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Wednesday, November 28, 2007
John Stossel :: Townhall.com Columnist
The Free Market Does It Better
by John Stossel
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Was the Copenhagen Global Warming Summit Walk-Out a Win for the U.S.?


Another global warming skeptic has dared speak up. Meteorologist John Coleman, founder of the Weather Channel, calls global warming "the greatest scam in history".

"Environmental extremists, notable politicians among them create this wild 'scientific' scenario of the civilization threatening environmental consequences from Global Warming unless we adhere to their radical agenda. I have read dozens of scientific papers. I have talked with numerous scientists. There is no runaway climate change. The impact of humans on climate is not catastrophic. Our planet is not in peril. In time, a decade or two, the outrageous scam will be obvious."

I suspect he's right.

But what if he's wrong?

I've argued that even if global warming is something to worry about, it's dangerous to look to government to fix the climate. Government is a blunt instrument, riddled with self-serving politics and special-interest pandering. To expect it to do something as complicated as calibrate regulations and taxes to fine-tune the climate -- without making many people poorer and a few cronies richer -- is naive.

But that doesn't mean we can do nothing. We have a powerful generator of solutions if we let it work: the free market.

The market has solved environmental problems many times in the past. Before the automobile, America's cities suffered from a terrible pollutant. It bred disease and emitted noxious odors.

It was horse manure.

As economist Nobel laureate Robert Fogel said, "There were 200,000 horses in New York City at the beginning of the 20th century defecating everywhere. When you walked around you were breathing pulverized horse manure". From such air and water pollution, people contracted cholera, typhoid and other deadly diseases.

When the internal-combustion engine came along, the air and ground became much cleaner. Environmentalists romanticize the days before the car, but who wants to go back to that filth and disease?

How might the free market -- which relies on consent, not coercion -- be better than government at addressing global warming? Policy analyst Gene Callahan points out that government is a big part of the problem because it encourages overuse of fossil fuels. For example, use of highways is not subject to market pricing, so it appears to be free. The resulting traffic jams are bad for the environment.

We'd use less coal if the government didn't create regulatory obstructions to nuclear power.

The creative market process -- if unburdened by state subsidies and regulations -- would discover alternative fuels that bureaucrats can't even dream of. Today, an energy maverick is likely to be punished by the government, as Bob Teixeira learned when he had the audacity to run his Mercedes on soybean oil. If climate danger is real, the profit motive will drive entrepreneurs to find technologies to reduce CO2.

Markets outshine governments in innovation and flexibility. Those virtues would come into play if global warming does become a problem. "For example, the financial industry, by creating new securities and derivative markets, could crystallize the 'dispersed knowledge' that many different experts held in order to coordinate and mobilize mankind's total response to global warming," writes Callahan. "Weather futures can serve to spread the risk of bad weather beyond the local area affected. Perhaps there could arise a market betting on the areas most likely to be permanently flooded. That may seem ghoulish, but by betting on their own area, inhabitants could offset the cost of relocating should the flooding occur."

A less-regulated insurance industry would have a strong profit motive to anticipate problems from any warming and set prices for property coverage appropriately. Insurance companies would rely on the best scientific information because, unlike government, if they make a mistake, they face bankruptcy.

The most important thing we can do is not to impede production of wealth. As the late Aaron Wildavsky said in his wonderful book "Searching for Safety," "Wealthier is healthier." A rich society is resilient and able to respond to unforeseen threats.

People in the developing world desperately need prosperity. Blocking their development on the flimsy promise of climate "fixes" will only make hard lives harder. Their primitive environments are killing them.

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About The Author
John Stossel blogs at http://blogs.abcnews.com/johnstossel/ is an award-winning news correspondent and author of Myths, Lies, and Downright Stupidity: Get Out the Shovel--Why Everything You Know is Wrong.
 
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WOW!
No Comments yet. I figured the envirowacko's, WOG's (that is "Worshippers Of Gore")and other idiot liberals would be all over this one. You have once again DARED to refute the academy award & nobel prize winner Al Gore. Just who do you think you are, some down to earth thinking individual?.
Keep up the good work John.

This reminds me of...
...the joke news article that was made so many years ago,when a bunch of wise guys started a movement to put diapers on horses in Washington.The police horses and horse drawn carriages for tourists.Some newspapers fell for it and at the time it was reported as fact.I still laugh it.

