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Tuesday, February 10, 2009
John Hawkins :: Townhall.com Columnist
The Top Six Problems With the Stimulus
by John Hawkins
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1) First of all, it's very debatable whether stimulus bills work at all. As Walter Williams has pointed out,

"In stimulus package language, if Congress taxes to hand out money, one person is stimulated at the expense of another, who pays the tax and is unstimulated. A visual representation of the stimulus package is: Imagine you see a person at work taking buckets of water from the deep end of a swimming pool and dumping them into the shallow end in an attempt to make it deeper. You would deem him stupid. That scenario is equivalent to what Congress and the new President proposes for the economy." -- Walter Williams

2) According to the Wall Street Journal, there is very little actual "stimulus" in the stimulus bill,

"In selling the plan, President Obama has said this bill will make 'dramatic investments to revive our flagging economy.' Well, you be the judge. Some $30 billion, or less than 5% of the spending in the bill, is for fixing bridges or other highway projects. There's another $40 billion for broadband and electric grid development, airports and clean water projects that are arguably worthwhile priorities.

Add the roughly $20 billion for business tax cuts, and by our estimate only $90 billion out of $825 billion, or about 12 cents of every $1, is for something that can plausibly be considered a growth stimulus."

3) Even if you set aside #1 and #2, a significant percentage of the spending in the stimulus bill doesn't occur for two years.

"Although the argument for quickly passing the $800-billion-plus stimulus bill now before Congress is that pumping money into the economy immediately will spur economic growth and create jobs, almost half of the new spending—as opposed to tax cuts—being proposed in the bill would not be spent until at least two years from now, according to an analysis published by the Congressional Budget Office."

How is spending that's not going to occur for two years supposed to stimulate the economy today and prevent those 500 million lost jobs per month that Nancy Pelosi told us about? If Barack Obama really believes what he says and thinks that, "A failure to act, and act now, will turn crisis into a catastrophe," then why isn't the spending frontloaded into this bill?

4) Even the "non-partisan" Congressional Budget Office, which many Republicans consider to be tilted to the left, is saying that this bill is worse than doing nothing over the long-haul.

President Obama's economic recovery package will actually hurt the economy more in the long run than if he were to do nothing, the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office said Wednesday.

CBO, the official scorekeepers for legislation, said the House and Senate bills will help in the short term but result in so much government debt that within a few years they would crowd out private investment, actually leading to a lower Gross Domestic Product over the next 10 years than if the government had done nothing.

CBO estimates that by 2019 the Senate legislation would reduce GDP by 0.1 percent to 0.3 percent on net. [The House bill] would have similar long-run effects, CBO said in a letter to Sen. Judd Gregg, New Hampshire Republican, who was tapped by Mr. Obama on Tuesday to be Commerce Secretary.

How much sense does it make to push through a bill designed to "stimulate" our economy when we know that it will actually reduce economic growth?

5) Despite the initial claims that this bill would be "targeted, timely, and temporary," the Democrats have moved quite a few regular budget items into the stimulus package. Republican Senator Jeff Sessions says this was done in order to avoid the normal budgeting process and that the new baseline for these programs will be the amount that they were allocated in the last budget plus the amount the programs receive in the stimulus package.

In other words, the stimulus package seems likely to add hundreds of billions of dollars, every year going forward, to the budget deficit. No wonder Barack Obama is predicting that America will run "trillion-dollar deficits for years to come" under his "leadership."

6) The sheer cyclopean size of this stimulus package, which comes up to roughly 1.2 trillion dollars when you add in the interest over 10 years, is difficult for most people to comprehend. How big is it? As Mitch McConnell said,

"If you started spending the day that Jesus was born and you spent a million dollars every single day, you still wouldn't have spent a trillion dollars."

Still having trouble wrapping your mind around it? Think of it like this: in today's dollars, the stimulus bill will cost more than the war in Korea and the war in Iraq -- combined! It will cost about the same amount as FDR's New Deal AND the war in Vietnam combined! It'll cost far more than the Marshall Plan, the Louisiana Purchase, and putting a man on the moon -- combined!

Those were momentous events in our history. Going to the moon, rebuilding Europe, fighting wars -- meanwhile, ten years from now, we'll have very little to show from this stimulus plan other than a considerably larger national debt and slower economic growth. In other words, all hyperbole aside, this may very well be the single least effective, most wasteful, most costly piece of legislation in all of recorded human history.

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The Top 6 Problems With The Stimulus
I couldn't agree more with Mr. Hawkins. I just can't believe how many foolish American citizens are buying the Obama explanation of taking our Nation into such extreme indebtedness. What's even more distressing is that anyone who seems to rationally question Obama's thoughts, promises and words in general are treated as if they are traitors...

The landscape across this nation is about to radically change...and I fear forever, not for good, but for an irreversible 'bad'.

Restarting the free market economy
This economy, for years, maybe decades, has been in a state of overstimulation through the credit markets - any you care to name. Mortgages to unfit homebuyers, credit limits to unfit consumers, loans to sinking businesses. All made by America's unregulated banking industry which scraped off trillions in fees.

Now we are being asked to bail out the credit industry - so they can continue to pay themselves and extend more credit to the same bad credit risks which sent their financial statements into a tailspin last September.

This bill simply delays the inevitable. Only it makes the inevitable fall harder and harder. Now is the time to wipe the slate clean, not support businesses who will die a natural death in five or ten years, leaving us holding the bag.

Now is the time, thru tax holidays, to let the American people, not the government, pick the winners and losers and restart the free market economy. We are already fifty trillion in debt, we don't need another ten trillion added to that.

Excellent article by Hawkins!
This trillion dollar boondoggle is truly absurd. The magnitude of this much money is difficult to comprehend, and sadly, the average voter (unless currently out of a job) isn't paying enough attention to what is going on. Using his politics of fear, crisis and doom, Obama is trying to rush this program through. The spending will benefit the private interest groups that got him elected and fall far short of what is needed to stimulate economic growth, and there is more to come. Stay tuned for Geithner's proposals tomorrow. It's true that the country is danger. The problem is OBAMA!

Mr President:
We borrowed and spent our way into this financial hole. So you "inherited" it, you didn't do it, we all did it, fine, that's a side issue.

The question is, How you propose to get out of it? Boroow and spend some more, otherwise we'll face the "catastrophe" which is - WHAT? That we don't borrow to spend but instead we climb up into the light of day and START ANEW and WORK and PRODUCE and LIVE WITHIN OUR MEANS and DO WITHOUT some things and trinkets and SAVE some of our money so we could PAY DOWN the debt?

Is THAT the catastrophe you're speaking of?

NO, Mr President. That is actually the only way out of the hole we dug for ourselves. Doing the same thing that got us here and expecting a different result, is INSANITY. STOP DIGGING.
NOW.


