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Friday, June 22, 2007
Jon Sanders :: Townhall.com Columnist
That Wacky Fourteen Percent
by Jon Sanders
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Poll
Will the Dems' health care Christmas Present to America be an improvement or detriment to our health care system?


Americans' confidence in Congress is at a historic low point, according to results of a Gallup poll released Thursday. Only 14 percent of Americans surveyed said they had a "great deal" or "quite a lot" of confidence in Congress.

That is the lowest confidence level recorded in the history of Gallup polling on that institution, going back to 1973. The previous low was 18 percent in 1991, 1993 and 1994. Those happen to be the last years before the present that the Democrats controlled both chambers – and in 1991 there was also a Republican named George Bush in the White House.

Nevertheless, someone surveying the current political landscape could very well be surprised by that 14 percent. It seems far too high. Where, he might wonder, did Gallup find any Americans actually confident in Congress? One assumes they're not all lobbyists. Has Gallup penetrated the vaunted "shadows" wherein all those "undocumented Americans" (to use the euphemism of the year) are squirreled away awaiting the latest amnesty thaw?

No, that's not it. In this great country, you can find a handful of people who hold onto just about any fatuous belief, be it that Elvis is alive, lucky numbers are real, or Congress is trustworthy. What's really interesting is how the 14 percent who admit to confidence in Congress (perhaps via displaced Santa Clausism) compare in numbers with holders of other beliefs. Some examples:

* Thirty percent of Americans believe in UFOs, agreeing that "some of the unidentified flying objects that are reported are really space vehicles from other civilizations," according to a 2001 survey by the National Science Foundation (NSF).

* Thirty-one percent of Americans believe that astrology — which holds that the alignment of celestial bodies actually affects people's destinies — is at least "sort of scientific." Another nine percent said it was "very scientific" (NSF, 2001).

* About 19 percent of Americans believe that Elvis is either alive or that there is a chance he is still alive (Fox News/Opinion Dynamics poll, 2002).

* About 22 percent of Americans believe that President Bush knew of the 9/11 attacks in advance (Rasmussen, 2007).

* Sixteen percent (and Rosie O'Donnell) believe that explosives brought down the World Trade Center (Scripps Howard/Ohio University, 2006).

* About 17 percent believe that "Creatures such as Bigfoot and the Loch Ness Monster will one day be discovered by science" (Baylor Religion Survey, 2005).

* Twenty-two percent of Americans believed in five or more of the following 10 pseudoscientific beliefs: "extrasensory perception (ESP), that houses can be haunted, ghosts/spirits of dead people can come back in certain places/situations, telepathy/communication between minds without using traditional senses, clairvoyance/the power of the mind to know the past and predict the future, astrology/that the position of the stars and planets affect people's lives, that people can communicate mentally with someone who has died, witches, reincarnation/the rebirth of the soul in a new body after death, and channeling/allowing a "spirit-being" to temporarily assume control of a body" (NSF 2001).

Even those handfuls are greater than the proportion of Americans with confidence in Congress – which still doesn't make the latter any less perplexing. One suspects that, if given an option stated explicitly in Fox's Elvis poll, the great majority would have agreed: "Those people are crazy."

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About The Author
Jon Sanders is a policy analyst and research editor at the John Locke Foundation in Raleigh, N.C.

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Coincidence?
Congress polls at an all time low along with the president.

The only explanation for why they (congress and Bush) aren't polling lower is because somewhere between 14-26% of Americans obviously don't watch TV or listen to the radio.

Let's get free DirecTV for everyone and watch the numbers go even lower.

Glad I saved this for last.
More people believe in UFOs, astrology and ghosts than have confidence in the US Congress.

It's sad, pathetic and funny.

But don't be too down on those numbers: They could change IF Congress defeats scamnesty, builds the fence and enforces the laws and COnstitution of the United States.

Hey, Dangerous Dave...
..try this...it may be right up yer ally...


http://mudgeon.townhall.com/g/7aba95d4-fbbb-4e7e-aa46-791c69b39464

It's a one party system
Gee, why would Americans dislike an organization which is enriching itself, spending hundreds of billions (that they don't have)on pet projects only to receive kickbacks (lovingly referred to as "contributions")

Why is it we have bridges to nowhere, tollroads and ports soon to be controlled by foreign corporations, and jack-booted thugs going into Texas bars looking for people who have been, are you ready for this, drinking alcohol.

Sounds like that ungrateful populace is figuring us out. What we need to do is add another 150 million voters so that our kids will be electable, one day. Sure, they'll have to run as Democrats, but, in reality, we've had a one party system since Bush 41 . That's how the game is played, and the larger the population, the more diverse it becomes, and the easier it is to win an election solely on the basis of money and demographics marketing. Who needs issues? Now that I think about it, who needs constituents?

So why do we let these turkeys stay
Time to remove them- recall all senators who lean toward the immigration monstrosity, as Arizona is now acting to accomplish. Only with a total turnover of senators will we see a Senate that does what we the people want, rather than those who bribe them.

