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Friday, March 23, 2007
Jonah Goldberg :: Townhall.com Columnist
Turning up the Heat on Gore
by Jonah Goldberg
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Was the Copenhagen Global Warming Summit Walk-Out a Win for the U.S.?


As fate would have it, the same week Al Gore was testifying before Congress, I was doing a little testifying myself. Admittedly, there were a tad fewer paparazzi in the Madison, Wis., classroom where I was giving a talk on global warming (sponsored by Collegians for a Constructive Tomorrow, or CFACT). The debate in Washington offered some familiar echoes.

One student asked a long and rambling question that went basically as follows: He understood why I think Al Gore is dishonest and misleading. But how can I criticize Gore when all he wants to do is make people change their behavior and take care of this planet?

Translation: Gore is on the side of the angels and therefore it's mean-spirited to throw inconvenient truths back at the Oscar winner for "An Inconvenient Truth". "Yeah, exactly," the kid responded when I rephrased the question thusly.

The press and the Democrats seem to share this kid's sensibility. Covering Gore's congressional testimony, The Washington Post's Dana Milbank portrayed Gore as a man of science versus a bunch of creationist nutjobs. Milbank wrote: "... instead of giving another screening of 'An Inconvenient Truth,' the former vice president found himself playing the Clarence Darrow character in 'Inherit the Wind.'" It's an unintentionally accurate comparison, because the movie completely distorted the reality of the Scopes trial. The real Clarence Darrow contentedly lost the open-and-shut case after a nine-minute jury deliberation. The movie was about something bigger than the facts. So is Al Gore. And that's why his fans love him.

Gore says global warming is "a crisis that threatens the survival of our civilization and the habitability of the Earth." It's graver than any war. He compares it to the asteroid that allegedly killed the dinosaurs.

But here's the thing. If there were an asteroid barreling toward earth, we wouldn't be talking about changing our lifestyles, nor would we be preaching about reducing, reusing and recycling. We would be building giant wicked-cool lasers and bomb-carrying spaceships to go out and destroy the thing. But Gore doesn't want to explore geo-engineering (whereby, for example, we'd add sulfate aerosols or other substances to the atmosphere to mitigate global warming). Why? Because solving the problem isn't really the point. As Gore makes it clear in his book, "Earth in the Balance," he wants to change attitudes more than he wants to solve problems.

Indeed, he wants to change attitudes about government as much as he wants to preach environmentalism. Global warming is what William James called a "moral equivalent of war" that gives political officials the power to do things they could never do without a crisis. As liberal journalist James Ridgeway wrote in the early 1970s: "Ecology offered liberal-minded people what they had longed for, a safe, rational and above all peaceful way of remaking society ... (and) developing a more coherent central state."

This explains Gore's relentless talk of "consensus," his ugly moral bullying of "deniers" and, most of all, his insistence that because there's no time left to argue, everyone should do what he says.

Isn't it interesting how the same people who think "dissent is the highest form of patriotism" when it comes to the war think that dissent when it comes to global warming is evil and troglodytic?

"If your baby has a fever, you go to the doctor," Gore said this week. "If the doctor says you need to intervene here, you don't say, 'Well, I read a science fiction novel that told me it's not a problem.' If the crib's on fire, you don't speculate that the baby is flame retardant. You take action."

True enough. But if your baby's crib is on fire, you don't run to a politician for help either.

You can tell that Gore's schtick is about something more than the moderate and manageable challenge of global warming when he talks of sacrifice. On the one hand he wants everybody to change their lifestyles dramatically. These are the sacrifices the voracious energy user Al Gore won't have to make because he can buy "carbon credits" for his many homes and his jet-setting.

But when asked this week about the enormous and unwise costs his plan would impose on the U.S. economy (according to the global consensus of economists), Gore said that his draconian emissions cuts are "going to save you money, and it's going to make the economy stronger."

Wait a second. This is the gravest crisis we've ever faced, but if we do exactly as Gore says (but not as he does), we'll get richer in the process as we heal Mother Earth of her fever? Gore's faith-based initiative is a win-win. No wonder so many people think it's mean to disagree.

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About The Author
Jonah Goldberg is editor-at-large of National Review Online.
 
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Goldberg wrote
"The Washington Post's Dana Milbank portrayed Gore as a man of science versus a bunch of creationist nutjobs."

Well, isn't he? I mean, he did invent the internet, after all.

AG
What Al needs to do is start living like he wants the rest of us to live. He should sell his energy monster, or better yet destroy it, and build a smaller house that uses less electricity. He is the ultimate hypocrite. Do as he says not as he does.

Brian, that's part of his problem.
He peaked early. I mean, what do you do for an encore after you invent the internet?

Anyone interested
in a couple more good columns on good ol' Al is welcome to stop by my blog. Just click my name and scroll down to "Al KilGOREwatts."

AGW solutions
"Gore doesn't want to explore geo-engineering (whereby, for example, we'd add sulfate aerosols or other substances to the atmosphere to mitigate global warming)."

Probably because the example the author used is insane. It would mitigate global warming, all right. It would also mitigate ... sunlight! You know, that energy that falls on the planet that all surface-dwelling life forms depend on for existence? I'll grant that there's plenty of it, so we could survive with a little less, but that idea is solidly in the "last resort" category. Al Gore's suggestions, at their looniest, don't even come close to that drastic.

"But if your baby's crib is on fire, you don't run to a politician for help either."

True, but you don't ignore the doctor because a politician you don't like happens to agree with him.

"the enormous and unwise costs his plan would impose on the U.S. economy.."

Frankly, the more I hear this argument, the less sense it makes to me. I don’t know if you’ve ever seen An Inconvenient Truth, but one of the methods that Al Gore proposes for cutting greenhouse gas emissions is to improve energy efficiency for automobiles, raising the miles per gallon of gasoline. Now let’s consider a typical middle-class family, which drives a certain number of miles every month. If their car is more efficient, they use less gas for the same amount of miles, reducing the amount of money they spend. That’s money that isn’t being put into the gas tank, but instead can go to the college fund, or into the investment plan, or pay for a trip to Knot’s Berry Farm next Sunday. One of the trends going on now is to replace light bulbs with more efficient fluorescent ones. Assuming that no one in the family minds fluorescent bulbs (some people do, which is why I oppose making them mandatory), that means a lower electricity bill, freeing up more money in their budget for other uses. In essence, they're using their money more efficiently. And that's bad for the economy? I guess conservatives must be smarter than regular folks, because that's flying right over my head.

Frey...
For not liking Mr. Goldberg's argument, you certainly put up quite a strawman yourself. No sensible person here is against voluntary measures to save money by being economical. I'm totally for being a good steward of my resources.

If you don't like the idea of mandatory fluorescent bulbs, I don't think you'd like it if Gore was actually in charge of anything. In his run for POTOS in 2000, wasn't he proposing something like a $150,000,000,000 10-year budget for GW? Those are tax dollars, you know. He has always wanted to raise gas taxes further; are you for that too?

The burden of proof rests on Al Gore to demonstrate that any global warming that has occurred is man-made, AND that specific measures could prevent it. It's sloppy science to challenge your opponents to disprove what you haven't proven, and then actually ignore or simply denounce them. One more time: consensus does not equal science.

C'mon,Frey...
...this nonsense about MANDATORY gas mileage for vehicles,made up by politicians by simply passing a law,is good but MANDATORY light bulbs is bad? Once you start down the mandatory road there is no end to the attack on your liberty.Do you know where the idea of SUV'S came from?Politicians in Washington made mandatory mileage on CARS.They couldn't do it for trucks because the trucking lobbies were opposed.No trucks could make those nonsensical milage goals.But there was a demand for station wagons for large families(like mine)and for safety reasons on the highway.In order for auto manufacturers to meet the average standards established by politicians,they took the frame of a pickup truck and put the body on of a car on it,but they were classified as trucks and therefor were not included in the average mileage of the company's vehicle.That is why stationwagons have disappeared from the roads.

Private enterprise will always find a way around stupid politicians like Gore.

hot cots
Frey says:
‘"But if your baby's crib is on fire, you don't run to a politician for help either."
‘True, but you don't ignore the doctor because a politician you don't like happens to agree with him.’

Fair enough; but you don’t immediately empty a fire-extinguisher all over your infant (or, at least, I shouldn’t) merely because you hear an actress on the radio claiming she heard a politician asserting that all scientists not in the pay of the caitiff carpenters’ cartel concur that all cots will inevitably combust.

Don't take diet advice from a fat man
or advice on reducing the consumption of energy from a man who uses 20 times the amount of energy as you do.

I thought obesity was the most dangerous epidemic facing the earth today, particularly all the fat children who are dying of anorexia and bulemia because they can't wear Size Zero jeans. Al "Howard Taft" Gore would be just as believable if he started a crusade to put the world on a starvation diet as he is in telling everyone else to go back to living in caves without any heat, light or sanitation, while he continues to live in a mansion with servants.

Buy me the car, Frey
Frey, you talk about the money that a family would save if they had a more efficient car. That's a big "if." My wife and I are really not in a position to buy a super efficient car, so will you buy it for us?

This is the problem with the environmental movement: it imposes costs willy-nilly. Or, to use language Democrats can understand, it is in effect a regressive tax. Gore is suffering hardly at all from his campaign against global warming, but he wants people like me, who are much poorer, to shell out a great deal of money so he can feel good about himself.

As for the solution suggested by Mr. Goldberg, have you ever heard of volcanoes? These spew out a great quantity of particles that partially block the sun, but they do not wholly block the sun.

Gore's religion
"If your baby has a fever, you go to the doctor," Gore said this week. "If the doctor says you need to intervene here, you don't say, 'Well, I read a science fiction novel that told me it's not a problem.'

Note that he says you go to the doctor. Al isn't a doctor or a scientist. He's just another political buffoon.