AMEN NICK in Austin!
"Now is the time, thru tax holidays, to let the American people, not the government, pick the winners and losers and restart the free market economy."

YES! Let WE the PEOPLE get ourselves out of this! I truly believe WE the PEOPLE CAN! WE know better what to do.

This bill is SOCIALIST in nature. It takes us down that road to ruin.

CUT our taxes -- CUT small business taxes -- payroll taxes....(80% of jobs come from small business)... WATCH what we can do! Government... give us our money and get out of our way!

good article
any bill that includes funding for ACORN is criminal - not my tax dollars. This guy is truly a criminal clown. Where is George Soros in all of this? This drive to socialism is intended to create an oligarchy run by these liberal freaks that want to bring the U.S. to ruin. Impeach Obama.

Catastrophe?
There are plenty of explanations given as to why the economic downturn happened and there is plenty of opinion, just on a purely physical level, as to how to reverse the downturn. But how about the spiritual?

Dutch Sheets, after the election wrote:

"Judgment Will Increase

This is not a fire and brimstone warning from an angry, legalistic preacher. In fact, I feel more sadness and grief than anything else.
Perhaps I feel what Jesus felt as He wept for Jerusalem while announcing its judgment. I am not hoping for judgment; I am saying it is inevitable. I don’t know where the unbiblical belief comes from that says a nation can live any way it pleases, can reject God and His ways-even mock Him-and not receive His judgments. Nor do I know when the belief came that it is always mean-spirited or judgmental to warn of these things. To the contrary, I believe it is our responsibility.

In warning of judgment, I am not suggesting that God is going to intentially and directly hurt people. Much judgment is simply the absence of God’s protection and provision, caused by a rejection of His laws and ways. We have been experiencing some forms of judgment in America for years, but God in His incredible patience and mercy has kept us from the level we’ve deserved. I believe this will change to a degree and judgment will now increase:..."

http://r180.com/blog/2008/11/08/dutch-sheets-election-barac k-obama-letter/

2 Chronicles 7:14

Looking Back
"The One," "The Messiah," "The Great Obambi" wasted no time in the 'blame game' talking about the impending "catastrophe." No more 'hope,' nope! It's all Geworge Bush's fault and the "failed practices of the past"(?).This clown we have elected President reminds me of a used car salesman. He doesn't explain the lack of responsibility for this mess by Christopher Dodd and Barney Frank. The money they took for campaigns, the connections between the theives at Fannie and Freddie, the lies told: "there were some problems with Fannie Mae, but were beyond that now." (Barney Frank-July 6, 2008.) These two Banking Comittee chairs were adamant about stopping regulation four times in the last three years. McCain tried in the Senate and each time was told his banking regulations were"dead on arrival." Now we're toast, and it's all Bush's fault. Okey dokey! In two years, when we're looking at hyperinflation, giant interest rates and unemployment around 15%, will it still be Goerge Bush's fault? If you liked Jimmah Carter, you'll LOVE Obambi.

Why the two year span?
Easy. Thats when the next election cycle hits.

All King O has ever done is run for office, all his life. He is of course going to think in terms of election cycles.

WHAT SHOULD COME FIRST
Wouldn't it make more sense if the Secretary of the Treasury disclosed his plan to the Congress before it established its plan, the stimulus/spending bill?

Shouldn't the House and Senate have the benefit of this information so a coordinated and sensible judgment could be made in allocating these multiple trillion dollars of expenditures?

Good Point Otis
We are being hand fed a lie, preconceived, dressed up and chock full of MSG (Misinformation, Surreptitiousness and Graft). Methinks some indigestion is sure to follow.

I wouldn't be surprised if Biden's "percentage" comment wasn't actually planned as some sort of an out for these crooks... "see, we told you it might not work..."

The Messiah
Obama and the democrats are CONTROL FREAKS. Obama is playing God resulting in a disaster.

I'm so sick of hearing about the last eight years that tax breaks didn't work. The tax cuts did work it's not Bush's fault that people didn't live within their budget which means you pay your necessary bills before you buy JUNK. How many people even know about a budget. The government is making people dumber every day by their constant control of the mind by their fear tactics.

I might add this is a total example

(2) PROHIBITED USES OF FUNDS. No funds awarded under this section may be used for - (C) modernization, renovation, or repair of facilities (i) used for sectarian instruction, religious worship, or a school or department of divinity; or (ii) in which a substantial portion of the functions of the facilities are subsumed in a religious mission; or construction of new facilities.

God help the USA and stop this insanity.

Wealth Redistribution, Economic Stimulus
There are two kinds of “wealth re-distribution.” Honest and dishonest.

Honest wealth re-distribution is done by honest, responsible people within the framework of our Constitutional Republic (limited Government with self-disciplined freedom), and free enterprise and capitalism, by people who earn money making and selling quality products and services, and then buying products and services from others. The wealth continues to redistribute and keep our economy healthy.

Dishonest wealth re-distribution is done by tyrannical Socialistic Government (un-limited Government with no freedom), using our tax money without our permission (“Taxation Without Representation”) to support dishonest, irresponsible, and lazy people, leading to an unhealthy economy. Many people on welfare and food stamps are able to work, but too lazy. Many severely disables people who ccould qualify for welfare are mature and responsible to work for their living.

Want the best “economic stimulus package”? Try the one described on pages 210-211 of Wm James Murray’s book “Uncommon Sense.” Private property, incentive, labor, production, abundance. This is the American way of life.

I believe the most effective health care is accomplished by responsible parents caring for their children for about 18 years plus, and then 20-40 years later adult children caring for their aging parents and grandparents. We don't need expensive, Government-run (socialistic welfare) health care programs.

Chuck Sproull, Springville In

Not a chance of success
The failure of this plan will be spectacular. Our OJT president is taking the traditional democrat approach of throwing money at a problem.

Worse it seems, is that he lacks any real personal leadership philosophy as he constantly tries to channel former presidents and their failed programs. This guy is the Sybil-in-Chief.

Obama promised to reverse the policies of the Bush administration. Bush handed us a 700 billion dollar boondoggle, so now a trillion is the reverse of 700 billion?

Fortunately, no real republicans are supporting this bill, just the RINO's.


noboma and the MSM
Last night was a total sham. You could tell that the reporters that were chosen for questions was a put up deal.

Noboma could not possibly have any answers for any of the other reporters that were not allowed to ask questions.

He had already picked the questions and the so-called reporters that were to ask the questions.

He hemmed and hawed for too long to make any sence of what he said.

If he thinks that he has the answers for our Country, he is badly mistaken. He is a SHAM perpetrated by the MSM upon our Country.

May God help us.

