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Wednesday, March 14, 2007
John Stossel :: Townhall.com Columnist
Hazardous Safety Regulation
by John Stossel
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Whenever someone is hurt in an accident, people say, "There ought to be a law!" Politicians rush to oblige them and then take credit for all the lives they saved.

But shouldn't they also accept blame for the lives lost because of those laws?

Lives lost? Yes. A joint study by the Brookings Institution and American Enterprise Institute [http://www.aei-brookings.org/publications/abstract.php?pid=98] found that government regulations that are supposed to save lives actually end up killing more people.

Why? Because safety laws almost always have unintended bad consequences.

For years I've ridden my bike to work without a helmet, which seemed especially dumb since "20/20"'s offices are in New York City. I feel much safer now, but it's not clear that I am safer.

Ian Walker, a human-behavior researcher at the University of Bath in England, put a sensor and camera on his bike and rode for miles with and without a helmet. His data showed that when he wore the helmet, 23 percent more cars came within three feet of him.

"[The drivers are] saying,'He knows what he's doing.' When they see a cyclist who has all the gear, they think it's a sign of someone who's experienced and skillful," Walker surmises.

Biking is obviously less safe if cars are closer. Walker says there's another unintended consequence of helmet laws.

"Parts of Australia, Canada, and New Zealand have made bicycle helmets a requirement. The number of head injuries among cyclists in those countries drops off."

That's good, right?

"However, the number of cyclists is dropping off at exactly the same rate."

That's not good, assuming they don't take up other exercise.

"When people don't cycle, they're not getting exercise," Walker says. "Being sedentary is incredibly dangerous. You get heart attacks; you get strokes -- proven killers that kill thousands of people. So when people make helmets a requirement, with the best intentions, it may actually kill more people."

And here's another unintended consequence: Now that I wear a helmet, I feel safer, so I ride in traffic more often. Economists call this the Peltzman effect -- people adjust their behavior in ways that counteract the intended safety effect.

It's possible that I'd be safer if I junked the helmet and bought a woman's wig instead. Walker discovered that drivers gave him the most room when he wore a wig and they apparently thought he was a woman.

I tried it. It was very embarrassing, and I couldn't tell if cars came closer or not.

I'll stick with my helmet, but the point is that unintended consequences of well-intended safety rules are common.

In 1972, the FDA passed a law requiring child safety caps on many medications. It was supposed to keep kids from being poisoned by drugs like aspirin. But there is an unexpected side effect. Because safety caps are hard to get off, some people -- particularly older people -- leave them off, and some parents, feeling safer with the cap, leave the aspirin where kids can reach it.

A study of this "lulling effect" concluded that an additional 3,000 children have been poisoned by aspirin because of the regulation.

Finally, I may have given my daughter asthma by trying to protect her. When she was a baby, I, like most new parents, made an extra effort to keep the house clean. But now there's research suggesting that kids who are exposed to more endotoxins -- mild dust, bacteria, pollen -- and kids who go to daycare, have pets, and live on farms -- are less likely to develop allergies and asthma.

A sterile house, safety caps, bike helmet laws, etc., are all well intended, but one never knows what the real-life consequence will be. Yet every year the federal register needs thousands of pages to list all the new freedom-killing rules that bureaucrats pass in the name of protecting us.

Politicians should be less smug when they say, "Look, I've solved it! I passed a law."

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John Stossel blogs at http://blogs.abcnews.com/johnstossel/ is an award-winning news correspondent and author of Myths, Lies, and Downright Stupidity: Get Out the Shovel--Why Everything You Know is Wrong.
 
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Air bags
There is a growing body of evidence that since the requirement for all cars to be equipped with front airbags many injuries are up.
Note that crash tests using dummies always position the dummy in the 'proper' driving position. People about to crash do move. Often, an arm is positioned over the steering wheel as the driver attemts to steer from the object in the path. When the bag explodes, the forearm is driven into the face causing broken jaws and cheek bones as well as wrist injuries. People have suffered burn injuries from the heat generated by the explosion. People are startled by the deployment and lose control to avoid a secondary impact (the bag is useless for the second one).

