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Wednesday, June 06, 2007
Jonah Goldberg :: Townhall.com Columnist
Immigration's Bad Guys
by Jonah Goldberg
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Enough Emma Lazarus. For many of us, the definitive pro-immigration speech comes from Bill Murray in "Stripes": "We're all very different people. We're not Watusi, we're not Spartans, we're Americans. With a capital A.' And you know what that means? Do you? That means that our forefathers were kicked out of every decent country in the world. We are the wretched refuse. We're the underdog. We're mutts. ... But there's no animal that's more faithful, that's more loyal, more lovable than the mutt. Who saw Old Yeller'? ... I cried my eyes out."

Murray's speech may lack poetry and intellectual rigor, but most Americans have a similar visceral attachment to our national immigration story. To be perceived as anti-immigration is to be seen as un-American.

So how did Republicans, who normally embrace patriotism, American exceptionalism and rugged individualism, get on the wrong side of this story? How have people who oppose illegal immigration allowed themselves to be painted as both anti-immigration and, more absurdly, "anti-immigrant?"

Liberals and - dismayingly - many "pro-immigration" conservatives will tell you it's because the "anti-immigration" right is racist, nativist, hate-filled and the like. That's basically President Bush's view.

And to be honest, there are conservative voices on immigration I wish would shut up. But they are the minority. There's a reason so many people claim that conservatives speak in "code" about immigration. It's because so few prominent Republicans or conservatives are actually saying anything objectively racist.

But Latino groups, the Democratic Party and others who favor something like amnesty for illegal immigrants have an interest in promoting the racism charge. They lump illegal immigrants with blacks and women as civil rights victims. They argue that a wall with Mexico is racist because it keeps Mexicans out of the U.S., that opposition to bilingual education is anti-Latino because it's aimed at Spanish speakers, and that complaints about illegal immigration generally are anti-immigrant and anti-Mexican because it just so happens that the majority of illegal immigrants are from Mexico.

And the really infuriating part is that so many people buy this nonsense. The reason immigration restrictions are aimed at Mexicans and Latinos is quite simple: That's where the problem is. Whether you agree with them or not, most "anti-immigration" conservatives actually think that there is an important distinction between legal and illegal immigration. Want a hint as to why? One is legal and the other isn't.

Philosophically and politically, I am on the side of every pro-immigration movement of the last two centuries. We're a better country because of previous waves of immigrants.

But since the 1980s, the debate has changed. Whereas in the past the debate was about what our policy should be, today the argument is really about whether we should have a policy at all. Because if you don't care about enforcing existing immigration laws, you're really saying that you're not in favor of having any immigration laws at all. It is difficult to think of another sphere of public policy in which liberals would be nearly so cavalier about lawbreaking.

The most important immigration policy is to enforce the policy, whatever it is. Then, if it's not working, you can change it. But by turning a blind eye to illegality while spouting empty rhetoric, you incite populist rage from citizens who don't like being played for suckers.

If I had my druthers, in 2001, Bush would have pursued a real clampdown on illegal immigration while at the same time expanding legal immigration, including from Mexico. I don't even mind the idea of a one-time amnesty for illegals, if in fact it is a one-time deal. But again, a system in which we declare it's a one-time amnesty but mean nothing of the sort means that we have no policy at all.

The White House says it cares about enforcement, but Bush's credibility - indeed all of Washington's credibility - on illegal immigration is simply nonexistent. Bush and his supporters have bought into the idea that being pro-enforcement is anti-immigrant, which is why every move he makes on the issue is the political equivalent of Foghorn Leghorn trying to walk through a field of garden rakes. Conservatives dislike being called bigots and yahoos by liberals. They're even more vexed when such barbs come from the leader of their own party.

But those same conservatives have stepped on their own garden rakes because they've allowed themselves to be cast as the villains in one of America's greatest stories.

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About The Author
Jonah Goldberg is editor-at-large of National Review Online.
 
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Has anyone asked.........
the illegal contaminants in my country if they want to become citizens and Americans?


Real racist exposed
This is from comments on Cal Thomas's column yesterday. After I saved it it was removed from the site.

“Loyal Democrat writes: Tuesday, June, 05, 2007 12:34 AM
Amnesty opponents are racists!
The hysteria over the influx of illegal immigrants only serves to provide fodder for the argument that the anti amnesty crowd is racist. Those that issue protests over the illegality of the method used by those that are migrating over our southern border, take issue with the increase in crime that occurs, and reject the notion that illegal aliens should have access to American social service programs are racist at heart.

“The pro amnesty coalition recognizes that individuals of Hispanic descent simply have a pressing need to circumvent our immigration laws because their own country can never become a prosperous, self-sufficient entity. Since the Mexicans lack the skills necessary to operate a productive nation, we should welcome them into ours. By doing that, we recognize their lack of talent and bless them with our own superior skills at managing a government.

“As for the increase in domestic crime that results from the presence of the illegals, the pro amnesty coalition readily accepts this as a cultural characteristic of those of Hispanic origin. It is common knowledge that Hispanics lack the ability to conduct themselves within the guidelines of a civilized society, and only a racist would expect otherwise. Conversely, rather than celebrate this example of diversity, anti amnesty protesters complain about the increased crime. Such a reaction only proves anti amnesty proponents are bigoted against the Hispanic cultural difference. Such people expect Hispanics to obey the law, once again displaying their intolerance of those who are different.

“Finally, the anti amnesty crowd expects Hispanics to be productive members of society, whereas the pro amnesty force realizes that Hispanics cannot make ends meet without government assistance. Hispanics require handouts in order to survive, and given our superior ability to achieve, it is up to those of us that live north of the border to care for the illegal aliens from the south. Just as one cannot expect the family dog or pet hamster to be self sufficient, it is equally wrong to expect a Hispanic to have such skills.

“The anti amnesty protesters are racist because they expect lesser skilled cultures to be law abiding, capable of self-governance, and self-sufficient. Based on this vile bigotry, such individuals reject the influx of illegal aliens from Mexico. The pro amnesty voices realize that Hispanics need our assistance to survive, and such proponents are willing to make allowances to the inferior people of Hispanic descent. Smug racism is always repugnant.”

