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Tuesday, March 11, 2008
Jon Sanders :: Townhall.com Columnist
Southern Baptists to Save the World (Not Like Matthew 28, Though)
by Jon Sanders
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And when he had opened the third and a half seal, I heard the voice of the third and a half beast say, "Get thee a load of this."

And I looked, and behold a green horse: and his name that sat on him was Warming, and gore followed with him. And power was given unto them over the climate of the earth, to heat or to freeze, to destroy with the tempest or the lack of tempest, with flood and fire or drought and ice, and with exceeding tedium.

Hallelujah! The Southern Baptists have finally found themselves an issue in which they can be praised of men!

You see, unlike those of some other denominations, the leaders of the Southern Baptists have maddeningly asserted that marriage is between a man and a woman just because what they call the Word of God says so, and whom the call the Son of God said it, too.

If that wasn't bad enough, they also refused to exempt acts of homosexuality from Biblical injunctions against sexual immorality in general.

Plus, they state outright that personal faith in Jesus Christ as Lord is the only way to salvation. As if they forget there are other religions out there!

Such stridency is just out of step with these modern times, and nonbelievers throughout America let them know how wrong they are. The idea of a Creator God setting the rules is just too old school. God needed to get with the times, and the Baptists were standing in the way. Why couldn't they just see that Jesus was a nice man who told people to pay their taxes and give to the poor (and if you vote for the right "liberal" you can do both at the same time?

Don't underestimate the effects of these secular outcries against the Southern Baptists. They found them quite upsetting. After all, didn't Jesus tell his disciples that if they played their cards right, the world would welcome them with open arms?

So it is with palpable relief that the Baptist leaders announced their fealty with their co-religionists in the global warming creed. They did so in a declaration released Monday, March 10. The declaration appears weighted according to three principles: Biblical stewardship, prudence, and caring for the poor.

The stewardship issue and caring for the poor hinge upon the climate-change problem being as bad as the regnant superstition holds. It is clear, however, that the most important philosophy expressed in the Baptists' declaration is that of prudence – which is a real shame, in that the document relies on a most imprudent definition of the term.

"It Is Prudent to Address Global Climate Change," the Baptists declare, begging the question. Their next sentence reveals that they are not ignorant of the question; they acknowledge uncertainty over "whether global warming is occurring and, if it is occurring, whether people are causing it."

Nevertheless, after a chain of logic alternatively politic and torturous, they conclude, "Humans must be proactive and take responsibility for our contributions to climate change – however great or small." (Yeah, verily – all change hot and terrible, we bad men made it all.) But they do so on the basis that this is "a position of prudence."

One would have to exhaust an entire unabridged Webster's worth of adjectives in declining relevance before one would venture to call going along with the current mass hysteria concerning climate change "prudent." Considering that research has showed that all countries doing everything according to the Kyoto Protocol 100 percent for 100 years would reduce the estimated continued warming by a small fraction of a degree Fahrenheit (see Thomas Wigley, “The Kyoto Protocol: CO2, CH4 and Climate Implications,” Geophysical Research Letters, July 1, 1998), that doing so would cause unfathomable damage to economic systems the world over, that wealth is the surest means for a society to manage a natural disaster with minimal loss of life immediately and in the recovery period, and that the science regarding man-made global warming is far from settled (indeed, more significant challenges are raised nearly every day) – prudence does not blithely walk past such things.

Southern Baptists and others looking for a prudent manifesto on addressing climate change – not to mention one that also takes into account the needs of the poor – should see the Open Letter to the Secretary-General of the United Nations of December 13, 2007, signed by 100 scientists and economists, including some members of the UN's vaunted Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC). That letter urges the UN to steer away from the quixotic pursuit of "fighting" climate change via governmental policies and advocates instead "the need to equip nations to become resilient to the full range of these natural phenomena by promoting economic growth and wealth generation."

The maxim "Look before you leap" is prudent. The panicked "Do something!" is not. And a leap of faith is Biblically prudent only when that faith is in God, not men.

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About The Author
Jon Sanders is a policy analyst and research editor at the John Locke Foundation in Raleigh, N.C.

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It was NOT an SBC declaration
Jon Sanders is wrong.

The media misrepresented a seminary student's initiative as that of the SBC because the student named the initiative, "A Southern Baptist Declaration on the Environment and Climate Change."

However, the SBC position statement passed as a body in June 2007, is vastly different and represents the official consensus statement of Southern Baptists.

The news report, "Seminary student's climate change project is not SBC's," http://www.bpnews.net/BPnews.asp?ID=27582, carries the correct information.

Here is a link the true position adopted by the Southern Baptist Convention, 2007 SBC Resolution on Global Warming, http://www.bpnews.net/BPnews.asp?ID=27583.

-- Will

Charles
"Unless you can show a theology handed down from the beginning, it is truly impossible for the Baptists to claim any direct link to the Apostles."

Historians make new discoveries all the time, so who are we to say that they'll never discovery a theology handed down from the first century? I'll admit it's highly improbable, but not impossible.

In any case, my argument was that Baptists did not begin with Roger Williams. That much has been verified beyond reasonable doubt.

