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Wednesday, February 14, 2007
John Stossel :: Townhall.com Columnist
Schwarzenegger's Folly
by John Stossel
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Will the Dems' health care Christmas Present to America be an improvement or detriment to our health care system?


Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger wants all Californians to have medical insurance. So he's going to force them to have it.

Schwarzenegger abandoned his opposition to mandated employer-based health insurance and embraced the idea as his own. "Everyone in California must have insurance. If you can't afford it, the state will help you buy it, but you must be insured," Schwarzenegger said last month.

Of course, his "solution" won't solve the problem. By making medical care  look  cheap to people, expanded insurance will push prices up even faster. Everyone will end up paying more. But politicians benefit because the costs will be hidden.

The governor also wants to enlarge the state's coverage for children by including people with incomes as high as $60,000 for a family of four. Imagine that: You can make $60,000 a year and put your kids on the dole.

This ought to dispel any notion that Schwarzenegger is a believer in small government. Here he is following former Republican Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney down the path of state socialized medicine. Romney said compulsory insurance would cost a person $2,400 a year. But now we know it's at least $4,560.

This is not to say we don't have a medical mess on our hands. We do, but the problems have their roots in existing government activity. More such activity is unlikely to make things better.

The root of the problem is that few people face the true cost of medical care. Medicare and Medicaid beneficiaries don't because taxpayers pay their bills. People with employer-based medical insurance don't because insurance policies shield them from it. Since they pay only small co-pays when they see a doctor, they don't ask, "Do I really need that test?" but rather, "Does my insurance cover it?"

People who don't face the full cost of their choices don't act like cost-conscious consumers. Higher prices result.

With a rational government policy, people would save money for routine medical care and buy insurance for solvency-threatening illness. After all, we don't buy auto insurance to pay for oil changes and worn-out windshield-wiper blades. But today, people expect medical insurance to cover routine physical exams because someone else seems to pay the premiums.

All this hurts people who buy their own insurance or don't have it. It would be good if they could buy a basic high-deductible catastrophic policy. For a healthy young person, such a policy would be relatively cheap. But because of special-interest lobbying, most states mandate that insurance cover things that most people would never buy if they were paying the cost openly -- things like Viagra and substance-abuse counseling. The Council for Affordable Health Insurance (CAHI) reports that states have imposed 1,824 mandates on insurance companies. This makes even a high-deductible policy absurdly expensive in many states.

Government further harms us by not permitting cross-state competition. As a New Yorker, I can't buy a cheap policy sold in Iowa, a state with fewer mandates, because I may only buy from companies that are subject to New York's costly regulations. That's nuts.

The upshot is that, however well intentioned, government regulation of medicine and insurance brings us mostly headaches, and Gov. Schwarzenegger's plan will bring Californians even more. But that should be between him and them. They should have the right to fail.

Many disagree with that. The normally wise Wall Street Journal editorial board says the courts should strike down the governor's plan because of ERISA, the federal law that presumes to supersede state laws on worker benefits.

But forbidding California to pursue dumb ideas is a mistake. As I've pointed out the last two weeks, the American founders showed their genius by dividing power between the states and central government.

Let the states experiment! Universal coverage is a feel-good idea that many people want Washington to impose. Better to have models of failure in individual states so we all don't have to suffer! We need living reminders of collectivism's faults. Without the Soviet Union, I fear that Americans will forget its horrors.

So states should be free to demonstrate the horrors without interference from Washington.

The feds should let us learn.

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About The Author
John Stossel blogs at http://blogs.abcnews.com/johnstossel/ is an award-winning news correspondent and author of Myths, Lies, and Downright Stupidity: Get Out the Shovel--Why Everything You Know is Wrong.
 
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Excellent column
Living in Kalifornia, I will of course be subject to this terrible idea. Exactly why I refused to vote for the Governator both times.

BTW, for those who are bound to say "car insurance is mandated", that's true... for car OWNERS. If you don't own a car, you don't buy the insurance.

But this idea of mandating insurance just because you live in the state is outrageous. Please tell with a straight face, if you can, that all the illegals are going to rush right out to their broker and sign up for a policy. I've got some swampland in Death Valley to sell to you.

There is intelligence here.
But few in this State will listen. And our Governor has a long history of doing everything he can for the children.

Of course in his earlier attempts he made sure that the childrens programs would only come if, and only when, there were a budget surplus to pay for it. That ain't happening in CA any time soon.

Arnold made a mad dash to bring fiscal responsability to CA in 2005 and got his head handed to him after mega millions were spent on smear campaigns, run by the unions, for several months before the elections decided the initatives. All day, everyday, we heard the drumbeat for months before support for the changes could afford to mount advertising.

