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Wednesday, April 15, 2009
John Stossel :: Townhall.com Columnist
Simplify the Rules
by John Stossel
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Will the Dems' health care Christmas Present to America be an improvement or detriment to our health care system?


The Obama administration says it will propose immigration reform next month.

I wonder what they'll do.

As a libertarian, I'm for open borders. But America has become a welfare state, and as Milton Friedman pointed out, you can't have open borders and a welfare state. Terrorism provides another reason. We can't have open borders when some people want to kill us.

So what should be done?

"Put troops with guns here." Says Robert "Little Dog" Crooks, a self-appointed border policeman. Crooks leads the Mountain Minutemen, a vigilante group that tries to keep illegals from entering America.

"These borders have to be secured. We're at war," he told me on my ABC special "Bailouts and Bull.

Congress decided that the best way to protect America is to build an expensive fence. When complete later this year, it will extend 670 miles along the Mexican border. But the fence won't stop the illegals. After all, the border is thousands of miles long.

"The smart smuggler's ain't gonna go to where the high security's at," Crooks points out.

We watched as he walked through an unguarded tunnel into Mexico and back.

"Where's the Department of Homeland Security? Hello! Anybody here?"

The fence does make it a little harder for some illegals to cross, but San Diego Border Patrol Chief Michael Fisher acknowledges that they still get past the fence. Some climb over the fence. We found dozens of abandoned ladders near the fence. One group of illegals even built a ramp to bring a truck across.

They also cut holes in the fences. It doesn't matter how high a fence is if you can cut right through it. The place I visited had holes every few feet.

So despite all your tax dollars spent, there's no evidence the fence has reduced the number of illegals who cross. A survey of thousands who came to the U.S.-Mexico border to sneak into America found that nine out of 10 did enter eventually.

Even if we built an impenetrable fence, it would only solve part of the problem. Half of America's undocumented migrants didn't sneak in. They came here legally and overstayed a tourist or student visa. The 9/11 terrorists did that. A fence wouldn't have had any effect on them.

"I don't know how anybody can't see that this stupid fence is a waste of money," says Drew Carey, the comedian and television host who recently woke up to the benefits of liberty and volunteered to host segments of Reason TV on the Web. He has a theory for why America has built a wall.

"Contractors get money from the politicians that they've donated to, and politicians get to say, 'I'm getting tough.'"

Politicians do like acting tough. U.S. Rep. Steve King, R-Iowa, wants the fence electrified. "We do that with livestock all the time," King says.

Need I point out that Mexicans are not livestock?

Which brings me to ask: If it's good to wall off America, why just one-third of the Mexican border? What about our northern border? Last year, more Middle Eastern nationals were caught crossing illegally from Canada than from Mexico. And if we were to wall off Canada, we'd still have miles of East- and West Coast beaches. Should we put machine guns there?

"Don't be silly. Nobody's ever suggested doing anything mean," former presidential candidate and congressman Duncan Hunter told me. He brags that he "built" the fence in San Diego. "I think the message is this, John, if you want to come into the United States, which has the biggest front door in the world, you gotta knock on the front door."

But, Drew Carey notes, America doesn't make it easy to knock.

"It's so hard to get a guest-worker permit. There's so many red-tape hoops you have to jump through. It's easier to sneak across the border. ... It should be: If you want a job, you can come here and work."

I agree. Most migrants do want to come here to work. They take jobs few Americans want to do. They pay taxes. Many become good citizens. We should make it easier for them to do that, legally.

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About The Author
John Stossel blogs at http://blogs.abcnews.com/johnstossel/ is an award-winning news correspondent and author of Myths, Lies, and Downright Stupidity: Get Out the Shovel--Why Everything You Know is Wrong.
 
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To John Stossel:
I'm not sure that libertarians are for open borders. Reason magazine certainly is, but I don't know if Reason speaks for all libertarians. Reason also takes no position on the Pro-Choice vs. Pro-Life controversy, even though Pro-Choice would be the obvious libertarian position.

Drastic problem demands drastic solution
1. Eliminate welfare programs--period; if Americans can't stomach that, at least use some common sense when it comes to dispensing govt goodies--like for citizens only! As Stossel pointed out, we can't have open-borders AND a welfare state.
2. Consider anyone trying to cross the border at unauthorized points to be a dangerous invader subject to being shot on site.
3. Don't deport illegals--sentence them to death and confiscate any property they have.
4. Stop the IDIOTIC practice of mandated multi-lingualism! Private folks can speak/advertise/etc in whatever language they want, but the govt should cease printing official documents in anything but English, and cease mandating that ANY person/business must cater to non-English speakers.