Ken
I would posit that the theory is impossible to prove. Unless you can show a theology handed down from the beginning, it is truly impossible for the Baptists to claim any direct link to the Apostles. They may find a certain kinship in *some* writings of some Fathers, but I can guarantee you that whatever writing is pointed to by theorists who take this seriously, I could find quotes from the same Father, let alone other Fathers, that would be completely against aspects of Baptist theology.

I have seen a few theorists (but only a few) who tried to point to heretical groups as proof of a "longstanding tradition." The problems with such attempts at proof are numerous, of course - the fact that those heretical groups died off, the fact that those groups also held numerous other beliefs the Baptists, themselves, would reject as heretical, etc.

the sinner,

Charles

Nellie
You are speaking Gnostic heresy when you say everything material is an illusion. Christ was Incarnate physically, materially. God created the world - a material existence. We will be resurrected at the final judgment physically (though in a manner of physical existence that we do not now understand). These were all refuted quickly and totally in the late second, early third centuries - when the Gnostics, who had existed before Christianity (truly, they were simply neo-Platonists who just stole whatever verbiage they could from other religions), were exposed for the frauds they were when they called themselves Christians.

Where you get that there is no original sin I'll never understand. That is, of course, unless you are saying there is no *inherited guilt* for original sin, which is true. Inherited consequences, yes, but not guilt.

Man was *originally* made in God's *image* and likeness. We messed up the likeness through the fall. The image is merely our potential, the likeness would be that potential realized.

the sinner,

Charles

Update
Posted: March 13, 2008 12:42 am Eastern

© 2008 WorldNetDaily By Alyssa Farah

The Southern Baptist Convention wants you to know there has been no policy change on the issue of global warming.

That official statement from the denomination is meant to clarify confusion generated about the efforts of Jonathan Merritt, a 25-year-old Southern Baptist Theological Seminary student who launched a campaign from within Baptist ranks for stronger action against climate change, which he believes poses an imminent threat to mankind.

The statement titled "A Southern Baptist Declaration on the Environment and Climate Change," written by Merritt received massive media coverage – from the New York Times to the Associated Press to Reuters. It was widely portrayed as a major deviation from a more cautious stance on the controversies surrounding the seriousness of man-made catastrophic global warming.

etc...

there is a science of Christianity
which was discovered many years ago. When you read the scriptures with one major difference; ie: from the 'spiritual' perspective, you discover that everything in it contains the absolute scientific Truth about our very existance. And it is very good news.

Premise no.1. We are, in fact, spiritual
Premise no. 2. Everything material is illusion.
Premise no. 3. There is no original sin.
Premise no. 4. God created us in His own Likeness...Perfect.
Premise no.5. To understand this Truth and therefore to benefit from it, we need to acknowledge this first.

When we live materially (as if we are mortal, rather than spiritual) we deny God and therefore deny our very essence of being.

See, we prove this science every single day.

When we declare, without a doubt, that we are spiritual and the outcome of pure Love, we can heal anything.

This science is so simple. Yet we have made it so complicated.

So you misunderstand true Christianity.

Jesus proved it over and over again.

He lived and demonstrated the science of Christianity throughout his career, so that we may follow His example and do as He did.


Howie
"The Baptist movement started in colonial Rhode Island by an apostate Anglican expelled from the Puritan led American church over the doctrine of baptism. The man's name eludes me at the moment."

You're thinking of Roger Williams. He founded the first Baptist church in America (though he himself was not a Baptist very long. However, Baptist roots go back farther than that.

Some Baptists believe their roots go all the way back to the first century. Being a Baptist myself, I like to believe that, too. As a historian, though, I readily admit that such a theory is quite difficult to prove. The earliest INDISPUTABLE Baptists grew out of the English Separatist movement in the sixteen century.

reply to Jim
As you can see from most of the posts, conservatives (or at least these conservatives) simply don't believe in global wwarming. Your evidence means nothing to them, and never will. They are convinced that they are right on this issue. You shouldn't be surprised; just lower your expectations when you're dealing with conservatives.

Go to the horse's mouth please
The so called "Southern Baptist" statement that you are getting from secular news is not a true reflection of the Southern Baptist Convention statement which voiced its view on global warming last summer in a resoulution on climate change. After a number of Where as: RESOLVED: "That the messengers to the Southern Baptist Convention meeting in San Antonio, Texas June 12-13, 2007 urge Southern Baptist to proceed cautiously in the human-induced global warming debate in light of conflicting scientific research"..It goes on to say that we are charged to be good stewards of the earth resources...Go to the Southern Baptist web site and read the whole thing. It appears to be another case of the secular pro climate change press putting a story in their own words...

Tea Party at 3:13
credibly informs TH readers that the BAROMETER has been used since the 1850's to measure temperatures. Case closed! NO GLO-BULL WARMING! My nine year old grandson just informed me that THERMOMETERS measure temperature and that BAROMETERS measure atmospheric pressure. Who'd a thunk it [to borrow Tea Party's words]. Funny how some folks scream "SHAM SCIENCE" when global warming is proposed...but they can't even distinguish between the most basic scientific instruments.