Make No Mistake About It
The Liberal Democratic Party lawyers who have had over 40 years of autonomous power in all echelons of our government have created a system so corrupt yet Lock-tite that nothing can penetrate it - certainly not even their willing accomplices in the media. They have systematically stolen the power of our Republic from the American People by passing law after corrupt law to give incumbency an unfair advantage. They conveniently have the center of our national Federal government smack dab in the middle of one of the most Liberal areas on Earth besides NYC and Hollyweird partly as a direct result of 40 years of Democratic Party hegemony, which guarantees none of them will ever be found guilty of anything by an overwhelmingly Liberal jury, which makes them de facto ABOVE ALL LAW and unaccountable to the American People for anything. The Democratic party has infiltrated countless law universities around the country. They have brainwashed lawyers who are groomed for positions in DC by most of the Northeastern whackjob universities from which they graduate. They go on to line the halls of the cornucopia of bloated, in many cases, completely unnecessary, DC bureaucracies or Congressional, Senatorial, and Presidential staffs. WE, the American People, have been factored out of the political equation systematically by these fiendishly, wantonly devious Liberal lawyers who have created a DC welfare state of their own behind our backs exclusively for lawyers fresh out of Lobotomous-Liberal-beyond-Human-Comprehension, so-called "elite" law schools predominantly in the Northeast. America, I humbly beseech you; WE CANNOT DEFEAT THIS LIBERAL MONSTER with the current formula: write your Congressman, blog, protest, phone your Senator, fil-in-the-blank, etc. IT'S NOT WORKING, and IT'S NOT EVER GOING TO WORK.

We have a "NONUNITED" STATES of America. We can never go to war again with the Democratic party and the overwhelming majority of the Liberal media committing TREASON every time we decide we need to go to war to protect ourselves. In other words, we CANNOT EVEN DEFEND our national security with such a party as the Democratic Party openly embracing TREASON and coddling our enemies right before our very eyes without being prosecuted for such insanity. This is a no-win situation - an IMPASSE - that can only be worked out by Secession. Red State America for its own survival must leave Blue State America; this Union is untenable if Illegal Immigration passes and the Democrats in this nation are never prosecuted or held accountable for TREASON.

If Liberals want Socialism and peace with the likes of Ahmadinejad that bad and want to keep the laws of God at arm's length or keep God in a box and bless gay marriage in the Lord's name, GIVE IT TO THEM, but let them have it in their own country and with their own Liberal "living document" Constitution that they can interpret all sorts of ways with all of their idiotic Liberal lawyers in the ACLU in their own Multiculturalist, Morally Relativistic Socialist, neo-hippie utopia where anything goes and all drugs are legal and all terrorists can roam freely like they do in Canada plotting the mass annihilation of their populations!

America, you are at a crossroads. It is time to choose: LIFE or DEATH? The Democratic Party will be the Death of this nation. It cannot be reversed; it has gone too far in its degree of infiltration. It's tentacles are even in your children's textbooks and even in your church pulpits to say nothing of its influence in the culture at large. The Lord said that evil is as far from me as the east is from the west. Evil can never be compromised with. Evil always wins with compromise. It's time to walk away from this untenable situation, and start two new Americas: Red State America and Blue State America. America, it's time for your divorce; you have been in a horribly abusive relationship with the Liberals of this nation who have betrayed you and spat on you and killed your boys by aiding our enemies and are threatening to KILL you the longer you stay with them.

When the terrorist bombs hit our major cities and kill millions because of the arrogant political TREASON and dereliction of duty of our elected political prostitutes, it will be too late!!! Don't write your Congressmen or Senators or useless President; what has it done foryou lately??? Instead, make the most of your precious time and write your Governors, State Senatorial leadership, and State House Speakers in your native State and demand a national meeting of Conservative governors be convened for the express purpose of addressing Articles of Secession to form a new nation of Red State TRUE Americans; OUR survival depends on it. Let the irresponsible embrace of TREASON destroy Blue State America - NOT US!

Illegal immigrants and me
My grandfather (my mother's dad) was an illegal immigrant. He never had his papers in order; and what's more, he was a Communist too.

If it had been up to the nativists ranting about "culture," my grandfather would have been expelled from the U.S., he would never have met and married my grandmother, and I wouldn't exist today.

Since I like to think my life is worth something, I also have to admit that my life is the product of this illegal immigration. Thus I have a real problem insisting that illegal immigrants should be kicked out. And nobody who opposes this current immigration bill has suggested what to do with the 12 million illegal immigrants who are already here in America other than mass deportations.

There is definitely an argument against this immigration bill to be made on the grounds that it's likely to be very difficult to enforce, given the government's failed track record on enforcing immigration laws to date. But if the government has such trouble enforcing immigration laws, there is no reason to believe they can do a better job enforcing the current laws than the new laws. Either way they have a big reform job ahead of them. All those opponents of this bill who are ranting "Enforce the current laws" haven't explained just how to do that--as if nobody else ever thought about doing that before. If they have a better idea HOW to enforce the current laws or new laws or any other laws, let them explain it. But I'll say this: Anybody who thinks that building a fence is the answer to our problems should google for the phrase "Maginot Line."

And I simply cannot accept the nativist and cultural arguments being tossed around. There is absolutely nothing wrong with Hispanic culture, or the Hispanic language; both are ancient, honorable parts of Western civilization.

You know, SteveL...
...your correct. There is nothing wrong with the Hispanic Culture or Hispanic Language. The problem is, this is not a Hispanic country. It is a country founded by Englishmen. The English language and US Culture are fairly popular, at least to me and other American Citizens. I would like to keep it that way.

Some may accuse me of nativism because of my beliefs, so what. I love my country and do not want to see it balkanized, which is the road we are headed down. A people divided can not stand.

As I watch the numerous 'hispanic' people marching in MY streets, waving foreign flags and demanding rights, services and benefits from MY country, things they have not earned and definitely do not deserve, I have to think that the time has come to send these ungrateful wretches back to thier own countries at the end of a gun.

It may not be possible to expel these INVADERS on our shores, but take away the goodies that draw them and they will return on thier own. Perhaps if the best and brightest of these 'hispanic' countries go home, they can make thier own countries places to desire to immigrate towards.

