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Wednesday, July 15, 2009
John Stossel :: Townhall.com Columnist
Health-Care Competition
by John Stossel
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The statist establishment would love a single-payer health-care system like Canada's if it were politically achievable. Barack Obama said that if we were starting from scratch, single payer is what he'd back. But, thankfully, Americans are still libertarian enough to cringe at turning the medical system entirely over to government.

So with single payer out of reach, the fans of government control have grabbed for second best: the "public option." This would be government-run health insurance that would "compete" with private insurance. (It wouldn't compete fairly because it could do something no private firm can do: milk the captive taxpayers.) But the public option is proving hard to get. Even some Democrats are nervous about it.

What's a statist to do?

Leading Democrats in the Senate say the answer might be nonprofit health cooperatives. Sen. Charles Schumer wants some method "to keep the companies honest," and if the "public competitor" can "do those things in a co-op form, I think we're open to it".

One sign that this may be the way things are heading is that the New York Times, the mouthpiece of the statist establishment, ran a front-page article last week that begins with glowing praise for a co-op where doctors have lots of time to spend with patients because of its "collaborative model of primary care." Among the media it's an article of faith that the "collaborative model" is more consumer friendly than a profit-seeking business.

The Times connects the dots in case anyone missed the point. "On Capitol Hill, those innovations have made Group Health a prototype for a political compromise that could unclog health care negotiations in the Senate and lead to a bipartisan deal. ... [T]he Senate Finance Committee seems poised to propose private-sector insurance cooperatives ... as its primary mechanism for stoking competition and slowing the growth of medical costs."

Give me a break. Since when is government needed to stoke competition? Competition is what happens when government lets people alone. I defy anyone to give me an example of lack of competition that doesn't have its roots in government intervention.

Since co-ops are nonprofit organizations owned by their members, the Times' story subtly implies that the profit motive is responsible for the absence of competition and higher medical costs. But that's ridiculous. In a free market without government barriers to entry, it's the quest for profit that produces competition and lower costs.

If health cooperatives were really more efficient and innovative, wouldn't they be copied all over the country? That's how the market works. When someone comes up with an innovative way of doing business, it is quickly imitated and improved on. But buried late in the Times story is the revealing fact that the co-op is "a rare survivor among the hundreds of rural health insurance cooperatives."

Hello? Don't the Times editors see the disconnect? If co-ops worked well, today there would be thousands of them. Why should taxpayers fund a method of delivering health care whose success is "rare"?

The newspaper story made another point that is a favorite of the policy elite: Preventive care will save tons of money. If that's true, there is nothing (but government) to keep people from implementing that principle. But is it true?

This seems to be one of those things we know that isn't so.

I take Lipitor. The drug may extend my life. But this doesn't lower my health-care costs. Years of pill-taking increases costs. If the pill works, I may live long enough to get an even more expensive disease. And maybe I, like millions of others, take Lipitor unnecessarily because we would never have had heart attacks. We then spend more, not less, on health care.

Health-care expert John Goodman of the National Center for Policy Analysis (www.ncpa.org) says there are "literally hundreds of studies from over the past 40 years that show preventive medical services usually increase medical spending ... Contrary to popular belief, checkups for children and adults do not save the health care system money".

If the policy elite really wanted cost-cutting competition, they would deregulate medicine. No one has ever found a better way to stimulate competition than freedom.

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About The Author
John Stossel blogs at http://blogs.abcnews.com/johnstossel/ is an award-winning news correspondent and author of Myths, Lies, and Downright Stupidity: Get Out the Shovel--Why Everything You Know is Wrong.
 
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Blue dogs can stop Health Care
Tell your senators - WE Will NEVER FORGIVE THEM IF THIS BILL PASSES. NEVER.

The url below contains a list of all the senators and how to reach them. The 13 blue dogs, I have listed below.

http://www.senate.gov
(lists tel. & e-mail)

ARIZONA, Blanche Lincoln
Mark Pryor
CONNECTICUT: Joe Liebeman
FLORIDA: Bill Nelson
INDIANA; Evan Bayh
LOUISIANA: Mary Landrieu
MONTANA: Jon Tester
NEBRASKA; Bob nelson
NEVADA; HARRY REID??????
NORTH DAKOTA: Kent Conrad
Byron Dorgan
SOUTH DAKOTA: Tim Johnson
WEST VIRGINIA: Robert Byrd

the competitive model is working so well
So well that many insurance companies have effective monopolies in parts of this country. It must be because their beneficiaries are just so super-satisfied with their coverage.

Mike

Why, yes, I am super-satisfied with my health insurance. Of course, Obama's health insurance program will squeeze private insurance carriers out of business, according to Democratic/Socialist, Sen. Bernie Sanders. I will wind up in a socialized system by the name of ObamaCare with everyone else, even though I am paying for more than just me.

Having lived in two European countries with socialized medicine, I am quite familar with the horrors of statist medicine.

Wasted effort?
Of course you are right John. And now that the democrats have the power to further inhibit competition, they wiil. So, now come the republicans crying "we know the way to better health reform".
Well, I am one who campained hard to get the republican majority that was wasted a few years ago. Health care costs sky rocketed under the republicans, setting the stage for whats about to happen. SHAME on you republican polititions for not enacting the solutions you now claim to want. I don't believe you any more.

Celente's TRENDS Aren't Looking Rosy
By 2012, the rest of the world will be in the Greatest Depression.

We will be in an Obamageddon.

A VERY STRONG third-party will be here pushing back at the Government and Wall Street in a way that they could have never imagined.

If the third-party fails to win, Obama will be history, anyway. His legacy will be that he was the man, who destroyed and bankrupted the Greatest Country in the History of the World.


Celente is correct 95% of the time. Politicians, BIG financial institutions, and BIG corporations could only dream...



My goodness, people, Obama said last night (what's this the 200th time???) that the country is BROKE.