We all remember that Gore flunked out of divinity school. Having flunked out of God, GW and the whole "Earth in the Balance" thing is his new religion. To have relevance, he must become the High Priest.

"Carbon Credits"
I'm trying to remember the term for it -- was it "indulgences" that folks used to buy from the pre-Reformation era Catholic Church when they wanted to "atone" for their sins, rather than repent and alter their way of living?

Seems to me that's exactly what a pious purchase of a "carbon credit" is -- a hypocritical liberal's modern day "indulgence" purchase.

Mr Buck
Who the heck mentioned Bush besides you ??

What is this? attempted guilt by association. We don't agree with you , so we mush be "Bush personified"

Oh since you decided to criticize creation, I am guessing then that your belief is that eons ago out of nothing "BANG". Then total random spewing of matter out of nowhere, randomly formed stars and planets. BANG="Let there be light".

Having said that, my problem with Gore is his hyperbole. Many people do not disagree that there is global warming of some sort by the source and amount. An environmentalist recently criticized Gore because his forecast of a 20 ft increase in the level of the oceans was 10x what most global warming scientist expect. Kin of like Gore's house, also 10x the average American's house.


Not science
Would someone please point me to the peer reviewed scientific journals where Gore has published his data?

Scientific progress does not come from political reports to the UN. It comes from scientists collecting data in repeatable experiments and publishing the results in journals for other scientists to review and to confirm or disprove the results. If this has happened in the field of the man-made global warming contingent of climatologists, I can't find it.

carbon credits
1. Govt. employee of newly created bureau comes to your house for annual carbon footprint inspection. 2, Govt. employee fines you for excessive footprint. 3. Govt. employee lets you continue what you are doing because after paying fine you are O.K. 4. You feel better because of all of this.

Looking for Science
"Scientific progress does not come from political reports to the UN. It comes from scientists collecting data in repeatable experiments and publishing the results in journals for other scientists to review and to confirm or disprove the results. If this has happened in the field of the man-made global warming contingent of climatologists, I can't find it."

Apparently you don't know what the IPCC report is. It's a review of all published literature done by scientists. If you actually READ the report instead of believing what Limbaugh or Goldberg tell you about it, you will find citations of peer reviewed lietrature backing up what they say. Or perhaps you could search Science or Nature or Jounral of Climate or American Geophysical Letters. I mean, honestly, if you can't find it, where have you been looking?


Outstanding Goldberg
For succinctly presenting Gore's vaccuous and contradictory justifications, but more importantly, for exposing the sinister ends of the Envirototalitarian Movement. Totalitarian power is all this movement has ever been about for the past half century. The pretexts and justifications have morphed over the years, as the core cadres have searched for that winning mix of pseudo-science, fear-mongering and dupability to create an army of half-wits demanding totalitarian rule. Sad to say that after 50 years of cumulative effort, they now have their army.

frey
"Frankly, the more I hear this argument, the less sense it makes to me. I don’t know if you’ve ever seen An Inconvenient Truth, but one of the methods that Al Gore proposes for cutting greenhouse gas emissions is to improve energy efficiency for automobiles, raising the miles per gallon of gasoline."

Frey, first you need Greenhouse Gases to cut. CO2 represents .03 of the atmosphere. As Terminus writes, we all look to save money AND be good stewards of our enviornment. But how can you take one seriously who won't himself do so? Al Gore wants me to fund his lifestyle so he won't feel guilty. The government take enough from me now.

If you want to know what this is truly about click on the link below. "The truth shall set you free."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XttV2C6B8pU

Boris Q
You may have read the report, but you still don't know what legitimate science is all about. The projection models used by the enviro-pseudo-scientists are flawed, unproven and speculative - by their own admission.

Science for Liberals
Ever learn about the "Scientific Method?"

The scientific method is the best way yet to distinguish the truth from lies and delusion!!

A theory is accepted not based on the PRESTIGE(say of a scientist's name) or convincing powers of the proponent(algore, the gov't,libs???, but on the results obtained through observations and/or experiments WHICH ANYONE CAN REPRODUCE!!!

The RESULTS obtained using the scientific method are REPEATABLE.

The IPPCC is a subjective organization. They interpret data...they conduct no research or experimentation. Wake up,people! There is more to the story that Gaia Gore and his liberal deciples.

???
"But, wait a minute! Al Gore suggests that the crisis is so indisputable and so dire that we should undertake a course that is so economically devastating (yes, that is REAL science, too) that it will condemn countless millions in coming years to poverty and death."

You actually believe this, huh? On what EVIDENCE is your opinion based? So the U.S. mandates better fuel efficiency and half of Africa dies? Id that your actual argument?

"At least we haven't (absurdly) been told yet again about the (ubiased and entirely scientific - ROTFLMAO!!) Realclimate.org, again."

Hmmm...what do you have against award winning scientists who publuish in the most prestigious journals in the world?

Saw something attention getting
I had not heard that Gore had recommended adding aerosols to the atmosphere. Talk about global warming. Clouds are formed by water condensing on aerosols ( small solid particles). More aerosols, more clouds. Clouds keep heat in. Don't believe me? Spend the night sometime in a desert area with no clouds around. The temperature will drop quickly after the sun goes down, because the heat radiates with nothing to keep it there.

Sophmoric Argument
The classroom exchange between Mr. Goldberg and a student is all too typical of what passes as academic reasoning on college campi. How can anyone not want to save the earth's environment? How can one be against peace? How can one not be in favor of equal rights? How could our founding fathers not be racists because so many of them had slaves? How can anyone be against a woman's right to choose? How can anyone be against privacy?
The mush in the brain helps explain the acceptance of Mr. Gore's nonsense among the college educated media elite...Expect nothing else.

not all conservatives are sceptics ...
and not all sceptics are conservatives.

As obvious as this statement should seem, I see too many people assuming that to doubt Mr. Gore’s assertions I must be right-wing. Actually, I am very liberal in my views for the most part: I believe in books and the seven liberal arts (from the Latin, “liber” for “book”), I believe in kids {in Latin, “liberi”), and I believe in freedom (“liber” is Latin for “free”). I’m all for shirtlifters buggering whom they want, abortionists plying their trade with State funding, and government employees telling people what and where they may eat; but, being the liberal humanist that I am, I’ve always wanted to be persuaded by facts rather than dogmatic assertions, and I aint gonna stop this logical method just because a supposed liberal comes along and tells me to accept the logical fallacy of the argument from authority.

Boris
The IPCC is a crock as I have already stated. There are just tons of scientific pubs out there who stand against the seriousness of Gore's Rants. Does logic ever come into play here? Have you figured out away to contain the Sun? Why is Mars' temperature and it's icecaps changing at the same rate as the earth? There are NO people there!!! Why are the polar bear populations increasing? Did you know that polar bears swim from ice sheet to ice sheet...and some of those are actually expanding? If the calims that they are disappearing were true, why would the population increase? Yikes! You people are scary...

Adding sulfates to the atmosphere?
Is someone serious about that as a solution? Didn't we just go through a decade of adding scrubbers to smokestacks and using low sulfur coal in order to limit acid rain?

The inviro-whackos can no longer move from one issue to the next without making fools of themselves.

Carbon credits
I feel the need to point out that Mr. Gore has purchased his "carbon credits" from a company that he owns. So he is paying himself for them. He is also encouraging others to buy these credits. I am not clear about how they work but if he wants to give me about $5,000 a year I promise to not buy a Lamborghini and drive it all day long. See, I can help the environment, too.

to Boris Q
" 'But, wait a minute! Al Gore suggests that the crisis is so indisputable and so dire that we should undertake a course that is so economically devastating (yes, that is REAL science, too) that it will condemn countless millions in coming years to poverty and death.' "

"You actually believe this, huh? On what EVIDENCE is your opinion based? So the U.S. mandates better fuel efficiency and half of Africa dies? Id that your actual argument?"

Boris link below. "The truth will set you free"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XttV2C6B8pU

Science, Business, and People
It's predictable and it's happened over and over. A science issue comes up that threatens popular acceptance of right-wing ideology (global warming, evolution, government regulation of drugs) and long impressive lists of scientists with major credentials, hundreds of them including dozens of heads of university science departments, write articles and books and sign petitions in support of the science. Then the Right produces a few of their own folk to say "that's ridiculous". Then we hear from hundreds of people who are not scientists and know little or nothing about science and their message is that the credentialed scientists are talking "pseudoscience" or "junk science". When a celebrity puts the force of his name behind science, he is ridiculed (currently we hear that Al Gore is too fat and that his house is too big, neither issue addressing why it is scientifically wrong for factories to pour their waste products into the nearest river).

This week the blather is anti-Al Gore. A year ago it was anti-evolution. At any given moment, it is anti-regulation.

As a child I often visited my grandmother, who lived in a steel mill town with seven working factories (these were the bustling days of World War II). Every smokestack belched black smoke which, in the air, turned into something called "fly ash" that coated every front porch, sidewalk, car, and street with gooey black dust. God knows what we breathed into our lungs. Those belching chimneys were seen as a sign of community virtue because business was booming and the war effort was going forward.

The idea that business is virtuous is long past its day. Business is not into stewardship of the earth or the people: it is into making money, at any social cost. In recent years business has been challenged by the environmental movement, which I haven't especially supported or been interested in, but I see that it does speak the truth when it points to polluted rivers that can't support fish, polluted earth where the cancer and leukemia rate among children rises, and polluted air that can't even support birds. Those too young to remember the Love Canal scandal may wish to google that term, if they are curious.

If business is forced by government to stop polluting, then business makes less money. God forbid the CEO should not get paid $100 million per year and all the executives get free Sky Boxes at the ball game. So conservatives are taught by right-wing message-carriers to reject and distrust environmental control, bringing the force of popular opinion around to support a business climate that is, in fact, hurting the earth and the people.

Stop and think. If possible.

Nee
"The IPCC is a crock as I have already stated. There are just tons of scientific pubs out there who stand against the seriousness of Gore's Rants."