Easy Fix
The root of the problem is way too many people. While abortion has helped in that respect more needs to be done. Obviously the quickest route to fewer people is through the use of war. Many on the Left are against war but I suspect it is because they see them being fought for the wrong reason. All we have to do to get them to go along with the War on Terror is to sell it as a population control device. If we were to reterm the War on Terror to be 'Late Term Abortion for the Mentally Defective Religious Zealots' we could have this thing wrapped up quick. I know it's a mouthful and there is no way Bush could get it out unmangled but it would give the Leftnuts another reason to make fun of him.

Put the Jews in Charge
Daddy used to say that if someone announced tomorrow that next year on this date the world would be under sixty feet of water, the Catholics would pray for a miracle, the Protestants would organize a protest march, and the Jews would start figuring out how to live under water.

Put the Jews in charge. Then even if Global Warming does prove to be true, we will all be able to live under water.

AudiR10
Jews indeed have an impressive record of innovation and dealing with disaster. It has been root hog or die for them for many centuries. When threat is constant and ongoing, dealing with danger becomes a cultural characteristic. Affluence and detatchment from violence have softened Americans both physically and mentally. If times get tough, we will root hog or die too.

Child Labor in China and India

john konop
yes , that is free trade. it is an orwellian term of course. it could only be made worse if it was called freedom trade. both poliical parties favor it.

True Lib and War
Lib, you have it correct. The problem is not that the LEFT doesn't see the war on terror as good for the environment it is they think we are fighting the wrong people.

Now the whole reason for bring the troops home now thing makes sense. It is so the troops can kill AMERICANs since we are the ones the left hate and we are the worst offenders of the environment!!

Brilliant!!!!


I remember reading over 25 years ago ...
about a farmer who converted some of his farm equipment to run on ethanol he brewed from excess corn crops. The BATF shut him down because he had an illegal still. How dare he make alcohol that stiffs the government out of their FET?

Not generally understood
Liberals love to point to Europe's very effective train system and ask, "Why can't we have something like that here?"

The answer, which they'll never accept, is "the US government interfered, and guaranteed that will never happen."

The true culprit, and the reason for the US car culture, is the US government's project to build a free interstate highway system. I-10 through I-90, I-5 through I-95, a grid that covers the country, free to the public. It artificially took the cost of road maintenance away from those who use the roads, and put it on the taxpayer.

The result was a distortion of the market: with the cost of road maintenance removed from truck transport, trucking was cheaper than trains. The nation naturally developed a system of hauling freight that took advantage of the "free" roadways. Trains and airplanes, not similarly advantaged, suffered; with some exceptions, docks, tracks, stations and airports have to pay for themselves.

The genii is out of the bottle now. We can't go back. Look at Europe, which has few "free" roadways, and you'll see something like what the market should have developed.

Strange to find a free-market lesson in Europe, but true.

Inkkling, ironic isn't it! Trulib,
instead of "late term abortion", it should be "Retroactive abortion" as that is more accurate while still adhering to the left's facination with abortion.

I have an idea for all those that think that there are too many humans on earth and that is the source of all the problems. Start reducing humans with yourself as the example. You don't even have to worry about not getting into heaven due to suicide since you don't believe in heaven anyway.

Trulib - : )
That was a riot! Late term Abortion.

I burst out laughing. Gotta love it. : )

John Stossel: thank you
Finally an article I can agree with. Now if only conservatives would shut up and let the scientific free market do its thing in stead of using government to push their Christian hocus pocus.

trulib & tnsldr2
Wonderful- thanks for the laugh!

Ron on Gorebal Warring
Glaciers hold the water that is needed as condensation for the barren and frozen lands of this planet. This is the cause of drought and flooding. When glaciers melt, some water will run into the oceans to fill space presently filled by sea ice which will contract when it melts. Some water will thaw the ground below where the glacier was, and soak into the ground.

The heat of the sun, and the absence of cold from glaciers and sea ice will cause more water to be evaporated from the oceans, lakes, and rivers into the upper atmosphere than there presently is; and the winds will blow it evenly around the world, providing normal rainfall world-wide, even where there presently is drought, and barren and frozen land, preventing flooding.

The worldwide rainfall will cause long-dormant seeds under the glaciers and in the barren lands to sprout and grow into new plants. The new plants will inhale carbon dioxide and exhale oxygen, which we breathe. There will be so many new plants, that we might have to increase the amount of carbon dioxide we generate, to provide enough for all of them

A glacier in Greenland is melting, returning the land to the way it was a millennium ago. Larger crop yields are already the result, and the codfish have returned.

Parts of the world are still experiencing record low temperatures. Snow fell before the leaves, and over a month before winter started. We need global warming as soon as possible.

uber
What "scientific free market" are you referring to?

