Townhall.com, Where Your Opinion Counts
Talk Radio:   Bill Bennett   Mike Gallagher   Dennis Prager   Michael Medved   Hugh Hewitt   
BREAKING NEWS  LeftArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican   RightArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican  
Columns, funnies & more in your inbox!
  • Check the boxes and send us your email address to receveive your free newsletter
  • Your daily must-read of conservative columns, cartoons and news. Coulter, Sowell, Krauthammer and more.
  • Townhall.com’s weekly inside scoop on what’s happening behind the scenes in the world of politics. When news breaks, we report.
  • Signup to receive the latest daily Townhall cartoons
Friday, June 13, 2008
Jonah Goldberg :: Townhall.com Columnist
ANWR Not the Frosty Paradise It's Cracked Up To Be
by Jonah Goldberg
Vote on It:
Average Vote:
[+] Text [-]
 
Poll
Will the Dems' health care Christmas Present to America be an improvement or detriment to our health care system?


Sen. John McCain said this week he would not drill in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge for the same reason he "would not drill in the Grand Canyon ... I believe this area should be kept pristine."

Pristine means unspoiled, virginal, in an original state.

One wonders how pristine the Grand Canyon can be if it has roughly 5 million visitors every year, rafting, hiking, picnicking and riding mules up one side and down the other. Campfires, RVs and motels that do not conjure the word "virginal" ring around large swaths of it.

This isn't to say that the Grand Canyon isn't a beautiful place; it inspires awe among those who visit it. ANWR (pronounced "AN-wahr) inspires awe almost entirely in those who haven't been there. It is an environmental Brigadoon or Shangri-La, a fabled land almost no one will ever see. That is its appeal. People like the idea that there are still Edens "out there" even if they will never, ever see them.

Indeed, if Americans could visit the north coast of Alaska, as I have, as easily as they can visit the Grand Canyon, the oil would be flowing by now.

ANWR is roughly the size of South Carolina, and it is spectacular. However, the area where, according to Department of Interior estimates, some 5.7 billion to 16 billion barrels of recoverable oil reside is much smaller and not necessarily as awe-inspiring. It would amount to the size of Dulles airport.

Question for McCain: Has South Carolina been ruined because it has an airport?

Most of the images of the proposed drilling area that people see on the evening news are misleading precisely because they tend to show the glorious parts of ANWR, even though that's not where the drilling would take place. Even when they position their cameras in the right location, producers tend to point them in the wrong direction. They point them south, toward the Brooks mountain range, rather than north, across the coastal plain where the drilling would be.

In summer, the coastal plain is mostly mosquito-plagued tundra and bogs. (The roughnecks at Prudhoe Bay joke that "life begins at 40" - because at 40 degrees, clouds of mosquitoes and other pests take flight from the ocean of puddles). In the winter, it reaches 70 degrees below zero (not counting wind chill, which brings it to 120 below) and is in round-the-clock darkness.

A few years back, Jimmy Carter wrote of proposed drilling in ANWR in the New York Times: "The roar alone - of road-building, trucks, drilling and generators - would pollute the wild music of the Arctic and be as out of place there as it would be in the heart of Yellowstone or the Grand Canyon."

The roads are made from ice, hence constructed in winter, doing no permanent damage to the environment. As for the discordant notes such activity would introduce to the Arctic symphony, I don't know whether a falling tree makes a sound if no one is there to hear it, but I suspect that the "wild music" of the Arctic in winter is only euphonious to those - like Carter - who are not actually there to hear it.

Even in summer, people who actually live on the north coast of Alaska, like the residents of Kaktovik (just three miles north of the coastal plain where drilling might take place) overwhelmingly think good jobs in their backyard is music to their ears.

Meanwhile, is the "music" of the Grand Canyon really so pristine? Babies crying, kids chasing lizards, campers laughing, donkeys braying, cars honking: Why does this not trouble the consciences of Carter and McCain?

Perhaps it's because the analogy between ANWR and the Grand Canyon is spurious on its face. "Pristine," after all, is not synonymous with beautiful (there are ugly virgins), and "well-trafficked" is not the same as ugly (millions of people have seen the Sistine Chapel).

Indeed, before the age of environmental Romanticism had captured elite opinion in this country, such analogies didn't pass the laugh test. Both the New York Times and Washington Post editorial boards enthusiastically supported drilling in ANWR in the late 1980s. The Post noted that the area "is one of the bleakest, most remote places on this continent, and there is hardly any other where drilling would have less impact on surrounding life. ..." To say such things today is to unforgivably pollute the inane music of groupthink. And that's something even the "maverick" McCain will not do.

Share:
Vote on It:
Average Vote:
 
About The Author
Jonah Goldberg is editor-at-large of National Review Online.
 
TOWNHALL DAILY: Be the first to read Jonah Goldberg's column. Sign up today and receive Townhall.com daily lineup delivered each morning to your inbox.
ANWAR IS AN EXCUSE
It has always been just an excuse.

Not only would any oil wells not be in a "scenic area" like the Brooks Range, Oil wells are no longer the big wooden towers you used to see 50 years ago. We have oil wells in the Uinta mountain range you wouldn't even know were there if you were half a block away from them.

ANWAR is just another "snail darter", "spotted owl" anything to prevent development of a badly needed energy source by the self hating, "blame America crowd".

They say they are for the "little guy" even as they stomp on his toes. They are actually hatefull, vicious and selfish.

McCain
won't drill ANWR because he "is a a$$."

A hundred million cars run on gasoline and use oil. Hydrogen, electricity, wind and water aren't going to operate them.

Why didn't Reagan drill? Why wasn't that Bubba ninkompoop's 1995 veto overridden? And I suppose McCain will rush back to the Senate to help uphold Reid's holdup on the latest energy bill. Quick! Be nice to the Dems! Maybe they'll be nice to us!

Want to make a difference?
go to: http://www.americansolutions.com

Over 500,000 people have now signed the petition to DRILL HERE, DRILL NOW, PAY LESS!

Wally
I am among the signatories.

Do you think it will make a %$#* bit of difference? The Politburo will just ignore the petitions and the useful idiots will vote them back in.


McCain's Cluelessness
Pristine ANWR, global warming (climate change), immigration reform, CEO pay controls, offshore-drilling restrictions--oh boy, where does it end? Good old Thomas Sowell tells me I should vote for McCain because he'll continue fighting in Iraq. Until we achieve--what? Or maybe we need a "Republican" prez to keep libs from taking over Supreme Court. With overwhelming Demo Congress, another Souter is about as "conservative" as you can hope for.
Forget it.

ANWR
Others may want to send a similar message to their Representatives! They have done nothing for 35 years now! Turn up the heat! (Pun intended)
Ken


Senator,
Here is a thought to ponder: "One wonders how pristine the Grand Canyon can be if it has roughly 5 million visitors every year, rafting, hiking, picnicking and riding mules up one side and down the other. Campfires, RVs and motels that do not conjure the word "virginal" ring around large swaths of it." Jonah Goldberg TownHall.

I am a resident of Oro valley and I have spent 2 years living and working in Alaska from 1967 to 1969. This was during the North Slope Alask pipeline build. The same things you are saying now were said then and more. That pipeline has been a boom to Alaska and its people and a benefit to all of America without any ecological disasters or even near disasters occurring.

We need to have America declare a "WAR ON ENERGY" and proceed by drilling everywhere, beginning coal to liquid gas projects, shale oil recovery, natural gas exploration and use and nuclear (which will facilitate the heating processes necessary for some of the other projects as a by product).