Immigration
It occurs to me that other immigrants to this country in the past assimilated much more readily into our society than the current wave. Other immigrants did not arrive here and magically begin speaking English but were required to attend school where only English was spoken, thus the children could educate the parents. Governmental affairs were only conducted in English but translators were allowed(please provide your own). Governmental largesse (welfare) was unknown but the community supported its members (and ostracised malfeasants). All cities with large immigrant populations had enclaves where only German, Polish,Italian,etc. were spoken and their attendant cultures preserved but each enclaves citizens desired to become American.
The point is that we cannot(officially)support a plethora of languages and cultures and hope to maintain our own. The problem is not immigration (let all come legally and documented) but rather assimilation. Being PC only exacerbates a festering problem

SteveL
How many people escaped East Germany after the communists built the Berlin Wall?


Hunter Exposes McCain On Immigration


Republican Presidential candidate Duncan Hunter articulates as well as anyone all that’s wrong with the senate’s comprehensive immigration reform bill.

Please see his statement below.

HUNTER EXPRESSES “FIERCE DISAPPOINTMENT” OVER SENATE AMNESTY PROPOSAL

Duncan Hunter: I vow to oppose this legislation supported by Senators Edward Kennedy and John McCain. It provides a vast new immigration benefit to millions of illegal aliens who have broken our laws to live in the United States. I opposed the 1986 amnesty act because of this same reason. It proved to be the draw that we predicted it would be. I am deeply disappointed to see history repeating itself.

This package will confirm to the world that the U.S. does not really mean what it says when it comes to immigration enforcement. As a result of the citizenship benefit included in this legislation, despite the fine print, we will see a stampede across our borders.

This vast new amnesty and expansive guest worker program will surely be ridden with fraud and abuse, and ultimately lead to millions of public-assistance-dependent immigrants.

The Senate’s decision to blatantly ignore the Secure Fence Act signed into law last year and only require construction of 370 miles of fence, as opposed to the 854 miles mandated by the law, is a dramatic failure of this legislation. The San Diego border fence has proven that fencing works. The time has come to quickly implement the Secure Fence Act, not retreat from its mandates.

I believe that this package will result in lower wages for America’s already-struggling families by encouraging the importation of cheap foreign labor rather than investing, developing and growing a domestic workforce that will sustain our economy far into the future.

Amnesty is not the answer. Border enforcement must be first and it must be comprehensive. To do otherwise is to repeat the mistakes of the past. This Senate bill is bad for Americans, bad for our workers, bad for law enforcement and, most importantly, bad for national security. I will fight it.

Please join with me and help stop this bill.

Please forward and to find out you can help click here

http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/hunter-exposes-mccain-on-immigration


Very Weak
The relevant points I glean from Goldberg are that he wants to expand legal immigration INCLUDING more from Mexico and he is not against another "ONE TIME" amnesty. So you think the $2.4 trillion pricetag is just hunky dory? So you see no problem with the absolutely unprecedented level of immigration (legal and illegal) over the past 20 years that has resulted in large swaths of unassimilated immigrant enclaves throughout our nation.

Is our goal to be a United Nations of America with a population density to rival Bangladesh? It seems to me that Mr. Goldberg's objections to the current proposal is more procedural than philosophical. I'm glad that Mr. Goldberg's views don't represent the rest of the staff and columnists.

Thasic
You are right on, and that was well put. Mexican leaders continue to ignore that they are not improving things and making it so their best and brightest want to stay. THAT is really sad.
I just have no sympathy left for these people who demand what is not theirs.


This is NOT immigration


Migration is a movement of people from one place to another. Immigration is citizens of one country applying for legal entry to another country with the intent to become a citizen of that country. The debate is not about immigration at all. It's about moving the cheap labor here. Old fashioned notions like citizenship and borders get in the way of that. Bush is telling us illegal aliens do not want to be Americans, they just want to work here. The real answer is for foreigners to clean up their own countries so they do not need to flee them. Citizens of other countries do not have any right to "migrate" into our country without permission. If America announces to the world, "We can't stop you, so come on in", with another amnesty, the deluge will be overwhelming. If 3,000 a day didn't get your attention, then wait until it's 10,000 a day. We cannot sustain this influx and survive as a nation. We must speak up and speak to each other about this and not let false claims of racism or bigotry be used to intimidate us into silent assent. America is not Congress' to give away. America belongs to We The People.

They have purposely let the situation get worse to try to force us into another amnesty/guestworker/regularization, whatever euphamism it is this week. The media, unions, both parties, churches, and mostly the corrupt corporations employing them are working to undermine our sovereignty as a nation and our rule of law.

Until very recently there was practically NO enforcement.
And the numbers are much higher than 8-10 million. We are being purposely misled. Most of what you hear about illegal aliens is propaganda to get us to give up our country without a fight. In 1986 we were told it was less than 1 million, turned out to be 3.6 million getting amnesty, a few of them were involved in bombing the WTC in 1993. This time we're being told 10 million, it is more like 20-30 million. Enforcement under Clinton was insufficient but looked robust compared to this administration. We must tell the cheap labor importers NO! in no uncertain terms. Or kiss America goodbye.

How do you get to Carnegi Hall?
...Practice,practice,practice!

How do you stop illegal immigration? Enforcement,enforcement,enforcement!

How do you enforce it?

A $100,000 fine for any employer hiring them.Punishment swift and sure,even if it means putting them out of business.That is a $100,000 fine for EACH illegal.

How does an employer know if they are legal?

The federal government tells them.Until then,they are not hired.

How do we deport 12 million illegals?


We don't.They get rid of themselves by walking South instead of North,by cutting off all access to a job and WELFARE.

Key to all the above?

ENFORCEMENT!

Not willing to do all the above?

Then live with illegal immigration.

reply to: NoOne
You got snookered by Loyal Democrat... ALL of his/her posts are really irreverent tongue-in-cheek sardonic humor. All comments s/he makes are meant to be provocative only for the sake of stirring up the gullible.

SteveL
I agree with much of what you write but your post supporting illegal immigration because you are the second generation off-spring of such behavior is telling. You basically admit that since it has benefited you it is ok, rather than realizing that improper behavior is improper and cannot be justified. In essence, you've placed yourself above the law and that is wrong. That is the same mistake that Linda Chavez makes....she lets her Hispanic heritage trump reason, logic and law and you have done the same. I can understand that you enjoy the freedoms you have here in America....that is what makes America the greatest Nation in the world but many have legally obtained citizenship and there is no reason your grandfather could not have done the same thing (or his off-spring, etc). Just because he successfully immigrated illegally does not mean he could not have done so legally.