Everyone of his ideas failed in the voting. It was scare tactics from the start. In fact the drumbeat is already starting to pay for every child's education and smaller class sizes. Now universal education already is the law, but the teachers union wants to make sure the illegals get close to the trough too. We need more teachers to do that.

The ad I heard today, although the next election is about a year away, claimed 100,000 teachers are about to retire so we need to spend MORE money to hire new ones. To train them to the highest standards to give our children a chance to learn etc etc etc.

So I ask the question... if 100K are retiring don't we have the salaries of 100K tenured, seasoned and the highest paid senior teachers to spend on these efforts to hire new ones?

Oh stupid me! Don't ask tough questions like that one! Do as the ad tells you and immediately call your state representative and demand their support for more money. But I digressed from the topic.

My plan for insurance reform is simple. Stop mandatory treatment at Emergency Rooms that are not emergencies. Set up clinics at the hospitals for the "walk in traffic" that has bankrupted the hospital systems. Expand the use and information about HSA's (health savings accounts) to provide catastrophic insurance coverage available at vary low rates. Make the HSA premiums tax deductable for all, not just Schedule A filings. [HSA's double as a tax free savings account if you don't use the money, and it rolls over every year.] Include the tax benefit for State Income filings too as they only apply to Federal taxes now.

In 15 years you can save $50,000 in a tax free compunding simple interest HSA and cut your taxable income by $2K a year at the same time. You can pay for Dr. visits with the cash in the account, but not the premiums.

I think there is a real future in the old plants that manufactured flags for the USSR. It probably won't take much to convert them to the new American Flag; the United States Socialist Republic.


no mandates
You want to cut medical cost put up a menu with the prices in each lobby and require a cash register and mandate that all medical facilities must post prices for labor and material.
Quit throwing more layers of insulation between the customer and the product provider.
20 years ago my brother paid for his first childs birth with 4 cords of firewood. You want to tell me who he could have made that kind of deal with mandatory government insurance payments. And how does it benefit society if we continue to limit the ability of client and customer to negotiate price.

Kalifornia here I come
That is the new song for the illegals. The Peoples Republik of Kalifornia is officially lost. Those of you living there who actually have an income and common sense should leave while you still have a chance. The electricity crisis will only get worse. The next item will be a health crisis. You have had a water crisis since I lived there in the 70s. There just aren’t too many more crisis’s that can be borne and still survive.

Tortilla Soup (and Univ. Health Care)
A recent blogpost titled "Of Tortillas .. and men", shows what happens when socialized nitwits try to 'solve' problems. The story of the ongoing Mexican Tortilla shortage is amusing, until you realize how it applies to UHC.

--excerpt--
* Now (circa 2007) health care is deemed to be an indispensable right
* There is a clamor from Socialist politicos to apply the 'successful' Medicare model to all
* After the 2008 elections, Congress with an acquiescent President passes a landmark UHC law
* Circa 2015: America faces a shortage of qualified doctors. The Govt nationalizes drug companies that make 'essential' drugs, but, lacking a profit motive, few new drugs are created. Private pharmaceutical & medical technology companies produce only 'luxury' or vanity products such as Viagra & Silicone breast implants that are exempt from Govt control. In addition to the black market in prescription drugs, a black market springs up for private practice physicians who are willing to skirt the law to make a living.

Not so funny anymore, eh? Sorry, that's a terrible impersonation of a Canadian 'accent'! Needless to say, our Canadian 'comrades' have been down this path before us!

Oh, and don't think that it will only be a Democrat President who signs onto the UHC law .. observe the recent actions on the part of Arnold in California.

We should all remember this when we hear people demonize insurance companies, affluent doctors, pharmaceutical companies, hospitals and other free-market agents that play an important role in making health care available. Although there are numerous examples of mistakes made by those entities, let's be aware that Govt meddling is the largest single reason for most of the problems in this industry.
--end excerpt--

For the complete article, click on the following link:
http://voice.townhall.com/g/a61ebb3a-506b-49dc-8cd7-b6dfe624a76f


A couple of small disagreements
I have a couple of small disagreements with todays column. First the statement...""Do I really need that test?" but rather, "Does my insurance cover it?"... some of the tests run don't come under this question, they come under the "did you do enough?" question at the malpractice law suit. Some of the tests run are run to protect the doctor in case the patient doesn't like the outcome of his treatment and tries to win the lottery in court.

There will always be a doctor who will get on the stand and describe how such and such a test should have been conducted and the plantif would have had a full recovery. Along with this there will always be a jury ready to make the plantif rich.