And yes, the "favorable" percentage could rise, if they build the barriers tomorrow and dump the current arrogant attitudes. Do we think they will listen to us? Certainly not, unless you act to remove them from office. So do it NOW!

WHERE'S THE FENCE???


John Sanders Doesn't know much
The buildings on 9/11 were taken down by controlled demolition. Hundreds of physics professors agree. Notice how John Sanders doesn't mention that 3 buildings collapsed on 9/11. Only 2 buildings were hit by planes.
The government set-up 9/11 as a reason to invade the Middle East and to pass the Patriot Act (already written prior to 9/11) to take control of Americans freedoms. Americans are being lied to BIG TIME! For anyone that doubts this, ask yourself: Why is Osama BinLaden not wanted for the 9/11 attacks? How did the 3rd building fall down and why did the leaseholder (larry Silverstein, on national television, admit that they took it down with controlled demolition?
http://www.fight4truth.com/911truth.htm
http://www.wtc7.net
The more debunking of the truth that is attempted, the more the truth is revealed!

These data are misleading
When polls ask Americans what they think of "Congress," they express a low opinion of it. But if you asked each voter what he or she thinks of their OWN congressman and senators, they would have a much higher opinion. That's why so many Congressmen get re-elected, even in landslide years like 1994.

Congress is ineffective precisely BECAUSE it represents all these different constituencies. There is less and less room for consensus, especially on the divisive social issues of our day. So a liberal voter may be happy with HIS own congressman, and a conservative voter may be happy with HER own congressman, but neither voter will be happy with the fact that the Congress as a whole reflects their inability to reach a consensus on anything. If you put the liberal voter and the conservative voter in a room and asked them to work out the issue personally, they would have just as much trouble doing it.

Take Congress out of the loop entirely, and have a summit meeting of the National Organization for Women representing pro-choice feminists, and Eagle Forum representing pro-life activists, and see how much progress they make in drafting a common statement.

TruthMan
Time to lay off the weed, dude.

Justa Thought Here
Those numbers could change if aliens in a UFO land on the White House lawn at noon this Sunday, too.

I see about an equal chance of THAT happening as Congress seriously addressing illegal immigration.


Voted for what?
Why is it that the moonbats always think that people expressing dissatisfaction with the way things are going in Iraq WANT TO CUT AND RUN? A large number of us who are dissatisfied with the way it is going want us to go in there and blow the doors off the place and start hanging al-qaida in the public square. We don't want withdrawal -- we want Kick Butt and Take Names FIGHTING.

P.S. I would like to remind those who don't believe in ESP and aliens that you can't prove a negative. I am as hard headed a realist as anybody could ever want to face, but I don't think the fact that you haven't found them yet means nobody else ever will. Thomas Jefferson did not believe in meteorites. That didn't mean meteorites did not exist.

tanabear, TruthMan
tanabear; Just when I start to agree with you (on the border issues) you inevitably charge off on this tangent. "Greatest unsolved murder mystery?" Only in the sense that we can't 'dobe-wall those responsible. Why? News flash- they died in the process of committing the crime.

Get a grip.

TruthMan & tanabear;

You do know that it was really Elvis who shot JFK, don't you?

(That's sarcasm, folks.)

And if your response is going to consist of seas of little blue links punctuated by BusHitler rhetoric, don't bother. I've heard it all before, and I'm even more tired of that than I am of the "Peace and Love From Our Space Brothers" UFO contactee crowd.

Get out of fantasyland and join the real world sometime before you die.

clear ether!

eon

AudiR10
YES!

Terrorists are simply serial killers wrapped in the Muslim flag.

They deserve to be summarily executed.

That's my "dissatisfaction" with the War against Islamofascism.

EARMARKS
McHenry pushes $129K earmark for X-mas tree

This is why CONGRESS approval rating is down to 14%. America has lost trust that either side has any integrity left. Lawmakers say one thing a do another!

Politico-Rep. Patrick McHenry (R-N.C.) was all over the House floor last week, bashing Appropriations Committee Chairman David Obey (D-Wis.) and other Democratic leaders for not doing enough to disclose member earmarks early in the appropriations process, as Democrats had promised when they took over the House in January. Republicans eventually got Democrats to back down and release the earmark requests — read “pork” — earlier than Obey had planned, so McHenry got what he wanted. And now McHenry will be forced to defend his $129,000 earmark, via the Small Business Administration, for Christmas trees.

Actually, the $129K is to go to the The Mitchell County Development Foundation, “a nonprofit organization dedicated to creating jobs and strengthening the educational system, as well as promoting tourism in Mitchell County.”

READ MORE
http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/mchenry-pushes-129k-earmark-for-x-mas-tree

The great 9-11 conspiracy
tanabear and truthlessman would love to have us think that government took down the WTC so to start a war in the Middle East and then have everyone stay silent about it? I would like to have seen that happen since most in Government (especially those in Congress) couldn't find their A** if it was a hole in the ground. ROFLMAO!!!!!

