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Wednesday, December 20, 2006
John Stossel :: Townhall.com Columnist
What will they ban next?
by John Stossel
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Will the Dems' health care Christmas Present to America be an improvement or detriment to our health care system?


New York City has ordered restaurants to stop selling food made with trans fat. "It is a dangerous and unnecessary ingredient," says the health commissioner. Gee, I'm all for good health, but shouldn't it be a matter of individual choice?

A New York Times headline about the ban reads: "A Model for Other Cities."

"A model for what, exactly?" asks George Mason University economist Don Boudreaux (LINK: www.cafehayek.com). "Petty tyranny? Or perhaps for similarly inspired bans on other voluntary activities with health risks? Clerking in convenience stores? Walking in the rain?"

Trans fats give foods like French fries that texture I like. They are probably bad for me, but Radley Balko of Reason points out that "despite all of the dire warnings about our increased intake of trans-fats over the last 20 years, heart disease in America has been in swift decline ... So, if they're killing us, they're not doing a very good job."

But that's not the point. In a free society the issue is: Who decides what I eat, the government or me? It's not as though information about trans fats is hard to come by. Scaremongers like the Center for Science in the Public Interest (CSPI) are all too happy to tell you about the dangers, and they have no trouble getting their declarations of doom on television and into newspapers.

Unfortunately, CSPI is not content to tell you avoid trans fats. It sues restaurants like McDonald's and KFC for using them, and urges governments to ban them.

But why do the health police get to take away my choices? Adults should be expected to take responsibility for their own health.

Often the health police say they must "protect the children." But children are the responsibility of their parents. When the state assumes the role of parent, it makes children of all of us.

The food prohibitionists don't understand that there are ways to influence people's behavior without resorting to coercion -- remember, coercion is the essence of government. The public fuss about harm from trans fats has already induced many food makers to remove them. It's suddenly become a competitive advantage to boast that your products are trans-fat-free. Such voluntary action is the best way to move toward healthier food.

Why isn't that good enough for the prohibitionists? Why must they enlist the iron hand of government?

I think they dislike freedom of choice. They know the right way, so it's only right that they force everyone to follow them. That's the philosophy of prohibitionists.

The Center for Consumer Freedom is running ads saying: "Now that New York has banned cooking oils with trans fat (the same substance as margarine) ... it opens the door to banning so much more! Using the same logic, let's get rid of New York style pizza (seriously, do you need all that cheese?), beef hot dogs (tofu dogs almost taste the same), corned beef (turkey breast is much leaner). ... "

Yes, I know the center's sponsors include restaurants and food companies, but still, it has a good point.

Nobel Prize-winning economist Milton Friedman, who died a few weeks ago, would have agreed. He was the author of "Free to Choose" and "free to choose" sums up Friedman's philosophy. He would have cringed at the banning of trans fats, just as he objected to the earlier banning of products like the sugar substitute called cyclamates.

Over 25 years ago, Friedman wrote, "If we continue on this path, there is no doubt where it will end. If the government has the responsibility of protecting us from dangerous substances, the logic surely calls for prohibiting alcohol and tobacco. . . . Insofar as the government has information not generally available about the merits or demerits of the items we ingest or the activities we engage in, let it give us the information. But let it leave us free to choose what chances we want to take with our own lives."

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About The Author
John Stossel blogs at http://blogs.abcnews.com/johnstossel/ is an award-winning news correspondent and author of Myths, Lies, and Downright Stupidity: Get Out the Shovel--Why Everything You Know is Wrong.
 
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Is anyone surprised?
This would be a better question. The private property rights clearly spelled out in the 5th Amendment will get ignored again. The "logic" still works from the tobacco laws and the more recent eminent domain rulings. What a sad judicial system we have when judicial precident overrules obvious constitutional language and intent.

supply and demand
I had a fine paper turned in this last quarter. The student wrote a policy paper and the proposed audience was the State of Texas. Texas has banned candy on public school property in order to combat the "obesity epidemic." The student's research uncovered the fact that many kids were earning up to $200 a week selling candy on the school's grounds, thanks to the black market created by the Lone Star State's policy makers. Older kids have sneaked off campus to buy the banned substance and then returned, at great peril no doubt, with the deadly contraband. Instead of rum running, it was Jolly Ranchers. Hmmm, perhaps the august legislative body members were asleep during the 1920's section of their American History class, or perhaps they failed Econ. 101. We can only ponder now who is worse, the preening egos that pretend to love us so much that they usurp our freedom and desire to foist such nonsense on everyone, or the wretched officials who pander to them by passing such ill-conceived legislation. Now, in The Big Apple, the "Soup Nazi" has been replaced: "No fries for you... ever!"

The mistake government made is...
...not thinking ahead and knowing that it is trans fat the makes the fried food taste the way it does and establishing a "sin" tax on that good taste the way they did alcohol and tobacco. If they had, I can assure you there would be no ban. Just as there will never be an outright ban on alcohol and tobacco. Too much local, state and federal revenue loss.

Many have
used here on Townhall, the ol Frog syndrome, turning up the heat 1° at a time. But what amazes me is that we are not Frogs people (well some may be) and we can plainly see that we are being slowly cooked. Yet no serious attempts are made to turn off the advancing flames of Liberal Socialism.

Regulations are made for our own good.
Since most people don't have the time to do a lot of research on things that might potentially cause them harm, our society has established government agencies to handle the task for us. As a result, the trained people that operate such facilities are in a much better position to recognize unhealthy trends, and since we paid them to locate the hazard, it only seems reasonable that we would also want them to limit our exposure to the problem.

Government agencies determined seat belts save lives, and we have accepted the laws that mandate their use. What is wrong with extending the same logic to what we consume? Sometimes we have to give up a portion of our freedom of choice for our own good. Those in the respective research agencies know more about what is good for us than we do as individuals, and we need to trust in their ability to make regulations that are designed to keep us safe.

As far as an individual having the right to make personal choices, such allowances cannot be allowed if the community as a whole will be effected by the decision. If you choose to adopt an unhealthy lifestyle, the rest of the community has to pick up your slack when you fall ill. Therefore, in cases where your decisions effect the community, you have no right to make bad ones.

Besides, whether or not you like the regulations, they are put into force for your own good. So be thankful that someone in the government is making wise decisions for you.

LD... perfect sense
Your post makes perfect sense if we ignore several axioms that have been proven true over time.
1. Power corrupts, and ultimate power corrupts ultimately.
2. The law of unintended consequences... Murphy says it like this, "if something can go wrong, it will." Some have said that Murphy was an optimist.

History is replete with examples of experts who disagree, and well meaning programs gone awry. Thus, a conservative will cast a skeptical eye towards those "experts" who are given power over us. It's called checks and balances. Omniscience is not within the purvue of humans; try to understand why many are loathe to acquiese to your stance.

Others have said..
...that "loyal democrat" is shill pandering to get a rise out of others. I think they are correct as the last paragraph of his/hers makes it clear.

Regardless of the Diet Police I am making plans to eventually retire to some farming state such as Iowa, Illinois or Indiana. The thinking is that I can still find a farm with some terrain not easily viewed by passers-by. The corn fields I grow for ethanol will cover my tracks.

There I will raise pigs, probably the Vietnamise pot-bellied pets as the Oscar Meyer variety will have long been banned. I think I can bribe someone to get a few fertile eggs back into the country. [Edward G Robinson got one in Soylent Green]

My biggest problem may be getting a breeding pair of cattle for milk and beef solids. Maybe a cover story of a historical petting zoo will work?

Then I may be able to harvest my beef briskets, prime rib, hamburger and cook my eggs with the bacon fat I so love. There will be extra pig fat as usual so I can do a little bootleg donut frying also.