It is time for the Freedom of Migration
You write: “The most important immigration policy is to enforce the policy, whatever it is. Then, if it's not working, you can change it.” Is not the time to conclude that we should change it now? How much of “not working” do you need?

Like most Americans, you do not know the basic facts about immigration, do not understand how society works, and have complete lack of understanding of fundamental concepts that this country was built upon. You write nonsense.

The right solution is called the Freedom of Migration Act.

Read about it at http://www.henrykkowalczyk.com/immigration.htm .

See it at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6i8xbHNCxoU

Tell me, what is wrong in the Freedom of Migration Act?

Sorry, learn first then write.

Why aren't the illegals who bring
Mexico with them and refuse to learn English considered Spanish nativists?

Since this bill will get passed this week in the Senate we will see what goes on next week in the House. It is likely to pass there also. The we can see the politicians lies at work next year, just in time for the 08 election.

Nam 65-66
First, thank you for your service.

You echo exactly what I have been saying. We only deport illegal aliens when we find them. I would extend the enforcement to include prosecuting politicians and their administrations of “sanctuary” cities that openly violate federal law and use taxes paid by hardworking legal workers (both US citizens and legal aliens) to give welfare to illegal aliens.

This new immigration bill is a farce. If our government is not enforcing the current law, what good is it to pass more laws that will be ignored?

The fence is not the answer either. It will not decrease illegal immigration by itself. As former military myself, I know that barriers (fences, barbwire, tank-traps, mine-fields etc.) are ineffective unless patrolled. However, barriers reduce the number of people needed to patrol an area. So the fence will help, but will not eliminate illegal immigration.

The only answer to the problem is enforcement. And until the government can prove they will enforce the law, everything else will be a waste of time and tax-payer money.

HUNTER FOR AMERICA

Republican voters still get to decide who their nominee will be. Money only buys elections when people act like sheep. If 80% of Republicans are indeed seeking a conservative, we can nominate one. We can nominate Duncan Hunter. The money players won't like it and are trying to convince us only Rudy, Romney, or McCain can win. Hogwash. They want an open borders candidate. Give Americans a chance to vote for a candidate who WILL secure the border and watch turnout soar. Americans want their government to fulfill it's most basic responsibility.

The primary responsibility of the U.S. government is to protect the territorial integrity and people of this country. They have completely abdicated this responsibility. Both parties have been complicit in this. We are being told it is not possible to control our borders, enforce our laws, and thereby control our destiny as a nation. Hogwash. We are being sold out by corporations intent on importing workers for jobs that can't be exported with the taxpayers paying the true costs, financial and human. If we act like sheep and don't stop the inundation across our borders, we will lose our country without a bleat.

http://www.gohunter08.com

MYTHS AND STATS
NOWADAYS, only 2% OF ILLEGALS work on farms picking veggies - 98% of them had moved to big cities to work in construction, meat plants etc.
driving the wages of Americans down - from $20-25/h to $10-12.
A broken nail means a free service at Emergency Room, while Americans are waiting.
And crime???...don't get me started..

It's NOT The Language, It Is The Mindset
First and Foremost:

THESE PEOPLE HAVE NO RESPECT FOR OUR LAWS

They prove that when they break the law entering the country illegally.
They prove that when they obtain stolen or fake SS numbers.
They prove that when they drive around with no driver's license or no insurance or both.
They prove that when they hatibually drive intoxicated.
They prove that when they go down and purchase a 9mm pistola.

These are the "..decent, hard working ..." yatta de yatta...

Geraldo is, himself, a racist. He can see no wrong in lawbreaking as long as the lawbreaker speaks Spanish. He||, he couldn't even admit on O'Reilly that two teen-age girls would still be alive but for an ILLEGAL drunk driver...who had been arrested before..

Ain't is something to sit around and listen to folks whose wages have not been depressed or whose jobs have not been taken by a flood of illegal aliens, ain't it something to sit around and listen to them tell YOU that these people are only here for jobs YOU won't do?



Comprehensive Immigration Enforcement
It's never too late to do the right thing. What we need is comprehensive immigration enforcement. Any law officer coming across any illegal at anytime, detaining and deporting them, securing the border, guarding the border, workplace enforcement with stiff fines and jail time for employers. Start today and see how soon the flow is in the other direction. If we make it clear that you just CANNOT BE an illegal alien in the U.S. without harsh penalty, (particularly if we add a provision that if we have to deport you, you will never get U.S. citizenship) then many will go home on their own.

LET'S TALK ABOUT CRIME
STOLEN Soc. Sec ##, falsified documents, not paying taxes - ALL THAT IS OK with proamnesty idiots.
Mr. liberal, tell us how much you like those crimes?

Bad Law Time
Jeff Sessions documents 20 loopholes that have been added to thisa bill so that there is no intent to have enforcement.

http://sessions.senate.gov/pressapp/record.cfm?id=275456

(Link from AOS)

"Maginot Line Google" & SteveL

Is not a very good example . First of all, the Maginot Line was not built from the English Channel to the Mediterranean Sea, but only along the political border of France and Germany. The Maginot Line was like your argument, SteveL, it had "gaps". A very poor example of a barrier for argument regarding the current issue of immigration. Try again.

DVangura...
...and I thank you for your service also.

You are right about the employment of barriers.All barriers must be guarded by men.The military covers barbed wire,and other barriers,with armed men,because no barrier can stop an enemy on it's own.The military also uses barriers to channel the enemy into avenues where we can stop them by massing our defenders.

I realize that poor, men, women, and children are not classic "enemies" the way foriegn armies are,but the barriers can help us control the flow.

Maginot Line...
...Was installed by the French General Staff,on the recommendation of an obscure Colonel by the name of De Gualle(sp).It was a very good idea.His plan was to hold the German army back while the French forces attacked through the Lowlands into the heart of Germany.