Simple

THE Solution
As long as individuals and companies benefit from circumventing the law by hiring illegal aliens, the illegal aliens will continue to come. Only by targeting these criminals (the employers) and eliminating the demand will the problem be solved. I do not know if the Oklahoma law is still in effect, but I saw a sob story about an illegal family who were moving back to Mexico. (Boo f'n Hoo) Oklahoma passed a law targeting employers. Thus the demand for illegals evaporated. The poor family with a teenage daughter couldn't find work. The poor little ILLEGAL girl couldn't suck up the limited tax-payer money from hard working LEGAL workers at the public school anymore. And her dream of wasting even more tax-payer money at college was destroyed. GOD I hope this law still stands AND spreads to other States.

The Fence
No one thinks that a fence will stop illegal immigration. As this article points out, there are many ways to circumvent it. The roll of an obstacle is to increase the difficulty of moving through it. Thus people are likely to go to other areas. The obstacle also decreases the number of personnel required to secure an area. These are the reason to erect the fence. Less resources are needed to patrol the fenced areas. And resources can then be concentrated to areas where people are routed. Each increases the effectiveness of boarder security.

The LIE
"They take jobs few Americans want to do"

Many American who do not have jobs want jobs and would do these jobs too. However, given the choice of getting paid to sitting on their fats A$ $es or do hard work means that American will sit on their A$ $es. We have millions on welfare who are more that able to do the f'n work!! But why work when you don't have too.

Then the other part of the lie, maybe the offered wages for the job are too low. Why pay the going market rate if you have a source of ILLEGAL workers to undercut the market. The following saying IS true. Everyone has their price.

Bushs Fence
Anyone notice that Bush made sure to relocate to a GATED community in Dallas......and yet he opposed a fence for the country. Just one more irony proving the elitist class believes in some rights for them and none for the rest of us!

Open borders would be possible
IF we do away with the public benefits offered to anyone who is not a citizen. Or if we did away with them altogether. Further, we ought to insist that children born here of immigrants who have fealty to another country are citizens of their parent's country. Simple solutions that no one in Congress has the cajones to propose because they live in fear of the loss of large voting blocks. In this case it is the Congress who are the rebels and traitors.

Enough already!
It is probably too late to prevent this country from becoming a third world nation. With 4 milllion anchor babies in the past year...mostly from Mexico...and all probably on some kind of welfare ...this country is finished. Why this idiot Stossel can't see that is probably because he is still a liberal media establishment shill. Yeah the fence doesn't work completely...what does work completely???? With the current socialist agenda lok forward to a country like Mexico with even more corruption and wasteful spending than we now have, plus a degradation of our educational system even more. California is F*cked but serves to show what the rest of this nation will soon become thanks to self serving politicans and shills like Stossel.If you don't already know Spanish you better learn fast because they are the favord class from now and in the future.....Anyone know a country that favors enforcement of the rule of law?...cuz this one no longer does!

Real Change
What we're really talking about is getting back to the basics..the things this country really stands for.

I read a GREAT piece on this today. Check it out.

http://robbymoeller.blogspot.com/2009/04/first-things-first .html

illegal immigration
I agree with you! Simplify the rules. We can't have immigration and a welfare state - let's make it simple for immigrants to start paying taxes. Building fences is ridiculous-make it easier to get green cards, social security numbers. Make it profitable and simple for employers to keep their workforce legal.

Garry Greenwood
"The libertarians have always advocated open borders. I have an idea. Why don't we put illegal aliens on HIS street and HIS neighborhood. Let HIS local property taxes go up to pay for their welfare payments and healthcare costs. Let HIM walk into the local hardware store and find out nobody in there speaks English."
As usual with non-Libertarians, you don't know the whole picture. Yes, we do advocate open borders. But if the ENTIRE Libertarian policy were put into place, the problems you speak of wouldn't exist. In a Libertarian society, you wouldn't have to worry about illegals sucking up all the welfare, because there wouldn't be any. Healthcare? A Libertarian government wouldn't be paying for it. There wouldn't be jobs that "Americans won't do" if there were no welfare. If you have to work to eat and put a roof over your head, you'll work. But if welfare pays as good as, if not better than, picking lettuce, why would you?

