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Wednesday, April 11, 2007
Jonah Goldberg :: Townhall.com Columnist
Conservatives, don't ignore McCain
by Jonah Goldberg
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In 1960 Barry Goldwater, the patron saint of modern conservatism, gave some famous advice to conservative Republicans who were angry with their shabby treatment at the hands of the Nixonites. Get over it, Goldwater told them.

"Let's grow up, conservatives," Goldwater proclaimed. The embryonic conservative insurgency within the GOP couldn't let hard feelings get in the way of the hard work that needed to be done, AUH20 counseled.

Today's conservatives might be well-advised to take similar advice with regard to the successor to Goldwater's seat, Arizona Sen. John McCain.

In the eyes of his conservative detractors - among whom I've long counted myself - McCain has a maddening habit of proving his political independence by winning accolades from the New York Times editorial board. On campaign finance reform, global warming, opposition to tax cuts and other issues, the "maverick" has too often racked up points by scoring against his own team. Sometimes he stands to the right of the GOP, sometimes to the left, but always he seems to relish breaking ranks for its own sake.

It's an annoying habit, but conservatives should consider their other options. For example, by any measure, Rudy Giuliani is the more liberal candidate - indeed, the most liberal serious candidate Republicans have fielded in decades. But because Giuliani made the right enemies - chief among them those vexatious New York Times editors - conservatives respect him, even though they disagree with him on almost everything. Meanwhile, they give the cold shoulder to McCain, who agrees with them on most of the important things.

For instance, McCain's been a consistent pro-lifer (which distinguishes him from pretty much everyone else in the race so far). Until recently, Giuliani argued passionately for partial-birth abortion as a constitutional right. McCain has voted to confirm every conservative Supreme Court nominee, including Robert Bork. He voted "guilty" in Bill Clinton's impeachment trial. He campaigned for George W. Bush in 2000 and 2004, even after a bitter defeat at Bush's hands. Giuliani says he was ideologically simpatico with Clinton, and he endorsed Democrat Mario Cuomo for governor of New York.

My point isn't merely to make invidious comparisons between McCain and Giuliani (heck, to liberals they're not invidious at all). I'm actually a fan of Giuliani, and I think the GOP and the country could do worse in a president and Republican standard-bearer. But the double standard on the right seems more than a little self-indulgent.

Giuliani's chief selling point seems to be that he'll have "what it takes" to be tough in the war on terror. That may well be the case. But Giuliani's foreign policy experience is, at best, limited. Meanwhile, McCain's experience is deeper than the rest of the field's combined. There's no evidence that Giuliani is more of a hawk than McCain, who has spent the last four years arguing that Bush needs to be more aggressive in Iraq and who argued for a troop "surge" years before anyone used the word.

After 9/11, Giuliani earned his reputation for showing his sensitive side. After 9/11, McCain said to our enemies, "May God have mercy on you, because we won't." How can conservatives argue that Giuliani is The One because he's willing to be a tough SOB on the war on terror, while deriding McCain because he's been such an effective SOB to a president and party who, McCain believes, haven't been tough enough?

In response, McCain has decided to slap conservatives out of their haze. In what his campaign is billing as major speeches, the first on Wednesday at the Virginia Military Institute, McCain plans to make his candidacy a referendum on victory in Iraq. It is a truly bold and courageous gambit. At a time when the polls advise running away from the war, McCain will embrace it.

By positioning himself to the hawkish right of the Bush administration, McCain might be able to make the election a referendum on the future of Iraq, rather than a referendum on the last four years. As a war hero with two sons in the military, McCain can argue with obvious moral authority that while we may have blundered our way into Iraq, it would be an even greater blunder to get out before winning.

There are many reasons to have reservations about McCain: his love of regulation, his animosity toward free-marketers or simply his age and temper. But conservatives who claim that the war trumps everything but won't even consider pulling the lever for McCain have some growing up to do.

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About The Author
Jonah Goldberg is editor-at-large of National Review Online.
 
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Jonah:
I didn't even read the article. I stopped at the title. Don't tell me to consider McCain. As a former Arizonan that left the ballot blank in 2004, I think he would make a lousy president.

He's no conservative. He's an open border, wishy washy media lapdog and he's secretly anti 2nd ammendment. Well, maybe not TOO secretly.

No way, no how. Take your spin elsewhere, neocon waterboy.


Dave, you're absolutely right
Goldberg: "I'm actually a fan of Giuliani, and I think the..."

Forget it! Right there you lost all credibility, Goldberg.

RINO Rudy? The Bald Hillary?

RINO Rudy: Pro-abortion, pro-gun control, pro-amnesty, pro-abortion (taxpayer funded at that), etc., etc., etc.

I mean, what's the difference between him and Hillary, huh?

And don't you apologists launch into your tired WOT cliche rant. This country will never be defeated by a bunch of Islamic fanatics, but it sure as he11 can be destroyed from within. They can't destroy us, but we can absolutely destroy ourselves.

Thanks to people like RINO Rudy.

Franklin: Those who would sacrifice liberty for safety shall enjoy neither liberty nor safety.

RINO Rudy's another Big Government liberal, running in the wrong party. And McCrazy's no better. He doesn't want to be President; he wants to be Emperor. The guy's a megalomaniacal lunatic.

No way, Jose (how fitting).