Jim-Too

Seems the Baptists...
are going the way of the Methodists, and will naturally decline as that church has declined.

Howard Reed
St. Constantine did no such thing, as even the most cursory reading of the Church Fathers prior to the dawn of the 4th century shows in abundance. This view of the First Ecumenical Council is not very accurate at all.

the sinner,

Charles

Gestell
Actually, St. Iraneus didn't lay that kind of honor on the church in Rome over *every other church.* In fact, at Nicea (Canon 6), the Fathers clearly distinguished that, in certain cases, the traditional sees would have authority over their respective regions. This is exactly what St. Iraneus meant in "Against Heresies," at III, 4, 1. (There is some controversy in this, anyway, as the translation of this passage comes from only the Latin, and usually centers on III, 3, 2. The former passage is a bit clearer, and despite the Latin's translation of *convenire*, would indicate that St. Iraneus had much more of a collegial tradition in mind, such as the Apostles' Council in Acts, than a papal monarchy system).

This would also apply to the papal claims, even those as early as 100 A.D. However, there were no universal claims until several centuries later which, at various times, were abandoned and then taken up again. St. Gregory the Great, I believe, even once said that any bishop who sets himself up as the "bishop of bishops" would be a "fore-runner to the anti-Christ."

the sinner,

Charles

Say it aint so?!
Right on the heels of the new 7 deadly stupidities vomited up by the neo-catholic socialist church, we have the complete rout of the southern baptists.

Its enough to make you burn your bible.

God what a worthless religion!

RA at 6:22
contends that atmospheric CO2 is a bare 0.000385%. Enter "air composition" on your keyboard and your find and several credible internet sites which show actual CO2 percentage to be 0.030 [100 times greater] and yet the RA's of the world shout down global warming as SHAM science.

Jim-Too

Southern Baptists to Save the World
Arrogance. Heresy. Fraud. Theft. All these very
serious sins are committed by clergy who have
jumped on the "Save the Earth" bandwagon.
Arrogance: denying God's primacy over Creation.
Heresy: preaching what is NOT in God's Word.
Fraud: all liars will be cast into the lake of
fire ( THAT is the warming you should be afraid
of!)
Theft: robbing honest people of their livelihoods
and causing needless misery.
There is nothing remotely Christian about any
of this.

I'm Baffled!
Of course global warming has occurred periodically for millions of years...but mans activities can [are are] are now contributing. Greenhouse gases are not the only problem. The average temperatures in the countryside northwest of Houston are consistently 8-10 degree less than Houston metro temperatures. Why? The tail-pipe heat from hundreds of thousands of automobile, the heated exhausts from air conditioners, and tens of thousands of acres of roofs, asphalt, and concrete which absorb or reflect the suns heat Rainfall statistics for fifty years consistently show that rainfall is heavier during weekdays than on weekends [so take that weekend picnic!]. After WW-l over 19,000,000 acres of virgin central plains grass lands was plowed to grow wheat. Came the 1930's and the Dust Bowl conditions which brought utter ruin the Great Plains. Wind induced soil erosion was stupendous whereas those few areas which had not been plowed escaped with no damage whatsoever [although both were subject any contemporaneous drought conditions]. I could give scores of empirically established illustrations. We need only open our eyes to see the damaging effects of mans activities on the weather and the planet generally.

Jim-Too

What scares me...
The entire column by Jon Sanders was humor and ridicule. What really scares me is the number of people who have made comments that are clueless of the tone.

Global warming vs God
Genesis 8:22 tells us that God made a promise that while the earth remains there will always be summer and winter, cold and heat, day and night, seedtime, and harvest.
That's enough for me!!
I may have gotten the quote out of order, but it is still there, and I believe it, not Al Gore and his sham scientists, or the big wigs in Hollywood, or the big wigs in government.
Look it up!!

They Don't Speak For Baptists
When the "Last Temptation of Christ" came out, I saw a Baptist pastor, in front of his huge stone church, declare that this movie "was a theological marvel". He didn't speak for Baptists either.

Certainly we saw how stupid Baptists can be, following Huckabee and splitting the conservative vote.

This is just a fringe element who probably once were Baptists but have been blown over by the pagan earth worshiping hysteria of global warming. They don't speak for Baptists. In fact they are probably the ones being voted down at the convention.

Remember, CO2 is 0.000385% of our atmosphere. Its a trace gas that can cause nothing but plant growth.

Howie
Preach it brother!

Jesus did not start a political movement, or speak out about the horrible abuses of the Roman government. He did not offer a manifesto or a program.

He offered us Himself crucified to pay the penalty for our Sin, and Himself resurrected to give us victory over Sin in life. That's it. Everything else flows from that, whether its compassion for the poor or whatever.

Cam
Nice list you have there. Fortunately, science is not a democracy. All signs are pointing to the conclusion that the warming period has ended.

I guess Mother Nature isn't part of your "consensus".

Baptist is based on water baptising
Fellow Christian Historians,

The Baptist movement started in colonial Rhode Island by an apostate Anglican expelled from the Puritan led American church over the doctrine of baptism. The man's name eludes me at the moment.

