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Tuesday, March 31, 2009
John Hawkins :: Townhall.com Columnist
The Top Seven Techniques Liberals Use to Lie About Conservatives
by John Hawkins
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Liberals spend much of their time trying to hide what they believe from the public while conservatives are perpetually frustrated by the fact that the American people don't seem to understand what we really believe. Both problems spring from a single source: liberals lie incessantly. That's not to say that there aren't conservative liars or truthful liberals; there are, but for liberals, lying is the rule, not the exception.

There are two reasons why liberals lie much more than conservatives. First off, this is a center-right country and liberal beliefs are much more unpopular than conservative ones. If liberals told the truth about what they believe and want to do, the Democratic Party would practically be wiped out in much of the country.

Additionally, conservatives tend to think liberals are merely stupid or emotional, while liberals tend to view conservatives as evil -- and liberals use that belief to justify lying about conservatives. After all, if you lie about someone who's evil to keep them from doing bad things, couldn't that be considered virtuous? You may disagree with that, but liberal politicians, bloggers, and journalists live by that rule. Any lie told about a conservative, even one that liberals know isn't true, will be uncritically repeated ad nauseum by the Left until the point it becomes politically disadvantageous to do so.

So, in order to help fight the lies of the Left, here's a guide to the most prevalent techniques that liberals use to mislead people about conservatives. If you're listening to liberals talk about conservatives, you're virtually guaranteed to hear at least one of these techniques used.

1) Question The Motivations: When liberals are losing an argument, they love to shift the discussion not to the facts at hand, but to the motivation of the person on the other side. That's because it's almost impossible to prove what someone's motive may be for a particular action.

Thus, liberals can claim that Charles Pickering, a man who went toe-to-toe with the Mississippi Ku Klux Klan in the sixties, is actually a racist or that George Bush invaded Iraq to try to steal its oil.

From the liberal perspective, the more shameless the lies, the better because the target of the scandalous accusation and his defenders will often waste inordinate amounts of time and energy fighting ridiculous, unfounded allegations that a certain percentage of uninformed Americans will simply assume are true without evidence.

2) The Anonymous Smear: Want to launch an attack at a conservative, but don't have a credible source handy? No problem. Just take a vicious critic or an unreliable source and make them "anonymous."

CBS did it with Bill Burkett, who provided them with the fake "Bush was AWOL" documents during the 2004 campaign. Had they revealed who he was, the story would have been treated as not credible from day one.

If even that proves too troublesome, some members of the media (I strongly suspect Seymour Hersh is guilty of this) just make things up and attribute them to non-existent sources. Since their sources are anonymous, unless they make the mistake of including verifiable details like the New Republic's Scott Beauchamp, it's almost impossible to prove they're lying.

3) The Teary Eyed Spokesman: One of the Left's favorite tactics of late is to pick pathetic figures we're supposed to feel sorry for as spokesmen. That way, if you try to respond to the lies of someone like Cindy Sheehan, you're accused of picking on the mother of a dead soldier. If you try to respond to the lies of Max Cleland, you're accused of picking on a crippled vet. At this point, I'm surprised they haven't found a gaunt, stuttering orphan to serve as Obama's Press Secretary. Worst-case scenario, he couldn't do much worse than Robert Gibbs.

4) Rewriting History: The American public has a short memory and liberals count on that to get away with many of their most egregious lies. For example, that's the factor liberals count on when they try to pretend that George Bush lied about WMDs to get us into Iraq. Lies of that sort usually seem to work until someone points out that Democrats, including our current Secretary of State, were saying things like this before the war,

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including Al Qaeda members, though there is apparently no evidence of his involvement in the terrible events of September 11, 2001. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons. Should he succeed in that endeavor, he could alter the political and security landscape of the Middle East, which as we know all too well affects American security." -- Hillary Clinton, October 10, 2002

5) Everybody Knows: When liberals want to avoid a losing argument, they sometimes just refuse to have the argument at all and assure everyone that the matter has already been decided. Why, there's no need for Al Gore to even debate global warming with people who could easily blow holes the size of the Grand Canyon in his arguments because he insists that there's a non-existent "scientific consensus."

The Swift Boat Veterans for Truth? As long as the Kerry campaign ignored them, most of the mainstream media did, too, but then the line of attack was immediately that the Swifties had already been "discredited." Who discredited them? How did it happen? What made them less credible than Kerry, particularly since they made him change his story more than once? Whenever you hear liberals in some form or fashion insisting that the argument with conservatives on a particular issue is already over, it's a good indication that they believe they'll really get their clocks cleaned in a straight up debate.

6) The Ransom Note Method: One of the Left's favorite tricks is to take something a conservative says completely out-of-context and to attack that comment, even if it's obvious that they're twisting the meaning of what was said. This is how the Left can accuse John McCain of wanting to fight for 100 years in Iraq or say Rush Limbaugh wants Barack Obama to fail even if it hurts the country.

This one is especially insidious because some conservatives foolishly blame other conservatives for having their words taken out of context. However, the reality is that if someone is determined to distort what you say, he can always find something to twist around. The people who deserve blame in that situation are not the people whose words were misrepresented; it's the liars who have chosen to misrepresent what they said.

7) The Straw Man: If you can't find a sin conservatives have committed to attack, then invent one. This is one of the most used arrows in the quiver of liberals who claim the Right wants to create a theocracy, kick senior citizens off of Social Security, or reward the rich at the expense of the middle class.

The Left uses this tactic against specific politicians as well. Remember during the 2004 campaign when the Left kept promising to fight a draft that Bush didn't propose and didn't support? How about all the attacks on Saxby Chambliss because he supposedly questioned the patriotism of crippled war vet Max Cleland? Except, of course, Saxby Chambliss never questioned Cleland's patriotism.

Unlike liberals, conservatives believe most Americans share our values and so, if you want to know what we think, all you have to do is ask us and we will tell you.

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About The Author
John Hawkins is a professional blogger who runs Right Wing News, Linkiest, and Viral Footage.
 
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#8
Name calling. That's really one of their first arguments. For example, if I were to say to a liberal "I don't like Obama's budget proposal." Their argument against me would be "You are a racist bigot!" Facial flushing and expressive contortions would be included in that sharp retort as well.

Great list, John
I can look over this list and see how every single one of these techniques was used, sometimes more than once, against Sarah Palin.

the problem of motes
It is one day since a Townhall column, instead of addressing Obama's actual plan tried to explain why Obama's actual motivation is to weaken America. Presumably we will see Hawkins' column attacking conservatives for challenging the motivation of liberals instead of their views. After all a conservative would never accuse a liberal of being evil. Ok they would never do it more than 7 times in a given column.

The funny thing is there is not actually any item on the list above that liberals haven't done. But there is also nothing there that conservatives haven't done. Hawkins has a serious mote problem.

Great article
The want-a-be government slaves just attacked Burt as a racist for pointing out the truth. By the way, the use of "racist" has worked very well for them. From Imus, to the Duke lacrosse players to the cops in Oakland - really, when will this end.

The want-a-be government slaves talk with horror about McCarthism. Mcarthism pales in comparison to their use of the word "racists". I have "hope" that history will put the want-a-be government slaves in their proper place.

Gee, Lon
Trying to see how many methods you can use in 2 paragraghs ?

Think about it
The whole reason many of them persevere, is that no one ever gave them an Ann Coulter doll. I know.

A useful compendium
This list should be a breast-pocket item for anyone on the Right who ever addresses political topics in a group of three or more. to be consulted and brandished at every appropriate moment.

Time was, the "honest liberal" was more prevalent than he is today. He might have believed us evil, but he also believed in "giving the Devil his due."

Time was.

Number 9:
Any time a conservative criticizes the policy positions of a black Democrat, play the race card; accuse the critic of being a racist. It even worked for crackhead Marion Barry. (I wonder if they'd try it if O.J. Simpson ran for office.)

It Once Was
"Unlike liberals, conservatives believe most Americans share our values..."

Perhaps this is yet to be determined, maybe as soon as the 2010 elections. I, for one, do not believe the statement is as accurate as it once was, otherwise, we wouldn't have Evil Incarnate in the White House, trying to re-make an office chair into a throne. The election of Nobama tells us clearly that m-o-s-t Americans actually do not share our values. I'd venture that most don't have any values at all, other than valuing their own narrow sense of self-entitlement and their love of celebrity.

The electorate that placed oBUMa in the White House was (and may continue to be) the most ignorant, uninformed, uncritical, naive, stupid, self-entitled mass ever to enter the polling booths of this great Republic.

The dumbing down of America has dire repercussions. One only has to look to the Oval Office for the proof.


Future fantasy projections.
Another fave of the Hollyweird Left is to take their ASSUMPTIONS and project them into the future as FACT.