Because we have these dangerous devices on the right side as well, youngsters have been killed when the bags deployed. To avoid that, regulators demand that children be sentenced to the isolation of the rear seat. This does not promote interaction with the parent or relative doing the driving. A further problem with this arrangement is if mom hears a questionable sound from her child, her irresistable instinct is to turn to see what may be wrong and thereby lose attention to the road. Great solution!

Notice that NO race car has an air bag. Belts provide superior protection.

If I had a choice, I would never have one in my car, side bags (not mandated) do have value.

A further view of mine is that 'safety devices promote a sense of well being and drivers feel they have no resposibility fo crash avoidance.

Disclosure: I spent 15 years working in the field for insurance companies on the '70s and '80s, no bags no belts. In about 15,000 assignments, I had

Air bags
There is a growing body of evidence that since the requirement for all cars to be equipped with front airbags many injuries are up.
Note that crash tests using dummies always position the dummy in the 'proper' driving position. People about to crash do move. Often, an arm is positioned over the steering wheel as the driver attemts to steer from the object in the path. When the bag explodes, the forearm is driven into the face causing broken jaws and cheek bones as well as wrist injuries. People have suffered burn injuries from the heat generated by the explosion. People are startled by the deployment and lose control to avoid a secondary impact (the bag is useless for the second one).

Because we have these dangerous devices on the right side as well, youngsters have been killed when the bags deployed. To avoid that, regulators demand that children be sentenced to the isolation of the rear seat. This does not promote interaction with the parent or relative doing the driving. A further problem with this arrangement is if mom hears a questionable sound from her child, her irresistable instinct is to turn to see what may be wrong and thereby lose attention to the road. Great solution!

Notice that NO race car has an air bag. Belts provide superior protection.

If I had a choice, I would never have one in my car, side bags (not mandated) do have value.

A further view of mine is that 'safety devices promote a sense of well being and drivers feel they have no resposibility for crash avoidance.

Disclosure: I spent 15 years working in the field for insurance companies in the '70s and '80s, no bags no belts. In about 15,000 assignments, I had ONE fatality (I can lay that at the feet of the feds too). I have concluded that the safety issue in cars is WAY overblown and no business of the federal government.

LIAR.
It was 1970, moron, and it was called the Poison Prevention Packaging Act. I'm sure you didn't want your readers to know that, because then they might find out that it REDUCED child poisoning deaths from 200 per year prior to 1970 to just 28 per year today. THE PPPA SAVES LIVES. And that's a fact, and one that can be verified by going to the Consumer Product Safety Commission, unlike the "study" you've pulled out of your chapped backside.

http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml04/04097.html

And I'm pretty sure that laws are enacted by Congress, not the FDA.

John Stossel, you really are a dumb monkey, d'you know that? Lord only knows what else you've fudged in this article. I certainly don't have time to fact check every idiotic thing you write.

Svlad Jelly
Three flaws in your argument.

1) That government statistics can be trusted as valid without your own investigation.

2) That the reduction (if there was) in child poisonings was due to harder to open containers. The reason is more likely to be due to better parental awareness, and parents who moved pills and poisons to more out of reach locations.

3) That children cannot open 'child proof' bottles and containers. I have seen a nine month old open a supposedly child proof pill bottle.

The PPPA was a feel good measure that had no measurable effect on child poisonings.

Parental education concerning pills and poisons was the key, not packaging.

As far as those child-proof containers
I would like a 'cost - benefit' analysis or whatever they call it on these monstrosities. How many households actually HAVE small children than NEED to be protected vs how many adults have to figure a way around the infernal things.

When my grandson was barely 4, he came over to 'help me' after some hand surgery. Not only could he open the meds, but he opened the can for lunch. All without any help or direction.

Of course the boy inherited a lot of brains (he he!)

And how MANY products have this garbage. Not just prescription/otc meds, but bleach, most cleaning products and it's getting really ridiculous.