Roman Catholicism on the other hand has held the belief that the Catholic Church was started by Christ, it's first Bishop of Rome being the Apostle Peter.

Wrong. Jesus Christ and Peter were practising Jews. Christ was a radical Jew according to the ruling Jewish elite of the day that whose teachings threatened the Laws of Moses, when in reality his message exposed the adultration of those laws by hypocritical men for political and judicial gain.

The original Christian movement started by the apostles after the death and resurrection and ascention of Christ was called 'The Way' after Christ's reference to Him being "The way the light and the truth." As pointed out by Gestell, the moniker Christian was used by the early followers of Christ in Antioch and stuck.

The Roman Catholic movement was started by the Roman Emperor Constantine, a convert to Christianity by his mother in the early 4th century. Constantine, the quintessential politician figured out a way to bring the Christian and Pagan faction together by incorporating both ideologies into the first organized Christian religion. Hence some of the pagan practice in the Christian denominational movement today.

Few people know by the word pagan means people that live in the country. These people were supestitious and accredited natural phenomina to human influence from a spiritual realm. Thus the worship of nature with human characteristics expressed by human form in the way of crafted statuary.

It is because of the coming together of the two ideologies that made Christianity so acceptable to barbarian tribes throughout Europe.

Howard Reed
Durhamville, NY

Stick to Jesus' Great Commission
Southern Baptist Convention,

Having been raised a Southern Baptist in the finest tradition of preaching Christ's word I am somewhat disillusioned that SB leaders would stept outside winning souls to promoting an international socialist led hoax.

Where are these people coming from by compromising with the world as Jesus plainly stated to the Apostle John regard the compromising church at Laodecea that he would spit from his mouth.

To much PC advocating going on with mainstream Christian denominations founded on concrete biblical precepts as far as I am concerned. Stick to what you know to be right instead of taking side path on the straight and narrow road to your eternal damnation.

Christ did not tell his teachers to take up the cause of deceifulness, which is what global warming is based on -- the fleecing of the flocks pocket books. His message was one of hope through grace that leads to eternal salvation. That is the message and anything more is apostasy.

Howard Reed
Durhamville, NY

an explanation
An explanation for the parentheses with question marks literring them:I had mistakenly thought that the Greek text I copied into my comments (which did work) would survive being posted, but alas TH remains Greekless. Too bad. I used to think conservatives favored literacy in the classical languages.

reply to Charles the Hammer
I was stating the Baptist position against Roman Catholicism. Clearly, priority should be given to the Jerusalem church; given the spread of Chrisianity around the Roman world, there can be lots of candidates for the designation of 'early Christianity." If you want Scripture, Acts 11.26 is an obvious choice, when the name "Christian" (???st?a??? )is applied to the church at Antioch. Of course the term "Catholic"
(?a???????)is used very early as well, by Ignatius in 107AD, also at Antioch.

You might also note that from about 100AD the Bishops of Rome started claiming to have the authority to settle doctrinal controversies
among Christians. By 189AD Irenaeus will claim that Rome is the center of leadership for the Christian churches on the basis of the by then traditional view of apostolic succession.

Gestell
Especially in light of what the earliest Church Fathers wrote (here I'd like to refer to Saints Ignatius, Polycarp and Clement. Sts. Ignatius and Clement, we should remember, wrote in the first century, whilst some Apostles still lived). The claim to descend directly from the earliest Christians is faulty, to be polite.

And the church in Rome, of course, may have been the first see in the West, but it certainly wasn't the first "Church."

the sinner,

Charles

Baptists and origins
Many Baptists contend that they simply are the direct descendants of the earliest Christians--and that the Roman Catholic Church is not the earliest Christian church in the Western world. This is one of those historical issues that forces a choice: either you think that the issue can be settled by historical research or not.
For really convinced Baptists, no amount of historical research will convince them they are not in fact continuous with the first followers of Christ. Claims about historical continuity are often used to support claims of authenticity and superiority, and Baptists do this so they can claim that their various doctrines and practices are really, really, real Christianity, and all other versions of Christianity are false.

If you want the historical case against the Baptist claim, here's a good place to find it, in some detail.

http://www.reformedreader.org/history/vedder/contents.htm

It won't convince a Baptist, but then there isn't much that could.

rlaTEXAS
Do you have any actual proof for the claim that Baptists, as we know them now, existed before Luther? In all the Church history I've read, I've never seen it.

And, yes, all, "global warming" is a joke - insofar as it is defined as an artificial process that stems from human activity. In reality, the earth's climate has warmed and cooled several times over its history. As we all know, nothing new. All the same, we *do* have a responsibility as stewards of God's creation, and we do have a responsibility to not be greedy and wasteful. At the same time, however, I would argue that's more on the personal scale than the governmental scale.

the sinner,

Charles

Baptists
[1] Sharon: which Words did he so mangle and misquote, please?

[2] Baptists are NOT Protestants. We were around long before Luther, or the rise of the RCC.

[3] SBC is not all that conservative - on politics or theology. Just ask an independent Baptist...

[4] Sowing discord has been a long-time, full-time position of the media.

