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Monday, February 25, 2008
Johnnie B. Byrd :: Townhall.com Columnist
Obama's Fiction and the Reality of Globalization
by Johnnie B. Byrd
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Was the Copenhagen Global Warming Summit Walk-Out a Win for the U.S.?


The President should have visited Cairo this week – Cairo, Illinois that is.

A new Gallup poll confirms America’s “surging pessimism” about the job market coupled with an ongoing decline in consumer confidence. Strikingly, one in four Americans surveyed were worried that they or their spouses would lose their job in the next twelve months.

Yet another Gallup poll released this week finds that President Bush’s approval ratings remain consistently low across the entire range of domestic and foreign policy issues, with the glaring exception that the President’s approval ratings on the economy have plunged from 41 percent a year ago, to 35 percent in August of 2007, to a mere 27 percent today.

This “sharp deterioration” in the economic perceptions of Americans means one thing in this election year: It’s the Economy Stupid!

Howl at the moon if you like, but perception is becoming reality, my friends. That is, in the words of Anthony J. D’Angelo, “Reality doesn't bite, rather our perception of reality bites.”

And bite it will if Republicans ignore American perceptions. It is time to listen. After all, voters don’t care what we know; they only want to know we care. It may be trite, but it is the truth. It is always the truth at the ballot box. Bush can now ignore it, but McCain does so at his peril.

As Joshua Kurlantzick recently noted in his article entitled “Globalize This” published in the New Republic, “In the past, politicians sometimes were able to ignore middling support for free trade … But in an ever-tighter American political scene--one in which many voters increasingly blame trade for the insecurity of the modern workplace … no one can afford to lose votes.”

Now, let’s go back to Cairo, Illinois. Surely Obama has been there on the ground preaching “hope” in a town that has been decimated by free trade and globalization. You better believe that Obama has a hopeful platitude for displaced workers.

So, as many Americans are questioning the underlying premise that globalization is good for them, the task of educating the American public and letting them “know we care” falls squarely in the lap of the incumbent political party, especially as Hillary and Obama pander to organized labor.

As stated recently by U.S. Trade Representative Susan C. Schwab, “The forces of economic retrenchment and isolationism are rising on the winds of dubious economics and popular myths.” “No duh!” as my kids used to say.

How do we expect the average Joe from Cairo to understand that he benefits by shutting down the local factories that employed several hundred folks in his hometown, replacing them with about 30 new higher paying jobs in the ethanol plant to be built in Cairo?

Can the Republicans get by with saying, “Just get used to globalization”? I don’t think so.

The positive reality of globalization is obviously lost on folks in Cairo. Cato Institute scholar Daniel Griswold says it this way:

Many Americans worry about the impact of trade on jobs, wages, and manufacturing. Like technology, trade can dislocate workers and disrupt industries. But trade also delivers lower prices and more variety for millions of American families, makes U.S. companies more competitive, and opens markets abroad for U.S. exports. Trade has not caused U.S. manufacturing to shrink but rather to move up the value chain to produce more sophisticated products. Americans enjoy more freedom, prosperity, and influence in the world as we engage fully in the global economy….

As the presumptive Republican nominee, McCain inherits the task of advocating for free markets. He needs an optimistic message for the future. Sure, his expressed plans for retaining and assisting displaced workers through an overhaul of the unemployment compensation system tied to job training at community colleges are thoughtful – a message worthy of taking to Cairo.

So, on the economic front, as Tom Clancy said, “The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense.” I suggest the Straight Talk Express hit the road to Cairo and make sense of the reality of globalization for the American voter before Obama makes sense of his fiction for them.

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About The Author

Johnnie Byrd is a lawyer and host of “Johnnie Byrd’s Weekend” heard on WGUL-AM 860 in Tampa Bay, FL.
 
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Don't try in Cairo ...
It is a waste of time to try and "convince" the hundreds of unemployed residents of Cario that trade is good because the fact is it wasn't good for them. But it was good for thousands of workers and households somewhere and that is where McCain should go.

Get the votes of the winners of globalization and lose the votes of the buggywhip makers. Its called the market and to act like the losers in the marketplace shouldn't have lost is complete BS.

If you must, explain to them how they got hit by globalization and help them to be the winners the next time around.


for jeffc
jeffc writes: "It is a waste of time to try and "convince" the hundreds of unemployed residents of Cario that trade is good because the fact is it wasn't good for them. But it was good for thousands of workers and households somewhere and that is where McCain should go."

Unfortunately, the states that tend to benefit from globalization are coastal states because they trade with our overseas trading partners.

And most coastal states are Blue States. McCain will have difficulty winning them on other issues.

For example, I live in Massachusetts. Massachusetts high-tech industries depend on exports overseas, and if anything have gained jobs from free trade. But Massachusetts will never vote for McCain.

The Rust Belt states like Ohio and Michigan are the swing states in any election. And they've gotten killed by globalization. The auto industry in Michigan has nearly collapsed due to foreign competition.


Two Towns
I remember a particular issue of the Chicago Tribune a couple of years ago. I don't think they did this on purpose---the stories weren't just two parts of one big story---but they featured two stories on the same day about the effect of jobs on a local economy.

One was about a town in India where the economy was looking rosey because of American computer and telemarketing jobs that had flooded there. Everybody was doing better economically than they ever had before and local business was booming.

The other story was about a town in some southern state, I think one of the Carolinas, where the mills had closed and the mill workers were without jobs (the mill jobs, of course, having gone to Asia). Local business was in the toilet and everybody was sitting around depressed; young people saw nowhere to go but Iraq.

Globalization may be fine economic theory, but what it means to Americans here at home is not so fine. And apart from losing us jobs, it brings in merchandise that is a lot of ****. I now read the fine print on every package of frozen fish because Asian fish farms are shown in the media to be filthy: I buy only US-grown or wild-caught seafood. Thank God I don't buy toys so I don't have that to worry about. The latest is that our so-called safe pharmaceuticals (eg don't import from Canada as drugs might not be safe and ours are) are made with ingredients from uninspected chemical plants God-knows-where; so much for our drugs being safe.

I love to travel, I speak three languages, I have lived abroad, I am the champion of immigrants, and I have never been an isolationist. But I do not like this craze for globalization. I think it hurts us.

Cairo is a ghetto...

globalism is good for us?
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/PhyllisSchlafly/2008/02/ 25/congress_contemplates_giving_cash_to_foreigners

The above article is just one aspect of globalism. Don't ignore the whole program which includes giving away our national sovreignty. (Which they consider to be an immature concept.)

The idea IS to bring America down and to kill the middle class

We are doing better?

"The median household income has risen from $36,847 in 1967 to $48,201 in 2006, according to U.S. Census Bureau inflation-adjusted data."

In 1969 my mom bought a house for 15K. She sold it for 350K 10 years ago (20X as much). It is probably worth 450K now.

Globalism is part of the "new world order" (one world gov). The new America, a part of the NAU will be a greatly reduced country and that is the idea.

I am sick of the morons trying to sell "free trade" which is no such thing. Instead it is VAT, devalued currency, etc. Now Canada, experiencing some of the pain we have had to deal with, says they are going to peg their dollar at 90cents to our dollar. This is FREE trade!!!

BTW Lilly, Obama is their stooge. He is endorsed by Brezinski.

So what's the solution?
NONE!!

What is the point
of this article? I couldn't stand to finish it and that is rare. A bunch of meaningless polling of unemployed people hanging around the house who haven't yet gone to cell phones only who wish to spread their misery with a minimum wage kid or illegal on the phone asking them questions they couldn't begin to comprehend.

The number of people who think they may lose a job in the next twelve months is larger then when? And how many actually lost them in the last twelve months that thought they were. How many think UFOs visited them sometime in their life. I bet a good many.

We may as well howl at the moon. The liberals do and they outnumber us. Their perception will be negative regarding everything while a republican president sits in the oval office because they consider it a throne and will always be mad when one of their own is not sitting on it.

Haven't you guys figured that out yet? Becoming more like them to try to win elections is what has the base so mad. The doom and gloom cyle is exactly inverse of the electoral cycle. And usually inversely related to reality as well.


A question for the protectionists
If preventing the movement of products, services, or capital across national borders would increase our standard of living then why wouldn't you advocate the same protections across state lines? If it is possible to draw a line around our country and keep our economy self contained wouldn't the same benefits be derived by drawing the line smaller? Around states. Prevent companies from relocating jobs to another state. If you want them to stay there forever, simply pass a law that they cannot close down. They cannot build a plant and employ people in Texas because they started in Michigan and should be required to only employ people in Michigan. Doesn't it get ridiculous when taken to its logical end?