BTW, in case you need it, McCrazy's CV:
Keating scandal

Gang of 14

McCain-Feingold (anti-1st amendment)

McCain-Kennedy (pro-amnesty)

McCain-Lieberman (anti-gun)

He has his name on a lot of BAAAAD bills.


Goldberg, there's no double standard.
I don't want to see either one as president.

McCain, NOT
McCain is a tired old man who has stabbed his own party in the back too many times to garner a whole lot of support. If not, he would be way ahead in the polls right now.
As far as his stance on Iraq. it is #1 the only issue he has been right on, and #2 no different from any of the other GOP candidates
I just don't believe that he deserves to be Pres and he is the one candidate out of the lot that I could never vote for.
It wouldn't surprise me if, when he doesn't win the primary, he jumps out as an independent and screws the republicans again

This article
endorsing McCain is lame. Mr. Goldberg we expect better of you.

The term I saw was:
McRomliani.

JimmyC
Rudi McRomney

Actually,

Jonah, the best thing we can do is ignore him, then maybe he'll go away?

Why do Conservative pundits keep
shoveling this $***?

We don't want McDemocrat

We want a REAL CONSERVATIVE.

(By the way, Jimmy, nice word "McRomliani!")

More to it than positions
McCain's liberal positions on a wide range of issues make it an absolute impossibility for McCain to win the GOP nomination for President.

But the problem with McCain goes a lot deeper than just his positions.

McCain is a megalomaniac and a panderer. There's something that's just not right about the guy. He was a bona fide hero, once upon a time, but that was more than thirty years ago. Duke Cunningham was a genuine hero back then, too, and look how far he fell.

A President has to be a leader. More to the point, our next one needs to be more of a leader than George W. Bush (fair-to-middling--some good ideas, poor execution and poor communication). Giuliani, however flawed his personal life may be, shows every sign of being a strong and skilled leader. This is why, even though their positions are often very close, I'd vote for Rudy but would never, ever pull the lever for McCain.

McCain may have had leadership ability once upon a time, but he doesn't have it any more. He's become a guy who's constantly sticking his finger in the air to see which way the wind is blowing.

It used to be just the mainstream news media trying to stuff this quasi-liberal Captain Queeg down our throats. Now we have supposedly conservative columnists doing the same thing?

Maybe the person we should be ignoring is Jonah Goldberg.

Jonah, Jonah, Jonah,
He is a politician, when a politician adopts goals and a voting record that is against what conservatives stand for in a politician WHY IN THE 4 CORNERS OF H*LL should we support said politician. No, you and the rest of the pundits need to get over it. And BTW, we don't like Rudy either.

Mr. Goldberg
We're not ignoring Gone Insane; we're destroying him.

If there are no other options, we'll vote third party like we did the last time they gave us the ridiculous choice of Proven Republican Liberal v. Proven Democrat Liberal. If it takes eight years of Heil-ary Clinton to teach this country and party a lesson, then so be it. Eventually, they will both give up the "think left" strategy when enough suicide bombers explode in shopping malls.

Giuliani the poster boy for conservatism
Okay, so a good arguement can be made that McCain is more conservative than Giuliani... of course my dog is more conservative than Giuliani, but the last I heard he is not among the leaders for the GOP presidential nomination. If Giuliani is going to be used as the benchmark for conservatism then pretty much anybody can be called a conservative.

Why no mention of McCain's support and leadership for amnesty Mr. Goldberg. This issue probably turns off conservatives more than any other and I can't find one mention of McCain's embrace of illegals anywhere in your article.


Not exactly...
Goldberg says: "McCain's been a consistent pro-lifer". Really? Do you call starting the "gang of 14" and sandbagging the nomination of 7 genuine prolife conservative nominees to the Court of Appeals (with only 3 ultimately being confirmed) being prolife? (Not to mention that that action on McCain's part has now enshrined as Senate tradition the theretofore unprecedented use of the filibuster to block Judicial nominees.) And as for voting for all of Pres. Bush Supreme Court nominees, being to the right of Linc Chafee ain't sain' much!

No trust, no vote!
I don't trust John McCain, and I won't vote for him.

Jerubaal
The position you take is both foolish and childless!

Why would any thinking person want to 'bite off their nose to spite their face'?

And to read that you are willing to see Hillary get two terms and see "suicide bombers explode in shopping malls" TO TEACH THIS COUNTRY AND PARTY A LESSON is outrageous.

Even though I am a retired member of the USN and a combat veteran, I still can't find any reason to vote for Sen. McCain, and have always thought his political positions to be quite strange.

But I am still mature and emotionally stable enough to realize that I will never find a candidate that will agree with 100% of the time.

Jerubaal - you have a serious problem!

Not ignored, prosecuted.
Jonah is right about one thing: McCain should not be ignored. He should be impeached, prosecuted and convicted for violating his oath to uphold the U.S. Constitution. McCain-Feingold was an attack on our 1st amendment rights. He is a traitor to his country and the ideals that made America the greatest nation to ever exist.