One solution
term limits

I will cite two examples
validating the 14% as high.

At the conclusion of a vote on an amendment to the Energy bill today, the majority leader, Senator Reid took the floor and announced he had important information...I assumed he was ready to remark on the Energy legislation....no, Senator Reid announced that Senator Lautenberg, D-NJ vote on the last amendment made Senator Lautenberg the holder of a title: Most votes in the US Senate of any US Senator from New Jersey, ever...Reid went on and on for ten minutes praising the wonderful, incomparable Senator Lautenberg as if the Energy legislation was completed. If this wasn't disgusting enough, after another amendment vote, Senator Reid again took the floor and indicated he had a major announcement? Energy legislation? Nope, this time he announced that Senator Robert Byrd of West Virginia had just recorded his 18,000th vote in the US Senate.......another ten minute rambling, gushing, mumbling account of how wonderful Senator Byrd represented his home State of West Virginia...Reid didn't mention Senator Byrd's past membership as a Ku Klux Klan leader...

UntruthfulMan
Physicists may know orbital mechanics, cosmology, and quantum theory, but civil engineers and architects are more well versed in how buildings rise and fall. Having watched implosive demolitions and documentaries explaining how it's done, I find the suggestion that this was the mechanism that felled the towers to have negative credibility, i.e. anyine who believes it is so full of s**t their eyes are brown.

Pogo
The war and immigration are the issues today. In two years, the baby boomers begin to retire and the costs of medicare, medicaid, the drug entitlement act, and social security will begin ratcheting upward ever more rapidly. None of this is resolved today, and it's not going to be resolved tomorrow.

The war is not resolved because we don't have the forces to crush the resistance, the children of the conservatives and the liberals refuse to enlist-which is why the Army had to waive the felonies on 11% of the the enlistees in the last 12 months, and we refuse to implement a draft to provide the forces we need to fight the war we talk about. The issue here is not cut and run, it is simply that we have no reserves, and if we cannot get the Iraqi's to demonstrate that they want a united government, then our forces will be ground down and we will have no choice save to change our current strategy. The forces we have are on their third and fourth tours, their tours have been extended to 15 months in Iraq and only 9 months at home, the Army psychiatrists are telling the generals that these forces need one month out of the front lines for each three months in combat, the generals refuse because they cannot accomplish their mission if they do this, and a recent Pentagon poll indicated that 1/2 the units in country have low or poor morale.

Immigration is not resolved because the elites of both parties want the Hispanic vote, and neither are willing to secure our borders unless they also accept the illegals currently in the country.

The social war we will soon fight is not resolved because people want their butter, and we have no idea what will happen to guns when it becomes increasingly evident that we can't have both.

Congress is the recipient of this ire, yet in most of these cases the problem is us - not the Congress. The majority of the public wants neat and clean little wars that their children do not have to fight, and want the government to pay for their retirements.

And, needless to say, we don't want to pay the taxes for those retirements, but we still want them paid for.

Give it a few years. Nothing will change.



CROOK TO CROOKS
This is what happens when you vote in crooks to replace crooks. The only problem with having a third party is that it would probably have as low a rating as the current partys. We no that LIBS will not vote for third party so we would still have the same problem as we have today.
I am still waiting for my promised (100 DAY PLAN) from my fellow DEM NANCY P. We as a country better wake up before we become a SOCIALIST COUBTRY. pretty soon there will be more foreigners in our country than AMERICAN people. As JR EARL PITTS says WAKE UP AMERICA.

14%
Sounds high to me. It should be 0% for the president and senate. It's hard to find anything good to say about a bunch of people who surrendered their country to 20 million mexicans.

truthman
we know you believe the physics professors. What do the structural engineers say? According to mathematics you can peel an orange without breaking it's skin but that don't make it so

Moonbat exterminator
sorry for the redundency. I passed over your comments. I wonder where all these conspiracy "authorities" will now get the great evidence now that the second smartest women in the universe, Rosie, has lost her platform

truthman and tananbear
simply illustrate dramatically what the article was saying about the "crazies" and why there are 14% who applaud the work of the congress.

Hmmm...
Let's see Dems and the MSM spent six years calling Bush dumb. It took Bush six whole years to get low approval ratings. It took the Dems all of six months to get the lowest approval ratings in the history of this country! And their numbers are much lower than Bush's! So who's the dumb one?

Why is a controlled demolition,
of any additional building(s) such anathema?

After the Twin Towers were destroyed by the hi-jacked planes all the surroundings were evacuated. Much talk addressed the possible hidden damages to the other buildings and more might be brought down a controlled manner.

I see no plot nor conspiracy in controlled demolition.

I am obviously missing something here.