Look at "Waterworld",aka Fishtar or Kevin's Gate. How about all the confrontations they foresaw that didn't happen like the USSR (oops! now defunct)v. US one in "2010: the Year We Make Contact". or all the fantasies in which we have to hide behind filter glass for protection from UV because air conditioning killed the ozone layer?

-Ray
NRA Life Member
Soli Deo Gloria!!

Directly applicable
These 7 tactics are used daily by the trolls here at TH. Just as an example, hate and greed are the only motivation trolls ever attribute to conservatives. For instance, i, and most conservatives, favor vouchers enabling parents of school children to choose their school. My motivation is that i believe this will produce better education by rewarding and expanding good schools. Just how this can be twisted into hate and greed eludes me, but this is the motivation i am charged with. Just how arrogant does a personhave to be before they consider themselves to be a mindreader? Hawkins is bang on when he says conservatives generally think the average Democrat voter is not evil,(though the unintended results may be evil) but merely deluded. I hesitate to confirm his charge that lefties, in general, are evil. However, i do believe that the constant charges of hate and greed by the trolls here, are projections of their own hate and greed. We are so lucky these moonbats are so few.

Wagoner,et al
Do read "White Guilt" by Shelby Steele. It is a masterpiece about manipulation by (racial) guilt. In my opinion it is at the core of our problems today ... going all the way back to CRA.

Liberals are demonizing bankers out of context, but they know full well that the bankers are of no import ... they are merely symbols of their hated Capitalism.

Gotta go back to basics all the time!

Vis-a-vis anonymous ...
Has anyone noticed that EVERY article in the Wall Street Journal is bylined? And nothing from the AP (Associated Puke) either!

Doug of 5:17
It is fair to say that Mayor Barry benefitted from play of the race card, but the jury also sent a subtle message. Barry was found guilty of charges supported by witnesses not part of the elaborate FBI sting. The message was that blacks were convinced that Barry was targeted and millions spent to "get something on him" because he was black. It does not serve the black community to cling to the notion that a black criminal is innocent of his crimes because LE efforts are motivated by racism. Black on black crime is of huge proportions, yet a no snitch mentality by victims makes LE near impossible. Then they complain that when a white person is murdered, the cops work vigorously to find the killer, but ignore similar crimes against blacks. Go figure.

Forgot one
Or it might be a subset number 4 (Rewriting history) the really big lie: Nazism/Fascism are right-wing...


Lying Liberals
When liberal politicians are caught lying their liberal supporters couldn't care less. Thus, it is useless for conservatives to accuse liberal politicians of lying. It has no effect.

But conservatives expect their politicians to be truthful. Hence liberals continually accuse conservative politicians of lying because they know it has undermines the conservatives support base.

The Third Reason,
There is a third reason that liberals lie. Since one of the "principles" of left-liberal "thinking" is that there is no such thing as objective truth, they have no ethical obligation to tell truth.

To a left-liberal, lying has no moral significance. Thus they lie as easily as they breathe.

As an illustration, I came within a hair's breadth of being kicked off a (non-political), message board when a person whom I was debating made up statistics out of thin air to support her side, admitted to making up said stats when asked for a source, then was outraged that I called her a liar.

She showed absolutely no grasp of the concept that there could be anything wrong with using made up facts. She said outright "Its my opinion so its true."

And the truly pathetic thing is that I was the one in trouble with the equally left-liberal mods for "insulting" her by *calling her a liar* instead of her getting in trouble for *being a liar.*

Tas
Quite right. Its an extension of the fact that liberals place more importance on intentions rather than results or reality. Lies told with good intentions are "good". Unpleasant truth is evil. "He votes right" is the liberal mantra excusing Slick Willy's womanizing, Teddy the swimmer's cowardice, Alcee Hastings bribery conviction and on and on.....

Liberal Playbook
I’m paraphrasing a bit, but I think I have the gist of it. It goes something like this: “When you, as a loyal liberal minion, encounter someone with an opposing view and you can’t think of a rational comment, follow these simple steps. Step 1-Try to confuse your opponent by using big words. If you forgot to write your list of big words on your palm that morning, proceed to the next step. Step 2-Try to ridicule your opponent’s point of view. (Helpful hint: use “ha” as your comment since it is easy to remember. Try stringing several together for greater effect and to make it seem as though you really do have something to say.) If your opponent ignores you, that is so totally unfair. So feel completely justified in using the next step. Step 3-Hurl personal insults at your opponent. Start with his or her intelligence. If that doesn’t work, feel free to move to insulting his looks, his religion, his politics, his family, the geographic region where he lives, etc. Nothing is off-limits if it will help you delude yourself into thinking someone cares what you think.”

Stand by
for liberals to show up and demonstrate the very tactics written in this article.

Lon
Thanks for demonstrating exactly what Mr. Hawkins wrote about.

John LMAO
"...First off, this is a center-right country and liberal beliefs are much more unpopular than conservative ones. If liberals told the truth about what they believe and want to do, the Democratic Party would practically be wiped out in much of the country..."

No longer the center Has shifted. You don't think that the people knew who they were electing when they voted for Obama? Why do you think the Republican Party picked McCain? Heck it may even have worked if you had not denied him Ridge or Leiberman as VP. I think he picked a car wreck like Palin out of spite LOL

Don't forget
the left's use of racial slurs against any conservative minority.

The big reason Hawkins DIDN'T mention
The reason liberals lie is very simple: with relatively few exceptions, they are people who have no particular faith in, and often are deniers of, the God of the Bible.

When you believe that this life is all there is, and that you have nothing good to look forward to beyond it, and that you won't be looking at an eternal judgment, then the here and now becomes king - and anything that promotes immediate advantage is desired. And if one has to lie to get that advantage: well, what of it?

Your relationship with God, and how you perceive God, will be the foundation for how you treat others. If you believe, as some Muslims do, that God calls you to summarily kill those who don't believe as you do, then like the Al Qaeda killers, slaughtering innocents becomes easy. But if you don't believe in God at all, or are indifferent to Him, then anything that you think you can get away with goes.

On the other hand, if you believe you're answerable to a beneficent God who has laid down very clear "rules of engagement", as it were, for how you treat others and will call you to account for your obedience to that word for which there will be consequences for disobedience which won't all wait until the day you stand before Him on the day of judgment, then you have a real disincentive to lying. And the Bible makes it as clear as you could want how seriously God treats lying: one of the Ten Commandments deals specifically with bearing false witness, and in Rev. 21:8, among those who God warns are doomed to eternal condemnation are - liars.

John, why give your talkers' bible away?
"...7) The Straw Man: If you can't find a sin conservatives have committed to attack, then invent one. This is one of the most used arrows in the quiver of liberals who claim the Right wants to create a theocracy, kick senior citizens off of Social Security, or reward the rich at the expense of the middle class. "

See at some level on the right you can indeed find a group advocating this action or you can step back and see the direction of the actions of the right. Two simple facts: one, you actually did take actions that rewarded the rich at the expense of the middle class, not in actual dollars but as a percentage of the pie; two, you did not want to "kick senior citizens off of Social Security"; you wanted to kick all of tomorrows' senior off of social security - classic divide and conquer tactics of conservatism. If you do not want a theocracy then why do you not speak out against RC Bishops dictating how members of Congress MUST vote? This is now different than Iran.

Your list is a good list of limbawl, hannaughty, et. al. daily show tactics. But you are whining and I do love seeing that so thank you

Liberals Don't
Create legislation with one name when the intent is to do something different. Liberals don't focus on a phoney flea to promote policies that are designed to help the dog. Thats why every tax break is to help small businesses or the family farm when it is really designed to help the mega wealthy or CEO's or trust fund babies.

Liberals don't use fear to win elections. That is why everytime the Bush administration was in trouble they upped the color codes.

Liberals don't call their fellow citizens unamerican. They don't talk about real Americans and unreal americans. Liberals don't boycott individuals who express criticism.

Liberals don't Dixie Chick.

The Democratic Party is inclusive. The Republican Party is almost totally white and very southern and slowly becoming irrelevant.

Liberals don't torture.



Hal...
I live in Md. I'd like to invite you to meet for a cup of coffee and discuss Sarah Palin , man to man. I'm interested to learn how mouthy you are in person. Would you like yours black, or with cream and sugar.

Don_cos
The last administration was probably the most secretive in our history. While having terrible policies they were the absolutely the best when it came to slogans. That administration had more PR guys per square inch than most corporations.

But in office they were incompetent and for a good reason. People who don't believe in government don't get very good at leading it. All those people getting training in those conservative think tanks never learned how to run any thing. That is why billions were wasted on Reconstruction projects in Iraq.