Smoke?
Any clown who says they like the current health care system is no different than those democrats who said that second hand smoke was WORSE than first hand smoke.
You need a reminder that you are supposed to be more honest than a democrat. 75 dollar Tylenol tablets? Doctors ordering tests on top of tests to bolster the bottom line? Do you know what doctors and hospitals charge your insurance company? Get a grip, or a "D" on your voter registration.

Defy Anyone?
"I defy anyone to give me an example of lack of competition that doesn't have its roots in government intervention."

How about Microsoft in operating systems? Or any monopoly backed by power and entrenched anti-competitive practices?

Businesses don't want to "play fair" if they can extract 'monopoly rents' (as economists call them).

Are we all still defied?

Government is a Fat-Fingered Lummox
Having government compete with the private sector for health coverage is like having the bouncer compete with a thin guy for serving drinks at a bar.

The bouncer may be more clumsy, but he can muscle the thin guy out of his way and get the lions share of the drink-serving business.

Mike, afriKa
You do realize that the only reason those companies are monopolies is because of government regulation on the insurance industry, right? Insurers are already regulated to the hilt. It's a basic fact, the more regulations there are, the fewer competitors there are. There's a reason large businesses ALWAYS support regulations, it's cheaper to deal with the regulatory tape than it is to go out of business when faced with a new competitor. Regulations effectively block competition since it's too expensive to start up.

Microsoft is the same, excessive labor regulations make it nearly impossible to enter into the operating system market. Starting any business that can operate on that scale requires armies of lawyers to get the proper licenses from the Federal and State level. You need to gather massive amounts of initial capital just to afford paying out the require labor taxes. Our income tax code is punitive to any company that doesn't have a large stock of cash on hand, which is something Microsoft has in spades. Ever wonder why Bill Gates is a hardcore Democrat? He knows that's the party that keeps Microsoft powerful.

High taxes and regulations stifle competition everywhere. Every monopoly you can point is a direct result of government intervention. Microsoft would behave in a far more competitive manner if the USA didn't have a regulatory body anywhere and no corporate income taxes, Microsoft wouldn't have that wonderful buffer called government blocking newcomers to the field.

If Government socialized medicine...
...is so great,why do people from socialized medicine countries,like Canada,Great Britain,etc,come to the US to pay out of pocket for their health care?Do they know something we don't? By their actions,they are voting with their feet on health care.

Nam65-66
"...is so great,why do people from socialized medicine countries,like Canada,Great Britain,etc,come to the US to pay out of pocket for their health care?"

One reason is because it is ILLEGAL to go to a doctor and pay directly for health care that the government "provides"--at least in Canada. I don't know for sure about other countries.

Can you imagine the insanity of a government telling you that you CAN NOT spend your own hard earned money to save your own life!!!

Stonerock, just to clarify...
Doctors do not make money on tests. Labs make money on tests.

And no, for the most part, people do not know what the doctor or hospital charges the insurance company. If the government were in charge, we commoners would not know how much the government allowed the hospitals to be paid...by the government.

I don't know why
we're even having this debate or why Congress and the so-called president is foisting healthcare reform on us all now. Until the country is rid of 20 million or so illegal aliens, and we see what money is saved by doing so; until we close the loophole in our immigration and naturalization laws that allows a foreigner to simply pop over the border at the last minute, have a child and make their immediate family eligible for every free service we offer the poor here in America, I'm not supporting anything this government, or politicians of both parties want to do. I want to see what our savings will be after we rid ourselves of the freeloaders first. To my way of thinking, just taking these steps might go a long way toward easing California's budget problems.

Before Congress and the purported president spend one more dime of taxpayers' money, I want them to fix the loopholes in our immigration laws and I want the illegal aliens rounded up and sent home. I want the borders closed to all but legal immigrants. Then I want to see what kind of savings results in closing off that financial drain on us all. Then maybe, maybe, we'll talk healthcare reform. But not before, no, not one minute before.

If Congress and the "president" can't accomplish this, I'm quite sure they aren't fit to reform healthcare, any more than they are fit to continue to "serve" the People of these United States more of their self-serving BS.


Real Competition
Nothing that increases the number of "users" of a health system is going to increase the time that a fixed number of doctors have to spend with each user.

If the government really wanted to reduce costs, they would take steps to dramatically increase the number of doctors and nurses in America. Steps could be taken which include limiting the stranglehold that the AMA has over the medical profession.

They could pass laws allowing nurses to treat people for headaches and colds, etc.

And they could pass tort reform, which would bring down costs dramatically, but that goes against the trial lawyers' economic model of extracting money from each and every one of us via insurance companies. Since Flap Ears and his puff toads in Washington are all lawyers, that aint gonna happen.

St. Denis
I think many, many people will retain their own coverage, afraid of being thrown into a government health system, while at the same time paying taxes to support the new system.

Hence, the insurance companies win. They will run MessiahCare, picking up fifty million new customers. Which is why the top execs of the top insurance companies all backed Obama. Insurance is the result of lawyers and government working together.

Not to worry too much John ..
Not to worry too much John. We will be throwing these "bums" out next election and take our country back! Wait ans see!

Need a competitive environment
For an environment to foster competitiveness, it needs to have the availability of good information and low barriers to entry. Our current medical regime has neither.

Consumers of medical services do not have good information about pricing and performance. Hospitals and doctors have very opaque and complicated pricing systems that deliberately keep patients in the dark and confused.

My wife recently had a baby, and I was shocked at how the system slips in hidden costs and nobody except the invoicing wizard knows the costs. It certainly seemed to me to be an intentionally deceptive system.

Also, the state medical boards which say who can practice medicine is stacked with doctors. Medical doctors have been pretty darn consistent in pushing policies that limit competition and maintain barriers to entry.

Our current medical system is stacked against the consumer.

Maybe we should use the RICO statutes to go after doctors and hospitals for deceptive business practices.

Stossel
Keep up the good work!

Health Care
The statist solution would provide a good number of jobs for bureaucrats. And bureaucrats vote for Democrats. Is there a connection?