For the love of Jeebus
"Don't trust statistics! Trust John Stossel and his imaginary "study"! (Nevermind that he doesn't even know how laws are made.)"

Reason just bounces right off you people. It's like throwing jelly beans at the f-ing wall.

Yup..

Typical response from a Leftist to a reasoned argument, get emotional ! And after re-reading your original posting, I see you began with the name calling, also typical of people who have no actual facts to counter with when their ideas or opinions are shown to be false or lacking worth.

Government statistics are not "reason", anyone educated on how to think will naturally do so for themselves. If you do not question what the Imperial Federal Government tells you, that not only proves your lack in the brain department, but also places you squarely as a sheep amongst the sheep.

I am not agreeing with Stossel, I was disagreeing with you. So thank you putting me into a catagory of people ("You People") that you disparage. Another display that you lack original thought and are unable to argue your own point without emoting and attacking.

So now that I have done the same to you, with quite a bit more eloquence than you, how does it feel? Next time, how about using reason in your argument instead a diatribe?

I find no difference - helmet or not
Cars seem to treat me the same wether I'm wearing a helmet or not.

The subject of this study may have been riding his bike CLOSER to traffic with a helmet on- because of a greater sense of security.

Best and safest way is to ride your bike TOWARD traffic-with a helmet. That way you can see the cars coming at you and avoid a collission!

Mike Corman

misterfact@yahoo.com

Flow of Traffic
re: misterfact wrote:

"... Best and safest way is to ride your bike TOWARD traffic-with a helmet. That way you can see the cars coming at you and avoid a collission!"

===

Agreed. However, many municipalities require that cyclist obey the same (basic) traffic laws as automobiles. That includes which side of the road they are supposed to ride on.

Of course, cyclists are also supposed to signal their turns and obey traffic signals and signs too. However, many in my area do not and, invariably, it is the driver that is cited for failing to yield if he hits a cyclist running a stop sign.

Consequences
I think the main point here was that laws have unintended consequences, but they are never discussed. Yes, the childproof caps may prevent some children from being poisoned. Hmmmm, I would have rather seen a law that required some licensing procedure before someone becomes a parent!

My ex left her Rolex on the top of the toilet tank when she was giving our 3 year old a bath. After putting him in the tub, she left the room. He promptly climbed out of the tub, grabbed her watch and flushed it down the toilet. Did we need a childproof lid on the toilet? NO - what we need are parents with basic common sense!

Most of the laws we get are driven because many people are simply too stupid to continue living on their own. I would think that any self respecting non-Bible thumping American would gladly sieze on this perfect example of evolution and refuse to pass laws to "protect" these people. Come on, warning signs on the front of steam rollers? Warning signs on hot beverage cups stating that the contents may be hot and may cause burns?

If people are so dumb that they hold a McD's coffee over their lap while driving or that they stand in front of a moving steam-roller, they simply deserve what happens to them.

So, quit passing laws to protect me from common sense things and while you're at it, restrict my right to sue to those things where the product was actually defective.

Pappy
No, statistics are "facts," whereas anecdotes and unsubstantiated claims are emphatically "not." I didn't present a "reasoned" argument, I gave you a factual one -- and you gave me unsuported supposition.

Hey, look, I didn't call anyone a name!

Another example .....
Another "safety" regulation which has backfired is the red light cameras. It has been found that these cameras actually INCREASE accidents. Of course the cameras were never really about safety in the first place. For entertaining reading on the statistics, check out this link.
http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/16/1614.asp

Svlad Jelly:
I must disagree; facts are NOT statistics, they are arguments. Without context and supporting evidence, they are useless. Recall Twain's axiom of "...lies, damn lies, and statistics."

An example is the nearly universal
"understanding" that half of all marriages end in divorce. This is completely incompatible with the less known but better documented statistic that approximately 70% of all married couples are mates for life. This is because comparing all the weddings in a given year or time period with all marriages drastically distorts the percentages. To put it another way: My parents have been married almost 50 years. My in-laws have been married 61 years. It would take a dozen more couples like them just to balance the books for Liz Taylor & Larry King!