[5] With so many people familiar with the denominational styles of the Methodists, Catholics, or Presbyterians, or the northern/eastern "Baptist" denominations, most do not realize that the SBC is not the arbiter of the beliefs and values of those attending SBC affiliated churches.


Don't take this too seriously...
With all due respect to Mr. Sanders, he has not told all the facts. If you want a more balanced treatment of this story, read the article about it on Baptist Press.

As best I understand it, one seminary student has written a paper calling on Southern Baptists to take a greater interest in environmental issues. The few Southern Baptist leaders who have endorsed his paper have done so cautiously. Besides, none of these leaders can speak for Southern Baptists as a whole. Contrary to popular belief, Southern Baptists are not in the habit of letting others do their thinking for them.

In politics, it's beliefs not religion
I am an avowed conservative. I like to network with like minded conservatives regardless of religion. I doubt evangelicals are going liberal. They have been a mainstay of conservative values. Articles like this disturb me because it implies it is okay to be religious and liberal.

It is not okay.

It is not okay to be liberal under any circumstance. I hope the evangelicals will not allow liberal nonsense to spread unchecked in their congregations. I am sure they won't.

So. Baptist Article
John, I don't know what Bible you are quoting out of but it's not the Word Of God I read!
You are misquoting it and the words of Christ and that is just plain stupid. I will never read your so called articles again! S. Stone

Globull Warming
is a crock filled with socialism excrement.
I remember the Global Freeze propaganda of the 70's. Globull Warming is about control of the peasants. Wasn't the founder of the Weather channel on recently accusing Gorebull of fraud with his carbon credit con?
I have had access to a journal going back to the 1850's, once the author rec'd a barometer he began recording his local weather..guess what
It got very very hot in some years and in some years it got very very cold..who'd a thunk it?
I read an article about southern England of 20,000 years ago that had evidence of a sub tropical climate..duh? Where were the Chicken Littles then running around yelling "the sky is falling, the sky is falling." This is about power and money.
Pastor Danny, Amen!
I should be very concerned, it's March and we are having a 33 degree heat wave here in the North. It actually got below zero for a few weeks and wonder of wonders, it snowed and snowed and snowed. And come June it's gonna get warm and it might rain, July it'll get hot, and August it will be hotter.. I think God has it all figured out, we have to remember Algorebull
flunked God back in his college days.



global warming
The governments excuse for shutting down our factories and shipping all the business overseas. "See world, You can't blame the US for global warming!"

Skewed interpretation
The opinion in this article is a little skewed, but I think that's typical of most media. Absolute truth and fact is not of the utmost priority, as is demonstrated here.

Southern Baptists absolutely believe that Jesus Christ is the savior and believe in the Bible.

That doesn't mean they expect all of America to be Christians. However, they would like to see the principles and beliefs that made America great continued as opposed to flying hither, thither and yon.

Believe me, the ACLU and their ilk didn't make this country great. They've been trying to destroy us from within and they've been doing a pretty fair job. The U.S.'s basic moral precepts shouldn't be compromised.

Wayne, a well reasoned argument!
If I may state one point another way...

"All atmospheric CO2 from all sources is less than (three hundredths) 0.03 of the total of all greenhouse gases."

That number is a little hard to verify due to the fact that the percentage of the atmosphere comprised of water vapor varies from about 4% down to almost 0%. It can be stated, however that CO2 constitutes only 380 parts per million of the atmosphere and that is less than four one hundredths of ONE PERCENT! (.00038)

From this little bit of CO2 grow all the forests and crops in the world. We would do better if we were able to INCREASE CO2 up to about 500 parts per million (and it still wouldn't trigger "global warming"). The effect of CO2 as a greenhouse gas is almost negligable, whereas the effect of clouds is HUGE. For proof of this, just ask anyone who lives in an inland, northern city how much the winter-time temperature will drop over night on a clear night vs a cloudy night.

Statements about global warming...
This is a great example of why religious groups should avoid making comments, on subjects like global warming. By the time they finish the painfully slow decision making process, the entire issue has scientifically changed. Now all the scientists say the temperatures in the past year around the world have dropped enough to erase all the previous claims of global warming, in the last century. If the Southern Baptists really work at it, in a couple years can make a statement about that. :)

It could be as simple as the Pope is against man made global warming, so we have to be for it. :)

Greenhouse Gases: Problem or Not?
A review of the facts is in order:

Atmospheric CO2 is not the only, not even the primary, greenhouse gas. Water vapor is the major component (95%).

All atmospheric CO2 from all sources is less than (three hundredths) 0.03 of the total of all greenhouse gases.

All man-made atmospheric CO2 is less than (nine ten thousandths) 0.0009 of all greenhouse gases. (In the entire world)

All U.S. produced atmospheric CO2 is less than (three hundred twenty-four millionths) 0.000324 of all greenhouse gases. (In the whole United States)

The Kyoto Protocol requires the U.S. to reduce our atmospheric CO2 production by (four hundred eighty-six ten millionths) 0.0000486 of all greenhouse gases.