As usual with the French french forces,they were a day late and a dollar short.They didn't man the Line properly and the Germans got the jump on them by attacking through the Lowlands themselves on their blitzkrieg,right to the heart of France.But that's war.

duncan Hunter
Virginia Patriot, as always, is correct. The Bushites are pushing Fred Thampson, who said he doesn't think people are concerned about the twelve million who are here are much of a problem. Duncan Hunter is precisely the man we need in the White House in this Ultimatge Crunch Time for America. Not only on the illegal alien issue, but for National security and trade policy. He is not a flashy person, but steady and thoughtful and energetic.

Hey
Hey, I apologize for mispelling Thompson. But I am wondering where it is recorded that DeGaulle recommended the installation of the Maginot Line.

Over 20% of prisoners
in California's penitentiary system are illegal aliens.

If the statistic that there are about 12 million in the country, they represent app. 4% of the population. Even at 20 million, they represent about 7%.

Does anyone other than me see a disparity here?

Conservatives are the VICTIMS here
I agree with most of what Goldberg says here, but he ends on some sour notes. How does supporting enforcement, a fence and penalties make you a villain, exactly? How did I step on my own garden rake?

Anyone who favors a fence, penalties on employers and deportation is BRANDED a villain by our political elites - chief among them George W. Bush. Anyone who favors enforecment of current laws instead of empty promises is INSTANTLY ACCUSED of racism.

How did I allow myself to be cast as the villain? He still hasn't made the case.

The corker for me though, is that Goldberg says he favors an amnesty! Earth to Jonah, hello, do you remember the 1986 amnesty??

That was supposed to be the first & the last amnesty, yet here we are 21 years later listening to our rulers labelling us as racist xenophobes.

Bush
If the Bush and the idiots in DC were really serious about doing anything about illegals that border would have been sealed (North and South) 9/12/01! Visa enforcement would have happened already as well. Call me cynical but no matter what passes it will be business as usual. The worst part of this is you will see the rise of racism in America. People will protect themselves no matter what and that will start with self segregation.

Why now?
Has anyone noticed that our political cowards in Washington are trying to ram this down a year and a half before the next election? Did anyone notice that, at the time of the last election, they passed the border wall bill? You didn't hear anything about amnesty in the fall of '06.

If we want to know how they really feel about illegal aliens, let's tee-up this bill again around this time next year. In the meantime, they can really impress me if they build the fence/secure the border, begin fining employers, begin deportations and cut-off social services.

After we see how they do over the next year, we'll have a pretty good idea of who's willing to do what must be done.



Virginia Patriot
I agree with you about Hunter, however he doesn't have the name recognition. I also notice that they give him unequal air time in the debates. I sent a donation to his campaign. I think a Thompson/Hunter is the way to go and it will set Hunter up quite nicely to step into the presidency.

This amnesty scam is supported by
both parties because both are internationalists who wish to "Bring America into line with the rest of the world". We need only remember Justice O'Connor's reasoning that we should interpret the US Constitution in light of the laws of other nations. Had any of our politicians really cared about this country, they would have demanded her impeachment!

This sell out of our birthright by the elites of both parties continues in the current illegal amnesty being foisted upon us in the halls of congress this very morning! The emasculation and deconstruction of our great nation continues while we sit here and write posts on the Town Hall "Republican" propaganda outlet crying about Ted Kennedy, John McCain, and President "Jorge" Bush.

Exactly what are we, the American people and rightful owners of this nation, going to actually do? I see many posts supporting the various Republican candidates, everyone of them beholden to the party's political machine and PACs. I must suppose that those who support these candidates really believe that any of the elites of either party will stand up for America first, but I do not believe that and cannot accept any of them.

How much longer are we going to get caught up in the myth, perpetuated by the MSM, that only these people are capable of governing this nation? How long have these same individuals been in office? What have they done in all those years other than promote their own well being and interests at the expense of the nation? How many more times are we to believe in them, elect one of them, doing the same thing again and again, and then expect a different result? Were Einstein here, he would have to ask us, are you insane?

The only surefire and guaranteed way to restore the Constitution, rule of law, and will of the people as the true principles by which we govern ourselves as a free people is to not elect another Dem/GOP President in 2008. Having manipulated the election process to assure themselves continual power, they no longer fear being held accountable to anyone because they have us convinced there is no other choice, nowhere else to go!! They have been very convincing, haven't they. After all, what do you think? Do you believe you have any other choice?

Unless and until we disabuse these elites of that notion, it is a guarantee that the future of our nation and our children will be one of more big government, less personal freedom, and greater influence of the internationalist cabal that hates America. If we do not break the hold these people have on power, they will never change their ways! Any President from either party will have to cave in inorder to "protect the party's interests". Even RR was subjected to that premise, and proudly (I say foolishly) proclaimed that "Thou shalt not speak evil of another Republican"!

Pure hogwash! As President, I would not hesitate one minute to use the bully pulpit to call out any Senator or Representative who wanted to promote, advocate, or fund any legislation that was in conflict with the Constitution and I could not care less what party he was in! On my website, JOEOLIVAFORPRESIDENT.ORG, I have openly stated in my Campaign Platform to do exactly that, to also pull the US out of international "treaties" that conflict with US law and substantially reduce UN contributions, and that is just getting started.

If we wish to do something for this nation that we all love, we need to change our way of thinking. We need to recognize that we can no longer trust the two parties! The time is now and the opportunity is this election to break free from the elites and reclaim our inheritance. NOTHING WILL SEND A STRONGER MESSAGE TO ALL OF THESE POLITICIANS than one which says, "We know can't get rid of all of you at one time, but we can take away the Presidency from you and elect someone who will represent the American owners of this country first"!! Can you imagine the shockwaves that would reverberate around the world on election night?

If we do that, we will have begun the journey home. I urge you to visit my website and check it out. It is the only place you will find a candidate not tied to political machines, PACs, or corrupt lobbyists. I am the only candidate with no career to defend, no position of wealth to maintain. I have one goal only, to return the nation to the American people by breaking the back of the power stucture that currently rules our homeland. No other goal, no other agenda, no secrets to conceal. If you think there is another way to break free from the powerful elite politicians and MSM I am most interested in hearing about that. There is a email link on the website. Think about it? Thanks for listening, Joe

Obeying laws or obeying nothing
hak writes: Wednesday, June, 06, 2007 9:40 AM
It is time for the Freedom of Migration
You write: “The most important immigration policy is to enforce the policy, whatever it is. Then, if it's not working, you can change it.” Is not the time to conclude that we should change it now? How much of “not working” do you need?