Luv Ya John, But Not on This One
I actually agree with Stossell's analysis of the fence -- I'd much rather those funds go towards workplace enforcement. Eliminating jobs and the incentive to come here is the key rather than erecting barriers.

But then he had to throw in those last couple of paragaraphs and ruin what otherwise would have been a decent article (which was basically copied and pasted from one of his recent specials). He basically ignores what he previously said about the incompatibility of immigration and the welfare state.

Bottom line -- times are far different than they were during the earlier waves of immigration. We don't need massive waves of 3rd world immigrants into this country -- legal or illegal.

Illegals are criminals
I emigrated to this country LEGALLY, having doted all the I's and crossed all the T's, and paid the required fees, and waited for permission to enter this country. I had to have enough money in my bank account to show that I would not be dependent on the government, and I had to have a career that would benefit this country, plus I had to be healthy: no HIV or syphilis or TB . ANYBODY who wants to move here needs to do it legally, and abide by the immigration laws. Those who come here Illegally do so because they know they will not pass the requisite process. Ill health, no job and criminal history can be found in many of those people who sneak in to this country under the cover of darkness. It's said that Illegals will do the jobs that Americans don't want to do. They are also taking health care away from citizens who need it by bankrupting hospitals (particularly in the western states), they are draining the education system of funds that would be spent on children who are citizens or legal immigrants. They are committing crimes by using fake or stolen SS numbers, many drive without a license and the inability to read English. They are causing problems that are far worse than the insipid defense of "they are working the jobs that Americans don't want". There are many Americans in this country who would like to work, but get bypassed because illegal workers are cheaper to hire and are defenseless against unscrupulous employers - because they are illegal and can not complain.
Amnesty is a travesty. Why not give all criminals amnesty and empty the prisons, after all they broke state and federal laws too! To give Illegal aliens amnesty for breaking state and federal laws is discriminating against prison inmates.

moonkeeper
since you are from NJ the odds are quite high that you are an illegal. Your simplistic system does not control or regulate illegal immigration , it merely converts it to legal immigration. So why don't we just stamp the backs of their hands???
Duh!!!

Tell Congress NO AMNESTY for illegals!
Follow the link and send a personalized message to your members of Congress.

Tell them you oppose amnesty for illegal aliens.

Tell them NO AMNESTY

http://www.conservativeoutpost.com/campaign/stop_amnesty

Semper Libertas
"Then the people trying to sneak in are not only easier to catch (because there's fewer of them) but it's more obvious that they are NOT coming here for jobs."

What method will you use? Fence? Surveillance? Armed unmanned aerial vehicles?


Jobs Americans won't do???
I'm so tired of the argument that Illegals do the jobs most Americans won't do. That's false rhetoric. I live in Denver where we have an abundance of illegals and my brother-in-law lives in LA. We spent a week in Rochester, NY and it took us a couple of days to figure out what was different. There were no hispanic people. Now I can't imagine that no-one in upstate NY can get their bathrooms cleaned, or their sheets laundered, or their trash picked up. Or that the farms have no help available. Why is it that we think that just because there is a large population of illegals in our Southwestern states, that 75% of the rest of the country doesn't have those same jobs that "no American wants to do"?

It's funny how . . .
that when one of the meat packing plants was raided for "illegal aliens" (oops, I mean "undocumented workers") AMERICANS (about 750) lined up to take the jobs (that Americans wouldn't do).

I usually agree with stossel . . .
but not this time. If we had true "free trade" and not "managed trade" a workable solution could be implemented.
European and asian countries keep out our products by using "value added tax" rebates for their manufacturers while imposing "value added taxes" on imports.
A tit-for-tat response would work. Before I hear the cries of smoot-hawley, it is the AMERICAN STANDARD of living that is being beat down by "foreign competition".
Japan requires EACH CAR imported to be individually "inspected". Japanese cars sold here get a "blanket certification". They submit each model for safety and emission testing and are allowed to sell as many as they want here. Could you imagine the hue and cry of the Japanese government if we "individually certified" cars?
Competition is one thing--it needs to be honest, NOT one-sided as we have today.

Rule are too complex
This is another example of government complexity creating a mess. The debate that says we need more govt. regulation vs. less regulation is the wrong debate. What we need is simple, straightforward, easy to understand rules. Make them fair, easy to follow and easy to enforce. How about a 10% flat tax? How about a simple immigration policy? How about a simple education policy that includes free choice?