The ignorant masses are only concerned about globalization because politicians find it convenient for them to be concerned. It is simply a natural extension of the capitalist principle our founders bestowed on us. It will lift the world out of poverty if people will simply let it. Stop worrying about your job and become educated enough to do whatever you want.


Senator Obama has visited Cairo
The first time I met Senator Obama was in Cairo during his Senate primary race. He also talked about Cairo on MTV's Rock the Vote.

He has been to Cairo at least twice since he has been a U.S. Senator.

President Clinton and Vice-President Gore stopped here for a rally in 1996 on their bus trip after the Convention.

Presidents Grant, Taft and T. Roosevelt have also visited while in office.

Cairo has problems, but it is hardly a ghetto. The problems started long before globalization and are much more complicated than that.

The Democrat Presidential nominee will get a substantial majority of the votes from Cairo. The only thing that would change that is if Senator McCain could get the FCC to close down the Cairo Airport, as it is blocking a substantial industrial project.

Obama will solve ALL problems!
Never mind the problem -whether it's the stronghold lobbysts have in capital hill, the inner city crime issues, joblessness in america, race relations, jihadists who want to kill americans and wipe israel off the face of the earth, or any other problem. Obama is the messiah who will make everything okay. I am still waiting to hear how he will SPECIFICALLY solve all these problems and take us in the new and better direction. In the meantime, like another blogger said "the sun shines on t.v.".

The economy
It is unfortunate so many know so little about a fairly easy to understand subject like economics. In the first place, it is not taught in public schools. In the second place the national media has been pounding the notion that the economy is in the toilet for the last year. After a while people believe it and it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.
As to globalization, what exactly are we talking about? Broadening the market place in which we can sell our products, but that's not the problem. The problem is places like Cairo, and Detroit, and Youngstown and the like, who have seen factories and businesses move out of their towns. This is a fair complaint, though this is where the understanding of economics begins to break down; when you get around to asking the question why are they leaving. The obvious answer for anyone who is honestly seeking the truth is over-taxation, over-regulation, illegal immigration and unions. When a company realizes it cannot sustain growth in a given area because of these factors, they either move or go out of business. However, instead of trying to understand this it is much easier to chalk it up to greedy business tycoons who seek nothing more than profit, as if profit motive is to be reviled. The lesson here is that when you make it difficult for businesses and industries to thrive they will leave, one way or the other.

I CALLED
Obambi an empty-suit when the clown tossed his turbin into the ring.

Check out today's Anti-Liberal Zone for a REAL examination of one of his speeches (kinda like The Goreacle's "I invented the internet speech!")

Also, Obambi hangs out with far-left terrorists.

ONLY on the Anti-Liberal Zone. (Click on my handle or BOOKMARK:

http://noliberalspin.blogtownhall.com/

We take NO libs prisoner there.

Obama
Either B.O. or the Hilldawg will only exacerbate the problem and will then blame the very people their policies would damage the most. Both of them are socialists, plain and simple. Socialism doesn't work for a variety of reasons but chief among them is a reality that liberal democrats simply will never understand: you can not force production. It can't be done. If it could the Soviet Union would still be around. So when Hillarity or ObamaNation start penalizing companies and the companies either move or shut down, it will be easier to blame private greed rather than to honestly analyze what the problem is. Truth be told, if you want to expand productivity you cultivate an environment in which businesses are able to consistently produce PROFIT. They will then achieve and produce more because incentive is introduced, and the posibility of added benefit will be motivation for people and businesses to produce more, because it will be worth the investment of time and captital. This really is not very difficult to understand, but class warfare is a lot easier.

I heard
the terrorists may no longer endorse hussein obama because he has denied his islamic "religion".
How shameful can he be!

Hank Reardon
You are so on target...auto manufacturing is leaving because the Unions priced them out of a job. And so called evil profit by industry are the thing, the only thing, which create more jobs.

Winners and losers
Any trade treaty is going to have winners and losers. If we shut down or limit trade then there will be fewer products at Walmart and they will be more expensive. However Lilly does have a point our FDA standards are far superior than those in most 3rd world countries where imports are made therefore they will be more risky to use or heven forbid eat.

Can't connect the dots?
Let me point them out for you.
NAFTA, CAFTA and other free trade agreements are contingent on the buying public in america having money to purchase all the new and cheaper products. But if you take away the jobs and opportunity for new jobs by opening the borders to millions of illegals, then the american workders have no jobs. You can cure that with new jobs for unskilled workers in new industries but only if you can protect their right as american citizens to have first claim on them over illegals. So if you are for free trade, you better be for securing the borders or your little house of cards will come tumbling down.

McCain
McCain may not be a socialist, but I must question his economic prowress. After all, he is a big global warming freak, and in the real world anyone paying attention can see that the whole global warming phenominon is a socialist hoax. So if he can be so wrong about that, can any of us be confident he understands and embraces the free market principles which can reverse the economic difficulties we seem to be incurring? I understand he's better than B.O. or Hilldawg but will he give the people of the dying rust belt towns some "straight talk" about how the problem was created and how to fix it? I remain skeptical, then again no one else out there is doing it either, because the class envy card is just so easy.

Elites
The author makes one inaccurate comment, and that is that manufacturing is not shrinking, it is expanding and moving up the food chain to more sophisticated products. On a practical level, this does not explain the net loss of manufacturing in an economy where in 2007, for the first time, those employed in manufacturing represented less than 10% of the job force. Nor does it explain the net loss of over 3 million manufacturing jobs over the last 10 years. Further, it does nothing to explain the difference between exporting $1.3 trillion, but importing almost $2.1 trillion in products, nor does it address the impact of what have become the largest trade deficits in our history on the value of the dollar, which is at its lowest level since the end of WWII. Nor, does it address the fact that no country has sustained its economic leadership in the face of a consistently weak currency. And then, of course, it also fails to address the fact that even if we do produce more sophisticated products, is it not possible that many of those may not in the future, also be made in other countries, must as the ones we import today were once made here and are now made elsewhere?

Perhaps Americans are not as sophisticated as one might like, but on a more practical level, no one is adequately explaining the long term effect of the size of the trade deficits we are now running on our economy, what it will take to restore value to the dollar, nor whether or not manufacturing, even in product areas we still control, will not also end up being made elsewhere.

What I suspect we're seeing is a gut level expression that is less protectionist, than a need for a time for pause and assessment. Those who believe in globalism have an obligation to explain themselves better than they are doing. And that's not the fault of Americans, that's the fault of elites who assume that their superior knowledge should be taken at face value - rather than questioned.

Robert
You have exactly zero credibility when it comes to the war, economics, or practical reality. In point of fact, McCain was pretty well on target with the war, though I don't much care for his constant chastising of Rumsfeld. One area he is wrong about is closing Guantanamo. But what do you care? I'm sure you can in short order find a way to blame everything on Bush anyway. Putz.

gunny
i must again caution you for telling the truth. I am getting tired of you constantly p*ssing on the parade of ther disillusioned. Since when does reality mean anything to the left. They still believe that with oblahma manna will fall from the sky and all problems will be solved because the rich who are only thieves in the night will finally be punished for all their greed and the true worthies, the great unwashed will finally achieve justice. That the left is enthralled with a new snake oil salesman selling the same old formula but only in a newer and larger sized container obviously escapes your understanding. If you continue to depress the mindless how will they find the courage to line up for more govt assistance and handouts.

The Sun Always Shines on TV
Sarah wrote:
"In the meantime, like another blogger said "the sun shines on t.v.".

That was me. Every time I hear Obambi ramble on, that 80s song by A-Ha starts playing in my head.

If we're lucky, that's where Obambi's Socialist, Globalist, diabolical plans will end: on TV.

Hitchhiker blogs this:
"...protectionists If preventing the movement of products, services, or capital across national borders would increase our standard of living then why wouldn't you advocate the same protections across state lines? Do you mean protections across state lines where boundries do not naturally exist, people speak same language, their cousins live in another state, the same religions exit, people who look the same live there, no visa is required, people are essentially taxed the same, they get the same "benefits" from the taxes, etc. ad infinitum. Who or what is behind the globalism - my conspiracy thoughts are: CFR, Trilaterals, and Bilderbergs -- who preach that no borders, one government, free trade, etc., is better than arguments and wars between countries -- but it is all for commerce and business. Who is preaching and supporting these efforts? Newt, Clintons (but not today), Bushes, George Will, Michael Barone, Kerry, Kudlow, Paul Gigot -- just to name a very few who are on the membership list. With such a huge number of very, very prominent people why wouldn't we get published reports from the media members? they are not permitted to do so under the penalty of sanctions. You think China achieved all of its technology overnight? We also exported along with the job and recieved no monetary returns for that either. So what to do now -- I don't know. The same for how return to the US to yesteryear - before the FDR, LBJ, and Truman social programs. What is guaranteed for our future - more liberal programs. By the way - the Norwegian health programs are in the tank - their ER rooms are stacked to the ceiling with patients waiting for help, for example, with heart attacks and other minor problems. But theirs is "free."