The prescription for Obamacare is to vote No.

test
test

JohnnyYP
Good post but we don't need to go after doctors or anyone else. YOU are responsible to look after YOUR family! I was in an accident and I have an aging mother. I went over my hospital invoice with a fine tooth comb and found errors which I didnt pay! GOVT = WASTE

You did the same! We dont NEED THIS F-ING govt for ANYTHING! We can wipe ourselves.

The Obamanites want to control our entire lives and let me tell you. IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!

BANG BANG

The easy solution is to get the gov't
out of the private sector entirely...never happen, but that would do it.
Drs order tests to protect themselves from lawsuits from the trial lawyers [ambulance chasers] who own the dem party.

Medicare pays for all manner of stupid things, I think they even spring for viagra.

If a women needs to go on welfare for even a little while, they insist on sending her kids to the dr and dentist who of course recommends all kinds of things like braces, who pays? WE do.

We are being manipulated and screwed on a daily basis and we all just biotch about it and stand for being ignored by the very people we voted for..Throw the GD bums OUT and start over again with people who actually believe in the constitution.

Watching that dog and pony show from DC ought to show what a despicible bunch of lunatics these dems are....that nominee of theirs has no business on ANY court given her views, no less the SCOTUS, what do you expect her position will be on healthcare?

Write to your senators and demand they vote against her, cap and tax and healthcare...I sure did, don't complain here, we don't vote.


I can't read a piece
like this without wanting to spit nails. Stossel makes perfect sense on a number of fronts, especially his point that de-regulation of medicine would increase availability and decrease costs.

Government's role should be limited to ensuring that doctors and nurse practitioners are qualified and competent. After that, it should get the h*ll out of the way. Imagine if your local Walgreens, K-mart, or any other run-of-the-mill retailer could make a profit by having a nurse practioner on staff who, say for about $15, could diagnose ear and sinus infections and prescribe anti-biotics, many of which are now already available for free? The mere fact of competition for the slew of patients who would clamor for this type of service would force the retailers to offer more and better services at a more attractive cost! Medical care would become the instant oil-change of the current era -- there'd be one on every corner!

the truth
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2jijuj1ysw&feature=channel_ page

I love how the health insurance system is RIGGED by the feds to make it costly to buy your insurance anywhere but your employer.

Then they turn around and complain the free market isn't working.

Then you have people like Mike who just ignore all the facts of the situation so they can complain.

gov't interference
gov't is already interfering in all facets of medicine.

1. Hospitals have to take in ANYONE whether they can pay or not. What happens to the bill? It gets passed on to paying customers
2. Trial lawyers have used the courts as a lotto to get huge awards armchair quarterbacking the Drs. They have to cover themselves so they have to order a lot of tests
3. 3rd party payers. Health insurance sounds like a great idea but is it? Health Insurance dictates what treatments are covered and which are not. They set guidelines based on costs and not on what is medically effective. The Drs have to listen to the insurance companies rather than the patient since it is the insurance that pays.
4. Inefficient payments. Drs have to submit bills to insurance companies several times before receiving payment. That's why many of them give discounts for cash, some over 50%!

Health Control
I think we can stop the push for Government Run Health "Control" in one easy stroke.
NO HEALTH CARE REFORM SHALL BE PASSED UNLESS ALL GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES, FROM THE PRESIDENT ON DOWN, ARE INCLUDED.
WHETHER IT BE A SINGLE PAYER SYSTEM OR CO-OP,
ALL AMERICANS WILL BE MANDATED INTO THE SAME IDENTICAL PROGRAM.
It is all or none.!!!
Thank you John.

Creating a right?
They just declared health care a right. Hmmm. Since health care doesn't sprout in nature for the taking, some must deliver it.

What do you call it when one entity MUST deliver a benefit to another with no choice of whether or not to deliver it? In a rational world, that's called slavery.

Let's see now. This implies that the drug-addicted wastrel becomes the lord and master of those who spent their entire lives studying and working to develop the knowledge and skills to deliver on that "right.

Wow!

HERBERT HOOVER REBORN
Irony of ironies, the man who would be the next FDR saving the US economy from the "sins" and "excesses" of "predatory" capitalism is evolving into the new Herbert Hoover turning a recession into the next Great Depression.

Click my name and read my piece: Barack Hussein Obama: Herbert Hoover Reborn

impact in Illinois
Kudos on calling socialism what it is -- slavery, another way for one person to say to another, "you work and I'll reap the benefits."

Kudos also for using the word "wastrel" in your third paragraph. Trolls throughout the 'net are wishing they had a dictionary.

Story
I remember back in 1979 Ed Clark, Libertarian presidential candidate, related a story about a trip to Mexico. While there he needed a flu shot. In the U.S., regulations required it had to be administered by a registered nurse in the presence of an M.D. The cost at that time was $25.

In Mexico, a clinician came to Clark's hotel room and gave him the same exact drug, from the same exact company for 1 peso (around 25 cents).

Think deregulating health care just bring down costs? Obviously, the poor would be helped the most. It's no coincidence that quality improves and costs decline in areas where there is the least regulation and free market reigns. During the decades when Bell had a government-imposed monopoly the phone industry was in a technological coma. I remember when you weren't even allowed to own your own phone, you could only rent one from Ma Bell.

Monopolies are bad, with government monopolies being the worst.

Let the insurance companies certify doctors, nurses, and drugs since they are in the best position to make the proper cost/benefit analysis. If you don't agree, you're free to spend your own money rather than pay premiums.

Simple Solution
Treat health insurance like car insurance. Customers can select what coverages they want, including catastrophic only coverage, pregnancy cost coverage, etc. In fact, health insurance should really only be for catastophic and major life events. Routine doctor visits, checkups, et al should be paid for out of pocket. Insurance is for covering large risks, not routine costs.

Catastrophic only policies would be affordable for all, especially if people would demonstrate that health insurance is a priority to them, rather than cell phones, cable tv, internet access, cigarettes, starbucks, etc. How can I pay for someone else's health insurance when they have all of these frivolous expenses in their lives while claiming they cannot afford health insurance?