"just tons," huh? Mind if you point to these "tons" of papers?

"Have you figured out away to contain the Sun?"

I assume you think that solar forcing is causing the recent temp. rise? But solar irradiance has not increased in the last 50 years. Here's a graph for the last 30:

http://www.pmodwrc.ch/pmod.php?topic=tsi/composite/SolarConstant


"Why is Mars' temperature and it's icecaps changing at the same rate as the earth? There are NO people there!!!"

Well, it can' be solar, because the trend is flat. In fact, go to the previous link and look at the last three years and you'll see TSI decreasing as part of the 11 year sunspot cycle. So it must be something happening on Mars. I've read orbital fluctuations or fewer dust storms.

"Why are the polar bear populations increasing? Did you know that polar bears swim from ice sheet to ice sheet...and some of those are actually expanding?"

You need to cite a source ofr ice sheets expanding, because this goes against all observations of arctic sea ice. I imagine the bears are doing well because of precautions that environmentalists have recommended. The future is not bright, however. No one claims they are disappearing, just that their habitat is.

Ignorance is what's scary.

Consensus
Terminus writes
One more time: consensus does not equal science.

But it's in no way uncommon for the scientific community to come to a "consensus".

Definition of Consensus: a group solidarity in sentiment and belief.

Thera are some slight differences in some of the scientists beliefs on how we got to the state our world is in now but they ALL agree on the true crisis we are approaching!

Wake up people... It's sad that every country in the world except 3, (one being us) see the problem we are facing and are agreesively working to correct it. Yet we are the biggest contributor to the problem.


A few inconvient truths:
To make cars more fuel efficient, means lighter frames THAT equals more highway deaths.

MOST surprising in this debate is that America is NOT just fighting for herself in this; we are also fighting for the DEVELOPING countries.

ALGORE would have the 'noble savages' REMAIN 'noble savages' with NO HOPE of developing. He/like minded are putting technology out of the reach of most African nations. It SOUNDS good to say, "use ONLY solar or wind power." But these are still very inefficient methods. And EXPENSIVE. Most developing nations can't AFFORD algor.

I was surprised at the BBC telecast (also on the net at you tube: The Great Global Warming Swindle is fantastic.

AlBore has a fever
and it's called malaria. Along with the disease comes the delirium.

90% reduction in AGW emissions by 2050
Al Gore told Congress that this is what must happen to avoid catastrophe. This is progress! This is the first time I have seen a clear public statement by an AGW “religionist” (especially one of the Reverend Al’s stature) that identifies the ultimate end point of the “Kyoto process”, which is definitely NOT “…7% below 1990 levels by 2050”. This position has previously been stated on a limited basis by “contraction and convergence” advocates, who suggest a 70% global reduction in CO2 emissions, which would require a 95% reduction in the US because of our higher energy use.

A 90% reduction by 2050 not only requires banning the construction of new coal-fired power plants (as Gore stated), but also the termination of the operation of all existing coal, natural gas and oil-fired power plants, the replacement of all natural gas, propane, oil and kerosene appliances with electric appliances, the replacement of all gasoline and diesel-powered vehicles (including trucks and trains) with electric and/or hybrid vehicles (fueled by ethanol or hydrogen).

The infrastructure costs would be at least $10 trillion. The incremental costs for hybrid vehicles, zero-emission fuels, etc. would add to this cost. This would not be "cheap and easy", as Senator McCain has suggested in the past.

Don't begin vast programs with half-vast ideas!


Worshipers of Al
Your hero, Al, is an egocentric idiot.

He keeps talking about something that doesn't exist in the real world, scientific consensus. In science there is theory and fact. A theory is only that until it can be proven. A fact is a theory that has been proven. Consensus is a bunch of people getting together and deciding the something must be so without proving it and for whatever reason, like it's the politically correct way to think. For example when ornithologists decide that because bird migration patterns are changing it must be because of man caused global warming.

Al has also been known to ignore facts when he doesn't like them or attack the messengers.

Al is an elitist who is trying to maintain his lifestyle while telling everybody else to change theirs. It's like me thanking all you Prius drivers for making sure I have enough gas for my SUV, pickup and boat.

His carbon offset credits are a scam that is also making money for him. It's like paying someone not to kill so you can and then claim the murder rate has not changed because the paid person isn't killing. You can replace murder with bank robbery or fidelity or something similar and still get the same results.

How many grown trees,not the newly planted small ones, does it take to clean up the air from the jet fuel Al burns or the 20x amount of power in one of his houses and how long does it take them?
Does investing in a "green friendly" company really count for ofsetting your carbon footprint?

Wouldn't it be better if Al led by example rather than by expending more CO2 giving speaches? You know, live in one modest house; drive a small car and fly coach on a comercial airliner? But then the High Priest of scam wouldn't feel as important.

ITS ABOUT MONEY
Gore's movies and his testimony before Congress are nothing more than lobbying for his business. He makes money off his carbon offsets and he'll be glad to sell you some.

Who gets to do the actual offsets? Working people, off course.

Mistake
I was thinking - many have used the evidence that there is recordable global warming on other planets in our solar system to claim that humans are not the cause.

Isn't it just as viable to claim that since we have scientific evidence that humans are causing global warming on earth that there MUST be humans on other planets as well? That seems to be as viable logically and scientifically as Gore's claims.

Leftists should hate peer review
None of the true believes has mentioned peer review yet, but it's just a matter of time before they do. With that in mind, let me give five reasons why leftists should hate peer review.

1. Academia is, currently, extremely hierarchical, and peer review is one of the devices used to maintain that hierarchy. Since leftists hate hierarchies, they should hate peer review.

2. Those who are at the bottom of the hierarchy are typically those who are poorer and who went to non-elite schools. They are the typical victims of peer review.

3. There are no checks-and-balances in peer review, and it is done in private. If the criminal-justice system, which has an appeals system and is done in public, is regarded by leftists as unjust, then why would they imagine that peer review is just? What guarantees that it is just?

4. The very name “peer review” is an inaccurate phrase, when considered from the standpoint of power relations in academia. “Elite review” or “review by the empowered” would be more accurate terms. And when characterized in either of those ways, it is perfectly obvious that the left should hate it.

5. Peer review suffers from the referee’s paradox. This paradox goes as follows. Who is best qualified to judge (or referee) an article? The best qualified are those who are in the article’s sub-field. But those people also ought not to be allowed to do it because it represents a conflict of interest for them. But to let others judge the article is to have it be judged by those who aren’t fully qualified. Thus, no one can be trusted to judge an article, either because it’s a conflict of interest for them or because they aren’t fully qualified.

This last is especially important for global warming. I suspect what is happening is that once it was decided by some that global warming was happening, the true believers among scientists then used their power to reject any article that had evidence against global warming.

I've seen peer review up close, and I do not trust it, especially when it comes to allowing alternative viewpoints a chance to be heard.

Flying,Frey
Now, would that be flying in a private Lear Jet with Al and his buddies?? The truth is, other countries such as France (which we know is the poster child for the left) uses nuclear power. China is also building nuclear plants, as well as coal plants that we, in turn, are paying them to take down. That last bit of info comes from Al himself. So, no, conservatives are not hiding from "the truth". We just want to be able to hear both sides, that's all. Al is not the final word on this issue. Also, hear he's making a bundle on his carbon credit company. We're not hearing about that, now, are we??
It's real hard for thinking folks to take Al and the rest seriously while your limo libs are hollering do as we say, not as we do.


To firetoice
Your estimate is way under. Assuming $5 billion per 1000MWe nuclear plant replacing the output of all of the fossil burners (70% of generation) it will cost 10E+12 dollars (I don't know a noun name for numbers this high). That is just for electricity generation as it currently is. If you replace all of the other fossil burning stuff with electricity this would go up exponentially. The costs are just enormous. As I said the other day, we would be turned back to some apocalyptic society like Mad Max.

To all you libtards who decry that we are not providing evidence for our assertions, we are long past that here. We have had tons of studies and works by reputable scientists (as apposed to politicians) that we have linked to. We are not going back and providing all this stuff over again because you are too lazy to go back and read it.

To Boris Q who says that solar activity is not increasing; BS.

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/sun_output_030320.html

http://www.nasa.gov/centers/goddard/news/topstory/2003/0313irradiance.html

You should link to people who are actually studying the sun instead of DAVOS who is interested in propaganda for AGW.

Mister Buck
Here's 2
http://www.intellicast.com/DrDewpoint/Library/1210/

Another meteorologist (WSI Chief meteorologist), knows lots more about temperature , dew points , and hurricanes than Mr. Gore.

Re: Hyperbolic responses
Hyperbolic responses, such as "it is beyond dispute" or "every country in the world" make it hard to seriously accept an argument, whether it is otherwise sound or not. Hyperbole has no place in a scientific debate.
Also, to say something is 'beyond dispute' removes it from the realm of science and into the realm of faith. Only articles of faith may be claimed to be beyond dispute, and even then, they are only beyond dispute to those who accept them.
As far as global warming, both sides have some pretty compelling evidence, and I think the focus of the debate is more 'is it man-made or not'. From what I've seen, I lean toward 'not'. Unfortunately, to make that assertion means to admit it may be beyond our control, which we as a species do not like to admit. I actually had this debate with an acquaintance. He advocates the severe measures advocated by Gore and his ilk, and when I pointed out that it is very likely a lot of it will turn out to simply be empty gestures, he responded with, "So what. It'll make people feel better, and it won't hurt anything, even if it helps." That is a very scary sentiment, for that way lies wasted resources. It's tantamount having a leak in your boat so you drill another hole in the bottom for the water to flow out. You may very well cause unintended consequences that are worse than the original problem.
One example of this is CF bulbs. I like them and I use them. They have a lower TCO, and I like the casual brightening first thing of a morning when I get out of bed, rather than the harsh glare of incandescence. However, to advocate everyone using this is one of those 'sounds good but isn't really' scenarios. These things contain all sorts of nasties, such as mercury. The sort of person who has to be legislated into buying these bulbs is not the type of person who will readily recycle them. Instead, the discards will wind up in a landfill, thus creating a new environmental problem.
I'd much prefer to let the scientific community discuss the effects and causes of issues such as global warming, and have politicians, such as Mr. Gore, do as little as possible (about anything really. The less they do, the better.)

a Scooter Libby link?
At least Gore admitted the water vapour is the main greenhouse gas. I wonder if finding out that lying to a congress can send you to jail for perjury changed Gore's presentation at all.