I'll never be able to see my government assigned health provider again (couldn't risk it!) so I'll have to rely on the Vet who comes to check on the petting zoo animals.

I can probably bribe some locals with bacon to keep it hush about how much corn we use. Maybe if I get caught I can go on a 12-Step program long enought to still die happy. And Free.

Mark of CA
My last paragraph makes it clear that I am pandering? No pandering was intended. All I am saying is that we create government agencies in order to help protect ourselves, and the fact is that the researchers in such agencies are highly trained, ergo they are wise. If left to their own accord, many people would indeed make bad choices, and bad choices would lead to illness or injury. Therefore, my final statement is fully operative: The regulations are made for for your own good, and you should indeed thank the trained government researcher that is looking out for your well being by making educated decisions for you.

LD has a point...
Government employees who are paid to research these things can be much more knowledgeable in areas we never even consider!

We could have agencies that test us in all sorts of ways to tell us which jobs we do best and assign us to them - no unemployment and increased efficiency! They would adjust our pay to the level we need to live at a reasonable standard, so no overpaid executives or underpaid "little guys"

They would be able to match us up to hobbies that would suit our interest and eliminae such frivolous things as skydiving (hey, they're providing our healthcare, too, so why let people do things that will burden the system unnecessarily?)

Houses would be identical, and thus less expensive; they could be built in bulk, no architect fees...

It's a wonder nobody's tried this before...

The point of the trans-fat ban
The point of this ban, or of any comparable ban, is not the public's health. It's the assertion of a higher morality by the "anointed" (Thomas Sowell), and the assertion of an unchecked authority over us grubby ones by those to whom power is all that matters.

This is the unholiest alliance: self-righteous prigs arm in arm with power-lusting thugs, swinging swords of police power and probing with lances of fear. Look at just about any controversy in our domestic political discourse and you'll see them aligned exactly as they are here.

LD
Although I think you say things just to get people upset, I am going to answer you.

Your so-called experts who should tell us what to do.

The same experts who said that salt or eggs were good for us, then bad, then good then bad then okay as long as you don't have too many?

The same experts who said the sweetener used in soda was bad, but forgot to tell people that you would have to drink 2 cases of soda, every day for years to get the same results?

The EPA experts, who under orders from their boss, kept changing the rules for testing second-hand smoke, resulting in a study so bad that the Supreme Court ended up throwing it out because it was so bad?

The experts who published the study on Trans-fat, whoes results were so bad and study methods so bad that their peers rejected it?

Just which experts are we suppose to believe have our best interest at heart instead of their personal agenda and wants for more grant money or more power or both?

I pay my own way, I buy what I want and I do what I believe is correct (as long as it is legal or doesn't hurt anyone else) and am willing to take the results of my life-style

Labels in clothes
I just saw a story this morning that someone in Briton wants to have labels in plus size clothing warning the person who wears them that they are obese.
Where does this nonsense end?

LD
Like Rick, I shouldnt reply to you but I will. Quite frankly I am tired of so-called experts who claim to know better than I what is either good or bad for me and try to force me to follow their stupid rules. I didnt give them that right, nor is there anything in the constitution that gives them that right. Actually, what you speak of smacks of communism. Last time I looked, this was still America. How much longer, I dont know. And to Marc Of CA, I live on a farm and grow my own corn, raise my own hogs, and soon some cattle. I also have my own flocks of ducks and chickens. And my family eats what we raise. So ban what they want...or try. The heartland of America still believes in freedom, unlike the liberal coasts.

Some day...
...all foods will be as beneficial to us as the current version of our old favorite cereals. Have any of you eaten Cocoa Puffs, Alpha-Bits, Honey (formerly Sugar) Smacks, lately? They're like eating cardboard with a light dusting of powdered artificial sweetener. Thanks a lot, health police!

What Will They Ban Next?
I've had it! I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore to quote a line from the movie Network (1976).

I've had family here in these United States since the Pilgrims landed in 1620. It's my turn to defend and preserve freedom and liberty. Who are these "food police"?

We cannot allow individual freedom to be diminished any further. Who funds these "food police" groups? Our taxes? Private organizations? The ACLU?

Where has the brave rugged individualist gone? Are we all latte drinking, sweater and loafer wearing pansies?

Legislators who bow to this miniscule minority of "food police" need to be sent back to the private sector and get out of politics.

Personal freedom, self control, personal responsibility and rugged individualism should rule the day here ladies and gentlemen.

Samuel Adams (to whom I'm related), would have already gotten a barrel of hot tar and a bucket of feathers ready for these people who think they're in control of our personal freedom.

Where are the patriots? God help us. The "food police" are out to diminish our personal freedom. Give me a break...

Marc
http://www.SaveTheGuns.com

Priming the pump
All of this intrusion on our free-market choices is nothing more than preparing us for national health care. Who will or will not receive priority for treatment will be determined by an individuals' choices to play by the social regulators' "rules".

The Nanny State, which purports to know what is best for all, will even create a new layer of bureaucracy to police our private choices. Ain't the State grand?

LD:
You say, "Sometimes we have to give up a portion of our freedom of choice for our own good."

Exactly! Which is why I support Bush's program of listening in to our international phone calls and the other restrictions on our freedoms that are needed to help us fight the reactionary Muslims.

Do you support them?

A Question
"But why do the health police get to take away my choices? Adults should be expected to take responsibility for their own health."

Amen Mr. Stossel.

I've got a question:

Why are so many of us conservatives rightfully outraged over this ban on trans fat and the continuing attempt to ban tobacco, but supportive of "The War on Drugs"?

Aren't they both examples of "the health police"?

Any takers?

I'm just looking forward...
To the day that "Mommy" bans something LD likes.

I wonder if LD has ever used an illegal drug. After all, LD, the government has banned them for your own good.

You don't speed, ever, do you? Those speed limits are there to protect you!

You don't stay up too late, or sleep too long, do you? The government hasn't regulated it yet, but they have said it's bad for you.

LD: You're either a fool or an idiot, or both. What makes you think that some flunky at EPA, HHS or the New York City Mayor's office is any smarter than anyone else?

LD's logic: Ban gays too?
LD says "If you choose to adopt an unhealthy lifestyle, the rest of the community has to pick up your slack when you fall ill."

The health risks of the "gay" lifestyle ar well-documented (even by "trained people" in government agencies). So by your logic we need those agencies to also "come out" in favor of banning homosexuality.

a few thoughts...
>It's almost funny, a woman has the right to choose to butcher her unborn child but I don't have the right to choose what I eat. It would be funny if it wasn't so frightening.

>My father was CA born and raised and he taught me how to fry my eggs in bacon grease... there is no other way to eat eggs!!!

>LD makes a very good case for the Dept of Homeland Security listening to our phone calls. "All I am saying is that we create government agencies in order to help protect ourselves, and the fact is that the researchers in such agencies are highly trained, ergo they are wise." Thank you LD for making GWB's case!

Smoking
When America gave in to the hate-propaganda of the anti-smoking fascists and allowed the current myriad of hate-laws and hate-taxes against smokers, it gave up the right to complain about the next moves of the health fascists to control people's personal lives. We need to start by repealing the hate-laws against smokers and eliminating all the hate-taxes on tobacco.

Ban liberty & freedom?
That's really what they are getting at. While the liberals think they are "helping us", they really want to limit our liberty and freedom to doing only the things they approve of. That is the essence of liberalism, let the gov't do all the thinking for you. Let the gov't take care of you, while you just hand over all your money and let them make all the tough decisions. I have an idea, how about providing us the information and letting us make the decision whether to eat or not eat trans-fat foods. I am not a child and do not need the gov't telling me what I can or can't eat. That is not the role of gov't, and if some would actually read the Constitution, they would learn that.

