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Wednesday, November 26, 2008
John Stossel :: Townhall.com Columnist
The Big Three Should Stand on Their Own Feet
by John Stossel
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Will the Dems' health care Christmas Present to America be an improvement or detriment to our health care system?


Do the executives of the Big Three automobile manufacturers think we're stupid?

"The societal costs [of the loss of General Motors, Ford or Chrysler] would be catastrophic -- three million jobs lost within the first year," said GM chief Rick Wagoner during last week's congressional hearing.

Fortunately, Congress didn't fall for it -- yet. But next month or next year is another story. President-elect Obama is sympathetic to a bailout.

The auto heads tried to pin their problems on the general economic decline. They also said their companies have gone far in working to turn themselves around. "We have taken tough actions to cut costs, at the same time investing billions in fuel-efficient vehicles and new generations of advanced propulsion technologies," Wagoner wrote in The Wall Street Journal.

If so, why would that make the companies deserving of a bailout? The economic slowdown affects everyone. Why single out the carmakers?

And if GM and the others have done so much to raise productivity and improve their products, they would attract private capital. Investors are always looking for profitable ventures.

What Wagoner and his colleagues hope we'll overlook is Frederic Bastiat's lesson: Government intervention must not be judged only by the immediate and obvious consequences for the intended beneficiaries but also by the unseen effects on the rest of society. If the automakers get $25 billion from the capital markets because the federal government guarantees the loans, other businesses won't be able to borrow that money. Resources that go into making cars can't be used to make something else.

Why should politicians decide who gets those resources? It's not as though congressmen using government force are better than the decentralized voluntary market at spotting the most promising investments. Far from it. They will make their decisions on the basis of political considerations, such as who gave them contributions or might finance a get-out-the-vote drive in the next election.

Private investors, risking their own money, have an acute interest in separating the economic wheat from the chaff. Their income depends on finding ventures that would have the best prospects of pleasing consumers. We already know that Detroit's automakers have failed that test against Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Kia, Hyundai, BMW and Daimler.

"The future of the domestic auto business is critical to the health of the U.S. economy," Wagoner writes. But why should we believe that? Sure, America needs cars. But there is more than one way to "produce" a car. You can produce it directly, or you can produce it indirectly by making something else and trading it for a car. There's no shame in producing cars indirectly.

Anyway, the Big Three are not the only carmakers in the United States. Foreign automakers have factories in the United States that employ 113,000 American workers. Who cares if the cars have foreign names?

GM, Ford and Chrysler probably wouldn't even disappear without a bailout. Bankruptcy would most likely mean reorganization under court supervision, protection from creditors and revision of union contracts. The companies would finally do what they should have done years ago: shut down more plants, eliminate some dealerships and get rid of some union rules. It would be a good thing. The companies would come out leaner.

It's clear that Detroit would prefer to deal with congressmen than bankruptcy judges. Having Congress tell auto companies how to make cars and what to pay executives is offensive. But that's what will happen if politicians put up loan guarantees. A bailout would be a reverse Robin Hood story: robbing from the less wealthy to give to the more wealthy. As Daniel Mitchell of the Cato Institute writes, "[T]he corporate bureaucrats at the Big Three are among the very richest Americans. The UAW bosses make extravagant salaries as well, and even regular union workers make [more] than the average American." An economy in recession needs to cleanse itself of bad investments born of years of policy errors and managerial blunders. Keeping capital locked up in failing companies will slow the recovery and extend the hardship longer than necessary.

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About The Author
John Stossel blogs at http://blogs.abcnews.com/johnstossel/ is an award-winning news correspondent and author of Myths, Lies, and Downright Stupidity: Get Out the Shovel--Why Everything You Know is Wrong.
 
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i want to believe you...
... but what will america produce to trade for cars? i don't like the idea of a bailout of the big 3, which seems like throwing good money after bad, but will we have any manufacturing capability left?