I also wonder if the Republicans should look over his testimony with a fine tooth comb and see if a case can be made.

Mr Buck
I know you asked Nee, but here's 3 & 4.

http://www.co2science.org/scripts/CO2ScienceB2C/about/position/globalwarming.jsp

Markm,
I tend to agree with you. Well-said"

Tectonic Movement Shifts Earths Axis
I studied Engineering Mechanics in Grad School and attended classes on gyroscopes and tops. The math showed the spin sensitivity of tops and gyroscopes to imbalance, with resulting precession and nutation. The Earth is a free-floating gyroscope. Remembering that the Americas once were part of a "master" continent called Pangaea, the floating and movement of the tectonic plates to their present positions has been enough to cause many shifts in the spin axis of the earth. Every earthquake is caused by a shifting of the tectonic plates. The change in the spin axis, because of the mass of our planet, may not be apparent for decades. Now, how much of a fraction of a degree in spin axis change will cause the weather to warm up one or two degrees? The tectonic plate shift along with fluctuation in the sun's energy can easily explain ice ages and subsequent warmings.

If anyone is concerned about CO2, they should get busy replacing the hundred of thousands of ash and elm trees devastated by disease. Then get busy globally in drawing attention to clear cutting in Indonesia and the Amazon. The main components of trees are cellulose and lignin, carbon based compounds. The result of nature's manufacture of wood is Oxygen.

The Inconvenient Truth
Even if we accept as fact every one of Al Gore's overhyped doom and gloom prophecies about what will happen because of global warming (many of the scientists he claims to base his prophecies on have gone on the record as not accepting them, but let's do so, just for the sake of argument), what are we really talking about here?

New York City and New Orleans, and probably a few other cities built in really stupid locations, will be submerged. Okay, I can live with that. And it will probably generate a whole new industry in city-under-the-sea scuba diving excursions, which I could definitely live with.

A bunch of people who live in these cities built in really stupid locations will have to move, or, more correctly, we will have to discourage new people from moving into them as the waters rise. Okay, not the best outcome, but we've got about 100 years to do this (according to Al), so we're not really talking about forcing anyone out of their homes as much as we are talking about placing some areas off limits for future habitation. We do that all the time with forests and no one seems to mind all that much. Besides, there are vast expanses of land out west well above any conceivable future water line just waiting to be put to a more productive use than shots for scenic postcards.

The temperature will rise, although how much is still unclear. Okay, the human race has already shown it can live in areas with temperatures considerably higher than they are now (just ask the people in Egypt), so this doesn't seem to be such a terrible thing. And, as Vladimir Putin has noted, if you live in Siberia (or the Canadian Arctic, or Alaska) a little global warming doesn't sound so bad. And just think, the warmer the temperature gets, the less fuel oil, coal, and wood we'll have to burn to keep warm, which will mean lower emissions in the future.

So what exactly is Al complaining about?

Vic
Did you see the Solar Flare on the lead page of Fox News online? Great photo.

Vic
Do you actually read the articles you post?

"Although the inferred increase of solar irradiance in 24 years, about 0.1 percent, is not enough to cause notable climate change, the trend would be important if maintained for a century or more."

The trend is not important NOW and cannot explain current warming, though it could contribute in 100 years.

"That does not mean industrial pollution has not been a significant factor, Willson cautioned."

So, read the articles before you post them and call the lack of a significant trend B.S.

You also say:
"We have had tons of studies and works by reputable scientists (as apposed to politicians) that we have linked to"

lol, no you haven't.

Lunatics in Charge of the Asylum
Folks, I will remain skeptical about this whole global warming thing until we have a lot more evidence that 1) it truly exists and 2) we humans are the cause of it. I just think it is the height of arrogance to assume we have such a huge effect on something with a planetary scale like this. For instance can someone explain why so many said that the 2005-2006 hurricane season (which included Katrina) was caused by global warming yet the 2006-2007 season has been very mild. To me this just shows that climate does go back and forth on a regular basis just as it has for centuries. Anyone over 35-40 probably remembers that during the 70's many scientists said we were headed into an Ice Age. See how that worked out. Also it is insulting to be compared to Holocaust deniers just because I disagree with you. This especially hits home for me because I have a brother-in-law who is Jewish who lost relatives in the concentration camps. I also had an uncle who fought in Europe in WWII and saw some of the camps and his reputation and integrity has always been impeccable. No one would dare say he made this up. But this is off the subject. I am glad to debate reasonable people who disagree with me but I draw the line at insults and name calling.

Profit or Greed?
It is no large matter
to see through the veil,
the immoral motives
of those whose who avail,
to judge for themselves
our interest and need.

Through every concoction
they hope to succeed,
to blot out from reason
"Profit or Greed?"

PROFIT = economic gain from what you own, produce or control (capital) by free exchange. This is the prime directive of capitalism and the nature of a (true) market economy.

GREED = economic gain from what others own, produce or control by coercion. This is the prime directive of socialism and the nature of a (false) political economy.


AlGore's World

Yes, indeed, AlGore has a lot of energy for a man his size. It's too bad he doesn't us it for the War on Terror. If we don't win that, the debate on Global Warming can't occur. We'll all be dead or reading the Koran all day.

I checked my crystal ball a little while ago. It shows only a possible future, and the one I saw was being run by the Liberals. Ouch!!

Alcoholic beverages were banned again, although the Libs waited until the passing of Ted Kennedy and Chris Dodd. Milk and Toast bars became very popular.

Automobiles were banned. Auto racing was still allowed, but it had to take place indoors, using battery-run motors. Air scrubbers and high velocity ventilation was required, as were earmuffs for all spectators---who also had to wear seat belts. Daily activities for the populace had to be undertaken via horse or horse and carriage. Mandatory gas scrubbers and diapers must be worn by the horses. The same with cows in the field.

The factories making batteries had to be run by battery. The same with power plants. Light bulbs were banned, and the populace was forced to rely only on daylight, since any open flame was banned as well. Nightlife almost disappeared, though underground spots remained carefully opened with bathtub gin and rotgut---and a few battery-operated light bulbs.

At this point, I threw my crystal ball against the wall where it shattered.

No more science-fiction for me. How about you, Al?

I never got that, anyhow...
regarding the leftist fallacy "well, they did prove that he's a big fat liar, but cut him some slack because he pointed out a real problem."

It's as if suddenly, when you become a liberal, the burden of credibility disappears right out the window. You can be as dishonest and distort the facts so long as you tout the party line.

Then if a conservative or even moderate makes a mistake, they are liars and can never be trusted again. Have some hypocracy with that kool-aid, i suppose.

What liberal socialists don't realize is, outside of their microcosms, that kind of baboonery destroys their credibility. We simply cannot take them seriously, nor should we. If you think it's ok to lie for the sake of a truth, then how can we know you aren't lying for the sake of a lie? Truth generally tends towards more truth, so presumably there should be no need to lie at all, unless in fact there is really nothing to the house of cards that you are building. Like say, if it is emotion driven, especially hate driven (like the Bush-hate crowd), and facts are only optional.

Carbon credits
CARBON CREDITS=PAPAL INDULGENCES.
How does he sleep at night?

Also, I would like everyone who has a "Question Everything" bumper sticker to stop the hypocrisy, stand up, and start asking questions.

To firetoice
This may show up twice, the system ate the first post.

Your estimate is way under. Assuming $5 billion per 1000MWe nuclear plant replacing the output of all of the fossil burners (70% of generation) it will cost 10E+12 dollars (I don't know a noun name for numbers this high). That is just for electricity generation as it currently is. If you replace all of the other fossil burning stuff with electricity this would go up exponentially. The costs are just enormous. As I said the other day, we would be turned back to some apocalyptic society like Mad Max.

To all you libtards who decry that we are not providing evidence for our assertions, we are long past that here. We have had tons of studies and works by reputable scientists (as apposed to politicians) that we have linked to. We are not going back and providing all this stuff over again because you are too lazy to go back and read it.

To Boris Q who says that solar activity is not increasing; Bull Stuff:

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/sun_output_030320.html

http://www.nasa.gov/centers/goddard/news/topstory/2003/0313irradiance.html

You should link to people who are actually studying the sun instead of DAVOS who is interested in propaganda for AGW.

What to do, What to do?
What to do about all the volcanoes, termites, and cows that are contributing to this problem? Have they seen Al and his movie? Are they going to cease their immense contributions to the problem?

When nature contributes more to the GW problem by factors of magnitude, I fail to see how we as humans can be so audacious to think we even have an impact.


Fletch
Fletch have you actually read any of the material that the IPCC supposedly "peer reviewed", or as Dr Wegman of the NAS referred to politely as a social network?

The last IPCC review contained the infamous MBH98 multi-proxy 1000 year temp reconstruction (The Hockey Stick). Two years after publication, 2 independent statisticians found 3 major errors, not to mention at least one case of scientific fraud. Yet, the peer review process caught none of this. Slowly, the IPCC has been pulling the famous Hockey Stick from thier list of refrences. The IPCC and its peer review process is a joke.