By doing this we will have more than enough energy for over 200 years or more and we can at the same time as we go flat out to capture this energy also immediately expand the infrastructure to accommodate existing alternative fuels usage while we continue to develop new ecologically friendly and renewable resources.

WHAT WE DO NOT NEED IS NOT TO USE WHAT GOD HAS GIVEN THE USA AND COMPLAIN AND TAX OURSELVES TO DEATH WHILE OTHERS EAT OUR LUNCH( China comes to mind)



Pristine wilderness

Congress is debating drilling in these reserve areas again and now there is a blast of columns in favor of drilling this is one example. Yesterdays argument was that China is drilling off Florida and getting our oil. All designed to build support for going for the oil in reserves and offshore.
On the topic of China Drilling off Florida.

The China things seems to be the Republicans says China's there but Floridians, who should know plus others say no.

Here is one definitely right wing and says Chinas drilling
http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/china_starts_oil_dril ling.htm

Heres one that says its not true.
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/story/40776.html

Then some quotes I copied form the Web/....
from the Miami Herald.
No one can prove that the Chinese are drilling anywhere off Cuba's shoreline. The China-Cuba connection is "akin to urban legend," said Sen. Mel Martinez, a Republican from Florida, (

And another
"China is not drilling in Cuba's Gulf of Mexico waters, period," said Jorge Pinon, an energy fellow with the Center for Hemispheric Policy at the University of Miami and an expert in oil exploration in the Gulf of Mexico.

We were taken to war on rumors and unsubstantiated information. Now another major decision is about to be made. I am very concerned about the way this country is now going make major decision. Spreading rumors to make the public swing over to support an action that may not be the best in the interest of the country. Looks like a repeat of Iraq

This is one issue that should be able to be answered. An oil drilling rig is too big to hide.






Symbolic power struggle
I think this one is just a purely symbolic power struggle for both sides. Im not an environmental engineer but its probably possible to recover the oil under ANWR without destroying any of the wilderness, however I am skeptical that sufficient care would be taken if the oiler-developers 100% got their way. Opposition to drilling here is symbolic. But the same can be said of the other side too. The amount of oil under the ANWR is not such a gigantic find, really just a drop in the bucket wrt the big picture and will not make a significant contribution to achieving energy independence for North America. Alberta oil sands will accomplish that, making Northern Alberta both the richest and ugliest place on the planet in 30 years. The ANWR dispute is purely about showing who has more political muscle, oil or greens, and a big yawn from me to both sides equally.

Chick-pea floats another red hearing
What the news agencies have stated is that China has signed an agreement with Cuba to start drilling. They haven't started yet but plan to soon.

Why haven't you and the rest of the watermellons been out protesting and sending letters and calls to Washington about the Chinese?

Jonah and other posters are right
People like chick-pea and cam-nut have never cared a whoot about the environment. It is all about communism and controlling the lives of the rest of us.

Challenge
Over the last 20 years or so, domestic oil production in the US has fallen from about 9 million bbl/day to about 5 lillion. Can anyone present a logical defense of this as a way to attain energy independence?

Anwar is the environmentalists...
baby seal pups. I agree with wally. It is there poster picture for much of their fundraising efforts. How would they raise money then?

I say drill here, drill now! It's NOT going to harm the environment!

Well Said, Mr. Goldberg
You have stated, in much better terms, what others have been trying to say. Unfortunately, those who need to hear are deaf to reason.

Rustynail

Gingrich: Three ways to reduce the cost

What do you think?

HOTAIR-We cannot drill our way out of this,” Pelosi reminds us. True enough. If we only drill in ANWR, if we continue to decline to exploit ocean reserves and the mind-boggling amount of oil shale available to us, then it’s true, drilling won’t do much good. And since we can’t solve the problem solely by drilling, why bother trying to solve it in part, no? A lefty friend made the argument to me today that rising gas prices are actually sort of a virtue because the higher they go the more we’ll be forced to carpool and use public transportation, and the more that’ll wean us from our oil dependency. To which I reply, sounds like a fine idea for a campaign platform. Let His Holiness run on the idea: $10 a gallon and carpools for everyone. He seems to be open to suggestion; let’s see what that considerable charm of his can accomplish when he really puts it to use. Yes we can be crippled by inflation.

watch

http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/gingrich-three-way s-to-reduce-the-cost-of-oil


More lies pushed by Fox
The first one they have been repeating for several days now is: Deos must allow more drilling and Repubs must also endorse conservation and alternates. Favt: The 2005 Republican energy bill included both of these liberal things but did not include the drilling because the Dems and a few RINOs like McLame blocked it.

The second one: McLame has changed his mind and says we should drill.

McCame still sides with the Dems as of yesterday.

wonderful!
He is a millionaire by hook and crook. Gas at $4.20 a gallon does not bother him, but there are people who actually work for a living that can NOT afford that. Way to hear the voters and NOT win an election McQuack. As I have said all along, Obambi (or the missus more likley) will have to screw up big time to lose.

http://www.audacityofhypocrisy.com/

http://eclipptv.com/viewVideo.php?video_id=956&title=Vietn am_Veterans_Against_McCain&vpkey=62acaf320c

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.htm l
Free Ramos and Compean

My Front Yard
I have a nice front yard that after mowing could be called "pristine"...HOWEVER, should an oil company choose to drill on this pristine area of Central Kansas and I be paid handsomely for the same, I would not only not object, I would encourage the effort...same applies to my likewise "Pristine" back yard...harumph...

Finley
That is EXACTLY what the problem is. The liberal watermellons will not allow them to drill in YOUR front yard.

They will not let YOU drill in YOUR front yard.

...this area should be kept pristine
The Grand Canyon is no more pristine then a 70 years old widow. Whether on the North or South edge it has extensive tourist constructions. It has trails to the bottom and rafting on the bottom. It has two dams. There is an eco argument about how to regulate outflow from Glen Canyon dam to approach a "pristine" canyon.

I agree with McCain; I wouldn't drill in the Grand Canyon either. Probably no oil there. On the other hand if we are to keep ANWAR as pristine as the Grand Canyon we need to build tourist constuctions that are far more intrusive than oil wells and the piping that connects them to the Alaskan pipeline.

McCain is an example of the glib-lib living-in-your-head the blinds the view of what is real.

Florida
I live in FL and let me tell you why they dont want drilling here.

Their ENVIRO buddies are buyingup all the coastal areas on the Gulf side and building MILLION DOLLAR CONDOS and God forbid anyone be able to see a OIL RIG from their MILLION DOLLAR CONDOS. If you come to the Gulf in my area ST Petersburg and see what they have done you would be angry. They are building Copndos so close togeather that you cant even get to the BEECHES in some areas. They are in it for the MONEY,GREENBACK, DOLLAR and could care less if we had trillions of Barrels of oil out there.
There are many Buildings/Condos being built on the GULF COAST that today are standing there EMPTY and why, because people cant afford them. My question is why build things that you cant sell just to make excuses not to drill.

Im a REP and both of my SENATORS need to be DEFEATED and put someone in here that actually cares about the PEOPLE OF FLORIDA, Soon they want have a chopice if we keep up the Pressure on them.

We need to treat this DRILLING like we did the AMNESTY BILL they tried to pass.

Another Problem I see is that they dont care in this DO NOTHING D$M LED CONGRESS when EUROPEANS are calling us a bunch of cry babies because they are paying $7 dollars a gallon now. I could care less what the rest of the World thinks about us for we did not becime a COUNTRY by the way other countries whine about us.\

ALAH AKBAR MY SOON TO BE CONVERTED MUSLIM AMIGOS
ALAH AKBAR.