Complexity is killing us. If we had simpler rules, we could have less government employees and maybe, God forbid, a balanced budget....

BS Article II
Illegal Immigration Issue: People, this issue is on par with our economic woes...and contributes to it as well. Get off your collective rears and light a fire under your lethargic law makers and INSIST on iron clad resolution to this no-brainer problem. Secure the borders first, NO AMNESTY, and E-Verify will go a long way in resolving this mess.

BS Article!
Another weak-kneed, mush for brains journalist!

I live in a large city north of the border in AZ and there is a huge spillover effect from this illegal immigrant rabble. Enlightened conservatives have been speaking to this issue for years, mostly to deaf ears. Illegal immigration is a HUGE fiscal burden on the Nation and that includes all other issues like the wide and disproportionate array of crimes committed. From jobs being taken away, to money being exported to their home country, to heavy reliance on social services like hospitals (e.g., lot of babies delivered at taxpayers’ expense), to subsidized education, to translation services, to free legal representation, to the costs associated with crime like more police presence, ID theft and false ID fabrication (forgery), vagrancy, drug running and distribution, near total disregard for traffic laws, kidnappings, rapes, thefts, assaults, muggings, murders, and on and on. They are serial scofflaws at the very least and criminals as a norm. Their moral code is certainly not compatible with ours. Add to all that is the danger of spreading communicable diseases. This is not to be taken lightly as an epidemic can be devastating as well as costly. The collective costs to society are mind boggling but their everyday behavior is also objectionable. They make no effort to learn English, have no sense of hygiene standards like not spewing their garbage all over the place, and they generally have a thug’s mentality. You get the sense that these people are here to invade the country and they are quietly fulminating that they can’t rob, rape, and pillage at will as if it was their due. Our legal system was not designed to address this kind of assault on the Nation. We must deal with this situation with real resolve; “take the kid gloves off”. Mexico must also take responsibility for the exodus and take appropriate measures.

Has Anyone Succeeded?
Has any country succeeded in trying to stop people from doing what they want to do?

Serious Problems with Status Quo
1. Too much of the discussion revolves around assimilation or lack thereof. We need to recognize that a lot of these people DON'T WANT to become Americans. They want to come here, do a job, then go back home.

The harder we make it to come here, the fewer of them go back home.

Even in the much vaunted immigration of the 19th century (before welfare, you might note), a sizable fraction of the immigrants came, did some work, made some money, then went back home.

2. There are an estimated 12 to 20 million illegals; most of those are from Mexico.

Only around 10 to 50 thousand green cards are alloted each year; most of those are to countries *other* than Mexico.

Do the math.

Kraut #17
You also served apprenticeships to learn carpentry and all those other CONSTRUCTION TRADES.

Joe
That's the libertarian answer. Unemployment is a phenomenon of regulation and minimum wage laws. The only unemployment that exists where regulation and wage laws are absent are those who chose to be unemployed for various reasons. I could chose to not work unless I get paid $2 million a year to be the president of Harvard, but I'll be unemployed for the rest of my life. A regulated business environment creates involuntary unemployment. If we stop taxing and regulating everyone, we'd have no problem swinging open the doors to anyone who wants to work because new jobs will be created for them to fill. Unutilized labor doesn't last long in a free market, only in a managed market (like the one America has been on for 100+ years).

Rich Not Wealthy
The wages "increase" because of wage laws, wage laws that have no business existing. Sure, there will be some increase as these individuals would no longer be afraid of repurcussions for not working at substandard wages, but they will still drive the wages down. More people = more supply + static demand = lower wages. This is what drove our immigration policy in the first place, unions complaining about foreigners (in South Park redneck voice) "taking our jobs". These same people still show up, still work, but we have to pay gobs of money on a failed immigration policy and wages are depressed even more because of it.

Yes, that worked wonders.

Simplified rules
1. Deport all illegals.
2, Shoot all who resist.
3. Bring back our troops from Europe, and give them the job of clearing out the ilegals and building the fence.

Stossel has not told the truth

Stossel claims the minutemen are a vigilante group. Really? Those type of groups commit violence to get their point across. Can Stossel cite a single instance of the minutemen committing violence? Just one?