Truthman and tanabear
If you don't start exhibiting signs of intelligence you need to leave. Study after study has proven you wrong. Even the architect that designed those buildings has said your wrong. I'm starting to question your sanity. These paranoid delusional displays of persecution need medication or a straight jacket.

LOLO!!!
obviously the Dems are better at ONE thing!!!!

tanabear, et al: Cognitive dissonance
Cognitive dissonance: perception of incompatibility between two cognitions, which can be defined as any element of knowledge , including attitude, emotion, belief, or behavior (in lay men's terms, the uncomfortable tension that comes from holding two conflicting thoughts at the same time).

Sufferers of Bush Derangement Syndrome & associated mental defectives: how can the most ostensibly incompetent & verbally incontinent President (at least according to the leftist MSM) in the history of the U.S. accomplish the most far reaching conspiracy in the history of the U.S.? This includes staging the 9/11 attacks, deceiving the bi-partisan 9/11-commission & manipulating prominent members of the Democrat party (that so viscerally hates him) into voting in support of the Iraqi invasion. Two of your three leading presidential candidates were Senators that were easily deceived by GW. Which is it? Incompetent or evil genius? The more you “international socialists” spin your unsubstantiated conspiracy theories the more you sound like your national socialist forebears when they began their efforts to malign Jewry, i.e., inferior, sub-human but able to conceive & maintain a global cabal.

Heat doesn't melt steel
Rosie said so, so that's that. End of liberal discussion. The towers obviously came down some other way. I wonder how Rosie thinks things are made of steel. Does she think it's carved?

SI of steel
The structural integrity of steel can be severely compromised when subjected to extremely high temperatures and a tremendous amount of weight and stress. Quit using Rosie O'Donnell as your physics guru.

Audi
>A large number of us who are dissatisfied
Speak for yourself. Im dissatified, but..

>and start hanging al-qaida in the public square.
Al Queda is only a small part of the problem. The real problem is the Iraqis and their government. I strongly suspect they are playing us, and we are just wasting out time there. If we DO kill off all the Al Queda, we would still have to deal with the Iraqis, and the Iranians.

Discretion is the better part of valor.

Scariest of Polls
51% of Americans believe what they hear from the Mainstream Media

Lower
Both Congress and Bush deserve to be lower for trying to cram the Amnesty Bill down the country.

Bush is trying to go lower than Nixon and Truman and may leave a legacy of the lowest approval ratings in history. That is sad as he really is much better than Carter. At least Carter was not dumb enough to attack his own base.

Let's do the math
The latest poll shows 14% approve of the job the Democrat-led Congress is doing.

Another recent poll shows that 35% of Democrats (including TruthMan apparently) believe the Bush Administration perpetrated 9/11.

Roughly 40% of the country identifies themselves as Democrats.

So, doing the math, 35% (that believe 9/11 was perped by Bush) of the 40% (that are Democrats) comes to (drum roll please) 14%. The exact percent that approve of what the Dems are doing in Congress.

This is NOT a coincidence.

Physicists?
TruthMan is referring to the wrong experts. Physicists deal with molecular construction, not building construction.

Thousands of structural engineers have reviewed the explanation of how the towers fell and have no problem with it.

Martini, the Construction Manager who built the towers, who had his office in the towers, and who died on 9/11 trying to prevent them from collapsing and trying to save as many lives as possible when he could have saved himself by fleeing the building, made a cell phone call requesting a structural engineer come to view the physical damage to the structure inside the building caused by the plane crash. Martini was concerned that the physical damage alone, without the contribution of heat, could collpse the tower he was in.

But then, what value is the word of the guy who built the place when it is stacked up against 100's of experts in a completely different field of science, and when it is opposed by the droolings of a political class whose hatred for Bush makes them believe he not only blew the place up, but intentionally caused a hurricane that would only destroy "black" neighborhoods by refusing to support a treaty (Kyoto) that even the previous administration voted against when it was being drafted?

Demosthenes has it exactly right. The Bush-haters need to get their story straight and then stick with it. Bush must either be an incompetent dolt or an evil genius. It is not possible for him to be both.

Vote them out
I dont know where i read this so I dont know who to credit but it is a favorite of mine.

POLITICIANS ARE LIKE DIAPERS - THEY NEED TO BE CHANGED OFTEN AND FOR THE SAME REASONS.

Vote them all out they are too comfortable and out of touch. How do they all seem to end up rich?

What seems to be important is getting the right office, being appointed to the right comittee, and backing the right people. NOT DOING RIGHT for the people.

Many have made good points
People do tend to think that their elected officials are doing a fine, it's just everybody else who is messing it up. I believe both of my senators are pathetic (I live in Illinois), and my rep is not a lot better and he is a Republican. As a nation, we have to stop looking at the government as some kind of Santa Claus.

As for Allen, thanks for your self-righteous rant. You accuse others of bigotry while you start out with some of the most bigoted nonsense I have ever read here...and that is saying something! Way to get people on your side. You must have memorized "How to Win Friends and Influence People."