We will be going back top the early 30s soon
I am going to buy me a CAMEL with 2 humps since I still have a family to take care of. We wont be able to go back to the HORSE and BUGGY because ENVIROS will complain that the HORSE is being treated badly because it has to pull a BUGGY in this new GLOBULL WARMING ARENA. LOTS of luck.

They Don't Work for the People
These two parties and their candidates will not secure the southern border, even though 80% of the people want it secured, and they will not drill in ANWAR even though 57% and rising want it drilled. I don't know who they work for, but it certainly isn't the people.

wally
done! and I ask every one I mailed to do the same.


Libs, awful early in the AM for this crap. Do you get up hating America? Do you think they go to sleep hating America?

Drilling On Federal / State Lands
The majority of the land that the drilling would be done is not in fact owned by Government, but by "We The People". The political-hacks Americans have elected to public office need to be reminded that "Government" owns nothing and that their specific job discriptions are to do as they are told by "We The People".
The Washington "K-Street crowd" and the "Enviro Lunatics" would profit hugely from a boiling tar and feather enema, as would those elected officials to stupid or corrupt to listen to what they are being directed to do. Americans have to come to the realization that this Country does not have to answer to the Federal Government; the Federal Government must answer to the Constitutional will of "We The People".
Nasty Aggressive Grass-Roots Activism scares the arrogance and hubris right out of Politicians, at every level. Few Politicians have any interest in having to go back to working for a living. Constant, Resolute, Ugly "Back Home" hell raising works wonders on an *sshat Politicians bad attitude.
Don't vote for the scumbags that don't listen. Call them up and raise hell. Put them on notice and then vote them out of office. Force your States to pass Re-Call legislation, if you don't already have it. You will be told it won't work on Federal representatives. Federal Legislators are elected at the State level. Read the Constitution and beat the *astards to death with it. This Country does not belong to the cretins that infest Washington; it belongs to "We The People". It's about time we started acting like it.
If McCain wants to be President - he needs to start acting Presidential; That means shut-up and listen to what "We The People" tell him. If he can't do that, he doesn't deserve to be a Senator, much less President.
This OUR Country - it's time we took it back.

Dwain Cleveland

Want $10 a gallon gas?
Keep electing Democrats!

ANWR Exploration
House Republicans:91%Supported
House Democrats: 86% Opposed

Coal-to-Liquid
House Republicans: 97% Supported
House Democrats: 78% Opposed

Oil Shale Exploration
House Republicans: 90% Supported
House Democrats: 86% Opposed

Outer Continental Shelf (OCS) Exploration
House Republicans: 81% Supported
House Democrats: 83% Opposed

Refinery Increased Capacity
House Republicans: 97% Supported
House Democrats: 96% Opposed

ANWR May Not Survive The Election
All it will take is $5 a gallon gas the send the likes of Obama and McCain to the grandstand. Overnight both houses of Congress will come up with a bill to allow drilling anywhere and everywhere. As a matter of fact, events are quickly overtaking both parties. Obama last week was still talking about healing the earth and some such nonsense. He sounded absolutly absurd when brought into the context of 25% energy inflation. By the end of summer there will be little talk of cap and trade and caribou if gas prices hit $5 a gallon.

But I may be giving both parties too much credit. If niether party or candidate responds correctly to this run-up in energy prices, you may see a third candidate enter the race.

McCain Won't Drill in ANWR
Senator McCain has my vote this November, but I disagree with him on not drilling in ANWR. We have a chance to become foreign oil independent (free from OPEC) and he doesn't want us to? Why? Is he afraid that ANWR will become polluted with drilling? Doesn't he realize that OPEC will continue to rape the Americans while we have a lot of oil available for drilling in our own backyard? Come on Senator McCain, show some of your gumption and allow us to drill in ANWR so we can become OPEC independent. If you change your mind it shows that you have taken the initiative and realized that the American public realizes that we need to be independent from the claws of OPEC!

chickaree
China's drilling off the coast of Cuba -- whether true or not -- is not the main issue. We need to drill because we need the oil; it's so obvious that I can't believe it has to be pointed out to some people. Norway, Denmark, and Holland, those bastions of loony leftist wingnuts, are drilling off-shore. Brazil is drilling off-shore and it's paying off Big Time. Everybody is drilling off-shore except US.

And WHY, in this debate, do the green wackos NEVER consider the risk of oil spills from TRANSPORTING all that oil from halfway around the world?? My understanding is that the risk of oil spills from transporting oil is 13 times GREATER than from drilling off-shore locally and transporting the oil a very short distance. Another thing: why are oil spills the ONLY catastrophes that must NEVER be allowed to happen, no matter what? People die in cars by the thousands every day, yet we still drive (until the gasoline runs out, that is). But an oil spil?? Nooooo, FAR BETTER to finance world terrorism and become a third world country than to let a drop of oil pollute our Beloved Mother Gaia. But guess what? The biggest source of oil leaks is NATURAL seepage. Yup, that's right, Gaia pollutes herself more than we do. This INSANITY MUST STOP! DRILL NOW, DRILL HERE, PAY LESS!

Democrats and scarcity
If the Democrats were put in charge of the Sahara desert - there would be a shortage of sand within 5 years.

Democrats would then declare sand as an endangered vital natural 'resource' and demand that the sand be returned to its natural habitat - spending trillions replacing it.

The Democrats would issue 'sand subsidies' to all Democratic officials and 'sand welfare stamps' to all Democrat voters.

The Democrats exhibiting the same assertive, self-involved shallowness of liberals would declare 'We saved sand' while conservatives just stood by and ignored the crisis.

Democrats would then say "Ask not what your country can do for your wallet, ask what your wallet can do for the country."

This country is so over
I don't know how long it will take, but we have built the foundations for the sure collapse of this once great nation, the USA.

This country's greatness has depended on a basic moral compass. We have lost that - now anything goes, and gay "marriage" is just a small step in that direction.

We were made great by our incredible rugged individualism, which led us into the Industrial Revolution, and the highest standard of living in the history of the world. Now it looks like we want the government to take care of us, cradle to grave, without any personal responsibility from individuals.

Our military is by far the greatest fighting force the world has ever seen, yet we shackle them with not one Commander in Chief, but 435 co-CiCs and now, we just added 9 more co-CiCs. You will NEVER win a battle with so many chiefs.

To top all of that, we now worship, rather than assume dominion over, that planet. From a theism that worshiped THE God, we now assign godlike status to THINGS like the earth, trees, and ANWR.

We are sunk. Like DeGaulle once said of Brazil, we are not a serious country.

Obamanisim the Wright Stuff
Why settle for mere Socialism? Obama '08'.

Obama will deliver 'Hopiate for the Masses'.


Why McCain Will Lose
It's idiocy like this which will make Barack Obama the next president of this once great country. John McCain has sold out to the media and the liberals one time too many, but while they may love him for it, they'll never vote for him because of it. All he does with stupid statements like refusing to drill in ANWR because it is "pristine" is reinforce the fact that he is out of touch with reality.

But what else would you expect from on overpaid millionaire dimwit who thinks the way to stop the influence of special interests is to pass a law regulating their spending rather than expecting even a shred of integrity from the people who actually swore to serve this nation?

John McCain makes George W. Bush look like a real conservative, and for that alone, he will lose come November.

Insult to our intelligence
I find it hard to believe that McCain has actually used that boneheaded Grand Canyon analogy AGAIN! One would hope that someone would have pulled him aside the first time and told him how unfathomably stupid he sounded.