Super Rich
Why is it that those who wish to tell us how to live and seemingly know what's best for everyone, are all SUPER RICH politicians?

Personal responsibility
LD wrote:

"All I am saying is that we create government agencies in order to help protect ourselves, and the fact is that the researchers in such agencies are highly trained, ergo they are wise."

You're not even trying anymore. This is such a foolish statement, that only the farthest on the left would believe it, far enough left to make Mao blush.

I'm no fan of smoking (except for the occasional cigar), and I'm constantly frustrated to see the massively obese, like a pod of whales, trudging along the sidewalk. But ban all trans-fats?

Statistically, people with red cars speed more and are engaged in more accidents than people in other colored cars. Why not ban those? Statistically it would make sense.

And yes, to reiterate what someone else said earlier, you'll never see a total ban on tobacco. It makes too much money for both parties. The Democrats and their ABA worker bees need someone big to sue. If it's so bad, why not ban it entirely? They don't want to put a bullet in the head of their cash cow.

We're trading personal responsibility for corporate/societal responsibility. To collect all power and authority--over all things big and small--under one governmental umbrella is to court disaster.

Personal responsibility. Everything in moderation. I use that rule for my occasional cigar and my Gentleman Jack on the rocks. Served me well so far.

Experts
Are the ones who insisted we all switch to Oleo (margerine) in the first place!

Good intentions cost lives
Let's not forget the granddaddy of all "health scare" bans, that cost us (well, the world, not the US) millions of lives a year, DDT. As the government slowly admits that maybe they overestimated the risk of DDT and maybe it can be used again, they forget to mention that malaria rates that had dropped into the hundreds or less per year during DDT usage soared back into the millions while DDT was banned. But, they meant well, so why not let them continue to tell us what to do?

My point? Who is to say whether one of our current health fads may not prove wrong or even harmful? Yet it is on the basis of this faddish pseudoscience that the government chooses to regulate our lives.

Food Class Warfare
Another part of this that I think I heard is:
They are only banning trans-fat at restaurants that bring more than a certain limit in profits.

A sure sign that the class warfare crowd is also behind this.

No one was there to speak up for me.

Okay, gotta say it.
ban frigging liberals.

a insane world
i guess some people who respond on here do not understand history or the constitution. our fore fathers fought for our freedoms, long and hard as history has shown us. and yet we give up those liberties for the ilussion of protection. people like the loyal dem. should wake up. the govenment DOESN'T CARE ABOUT US ONLY THEIR LOBBIST and their next paycheck. we ban trans fat, and for what, a fat kid who parents can't say no to the spoiled little brat. it is our choice as to what we eat not the governments, however the scared ignorent masses seems to roll over upon command. I for one would like, to just for once, see logic rule over fear. if they wanna stop an epedemic how about stopping their ignorence.

LD..
Based on your logic, the government should outlaw perverted sex so as to eliminate STDs. You would agree, wouldn't you?

These so called experts have to "create" new problems to keep themselves employeed. Were they to actually do their job honestly, they'd work themselves out of a job.

Government Shoes, Training Camp Workers
Several years ago the federal government added up the numbers and figured out that was cost effective to provide shoes and custom inlays to Medicare recipients with diabetes mellitus. It would cut down on the number of amputees if ulcerations that form on someone’s feet were managed before they caused gangrene. A cottage industry was born.

Banning trans-fat is not really about good health for public good. It’s about saving money on projected budgets.

Unfortunately, this problem is not solved with regulating personal choices of what we eat. It’s the notion that we are all deserving of equal access to health care, as if health care is able to be handed out equally, that’s the problem. Government funded health care creates a dependency class, which is why it appeals to people like Loyal Democrat.

I like the term Mr. Stossel used earlier, “Prohibitionists”. They are looking for government to regulate everything, that way they will need to create more government agencies (jobs for dependents) to control more of our activities.

In order to save on dispensing money for medical care and other such concerns, government needs to cut that part of the budget, so they can afford to continue raising the salaries for workers in our government training camps, the public education system.

Government Control
Government has a duty to control our behavior to some degree, however, banning a food item is beyond that degree. I would have no problem with information being placed out there that trans fats are not good for you and have the industry and individuals select what they want to do. It seems that everytime someone brings up choice seatbelts becomes an issue. This is one of the government controls that is very reasonable. It takes little effort and does not impose on freedom. If you drive on government roads you must have a license, insurance, mechanically sound car, and have to obey traffic regulations. Someone mentioned the War on Drugs. This is a war that has not been fought as such. The problem with drug abuse is the behavior the rest of us have to deal with such as burglary, robbery, and theft. Some say that if we allow drug activity it will take the profit out of the drugs. That's debatable but it will not solve the problem of the crimnal behavior. Druggies are not going to get a job if drugs are legalized. Government control must be logical and must not interfere with true freedom of choice.

true...
...promiscuity presents a health threat to a specific segment of the population that far exceeds the threat posed by trans fats. So perhaps sexual relations out of wedlock should be altogether banned. Now some on the socially conservative spectrum would be fine with this, but I would hope that they would oppose it as yet another unlawful breach of privacy by government. And of course the social liberal (who ironically at the same time are proponents of socialism and government authoritarianism, when it comes to putting trans fats in your body) would be wholly opposed to any restrictions on sexual liberty.

I'm predicting the next crackdown will be on the sale of cigarettes in some Northeastern city. Soon it will be unlawful to sell them in any retail outlet within the boundaries of a city.

Mulroney
Doesnt look like it. Seems like thinking this hard makes their head hurt.

LD -
Careful - your bath water is coming to a boil!

Regulations are made for our own good.
That is just a big ton of "HOGWASH" Regulations are made to stop something that some "IDIOT" does not want.

There has NEVER been a report about some research that has not been proven wrong by another research report. Research for the most part are done today to obtain MONEY from either the government or some company. Like all dimicrats, Loyal Democrat is just, like ALL DIMICRATS, without knowledge of the real world and what happens within it.

The sad part of this is that we will cease to be a free country when the DIMICRATS (SOCIALISTS) manage to take over this country and install socialism. They are doing this slowly because the "average" people have been "brain washed" by the LIBERAL teachers and college professors into thinking that they are entitled to be "kept up" by the government. When this happens this country will cease to exist as a FREE COUNTRY. But, since I have already reach my "four score and ten" (for those of you who attended government school during the last 30-40 years that is 70) years and thankfully will not be around to see it.

Why do we have transfats anyway. It was done for the companies to make money out of a new product. We were given margarine durint WW II. That was expanded to include other similar items. Butter is now bad for you, but I do not eat mararine. I only eat butter along with ALL of those things that are bad for you like "FRIED" bacon and "FRIED" eggs. I have not been hospitalized in over 40 years for anything akin to any medical problem that we have been told are "BAD" for us.

The main agend of the dimicrats is to control the country not help the country.

WAKE UP PEOPLE they are winning slowly but surely.

Loyal Democrat writes:
"So be thankful that someone in the government is making wise decisions for you."

Dang if LD doesn't write and sound just like Kimberly.

BTW, I don't believe it's possible anyone in the government(s) can make wise decisions, wise being defined as "having knowledge," especially between good and evil.

"....: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge."
--Jer. 4:22

Marc of CA,congratulations!!!!!
You are the first person to get LD to reply to anything! I guess he had a bad feeling about his last paragraph.It wasn't up to his standards.But I do enjoy his posts!

George P.
Those SUPER-RICH politicians are:

a. usually liberals. Pelosi, Ted "NIMBY Kennedy, etc.

b. DON'T follow the laws. (Clintons).

c. Use the system to help themselves. (John Edwards creates shell corporations to shelter the millions he reaped after destroying the NC ob/gyn industry through his "channeling" efforts.)