HankRearden
LOL! Your post at 0821 to Frobusto (Fraud Roberto) was a hoot. It's quite obvious he's a legend in his own mind.

He ran like a r*ped ape from my 1000.00 challenge/bet to shoot against me with his .203 caliber rifle (whatever THAT is) and me with my 03A3 after he was bleating about sniper tactics.

Frobusto is an absolute expert on absolutely nothing.

wildwest
HAHA! That is probably the BEST post I've read in a long time on the mindset of the "entitlement" wing of the Jackass Party.

I guess I'm the eternal optimist. Once they "crash" the USA, we can then feel free to purge them and then build a stronger nation, along the lines of the Constitution like our Founding Fathers intended.

HankRearden
GOGOGOGO!!!! You the man!

Where's the beef?
I thought this would be an article about Obama's thoughts on trade. Maybe the author couldn't find anything to criticize him on, and figured that everyone at townhall is so ill-informed that no one would notice.

The fact is, Obama is not an isolationist. He recently stated that America has "benifited enormously from trade". He just thinks that trade deals like NAFTA are bad for America because we didn't negotiate a good deal. All of the benefits go to the stockholders of the companies, and none of the benefits trickle down to the workers, in all countries concerned.

Watch out when free market evangelists start talking about all of the great goods we get. They're trying to get you to focus on your shiny new flatscreen TV, while diverting your attention from the fact that your friends are losing their jobs to people who will work for dirt because they don't have any other options.

Just because someone thinks that American workers, and the workers in other countries, should get a good deal in trade negotiations, doesn't make them an isolationist. It means that they care about the little people AND the big people.

You Republicans better get used to the idea that you're not running against a knee-jerk liberal. Obama is his own man, and an individual thinker of the highest caliber. So your knee-jerk arguments aren't going to cut it any longer. He's going to make people like Johhnie Byrd here, look like fools.

Phylo out.



GunnyG
Your right about Robert. I know it's not worth the time to respond to his assanine claims, but sometimes I feel like sparring. There is no question the guy is an absolute fraud, that is why I don't grant him anything, especially since he's not about debating either. Rather, he operates like the drive by media; he gets his potshots in and by the time you respond to one of his false premises, he's already moved on to something equally absurd. The point of course is to keep us perpetually on the defensive, but I don't play along.
I appreciate your posts. .203 caliber? I'm not even a military guy and I know that's bogus.

Phylo
"He's going to make people like Johhnie Byrd here, look like fools."

Phylo, please name one accomplishment of Obambi that gives him Executive experience?

What he's done is made you and the rest of the DNC into a bunch of bobbleheads nodding along into unison like the cultists you are. But don't take my word for it, I challenge you to read
O-Vomit's OWN WORDS on my blog from a recent speech.

I'll be waiting to read about all of his executive accomplishments.

HankRearden
Yeah, when I posted my challenge, he suddenly had something else to do and went to find out what "wonder woman" was doing with Fido.

I laugh when I see these idiots on the left touting Obambi like he's Lord Obmabi and the second coming. He's neck deep in Sorehole's pockets but they could care less. That pablum he's putting out must be filling to a moonbat.

It isn't
going to matter what kind of jobs are available if we can't get health & educational costs down.
And we must get rid of the damn lawyers.

These costs have to be reversed. When the costs on these go up 2 & 3 times the rate of inflation, we will eventually hit a dead end.

I hope we can all agree on that!!

Robert
I know talking sense to you is like wall-papering fog but for the benefit of anyone who might believe your mindless drivel, it is necessary to respond when you say something stupid (I realize using the word 'stupid' just then was redundant). It is pretty easy to criticize the prosecution of any military operation in hindsight. The fact of the matter is no war has ever been brilliantly concieved and flawlessly executed. We do the best we can with what we know, and it is pretty easy to say you knew better all along and if only the blood thirsty war mongering Rumsfeld and Cheney would have listened to you we wouldn't have lost 2,500 to 3,000 brave men and women.
The part about impugning my patriotism and honor is kind of clever but is nonetheless a non-sequitor. I'm tempted to say that those brave men and women knew what they were doing, they signed up for the mission to which they gave the last true measure of their full devotion, and that the best way to honor their memory is to finish the mission. However, that would be defensive, so I'm turning it around on you. You don't give a damn about those soldiers, but they are convenient for your scoring of political points because you hate Bush.
Since you claim almost no flag officers share my view about Gitmo I can be pretty confident that they probably almost all do. Frankly, Roberto, you have demonstrated yourself to be a fraud on multiple occaisions. Of course my evaluation of you means nothing, which must be why you bothered to take the time to respond. Shmuck.

GunnyG
His executive experience can be seen very clearly in how he's run his national campaign for the presidency. He took on the biggest toughest political machine (next to the Bush crime family) and he has reduced them to a sniveling mass of incompetence. And he did it without ever once going negative. He's run the cleanest campaign for president that I've ever seen. And there hasn't been even a hint of scandal or turmoil in the ranks.

This indicates that he shows excellent judgement in terms of who he hires. And it also shows that he can set a clear agenda and keep his people in line.

McCain's campaign, by contrast, has been a bit of a mess. They ran out of money at one point. Two of his national co-chairs have been indicted. And he can't rally the base of his own party.

Good luck in November chump.

Phylo out

freedom, prosperity?
that all depends on who is defining them.

so long as big business defines freedom and prosperity for us, we really have chosen to give these priveleges away to a select few.

I am free when:

I chose to purchase from individual crafts people rather than Home Depot.

I am free when I consolidate my time by coordinating several projects in any given day.

I am exercising my freedom when I chose right from wrong: I ask myself...a few of my dollars spent here/now, in-the-long-run will keep our nation on track.

I am free when I actually prepare meals, coffee, soft drink substitutes myself, rather than exchange my money for them regularly, outside my home.

I feel my freedoms when I spend a beautiful sunny morning raking and sprinkling my own gardens (not unnattended versions that fall, unnecessarily to my street's gutter), and get the extra benefit of collecting my thoughts and clearing my mind from all of the rubbish that has so rudely invaded it during the week.

I express my gratitude for these kinds of freedoms to my customers who frequent my shop, so that I consciously spread the seeds of wheat (along side the tares, I'm aware, come out of my mouth)...
so at least, later those can be separated by them...

hopefully while they are chosing to rake their own gardens in thought.

You see, we cloud what is 'important to remember'
by rushing through our days, as if we are commanded to.

We're not.

This is our choice, America.

Don't be angry at 'them'...

get angry with yourselves.

Then you'll see real change

this nation can afford itself of.




I am free
especially...

when I 'chose' to heal/rid myself

of 'flu' symptoms, for instance,

by means of my practical prayer regiment

rather than applying quick-fix bandaids,

which never truly heal anything.

That's the best freedom of all!


Phylo Se Fiser
Obama's campaign has been nothing more than a cult of personality. He is saying nothing better than anyone ever has, and his followers view him as a messianic character.
Saying someone has executive experience because he runs a deft campaign is to have zero understanding of executive experience.
B.O. might just get elected, but that does not make him qualified for the job. It just diminishes the prestige of the office.

HankRearden
"Wall-papering fog"- hilarious

Phylo
"His executive experience can be seen very clearly in how he's run his national campaign for the presidency."

THAT's IT!?

BWAHAHAHHAAHAHHAAHHAAHAHAAHHAA!

Robert
"...afternoon patrol."

Time for your crossing-guard duty?

Hank and Gunny
Apparently you two have zero appreciation for how difficult it is to run a national campaign.

Maybe you two bozos should try running for elected office so you can get a better sense of what a massive accomplishment this is.

Mitt Romney had tons of executive experience and tons of cash. Look what that got him.

Besides, Obama doesn't need more executive experience than anyone else. He only needs to have more proven success at running an operation than John McCain. It's going to be a cakewalk.

Phylo out.

Re: Minute of an Angle Accuracy
"He ran like a r*ped ape from my 1000.00 challenge/bet to shoot against me with his .203 caliber rifle (whatever THAT is) and me with my 03A3 after he was bleating about sniper tactics."

I assume you had your Springfield's trigger reworked/replaced, else consistent groups are often problematic. Personally I prefer the Timney Sportsman that adjusts for pull weight, (2-4 lb.), creep and overtravel. I find takeup on the standard (military) trigger on the O3A3 to be pretty excessive.