The Top Six Problems....
I do NOT have any problems understanding all these bizarre shenanigans - - - (in a parody of the immortal words of Forrest Gump): STUPID people pick STUPID "leaders."

This guy is a fear monger
He will say anything to get his way.

We are on the road to socialism and there appears to be no way to stop these fools.

Writing to congressman is a waste of time, they don't read it, some secretary reads it and sends back a canned response...Meanwhile they do anything they damnedwell feel like doing with our money knowing we'll forget about it and suck it up.

The conservatives make a lot of noise about this ridiculous bill, but in the end, they'll vote for it because they don't want to be seen as obstructionist...


I say to any that might read this site..grow a pair! Stand up en-masse and walk OUT, call this clown what he is a marxist and STOP this now!

You guys admire the framers? Act like them, put your sacred honor on the line and stop this train before we all wind up over the cliff.




Actually, the TOP problem with this

"Marxist Spendulus Bill" is that it's a sure fire way to put us right on the fast track to Marxism-Communism.

Those who are educated about our economic history say that "do NOTHING!" is the best way to go.

About the *1920* depression... no one really hears about that because the govt did NOTHING (except CUT SPENDING!) and the country was on the other side of that depression in a year!!!

Note, the 1920 depression is barely a blip in our economic history.

Just MORE PROOF! We're far better off when the govt STAYS OUT OF IT!

But, anyone who doubts were Bozo WANTS to take us, take a look at the "Health Care Spending."

Last night Bozo talked about the cost effectiveness of digitizing health records. What he FAILED to mention is that his intention is to mention is his plan to have the government have access to everyone's health records, as well as determine what health care you may or may not be eligible for.

Go Obama!
Thank goodness we have a smart president who can get the economy out of the mess it's in.
The things I like best-
Infrastructure - $43 billion for transportation projects, including $30 billion for highway and bridge construction and repair and $12 billion for mass transit, including $7.5 billion to buy transit equipment like buses; $31 billion to build and repair federal buildings and other public infrastructure; $19 billion in water projects; $10 billion in rail and mass transit projects.
Education - $41 billion in grants to local school districts; $79 billion in state fiscal relief to prevent cuts in state aid; $21 billion for school modernization; $16 billion to boost the maximum Pell Grant by $500 to $5,350; $2 billion for Head Start.
e stimulus bill-Law enforcement - $4 billion in grants to state and local law enforcement to hire officers and purchase equipment.
TAXES-Individuals-$500 per-worker, $1,000 per-couple tax cut for two years, costing about $145 billion. Workers could expect to see about $20 a week less withheld from their paychecks starting in June. Millions of Americans who don't make enough money to pay federal income taxes could file returns next year and receive checks.
more-
http://www.wben.com/What-s-In-The-Stimulus-Bill-/3748587

Obama will lead us?

Actual City populations, NOT Metropolitan areas 2007.
-----------------------------------------------------

If every person in New York City were on welfare.

It would approximate the number of whites on welfare, in the United States.

New York City, NY 8,274,527

-----------------

If every person in these cities were on welfare.

It would approximate the number of blacks on welfare, in the United States.

Los Angeles, CA 3,834,340

Chicago, IL 2,836,658

Philadelphia, PA 1,440,634

Dallas, TX 1,240,499

------------------


Then there is 15 to 20 million illegal immigrants to support.

To further exacerbate the problems, Nancy Pelosi informs us that 500 million workers each month are losing their jobs.

Barack Obama's solution, is to borrow billions of dollars from China and give it mostly to these people listed above or to those banks and businesses who have proven they cannot manage their business or themselves.

Then Barack Obama chooses 'tax cheaters' to help him with his plan to stabilize the economy.

Barack Obama cannot tell the difference between a door and a window in the White House and cannot enter his special helicopter without bumping his head - will lead all of this? ? ?

I am going to ....
I am going to be like the Dumbocrats & Liberals:
- Use barter system and never report the income
- Lie on my tax returns as much as I can
- Cheat on welfare programs
- Not pay my bills and tell them to see the government who has all my money and takes care of everyone

Only then can I afford to live under the Dumbocrats plans for this country!

True Stimulus Would Incourage Those With
Capital to spend it with a confidence that government interference will not unnecessarily depreciate their investment.

And speaking of confidence, there will never be confidence in lending until the government owns up to their disproportionate share of the blame and corrects it, for it was they who leveraged that cycle of risky credit by creating the mindset for many who sought loans to seek loans beyond their means.

Yes, from those in poor neighborhoods with a poor history of repaying loans to each subsequent income level upwards that saw those beneath them seemingly achieve what they had, the dominoes of bad credit fell across the nation and precipitated the economic crisis we have today.

It was not a Conservative principle to create the idea of "affordable housing" which really meant make loans to those who could not afford them and thus set they whole debacle into motion.

Obvious!!!
It was as plain as could be that Obama pre-picked reporters and knew the questions they were going to ask. I kept waiting for him to shut up but he just went on and on. His head, ping-ponging back and forth, showed how he was reading from at least 2 teleprompters during the main part of his spiel. I got up and left after listening to just 2 of his long-winded answers. It was just too painful to hear him "spinning" the manure into more manure: Obamastilskin! While we the taxpayers keep trying to guess his name. Marximo? Communatus? Lefty-Pom-Pom? Sad little man!!!

He lies so confidantly and easily--you can tell he's had plenty of practice!!

The only real catastrophe is that this is not a fairy tale that has a happy ending.

Pay Attention
The frightening thing is that those who voted for this crap are not even paying attention. They wont know what hit them until Obama's brown shirts come a knockin on their bedroom doors.

Stimulus that will work
We the people pay all taxes, and we are the only ultimate source of all tax revenue. Regardless where government initially collects the money, all tax money ultimately comes from us, the people.
Since we the people are the one and only source of all tax revenue:
There should be only one tax to collect all tax revenue.
It should be a single, simple, fair, direct, graduated, individual, full-income tax levied on living persons for each level of government: One Tax and Done.
You cannot convince a person or a corporation to start a new business or expand an existing business, increase jobs, and hire new employees, when you tax away the operating capitol he is using to operate his PRESENT business
The best thing that government can do to help the country, the people, and even government, is to repeal all of the many hundreds, or thousands of existing taxes, fees, and charges. These taxes are the federal deficit. These taxes are the high price of everything. These tax eliminations are spending cuts. Every tax that is eliminated is a tax that we the people no longer have to pay. These taxes are the difference between the price we pay for health care and everything else, and the price we would pay if these taxes were repealed. Eliminating these taxes will remove them from the price paid for everything by everyone.
One Tax and Done will provide many benefits to all, even government:
One Tax and Done will reduce the price paid for everything by one-third.