What next?
Sex outside of marrage, spreads STD's
Candy, cakes and pies, makes folks fat
Motorcycles, mountain climbing, football, too many injuries...
Animals as pets, could turn on you.
cars, kill many folks
guns, folks may use them in self defense
production machinery, same as cars
heaters, burn down houses sometimes
tv, causes folks to not get exercise


Quesiton is, where is the list of things these marxist think we CAN do in this "free" country of ours.

Sadly
This is about healthcare. It is an extension of the logic that is always used:

"Government pays a portion of healthcare, therefore it is in the vested interest of government to keep people healthy."

this is why seatbelts are mandatory in most places.

In the end, this logic can -- and I personally believe WILL -- be used to mandate almost every facet of our lives. This is the real tyranny. This is much more frightening the oil companies, terrorists and the death of civility.

Of course, that's just me, and I am usually alone in my thinking on things like this.

LD......
I have read several of your posts on this, and other, topics.

I can only conclude that you are either:

(1) Having great fun at others expense.
(2) Without a clue as to what 'freedom' means.
(3) Just plain outta yur freaking mind.

porkaceuticals and other drugs
Food is a necessity, nothwithstanding its apparent fadishness in certain 3rd world nations. Drugs are not. Eating transfat will not generally lend itself to criminal behavior. Being a drug addict lends itself to a criminal (or liberal!) lifestyle much more readily. The roving gangs of lardingesting fat basta**** have not yet materialized.

What next
Are they going to ban trans-fat items from grocery stores so that people can't even cook with them if they want to? That would be the next "logical" step. However, logic doesn't seem to be part of the liberal, socialist mindset. So, who knows what will be next on their agenda.

I know this is mostly a question of freedom, but have they not thought about the economic consequences? Not only will people not spend as much money eating at restaurants, but the regulations to maintain these ordinances will be disastrous to many companies; it will cause the unemployment rate to increase, which will lead to more dependence on government. Thus, the socialist-democrats will succeed in their plans.

My grandparents cooked with lard and ate whatever they wanted and lived to be 91. I don't know about anyone else, but that's old enough for me.

LD
LD Wrote"Government agencies determined seat belts save lives, and we have accepted the laws that mandate their use. What is wrong with extending the same logic to what we consume? Sometimes we have to give up a portion of our freedom of choice for our own good. Those in the respective research agencies know more about what is good for us than we do as individuals, and we need to trust in their ability to make regulations that are designed to keep us safe.

As far as an individual having the right to make personal choices, such allowances cannot be allowed if the community as a whole will be effected by the decision. If you choose to adopt an unhealthy lifestyle, the rest of the community has to pick up your slack when you fall ill. Therefore, in cases where your decisions effect the community, you have no right to make bad ones."
One question LD.
Please explain to me how me not wearing seat belt is unsafe for the community around me?

Trans-fat
black markets are springing up everywhere with trans-fat labs being created in remote areas!

Michael Moore WILL NOT take this...lying down!


Brujo Blanco
Brujo Blanco writes: "It seems that everytime someone brings up choice seatbelts becomes an issue. This is one of the government controls that is very reasonable. It takes little effort and does not impose on freedom".

Really? I just got a seatbelt ticket for $25. What law was I breaking that affected anyone else? Where does that $25 go? Think about it BB.

Loyal Democrat
Oh, for Pete's sake, people! Can't you see that LD is being SARCASTIC?!

He (she?) is really on the same page as all the rest of us. He's just using the same old tired liberal talking points in an effort to make the libs look ridiculous.

It's a crying shame when the REAL liberals are so ridiculous that you can't distinguish them from the conservatives who are making fun of them. But I would have thought my fellow conservatives could figure it out.

Regards,
Trevor

Amen Phoneman
You hit the nail on the head. My family raised five of their kids during the 30's depression.

My family ate fried eggs, fried hog, fried chicken, fried squirrel, fried frog legs, fried crayfish tails, fried fish, and about anything else we could catch.

My family continued to eat all this "not good for you fried in grease foods" for decades, plus eating a lot of margarine and Trans Fat.

But eating all that bad stuff finally killed my mother, my dad and an older brother. My mother died about seven years ago at the age of 97. My dad died at the age of 82. Older brother died at the age of 80.

I still eat all that "harmful" food, I love Blue Bell ice cream, and I'm still plugging along at threescore and ten and four year of age.

LD, scare me some more about how I need Algore types to tell me what's bad for me.

BTW, I've driven cars and trucks for 57 years (more than a million miles) and have never had a need for wearing a seat belt.

But it makes me feel so-o-o-o-o-o good that I have some government bureau-cracked nuts that know how to protect me.

Stay with'em, Stossel.

Senseless hit piece.
Gee, this author sure isn't on the food industry's payroll. I roll my eyes in sarcasm, in case some of you mouth-breathers are confused.

By anyone's standards, it is downright manipulative to approach a topic like this with intangible concepts instead of practical arguments. It makes more sense to discuss what you disagree with instead of marching blindly forward with these alarmist, reactionary "they're taking our freedom" rants. As a journalist, or an author, using "freedom" and "rights"--and all that other symbolic speech that people mindlessly rally behind regardless of the subject in question--is not only off-topic but unrelated and socially irresponsible. But sure enough, the brainwashed cattle came marching in, absent-mindedly nodding their heads in agreement while regurgitating the same drivel featured in this article.

Now to address the point which you so brazenly (and frustratingly) neglected to mention: besides the obvious benefits to public health in the fattest nation in the history of the world, this keeps the corporations accountable. If a company is mass-marketing an known addictive product with known dangerous ingredients, shouldn't they be regulated? Your argument about alcohol and tobacco is irrelevant because they are not necessary to survive--food is. Sure, people have a choice of what to buy, but where does personal responsibility end and corporate responsibility begin? The foods they produce are known to have dangerous ingredients which have readily-available non-dangerous or less-dangerous alternatives. Shouldn't the corporations be held to a higher standard that requires them to use the alternatives in the interests of public health?

But no, according to your article, the food industry can do no wrong. Even though they provide inadequate-at-best health information and engage in outright denial that their products may pose a health risk, according to you the burden of change does not fall on them! Ridiculous! If you lost a few bucks on your stocks because of the trans-fat ban, I'm sorry. Honestly, the vibe I'm getting is that this article was fueled by personal ire, which would explain the emotionally-charged gibberish. Hell, you even cited a source that represents the food industry. Shame on you.

Sorry about the rant, but this article is just plain garbage. Either you've got a personal axe to grind over this, or you're just a bad writer. Terrible.

Dietary fat does not cause disease!!
I am a cardiologist. Over the last several years I have taken a very close look at the issue of whether dietary fat actually causes disease in humans. Despite all the papers, committees, and experts, I can find little evidence of more than a casual correlation.

If you compare a group with a very high cholesterol with one that is normal, the 10 year incidence of cardiovascular events is little different. Only 30% of individuals who have a heart attack have an elevated cholesterol. Despite numerous studies, no one has conclusively demonstrated that elimination of fat from your diet decreases the chance of a heart attack. In fact, if you eliminate fat you reduce your HDL cholesterol and thus this increases the risk of problems.

A good argument for this is presented in Skeptic Magazine. I highly recommend this publication. Of course nothing I have said should be taken as advice and you should consult your own physician for information.

Trevor
It just goes to show...if you throw a shoe out, no telling who or how many will put it on. One thing for sure...someone always does.

On the seatbelt issue, why are my kids not required to have a seat belt on while riding the schoolbus?? Or my buddy required to wear a helmet when taking his Harley out for a spin??