Maybe it’s a case of “you had to be there.” Is it possible Johnny Mac has never seen the vast wasteland of ANWR? Just as ObamaNation continues to talk like a real jack@$$ about Iraq because he never bothers to actually go there and see for himself the great work done by our troops, it may be that McCain’s position on ANWR is born of sheer ignorance.

On the other hand, it could be that I’m just being too generous, and they both really are that obtuse.

Easy way to get drilling in ANWR:
You want drilling in ANWR and everywhere else we have oil? Here's a simple way to do it:

Exile every man, woman, and child who stupidly believes that drilling in ANWR would "ruin" its "pristine" scenery to live there. Permanently.

Problem solved.

Retired Geek
I've asked you this before - can you source your figures so that we can use them?

McCain doublespeak
I saw McCain on a townhall meeting last night, carried on Fox News, where he spoke passionately about America becoming energy independent.

How can he say he's strongly in favor of energy independence on the one hand while maintaining he won't touch ANWR on the other?

It boggles the mind.

on whether China is drilling
chicaree, Neal Boortz on todays "Nuze" posted a China drilling timeline.

http://boortz.com/nuze/index.html

It looks very clear that China has obtained the right to drill. Whether they are at this moment drilling or not is anothe question.

Contrast that to the US though. We don't have the right to drill in the area that Cuba is leasing to China.

Politicians
None have ever been to ANWAR. Keep it pristine, how would they ever know?

It's all a big joke and it's on us, the taxpayers.

The big "CHANGE" that BO talks about, would be doing something right, like drillig for oil in our country.

Curious
I'd like to hear an opposing argument on this.

Drilling in ANWR and offshore is just dripping with common sense. I'm just curious to see what an opposing argument would look like.

To back up Vic's post #31
After spending a total of 3 minutes of research on the web. Here are three articles about China/Cuba deals to drill of Cuba's coast. They may not being doing it right now but they are planning to do so. I don't see the difference if it happen now or if it will happen in 2 years they polan to do it. Drill Here! Drill Now! Pay Less!!

I chose MSM links so the Libs couldn't say it was never reported.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/09/washington/09drill.html?e i=5090&en=563832c03aa05a97&ex=1304827200&adxnnl=1&partner=r ssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=all&adxnnlx=1185200154-BjbnQP 6l8aWiaIRj2HFyUA

http://money.cnn.com/2006/05/09/news/economy/oil_cuba/index .htm


http://www.globalexchange.org/countries/americas/cuba/3924. html

Spell check on my post #40
"in 2 years they polan to do it. " Should read
"in 2 years they plan to do it." I have no idea what a polan is or if they even have one..

Sorry!

I'm reminded of the movie, Patton.
In that biopic, a column of American troops was held up - stalled on a narrow road while German planes strafed it, killing our troops.

Patton weaved his Jeep to the front of the line only to find a couple of Jackasses sitting down, stopping all progress.

In a rage, Patton yelled at the lead troops; "you're holding up this column for a couple of jackasses!?" He then pulled out his pistol and dropped them faster than used condoms. He then had his people throw the carcasses over the side of the bridge, and the column proceeded.

Too bad we don't have a Patton running for president. If we did, people would not suffer, we'd have our own oil, and progress toward victory would be made.

And Jacksasses wouldn't dare sit down in the road.

We now have a bunch of jackasses are sitting down, blocking the road, and two of them are running for president. Then again, a majority of voters want that.


Jeffrey
writes, "How can he say he's strongly in favor of energy independence on the one hand while maintaining he won't touch ANWR on the other?"

McCain is for everything good, like apple pie and pristine wilderness areas and against anything bad, like energy dependence on terrorist states. There is absolutely no conflict in his mind. He is a politician extraordinaire. You may soon learn many more examples of his decision making process as commander in chief of our armed forces and chief executive of the federal bureaucracy.

No Takers?
No one wants to put up an argument against drilling in ANWR?

Huh, so WTF is the holdup??

ANWR
This column is a distraction from the real issue. ANWR was land dedicated by Congress as a wildlife refuge, not a national park like the Grand Canyon which encourages visitors while attempting to preserve as much of the natural beauty as is possible when man lays his heavy footprint on the land.

A wildlfe refuge, by its very nature, discourages man's footprint while encouraging the natural state where wildlife can flourish. It matters not that the environment is hostile to humans, the land was set aside for the wildlife preservation, not the whims of tourism and commercialism. It may not be a paradise for humans, but it is for caribou, polar bear, artic fox, and numerous species of birds.

So, the real issue is precedent. If we're going to drill in a federally protected area, does that mean that in 10 years, if the price of electricity rises expotentially, that we tap the Old Faithful Geyser in Yellowstone for its geothermal energy?

ANWR will be drilled eventually because it is some of the last remaining easy oil that is logistically sound to extract economically, while causing a minimum of environmental degradation. And what degradation does occur will never be seen by 99.9% of Americans.

So, I support drilling in ANWR despite what I perceive as a bad precedent. It would be wise for us accompany the precedent with a realization that it is our gluttonous consumption habits which need to be addressed, a mind set that few who identify themselves as conservatives seem to want as part of the debate. They prefer to characterize anyone who favors balance as a whacko, in complete disregard that man's continued encroachment on wildlife habitat, that man's continued extraction of the world's resources, and man's rampant consumerism will leave a legacy that is the antithesis to a quality of life that most of us, conservative, liberal or moderate would wish for future generations.


Ways to Lower Gas Prices
Here's some ways to decrease the prices of oil. 1) Stop allowing oil companies to not pay taxes, have booming profits at the expense of the taxpayers, have an end to the Iraq War which has decreased the supply of oil, stop allowing oil executives to make $20+ million dollars in salaries every year.2) Open drilling in the U.S. rather than limiting US Drilling – however, do not drill in our national wildlife. Drilling here will take 10 years to see benefits and the benefits will only result in 4 cents per gallon. Alternative fuels and more fuel efficient cars will save over 50% in gas prices 3) Stop giving tax breaks to SUV owners and instead give tax breaks to fuel eff. cars 4) Stop allowing car companies to produce gas gusslers and have a requirement of an average of 40 miles per gallon per car - similar to Europe. 5) Allow tax benefits for the creation of alternative fuels in order to have more competition between oil companies. 6) Build more mass transit - subways, trains - like in Europe to deplete the need for gasoline. 7) Stop sending our jobs to China so they can switch from bikes to cars using up the supply of oil.

Tree sounds
Just an obscure fact: If a tree falls in the wood and no-one (animal or otherwise) is there to hear it, it DOES NOT make a sound. Scientifically a sound requires three things: a source (read:tree), a medium (something to conduct the compressions and rarefactions of oscillation. Read: air), and a RECEIVER (an organism or device that interprets or reproduces these vibrations as acoustic energy. Read: people, animals, recording device, etc...). Sound requires that it actually be "heard" to be classified as such. That's the scientific definition of a sound. The tree-fall metaphor doesn't cut it. FYI
(BTW a recording device only reproduces "sound" when listened to. By itself it is just another inanimate object.)

Hank
Hey Hank! chick-a-pee is doing his best!

The problem is, there ISN'T a reasonable argument AGAINST drilling ANWAR or offshore or developing oil shale and tar sands.

Oil Lobbiest and Gas Prices
During the time that Bush and Cheney, both of whom are former oil executives, have been in the White House, the oil and gas industry has spent $393.2 million on lobbying the federal government. This places the industry among the top nine in lobbying expenditures. The industry has also contributed a substantial $82.1 million to federal candidates, parties and political action committees, according to the Center for Responsive Politics. 80 percent of the industry's contributions have gone to Republicans. Record profits have been made by the oil companies since George W. Bush became President.