Liberals are competent. Conservatives have their ideology and the country has chosen.

UsaBruce
"Date: Mar 31, 2009 - 8:22 AM EST
Hal...
I live in Md. I'd like to invite you to meet for a cup of coffee and discuss Sarah Palin , man to man. I'm interested to learn how mouthy you are in person. Would you like yours black, or with cream and sugar."

Hmm may be doable next month and I do like my coffee hot and black. I am at Walter Reed again in late April. I am told I am very much as mouthy in person

Pistol
Good Vs. evil is the language of conservatives. Good Americans. Conservatives see the world as black and white. Their ideology blinds them to possibilities and their limus tests limit their ability to accomplish anything in office.

The solution to every problem is not a talk cut for rich folks. When the facts don't jive with ideology they ignore the facts. Their movement is based on the need to fear or hate someone. Illegals, Eurpean style policies.

Oh no we can't do that- It would be socialism. No we can't do that more government. No not that, it would require a tax increase.

Conservatives with their tiny tool boxes can't do anything when in office unless they violate their own ideology. Reagan did and now his is the folk hero. GWB did not and he left office with zero credibilty.


Liberal Tactics
8) Name calling - Using trigger words like 'racist' and 'Hitler' that create so much noise, the original argument is drowned out

9) Attempt equivocating examples - the "Your guy did it too" argument, no matter that they aren't relevant or that they're hopelessly out of date. This is an attempt to achieve moral equality, or at least, negate conservative morality.

10) Never admit they're wrong on anything, that way they can maintain their self-deceptions.

I see these things over and over again with liberals, it's a bit predictable, and boring.

Once again;
JMO51, Hal Dumbohue and Lon illustrate the points of the author! It's gotten to be so predictable that one could almost set their watches by it.

I will stand by previous posts; it's obvious that, in true liberal fashion, all three of you are defrauding your employers of a paycheck. While you post numerous times, on every article on TH, one or more of you every day, your collective money for nothing liberal mantra is in full view for all to see.

UsaBruce, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for Hal. As you suggest, Hal, nor either of the other two dimwits, would have the guts to show up and have an actual debate. Liberals love the net because they can be the anonymous cowards that they are.

Hal Donahue says:
****See at some level on the right you can indeed find a group advocating this action or you can step back and see the direction of the actions of the right. Two simple facts: one, you actually did take actions that rewarded the rich at the expense of the middle class, not in actual dollars but as a percentage of the pie; two, you did not want to "kick senior citizens off of Social Security"; you wanted to kick all of tomorrows' senior off of social security - classic divide and conquer tactics of conservatism. If you do not want a theocracy then why do you not speak out against RC Bishops dictating how members of Congress MUST vote? This is now different than Iran.****

LMAO (permission not needed from the barstoolwarmer)

This is a perfect example of another tactic used by liberals, notably by Al Gore. When asked a question, instead of answering that question, engage in a long-winded statement that has nothing to do with the issue at hand. Then when you're finished, listeners will hopefully have forgotten what the original issue was. Great example, Hal.

JMO51 - are you serious?
Unfortunately, yes you are, and once again demonstrate why it is impossible to debate a liberal. Any discussion must have as a starting point, basic truth, facts or mutually accepted principals. Your list is completely full of half-truths, innuendo and straw men. You are exactly what Hawkins is talking about.

Especially the last - "liberals don't torture." Yes they do. They torture the rest of us daily with their inanity and buffoonery.

JMO needs to head on over to Huffpo or Kos where their poisonous threads are better suited to his/her mental development, which is close to a 4th graders, I'd guess.

Or could stay here and illustrate the absurdity of dhimmicrats thinking for the uninitiated.

Doing a heck of a job....

JM051 says:
****Liberals Don't
Create legislation with one name when the intent is to do something different.****

Right. That's why liberals came up with the Freedom Of Choice Act, which does exactly the opposite by taking away a vote in which everyone gets to have a voice and replace it with coercive tactics which has people agreeing to sign a card out of fear.

Tell me another one, JMO51.

Whatta maroon!


One More Method
Liberal techniques of lying only work because of conservative cowardice, weakness and stupidity.

Conservative icons never wise up. They always fall for the old tricks, even though they've seen them many times before, for many years. Rightists have no imagination. They let their opponents control the agenda and they never fight back.

When attacked or slandered, rightists bow out gracefully, not wanting to offend, drop to their knees and kiss the feet of Al Sharpton. Words are the most powerful weapon to use against conservatives. They will surrender, unconditionally, rather than risk offending their enemies.

Rightists wrongfully assume the public is as smart as they are. So when they are confronted with illogical leftist arguments, rightists keep their mouths shut, smile broadly, then go to the club for gin and a game of squash, thinking the American electorate must know the fallacy of leftist arguments.

Conservatives wear bow ties, part their hair neatly on the right like their mommies did for them until they were 21, and mutter to themselves about the merits of fiscal or monetary policies, thinking that Americans will be impressed.

Rightists allow themselves to be suckered into debating complicated facts. They come to TV entertainment shows armed with volumes of data, statistics, numbers and surveys thinking that an audience with a 5 word retention span will suffer their dialogues.

Rightists are no challenge to the left who wisely appeal to the mob's raw emotions and will therefor always win.

Finally, conservative icons revealed their cowardice and bankrupt ideas after November when most deserted to the enemy and the rest shut their mouths, fearing they would not be invited to D.C. cocktail parties. Even now with the country facing peril, they dare not speak out to strongly because they may be accused of racism.

All Obama has to do to silence the right is shout, "BOO!"

JMO51 says
****Liberals don't use fear to win elections.****

Right. Of course they didn't accuse people of racism for not supporting Obama in order to generate the fear of being accused a racist. The liberals would never do such a thing.

Oh, wait, they did.

LMAO

Whatta maroon!

Hal...
Are you a veteran, Hal ?

HAL Donahue
John is talking about conservatives not Republicans. Therefore using John McCain is an erroneous argument. He is not a conservative.

"No longer the center Has shifted. You don't think that the people knew who they were electing when they voted for Obama?" = #5 Everybody knows retort, it is because we say it is.

"Why do you think the Republican Party picked McCain? Heck it may even have worked if you had not denied him Ridge or Leiberman as VP. I think he picked a car wreck like Palin out of spite" = #1 Questioning McCain's motivations.

Yep, sir you are a true liberal. LMAO!!

JMO51 says:
****Liberals don't boycott individuals who express criticism.****

Hmmm....That's true, as long as the criticism is of conservatives. Dare to criticize a liberal, and there will be one almighty hissy fit, and they will do whatever they can to shut down that voice.

Can anyone say Fairness Doctrine?

LMAO

Whatta maroon!

JMO51
****Liberals don't Dixie Chick.****

Um, okay. Not really sure what that means.

JMO51, thanks for not Dixie Chicking.

LMAO

Whatta maroon!

Excuse the logic, please
The left's hammering of Bush for going into Iraq to steal the oil is just another example of the constant lies being fed to the American public. AND THEY DON'T EVEN MAKE SENSE!!!

why would he do that when he was "all about channeling money to his American oil buddies"?

JD's Handsome Son
Conservative woman speaking out on being called a racist.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,511470,00.html

Compare with a liberal woman:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,455804,00.html

JMO51 says:
****The Republican Party is almost totally white and very southern and slowly becoming irrelevant.****

Hmmm....Can we say:

Michael Steele?

Frances Rice?

Martin Luther King, Jr.?

Condoleeza Rice?

Thomas Sowell?

Walter Williams?

JMO51, check out this site: http://www.nbra.info/ (The National Black Republicans Association)

LMAO

Whatta maroon!

JMO51 says:
****Liberals don't torture.****

Says you. Your posts are adequate proof that's a lie.

LMAO

Whatta maroon!

How blind can you be?
Liberals don't create legislation with one name when the intent is to do something different? The "Employee Free Choice Act" regarding voting to join a union is not about free choice. It will take the right of secret ballot away and force voting by show of hands allowing for intimidation by the unions on employees. There is no FREE CHOICE about this legislation. The Fairness Doctrine is another one. It sounds wonderful on the surface, but how it is applied is to force equal liberal time on conservative radio, but will not force conservative time on liberal TV.
Liberals don't use fear to win elections? They tell Americans that conservatives will take their social security away, that they will institute the draft, and that they will give money to the rich at the expense of the poor and middle class. (See tactic #7)
Liberals don't call their opponents unAmerican? Well maybe they don't use those words, but they do call them racists, facist, war monger or other epithets that are all unamerican.
Liberals don't boycott individuals who express critism? If you make any negative remark about gay rights, that person or institution is picketed and boycotted in an almost terrorist like fashion. If you don't jump right in line with the "go green" and reduce your carbon footprint movement, you company is picketed, your name is smeared, and your property is at risk of fire bombing.
The Democrat party is inclusive? Please! If you are not a tree hugging, abortion loving, global warming alarmist, more government is the answer, rich are evil (except the rich liberals like George Soros and most of the Congressional Democrats) and don't believe evangelicals are loons, then you are not welcome.
Liberals don't torture? Tell that to the millions of fetuses that are terminated every day. Besides that, I am tortured every day having to listen to your cr@p.

