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Wednesday, November 21, 2007
Jonah Goldberg :: Townhall.com Columnist
Ron Paul Isn't That Scary
by Jonah Goldberg
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As the hopeless but energetic presidential campaign of Rep. Ron Paul (R-Texas) builds momentum in name recognition, fundraising and cross-ideology appeal, some conservatives are beginning to attack him in earnest. A GOP consultant condemns Paul's "increasingly leftish" positions. Syndicated columnist Mona Charen calls Paul "too cozy with kooks and conspiracy theorists." Film critic and talk-radio host Michael Medved looks over Paul's supporters and finds "an imposing collection of neo-Nazis, white supremacists, Holocaust deniers, 9/11 'truthers' and other paranoid and discredited conspiracists."

For the most part, these allegations strike me as overblown and unfair. But, for argument's sake, let's say they're not. Let's even say that Paul has the passionate support of the Legion of Doom, that his campaign lunchroom looks like the "Star Wars" cantina, and that his top advisors have hooves instead of feet.

Well, I would still find him less scary than Mike Huckabee.

While many are marveling at Paul's success at breaking out of the tinfoil-hat ghetto, Huckabee's story is even more remarkable. The former Arkansas governor and Baptist minister is polling in second place in Iowa and could conceivably win there. He's still a long shot to take the nomination and a pipe dream to take the presidency, but Huckabee matters in a way that Paul still doesn't. One small indicator of Huckabee's relevance: His presidential opponents are attacking Huckabee while ignoring Paul like he's an eccentric sitting too close to you on the bus.

What's so scary about Huckabee? Personally, nothing. He seems a charming, decent, friendly, pious man.

What's troubling about The Man From Hope 2.0 is what he represents. Huckabee represents compassionate conservatism on steroids. A devout social conservative on issues such as abortion, school prayer, homosexuality and evolution, Huckabee's a populist on economics, a fad-follower on the environment and an all-around do-gooder who believes that the biblical obligation to do "good works" extends to using government - and your tax dollars - to bring us closer to the Kingdom of Heaven on Earth.

For example, Huckabee would support a nationwide ban on public smoking. Why? Because he's on a health kick, thinks smoking is bad and believes the government should do the right thing.

And therein lies the chief difference between Paul and Huckabee. One is a culturally conservative libertarian. The other is a right-wing progressive.

Whatever shortcomings Paul and his friends might have, Paul's dogma generally renders those shortcomings irrelevant. He is a true ideologue in that his personal preferences are secondary to his philosophical principles. When asked what his position is, he generally responds that his position can be deduced from the text of the Constitution. Of course, that's not as dispositive as he thinks it is. But you get the point.

As for Huckabee - as with most politicians, alas - his personal preferences matter enormously because, ultimately, they're the only things that can be relied on to constrain him.

In this respect, Huckabee's philosophy is conventionally liberal, or progressive. What he wants government to do certainly differs in important respects from what Hillary Clinton wants, but the limits he would place on governmental do-goodery are primarily tactical or practical, not philosophical or constitutional. This isn't to say he - or Hillary - is a would-be tyrant, but simply to note that the progressive notion of the state as a loving, caring parent is becoming a bipartisan affair.

Indeed, Huckabee represents the latest attempt to make conservatism more popular. Contrary to the conventional belief that Republicans need to drop their opposition to abortion, gay marriage and the like in order to be popular, Huckabee understands that the unpopular stuff is the economic libertarianism: free trade and smaller government. That's why we're seeing a rise in economic populism on the right married to a culturally conservative populism. Huckabee is the bastard child of Lou Dobbs and Pat Robertson.

Historically, the conservative movement benefited from the tension between libertarianism and cultural traditionalism. This tension - and the effort to reconcile it under the name "fusionism" - has been mischaracterized as a battle between right-wing factions when it's really a conflict that runs through the heart of every conservative. We all have little Mike Huckabees and Ron Pauls sitting on our shoulders. Neither is always right, but both should be listened to.

I would not vote for Paul mostly because I think his foreign policy would be disastrous (Also, he'd lose in a rout not seen since Bambi versus Godzilla). But there's something weird going on when Paul, the small-government constitutionalist, is considered the extremist in the Republican Party, while Huckabee, the statist, is the lovable underdog. It's even weirder because it's probably true: Huckabee is much closer to the mainstream. And that's what scares me about Huckabee and the mainstream alike.

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About The Author
Jonah Goldberg is editor-at-large of National Review Online.
 
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Ron
Ron Paul seems to be a stict contrutionist which is fine with me. Ron Paul does not grasp that the world changed after 9/11 and that the constitution is not a suicide pact. That is not fine with me. He's the Republican Kucinich.

Fred seems the best choice at this time.

Huckabee and friends
The interesting thing about it is that this same logic is equally valid applied to Romney and 9iu11ani. These are men hell bent on increasing the size, scope, and cost of the Federal government. Romney will say anything to get elected, which he proved while winning MA, and 9iu11ani lies to his own wives. None of these men are trustworthy. Paul is the only man that has earned my trust with the increasing power of the executive office of the Federal government.

A vote for Paul is a vote for prosperity. I don't want America to be the world police, I want America to be the world bank. Like a bank, we need the strongest currency and the strongest defense. We need guns and gold - guns gaurding the vault overflowing with riches. When I hear Paul speak, I think this is the man to guard my treasure, and since I treasure this country and our Constitution, I will vote Paul.

Vote Ron Paul for a conservative approach to reclaiming the glory of the Republic.

Now that I know Medved is against Paul

"Film critic and talk-radio host Michael Medved looks over Paul's supporters and finds "an imposing collection of neo-Nazis, white supremacists, Holocaust deniers, 9/11 'truthers' and other paranoid and discredited conspiracists."


I will begin to work for the man, knowing he must be a very good and decent person, if Medved the idiot does not like him.
I really want Hunter/Tancredo, but if they do not get the traction, I will vote for Ron Paul.
I cannot even stand to hear Medveds voice any more, and used to listen to this supremely arrogant jerk.

If anyone is paranoid, its the clown Medved.
He is enough to gag a maggot with his self-righteous declarations against people that are his betters.
As Jerome Corsi
Joe Farrah
Phyllis S.
and now
Ron Paul


Dang RIGHT its weird.

quote:
But there's something weird going on when Paul, the small-government constitutionalist, is considered the extremist in the Republican Party, while Huckabee, the statist, is the lovable underdog"

And Romney and Guliani and Thompson and McCain.

Right wing progressive?
I believe that's an oxymoron. Huckabee an all-around do-gooder? Not what we need in the Whitehouse IMHO. I think Ron Paul has more support than a lot of folks are willing to admit-especially the younger crowd-they want the govt out of their lives and off their backs, and I can't say I disagree with them there. Rudy would make one helluva used car salesman.

I'm voting for Ron Paul
I'm glad others here are at least acknowledging the problems with big government conservatism.

Jonah
Have to disagree with you. As stated above, "right-wing progressive" is not an apt term for Huckabee. How about a term that has been applied to the right for a long time, he's part of the "Religious Left". He is Bush times 2, a religious liberal with an (R) after his name. I would as soon vote for a snake. Even RINO Rudy is more conservative except that he is also a gun grabber.

As An Observer From Across...
...the pond from what I've seen of Ron Paul he is someone who has a strong set of beliefs and, whether one agrees with them or not, at least he is prepared to stand by them unlike many of the other candidates from both parties.
For what its worth I think his views on US foreign policy are hard to argue with no matter what Hannity says!!!

LIBERTY IS ON THE MARCH STARTING TODAY!
This morning and across this nation Liberty is on the march and some of the founders of our country have risen from their graves! Washington, Jefferson, Madison and Franklin have sounded the rallying call for all patriots to come to the aid of their country a prepare for battle! They have issued a Call on America to help support the only Conservative running for president...i.e. Dr Ron Paul :O))

From sea to shining sea let the words of our founders go forth! From every mountain top let Freedom Ring! When America sits down for breakfast this morning and opens up USA Today they will see that "The Die is Cast!" We have crossed our Rubicon! Let Freedom Ring!

The real Kooks, Nazis, Fruitcakes and Flakes are people like Mona Charen and Michael Medved who try to paint decency, honesty and integrity with their brushes of deceit. Like Jonah, they are Neocons who happen to be Jewish and expect to get a pass from criticism because they are Jewish. I only point this out because shortly their fellow conspirators will be falling all over themselves as they come out of the woodwork to slander and and start name calling anyone who disagrees with them. But just remember that it was the Zionists who assisted Hitler and who ratted on those good Jews who were religious and believed in God as Hitler's men rounded up those good and decent and Patriotic Jews of Europe and sent them and their innocent families to the ovens.

