Townhall.com, Where Your Opinion Counts
Talk Radio:   Bill Bennett   Mike Gallagher   Dennis Prager   Michael Medved   Hugh Hewitt   
BREAKING NEWS  LeftArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican   RightArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican  
Columns, funnies & more in your inbox!
  • Check the boxes and send us your email address to receveive your free newsletter
  • Your daily must-read of conservative columns, cartoons and news. Coulter, Sowell, Krauthammer and more.
  • Townhall.com’s weekly inside scoop on what’s happening behind the scenes in the world of politics. When news breaks, we report.
  • Signup to receive the latest daily Townhall cartoons
Wednesday, April 23, 2008
John Stossel :: Townhall.com Columnist
The Sky's Not Falling
by John Stossel
Vote on It:
Average Vote:
[+] Text [-]
 
Poll
Will the Dems' health care Christmas Present to America be an improvement or detriment to our health care system?


"Mortgage Crisis," shouts the New York Times. The Times has used the term "subprime crisis" at least 11 times. Not in opinion columns -- in news stories.

The columns are worse. Paul Krugman writes: "A lot of the financial system looks like it's going to shrivel up and have to be rebuilt."

The "financial crisis," says Fortune's senior editor, "is threatening to bring down the entire system, with dire consequences."

When the current troubles aren't a "crisis," they're a "disaster". That's what John McCain called them, while Hillary Clinton prefers "crisis," saying, "This market is clearly broken, and, if we don't fix it, it could threaten our entire housing market."

Wait a second.

Where is this "credit crisis"? Did the supermarket reject your Visa card? I still see Ditech commercials offering fixed-rate mortgages at around 5.5 percent.

Sure, some lenders are skittish while things play out. Some investment banks and brokerage houses are sitting on shaky mortgage-backed securities. But why call that a "crisis"?

Do we have 25 percent unemployment, as we did during the Depression? Do we even have 7.5 percent unemployment, 12 percent inflation and 20 percent interest rates, as we did during Jimmy Carter's presidency?

There's a been a loss of jobs in the past two months, but that comes after years of strong job creation -- 25 million net jobs in the last 15 years. At 5.1 percent, unemployment is low by historical standards.

And are we really experiencing a mortgage-default "crisis"? No. The Mortgage Bankers Association's 2007 fourth-quarter survey reports that foreclosures came to 2.04 percent of all mortgages. Many of those were speculators seeking flip profits rather than homeowners losing a dream house. During the quarter, only 0.83 percent of homes entered the foreclosure process. It may get worse -- in March, "foreclosure filings, default notices, auction sale notices and bank repossessions rose 5 percent," Reuters reports (http://tinyurl.com/6bb28q). But let's keep things in perspective: Ninety-eight percent of borrowers are not in foreclosure. Only a small percentage of them are even late in payments.

Politicians love a "crisis." John McCain, Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama all think that the government should bail out homeowners who can't pay their mortgages. When they say the government should do this, they mean the taxpayers, including those who are paying their mortgages. They also think the government should regulate the lending and investment industries further.

Why?

Because "crisis" justifies making big government bigger.

It's why we now have a global warming "crisis" and in previous years we had "crises" over avian flu, the Y2K threat to computers, imaginary cancer spikes caused by pesticides, killer bees flying up from Mexico, and uncontrolled population growth leading to a "Population Bomb" that will bring "riots and mass starvation" by the year 2000.

This is not to say that lots of homebuyers aren't having a hard time. But the rapid rise and fall in housing values in some parts of the country -- and the rippling consequences at each stage -- do not justify scrapping what we know about economic success and turning to government control. Prosperity and stability come from people being free to innovate and produce -- and yes, fail. Bureaucrats, however well-intentioned, cannot know enough to manage that process. They are unqualified to give the green light to some innovations and the red light to others. Bailouts create irresponsibility.

I expect the silly people to say silly things. Here's Paul Krugman: "[I]t's puzzling that Democrats haven't been more aggressive about making the disaster an issue for the 2008 election. They should be."

Keith Olbermann even seems to find the "crisis" exciting. "You watch, this is going to make Enron look like the failure of a lemonade stand."

But the rest of us should get a grip. The best regulator of economic activity and source of knowledge is free competition.

Of course, government inhibits that in many ways. If we want to avoid disruptions like the current one, let's undertake a wholesale examination of government intervention in the economy. Freedom, not control, is the ticket to success.

Share:
Vote on It:
Average Vote:
 
About The Author
John Stossel blogs at http://blogs.abcnews.com/johnstossel/ is an award-winning news correspondent and author of Myths, Lies, and Downright Stupidity: Get Out the Shovel--Why Everything You Know is Wrong.
 
TOWNHALL DAILY: Be the first to read John Stossel's column. Sign up today and receive Townhall.com daily lineup delivered each morning to your inbox.
 
©Creators Syndicate
But it will get worse
The wild printing-press days of the Fed are catching up with the US economy. If we don't eliminate the fed and get rid of the government controls (as Stossel suggests), I fear a serious crash is coming. And it may very well still happen, thanks to the past actions of the US government.

Knight
Oh, so the sky's not falling, but the sky's going to be falling. Is that it? Someday?

Now if you keep prediction a recession, I'm sure you'll eventually be right. Kind of like a broken clock that's right twice a day.

Stossel
writes, " Freedom, not control, is the ticket to success."

Amen.

knight: A serious crash could be brought about by government action. That would be good for them. The bigger the crisis, the bigger the response. Look what the Great Depression gave us. Another one could do even more for the socialist cause. Freedom takes faith. Faith takes courage. A government security blanket requires surrendering liberty and ensuring economic malaise.