Pancho
You know, the hyperbole has got to stop. I don't know your political bent and don't claim to know you but you go out on a limb to claim that conservatives are all for waste and gratuitously ruining the environment. That is just not the case. I am very conservative and do think that we need to avoid destroying wild areas and shepherd our natural resources to the best extent possible. We call environmentalists whackos because that is what they are. If the shoe fits, so be it. Instead of trying to become a part of the process and work from within the system to better all of out lives, the greeenies have put their hands over their ears and screamed,"No!" for the last thirty years. No drilling, no new refineries, no new nuclear power plants, etc. How can one show respect for that kind of record? They are extremists, at least the ones that are calling the shots. Some of the most radical profess a desire to see a severe reduction in the human population to "heal the Earth". Funny how they never get started by taking themselves out. If you profess balance, so be it, but don't lecture me on how to treat greenies with respect when they are raving lunatics that will not listen to one word about helping the humans.

No oil in the Grand Canyon ...
Sure, it's easy to say that we shouldn't drill for oil in the Grand Canyon. I'm sure some geologist out there will say that there isn't likely to be oil there.
But, we have mined the Grand Canyon in the past. Go west from the main village on the South Rim and you'll see some old mining equipment left to rust. It's been a while since I've been there, but I remember reading that the government mined very high-quality uranium from the canyon.

ANWAR
I have been to ANWAR. The part of it where the drilling needs to commence. I suggest the congressional opponents take one of their "fact finding trips" up there. In the spring. The mosquitos are the size of sparrows, and attack like kamakazis. I think the only real reason ANWAR won't get developed is that the oil companies won't be able to pay anyone enough to go up there and do it. But if it's so pristine, then the folks who love it so should be made to go up there for a weeks vacation.

McCAIN IS JUST ANOTHER LIBERAL
YOU ALL SEEM TO HAVE COMMON SENSE.YOU DON'T SEE THE OPPOSING VIEWS, BECAUSE THE INTERNET DOSN'T ALLOW YELLING- WHICH IS THERE BIGGEST WEAPON,THAT AND CALLING YOU NAMES IE. STUPID,DUMB ETC.LIBERALS NEVER BACK UP WHAT THEY SAY WITH FACTS ONLY EMOTIONS.AS FOR YOU WHO WILL VOTE FOR MC LIB,MCAIN-FEINGOLD,MCCAIN KENNEDY,DON'T DRLL IN ANWAR ETC. YOU ARE WASTING YOUR VOTE.BOB BARR HAS IT RIGHT AS DO THE LIBERTARIANS.WHY DO THINK THE MEDIA KEEPS THE LIBERTARIANS OUT OF THE NEWS AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE.HELL THEY WON'T EVEN GIVE US NEGATIVE PRESS.HOW MUCH MORE OF THIS LIBERAL BIG GOVERNMENT CAN YOU TAKE.HOW MUCH MORE CAN ARE COUNTRY TAKE.I SAY MAKE A STAND NOW.PUT YOUR TIME,ENERGY,MONEY,SUPPORT BEHIND A PERSON AND PARTY THATS HAD IT RIGHT ALL ALONG.BOBBARR2008.COM

10 YEARS FOR RESULTS
I'M TIRED OF HEARING POLITICIANS AND OPPONENTS OF DRILLING FOR OIL USE EXCUSES LIKE PRISTANE AREA OR ENVIRONENT OR IT WOULD TAKE 10 YEARS TO GET ANY OIL AFTER WE START DRILLING.

FACT : UNLESS WE VOTE THE IDIOTS WHO REFUSE TO DO THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE OUT OF OFFICE WE WILL BE HEARING THE SAME COMMENTS 20 YEARS FROM TODAY WHEN GASOLINE HITS $50.00 A GALLON.

AMERICA THERE IS ONLY ONE ANSWER DRILLLLLLLLLLL NOW AND BECOME ENERGY INDEPENDENT BEFORE OPEC BURIES AMERICA. TIME TO WAKE UP AND VOCALLY REJECT THE LAME EXCUSES.

There is a more insidious side to this..
There are those in congress who want to crash our economy as a path to political power. They can blame Bush and the Republicans for the crisis they have caused and get solid control of both houses and the presidency. In addition, they can call for "nationalization" of the oil companies. Maxine Watters already let that little cat out of the bag in the hearings a couple of weeks ago.

Locking up ANWAR and preventing drilling on the outer continental shelf is a ploy to drive up the price of oil so that they can claim that they have the "answers". The Global warming scam fits in very nicely. If they could get "cap and trade" through, that alone would give them enormous control, a giant step toward total socialism.

Make no mistake about it, the goal is TOTAL CONTROL. They want to tell you how to live. They want "equality" for us all, even if that means we are all equally impoverished. Only they, the ELITE should have any say in the matter.

The catch is, as gasoline gets closer and closer to $5/gal. The people are getting really PI$$ED-OFF and there is an inclination to throw the bums out! The Dems are trying to overcome that by shifting all the blame to Bush. We need to raise hell and remind our friends how the Dems promised to fix the gas price problem two years ago when the price was $2.65/gal.

McCain can still be against ANWR
He can still oppose drilling there but come out more strongly for drilling off the Coast of Florida, etc., utilizing the oil shale and clean coal we have, etc. There are plenty of places to drill without ANWR, so if this is really that big a deal to him, he can come out for drilling in lots of other places as a short term fix.

For a long term fix - McCain has said he is pro-nuclear energy, which is good. He said in the townhall meeting last night that 80% of France's power comes from nuclear. He also addressed the issue of commodities speculation.

Part of the rise of oil prices is due to commodities brokers speculating and driving the prices up. So this is another area where a short term fix could be possible.

I think if we open up coastal areas to drilling and exploit our oil shale and clean coal deposits, we could table discussing ANWR for another day.

Been to Alaska,
although I have never been to the ANWAR region.

Also travelled thru Northern Canada.

The abundance of wildlife I saw was astounding. I truly believe - although I have no scientific degrees to support my feelings - that drilling in a tiny patch of wilderness would NOT have any detrimental effect on the deer, caribou, bear, rabbit, etc., while it would help attaining independency from Mid-Eastern oil slavery.

So, drill there and drill now!

anwr..
jonah I think you meant "roughnecks" not "Leathernecks"
Roughnecks are oil field workers, while Leathernecks are U.S. Marines .. I don';t think th USMC handles security up there .. if they are .. there's a scandal afoot ...

Extremists
In response to CVN65:

I'm not claiming there aren't extremists in the enviromental community. I'm saying that those who propose we drill now, drill everywhere, relax or rescind every enviromental protection, and joke about the disappearance of the world's wildlife as if it's inconsequential are also extremists, and many can be found posting here.

Yesterday, in another thread, I voiced my opposition to the recently continued moratorium on oil shale development in a partisan Congressional vote due in part to new technology that greatly reduces the amount of water necessary for production.

You probably need to reread my initial post, as well as many of the others on this thread.

Equating

>It would be wise for us accompany the precedent with a realization that it is our gluttonous consumption habits which need to be addressed, a mind set that few who identify themselves as conservatives seem to want as part of the debate.<

with

>you go out on a limb to claim that conservatives are all for waste and gratuitously ruining the environment<

is disingenous. How many posts do you see addressing our consumption habits. Even mentioning conservation in conjunction with expanded domestic drilling is cause for ridicule.