Details Details
Oh come on now, we HAVE to do something and we HAVE to show that we care! What better way to meet these goals then to spend a lot of money. Let's don't get bogged down in the details because years down the road do you really think anyone is going to remember the details or the causation of the economic malaise at that time? It's time to party like it's 2009, so let's max out the 'ol credit card like there's no tommorrow and deal with the hangover later.

The Top 6 Problems
So, why is this bad bill going to pass; we're getting exactly what we elected into office. As I watched our President yesterday during the scripted 'First Presidential Press Conference' not only couldn't I believe the questions, the answers just made no sense. He didn't tell us anything and it was like the stump speeches he made all during the campaign and the lies he spouted about the worst economy since the depression and the Republicans caused all of this during the last 8 years, was depressing to listen to. Business is going out of business and we're supposed to care about A-Rod. I just hope when the midterm elections come, we don't forget.

And we must not forget
the let the senior's die clause. The stimulus bill includes a plan for a government committe that will determine what treatment you doctor can give you and a model to dtermine cost-effectiveness -- meaning old people won't get treatment. I feel sorry for the senior's who didnt vote for Obama. Not to mention the babies needing very expensive treatments at birth -- I'm betting if these infants have any disabilities the government will rule that we kill them as well. This country is no longer free and between death by government bureacrat, plans for government detainment centers for citizens, and Obama's civilian defense force, and the planned end to the 2nd amendement I believe we will all be sorry that we let our schools dumb-down the populace so much that Obama and his ilk were inevitable.

Terri #5
The way I disagree with you that taxes should be ELIMINATED not CUT. See post called "Stimulus that will work".

Last night, I watched "Antiques Roadshow" while Odumbo was on. It mad a lot more sense.

Sgt Relic #14: And there were only 2 RINO's supporting it: Specter (PA) and Collins (ME).


Don Juan #27
What do you mean, "government did nothing during the Hoover administration"?
They passed the Smoot-Hawsey tarrif which turned the recession into the Great Depression.

And as bad as it is
sixty-one senators including three Republicans are going to vote for it. I hope those three are forever excluded from the Republican party.

Madoff - Amateur
Compared to our politicians Madoff is nothing but a tiny amateur.
Does any fool even believe that, after being screwed royally, the Chinese are going to lend us more trillions? Even if they could?
The answer is the printing presses and galloping inflation. Get ready for the Dollar to be worth less than Monopoly "money"...
We are investors, we saw this mess forming almost a decade ago. We sold all our US based assets back then and now we are spreading our investments in over 25 countries, none in America, the business climate here is too hostile and we expect it to get much worse in the near future.

Here's the bottom line
A President with no experience staffs his administration with crooks, spends money borrowed from China in order to throw future generations into debt, prints money to insure rabid inflation, pretends to listen to his detractors, apologizes abroad for his country, demonstrates international weakness, dismisses legitimate questions, disses his opposition, and yet claims to be the hope of America. I don't think so. My only hope is that this admiinstation will be gone in 3 years and 11 months (but who's counting?).

Good Intentions
"At least, Obama is trying to do something".

Isn't that what liberalism is all about -- good intentions! How dare the evil Republicans actually try to analyze things and measure results. The result is not important, only that you care. And what better way to show you care then to throw a bunch of money at something -- right Don Juan?

Don Juan
"Supply side economics has failed"?
How is that possible? Do you think about what you write?
I guess the new economics is 'demand side economics', right?
With all this demanding who will be doing the supplying, the government?

To Don Juan
Your argument is a "Red Herring". You expect the government, who created the conditions that got us into this mess,to get us out of this mess. I include both Democrats and Republicans. Our president is also included when you consider that he was a Senator previously.

You cannot lay the blame entirely at the feet of the past administration, though they certainly deserve their share of it.

Your argument is based on what? Did you bother to even read the Hawkins piece before responding? There is more than plenty wrong with this stimulus bill, and the old saying is still true that "two wrongs don't make a right".

Lastly, while the quoted words of Teddy Roosevelt may be stirring, they refer to us, the citizenry of a Republic that died, or to be more accurate, was murdered by our government over 100 years ago. It is we, the citizens who are in the arena, not the politicians, who, like the Romans, sit in their coliseum and observe us and determining if we should live or die.

If is we, the citizens who are in the arena and have to live the the aftermath of decisions that our politicians make in collusion with wall street, our financial institutions, and every other self interest they have managed to pay off with this stimulus bill.

LONG LIVE THE REPUBLIC.

Anne-RGeek-Others
The Top 6 Problems With The Stimulus
1. Boondoggle Hopey Overspent
2. Fairy Reid
3. Plastic Surgery Piglosi
4. Taxcheat Geithner
5. Pork in The Spendulus Bill
6. 64,000,000 people who were STUPID enough to vote for the Sail Eared Simpleton.

It's just plain stupid.
Why are we putting up with this nonsense? Why are we letting Nancy Pelosi types run our country?

?????????????
Have they stopped forcing banks to give out loans to people that cannot afford them?

Stimulus
Pelosi predicts 500 million job losses per month? The entire US population is only 300 million. As for McConnel, 1 million per day since the birth of Jesus would be 1 million times 2,000, times 365, which would be approximately 720,000,000,000,000,000.

PEOPLE AREN'T SMART ENOUGH

.....TO GOVERN THEMSELVES ...

.....The mob will always be lured by the siren call of the spinmeisters ...the average man on the street has the IQ and political acumen of a potato ...

.....FDR's policies during the Great Depression (1929 - 1941) did nothing to improve the economy but the populace loved him because he gave nice Fireside Chats and "seemed" to be doing something ...

.....The same holds true for Obama ...an astute listner to his speeches will recognize the smoke and mirrors and lack of substance ...but to the average dullard, they will like what they see ...an attractive, seemingly sincere, articulate young man who is trying to "do" something ...and that is all that matters to them ..."what fools these mortals be" .....COLOSSUS

Pick and shovel work for Ruth
Another problem with the spending/non-stimulus bill is the "type" of work it is going to create.

Ruth claims the bill has "Infrastructure - $30 billion for highway and bridge construction and repair and $ $31 billion to build and repair federal buildings and other public infrastructure; $10 billion in rail and mass transit projects. etc etc

Great if this was the 1930s. But does she expect middle managers at lehmen brothers to suddenly get jobs swinging a pick or shoveling asaphalt by the side of the road?

Not knocking that type of labor cause I dug my share of foxholes in the Army and did landscaping for a few years before that but is that really the type work America needs now?

In the 30s American labor force was largely uneducated and many displaced farmers and immigrants found work in public works projects. These were poor people getting poorer and government projects kept them fromstarving to death.

Today it is not the day laborer, largly immigrant population building roads and bridges that needs economic stimulus, but the mid-management, computer programmers, and skilled laborers.