Continued
Y'all need to read a book by Daniel J. Flynn called "Intellectual Morons: How Ideology Makes Smart People Fall for Stupid Ideas".

Leftist ideology that has not worked ever and will never work ever no matter who is in charge still has to be trotted out by the left because it just has to be the right thing. WRONG.

DC Skeptic
Boring is the word. I am cursed with a high reading rate, and as i scroll along, sometimes i find myself reading bits and pieces of troll posts. Every once in a while i note some indication of open mind or positive intent. RealBlackMan, Nellie, rarely anyone else. But they don't come here with a positive agenda to explore ideas. So why engage whatever obscure mental quirk they are dealing with. I have several far left friends i enjoy discussion with. They present the view from the left far more powerfully than any troll i've seen here. What frustrates me is how often they vote for people who directly work against government actions they want. Most DC blacks want vouchers, for instance. Yet they vote near 100 per cent for politicians who deny vouchers. It makes no sense to me.

skywalker81
Amen, and great examples in your post.

JMO51 says:
****Conservative politicians mention the bible a lot.****

So do liberal politicians, most notably Obama.

LMAO

Man, you're batting a thousand today.

Whatta rube!

Curtal Friar
God job. Lad. You win the Pistol's coveted First Laugh of the Day award. You join august company, including Anne, Ratas y Ratones, Wrat Wrangler, BrianR and other witty posters. Guys like you make my day. :-D

Pistol 9:16 AM EST
I covered this phenomenon the other day. But to put the bottomline up front...Irrational thought becomes the norm when thought processes and decisions are emotionalized and sensitized. Liberals fall victim to this, lose logic and reasoning to the point they become so blind that they will not see.

Bruce
"Date: Mar 31, 2009 - 8:47 AM EST
Once again;
JMO51, Hal Dumbohue and Lon illustrate the points of the author! It's gotten to be so predictable that one could almost set their watches by it.

I will stand by previous posts; it's obvious that, in true liberal fashion, all three of you are defrauding your employers of a paycheck..."

Golly gee I am my own employer and I am sitting here writing a little speech



UsaBruce
"Date: Mar 31, 2009 - 8:57 AM EST
Hal...
Are you a veteran, Hal ?"

yes

Rules for Liberals
- If it's worth fighting for, it's worth fighting dirty for.

- Don't lie, cheat or steal...unnecessarily.

- There is always one more son of a gun than you counted on.

- An honest answer can get you into a lot of trouble.

- The facts, although interesting, are irrelevant.

- Chicken Little only has to be right once.

- "NO" is only an interim response.

- You can't kill a bad idea.

- If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that you ever tried.

- The truth is a variable.

- A porcupine with his quills down in just another fat rodent.

- You can agree with any concept or notional future option, in principle, but fight implementation every step of the way.

- A promise is not a guarantee.

- If you can't counter the argument, leave the meeting.

JMO51 says:
****Claim to be good christians and then go off and diddle their mistresses or arrange dates on bathrooms. Some of the greatest and most popular conservatives like Rush have serial marrages. They rail against trail lawyers and the ACLU but are the first to sue and to lawyer up. (Bork suing the Yale Club, and Rush using every legal move he could think of to avoid being prosecuted for doctor shopping.****

This is a general trend among politicians and celebrities, regardless of their political orientation.

By the way, JMO51, just what exactly is a "trail lawyer"? Is this an attorney who defends woodland critters?

LMAO

Whatta maroon!


The Doofass scribbles
UsaBruce
"Date: Mar 31, 2009 - 8:57 AM EST
Hal...
Are you a veteran, Hal ?"

yes

Yes the Doofass is a veteran at ignorance, precarication, giving disrespect to other real veterans, making incredibly stupid histoical assertions, citing himself on HuffingupPuke as expert, and in being incapable of reading for meaning, but not much of a true military veteran.

Eric
Perfect list!

Pistol
Thank you. Glad to be of service.

:)

Tax refom for everyone
We the people pay all taxes, and we are the only ultimate source of all tax revenue. Regardless where government initially collects it, all tax money ultimately comes from us, the people.
Since we the people are the one and only source of all tax revenue:
There should be only one tax to collect all tax revenue.
It should be a single, simple, fair, direct, graduated, individual, full-income tax levied on living persons for each level of government: One Tax and Done.
You cannot convince a person or corporation to start a new business or expand an existing business, increase jobs, and hire new employees, when you tax away the capitol he is using to operate his PRESENT business
The best thing that government can do to help the country, the people, and even government, is to repeal all of the many hundreds, or thousands of existing taxes, fees, and charges. These taxes are the federal deficit. These taxes are the high price of everything. These tax eliminations are spending cuts. Every tax that is eliminated is a tax that we the people no longer have to pay. These taxes are the difference between the price we pay for health care and everything else, and the price we would pay if these taxes were repealed. Eliminating these taxes will remove them from the price paid for everything by everyone.
One Tax and Done will provide many benefits to all, even government:
One Tax and Done will reduce the price paid for everything by one-third.

ExRCSD Deputy
"Date: Mar 31, 2009 - 9:36 AM EST...UsaBruce
"Date: Mar 31, 2009 - 8:57 AM EST
Hal...
Are you a veteran, Hal ?"

yes

Yes the Doofass is a veteran at ignorance, precarication, giving disrespect to other real veterans, making incredibly stupid histoical assertions, citing himself on HuffingupPuke as expert, and in being incapable of reading for meaning, but not much of a true military veteran."

LMAO this is a classic example of what I said about John's column. Here is this character doing exactly what he accuses liberals of doing. Typical and a mishmash of lies, personal attacks but no content

The Doofass scribbles:
LMAO this is a classic example of what I said about John's column. Here is this character doing exactly what he accuses liberals of doing. Typical and a mishmash of lies, personal attacks but no content


Actually, Doofass, I am doing to you what you have done Conservatives for the last two years.
Also, where have I lied?
BTW, forgot to add you are a veteran anti-Southern bigot.

The Doofass scribbles:
Golly gee I am my own employer and I am sitting here writing a little speech

You once stated that you were on the Lackawanna County payroll as an advisor to local veterans. What happened? Did the county finally fire you for being an incompetent boob?

Liberals Define Evil
Liberals support the abortion of human beings and the salvation of a supposedly dwindling population of polar bears. If that's not evil what is?

The problem of liberals is that they recognize no higher power than themselves. We've been down that path for many centuries...Hitler, Stalin, Chairman Mao...perhaps the Anointed One, Barack Obama.

Liberals have no North Star to steer by. The evil that men do starts with people who have this fuzzy notion they want to help people. Good example of this psychosis are the environmentalists who managed to kill millions when they helped to ban DDT. Modern day liberals seem to want to help every creature and plant on earth--except human beings. They hate the notion of over population and thus, in essence, hate themselves.

Isn't that evil? Oh, sorry, there is no such thing as "evil" in the liberal playbook. It's either good choices or bad choices.


Racist Charge
During the campaign last fall a man I work with who is very liberal and a diehard Obama supporter accused me of being racist because I didn't support Obama. I patiently explained to him that I opposed the Illinois senator based on his political philosophy regardless of his race.

At about the same time, Obama's white grandmother passed away. My co-worker practically dared me to say something about Obama's mixed parentage. I told him that the senator had my sympathies on the death of his grandmother and her color made no difference to me.

Of course since I was a conservative Republican he knew beyond any reasonable doubt that I must automatically be a racist and against mixed race marriage. But I was neither of these things. But to him I was because of my political leanings.

I think I understand why so many people voted for Obama. You get so tired of having to defend yourself all the time that some voters just threw up their hands and voted for Obama just to avoid the racist tag.

I know it's difficult folks but if we stop fighting we lose and we can kiss this great country goodbye. Pray hard for the future of the USA. I am not very optimistic at present.

ExRCSD Deputy
"Date: Mar 31, 2009 - 10:01 AM EST...Golly gee I am my own employer and I am sitting here writing a little speech

You once stated that you were on the Lackawanna County payroll as an advisor to local veterans. What happened? Did the county finally fire you for being an incompetent boob?"

LOL nice try I was Director of Veterans Affairs temporarily to turn the office around. I did that well and left to be Chair of the Midwest Region of Veterans for Obama last September. The office is now a major county success story.