Ron Paul is a loon
Sorry, Jonah, just because Huckabee has a ton of political liabilities doesn't mean Ron Paul is an acceptable candidate.

I find it disturbing that Democrats and fringe groups find him appealing. They seem to share his world-view that 9/11 was largely our fault and that this country should divorce itself from an active role in the world and embrace isolationism.

Also, he has accepted donations from white supremacists, which he apparently intends to keep.

I'm voting for Ron Paul for President
He is one of the least scary candidates running for President! Rudy or Hillary would be way more scary than Ron Paul. Why vote in another big spender for the President? Time to end the Iraq war as continuing it will ruin this country for nothing! Saddam is dead so what is the point in continuing to have troops stationed over there? We can't kill off all the Muslims just to get rid of Al Quaida. Bin Laden is so close to dead that he will die of natural causes before troops would be able to catch or kill him. Maybe the cost of oil will come down again when the war is over with. If it doesn't come down in price, the money spent on war could be better utilized on developing alternatives to run things on besides oil. Ron Paul is the most sensible & economical candidate & deserves every vote he gets from us!

HUCKABEE IS A LIBERAL LIKE BILL CLINTON!
Christians Need To Beware of Mike Huckabee by Chuck Baldwin
http://www.chuckbaldwinlive.com/c2007/cbarchive_20071102.ht ml
An Appeal To My Fellow Pastors by Chuck Baldwin
http://www.chuckbaldwinlive.com/c2007/cbarchive_20071106.ht ml
Conservative Republicans Have Only One Choice In 2008 by Chuck Baldwin
August 28, 2007 http://www.chuckbaldwinlive.com/c2007/cbarchive_20070828.h tml
A Tale of Two Candidates -American Spectator
http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=12205
Slush Fund: Huckabee tapped mansion Fund for Himself The Arkansas Times
http://www.arktimes.com/blogs/arkansasblog/2007/09/golden_o ldie_from_the_huckabee.aspx
Huckabee Begs For New Taxes (on camera) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pLOC4krZI4
How Many Times has Huckabee Fibbed about his Gas Tax? http://tinyurl.com/3xg6vy
Tax Hike Mike http://www.taxhikemike.org/
Mexican consulate deal dogs Huckabee campaign World net Daily 10/31/07
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=58 430
Another Man From Hope : Who is Mike Huckabee? - Wall Street Journal http://www.opinionjournal.com/diary/?id=110010782
Mike Huckabee. The Socialist From Arkansas. - Council of Conservative Citizens about homeschooling http://www.cofcc.org/?p=811
The Huckabee Horror:He'd Shred the Constitution in a Heartbeat
http://www.etherzone.com/2007/raim101207.shtml
The dark side of Mike Huckabee - Salon 11/13/07 http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2007/11/13/huckabee/i ndex.html

HUCKABEE IS A LIBERAL LIKE BILL CLINTON!
Christians Need To Beware of Mike Huckabee by Chuck Baldwin
http://www.chuckbaldwinlive.com/c2007/cbarchive_20071102.ht ml
An Appeal To My Fellow Pastors by Chuck Baldwin
http://www.chuckbaldwinlive.com/c2007/cbarchive_20071106.ht ml
Conservative Republicans Have Only One Choice In 2008 by Chuck Baldwin
August 28, 2007 http://www.chuckbaldwinlive.com/c2007/cbarchive_20070828.h tml
A Tale of Two Candidates -American Spectator
http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=12205
Slush Fund: Huckabee tapped mansion Fund for Himself The Arkansas Times
http://www.arktimes.com/blogs/arkansasblog/2007/09/golden_o ldie_from_the_huckabee.aspx
Huckabee Begs For New Taxes (on camera) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pLOC4krZI4
How Many Times has Huckabee Fibbed about his Gas Tax? http://tinyurl.com/3xg6vy
Tax Hike Mike http://www.taxhikemike.org/
Mexican consulate deal dogs Huckabee campaign World net Daily 10/31/07
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=58 430
Another Man From Hope : Who is Mike Huckabee? - Wall Street Journal http://www.opinionjournal.com/diary/?id=110010782
Mike Huckabee. The Socialist From Arkansas. - Council of Conservative Citizens about homeschooling http://www.cofcc.org/?p=811
The Huckabee Horror:He'd Shred the Constitution in a Heartbeat
http://www.etherzone.com/2007/raim101207.shtml
The dark side of Mike Huckabee - Salon 11/13/07 http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2007/11/13/huckabee/i ndex.html

Ron Paul is crazy
Ron Paul and his Star Wars Cantinia, Klingon speaking supporters represent everything that is wrong with the Woodstock Generation as presented by the Press.

Plus he flaps his hands like a girl and he has a voice like the Wicked Witch of the West.

Americans enjoy their Official Moonbats, but thank heavens when they step into the voting booth they realize that spending four years apologizing to the world for letting a lunatic loose on them is just not on.

smoking
What could be wrong about outlawing smoking period? Have you ever had to be positioned next to the poison in an ash tray? That stuff is horrible. I can't believe people are crazy enough to want to put that stuff in their bodies.

Ron Paul is scary
and his supporters are crazy to think that the Constitution really means anything. Why can't people see that the idea of American values, traditions and a belief in goodness are not acceptable anymore, in this global world.

Why should we as Americans want privacy in our lives, unless we have done something wrong and have something to hide. Do you have something to hide? Why would the idea of the government arresting you and jailing you, without proof of a crime bother you and keep you in detention for as long as the government likes, without providing evidence against you be a problem. The government is not going to do any of these things, unless it has a reason and that should be acceptable to you and your neighbors.

Hey, we are at war with terrorism people!! And war justifies arresting anyone who resists, complains or heaven forbid, talks against a government official and their actions.

What do you think, that people would actually be detained, arrested or imprisoned if they wear an anti government t-shirt at a public event, where an official is giving a speech. C'mon people thats ridiculous.

CONT...

how can we push for Duncan Hunter?
I would love to see Duncan Hunter as a V.P. since he probably can't win this time. Maybe that can bring some conservative agenda for the next few years. Duncan's principles are shown at http://www.gohunter08.com/inner.asp?z=4 and they are truly conservative.

ron paul is the only respectable
conservative on stage during the debates. the others are neocons who want extremely large federal govt that relies on war as a foreign policy.
did you know that ron paul has recieved the most money in donations from military families than any other candidate from either party?

Ron Paul is scary
Do you really think we would, as a government hire mercenaries to patrol the streets of America or replace our troops in a theater of war and make those mercenaries excempt from any crimes they may commit. Your crazy if you think so.

Do you really believe, that the government would go house to house and take your guns away. Do you actually believe that? Your crazy if you do.

Do you really think that the government, in conjunction with corporations would wire tap your communications and build a database on every American, right here in the good ol USA? Your crazy if you think so.

We are at war people and our enemy is terrorism!!

Those terrorist could be anyone and I mean anyone, your mother, your father, your sister, your brother, etc....and we have to be ready to turn them in, to the government and expose them for what they are.

Do you really think that here in America our government would torture people? C'mon lets be serious. We would only torture if there is a need to do so and there is suspected information that would assist us in the war on terror. Is it not acceptable to torture people, for the sake of homland security?

If you disagree, then go ahead and vote for that loon Ron Paul. But be forewarned, that if he does not win, we will seek you out and justify the use of torture, for your dissent against the homeland and your support of terrorists. Dont believe me, just wait and see.

spiritof76
outlaw smiking? boy you're a real conservative. why not let the government plan our meals like we are children in school?

traitorous republicans
I was being sarcastic.

john lemski
oh, well then good job

Ron Paul's idea about small government
Ron Paul's ideas about small government remind me a little of the Ronald Reagan mentality. Tow quotes from Reagan that I remember are:
"It's time to get the government off the backs of the American people."

Those words ring even truer today in my opinion.

The other Reagan quote I like is (and I may not have it exactly perfect):

"The scariest words to hear are - I'm from the government, and I'm here to help."

I would love to see every federal government agency required to reduce their spending by one percent each year for 10 years. Even a one percent cut in spending for one year would have all the Congressional "Care-Bears" wringing their hands and declaring how heartless such a cut would be. Rubbish!