Just curious,
J

WHY BELIEVE CSPI
CSPI? Aren't they the lunatic fringe group run by the malnourished little skinny guy that keeps telling us that ALL good food is bad for us? Why does the MSM keep giving them credibility?
They specialize in hysteria and junk-science.

But of course liberals like it because it gives them an excuse to make another rule to boss people around with. Credibility? Who cares?

as an after-thought...
"I think they dislike freedom of choice. They know the right way, so it's only right that they force everyone to follow them. That's the philosophy of prohibitionists."

I think it's pretty damn funny to see this guy bitching about hypothetical fascism and the I-know-better-than-you mentality when he's the author of a book entitled,"Why Everything You Know is Wrong"

If a single one of you people think that's anything short of pure hypocrisy, then good lord, we're all alot worse off than I thought.

Mayor Bloomberg
You'll have to pry my KFC drumbstick and McDonald's french fries out of my cold dead hand. Besides, I have no intention of EVER visiting the People's Democratic Republic of New York City as long as idiots like you think you have carte blanche to tell everyone else what to do. LEAVE US ALONE.

WRONG.
It's not about telling you what to do, you simpleton. It's about telling irresponsible businesses what to do. This isn't a difficult concept.

sdm and Ransom
sdm...Boy, are you dense!!!

"Please explain to me how me not wearing seat belt is unsafe for the community around me?"

It ain't about that...if you get kilt dead...you can't pay taxes!! You know...federal, SS, medicare, state, sales...and don't forget all the fees you pay, car tag, DL, telephone, etc... Now wouldn't you feel real bad to deprive the gumint of all "their money"??

Ransom, all things in moderation...including moderation! (I think that part is called "living") Also, have you ever tried Woodford Reserve instead of GJ?

Reno
This ban will not hurt "Big Food." What it will do is have a small effect on the manufacturers of trans-fat products, but create another big industry in trans-fat replacement products.

Will they also be held to your same standards? Or will they be let off the hook because they are doing something YOU agree with? Perhaps you are being paid by the "trans-fat food replacement industry?"

same as before
So whats the difference with this and those damn seatbelt laws everyone is so proud of?

Reno
Is it irresponsible to give someone what they want? When some people do this, we call it Democracy. Perhaps you don’t like that either.

IrightI
Actually you are only part right in who benefits from seat belt laws. These were initiatives put together by the insurance companies to keep them from having to pay for the greater health cost of an unprotected accident.

The same with the information you have on cholesterol and diet fats. There it is the drug companies that are trying to sell statins. The more they can keep you aware of the drugs, the more you want them.

As an addition to my previous post, statins do help prevent heart attacks. But this is not directly related to cholesterol lowering. More related to an obscure anti-inflammatory affect which is likely the real reason for the disease. But we can't study that as well as everyone is hung up on cholesterol and not looking elsewhere as vigorously for answers. Again due to the money provided by the drug companies.

As much a reno is against the corporations, he is actually preaching their message and does not know it.

hey dumba$$es.......
Loyal Democrat is a troll looking to outrage people and elicit alot of angry responses that he likely sits back and laughs at. He's not a serious person. Just take a look at the transparency of his rhetoric. People who really believe the way LD portrays himself try harder to hide their true intent or water it down. Don't fall for the hype......but it looks like I'm too late.

Banning Smoking is not the Same thing
Some of you here have likened this ban to that of public smoking. I am not directly affected by anyone's consumption of oreos but I do cough and hack when someone blows smoke in my face.

kill yourself, see if i care
i believe that this ban should not exist. i also believe people should be allowed to off themselves nicey nice, no problem, with a doctors help if they see fit. here's the usual argument regarding bans of this nature:

once the government says that any goal of your life is bad, there's a slippery slope. what else might they ban? people should be responsible for their own lives, and the consequences produced by their actions.

to which a liberal will say: but if you do things you want, it could burden the community!

so what do i think? youth in asia (i do know how to spell it, it's just funnier this way, and i dont care if youre sensitive to the fact that i'm making fun of suicide) should be legal. it follows both sides' arguments. a) the state aint gonna tell me what to do with my life & b) im not burdening anyone but my family to stick me in a box or burn me up.

that's right, i think friedman's principle should include offing yourself. you obviously have thought about the consequences. if you can eat a cheese sandwich and say "well, it might hurt me, but i dont care." why cant you say "i want to hurt so that i die."? is it that you can't have the direct goal of hurting yourself? you have to do it indirectly for it to be valid? how does that make any sense?

oh, and i'm pround to have been born in brooklyn and to be a non-christian (thats right, im not a godder) conservative. so anyone who says they hate NYC or wont visit here, please make good on your promise.

yep
well, one could say about the smoking ban, "people could choose not to walk into a restaurant that has smokers inside."

however, it behooves businesses to let people smoke inside if it is legal because it will attract a wider array of customers. saying, "you can't come in with that" reduces your market.

naturally, then, non-smokers are subject to market forces thus endangering their health.

here's another argument for the smoking ban:
the smoker changes the status quo for all those around him. the non-smoker affects nothing.

Redhead
Of course it won't hurt Big Food, it just keeps them in check. And you're damn right they'll be held to the same standards. If trans-fat is being replaced by something just as bad or worse (and we simply don't know it yet) then they ought to replace that. It's called progress. It's why we use cars instead of horses. It's why we've improved those cars to be safer and cleaner. Because if there's a better way of doing something, the general consensus is that it ought to be done.

The only exception to that consensus that I can think of are governments and corporations that don't want to pony up the cash to make it happen.

smoking......
Smoking in an enclosed environment may affect a non smokers health....smoking outside, or in your own apartment or car, does not. alot of the new smoking laws being floated around would ban smoking in your own home if it is a multi family home andin your own car, and anywhere at all if you have children. This is going well past the original stated intent of the anti-smoking laws, and are a template for how new laws concerning health and food will be handled.

It all comes down to health care
All the arguments fall apart without subsidized health care of one form or another. If no one pays for my hospital bill or my doctors visits then what does it matter if I wear a seat belt or not, smoke 2 packs a day, drink a case of diet cola and wash it all down with a couple of large fries?

Why do you think Hillary's big push was for universal health care? It isn't because she stays up nights worrying about the little people (that's us). No any time you hear some liberal loon going on for the need for better health care, you can bet he/she is really looking for a way to control us unruly masses. After all -- it's for our own good.

oh and....where does it stop?
It stops at the one human right that the left holds more sacred than any other......the right to be promiscuous. So long as their is no stigma on promiscuity, the government is free to regulate all other behavior. If sexual freedom is ever threatened, only then will you hear liberals starting to complain. And yes, sexual promiscuity does affect overall health of a society, as sex spreads disease.

Why sexual freedom over all others? Two reasons. One, it feels good, two, promiscuity erodes the family unit, which was once the primary economic unit, therefore leading to more dependency on government.

Great posts all!
Save for LD and any other Demo/Libs.

George P. has asked..
"Why is it that those who wish to tell us how to live and seemingly know what's best for everyone, are all SUPER RICH politicians?"

He touches on one of the 'unseen' an un-talked about problems. Why is it that *all politicians,* who produce absolutely nothing by labor. Become super rich? Easily answered. They steal our money in the form of tax's and regulations. There are no true Statesmen who care for our country anymore!

The current crop of corrupt politicians spend all their waking hours figuring out ways to rip us off using the law! Folks should think deeply about this. They are the so-called Law Makers. Why do they use Liberalism as a blind. Because they can always say "It's for the good of the country!" In that way, they can exempt themselves while making it palatable to the naive.

In reality, no politician will vote for a law unless it benefits him in the form of rich rewards. In the form of Kickback's or behind the seen business deals. You can bet that there is a lot more to this "Trans-Fat" thing than meets the eye. If we could have access to all records (follow the money) I'm sure we would find that some politician(s) either have stock or made deals to receive stock in competition oils. And what better way to eliminate the competition than to pass a law to ban them! Their stock and riches would soar!