THE PROBLEM IS ...

.....THE LIES WORK ...

.....The Liberals know that they can never overestimate the IQ of the mob ...the mob believes the lies because the Liberals tell them what they want to hear .....COLOSSUS

Good article but...
...I was struck right off by this line: "conservatives are perpetually frustrated by the fact that the American people don't seem to understand what we really believe"

Just to play devil's advocate for a moment, what ARE people supposed to believe when concervatives speak of fiscal responsibility and then spend like maniacs when they control Congress with a Republican POTUS who executes not one single veto on the pork binge?
And then supports an obscene bailout and initiated a further bailout of Motown instead of letting market forces work, file bankruptcy and kill outrageous and uncompetitive UAW labor contracts.
True, Dems in 60 days have outspent Republicans as they build the new socialist State, but Conservatives get some blame as well for not adhering to principals.

But I do have to have to laugh at the thought of that far Left loon..."Sheehan's back and Barack's got her!" What a movie!

Nope Doofass,
you said that you were on the payroll as a veterans advisor. You have lied so many times, you have forgotten what they were.

ExRCSD-CurtalFriar-Pistol-ADLoggy-Others
LMAO! Notice how many of the tactics on the list are employed by Hal Drunkahue and other Anglophobic Liberals. These Drug Addled, Self Hating, Leftover Hippies are the wind in Obama’s Sail Ears. They remind me of processionary caterpillars. Processionary caterpillars walk in a line where ALL OF THEM but the leader have their head stuck up the backside of the on in front of them. The thing is if you take the leader’s head and shove it up the rear of the last caterpillar, they will walk in a circle until they die of starvation. I GIVE YOU THE OBAMATARDS!

ADLoggy. exRCSD Deputy
ADL
You are right. Something blinds them, so they say one thing, say they support something, and then vote in exactly the way that will guarantee they don't get what they want. Drives me nuts. My wife is a teacher, complains all the time about the stupid DPt of ED, but then votes to continue it. I am too wise to point out this inconsistency, since i value my mariage.
ExRCSD
I've noticed that all the trolls that post here have very successful careers, usually as businessmen employing multiple emplyees, and usually have quite successful military careers. Somehow my experience with far left Warfighters and small businessmen has been neglected. I've never met a one in person. There seems to be some disconnect here, but damifikin figure it out.

baseballdoc
"Date: Mar 31, 2009 - 10:28 AM EST
THE PROBLEM IS ...

.....THE LIES WORK ...

.....The Liberals know that they can never overestimate the IQ of the mob ...the mob believes the lies because the Liberals tell them what they want to hear .....COLOSSUS"

And is this how you explain the eight years of the failed bush regime and the six years of conservative congress?

Georgetwin
Methinks I've seen these processionary caterpillars many times.

Hal Donahue

I'm going to give the folks an example of this article, namely you. And the funny thing is there's not a thing you can do about it except don't answer. Here goes.

Two direct and simple questions:

1. How is it possible to spemd a country's budget out of deficit?

2. How is it possible to borrow a country out of debt?

Happy Hal is about to illustrate, exactly, one or more of John Hawkins points.

No need to lie about conservatives
We just need to tell the truth.

When the head of your movement is such an oaf, it is difficult to take you seriously. Having read on these pages that Bush is a RINO or "he's not what we thought he was", or "he's not a real conservative", I have to ask where were you people for the last 8 years?

No matter what the criticism, it was Bush is our guy, you're a commie, you're unamerican, you don't support the troops, your unpatriotic. There was absolutely no assessment of his actions and now you think the public will take you seriously?

So now it is lies we tell about you. We don't have to lie about you. Your words and actions speak for themselves.

a
If you think liberal enviro-whackos would allow the kind of technological development you speak of, you are nuts. They want everybody eating root and bark that they gather from the forest and sitting around in clothing made from hemp.

Why don't you just go away, you have no place here and you will convince no one here that you even like this country-idiot!!

ExRCSD Deputy
"Date: Mar 31, 2009 - 10:32 AM EST
Nope Doofass,
you said that you were on the payroll as a veterans advisor. You have lied so many times, you have forgotten what they were."

LOL it is public record check it out for goodness sake.

B.H Liberal
At least you understand what you are.
You said it yourself: You are commies, unamerican, unpatriotic, and don't support the troops.
Good descrption of yourself!

Bleeding Heart Liberal
BHL asks, "I have to ask where were you people for the last 8 years?"

I was here and on the Usenet screaming loud and long about Bush's idiotic fiscal policies as was thousands of others.


Duckhunter

Now you've done it. You've acknowledged a's presence. Now he'll be hanging around the adult table for the rest of the day.

Bob_C:
Wonder what the Doofass thinks of Daniel Hannan?

Nope Doofass:
You prove it, as you have demanded of us, when we make a claim about our past.

a
"Date: Mar 31, 2009 - 10:35 AM EST...The roles of both ideologies is easy to explain. We are a progressive country. Always have been and always will be. Liberals, in our wide-eyed craziness are the train conductors who want to enact all of the changes now, while conservatives are the brakemen who try to slow the train down before it crashes.

The last 8 years, the train not only stopped, but started to roll backwards. Now it's chugging double-time to where it was supposed to be. Sprinke in a little global financial crisis and you've got one of those mythical magnetic levi trains (yes Gov Jindal, they're real) capable of blowing your hair clean off your head. Now if we can just navigate that turn up ahead at 200mph...

And that's change you can believe in."

Can I use your analogy? It is perfect

ExRCSD Deputy

Hal is too uninformed to know who Daniel Hannan is or where he comes from.

Hal...
Well, God Bless you, and thanks. I'd like to ask your opinion of a resolution. I would appreciate an honest straightforward opinion minus any belittling, or insults. This resolution concerns me and I would genuinely like your sides input. HJ Res.5, introduced by Rep. Jose Serrano D.N.Y., on 2-9-09. It calls for repeal of 22nd Amendment, the limitation of Presidential terms. You can research it prior to answering at opencongress.org. I have to leave for a business appointment and will not be back on line for some hours. I look forward to your feedback, thanks, Hal.

lets see
iraq wasn't about oil huh? who used to run halliburton? who used to run bechtel? who was present at cheney's secret energy task force in 2001? oh wait a minute we don't know that one because cheney refused a foi request citing " national security issues". don't know what national security issues it will threaten just knowing who was present 8 years later. sounds more like legacy savings issues to me.

UsaBruce

Bruce, if you know Hal at all, you can be sure of his answer.

Four years ago he would have been against the resolution.

Now that his man is in office, he's for the resolution.

Four Imbedded Lies of Secularist Libs
LIE #1: America was founded as a "secular" nation by deists and secularists. (history re-writen)
LIE #2: The ACLU definition of the "Separation of Church and State" (formulated by Justice Hugo Black in 1947.)
LIE #3: Macro Evolution is a scientific FACT. (despite 32 "time clocks" that prove otherwise)
LIE #4: The Democratic Party has always defended Black Americans. (David Barton documents just the opposite.)
For well-documented proof REFUTING these LIES, go to: totaltruth.org - a FREE on-line book that offers a BIG PICTURE solution to our "truth crisis." E-mail rebuttles welcome!

Who do you know?
>If you think liberal enviro-whackos would allow the kind of technological development you speak of, you are nuts. They want everybody eating root and bark that they gather from the forest and sitting around in clothing made from hemp.<

Where do idiotic characterizations(OK , lies) like this fit on the list?

In all fairness,
Gungy has a point.

Bob_C
"Date: Mar 31, 2009 - 10:48 AM EST
Hal Donahue

I'm going to give the folks an example of this article, namely you. And the funny thing is there's not a thing you can do about it except don't answer. Here goes.

Two direct and simple questions:

1. How is it possible to spemd a country's budget out of deficit?..."

We did it after WWII. A major part of that was the WWII GI Bill. The error that you make is that you think all spending is equal. It is not. When the spending is INVESTMENT then this is what has made America great and leads to reducing debt or income over time.

"2. How is it possible to borrow a country out of debt?"

When the borrowing is for investment. The Erie Canal is a classic example of this as is the GI bill above.

Bob_C
Also ask the Bishop of Budweiser WHY Deficit Spending was MORONIC on January 19th, but BRILLIANT on January 21st?

Hal
A person is in debt to where they are at the point where they can no longer pay their debtors....Should this person borrow and spend more?

Bob_C
Hal will now google Mr. Hannan's name and try and prove you wrong. I see it coming.

UsaBruce
"Date: Mar 31, 2009 - 11:08 AM EST
Hal...
Well, God Bless you, and thanks. I'd like to ask your opinion of a resolution. I would appreciate an honest straightforward opinion minus any belittling, or insults. This resolution concerns me and I would genuinely like your sides input....I have to leave for a business appointment and will not be back on line for some hours. I look forward to your feedback, thanks, Hal."