Considering all the miracles Jesus performed and was still rejected, I suppose it must be that "the people" will reject the true way economically also due to a lack of faith and a demand for temporal security.

The federal reserve is working valiantly against the tide doing as good a job as could be expected under the congressional mishandled circumstances. Cut em a break. They are not perfect but, they are far better then the alternative. A rising tide lifts all boats. Freedom makes the tide rise and government control makes it recede.

The Fed et al
I do know the dollar is sinking. It gets painful where I work, because we have to buy SMS credits from an overseas company every month, and every month it's more expensive.

There can be a lot of causes for this, an unchecked money supply certainly among them. I think there's also a lot of unaccounted spending in Iraq. They're not following normal spending procedures there, and the suspicion is that it's to hide the true costs. Well, you can't hide inflationary spending forever. Sooner or later, the dollars come back to haunt you, and that makes everything more expensive.

Sigh, what to do, what to do. ALL of these problems have government as their root cause. But at this point in time, we have NOBODY in power looking at it from that perspective. EVERYBODY wants to solve the problem with still more government.

I don't know if it's going to all crash around our ears as Knight suggests -- but I'm sure it's going to get a lot worse before it gets better.

Questions
Why did the Depression occur, after arguably the most laissez faire period in U.S. history?

Why do we spend the most (per capita) on health than all developed nations and yet have the worst health indicators, while we have the most capitalistic system?

Stossel's point of view is always interesting. Next, some insight on the food crisis (can I call it that?)

Alien
"Why did the Depression occur, after arguably the most laissez faire period in U.S. history?"

According to Milton Friedman, the federal gvt helped create the Great Depression by contracting the money supply several times as the economy was stabilizing. This was a major driver in deepening and elongating the economic downturn. Without the help of the federal gvt, the decade long Great Depression may have been the Great Recession of 1929.


Government employs 22,387,000 Americans
What jobs are being created?



quote Stossel:
There's a been a loss of jobs in the past two months, but that comes after years of strong job creation -- 25 million net jobs in the last 15 years. At 5.1 percent, unemployment is low by historical standards.
--------

Paul Craig Roberts Archive
A Reagan man did a study.

Government employs 22,387,000 Americans, 8,744,000 more than manufacturing. Even the category leisure and hospitality employs 13,682,000 Americans, slightly more than manufacturing. There are as many waitresses and bartenders as production workers.

Wholesale and retail trade employ 21,467,000 Americans. Professional and business services employ 18,036,000 Americans of which 8,368,000 are in administrative and waste services. Education and health services employ 18,699,000 Americans.

Financial activities employ 8,228,000 Americans. The information sector employs 3,010,000. Transportation and warehousing employ 4,532,000. Construction employs 7,338,000, and natural resources, mining and logging employ 751,000. Other services such as repair, laundry, and membership associations employ 5,516,000 Americans.
http://www.vdare.com/roberts/080408_economy.htm

How many working Americans does it take to support 22,387,000 "servants"?

Outside of Government, here is where the jobs are growing.

"Wholesale and retail trade employ 21,467,000 Americans"

Might want to look into this for your next article John

Take back the control over the money
Supply from the bankers and put it back where the Constitution says it is to be, with the Congress and the people.

Says nothing about bankers running America's money supply and its value.

This is what is wrong with everything in our economy.
A private corporation owning the nations money and profiteering off the entire nation's economy and use of the fiat paper all bearing interest on debt.
Plus the inflation of it all is killing peoples ability to keep up with it.

talent scout, I'm stunned ...
by your numbers.The payroll alone must be over $1 trillion/ year. I've read that total taxes for all levels of government reach the $4.6 trillion mark. What do they all do, and how can they possible be tracked?

It really is a bottomless pit
I remember when BJ Clinton shut down the gov't cause Newt and the boys wouldn't play nice. Around Thanksgiving and the wailing and moaning that the main stream pinheads put on the news every day about these starving federal servants and how bad those nasty republicans were. What is it with the liberal press, and why do they want to destroy our country??

IT IS STUNNING INFORMATION
Stunned writes: 3:09 AM
talent scout, I'm stunned ...
by your numbers.The payroll alone must be over $1 trillion/ year. I've read that total taxes for all levels of government reach the $4.6 trillion mark. What do they all do, and how can they possible be tracked?
-----------
For anyone with 2 brain cells.
Our problem is the real facts are kept from the public.

We call this the information age.
What a dirty joke that is.

There may be tons of information out there, but most of it is propaganda when it concerns the economy and where all the problems in America rise from.

The Federal Reserve Banking thieves.
They are thieves!

The central insight
"Because "crisis" justifies making big government bigger."

If only people would keep this in mind when they're being berated by doom-shouters and the politically ambitious, America wouldn't have half the troubles that afflict it today.

In Robert Higgs's book "Crisis And Leviathan," he makes the case that crises, real or pretended, have been the main drivers of governmental expansion for the past century. Not enough people have bothered to demand specifics, or assurances that government won't make things far worse with the powers it's demanded. In consequence, Leviathan is poised to eat us alive.

But the episodes Higgs reviews mostly revolved around the World Wars. Today, we have fewer excuses for not demanding to know, as Arthur Herzog suggests, "If everything's a crisis, then where's the crisis?" You could be excused for inferring that we actually want to feel crisis-magnitude anxieties -- that we actually want to think of ourselves as living in an era of world-girdling danger.

Actually, we do live in an era of world-girdling danger. But it arises from governments and quasi-governmental entities such as Islam -- and don't expect any government to admit to either.