This U.S. CO2 reduction is equivalent to reducing a full-to-the-brim standard U.S. bathtub by ¾ of a teaspoon. This is a ratio of 1 to 20,576.

Do we want to raise all U.S. prices by 32%, raise unemployment by 300%, and give up U.S. sovereignty under international treaties in order to remove ¾ teaspoon of water from a full bathtub?

Thank you, Jon
Climate change must be addressed on the basis of science and reasoned public policy, and not as a theological question. The Southern Baptist leaders who signed this vacuous and logically chaotic statement have put themselves in the embarrassing position of Catholic Bishops saying whether God wants the US to build a new bomber ("no"), or the UCC national office on whether Christ is endorsing a big increase in the minimum wage ("yes").

As to the merits of the issue, it would be fantastically imprudent to reorganize the world economy around a raft of government carbon dictates on a basis of confused, shifting, and manifestly imperfect knowledge. Unless we have become infinitely vain in our own self-regard, that is.

Thank you, Jon
Climate change must be addressed on the basis of science and reasoned public policy, and not as a theological question. The Southern Baptist leaders who signed this vacuous and logically chaotic statement have put themselves in the embarrassing position of Catholic Bishops saying whether God wants the US to build a new bomber ("no"), or the UCC national office on whether Christ is endorsing a big increase in the minimum wage ("yes").

As to the merits of the issue, it would be fantastically imprudent to reorganize the world economy around a raft of government carbon dictates on a basis of confused, shifting, and manifestly imperfect knowledge. Unless we have become infinitely vain in our own self-regard, that is.

Dont Tread On Me
"If Baptists are going to weigh in on this at all, they need to be concerned to educate themselves & get it right, not just go along with the "world's" predetermined dogma & agenda."

Unfortunatly, the SBC is a NON-PROPHET organization. They are just about as authoritative on AGW as they are on many of their biblical interpretations but at least with the Bible they have something they can lean on even if they do tend to twist meanings to fit their preconceived notions. With respect to "global warming", they are just the blind leading the blind (and that's biblical too!)

Hitch
It boggles the mind how the GW deniers can mention the research funding scientists might get from government as a conflict of interest while completely ignoring the vast amounts of money at stake to the fossil fuel industries. The WHO (nor anyone else to my knowledge) as associated 77,000 deaths worldwide to darkness. This SBC group deserves credit for some consistency on the Culture of Life.

sing - Nearly half of Christ's ministry involved condemning materialism. A strong argument can be made that materialism has driven global warming. Fighting materialism is a major part of reversing GW. The hoax is in denying GW, not acknowledging it. The info is all there.

The GW deniers are getting closer and closer to the Flat Earth margins.

They don't speak for me
"Our cautious response to these issues in the face of mounting evidence may be seen by the world as uncaring, reckless and ill-informed."

That's the problem. If you start worrying about what "the world" will think, you're heading for trouble.

Gestell, not all Southern Baptists believe the Earth is only 10,000 years old. You can't assume that any more than you can assume that we all agree with this silly declaration.

Personally, I think things started going downhill when praise songs started replacing hymns in our services. Some of them, to be fair, are beautiful and have meaningful lyrics; many, though, are just mindless drivel. Singing meaningless lyrics five or ten times in a row doesn't decrease the inanity.

I am chagrined and embarrassed
One thing that has set the SBC apart from other mainstream denominations over the years is a determined adherence to Biblical truths that are eternal. Once in awhile, some group of Southern Baptists tries to impress "the world" by emphasizing the world's concerns instead of God's concerns. Usually, after a discussion, such nonsense is defeated or marginalized by the SBC as a whole (have you heard some of the stuff Jimmy Carter says?).

This time is worrisome, because a few well known SBC leaders have signed on. It is embarrassing that this GW hoax is being legitimized by supposedly scholarly people in the name of stewardship. We will see what comes of it within the SBC as a whole, but do not get overly excited about it yet.

zzzzzzzzzz

Cam getting lonely
So, the UN, the US, the vatican believes in global warmism. Is there anyone not directly involved in government and therefore having a vested interest in scaremongering on board with this. I suppose you will now rattle off some scientists battling for government funds that have signed onto this.

Has anyone noticed that it gets dark every so often. I believe we need to combat global darkness before it gets out of control and it stays dark all the time. More light would allow longer growing seasons and more productivity. Maybe I can catch a ride on Gore's jet of death to spread the word.

Environmental Polluters must confess...
I don't know what the following has to do with religion but I guess any church leader can say whatever they think they can get away with to their congregation. Foxnews.com also reported yesterday that Southern Baptist leaders are going to try to get their followers involved in the righteous fight against "global warming"!

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,336311,00.html

Fox also reported yesterday that the Vatican has added "environmental polluters" to the growing list of people who commit "mortal" sins that if unrepented of will consign the sinner to an eternity in hell.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,336330,00.html

Founded on junk science or not that's debatable, but you've got to give Al Gore some credit. In addition to inventing the internet he started something else that's REALLY BIG!