Scientists are either privately funded in their research, or publically funded. If privately funded, generally they are funded by those "eeeeeeevil corporations" that you Lefties love to whine about. I swear, if I have to hear just one more time about Exxon-Mobil and the AGW debate...

On the other hand, if they are publically funded (and this would include funding by the IPCC, which is funded by the UN, which is funded by donations from member governments, which are funded by... you guessed it, taxes!!!), then "free market" is an irrelevant concept. There can be no free market where the government has a hand.

You Lefties just never get it, do you?

Ron on the economy
If government had replaced all the many taxes with one proper tax for each level of government in 1946, we would have a first-class high-speed train system like Europe and Japan, along with state-of-the-art industries. We would also have many plants converting coal into clean-burning gas. Too bad that excessive Federal, state, county, municipal, and school taxation prevented all this.

uber can't seem to go ...
even one post without inject his atheism into his views. How passe'. Or is it that, like the homosexual, your atheism is so much a part of who you are that you can't be yourself without expressing everything in terms of your world view?

Should have been
uber can't seem to go ...
even one post without "injecting"

The Free Market Does It Better...
...but how does one respond when some of man's greatest achievements were the culmination of govt. participation and public funding? For example: The moon landing, and the internet. The moon landing would've been impossible without free enterprise, but it took govt. to harness and exhaust free enterprise's resources to make the achievement possible. Let's face it, there just weren't any profits to be had in landing on the moon. As for the creation of the internet, it took military funding, and university participation for us to be where we are today. Had we waited for the profit motive to kick in, would we be 10, 20, or more years behind we stand now?

I am as capitalistic as they come, but I do recognize that from time to time profit isn't catalyst for excellence. I believe we need to be flexible enough to recognize these times, but I also wonder is this current state of govt. capable of repeating the past achievements.

Over population?
Those who claim the world is over-populated or becoming over-populated are the most dangerous individuals there are. Don't ever believe them and don't ever fall for their "solutions".

If all the human beings in the whole world (6.8 billion) gathered in the State of Delaware and stood far enough apart to not be able to touch anyone in any direction with everyones arms outstretched (approximately 6 square feet each), they would only occupy two thirds of Delaware's land area. Delaware is the second smallest state in the United States, only larger than Rhode Island.

There is no over-population "problem". Human populations self regulate when free and unencumbered by oppressive intervention.

Perceived as Progressive
In always perceived as progressive Southern California, the monopoly SCE (Southern California Edison) has arranged to make energy production the sole propriety of big business. Other states are developing power grids that accommodate individual solar power producers, allowing them to sell back excess power to the grid. Here, we have government regulated, nay dominated, power suppliers.

But not to fear, our illustrious “Governator” is green. He will save us with his government devised and further controlling energy conservation plan. We will all see the light soon, through green lumen florescent light bulbs.

What’s the weather like in Texas this time of year? I think I need a new location.

Not the 1st Idiot to win a "Nobel"
QUOTE: "Dr. Gray says warming of the earth occurs naturally, humans not to blame for global warming! One of the world’s foremost meteorologists, Dr. William Gray, has joined the scientific DISSENT, calling global warming a theory of “people who don’t understand how the atmosphere works.”

At a packed lecture hall in North Carolina, Gray, a pioneer in the science of seasonal hurricane forecasts, said humans are not responsible for the warming of the earth. Instead, it occurs naturally through ocean cycles.

Richard John Neuhaus with the Cornwall Alliance, said: “There are many meteorologists, climatologists, people who have been following this for years and years, who are very skeptical about some of the inflated and reckless claims made about global warming." END

~ Do we want to believe another scare tactic paid for by a person to achieve recognition or REAL men of science? These come along about every 15-20 years! In the 60s it was over-population by the year 2000; 70s we were supposed to be dealing with an ICE AGE at the turn of the century; 80s was Acid Rain. NONE have come true foretold by doomsayers! Why support another wild and crazy "theory" that will be proven wrong in ten or twenty years?”

Greg in California
Texas is pretty warm, and winters are pretty mild, at least in Dallas/Ft Worth area. You'll need AC though, and heat, too. I lived there for a decade, and loved the weather. Not the crime, though, so have moved myself back to NH, despite the cold winters. (Come on Global warming! )

As to the stupid $8. light bulbs that supposedly last forever, I would like to say that is Baloney! I purchased several, like a good girl, despite my many reservations, and sure enough - THEY DO NOT last longer than regular light bulbs, and they don't put out half the light.