B of WA
John is right (again), foriegn car makers are just showing the way. It is sad that the unions have done this to the big 3 but faced with becoming reasonable or ending big 3's existence I'm sure reason will finally come.

The union's answer to the current problem is to make Toyota, Honda, etc., have to employ the union. YIKES ! If that happens it WILL be the death of manufacturing in U.S. of A. The firewall will have collapsed and you can call us France.

Management at big 3 has been cowtowed by government and union, they should be dismissed, it's not like they are going to go hungry or anything. It would be good to see some Silicone Valley types get a shot at building cars.

Mr. Stossel, you are wrong on this one..
I have said it before, and I'll say it again.....as long as conservative(and libertarian) pundits keep writing about the Big 3. The people of the US turned their heads when our other productive industries went under...the steel industry, the textile industry, the furniture industry, etc. We need to keep productive industry in the US. What if we have future defense needs, like in WWII? Don't tell me about foreign car manufacturers, as they report to their home countries. Don't tell me about service-based industries. We need productivity. Also, the last GM-UAW contract has new-hires starting at $14/hour.

We need to give the auto industry their bridge loan. Will we only prop up Wall Street? What about main street?

This conservative has just about had it with those who are so short-sighted and philosophical and dogmatic.

Who cares what they produce?
If the car manufacturers as a group become commercially unviable (a circumstance I don't believe for a moment will come to pass though "the big two" might become a reality), the workers will eventually be redeployed producing something economically worthwhile. It doesnt matter if they manufacture cars for Toyota, motorcycles for Harley, underwear for UnderArmor, Big Macs for McDonalds or if they all become box boys at Wal-Mart.

We have to abandon the economic ignorance that pretends that it makes any economic difference whether productive employment is realized in American or foreign companies operating here, whether the employment is in manufacturing or services and whether there is a "trade deficit" or not. NONE of which matters in the slightest from an economic standpoint, the populist nonsense of Dobbs and O'Reilly notwithstanding.

The key to economic success is "LET THE MARKET WORK". Every "bailout" no matter how well intentioned merely makes matters worse.

How about a role for the UAW?
Maybe the UAW Union should float the auto companys a loan ... or better yet .... let the UAW Union members BUY the company and run it themselves.

The "national defense" canard
The story goes that if we "lose" the steel industry or the auto industry or the [fill in the blank with whatever the latest companies in crisis might be] industry, then our national security will be at risk. Nonsense.

The thing that has allowed the United States to amass the most powerful and well equipped military on the planet is not any particular industry, but our economic strength. THAT is what is placed in jeopardy by attempts to "save" industries (which, BTW, only contributes to their lack of efficiency).

There is no risk that we will be cut off and unable to get what we need unless every related resource and skill is lost and every trading partner shuts down their (by far) largest customer. The only chance of that happening is if the planet skips off its axis ... at which point it won't matter.

Ensure our long term security. Government must stop meddling with the economy.

Tax subsidies create dependency!
John, you have said it well. The problem isn't the logic of your argument, but the reality of politics. The democratic control of Congress and the White House will throw logic out the window. Democrats owe far too much to unions to risk harming them by Chapter 11. Politics demands that government bailout, period. This government of ours is no longer responsive to logic or the desires of the public.

Oh Pamela, your concern of the U.S. loosing manufacturing capability is valid. However, you fail to recognize that government subsidy of the auto industry will all but guarantee their nonviable status. Only chapter 11 will force them to confront the issues which make them noncompetitive.


Right On John
Funny how the same people who cry out for taxes on the wealthy are the first people who want to give the wealthy tax payer money. These bailouts are going to destroy the country. Americans are losing all faith in and respect for the system.

The Bigger Picture.
Well, a few of the larger and powerful nations have tried this "create wealth without military conquest" for a short time now.

Considering the 7 billion humans now roaming around, how do you like the way it's working so far?