The problem started with a bubble in the housing markets when overleveraged properties suddenly were worth less then banks could foreclose on them for and people getting laid off couldn't afford their houses.

Again not knocking honest laborers but they are not out buying decent housing in my neighborhood on their salaries. However managers at the Gulfstream plant are.

It is the middle class that is being most effected today and most of them are not getting jobs with a shovel in their hands.

If someone needs work, has a HS diploma, is in good health and no felony charges against them, my employer is always hiring. Will provide job training and health benifits. No need for a stimulus plan.

http://www.goarmy.com

Or email me at tinsldr2@yahoo.com

RUTH PA

.....I was thinking about you when I wrote my 10:53 post ...

.....Keep dreaming girl and twenty years from now you will be paying $10 for a loaf of bread and your grandchildren will have a standard of living that will be less than that of your parents ...but Obama is cute isn't he? .....COLOSSUS

Jim is correct
Stupid people pick stupid leaders!

But why are we ignorant?( human beings by nature especially children are not stupid)

Why did John Dewey push government schools into teaching hieroglyphics casting aside tried and true phonics. Didn't he sign the Humanist Manifesto.
Wasn't and isn't it the purpose of elitists to keep the masses uneducated propagandized and with limited vocabularies unable to think. Producing chanters and parrots.

Why doesn't the news and entertainment industry present all the facts surrounding an issue?

Why do we allow government schools to teach our children that they exist only by an accident of nature and their lives are truly meaningless. That they should explore sex at an early age outside of the covenant of marriage. This is to keep the masses foolish, unable to think and degraded so they will become dependent rather than independent.

Proof: How many people believed al gore's con job?

Walter Williams' Not Quite Right
The problem with Walter Williams' analogy is that when the Government takes out a bucket from the deep end to dump in the shallow end, it spills some of the water in transit.

William

William writes, "The problem with Walter Williams' analogy is that when the Government takes out a bucket from the deep end to dump in the shallow end, it spills some of the water in transit."

Actually, for every dollar confiscated by government, only $0.20 is returned in the form of whatever program it is intended to fund. The other $0.80 is absorbed in overhead, graft, incomprehensible incompetence and waste.

So on the way to the shallow end, the government dumps out eighty percent of the water, with a net loss. Eventually the pool will run dry.

You want an insight into the minds of Obama, Pilosi, Clinton, Reid, et al? Read this and Ludwig Von Mises' "The Anti-Capitalistic Mentality."

http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/09/barack_obama_and_the _strategy.html

Interesting
There are a lot of claims about what the CBO said. Each time I made the mistake of thinking that if I hit the link I would be brought to somewhere in which the CBO actually said such a thing. Instead each link is to a right wing cite that does not itself link to the CBO. The result is a lot of out of context quotes with no way to check the actual context.

The actual letter being referred to can be found at http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/96xx/doc9619/Gregg.pdf.

It is hard to imagine anyone reading that letter would see it as evidence against the stimulus. But then some people are pretty silly. The letter describes significant positive effects for the next few years (the period of predicted recession without the stimulis bill) and a negligiable long term effect well within the ability of the CBO to make predictions.

It obviously would also be helpful when citing the Wall Street Journal to distinguish between the news pages which tend to base their writing on facts and the opinion pages which do not feel obliged to.

Duckhunter

I wouldn't waste my time responding to Dawn Juan. The man is not just stupid, but he doesn't even know he's stupid.

It is comforting in a way to know that he and most others like him are on the left side of the aisle and alway good for a belly laugh.

on a separate note
If one wants to see an answer to the first two points that Hawkins raises, how can stimulus spending stimulate the economy and how can this particular bill do so, then one good source of an explanation is the letter which I provided a link to above.

Hawkins takes an out of context bit of it to support opposition to the bill, but the actual letter gives a good explanation as to how the stimulus works.

Messiah!
Messiah?

How about plain ol' MESS!

A must read
http://jandrea.blogtownhall.com/default.aspx

Defining "Stimulus".

baseballdoc, I loved your post!
"the average man on the street has the IQ and political acumen of a potato ", the same can be said for the average Congressman or Senator! They are like sheep being led or rounded more likely, to follow the wolves.

As someone else pointed out, it is fruitless to write your "representatives" as they know you don't matter and they are going to tell us what we need. And woe be to any that dissent from the the "One", as you will surely meet with a true representative of the government, the IRS!

Infrastructure will not work
The so called infrastructure projects will be tied up with environmental "studies" & lawsuits until the money is gone

Lon

Lon claims, "Hawkins takes an out of context bit of it to support opposition to the bill, but the actual letter gives a good explanation as to how the stimulus works."

That letter is fantasy. The fact of the matter its writer assumes a bunch of ridiculous assertions.

1. That by ripping capital out of the private sector (and borrowing foreign money) the government can spark enough of a rise in GDP to tax to be able to pay for all of this. History has shown us just the opposite. The national debt has risen precipitisly since WW2 and the Bell curve is nearing vertical. Just as you and I cannot long survive by paying our credit cards with other credit cards, neither can the government. The ponzi mentality is self destructive and has no chance of succeeding.

2. The idea that the government can "create jobs" in the first place is another absurd fallacy. All they can do is, at great expense, move the deck chairs around on a sinking ship. 75% of the jobs in this country are created by small businsses and there is NOTHING in that Porkulus bill to help small businesses in any meaningful way.

You really should read this bill before you decide. I don't mean read some watered down version, but the actual bill.

Lon

Lon claims, "Hawkins takes an out of context bit of it to support opposition to the bill, but the actual letter gives a good explanation as to how the stimulus works."

That letter is fantasy. The fact of the matter its writer assumes a bunch of ridiculous assertions.

1. That by ripping capital out of the private sector (and borrowing foreign money) the government can spark enough of a rise in GDP to tax to be able to pay for all of this. History has shown us just the opposite. The national debt has risen drastically since WW2 and the Bell curve is nearing vertical. Just as you and I cannot long survive by paying our credit cards with other credit cards, neither can the government. The ponzi mentality is self destructive and has no chance of succeeding.

2. The idea that the government can "create jobs" in the first place is another absurd fallacy. All they can do is, at great expense, move the deck chairs around on a sinking ship. 75% of the jobs in this country are created by small businsses and there is NOTHING in that Porkulus bill to help small businesses in any meaningful way.

You really should read this bill before you decide. I don't mean read some watered down version, but the actual bill.

One only has to watch
one of Jay Leno's "man in the street" interviews to see how these clowns get elected.

I would guarantee that the vast majority who post here are above the age where they were dumbed down in a gov't school...we learned to be patriots not communists, we learned how to succeed, we worked hard and were not about to take welfare from anyone...if things got tough we worked a second job no matter how demeaning and out of our area of expertise, we raised our kids and stayed true to our wives,kind of a pride thing.