Just like the low flow toilet scam that forced you to flush twice every time - saving ZERO water, these new bulbs are just the latest in a long line of stupid GREEN crap that gets everyone to switch to their newest "save the world" experiment, and now we're all stuck with high priced, low light alternatives. I know I had to use the highest wattage, and multiple bulbs, to replace my regular 100 W bulbs, so where's the savings? Also, I've had several burn out in less time than a regular bulb would have lasted, so AGAIN, where's the savings?




Cars and trains
I believe that the first interstate was i80 started by Eisenhower.His purpose was to move the military cross country faster.Troop trains in those days were not given priorities over regular rail traffic.I know,because i was on one.The main reason we know longer have a good passenger rail system is simply the fact that theRR's make alot more money hauling freight.Amtrak is by and large a failure except where the pols. use it.

more vicitimhood
So the free market can best deal with this problem that doesn’t exist? That’s certainly covering all your bases. Stossel is absolutely correct that the oil/auto industries are heavily subsidized. (Throw in coal too.) But wasn’t it the Republicans who opposed the Democrats when they tried to eliminate the oil subsidies? Stossel is barking up the wrong tree. In the 1980s David Stockman was going to eliminate subsidies for both oil/autos and transit. Guess which one endured?

We need to lose the victim mentality and realize that government involvement is necessary. Mexico and China have fewer regulations. Do you want their air quality?

Nam65-66
I was invited to a dinner party in a VERY LIBERAL suburb. On every block in this neighborhood, there was a dog pooping zone. They were all griping about how we should go back to horses. I INNOCENTLY ASKED what they would do about horse poop. I was told DOG POOP IS NO PROBLEM, WHY WOULD HORSE POOP BE?!

KM
Your trials with the fluorescent light bulbs brought a tear to my eye. Try installing a photovoltaic or a solar water heating system. Yes, moving to a more secure energy system will require working out some bugs. But I think of the inconveniences our folks in Iraq (along with their families) are going through because of our addiction to Mid-East oil. Working out those bugs doesn’t seem so bad then.

Cam
If you really want to cry, try accidentally breaking a compact flourescent bulb; since they contain mercury, the EPA-mandated cleanup will cost in the multiple thousands of dollars.

As for your "war for oil" bit, purvey your lies elsewhere.

FM
My office building has a special container for e-waste. No major effort needed to dispose of the broken light bulb.

The "war for oil" club includes such insiders as Alan Greenspan - never known to be a flaming liberal.

Trains
Actually, the reason our rails failed was not mostly the interstate system, but gov't meddling in the rail system.

In the past, private rail was both passenger and freight. passenger runs were mostly losing ventures (except for a few short high-traffic lines) and were used to make up some of the cost of shipping engines to a spot where they were needed, instead of just sending a bare engine. Passenger runs were not the profit making part, freight was.

Then the gov't nationalized most rail and split passenger and freight. Guess what? Freight still makes money, passenger lines do not.

Nor do they in Europe. Without massive subsidies, Europe would not have that "wonderful" passenger rail system either.

Europe also lacks most of the suburban sprawl of the US, making passenger lines easier to run than in the US, as there need to be fewer stops on a given line, but they still do not turn a profit in many parts of Europe. Subsidies are still the order of the day in Europe. So if you want a European style rail system, then get ready to shell out a lot more to Uncle Sam!

Cam
One, you are grossly distorting what Alan Greenspan actually said. Did you actually *read* his words, or did you just read the crowing about his book on DailyKrass or PuffHost when it came out?

If you had paid attention, you would know that they did not get it right, and that Greenspan publically corrected them after the hype.

Second, bully for you that your business is so green. What about folks in their home who change a lightbulb, and accidentally drop it and break it?

CFs are a miserable failure-in-process, which is typical of Leftist efforts.

PS
I find it hilarious, Cam, that you think that China is less regulated than the U.S. Or did you mean *purely* in the environmental vein?

FM
I saw Greenspan's interview on 60 Minutes with my own eyes. I lend more credibility to what someone writes and rewrites over and over in a memoir than what they're intimidated in to saying afterword by conservative collegues.

Yes, I would think the context of my post would indicate that Chinese industries are less regulated from an environmental standpoint.

Flourescent lights have been around for decades. "Folks in their home" who break one can do the same thing they should be doing with batteries and surplus paints and insecticides, dispose of it they way their garbage service asks them to. Is that too much to ask from all of you "patriotic" Americans?

FM
I watched Greenspan's 60 Minutes interview with my own eyes. It was perfectly consistent with his book. I lend more weight to what someone writes and rewrites over and over in a memoir as opposed to what they're intimidated into saying by one's conservative friends.