WSJ Editorial: "McCain's Finest Hour"
I think the anti-John McCain comments poster here are not well considered. It is not just Jonah Goldberg who is talking some sense. I would ask that people please read today's editorial in the Wall Street Journal "McCain's Finest Hour." I have not agreed with some positions that John McCain has argued for in recent years, just as the Editors of the Wall Street Journal have not. But in more recent days, John McCain has shown a steadfastness concerning the military and the war in Iraq that commands respect. I care particularly because my older son is a U.S. Army First Lieutenant (with Ranger tab) serving in Iraq. I have found myself angered greatly, and that is putting it mildly, by the defeatist, feckless and at times near treasonous behavior of the Democrats and some so-called Republicans. In contrast, John McCain has been an adult showing leadership on the subject.

The fact is that John McCain, a Navy combat pilot and the son and grandson of U.S. Admirals, does know military and national security matters better than anyone else on the national scene; his criticisms of the management of the Iraq war in prior years turned out to be well founded; and he understands that we now have the right general and the right strategy in place in Iraq. John McCain has also been consistently pro-life and a fiscal conservative, his books on courage and character are gems, and he pledged earlier in the year at a Federalist Society dinner that he would nominate judges like John Roberts and Sam Alito to the federal bench. For the issues ahead facing the nation, I think everyone needs to think about what is important.

McCain?
Please stop promoting this political hack and take a really good look at Sen. Sam Brownback of Kansas. Then do an article on what you find there! Thanks for listening?

Jim Blair, Chanute, KS

Growing Up
Coming from a fellow who has analyzed The Simpsons cartoon for National Review and can't even get his wife to take his surname, the idea of Jonah Goldberg condemning conservatives for not growing up is a bit amusing. As it is, that Goldberg seems to support the very liberal Rudy Guiliani shows how liberal he himself is. How can any conservative view Jonah Goldberg as credible on conservatism? They can't.

Lots of Growing Up to Do

"There are many reasons to have reservations about McCain: his love of regulation, his animosity toward free-marketers or simply his age and temper. But conservatives who claim that the war trumps everything but won't even consider pulling the lever for McCain have some growing up to do."

I don't care if the Republican nominee is McCain, Guiliani, Fred Thompson, Mitt Romney or any of the multiple unlikelies so often touted on this site. If the candidate is willing and able to stand up to the anti-war media, and be resolute in the interests of this country, I will support him or her. McCain qualifies on that standard.

Your uncompromised conservative priniciples are all very admirable. But unless you are able to attract and retain the votes of shallow, less-principled citizens such as me, it will be President Obama and Vice President Edwards leading our foreign policy. Can't lose this war against Islamist fanatics, BrianR? I suspect that the Democratic Party, backed by its media handlers, is more than capable of losing this and any other war.

The kindergarten bell is ringing, my conservative friends. Time to leave the playground and come in for school.



jim blair
I don't know much about Brownback. I read somewhere that he defined himself as a social conservative. Do you know if that is true?

To September12Republican
I notice that the main title in your name is REPUBLICAN. Well, our main point is CONSERVATIVE. When the two are the same thing we will believe you. We left the playground long ago and will no longer vote for an (R) just because it has an (R).

Oops -- Brownback
He co-sponsored S.2611 along with Teddy Kennedy and John McCain.

S.2611
Title: A bill to provide for comprehensive immigration reform and for other purposes.
Sponsor: Sen Specter, Arlen [PA] (introduced 4/7/2006) Cosponsors (6)
Related Bills: H.R.4437, S.2454, S.2612
Latest Major Action: 5/25/2006 Passed/agreed to in Senate. Status: Passed Senate with amendments by Yea-Nay Vote. 62 - 36. Record Vote Number: 157. COSPONSORS(6), ALPHABETICAL [followed by Cosponsors withdrawn]: (Sort: by date)


Sen Brownback, Sam [KS] - 4/7/2006
Sen Graham, Lindsey [SC] - 4/7/2006
Sen Hagel, Chuck [NE] - 4/7/2006
Sen Kennedy, Edward M. [MA] - 4/7/2006
Sen Martinez, Mel [FL] - 4/7/2006
Sen McCain, John [AZ] - 4/7/2006

To ALL of you hardline Republicans
I want you to read the "about us" statement for this website.

http://www.townhall.com/AboutUs.aspx

Townhall is devoted to CONSERVATIVES. Nowhere in the description does it mention the Republican Party.


Objectively speaking...
So VIC, are you saying you'd vote for the demoncrat if McCain were the republican nominee? Come on.

I think Mr. Goldberg is correct: don't count McCain out. I don't agree with alot of things he's done in legislation, but he is the most electable candidate in the current field. You can waste your breath talking about Guiliani or Gingrich, but neither is electable. I prefer McCain over Romney. Most importantly, I believe McCain can carry the independent vote (which is what will win the election).
Growing up is about looking at the thing objectively, not filtered through your emotions. Most of the vociferous anti-McCain posts here are very emotional. What can the president do? He can prosecute the war, he can appoint judges. McCain would do an admirable job of both in my opinion. Those are the critical issues you should be looking at--along with who can actually get elected---not finding your favorite personality.

To SunThe1
I will vote for a libertarian before I vote for McShame.

Vic

Thanks for the reminder. I'll try to keep my politically impure thoughts to a minimum.