I never thought I'd see the day where there are enough of the other variety to put this country at risk...God help our grandchildren. and damm the liberals for the fools that they are.

Let Congress hear you voice
Well, the stimulus plan appears to only be stimulating the National Debt. And I’m not sure how spending billions on new government furniture will stimulate economic growth other then for Saunders furniture outlets.

I still believe the liberals in Congress tanked the economy on purpose as they saw their numbers decline. They thought once in power again it would be a quick fix in their twisted minds. What they didn’t plan on was what the taxpayer’s reaction would be. So, they bring out there liberal friends to try to convince us that their new plan will work and the public at this time aren’t buying their BS any longer. So enter Warren Buffet to try and con the American public that it was once again okay to reinvest their retirement funds back into a very shaky Stock Market. So Mr. Buffet invests his billions into General Electric and all we have seen was that stock continuous decline. He bought the stock when it was at $23.00 or so per share. As of this morning that stock 11.56 per share. I have a sinking suspicion that’s what our economy will look like in the coming years no matter what the MSM tries to tell us that Obama and company have saved the day. I only wish we could jeopardizing their jobs they way they have jeopardize the rest of America’s.

It looks like Mr. Buffet lost more billions and unfortunately no matter how they spin the economy and try to become heroes in this financial fiasco, the general tax payers are no longer believing they’ll fix nothing. They’ll always have an out by blaming the Republicans for everything.

As an Alabama resident I am so happy that we have true conservatives in the House and Senate who are telling us just how non-stimulating this Bill is. They really didn’t need to tell us that, most already knew, but it’s nice to get conformation that it will do nothing. The liberal’s egos and arrogance will be the eventual downfall of the Democratic Party. Make your voices heard http://www.nostimulus.com/.

One Stimulus Bill Would Work!
. . . and it was first introduced in 1999, The Fair Tax Act of 2009.

STOP taxing the productivity of American businesses and the earnings, savings and investments of American workers! The Fair Tax would REPLACE income and corporate taxes with a tax collected at the point of retail sales - a CONSUMPTION tax. NO ONE would ever have to file another income tax return, and those who don't file a tax return (or an accurate return) now, i.e., drug dealers, illegal aliens, prostitutes, tax evaders, gamblers, etc., as CONSUMERS, would pay their fair share with purchases they make - along with the rest of us.

Think about it! The estimated $300 BILLION tax compliance costs would go away and Americans and American businesses would immediately have more spendable income and capital. What kind of stimulus do you think THAT would provide for our economy?

FAIR TAX NOW!!! http://www.FairTax.org

#1) Problem- Neo-CON Disconnect

Conservatives are a SAD LOT to watch nowadays, with their movement, mostly RESPONSIBLE for the MESS this country's currently in, standing on the sidelines like an unwanted dog. Looking for attention even if they look sillier with each remark they spew.

The big Neo-CON opposition to the stimulus bill coming from those mostly RESPONSIBLE for CREATING the monster.


The big Neo-CON opposition to the stimulus bill coming from the Senators who represent states that ALREADY RECEIVE MORE MONEY FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT THAN THEY PAY INTO THE TREASURY.


Example:
With the exception of Florida, most of the "Old South" is still MUCH poorer than most of the rest of the nation, and needs massive federal aid to SURVIVE economically.

====

Based on 2005 spending data from the Census Bureau's annual Consolidated Federal Funds Report, the Tax Foundation compared the federal tax burden in each state with the amount of federal spending in each state.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/press/show/22659.html

====

Maybe a SIMPLE provision stating any silly U.S. Senator against the stimulus bill for THEIR STATE, should just lose the funding from the bill for THEIR STATE.

WATCH HOW F-A-S-T IT PASSES THEN!

====

LoneRules

Have you actually READ that bill?

If not, then educate yourself before you blather on.

If you have read it, please explain to me how this stimulates the economy in the short run and economic stability in the future.


Big, BIG Problems With the Stimulus!
The world’s economy is in contraction and, therefore, the production of goods and services must realistically decrease as demand decreases. Productivity plunges and, most important, fewer tax dollars are collected. Common sense says that it is time for all to tighten their belts, most of all government. Let the primary orchestrators of this financial/economic disaster feel the wrath of citizens and the judicial system must punish appropriately. But in the long term, the commercial sector must rescue itself with minimal government intervention. Government initially created this mess with misguided policy and the financial sector created the unsustainable Ponzi scheme to the demise of all. So government is definitely NOT the answer to “rescue” the economy with future, unearned, tax dollars. Government must minimize interference and let the economy self-correct. The only worthwhile role for government at this time is to prevent outright fraud and theft (they are experts at perpetrating these two criminal acts) and punish serious wrong doing, especially amongst their own. This is the quickest remedy but it’s foolish to think it won’t be temporarily an uncomfortable, even painful ride. This is the reason wrong doing must be punished so this kind of national, now world, crisis does not repeat itself.

Stimulus Package pt 1
Adding funds to our infrastructure projects that have been included in this Bill. Didn’t the Democrats already use that argument by increasing our taxes on fuel? Our taxes on fuel were to be used to upgrade our roadways, bridges and the federal highway systems. So is this in addition to what they are getting from our federal fuel taxes? Knowing the Democratic mind it’s in addition to what they already take in. We need to look at how this money is spent and from what they are claiming to be open and transparent, they are not. Only 3.6% of the scheme’s $825 billion price tag would actually go to real, practical infrastructure projects--roads and bridges. What is transparent are their lies that are more open and transparent.

It looks more and more like pork products, whether it’s pork loin, Canadian bacon, Virginia Ham or bacon, they all clog your arteries just them same… it’s still pork. It’s all about the payback and promises made during this past election cycle to the Unions for voting Democratic.

Most of the other 96.4% would go to special interest pet projects, and to cramming years’ worth of radical policy changes into the single largest spending and debt scheme in history.

Even the Congressional Budget Office, the official scorekeeper of the economic impact of legislation, has said that it would, on balance, hurt the economy.

They will never understand the public’s outrage over all this spending that won’t solve anything. Their idea of throwing money at problems by not addressing the real issue is like throwing the baby out with the bath water. We all know how the liberals side with the baby, what’s one more thrown in the toilet.

democrat pork stimulation package
If a person earns $1500 per week and gives the government $350 in taxes this brings in tax revenues to the government. The government spends the revenues that somewhat helps certain areas of the economy. However, the economy does not expand because the government produces nothing that creates wealth. The economy of those industries that service the government, democrat lobbyist and other political industries, experience the stimulated growth and expansion, experiencing the majority of the "transfer of wealth."

