolution at home.

zapdoodat mistakes me for a Republican
--
Risibly, zapdoodat asks:

"...why was it important to the Republicans to NOT have the government negotiate low prices on behalf of the American taxpayer?"


Because the Republicans belong to America's "court party," and they are entirely the bought dogs of the established actors in the U.S. economy.

Remember H.L. Mencken?

"In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for. As for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican."


I'm a conservative, son. Not a Republican.






=====
"Apparently millions continue to harbor the strange delusion that the Republican party is the party of free enterprise, and, at least since the New Deal, the party of conservatism. In fact, the party is and always has been the party of state capitalism. That, along with the powers and perks it provides its leaders, is the whole reason for its creation and continued existence. By state capitalism I mean a regime of highly concentrated private ownership, subsidized and protected by government. The Republican party has never, ever opposed any government interference in the free market or any government expenditure except those that might favour labour unions or threaten Big Business."

-- Clyde Wilson ( http://tinyurl.com/67jbmj )

Bailout
Where is the OUTRAGE ???

Some people steal “7” BILLION dollars and all congress wants to do is let the taxpayers pay the bill.

Scooter Libby was on trial for three years about a conversation with a reporter. They knew he did not leak the leak but they found him guilty anyway.

Two Border Patrol Agents shot an ILLEGAL ALIEN and both went to jail for 10 years.

Somebody steals 700 BILLION dollars and nobody cares.

Seems to me like a lot of people should have ALL their assets frozen and a lot of people should go to jail.

Why should the taxpayers pay the mortgage for people who could not qualify for a loan in the first place.

Does Bush understand what happened ?? I doubt it. Nobody tells the TRUTH.

McCain our Republican leader says let the taxpayers foot the bill.

Why would any Republican vote for McCain. Maybe Sarah Palin, but not McCain.

Where are the federal investigators???

No fence.. Nobody cares about illegal aliens. And congress wants the taxpayers to pay the 700 BILLION that somebody stole.

Doing right is simple
But can be difficult to do the right thing.

We can leave the impossible things up to God (Deuteronomy 29:29), like running the universe.

If America doesn't turn to God you can expect to see disaster heaped on disaster.

NYC area is overdue for an earth quake.

East coast earth quakes cover much wider areas as the plate is in one big piece and not broken up.

The same 1886 magnitude VII quake that hit Charleston and left 40,000 homeless, if it were to hit NYC would kill thousands.

They aren't sure if NYC is overdue for a 400 year earth quake or not. The records don't go back far enough.

Who Are You People
Who are you people who want to give the Republian Party a pass on this mortgage mess? True, there were some Republicans warning about the danger in which we were placing the economy, but obviously not enough of their colleagues were listening. Jonah Goldberg is righ about one thing, the Republicans controlled Congress for six of the last eight years. They could have done something, had they wanted. And where was President Bush? He certainly wasn't leading the charge aginst the ridiculous pratices going on at Fannie and Freddie.

Wake up people! The Republicans have become nothing more than Democrat light. Let's get some real conservatives.

OPPOSE THE SOCIALIST RESCUE PLAN
Americans Beware…OPPOSE THE SOCIALIST RESCUE PLAN

Stop all this madness! As citizens, we understand the crisis at hand, but we should not support a solution that consolidates power in the federal government as the only way to stave off a complete economic meltdown.

We should be urging Congress to slow down and consider the other free-market solutions that don’t march us off the cliff to socialism and bigger government, both of which I believe must be avoided at all costs; for if we do not, America is doomed to socialism and even bigger government; with ever bigger pork-barrel earmarks. Which means higher taxes for everybody, that will led to a global depression.

We understand this is a complex issue. That’s why we needn’t rush into any solutions that could prove far more costly, in more ways than one, to our nation in the long run.

The FED (Democrats & Republicans) got us into this mess and now they want to get us out of it, but only if they can use it for “PORK’N”; hold on to your wallets. One TRILLON is only the beginning of what will be America’s final downfall. They are a bunch of hypocrites and traitors to the principles that makes America the greatest nation on earth. Many should go to jail or at least lose their job; still many more should resign; for they let this happen under their watch.

“WE THE PEOPLE” must take action and prevent this cure from becoming worse than the disease. For if we do nothing, we will have no one to blame but ourselves. Phone, fax, e-mail, write, and sound-off; let your elected officials at all levels of government know how you feel. Stand-up and fight for your liberty and freedom from a government for the few, at the expense of the many.

For Joe-Tax-Payer…to be required to pickup the total cost tab on this mess, is WRONG!!!

http://nkqx57a.blogtownhall.com/2008/09/27/americans_beware %e2%80%a6oppose_the_socialist_rescue_plan.thtml


a pox on all those people in congress
Jonah; As you said, when you were talking to Glen Beck, Harry Reid should be tied to post and let hungry weasels eat his innards. And Nancy Pelosi should be put on a stake. We are being robbed and there's nothing we can do about it. Why? it's because people in their districts keep voting them in and the people not of their district can go pound sand. Harry Reid went to Washington to do good, and man, he's done very well, indeed. Nancy Pelosi went to Washington to do good, and man, with her help, her husbands company got sweetheart deals from congress. I can go down the list from there, but I just don't have enough room. And there is nothing we the people can do about it, because they cover each other's a$$.

PORK IS IN THE BILL, OF COURSE...
Not surprsingly, the legislators used a Jewish holiday to load the bailout bill with pork!

Throw the bums out - anyone of either party who votes for the bill. There is NO excuse for the pork they put in the legislation. We shouldn't have a bailout anyway, just let the chips fall where they may and "cull the economic herd." Inserting pork reveals the true character of these characters.

After the January 20th inauguration, Obama will start collecting your guns. We have until then to move to Alaska or Texas and secede from the Union:

http://colony14.net/id11.html

...and I'm SERIOUS.

That's it....
Time for the pitchforks.

Don - Oh, that's so goyish of you!
--
Observes Don:

"Not surprsingly, the legislators used a Jewish holiday to load the bailout bill with pork!"


By that token, son, *EVERY* day's a Jewish holiday in Congress.





=====
Hitler went to a palmist who studied the Führer's hands, carefully looking for some sign of the future. She looked up at him finally, pointing to a small line, saying, "mein Führer, you are going to die on a Jewish holiday."

His curiosity piqued, he asked, "Which one?"

She answered, "Any day you die will be a Jewish holiday."

-- Anonymous (myriad sources)
Sign Up to Post Your CommentsSign Up to Post Your Comments
If you are already registered, click here to login. Otherwise, please take a few seconds to register with Townhall.com. Once you sign up, you’ll be able to post your comments immediately, use the action center, get podcasts, and more!
Note: Fields marked with a red asterisk (*) are required.
Salutation:
First Name:
*
Last Name:
*
Email:
*
Nickname:
*
Note: Nick name will be shown when you post comments.
Address 1:
*
Address 2:
City:
*
State:
*
Zip:
*
Phone:
      
Your daily must-read of conservative columns, cartoons and news. Coulter, Sowell, Krauthammer and more.
(Bi-Weekly) We highlight the best opportunities from our partners for surveys, action items and more.