Your welcome and thanks for the thanks. As a general rule, I oppose term limits of any kind. Voters are the term limiters and we should not limit their freedom. BUT that said I tend to think I make an exception for the 22nd amendment especially given the continuing growth of an imperial presidency. There is too much power concentrated in the Executive branch. I do think that discussion of that is OK but I oppose it.

Hal The Clueless
"We did it after WWII. A major part of that was the WWII GI Bill. The error that you make is that you think all spending is equal. It is not. When the spending is INVESTMENT then this is what has made America great and leads to reducing debt or income over time."

Then can you explain to me why the federal deficit on average has been steadily and inexorable RISING since WW2?

"When the borrowing is for investment. The Erie Canal is a classic example of this as is the GI bill above."

Then can you explain to me why the federal debt has been rising at a frightening rate in the last thirty years?

You have a logical disconnect that is astounding. You claim that spending is "investment" that will eventually pay down the deficit, yet the deficit is constantly rising.

You claim that borrowing is "investment that will eventually cancel the federal debt, yet the federal debt is rising at a near verical bell curve.

How has the GI Bill helped pay dwn the Federal Debt since the federal debt is, taking into account the unfunded mandates, 226,500 times greater than it was in 1947?

http://130.94.230.21/debtclock.html

ADLoggy

Oh, absolutely correct. Just the lag time tells you that he's on Google trying to find out who he is.

01231684684
This pabulum of sophomoric polemic may pass as a bona fide argument in the realm of young Republican high schoolers but it does not stand a chance when it enters the authenticate political climate. What John has indulged us all is the fact that every one of these poorly constructed "motives" has been copycatted from the conservative playbook and beaten ad nauseam on the airwaves of radical Reich wing radio and media.


Somebody put a leash on this puppy.

Bob_C
"Hal Donahue Location: PA
Reply # 95
Date: Mar 31, 2009 - 11:18 AM EST
Bob_C
"Date: Mar 31, 2009 - 10:48 AM EST"

Erie Canal was a state funded program but a good and early example

Ad Hominem #1
The ad hominem is the #1 tool of the liberal fascist. Most of them are to stupid to know about these more subtle ways of manipulating arguments, so they reflexively resort to personal attacks. And most of their audience is too stupid to recognize a non-argument when they hear one, so they nod their heads. "Duhhh, yeah, he racist".

Don't forget!
...about victim hood. We all remember throughout the Iraq war and Bush's tenure, the Left claimed they were being "silenced". That there was a mysterious unseen oppressive hand keeping them from "speaking out" (another lefty favorite).

Reality was entirely different. I couldn't get away from the chants, drum circles, fist pounding and other symptoms of acquired BDS on display. There was more dissent on any given media than any supporter of Bush's policies were ever given. But yet, they beat the drum so often they once again painted themselves as the little guy and victim, contrary to the most casual observer that it is not the case.

Also, ask anyone from the left to quote a legitimate representative of the right calling them "unpatriotic". Another call to victims for which there is no real source.

I don't blame them for trying, they are liberals after all. Blame does rests with the people who fall for it however.

Somebody
Knows how to use a thesaurus

Lies?
No way. This is a BS article.

Van
Now that you have come to the conclusion that this is a bs article...Please elaborate on the BS.

Here's another tactic.
Respond to and attack a point of view that was never stated by the person you are supposedly responding to..

i.e.


JMO51 Reply # 29
Date: Mar 31, 2009 - 8:36 AM EST

Hujmin the Obamabot
Haha!

Hujmin's post proves the point: he uses Hawkins' points 1, 2 and 5.

If I were characterizing the methods of hujmin's post in debating terms:

- ad hominem attack
- using sarcasm instead of fact

Most of the left-wing drivel you see is like this.


Hal Donahue

The Erie canal was ideed a remarkable and successful feat which was largely NY state funded. However it took only a matter of twenty years before the PRIVATE railroads started giving the canal severe competition and a mere forty years before PRIVATE railroads made it all but obsolete.


Hal
I am still waiting for a reply for my post #97

CLPKY-Al-DCos-Bob_C-ADLoggy-Others
GOD ALMIGHTY these Liberals are STUPID! ALL OF THEM are using 1 or more of the tactics described in Hawkins’ Article. This proves that either:

A. Liberal School Teachers turn out Liberal Morons.
B. Hawkins article is 100% correct.
C. The Meds Wagon has not made its rounds yet.

GT
A and B

Bob_C
Last summer when gas prices cracked $4.00 a gallon, I heard LOTS of Liberals saying, “We should build railroads! THAT would show BIG OIL that we DON’T NEED THEM!” The thing is that it hasn’t been 20 years since track was pulled up and the land on the right of way(s) was sold. HOW did these Libtards plan to fund the buying of land and REBUILDING the infrastructure needed to operate a railroad? Liberals, spending YOUR money for THEIR benefit.

Bob_C
"Date: Mar 31, 2009 - 11:35 AM EST
Hal The Clueless
"We did it after WWII. A major part of that was the WWII GI Bill. The error that you make is that you think all spending is equal. It is not. When the spending is INVESTMENT then this is what has made America great and leads to reducing debt or income over time."

Then can you explain to me why the federal deficit on average has been steadily and inexorable RISING since WW2?"

The key figure is debt as a percentage of GDP and that has not ALWAYS been steadily and inexorably rising.

"When the borrowing is for investment. The Erie Canal is a classic example of this as is the GI bill above."

Then can you explain to me why the federal debt has been rising at a frightening rate in the last thirty years?"]

The spending has NOT been for investment. This is my point. We have been spending money to operate not to invest. I have said many times on here that the essence of the current conservatism was to use up all the investments in physical and human capital made by earlier administrations without replacing or maintaining what we had.

"...You claim that borrowing is "investment that will eventually cancel the federal debt, yet the federal debt is rising at a near verical bell curve."

Since 1980 when reaganism/hooverism began to fully flower

"...How has the GI Bill helped pay down the Federal Debt since the federal debt is, taking into account the unfunded mandates, 226,500 times greater than it was in 1947?"

Look at this graph of debt to GDP ratios
http://zfacts.com/p/318.html

CharlesLPKY,
What the Doofass doesn't say is that of all the internal improvements proposed by Henry clay's American system none of them were ever completed. A lot of tariff money was raised for them, but never spent. Most of that money came from the South, which was never included in the plans for those improvements.

Georgetwin
You should have included: D. Al of the above.

LMAO

Charles LPKY
"Date: Mar 31, 2009 - 11:30 AM EST
Hal
A person is in debt to where they are at the point where they can no longer pay their debtors....Should this person borrow and spend more?"

Depends on for what purpose doesn't it. Like you start a new job in a month at a salary where you can pay; this would be legitimate. Or go deep into debt to service existing debt while you finish up medical school.

Bob_C
"Date: Mar 31, 2009 - 12:03 PM EST
Hal Donahue

The Erie canal was ideed a remarkable and successful feat which was largely NY state funded. However it took only a matter of twenty years before the PRIVATE railroads started giving the canal severe competition and a mere forty years before PRIVATE railroads made it all but obsolete."

This was a good thing not a bad one. The canal paid for itself and firmly established NYC as THE shipping Port on the east coast. Railroad investment followed the canals and established shipping patterns all this was good and almost certainly played a key role in the destruction of the underdeveloped Confedercy

Liberal "Dixie Chicking" on display:
Dennis Miller, now the object of scorn among ALL his former liberal friends.

Angie Harmon, SOON to join Dennis Miller.

The late lamented Ron Silver, when he went on a set or stage he had to hear "Ron, Ron the Neocon" from the pillars of tolerance and diversity who call themselves liberals.

WHEN has Drew Carey worked outside his own shows since he came out as a right-leaning libertarian?

If not for "Friday Night Lights" Janine Turner would be a leper in Hollywood.

Same for the shabby treatment heaped on Patricia Heaton and Kelsey Grammer.

JMO51, you make me sick to live in NY City. A troll like you is merely a lying sack of flatulence.

-Ray
NRA Life Member
Soli Deo Gloria!!

Liberals hate the Individual Citizen

"Comrades! We must abolish the cult of the individual decisively, once and for all." -- Soviet Premier Nikita S. Khrushchev, addressing the 20th Congress of the Soviet Communist Party, 2-25-56

"The unity of a nation's spirit and will are worth far more than the freedom of the spirit and will of an individual; and that the higher interests involved in the life of the whole must here set the limits and lay down the duties of the interests of the individual." -- Adolph Hitler

"We need to stop worrying about the rights of the individual and start worrying about what is best for society." -- Hillary Clinton

"...we understand only the individual's capacity to make sacrifices for the community, for his fellow men." -- Adolf Hitler, 10-7-33

"We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good." -- Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton, June 28, 2004.