The other thing you seemed to conviently ignore is the actual targets of CO2 concentration that have been subjectively established by Kyoto and other UN protocols. They are demanding that we reduce our carbon concentrations to 1990 levels. That means not only must we reduce our current rate of CO2 emissions, but must reduce current levels of CO2 to 1990 levels. CAFE standards as anyone in the automotive sector knows does not mean that CO2 levels will be reduced. Improved engine efficiency means that gas consumption per mile is decreased, which means people can drive more at less cost per mile. This is what happened since 1976, resulting in more traffic and auto use; simply put, when you reduce the cost of one item, you guarentee that it will be used more.

There is only one way that the goverment can implement Kyoto, and that is to drastically increase the costs of everything from manufacturing, energy, and auto use. That is, to ration energy. The goverment must force society to do this. The economic depression which would ensue would be catastrophic. Every economists worth his salt knows this. Outside of nuclear power, there are no viable alternatives to fossil fuels. The only thing the use of ethanol has done is to triple to price of corn futures. Politically speaking, it would be suicide.

Vic
My estimate is based on $1,500 per kW, which has been achieved in other countries but is probably politically impossible here. My estimate also does not include the incremental cost of zero-emissions fuels or the incremental investment in high efficiency end use equipment.

In a revision to the famous words attributed to the late Senator Everett McKinley Dirksen (R, IL): "A trillion here, a trillion there, pretty soon you're talking about real money." In this case, 2-5% of US GDP annually over the period.

My observation is that almost everyone involved tries to trivialize the cost and dislocation which would result. I believe this is not only naive, but very dangerous. Signing on to Kyoto is like being "a little bit pregnant".

Don't begin vast programs with half-vast ideas!

Boris
You sound as though you have researched this thoroughly and are intelligent. There is evidence that the Earth is warming, true, but it is the cause of this warming that is in doubt. It has been noted that Mars is warming up- are the Martians being poor stewards or is there something larger at work? Where is the evidence that any actions we take will work in reality or in theory? Why were many climatologists warning about the new Ice Age just 20-25 years ago? Why have several scientists removed their name from the IPCC? Why did the IPCC release it's recommendations months before it's report? Why do developing nations like China and India not have to abide by Kyoto since they are the biggest polluters on the horizon? Why are EU nations that actually claim to follow Kyoto not seeing the results they expected? Why is the evidence that GW is due to the activity of the Sun ignored? Why do people like Al Gore want us to do with less when they obviously will not? VERY IMPORTANT-Why are we still using computer models proven to be flawed? Do you know that the models we do have can only consider 2 of the 12 or 13 KNOWN variables that affect the environment? This is because it takes the most powerful computers in the world to consider just two variables. To add a third would require a computer many times faster than any that exist today to work for years on the problem. To add a fourth or more is theoretically impossible at this point. And we only KNOW 12 or 13; do you really believe that there are only that many factors or variables? Why can meteorologists not predict the weather even 3-4 days out? I spoke to a computer engineer today who has been in the business since it began; at 76 he still works full-time in the field. He called the computer modeling "hogwash" for these exact reasons. Boris, if the answers to these questions or the questions themselves make you uncomfortable, they should.

Carbon Credits like MLB Salary Cap
The cap was to ensure that large market teams wouldn't gobble up all of the talent. If you exceeded your salary cap, you had to pay the MLB Luxury Tax.

Since the cap was enforced, The Yankees payroll went from $90 million to $200 million. Last year, Steinbrenner paid the MLB $26 million in Luxury taxes.

Carbon Credits are a scam. They do not reduce atmopsheric CO2. Gore, despite buying Carbon Credits still produced a large amount of CO2. IF the bottom line ins CO2 reduction then the entire thing is a scam.

At last an idea and not a knee jerk
Most posters on this topic tend to either poo poo the idea of GW out of hand or say its a natural occurrence and nothing to worry about. Finally, an idea: geo engineering with sulphates in aerosols. It might be a wacky idea, but deserves to be examnined.

Global warming may or may not be happening. While many of you are professionals in various scientific and engineering fields, I am not and must rely on "experts". If they tell me to do a little now to prevent a catastrophy later and my prudent judgement agrees, I'll go ahead and do it. If your prudent judgement says GW is a hoax/myth, sit on your hands and do nothing.


Right story, wrong character
.
Goldberg got the story correct (Inherit the Wind) but compared Algore to the wrong character. Algore is not Clarence Darrow; he is the Bible-thumping Williams Jennings Bryant, the religious fundamentalist whom you dare not question on pain of apostasy.

Mister Buck
Only a Lonney-Lib can work Bush & Iraq into a global warming thread BUT I am disappointed that you left out

Karl Rove, Cheney, Halliburton, WMD...etc

BTW
Nee said; "There are just tons of scientific pubs out there who stand against the seriousness of Gore's Rants."

And you asked him to name three. I'll make it easier for you.

Name ONE that backs up Gore's wacky, hysterical, hyperbolic, "scientific facts"... but please make it one that wasn't paid for or written by politicians (in other words, make it a REAL SCIENCE JOURNAL)


BHL
"If they tell me to do a little now to prevent a catastrophy later and my prudent judgement agrees, I'll go ahead and do it."

A 90% reduction in US CO2 emissions hardly qualifies as "a little".

Boris
You need to educate yourself on astro physics. Sun spot activity is just one indication of solar activty. Since 1997, there have been dozens of solar storms -the most recent last Winter. You libs will latch onto anything. Solar irradiance research has been driven pretty much by the Russians -they lead the field on this. They paint a much different picture.

Since 1974, the amount of solar activty from the Sun has increased as compared to the 1939-1970 era. The Russians using advanced satellite imagery have plotted the inter regions of the near solar surface. The increase in the solar mass since the 70s, according to the Russians has been small (you need special satellites to do this) is related to an increase in energy that sun emits. The 35-50 year temperature oscillations the earth has seen since the end of the LIA coincides with this feature. Another way to measure solar ouput is to measure the amount of Byrilleum-11 isotope found in ice cores. The amount of this element is inversely proportional to the amount of direct insolation that hits the earth. Currently, Byrilleum-11 is 15% less when compared to the last cold period (1939-1977).

The Russians believe we are at the tail end (8-15 year) period of a solar maximum. Within the next 5-8 years, we will begin a steady period of cooling which will last at least 40 years. All of this due to decreased solar ampflication. The negative climate feedback due to this is already in motion.

I must have been zapped
I sent 3 websites here for Mister Buck of meteorologists who disagree with Gore's representation.

They disappeared. Oh well Must be a vast left wing conspiracy.

Boris Q writes...
Well, it can' be solar, because the trend is flat. In fact, go to the previous link and look at the last three years and you'll see TSI decreasing as part of the 11 year sunspot cycle. So it must be something happening on Mars. I've read orbital fluctuations or fewer dust storms.

Try this out Boris. This just in. Scientists are dscovering that the sun is much more volitile than previously thought and all previous imagery is obsolete. So much for your "chart for the past 30 years" or your decreasing TSI.

Why is it that real science keeps evolving and growing and you blowhards keep churning out the same old crap from 30 years ago. And while we're at it, where's our ice age that should be happening now as predicted by "science" and reported as the cover story on Newsweek April 28th, 1975? Once that hits, that should solve the global warming problem. Now where did I put the keys to my Suburban? I'm late for my appointment for a fitting for my new polar bear coat.

http://space.newscientist.com/article/dn11432?DCMP=ILC-Top5&nsref=dn11432

BHL
To put the numbers in perspective, if the federal government reduced its share of GDP from the current 18.4% to approximately 16% by cutting the federal budget, the capital required to fund the reduction of CO2 emissions in the US by 95% by 2050 would be available to those required to make the investments. Just like Senator McCain said: "cheap and easy".

Lily
Do you really think that the "Companies" are going to make less? You have a naive misunderstanding of the world. A company makes as much as it can for it's stockholders, people like you and me. If you have an IRA or 401K, you are a stockholder. When these companies do well, you do well. When we implement Kyoto, guess what? Your portfolio value will decrease and you will have less to retire on and might have to work longer. Oh, and the company will just raise prices and cut costs such as labor. So tell me how much better we are then. All this for an unproven phenomenon with an unclear etiology. And Mr. Gore is taking heat for his excessive energy consumption as proof that he is a hypocrite- he wants to severely restrict our energy usage but does not intend to do so himself. And to bring up Love Canal and "factories dumping their waste into the nearest river" is disingenuous; it is a completely different topic. I do not dispute the fact that we have to not allow polluting of out waterways; this is an issue of politics, not science. And one of your "pseudoscientists" that is dcrying GW is the top climatologist at MIT. I presume that you are more educated than this gentleman and understand the issues much better! I wonder how long before you get off the bandwagon as the contrary evidence mounts.

Acid?
I did not do well in chemistry but if you add sulfates to water , don't you get H2SO4?

If so Gore' cure may be worse that the disease. Cure the fever and scar the patient to use his analogies

I founf this entry that said:
"Sulfates occur as microscopic particles (aerosols) resulting from fossil fuel and biomass combustion. They increase the acidity of the atmosphere and form acid rain."

Toyota Prius polutes more than H2
Read a great article, I wish I kept the link. I'll paraphrase and summarize.

Hybrid vehicles rely on a Nickel hydride batteries.

There is a single plant in canada that processes the nickel for these batteries. The process of refining the nickel for these batteries has huge environmental consequesnces for the surrounding area including polution of the groundwater, decimation of surrounding forestation and wildlife.

Secondly, all of the nickel that is used needs to be transported to this plant from where it is mined from all over the world, turned into batteries and then shipped to where the cars are manufactured, then the cars are shipped around the world. All of this transportation is diesel powered be it ship, train or truck and releases hundreds of millions of tons of C02 into the air.

The net/net of the article is that it is better for the environment to buy a Hummer H2 and drive it for 100,000 miles.

This was all expressed very eloquently in terms of tons of C02 released into the atmosphere etc.

If anyone happend to read the article I would love to see it again.