Robert
Again, it is easy to look back on history and point out every imperfection of warfare as a contrived scheme. Are you actually suggesting that there has ever been a war where unforeseen challenges and unexpected obstacles did not occur? Here is one that the administration and indeed most of us who love the country did not foresee: the undermining of every faucet of the mission by the likes of you and other like-minded liberals who see their country as morally equivalent the terrorist savages we went over there to kill.
I can do it too. Here's one, we should have never allowed embedded reporters with troops making it impossible for our guys to do their job. Every instance of an American soldier defending themselves against this vermon was highlighted as some sort of attrocity. Meanwhile every act of savagery by these primitive camel-humpers was ignored or worse, was tauted by American media gleefully as American failure.
Clinton? How about treating terrorism as a criminal act rather than an act of war? Hell if he would have captured or killed Bin Laden when he had the chance maybe 9/11 doesn't happen. Then again it was pretty hard for the FBI and the CIA to "connect the dots" because of the wall that was erected by Jamie Gorelick which was meant to hide his shady dealings with Chineese communists.

ModMark
If you're willing to admit you listen to Robert than I'm afraid your a lost cause. By the by, I have a question for you "patriots" who love to point out all the mistakes we've made in Iraq; we've lost close to 4,000 brave men and women in 4 years of battle in Iraq. Over that same period of time how many have we lost to crime and violence in any major American city?

Phylo Se Fiser
You got me. I have almost no respect for most of the cesspool that passes for the governing body which exists in Washington today, nor for the underhanded means by which most of them run their campaigns. Guilty as charged.

GunnyG
Obama might not have any experience but boy can he fold a towel around his head huh?

And that cute little apron.
Time for pancakes anyone???

Economist, Alan Blinder
Even Alan Blinder is having second thoughts on the affects globalization has had on the US.

When citizens are making less money, after their factory jobs went overseas, how do you expect them to buy higher end, tech or whatever products made in the USA?

The only country US workers will be able to help is China and India, etc.!

GM, Ford, Chrysler are using foreign made parts, but when they sell their cars here, it's still at the same high price as when Americans made them!

Mexican made appliances are still sold at the same or more high prices.

No politician will convince US workers that globalization has been good to them, when we have lost the ability to manufacture clothing, shoes, socks, keep importing oil, allowing certain armed services products made overseas, we are too reliant on foreigners now, and it better stop soon!


HankRearden
Good point on the casualties.

We've lost, according to DoD records, more troops killed during the Clinton years, accomplishing NOTHING, than in Iraq.

Funny, never heard the libs mewling about THAT.

On top of that, troops are reenlisting for extra tours, amputees are staying IN uniform AND coming back over here (check my blog), and the libs can't stand it.

Bman III
COFFEE SPEW!

Hey O-Vomit, I like my pancakes golden brown!

Bwhahahahaahaahahaahhahah!

Hey GunnyG
How's everything going over there?

All is well I hope....

GunnyG
How did it feel to scoop the national media on the turbin deal? Kudos to your site.

Phylo Se Fiser
spits:
"And there hasn't been even a hint of scandal or turmoil in the ranks."

Have you heard of he Che photo under the Cuban flag at his TX HQ's.

Phylo lost.

BmanIII/GunnyG
morning gents! BmanIII, can we have syrup with those pancakes?

SSGT
Ditto....

Now we know who gave Drudge the photo

SSGT
If it's syrup you want, it's syrup you'll get.

Poured by Oprah, I mean his wife Michelle.


Self-fulfilling prophecy of the left (1)
So, the perception is that the economy is tanking and that it's up to the Republicans to convince the pessimists and whiners that it's not.

What do you expect when the lib media, which is about 80-85% of the total media, is so afflicted with BDS it could do nothing for seven years except dog one of the greatest economies and one of the best-ever recoveries from a recession the world has ever seen.

During the last four years our economy has created over 12 million new jobs. And contrary to the lib media's talking points, repeated ad nauseum by libs from coast to coast (including the lib trolls that try to infest TH), these are not low-paying minimum wage jobs. Many of them are middle to upper income white-collar salary jobs and many of them are middle to upper income blue-collar salary jobs.

One of the biggest jokes going around is the idea that the Denocrats saved the working poor by raising the minimum wage to $6.95/hr. Anyone with a mortgage, a car payment, and a calculator knows that you can't support a family of four on less than $15.00/hr. And those are the jobs we've been creating. Manufacturing sector jobs are up too, just not in the traditional union bastions of the auto and steel-related industries.

If you want to know where the economic tsunami is coming from, just look at liberal economic policies. The enviro-whacko insistence that we can't drill our own oil has energy costs way up, and these are the same libs that complain about globalization and dependence on foreign oil.

Their AGW mantra has coerced the gov't into subsidizing ethanol, which has artificially raised the price of food.

They also want to raise taxes, which will reduce the availability of venture capital, which in turn will slow growth and slow the creation of new jobs.

The subprime mortgage 'crisis' is a direct result of liberal meddling in the free market.

Remember
when Ross Perot said you will hear a giant sucking sound and al(the hoax man) gore said he was dumb!!

GunnyG: robert left to go to AA. It has been failing him.

Flapjack YoMama
Barack "Aunt" YoMama:

When you serve up my stack, go easy on the syrup and butter. I don't want our national health costs to soar. Oh, never mind....we'll just "soak" the evil rich and get them to pay for my angioplasty.

Afternon patrols?
Hmmm... according to my trusty chronometer, when Frobusto was heading off for "afternoon patrols", it was after 6:00 PM where he claims he's "stationed".

It gets really hard to post here as often as he does and keep the "make-believe" world straight.

Self-fulfilling prophecy of the left (2)
The left has foisted Social Security on the country. Social Security is a controversial program. The controversey is not about whether SS sucks. Everyone agrees that SS sucks. The controversey is also not about whether SS will go belly up. Everyone agress that it will go belly up. The controversey, is whether it will go belly up in 2041 or 2045.

Imagine what the private sector could do with that money. Imagine how much earlier (read "younger") we could all retire if our retirement fund paid 6 to 16% interest instead of a miserly (and incompetent) 1 to 1-1/2%.

These same liberal geniuses, who have f**ked up our retirement funds, whose gov't interference has dramatically increased the price of food, fuel, electricity, natural gas, and heating oil, whose tax policies have choked capital investment for decades, have whined and moaned for seven years about a boom that produced a Dow over 14,000 just six years after they raved about a "Clinton boom" because the Dow topped 11,000.

Now they want to take over the nation's health care industry (roughly 14% of the economy). There is no reason to think they won't f**k that up as bad or worse than they have f**ked up every other economic thing they have touched.

Liberal eceonomics is a self-fulfilling prophecy. They start by lying about something that is working very well, saying it is failing because it isn't perfect. They insist we let them (the gov't) have control of it so it will be "fair". Then, when they get control of it, they f**k it up so bad that their original complaint comes true; it actually doesn't work (anymore).


ModMark writes to GunnyG:
"Why are you so willing to accept incompetent leaders in Washington when sending soldiers to the battlefield? Has your hatred of libs poisoned your mind so bad you accept failure?"

This just goes to show how willing lefties are to accept the MSM's definition of "failure".

By any historical perspective, the casualties suffered in this war are extremely low - yet armchair quarterbacks and their leftist accomplices have redefined failure to fit their political ideology.

Robert I am trying to understand
The Powell Doctrine states that a list of questions all have to be answered affirmatively before military action is taken by the United States. They are:
Is a vital national security interest threatened?
Do we have a clear attainable objective?
Have the risks and costs been fully and frankly analyzed?
Have all other non-violent policy means been fully exhausted?
Is there a plausible exit strategy to avoid endless entanglement?
Have the consequences of our action been fully considered?
Is the action supported by the American people?
Do we have genuine broad international support?

Can you only go to war if all of these are met? Excluding Afghanistan and Iraq, say we were facing a threat today could we really project into the future enough to answer with precision all these objectives?

CHT
LOL

That's been the game plan all along.

Kind of like the crack cocaine conspiracy in the ghettos. And AIDS in Africa

ModMark
writes:
"I used to enjoy strawberry pancake but now I switch to blueberry. One stack please, light on the syrup."

I thought you were gonna say that you enjoy pancakes with a good stout over a stack!

wiseone
there is not problem with social security.
it is only a myth.

the overhead to administer social security are around 3%. that is better than any private corporation.

finally social security is the most popular program ever introduced by government.

ModMark writes:
Why are you so willing to accept incompetent leaders in Washington when sending soldiers to the battlefield? Has your hatred of libs poisoned your mind so bad you accept failure?

Name me one competent lib in D.C.

The Titantic is Not sinking
religioulib wrote:

"there is not problem with social security.
it is only a myth."

My comments:

"This is your Captain speaking: The Titantic is NOT sinking. It is only a myth!"