You can call the immigration legislation anything you would like, but if it looks like amnesty and walks like amnesty, then by golly it must be amnesty. How is this legislation going to be any different than what we got in 1986? Can you guarantee me that not one single illegal will collect welfare benefits? We are not anti-immigrant, we are anti-illegal alien.

One last thing Allen, your Irish comparison is a dog that won't hunt. My Irish forebears came here LEGALLY and worked their butts off, became AMERICAN (my family which hails from all parts of Europe has never hyphenated our ethnicity....we are simply Americans) and never got one dime from the government.

You can disagree with people Allen without being sanctimonious.

wiseone
I double checked your math. .35 x .40 = .14

Not a coincidence, I agree

I happen to be related by marriage( my mil)who believes all the conspiracy crap. She also thinks Bill Clinton was the greatest president we ever had. She votes democrat across the board (her religion). She also has personally seen an alien (not from Mexico but another planet) She believes in esp, ghosts, ad infinitum. I need to ask her if she was recently polled.


Hysteria vs. Deception
tanabear writes, "A poll taken in September of 2003 showed that 70% of Americans believed that Saddam was personally involved in the 911 attacks....This is an example of mass hysteria."

No, this is an example of deliberate deception by the Bush administration.

Hmmm?
Controlled demolition?

To make that work they had to be able to hide all wires from maintenance people that would have had to run throughout the building or have thousands of remote control devices attached to each support and have them trigger from top down in a manner that would appear to originate from the crash site.

The other alternative would be to have all maintenance people in on the "conspiracy" in both buildings.

Then you have to get the planes hijacked and the hijackers to agree to target only the buildings set to be destroyed. You have to also hope that the fate of the plane passengers brought down before "target," doesn't occur.

Yes, there were lots of mistakes made and maybe even some were counting on an "event" of some magnitude that would create a national furor but, to believe this was all planned is truly "tinfoil" land.

And I am one who does believe in "Central Banking," Trilateral commission, Bilderberg, CFR agendas. I do believe in the "economic merger" of North America and other conspiracy theories.

The problem is, we don't need a "planned" event like this for the agendas of those people to advance. All they have to do is wait for the natural occurrences of nature and demented people to happen.

Like sheep being led to a slaughter, we let each new crisis take away more of this nation's sovereignty and our freedoms and do it willingly (or at least the majority does).

Allen indeed silly & unfounded
Allen writes, "AudiR10: Believs that Muslims have a flag(we are lucky they dont, then they might have uniforms and then we couldnt call prisoners of war enemy combatants. Would hate to see us have to honor treaties we signed like the geneva conventions)"

First, it was DavidMac, not AudiR10, who posted, "Terrorists are simply serial killers wrapped in the Muslim flag. They deserve to be summarily executed."

Second, you DO understand the concept of "metaphor," don't you?

Third, as a factual point, there are not one but several Islamic flags; they include those with the crescent and star symbols and those with the Shahadah or Allah Hu Akbar statements.

Fourth, on one point you are indeed correct -- the "combatants" do NOT wear uniforms and, thus, could receive exactly the treatment DavidMac suggests under the laws of war. Gitmo is a symbol of American grace and mercy, not the opposite.

Allen also writes, "The illigals turn themselves in.( now we know who and where they are) They pay a fine ( as punnishment for breaking the law.. $5k which is more than these people would make a year in their home countries)"

Just out of curiosity: what enticement can you possibly offer that would induce an illegal alien to voluntarily pay more than a year's salary to continue doing what they are already doing anyway?

old man - did you read the
rest of my post????????

Or - were you addressing someone else altogether?

Do we get what we ask for?
The Members of Congress are our representatives. We voted them in. So the approval rating of 14% reflects not only a failure of Congress but a failure on our, the voters', part.

If the approval rating is still in the teens six months after the next election who are we going to blame? Are we going to hold both Congress and ourselves accontable for this mess?

And I fear Congress reflects our society, in too many ways. Greed, corruption, contention, the inability to work towards a common goal, selfishness, dishonesty, naievete and denial.

Possibilities
(1) The actual figures are in millage (14 millage = 1.4%)
(2) They actually meant ppm*** rather than percentage (you can guess, I like this one better).


***parts-per-million, a common methodology to measure contaminations.

Republican Ploy
The REPS wernt stupid they new if the DEMS got controll this would happen. This is why the REPS didnt show up to vote. My MY how smart they are.
Only problem now is for us the PEOPLES. Damned if we do and Damned if we dont. Now that Bush has become a DEM under the new amnesty Programm
how many REPS will run from him?

Muslims in uniform
Allen points out that if muslims fought in uniform we wouldn't be able to call them "enemy combatants".

If muslim combatants wore uniforms we would be able to identify them as "enemy soldiers" and we would have the right to hold them in prisoner-of-war camps without trial and without communication with the outside world for the duration of the war.