Government mandates
Almost 20 years ago, I read an article in the WSJ written by a hospital administrator in California. The gist of the article was that, in a stable community with about 500 beds, the over all load on the hospital had not changed in years. However, their staff had doubled due to government mandates and paperwork.

This has only gotten worse since then.

It is ironic that the most complaints in health care are about HMOs. What is socialized health care but an overblown HMO with nowhere else to go?

Canadians can at least come here...for now, and they do.

Actually
Actually the public option being proposed in the House bill would be required to be self-supporting, that is not "miling the public." But dealing with reality would not help Stossel's case much so I can see why he choses to misrepresent what is being proposed.

After all if he acknowledged this he would have to explain why he does not think the private sector could compete with a public option on the basis of efficiency.

Write your senator
Thank you Pat from Texas for his info on senators. I just wrote to my Senator Landrieu, voicing my oposition to this half-baked and enormously expensive health care entitlement. I asked her to slow it down by voting no.

Sens. who should be contacted
Senators Bayh Indiana
Senator Ben Nelson NB
Sen. Joe Liberman CT
Sen. Mary Landrieu Louisiana
Sen. Blanch Lincoln AK
Sen. Pryor AK

They are anti-Obamacare.

Also, fouls on stem cell research:

According to col. Kumneto in the NYPost today, most Embryonic Stem Cell research is a dead end--1) experiments routinely are3rejected by patient's body and require heavy and expensive doses of immunosuppressive drugs that often lead to other medical complications,

2) "accepted" inserts often develop cancer,

3) some tumors are benign but can grow to baseball size and produce hair and teeth,

4) the media pushes ES over AS, although Adult Stem Cell research has been successful for decades in bone marrow transplants.

ASC research gets less money and anti-media coverage but is 100s of times more promising than ES. Adult stem cells usually come from the patient and so rejection is not a problem. ASC's growth is more controllable and unlikely to result in abnormal events like cancer. ASC are cheaper to work with, do not cost the lives of embryos, do not require "harvesting" after-births or placentas, and do not raise moral questions as ESC do.

Tremendous money is invested in ES, esp. a la states like NEW JERSEY, CA, and CT. CA last year put $3 million into ES, even though the state is bankrupt and 24 BILLION in debt. Michael Fox and the family of Christopher Reeve still promote ES as a cure for paralysis and disease like Parkinson's and Alzheimer's, although no ES has ever shown any promise there.

Dr. Bernard Healy of our own fed. NIH says Embryonic Stem Cell research is decades away from success.

So who pushes this dead end? The abortion crowd that ever wants another reason for maintaining the status quo???


Lon, are you kidding
Medicare is bankrupt and states are desperate for Medicaid money.

NO GOVERNMENT ANYTHING IS SUCCESSFUL.

The Post Office lost a billion in 2008 and has just lost another billion in the first half of this year.

Amtrak lost over a billion last year and nearly a billion in the first quarter of this year, when people are waiting to buy train tickets.

THE GOVERNMENT WILL NOT SUCCESSFULLY RUN HEALTH CARE.

Get a grip.

It's a scam of capture the most private records on a giant data base in DC and control people's lives by having bureaucrats decide who gets treatment and who not.

Bork Sotomayor while you're calling your Sens. to defeat Obamacare.

So, Mr. Stossel,

you lead us to the conclusion that our political leaders do not really want to control health care costs.

Now, to me, that is not news. Perhaps you can now explore why they do not want to cut costs and what taxpayers can do to prevent them from advancing their own interests at taxpayer expense.

Of course, that is the million dollar question. How do we stop our out of control Congress when the executive is run by a bigger leftist than the Congress?

Will Sonia Sotomayor protect us from the pseudo-elite power mongers.

Mike in Indiana
Mike in Indiana said it best... there is no reason health insurance isn't run like auto insurance: meaning catastrophic-coverage only, with you the consumer picking up your routine care costs.

Does State Farm pay for your oil changes?
Does Geico pay for your tire rotations? Does "Progressive" pay for your tune-ups? No?

Then why should Blue Cross be expected to pay for your physicals, check-ups, sniffles, boo-boos, broken arms, colds and flu, etc etc.???

It's been said that a public option would "inject some competition" into health insurance and would keep the insurance companies "honest."

Folks, there are nearly 1,300 DIFFERENT health plans in the country right now (meaning 1,300 different companies proving healthcare plans... source: America's Health Insurance Plans, Washington D.C.). This is probably one of the MOST COMPETITIVE sectors of the entire free market today.

Don't believe the hype that is designed to scare you into "gratefully" accepting socialism.

renny
"NO GOVERNMENT ANYTHING IS SUCCESSFUL.

The Post Office lost a billion in 2008 and has just lost another billion in the first half of this year."

I'm so glad that privately run companies are doing so much better!!

Perhaps we should turn health care over to Fannie May, or Washington Mutual. Or maybe one of the thousands of companies that have folded or Merged, like Northwest Airlines.

It's clear that GM would do great at running health care as a not-for-profit institution.

You know what? My post office is still standing and my mail gets delivered every day. However, my airlines, three local department stores, one private medical care clinic (for profit) and three banks are dead in the water.

I'll vote for the people who can keep stuff afloat in the worst of times.



Eddie Too
"Will Sonia Sotomayor protect us from the pseudo-elite power mongers."


What's a "pseudo-elite" power monger? What's "pseudo elite"?

What definition of "elite" are you using these days?

Declaration Of War On The Middle Class
As expected, the House bill would mandate that individuals and families have or buy health insurance.

But what if they don’t buy it?

Then Section 401 kicks in. Any individual (or family) that does not have health insurance would have to pay a new tax, roughly equal to the smaller of 2.5% of your income or the cost of a health insurance plan. …

I assume the bill authors would respond, “But why wouldn’t you want insurance? After all, we’re subsidizing it for everyone up to 400% of the poverty line.”