"Pay no attention to that large hole in the hull.....or all of those people in lifeboats....or the fact that the deck angle is now 60 degrees.....!"

Robert I am trying to understand part II
Can you offer me more info on General Krulak and his theory and General Zinni?

Who should McCain choose as VP? Someone(please) young and (please, please) with economic shrewdness.

Self-fulfilling prophecy of the left (3)
They have done this with SS, education, health care, mortgages, and energy policy. Their 'performance' is exemplified by the domestic auto industry, which is bleeding sales and market share because of cradle-to-grave union benefits, artificially high fuel costs, and gov't mandates on what cars can be built. These have resulted in accelerated globalization of the industry. So naturally the lib idiots blame globalization, the result, instead of liberalism, the cause.

Morons.

And speaking of morons, our current presidential race been reduced to three economic morons who haven't got a clue.

All three of them think the "solution" to global warming is to cripple our economy.

Hillary wants to confiscate Exxon's profits and give it to the same gov't researchers who sold her the AGW bill of goods so they can fail to discover a "clean" fuel to replace oil. She doesn't even understand the technology of alleged AGW but she thinks she can confiscate other people's money (Exxon is 'owned' by literally millions of shareholders who have small amounts of Exxon stock in the mutual funds and retirement accounts), apparently waiving the "due process" clause of the Constitution because ... well because every knows that while her title will be "President" we're really electing her "Queen".

Obama's solution will be to halt everyone from burning anything and "hope" it gets cooler.

McCain's understanding of technology is to look at a poll conducted by the lib media and figure that if 51% of the public believe in the AGW hoax it must be true. So he'll cap and trade "carbon credits" (does he even know the difference between "carbon" and CO2?), sign higher CAFE standards into law, and cripple the domestic auto industry even further.

And the libs he'll "reach across the aisle" to in order to do this will blame the ensuing recession on "globalization".

wiseone and SSGT
There is not a problem with SS.

I repeat - there is not a problem with SS.

It is the most popular program.
I repeat - It is the most popular program.

Do you think it is because it is MANDATORY.

Give me a freakin' break.


3% overhead. Maybe because the actual overhead is charged to another agency.

3% of what - the GDP???????

Primus54
Thank you for putting things into proper perspective. Here I was willing to argue these people on the basis of their false premise, which is their best weapon. You are right, by every measurable standard the casualty count is lower than in any major conflict in human history, and probably lower than Detroit over the same time period. Appreciate it.

C.H.
Do yourself a favor bud, don't try to understand Robert. He is a demonstrable fraud who while fun to spar with occaisionally is hardly worth the sort of critical scrutiny you are attempting to apply.
McCain...He would do well to name Bobby Jindal his veep, he is both young and economically shrewd.

ModMark
ANWR
Wouldn't it takes years of litigation to "open ANWR" because of current environmental laws?

All the concerns are for the Caribou. Did you know they are not a native species to that region? Maybe we can gather them up and return them to Siberia.

Can I sell my snow to Saudi Arabia?

Who should be McCain's VP?

HankReardon
Thanks...I loved your posts BTW....but I'll take my chances. I don't know what he's talking about and I want to learn.

HankReardon
Who do you want to see as McCain's vp?

BmanIII
its the most popular because people who never put a dime into it in their life, still reap the bennies of it.

Hey, that gives me an idea!

BmanIII
The libs don't see a problem with social security because they don't see 85% tax rates in order to fund it ten years from now as a problem. Of course those of us who recognize this as an economic catastrophe that will effectively end productivity are just crazy right wingers.

primus54
mod mark is a voice of reason here.

his views have nothing to do with the MSM.
it is reflective of 70% of the american people.

most cities in iraq are now run by shiite or sunni clerics and most are run by shiria laws.

is this victory?

we still have 150000 troops there, keeping the shia and sunni apart.

is this victory?

americans have a lot of common sense and most americans do not believe iraq has been a success.

So C.H.
You are new here huh?

Robert the wet pilot who does night patrols in IRAQ for the US Navy isn't worth the time.

religiouslib proves my point
"there is not problem with social security.
it is only a myth.

the overhead to administer social security are around 3%. that is better than any private corporation."

This is a perfect example of what is wrong with liberal economic thinking. It's perfectly OK with this economic illiterate that he'sonly getting 1 to 1-1/2% interest on his investment as long as "the overhead to administer" it is less.

This is the liberal obsession with eliminating "profit" at work. religiouslib could retire 6 to 10 years earlier if the money the gov't took out of his (and his employer's) paycheck for his SS had been invested in a safe. stable stock/bond/mutual fund instead of being raided by Democrats in Congress to fund welfare and pork (and still run up the national debt). But it's perfectly OK with him to work an extra 6 to 10 years and not retire as well as long as no private investment firm makes a profit.

This,of course, is in addition to the fact that SS IS GOING BANKRUPT!!!!!

What an @ss.

"finally social security is the most popular program ever introduced by government."

More lib thinking. How does rl define "popular"? Because everyone participates? News flash for rl. People don't participate in SS because they like it. They participate in it because they have no choice.

Give them a choice between 1 to 1-1/2% and 6 to 10% and you'll find our how "popular" SS really is.

Free Trade
I'll trade one barrel of snow to Saudi Arabia in exchange for one barrel of oil.

Global warming took a break this year, at least where I live.

Water is the oil of the future.

bmanIII
do the research

i have-- an everything i said was true.

you did not refute my answer just got sarcastic.

if you think i am wrong prove it with facts not innuendo.

C.H.
Thanks. Bobby Jindal, Gov. of Louisiana. Sarah Palen, Gov. of Alaska would also be a solid choice, however I don't know where McCain's head is at about this. He may have political favors he'll want to honor before choosing somebody the base really wants. At this point it's impossible to tell.

Phylo
You're kidding, right? Obama has no message other than he uses the right words and continues to promise his "black" constituents more entitlements. Now, I'm sorry. Tell me how that works, again? He was raised by a single parent and oh, look how far he's come? BFD. So he can campaign. What does hope really mean? It is as empty as my garbage can when I empty it. It is a four letter word for him-- v-o-t-e.
He offers nothing, absolutetly nothing newer than any other leftist. And, you will be suffering from the wife beater syndrome soon enough. You know, the promises to change until the next beating(if he wins) and then the ultimate slap when you find out he lied and does nothing, but you "believed, in change and you hoped for change" so that akes the vote for you supporters. Does it hurt much? No? Well, it surely will.

religiouslib
What do you think is going to happen when tax rates reach 85% in order to fund Social Security?

HankReardon
Did you know that many of the telecommunication jobs have returned to America because no one could understand the English speaking Indians?
Many Americans are now working from home for corporations and are very satisfied.

The market demanded it.

There are also many online sites that sell handmade items, DIY stuff. There is a renaissance positioned to happen in America, but the next president better know how to turn on a computer...or his vp should.

BmanIII
We are a big dysfunctional family, but at least we're talking. I'm old enough to remember when I had no voice because the media did all the talking and thinking for me.

Thank God Almighty......I'm free at last.

C.H.
I'm with you there, man. I'd die for sure if I thought there weren't enough of us for the Revolution!!

C.H.
Wait a second, are you telling me that the market solved the problem without government action? I went to public school, and I'm pretty sure they taught us that was impossible.

BmanIII
Do you know what he's referring to? Krulak and Zinni? I know Zinni was against the war or maybe just how it was executed.

ModMark
sorry for my ignorance...what do you mean by 'destination of ANWR'?

HankReardon
sorry for the shock.


ModMark
sorry for my ignorance...what do you mean by 'destination of ANWR'? Could it be so simple?

religouslib
how can it be popular if it is mandatory?

It is forced, therefore, the largest program...

HankReardon
VP
I think a woman would be good. I hate to say this, but I like Romney because he is an economic whiz.

Before you argue about what he spent on his campaign, I will argue that it was a necessity. He got no media handouts like McCain and Huck and Obama.

Phylo...the media is running his campaign.

ModMark
You should love the FC girls if you want to live. Water trumps oil.

C.H.
welcome to the frey! It will take some time to get use to BmanIII, but hang in there, its worth it!

Hey Bman, :-)

Is anyone
listening to Bo, on Rush right now?

ModMark
I heard it snowed a lot up there this year too...the permafrost is probably OK.

Who removes the designation? I fear I know the answer...the UN? Is this one of the 'World Heritage Sites'?

C.H.
I got no beef with Romney except that he looks like a used car salesman. He CERTAINLY would have been preferable to McCain, but for whatever reason he couldn't connect with voters on a personal level, and once it became a 2 against 1 campaign with Huck and McCain teaming up, Romney's goose was cooked. Either way I doubt McCain will choose Romney for the veep, he obviously doesn't respect the man.