Lemski
As you may have noticed, I have spoken ill of the Big Government idea by quoting Ronald Reagan. I am sitting here waiting for them to come and arrest me. Oh yeah, almost forgot after reading your rant - this is a free country with freedom of speech. Oh well, guess I will just go to work like any other day. No one is coming to arrest me, trust me on that one.

It's His Supporters

Jonah Goldberg, once again, is exactly right. Ron Paul himself is not "scary". It's many of his supporters who are.

Exhibit A -- JohnLemski (I'm all for sarcasm, but the version of today's America that you are describing is not at all consistent with the one I live in).

Exhibit B -- traitorous repubulicans (sure, run over the guy who most agrees with you, and then apologize later).

I personally think Ron Paul is brilliant, and I agree with our British friend vespanant that he is the only candidate in either party that I trust entirely to stand behind his views.

I only wish I could hear him acknowledge that today's challenge of international terrorism is different. This challenge requires us, in our national interest, to be interventionist.

Rep. Paul is in favor of free trade. So am I. But if we're going to permit cargo ships to enter our ports, I want our military prepared to intervene anywhere and everywhere to prevent (or, God forbid, respond to) a terrorist attack.

sept12repug
you should be a 2003democrat. gwbush has done everything except protect us. we are the most vulnerable country in the world right now.

Goldberg nailed it....
....on both Huckabee and Ron Paul.

Ron Paul on domestic policy is excellent but he has his head in the sand on foreign policy. Because of the advanced concepts of freedom and individualism that the Founding Fathers espoused two and half centuries ago, the U.S. inevitably became the most advanced society in the world and hence the LEADER of the world by default. In order to continue this greatest of all experiments in history, the U.S. is REQUIRED to be proactively engaged in the world, something that Buchaninite isolationists and extreme libertarians fail to understand. IMO Ron Paul's blindness regarding the American role in the world is simply too great a danger to this country's well being and possibly even survival as the entity it currently is, in favor of all the scumbag enemies the world over. Too bad, because domestically Ron Paul's ideas are more and more critically needed.

Huckabee is a finger wagger from the Right, every bit as dangerous to our individual freedoms as the Leftist socialists dominating the Democrat Party. The man is a flake and comes off as a bit of a wimp, not presidential material at all. He seems to be Al Gore Lite on the Right, "knowing" what's best for us. No thanks.

Republicans should support Ron Paul!
"I would not vote for Paul mostly because I think his foreign policy would be disastrous”

What???? I think had we listened to people like Paul in 2002, we would not be in the mess we are in now in Iraq. Who are these people that think the Bush Neo-conservative foreign policy has been a success?

Is that what republicans want to continue in 2008, Bush policies? Neo Conservative policies have been a failure on every level over the past 8 years. Meanwhile the Republican base wants to support political charlatans like Mitt Romney and Rudy Giuliani for president. I don't get it.

If there is anyone the Republicans should support, it's Ron Paul.

It's His Supporters, Part 2

Exhibit C -- Anthony Thomas (some of us neocon cretins actually do believe that 6-plus years of NO additional major domestic terrorist attacks actually does suggest some measure of success on the part of the Bush administration).

The only resason
that Ron Paul has an R after his name is calling himself a Republican is the only way he can keep winning his House Seat. When he ran as a Libertarian, he got his clock cleaned. The man is a flippin' loon.

Jonah
Go down to your local Armed Forces recruiter and enlist. Be amongst the first, who knows maybe even the first, of the neocon punditry to put their money where there mouth is. Go ahead, make us proud.

The enemy within.
How could anyone vote for the texas weasel? If paul was so great and the republican party is so bad why won't he run with an (L) after his name? There is no doubt he loves all the attention from holocaust deniers, racists and other left wing wackos, these are his isolationist soulmates. And again of course we have the lies of the TR's of the world telling lies that he recieves more money from military families, without the source of course. He can't say the name Jeneane garafalo on TH. Why is this writer acting like there are two horses in the race. As a christian, I have to say once again that the biggest enemy of the Jewish people is not muslims, christians or even atheists, its Jew's. I wonder how many people like Jonah voted in hitler cause he sounded like he cared about his country. Bottom line is Paul would be as bad a carter in the 70's.

Fightr4right
Before spouting yon mouth, perhaps you first should go get the facts.

http://www.RonPaulLibrary.org

Ron Paul endorsed by Barry Goldwater, Jr
November 16, 2007 10:16 am EST

ARLINGTON, VIRGINIA—Republican presidential candidate Ron Paul today gained a public endorsement from Barry M. Goldwater, Jr.

“America is at a crossroads,” said Mr. Goldwater. “We have begun to stray from our traditions and must get back to what has made us the greatest nation on earth or we will lose much of the freedom we hold dear. Ron Paul stands above all of the other candidates in his commitment to liberty and to America.”

“Leading America is difficult, and I know Ron Paul is the man for the job,” he added.

Mr. Goldwater is the son of the late former Republican presidential candidate and Arizona Senator Barry Goldwater. Barry Goldwater, Jr. served in the House of Representatives for six terms with Texas Congressman Paul, and is currently on the Board of Directors of the Goldwater Institute. After representing northern Los Angeles County in Washington, D.C. for 14 years, Mr. Goldwater retired from politics in 1983 to pursue a successful career in business and humanitarian ventures.

“The Ron Paul campaign is exceptionally honored by Mr. Goldwater’s endorsement,” said Paul campaign manager Lew Moore. “Dr. Paul and Congressman Goldwater fought together in the Congress for the ideals of limited constitutional government that Mr. Goldwater’s father so tirelessly advocated. The Goldwaters have left an indelible mark on the Republican Party, and theirs is a legacy which Congressman Paul will certainly inherit as President.”

The late Barry M. Goldwater, Sr. sparked the modern conservative movement and was the Republican Party presidential nominee in 1964.

Head in the sand!!!
You are right about his head being in the sand on foreign policy. That and his isolationist views come from the fact that he is an atheist.

only
Only 1 or 2 are worth voting for and that is Hunter or Tancredo! These two would be the real dream team! The fence would be built and the save act would close off the jobs and that would be that. Plus you would have the upside of the jobs being filled by Americans! It's a win win!

Free Ramos and Compean
If we can’t have HOME SECURITY first, the rest just don’t matter!
HUNTER /Tancredo 2008!
http://www.gohunter08.com
http://www.ontheissues.org/Duncan_Hunter.htm
Hunter’s best quote: Move away from the Ted Kennedy Wing of the Republican Party. (Jun 2007)

September12Republican
Yep, the only point where I disagree is on the subject of free trade where Paul has voted with democrats against any free trade agreement. His rationalization is that one shouldn't need an agreement. He naively assumes that if we drop our trade barriers everyone else will do the same. The most vocal of his supporters are neo-nazis, white supremacists, crackpot truthers, anti-semites, and other assorted loons.

Lumberjack7392, Yep. He's a wanna-be Andy Jackson. Though Ron Paul would have never "invaded" Florida. He has collected more nuts the Planters.

September12Republican
"some of us neocon cretins actually do believe that 6-plus years of NO additional major domestic terrorist attacks actually does suggest some measure of success on the part of the Bush administration"


Such low expectations. The United States rarely has domestic attacks under any president. And the worse attack,came under Bush in 2001. It's not like the U.S has a history of getting attacked every 2 or 3 years on a regular basis. So why would 6 years of not being attacked be measured as some sort of success. Only under the Bush administration is this considered a success.

You almost have to have low expectations for such a dismal president. But I guess you're apart of that 25 to 30 percent that still support him.

Head in the sand!!!
You are right about his head being in the sand on foreign policy. That and his isolationist views come from the fact that he is an atheist.

This is absolutely amazing...

Exactly WHY should a Republican vote for a libertarian?

Were I inclined to vote to any libertarian, I'd BE a libertarian, but I'm not. I'm a Republican.

Lumberjack is spot on! The only reason paul is running on the Republican ticket is because with an "L" after his name he's a "zero!"

While I actually like "SOME" of his domestic policies, there are SOME that I think are disasterous, and certainly his foreign policy is an invitation to obliteration.

No thank you.

As far as Huck goes, no thank you there too.




Bush
"Ron Paul is crazy
Ron Paul and his Star Wars Cantinia, Klingon speaking supporters represent everything that is wrong with the Woodstock Generation as presented by the Press."

Good point!

"Plus he flaps his hands like a girl and he has a voice like the Wicked Witch of the West."

This is the best reason of all not to vote for Paul. It is worthy of Medved or Charon.

"Americans enjoy their Official Moonbats, but thank heavens when they step into the voting booth they realize that spending four years apologizing to the world for letting a lunatic loose on them is just not on."