That is true. But if you’re a single person with income of $44,000 or higher, then you’re above 400% of the poverty line. You would not be subsidized, but would face the punitive tax if you didn’t get health insurance. This bill leaves an important gap between the subsidies and the cost of health insurance. CBO says that for about eight million people, that gap is too big to close, and they would get stuck paying higher taxes and still without health insurance.

The Post notes that the “surtax” would apply to about 2.1 million Americans. The mandate for coverage will force almost four times as many middle-class Americans to pay higher taxes as a result of the ObamaCare plan in the House while preventing them from getting coverage. The House hasn’t soaked the rich; they’ve declared war on the middle class and the uninsured.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/0 7/14/AR2009071403709.html?wprss=rss_politics

Earth to Mars
Your post office is still standing because it does not have to be profitable to keep standing. Politicians and government hacks can borrow from social security and medicare ponzi schemes, raise taxes on you and me, or create money out of thin air via the Fed to make sure that your post office stays afloat.

The fact that some airlines, car companies and banks go under is not evidence that the free markets are deficient. Business failures are a necessary part of capitalism. What is not necessary is government intervention in these businesses -- which is the primary cause for most of the failures.

my letter to Dr. NO

Here is my letter to Dr. NO, Senator Coburn from Okla.

Dr. Coburn,

If citizens and the Congress insist that there be a single-payer health plan, here is an idea that should be looked at. This is page one, of a 5,000 page document, but it must start somewhere.

I’ve talked to several doctors and pharmacists and to economists, PhDs and others, and they all think it sounds great.

Health care would be free to all, except all would pay taxes and a co-pay, rather than for health care insurance.

The way to reduce Health Care costs is simple. Just eliminate all insurance companies, their buildings, computers, and employees, and get rid of all Government health care employees. That would also eliminate the people in each and every doctor’s office and hospital, who spend their day filling out insurance forms.

I understand that there is a list of the procedures and the cost of each, for various parts of the Country.

Give every qualified doctor, hospital, and pharmacy a blank checkbook so they could write a check each evening for all the services they had provided that day.

Find the right line on every income tax form, multiply that number by a percentage that would equal the total cost of health care. Based on that number, issue a card that would tell the co-pay (a progressive number, based on income). No one would get in for free, with maybe at least a dollar for those who can prove they had little or no income.

Just hire a bunch of auditors to randomly check and made sure they aren’t stealing any more than is being stolen today. And on and on.

And I bet the cost would be cut in half.

Health costs in this country are so high because these days, a $5,000 funeral, is delayed by a much more expensive medical procedure.

Those costs could be reduced if the doctor was not permitted to use a medical procedure, or prescribe a pill that the patient can not pronounce.

St. Denis
"The House hasn’t soaked the rich; they’ve declared war on the middle class and the uninsured."

Yeah, because we all know that the middle class has such an easy time getting adequate medical care without insurance, especially when they are single. Got a mortgage? School loan debt? Breast Cancer? No problem!!!

I hate pedestrian, hackneyed terms like "war on the middle class" and I hate the morons who rely on them to make what should be a simple point.

Why do cons insist on making every argument sound like they are reading from a cliche dictionary?

You forgot to include "psuedo-elitist," like Eddie.



Statists are evil
Their plot is evil. They have advanced skills in deception and underhandedness.

Mars

I will concur in the usage of the adage, "War on..."; perhaps, I should have written:

Remember when Obama said continuously that "No one making less than $250,000 a year would pay one more dime in taxes? Well, that was then and this is now. So, forget about it."

A single person making $44,000, which I wouldn't even consider to be "Middle Class", would have to make a choice between: #1) no insurance, with higher taxation, or #2) get expensive health insurance and still pay higher taxes.

Trust me, you will be paying higher taxes. According to the WH, the budget deficit for this year will be ~$1.9tn and the Chinese will not loan us any more money, unless and until we get our financial house in order.


War or Contigency Operation? Who cares? After all, the War on Poverty has been ongoing for 4 decades. Borrowing a riff from Sen. Harry Reid, "t(hat) war is lost."

watching from Mars
do not bow down to men or women that believe they are gods. Do not take a barcode upon your person to buy and sell. Not even for a crumb of bread.

Since you are new to the planet.

We are potentially putting into the
hands of Sierra Club, population bomb Communist wackoes the power over birth control. At any point our glorious dictator could decide the government can only afford to pay for 2 children per household. Abortion of course will be unlimited.

Mars
I would like to point out that FedEx and UPS are quite successful, though they are not allowed to deliver first-class mail.

Their shipments move more quickly than those of the post office, arrive in better condition, and never get "lost in the mail"--AND they earn profits! Oops, that dirty word again.

You want those same benevolent buffoons who are pushing crap and tax, who refuse to "drill here, drill now," who forced the auto company's SECURED bondholders to take a back seat to Big Union, and who forced banks to lower their lending standards so that "the poor" (and unqualified) might "own" their own homes to now take over your health care. Well, not your "health care," per se, just the "paying the providers" part of it.

When government, single-payer health care proves unsustainable and doctors retire, pharmaceutical companies cease their research, and YOU are denied treatment because you're just not worth it, I'm sure it will all be Bush's fault.

SIGNS OF WARNING, SIGNS OF DOOM
On April 3rd during his speech at Strasboug, France Obama's teleprompter malfunctioned when he came to the word "equality." Now 14 weeks later in Washington DC Obama's teleprompter screen crashes to the ground shattering in pieces just as he comes to the word "economy." "Equality" "economy" put these words together and we get the cause of Obama's failing policies.

Click my name and read my piece: Observations and Comments on Obama's Teleprompter Disaster.

Stossel
you are correct. If you stop taking medication for your heart and seeing a doctor you will save your insurance company money. If you die at home of heart attack it will cost them nothing. Why would the government want you to live a long life if you are in need of daily healthcare especially if you are no longer making money for them. After all if you stay around to collect Social Security then what? You are costing the tax payers therefor our glorious dictator mucho dinero. To me this means we are giving our government a motive for murder. Withholding medical attention will be the same as murder.

Don't tell me the poor are not recieving medical treatment. My sister lost her job and insurance she is penniless and is recieving the best medical care right now.