"To be a socialist is to submit the I to the thou; socialism is sacrificing the individual to the whole." -- Joseph Goebbels, Minister of Propaganda, National Socialist German Workers' ("Nazi") Party

"...true patriotism also means a willingness to sacrifice for our common good..."
Barack Obama July 6, 2008


ExRCSD Deputy
"Date: Mar 31, 2009 - 12:17 PM EST
CharlesLPKY,
What the ... doesn't say is that of all the internal improvements proposed by Henry clay's American system none of them were ever completed. A lot of tariff money was raised for them, but never spent. Most of that money came from the South, which was never included in the plans for those improvements."

What you neglect to say is that the South resisted improvements for two reasons. One they did not want free states developing into economic power houses able to compete with the far richer south. Two, they did not want development which would make it easier for slaves to escape. They tried to freeze the status quo

Don't forget "painful struggle"
#8 is an Obama favorite, and probably comes from Clinton: Claim that some decision you make was an intensely difficult, soul-wracking process, one which ultimately ended like every other painful, soul-wracking decision a Democrat ever does -- the lefty arguments wins out!

I can only conclude that they think a decision discussed like this can't be countered or rebutted, because it was so difficult. How come every excruciating decision like this comes out on the Lefty side of things? Can't just one time a soul-wracking decision come out on the Conservative side?

Project much, Hawk?
This is the Republican playbook, covered with metric tons of straw.

Hal
Does not depend on anything, just simple yes or no...

The bottom line is when my house hold has bills, we pay them, we do not borrow money with interest to pay our bills. Credit got the US into the economic crisis we are facing, Credit will not get us out.

In my house hold we cut spending to get out of debt, we only owe on our house now. The federal govt. is using credit to spend, and not worrying about the increase in the National debt.

Logic dictates to cut spending, cut programs, and pay off our national debt.

Why Liberals Hate the Individual

A sexual act between a male and a female is an implied contractual agreement between two consenting adults or it is Rape, Incest Rape or Statutory rape and all are covered under existing law.

Birth control pills, prophylactics, tube tying, vasectomies etc. are a matter of conscience NOT of law.

The taking of human life is NOT a matter of conscience but a matter of law.

I am a strong believer in 'Individual Rights' and NOT a believer in a 'Democracy' but in a 'Constitutional Republic', which America was founded on.

1) Democracy = mob rule, if a group of citizens decide to hang some one, all involved would have a vote, even the one being hung in a 'Democracy', the mob 'vote' would rule.

2) America was founded as a 'Constitutional Republic' and has two principle elements: A Republic is controlled by Law, therefore a Republic does not control Law. The United States Constitution and the Bill of Rights gives every American Citizen the same 'Rights and Protections' no more - no less.

The 'Individual Citizen' in America is the smallest minority group, NOT some 'collective group' comprised by gender, race or ethnic origin.

When an American Citizen or a 'collective Group' of American Citizens are granted rights and protections that does NOT apply to every other American Citizen that violates the Constitution and Bill of Rights.

Activist politicians and activist judges have 'granted' rights i.e. Affirmative Action to 'collective groups', which is a 'Direct Violation' of the Rights and Protections of every American Citizen NOT in those 'collective groups'.

The 'fear' of Abortion Rights advocates is, that a different set of Activist Judges may reverse 'Roe vs Wade'.

When does a baby have 'Individual Rights'?

The 'fear' of Abortion Rights advocates is that a Baby might have the same Rights and Protections that Abortionists have.

top 7 lies of liberals (socialists)
Well I hate to disagree with a man who has written an article that I almost fully agree with and have learned a thing or two from, but I do. I have found that the most truthful of liberal/Democrat/socialists are knowing deceivers. They believe in the 'noble lie' propounded in Plato's Republic. When outlining his masterplan for the new order, Socrates is challenged by a listener who tells him that the people won't go for some of what he says. Socrates replies that it is for the common good and the benefit of the state that they be told some 'noble lies'.

I agree that there are some 'useful idiots' (in Lenin's invaluable phrase), amongst the leftie crowd, but really, those who cannot think for themselves have little sway in the long run. The bleat of 'two legs bad, four legs good' is all they can manage, and everyone knows it really. If you challenge them and make them thing, point out how socialism is wrong in theory and bad in practice, they soon resort to denial of reality to defend their position. They just make facts up to counter yours - well, in their mind, it is 'countered'.

John Hawkins, you are too nice to liberals - in print I mean. To their faces it is different. 'A soft answer turns away wrath' - or avoids it in the first place. And they go around in packs so they can mug honest law-abiding, tax-paying conservatives too. Don't give them prima facie social-situation cause to get lippy. Be as harmless as a dove, but as cunning as a snake. We'll win in the long run - look what happened to the USSR.

Wrat Wrangler
"Date: Mar 31, 2009 - 12:31 PM EST... you make me sick to live in NY City. A troll like you is merely a lying sack of flatulence.

-Ray
NRA Life Member
Soli Deo Gloria!!"

Now how Christian is this my little tool worshiper? (a gun is nothing else but a tool). You do you think?

Duckhunter @ 10:50, "a" - public trans
Er, no. The envirowhacko's want everyone to either eat "organic" food that is magically created in the back room at the local super market or to starve to death. The world is over populated, you know.

(Examine the history of the banning of DDT and gen-mod foods. The purpose of both is genocide in the third world.)

"A", how many times has public transit paid it's own way? Why does it usually need to be subsidized?

No, Doofass
The South got to pay for everything, and got nothing in return. You are aware (I doubt it) that in 1860 90% of the taxes in the forms of tariffs, imposts, and excise taxes were paid by the South.

BTW, according to Clay's Plan, the South got nothing, but the right to pay for all those roads, railroads, canals, ports and telegraphs. Try learning a little history, you anti-Southern, bigoted, ignorant, REMF, garritroopeer S*O*B.

Nero Fiddled - Obama Giggled

Nero fiddled while Rome burned - Barack Obama giggled and laughs on 60 minutes until Kroft asked Obama if he was "Punch Drunk".

Barack Obama has been tutored, mentored and trained, his entire life, for the time when he could destroy America.

Many good Americans were deceived into voting for Obama, just like many good Germans were deceived into voting for Hitler.

Once evil is in power, whether it is personal or National - evil is very difficult to overcome.

America will be scarred for life, just like a man or woman who became personally overcome by evil.

Conservatives
Let us not drop to the level of the Liberals...the attacks are flying from both sides, i am guilty too. End the petty name calling, (although most of it is fairly accurate) and stick to the facts.

Charles LPKY
"Date: Mar 31, 2009 - 12:40 PM EST
Hal
Does not depend on anything, just simple yes or no...In my house hold we cut spending to get out of debt, we only owe on our house now. The federal govt. is using credit to spend, and not worrying about the increase in the National debt..."

It is far more than a simple yes or no. But you are very correct; the federal government WAS using credit to operate (spend)and not addressing debt. But if most of our spending goes to investment some of that invest will take effect and allow recovery and growth much like you going into debt to purchase a home.

"Logic dictates to cut spending, cut programs, and pay off our national debt."

Only if logic indicates that people are willing to starve and live in the dark without taking action

Hal Donahue

It has dawned on me just why you and I will never even come close to agreeing. You look at the economy as a "Republican/Democrat" entity, and that Democrats, of course, are the responsible ones. You're a statist.

I, on the other had think in terms of GOVERNMENT bureaucracy/pols vs the private sector and that the private sector does not need government in their face mucking things up and wasting vast sums on social engineering. This banking disaster is because of government incompetence, corruption, greed and a deliberate refusal to enforce banking regulations and lending standards. In fact, there was a deliberate push to get banks and (Fannie and Freddie) to ignore standard lending standards. This is not a Democrat/Republican thing. It started with Carter and has gotten worse and worse under the rest of the big spending administrations since.

You seem to think that an 80% debt to income ratio is A-okay. I think its obscene, especially when the government (at this point) is paying one in 5 dollars of tax receipts for debt service.

Finally, Hal, if you can actally read the spendulus bill (and I mean all of it, as I did) and can tell me with a atraight face that even a significant portion of the spending is "investment" than I can understand your mentality.

Investment presupposes an expectation of a return greater than the investment itself. How you can possibly think of such spending as $900 million to Hamas or $4.1 billion to ACORN "investments" is beyond me, but it definitely puts to rest any fantasy that you even understand the basics of economics.