Flourescent lights have been around for decades. "Folks in their home" who break one can do the same thing they should be doing with batteries, old paint and insecticides, dispose of them as requested by their waste service. Is that too much to ask of "patriotic" Americans?

De-regulate Nuclear Power?
For most of this article, I am in agreement with John. However, as a retired Medical Radiologic Technologist of over 40 years, I can attest that if the private sector were to take over & self-regulate the use of radioactive materials, profit would ultimately trump public safety. While we might breathe easier from less coal burning, we all might also glow in the dark, and ultimately see the cancer rate in this country rise dramatically. There simply are not enough people in the general population who are knowledgeable enough in the area of radiation safety to motivate the masses to demand it as needed.

Cost
With the cost of the CF bulbs at between $4 - $9 each, and a pack of eight(8), 75 watt incandescent bulb (at Lowes) selling for $1.98, how much longer would you have to keep your lights on to cover this cost???

Cam: Are you a moron?
I am not talking about fluorescent tubes, which have been around for decades, but "compact fluorescents," which are the current darling of the green set.

Breaking a CF bulb requires thousands of dollars of cleanup - more than will be saved in energy bills by a LIFETIME of using these bulbs.

Texas - high tax state
Greg,

I just moved from California to Texas. I made a killing on my house and bought a small mansion but the property taxes here are outrageous. I would suggest moving to a state other than Texas.

Proof of Stossel
Look at state of environment in Canada, former-USSR (especially Russia), Mainland China and India--and then compare it with that in US.

Canada is the closest to US (and even with a lower populations, conditions in Montreal and Toronto are BELOW those of large US cities--Toronto fails EPA standards for pollution/haze MORE DAYS of the year than LA, which is thrice as large metro-population-wise and about 20 times larger metro-areawise).

In all the others (Russia, China, India), the state of the enviroment is absolutely deplorable.

All of this is due to (in all of these) government being sole enforcer of environmental standards.

Rich L. and TruLib
The term that I heard years ago was "Post natal abortion." Those libs love scientific jargon.
Anything to dress up ordinary words to make them sound more intellectual.

Great article
Thanks for another great article, John.

Keep the free market facts coming, maybe some of the big government advocates will eventually see the light.

Lets try this
Re Global Warming. How about we forget the fanatical concerns about atomic power and start building plants again. This would significantly reduce emissions. Then come up with a decent electric car that could go a couple of hundred miles at highway speeds (I want mine to be a BIG SUV). This is doable if the wacko's and their lawyers would go away. Another effect would be less dependence on oil, foreign or otherwise. (that would be a good thing right?)

Guess I am dreaming that would actually solve something.

PS forget the what do we do with the radioactive waste argument. Government already spent billions solving that we have a deep salt mine waiting already.

inkling_revival yeah but
we could have decent rail system but environmentalists wont let us fix the damn tracks. In NY 100 years ago engine 99 on NY Central Railroad could go from Albany to NYC in a little over an hour. Best speed today is about 3 hours. Tracks need straightening but would damage wet lands. Damn ducks can fly a straight like but not people go figure.

Ron
Isnt that what they once called they cycle of life? Oh sorry thats some Disney flick isnt it!

reader
Not that I have an special love affair for TX, but after living there for a year, I can say taxes are NOT that bad there.

How much are you paying in state income taxes? 0.
city income taxes? 0. Sure, sales taxes are higher than alot of places, but they are reduced to 6% for various big-ticket items (including automobiles,) and you're not getting socked with city sales taxes that friends of mine SoCal suffer through. Also, last I knew, you could deduct your sales tax against your fed return because the fed allow you to deduct income OR sales tax. No income tax=deducting sales tax.

You just went from; what I am assuming, was a CA homesteaded long-held property, to a TX McMansion that has an asessed value greater than your place in CA, and possibly a bit more in property tax to boot.


CF and EPA cleanup
EPA process for clean up? Anybody that follows that deserves to pay all that money. Wonder if the amount of mercury in a bulb is greater than the jar full we played with when we were kids. Is it more toxic than asbestos? Afterall asbestos is worse than plutonium isnt it? Geezzz

Guessing
Information on the news on Tuesday said the predictions for this year's hurricane season was way off. The prediction for 2005 was way off.

I have a question. If we can't predict something as basic as severity of a hurricane season....how in the hell can we predict world wide weather patterns 50 years into the future.

Oops I forgot .... the inventor of the internet did this scientific analysis.

FM
Flourescents and compact flourescents operate on the same principle and are largely made of the same materials. Cleaning up a broken CF costs "thousands of dollars"? The only way I can fathom this statement is that you heard it from conservative talking head.