If a person earns $1500 per week and gives the government $150 in taxes this lowers what the government brings in as revenues. But, the citizen, the individual takes home an extra $800 per month, each month, on a regular basis where he or she can make major and minor purschases with the extra $800. The individual can move into a larger home, buy a car and make the payments, buy a digital TV, go out to dinner, go to the movies, go on a vacation, etc. Each of these things are an economic transaction, increasing economic activity. Each economic activity is taxed. Each economic activity is facilitated by an employed worker. These additional workers earn income, which is taxed. These additional workers create their own economic activity. More economic activity requires more workers to handle the increased economic activity.

In the end more tax revenues flow to the government. Plus, the entire economy has expanded needing workers.

Lowering small business taxes makes it possible to hire more workers who pay income taxes and perform their own economic activity.

Therefore, why is Obama talking down our economy:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/0 2/05/AR2009020502766_pf.html

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090205/ap_on_go_pr_wh/congress _stimulus_126

http://www.usnews.com/articles/business/economy/2007/10/31/ the-long-boom-an-amazing-economic-expansion-turns-25.html

Stimulus Package pt 2
How is throwing more money at the Democratic stronghold non-bipartisan non-profit agency ACORN going to help create new job growth? They are supposed to be a non-profit agency and what is this government funds suppose to do? They already get millions from the democrats. Are they doing research in how to create more inventive ways on how to steal elections?

$4.19 billion in slush funds for ACORN, the left-wing advocacy group best known for allegations of voter fraud during the 2008 presidential campaign
- $600 million to buy brand new cars for government bureaucrats (Will they be hybrids?)
- $335 million for adult sex workshops (for what the overactive liberal libido? Barney Frank’s next boyfriend)
$150 million for honeybee insurance (WTF?)
- $2.8 billion for the US Department of Agriculture in a misdirected program more likely be spent to build unnecessary broadband internet services in urban areas than in the rural areas that lack the service. But of course the urban areas are filled with the poor downtrodden minorities because the rural areas are only filled with wealthy Republicans who believe in Country first and are general Caucasians who have money pouring out from every pore. The nonsense only continues for these idiots. It just seems everyone in Congress should have say in this Bill except the American public who will be paying the bills.

Under the auspices of a “Comparative Effectiveness Review,” the package heavily funds the first steps towards the socialization and government-mandated rationing of health care. And this is just one of many government power grabs being shoehorned into the so-called “Stimulus Package.” We all know how well socialism works in Europe, especially in France.

Stimulus Package pt 3
Then you have our Vice President claiming 70% of the Bill most likely will hurt the economy then help. So let’s all vote for it shall we. I think I like Biden better when he drank and danced in the corn fields singing the Villagers theme song.

I would tell the conservatives on this site to call and fax the three idiots who want to sign this Bill into law, Arlen Spector, Susan Collins and the other Senator from Maine, but unfortunately they have taken their phone off the hook so they don’t have to listen to the public outrage. I guess that’s their version of representing their constituents. My only hope is that all these idiots as well as the Democrats lose their jobs in the next election. But, like those before them they will be lured to work for the Washington Lobbyist firms to subject their former collogues to the least lobbying cause.

Let your voice be heard and sign the petition http://www.nostimulus.com/.

Hawkins Missed It!
Regardless of the problems above, and whether they are truths, half-truths or fiction, I can't imagine anyone voting for this package with the healthcare rules provisions included. If you thought Hillary was scary for wanting to control and ration healthcare, you should take a look at the link below. Daschle's version of socialized medicine makes hers look positively human!
If the Congress passes this provision, and the President signs it, we will have been duped beyond imagination, and the minor events leading to the Boston Tea Party will pale by comparison. I don't mind folks trying to legislate government healthcare, because I don't think they can pass it with fair debate. But doing it without debate or even broad public knowledge? That is despicable.
http://www.americasright.com/2009/02/yes-socialized-healthc are-stimulated-by.html

Number 7
The perceentage of money to be appropriated to "infrastructure projects" is paltry at best. The rest of it constitutes the world's largest Christmas tree, laden with porcine ornaments. Even if every dollar in the bill were to be spent on construction projects, a prospect whose likeliehood of happening is equal to Barney Frank going straight, such spending only makes work, not create permanent jobs. i.e. when the project is finished, all of the workers are laid off. Jobs, on the other hand have much longer duration.

Community-based HealthCare
After a visit to the ACORN Community HealthCare doctor this government letter was sent out:

"A review of your healthcare records, your age, current health status, the medical diagnosis, cost of health stabilization and your political party affiliation and voting records indicate the Department of National HealthCare is throwing good money after bad. Therefore, your medical case is being closed and healthcare services are being suspended until further notice. After 90 days from the time of this communication if your condition has not changed members of the ACORN 'Assisted Suicide Program' will make a house call to see if you wish to avail their services.

However, in the event your political party affiliation has changed since the last review of your healthcare voting records, the decision to discontinue your healthcare could be reversed.

Thank You,
Your Excellent and Honorable Leader
Barack Hussein Obama"

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601039&refer=colum nist_mccaughey&sid=aLzfDxfbwhzs

Irisheyes, Moonbat, etc.
Actually most of the money is going to payoffs to leaders of groups who helped get the Democrats into power. Acorn, UAW, other unions, etc. There isn't any stimulus except to these individuals. There isn't even much in the way of pet projects funded here. It is payoff, strict and simple. The REAL problem is that they are setting up a precedent to do the same after every election in the future, regardless of who wins. Just think, all you would have to do is make a large donation to the party of your choice (why take a chance? Give to BOTH parties!). Then you get back a hundred fold after they are in power. The more you give, the more you get. And if anyone objects, just call it a stimulus package.

Ruth - $43 billion for Infrastructure
Let's look at those numbers again

$43 billion for transportation projects

Includes
$30 b for highway and bridge construction/repair;
$12 b for mass transit (
Incl. $7.5b to buy transit equip.;
$10 billion in rail and mass
transit projects).

So, is it $12b for mass transit or $10b for rail and mass transit?

$31 billion to build/repair fed bldgs and other public infrastructure;

$19 billion in water projects;

The numbers don't add up. If it's $43 billion for infrastructure then the amounts under it ought to add up to $43b, not either $54billion or $47.5 billion, depending on which numbers you put together.

I don't necessarily disagree with infrastructure develop to stimulate the economy, but I think the numbers should make sense and yours don't.

Ruth - Education
$41 billion in grants to local school districts; (for?????)

$79 billion in state fiscal relief to prevent cuts in state aid; (What does state aid have to do with education; we're talking welfare -- parents not taking care of their children -- not education)

$21 billion for school modernization; (Please don't modernize anymore schools in my area; everytime you do our SAT scores take a nosedive).