PRISTINE MY BEHIND
I PROPOSE THE FOLLOWING:
1) SCHEDULE A VACATION, IN THE DEAD OF WINTER, FOR ALL THE POLITICIANS AND THEIR FOLLOWERS TO ENJOY SOME TIME IN PRISTINE ANWR. FOR THOSE UNFORTUNATE (TO US) ENOUGH TO SURVIVE THEN:

2) SCHEDULE A SUMMER VACATION AND HOPEFULLY THE MOSQUITOS WILL PICK THEM UP AND DROP THEM ON A FROZEN ISLAND INHABITED BY POLAR BEARS( SORRY BEARS). AGAIN MY MISTAKE ,BEARS ARE ALMOST EXTINCT AND ICE IS MELTING SO FAST THE MOSQUITOS MAY DROP THEM AND NOT BE ABLE TO CARRY THEM AS FAR AS THE AMERICAN TAXPAYERS HAVE BEEN CARRYING THEM TO DATE.

I THINK THEN THE DRILLING CAN AND WILL START.

Hank_Scorpio and others
Personally, I would support limited drilling in ANWR under the right circumstances; but I will accept the challenge and defend not drilling.

In short, we should not drill because it will solve nothing. To bring production up to fruition would require a substantial investment in time and money. There is at present no semblance of an infrastructure in place. Further complication will arise from associated regulation no matter how deregulated we allow the operation to become. Furthermore, any drilling will provide a risk to the environment. We can debate the over-all impact, but we cannot deny that there will be some.


Hank_Scorpio and others
Now measure these costs to the benefits. Yes, there is oil there and we can use it. But, however much there is it still amounts to only an extension of our current energy situation. Any extension is not a solution. Frankly the oil age should come to an end. Its time is past due. The gasoline engine should go the way of the steam engine. Yes, there will still be a nitch for gasoline, just as we still rely on steam for certain operations; but over-all, it will be replaced.

Look at the broader pi9cture that energy consumption plays in all levels of society and industry. By moving on to the next technology, we as a nation will once again be in the forefront of industry. We can never regain the industrial strength of the past. The days of muscle and raw material resources are gone from this continent. We need to do what no one else is doing. It is through this that we will regain industrial and financial dominance or the rest of the world. Political clout will follow in due course.

Currently, there is a great wail throughout TH and other conservative sources for more oil. Like thirsty children, we are thinking only about our immediate needs. Projects like drilling in ANWR only prolong the inevitable. They shuck our current problems onto the future. What is needed no are the true conservative virtues of courage, perseverance and faith. It is cowardly to pass off to our children what we won’t face ourselves.

For Tom (#2)
A historical factoid: during Reagan's time, OPEC dropped prices to dock-out domestic production in US--and were aided by Canuck PM Trudeau who imposed his treasonous (as it was meant specifically to hurt a certain part of the country) NEP, which cut off another secure (though not domestic, but in a neighbouring friendly country and massive trade partner) source. Due to the low prices, the 1986 repeal of NEP had no immediate effect in Alberta

For Wally (#3), add me as a signatory.

Related news: Union County, SD voted to zone-approve Hyperion Energy's new refinery--which will process 4 lakh bpd of TarSands oil!

Thanks for thinking
There is far too little of that going around in Washington DC.

ANWAR - It ain't Heaven
Having been station in Alaska while serving our Air Force I can attest to the beauty of the state and to the areas that are not so beautiful. But, drilling in ANWAR would affect nothing but the wallets of every American who is alive 10 years from now and place our security in a much better position. We cannot continue to be so silly and irresponsible in our thinking if we want to continue to live the American dream in a safe and prosperous manner.

MikeR (and other Utopians)
You state: "By moving on to the next technology, we as a nation will once again be in the forefront of industry."

What industry? What "new technology" pray tell?

Reality check: The World runs on energy, and for at least your lifetime, that will mean fossil fuels (unless of course, liberal earth-worshipers stop preventing nuclear).

Dream all you want about millions of bicycle-riding-sandal-wearing-latte-drinkers peddling along toward "sustainable" Nirvana, but in the real world, energy is life, and India, China, and the rest of the emerging nations will go after it, with a vengeance. China is building coal-fired powerplants every week, and is negotiating with Cuba to drill for oil off OUR shores (where limp-wristed liberals are preventing us from doing the same).

And do you think those FOUR Harry Truman Class advance aircraft carriers that the Chinese are building right now are merely part of of some "green" fishing fleet?

Pancho
"This column is a distraction from the real issue. ANWR was land dedicated by Congress as a wildlife refuge, not a national park"...

"A wildlfe refuge, by its very nature,
discourages man's footprint while encouraging the natural state where wildlife can flourish."

I live in the same state you do and I consider myself very much a conservationist and environmentalist, even though the extremists have given environmentalists a bad name.

Face facts. Drilling on a few acres of the ANWAR costal plain would have near zero impact on wildlife. The real purpose for establishing ANWAR was always to lock it up to prevent drilling, not to protect wildlife.

As a resident of Utah, you should know that the same thing was done with the "Grand Staircase National Monument". It is very large and while small parts of it are beautiful and well worth preserving, the VAST majority of it is just sagebrush flats with no special appeal. The real purpose was to prevent development of the coal rescources there.

To imply that anyone who wants to drill ANWAR or the outer continental shelf is against conservation or doesn't care about wildlife is just silly.

These lands belong to the people. A large, and growing majority of us deeply resent the elitists who think that only they know what is best for the country.

DRILL HERE, DRILL NOW, PAY LESS!

Reminds me of 1997 Calgary trip
I drove my sister and her family to the Museum of Regiments in Calgary--where they have an impressive display of tanks, APC's,... used by Canada at one time or currently. As her younger got sick near this display, she worried about that he had made it "less pristine". My older nephew and I informed her that the display was NOT pristine (we'd found litter such as candy-wrappers in all of the vehicles--in one of the tanks, also a shaving-cream can).

Ironically, RUST on any of these display items (all included steel) WOULD be pristine!

John
I am far from a Utopian. I am a realist. What technology? I don’t know personally, but I’m sure science hasn’t come to a standstill. What industry? All industry. That means everything that’s manufactured. Furthermore, necessity really is the mother of invention. Worried about the Chinese Navy? Advanced energy translates into superior propulsion and weaponry. Remember, at the start of the 20th century, the automobile was a scarce commodity. Within 15 years, not only were there airplanes, they were engaged in combat. When I was a boy, a trip to the moon was science fiction. Within 15 years of the first time I heard it discussed seriously, I watched men land there.

Like I said, it will take courage, perseverance and faith. No one is seriously suggesting “millions of bicycle-riding-sandal-wearing-latte-drinkers peddling along toward "sustainable" Nirvana”. Yes, other sections of the world are vigorously pursuing contemporary energy. We can’t win that kind of race. No one can. I say we beat them to what comes next. Is tat all you can come up with, doing nothing or fighting like two dogs over one piece of meat?

Profits being taxed
The arguement for taxing the profits of oil companies, bread makers, auto manufacturers, etc makes no sense to me if in doing so we are trying to foster lower prices. The mfg. pays the tax, builds that expense into the overhead figure and adjusts the price of their product to cover the additional cost. Basic economics and reasonable thinking make such an arguement incoherent. Now, if the purpose is to punish those rascally ole oil producers then those who are making large sums of money on their speculation in oil futures profits should be singled out and punished as well. Success, for those who don't achieve it, can be intimidating.