I think a case can been made that a number of people are already doing that way for Bush has conducted himself the last seven years. I've certainly had people apologize to me for voting for this incompetent.

Liar
Dr. Ron Paul is a devout Christian.

FAVORLESS1
"And again of course we have the lies of the TR's of the world telling lies that he recieves more money from military families, without the source of course."

Uh, you could go read the FEC reports. The numbers are there for all to see. Do you realize that even FOX news reported on this?

Goldwater, Jr. clearly isn’t his father.


Barry Goldwater (Sr.) said,

“I would have said to North Vietnam, by dropping leaflets out of B-52s, 'You quit the war in three days or the next time these babies come over there going to drop some big bombs on you.' And I'd make a swamp out of North Vietnam ... I'd rather kill a hell of a lot of North Vietnamese than one American and we've lost enough of them,"




Throwing rocks, Jonah?
"Huckabee is the b-----d child of Lou Dobbs and Pat Robertson."

I guess that means Huckabee must be gaining some traction, to generate such a fearful, rock-throwing response from Jonah Goldberg.

Specifically, Goldberg calls Huckabee a "statist", using, as the most extreme example, a proposed national ban on smoking.

Hmmm. Is there any more egregious example of statist intrusion by the federal government on the citizenry than the IRS? And how many candidates want to get rid of the IRS? Let's see: there's Huckabee. period.

And what about a national smoking ban? Well you know, even Rush Limbaugh says that if smoking is so dangerous, why don't we just ban it? And he's not kidding: He's talking about how stupid it is to try to tax it out of existence (all the while becoming dependent on the tax revenue) rather than to ban it. And if banning smoking is such anathema to conservatives, how many are for legalizing all the other dangerous drugs? Ron Paul, the libertarian, I suppose.

PS: I had to bleep out the quoted "b" word at the top, because Townhall wouldn't let me post it. How come Jonah Goldberg was allowed to?

It's His Supporters, Part 3

Exhibit D -- marine (Given your chosen moniker, I assume you understand that ours is a VOLUNTARY military, which makes the service of those who enlist all the more noble. But your 9:13 a.m. post is nothing more than a cowardly way of saying "shut up". Fits in well with the typical pro-Ron Paul post.)

[Btw, there are some exceptions. "Liberty" and "al" (to name two) are dedicated Ron Paul supporters who have proved themselves quite respectful of the opinions of others.]

Lumberjack7392
"The only resason that Ron Paul has an R after his name is calling himself a Republican is the only way he can keep winning his House Seat"


What are you talking about? Everything he supports is Republican. He's Pro life. He wants to trim down the size of government by eliminating the Department of Energy, Education, and the IRS.He doesn't believe in entitlement programs. He supports a balanced budget. He's a strict constitutionalist. He’s been married to the same woman for over 40 years. He voted to impeach Clinton. (I know that has to be a plus). Are these not Republican values? How about this, what does he support that isn't conservative?

You know it's kind of pathetic that you guys don’t even know your own candidates.


Stop listening to White House Lap dogs like O'reilly, Limabaugh, and Hannity and do your own research.

Economic conservatism
Economic conservatives are committed to free trade among nations and to reducing government regulation. Huckabee is clearly not an economic conservative. That's why I'm not supporting him.

Huckabee's popularity among the GOP base is a reflection of how much that base is now primarily composed of those social conservatives who actually reject economic conservatism and even reject federalism when it conflicts with their social agenda.

Christian social conservatives ARE necessarily Big-Government conservatives. They have to be. Only an activist government could implement an agenda as wide-ranging and intrusive as theirs.

A limited government of the sort favored by traditional economic conservatives like me, would be incapable of enforcing protectionism, nativism, and the personal moral codes of American citizens to decide what substances they can put in their bodies or whom they can sleep with or whether they can enjoy gambling online.

Jonah Goldberg
Just who do you recommend that conservative Republicans vote for? You've stirred things up but given no answer.

We sure don't want Giuliani. Romney is a little too slick for words to describe. McCain dug his grave on illegal immigration (though he tried to re-cant). Fred Thompson so far hasn't even seen fit to take his name off the list of Notable current Council members of the Council of Foreign Relations according to the Wikipedia. And to most of us Ron Paul, though he obviously has the most active posters on articles as fans, is a death-wish to most of us.

Come on now. Make it a really Happy Thanksgiving and state who you are FOR.


What Anne seems to forget...
Barry Goldwater, Sr. who is widely credited with reviving the conservative movement and Ronald Reagan, BOTH referred to themselves as libertarian-conservatives. Small "l", libertarianism is the very basis for every single traditional conservative principle.

- limited constitutional government
- personal privacy
- personal responsibility
- strong national defense
- fiscally responsible government
- individual liberty

Paul has been in the Republican Party since at least the 70s. Exactly how many years does one need to be in the Republican party to be considered a Republican? However, most people on this site should realize that there have always been more than one wing in the Republican party. We had had big government Republicans, who used to be referred to as "Rockefeller-Republicans" and we had small government Republicans, referred to as "Goldwater-Republicans" or simply called conservatives.

If you want to elect a big government Republican to office and continue on the same path we are on, well, you have many from which to choose. If you want a traditional conservative, Ron Paul is your man. And that truth was just endorsed by none other than Barry Goldwater, Jr.

By the way, have you checked out the U.S. Dollar Index lately?

jdkchem
"The most vocal of his supporters are neo-nazis, white supremacists, crackpot truthers, anti-semites, and other assorted loons."


What evidence do you have to support this? You have to stop listening to conservative talk radio and the fox news network.

Anne writes:
While I actually like "SOME" of his domestic policies, there are SOME that I think are disasterous, and certainly his foreign policy is an invitation to obliteration.

Paul is a throwback to the America First Committee isolationist policies of the 1930s. We all know how well those policies worked out.

for Anthony Thomas
Anthony Thomas writes: " How about this, what does he support that isn't conservative? "

He supports deep cuts in U.S. military strength; cutting and running from Iraq; allowing Iran to get nuclear weapons; and telling nations around the world that we won't come to their defense while still expecting them to help us defend ourselves against al-Qaeda.

The Republican Party has always been the party of a strong national defense. And in the modern era, that means the capability to keep conflicts away from American shores, with "forward defense" in which we prefer to battle the enemy on other continents than our own. And it means NEVER losing a war that we have already started, regardless of how controversial the rationale for that war was.

Ron Paul doesn't believe in that.

Don't let the media decide for you...
The media has done a good job of painting Paul in a certain light. Clearly, the power brokers do not want him to win.

At the very least, go to the source and read some of his writings and decide for yourself.
http://www.RonPaulLibrary.org

You can also listen to some of his radio interviews, here:
http://www.RonPaulAudio.com

Or, just try to remember what this country used to stand for: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/5866141

Ron Paul
presents an interesting case. His views are far out, true. What could he do as president? Veto bills for worthy/necessary projects loaded with pork barrel riders. This would greatly empower the responsible minority in Congress. His very election would send a shudder through the DC establishment, being a signal as to just how much the electorate disapproves of the latest trends. His quixotic moves might well force the congress to act responsibly to get anything done. As to foreign policy, no democracy gets anhywhere with foreign adventure unless the populace is strongly in favor. Should this happen, congress does not need Paul to declare war. As commander in chief, he would either wage war effectively or face impeachment.
All above just musings. One thing certain, it sill take some sort of unheaval to reverse the current downward trends in this great country.

Just say NO to the Huckster...
Regularization Rudy, and Sen. Juan McQuisling, all of whom have embraced ILLEGALS. Ron Paul does not sell on TV, but he understands the importance of enforcing our EXISTING laws vis-a-vis ILLEGALS. Even independents now correctly list stanching ILLEGALS as the greatest concern facing America.

Generally, the libs and RINOS are contorted on ILLEGALS because they have been stunned by the righteous indignation of > 70% of Americans who CLEARLY want the border closed, EXISTING laws enforced, and have little interest in "Regularization" (see all 'Crats, Presidente Jorge, Sanctuary City Rudy, Sen. Juan McQuisling, and the Huckster favoring Scamnesty) for border crashers and visa violators who foist IMMENSE socio-economic pathologies on America.

America can ONLY benefit on balance from EDUCATED, SKILLED immigrants who arrive LEGALLY and embrace becoming Americans. Nobody is fooled by drivers license shell games aimed at voter fraud for the left, or "Dream Act" tuition (veiled path to scamnesty) for young ILLEGALS "who have done nothing wrong." The remote "elite" PC ilk and MSM do not live among the ILLEGAL invaders, though they might pass by them doing the yard work on the way to the club. No jobs, no freebies, NO STAY!