Soon, the Democrats, and other anti-gun folks, will be demanding a gun for every person be provided by the government, even before health care. Your health care will be your medic.

James Goodfellow
Beware the James Goodfellows (US auto makers and union contracts), don't summit bills of restitution, for all the Social Security, welfare and Medicare benefits alleviated by their (generosity) in negotiated union contracts.

As an example, my father died in 1963 and had worked for GM for 40 years at what today would be considered minimum wage. My mother, however collected death benefit and full medical benefits until she died in 2006...you do the math.

Not sure where you're coming from, Mike
"Well, a few of the larger and powerful nations have tried this 'create wealth without military conquest' for a short time now.... Considering the 7 billion humans now roaming around, how do you like the way it's working so far?"

I HOPE that you are arguing that it has been a resounding success and that, as Adam Smith demonstrated 232 years ago, population is restrained by lack of prosperity. I am concerned that you are arguing that the 7 billion souls represent some sort of devastating problem.

"Soon, the Democrats, and other anti-gun folks, will be demanding a gun for every person be provided by the government, even before health care. Your health care will be your medic."

Are you arguing FOR socialized health care? Or increased militarization?

Hate to be disagreeable here but...
John, I normally agree with about everything you say because you make sense. But this time, I cannot.

The auto industry is fully ten percent of our economy. Want to experience a Depression first hand? Then let another industry fall by the way, one that touches all fifty states. My question to those who so easily say, Americans can just make something else is: what something else do you think Americans can make? Mickey D's isn't going to save us if we need to actually produce something useful or trade-worthy or even in self-defense other than more fat and calories. We have no manufacturing to speak of anymore. It's all in China now. Check your local Wal Mart. Why aren't reporters asking what the ratio of Chinese to American made goods are for sale at the retail level? This is war, economic war, and the world is winning at our expense. And what's worse is, we're too self-centered, each of us locked in our own little world, to notice or care that we're getting beat.

I think, however, that if the Big Three automakers are going to be bailed out, they need to open their books to independent accountants, and by independent I mean those without party or union ties, and let the waste be cut, then each dime in bailout be accounted for. This alone would smoke out the automaker who may have his hand out just because he can.

Wall Street should have to do the same, open their books, before they get any money, but what're the odds on that?

Sorry, M.L.
That "[t]he auto industry is fully ten percent of our economy" is pure mythology and neither its demise nor its survival will in any way determine whether or not we experience another Depression. The Depression of the thirties was a direct result of governmental intervention (as is the current crisis) not the functioning of the marketplace.

"My question to those who so easily say, Americans can just make something else is: what something else do you think Americans can make?"

I have no idea. It makes absolutely no difference.

"Mickey D's isn't going to save us if we need to actually produce something useful or trade-worthy..."

The distinction is entirely false. The notion that manufacturing is either more moral, more beneficial or more "productive" than any other industry (including services) is without basis in reality. If we can goods cheaper from China, then we ALL benefit. The reality of "outsourcing" - which you seem to be touching on - is that more and typically BETTER PAYING jobs are created in this country as a result.

The Chinese have a comparative advantage in cheap labor. To the extent that that labor produces goods for US consumers at a lower price, EVERYONE beefits. And keep in mind that unemployment - even when it peaks in a year-and-a-half or so - will STILL be lower than in the interventionist economies of Western Europe.

The notion that "we have no manufacturing anymore" is also entirely mythological. US manufacturing has continued to grow steadily EVERY year. It's manufacturing employment that is dropping (in China as well).

"Why aren't reporters asking what the ratio of Chinese to American made goods are for sale at the retail level?"

Because it is economically MEANINGLESS.

And the SEC already requires EVERY company's books to be "open" in the manner you describe.

The unions are killing another industry
Let the unions die. They killed white motors, they killed the steel industry, the airlines etc. Whats a few more lazy worthless unemployed people. Let the union use their money for unemployment benefits.