Try this Mr Buck
Another site
This one is balance vs the Gorebots


http://www.co2science.org/scripts/CO2ScienceB2C/Index.jsp

Boris,Mr. Buck
Boris...you said,
"You need to cite a source ofr ice sheets expanding, because this goes against all observations of arctic sea ice."
Here it is:
http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/1115356v1

And for Mister Buck...
You libs like to take it literal...Tons, can mean many, alot, etc...Just trying to show that they do exsit. And the amount of documents out there to show the facts are weighing in the TONS.
I agree that GW is a presence. What I do not agree with is this alarmist sh*t. I would like to see cleaner everything, but to say it is all a human's fault is preposterous at best. Really.

"We urge the United States government to reject the global warming agreement that was written in Kyoto, Japan, in December 1997, and any other similar proposals. The proposed limits on greenhouse gases would harm the environment, hinder the advance of science and technology, and damage the health and welfare of mankind.

There is no convincing scientific evidence that human release of carbon dioxide, methane, or other greenhouse gases is causing or will, in the foreseeable future, cause catastrophic heating of the Earth's atmosphere and disruption of the Earth's climate. Moreover, there is substantial scientific evidence that increases in atmospheric carbon dioxide produce many beneficial effects upon the natural plant and animal environments of the Earth."
15,000 Scientists signed this petition. Does that make them less reputable because they are not as famous as the next guy? The Kyoto treaty was not signed by Clinton or Bush because of it's disatrous economic implications to this Country. And Algore would have everyone believe the earth is going to go poof! if we don't od aomething now.
Man is not the whole reason for this. Can man help to slow the process, maybe. Or, maybe it is cyclical in nature, as is the evolution of conditions to accomodate those changes.If we continue to document those things, the truth will be shown.
I refuse to stoop to the idiot scare tactics and buy carbon credits or use flourescent bulbs because some dimwit thinks he knows WTF he is talking about. Were his name Einstein, Lindzer, Sherwood, maybe.
Science is not based on consensus and that is all you get out of the alarmists. I want to see tangible reproduceable experimentation. Period.

Dude3344
The MSM will NEVER put anything contrary to the Gorelephants raving lunacy...
And everyone else...ahhh I mean Fox News is too busy bashing BIG AL's absurd statements to provide what they figure must be 'common sense' to their viewers.

Take this!
I'm so frustrated with TH's post-gobbling forums that's going out back and shooting an aerosol can with a gun!

Of Note:
Gore is a fool all know that, more misdrirctio.

Only because TownHall does not have the courage itself to do this.

President Bush's support of the Am-nasty, and the Congress getting into the "coyote" buss.
"$2,000 each for safe passage is a real bad thing aka "evil money cult work", its bad, bad,bad.

now try it TownHall your fingers will not fall off

Carbon offsets and logic
If carbon offsets actually work as Al Gore claims, then it stands to reason that the Earth will self correct. A warmer planet means more plant life. More plant life means a larger carbon sink. A larger carbon sink means more CO2 removed from the atmosphere which then reduces the greenhouse effect. Logically then, either carbon offsets are a scam, or the carbon offsets will occur naturally meaning selling them is a scam.

Al Gore is a hypocrit
and a dishonest liberal politician for buying carbon credits from a company that he owns, all the while trying to sell them to others.

As stated in a previous post, carbon credits are a scam that do nothing to reduce CO2. They have as much substance as the hot air that Gore spews eveytime he opens his mouth!

Food for thought, if we use Gore's energy consumption as a bench mark, the way I see it, most of us already have a lot of carbon credits in the bank.

What exactly is a carbon credit anyway? Are they similar to a black hole in that we think they exist or we know they exist, but in any case you can't see them.

I think I'll get into the business of selling carbon credits and black holes! I'm sure all those idiots that payed to have a star named after them would be willing dupes!

BigGMoney- Prius Article
The article was on Cheat Seeking Missiles, and was entitled "Prius More Enviro Harm Than A Hummer".

Link;

http://cheatseekingmissiles.blogspot.com/2007/03/
prius-more-enviro-harm-than-a-hummer

I'm hoping this works, as TH has been wonky all week from my browsers (IE6 and Firefox 2.0.0.2).

cheers

eon

Too bad
Al can't purchase logic offsets.

Big Al Gory Mountains
with apologies to Harry McClintock

On a summer day in the month of May a burly Gore came hiking
Down a shady lane through the sugar cane, he was looking for his liking.
As he roamed along he sang a song of the land of milk and honey
Where a crook can stay for many a day, and he will get some money

Oh the buzzin' of the bees in the CO2 absorbent’ trees near the soda water fountain,
At the lemonade springs where the Whackos sing on the Big Al Gory Mountains

There's a host of schemes we can all have dreams, and the handouts grow on bushes
In the new-mown hay we can sleep all day, and the bars all have free lunches
Where the mail train stops and there ain't no cops, and the folks are tender-headed
Where you never change your socks and you all throw rocks,
And your theory is never shredded

Oh, a farmer and his son, they were on the run, to the hay field they were bounding
Said the Gory to the son, "Why don't you believe in the big Al Gory mountains?"
So the very next day they talked away, the politicians they were counting
But they never voted on the bill they noted, at the Big Al Gory Mountains

More to come…

Try Again

http:/cheatseekingmissiles.blogspot.com/2007/03/prius-more-enviro-harm-than-a-hummer

Scopes trial
Goldberg dismisses Milbank's comparison of Al Gore to Clarence Darrow in the Scopes trial. Yes, Darrow lost the case. Not surprising, considering the level of sophistication on his jury (one member said the only Darwin he had heard of was a farmer). But any victory that William Jennings Bryan won was a classic case of winning the battle but losing the war. The trial drew national attention to the creationist case and served to discredit it. Much like the continuing lame arguments of global warming denier serve to discredit their case.

Gore Actually Damages His Own Cause
Not just because Al is a complete hypocrite on the issue, but because he admittedly embellishes what he believes to be the truth and thinks that strengthens his arguement. In what fantasy land was Al informed of this tidbet of psycho-analytical BS? Not only are AL's embellished so called facts bad; what he chose to embellish isnt even the truth...not even inconviently. So what do you called embellished non-truths?

Al's starting premise is where he fails. By blaming ONLY man, he immediately leaves the scientific realm and delves into the political one. By basically ignoring the half-dozen natural mechanisms responsible for all of earth's past countless warming and cooling events, he only minimizes his conclusions of man's ultimate responsibility to control his carbon output.

Something That Isn't Clear To Me...

Who does one pay when one buys carbon credits? And how much?


-CB-

Science
I like Dude3344's suggestion made at 12:19, but the challenge would be to find scientists divorced from political influence or without preconceived notions regarding the results. Even so, man-made GW would be essentially impossible to prove, because we are incapable of knowing all the relevant influential variables.

For a good (but fairly long) discussion of the historical implications of science versus consensus or "common sense", check out this link:

http://crichton-official.com/speeches/speeches_quote04.html

To Creighton Beryll
Here is one of many availble. Albore actually has a company also. There is one in NZ that I ran across who will plant a tree in your name for 49.00. When the tree is 50 years old they will sell it to a lumber company so that the carbon can be permanently "sequestered" in new housing construction. I don't have that link anymore.

http://www.self.org/cnc.asp

2 more questions about Gore
Since Zinc pollutes, but is needed for batteries, has his family clean up or paid zinc credits for the Gore Zinc mine.

Based on an interview that I saw featuring an environmentalist, does Gore exaggerate everything by 10x?

The environmentalist said that the ocean rise was likely to be 2-3 ft vs the 20 ft Gore predicted.

I see where his house is 10x the size of the average American (US) house.

I bet it doesn't exaggerate his earnings to the IRS.


The Libs own bible debunks AGW
http://www.timeswatch.org/articles/2007/20070313220507.aspx

AND;
Algore's main supporters are the EnviroNazis.
Wait till they learn that Algore owns TWO zink mines that pollute a river, all the surrounding land and air with some toxic substance contained in two mountains of white powder tailings from the mines.

I bet they make Algore clean it up!

Girth In The Balance
As High Priest of Global Warming, energy-glutton Al Gore and his fellow co-religionists will never allow a multitude of inconvenient facts to interfere with their Brave New Orthodoxy. Just as Gore was unable to accept the fact that recount after recount after recount proved he lost Florida in 2000, he's not about to let dissenting voices shake the delusional little world he's created for himself and his lackeys.

By the way, Al's next book will be "Girth In The Balance," in which he will guide the self-righteous over-eater to purchase Carbohydrate Offsets as a way to deny reality.

Scientific Fact
A year ago it was a "indisputable scientific fact" we had 9 planets in our solar system. Now we do not. Perhaps that's an empty phrase?

Carbon credits
I just sponsored a third world child for $0.15/day. I figure he counts as a carbon offset for everything that I do because he doesn't have anything that burns fossil fuels (including electric generating plants).

Does this count?

0.0006% of Earth's Atmospheric Record
That is the % amount of data of earth's total climactic time frame man-only global warmists are are using to try to tell us they have PROVED their hypothesis beyond the relm of debate. Now we know why Al thinks it's OK to embellish.

95% reduction
Wow! That's a lot. And, you forgot to mention that if you shut down all those coal, diesel and natural gas power plants and then replace all cars and public transportation with electric, you aren't going to have enough electricity to recharge all those electric items. You also didn't mention that you'll have to replace most of the central heating systems in the world with electric, which is a very inefficient heating source.

So, how are we going to charge up all those electric devices. Carbon fuel is out. Solar and wind are inefficient except at the location. Hydro damages the environment. Geothermal is not readily available. All of the existing technologies combined together at optimal rates (which we're far from right now) would only cover about 30 percent of current needs -- IF we off-shored all US factories. The only source that would even come close to what we need without destroying our manufacturing capability is -- well, nuclear. By 2050, we could build a bunch, but not if the environmentalists won't let us. There's also the problem that we have to get busy destroying the economy right now so we'll be in position to save the world with our frugality in 2050, so we won't have the capability of building even one nuclear power plant, let alone hundreds. And, while we're returning to the Stone Age, China and India will be more than offsetting our energy savings, so it will all be a wash anyway.