"Ve get too soon old und too late schmart." -- Originator unknown.

Why should Stossel be
surprised that the candidates are all cryiung doom and gloom over this non-issue in order to call for more taxes, more regulation, and more government? Well maybe not surprised but something that is news/column worthy. We have three Democrats running for the presidency. One just has an (R) after his name.

As for "most laissez faire period in U.S. history" hahahahaha, what a joke. Someone needs to go back to school or at least the library. A normal economic cycle was turned into the great depression by government action. That depression was prolonged and made worse by continued government action.

Alien asks
why we spend so much on health care, and the results are so bad. I'm no expert, but my theory is that health care is like education, on which we spend more and more, with worse and worse results.

If you read the Constitution, you can quickly deduce that the federal government has no authority over either health care or education. Same for retirement. But that hasn't stopped them from taking over all three during the past 50-60 years.

Best I remember, there was no health-care "crisis" when I was a child. We were poor, but if one of us was sick, we went to a doctor and recovered. Somehow, Daddy managed to pay the bills for six children. It would never have occurred to him to expect the neighbors to pay our bills for us, as so many do today.

Bottom line: the federal government, by unconstitutionally taking control of health care, education, et al, has managed to screw up, in their usual fashion. Someday, people will realize that liberalism simply doesn't work, has never worked, and never will work. Until then, we will have to deal with the various "crises", created by the feds, as best we can.

John is on the mark
John's comment about unemployment going to 5.1 got me thinking...how much of that increase (from the low of ~4.7) is directly attributed to the recent raising of the minimum wage? I remember an economics professor explaining that raising the minimum wage increased unemployment.

Lack of goverment control
What this country needs is for its government to get out of the way of the people. Let the people have the freedom to act in their own best interests. What is driving this country now is a small group of people acting in their best interests. For this discussion that group is the US Congress. These power seekers and power protectors have regulated this country into debt and economic slavery. Don't believe it? In a system of massive regulation or any regulation who has the power? The regulators of course. The regulators, that is, the Congress use their regulatory powers to buy votes and solicit the money of lobbyists. The costs of the strangulatory regulation are borne by the taxpayer. Sweet system for them, no?

Self-inerest.

Aaw, come on, Stossel... don't you know the saying in the media, "If it bleeds, it leads."

And our politicians, if we the people don't perceive a problem... well, create one.

Otherwise, what would all these nice people do?


Another Good Column By Stossel
And it is a welcome bonus that he cites and counters those idiots Krugman and Olberman to bolster his case. The day he agrees with them is the day to prepare for the rapture.

The current triumvirate will do nothing to make the situation better. Voting Libertarian might send anyone watching the message that we're getting tired of feeding the federal Leviathan.

We can thank Bob Dole for caving in on the standoff between Clinton and Gingrich. Those were the days - essential personnel only permitted to go to their federal jobs - what a concept! That's a good starting place - essential personnel - to begin the cutting. I don't see McCain having a hand in that or any kind of cutting; he's Dole-Lite.

In the meantime, Bob Barr is getting serious about the Libertarian nomination. Check 'em out:

http://www.bobbarr2008.com/

http://www.lp.org/

Housing Crisis?
Why it's a crisis:

1. The greedy house flippers got burned.

2. The fools in CA, FL, and Vegas can't sell their overpriced homes and condos.

3. The greedy realtors aren't making their 6-7% cut on McMansions.

4. Local gov't taxing authorities can't pay for their pork projects because property assessments, and hence, property taxes have fallen.

5. Lazy 45-year old speculators are no longer able to cash out their holdings and retire. It's a "crisis" because they now have to work to age 67-72 like most normal, responsible people.

6. The Democratic voting bloc is endanger of crumbling as out-of-work hispanic construction workers and their families & relatives consider moving back to Meh-Ee-Ko and beyond.

7. Meh-Ee-Ko faces the fiscal/social threat of returning illegals. Calderon has made it his mission to influence U.S. politicians and businessmen to ensure that doesn't happen.

The list is endless....

Other than that, housing is almost affordable again (Read: Realistic).

The current "Crisis" is the result of
government intervention in the market in the first place. The Community Reinvestment Act fined banks for not making sub-prime loans in their communities, and now that the chickens have come home to roost, those same banks are being demonized as "predatory lenders" for making the very loans the government forced upon them.

1. Pass some feel good legislation while ignoring the eventual effects

2. When the effects inevitably manifest themselves, use that as an excuse to further intrude into the market and make things even worse.

3. Use the calamity to argue that "Only the government" can fix a problem of this magnitude and usurp the market in its entirety.

Government healthcare anyone?

The Tyranny of "The Crisis"
In 1933, FDR moved into the White House and starting issuing unconstitutional edicts (euphemistically called "Executive Orders") based on some of the most illogical, crazy economic theories ever imagined. A bad recession, which should have ended in a year, was extended for at least six years and was only ended when the realities of World War overwhelmed the delusions of leftist/facist economic theory.

Whenver you hear a politician make heavy use of the word "Crisis", grab for your wallet first.


Crisis Dejure
To show you how insidious the media is for promulgating the latest liberal crisis dejure I had to turn off the History Channel this morning. They were supposed to be doing a show about the “End times” and revelations. When they gave “Global Warming” and Polar Ice caps melting as a sign of the end times I just couldn’t take it any more.

When you can’t even do a show about biblical prophecy without mentioning AGW you have got it bad.

There must be crisis in an election year
That's how politicians sell themselves and how the MSM sells commercials. Meanwhile, the regular folks and business leaders go about their business as usual.