Polly - On ''the poor'' owning homes
--
In her justified litany against "Liberals" and their distortion of the American economy, Polly unnecessarily snipes at "'the poor' (and unqualified)" being afforded the credit sufficient to purchase homes.

As if "the poor" were culprits.

Not so.

Look at housing as a commodity, and you'll see that "the poor" have been deliberately screwed by government.

Viciously, as a matter of fact.

At all levels (but especially at the local and state levels), government officers have had an incentive to keep housing costs high.

High real estate property valuations - even when those valuations are artificially and unsustainably bloated - translate into high tax revenues.

Real low-cost housing - homes that "the poor" can afford to buy - has been fought, tooth and nail, by government officers for decades. Zoning and building codes are the weapons of choice.

Technological advances over the past seventy years have made it possible to create and maintain livable, resource-efficient homes that "the poor" can afford.

What's more, these same advances have made it possible for middle-class people - who aren't "the poor" and who have savings they'd like to invest - to create rental properties in which "the poor" can even more reliably afford to make their homes.

But government officers - wanting to squeeze the maximum in real estate taxes out of their victims - don't want such inexpensive housing to be built in their jurisdictions, and they fight like hell (very effectively) to prevent these technologies from being exploited.

The solution?

Deprive governments of the power to set zoning or building codes.

Hell, deprive government of power, period.

Government fostering competition...
--
...is just a wee bit too damned much like Hugh Heffner fostering sexual abstinence.

John Stossel for President.

"At least he's got a legitimate birth certificate."

Competition is good.

Competition drives down prices.

Competition reduces waste, fraud and abuse.

Competition drives cost reductions.

Competition drives better service.

Competition spurs inovation.

Competition spurs creativity.

The only people who could possibly oppose competition is that "sub class" of humans who lack the ability to survive in a competative enviorment.

We call them Liberals.

Watching from Mars
Dude, you live in freaking Illinois... OF COURSE businesses are failing there. They've been failing there for the better part of 40 years now... as the unions rose up in such incredible power they (and their sycophantic puppets in Springfield) have managed to push every prosperous business out of the state.

One would have to be a fool to open or relocate a business in Illinois.

As an Illinois resident, if you want employment, be prepared to rent a U-Haul and move out of state.

Read my lips... Illinois will NEVER recover. It's a toxic economic wasteland with a very, very hostile workforce. The fact that Caterpillar is STILL HQ'd in Peoria is staggering... Stockholm Syndrome is the only explanation I can figure.

When Illinoisians get tired of eating dirt (and the loads of horse-sh*t shoveled by their Dem politicians) and actually throw off the shackles of Illinois-socialism, ONLY THEN, will that state begin to recover. Until then, it is literally the land that time forgot.

When the fracturing of America finally comes to pass, Illinois will be our Bulgaria (the Soviet-era Bulgaria)

Lon
Of course the public option would be self-supporting, right up until government mismanagement caused it to start hemmorhaging money and thus running up huge deficits. On the heels of that would come a speech from Obama on how the program "that provides healthcare to millions of Americans" is "too big to fail" and thus needs a bailout courtesy of the taxpayer.

Your thoughts?

Freedom
Do you have more freedom when someone is taking care of you, or do you have more freedom when you take care of yourself? Do you have more freedom when government takes care of you, or do you have more freedom when you are able to take care of yourself?

Let's have Congress try this program out
The Democrats are trying to kill two birds with one stone. Revise healthcare and "fix" social security.

Let start with Social Security. Congress cannot say it is broken because that would mean they would have to admit they made a mistake. If congress graps healthcare, they can choose who gets care and who doesn't. They can eliminate healthcare for all between the ages of 60 and 69. The people in this bucket would die much faster and then there would be money for healthcare and for social security and voila, the Dem's have saved the day.

Stupid Statists!
Statists all share a coomon trait.It is borderline personality disorder.Narcissism and low self esteem are ALWAYS in the mix.

They feel a need to validate their beliefs by inflicting them upon the masses! That's because the two basic traits of their disorder contradict each other. Their narcissism tells them that they know best. Their low self esteem constantly seeks validation of their beliefs.

It's an insane combination that spells disaster for everyone that comes under their influence.

We have a statist President who fooled a lot of really non-thinking people into voting for his HOPE and CHANGE!

I shop in a Banana Republic. I do NOT want to live in one.

government
We will only get a good health care system when it is also the plan that our government has to use.

Wrong target again...
Mandatory insurance (with mandates originating in the states) is the primary cause of skyrocketing health care costs.

Here is the insurance industry with mandated malpractice insurance for medical professionals, and also delivering health insurance to their patients/opponents.

The introduction of deep pockets into every single medical transaction and dispute is why health care is so expensive.

Whenever something is wrong with the economy or government, the first thing to look for is government intervention that caused the problem. In the case of medical costs, it is insurance, with trial lawyers milking the system for all it is worth, and driving up all associated costs.

The best solution is to get with your state governments and repeal all laws mandating insurance. All, including automobile insurance. All mandates destroy the naturally occurring free market mechanisms that sustain optimum efficiency between cost, profit and quality.

Write to you newspapers and legislators to oppose this nationalizing of health care. It will result in more death than the Middle East wars and terror attacks combined.

Best regards,
Gail S
http://backyardfence.wordpress.com

Non-profits the solution? Check Hawaii
If the solution to our so-called national health-care crisis were government-mandated health insurance provided in large part by non-profit insurance cooperatives, then Hawaii should have the best system in the country. The state mandates employer-provided health insurance, and the industry is dominated by HMSA, a non-profit health insurer. So why are the local hospitals struggling (two on Oahu have filed for bankruptcy) and local, especially rural, doctors leaving our communities? Because without real competition, the dominant payors -- HMSA, MediCare and Medicaid -- can set the reimbursement rates. They keep medical costs down through reduced payments to the providers. The result? Doctors leave for states where reimbursement rates are higher relative to the cost-of-living, and the local hospitals teeter on the financial edge, depending heavily on donors to stay afloat.