These politicians could care less about the people except to be treated as sheep! To be manipulate and extract your money.

All of us are still asking How did Hillary turn $1,000 into $100,000 within a few months.

RE: Loyal Democrat
We should be thankful, rather, that the framers of our government gave the government limited powers enumerated by a constitution. They truly did that for our own good.

We should be critical of those men--legislators, judges, and executives, dead and living--who over the past 150+ years have managed to expand government power well beyond its constitutional bounds. Mind you, most of those men think/thought they are/were doing it for the overall good.

Here are two issues to consider:
(1) Whether or not government should try to protect us from eating and drinking what the science du jour considers to be unhealthy; whether it should force us to wear seatbelts, motorcycle helmets, etc; and so forth.
(2) Whether or not government currently has the [controlling] legal authority to do so.

We've read your opinion on issue (1). My opinion on issue (1) is incompatible with yours, but I wish to skip over issue (1) and onto issue (2). For if the answer to issue (2) is negative, which I believe it is--at least at the Fed'ral level--then issue (1) is irrelevant.

A hallmark principle of constitutional government is this: Just because something seems to be good or beneficial--that does not give government automatic authority to do it. That's legally true of the Fed'ral government and hopefully also of the various state governments.

The Fed'ral government's authorities (is that a Bush-ism?) are limited to those enumerated in the Fed'ral constitution. Many of the agencies you have in mind are no doubt Fed'ral, and most of them have no constitutional mandate to exist, let alone to do the things they do every day. The FCC, the FDA, the CDC, et al--if you want them to exist legally, you really must amend the constitution. To draw a loose parallel--Prohibition [of alcoholic beverages] was demonstrably a disaster, but you have to credit those who enacted it for realizing that it required amending the constitution.

By the way, regulations are not law, at least in the case of the Fed'ral government, for the simple reason that the [elected] legislature may not delegate its lawmaking authority to anyone else, let alone to unelected government agencies, even if they're supposedly looking out for our good.

RE: Dan / Ban liberty & freedom?
“That's really what they are getting at. While the liberals think they are "helping us", they really want to limit our liberty and freedom to doing only the things they approve of. That is the essence of liberalism. . .”

>>

Puh-Lees.

That is NOT the essence of liberalism. THAT is the essence of POLITICS. By their very nature politicians seek to impose their will upon others, to restrict the behavior they DISagree with while encouraging and endorsing the behaviors they approve of.

And, it is certainly not limited to liberals. Plenty of conservatives, especially of the evangelical variety, also seek to limit freedom to only the things THEY approve of. It is conservatives, by and large, that limit the freedom of individuals to exchange money for services if those services are sex. It is conservatives, particularly evangelicals, that limit the freedom of individuals to exchange money for goods if those goods are alcohol (and it is Sunday) or certain narcotics. It is primarily conservatives that limit the freedom of individuals to dispose of their property as they see fit if the property is money and the disposition is on games of chance.

In every society you will encounter people that disapprove of what others do and believe that it is up to them (the nannyists) to prevent the others from doing those bad bad things. That is why we NEED strong Constitutions and limits upon the police power of the government to protect the Rights of individuals to engage in peaceable conduct EVEN when others disapprove.

RE: Brujo Blanco / Government Control
“Government has a duty to control our behavior to some degree. . .”

>>

The moment you accept that premise you are a subject and no longer a citizen.

It is solely the responsibility and duty of individuals to control our own behavior; self-governance. The government should only ever interfere when our behavior commits aggression upon the Equal Rights of others. Otherwise, the government has no such duty.

To cede government that duty… to grant it that authority… is to surrender your individual sovereignty to the state and, thereby, your individual Freedom. It is to declare that your life does not belong to you -- that you have no Right to Life -- but that your life belongs to the government. It is to admit that what autonomy the government “allows” is simply a boon that may be revoked at the government’s whim.


"No man has the natural right to commit aggression against the Equal Rights of others and this is all from which the government ought to restrain him." -- Thomas Jefferson

another thing...
I am loathe to associate myself with either ideology since they're pre-packaged, mindless philosophies (honestly, how many so-called "free-thinking people" could possible have the exact same opinions on everything?), nor do I wish to associate myself with either party, since both sides are run by lying crooks. However, I can hardly stop myself from responding to all this nonsense.

What's all this talk about "liberals think this" or "liberals do that?" Have any of you seen or spoken to an actual liberal? Honestly, I was in the same boat at one point, back in my college/political science/Rush Limbaugh days.

Contrary to popular (and so-called) Conservative belief, Liberals are often befuddled when you come at them with these statements and rantings. The most common response to these accusations is, simply,"That isn't true." I'd say your sources of information are purposefully driving a divide for political gain, without giving a slim sh*t about what's good for the rest of us. Or is every liberal a liar? Do any of you honestly believe that?

Since experience is obviously not a factor amongst this crowd, it's difficult not to come to the conclusion that most of you people are saying these things because someone--most likely a TV or radio pundit--told you so, thereby absolving you of any obligation to see for yourselves. What I'm getting at, people, is that along the way, someone has clearly lied to you. Wake up! Meet a liberal. You'll find that you agree on more things than you want to believe.

CMoore
Again, this isn't about the government controlling people, it's about the government holding businesses responsible for the products they put out. If you want to use trans fats in your home cooking, go right ahead. All they're saying is that trans fats are deemed a public health risk, and businesses aren't allowed to sell them. Just like cocaine was deemed a health risk and was restricted from being used in food consumables.

Since you folks are all about "logic" (it's sad that this is what passes for logic these days), let's try following your logic, shall we? By your line of reasoning, businesses should be allowed to put arsenic, cyanide, dogshit, and semen in our food products, even though they're deemed "unfit." After all, who should restrict our freedom to eat poisons and excrement?

Classic liberalism
involved freedom from government control.

In this new century, liberalism (socialism) is ALL about government control. The leftists see no problem with that. With an amazing lack of sense regarding historical perspective, the left wants to control what we eat.

When will they start telling us how much to eat?

Fine then reno.....
....let's ban promiscuity and homosexuality then....after all both of those are unhealthy lifestyles that can and often do lead to health problems. Let's ban all anal intercource and all unprotected sex. Let's ban children outside of marraige and divorce as both lead to economic hardships. Let's ban alcohol and cigarettes, as well as candy. Let's ban videogames, and television, as they lead to sedintary lifestyles. Let's ban music, as it leads to dancing which often leads to promiscuity.

The Abridgement of Personal Rights
Let us assume that there is a maginal health risk in the consumption of trans fat and therefore a reduction in risk associated with the banning of the substance. Let us also assume that there is a marginal reduction in food taste (this does not affect me, as I avoid all fried foods) with the removal of trans fat. As in all things, this decision must be made in regards to benefit weighed with cost. Fundamentally then, one must ponder whether it is better to make such decisions individually or by force of government. Reno suggests we avoid the intangible in our arguments. In that case, let us examine the history of government control of the lives of individuals. Cuba, the Soviet Union, the economy of France, and North Korea come to mind. Given that governments historically reap disastrous results when given absolute control, why would one want to accede to such usurpation of rights by the government? If a morbidly obese man decides the flavor of french fries is more valuable than the damage to his health then let one pity him but not begrudge him this choice, nor pretend to have a superior intellect so as to be allowed to abridge his rights. And finally, reno, please don't stoop to insults of my intelligence. I have an IQ of 164 and an advanced degree in mathematics, and in any case to equate a person's worth with their intelligence (as by implication you do with your insults) is silly and wrong.