Oh, I am not an oil baron as such, but my IRA and other investments (I retired from the military so the huge investments aren't really a problem for me) are tied to the markets too and by taxing the oil producers my retirement funds are going to be lower and make me more dependent on the Federal coffers to support me now that I am retired. Whew, daunting isn't it? So much to think about, do ya think our elected brethern could do some on our behalf too instead of trying to tell us how someone else will pay for our welfare, it ain't our problem or responsibility. But, guess they feel they have to bribe us to get our vote....ergo Pork Barrel Spending and Government Programs funded by, oh, ah, yeah...the taxpayers.

Oil policy simplified...
...for Dummocrats.

...drill in ANWR...drill offshore...coal to gas...shale oil...

Tape record the above, secure the offending Dummocrat to a gurney, then play this recording at high volume through a headset in a continuous loop for 72 hour.

Remove the headset, ask the subject a couple of oil policy questions, and if the poor creature says something like "solar and wind power", repeat the above procedure until the strange behaviour ceases.

Your Most Humble and Obedient Servant,

George Washington

Revisionist History
ANWR was originally set asside for STRATEGIC PIL RESERVES. Just like all the other federal lands that are currently being drilled.

http://www.unc.edu/~money/geography/history.html



Wally
Yes, let’s get real. We are not in the middle of the Sahara with no water. In fact, that’s one of the problems. Too many conservatives are acting like liberals and assessing the situation worse than it actually is. However, the concern to our economy is real; so it would be realistic to believe that some additional oil source must be utilized to tide us over.

The tone of your comment brings to mind the legend of the “Greatest Generation”. It’s a popular myth that claims the people who survived the Great Depression and fought in WWII are somehow superior to present day people. Well, I know those folks well. They raised me and I lived amongst them. I can assure you that they were just plain folks like everyone else. It was the necessity of the times that made them great. Perhaps now is a time for people, especially conservatives, to strive for greatness.

These links shed some light
on the shrill calls to drill in ANWR.

http://www.adn.com/oil/story/389829.html
http://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/fs-0028-01/fs-0028-01.pdf
http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/medialib/blm/ak/aktest/tr.Par .13487.File.dat/ak_tr18_1998.pdf

Oil - the very same oil that sits beneath ANWR - could be extracted from the Sourdough and Flaxman Island sites. BP which leases the sites from Alaska, doesn't even care to develop them.
Alaska has the leverage to get production going there, and Alaska appears to be willing to use it.
Given this, why is it so necessary and urgent to drill less than a kilometer away in ANWR?
I mistakenly made the conclusion that the Interior Department would like to beat Alaska in the race to realize royalties, but it's very unlikely the Interior Department could get so many commentators, like Jonah Goldberg, to join this effort. It is much more likely that the case being made to drill in ANWR, mostly by conservative politicians and press, is motivated by partisan politics. Politicians will fall all over themselves to demonstrate for the public their ability to "do something", even if means drilling an oil well less than a kilometer away from an existing one.

MikeR
Everything you have stated is great but We where aware of this problem back in the 70s and what has been done since then nothing. Until we get those alternatives we still need oil. Just think how long its going to take to create and implement those alterntives with all the Government restrictions and the ENVIROS fighting us all the way. The ENVIROS will come up with something to delay us even with the plan to create alternatives. But please dont come on here and tell us that the great ETHANAL program is an alternative means because all that has done is raise the price of corn and has caused some countries and their people to starve. This country will never get ahead of the rest of the world when allot of people in this country already think we are the great ENERGY ENHALERS already and are the main reason for GLOBULL WARMING. People cannot take the proper steps for this when they also are blaming you for the problem. It will take years to develope alternatives in this country and until then i say DRILL. I like the environment also and love the woods for camping and hunting. I was stationed in Alaska and this area they are talking about is a wasteland basically.

I would dare the Americans to try and build a Tourist site there for if you dont think the Mosquitos want carry you away go and see for yourself. I did. When is any tourist going to visit a sight that is 90 degrees below zero in the winter. NEVER.

I
have a question regarding the oft repeated time line the pols use to discourage drilling..taking too long..10-12 years.
That's now in 2008.

Yet back in WW 2 I seem to remember reading
or seeing a documentary about how we created
synthetic rubber with in a three years period after the Japanese over ran S. E. Asia and controlled the rubber plantations.
And it took how long, to replace our fleet the Japanese destroyed in their attack? That was in the early 40's, with a much more primitive
technology than we have today. So they are telling as we send a shuttle back and forth to
a space station, we CANNOT fastrack our
drilling/refinery building while they could
fastrack the national security needs 67 years ago? O don't talk about the enviro regs and all that baloney..the Congress can over ride
those problems and industry can get the job done
with the technology we have and it won't harm the environment..but could hurt the fund raising of the envirogreensnots.

Wastelands
Like ANWR are ideal sites for nuclear waste depositories. I might hesitate on drilling there, in deference to its polar proximity. Who can say what affect removing a sea of oil from the vicinity might have on the stability of our magnetic pole? The deep sea rigs off California and Florida seem the more logical choices. There are tried and true methods and have a great history of success.

Does anyone know what answer to give the dems on their stance that the oil companies haven't drilled where they are already okayed and have federal leases and blessings? It sounded like hokum to me, when I heard it, but it certainly bears scrutiny.

Mike R here's a shocker for you...
I mostly agree with your post RE:
"let’s get real. We are not in the middle of the Sahara with no water".

and " It was the necessity of the times that made them great. Perhaps now is a time for people, especially conservatives, to strive for greatness."

No Mike, we are not in the Sahara with no water, but I stand by my analogy, that's where our economy is, figuratively speaking. But, why do you say especially conservatives? Seems to me it is a good time for EVERYONE to put the good of the country ahead of party politics.

The fact is, we are in a mess. We are paying other countries through the nose for oil and they in turn are buying our real estate and businesses. We are selling our souls for oil when we have enough and some to spare right here.

It is, in fact the so called liberals in congress that have created this problem, assisted in no small part by well meaning but naive "greenies".

It may come as a shock to you, but there are those among us who want an economic crisis, for selfish political reasons, just as there are those who want our efforts in Iraq to fail. They are mostly the same people who celebrate the deaths of our soldiers but cry crocodile tears, just politics as usual. It is obvious that the "environmental movement" has become the new home of the "FAR left".


Chuck
You are so right. I only accepted the challenge to defend “no drilling” because I remember so well the formation of OPEC and the embargo. I watched the price of fuel double (while trying to get a full set of dishes from Boron) and though that there was going to be hell to pay. But somehow, things settled down and the country remained complacent through Democrat and Republican administrations. Well, 30 years later, we are back in the same mess after funneling billions to folks who are basically our enemies. Now the rest of the world is getting thirsty for fuel. Without a doubt, we need to drill more but we also have to come up with something fast.

As Tea Party rightly pointed out, past necessities have spurred us on to doing what was previously inconceivable.

Wally
I understand what you are saying and you are right about the mess we are in and yes everyone should be together on this. It is high time for the Democrats to divorce themselves from the extreme left, including environmental extremists. I only said especially the conservatives because I really don’t expect much courage and faith from liberals. Also this thread and TH columns lately have too many conservatives saying nothing more than drill for more oil. I took the defense as a challenge only, but I want to see our nation pull ahead of the world again and I do thing that energy could be the key to this future greatness.