Why our system is like it is--
Something I have not seen mentioned in any of the comments about this subject is this. Health care is already one of the most highly regulated activities in the American economy. New hospitals cannot be built, and current hospitals cannot start a new service such as MRIs or heart surgery, without permission from the regional health authority. This is intentionally to prevent medical facilities from competing with one another. It came from the old 1930s idea that competition was inefficient and duplicative. No one who talks about this seems to be aware of our current system’s origins. I know this because my wife is an M.D. and has a Masters in public health. Our house is full of books on this subject.

Reduce the cost

Health costs could be reduced if the doctor did not prescribe a medical procedure or a pill that the patient can not pronounce.

Health costs in this country are so high, because a $5,000 funeral is delayed by an expensive medical procedure.

Ken
Yeah, Ken, how about that? "Competition leads to better products/goods/services and lower prices?"


Gosh, whodathunk?

Socialized Medicine Is SICKO! 2
UK: "Thousands of rheumatoid arthritis sufferers face a lifetime of agony because they are not being treated quickly enough, a report says. Guidelines state that patients should receive treatment within three months of the first symptoms appearing. But the average wait is nine months - and GPs are not trained well enough to know what help to offer."

Read more:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1199714/A-9-month -wait-arthritis-treatment-Delay-mean-lifetime-agony-victims .html#ixzz0LMJJs4W1&C


Also see: Anything on the NHS & the NICE Board, especially on macular degeneration, breast and stomach cancer drugs, hospital conditions, the scarcity of specialists, and more.

Ireland: "“Until recently, patients were waiting many months or years to see a specialist and then had to endure a further long wait for surgery. This was unacceptable and had to change. Excellent progress has been made over the last two years and now no patient is waiting more than six months for an outpatient assessment or for surgery."


http://www.northernireland.gov.uk/news/news-dhssps/news-dhs sps-june-2007/news-dhssps-200607-new-orthopaedic-icats.htm


Canada: Patients wait up to 36 hours in the ER before seeing any medical personnel.

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/Health/Wait+average+hours+un lucky+patients/1389466/story.html

True Problem in Health care
I agree but disagree. I have a major problem with socialized medicine but for health care to work currently there are two problems with deregulation. One big pharmaceuticals need to have a leash put on them. Pharmaceutical companies are businesses also but who must balance their right to make a profit and what is best for your health and our country. The problem with expecting the invisible hand to work in this market is that people are not informed consumers. The only education they receive about medication is the sales pitch that drug ads give them.
Every one should be informed consumers. Drugs can save lives, but FDA needs to do they job instead of continuing to be cozy with big Pharma. Putting more money into the pot and socializing health care isn't going to be the answer. Please watch the following youtube video to know what I mean. The following sets of videos will help make you a smart consumer since most of your doctors are not looking out for your best interest when they prescribe a drug


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obU9J2wETuA

Convenient
Anna in Texas,
You forgot to "clarify" the 75 dollar Tylenol tablets.
I personally know of doctors consorting with labs.
Why didn't republicans address health care costs while they were in the majority? What are the chances that competician will be promoted now that dems hold the majority?

A PSA
As a Public Service Announcement I would just like to remind everyone that even though congress debates health care reform under a guise of legitimacy, they are in fact engaging in criminal conspiracy, as they have no legal authority to tell any private business how to conduct their business. Any so called law passed in DEFIANCE of the US constitution which DENIES congress the authority to regulate private business(es)is null, void and of no effect.
Any individual or agency who seeks to impose on a business such regulations, regardless of "just doing his job", or "following the law", can be shown the door. Yes,I know, unfortunately a large percentage of the US has no clue to what is truly legal and what is not, and thus to actually act legally and affirm or assert ones natural rights is seen as defying the "government" making such assertion seen as rebellious or law breaking and so not supported or even raising the ire of what should be an outraged citizenry. Nonetheless, I encourage all to not fall into the trap of believing a false narrative that says the government is allowed to define its authority and reach. ARTICLE 1, SECTION 8 IS WHAT CONGRESS IS ALLOWED TO DO, NO MORE!!!!!!!!!! So it is my authority, and your authority which is being defied by congress in attempting to enact health care legislation.

Joshua in MO
"One big pharmaceuticals need to have a leash put on them. Pharmaceutical companies are businesses also but who must balance their right to make a profit and what is best for your health and our country."

"Drugs can save lives, but FDA needs to do they job instead of continuing to be cozy with big Pharma."

OK, your use of the term 'Big Pharma' belies your objectivity. There are other considerations also. First, what does it cost to develop a drug? How much of the profits are poured back into R&D? Why do the pharmaceutical companies have a patriotic duty to sacrifice their profits? If they are forced to, what keeps them in the US? What is best for the health of America is to let the pharmaceutical companies continue to develop the medications they do right here in the US.

On the other hand, if we can get the same drugs cheaper in Canada, I think we should be allowed to. The Medicare prescription drug benefit (mistake, but just try getting rid of it) should have the same negotiations for drug prices that the VA pharmacies have.

The Doctor's Tax

The House version of ObamaCare plans to levy a surtax on individuals earning the highest incomes in America to defray the costs of “reform”. Who would those people be? The Bureau of Labor Statistics has data from May 2008 available on its site on MEAN incomes of all professions in the US, fortunately downloadable in spreadsheet form. After entertainers and athletes, which professions earn the highest mean annual salaries — and will likely have to contribute most to the surtax? Here are the top 15:

#1. Surgeons
#2. Anesthesiologists
#3. Orthodontists
#4. Obstetricians and gynecologists
#5. Oral and maxillofacial surgeons
#6. Internists, general
#7. Prosthodontists
#8. Physicians and surgeons, all other
#9. Family and general practitioners
#10. Chief executives
#11. Dentists, general
#12. Psychiatrists
#13. Pediatricians, general
#14. Dentists, all other specialists
#15. Podiatrists

Notice a pattern here? Fourteen of the top 15 positions (again, after entertainers and athletes, for which the BLS gives no mean annual income) come from the health-care field. Only CEOs break the pattern, coming in at #10, which might surprise some class-warriors. Lawyers come in at #16, by the way.