I'm not surprised
First, we allowed these Health Crusaders do away with smoking in public areas. Most of you cheered, and I said to myself, "Just wait...this will snowball into other things and pretty soon, all us adults will be treated like school children being monitored on what else we chose to ingest into our system."

It pains me to be right. Now Trans Fats are a no-no said by the Health Crusaders. This will leak from town to town, state to state just like the smoking ban. Why? Because we allowed the 1st example to happen. Doesn't matter if smoking is considered filthy or dangerous, we allowed a group to dictate people's choices. We made it law. We created penalities. Bravo. Couldn't live with a smoking section? Couldn't let a restaurant, corporation or bar make that choice for themselves, employees or their patrons? No? Oh well, here we are! Congratulations!

So if you don't live in NY, get ready for rice cakes and no-flavored chewing gum. Oh, by the way....Like booze? I suggest you begin to stock that in your basements.

Reno
“It's called progress. It's why we use cars instead of horses. It's why we've improved those cars to be safer and cleaner. Because if there's a better way of doing something, the general consensus is that it ought to be done.”

These were also accomplished by business. If the general consensus is that it ought to be done, then there’s a market for it. If there’s a market for it, someone will do it. If you build it, they will come.

If there is a large market for it, let those businesses that want to be trans-fat free advertise as such. If there is a market for it, those that don’t join them will soon go out of business. The people will vote with their wallets. It’s true democracy.

Goshawk 1156/ CMoore1207
Great Posts!



dont worry
im living in nyc and i agree with the smoking ban (see above), but i dont agree that it was (or perhaps, more correctly, should be) the cause of the "slippery slope."

the smoking ban was not put into place to protect a person from his own habits provides. it was put in place to protect another person from a certain individuals habit.

it is true, if a governmental body is charged with infringing on individual freedom, then a slippery slope to that affect will exist; but this is not what the governmental body was charged with by the smoking ban. so, i will fight the transfat ban.

"Couldn't let a restaurant, corporation or bar make that choice for themselves, employees or their patrons?"

I already answered that with:

"well, one could say about the smoking ban, "people could choose not to walk into a restaurant that has smokers inside."

however, it behooves businesses to let people smoke inside if it is legal because it will attract a wider array of customers. saying, "you can't come in with that" reduces your market.

naturally, then, non-smokers are subject to market forces thus endangering their health."

oh, and just to be fair, i smoke.

Reno
To answer your other question:
“By your line of reasoning, businesses should be allowed to put arsenic, cyanide, dogshit, and semen in our food products, even though they're deemed "unfit." After all, who should restrict our freedom to eat poisons and excrement?”

I say that the market will also solve these problems. When enough people get sick at a business, others will stop going there. Taco Bell comes to mind.

Also, I have 2 very liberal brothers. We agree on a few things, but they also refuse to learn basic economics. It does make Thanksgiving dinner fun, though.

Follow the money

Goshawk, you and I think alike - so you are smart!

If the "government" is so smart why do we taxpayers still pay faarmers to grow tobacco (think tax revenue). Tax by the pack and carton by both the state and the federal governments.

The exact same thing is true of alcohol. Why ban drinks at the bar? there you'll get a one ounce shot of booze per drink. Stop at a store or a state liquor store on your way home after work and you'll buy a bottle right? A big bottle is a better buy so buy the biggest right? Pour that drink at home and you'll pour a healthy shot of 1 1/2 or 2 oz right? Now look at the tax structure as evidenced by the sticker on the top of that bottle, it is taxed by the gallon by both state and federal agencies, so both the state and the federal governments make more money when you buy that bottle instead of a drink at the bar.

Just follow the money. Yes the/our politicions know how to milk us.

Ed


reno the ranter
I take exception to your analogy of progress referencing the horse and buggy and the automobile. Certainly, the substitution of trans fats with healthier alternatives is progress in the same way that the substitution of the horse-drawn cart with automobiles is progress, but the progress in transportation was not achieved at the point of a gun and with an array of laws. Instead, it was accomplished by the market, which could produce a mode of transportation more efficient, less expensive to maintain, and faster than the status quo, the horse and buggy.

You are ignoring the evidence provided in the article (which means you probably didn't read the article, but you probably didn't need to since you are so brilliant that you can anticipate what Stossel was going to write) that the absence of trans fats has now become a selling point for many food items. Lays Potato chips removed trans fats long before any government banned them - they did so in reaction to consumer pressure (including lawsuits from advocacy groups).

Taco Bell took a big hit from its tainted green onions. It remedied its situation thanks to mounting consumer pressure, not from a government ban on green onions or other taco ingredients.

The gist of the article is that government regulation leads down a slippery slope. Reality is that government cannot protect us from everything, and most people don't want it to protect us from everything.

What happens when the trans fat substitute is deemed to be health hazardous? DDT was banned from use in many countries thanks to environmental and health advocacy groups, all in the name of progress. However, the costs of this ban have resulted in widespread malaria outbreaks in many third-world (particularly African) countries since other pesticides have not been as effective in controlling mosquito populations. Every action has its reactions and its unanticipated consequences.

And If you think Stossel is a restaurant industry shill, prove it with the facts that you so hypocritically demand of everyone else.

no way man
im not going to pay for overpriced shots at a bar just so uncle sam doesnt get tax revenue. im trying to get drunk here. its nearly noon!

LOYAL DEMOCRAT
Is there such a thing as a loyal democrat?

IrightI
Hey bud I wish I was that dense! Then maybe I wouldn't feel the need to read these columns and comments try to educate myself on how to beat back the libs. By reading these articles and comments and commenting myself, very rarely, I am trying to see who has the best ideas and gather ammunition to take the fight to my local libs. I am not the smartest guy around and I will never pretend to be. But with my post I was trying to get BB to think about what he said. I know where the money goes. I know the seatbelt law is not about hurting others. I appreciate your input but not the name calling. On another note...I love Woodford Reserve. Have you ever tried Basil Hayden's(By far my favorite). It is part of the Jim Beam Small Batch Collection.

haha
I must admit, you bunch have tickled my funnybone. Here we are, complaining about personal freedoms being taken away. What spurred this discussion? Banning businesses from using dangerous substances in the food they serve you. Yet, at the same time, we have a president that has conducted thousands of illegal wiretaps, passed the largest and most blatant blow to the bill of rights since Roosevelt's New Deal, repeatedly superseded federal and international laws, policies and procedures, and lied us into two wars (yes, two. The Taliban you people hate so much were compliant and willing to hand over Osama if we provided evidence that he was the one being 9/11. We could not, so instead we said they were harboring terrorists and refused to hand them over. Nice spin, right? Bet you didn't hear that in one of his speeches.) This is the same president who, judging by the comments on this article, 99% of you voted for.

And yet you people complain about our God-given right to fatty French fries being "taken away". Pathetic. How sad, how unbelievably sad we've become.

Anyway, I'm not here to tell you it's right or that it's wrong (yes, I agree with what they've done), I'm just trying to explain why it was done, which seems to be beyond comprehension by the majority of you.

Pogue--I'd be opposed to the government or other entity telling any of us what we socially or privately can or cannot do as long as nobody is getting robbed, cheated, hurt, or killed. I'm not opposed to holding businesses to standards to ensure that the products they're selling us are safe.

For example, telling me what I can or cannot do in the bedroom -- unacceptable. Removing potentially fatal pesticides from the market -- acceptable. Telling me that I can't own a gun -- unacceptable. Telling a violent felon that they can't own a gun -- acceptable. Catch my drift?

sawhorse--I don't need to flaunt any imaginary qualifications to make myself credible. The rest is just observation.

Redhead--I'd say that judging by the aforementioned package advertising that the market has already spoken. Is making it official that hard of a stretch?