Why not McCain?
Although nominally a conservative, McCain is wrong on too many vital issues. He is wrong on the most important issue of our day- immigration. As it is, he is at the side of Ted Kennedy and George W. Bush in their efforts to radically alter the nation's demographics with massive immigration from the Third World. Long after Iraq is an afterthought and footnote, Third World immigration will forever alter our nation for the worse. On abortion, although he is nominally pro-life, only a fool would think he cares one wink about the tragedy of abortion. On America's moral decline, McCain is out to sea. In fact, his private life has proven that he is very much at home with modern American morality. Regarding taxes, McCain is very much in the Dole-Eisenhower camp of indifference to high taxes. Perhaps being on the public trough so long creates conservatives of the McCain-Eisenhower-Dole stripe. Lastly, he supports Bush's foolish war in Iraq which has killed 3000 American soldiers, cost near $ 400 billion and politically damaged the Republican Party and the conservative movement. McCain does not deserve conservative support.

Not Happening - Fed Up
There is absolutely no chance of me voting or supporting any the "first tier" Republican candidates, especially McCain. If we're going to have a liberal in the white house I would rather it be from the other party - at least there is a chance congressional conservatives would oppose the liberal initiatives coming from the white house if the White House was Democrat.

I am waiting for a Conservative to enter the fray so I could have someone to vote for.

I have worked over 20 years getting "Republicans" elected...campaign footsoldier, county party leadership including party finance chair...thousands of donated hours...NO MORE!

I will not flee the Republican party, it still remains a conservatives best chance (3rd parties are a TOTAL waste in our system), but I will oppose a liberal Republican every way I can which includes voting for the opponent. Better a devil I know than a weakling appeasor.

I would love to see Newt run...like to know more about Thompson...Brownback and Hunter will benefit from the campaign to gain name recognition for the future but won't come close to getting to the top tier this cycle financially.

OK - ready for all the party loyalists to attack me now...take your best shot.

Vic
I had never read "about" on this site. Amazing. I wonder what happened, because it seems to have strayed quite aways from conservative and gone more to Republican.

Vic
You got it just right! Jonah, McCain is supported by the MSM, that is enough reason to throw the bum off the train. Guiliani has just sunk himself with his abortion stance, so we are rid of 2 of the "front runners". I think we all agree that Mitt is unelectably dull and has flip flopped so many times that I think he is a fish on a dock. Think John Kerry with an R after his name.

All I know about Sen. Brownback is that he is formally in the race and he is a Senator. That tag usually disqualifies anyone anymore as a Senator has to make too many compromised deals with the devil to get any legislation passed (unless, of course, they were feckless and got nothing passed at all, see Obama). Now, Fred Thompson was a Senator, but his saving grace is that he obviously did not make deals and left the Senate disgusted with the idea of compromising principle for political expediency.

To All
Fred Thompson just anounced that he had Lymphoma which is a type of cancer. That will probably remove him from running and elliminate a potential conservative.

http://www.lymphoma.com/

I guess we just can not get a break here.

I don't remember the last time
that I was dissapointed in a JG column. But this time I really was. I was skeptical of RG. But after hearing in on Hannity's show, I'm now convinced that he's close to being RR conservative. Unless Mark Sanford gets into the race, I'm voting Rudy.

McCain sold his soul
to the Bush devil and is politically 'dead'.

If Zell Miller ran as a Democrat
I'd support him over any Republican who is currently in the race.

I guess I got to be contrarian
As one who vociferously condemns the Bush policy on Iraq, even if I(like most others)originally believed the hype and faulty intel that justified the invasion, allow me to say that Goldberg makes a compelling argument.

Simply walking away from Iraq would turn a blunder(the invasion)into a historic catastrophe of epic proportions.

We must salvage what we can from Bush's mistake. Even if Iraq is salvagable, the Bush administration's legacy will be permanently and indelibly stained for all time. No one envisions a democracy, with pluralism, and tolerance of disparate groups, for Iraq.

But it is no longer about Bush. It is about the U.S., and how the muslim world regards us.

McCain may well be correct on Iraq, as much as it pains me to say it...for I despise the Bush democracy crusade in the mideast. Stability, not democracy, should be our goal for the region.

We all enjoy driving our gas guzzling 4X4 pickups and high performance vehicles. The American dream was all about open roads, endless highways.

Our economy, our stockmarket, our way of life, our standard of living, is dependent and predicated upon a dependable source of fossil fuel. In time, we can alter that.

But it will take decades.

Until then, we can't just wash our hands of the mideast.

To the Republican apologists
You guys keep Chicken Littling about "President Hillary", not having learned that the hysteria last year about "Speaker Pelosi" didn't get you anywhere.

As Einstein noted, insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

Conservatives ain't buying the swampland anymore.

And we're not leaving the Repub party; the party left us.

So stop with the "won't agree with you 100%" nonsense. Nobody's looking for 100%, so that's a very lame straw man. But this conservative's not willing to settle for 20%, even if YOU are.

I'd rather sit out the election; and I will.

If we're going to have a gun-grabbing, amnesty supporting, pro-abortion, liberal big-government type in the White House, I'd rather it be a Dem.

At least they're honest about it.

A Red Herring
Iraq is a red herring and if that is the only reason to support McCain then he is in real trouble.

Consider:
The election is a year and 1/2 away - the winner won't take office for almost 2 years. Assuming the winner actually would totally ignore the wishes of allies and concerned nations in the region for us not to unilaterally withdraw immediately (i.e. drop our rifles and gear where it lays and climb onto the nearest aircraft out)we COULD not get out within the next two years and probably closer to 3 unless Bush starts it moving during his term.