Can I call you names now?
"Facts are arguments?" Er, no, in the real world (that's where the rest of us live,) facts SUPPORT arguments. And statistics are a type of fact -- a type of fact well suited for use in logical argument, unlike your prefered form of evidencial support, personal anecdotes.

Let me show you some more facts:

"...lies, damned lies, and statistics" was not Twain, but Benjamin Disraeli, quoted by Twain in "Chapters from My Autobiography." Behold! The Power of the Internet!

http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/19987

And was probably not even coined by Disraeli either. Shazam!

http://www.york.ac.uk/depts/maths/histstat/lies.htm

And of course, the phrase is meant to be ironic, but irony is a complex concept that I'm doubtful you could properly grasp. Although, you've really grasped what they were all being so ironical about there with those unsourced "marriage statistics" you pulled outta thin air.

Abra Kadabra!

http://biblenews1.com/marriage/marriags.htm

And look at all those facts I've used! One might get the impression that I actually graduated from high school!

Salad Jelly
No, I still disagree with you.

Yes, statistics by themselves are facts, but without also considering the context, you get misleading conclusions.

The "child proof" containers, by themselves, are less than effective. Have you never seen a child open one?

There was, along with these caps, an Educational effort that I believe had more effect than the packaging.

I am pleased to see that you have refrained from using disparaging terms in your later arguments.

Cheers !

Oops
Meant to write "statistics are NOT facts..."

Never mind what I SAID, pay atention to what I MEANT (rueful grin).

Context?
You're "context" is anecdotal nonsense! Ooooohhh, you're grandson opened a pill bottle! Hurray for him! "Repeal the law, my gradson got past the cap!!!"

Okay, fine, if you insist on meaningless anecdotes, here it is: I used to babysit for my nephew and I fell alseep once (hence I don't babysit anymore,) he woulda been about three or four, and when I woke up he had somehow -- I don't know how -- gotten ahold of a bottle of aspirin and DIDN'T GET IT OPEN BECAUSE OF THE CHILDPROOF CAP. The cap might have saved my nephews life, and it almost certainly saved him from being poisoned.

Is that good enough to trump your unfounded declaration that caps had nothing to do with the drop in fatalities? That it was all the awareness campaign (which was also the government's doing)? Eh? There's your "context." And I'm sure there's many cases just like it, because no matter how extensive an "educational effort" is, the hard truth is: SH*T HAPPENS. Kids get ahold of things they shouldn't. Household cleaners are still kept under sinks. Aspirin is still left on tables.

Am I saying the CPSC's awareness campaign was worthless? No, of course not, because the first, best way to keep kids from dying is to keep poisons out of their hands. But to say that caps are worthless because they aren't 100% certifiably foolproof is just...moronic. Absolutely, put-on-your-helmet, no-sharp-objects-for-you, moronic.

I couldn't hold it in any longer, pappy.

You know what's funny...
Is that I got called a mean name -- the first one I called Stossel, actually -- by one of you upright conservative citizens earlier today on the thread for Shapiro's "300" article.

Wow, see how good my memory is, Lynne?!

Secondly, if you think being a rude pr*ck, which I freely admit I am, nullifies the point a person is making, then you must not agree with ANYTHING that ANYBODY says. Dick "Go F**k Yourself" Cheney. Michelle "those Nation ***holes" Malkin. Rush "kill liberals" Limbaugh. Ann "F*ggot" Coulter. Etc. Oh, I can't go a day in the conservasphere without being called a traitor, a f*ggot, evil, a moron, nazi, stalinist, terrorist, etc, etc, etc. Beacons of civility around here, and no one seems to chide the people who call me names (not that I give a flying f**k, of course.)

And look, I didn't called anyone a name IN THIS POST either! (I guess I'll have to spell things out more clearly if I want to be understood around here.)