Heh, I've also got some politically colorful relatives and in-laws. Some liberal, some conservative. With them, I try to abide by the "Demonstrating Absurdity by being Absurd" doctrine I learned from the venerable Rush Limbaugh. I've got to give the man credit--even when he's wrong, he can make anybody look like an idiot. Cheers!

David
The seat belt part was just a "funny". I was not aware of the anti-inflamatory effects of statins...are they some type of COX inhibitor or a more specific inhibitors of TXA2?

Orwell couldn't have written this better
I got into a debate on this very subject with a (very) liberal co-worker of mine. I argued that a governmnet ban on trans fats limits our freedom as consumers, and limits the freedom of the small business owners who sell them in restaurants and grocery stores.

My co-worker's argument was interesting (and rather enlightening about the liberal point of view). She said that while middle-class and rich people can choose what they eat, there are poor people out there who cannot afford to choose, and thus are forced to eat trans fats.

So you see, this ban isn't about our freedom- it's about protecting the poor people! And my co-worker accused me, TWICE, of not caring about poor children. I kid you not.

So there you have it. We need the government to be Big Brother and take away our freedom so that we can all be forced to help the poor who supposedly cannot take care of themselves. Thank you, Karl Marx!

RENO..Eat at home...
We live in Wisconsin. The food police told us in the '60's not to eat butter. Margarine which was better known as 'oleo' was 'illegal' in Wissconsin. As dad suffered a heart attack, we took the advice of the food police, and smuggled in oleo from Michiga. Dad died in May of 1970, at age 49. It had to have been the damn oleo. You lib's are missing a real opportunity to tax us. (oops) Put signs on trans fat food like on cig's. Then sue the fat fooders in 20 years. Then split the money between the states, to balance the state budgets (for the children of course). Aparently you have been eating doggy doo, as you've sure been spewing it.(Oops, time for a butter cheeseburger, washed down by Point beer. Time for Rush anyway.) PS: Look out for the spinich and onions out there in NY. JP

You conservatives should really
pick a position and stick with it. You're all for government bans if it stops abortion or gay marriage, but when it's banning something that's actually proven to be terrible for you, you cry foul. Just because you happen to like the "texture" of french fries. Ruminate on the ridiculousness of that last sentence for a minute.

This ban exists because trans fats are horrible for you. In case you hadn't noticed, we have an obesity epedemic on our hands in this country. Many people don't realize that the food they are eating have trans fats in it. Some people just aren't well-informed, and not all restaurants make nutrition information instantaneously available (often it's tucked away on the restaurant's website somewhere).

look at the bright side!
I'm picturing drug dealers now asking their clientele if they want fries with that. LMAO!!

IT WILL GET WORSE UNLESS -
THE SHEEPLE RISE UP !
Consider:
Louisville, KY just all but banned pit bulls
Denver, CO banned and CONFISCATED and killed pitbulls and rottweilers (and not the halfwits raising the dogs to fight).
Most guvmint entities require seat belts in cars to be worn.
Most guvmint entities require motorcycle riders to wear helmets.
Now ANY guvmint can take your property for ANY reason and GIVE it to ANYBODY it wants to for ANY reason thanks to SCOTUS.
The guvmint was the outfit that ORIGINALLY SAID THAT TRANS FATS SHOULD BE SUBSTITUTED FOR BUTTER!!!

REMEMBER IT!!!!

THE ARROGANCE OF POWER WILL GET WORSE AS POWER CONTINUES TO CORRUPT. YET OUTSIDE FORCES, COUPLED WITH THE ROT WITHIN WILL ONLY CAUSE TOTAL COLLAPSE SOONER THAN ANYBODY CAN BELIEVE.


RE: reno / CMoore
Nevermind that my comments about government control were directed to someone else’s remark that the government has a “duty” to control people’s behavior “to some degree”…

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“Again, this isn't about the government controlling people, it's about the government holding businesses responsible for the products they put out. If you want to use trans fats in your home cooking, go right ahead. . .”

>>

What a load of horse pucks!!

“Holding businesses responsible” is little more than a pretty euphamism designed to sell the idea to the public conscience. It is about control, plain and simple. And if you truly believe that this is NOT just an opening salvo in an agenda of incremental controls then you are as stupid and/or shortsighted as the folks who claimed the efforts to ban smoking on airlines would NOT lead to general smoking bans.

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“. . . All they're saying is that trans fats are deemed a public health risk, and businesses aren't allowed to sell them. Just like cocaine was deemed a health risk and was restricted from being used in food consumables. . .”

>>

Bullshite!!

First, “public health risk” is just a euphamism for “common good” used to justify another restriction on freedom and liberty and, again, sell the idea to the public conscience. Congratulations. You’re stupid enough to fall for it!

Second, if it is a legitimate “public health risk”, then why stop at “businesses”? Why NOT ban it? You talk about logic. Logic dictates consistency. If it IS a legitimate “public health risk” then consistency demands that it be banned altogether, not just in restaurants.

Failure to ban it altogether puts light to the “public health risk” lie. It clearly demonstrates that the intent has nothing to do with concerns for public health (otherwise they would have banned trans-fats entirely). If public health risks are NOT the actual intent, then there must be some other intent.

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”Since you folks are all about ‘logic’ (it's sad that this is what passes for logic these days), let's try following your logic, shall we? By your line of reasoning, businesses should be allowed to put arsenic, cyanide, dogshit, and semen in our food products, even though they're deemed "unfit." After all, who should restrict our freedom to eat poisons and excrement?

>>

Your logic fails. (It IS sad what passes for “logic” these days… it is even sadder that you are too stupid to realize it’s YOUR logic that fails…)

There is a distinct difference between putting POISONOUS and DEADLY ingredients into food substances and using food substances with POSSIBLE health RISKS.

Redhead
OUTSTANDING POST!

Unfortunately, it will soar over the empty heads of the liberals who will read and wonder, "huh?"

W.C Fields had it right
"The best things in life are either illegal, immoral, or fattening" Ole W.C. is attributed as saying.
Now the busybodys are doing their best to ruin it for the rest of us. I seem to remeber a mantra from the left that proclaimed "keep your laws off my body!" It might be that assessment comes from the worry that 'baby fat' should be avoided at any cost.
Or maybe some people have a pathological need to be bossed around by the government. The idea of the thought police is intellectually bankrupt, but the food police is even more ridiculous.

W.C Fields had it right
"The best things in life are either illegal, immoral, or fattening" Ole W.C. is attributed as saying.
Now the busybodys are doing their best to ruin it for the rest of us. I seem to remember a mantra from the left that proclaimed "keep your laws off my body!" It might be that assessment comes from the worry that 'baby fat' should be avoided at any cost.
Or maybe some people have a pathological need to be bossed around by the government. The idea of the thought police is intellectually bankrupt, but the food police is even more ridiculous.

sdm
Don't take the name calling to be serious...I was just writting a "funny". I too read these postings to have an idea as to thoughts of others...even if they seem to be wrong. A quick story that happened to me in 1989. I was taking a photo class and one of the assignments was to demonstrate depth of focus and the different f-stops. I put a white piece of construction paper on the kitchen table and was placing dominoes in a diagonal row such that only the paper and dominoes would appear on the photo. The problem that occurred was no matter how careful I was they kept falling over...I became more and more irritated with each failure. My 4 year old daughter was sitting at the table watching me and as I was just about to tell her to leave so she wouldn't bump the table...she said "Dad?" "WHAT?" "Why don't you use tape to keep them from falling over?" Talk about being dense! Using her suggestion, I got an "A" for the assignment. The lesson I learned was to actually listen to what others have to say about a problem.

I have not tried the Basil Hayden...thanks for the tip!!
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