My biggest fear is global warming. It's not that I think that it exists, it's that John is right about it being an excuse to grow the federal government and that the people of this country will elect and re-elect the snake oil salesmen to tax us into oblivion. If anything will sink our economy, it will be the federal government.

Unca Alby
writes, "There can be a lot of causes for this, an unchecked money supply certainly among them. I think there's also a lot of unaccounted spending in Iraq. They're not following normal spending procedures there, and the suspicion is that it's to hide the true costs. Well, you can't hide inflationary spending forever. Sooner or later, the dollars come back to haunt you, and that makes everything more expensive."

Yes indeed. I think money is too easy right now. Many state real rates are negative. The jury is still out on Bernanke. If he thinks he can finagle his way out of a recession, I am worried. There is certainly huge political pressure to do such things but, if he loses credibility as an inflation fighter, it is bad news.

One economist I know believes the current money policy is driving commodity prices across the board. It is certainly contributing to the fall of the dollar. That may be the goal. Many economists believe the dollar has a way to fall yet to balance out the global situation.

The solution to our ills is simple.
It is indeed time for the government to step up to the plate and take over the mortgage industry. Too often poor people are turned down for home loans, and when times get tough, the poor who did manage to buy a home get foreclosed on for no other reason than they could not make the payments.

Poor Americans are entitled to home ownership just as rich Americans are. One's financial class should not be the determining factor when deciding on whether or not a borrower is worthy of a loan. It is more important for us to consider the social contributions that a borrower makes rather than the financial ones.

The era of financial and credit qualifying for home ownership has obviously failed. Instead, a person that displays good community participation in the form volunteer service or other progressively enlightened activities should be entitled to ownership of a home whose value is on level with the social worthiness of the individual.

While there are those who would criticize this rationale, such detractors need to realize that credit and income are not the only merits that a person brings to the table. Social worth is of greater value to the community than is a large bank balance or high paying job.

Repayment would not an issue for individuals who are socially approved since the community would be required to pick up the difference between what the enlightened person can afford and what they deserve. Hence, if a person has a high social rating, they deserve a high quality house. If that person's income is limited or non-existent, the community would make the payments as a reward for the efforts of their enlightened neighbor.

In time, all housing and material goods should be allotted in this manner. This would eliminate greed and reward correct thinking and actions.

John
Children should not play grown-up!The economy is not your Strong suit.The "Cola" taste test would be good.Did we ever get those last results?

killer
writes, "Children should not play grown-up"

Exactly. Case in point.

Government could solve
much of the subprime "crisis" by repealing all property taxes which can double the monthly mortgage payment.

Loyal Democrat
writes, "In time, all housing and material goods should be allotted in this manner. This would eliminate greed and reward correct thinking and actions."

The key is the second part of the last statement. If only we can get everyone singing from the same sheet music, all will be well. Those pesky conservatives just ruin everything. Long time, no see.

Crisis? What crisis?
Papers this morning are encouraged by the rising sales of homes/condos here on the Treasure Coast of southeast Florida. Yes, the median prices have fallen, but to more realistic levels, and now the buyers are coming back into the market.

Ron
McCain is proposing the same thing on gasoline. Since the government makes much more per gallon then the oil companies, this should buy quite a few votes. Let's eliminate the sales tax on food and food prices would be back down to where they were.
It also might help if we quit paying ethanol producers tax dollars to turn our corn into a poor substitute for fuel.

Loyal Democrat
Another excellent cynical post on the mortgage fiasco and the federal government. You sound as crazy as any real liberal that I've read.

Kudos

Manufacturing Jobs
Talent scout correctly points out that we have more waiters and bartenders than manufacturing workers. What he misses is why this is so. The US produces more steel today than in 1950, with about 1/5 the number of steelworkers. In 1969, I engineered a manufacturing production line with scores of workers manually putting fasteners into plastic parts. That would take 3 technicians and a few robots today. When I finish typing this, I have to get back to work on a semiconductor processing device; the device is designed and made in the USA by 100 super-skilled engineers and scientits. It is then shipped to China, Taiwan, etc., where scores of low-paid workers manually put the product in and out. We certainly do need to boost domestic manufacturing if we are to maintain our technology edge. But pining for the bad old days of mass factory labor is futile.

Great Depression from gov. interference
"Why did the Depression occur, after arguably the most laissez faire period in U.S. history?"

It occurred from govt. intervention. The federal reserve interfered with the money supply, giving us a protracted period of inflation (the 20s) then tightening the crap out it (the 30s).

On top of that, we had Hoover. Calling Hoover a do-nothing president is like saying Bush is all about diplomacy. Hoover gave us wage controls, price controls, higher taxes, an increased budget deficit, and the Smitt-Hawley tariff.

If we didn't have Hoover and the Fed interfering in the economy, the Great Depression would have never happened.

Sky not falling
... but downturn underway. America has ALWAYS thrived on small businesses, started and expanded with the backing of real estate equity. We have just collectively lost billions in real estate equity in the past two years. Some significant portion of the 80%+ of small business start-ups and expansions that are backed by real estate equity will NOT happen in the near future. And some portion of the 70% of ALL new jobs that are created by small business will NOT be created in that same period.

It is absolutely incorrect for people to say that owning a home matters only to the psychological welfare of the individual. Home ownership is a method of generating home equity -- hence, wealth, and capital -- and is therefore a "capital sump" for our economy as a whole. We have just lost a whole lot of it with the decline in real estate values.