This is not to say we shouldn't be good stewards of our planet, but rolling back all human progress for 6,000 years is NOT good stewardship. It's suicide! But, hey, I know a few elderly Inuit Eskimos who would be glad to give lessons in Stone Age survival techniques. First you kill three moose with a spear, scrape their hides and hang them over a willow frame ...

God said "oops"
He may have made everything and told us how it all ends but science has once again proven that God is wrong. Yes, I thought I would interject a little right wing Bible thumping.

God is not wrong folks and anyone who is actually reads his book (a best seller, I hear), knows instantly that AGW is a fraud. Though I knew it, I still took the time to consider the arguements for and against AGW. Just so I wouldn't seem like a Bible thumping nutjob!

Herein is another reason the AGW believers seem predominantly on the left. They can call themselves Christians just like they can call themselves patriots. Let them tell the real God when they meet him that they didn't trust him and his word. Let them say they knew better and were only trying to correct his big "oops".

I would love to be there when they foolishly say to God's face that the scientists knew better than he did. Go ahead libs. Continue to say you are Christian and that God doesn't care about unborn life because you decided that for him. Go ahead and say we don't need a president who put's Gods will above his own, or the Nation's, or the world's. That is not what God told you to do, so you must think you know better. You are trying to make your own world out of his and then to kick him to the curb.

Sorry if your actions don't make me believe you are actually Christian. I am no great example of one myself but I trust God's word and am very aware I fall short of what he desires me to be.


Turning up the Heat on Gore
AG
What Al needs to do is start living like he wants the rest of us to live. He should sell his energy monster, or better yet destroy it, and build a smaller house that uses less electricity. He is the ultimate hypocrite. Do as he says not as he does.>>


AG, Using your logic...Then George Bush should personally leading men patrolling the streets of Baghdad, right?

My compromise
I may be willing to be a carbon offset myself. I am willing to consider living in a hut on the beach of some tropical island as to offset the carbon emmissions of the person who brings me my meals and tp from the nearby hotel.

Hopefully I won't be able to hear all the spew from the people who think I'm not doing enough from my little chunck of paradise.

Record Sized Fossil Found
http://kilroyreport.townhall.com/


HASBINISTAN – June 12, 25435

In what has been hailed as the greatest archaeological find since the uncovering of the White House, an expedition from the University of Tehran has discovered the fossilized imprint of the largest carbon footprint ever located. The carbon footprint, found in a remote region of Hasbinistan that was formerly known as Carthage Tennessee, is believed to belong to the species Allagorus Globalwarmus. Professor Mahmoud Achtungitzjihad, who led the project, said of the find, “this is by far the most fascinating discovery in my career. The span of this footprint by far exceeds anything we’ve ever seen and it is so well preserved thanks to the large base of zinc deposits that cover the area.”

Prior to the Allagorus fossil, the largest carbon footprint specimen had also been located in Hasbinistan in an area east of the Carthage site known the Raleigh site. At that dig, a huge carbon footprint recorded the nesting place of the Breckus Girlus species. Together, both the Breckus Girlus and the Allagorus Globalwarmus are believed to have brought about the demise of the Western Imperialist Dynasty by consuming vast quantities of resources. "These two literally sucked the life out of this entire vast region until it eventually withered and died", Actungitzjihad said.

Mr Buck
"I'm no expert, but a cursory glance at the available science shows a clear rise in CO2 in our atmosphere - as well as temperature rises - corresponding EXACTLY with the industrilization of the world."


You are absolutely correct: you're no expert. Your next phrase is absolutely correct also - "cursory glance". If you would have stopped there, you'd have been batting 1.000. Heck, you'd have been batting 1.000 if you'd left out the phrase "as well as temperature rises".

No one disputes that the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere has risen over the past couple of centuries. However, the correlation coefficient between temperature rise and CO2 levels is virtually zero, as any graph of CO2 levels vs temperature over time will show. THIS is the inconvenient truth that the Gorebots refuse to acknowledge.

Mister Buck
Did you watch the GW Swindle. It touches on all of your points and does an especially good job regarding co2's relevance to GW.

Apparently, we reasonably concluded after looking at thousands of years of history of co2 levels and global mean temperatures on a graph - that every time the co2 levels increased, the temperature increased. Conversely, everytime the co2 levels decreased, the temperature decreased.

Only after breaking the graph down into periods of hundreds of years, instead of thousands, did it become obvious that the two lines on the graph did not match at all. The real relationship is that temperature increased first. Then HUNDREDS of years later, the co2 increased. The same happened when the earth cooled. Hundreds of years later, the co2 levels decreased. This is where the term "undisputable" would properly be used.

In very simply terms, increased co2 levels did nothing to cause temperature increases. Rather, their increase may have been caused by temperature increases. Discussing co2 level increases when talking about GW is merely chasing the little white rabbit.

Real science is rapidly getting in the way of AGW. The believer crowd has to keep saying "It's a fact" as many times as they can to keep the "debate" going. It's going to be the only arguement they have.

Al Gore
How can any of you idiots support Al Gore in any way shape or form. He lived in a grand hotel in DC while his father was BSing you and your parents. He lives in the twilight zone now. Can any of you produce evidence that he has picked s--t with the chickens as he was growing up. My brother and I have, my dad did, as has all of his family. We all got on with our lives and made something of ourselves. I could give a Tinker's Dam about the poor. But you liberal sheep believe all that the drive-by media slings your way, and you feel so good. They're not going to help you. I'm a conservative,constitutionalist, and you liberals are letting the Congress do a million times more to you than King George could have ever thought to do to the Colonist's. Would one of you please name the last time Tipper and Al, or Hillary and Bill invited some homeless person to their house for a meal? Al Gore's a liar. God created this earth, and man will never hurt it. We may kill all life on earth, but it will recover someway.

WMR

Mr Buck
Your posts tell me that you did not even glance at the opposing sites that people offered.

I look at the sites people provide and occasionally notice they misread the data.

Given that reluctance to view other opinions you probably think the CIA blew up the twin towers, killed JFK, and flooded New Orleans, but at the same time have no credible proof other than your mantra.

Minister Buck of the GW faithful
So CO2 levels dropped from the 1940's to the 1970's? There was definately a temperature drop in those 3 decades. Explain that?

Mister Buck
I've got two or three different articles on my blog about GW with links to REAL SCIENCE performed by REAL SCIENTISTS who have PhD's not a C average in Science in Harvard.

Now I don't know about YOU but I put more faith in people with legitimate credentials vice someone who flunked DIVINITY SCHOOL...TWICE and Law School next.


The earth is under 6000 years old
This earth is a young planet. God created it in 6 days and rested on the 7th.
What everybody seems to forget is that this bus ride on planet earth only lasts about 70 years for most of us. We will have to get off of this bus soon. Why all the fervor about keeping the bus in great condition and making us responsible for its operation?
This world is not my home. I'm just a passing through.
Even the most righteous environmental devotee will someday have to die and rot and go into the earth, at least the fleshly part, while their soul will ascend to face a Holy God.
Nature Worship is a lost cause.
For a good look at such, go see the film 'Apocalypto' and wax nostalgic for the good old Mother Earth Pagan Religion.

http://www.creationists.org/

http://apocalypto.movies.go.com/noflash.html

Minister Buck
Yep, just like the 10 killer hurricanes that pounded the U.S. last year.... Oh, wait a minute. More junk science anyone?


Muscat
The earth is under 6000 years old? That's even more ridiculous than the GW scam.

Guns,Buck
Gunny, thanks for the other two. A post got knocked...Buck,give me a break. Guess what...The summer is going to be really hot!!!

Buck

Yep those folks in Watertown NY really are dying from the heatwave. It was clear clear over their head in snow this winter.

Tell you what you believe in your god and I'll believe in mine.

You apparently believe that a few billion years ago, that there was a big BANG and the universe was created. That's an awful big leap of faith as well.

The Goracle....
If it was a conservative who spewed the tripe that Al Gore does, the media would be all over it with front page news. Senator James Inhofe offers Gore to take a pledge to reduce his carbon footprint to that of the average household by March of 2008. Since it is a moral, ethical, and spiritual issue, and since it effects the habitability of the entire planet, and since Gore is the one who should lead by example, do you think gore took up the Senator on this pledge? No, the Goracle refuses.

It pretty much sums it up in Goldberg's article:
Global warming is what William James called a "moral equivalent of war" that gives political officials the power to do things they could never do without a crisis.

catalina,
You said,
I am planning on selling my house, selling my car, swearing off all use of anything that requires any energy use. When you find my naked dead body having succumbed to the ravages of nature please have the decency to kick some dirt on it but notify algore of my personal sacrifice so he should not have to suffer the effects of having to turn down the heat in his pool, have to suffer from high humidity during the summer, or have to cut back on his jet setting.

Good one! I was just thinking that Al Gore would most likely claim the spot where your dead body lies as a "carbon footprint" and then he'd try to sell it!

Free-------- to agree
Americans are free--------------to agree. That is with the grand Poohbah Gore and his Nature worship cliches. And what is behind all of the propaganda?
Taxes.
Yes, haven't you heard about the carbon footprint, and I'm not speaking of Al's footprint.
As for me, I know that God's word is true, and try what they will, the environmental earth first naturopaths, will not be able to stop the Prophetic timeline of Christ our True God.
This world is a temporal stage, upon which we will act out our small parts. The stage will pass away, "just read the book of Revelation".

Prepare to meet thy God!

http://www.orthodoxphotos.com/readings/seraphim/russia/index.shtml

**Attention all GW Alarmist**
If you take Al Gore's word about GW, then you need to watch the following documentary - Global Warming Swindle. If you are truly open-minded and want all the facts, watch the documentary. If you are a close-minded liberal(which is funny because thats what you claim religious/conservative people are) then you can not watch it.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4520665474899458831&hl=en

Best part of the article....
Goldberg writes, "This explains Gore's relentless talk of "consensus," his ugly moral bullying of "deniers" and, most of all, his insistence that because there's no time left to argue, everyone should do what he says.