CH
GREAT post at 1159 and oh so true. And it p*sses the libscum off no end that the common man/woman is/are able to criticize idiots like empty-suit O-Vomit and filled pant-suit Hitlery. Wait, can't forget McShamnesty, hero of 25 million illegal aliens.

Swoop by my blog for today's gouge on O-Vomit. (Click on my handle)

For ModMark
The Senate under Bush DID vote to allow drilling in ANWR.

From google:

"51-49 Senate Vote Backs Arctic Oil Drilling (washingtonpost.com)"

"Thursday, March 17, 2005; Page A01"

Excerpts:

"A closely divided Senate yesterday voted in favor of opening Alaska's Arctic National Wildlife Refuge to oil drilling, bringing a long-sought goal of the Bush administration within striking distance of being realized."

"By 51 to 49, the Senate thwarted an attempt by most Democrats and SOME MODERATE REPUBLICANS to strip a provision on drilling in the refuge from the 2006 congressional budget resolution. By giving the drilling proposal the protection of the budget rules, GOP leaders have effectively prevented opponents from using a filibuster to block a final vote on the proposal."

Emphasis on "some moderate Republicans" in the quote above was added by me.

"Congress used a similar approach in approving the drilling as part of a budget bill in 1995 over the strong objection of environmentalists, BUT PRESIDENT BILL CLINTON LATER VETOED THE MEASURE. This time, however, supporters are bolstered by a Republican president who has made the drilling a key piece of his energy policy, a GOP-controlled House that has repeatedly favored drilling, and a Senate whose Republican majority grew by four seats in last November's election."

Emphasis on "but President Bill Clinton later vetoed the measure" in the above quote was added by me.

"In some previous years, drilling in the refuge was defeated because proponents could not muster the 60 votes needed to cut off a filibuster. Under Senate rules, the budget resolution cannot be filibustered and a 51-vote majority is needed to approve it."

Nee
I hope Republicans like you continue to underestimate Obama. By the time you've figured out that he's a man of tremendous character and deep insight, rather than a knee-jerk liberal that you can attack with all of the same tired old Republican rhetoric, he'll be taking the oath of office.

If you really want to know what you're up against, I suggest you go read both of his books.

Phylo out.

We don't experience economics
The old joke about the difference between a recession, which is when your neighbor is out of work, and a depression, which is when you are out of work.

We experience our own lives on a very small and personal scale. We don't personally experience a growing job market or even, I think, inflation. We only know what is happening to us.

Discussions of economic trends, globalization, etc. are for the elites and this guy sounds like an elite.

His example of shutting down one plant in Cairo and opening another plant with 30 higher paying jobs is an example of conservative sophistry. Why?

The higher paying jobs will probably go to younger more educated people who never worked in the old plant that got shut down. The actual people who lost their jobs may never get another job or get one that pays as much as the job they lost. In most cases the argument for globalization is this: "At some point in the future globalization will produce more and better paying jobs at different locations and for different people, probably the next generation, rather than the people who lost their jobs thru plant closures."

Thanks I'll be back!!
ModMark..thanks for your answers. Robert has given me some good answers in other threads. He does seem to know a lot about military strategies. I'm trying to understand his perspective.

SSGT:thanks..it does take awhile to understand what's being said. I will hang in there.

I have to go to work.

Congratulations
To Johnny Byrd. This is by far his best and most responded to article yet.

C.H.
Hasta la vista, amigo!

SSGT
Thanks for the compliment.

I think....

Re: Hysterical Historians
"Rumsfeld...and Cheney. Ignoring the lies/exaggerations whatever that were said about "going" to war...the fact is that Rummy and Dickie prosecuted it badly until they were defeated in 06...and then they finally adopted what was going on in Anbar...without the approval of Rumsfeld.

"That cost the US about 2-3000 lives and if that doesnt upset you then you are not much of a patriot...or a person with honor."

It is obvious that you "know as much about battle as (you) do about fornicating."

The combat phase Operation Iraqi Freedom (Gulf War Phase II) ended less than 30 days after it began with the accomplishment of it main objective - the capture of Baghdad and disposing Saddam Hussein.

To accomplish this mission, the US/Coalition military forces used approx. 298,000 personnel lead by Gen. Tommy Franks. They were opposed by approx. 389,000 regular forces, 650,000 reserves, and approx. 44,000 Saddam Fedayeen, lead by Saddam Hussein. During the combat phase Iraqi KIA were 7,600-10,800 (plus between 3,200-4,500 non-combatant death) with approx. 22,400 WIA vs. 173 KIA for the Coalition with 542 WIA.

When compared to the last major battle of WWII, Okinawa, it is obvious that Operation Iraqi Freedom was planned and prosecuted suburbly. Allied strength at Okinawa was 548,000 soldiers (Marine, Army, and Navy from the US, UK, Can., Aus. and NZ) with some 1,300 ships. They were opposed by approx. 100,000 Japanese Regular and Militia forces. Beginning on March 26, 1945 it took the Allies, despite a 5 to one numbers advantage, some 87 days to complete major combat operations with the final Japanese surrender not taking place until the Japanese formal surrender after the A-bombs were dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki in August 1945.

Re: Hysterical Historians
Allied KIA/MIA were 12,513 with 38,916 WIA and 33,096 non-combat losses (also 79 ships were sunk and 763 aircraft were lost). The Japanese suffered 66,000 KIA/MIA (with an additional 75-140,000 civilans dead or missing), with 17,000 WIA and 7,455 POWs (also 16 ships swere sunk and 3,130 aircraft were destroyed).

The only blame of the combat phase of the Operation Iraqi Freedom belongs to Colin Powell and US State Dept., and not the DoD. Powell promised Rummy and the Pentagon access for the 4th ID-M through Turkey, thus initiating a 2 front attack. Instead, Powell failed to deliver, causing the 4 ID-M, which was setting embarked in the Med waiting to invade Iraq through Turkey, to have to sail through the Red Sea and attack through Kuwait, along along the same supply corredor as the 3 ID-M, the Marines, and the Brits. The biggest problem with the execution of OIF was the loggistics problems of having only one supply route. This was caused by Powell's diplomacy failure.

Additionally, with 4 ID-M attacking from the North, Baghdad would have been sealed off from the Sunni Triangle, thus trapping the Ba'athist die-hards (and the truck loads of cash and arms), who made up the bulk of the initial insurrgency, in the capital, allowing the Coalition to solidify control before the "domestic" terrorists could scatter.

Phylo
pukes:
" he'll be taking the oath of office."

He'll be taking your cash too!


Phylo out of money!

More for ModMark
Your boy McCain voted to oppose cloture on the Stevens Amendment to allow an up-or-down vote on drilling ANWR on April 18, 2002.

Your boy McCain voted "yea" on the measure to strike authorization to drill ANWR from the budget bill I discussed in my previous post. That was on May 16, 2005.

In short, your boy McCain has voted against drilling ANWR at every opportunity.

John Acton
Thank you, though your explanation will of course be ignored by the libs here, you are of course correct. Another way to illustrate the point would be to put it this way; what military operation in the history of warfare on the same scale as operation Iraqi Freedom went smoother with fewer casualties?

Still more for ModMark
"Note: all ANWR would do, increase the capacity of the pipeline from 50 to 100%. It would not flood the market with oil."

Tapping ANWR will take 7-10 years to reach full capacity after drilling is allowed. Experts project that when ANWR is fully online it will reduce the amount of oil we import from 68% to 65%.

If the Alaska Pipeline and drilling operations on the North Slope are any indication, the caribou herd will increase from drilling operations in ANWR. That is what has been experience from the North Slope and the Pipeline.

"Do it now before the permafrost melts from global warming, that pipeline can only bend so much."

You can't seriously believe this AGW crap.

Quotes, please
> Obama has no message other than he uses the right words and continues to promise his "black" constituents more entitlements.<

Could you please quote for me the sppech(or speeches) where Obama promised more entitlements to his "black" constituents?

BmanIII
you know it was a kudo!

SSGT & wiseone
We have to set C.H. straight on wobbie next time he is here.

Is wobbie back from the night patrols in Iraq yet?


Thanks SSGT
I thought it was

wiseone
Mucho appreciate your deft research on ANWR. I think it is both proper and wise for us to drill not only there, but off the coasts of California and Florida, as well as anywhere else we might think it is. My question to you is, will we be any better off if we increase our domestic supply of crude oil without simaltaneously increasing dramatically our refining capacity?

SSGT
HAHA! He's out of gray matter as well.

ModMark
The Earth is not in a warming cycle and even if it was there is ZERO evidence that it is being accelerated by CO2 emissions. You are believing a lie that is only "center" if your starting point is the Soviet Union.