We'll come about, if the government will leave well enough alone, and let the markets work. (Note to Fed: PLEASE, PLEASE stop lowering your rate.) But real estate values will have to go back up before we do. The less what we have, collectively, is worth, the poorer we all are, and the less likely to invest, spend, and employ each other.

more great depression info
The "great" president FDR continued the failed policies of Hoover and created a lot of his own.

The great depression was a product of stupid policies from dim-witted politicians.

LD
Might I encourage you to update your blog?

This would be an excellent opportunity to explain exactly who should be entrusted with the authority to tell us what kind of house they will allow us to live in, how big of a yard they will allow us to have, what kind of landscaping scheme they would approve of, when and where we can attend our mandatory "How To Landscape In An Organically Approved Fashion So We Stop Harming The Planet With Our Evil Lawn Chemicals" class, and where I will be permitted to buy that new-fangled rotary push mower personally endorsed for our use by the Holy Father Albert Gore, Jr.

Thanks in advance.

Warmest Regards,
A Big Fan.

on a side note, why do so many people fear the business cycle? The credit and housing markets will recover. I don't recall any downturn in the market being permanent. Ever.

Affordable Housing
I for one am glade about the so called housing crisis. Prices are so ridiculous in some states, its only common sense that they would have to fall down after reaching thier peak. I only wish it could continue for another ten years when i will be building or buying my own home.

Speculators are a real problem!
John got this part right “Many of those were speculators seeking flip profits” and on ABC news in Florida foreclosures are up 50% this year already and 100% for the past year the other night. Also, please note that in the same broadcast they said that homes in Florida are 20% to 40% over priced. Yes there is a crisis in America and it is the “Economy Stupid!” I for one am tired of bailing out bad business, John talk about all the bad businesses that “WE” with our money have put back into a failed bank account so the bank don’t lose money, yet the business is still doing day to day operations. They left the consumer holding the bag and looking for a way out yet, the business that went under and still doing business is fine. John it looks more like how can I take money from the consumer and never having to pay it back or better yet I got my money now you get yours. Responsibility and morality in business looks to have gone right down the toilet. Worst of all is the simple fact that the Company / Small Business owner has done nothing to cause this economic problem, nothing. It is the consumer that has caused “ALL” of the problems we now face alone. John the biggest problem I see is the speculators (commodities /futures market) wanting to make a quick buck and we the people can no longer afford to pay the prices set by business.

Edgtho
Request noted. The effects of an IED hit to the head have slowed my pace a tad. Now THERE is some fodder for my detractors to work with!

John; the sky is not falling?
John; check out this news line.. "Supreme Court says police may search even if arrest invalid"

John; what next do we have to lose? The Amendments to the Costition, Amendnent IV, says point blank YOU NEED A WARRANT FIRST! This makes everyone, even a traffic stop, at risk!

The name of the game is cycles
Even in a good economy there are pockets of bad times. I would guess when the car came along buggy makers and horse breeders suffered.

Fibrosius: we have a lot more freedoms to lose as government increases. Can't use certain light bulbs. Can't drive certain cars. I could go on but you get the point.

I missed nothing, to my point
Jersey48 writes: 2008 11:48 AM
Manufacturing Jobs
Talent scout correctly points out that we have more waiters and bartenders than manufacturing workers. What he misses is why this is so.
------
ts:
I never missed that at all, its another side issue to the entire subject is all.
I could bring many side issues into this and say you "missed" them too.
But I understand no man alive can cover all angles to this problem from any one post.

Ok, now that we got that out of the way, let me address "your" point.

----------


Jersey48 writes:


The US produces more steel today than in 1950, with about 1/5 the number of steelworkers. In 1969, I engineered a manufacturing production line with scores of workers manually putting fasteners into plastic parts. That would take 3 technicians and a few robots today. When I finish typing this, I have to get back to work on a semiconductor processing device; the device is designed and made in the USA by 100 super-skilled engineers and scientits.
--------
ts:
All true
But here is what it does not address and I could say "missing".
Manufacturing jobs have not decreased whatsoever, but are growing, just NOT in America.
They are growing in China, Taiwan, Mexico, Bangladesh and many other nations, just NOT in America.
Reason?
Wages are CHEAPER in those nations.
And by by-passing the American worker the corporations increase THEIR PROFIT.
Which is the bottom line, and to **** with the American Standard of living workers here face compared to those poverty stricken nations.
See what all you missed?







Loyal Democrat
I guess it pays to know who is who around here. When I first read your post I thought it was the scariest thing I'd read since Mein Kampf and Marx. But I didn't doubt for a minute that some moronic liberal had posted it. Then I read further and realized it was a parody. LOL

Too funny. You've pegged them.

Understanding Tariffs
And who it is exactly who wanted them before globalizing America.

The turn of the century and up through the 1940's 50's 60's 70's it was the American Corporations.

Their biggest market for selling their wares was right here in America.
And the Tariffs allowed them to charge higher prices for what they made compared to it being made in other nations, due to the wages of those nations.

Now that the corporations have gone international, they do not want Tariffs.
So they can ship out the manufacturing and get ti all built cheaper, but return it here to sell to all us consumers in America.
Last thing in the world they now want is Tariffs, so they can make their goods overseas and sell it here making the huge profits they are making doing this.

See folks, the rich and powerful corporations do not give damn about America, the workers, our standard of living or any of this, they care about profits is all.

Since they own this government, as they did when they wanted Tariffs to keep out competition in the last century, they now do not cause it would bring down their PROFITS.
PLUS the tax money raised off the tariffs would lighten the burden of government budgets on all us "consumers" out here.
And the corporations to not give a flying flip about any of that, just their profits matter to them.