But I'd better rush out and find a priest, I chose plastic bags instead of paper last time I shopped...

http://mittromney.townhall.com

Talking out of school
This is not the Southern Baptist Convention itself, but a small group of activists & officals taking it upon themselves without any particular mandate to speak on behalf of the SBC and to chide the Southern Baptists for not kowtowing to the new secular dogma. The pop media, as always, focuses on this SBC officer talking "out of school" & this rump dissident body within the Baptist community, pretending that it does or should speak for all Southern Baptists.

Baptists are a congregational denomination. No organization larger than the individual congregation, such as the SBC, has authority to dictate doctrine or to discipline pastors or church officials for disagreeing with them. Still less do individual officers of the SBC such as the president or unofficial subgroups no matter how pretty their Web site.

One of the groups' quotes says "Our cautious response [i.e. the official 2007 SBC statement on "climate change"] to these issues in the face of mounting evidence may be seen by the world as uncaring, reckless and ill-informed." Note that phrese "SEEN BY THE WORLD." What does that say about the priorities of these dissidents in the limelight?

The 2007 statement was in fact quite reasonable; it acknowledged both that the alleged science is questionable, & that the high human costs of "doing something" makes it imperative we get it right instead of using "climate change" dogma as an open-ended excuse to grow government. Empowerment of a world totalitarian dictatorship could be seriously detrimental to freedom of worship & sharing the Gospel.

If Baptists are going to weigh in on this at all, they need to be concerned to educate themselves & get it right, not just go along with the "world's" predetermined dogma & agenda.

getting lonely
Those who believe this period of GW is manmade and poses a threat include:

The IPCC and UN
The National Academy of Science
The National Geographic
The Bush Administration
The '08 Republican nominee
The Vatican

Now the SBC is moving that way. Didn't they all hear that the conference last weekend had "turned the tide"? But THers still have that judge in England.

SBC is confused
The proposal for the SBC to formulate a policy on global warming shows the lack of quality control in this religious group. The view of Christianity and the Bible that is held by the SBC provides sufficient basis for this group to avoid discussing global warming except to denounce the claim that it is real.

Scientific view of global warming make sense given the belief that there have been numerous lengthy cycles of global climate change--ice ages, warming periods, etc. Given that the earth is 10,000 years old or less--a belief required by a literal understanding of the Bible--there simply hasn't been enough time for these events; therefore, they never happened, and the scientists who claim they have happened are either (a) simply mistaken or (b) lying to us.

Conservative Christians such as the members of SBC should be the first to reject any theory of global warming, as they reject evolution and many other scientific theories. The fact that some of these folks have been drinking liberal Kool-Aid on this issue is disheartening to those of us who enjoy the displays of dogma emanating from this religious group.

In the world not of the world...
...except when it is to your political advantage.

Never understood how someone who believes that the world and everything in it was created in 6 days could possibly believe that man could cause or even contribute to global warming or it's reversal in any measurable or effective way.

Global Warming
I am a Southern Baptist Pastor, and I am concerned about global warming. But, not from a political point. According to the word of God, the earth is going to experience "global warming" as it will be destroyed by the heat of God's fiery wrath. 2 Peter 3:10 "But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up." That's the only global warming anyone should be concerned about. Maybe all this other global warming and droughts are preparing the earth for the aforementioned event. Therefore, I will continue to preach the message, "Turn or burn!" That's essentially what Jesus was preaching when He said "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. and "Unless you repent, you shall all likewise perish." That's why that word "perish" is in John 3:16. REPENT, before the global warming falls.

SBC Hypocrites
If they would spend more time practicing what they preach and do it on Sunday, instead of sticking there nose into the state of politics they might not come across as Hypocrites/Neocons.There words never seem to match there actions and they seem to think they can Judge everything but themselfs, maybe if they spent more time letting there actions speaking louder than there words they might come across as being something more than bible thumping neocons.Let Religon go back to being something we do as a community on Sunday and practice our actions during the week.Our Founding Fathers new something when they created the seperation of Church and State.The SBC do not belong making political Policy let alone trying to address the global warming issue.

Global Warming Proposed Initiative
It is a sad day when the SBC gets involved with any issue such as "global climate change". They need to stick with the main message which is the gospel of Jesus Christ.

The whole global climate change issue is nothing more than another attempt to consolidate power in the hands of the few by promoting a false world crisis, which only powerful govenment control can solve.

Many comments posted here talk about using your brain to really think through the issue. Very interesting, since such an activity would surely lead you to realize there is no crisis. Real evidence is available to anyone who cares to find it, and it all says that the climate has been changing systematically since anyone cared to notice. By far, most of the known changes occurred long before the modern era when so called industrialization has been labeled as the culprit.

"Organized" Religion ?
Where do I begin??? Of course the SBC members are human and therefore, not infallible. They can be duped and manipulated like everyone else. But not this time. The SBC has made a gambit to appear politically correct while attempting (attempting, mind you) to leave room for those opposed to the climate change hysteria to say "Oh, they didn't go too far, did they?" The SBC like many other religious organizations have morphed into a bureaucracy. Individual churches and pastors can be a good fit for one's beliefs and values. But large governing bodies are not the Church. The SBC should focus on supporting and nurturing individual congregations, not on making policy.