For Proud Liberal
"The higher paying jobs will probably go to younger more educated people who never worked in the old plant that got shut down. The actual people who lost their jobs may never get another job or get one that pays as much as the job they lost. In most cases the argument for globalization is this: "At some point in the future globalization will produce more and better paying jobs at different locations and for different people, probably the next generation, rather than the people who lost their jobs thru plant closures."

OK, let's suppose your theory, which is very dubious to begin with, is at least partially true. Please explain how our current energy policy is helping middle-aged UAW members avoid the alleged evils of globalization.

How does the decimation of the US auto industry BY OUR OWN ENVIROMENTALLY-INFLUENCED ENERGY POLICY help the UAW?

How does banning the construction of new refineries, so that we are now IMPORTING 13% of our refined gasoline (and raising the price in the bargain) keep those high-paying jobs from being "globalized".

Do you know where the batteries that are used in "hybrids" come from? Canada. The environmental damage from the plant that makes these batteries violates US environmental laws.

As usual, the very globalization that liberals whine about is caused by their own naive, foolish, and counterproductive policies.

For ModMark
You are a moderate. McCain is a moderate (and a weenie). He's yours.

What ban?
>How does banning the construction of new refineries<

There is no ban on constructing oil refineries. The oil companies don't want to invest billions in new refineries that will be obsolete within 15-20 years.

The next wave of oil refining will be concentrated on oil sands and oil shale, which takes a completely different refining process than crude.

wiseone, Hank
"As usual, the very globalization that liberals whine about is caused by their own naive, foolish, and counterproductive policies."

The global warming crowd is also counter to the evolutionary crowd. Why won’t liberals let the climate Progress? Why do they feel the need to deny evolution?

GunnyG
an empty mass I might add. Its called the hollow halls of his brains!

ModMark
I'm sure that with all the base closings that the klintoons demanded in the 90's, I'm sure it would not be hard to find 10 or 15 near ports. Thanks slick willie
FOR NOTHING

Redhead
Excellent point. The answer of course is because evolution does not include human behaviour. Somehow everything in the world is natural except us, so by our very existence we are inhibiting evolutionary progress. This would stand to reason since they claim CO2 emissions cause global warming, and since we breathe out C02, by our breathing we are destroying the earth. Of course I must ask, without people, what the hell good is the earth?

ModMark
writes, "Go back and read Roberts post. Bush and Rummy failed to listen to the advise on how to fight this war from our Generals. If Rummy took their advise and the war failed, it would be a failure of our top brass in the military."

I understand Robert writing trash like this. It is his job. You claim to seek truth. You better read Tommy Franks's book before spewing such nonsense. Do you know who he is?

HankRearden
just curious, is that you Max?

Re: Save the polar bears
"Arctic National Wildlife Refuge (ANWR) is a designated Wilderness area to be preserved in pristine condition. This means no roads, houses, oil platforms, etc. It became this in 1960."

Not quite! Of the 19 million acres of AWNR only 8 million arces are designated "Wilderness Area" and 10.1 million acres are designated "Minimal Management,". In 1980, 1.5 million acres of "coastal area" (where the oil is located) were added under the Alaska National Interest Lands Conservation Act. Congress mandated this area be studied specifically for natural resources, especially petroleum.

"So first we must removed this designation, that has been the problem. I think it can be done with little harm and say go for it. We already have a major system in place which has effect the environment, the pipeline."

No, the area in question requires merely Congressional approval to permit drilling for all.

"Note: all ANWR would do, increase the capacity of the pipeline from 50 to 100%. It would not flood the market with oil. Do it now before the permafrost melts from global warming, that pipeline can only bend so much."

Seeing how the North Slope is the largest oil field in all North America, doubling it would have as much effect on oil prices as did it original 1977 opening. BTW, I guess you didn't get the memo about the coming Ice Age!

mod mark
my internet access is fading in and out so i cannot respond as promptly as is wish.

yep the end of basketball.

my son ended up all-conference and it was a great ride.

the e-mail thing. for some reason my son's coach was the same way. he would phone 1 or 2 players and tell them to pass it on rather than just simply e-mail the team.

i don't get it either.

SSGT
Sorry bro, I ain't Max.

HankRearden
my bad! He goes by Hank_Scorpio but like the few and proud around here, we get the boot every so often and have to come back reincarnated. I was just wondering....
Not trying to take anything away from you

Energy
I hate to say it but unfortunately our next president will be someone who buys into the global warming hoax, and as such will do nothing to increase oil supplies and/or expand energy production. So this problem is going to get kicked down the road at least another four years, barring something freakish happening at the convention, which does not seem likely.

SSGT
No offense taken sir. If he has your respect than I'm honored to be mistaken for him.

Everybody
Good luck and Godspeed out there. It's been fun.

HankRearden
You are correct on the oil production issue. They have push the American people in a corner, and now the price is the limit. When they start making light bulbs mandatory in every home in the U.S., they are gonna break a lot of its citizens. The communists seem to be winnin in this country (for now). That will also change soon enough.

ModMark
I think that the Moose will be Loose tonight! Its been a long day, and I will have to toss back a couple to recoop!

No where
have I heard anything about fair trade. If we have a trade deficit, with China as Duncan Hunter
kept saying where is the freedom in the trade?
Where are the U.S. products on our shelves. How can there be free trade when our industries are so over regulated by the enviroterrorists, the
left and all the other assorted moonbats, and taxed beyond comprehension..where is the free
trade. What they are actually saying, it's free trade because my portfolio is bursting with
dividends from the foreign market, and that's good for me. Too bad you lost your job, but that's the breaks, I'm doing quite well thank you, and o, don't forget to vote for me, there's more snake oil to go around.
But what do we do, we buy the chinese products, our pets were poisoned, our kids were poisoned, the stuff is poor quality made by wage slaves in China and other third world countries. And do we bother to read the country of origin in our food lables? I do, because of a health issue, I have to read lables however, I watch for the country of origin and I refuse to buy anything produced in China Mexico and several other countries. I may have to go without certain items but I'm not going to take a chance on being poisoned, or catch a gastrointestinal disease. And it's my small rebellion. Until Americans decide that their countries welfare comes before materialism, then this will continue.

whoops
I know how to spell, my fingers just forgot, make that labels.

Wow, Robert
You sure do have a lot of free time for an "active duty" naval officer.

Does your chain of command know how much time you spend trying to prove how smart you are to a bunch of people who could care less?

You're a fraud... and a dolt... and a leftist apologist for Clinton and probably Carter (if he were relevant).

You constantly talk about the "far right" as though it were a bunch of extreme KKKers - when the reality is that your ideology is slightly left of Hillary.

You can stop pretending to shill for McCain. Your rhetoric doesn't match your claims.




Robert's "Wonder Woman"
Oops - sorry Robert. Almost forgot.

We found a shot of your "Wonder Woman" on the web. We thought you'd like everyone to catch a glimpse of the love of your life.

http://tinyurl.com/2ow35p

WobbieDaWonderWabbit scribbles:
Off for some sleep
...later/latter

Translation follows:
I want to put in some air time in my walmart helo and I have to get some sleep before I go to my early shift at Dunking Doughnuts.
HEY WOBBIEDAWONDERWABBIT, YOU EVER ANSWER TAIL2LONG .MIL ADDY YET? DIDN’T THINK SO. TWIT.

http://eclipptv.com/viewVideo.php?video_id=956&title=Vietn am_Veterans_Against_McCain&vpkey=62acaf320c

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.htm l
Free Ramos and Compean
Write in a name folks, it is still a free country! Well, until McQuack comes up with more ideals on how to kill free speech.

More lib economic ignorance on display
utahnotmormon writes:

"There is no ban on constructing oil refineries."
This is Part 1 of 2

Technically this is correct. There also is no "ban" on building nukes. But the Democrats who controlled Congress and the WH in 1978 and 1979 succeeded in enacting legislation to make it impractical (that means too lengthy and expensive) to build either. For example, one power company tells a story about trying to get permission to build a nuke in the post-Carter era. They discovered that the application to the EPA filled an entire semi-trailer. That is liberal energy policy at its quintessential best.

I reduced all of this in my original post to "banned" because of the 2000 character limit.

More lib economic ignorance on display
Part 2 of 2

"The oil companies don't want to invest billions in new refineries that will be obsolete within 15-20 years."

No part of this statement is true. Oil companies have not built any new refineries in the last 30 years because it is impractical. That means it is cheaper to max out production in existing refineries by making allowable improvements under "grandfather" provisions and loopholes in the environmental laws of the '70's than it is to build a new refinery. It also is (apparently) cheaper to import refined gasoline than to spend over $3 billion to build a refinery and wait the 10 years it will take to wade thru the EPA's red tape and build it before they can sell their first gallon of refined fuel and start to make the money needed to pay for the construction cost.