They also would not be able to hide in mosques and other civilian buildings or use their civilian garb to disguise their status as combabtants.

Allen's argument is the same, tired, discredited double standard that the left has been trying since the start of the war in Aghanistan; they want the US to abide by Geneva when it comes to treatment of prisoners but they don't want to hold terrorists accountable for complying with those same requirements.

Allen and others of this ilk, get this. Geneva describes combatants in civilian garb as "spies" and/or "saboteurs" and allows summary execution of them. That means the decision to shoot tham can be made on the spot where they are captured by any buck private in our army.

And while you're at it, get this as well. Geneva defines combatants who use non-combatants as human shields, fire upon hospitals and/or other sanctuaries, or who fire from sanctuaries, as war criminals who are subject not only to summary execution but also to trial for war crimes during or upon conclusion of the conflict.

Any "enemy combatant" at Gitmo or Abu Ghraib whose worst ordeal has been to be forced to wear underwear on his head is getting a far better deal than he desreves according to the very Geneva Convention you cite. Every one of them could have been summarily executed and many of them could have been tried for war crimes first.

Liberals are so used to cherry-picking the laws and codes of human conduct that they condemn our military for giving these creeps a huge break without thinking, and with out even researching the "treaty" (which al Qaeda and Iran and Syria are NOT signed onto) they are using for their criticism.

Marie
No, I wasn't addressing your comment. It was just a general comment on the lack of need to cause the destruction of the buildings. With or without the collapse, the loss of life was enough and the attack serious enough to have the same result.

Those who are driving this nation into the ground through bad government, don't need to do anything more than use any crisis that comes along to further their agenda. And at the rate crisis comes along, they don't even need to create any more.

sorry Old Man
after I posted to you - it dawned on me! thx

Dottie
"You can disagree with people Allen without being sanctimonious."

No he can't.

That's why I skip over his nonsensical jabberings. If he had a legitimate point, it's totally lost in the vitriol. Kind of like a poor-man's Keith Olberman-- a really really poor man.

You can't fix dumb
Maybe the answer is fairly simple: Based on IQ distribution within the population, that 14% has to be certifiably stupid.

Allen
allen writes: Friday, June, 22, 2007 10:37 AM
More silly and unfounded beliefs
over 70% of americans believe in angels
more than that think that a carpenter tacked to a tree 2000 years ago absolves them of their pisss poor behavior just becasue they believe. Most Americans have a common imaginary friend.
----
I'm sure you've felt hurt, insulted (patronized, pitied, whatever), or coerced to believe by some Christian(s) somewhere. I get it that you're an atheist and you think only a fool would believe in an obvious myth. I'm sorry if they hurt you. Know that I value your humanity and I hope you have peace with whatever you believe.

I don't think it's necessary to insult or patronize the readers here. You do what you want, of course, but the level of discourse is not raised by insults.
-----
Most vehement opponents to the immegration compromise do not know what amnesty means (too many were children left behind) , so today , I am going to help you out:
AMNESTY:
1) a period during which offenders are exempt from punishment
2) pardon: a warrant granting release from punishment for an offense
3) the formal act of liberating someone
4) grant a pardon to (a group of people)

The bill does none of those. It requires the following: The illigals turn themselves in.( now we know who and where they are) They pay a fine ( as punnishment for breaking the law.. $5k which is more than these people would make a year in their home countries)
After paying the fine ( their punnishment for breaking the law) they are put on a track to becomming citizens, or legal aliens ( where we know who they are , and where they are).
-----
The points that most people who find fault with immigration bill make is that legitimizing the status of illegal immigrants 1)encourages the behavior, 2)isn't fair to legal immigrants, and 3) will only exacerbate and entrench the problems associated with the influx of 12-20M low skill, low income workers. I see a lot of agreement about one thing here: plug the hole in the boat, before we decide how to bail it out. The biggest complaint I have with the bill is the complaint I have with many bills -- there are already laws enough to handle this problem -- it's not necessary or better than what we have. If the congree wants to do something, it should be applying pressure to the president (friendly chats, speeches from the floor, threatening impeachment, whatever works) to prompt him to enforce the existing laws with funding already in place. If funding is insufficient, vote more funding.
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specific to this article
Justa Thought Here: believes that congress needs to start enforcing laws and the constitution. Fun fact: The executive branch is reponsible for enforcement, and the head of our executive branch routinely issuues signing statements on laws he disagrees with, that essentially tell America, he has no plan on enforcement, or that him and his buddies are exempt from the laws. The vice president is pulling similar shinannigans right now.
----
You're right, of course, the executive has the responsibilities and powers as you describe. Perhaps Justa Thought is ignorant (as you seem to think) or perhaps he/she didn't articulate what he/she meant. I've seen other comments and Justa seems pretty level-headed and I'll give him/her the benefit of the doubt. As above, congress should exert pressure on the president. Passing legislation may be one way to accomplish this, I suppose.
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Old Cracker( How appropriate, dont hide the bigotry, embrace it) believes we have surrendered the country to 20 Million Beaners( he said mexicans, but we know what he meant). I am willing to bet, 140 years ago he would think we had surrentdered to the Irish. In reality , we have probably surrendered more of America to evangelicals.( evil little people who want to force their imaginary friends on others)
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Your anger at "evangelicals" comes off as pretty intense. That statement is a real non-sequitor. Do you question whether evangelicals should have the right to vote their conscience, support their chosen candidates and agendas, and generally work to shape their country into a place hospitable to their beliefs and values (presuming of course that the effort is within the bounds of the Constitution)? I would argue that illegal immigrants have NO such right, as they are not citizens.