McCain's Problem
As with most who follow this forum, I am going to vote for McCain. This incessant need of his to make the media like him, instead of making the hard decisions that are in the best interests of the country, is driving me crazy!
Lets face it, there is not a sherd of real evidence that ANWR would be harmed in the least by drilling. All that is offered is a lot of "what ifs", reminicent of the years I spent listening to my teenagers try to make arguments. "What ifs" rarely, if ever, pan out. Further, if we lived our lives on "what ifs" we would be paralized to do anything past rising in the morning.
WHAT IF MANMADE GLOBAL WARMING IS TRUE, WHAT IF DRILLING IN ANWR CHANGES THE GEOLOGY, OR KILLS A FEW CARABOU? Give it a rest! Global warming is not Manmaid, nor is drilling in ANWR going to do a damn thing to hurt the ecology of the area. If either were true there would not only be provable evidence, there would not be so much data proving just the opposite.
McCain, grow some Cajones! Drill now, Drill here! Give us lots of nuclear power, so our children do not have to live like paupers to heat their homes, and drive to work!

The Delusion of "American" Energy
I am not particularly opposed to drilling in ANWR, as long as it is part of a long term national strategy. Here is why. It's a grave mistake to think the oil in ANWR or anywhere else oil is found, would become available to us as Americans.

Any oil will become the property of the oil companies, who will sell it on the market to the highest bidder. Just as much ANWR oil will go to China as to America! It will not be OUR oil.

New produciotn will drop the price for a while, but cheaper oil will only increase demand (there is a vast amount of demand yet to develop). Increased demand in China and India will drive prices up to these same levels or even higher.

Why do people think of ANWR as OUR oil. It will be oil company oil.







EXCELLENT
Excellent column from an EYEWITNESS. Someone make Old Cranky read this.

Do the math
The whole of the ANWR is roughly 19 million acres. The area that would be affected by drilling is approximately 2000 acres. If you do the math, that is 0.000105% of this "pristine" wilderness. If mother earth cannot survive the intrusion of man on a mere 2000 acres, by that logic, we must be extinct.

I don't know what persuades John McCain to look at this area as akin to the Grand Canyon but if he hopes to win the election in November, he had better take a closer look at the issue. That is if he can pry his upper protrusion now so full packed in his posterior portion.

Juan mccain
another reason not to go to the polls on november 4.
when the greenies are given money from corps. and foundations to protest against nuclear power plants, you can bet that the circular (sit on numerous boards) ceos and board members of petro companies ar e behind this. no competition for oil.
the president should declare that nuclear e plants are a national defense priority. Ike did this for the interstate system so that federal funds could build a modern hiway system. I like Ike. I like bike.
when juan mac wakes up on Nov 5, he will still not get the wake up call.
i would let them drill in my back yard if the supply increases. this is the only thing that drilling will do. when 'operation independence' was ratified in d.c., the oil companies put the alaska oil on the international market. the only affect was a + oil supply. drilling in anwar will not be for the u.s.a., but the international futures market.
only nuke plants will stop petro elites from ruining our economy.
adios,
harvey
lancaster, taxifornia
dial 1 for english

owning oil
Re: Subject: The Delusion of "American" Energy

jack, you are a mensch. you understand the irony of drilling in the usa. america is the #3 world wide producer of oil. it is sold on the speculative oil futures market.
when congress apporved drilling in alaska in the 20th cent. the oil extracted was bound for japan mostly. they paid the price asked. the few americans with a memory were confused that the oil didn't go south. WAKE UP SHEEP.

there is no futures price on u.s. nuclear e plants.
we can shed the greasy oily and slick oil company hucksters and have cheap elect. and elect. cars.
if the next pres. announced he would build 100 nuke plants, the oil prices would fall 50% overnight.
when the ground breaking begins, they will give libbey glasses with 8 gal. again. believe it.

sorry john, we need a LEADER, a BACKBONED LEADER, and you don't, won't or can't fill the shoes. or obama.

adios,
Harvey
Lancaster, Mexifornia
dial 1 for english and viva la raza?

Who vacations
in either ANWR or 20 miles off the coast?

Drill here.

I'm an Alaskan
You people really have no glue. I have lived for more then half of my life here. I see that the pipline is not harming any animal. And you know what drilling will not hurt them either. It all comes down to you stratch my back and I'll stratch yours. Our oil Companies are knowledgeable enough to drill and not hurt any animal. It is the two legged ones you have to stir clear off. It's the money mongers the environmentalist. The jerks that want to see AMerica fail. It is going to take alot of people going to Washington an throwing the Bums out. And putting new in their places especially Pelosie and Reid. The real Americans have to stick together enough with the illigals get rid of them too. Too much pulling down on our economic's around the board, for AMerica to be able to handle. The money going to paying for them could be used to pay for more oil exploration. Mexico and Canada could care less if America stays on top, in anything. The same for the democratic Congress. If they truely want America to stay the superpower they better change their tunes. To be truthful I don't think they want us to be! Do you?

It Defies Logic
It absolutely defies logic why so many are in love with such a place. Both our Minnesota senators voted against it, one Rep and one Dem. Not only that but to put so much other territory off limits as well. I say too we need to elect different people but it seems we have so many uninformed voters too these days. I think the Environmental Cartel in this control is way too powerful. Our oil companies have the best technology in the world to drill and who is watching the others like China and Russia? No one. I say let the American oil companies do what they do best-DRILL any where and everywhere there is domestic oil.

I agree
Your right! I don't think that the people in Washington really give a flip as long as they have their jobs and the American people are paying their way. They will keep on causing problems to so that they can say we are doing our best to come to a conclusion that we can all live with. What a bunch of Crap!!@ They are only concerned about their own pocket books they don't care one iota about anything that really is happening in our world today. I think if people want to have these jobs that they should pay for their own body guards, their own flights to where they feel they have to go. And that they should also have to be on the same social security plan as all Americans they are eletist in the worst sense. They just don't care about the real reality!!!!

ANWR lie
Why does everyone let the media and liberals off the hook for showing beautiful mountainous valleys and meadows as being 'ANWR' when talking about drilling there? It's like showing photos of Yellowstone to keep people from drilling in downtown Detroit.
This is what the proposed drilling area really looks like:
http://www.anwr.org/gallery/images/48-Coastal_Plain_summer. jpg
This pristine wilderness is sooo beautiful!

A Great Republican Protected ANWR.
Dwight D. Eisenhower, a great Republican, was responsible for setting aside the 19,049,236 acres of pristine land for federal protection. His administration did it for a reason: to protect it against short-sighted people like yourself, Mr. Goldberg.

Quit blaming the energy crisis on Democrats. It's our country's thirst for oil, the unrest in the Middle East and overall global demand that has led us down this path.

It has been proven time and time again that drilling in ANWR will do nothing to stave the avalanche we've created by depleting this planet of oil. It has also been proven, time and time again, just how horribly even the smallest disaster (the Exxon Valdez) can affect Alaska.

Are human beings such a global virus that we can't leave just one prestine area alone? Are we so bereft of ideas that our only answer to our energy crisis is to drill fruitlessly?
Sign Up to Post Your CommentsSign Up to Post Your Comments
If you are already registered, click here to login. Otherwise, please take a few seconds to register with Townhall.com. Once you sign up, you’ll be able to post your comments immediately, use the action center, get podcasts, and more!
Note: Fields marked with a red asterisk (*) are required.
Salutation:
First Name:
*
Last Name:
*
Email:
*
Nickname:
*
Note: Nick name will be shown when you post comments.
Address 1:
*
Address 2:
City:
*
State:
*
Zip:
*
Phone:
      
Your daily must-read of conservative columns, cartoons and news. Coulter, Sowell, Krauthammer and more.
(Bi-Weekly) We highlight the best opportunities from our partners for surveys, action items and more.