And anyway
What better place is there to be a rude pr*ck than the internet? It's the perfect place to let off stem at your political opponents, some of whom drive you crazy in your real life. I mean, it's not like I can call my boss a moron when he starts in with that global-warming-is-a-hoax crap, as much as I'd like to. (Although my brother-in-law and I have a delightfully rude political feud going on, but we're both young and foul-mouthed.) So I do it to anonymous conservative foot soldiers on crappy websites. It's cathartic. You should try it sometime.

And thirdly, Lynne
You know perfectly well where I get my facts (notice the absence of scare-quotes,) as I left HYPERLINKS to showing exactly where they came from -- unlike Stossel, who wouldn't even tell his readers the name of the law that the "FDA passed" in "1972" (notice the inclusion of scare-quotes to signify that these two items are actually contrary to established fact.) That's why they're facts and not unsourced supposition.

suspicious "study"
Bob writes: Thursday, March, 15, 2007 9:26 PM
Another example .....
Another "safety" regulation which has backfired is the red light cameras. It has been found that these cameras actually INCREASE accidents. Of course the cameras were never really about safety in the first place. For entertaining reading on the statistics, check out this link.
http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/16/1614.asp

This "study" goes against all common sense. The "study" did not include a determination of reasons why there was an increase in accidents. My suspicion is that some municipalities and their traffic engineers must justify the EXPENSE of these cameras with a hideous and unsafe trick: they shorten the duration of the yellow caution light! Cute, eh?!

Stossel article- incomplete as usual !
Stossel:

Ian Walker, a human-behavior researcher at the University of Bath in England, put a sensor and camera on his bike and rode for miles with and without a helmet. His data showed that when he wore the helmet, 23 percent more cars came within three feet of him.

So what! Where are Stossel's data that showed that ACCIDENTS increased! He has none!

misterfact@yahoo.com


more- Stossel's suspicious study
Ian Walker, a human-behavior researcher at the University of Bath in England, put a sensor and camera on his bike and rode for miles with and without a helmet. His data showed that when he wore the helmet, 23 percent more cars came within three feet of him.

misterfact replies:

I would propose a LAW in the above situation that would PREVENT cars from driving to close to bicyclists:

Require evey cyclist to have SAFETY mirrors on his helmet and/or handlebars- so that he can see cars approaching from the rear and thus move over 3 feet where possible! The law of self-preservation would insure that the cyclist uses them.

Stossel shows that he has no interest in any study that shows the safety benefit of helmets. Rather than explore laws that promote safety, he is more concerned with superficial studies that attack laws!

I would not classify his approaches to safety as having anything good to add in the public interest!

Michael Corman

Misterfact@yahoo.com

It's not enuf for a law to be beneficial
A law must also be consistent with the fundamental purpose of government, which is to secure individuals' unalienable rights, one which is Liberty.

For the sake of argument, let's pretend that it's even humanly possible to accurately account for all the significant intended and unintended consequences of helmet-wearing in real life.

Even if the calculation showed that the intended consequences of helmet-wearing outweighed the unintended consequences, that wouldn't justfiy enacting a law requiring helmet-wearing. A law forcing people to wear helmets while engaging in a certain activity does not secure rights, neither of the individuals engaging nor of the individuals not enaging. In fact, it violates the right to liberty of those engaging. No liberty-minded legislature would enact such a law. No liberty-minded executive would fail to veto such a law.

REPLY TO Svlad Jelly
Mr. Jelly - even if you do not agree with a writer's opinons (or facts in your case, the best way to show the facts is to present them. However, calling a writer a moron or a dumb monkey is not helping your case. It only makes you look childish and immature. Just present the facts and leave the name calling to the children -who can probably open those packages better than any adult I know - on the playground.

don't like bike helmet laws? Then WALK!
It's not enuf for a law to be beneficial
A law must also be consistent with the fundamental purpose of government, which is to secure individuals' unalienable rights, one which is Liberty.

For the sake of argument, let's pretend that it's even humanly possible to accurately account for all the significant intended and unintended consequences of helmet-wearing in real life.