BTW, most "evangelicals" don't want to force anyone to believe in Jesus/God -- they would rejoice if you did believe, but mostly their political action is motivated as I have described above. You may disagree with what they envision for the country, in the same way that they disagree with public schools normalizing and forcing acceptance of behavior that they believe to be sinful, and the same way that most of us would disagree with a society governed by Sharia law. They are acting politically as any citizen is entitled to do.
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AudiR10: Believs that Muslims have a flag(we are lucky they dont, then they might have uniforms and then we couldnt call prisoners of war enemy combatants. Would hate to see us have to honor treaties we signed like the geneva conventions)
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This was already responded to well by DocNoleCat, but I'll throw in that, as I understand it, the conventions apply only to other signatory nations' forces, so the Muslims would need to sign up, as well as getting uniforms and a flag.
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Me, I belive we dont pay teachers well enough to attract people who will keep America from turning into a melting pot of morons.
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Government monopoly of schools is the problem. There's PLENTY of money in the system, though you're right that public education doesn't attract the best and brightest. However, good educational outcomes (strong knowledge base, critical thinking skills, strong fundamental and advanced language and math skills, etc.) are the products of well structured programs which require little more than competent guides (i.e. a teacher doesn't have to be brilliant, he/she just needs to have the same competencies as the outcome target. For hundreds of years this was accomplished without widespread formal schooling or public education.
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I belive Americans are getting dumber by the minute. We dont understand our history, or have an ability to learn from our mistakes. our govenment is full of bought and paid for politicians on both side of the isle, and judging by the crop of candidates we have running for office things are not going to be much better.
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I agree. Well said.
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I belive my prediction that fred thompson will be the next president is not based on policy or legislative record (I predicted he would be president someday back in the 90's) but because, as an actor, he has always played roles that show leadership, intellgence and charachter. He has never been the bad guy, but the guy you want to turn to. Given the stupidity and ignorance of our electorate,people are going to vote for the guy they know on TV, and after all, our politicians are just playing a part to get a job.
----
I'm afraid you may be right. I want Thompson (or whoever makes it to the office) to turn back the continual extra-constitutional actions of Congress and the executive (including any social-conservative intrusions into personal behavior, BTW). I doubt it will happen. I think the perception that nothing we do makes a difference is a cause of the low quality of candidates and the general apathy of the populace, AND the fact that only 14% believe Congress is doing well.

DocNoleCat
Thank you for educating Allen regarding metaphors. I get so used to a higher level of intelligence here at TH.com that I sometimes forget there are a few posters here that need help with the big words.

tanabear
..."Nevertheless, 911 remains the greatest unsolved murder mystery in world history."

Are you kidding?

tanabar
"marie writes, "I see no plot nor conspiracy in controlled demolition."

If there were demolition charges in either WTC1,2 or 7 this would imply complicity in the 911 attacks. WTC7 looks exactly like a controlled demolition. The most likely reason is because that is what it is."

oh NO you don't - no demo in WTC1&2 - more fun for you that way.

As to number 7 - it might have been to big for its foundation - AND if it was brought down on purpose, maybe JUST MAYBE that was the safest outcome.

You forgot...
....those that believe the Goracle's statement that "climate change is the biggest crisis ever faced by mankind." Even UFO's make more sense!

tanabear, OMFG!!!!! LOLOLOLOLOL!!
Tanabear's little diatribe on "who funded 9/11" really got me laughing, and laughing hard. I simply couldn't believe what I was reading.

She wrote: "(quoting the 9/11 Commission) "To date, the U.S. government has not been able to determine the origin of the money used for the 9/11 attacks. Ultimately the question is of little practical significance."

Really! So the attitude of the 911 Commission is "we don't know and we don't care." Good attitude regarding the death of almost 3,000 Americans." (end of tanabear's quote)

Un. Freaking. Believable.

tanabear, do you suppose the folks who supplied the funds for the 9/11 conspirators filed IRS 1040s in the US, with Schedule A "charitable contributions" listing "Flying Lessons"????????

What the 9/11 Commission is saying, sweetie, is that there's no good way to track who put the $$ into the (foreign) bank accounts from which the conspirators drew their resources.