Ramble on... stop.

Not SBC
This is not a declaration of the Southern Baptist Convention, it is a proposal/petition for the SBC to make a declaration.

I am prayerful that the body(SBC) would never make such declaration.

This is a proposal by the Southern Baptist Environment and Climate Initiative.

The link is broken, but the text is explainitory: "Seminary student's climate change project is not SBC's"

an old saying?
I think there is some saying about if you lie about something enough it eventually becomes true...sorry for torturing the saying, but...point being, even Christians are gullible to the "lie" becoming truth to them one day as evidenced by the declaration the SBC came out with.

I find it disappointing to know that those who really believe in the greatness of God could diminish Him so much over one big lie.

We are to be good stewards of the earth, but that was true 200 yrs ago, or 500 yrs ago, not just true for today. Good stewardship means more than curbing CO2 emissions. It's about controlling animal populations, littering, conserving, etc.

The SBC should be ashamed of itself. If I didn't know better, the declaration appears to be a ploy to attract more people which means more money.


Baptists are human, too
Just like anyone else they can allow themselves to turn off their brains and succumb to the latest pseudo-scientific hoax.

That significant elements of organized religion have signed onto this just represents human nature: some ministers can see how they can benefit from this as well. I have a difficult time seeing how a protestant denomination could bring itself to traffic in "carbon indulgences", but never underestimate the flexibility of human beings.

Religions do not own morality.
But surely Athiests have equally strong views on the causes of Global warming and climate change so most of these views are not specifically religious, they are general views. It is also quite possible to believe in a Supreme Being, a God that sees into your mind and gives guidance every day, without being attached to any of the organised religions with their doctrines, some of which do seem very peculiar and appear to be neither moral nor ethical.
It is amazing in this day and age that when it comes to religion, educated men and women appear to have lost the power to think and question. There is now overwhelming evidence that the modern Bible is a construct, that Genesis derived from the Epic of Gilgamesh and the Unema Elish.There is no historical evidence for the Apostolic succession and the Catholic Church admits to removing and inserting passages from the original Bibles(Codex Siniaticus and Codex Vaticanus)to correct "false" doctrine in the New Testament. That is not to say there is no good moral teaching in scripture but Aesop was a moralist and there was no actual dog and no actual manger.However there is an actual Globe and there is actual warming, but evidence of the causes has not yet been strong enough to convince everyone. Does this mean that Baptists have made their view a matter of Faith? Do they believe that what scientists have written is literally true? Scientists may be exactly right but we should always question and think about what is written because it may not be literally true.

Baptists are human, too
Just like anyone else they can allow themselves to turn off their brains and succumb to the latest pseudo-scientific hoax.

Today's "Climate Change" was yesterday's "Global Warming", once the advocates figured out that people understood the fragility of the original argument. Fortunately "Climate Change" is one of those world-class blinding flashes of the obvious: of course climate changes, and often for reasons that don't involve evil humans.

I recall being lectured in a geology class almost 40 years ago about how civilization was going to come to a screeching halt because we were going to run out of most of the economically useful metals, oil, etc. The wise one making the statements was projecting 1990 as the likely onset of the collapse. At the same time, people were trying to scare us out of our wits with "population bombs" -- note that a goodly bit of the industrialized world now has birth rates below replacement.

The amusing thing about all of these imagined crises is that the solution was always the same: strengthen central governments, give up individual liberty, and submit to a regimen of regulation of all aspects of our personal lives.

Beware the universal solution in search of a compelling problem. People who want to frighten the public with the latest insoluble problem or crisis have a pathological need to order others around or lack the imagination to seek a solution that doesn't involve their elevation to emperor.
The absence of any humility in these people is telling.

That significant elements of organized religion have signed onto this just represents human nature: some ministers can see how they can benefit from this as well. I have a difficult time seeing how Baptists could bring themselves to traffic in "carbon indulgences", but never underestimate the flexibility of human beings.

Once again...
Southern Baptists strain at a gnat and swallow a camel. I am a Southern Baptist and tired of apologizing for the leadership's political correctness. Why don't they get concerned over something that matters, like divorce? The breakdown of the family is the root of many of society's ills, but the SBs would rather protest Disney and Proctor and Gamble than deal with the elephant in their own living room. Once at my former church, my drama team wanted to do a sketch about a man who was trying to justify leaving his wife, but our pastor told us he didn't want to get into that. Too many pulpits are filled by self-aggrandizing glory-seekers rather than true men of God. Just goes to show you that again, you have to evaluate individual churches and pastors, regardless of affiliation.

First Do No Harm
Strict religionists seem to need an enemy to fight even if it is just such a vague, unproven threat as the Global Warming "monster."

The paradox is that in agressively fighting GW they could do enormous harm to people in underdeveloped countries, which need energy to raise living standards. So Christians who are bound to be good Samaritans in pursuing one goal, lowering CO2, could find themselves actually abetting the impoverishment of those most in need of help--contradicting a centuries-old Biblical injunction to aid the poor.


Oh Jon
I see you are still addled in your head.
Write an article about your brain is dead, at least you could write on something with knowledge for once.
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