The second statement I disagree with is "Let the states experiment! Universal coverage is a feel-good idea that many people want Washington to impose. Better to have models of failure in individual states so we all don't have to suffer! We need living reminders of collectivism's faults." When the system fails, some other socialist politician will step up, claiming to be smarter than the prior fool, and demand we start the program again.

Besides, in California you don't need insurance. All you need is the number of the ambulance service to transport you to the emergency room. If you're poor, or ilegal, the state picks up the tab.

Another bloviation
If the state/government is eventually going to be responsible for medical care, who will the trial lawyers sue when the outcome isn't what the patient wanted? If the services provided are decided by a government employee, like the ones at the drivers license office, who's responsibility will it be when a patient has to wait 4 months for a MRI or when the local health care office decides to use it's budget for AIDS medication for younger males instead of heart medication for the elderly?

Imagine being a trial lawyer and the socialist party you actively support is trying to take away most of your business. The trial lawyers are really going to have to study this issue carefully as it affects their livelyhood.

Another great, common sense....
...article from Mr. Stossel, but there is one problem. Our politician's normally don't learn from mistakes. They revisit past errors, even tragic ones, and when doing so, they flavor their new sales pitches with; "this time, it will be different".

Look how many of them are undermining the war effort. Vietnam was lost because our politicos became devisive, they demanded our troops restrict their efforts, and then they demanded a pull-out. The enemy knew about their American lobbyists and capitalized on the insanity. The result was to abandon the country leaving millions to be butchered. The left (and some RINOs) are doing precisely the same thing against our efforts in Iraq.

We have many socialists in congress. The certain financial and social failure of a California health care system will only embolden many, if not all, of them. Social chaos fuels their political engines.

Like Einstein once said: "Insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results". Many of our representatives often define that definition.

Another great, common sense....
...article from Mr. Stossel, but there is one problem. Our politician's normally don't learn from mistakes. They revisit past errors, even tragic ones, and when doing so, they flavor their new sales pitches with; "this time, it will be different".

Look how many of them are undermining the war effort. Vietnam was lost because our politicos became devisive, they demanded our troops restrict their efforts, and then they demanded a pull-out. The enemy knew about their American lobbyists and capitalized on the insanity. The result was to abandon the country leaving millions to be butchered. The left (and some RINOs) are doing precisely the same thing against our efforts in Iraq.

We have many socialists in congress. The certain financial and social failure of a California health care system will only embolden many, if not all, of them. Social chaos fuels their political engines.

Like Einstein once said: "Insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results". Many of our representatives often define that definition.

Sorry about the double posting, folks.
It didn't post on my first try.

Say what, Stossel???
"...We need living reminders of collectivism's faults. Without the Soviet Union, I fear that Americans will forget its horrors.

So states should be free to demonstrate the horrors without interference from Washington.

The feds should let us learn..."


How naive can you get!! Boortz says it best: "...roughly 50 percent of the adults in this country are simply too ignorant and functionally incompetent to be living in a free society... Not only are many Americans unequipped to live in a free society, they actually don't want to live in a free society."

If every American were truly educated in history, science and economics, the Democrat Party would go extinct overnight.

California Insurance for Kids
Here in LA, we are currently being barraged by ads about how kids are "forced" to use emergency rooms because they don't have insurance. These ads drive me crazy -- and they are just lies!

No one is "forced" to use the emergency room. We currently do not have insurance (recent job change) and we are not "forced" to use the emergency room. Instead, if necessary, we use an urgent care facility, or pay the doctor cash. What a novel concept, paying for what you use! And before you say that we can probably afford it, our income is less than Arnold's proposed $60K per year that would qualify us for his insurance scheme (and here in LA, that's not much).

No one is forced to use emergency care when lesser care is available, it is a CHOICE -- for freeloaders.

What is the Difference?
...between requiring people to carry auto insurance, and requiring people to carry health insurance?

By the way, does auto insurance make auto repairs more expensive?

the difference
I have walked into many doctors offices that would not work on you without insurance and would not take cash. I have yet to walk into an autobody shop and refused service without having insurance or using my own cash to pay for the services.

dbz 77
Car insurance and health insurnce, huh?

Obviously you didn't read the first post on this thread, by moi.

Health insurance as proposed by Schwazy is supposedly mandatory for everyone (even illagal alibnes, right?).

Car insurance is only mandatory IF YOU OWN A CAR. No car, no insurance requirement.

Oops
Sorry for the typos.