Anne
"Paul is a throwback to the America First Committee isolationist policies of the 1930s. We all know how well those policies worked out."

Explain why you believe he is an isolationist. You keep saying this over and over, yet you do not explain your rationale. Please do so now.

Thank you.

Athony Thomas
"The United States rarely has domestic attacks under any president. And the worse attack,came under Bush in 2001. It's not like the U.S has a history of getting attacked every 2 or 3 years on a regular basis."

No, instead we had American citizens & military being attacked overseas on an almost cyclical basis. All the while we did nothing as they built their infrastructure on our soil.

Do you drink your stupid in the morning or take it before bed?

Lumberjack: Anyone can "call themselves"

anything they want... paul can "call himself" a "non-interventionist" but there is no doubt that he is an "isolationist."

And you're right on, "...isolationist policies of the 1930s. We all know how well those policies worked out."


Sorry, that should have been directed to
LumberJack.

more important
I do not think the purpose of this article was for Jonah Goldberg to support Ron Paul.

Rather, it was to expose the massive fraud that is Huckabee. As was stated, he is everything that is wrong with Bush on steroids, a big government liberal and socially prude Bible thumper. Anathema to libertarian values, that's for sure.

Ron Paul may be a kook, but he is pretty harmless, a sideshow. Huckabee is the danger, keep that buffoon off the ticket in the #1 or #2 slot.

Ron Paul is Scary if ...
you have no desire to see the law of the land, the Constitution, used as the document with which to measure all government action.

If you think the Monroe Doctrine was hogwash and that we need to be the world police, then Ron Paul is scary.

If you think it's okay for Congress to abdicate it's financial fiduciary responsibility by handing it over to the Federal Rerserve, Ron Paul is scary.

If you like ear marks, pork barrel projects, and big government programs because you thinks it's government operatives role to give back to their supporters via tax payers dollars, Ron Paul is scary.

If you like having open borders so that any person, without regard to lawful intent, can come here and set up shop, Ron Paul is scary.

If you like the fact that the federal government controls aspects of your local public schools while contributing just 10% of the monetary resources, Ron Paul is scary.

As a conservative Christian, Ron Paul doesn't look scary to me at all.

When I see this...
"The most vocal of his supporters are neo-nazis, white supremacists, crackpot truthers, anti-semites, and other assorted loons."

I know I am listening to a typical talk radio listner who is too lazy or gullible when I read or hear this nonesense, for this is what comes out of the open sewer of lies and disinformation known as (neo) "consevative" talk radio.

Anne
Are you thinking that the Iraq war is the same as the Vietnam war? Are you forgetting what Ronald Reagan said about Middle Eastern politics, AFTER he pulled our troops out of there?

I'm the GOP consultant in Jonah's piece
I served as Ron Paul's Senior Aide for 6 years, 1997-2003.

He ran as a basic South Texas Conservative, even "Bush Republican" in 1996 the first time. Admittedly a little quirky, but still your standard Republican. He had Tom DeLay, Dick Army, Katy Hutchison, all the GOP bigshots down to campaign for him, to win over skeptical GOPers.

Post 9/11 he took a sharp turn to the left. Gone was the mantra of "Taxpayer's Best Friend" replaced by ultra-conspiratorialist isolationist foreign policy. And everything according to Paul, all of a sudden was "Israel's fault."

I became disillusioned with his leftist tilt, and resigned after he decided not to vote for the War in Iraq.

I'm now supporting Rudy, who leans more closely to mainstream libertarian principles of less taxes, less spending a a strong national defense.

Eric Dondero, Acting Chairman
Libertarians for Giuliani

anne
you clearly have not heard anything about ron paul that the msm doesn't want you to know. he's like kucinich of the democratic party in that everyone likes his ideas the best (except unamerican warmongers) but are afraid to vote for them

IGoCommando
"Do you drink your stupid in the morning or take it before bed?"


No I don't. I was specifically responding to comments about DOMESTIC ATTACKS? Can you read? Or do you just like name calling and insulting because you have little between your ears.

Shrillary is REALLY scary!
Even libs like Howard Fineman admit that Shrillary is the first person in history to turn adultery into a U.S. Senate seat. She has been in the Senate for 7 years-- big deal! America has only EVER elected 2 sitting Senators to POTUS, and JFK got elected amid spurious circumstances, just like Presidente Jorge, the ILLEGAL alien traitor. What executive experience does Shrillary have? What business has she run? Oh, she did work for the crooked law firm in Little Rock akin to Grisham's "The Firm." That's it! She already knows how to lie and parse! And she would have the master prevaricator Slick Willie there to help her... yep, she is surely qualified! She will be able to define what "is" is.

Shrill has feigned a move to the center to get elected, but make no mistake about it-- she is a card-carrying, Big Brother lib at heart. Slick Willie would go with the flow as long as he could take the credit, but not the Wicked Witch-- she KNOWS that "the era of big government is (NOT) over."

More Fair than Usual...
I don't agree with some of Jonah's arguments, but he seems to have at least thought about this some. Kudos on dismissing the knee-jerk criticisms from Charen and Medved. I agree with the person who said he should have said who he's supporting. I think all of the "top tier" candidates are flawed when held up to most standards of conservatism. I find it bothersome that some of you slam Paul so much while supporting candidates who are highly flawed themselves.

For All Those Who
...are trying to read Jonah Goldberg's thinking behind this, his most current article, I would advise you to read its title, to wit: "Ron Paul Isn't that Scary." All the man is doing is offering some food for thought to those conservatives who are of the most minarchist mindset, as distinct from the progressive. Like most decent thinkers, Jonah does not spoonfeed answers to his readers as if they were high-chair-bound infants; rather, Mr. Goldberg presents us with food for thought, invites everyone to partake, but ultimately leaves the final decision to eat or not up to the individual reader, just as if the reader is an adult - that monster!

ericdondero
everything is israels fault combined with our stubborn dark age methods of meeting our energy needs.
giulliani is a weasel. i hope he gets the nomination. not only will the democratic party waltz into the presidency but the gop will be permanently split because reasonable secular republicans will try to split from the idiot terry schiavo wing of the party.

I've never been afraid
I've never been afraid of Ron Paul, its people like Rudy and Mitt that scare me! Great article! Closest thing to a fair shake I've seen Townhall give Dr. Paul.

I think Ron Paul should run for govenor

......of Texas. Anyone would be better than who we have now. Besides the foreign relations exposure is minimal.

Now check out Duncan Hunter's new videos. I had not seen them, and he does impress me with his presence and answers to interviews. Hunter is looking better and better.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6lrDomZ3YQ&feature=related

Besides, it turns out he's the son of a WWII Marine, was a Marine in Vietnam and his son, a marine, is on his fourth or fifth tour in the ME, presently in Afghanistan after four tours in Iraq.

None of that matters much except to note that these are people who put it on the line. I hope the nation gets a better look at Hunter real soon.

Go Hunter & Semper Fi.......




lodestar
as a liberal, i don't want hillary to be the president because she is so moderate due to her connections to the dlc, whom i abhor. she also has raised money from corporate interests like a republican would.

ron paul isn't all that scary.
nobody short of five feet tall is. ha

Liberty: I will answer this ONE post..

then BACK OFF because I’m NOT getting into a spitting contest with you!!!

The point was, Barry Goldwater’s approach to the VietNam War was to FINISH it, not cut and run! So to equate paul with Goldwater is utterly ridiculous and preposterous.

Add to that, the N. Vietnamese were not determined to obliterate Israel and "wipe America off the face of the earth." The N. Vietnamese were not promising “Death To America.” The radical Islmacs are doing JUST THAT!

Now, given Goldwater’s approach to the VietNam War… ”And, I’d make a swamp out of North Vietnam” and the radical Islamics’ goal, “Death To America,” do you really think Goldwater would cut and run out of the Middle East as paul is advocating, much less advocate closing all foreign US bases, and bringing all the US troops home?

I don’t believe he would even consider it!

Now, you are entitled to believe what you want, and back paul! In fact, that’s why we’re fighting this war on terror… so you HAVE THAT RIGHT!

Many of us disagree with paul, and for a myriad of reasons believe that he would be disastrous, and WE HAVE THAT RIGHT!

Brow-beating is NOT going to change anyone’s mind, one way or another!!!!!!!