Iraqi brigades are coming on line monthly. It is probable that much smaller numbers of troops will be needed there within 3 years regardless (material and manpwer issues in the military will require a drawdown by then anyway) or the whole thing will be overtaken by events - as in a widening conflict - during the remainder of the Bush presidency - which would change the campaign picture anyway.

The point is...this far out from the election current events/military events being a sole issue to vote for someone is pointless. The picture will be radically different - for better or worse - come November 2008.

I have not heard a single reason to vote for any of the 3 current top tier republicans if you set the Iraq war aside.

BrianR
You are absolutely right but please don't sit out the election. At least consider the Libertarians. I know they are a little kooky, what with their baffling support of the Constitution, but they mean well.

Devilspaintbrush: Actually, you're right
When Dan Lundgren -- another RINO -- ran for Guv out here in California, I did vote Libertarian. I do have a problem with their foreign policy position, though, I must say. But it could certainly say something with the numbers.

However, I did sit it out for Ah-nuld's re-election run.



Conservatives Don't ignore McCain
Sorry Jonah, that ship has sailed!

John McCain's support for open borders has rendered anything else he has said or done meaningless, and his campaign impotent. That you seem starry eyed in your continued advocacy of Mr. McCain gives me pause to question your conservative credentials. Simply supporting the Chamber of Commerce and American Business interests, to the exclusion of the will of the people, doesn't necessarily make you a conservative, indeed; quite the contrary! John saw this train wreck coming last year, and just like our President, felt that pandering to mass immigration lobbyists and cheap labor interests was the "fast track" to the White House. The fact that this is the same "fast track" being pursued by Democrats should be a clue that conservatism isn't John McCain's long suit!

A Two Party System
Reality Check Time:

We have a two party system. If conservatives want a voice they must dominate or at least be indispenable to and have a solid voice in one of the two parties. A third party vote neither elects a conservative nor influences the inner workings of a party to advance conservatives.

Conservatives need to wake up to the FACT that to be effective they need to work IN the party, donate to champions IN the party (the RSC is a good core group to start with) and if need be vote AGAINST the party nominee if ignored (not just - not vote or go 3rd party - that's lame and ineffectual). Have the courage to back up your convictions. Fight for them. Get involved in the party most likely to work for your convictions then HOLD that party responsible.

A "protest" vote for a 3rd party is a demostration of impotence. It is meaningless to the change the liberal party and does nothing to advance the influence of conservatives in the other party.

Votes are important but to change things you have to get involved and write checks.

Reality sucks but there it is.

Libertarians?
Funny thought, consider the Libertarians. You were joking weren't you? With Libertarians supporting open borders even more than W and M, and given that the overwhelming majority of American's from all political affiliations opposed to amnesty and guest worker programs, suggesting that any true Conservative or Independent would find enough in common to vote Libertarian, is hilarious. Government has its place, big Government, not so much. Libertarian Government at the national level would be so "hands off" as to result in the sundry states becoming "fiefdom's". Interpretting the Constitution can go both ways you know, and neither remotely representing the original intent of the founders. Libertarians seem to view our borders as simply a line of demarcation for purposes of defining who owns what, and damn little else.

McCain = NEVER
McCain is a SORRY EXCUSE FOR A CONSERVATIVE!

Mac: Two-party system? Really?
I know about the Republocrats.

What's the other party?

edweirdness
I appreciate your concern but I believe you have been misled about the Libertarians and especially about their position on the borders. Both parties know the majority of Americans are Libertarian at heart so they engage in a smear campaign against them. That schmuck Medved is a perfect example.

Keep an open mind and do some research on your own. What you discover might surprise you.

Devilspaintbrush: Medved?
Don't you mean Deadhead?

edweirdness
I'm not a libertarian, but from what I've read, there is a huge chasm in their beliefs with regard to open borders. In other words, some agree with it; some don't. If you look at their other stances, they are very close indeed to Constitutional principles. Much more close than the current makeup of the Republicrat Party, that's for sure.

I've been looking at the Constitution Party some for the last couple of days. Their platform is interesting and may be something that conservatives would support, since it is, of course, constitutional in nature.

BrianR: Nice quip but does nothing
If you don't like "Republocrats" get busy and do something about it.

I repeat...a vote or work for a 3rd party does not advance a conservative agenda anywhere - it may "feel good" but there's already a "feel good" party called the democrats.

If a conservative has the courage of their convictions then advance the conservative cause and influence in whichever of the two parties they believe they can be effective in. If a "Republocrat" becomes the nominee of that party then cast a full vote against that person - don't half-step it with no vote or a 1/2 vote to a 3rd party.

Act with conviction and step up to back those convictions.

BrianR

I used to feel the same way about the Libertarian's position on foreign policy. However, our history is rife with examples of bad foreign policy resulting in disasterous results. For example, Ho Chi Mihn was initially a supporter of the U.S. till we betrayed him to the French. Saddam was supported by the U.S. and look how that worked out. China would be a democracy today were it not for our bad foreign policy. These are all historical facts and I encourage anyone to check them.