Don - The '07 hurricane season was very severe if one cares about its impacts on Mexico and Central America.

What to do if your CF breaks
EPA Guidelines:
http://www.epa.gov/mercury/spills/index.htm#flourescent

Blogger solves ALL environmntal problems
Sorry about the provocative title.

If you are disappointed, please accept a full refund of the price of admission, and go back to whatever it was that you were doing.

The Environment (which has now replaced the Flag, Motherhood and Apple Pie in its significance to many Americans) is ONE area in which few people (Right or Left) can disagree that some intervention is required.

However, it is precisely in the TYPE of intervention (translated: control) that the Leftist ideology rears its ugly head.

Many of our societal problems have come from the institutions that we have created to limit the 'negatives' associated with capitalism. Most of those problems are actually worse than the ills that they were supposed to cure. We created the Dept of Education to monitor, control and even run our schools - but they don't benefit from a positive outcome! They get MORE money when more schools fail.
------------------excerpt ends-------------------
http://voice.townhall.com/g/25ee4081-bf16-4ff2-86b7-2830c06 89056


GO-BA-WA-MA as a cult
Sorry to introduce levity on this fine thread - but can y'all get behind a new name for the Global Warming Cult?

I propose that we right-wing, enviro-rapists refer to it as:

GO-BA-WA-MA

-OR-

GO-BA-WA-MI

See how easily it rolls off the tongue?

It also calls for Human Sacrifice, but that's an altogether different matter!

Taft sorry but
our browsers wont work with your link. The article gets block by our parental controls seems that whole site is pornographic. It's run by some pedophiles. Warning iits an infected site. :-)

This is not an ad
Honda is introducing its hydrogen-powered fuel cell car this coming summer, and I'm excited about it. I'm excited not because I'd "combat global climate change," but it would do a great deal in combating air pollution, and it's technology that builds toward the future.

To heck with those ethanol or hybrid cars that still rely on oil-based fuels. Hydrogen fuel cells are the way to go because they only emit water!

I would be the first to lease one of those Honda hydrogen cars, but at $600 a month, it's still a little outta my price range. Although I do have an idea ... if anyone wants to foot the bill for me and consider that their "carbon offset," maybe we can work something out (you there, Al?).

Taft Link
The link Taft supplies has nytimes in the address ... how can you believe what the NY Times has to say?

A free market does one thing only:
And that thing is to move resources to where they have the most economic value. That's it. Nothing else. A market creates wealth, but can have other adverse effects, such as pollution and child labor. So, we curb the market in some ways, as we must.

Occasionally, when resources move to where they have the most economic value, good environmental effects also result, but this is rare (hence Stossel's obscure horse manure example). Examples of the opposite are much easier to come by (clear cutting forests moves the trees to where they are most valued but destroys forests, coal remains a cheap source of heat energy but is a nasty pollutant, etc.).

I'm tired of the misconception that markets do anything else. It is a trap for simple minds.

CalVRWC small problem
A safe hydrogen/fuel cell car is a great idea but I'd wait till my local service station could fill me up. Of course with the proper equipment and a good supply of electricity you could do it yourself at home.

Jawls perhaps you missed this but
most of the US based lumber industry no longer just clear cuts they replant thus insuring their economic future. Seems to me thats a free market decision.

If the Free Market is our Salvation
why can't Town Hall make a website that actually
works.

AGW is a fraud and a scam.
The advocates on the U.N. panel are all bailing out. NASA data once corrected for their, ahem, error now shows that we are in a cooling trend. This however will not stop the liberals in congress from legislating based on the scam. Cap and trade swindles as well as taxes are all in the maing folks. Even 3 of the top 4 Republican candidates support this fraud.


Taft
Assoming the NYT is spot on (for once,) that completely refutes Stossel's argument?! Try again.

Taft's logic. A miniscule of old people suffered at the hands of capitalism, and perfection wasn't achieved=we must switch to marxism immediately.

Tell me I'm wrong and you're smarter than that.

CalVRWC

I hope what you shared is accurate. It's about time we started hearing more again re: H2 fuel cells. $600 is high, but I am very encouraged that the market is managing to introduce a new technology around that price if they can pull it off. It will be $4xx in a year.

Of course, back in '98, BMW was supposed to introduce a fuel-cell car by 2002.

hagar
I realize it's not without its logistical problems right now, but hey, if it works well, eventually I might be able to see the mountains here in So. Cal.

hagar: Even if that were correct...
...the point still remains that environmental goals are not always aligned with financial ones - in fact, they usually arent.

But still, you're oberservation is not quite correct. Each and every state regulates clear cutting. Whatever reasons loggers may give for selective logging, they are probably being forced to do it.