HUCKLEBERRY HOUND - MEDIA DARLING

.....HUCK is the media darling du jour ...the media is always on the prowl to generate news about a "maverick" or obscure candidate who suddenly catches fire (with their help) ...

.....Darlings of the past include Howard Dean and John McCain ...and like his predecessers Huck will burn brightly in Iowa and then like a Roman Candle flame out and become a footnote in election history trivia ...

.....Huck is the Religious Far Left ...he is a pro-life ...anti-gay Liberal ...he is GW on steroids ...he would use the power of Government to enforce his religious morality ...isn't that what the Mullahs and the Taliban want to do? ...

.....Paul becomes a rational defender of the Constitution compared to a Huckleberry Theocracy ...

.....Pauls problem is that he runs on a completely Constitutional Government and there is no broad public support for such an agenda ...the masses have been indoctrinated with Socialist ideas and accept Big Brother Government as a means to tend to their needs ...

.....To the Purists Paul is a savior ...but to the masses he is a quaint eccentric.....COLOSSUS

Ron Paul wants to Stop the War
Look at how the 'good Germans' behaved during WWII. While millions of innocents were murdered and ruined they went shopping, ate huge meals, had lots of fat healthy babies and continued to decry the masses they were exterminating and who were living in the hells paid for by their tax dollars. See a resemblance?
It is amazing how many people think that IRAQ had anything to do with 9/11!! No weapons of mass destruction were found - this country had decades of sanctions, the military was a joke. This 'war on terror' is killing millions of innocent people including children. Where is your conscience all of you people who are for this 'war'??
You give up your privacy, trillions of dollars, and rights to support an ILLEGAL WAR. Osama Bin Laden is still at large. Corporations like Halliburton are stealing billions from us. And you still think this is a good thing??? To support this crazy genocidal war is the most evil thing anyone can do. You think that its okay as long as they target Iraqis and others 'like them'. This is not the USA that I grew up in.

Okay, September12 ...
I agree with your "exhibits" but all of us have to determine what in our candidates we are willing to accept. There is no one candidate that will agree with all of us about all our issues. We have to decide what is most important to us and vote for the candidate that we think will work to those ends.

While it does kinda make my skin crawl to hear that I might be on the same side of issues with the likes of Traitorous or AT, some domestic issues, like actually believing the Constitution still applies, is important to some of us.

I'm still open to debate, but at this point in time, I'm on Ron Paul's side.

Anthony Thomas
Actually, I think this is the first time ever I've resorted to name calling. Normally not my cup of tea, but if the shoe fits...

As for your refutation-- nice hair splitting. Might work on your more statist friends, but grown ups tend to look at the bottom line.

SteveL
"He supports deep cuts in U.S. military strength"

What do you mean by that? Do you mean he supports cutting the military budget, because I haven't heard him say anything like this?

"cutting and running from Iraq; allowing Iran to get nuclear weapons;"

Well I don't agree with the terms "cut and Run" But had we listened to people like Ron Paul, we would not be in this mess in Iraq in the first place.

Also Paul seems to be a logical thinker unlike the Neocons who seem to just follow war propaganda. He understands that Saudi Arabia is much more of an issue than Iran. Are you aware that half of the suicide bombers in Iraq are Saudis? Did we forget that those who attacked us on 911 were Saudis? So while Iran is a problem, Paul is more concerned about those who have in the past, and, are currently attacking us. That would be the Oil Cabal in Saudi Arabia.

"telling nations around the world that we won't come to their defense while still expecting them to help us defend ourselves against al-Qaeda."


No, he just wants to adhere to the constitution by getting the approval of Congress before we take any military action against any nation. I know we haven't been used to that sort of thing under Bush, but I'm guessing this is what the founders wanted.

The Demonization of Dr Ron Paul
Its really amazing to see Jonah characterize Dr Paul's campaign as hopeless especially since most of the Neocons have tried to ignore Dr Paul in hopes that he would just go away. So, now why all of a sudden do they even bother writing about him?

They complain that right wing nuts like Dr Paul's message of liberty and freedom and that he has actually appeared on some shows that are not liberal MSM. Well, no wonder he appeared on some of those shows because at first those shows were the only ones who would allow him to spread his message. Just look whats happening now, all of a sudden the Neocons are pushing Huckabee and placing him in the top tier. I mean come on! Its so obvious that they would like to blackball Ron Paul from the debates and coverage. What they dont realize is that by doing this he is actually gaining more followers because most people do not trust the press in America.

When they see that Dr Paul is not even afforded the respect of allowing his views to be heard then most of them figure he must be a good guy.
Not only that, some have complained about a $500.00 dollar donation to his campaign by an alleged racist but they don't complain about our President who is already set for the one half billion dollars the Saudi Royal family has donated to the building of his presidential library. Well, its the same old double standard they use when they try to demonize people they disagree with. Thank God there is a higher power. LOL :O))

Stearman
"As you may have noticed, I have spoken ill of the Big Government idea by quoting Ronald Reagan. I am sitting here waiting for them to come and arrest me."

What are you, some kind of conspiracy nutjob or paulite? No one would arrest you for quoting Ronald Reagan thats ridiculous. I mean, well, er, ahem, well at least not yet. Ha ha ha!

Now if you quoted, Washington, Adams or Jefferson, that would be a whole different matter and make you suspect. Hmmmm, we should keep an eye on you.


Anne
I always appreciate your viewpoints, when you back them up with your reasoning.


ericdondero
"I'm the GOP consultant in Jonah's piece
I served as Ron Paul's Senior Aide for 6 years, 1997-2003."

Until you were fired.

"Reason: Your former staffer Eric Dondero is challenging you for your House seat in 2008.

Paul: He's a disgruntled former employee who was fired.

Reason: But he says he's running because of your debate performance. So is this presidential campaign weakening your standing in your district?

Paul: Well, if it affects my standing in my district then I wouldn't be a very good candidate for the presidency. If these views are popular, and I think they're popular enough, then they should be popular in my home district. They've been hearing me saying this for a lot of years and I keep getting re-elected rather easily. I think politicians are always concerned about how they're doing in their district, but right now, if Eric Dondero is the only thing I have to worry about, then I don't have a lot to worry about.

Reason: What Dondero's said is that "there are essentially two Ron Pauls. There's the national liberal media (and libertarian blogosphere) Ron Paul. And then there's the South Texas good hometown doctor, red, white, and blue Ron Paul." And he's said you talk a good game about supporting veterans but they don't know your positions.

Paul: All one would have to do is go to the veterans part of my website. I win so many awards; we have so many people who call us from around the country because of the work we do for veterans. My biggest beef is that the veterans get shortchanged because of our war spending, and we end up with Walter Reed problems. So that statement makes zero sense."
http://www.reason.com/blog/show/120338.html




This made me pause
To the many Ron Paul supports out there that seem to in denial over the fact that some Ron Paul supports are crazy. Please check this out.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2007/11/the_ron_paul_campaig n_and_its.html

No self repecting candidate for President should be taking money from skin-heads. Give the money back!

it's to bad he has people like that behind him, I like about 75% of what he has to say. At least we still have Tancredo.

Tancredo in 08

The Military supports Paul !
Are the Ron Paul haters aware that he has received more campaign contributions from members of our military than any other candidate? It' seems our brave military men and women believe in his foreign policy. But the Chicken Hawk necons don't, I guess because like Bush, they don't actually have to fight the immoral, illegall, moronic wars that they wage.

ANTHONY THOMAS

.....Give me a break Tony ...you know you support either Hillary or Obama so what is your con? ...are you pushing Paul because you think TH posters are stupid? ...

.....BTW your pal Ralphie's Foreskins put up a pretty good fight against the Cowboys ...I thought they would drop into the fetal position and suck their thumbs but they actually made a game of it so I'll give them credit .....COLOSSUS

It's His Supporters, Part 4

FROG -- You get added to my list of responsible Ron Paul posters. Thank you for your well-stated 10:28 a.m. post.

There are MANY reasons why you are justified in supporting Dr. Paul. This great nation was built on his principles, and we all would be wise to listen carefully to what he has to say.

But I remain uncomfortable with his foreign policy positions. And many of his supporters still trouble me immensely. E.g.,

Exhibit E -- NikitaleChat (Code Pink is looking for new members; you'd fit in perfectly).