Like most Americans, you do not know the basic facts about immigration, do not understand how society works, and have complete lack of understanding of fundamental concepts that this country was built upon. You write nonsense.

The right solution is called the Freedom of Migration Act.

Read about it at http://www.henrykkowalczyk.com/immigration.htm .

See it at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6i8xbHNCxoU

Tell me, what is wrong in the Freedom of Migration Act?

Sorry, learn first then write.
-------------------------------------
I reviewed your ridiculous assertions for possible laws. Simply put, if the last SIX administrations have refused to enforce immigration law what makes you think that you're opinion, even turned into law, would be any different? Still just more haves persecuting the have nots. Your tripe is no better than the idiots from La Raza that tried to justify enslavement of South American women as prostitutes for illegals in Carlsbad, CA recently. The web site completely ignores crime and the influx of criminal immigrants overwhelming American law enforcement on just mundane matters. You'll just have Tyson Farms continuing to fly tens of thousands of workers and drug pushers into America, like they do every day now with the complicity of the Bush administration.

Take Back the Government
Hallelujah...

Somebody finally got it...

That is a very fine piece of writing, but more importantly, you are dead on target.

This is where truth comes to reason.

Articles of secession. The only answer to our life or death condition and our sanity. I would very much like to shake your hand, sir. Let us do this which we must do. and do it soon.

SteveL writes: June, 06, 2007 2:55 AM
My grandfather (my mother's dad) was an illegal immigrant. He never had his papers in order; and what's more, he was a Communist too.

If it had been up to the nativists ranting about "culture," my grandfather would have been expelled from the U.S., he would never have met and married my grandmother, and I wouldn't exist today.

………And I simply cannot accept the nativist and cultural arguments being tossed around. There is absolutely nothing wrong with Hispanic culture, or the Hispanic language; both are ancient, honorable parts of Western civilization.

DESKJOCKEY RESPONDS

Steve welcome to “AmeriKa”, I’m sure you enjoy our “giver-ment”. My grandparents also came here and although not Communist per se, they only understood the merits of socialism. Sadly our grandparents ruined a fine country with their beliefs and today we are more communist than Russia that only has a 9% tax rate and we approaching 45%. It seems the socialist/communist sent their problems to the US, no different than Mexico is doing with their socialist.

Mexico not long ago was into human sacrifice, we gave that up at least 25 years before they did. Clearly they don’t share our values or they’d not be in the crises they are in, having many centuries longer than we had to get to were we did in much shorter time. I don’t know how to say this without committing a crime, but not all cultures are equal. Importing less equal cultures doesn’t make ours better.

Here was the intent of our founders as stated by founder and SC justice John Jay, "Concerning Dangers from Foreign Force and Influence."… "Providence has been pleased to give this one connected country to one united people -- a people descended from the same ancestors, speaking the same language, professing the same religion, attached to the same principles of government, very similar in their manners and customs..."

hak writes: June, 06, 2007 9:40 AM
It is time for the Freedom of Migration
You write: “The most important immigration policy is to enforce the policy, whatever it is. Then, if it's not working, you can change it.” Is not the time to conclude that we should change it now? How much of “not working” do you need?

Like most Americans, you do not know the basic facts about immigration, do not understand how society works, and have complete lack of understanding of fundamental concepts that this country was built upon. You write nonsense.

The right solution is called the Freedom of Migration Act.

Tell me, what is wrong in the Freedom of Migration Act?

Sorry, learn first then write.

DESKJOCKEY RESPONDS:

Henryk, you keep claiming that all the TH writers are stupid and you are smart because you are a UN Utopian sycophant who moved here from Poland. You have posted this some 20 times in the past few days. Maybe you should be writing for TH and the others removed.

I’m sure you feel right at home in the People’s Republic of AmeriKa. Well there is so much wrong with your UN proposal that I don’t know where to begin. Of course you use the old Lenin tactic of false alternatives to arrive at a determined conclusion. I’m not going to get into detail as I have covered this over and over on other threads herein. So I'll just make some bullet points.

That our country politicians have been desperately trying to destabilize the country by colonizing it with the most uneducated folks of the world in the past 25 years is resolved by the voters not UN schemes or shamnesty bills. Therefore voters must weigh their tolerance of the politician’s miscreant immigration behavior against the entitlements he delivers the voters.

The ’08 election will be a battle between the Chamber of Commerce that wrote the bill to promote illegal immigration and the backlash by the party base. The politicians figure their best bet is to sell out to the Chamber hoping a huge marketing campaign its members will fund for independent voters will save the politicians from their lost base.

Free market migration is a Utopian fantasy of the UN to ultimately remove borders and prepare the world for the one world giver-ment and our DC masters are right in step with that objective. Why is it Utopian fantasy? Well it violates the teachings of the Bible, it violates the laws of nature, it violates all known history of mankind, and when such colonization has taken place it has destroyed the existing culture. You certainly don’t see the Indian culture as the dominant AmeriKan influence as the reward for their open arms of free market migration.

In essence you claim that man has a right of migration that supersedes a country’s people’s right of association protected by borders. Therefore we must first find where that UN right comes from and if there is proper authority to grant such right.

I would suggest that rather than try the UN Utopian schemes with the crown jewel of the world, would it not be more responsible to risk only a small portion of the world portfolio and maybe try it in Poland first. Wouldn’t your Polish relatives rather Arabs come to Poland for diversity, than more of your Poles come to the US? In 20 years when Sharia law is the democratic demanded law of Poland we can better decide if we want to risk our crown jewel in some UN Utopian fantasy that attracts folks like you to AmeriKa. Ruin your own country first. Remember the Polish saying, “do no one no favors, they’ll do you no harm".

Well here is what a founding father and Supreme Court justice said was the principle and it doesn’t jive with your UN Utopian jargon to remove borders for the one world UN giver-ment.

John Jay, in Federalist Paper titled, "Concerning Dangers from Foreign Force and Influence."… "Providence has been pleased to give this one connected country to one united people -- a people descended from the same ancestors, speaking the same language, professing the same religion, attached to the same principles of government, very similar in their manners and customs..."