PS
I am the same person as Joy, but somehow I got 'logged out' of Townhall and haven't been able to log back in. This has happened before and I had to sign back up using a different username, email, etc. Has this happened to anyone else? I get nothing but an error page when trying to log back in. I've tried for days.


Joyyyy
Yes and it has to do with how Windows is configured. I had problems until I reformatted my hard drive and reloaded windows.

Alien, you need to do
more reading up on the U.S. Health care system.
America spends untold amounts on healthcare because
1) ALL people, REGARDLESS of ability to pay (including those who have crossed our borders illegally!!) are given the gold standard of treatment. They are also given this treatment regardless of whatever lifestyle choices or genetic predispositions they have for certain diseases (or diseases they bring with them from their third world countries.)

2) Health care authorities, like the CDC, have spent millions convincing people they have some kind of illness (most often more than one!!) and need treatment (usually pharmaceutical) for it.
This leads to millions of dollars being spent for health care of questionable "diseases."

3) Children are medicated out the wazoo for being children. Parents have been told that their children are "uncontrollable," "cannot read by age 4," "daydream," "have fantasy friends and lives," and so on. Millions of health care dollars spent for this idiocy.

4) Disease laboratory values are continually being lowered so as to create whole new populations of people with "diseases." The same diseases that then require pharmaceutical intervention and chronic health care monitoring.
Look at values for blood pressure, sugar, and cholesterol for examples of this.

Jersey48
Your comments regarding productivity are well founded! I returned to a former employer after 20 yrs in the USAF and found a workforce that was less than 20% of what had been there when I left, yet the quantity of product was actually higher than it had been with the larger workforce. The jobs that have been shipped overseas are the low end, low paying, low skill labor intensive jobs not the high end jobs. That scenario is, however, changing as many technical positions (software/design engineering) are being outsourced.
I remember a political cartoon where two guys were sitting at a bar and one turns to the other and asks "..remember when we were looking to the future and dreaming of completely automated factories? What made us think that we'd get paid?"

Right on, Mr. Stossel!
Most Americans today don't know what hard times are. I shudder to think what would happen if this country were to go into a real recession.

A better idea...
Put the morgage bankers who lied to people in jail, take the companies assets to pay off the morgages, confiscate the houses, give back the escrow to owners, sell the houses, put the money back into the treasury, and let's move on.

Then to deal with the perveyors of panic...
The NY Slimes does nothing but yell fire in the theater of public opinion....then they stand back and write another story about the ensuing chaos...why don't we hang them as well and solve 75% of the problem?

Vic
At first I thought that you were thinking of the French phrase "du jour" which translates as "of the day" as in "Flavor of the Day" so I looked up the definition of "de jure".

The second definition in the dictionary read: "2: based on laws or actions by the state < de jure segragation>"

Seeing that definition "Crisis de Jure" is most definitely accurate description of the situation!!

You would have been over the top correct to refer to the situation as "Crisis du Jour de Jure" i.e. "Crisis of the day based on laws or actions by the state"..... just one more problem created by the interference of Government.

Isn't it odd?
Maybe it's just me but it seems that economic doom proceeds every presidential election (at least in my adult lifetime). Would the Media exagerate financial and economic issues prior to an election to undermine consumer confidence and thereby make happen....at least temporarily....what they shout is already happening? Wouldn't that enhance the marketability of leftist candidates...who pander heaven on earth if we only elect them and give them a few more tax dollars and just a bit more centeralized government? Hmmmm?

bigpoppapuffandstuff
"Wouldn't that enhance the marketability of leftist candidates...who pander heaven on earth if we only elect them and give them a few more tax dollars and just a bit more centeralized government?"

You said a mouthful. The Democrats promised to solve all of our economic problems two years ago. Voters gave them control of Congress, and things have only gotten worse. Will the Democrats admit they failed? Ha!

Will Rogers used to say, "Politicians go into office on promises and come out on alibis. If we got one-tenth of what they promised us, there wouldn't be any need to go to heaven!"

Sorry....we are in a midst of a crisis.
Things were going great before the Great Depression, too. Stocks soared to new highs as there was a massive expansion of credit, not unlike that of the sub-prime mortgage disaster. The US was trying to help Britain with their return to the gold standard, dropped rates which accelerated the boom. The Austrian economist, Hayek predicted a "pop". ...so did Von Mises. As the over investment became apparent, credit started to tighten on its own as lenders became more cautious with their lending practices...sound familiar? Monetarist view the Fed should have cut the printing presses loose, expanding the boom (sound familiar?), but Austrian economists differed saying it was too little too late...the fed's actions are too slow, that a bank run was already underway.

the Fed's rescue of Bear Stearns appears to be very much a repeat, with debt pyramided upon debt. Add to the crisis the fact we are in the midst of a war, entitlement spending is out of control, oil prices are at all time highs, and a fiscally irresponsible federal and state/local governments, and we are on a verge of entitlement crisis. But we have our friend John Stossel to assure us that all is well, we have low inflation and 5% unemployment.




Number of major lenders that have imploded since late 2006: 252.

http://www.ml-implode.com

Bank write downs on loans in the 100's of Billions:

http://www.bankimplode.com

And we have yet to see the majority of mortgage resets (2008-2009).

This is leaking over to Europe, too.






From ME to you
I have seen it used both ways. It is actually latin (or from latin) and is the opposite for "defacto". In common terms it means that peple will treat something as fact when it is not fact.

Not ashamed...
I can`t agree with your reasoning on the high cost of health care. Poor people do by law get emergency treatment in US hospitals, but the poor in general do not get anywhere close to the level of care and treatment that the affluent and the insured see.