The Libertarians believe as our Founding Fathers did. We have no business messing in the affairs of other nations. Bush proved this to be correct as did Wilson, Johnson, Truman, Bush 41 and others. Just about all our current problems can be traced back to our meddling in the affairs of others. Ron Paul knew this to be true and voted against Bushies war of revenge. He was right to do so.

Mac: Sorry, bud
It was, indeed, a quip, and unfortunately reflects reality.

If the Rep party thinks they are EVER going to regain majority status by turning into Dem-Lite, a party of pandering opportunists who will desert any and all principles and values just to get votes, they are in for a shocking awakening.

Rudy McRomney? Are you kidding me? Talk about a snooze-fest.

As I've written elsewhere and often, I'm a conservative first, and a Republican a distant second. If the Rep party wants to leave me -- as it seems is the case -- I will certainly return the favor. Without blinking an eye.


mac

I could not disagree more. I've voted republican all my life because I thought they cared about the Constitution. I was wrong. They betrayed all of us and do not deserve our support. If I could I'd grab every one of them by the scruff of their necks and push their face in the Constitution. "Don't do that again", I'd yell.

The way I see it a vote for the republicans is a wasted vote. If that results in the dems winning the presidency then so be it. I will not compromise my principles again by voting for a party that kraps on the Constitution.

Perfect: Enemy of Good
We conservatives are a picky bunch. We love Ron Paul, although we realize he would lose 50 states -- and not even come close in one of them. Ron is known as "Congressman No," a reflection of his vote on most spending matters.

We don't like McCain (see previous commenters). We don't like Rudy (too liberal on social issues. We don't like Romney (too Mormon). We do like Fred Thompson (for reasons that are not entirely clear -- and then of course there's that cancer thing). George Will likes William Howard Taft. Tommy Thompson is strongly supported by his family and several close friends.

There is an old saying: "The perfect (candidate) is the enemy of the good." What it means is that in searching for the "perfect" candidate (i.e., one who agrees with us of course) we end up being like Diogenes searching for an honest man. In other words, it will be a long, long search.

Are you willing to settle on Inauguration Day, 2009, for Hillary Clinton, or Barack Obama, or John Edwards? If you are, then keep up that quest to find the ideal candidate, the endless endeavor to find another Reagan.

Jonah Goldberg is right in telling us something we don't want to hear: to "grow up." A child knows exactly what he wants -- "gimme, gimme!" The probably with a child -- one he eventually gets over -- is that he's childish in his demands. "When I was a child, I thought as a child . . ." The good news is that I didn't stay a child forever.

The McCain Problem: it really isn't McCain-Feingold, which doesn't mean the End of the Republic. The problem, as one Republican national committeeman put it is that "McCain is too old -- and too tired."

Let me return to being me: McCain is six years younger than I am, but he looks and acts six years older. He looks like a man who could benefit from spending a lifetime on a Hawaiian beach. Sometimes when he speaks, it looks as if every word might be his last.

Of course, I'm the guy who said the Buffalo Bills were right to hire Marv Levy (age 80) as their General Manager. John McCain has given great service, heroic service, to his country. He has earned the rest he so clearly needs.

Last week in my blog I endorsed Rudy Giuliani for President. I cited significant poll data that SUGGESTED he could a significant leverage point in electing conservative candidates. I focused on Pennsylvania, where there will be as many as five close congressional races next time, all of them winnable by Republicans.

That endorsement of a good man -- maybe the best Mayor any big city ever had -- was my moment of entering political maturity. He's not perfect by any means, but he is as good as we're going to get in 2008.

(If you want to read what I wrote about Rudy -- and what I'll be writing today about Romney, go to http://camp2008victory.townhall.com)

Stephen R. Maloney
Political Activist and Advisor

Well, Steve:
You're part of the problem, not the solution.

Simply another apologist for the Rep party's desertion of values and principles, not to mention that dusty old parchment known as the Constitution of the United States.

You want to be another brainless drone being led by the nose, have at it.

And to quote my own earlier post: Nobody's looking for 100%, so that's a very lame straw man. But this conservative's not willing to settle for 20%, even if YOU are.

Get it?



Of Note:
We Republicans are now out of power in the Senate and the House due to one thing.

McCain/Kennedy Amnesty bills.

Now that the unspeakable is the Speaker of the House, McCain and Pres. Bush just got their hands (the hands with no aces) called.

Dear Pres. Bush,
If you can send me in writing 70 names of Republicans who will vote for your wage slaves and the amnesty you and McCain lust for, I will bring it to the floor of the House, other wise I'm off the cut a back door deal with the mad men in Iran.

Nancy.

Now tell me we should get a tinkers dime for McCain.

fool

You are the party
Here's how it works folks (in one example state - similiar in others)...the county chairperson and executive committee is ELECTED by the party members, the district chairman and executive committee is ELECTED by the county party delegates (delegates appointed by the County chairman) to district, the state chairman & executive committee is ELECTED by the district delegates (delegates appointed by the District Chairman).

I have sat in on elections where less than 2 dozen people bothered to attend and cast votes. I have seen district elections where the counties could only send a portion of their alloted delegates due to lack of interest.

The party cannot leave you - you can let an EXTREMELY small number of people to move the party where you don't want to go ONLY through apathy. That is YOUR choice.

The county/district/state apparatus plays a massive role in finding promoting and electing candidates.

Withholding a county/district/state endorsement of a candidate is a big deal.