You have a right to come to this country and express your UN Utopian fantasies, but you don’t have a right to change the history of this nation’s facts.

Ah-nuld gets it!
In a statement today (6/6) supporting Bush and scamnesty, Schwarzenneger made the amazingly hilarious observation that “We don’t have enough workers in Silicon Valley”.

There you have it, folks, straight from the Governator. Illegal aliens; writing the programs Americans won’t write!

I’m not making this up.


One-time amnesty?
Hey, Goldberg, we already HAD a one-time amnesty bill. It was called Simpson-Mazzoli, and it was passed way back in '86. Teddy Kennedy assured us all that it was a one-time deal, and would never be done again.

It was expected to affect 1.6 million illegals, but ended up affecting 3.1 million.

So now Kennedy and his pals are about to give a second "one-time only" amnesty, which they say will cover only 12 million illegals.

Wanna bet the actual number will be more like 24 million?

MStone: LOL
Wanna bet the number isn't ALREADY 24 million?

Hey Jonah,
How have conservatives allowed themselves to be cast as the villians? Did I allow Bush, Read, Kennedy, and the rest of those traitors to portray me as a villian? Of course I didn't.


I ask for secure borders. I ask that amnesty not be extended to criminals who have crossed our borders ILLEGALLY. Do illegal things deliberately and you are a criminal. There is nothing complicated about that.


People pushing amnesty, and that includes those who slip in references to amnesty being OK as long as it is a one time thing, are supporting criminal behavior. As far as I'm concerned that makes them accomplices.


I hate this, but we are looking at a bunch of people in government who are in fact criminals. They should face criminal prosecution and punishment. I omit reference to in that sequence to conviction, because they are committing their crimes in front of the world. On TV. They are guilty.


Goldberg is guilty of being sneaky. One time amnesty. What a bunch of crap. He did a better job of disguising what he is, but he is not a conservative, and shouldn't be here.


Amnesty
Amnesty? I'll tell you who needs amnesty - The border guards in jail for enforcing the law - Scooter Libby facing jail, for what, a bad memory? He needs amnesty. These are the people who need amnesty, not serial law-breaking illegal aliens. The whole problem is the fact that farmers and business owners want to get $10 an hour work done for $4 an hour without paying benefits or paperwork (the "social tab for these workers is paid by the taxpayer) and the weenies on the left want nannies, gardeners and waiters to kiss their a** and wait on them. That's all it's about. Liberals suck but so-called "conservatives" ain't far behind dealing with this problem. The first S.O.B. politician that complains about a terrorist sneaking across our border and killing Americans ought to be hanged as a traitor.

Goldy Shut Up
Jonah Goldberg is the sort of conservative that is very comfortable with modern American culture and the changes since the 1960s. That is why he is offended by those who believe in a historic American nation that was populated largely by white people from Europe and built largely by descendents of original Americans, most of whom came from Britain. The concept of demographic revolution is the primary reason to fight the elites on the issue of legalization of illegals and nothing else.

Immigration Equals Greatness
We are a great Nation because of our Immigrants. We cannot build a fence that is racist. I wonder how much greater we would be if we had not built the abortion fence and turned back 40 million wonderful Americans that would have been English speaking, easily assimilated, fellow Americans. Just musing.

Go balkanization!!
My ancestors came to this country from northern Europe in the late 1800s. I'm guessing that many of you Townhallers are also products of that HUGE wave of immigration.

If I recall my history, those immigrants had the same fear, anger, and venom spewed at them that you are spewing toward today's Hispanic immigrants.

The earlier wave of immigration led to the big-business politico-economic dominance that you worship. The world isn't going to end because of this wave of immigration, either.

Goodonpaper
Your argument doesn't match your screen name.

You evidently don't understand the difference between legal immigration and border jumping.

Phone at Romney campaign headquarters
Riiinnnggg.

Hello. Welcome to the Mitt Romney campaign headquarters. If you would like to speak to Romney, the seal-the-borders candidate, press 1 for English. If you would like to speak to Romney, the open-borders candidate, press 2 for Español. Otherwise, please hold for the next available flip-flopper.

SteveL, what is your point?
So, your ancestor was an illegal immigrant. Do you want a lollypop? Yes, if he never married you would not exist. Thanks for the biology lesson. Too bad your grandfather did not follow the rule of law and emigrated here as many others from communist lands.

You also state, "And I simply cannot accept the nativist and cultural arguments being tossed around. There is absolutely nothing wrong with Hispanic culture, or the Hispanic language; both are ancient, honorable parts of Western civilization."

What is the point, again, poindexter? There is nothing wrong with Hispanic culture. But do you notice how many REAL SPANISH, from Spain, are allowed to immigrate to the USA each year? I bet very few, because since the 1965 Immigration Reform Act, European immigrants have had it very hard trying to get in. You using the term nativist shows your ignorance of the issue, so you relegate your tirade to (a) using your illegally entered gramps as an example, and (b) telling us how wonderful Hispanic culture is. That is fine and dandy. I think Italian culture is better, but maybe I am prejudiced toward my ancestors who came here LEGALLY.

GoodonPaper, is Howard Zinn your hero?
You state, "If I recall my history, those immigrants had the same fear, anger, and venom spewed at them that you are spewing toward today's Hispanic immigrants."

That may be true...but no one called for their deportation, either, because guess what, zippy? They came here legally, and were citizens in a few years. We all know about the Know Nothings and anti Irish bigotry, but the Irish assimilated quickly because...guess what? They already knew English by large (very few spoke Gaelic exclusively). Like many Hispanics, many European Americans from places like Italy and Greece formed Benevolent Societies and ethnic societies, but they promoted "Americanization" and embracing American ideals and mores, while celebrating their ancestry. Can you say organizations like La Raza are on the same par? Now, I hated to hand you your head on this page, but I encourage you to stop reading crap by Howard Zinn and start reading unbiased American history.

Warrior, stop musing
It is obviously too dangerous on your cranial muscles.

"We are a great Nation because of our Immigrants."
Yes, legal immigrants...from the Mayflower to Ellis Island, that is true. Most Americans until recently came here legally. Also, from about 1930 to 1965 immigration actually decreased...did our country become less great because of that fact? Oh yeah, our nation was very prosperous during the post WWII years.