Oil companies have no fear of oil becoming obsolete. They have already seen that when a clean, safe substitute comes along the first thing the enviros will do is conjure up a boogeyman and use it to get that method made impractical. This is what happened to the nukes.

Liberals have willfully refused to learn from the gasoline shortages of the '70's that when the gov't controls the supply of energy and fuel the result is skyrocketing prices and shortages.

They still haven't figured out that this is what caused the rolling brownouts in CA in 2000-2001.

Morons

Response to ModMark Re: Hillary
ModMark writes:

"Well so is Hillary" (a moderate weenie).

So you think Hillary is a moderate AND that man is causing global warming?

Strike two.

Response to ModMark Re: ANWR
ModMark writes:

"I['m] glad Clinton veto[ed drilling ANWR], why use our oil when it was running at $20/barrel (this is hindsight of course)."

Please go back and read the part of my post you quoted, where it says ANWR will take 7-10 years to come on line. If Clinton hadn't vetoed drilling ANWR in 1995 it would have come on line sometime between 2002 and 2005; while we were at war in Iraq and/or Afghanistan. Excellent timing.

Also, by your logic, we should never drill ANWR since as long as we refuse to drill our own oil the market price will continue to rise. Someday oil will be $200/bbl, so I guess we should keep waiting until it really is "obsolete" as that great economist utahnotmormon would say.

The whole point of drilling ANWR and other domestic sources is to reduce our dependence on foreign oil and bring the market price down. When this oil is finally drilled "we" won't get any profit from it unless "we" own stock in Big Oil. But when it goes up "we" all have to pay more for auto fuel.

wiseone
You forgot we did it for the Oil. Any day now the supertankers will be rolling in from Iraq and gas will be 75 cents a gallon!

http://eclipptv.com/viewVideo.php?video_id=956&title=Vietn am_Veterans_Against_McCain&vpkey=62acaf320c

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.htm l
Free Ramos and Compean
Write in a name folks, it is still a free country! Well, until McQuack comes up with more ideals on how to kill free speech.

Good Article
Looking ahead, this is exactly where Republicans need to be focusing attention!

Robert
writes, "F minus for you"

I am printing and framing this, I hope you don't mind. I have never been prouder of an honor.


Quick "Sack Time"
Eh, Robert?

Almost like you're on MST or something...

Re: Hysterical Historians
"sorry you do all the way around."

And sorry you are "all the way round" when it comes to any matter military!

"First casualty comparisons between operations are almost meaningless, but they are completly without value when the comparisons are made "over" technological break points. Hence if the Marines on Iwo had the body armor that Marines In Anbar did, the casualties on Iwo would be quite different. FActor in helo's for evacs etc and your comparision slides into oblivion."

Casualty comparisons will always be validate when attempting to fit the costs of success or failure of any military. Our enemies, whether they are the NVA, Vietcong, Somali Wordlords, or the Islamist Jihadi, ALWAYS attempt to maximize casualties, whether they be our military or innocent civilians in order achieve the "propaganda victory", which is the ONLY way they can defeat us. No supposed military expert could possibly think otherwise - proving once that you are not expert in things military.

Also, I believe I compared Operation Iraqi Freedom's combat phase with the Battle of Okinawa and NOT the Battle for Iwo Jima. Two different actions. No wonder you are confused!

Re: Hysterical Historians
As for the importance of body-count in today's scheme of things, perhaps you should tell the NYT. Actually, casualties, and the lack there of, are compared all the time when one evaluates military commanders, and the effectiveness of their plans and their execution. For instance, compare the Gulf War, both Phases casualties with those of the Iran/Iraq War. Iranian and Iraqi casualties which were between 750,000-1 million and 375,000-400,000 respectively. Even an idiot like you should appreciate just how superbly the US plans, created executed by CenCom with Pentagon assistance and SecDef approval performed. Please provide one historical campaign that was as effective in reaching its primary objectives so timely and keeping all casualties, friendly, enemy, and civilian so low.

"SEcond folks with IED and the Imperial Japanese Marines are not comparable."

First, the defense of Okinawa was fought primarily by the Japanese 32nd Army of the Imperial Japanese Army plus the 10,000 man Okinawa Naval Base Force and 20,000 armed laborers. However, many of its personnel were poorly-trained reservists, conscripted students and home guard militia. The Naval Base Force was not Jap Marines but merely sailors with supply, maintenance, service and repair, and technical rating pressed into combat roles they were not trained for.

Re: Hysterical Historians
Second, IEDs did not play any part in the combat ops up until after the capture of Baghdad, and the fall of the Iraqi government. BTW, the Saddam Fedayeen were every bit as fanatical as the Japanese 1st line troops Lieutenant General Masao Watanabe, and used similar tactics such as human shields. The BIG advantage Lieutenant General Simon Bolivar Buckner, Jr. 10th Corps had one (beside 3 US Marine Divisions) was they had loyal press corps that didn't second guess them if they applied more force than might have been necessary to neutralize an objective. As situation not enjoyed by either Tommy Franks nor Norm Schwarzkopf. Also, the vast majority of combat on Okinawa took place outside of populated built-up areas, unlike the road to Baghdad in Operation Iraqi Freedom.

Third, the Allied Invasion (attacking) Force on Okinawa enjoyed a ratio of over a 5 to 1 compared to the Japanese defending forces, while in Operation Iraqi Freedom, the invaders were on the short side of a 1.25 to 1 disadvantage.

Re: Hysterical Historians
"Those comparisons just point you out to be completly "uninformed"...but we move on to casualty rates in general."

Actually, your total lack of knowledge regarding the actual battle for Okinawa merely shows that you are truly "clueless" on all matters military.

"If the level of casualties were any useful marker then the far right which blew several gaskets under Clinton for the fiasco in Somalia would have been completly out of line. AFter all what are 19 people?"

Why? Clinton's problem has always been micro-managing the military. In Somalia the US Marines, during Bush the Elder's Administration did a superb job of pacifying the Somalia situation making the delivery of humanitarian services possible. Clinton first removed the Marines in favor of a UN Peace Keeping Farce, supported by US force of SpeOps and the 10th Mountain Division, and than he changed the US military's mission to "Warlord Hunting".

Re: Hysterical Historians
"Problem is that the folks in Somalia were hamstrung by much the same nonesense that Rummy picked up...ie civilian leadership which knows almost nothing about military tactics. ...dictating them and the equipment to be used."

Exactly what did the SecDef and the President refuse to the troops on the ground in Iraq? Actually, unlike the Bush Administration, which gave the war fighters in Iraq everything they requested (ask Tommy Franks), the Clinton Administration refused the troops on the ground the US Armour they requested for PC reasons. Had US controlled amour been available, "Black Hawk Down" would not have amounted to the fiasco it did. As for the 19 KIA 73 WIA and 1 POW during that single day in the Mog, they represent over 58% casualty rates. I suppose this figure doesn't impress those on the far left, like yourself, however, such a casualty rate is higher than that for all Allied and Axis Units in WWII, save perhaps the Kriegsmarine U-boat Service.

Re: Hysterical Historians
"Clinton learned a valuable lesson in Somalia with the now infamous 'Black Hawk down'.

"First listen to the military as to what military power can do..

"Two set precise goals for military power to achieve.

"Three give the military precisly what it wants to achieve those goals.

"And he applied them well in Bosnia. Bosnia in overall is a tour deforce of American power."

Oh, really? I suppose you never heard of giant Charlie Foxtrot known as, "Task Force Hawk", brainchild of that "great" military genius, General Wesley Clark. Never before in the annuls of military history yhad so many, moved sofar, to cost so much and to accomplish so little. Lessons learned? Not quite!

As for getting the military "precisly what it wants", if Ike allowed Mongomery to wait for "precisly what he wanted", he still would be waiting to take Canne. If Grant had waited for "precisly what he wanted", the Civil War would still be unsettled!

Of course, Tommy Franks' Plan for the liberation of Iraq is called one of the most successful military operations ever.

As Clausewitz stated, "Any unnecessary expenditure of time, every unnecessary detour, is a waste of strength and thus abhorrent to strategic thought."

The Coalition troops used to overthrow the Regime reached approximately 300,000 before the invasion, about half of the force used in the liberation of Kuwait in 1991. Operation Iraqi Freedom Airpower was only two thirds that used the liberation of Kuwait. However, this significantly smaller force was able to defeat the military defenses throughout 450,000 square miles of Iraq, taking Baghdad in 21 days and liberating nearly 24 million Iraqis. Economy of force, a core theory of Clausewitz, played a key role in the success of the OIF.
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