Even if the calculation showed that the intended consequences of helmet-wearing outweighed the unintended consequences, that wouldn't justfiy enacting a law requiring helmet-wearing. A law forcing people to wear helmets while engaging in a certain activity does not secure rights, neither of the individuals engaging nor of the individuals not enaging. In fact, it violates the right to liberty of those engaging. No liberty-minded legislature would enact such a law. No liberty-minded executive would fail to veto such a law.

Maybe if doctors organized and threatened to refuse to operate on a person who violates the helmet law- THAT would convince you to wear one!

The same with refusal to wear a seat belt in a car.

My insurance rates are too high- mainly because my insurance company pays too much to save the lives of idiots and their kids who refuse to wear seat belts in cars and helmets on bicycles.

child safety caps
Safe caps on pills and poisonous household substances have saved countless kids' lives.

They need to take the safety caps off of containers containing SMART PILLS! That way some of these idiot adults can figure out how to get into the vial and take one for a change.

Don't care
My, what a pushy, condescending crowd the safety police are. Moralistic too, I see. ‘What, you don’t believe what I believe? You must be STOOOOOPID!’ seems to be the gist of them all. My favorite: Don’t like helmet laws, get off the road because my insurance rate is too high. Wow, such belligerence is breath taking.

Kudos to the writer that mentioned liberty. You know what helmet / seat-belt laws, in essence, are? Criminal negligence to protect yourself. Doesn’t sound like a law the ‘land of the free’ would pass in the ‘home of the brave.’

I will not wear a helmet on my bicycle, on my skates or on my motorcycle. Why? I don’t want to. Need I another reason? You may not think that’s smart (and perhaps you’re right) however it is my choice – isn’t it? Or are you so high on your pulpit you can’t see how my free will means a damn.

Remarkable how many people out there want to control others through laws. Not so remarkable how many politicians are out there ready to pander to that constituency, make a mockery of the Constitution and pass those laws. Shame on you all.

Statistics can equal Damn Lies
This is one of my favorite stories dealing with how statistics can lie. This is an example I used in a Statistics class I took a few decades ago:

After the National Maximum Speed Limit was enacted to lower the highway speed limits to 55 MPH at the height of the Arab Oil Embargo in an effort to 'save energy' it was noticed by a number of non-governmental traffic safety groups that the number of traffic fatalities went down, too. They made the claim the "55 Saves Lives". The only problem was that they cherry picked the statistics they used to prove their point. Yes, traffic fatalities went down, but not because of the lower speed limit. They went down because fewer people were driving due to the shortage of gasoline.

When the death rate (traffic fatalities per million passenger miles traveled) was employed, you could not look at chart of the fatality rate (starting in 1926 when the government started keeping records of such things) and see the point where the speed limit was lowered. The trend had been downward since 1926 and the time period in question was well within the standard deviation. It did not stand out.

The traffic safety groups took two related statistics and made a pronouncement that X caused Y. However, as a number of my professors during my college days constantly reminded me, correlation does not imply causality. But that doesn't stop people with a point to prove from doing just that. It's done all the time.

ATTENTION ALL MEDICAL PERSONNEL !!!
Consider this pledge and sign on:

As a medical professional I,_______ (name) refuse to treat anyone who is injured while riding a bicycle or motorcycle WITHOUT WEARING AN APPROVED SAFETY HELMET!

My time and expertise is to valuable to those who suffer from disease or injury through no fault of their own-than to be wasted on those who are injured by choice (not wearing a helmet)!
By wasting my time, through a stupid choice, I would be denying medical attention to those who really DESERVE it! The correct term in this matter is TRIAGE.

You who refuse to wear a helmet have NO RIGHT to infringe on the medical attention given to others.

The insurance industry can choose to increase rates or DENY COVERAGE to those who smoke or refuse to wear seat belts in cars;

I believe that those of us in the medical industry should have the same freedom to deny services! A pharmacist,on the basis of his or her moral objections, should also have the right to deny medications.

You who refuse to wear an approved safety helmet while riding a bicycle or motorcycle have been warned! At best, you may be put at the bottom of triage by other professionals who choose to treat you! The choice is YOURS!

This pledge has been drawn up by:

misterfact@yahoo.com

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