Anthony Thomas
Paul wants to shut down a number of bases overseas that date back to the Cold War. He also wants to get troops out of Korea. That will save billions of dollars. If that is a cut in "defense", I am totally in favor of it.

freedomlost
Yes, but on the other hand Paul doesn't have a real nutcase like Norman Podhoretz as his chief foreign policy advisor

Ron Paul & Mike Huckabee vs Conservative
The reality of Ron Paul is that he has
sold out principle for ego. He's borrowed a page from McCain 2000 and is
trying to ride Democrat money and crossover votes to an illegitimate GOP
nomination.

Paul's most rabid supporters are paid leftists or clueless cult-like zealots
who are blind to the truth.

The reality of Mike Huckabee is that he
pretends to be conservative but sells- out on critical issues.

The danger is not that GOP Primary voters agree, it is that they don't
know his record ... and may not in time.

Fred Thompson represented accountability for GOP candidates but
between attacks from other candidates and a lackluster campaign to-date has
lost momentum for now - if Huckabee's
whole record is not publicized our
nominee could be Dem-lite and we know
from 2006 the result of that.

dmc

September12Republican
Here's the thing...

Ron Paul supporters come from all walks of life and across the entire political spectrum. People who, if not for this election, would probably have very little to do with each other. But are uniting because we all understand the need to reinstate our Constitution, the Rule of Law and individual liberty. These things are the very foundation of our country and we are letting them just slip away.

I haven't seen anything like this happen since Reagan's first election. Does everyone remember how Reagan was able to unite the country? Not only did conservatives and other Republicans vote for him, but so did a large number of Democrats, people from the Green party, Libertarians and every other party. This is the same thing we need today and it is what I have seen with my own eyes, with the Ron Paul Revolution. Join with us and let's take our country back.

It's his supporters...
I'll take this one, September12republican.

Folks, Traitorous Republicans is a self-professed liberal. Go back and have a look at this first post in this discussion. Yep, it is an endorsement of Ron Paul.

Now why on earth would I support a candidate who gets props from liberals?

Just look a few posts above this one at NikitaleChat's post.

That kind of language is IDENTICAL to the rhetoric you can hear today from any rabid, hysterical member of Code Pink. You could probably recite that entire post on Cindy Sheehan's front porch and it would likely disable her anti-burglar alarm system.

I cannot and will not EVER support a candidate who sounds like and who has followers who sound EXACTLY like anything put out by Noam Chomsky or Michael Moore.

Period. End of story.

edoc
"The reality of Ron Paul is that he has
sold out principle for ego."

No, that is not true. In fact, what you just said is more than laughable. Paul is by far the most principled man in Washington, D.C. Just go peruse his speeches over the years. http://www.RonPaulLibrary.org or just go to his House site and read them.

Nice try, but you'll have to try again.

He has never sold out. Not ever.

Anne, I will respond to this one post !!
Liberty served our country loyally as a fellow marine. He has been there and done that and is like Dr Ron Paul in this respect because he does not go around bragging about his accomplishments.

While you state that we are fighting this war so he can share his opinion with everyone...he has sacrificed more than you will ever know for all of us even before and during this present war in Iraq.

Although I did not serve in the Marines I did serve in the U.S. Army so I know full well the sacrifice of our brave men and women too. This is one reason why I will do everything I can to bring them home. Also, I believe this is one reason why Dr Ron Paul gets more donations from the military than any other candidate. Also, I think this is why Barry Goldwater jr has decided to endorse Dr Ron Paul.

Anne, so please do not attempt to demonize Liberty like the Neocons demonize Dr Ron Paul.

Thankyou! :O))

Paul and the GOP
Thanks for the interesting article Jonah - kind of surprising to see it here on Townhall though.

I totally agree with your assessment of Huck - great guy but just another big govt./big spender as proven by his past actions. And, yes - he does represent the majority of the GOP right now. Not good in my opinion.

I disagree that Ron Paul would be killed in the general election if nominated. The polls show all the main GOP candidates including Paul in nearly the same position vs. Clinton at the moment. In a real match-up, however, Paul will bleed Clinton dry on the war issue since her position is very similar to the GOP front runners. The Dems and Independents will come over in droves while many pro-war Republicans will vote for Hillary or stay home. It would be one of the strangest elections ever with Paul taking Texas, Florida and Ohio while competing in NY, California and Illinois.

People underestimate Ron Paul's commitment to America and our national defense. In many ways he is much more hard-core than Huck and company. If we need to kick any butt, it will get done under Paul.

A Thomas: Pa-lease! We've been through

all that and it's NOT TRUE!

The fact is, anyone can list any employer ... and that includes listing "Military" or "USMC" etc., and it's never verified.

Heck, I could contribute the $2000 to any one candidate, but do it $5 at a time, and each time list "USMC" as my employer, so the stats would appear that 400 USMC personnel contributed to my candidate.

Besides, I'm in touch with a few troops in Iraq RIGHT NOW, and each one has said that paul is pretty much off the radar over there..







Ryan01
for the record, Norman is a bit nutcase but would you really put him in the same leauge as neo-nazis and White Supremacists? I wouldn't. that seems like your comparing apple and pick up trucks to me.

Crunchy Con
Shades of Rod Dreher! Huckabee sounds like a Crunchy Con (and I remember from the CC blog on NRO your opposition to CCs being considered "good" Republicans).

I think the Christian block within the GOP can live with a Crunchy. Probably that ol' copperhead George Will could, too. But the secular Conservatives in general -- call 'em the War Flank -- won't lie down with Mike.

Of course, exactly the same dynamic in reverse applies for Rudy.

Wow!
Jonah must have eaten his Wheaties before cranking out this amusing article! Taking on the Paulettes and the Huckleberries in one pass. He's a glutton for punishment. I look forward to watching the action the rest of the day. I might mention that I cannot find fault with anything he says here.

FOWG
FOWG says everything changed after 9/11 and he will be voting for Fred Thompson.

I'm not going to belittle Mr. Thompson at all. If he happens to be the GOP candidates, I will support him. I can not say the same for Guliani, Huckabee, or McCain however.

But I do find the reasoning of this to be quite silly. Things might of changed after 9/11 - but I still expect our constitution to be followed, I expect congress to declare war, and I expect my candidate to fight back against the liberalization of America. Ron Paul is the best candidate in this election for me.

FACT - Ron Paul $$ Are Heavily Democrat
I'd have to check the archives but the
facts about Ron Paul's sell-out, same
as McCain's, were in an article - I believe on this site somewhere.

They documented efforts to generate Dem
crossovers (not sure who were the fools
who allowed Dems or Independendents to
vote in a partisan GOP Primary in the
first place - that should be changed).

They also documented major contributions from known Leftists of the sort one finds in the George Soros
and Kos camps.

Same as Hillary's dirty money - either
give the $$ back and stop polluting our
GOP Primary with Dems or confess the
sell-out.

Claiming the high road is not the same
as owning it.

dmc

Great article!
A great article on Ron Paul. The author didn't slam him or make fun of him, but approached the topic with maturity and reason.

I believe in Ron Paul's message. And jerks like Michael Medved can keep throwing around their childish insults, but the real "losers" are the Republicans that have had power on and off for 100+ years and have never lived up to their small government mantra.

Go Ron Paul!

"right-wing progressive"?!
I call that type a patronizing conservatoid. True conservatism is incompatible w/ nanny-statism, but there are plenty who want Big Government to do "right-wing" stuff 'for our own good.'

"Paul's dogma generally renders those shortcomings irrelevant. He is a true ideologue in that his personal preferences are secondary to his philosophical principles"

Is that a bad thing? I hate the disingenuous stance that says "ideology" is somehow bad. I suspect "ideology" & "ideologue" & "dogma" focus-group poorly, so those words are used of positions the elites dislike, like smaller gvmt. The beliefs & principles of government growers of every stripe are seldom called "ideology."

Furthermore, there's no such thing as not having an 'ideology' or guiding principles. Show me a person without an ideology, & I'll show you a corpse. It's just that some people are more willing to campaign honestly on theirs, as opposed to lying or dancing around them because nobody would want them if honestly stated. "I'll take it from the productive & give it to you, so you'll keep supporting me as a career politician" or "I know better than you & should micromanage your life" are ideologies, too.

Ron Paul isn't perfect; I have grave misgivings about some of his policies, esp foriegn, but it's interesting how he can be considered 'fringe' while Guiliani, Huckabee, and McCain are supposedly 'mainstream.' By whose definition?!?

Anthony Thomas: Most of the prep & run-up to the 9-11 attacks took place while Waco Willie was still President. He is responsible for much of the bad policy & non-response that failed to stop them. I have issues w/ GWB, but compared to Bill Clinton...