Now, this data may make some people say, “Well, great! Doctors make too much money anyway!” However, this also shows that we have a system that compensates the actual providers of health care at a rate which keeps supply at a point where we don’t have to worry about waiting a year for a surgery we need or whether a dentist even works anywhere near where we live. Penalizing the actual providers of medical care means less incentive for the straight-A students to enter the field, which will curtail supply at a point where demand will skyrocket, thanks to the suddenly cost-free basis for people to seek it. That’s exactly the trap into which other single-payer systems have fallen.

Free Health Care/ Income tax rates/Costs
Income tax rates we paid (making under $60K) in Canada, Germany, & England: 48% 54% and 52%. The other property/VAT/other taxes were on top of that rate!
And we had to purchase private health insurance in England in order to not wait six months for appointments.

Comparative Effectiveness Research
Michael Barone - Chaos on Capital Hill:

He wrote that "they" have put into the stimulus bill, funding for COMPARATIVE EFFECTIVENESS REASEARCH'

They want to know what treatmens are medically and cost effective!

Do any of you have mothers from the 50's and 60's whom you love? Better say goodbye now. There may not be time when the Health Bill is passed.

As for me - I helped make the baby boom so, tomorrow I'll go and pick my casket.

Bye - y'all!

jim
"Reduce the cost

Health costs could be reduced if the doctor did not prescribe a medical procedure or a pill that the patient can not pronounce."

So the cost of the procedure or medicine is directly proportionat to whether someone can pronounce? So your solution is to rename them? Amazing.

"Health costs in this country are so high, because a $5,000 funeral is delayed by an expensive medical procedure."

The costs of funerals are affecting medical costs also?

So, in summery, if the costs of funerals were brought down, and medical procedures and and medicine were easier to pronounce, the cost of health care would go down.

How government prevents competition
Stossel is right! Thanks for a great article. To follow up, consider how government prevents competition and cause health care to be more expensive:

The Feds prevent individuals/employers from purchasing health insurance across state lines.

The FDA drives up drug prices via requirements that are very costly (to the advantage of the drug companies)

\State governments mandate conditions that must be covered by health insurance

Goverment mandates that people showing up at emergency rooms must be treated regardless if they pay, or are even illegal aliens

Government covers many people (Medicare, Medicaid, CHIP and others) who would not otherwise try to obtain services, driving up demand but not supply (and paying over 50% of the money spent on health care)

Goverment laws giving the AMA a monopoly on the licensing of doctors

Government laws against freedom of contract so you can't agree to not sue your doctor in the event of a possible adverse outcome (which reward attorneys and the politicians they support)

FDA prohibitions against procedures that are approved in foreign countries but aren't approved by the FDA

Mandating what government will pay for Medicaid/Medicare patients, causing providers to shift costs to non-government patients

I could go on, but that's enough. Now they want to take over health care for a problem they caused.


Lets let the government run everything
The problem is once the government takes over an industry there is no recourse for dissatisfaction over the service. There is no one responsible in the end if the job is not done right. Heart surgury, brain surgury. Do you want the same level of care to your body as the government takes care of roads for example.

Ron
Heart surgery, brain surgery combined with "close enough for government work" and we have a real scary situation on our hands.
Lets not forget how the gov't operates with the endless number of days off for employees: personal days, birthdays. Then there is maternity leave, leave to take care of a sick elderly parent, school functions, pet care, all the holidays and we haven't even talked about the generous amount of vacation days.
When and how will vital and emergency decisions be made when the healthcare professional is on hold or waiting for a call back?
More people will be hired to cover for the leave takers and vacationers. More contracts will be put out for bid for numerous services that government will be unable to accomodate. This is the makings of a nightmare, not to mention skyrocketing costs, not reductions in healthcare expenses.

John you have the clout...
to get someone, anyone, in Congress to write in a law that states that if this healthcare passage is passed, it is passed for all Americans, including of course members of Congress too and the Obama's...all Americans. Let's see if that works as well!

Free Market Quagmire
John, John where is your compassion, Oh yea I remember followers of Mammon don’t feel compassion they feel their Gold. So John's solution is to deregulate and let the free market work. Ha Ha Ha ,oh John we tried that on Wall Street with the Banks and we got 401K sucker bets and the Meltdownbailout Blues. What we need is a single payer system where everyone and everything is covered. We do it because we are compassionate and because we are not followers of Mammon’s ways but of Higher moral values .
Another thing John our Constitution starts with the sentence “ We The People… “. We are the State, The United States of America . It is our government and in the Preamble which is Americas Mission Statement it call for our government to “… promote the general welfare…”. It is within our power as a People to take care of each other. We can’t leave it up to Insurance Corporations were in their mess now. The “Don’t take away Medicare” folks love their Medicare. I say lets extend it to everyone and cover everything.

Competition is the American Way
The current Healthcare System is a fine example of what happens when you have unmitigated competition: You end with just a few companies that work together to keep prices high, and service becomes pointless -- what can consumers do? Who can they appeal to and where can they go?
We are founded on the (often sited by the right wing) the right to pursue life, liberty and happiness. How happy can you be if you can't afford healthcare and the inevitable time comes when you need medical care? 46 million Americans are in that place right now, and some will give up their lives to the for-profit healthcare industry's dedication to its bottom line.
Healthcare shouldn't be a profit center -- its an essential need for a quality, modern life. I think the right wing wouldn't mind returning to times when our lifespans were far shorter -- because people died all the time of illnesses that we now know how to cure. Check the 20th Century: according to the CDC, the average U.S. lifespan increased by more than 30 years; 25 years of which can be attributed to advances in public health.
After all, its only profitable to insure healthy people, so the industry has a fiduciary duty to its shareholders to accept such clients. Then kick them out when they need care, let them die if that's what God wants. He would have provided insurance if they were worthy, right?
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