You should also note that since 9/11, the US government, in conjunction with other governments around the world (who "hate us" now that we've invaded Iraq, right? NOT.) has frozen hundreds of millions of dollars in assets controlled by known terrorist groups. That's how much we DON'T care.

I have to say, the "truthers" have provided some marvelous entertainment during a period when there are a lot of things to be morose about. Thank you, tanabear.

Has anybody but me noticed...
...that the idiots who used to post here, calling us conservatives "27 percenters", have been strangely silent since the dismal performance of the 110th Congress has become evident?

Playtime is over...
We Americans no longer have (and really never had) the luxury of sending people off to DC and counting on them to resist the corrupting forces of being in power.

Every American should consider policing the government their part-time job. We elect/hire these representatives, but we also have to supervise them, just like an entry-level employee who will do something stupid or dishonest if left to their own devices.

If we expect to keep our jobs as the bosses of the political order in this country, we're going to have to do our jobs as the supervisors of these flunkies. We should no sooner let them work unsupervised as we should leave an acne-faced teenager alone in a store with a key to the cash vault; if we make it a habit, the kid will clean out the vault sooner or later.

If we want to leave them unsupervised, we need to work harder to hire better, more trustworthy people that are worthy of working independently.

If we want to blame someone for a consistently terrible workforce, look no further than the people who hire them...us.

marie
I, like you, at first found it believable that WTC 7 was demolished deliberately...

...until I learned what it takes to demolish a building deliberately, and what it looks like when it falls.

It takes MONTHS of preparation. It takes MILES of wires. It takes careful planning, moving partitions, drilling I-beams, cutting, supporting, transport of dangerous substances, etc.

It is not something that could conceivably be done by guys dressed like exterminators over the weekend. It's not something that could be hidden while people are there working in the building. It's CERTAINLY not something that you can decide on at 9 AM in the morning, and have in place by noon.

Moreover, when a building is demolished properly, all pieces of the building fall into the building's footprint. In the case of WTC 7, parts of the building were thrown several blocks.

If you read the preliminary NIST report on WTC 7, you'll see a photograph from 9/11 showing an enormous chunk missing from the southwest corner of WTC, about 10 stories high. That was caused by debris from WTC 1 & 2. There was also a portion of the south face of the building "scooped out", probably also caused by debris, about 5 stories high. There were dozens of fires inside the building, and extensive structural damage.

WTC 7 was not demolished intentionally.

Check out http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/WTC%20Part%20IIC%20-%20WTC%207%20Collapse%20Final.pdf

I say the confidence
is at an all time low because nobody (rep or dem) can hope to vote on someone who will keep their word. Eight years in the military now, and a love for history, i never thought id feel so much discontent with our government. I think everyone of the major players for the next election is liar, that goes for R or D. All of them will trade your rights to expand their voter base. Its gotten ridiculous.

Eon get a clue!
9-11 was an inside job and 22% of Americans believe it and its growing. But these polls dont show how many foreigners believe it. What do you think will happen when these truths of 9-11 inside job gets out more and gets more popular? Well bear the brunt of it at the front lines..Not any of the conspiritors. I want to see polls about this from foreigners. Then you will see what popular belief is.

I am appaled by some of these posts
It is evident to me now that the repubs and demos have seen how effective blogs can be as there putting people on here to sputter out disbelief of valid points that have been proved like the inside 9-11 conspiracy. There are a few here trying to defend the gov and make it sound like everyone that posts something not as popular as some things is crazy and on dope. Thanks all you Rep and dem trying to gain a foot hold. We still wont back down and your poll results will still suffer a$%$oles.

Stormy
Thats a huge claim. I wont say that i completely disagree, but i don't see it. I have seen the "evidence", or at least as it is available to the public, and its not concrete. You can make a conspiracy out of anything, that is why people love tabloids.

Eben, Listen
What you fail to realise is that, yes we will be taxed financally by the Boomers retiring but over the course of most of their retirement if the immigration reform passes we will be out 2.5 trillion dollars in benifits to illegals. Now how about stoping this immigration sham and using those benifits to pay the deserved American Babyboomers who really deserve it? You ever think about that? Then we wouldn't have to be so taxed to pay out the deserved benifits.

Im done here!
Seems most here are idiots and are political plants cause I have never heard in Townhall blogs so many disbeliver on this many ideas. Dems and rep can plant all the people they want to spready propaganda but we dont buy it. And I cant continue to read blogs from ignorant paid people to come in and slam things. Go to hel# and when you have to get chipped to buy or sell and or die I hope you chose to take it so when the final battle comes you take the lowest part in the hottest part of hell. Happy Bar-B-Que. Peace out traitors!

Wrong Again
You can talk about UFO's and Elvis all you want in regards to 911. However, the truth is that the New World Order does exist. It's even been publicly announced by the Clintons and HW Bush and you can see the video footage here.
http://www.fight4truth.com/thenewworldorder.htm

Maybe it's Bill, Hilary, and George that you should be mad at, not me...

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