The libertarians have always advocated open borders. I have an idea. Why don't we put illegal aliens on HIS street and HIS neighborhood. Let HIS local property taxes go up to pay for their welfare payments and healthcare costs. Let HIM walk into the local hardware store and find out nobody in there speaks English.

The open borders crowd is pathetic and irresponsible.

Justin, you would be right if only
the illegals weren't working under the table and that is why they take the jobs for less. If you made them legal and subject to the same system Americans are under, they would be paid about the same. That is what most of the pro-amnesty folks do not acknowledge. The wages will go up if they become legal! They can pay them less, even if they take out taxes simply by threatening them with a call to ICE.

Are you kidding me?
Give me your poor, your tired, your huddled masses, yearning to breathe free.
The wretched refuse of your teeming shores, Send these, the homeless, the tempest tossed to me.
I lift my lamp beside the Golden Door.

I believe that with all my heart. But nowhere does it say that we'll provide education, medical care, welfare, food stamps, etc. As Mr. Stossel so eloquently points out, you can't have open immigration and a welfare state.

Jobs and open borders
I find it hard to believe that with so many Americans out of work, some people in the government are pushing for less immigration enforcement and amnesty. I say if they are going to allow more non-US citizens to take or keep jobs in the US, then the government needs to go all out to create more jobs. Someone should offer a trade-off: relaxed immigration in exchange for elimination of capital gains and death taxes, lower corporate income taxes, and other incentives to start or expand a business.

but they still take jobs
"They take jobs few Americans want to do"

The problem is that we have become so soft and selective in the jobs we will take, that we don't want to do the jobs Americans have always held as entry level jobs. Possibly, with the economy doing what it is, Americans will see the value of doing jobs "Americans won't do."

Libertarians
Why is there no concern that illegal drugs flow into our country? The legalization of dope that is sponsored by the users, Libertarians and misguided souls like Stossel, fuel the problem.

Kraut
That's called capitalism. If someone is willing to do the same job as you, as well as you and do it for less than you, you deserve to lose your job. Either offer a better product or perform the work cheaper. Construction is not a pioneering industry, it is on the tail end of the capitalist structure. There isn't a huge demand for construction, there are a huge number of people capable of doing it, so the labor cost will be low. High paying jobs don't exist in low skill industries, saturated industries or industries with large labor pools. Construction happens to fit all three to a T. Same with manufacturing. Apart from the guy designing the automated machines or new products, there is no reason why we should pay top dollar at manufacturing firms. Anyone can do the job, so it's safe to say the job isn't worth a lot of money.

You can't have all the best parts of capitalism and ignore the downsides. Every system has a downside, capitalism's downside is that high wages don't exist for very long. The upsides are new products, new innovations and the fact that prices don't stay high for long either. Absolute wages are meaningless anyway, all that matters is you're able to buy just as much or more with your salary next year than last year. Dropping wages doesn't necessarily mean you can afford less, this is only a problem when we allow a central bank (Federal Reserve in our case) to constantly inflate the money supply or a government to stifle competition through regulation and minimum wage laws.

Replies 12-14 and Stossel
have the right idea. Milton Friedman rightly praised the immigration of the 19th century. Those immigrants came for opportunity, not welfare, they made tremendous contributions to the country, and the only requirement was that they be documented. The solution today is to welcome anyone who comes to work. Just find out who they are (checking on should be easier than stopping), where they are going to be including changes in location, and give them papers showing that they are welcome guest workers. (If some are found, from checking, to be undesirable or to have misrepresented themselves, deport them.) But don't give them any of the "benefits" of our welfare state--no social security (deductions or benefits), no medicare (deductions or benefits), no minimum wage, and no income taxes. Require only than they obey laws (excluding those that only support our welfare state) and pay for the education of their children in schools that provide the indoctrination our own children should get, but don't. If those immigrants ever want to become citizens, they can go through the usual naturalization process.

If it were easy to come here legally, there would be so few attempting to sneak across borders that enforcement should be doable. If we also legalized drugs, drugs would be so cheep as to eliminate the lucrative drug trade. The only people trying to come across borders illegally would be terrorists or other people with criminal intent. Shoot them on sight.

Jobs Americans don't want
When I was growing up a job in the construction industry was considered a good job. People made adequate livings as carpenters, electcricians, iron workers, brick layers, etc. Today, if you go to a constructin site and close your eyes you would believe you were in a foreign country.