It isn't a choice
This isn't a choice between having the TAXPAYERS bail out the Big Three auto companies or having them go out of business forever. It's a choice between a bailout and bankruptcy/reorganization. If Congress just throws more money at these managers who have failed to effectively manage their businesses up to now, then they will continue to fail. Ford and GM have shown that they can be profitable outside the US. They need to reorganize, break the unions and put that knowledge and innovation to work in the US. Chrysler has been a millstone around the neck of the taxpayers, consumers and business partners for 30 years, and should be put out of its misery.

re: Pamela & M.L.
Since the Detroit auto companies couldn't get me to voluntarily give them money, they are asking the government to take it from me. That's the crux of this issue.

The bottom line on US manufacturing is that it is INCREASING, not decreasing. We are just able to make more and more things with fewer workers. That's the beauty of innovation and technology.

As for the national security argument, consider this: does the cost of war with the US go up or down for, say, Germany or Japan the more factories they have in the US? A vigorous commercial trade between countries fosters peace -- few people want to punch either their best customer or their grocer in the mouth.

Worse case scenario: say we DO go to war with, say, Japan. The US government could easily send the military in to take over the Toyota plant in San Antonio or the Nissan plant in Tennessee or the Mercedes plant in Alabama. But don't confiscate my paycheck today based on the idea that a war might just happen at some undetermined date in the future.

F1etch
I hate to quibble since you post really good stuff but, not EVERY company falls under SEC regulation. There are private companies not listed on any exchange and not available for public ownership that do not have to provide accounting information to anyone they don't wish to. You need the word public in front of companies to be accurate.

Big Three automakers are a racket
They and the UAW should be prosecuted under RICO. They have teamed up to make a racket that the Mafia must envy.

To paraphrase Hyman Roth in "Godfather II", GM, Ford and Chrysler are striving for "partnership with a friendly government".

It's not about selling cars, it's about shaking us down, and using the power of the federal government to do it.


If one of these sorry excuses...
for corporations goes belly-up, its assets will be sold, including patents, trademarks, equipment and proprietary property.

Those assets may just as well be bought by American corporations as well as foreign corporations.

It is highly likely that many of the same cars produced by the current auto-makers will be produced by the new auto-makers, including American corporations. They will probably have better employee relations and will be able to build them cheaper and better.

Many of those same results could be achieved by Chapter 11, including distribution of the assets to more efficient companies.

The only extreme choice is the bailout. Let's not compound the mistake of the financial bailout by doing another one. In fact, let's get smart and rescind the financial bailout before it’s too late.


Easy to do the right thing

Look out your window, and watch the cars going by. Did you see a Chevy, a Chrysler, a Ford?

There is no way to tell. The Auto companies not only have built the most ugly cars ever seen, they are ashamed to put their name on them.

To solve this problem will take time to retool, and retrain both workers and buyers, but the solution is easy to find.

Just go look in the files that each company must have kept, and pull out the blueprints of the 1951 Plymouth, the 1955 Chevy, and the 1978 Cadillac.

It will take time to re-do the factory, but the result will be excellent, a vast improvement over the odd looking junk you see on every street and every parking lot.

By the way, make sure they use paint with some color in it.


It's about customers
We taxpayers (auto customers) are not buying many cars, and what we do buy is not from the "Big Three." No amount of life support to these companies will restore the customers that left them over the last few decades. You can't save an industry by temporarily replacing their revenue, you can only delay its demise.

We cannot afford to nationalize the auto industry, and then all other depressed industries that will follow with their “me too” demands. Any business that cannot attract their own customer base deserves to die.

The same number of cars will be purchased by us regardless of their source. Auto dealers will re-brand or die, but their people will still find work selling and repairing the same NUMBER of cars as before. “People will lose their jobs” is a bald lie—they will only move from servicing Fords to servicing Hondas. Parts dealers and manufacturers will also re-brand to the surviving labels.