Isn't it interesting how the same people who think "dissent is the highest form of patriotism" when it comes to the war think that dissent when it comes to global warming is evil and troglodytic?"

Any liberals want to try and defend this? LMAO!

Black Beard
Thanks for the incredible youtube link. Although it sure did eat up a chunk of my afternoon, it was worth it.

Would anyone like to venture a guess as to what algor's paid for his speaking engagements? I recently heard $200,000/per. He's no Bill Clinton but I guess he can sure afford his carbon offsets.

oy,Lynne
I forgot about the Heidelberg Appeal that you posted the other day...I was using some freat info from Fletch's blog...That guy rocks... informative all the way!

HEY! Mister Buck
All the ones of us who have little knowledge but big mouths know that God can wash our mouth out with soap anytime he wants. YOURS TOO!

Surely you can't believe all that stuff your saying. Is it really going to get hot this summer. So big deal.

Starting in the 1930's I have seen and lived through many hot summers, and through many floods that always follows drought. Now you'd believe that wouldn't you?

On Katrina, remember what I said about God washing mouths out with soap. God decided New Orleans needed cleansing, so He used the best method of cleansing He controls - water.

Did a good job didn't He? We need to be careful with this global warming thing. God might decide to remind us that He can also freeze water.

This winter was the coldest winter in several years, and it could get worse next year.

Oh, me of little knowledge, I forgot. Global warming must have caused this cold winter.

Mr. Buck, man has worked hard trying to control the weather and it didn't, and ain't gonna happen.

Better results in weather control are gained through prayer.



A modest proposal for Boris Q
Ok - you're a big time environmental guy.

Good. Now's your chance to step up to the plate and really help the environment; it also allows you to lead by example.

When you get home tonight, kill your family. All of them: parents, siblings, spouse, kids, aunts, uncles, etc. Don't forget to kill yourself, either. You will reduce your entire bloodline's carbon footprint to zero. Plus, the impact will expand geometerically over time, since there will never be any more Boris Q's running around generating greenhouse gasses.

Come on - take one for the team. Show us your commitment to stop global warming now.

Until you and your fellow global warming acolytes take this step, you're all just frauds.

Global? Warming
The question is there global warming. The answer maybe. It seems the southern hemisphere hasn't the same tempture indicaters as the north. So the question becomes is it global or is it the natural cycling of the earth itself. Now don't get me wrong, I believe there is some warming going on, but is it because of man, all the facts aren't in. And won't be for another hundred years. That said I do believe that we need to take care of this little rock we call earth, but not to make someone tons of money through scare tactics. Conservation should be for the security of our Nation. Yes I drive a small car and use CFL's, not because I'm worried about global warming. I disagree with utility companies and big oil give us the shaft and them getting oil from countries in the middle east that would like to see us all dead. Fact is I love motorsports and its great for the economy, but if biofuels were promoted by say NASCAR using a racing type of E-85 you would have more people looking at this as my way of helping two things at once. Of course at this point if you had a bunch of greens go to a NASCAR track to protest all the burning of all that fossil fuel their would be a riot. Especially if they brought out there pro communist signs.

catalina,
I meant that Al Gore would try to sell carbon offsets, from HIS company no less, to counter the carbon footprint left by your dead body.

Uhhhh Spion
Humans are part of nature, too.

I agree with your post, but we don't want to give the enviro-wackos an opportunity to think that we are disconnected from nature, and thus the problem.

"scientific pubs"?
Have they created the perfect beer yet?

apoplectic
I'm still waiting for the Ice Age the libwads said was coming in the 70's. Then it was when the planets aligned in 1979 that we were all gonna die, etc. I'd rather the lib lemmings follow the Goreacle over a cliff and leave the rest of us alone.

Dude3344
In a battle of wits, EVERY liberal is unarmed!

The fallacy of carbon credits
Carbon credits are an abstract concept developed at Kyoto.

The idea was to charge the US for exceeding the amount of carbon emissions allotted to us by Kyoto. We would have to buy "carbon credits" from nations that were not using all of their allotment and thus would have some excess to sell.

In order for Al Gore, John Edwards, or any of these other lying pieces of sh*t to be "carbon neutral" after using 20 times the energy the rest of us use they would have to be buying real carbon credits from real people with real money in real transactions.

And these real people would have to be using less than their allotment of carbon emissions.

And since there are no established allotments this is not possible at this time. So when Gore and Edwrards tell us they are living "carbon neutral" lifestyles, they are LYING.

Also, even Al Gore doesn't claim that carbon (an element that normally exists as a solid) causes global warming. Gore, and some scientists, claim that carbon dioxide (a chemical compound that normally exists as a gas) causes global warming.

Gore and Edwards flunk chemistry even when they lie.

People in France died
..because of prohibitive energy costs imposed by enviormental taxes, thus many people could not afford air conditioners. Thanks to the envior-nuts, people died.

Katrina was a Cat 3 hurricane when it hit. That is not a unusual storm. The levees breaking killed people not the hurricane.....envior-nuts again. That's right, they stopped the Corp. of Engineers from installing flood gates which would have prevented this disaster. It seems they wanted to protect the mating habits of some kind of fish. Banning DDT....millions died of malaria. Where the envior-nuts go, death follows.

GW is no different. These idiots want to install solar panels on African huts and windmills. They are telling the Africans...NO electricy for you! Al Gore uses more electricity in one week the 80% of Ugandians use in a year! Al does NOT have solar panels on his home. Tipper "tools" around town in a suped-up Mustang. Hypocrites, indeed.

Dude 3344
You have my permission to shoot him.

Lynne
It's actually not as complicated as I made it sound.

By the time the Democrats in Congress get done writing the new law you will only be allowed to burn natural gas, plug in your appliances, or eat a Snickers bar after you've purchased the appropriate number of cc's from Al Gore's company.

You know, just like he does.

Climate Data
Check the climate data charts for your area for the past 100+ years. Interesting.
http://www.co2science.org/scripts/CO2ScienceB2C/data/ushcn/ushcn.jsp

AGW Scientific Fact?
AGW is a Science Fiction Bunko Scam.
http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewPrint.asp?Page=/Nation/archive/200703/NAT20070315b.html


Want something real to sweat about?
This is a preview of things to come all over America!
You would think the Teamsters Union would go ballistic over this!
http://www.newsmax.com/scripts/printer_friendly.pl?page=http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2007/3/18/202900.shtml

I hope the above link formats right.

Rich Liberals
"These are the sacrifices the voracious energy user Al Gore won't have to make because he can buy 'carbon credits' for his many homes and his jet-setting."

There's nothing worse than a rich liberal. It's always "do as I say" with these people yet they want to justify why they each, personally, are exempt from the rules they want to impose on everyone else.

Or they just buy their way into what they want to do, which, incidentally, isn't what they're demanding everyone else do.

The morally superior attitude they take just adds to their general repulsiveness.

Mr. Buck
Your above post proves you still have not looked at the other contrary evidence or slept through it.

To All
My understanding of the initial concept of these "carbon credits" and carbone trading is that it came from Enron. Alborey doesn't want that out in the open too much now.

How can we disagree with the "Smartest Crooks in the Room"?

Lynne
Looks like you are right again. Why bother.

You ain't seen nothing yet........
If people are alarmed at High Priest Gore's prophecy of global warming, I would suggest that for many, it will get a whole lot hotter.

Read the New Testament and see where the Ungodly will end up!

Have any of you heard the expression 'Hotter than Hell?'

there is a lake of fire, and believe me it is far more of an issue than a few ice melts in Greenland.

http://www.hisremnant.org/eby/articles/savior/lakeoffire.html#The%20Lake%20Of%20Fire

Anthropogenic Global Warming

All of these arguments on Anthropogenic Global Warming (AGW) are interesting reading but really do not contribute much to resolving the issue.
There is only one basic question to settled on AGW, and that is:
"Does CO2 cause global warming?"
All of the other pros and cons are irrelevant, if the answer is NO. The default answer is NO and there is no crisis.
If the answer is YES, than the Global Warming believers and alarmists must provide us with some factual scientific evidence OR some past historical evidence that AGW caused or led to subsequent Global Warming.
There is no such evidence. Computer models are not factual evidence.

If the crib's on fire, you don't specula
If a politician came to my houise and said my baby's crib were on fire i would check it out. I have and I noticed something. the only fire is in his religous ferver and the only smoke is what he's blowing.

Re: Koco
CO2 is certainly not a problem. I have read accounts by alarmists claiming that there is somehow a CO2 "greenhouse" above us but that is laughable; CO2 is heavier than air and settles to earth. I saw a demonstration of that fact back when I was in high school in the late 1940's; the local fire department put it on for Fire Prevention Week. The fireman set uo a sloped V-trough with lit candles and then filled a beaker from a CO2 bottle and poured it from the beaker down the trough. The candles were extinguished one by one from top to bottom. A similar experiment was described in the manuals of children's chemistry sets along with instructions on generating one's own.

Well, Mister Buck...
... Catalina did a good job debunking Chicken Little types and obviously you didn't like it.

Here is more: Harry Truman once had a beachfront house in Key West; today that house is two blocks inland. Rising sea level? I don't think so.

Global Warming is a scam and there is sometimes a problem for the Chicken Little's as to whether we are headed for warming or a deep freeze. If we get more "global warming" this spring I hope it is the powdery kind that my snow thrower can handle. This winter has been brutal enough to kill my azalea (which was shielded from wind) and I may have to replace my mimosa trees as well. Global warming, my foot.

And don't try to convince me with computer models; they are programmed by people and reflect only what was programmed into them. There are models in which a significantly warmer period was deliberately omitted from the program in order to support a pre-conceived result.
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