Taft -- The Nursing Home Problem
quoth the NYT: "Nursing homes, which received more than $75 billion last year from taxpayer programs like Medicare and Medicaid,"

See, there's your problem right there.

This isn't a Free Market. It's Government-Funded. So no wonder the level of care rivals that of public schools and VA hospitals.

Hydrogen powered autos
As you say they only emit water.Can you imagine if you had a couple thousand of them running around in Chicago in the winter.

Clear-Cutting Forests
Somebody show me an instance of clear-cutting on privately held forest lands. I should like to hear about it. I should also like to hear about an honest politician, or a surgeon who does house-calls.

Generally speaking, the only clear-cutting occurs on PUBLIC lands. It costs the lumber companies very little money, as it comes under the "public use" policy, where they have as much right to the publically-owned trees as hikers and campers. This is a very rational approach on the part of the logging companies -- get as much lumber out as quickly as possible, before somebody in government changes the rules.

You don't see nearly as much of this (if any at all) when the land is privately held. It's not conducive to long-term profitability to kill off your crop.

Again, it's an example of a problem NOT caused by the Free Market, but instead caused by government intervention and subsidies.

Jawls sometimes
I use logic instead of documentation. Seems obvious that a company that cant keep obtaining new forests (land in US getting expensive) would replant so they have a renewable resource. Its called agriculture. Now I do agree that financial and environmental goals dont always coincide but long term they can. Example: Oil even if the whole earth was full of it eventually we would use it all up. Once it becomes too scarce(and expensive) to meet demand alternatives will be created. As noted above in the hydrogen car discussion. Guess what it will be technology that resolves the issues. Today it could be solved but believe it or not oil is still cheap comparatively speaking. If we couldnt obtain oil the market will provide a solution.

John Konop
"Child Labor in China and India
Is this free trade? "

I was unable to view the video but I'm assuming you think this is a bad thing.

Back in the days when this country was struggling to survive, we had child labor too.

The fact is, it's a start. Ignorant liberals whine about evil corporations exploiting poor people in 3rd world countries. If they weren't there, the people would have no opportunities to help themselves at all.

Certainly, it's far from ideal to force children to work but in some places it's the only way to start pulling yourself up. It helped the people of the U.S. to the point where states are actually paying people to NOT work. ; )

Commando
Visit the Honda website. There's even a commercial airing on tv about it, too.

The car will only be intro'd in a few markets though, and indeed $600 is high, but like I said, if someone wants to pay that for me and consider that their carbon offset, I'd love to drive it around. I think it would be more satisfying and makes more sense than giving that money to some company who only plants a tree or two and pockets the rest of the money.

LobaAzul
He knows. It's been pointed out to him several times that, pre-Industrial Revoution, "child labor" was not only accepted but the norm; the idea of childhood as a protected, care-free time is a thoroughly modern one.

Still, he bangs his gong incessantly, like... well, like a non-working child who finds his way into Mommy's pots and pans. And it's about that pleasant to listen to.

union dude ...
"Can you imagine if you had a couple thousand of them running around in Chicago in the winter."

It's not like the car has Niagara Falls gushing from its tailpipe. Just little droplets of water. Probably not much more than a normal gas engine emits from the tailpipe.

*snort*!
Thanks for the heads up.

I've found that most liberals really do know and have heard the truth - they just choose to cover their ears and shout "LALALALALALALALALAAAAAAA"

Open-mindedness
For all of the ridiculous accusations of Marxism and communism, the left is perfectly capable of acknowledging that the free market/private sector is far superior for the vast majority of industries. We also recognize that the public sector fairs better in a few sectors: health care (proven by the rest of the industrialized world), education (as indicated in the Bush Administration's study), and environmental protection.

But the right can't possibly admit that the public sector is better at anything.

CalVRWC
Water vapor is still a green house gas.

goodbottomus
fortunetly its naturally occurring

Cam
First you can't keep the differences between fluorescent tubes and CFs straight, and now, straight-faced, you make stupid assertions like this one:

"We also recognize that the public sector fairs better in a few sectors: health care (proven by the rest of the industrialized world), education (as indicated in the Bush Administration's study), and environmental protection."

Health care? Is this proven by the superior cancer-rate survival enjoyed in the U.S. as compared to... well, anywhere else, industrialized or not?

Education? Are you SERIOUSLY arguing the public schools do a better job of education than private schools? Can you REALLY be that stupid?