Reality is there is no Libertarian coalition in congress working to implement its agenda.

There is no Constitution party coalition in congress working to implement its agenda.

THERE IS NO 3RD PARTY COALITION IN CONGRESS WORKING TO IMPLEMENT ANY AGENDA.

If conservatives are to advance their agenda and strengthen their voice they will have to do it by PARTICIPATING in Republican party activities throughout the country. A small number of people willing to roll up their sleeves can accomplish incredible things.

You want to scare the hell out of a RINO....let him read my posts here today - it's his worst nightmare.

This I know of which I speak.

Have a nice day.

Mr. Maloney
Your post was well argued and I enjoyed reading it. However, John McCain and Rudy Guiliani are wrong on so many vital issues that I can not support either. Rather than support either candidate, I would prefer defeat and the inevitable Democratic meltdown in 2009-2010. The 1994 mid-term elections proved to be gold for the Republican Party.

As for your claim that Guiliani is a "good man", I can not agree. Any man who believes ripping apart an unborn baby is oki-dokie has more in common with "Dr." Joseph Mengele than he does with an honorable, Christian man. Rudy Guiliani, Barry Goldwater and, by admission years ago, Jonah Goldberg all are part of the same cabal of evil that Hillary and Bill Clinton subscribe.

Mac: You STILL don't get it
Thank you for the Civics 101 lesson.

Irrelevant to the conversation at hand, but I'm sure it made you feel good.

HERE'S reality, bud.

Bush won two elections by squeakers, and in the ensuing six years has managed to pi$$ of just about everybody under the sun, ESPECIALLY conservatives with his entitlement programs, signing of McCain-Feingold, and his absurd Amnesty program.

People, especially conservatives, have had it to the gills.

You think any conservative wants to go through all that again with yet ANOTHER Republican not committed to values and principals. Think RINO Rudy or McCain can get those "squeaker" victories without us?

Think again.

And don't forget what Clinton said, a man with a he11uva lot more political smarts than RINO Rudy or McCrazy, about gun owners costing Gore the election.

THAT'S your political reality.

And I don't know a gun owner anywhere who'll vote for gun grabbers McCrazy and RINO Rudy.

BrianR
You still don't get it - you can post little snippetts and take your ball and go home when election time comes around or you can actually...{shudder}...DO SOMETHING.

My original post here today makes it clear I find NO ONE currently in the race on the republican side acceptable and as I said I would rather see a democrat win than a liberal republican.

Now, posters can whine and cry and sit out and dream of an alternative universe where they get all they want without effort by merely typing a few lines on a keyboard and showing up to vote every few years.....or....they can actually do something.

Make a choice and live with it.

Mac, dude, clean out your ears
I AM doing something, as are conservatives everywhere.

We are TELLING the Rep party that if you put up RINO candidates YOU WILL LOSE!

Better listen up.

Or YOU can live with the results.

I don't give one hoot in he11 whether the gun-grabber in the White House is a Clinton or a Giuliani.

Pass the word on to the political hacks in the party heirarchy.




To Mac
Where in the Constitution does it say we have a two-party system?

if you want conservatives to vote Republican then you better do everything you can do to field a conservative candidate...and that is not Rudi-McShame.

Settle down Beavis (Vic, Brian...)
While this IS a good time to be looking for the ideal candidate (pre-primaries), once the nominations are made, things change. At that point, you'll either have to vote for the better of the two major parties as you see it, throw down a protest vote, or stay home and whine. Conservatives who do the latter will elect a democrat. That's pretty much how we got our current congress.

Leave the hothead stuff to the liberals, why doncha?

MAC: you DO get it.

VIC: don't be so quick to write off your man Thompson. His kind of cancer is not even likely to shorten his normal life expectancy. He's just getting it out in the public domain now so it's a non-issue later.

mac

I'd love to donate time to the republican cause but my wife and I owe so much in taxes we spend all our time trying to make ends meet.

Do you follow?

SunThe1: Really?
"once the nominations are made, things change"

Really? Like what? Throwing your principles out the door?

Maybe you do; I don't.

As I wrote before, if there's a gun-grabber in the White House, I couldn't care less whether the name is Clinton or Giuliani.

The Rep party better wake up, or they are DOOMED.

I'll reiterate
When Dan Lundgren ran for Gov here in California against Davis. I sat it out. Davis won. I could not discern where there was any noticeable difference between how either would have governed.

I'm still glad I did.

If both parties are so eager to drive the bus of America over the cliff, let's just elect Clinton and get it over with.


To SunThe1
I will consider Romney if he gets the nod. Not so Rudi or McShame. I do not consider a 3rd party vote a waste. If nothing else, it send a message to the Repubs that there was a vote they could have had if they had kept to their principles.

Anyway, I got to go, will be back later tonight.

SunThe1 & Mac

The children have spoken: they ain't growing up.

Sep12: LOL
I'm cut to the quick, I'm sure.


BTW, THAT won't get my vote, either.


september12republican
If you kick a dog enough it won't come no matter how many times you call it.

That's how we feel. Does that make us children? What does it say about you that you keep coming back for another kick.

Gang of 14
'Nuff said.