John Stossel's report on Insurance
John, as usual you are right. We know that one thing no one wants to pay for is medical insurance. That is the American way. We don't like to pay for necessities because we might not be able to have the "things" we want. I get upset with elderly people on medicare. They are having tests that they would never have if they had to pay for them. Doctors are seeing patients they should not see because medicare pays them some of what they charge. Medical care is such a rip-off to anyone involved. If states give free medical care, we want have enough doctors to care for people.

I'm with Doug on this
Mandatory and even employer-paid health insurance just leads to fraud and waste. As do lawyers and lawsuits.

Besides which, I would kind of like to know how many people DON'T go into medicine because of the 'paperwork.' (May sound stupid, but worth asking. I know of a few who LEFT the practice of medicine because of the 'paperwork.'

DBZ77: Auto insurance
Does insurance make repairs more expensive? Don't be an idiot. Of course it does. I have replaced numerous windshields and I never bill insurance, since I carry real insurance, only very high deductible. My windshields cost me about $150 each, whereas the same company will quote around $1000 if it is covered by insurance.

Most auto body places will negotiate a better price if I pay out-of-pocket. The busy ones don't because they are able to gouge the insurance companies.

HSAs and repealing mandatory emergency room service laws will clearly reduce medical costs. We need much less government, not more. HIPPA and anything that Ted Kennedy thinks up is a horrible burden that raises costs and reduces service. And I am a health care provider.

Just a thought
I am one who is about to leave. Paperwork is horrendous. Thank you, papa government, for always knowing more about what I need than I do. Thank you for not letting me practice according to my training and experience, substituting rules by bureaucratic drones.

Other than that, I have no strong feelings.

Since I'm someone who...
...believes in paying his way, I have a question regarding the "necessity" of having government pay for health care. Why can't everyone budget their health care costs like most every other necessity in the home?

An example: Instead of buying a high-end car, buy a mid range (or less) and use the extra you planned on spending on the Caddie to finance your own health care. You won't look as cool as you wanted, but you could buy a catastrophy-covering policy that would keep you safe from heavy financial loss. You would then foot the bill for the other maladies that are common to humans. The latter is incentive to live a healthier life as well as an incentive to find work and stay on the job. One might even eventually demand lower taxes, and business-growing legislation to help in your budgeting efforts.

I once had the flu so severe that I dragged myself to a hospital emergency room thinking the worst. A doctor came in, took some blood, checked me over and announced that I had the flu. He said that I would just have to ride it out.

That was good enough for me. I went home and did just that. I received the bill for 15 minutes of prodding and poking, and paid it: $275.00.

Again; why does health care seem to be a primary government concern when all it takes is the usual household budgeting?

(You're right when you think that I'm not considering those who habitually shoot themselves in the foot their entire lives in regard to personal growth, the chronically dependent class. But severe restrictions could be imposed on that group when they tap into the taxpayer).


dbz77
There's a huge difference between health insurance and car insurance. Aside from the differences other posters have explained, a big factor is that the cost of car repairs must remain limited. As soon as the cost of repairing your car becomes more expensive than the cost to replace the car, the car is considered "totaled" and is not repaired. There's no such limit with health insurance - you don't "total" grandma.

And another thing, the government may require that all cars be insured but I doubt that even the California government is offering to pay for it.

Schwarzenegger

Missed one
Stossel missed one aspect of requiring insurance for everyone. (Unless I missed it.)

By mandating health insurance for everyone, the costs of health insurance will likely go up for everyone. After all, if you have to have it, why not charge more for it? I would suspect that insurance companies are all for this new law, and probably lobbied for it. Their customer base just went way up. Their costs increased a little. They will raise prices to cover this cost, and maybe more because they can.

Hey, if the insurance companies are for it, how can any liberal be for it, too?

Arnold
needs to hire some serious number crunching economists and statisticians to work out a plan. For starters health care management orgs should not be at the table. But every thing should be on the table,like cutting the mandates.

The trick if this passes is to go yugo..not cadillac. A bare bones plan is the start point, add more later if it works out.

Can you imagine how many people would be hired to track the paper work alone. It is similar to granting amnesty to illegals; 20 million people to process = 20 thousand + workers. What a beuracracy?

What a horrible precedent.

11h


Vic
Vic said: "Those of you living there who actually have an income and common sense should leave while you still have a chance."

Those of us who lived in San Francisco in the 1980's have left already. Karl Marx and us just didn't get along.

The only regret we have after leaving is that the 49er's couldn't have left with us. Find it hard to cheer for a team representing a city where American servicemen are spit upon and where people feel more at home as a province of China.