ExRCSD Deputy
"Date: Mar 31, 2009 - 12:52 PM EST
No, Doofass
The South got to pay for everything, and got nothing in return. You are aware (I doubt it) that in 1860 90% of the taxes in the forms of tariffs, imposts, and excise taxes were paid by the South.."

Yup but that changed very much by 1865 LOL and growth was astronomical all except the South of course....who even I must admit was treated badly but got their own back for nearly 100 years. Hey how are things with the Dallas cops these days? Thoughts?

Barometer
Anytime a lib starts a sentence with the words I'm not trying to ... or I don't mean to ...
he/she actually intends to do exactly that. eg when Obama says "I don't want to run GM", then fires the CEO and announces his desired product line the words ring hollow.
Another tactic the libs recently developed is to dismiss any policies or positions of their opponents as being "failed" without any supporting evidence whatsoever.

A former Black Panther wrote this:
About liberals:

Amazon.com: Customer Reviews: The Art of Political War and Other Radical Pursuits
http://www.amazon.com/Art-Political-Other-Radical-Purs...

They have a missionary zeal to remake humanity in their image, and remake the country according to their viision - which is drastically different from the founding principles of the United States. The use of smear campaigns and character assisination apparently is acceptable because Conservatives, in their minds, are truly "bad people", and it is "right" to do anything that advances their cause.

Perhaps thts ex- Black Panther is on to something, considering he now writes for TownHall.

David Horowitz.

Doofass:
How are things with the Scranton Keystone Kops?

BTW, everyone here has condemned what Powell did, and he most likely will lose his job. The man had a bad case of John Wayne Syndrome.

Curtal Friar...
JMO51 says:
****Liberals don't torture.****

Oh, my! You missed this one! Who instituted "rendition" as policy? It was Mr. Clinton.

Liberals don't torture...they outsource it!


Hal
Only if logic indicates that people are willing to starve and live in the dark without taking action.

It would not come to anything like that, America survived a lot worse than what we are going though now, with a lot less.

The problem is with the govt. wanting to create a program for everything under the sky. Most of the programs at the federal level would be handled better by the states, under the 10 amendment. Education, transportation, the war on drugs, health care, and energy, just to name a few.

The federal tax system needs an overhaul, the way it is set up now the more you make the more tax loopholes are available. A simplified tax system such as a 15% income tax on ALL Americans, no deductions, no rebate, would go a long way to the recovery. This would also create a equal tax policy, everyone pays the same percentage. This would also allow for a decrease in the size of the Federal government, starting with the IRS.

No!
Someone released the Geekbot!

"Barack Obama has been tutored, mentored and trained, his entire life, for the time when he could destroy America."

You just can't make this stuff up.

"Many good Americans were deceived into voting for Obama, just like many good Germans were deceived into voting for Hitler."

What a perfect analogy. Thanks Geekbot.

Charles LPKY

Forget it, Charles. Hal considers government spending to be "investment."

Here in Massachusetts, we had a boondoggle called the "Big Dig." It was a project that was proclaimed to be an "investment" in Boston's future. It was a project which sunk a7.5 miles of roads (each less than a quarter mile long) and crisscrossed them at different levels under Boston before returning them to the surface.

It was supposed to cost $2 Billion dollars ($4 Billion in todays dollars). 20 years later, it's pushing a projected $17 Billion and it's not fully completed.

The monstrosity started leaking immediately after it partially opened and a woman was killed when a huge concrete panel fell on her car.

Union labor, shoddy workmanship, defective materials, graft, corruption and collossal incompetence in government oversight has rendered this "investment" obsolete before the lane paint dried.

This is Hal's vision of "investment."

What was Barney Franks blowing?

What was Barney Franks blowing, when he should have been blowing the 'Whistle' on AIG?

The Barack Obama Administration pushed the bonuses for AIG executives through and the feigned indignation over the bonuses.

NOTE: Help for Liberals, feigned means not genuine or real.

Barack Obama's Image Elected

Barack Obama has great confidence in his 'False Image' that was elected POTUS.

It is the real Barack Obama that he detests and loathes.

The 'Real Barack Obama' is nothing more than a 'ShamWow' salesman for his created image that doesn't exist in the real world but does exist in his fantasy world - the image is what his worshipers elected.

Obama the 'Narcissist' has detailed his lack of identity, self-worth and self-esteem in his books and interviews.

Obama the 'Narcissist' feeds his 'Needs' from the feedback of his followers and anyone who will listen to him and praise him.

Obama finds his 'self induced' visions of grandeur hard to maintain. Obama does NOT like any challenge to 'His Reality'. Obama is NEVER himself but identifies with the image of his 'Reality'.

Obama believes any challenge that would ask him to account for his actions, decisions or positions, is 'Unacceptable' and does NOT give him the 'Reverence' he so justly deserves.

Obama wants everyone to look at him with admiration, gratefulness and awe, to feed his insatiable appetite to feed his inner lack of self-worth and self-esteem.

Obama will sacrifice anything and everyone that does NOT contribute to his self-image.

Obama will be 'Ruthless' towards anyone or anything that does NOT acknowledge that Obama is 'The One'.

Obama will NEVER be satisfied with just Americans proclaiming 'Obama is the ONE', he seeks the acknowledgment of the 'Entire World'.

How do Conservatives Lie and spin?
Let me count the ways:

Anne Coulter, Sean Hannity, Bill O'Reilly, Rush Limbaugh, Brit Hume, Dinesh D'Souza, Michael Savage, Mark Levin, Glenn Beck...

C'mon folks, your not guitless. I am not saying liberals are clean but neither are you. You only see the world from your vantage point. If they do not agree with you, they are either lying or the "Liberal Media".

Fox News is not News! It is entertainment news. There are no journalists on Fox News. Just commentators. There is no investigative reporting, it costs too much money and cuts into profits.

Fox News, TH and other radio/TV commentators as mentioned above use anger, knee-jerk populism, sensationalism and fear to get ratings.

You create a liberal straw man like Mr. Hawkins did and then you knock it down so you can build yourselfs up. You are a close knit clan that reinforces each others views that take on a perception that distorts reality.

You are becoming a disenfranchised minority out of touch with reality.

Bob_C
"Date: Mar 31, 2009 - 12:57 PM EST
Hal Donahue

It has dawned on ...'re a statist."

I don't look at it D/R I look at it from a growing the pie aspect. The government is only a tool of the people nothing more. But it is a tool that can be useful to improve life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness

"...I, on the other had ...on social engineering..."

I look at poisoned foods, toys and environment not to mention squandered investments and Know that a referee is needed. The lack of one is what keeps third world nations third world.

"...This banking disaster is because of government incompetence, corruption, greed and a deliberate refusal to enforce banking regulations and lending standards..."

See you want government also and need it. But that government must be competent; it has not been

"...You seem to think that an 80% debt to income ratio is A-okay. I think its obscene, especially when the government (at this point) is paying one in 5 dollars of tax receipts for debt service.."

I think it may go to 100% and is needed to avert a far worse depression than we are in now.

"...Investment presupposes an expectation of a return greater than the investment itself. How you can possibly think of such spending as $900 million to Hamas or $4.1 billion to ACORN "investments" is beyond me, but it definitely puts to rest any fantasy that you even understand the basics of economics."

See had to put the zinger in there didn't you? LOL
If aid to Hamas allows for a peace settlement of some kind our payback is not having to send the huge amounts of welfare/aide that we now do for Israel and Egypt. Investing in community development most certainly should increase value through social and physical infrastructure improvements. I suspect our disconnect is the old urban/rural one

ExRCSD Deputy
"Date: Mar 31, 2009 - 1:08 PM EST...BTW, everyone here has condemned what Powell did, and he most likely will lose his job. The man had a bad case of John Wayne Syndrome..."

That is how he came across. Are there many more of him on that force or is he one that just sneaked through? I know it is hard to tell who will be the good cop versus the cowboy until they are on the street

Hal Donahue.....
” In the liberal’s dictionary, ‘investment’ means spending, ‘sacrifice’ means taxes, ‘directed spending’ means congressional pork, ‘stimulus plan’ means bailouts, ‘bailouts’ means socialism.” Sam Sanford

Bob C
I remember seeing the Big Dig in the news right after the tunnel collapsed and killed that lady. The big dig turned into a big money pit. Seems like it was not such a good idea now.

I am not to worried about Hal, but he is being civil with me so i will show him the same.

Charles LPKY

It always gets my blood boiling when the clowns in government start whining about the "crumbling infrastructure."

The fact of the matter is that both the feds and the states spent the money designated for maintenance on roads, bridges and utilities on other things. They've done it for decades. Then, when a bridge collapses or a watermain break occurs, these same clowns use it as an excuse to demand more taxes, and to raise gasoline taxes, fees and tolls.