Construction isn't the only industry where Americans have been replaced. It's not that Americans don't want these jobs, it's that the illegals will do the same jobs for much less per hour and employers are looking at the bottom line.

Serious Cleasning Is Needed
It isn't that difficult to enforce our laws. All we need is a leader who believes in the USA.

Ellis Island on the Southern Border
Many of our ancestors came over here through Ellis Island. Opening up the equivalent on the southern border would speed up the process of citizenship while still allowing security to background check them.

open borders
open borders allow de facto invasion.
open borders allow de facto invasion.
open borders allow de facto invasion.
open borders allow de facto invasion.
open borders allow de facto invasion.
open borders allow de facto invasion.
etc.
repeat until you get it.

Fences work if done properly
Fences do work! Just look at the Korean DMZ and the Israeli fence along the Gaza strip. You may need a double fence and extra patrols. And yes 30-40% of illegal are Visa overstays. So the US-VISIT program that is supposed to track everyone that comes into the USA on Visas and make sure they leave when their visas expire. Shame on John Stossel for not doing his homework. It is just a matter of enforcing existing law.

E. Germany kept 'em in
Nobody wanted to go to East Germany - They wanted to get out.

John, most illegals do not pay taxes. They work off the books. They use hospitals that we pay for. Cut off all services to those who are illegal and you will keep those who don't want to work out. Make employers pay the price for off the books workers and illegals become less attractive to employers.

Biggest lie of all!
"They take jobs few Americans want to do."

Stop this nonsense, you are usually better than this BS! There are former white collar workers trying to sell hotdogs on the street for God's sake! Yes, some will have to swallow their pride, but, when push comes to shove, Americans will do what they have to do. Only government give-away programs can stop them.

We're Stupider than Communists
How is it that East Germany could construct a wall that hardly anyone could penetrate and we cannot?

How to Stop Illegal Immigration..Really!
1) Increase border patrol.
2) Enforce workplace regulations and heavily penalize companies that violate them.
3) Create a guest worker program that requires legal entry.
4) Deny social services (except in the case of emergencies) to illegal immigrants.
5) Require local governments to enforce federal immigration laws (and give them the funding to do so).
6) Repeal the law that grants citizenship to illegal immigrants children born in this country.

Fine the Employer
What happened to what seems to be the most effective deterrent? Make the penalty for hiring illegals outweigh the benefit and the problem will go away.

A good question is
Where the hell is DHS why cant they guard the boarder. Oh yeah they are guarding leftist propaganda. Hide your pro life bumper stickers.
The constitution can be violated when you have all the guns.

Obama will fix immigration
Once Cap and Trade and the rest of his programs are implemented we will be a third world nation and the flow will be in the other direction.

Fine, but for one thing...
...we cannot have a liberal immigration policy while we still have a luxurious welfare state AND refuse to require the immigrant to assimilate to American norms.

Time was, the assumption of assimilation went unchallenged. Indeed, the main rationale for the public schools was that they were tools for integrating the immigrant and his children into our society. But with the rise of multiculturalism and cultural relativism, that assumption has been overthrown -- and with it, the integral character of these United States.

Yes, it's easy enough to get here, legally or not. But for those who refuse to assimilate -- learn English, obey federal and local laws, and do as you would be done by -- we should make it VERY hard to stay.

Border security
"Where's the Department of Homeland Security? Hello! Anybody here?"

Is DHS head Napolitano concerned with illegal aliens, infiltrating terrorists, border auto thieves, drug smuggling cartels, kidnappers, etc.

NOOOOOOO. It's those pesky, radical, dangerous right wing conservatives who need to be watched very closely!

Legalize immigration AND reform welfare
Did I say "reform" welfare? I meant ELIMINATE.

But since it's politically IMPOSSIBLE to eliminate ANY government program once it's gotten started, lets at least change the rules so that you need to prove your legal status before being allowed to receive any taxpayer-funded freebies.

re: limitedgovernment, reply #1
If you make it easier to get in legally to work, then there is less incentive for those wanting to come here for economic prosperity to sneak it. Then the people trying to sneak in are not only easier to catch (because there's fewer of them) but it's more obvious that they are NOT coming here for jobs.

Make it easier for them to do it legally
after we have reformed the welfare state.

What do we do about the terrorists?



Get the "middle" and left on board with state's rights: http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/938695/localism_l iberty.html?cat=9

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