McCain Is for fighting global warming.
Sen. McCain Answers Question on Global Warming

WATCH VIDEO


http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/sen-mccain-answers -question-on-global-warming



charm school
It would help us all if you could share where you heard that breaking a CF light would cost you thousands of dollars to clean up.

Until last year, the US had shown no improvements for decades in cancer rate survival. I know conservatives love to argue comparative international health rates while ignoring the findings of organizations who actually study the subject, but the WHO continues to show US health ranking in the 30s.

Read the Bush Administration's study (which they supressed for a year). It shows students in public schools scoring higher than their private school counterparts.

Gov projects
"The moon landing would've been impossible without free enterprise, but it took govt. to harness and exhaust free enterprise's resources to make the achievement possible. Let's face it, there just weren't any profits to be had in landing on the moon."

Right. It shouldn't have been done -- it was a giant waste of money.

"As for the creation of the internet, it took military funding, and university participation for us to be where we are today."

The government had very little to do with the Internet we have today -- almost all of the protocols were developed privately. If the gov' had run it all along, it would still be a 10-university private network!

UBER IGNORANCE, DISHONESTY
uber writes: Wednesday, November, 28, 2007 8:59 AM
John Stossel: thank you
Finally an article I can agree with. Now if only conservatives would shut up and let the scientific free market do its thing in stead of using government to push their Christian hocus pocus.

===========

Uber, I'm a conservative. How about you and I take IQ and science tests given by a reputable firm in that business. I'll pay for the tests, and the loser pays the winner $10,000.
I made that offer to two prominent liberals who spoke ignorantly and condescendingly, as you do, and both slunk off because they'd be out $10,000.
And they knew it.

Now Christianity may be "hocus pocus" to you, but it is the foundation of America. Can you say "Mayflower Compact"?
Can you say "One nation, under God"?

How about "annuit Coeptis."
For you ignorant liberals, that means "God has favored our undertaking."
I could go on at great length about our Christian heritage and its magnificent benefits, but one ought not cast pearls before liberal swine.

Gorebal Warming
Apparently Gore and his prophets who endorse his views, are akin to the prophet Mohammed. As such they have given us the "final revelation", there is no debate on this issue, much as Mohammed proclaimed about Allah and Islam.

Now, we have Pasqual's Wage upon us:” what if we're wrong?” More fear from those of a religious bent who wish to control behavior through fear. (Do not think that the republicans corner the market on religion – the left is just as guilty of this absurd ideology).

We just can't get enough of religion and dogma.

Grow up.

Start being responsible adults who take ownership of their actions - whether that's being wasteful or conserving resources. Own your reality of actions.

Stop looking for someone else, your government, and/or whomever else you may claim as your deity, to save you.

Save yourself.

Act responsibly.

Behave with accountability.

It is inherently anti-American to force people to accept your narrow view of the world.

Freedom is nothing if not about thought and choice.

If societies agree that each individual is accountable for his/her actions; as such each should be response-able for those choices, which create his/her life; then freedom is abounding.

It follows that those who are endorsing freedom are then endorsing free markets, which will take their lead from accountable, responsible adults who wish to conserve resources responsibly and stop forcing a narrow view of life onto others who don’t “believe” as they do, then companies will move toward more responsible products and actions.

Just as there is no credible evidence of god’s existence, there is no credible evidence that man is creating gorebal warming.

Do good because it’s good to do; conserve resources because it’s responsible to do so.

Paucoremhominem
Your recent post is inherently anti-American.

No one cares if you are christian or how you practice your "faith". In fact, it matters not the "faith" or "religious beliefs" of those who founded this nation. It's irrelevant.

The reality is that ANYONE who is invoking ANY type of religiosity onto Americans or anyone else, is anti-freedom at the most basic level.

Freedom for humankind is about freedom to live one's live without having to agree or live by another's standards.

Societies agree on various aspects of civil life by which we create laws to enforce accountability on those who transgress civility, as we define it, by killing, stealing, molesting children, etc.

Your narrow view of life is disgusting in my opinion. Fortunately I have freedom to have that opinion and express it. You have your freedoms to "believe" in some deity.

However, your freedom ends when it starts encroaching on mine or anyone else's freedom to live life as he/she desires - whether you or your god like it or not.

It's an interesting observation that those who claim to act without judgment are typically the ones who are sitting in judgment.

You have freedom to be ignorant - clearly you are taking terrific advantage of that freedom.

And by the way...
... before you go off on a rant about religion and moral society, I don't need religion to be my moral compass, I only need my own desire to live in world where people are accountable, responsible and understand freedom of their choices.

"Faith is believing in something when COMMON SENSE tells you not to" - Maureen O'Hara, Miracle on 34th Street



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