Freedomlost
No, I wouldn't. Norman as Guiliani's advisor is a lot more dangerous than a few klansmen and neo-nazis. Norman advocates bad policies that will get a lot of people killed to someone who could be the next president. Black and his handful don't have any influence on Paul, judging by Paul's statements from the past to today.

Anne....I have a question???????
So, are you saying that its an "inside job"????

LOL :O)) Whatever!!! Careful now...they will say you are a conspiracy nut!!! LOLOLOLOLOL

edoc
"They documented efforts to generate Dem
crossovers (not sure who were the fools
who allowed Dems or Independendents to
vote in a partisan GOP Primary in the
first place - that should be changed)."

The same "fools" who allowed the Republicans to cross over and vote Cynthia McKinney out of office in 2002 in GA. I bet you didn't complain about that when it happen.

It's called an open primary and it can cut both ways.

Anne....I have a question???????
Are you saying that the military did not donate all that money to Dr Pauls campaign?

Are you saying that it was an inside job??????

LOLOLOLOL.........Careful! They will start calling you an Conspiracy Nut!!! :O)) LOLOLOLOL

Anne
"The fact is, anyone can list any employer ... and that includes listing "Military" or "USMC" etc., and it's never verified."


Do you have any verifiable proof that people actually did this? If not, your point is irrelevant. What, do you believe that there is some sort of conspiracy to misrepresent Ron Paul supporters? The fact remains that more military men and wonmen have contributed to his campaign than any other candidate.

edoc
Why don't you go to the FEC website and stroll through the contributors? Try to pull up whatever dirt you can and then come back and tell us all about it. Paul's contributions are from the American people. Not special interests, not big lobbies...WE THE PEOPLE.

While you're at it, why don't you also peruse how he spends his donor's money. It should give you some insight into how he would value yours, mine, and everyone's taxpayer money. While Giuliani, Romney, McCain and Thompson are living high on the hog off of their donor, Paul eats at places like IHOP. lol!! Yes, that's really the way he is. Always has been and always will be.

aslan: You clearly didn’t read my post…

What I said was, “In fact, that’s why we’re fighting this war on terror… so you HAVE THAT RIGHT!” Did I have to be THAT specific as to say “…. So you HAVE THE CONTINUED RIGHT….?” I thought that was understood.

And, as I posted to Thomas, the assertion that Paul gets more donations from the military than any other candidate is NOT true….

And, one more thing. The majority of the troops in Iraq and Afghanistan do NOT WANT TO COME HOME. They want to STAY AND GET THE JOB DONE, which is why so many are volunteering to return multiple times.

The thing is, those troops ARE THERE, and they’re BIG BOYS and GIRLS, and they have a much better handle on what’s going on and if what they’re doing is worthwhile than any of us back her.



edoc
Just so you know. I've been a Republican all my life and I'm here to tell you, my $2300 contribution has been made to Ron Paul's campaign. When the campaign starts accepting donations for the General Election, I'll be right there too.

Ron Paul in GQ Magazine
Get your copies now!!!!

You think I'm kidding? I never lie.

Ron Paul isn't that scary.

His fans are very scary, except for Al.

Huckabee isn't that scary.

But I like neither which is why I will not be voting for them.

baseballdoc
"Give me a break Tony ...you know you support either Hillary or Obama so what is your con? ...are you pushing Paul because you think TH posters are stupid? ..."


Actually No. I don't support Hillary Clinton for president specifically because of her horrible voting record. I do however support Obama in the Democratic primary and I hope that Ron Paul wins the Republican primary. Unlike Hillary, Paul has been against the war from the very beginning.

But since I'm not a registered Republican, I can't vote for him in the primary. As a liberal, if I had to choose between Ron Paul and Hillary Clinton, I would choose Ron Paul. Republicans take note.

Anne
"Besides, I'm in touch with a few troops in Iraq RIGHT NOW, and each one has said that paul is pretty much off the radar over there.."

I'm not doubting that the people you know do not like him. However, that does not change the facts. He has received more donations from the military than any other candidate. I know that you don't like it, but it is the truth, nonetheless.

C'mon Anne. Even FOX news has reported it. So has every other news outlet.

Maybe it's because of things like this, Anne, in addition to his stance that we should protect our own country, defend our own borders, build our own bridges, rather than meddling in other country's affairs who have not attacked us and then rebuilding their infrastructure with our tax dollars.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C73e-Cnb0K4

Paul has always stood for our military and our veterans.

It's His Supporters, Part 5

Okay, it's time to admit that an anti-Paul poster is occasionally offensive.

Exhibit F -- Mr. Nobody.

Anne....I believe you when you when.....
you say Afghanistan! We do need to finish the job and find that S.O.B. Osama! This is what we should have been doing all along!

Not Nation building and planting Marxist seeds of Democracy!.......to a tune of (9) nine trillion dollars in our national debt to a tune of 30 billion dollars a month.

Ryan, Ryan, Ryan...
What does Guiliani's advisor have to do with what I was talking about? (i didn't think he had anything to do with Tancredo but I wasn't sure, shame on me). In the article I link to some but not all of his past statemnet can and will be used against him and it's already happening, to think that these statement and the fact that people like those are supporting him will not doom his campagin unless he denounces them is naive. He shouldn't have a problem with denounces them since he is a man of principle, Right? I hope so.

Anne
"The majority of the troops in Iraq and Afghanistan do NOT WANT TO COME HOME. They want to STAY AND GET THE JOB DONE, which is why so many are volunteering to return multiple times"


Again, any verifiable proof for these statements and ridiculous assertions? I mean saying it doesn’t make it true.

Paul vs. Huck
Ron Paul worships nightly at an altar of human skulls...or is it skinheads? He does so after returning from the moon where he accepts bribes of green cheese and promises of moon alien votes.

Huckabee worships nightly at an altar of taxpayer wallets...they are empty. He does so after returning from Mexico where he accepts bribes of pesos and promises of illegal alien votes.

Bill in Orlando
I guess when Dr Paul becomes President they will say its an inside job...kinda like Hannity keeps saying that all the text messaging on the Fox Poll was and inside job by the Paulists!!!

I am surprised his fellow Neocons did not come into the Fox news room with men in white suits to whisk hannity away to a mental institution of Politically correct thinking!!!

Afterall, sounds to me that Hannity is a Conspiracy nut!!!! LOLLOLOLOL

Bill in Orlando
I guess when Dr Paul becomes President they will say its an inside job...kinda like Hannity keeps saying that all the text messaging on the Fox Poll was and inside job by the Paulists!!!

I am surprised his fellow Neocons did not come into the Fox news room with men in white suits to whisk hannity away to a mental institution of Politically correct thinking!!!

Afterall, sounds to me that Hannity is a Conspiracy nut!!!! LOLLOLOLOL

September12
Actually, Mr. Nobody really does favor Ron Paul, but you still can keep him as a shining example.

I'd add to your list, however, most of the prime examples I know of have been booted from TH due to their vile behavior and hatred.

Carry on, you're doing a good job.

aslan: Do have even a clue as to how

childish, ridiculous, and illogical your posts are?

And, yes I'm quite aware that FNC reported on the "contribution stats" but there were also caveats that it was not verifiable!

And please try not to be so limited as to suggest that the troops in Iraq and Afghanistan with whom I'm in touch, don't know what the consensus is...

Put your brain in gear and try to follow this:
The majority of the troops in Iraq and Afghanistan do NOT WANT TO COME HOME. They want to STAY AND GET THE JOB DONE, which is why so many are volunteering to return multiple times.

So, why would they be donating to someone who wants to bring them home?

They wouldn't and they're not!!!

Let me repeat… the troops I’m in touch with say that paul isn’t even on the radar in Iraq and Afghanistan.



Edoc
"They documented efforts to generate Dem
crossovers (not sure who were the fools
who allowed Dems or Independendents to
vote in a partisan GOP Primary in the
first place - that should be changed)."


You're forgetting something. Haven't you noticed how much the GOP has shrunk in recent years? Traditional conservatives have left the Republican party in droves. They went all over the place... the Constitution Party, the Libertarian Party, Independents and heck, some of them may have preferred their socialism straight up(rather than the facade we have going in the GOP), so they went to the Democratic Party. Dr. Paul is getting people to come back into the GOP to vote for him. They see an honorable man of integrity, who will restore the Constitution in our land.

Have we forgotten that Ronald Reagan won because he was able to pull from across the political spectrum?

Want to beat Hillary? Paul is the only Republican who can do it. Hey, and you win a free country to boot.