Detroit was already in decline. Michigan, too. Those regions will be hurt unless they can attract industry (Honda?), but the unions will need to change or die, too, or Michigan will become the canary in this coal mine.

These companies had plenty of time to see and understand how Honda, Toyota, and others attracted their customers. The Big Three didn’t act to save themselves. Why should we?

National defense won't go anywhere
The Big 3 auto makers aren't even in the defense business anymore. Who are the big players? Lockheed Martin, Raytheon, General Dynamics, General Electric, Northrop Grumman. These companies manufacture just about all of our combat armor, air and sea weapon platforms. GM doesn't.

The Big 3 don't make Bradleys, Abrams, Raptors, Apaches, Nimitz-class carriers, or much of anything used by our military. They're almost entirely commercial these days.

A Bailout here, a Bailout there,
everywhere a Bailout, get in line! Ignoramouses all!

Rewarding Failure
Whether it is a car maker on the ropes or someone that borrowed too much money to buy a house and now can't make the payments the response should be the same. Live with what you have created. I have lived on less in order to make my payments and keep my debt under control, to now take my tax dollars and give it to those that could not do the same is immoral. To support their failure is to ask for more failure.

As long as the UAW sends...

99% of their political contributions to Democrat candidates, I will continue to buy "foreign" cars.

Buying a Big-3 auto is equal to donating to:

*The anti-gun lobby
*The Pro-abortion lobby
*The Militant-Gay lobby
*The Open-borders lobby
*The Anti School-choice lobby
*etc...

I'm not the only one in Detroit with generous employee discounts available - driving Toyota's, Honda's, and Nissan's.

The UAW is quite self-destructive (as all liberals are) in pretending this is not a Huge issue, helping to destroy the companies who put food on their tables.

What idiots!

Hitchhiker
Your point is well taken. I should have been more specific.

As you understand - so this is for the benefit of people like M.L. - none of the private companies are seeking bailouts.

Bailout or Bankruptcy
Look, it's very simple. The domestic auto industry (Big 3) is saddled with unreasonable union contracts and onerous legacy costs. They are in an uncompetitive box. The only way out of the box is to get rid of the burdens that have nothing to do with producing and marketing vehicles in today's business environment.

It is a waste of time to blame the current management teams for Detroit's problems. The heavy load of medical and retirement costs accumulated over many past regimes. I'm sure every current Big 3 executive would be thrilled to be rid of those costs. However, we all need to realize that it's not going to happen unless the companies are given an opportunity to reorganize, and a massive reorg is possible only under Chapter 11 bankruptcy.

A $50 billion government bailout is money down a rat hole. It simply subsidizes union contracts and legacy costs that would continue to weigh the companies down until the next bailout becomes necessary.

It is also erroneous to claim (as many have) that Detroit makes cars that no one wants to buy. Check the roads. At least half the cars and trucks are Ford, GM, and Chrysler products. Sure, you'll also see many imports and models made in the US by Asian and European based companies. That's due to competition, which we would all agree is a good thing. It's truly remarkable that our American companies have been able to compete as well as they have under cost burdens their competitors don't have to bear. Unfortunately, their circumstances cause them to lose money on every car sold. Their business models have to change if the domestic auto industry is to survive and thrive.

The bottom line is: bailout -- NO, Chapter 11 -- YES.

Frederic Bastiat's lesson
HIGHLY recommended. The full link is http://www.fee.org/publications/the-freeman/article.asp?ai d=3227

A really excellent piece!

John:
It is hard to stand on your own feet when you've shot yourself in the foot.

They KNOW we're stupid!
We just elected a marxist and a complete fraud didn't we? I didn't help that cause, but "we the sheeple" showed mass stupidity.

Very funny
Mr Stossel posits that the money that goes to the Big 3 removes a source of income from some other entity. Pure balderdash. It must be that he is unfamiliar with the Federal Reserve System; they can just keep the printing presses rolling and make more cash.