McCain is always in search of some chimera of "good government" that everyone else -- mainly conservatives, apparently -- is preventing him from reaching. He doesn't triangulate; that's kid stuff. He octagulates. He dodecagulates. No matter what it is, he's either agin' it, or someone else is "doing it wrong."

To be an effective executive, you've got to have a vision of your own, and not worry the process to death. Not McCain's strong suit, and never has been. He's the "...and ANOTHER thing I don't like" guy.

McCain? No way. This is a basic truth: You can't make government good, period. You can only keep it small, and regularly set the dogs on it.

$.02
No way will this conservative vote for Rudy, McWacko or Brownback. I will only vote for a true conservative of the Goldwater standard. If none appears I will write vote for myself as a write-in candiate. As long as Conservatives continue to give way to Liberals and Moderates, the conservative message will never see the light of day.
I suggest the following for Conservatives in the Republican Party:
1. Defeat all Rhinos in the primaries with true conservatives.
2. Elect conservatives who understand that survival in Washington does not include being liked by the Washington Post or New York Times. Understand that they are there to vote for conservative values and that wasting time seeking the approval of the MSM is counterproductive. Stay off of the left wing news programs.
Adopt a new contract with America that would include:
A. Eliminating the departments of Education and Energy.
B. Reduce all government agencies by 20% except the military.
C. Overhaul the tax code and eliminate the IRS.
D. Overhaul our trade policies. Pull out of NAFTA and other one-sided trade agreements. Fair trade should be our policy.
E. Install a Realistic immigration policy that would include:
1. Prison time for CEO’s of companies hiring illegals.
2. Withdraw Federal funds from all sanctuary cities that harbor illegal aliens.
3. Stop the issuing of visas to anyone from any Middle Eastern country.
4. Cut off any and all aid to Mexico as long as it continues to subvert our border.
F. Pass term-limits for all of Congress. Six terms for the House and two terms for the Senate. Repeal the 17th amendment. Return the selection of Senators to the state legislators. Senators would then be free from fundraising 24/7 and could actually represent the people.
G. Invite the UN to leave the U. S. Cut the amount we contribute to this worthless organization.
H. Limit foreign aid to only those countries who are true allies of the U. S. Pouring money down U. S. hating third world countries should stop.
I. Bring home all our armed forces from Germany and South Korea.
J. Appoint Constitutional judges, who obey the Constitution, not make their own laws.
K. Install tort reform and reform our justice system.

McCain ?????
Well after reading the Goldberg take on McCain I still AIN'T going to back him. I agree wholeheartedly with Brian R and his assessment of McCain. Not only has he stabbed his own party in the back but also the president.
In my opinion he is second only to George Bush in pandering to the Amnesty group, and plays Lap Dog to Teddy Kennedy.
He has gone to the bank so many times and traded on his Vietnam experience, and how much money has he collected on book deals, and then has the audacity to attempt to silence other Vietnam Veterans such as the Swift Boats in order to protect his Democratic buddy John Kerry.

Grow up?
Hmm, as a conservative, I'm already a grown up. When the children (leftists and Establishment Republicans) won't behave, they need to be spanked and sent to their room.

When the moneymen and "pragmatists" in the GOP and make their decision and nominate McRomniani, it is just further evidence that the children either misunderstood 2006, or they are just obstinate. Either way, back to the room you go.

I'll vote Third Party proudly. I've done it many times in the past (Ron Paul in '88 was first). And for you GOP apologists out there, my vote is yours. My price, a principled conservative.

McCain did much to undermine the Party.
McCain led Conservatives AWAY from the polls.
He was the prime reason Democrats are in power now.

McCain/Finegold is not all he did to silence Grassroots politics.
He tried to do this too.
http://www.capwiz.com/sicminc/issues/alert/?alertid=9213151&type=CO

If ANY PART of this is true, McCain is a Manchurian Candidate.
http://www.geoffmetcalf.com/mccain.html

dyerje

Man did you nail it !

You cannot make government good, only keep it small and limit its powers. Too late for that !

We won't have total tyranny as long as we keep ourselves armed.

McCain = gun control & amnesty = no way
Guliani = gun control & amnesty = no way

McCain's stated views on the war in Iraq run counter to his open borders ideology, he and Bush seem to be cut from the same clothe.

Fred, I hope you get in the Race.

No to McCain-- and Thompson
I'll never vote for McCain in a Republican primary, and if he should get the nomination I'll seriously consider staying home or voting for the Libertarian Party candidate. This is based primarily on one issue; "campaign finance reform", which I view as an all-out attack on the Constitutional right of free speech and political activity. (As an analogy, imagine if the government ruled that you can attend any church you want, but you can only contribute money to churches the govt. approves of. Would "freedom of religion" still exist?) . McCain has been quoted as saying that if he has to choose between freedom of speech and "clean government", he'll pick "clean government". Even aside from the reality that "campaign finance reform" DOESN"T produce "clean government", making that choice in and of itself would be a violation of the Presidential (and I think Senatorial) oath of office to "preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States".

Some conservatives are swooning over the possibility of Senator-turned-TV-actor Fred Thompson running for President. However, according to columnist George Will, Thompson also has been a big backer of "campaign finance reform". If Will is correct, then Thompson is also unacceptable in my book.

I *might* waver on this if the general election turned out to be a close race between McCain, or Thompson, and Hillary Clinton. Otherwise, neither of them gets my vote.
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