Sudden turn to the left?
No one should be shocked by Schwarzenegger's recent slide to the far left. This is a closeted liberal who is coming out. The only reason he ran as a pseudo-conservative was because there was talk at the time, led by Utah Senator Orrin Hatch, to change the Constitution to allow foreign-born Americans to run for president. Now, Schwarzenegger realizes there is no support for a constitutonal amendment, and he is governing exactly as the socialist that he truly is.

There is a difference
Between health care and health insurance.

Funny how the argument always comes down in favor of universal health *insurance*. For the same reason we have to wear freaking seat belts. Insurance companies have loud voices in gov't circles.

Hey, you Californians... you made your bed, you lie in it. I tried to TELL you people that Schwartzenegger was just a liberal in Republican clothing. I pleaded with you to vote for a real conservative instead. For the first time, California could have had a real conservative governor, but no, you guys wanted the foreigner from the silver screen.

Reap what you have sown, and choke on it.

BrianR, no drinking and typing!
It is not surprising that Ahhnold is doing this. He is just another left leaning Leftifornia pol. You think he survived this long without being buried somewhere on the Kennedy Compound by being a real conservative? That is a real laugher, folks!

jdw - You were right but
did you see the Lefties he ran against?

At least we know he won't make another attempt to look like the next Ronald Reagan.

Universal...?
HOW does he expect to make sure that EVERYbody has insurance? That sounds really scary...!

Cost Shifting
"The root of the problem is that few people face the true cost of medical care. Medicare and Medicaid beneficiaries don't because taxpayers pay their bills". Quote from Stossel - To add to this Medicare and Medicaid rarely pay the physician or hospital's actual cost of providing the service - so to stay in business hospitals and doctors must be paid disproportionately more by the private insurance companies (and cash paying customers) to stay in business. Funding our healthcare system is so distorted by the government and any talk of a "market solution" (the only way to fix it) drives the left (and most of the middle) insane. People want the best healthcare but they don't want to pay for it... Economics 101 - there is no free lunch...

Car Insurance
Actually, guys, the government does NOT require that you insure damage to your OWN car. The government requires liability insurance - to cover the cost of any damage you may do to the property of OTHERS. There is a BIG difference between that and requiring health insurance..it's not the same thing at all.

Flagwaver
Hi, pard.

Ahnald's "left leaning"?

You're too kind. To Ahnuld. He's the epitome of RINO.

Too long literally sleeping in the enemy's camp.

As a politician, he's a great actor.

BrianR
Agreed.

What's even worse is having Mary Matalin working for ya and she's sleeping (gross) with James "Gollum" Carville.

WAYYYYYY past the time to separate the wheat from the chaff.

hey lefties
Canadians wait 10 weeks for an MRI. You could be dead or terminal by then.

I can get an MRI tommorrow here in the states.

That 10 weeks will NEVER be solved with more government.

How many times does something have to fail miserably (and create more misery than it pretends to salve) before you know-it-all socialist chowderheads from each generation come up with the idea again and again??


partsmom - I believe the Governator
intends for everyone to be required to buy insurance, and if they can't afford it, they will get it for free.

Incidently, I can't afford insurance, but am buying it anyway out of my life savings.

It is unlikely they will offer me any help because I am white and speak English.

We all know that assuring Health
Insurance for everyone will cause two things to happen, actually three things.
1. Health Care Costs Rise - Just because everyone has health care does not take away the indigent and illegal alien population. These folks deal in cash and live on the fringe. This policy will not cover them.'
2. The cost of Health Insurance will Rise - with the dim ol rats the answer is always the same. Give insurance to everyone and let the ones who are paying pay for everyone. ie. Socialism
3. The quality of medical care goes DOWN! - Let's face it, many hospitals have an indigent wing and the care and fixtures there are not as nice as in the full paying area. Some hospitals have eliminated this double standard but they still exist. Why do anything better for anyone if everybody pays and at an insurance-mandated regulated cost?
If anyone thinks socialized medicine is a good idea contact a Canadian and ask them about it.
Also contact a friend on the other side of the pond in the Jolly Olde EU. They will tell you about their wonderful health care.

Schwarzeneggar's Folly
Here, here and here! I spent 13 years in the industry and many years lobbying against socialized-type medicine/insurance "schemes" in this country. You're exactly correct when you talk about the distance between the consumer and the cost of their medical care.

I grew up in Canada - thiers is not a system you want to trade this one for. We have challenges - quite fixable challenges by the way, with plenty of money already in the system to provide for each one - but this is a baby you want to make sure doesn't go out with the bathwater!!

Ah - it's SO refreshing to hear a voice that is reasonable in this debate rather than emotional and political.

By the way - I've had senators from both sides of the aisle tell me that we can't fix this healthcare problem, that it is too valuable an issue for election platforms!

Bless you,
Cyn
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