Your second and fourth points alleging some grand cabal involving CDC and clinical labs is just blarney and you have no evidence or even an accusation from anyone reputable to back it up.

I would offer other causes for the very high cost of American health care:

-It is very high quality...really the best in the world for the general population. Most technological and pharmaceutical innovation is done in America and somebody has to pay.

-Over 40% of health care costs result from use and abuse of alcohol and tobacco. Absent these two devils, our incidence of heart disease, cancer, diabetes, and hypertension would plummet...along with costs.

-We have an obsession with longevity, at any cost. A very high percentage of medical expense is incurred in the last six months of life, usually involving a very old person and scores of doctors, nurses, expensive and ineffective treatments. While this is a moral and ethical question, it is also a financial one.

-

ALIEN writes:
"Why did the Depression occur, after arguably the most laissez faire period in U.S. history?"

I tried to answer that question in a fictional story I wrote for the internet. Even though I had studied history for many years, (the years between the two World Wars in particular) I found that the best I could do to sum it up was:

“There is not one single answer I can give you, Zatanna. There were many things that went wrong, just one or two would not have had such a terrible effect."

I then went on to list the natural disasters, the social climate, the economic failiers and the working conditions of the twenties and early thirties, yet I knew that the list was incompleat.

Rediculous
"Mortgage Crisis," shouts the New York Times. The Times has used the term "subprime crisis" at least 11 times.


John Stossal still has a home so even if a million people lose theirs there obviously is no crisis. What an astute objective reporter.
Rediculous.

All sorts of experts in economics from Noreli Rubini to Alan Greenspan have suggested this is possibly the biggest economic crisis since the Great depression (also lead by the Republicans). But of course Stossal thinks he knows more then the experts on these matters ecause why he has a nice house so how can things be that bad.


muirgeo
Uh, the word is "ridiculous"...no e's. Mr. Stossal still has a home, probably several homes, because...

a) he can spell and write and read things like a mortgage contract, so he knows he must pay to keep the home.

b) he educated himself and works hard and doesn`t overextend. Oh sorry, that means spend more than you make.

I know these are rather mundane conservative concepts, not very popular with you "progressives", but they do help keep a roof over the head.

LAISSE FAIRE? NOT.
Although government dependent leftists of many stripes will tell you that business is evil.
Only business can create and distribute products and services that create a pool of tax money for libs to redistribute to their dead beat friends and causes.
But to suggest that even the most Conservative of Conservatives has or would have a LAISSE FAIRE policy is so ridiculous to be insane.
There is so much government intervention, taxation and regulation and interference with the very businesses that feed the monster as to be beyond belief.
Companies leave America on a daily basis because of taxation and regulation. Not to mention OSHA and UNIONS.

Mortgage industry
I work in the mortgage industry. I do wholesale mortgages for a major bank. We do need more government intervention in mortgage. I see corruption everyday. These brokers they are straight commision willing to do anything to keep their flow of money.

The brokers are making up bank statements, verification of employment, lying about liens on their customers title insurance. In order to get there customers in homes that they can't afford. Most of the brokers are making a solid $5000 per mortgage, so the ones that are corrupt are really making a killing all at the expense of the American people. We need some referees.

salty writes:
"I can`t agree with your reasoning on the high cost of health care. Poor people do by law get emergency treatment in US hospitals, but the poor in general do not get anywhere close to the level of care and treatment that the affluent and the insured see."

That's just one of the perks of working hard to become "affluent and insured." If people get it for "free" what's the incentive to work for it? And somebody has to pay for it, right? Why should the "affluent and insured" be forced to pay for yours AND their health care? What's the incentive for them to become "affluent and insured?"

The answers to these questions are why socialism fails EVERY TIME.

Odd that you would say this and make a conservative case (almost specifically dealing with THIS issue.)

Are you sure you don't want to rethink that? Or where you quoting someone that I didn't catch?

Hondo
Then government only needs to get involved so much as to enforce the laws that already exist. You are talking about fraud. That's ALREADY illegal.

I say this over and over and over, and it seems to go over people's heads. No new laws are needed, especially when our government refuses to enforce the ones they already have.

Socialism doesn't fail
Vindex writes:

The answers to these questions are why socialism fails EVERY TIME.



Depending on the definition every successful developed nation is a social democracy. What fails, what doesn't even exist in nature is Libertarianism.
I don't agree with pure socialism but it does in fact survive in the wild. Libertarianism does not exist and has never existed in the wild. It's ideologically inconsistent with civilized society and human nature.






Sub-prime rip off
The sub-prime crisis is nothing more then a trillion dollar high tech financial bank robbery.

http://www.boingboing.net/2008/02/26/subprime-primer-stic.h tml

Who Caused The Subprime "Crisis"?
Scottie wrote earlier that "The current "Crisis" is the result of government intervention in the market in the first place. The Community Reinvestment Act fined banks for not making sub-prime loans in their communities, and now that the chickens have come home to roost, those same banks are being demonized as "predatory lenders" for making the very loans the government forced upon them."

And, who was one of those lovely "fair housing" lawyers responsible for the Community Reinvestment Act--Obama! He worked for a firm that lobbied for just such changes.

Banks would not make loans to people with little income or collateral and many of these same people just happened to be minorities. So, instead of realizing banks were just doing sound business, fair housing lawyers cried "racism" and forced these new laws to be created.




CRA & more conservative dis-inormation
It's sad when you have to mis-represent the facts to support your ideology.