"We cannot build a fence that is racist."
Mexicans are not a race. They are a nationality, ergo, being anti illegal immigration cannot be racist in pure semantic terms. We cannot let one particular group overwhelm all the other ethnic groups in the USA. That will change our culture for the worst, as many of these illegals resist assimilation.

"I wonder how much greater we would be if we had not built the abortion fence and turned back 40 million wonderful Americans that would have been English speaking, easily assimilated, fellow Americans. Just musing."

Don't confuse or juxtapose the two issues. Abortion is a whole different animal. The problem is easily, many Americans are having fewer babies. That is economy driven and lifestyle driven. Maybe many Americans decided breeding like rabbits will drive them into the economic cesspool and make them possibly dependent on social services. Then, we have anchor babies...i.e., using birthing in order to come into this country "legally." Just disgusting.

Bill Murray
For the record, our ancestors didn't get kicked out of every decent country in the world, and we aren't scum. Most of our ancestors came here looking for freedom and opportunity, voluntarily. These were the best sorts of people, who didn't have good prospects under the status quo of other countries. And they were Christians. OK, slaves got a really bad deal, but their descendents are sure better off than their 3rd cousins back in the home countries. But what I object to is that people steeped in Latin American culture don't feel the same way about laws that we do. If you've lived there, you know that it's your connections that matter most, not the laws, and anyone can be bought. I'll bet most of these illegal immigrants do want to work hard and have a better life, but can they leave the corruption behind? (On the other hand, these were not the movers and fixers in their own countries.) What we need to do to keep our culture is to actually teach civics, self-reliance and patriotic history in the schools instead of environmentalism and socialism.

March for America Events June 14, 15, 16

March for America June 14, 15, 16 Washington D.C. and state capitols across the country. Be there or be without a country.

http://www.lframerica.com/march2.html

Sabotaging America

After many years of have been in America and experienced first hand how
“political correctness” indoctrination in schools, colleges and universities have paralyzed the common sense of average Americans, I concluded that our local and national officials are ashamed of being called Americans and defend American values.

The damage of this so called “liberals” ( loonies) have made to our culture is really critical: George Washington is not even mention let alone honored. The Constitution is interpreted under the lenses of socialism and communism. The bible is the forbidden book, but the Quran, Karl Marx, Mao Tse Tung, Fidel Castro the murderer Che Guevara and now the pineapple head Hugo Chavez are worshipped. The American flag is offensive to foreigners and legal and illegal immigrants. Speaking English to a non-Speaking immigrant is being “insensitive” and “intolerant.” All religions are the same: teach peace and tolerance, except Christianity. You can mention the word “god” but cannot even end your prayers in “ the name of Jesus.”

Slavery in America is inhuman but slavery in Muslim nations is part of their culture, therefore, it is OK. Latinos, like me, must be given priority in hiring before white men, because I am a “minority” (if my mom knew of this, she would tell me, “you are American, not a minority”), illegal aliens are not more illegal aliens, they are “undocumented.” “Minorities” are not supposed to vote Republican but Democrats.
Because I am Latino, Hillary Clinton and all the clowns of the Democrat Party love me (my wife is jealous now). Even George Bush and other Republicans with guilty complex say that illegal aliens are the best of best to do jobs that Americans do not want to do.

There is only a LITTLE problem: these illegal aliens hate America and love Cuba and Mexico. Wave Mexican flags, worshipped Che Guevara instead of honoring George Washington. Thank Hugo Chavez for calling Bush “Diablo.” They will never vote Republican. Not even care about learning English. If are in college, their goal is a degree in Chicano Studies. Want to take California back to Mexico (what exciting, another Tijuana!) and his motto is not “God Bless America,” but “Si Se puede. Aqui Estamos y aqui nos quedamos.”

BrianR
Where have you been other than working for a living. I urge you to thoroughly read the following link. Grey Ghost and several others have, and found much more than he might bargained for. See below.

Read it down inside the LINK. get down on it. you'll be glad you did. This is the real missing link, to pun a word.

Tasha Tchin writes: Wednesday, June, 06, 2007 3:33 PM
The "Base"???
The Republican "base" as defined by the Republican Party's president is composed of "the haves and the have-mores" -- the "elites" -- in Bush's own words. The Dems are no better. Both parties have a "plan" and they are running with it.

What is their "plan" for We the People, the owners of this Republic? Simple. Replace us uppity American citizens with pliant peons from south of the border. That way "our" politicians and Bush's "base" can live like corrupt Mexican politicians and like Mexico's elite oligarchs.

This "plan" is not a deep, dark secret. It has been outlined to us last year by a Mexican who spilled the beans, er, frijoles, in a Center for Immigration Studies backgrounder. You can read his observations here:

http://www.cis.org/articles/2006/back706.html

Then, get out the tar and feathers, the torches and pitch forks, the hammer and tongs and take those turncoats to task! If you were stupid enough to have made a contribution to the RNC in the last 12 months, call'em up and demand a refund! It is your right! You can reach the 'tards at:

1-202-863-8747

And, keep that phone line busy so Bush's "base" can't make any more donations to our Republic's demise!

GoodOnPaper writes:June, 06, 2007 5:57 P

Go balkanization!!
My ancestors came to this country from northern Europe in the late 1800s. I'm guessing that many of you Townhallers are also products of that HUGE wave of immigration.

If I recall my history, those immigrants had the same fear, anger, and venom spewed at them that you are spewing toward today's Hispanic immigrants.

The earlier wave of immigration led to the big-business politico-economic dominance that you worship. The world isn't going to end because of this wave of immigration, either.

DESKJOCKEY RESPONDS

I’m a product of that wave. Sadly it caused much harm and therefore we put a 45 year stranglehold on immigration to try and rectify it. My ancestors brought their desire for socialism. The steady stream of immigrants that don't share our values have changed the values of the nation.

Good article from an insider on that being the specific reason this is being done is in the post above by onceamarine gratis of Blogmeister.

Immigration's Bad Boys
The one group in this country that knows quite clearly the value of secure borders is the American Indian, regardless of his Indian Nation.

What would have happened if Columbus never returned? The Conquistadors and the explorers vanished?

The left has bastardized this discussion by changing the definition of terms that should be universally understood. As a famous philanderer once said, "It depends upon your definition of "is."
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