It does exactly that
"Mr Stossel posits that the money that goes to the Big 3 removes a source of income from some other entity."

He's absolutely correct. If the Treasury prints more money it still comes from otherwise productive enterprises by devaluing the currency (inflation) no less than if it was collected in taxation.

There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.

CONGRESS SHOULD LEARN TO STAND BY
CONGRESS SHOULD REPRESENT THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE, AND NOT FORCE THE PEOPLE TO LIVE BY THEIR WILL.NO TO BAILOUTS AND STIMULUS CHECKS.

Yeah!
Yeah and not on mine! We have not bought an "american" auto in years! Why? If you do not alaready know why, you are beyond my ability to help you understand!

BTW: all the cars we have bought for years were made in America by Americans!

BAILOUTS-BRIDGES TO NOWHERE
With all the plants and infrastructure of the Big 3 automakers, it is inconceivable that should any or all of them go 'bankrupt' some other concern won't be waiting in the wings to purchase these established industries. Whoever takes them over, will still need workers, especially workers with experience within the newly purchased plants. Of course, the current CEOs and unions are using their clout (union votes and donations) to pressure their democrat bed buddies to continue subsidizing them--and they will, over and over again.
The only way to break the bridges of 'bailouts', is the collective voice of Americans, saying 'NO'. 'NO' to buying the Big 3s cars, 'NO' to re-electing union run politicians, 'NO' to ourselves for further spending or borrowing for 'things' not essential to survive.

It would be easier...
for the big three to stand on their feet if the government wasn't persistent in trying to cut their legs off. Cut all our legs off. We're paying the price for government spending out of control. Obama is nuts if he thinks he can continue the inflationary policies of Bush and be reelected.

I AGREE JOHN S.
This situation of bailing out the automakers reminds me of someone who just won the lottery, Uncle Sam. Suddenly there appears relatives from everywhere with sad stories asking for some of the winnings. There's the financial instituions, the automakers, the states, the cities, the homeowners with bad mortgages, AIG wants to pay CEO bonuses, on and on.
If we bail out the automakers, do the tax payers own the Jet Stream planes? I want a turn to ride in one of our jets.

poor to rich, good money after bad
The average salary of hourly auto workers at the Big three is over $70 per hour. This puts these guys in the top 6th of income earners. It is very hard for me to feel sorry for them at that salary. On top of that, they get a perk nobody else gets - a jobs bank that pays them not to work when they shut down a plant. They retain 95% of their salary plus full benefits. Again, very hard to feel sorry for them.

A bailout is a transfer of wealth from people who make less to the rich. It is also good money either borrowed or printed after bad, wasteful bloat.

Bankrupt Is Best Course
The only long term salvation of the "Big 3" is for them to go bankrupt and reorganize as "lean and mean" companies. Bailout will only prolong their misery. They will be back for more of our money just as AIG and Citigroup have. Congress has no idea how to make cars or conduct profitable financing. Those bozos will make matters worse.

Boycott Big 3 and all beggars!
I would hope that we, as true conservatives, not the trolls like Mario, would NEVER purchase from ANY company that stands in line for bailouts. It only punishes the businesses with proper models that should stand to benefit when their competition becomes too clumsy to succeed. That design has worked for centuries in this great land. Although I am sure that the union hacks that spew their leftism here will surely disagree.

Keep one thing in mind John--
Although I don't like bailouts, cut them a little slack; the government has a punishing tax system that drastically favors foreign cars (which is in fact why Japanese cars can even compete price-wise), and then they back that up with insanely union-backing legislation that has put a boat anchor on productivity, and more compellingly, progress and new ideas. Add to that laws regarding expensive safety features, excessive tests, expensive law suits for even the slightest problem, and the horrible spector of more manipulation of CAFE standards or oil supplies, and I can see how the Big Three feel that they are owed a bailout from the government that tore them down.
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