The subprime mess is a shining example of un-regulated free-market failure... the scope of the disaster was lessened only by government intervention which the finance and Wall Street "free-marketeers" cried for and excepted willingly when they understood the scope of their failures.


CRA was enacted in 1977. The sub-prime lending at the heart of the current crisis exploded a full quarter century later.

In 2004 The Bush administration announced plans to sharply weaken CRA regulations, pulling small and mid-sized banks out from under the law's toughest standards. Yet sub-prime lending continued, and even intensified -- at the very time when activity under CRA had slowed and the law had weakened.

It is hard to blame CRA for the mortgage meltdown when CRA doesn't even apply to most of the loans that are behind it. As the University of Michigan's Michael Barr points out, half of sub-prime loans came from those mortgage companies beyond the reach of CRA.

Perhaps one in four sub-prime loans were made by the institutions fully governed by CRA.

Most important, the lenders subject to CRA have engaged in less, not more, of the most dangerous lending. Janet Yellen, president of the San Francisco Federal Reserve, offers the killer statistic: Independent mortgage companies, which are not covered by CRA, made high-priced loans at more than twice the rate of the banks and thrifts. With this in mind, Yellen specifically rejects the "tendency to conflate the current problems in the sub-prime market with CRA-motivated lending.? CRA, Yellen says, "has increased the volume of responsible lending to low- and moderate-income households."

From:

http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=did_liberals_ca use_the_subprime_crisis



Vindex
Great then, we agree! The government needs to get involved.

vindex
My thinking is fine, thank you. In response to an earlier comment, I was stating the fact that the affluent and the insured get better medical treatment than the poor. They also get better housing, better food, better cars, etc. Didn`t say that was good or bad, just that it was true.

muirgeo
You're seriously going to use a liberal blogger as a reference and expect anybody to take you seriously?

Bring some facts, not opinions, and certainly not opinions from a source that proudly proclaims their liberal bias.

Unca Alby
You pick a single sentence from that post that you think isn't factual and provide some factual basis. The article cites Janet Yellen, president of the San Francisco Federal Reserve and prepared Testimony of Michael S. Barr
Professor of Law, University of Michigan Law School.

I know you guys don't like facts and think you can dismiss them out of hand but I've got the facts on my side and I'm pretty certain you can't come up with anything to significantly counter what I referenced.

muirgeo
"but I've got the facts on my side"

Ok. Let's hear some.

Wait for the Election
No, the sky is NOT falling! I promise, when the election is over and the Dems are back in complete power things will begin to improve very quickly. Oil prices will plunge, the mortgage mess will not be near crisis levels, food prices will moderate and the dollar will begin to rise. And, you know what, the Dems will have done absolutely NOTHING for these changes to begin to be chronicaled in the media. Just the very existence of a Dem controlled federal government will fix things, along with help from a cooperative media.

Of course, our taxes will STILL be raised, government regulation will accelerate, the Unions and Trial Lawyers will have a field day, etc.

But, one thing will not change, one crisis will continue and that is Islamic Terrorism. Although the far left does not think there is a terrorism problem, some bad things are certain to happen because our defenses will be allowed to deteriorate - hey, the war on terrorism is just a bumper sticker and when we ignore it, it will just go away. When the bad things happen it will not be the Dems fault and they will rush to negotiate with our enemies

Yep, there are some real problems out there, but the extent of the crisis is being aggressively hyped for political purposes! Look at the PERCENTAGES(unemployment, federal deficit, foreclosures, inflation, etc.) not absolute numbers. Things have been worse in the past.

You have to mis-represent the facts
muirgeo wrote:
It's sad when you have to mis-represent the facts to support your ideology.
The subprime mess is a shining example of un-regulated free-market failure...

~~~~~~~

Now, that is funny.

Section 8 of the U.S. Constitution gives powers to Congress which exclude the possibility of a free market existing within the U.S. Many Federal laws were never been suspended in the sub prime mortgage markets. I believe every state in the union has usury laws and a finance code.

My local county has regulations about construction and zoning which are difficult for any company to evade. My state requires all corporations which operate in the state to register within the state and it also regulates the definition of a corporation within its borders.

Free markets require a government which has no mechanism to regulate markets. To the best of my knowledge, all government levels (local, city, state, federal, etc.) in the U.S. have the power to regulate markets.

It seems to me that muirgeo is changing the definition of "free-market" and of "un-regulated" to support his/her ideology.

Now, that is funny.

Broker Crooks
The statements by hondo are true. Nobody seems to comment on the brokers who wrote these flawed mortgages. And, these greedy slimballs are now sitting in their beachfront condos counting their ill gotten gains. Let's see if I can write on average 2 mortgages per day at a $5,000 commission each I should be able to gross about $2,000,000 per year even with a few weeks vacation and some days off to play golf at the club.

Of course, there were also a lot of greedy, as well as stupid, bankers who bought into the entire scam. But, they and those arrogant hedge fund managers have been left holding the bag.
Sign Up to Post Your CommentsSign Up to Post Your Comments
If you are already registered, click here to login. Otherwise, please take a few seconds to register with Townhall.com. Once you sign up, you’ll be able to post your comments immediately, use the action center, get podcasts, and more!
Note: Fields marked with a red asterisk (*) are required.
Salutation:
First Name:
*
Last Name:
*
Email:
*
Nickname:
*
Note: Nick name will be shown when you post comments.
Address 1:
*
Address 2:
City:
*
State:
*
Zip:
*
Phone:
      
Your daily must-read of conservative columns, cartoons and news. Coulter, Sowell, Krauthammer and more.
(Bi-Weekly) We highlight the best opportunities from our partners for surveys, action items and more.