$16 billion to boost the maximum Pell Grant by $500 to $5,350; (thus raising the tuition of all students and making it unaffordable for young people who aren't poor to go to college).

$2 billion for Head Start.

So, that's $159 billion dollars for something that won't stimulate the country for from four to 25 years. Does anyone else see a problem with this?

Ruth - e stimulus and law enforcement
e stimulus bill- (Does the internet need stimulating? I'm thinking it's doing fine all on its own. Somebody show me where the Internet is having problems, please.)

Law enforcement - $4 billion in grants to state and local law enforcement to hire officers and purchase equipment. (To hire officers to -- what? We have an officer who is on full-time duty stopping people giving them a $70 ticket for not wearing their seatbelts. That was a grant my city got from the feds. Yeah, it's really great to see all those law-breakers being busted. Meanwhile, if your home is burglarized in Interior Alaska, don't expect to get anything back because the police won't even investigate. They say they don't have the man power or resources. I guess they're too busy stopping people for not wearing their seat belts).

Ruth - taxes
TAXES-Individuals-$500 per-worker, $1,000 per-couple tax cut for two years, costing about $145 billion. (This is not a tax CUT; it's a tax rebate. We've already seen how poorly these work. People either save them or spend them on junk. It doesn't stimulate the economy because it's "free" money).


Workers could expect to see about $20 a week less withheld from their paychecks starting in June. ($20? Wow! Let's see -- my gasoline bill has gone up more than that in the last two years. My food budget has gone up $50 a week in the last year. That's just two points and $70. How about you cut my tax rate by 10%. THAT'S A TAX RATE REDUCTION. Make it so I can count on it for 10 years and now I'm free to invest my savings in whatever I want).

Millions of Americans who don't make enough money to pay federal income taxes could file returns next year and receive checks. (And how is that a GOOD thing??? People who do not pay taxes now get money -- what many of us call welfare -- back. And what will they do with that money? Go out and spend it on cigarettes and booze or pot and stimulate -- well, not the economy).
more-

Stimulus Death
There is a great visual diagram of where the stimulus is going to be spent over at Left Right News http://www.leftrightnews.com.

It scares the crap out of me what we are doing to future generations of Americans.

Tax Cuts versus Rebates
Getting a check in the mail from the government is welfare, not a tax cut. If you send me $500 tomorrow, I got spend it on my electric bill or to buy a new digital TV. I don't invest it in anything because, frankly, it's too small and I expect not to see that money again.

Cut my tax rate by 10%, however, and every month I have a little bit extra in my paycheck and I maybe save it. Well, being me, I'll save it. When I get enough to it together, I'll invest it in something. I'm not a very entreprenurial person, so I'll probably invest it in my friend Jon's company because I know Jon will make a profit with it and give me back a dividend. If Jon's tax rates are cut, he's going to invest that saved money in his business and my dividend is going to go up and he's maybe going to rehire the two workers he left go last month in anticipation of higher taxes and lowered profits. Lower his taxes, you raise his profits, and he invests the savings because investment is what grows his business.

Tax REBATES do not work and never have. Long-term tax cuts DO and have worked many times in the past. The boom economy Reagan set off is proof, but there are other examples -- Ireland, for example.

Porkulus, the best democrat legislation
http://www.smm.org/buzz/image/a_new_giant_feral_pig

Un Fkn Believable...
"In other words, all hyperbole aside, this may very well be the single least effective, most wasteful, most costly piece of legislation in all of recorded human history"

No surprise there... we have a President that quite literally has no clue what he's doing and a Sentate/House that is equally as clueless... even scarier is that more than half the idiotic country voted this bafoon into office.

I'll be looking up to God for help on this one.

Hawkins (and Matt)
Taking economic advice from John Hawkins is like having your car repaired by a blind four-year-old with down syndrome. No offense to blind four-year-olds with down syndrome.

"No surprise there... we have a President that quite literally has no clue what he's doing and a Sentate/House that is equally as clueless... even scarier is that more than half the idiotic country voted this bafoon into office."

So everyone elected is "literally" clueless and half the country are bafoons? Have you always hated America this much?

"I'll be looking up to God for help on this one."

Yeah, there are some pretty ignorant folks in the Mideast who have the same mindset.

To you and whose army
The "advice" Hawkins presents is sourced from people you don't want to know anything about. These are the folks who can call it like it is, not what folks like you HOPE it will be.

You must have a "chill running up your leg"...

Woody from Iowa

Now boarding: the Oblivion Express
Well I hope all those who voted for the Messiah are happy after finally hearing from him last night. We are screwed now, we have a guy who thinks he is President with no clue and who is trying to play the part, but he is not very convincing. This next 4 Years is going to make a lot of people pine for the old days of George W Bush and I suspect that will go for a lot of Liberals too, after the obama is done with his Socialist plans.

flake obama
remember, before the election obama was going to increase taxes on the rich then all our problems were going to go away. this partisan, gloom and doomer is nothing but a slick B.S. artist

Problems
Krowing all the econonic problems this so called stimulus package is certain to create.Just wait and see what Obama is going to do to the morals of this country.

Old Hussein-O had
a PACKAGE ...

E-I-E-I-OHHHH!

And in his package he had some PORK ...

E-I-E-I-OHHHHH!

With some pork-pork here ...

and some pork-pork there ....

here's some pork ...

there's some pork ...

everywhere there's more pork ...

Old HUSSEIN-O

HAD A PACKAGE ...

E-I-E-I-OHHHHHHHHHH!

The intellectual bankruptcy of the left
The left is using concepts like "stimulus," "create," and "work" without having any clear understanding of what these things mean.

Keynesian spending cannot "stimulate," because to stimulate means to rouse to heightened action or to invigorate. A spending program creates temporary make-work projects, not lasting industries or businesses. They dissolve when the cash flow stops (except for the most successful parasites, who can continue to lobby for funds for more make-pork projects).

Keynesian spending cannot "create" jobs, because to create in this context means to add. It does not add jobs. It creates make-work at the expense of the creation of real jobs, with a net loss of jobs over the long term.

When you take money away from the private sector to Keynesian-spend it, you are putting the money through a grinder that shaves a portion of that wealth off and destroys it. It does not create wealth; it destroys it and leaves hollow activity in its place. Therefore, it does not "work." That is in the nature of Keynesian spending. This is classical economics and historical reality.

Keynesianism is a lie, and it is about time economists started being more forthcoming in their opposition to this fraud.

You and Whose Army
Ever been in the Army or any other Branch of the Military?? I'm one of those "mideastern" dolts who don't agree with U in the least..I'll give Obama the benefit of doubt and concede he is very intelligent..Hoping U HAVE been in the military, putting this guy in charge of the country is about like putting a brand new 2nd Lt on *Point* in an Infantry Sweep or in the Left seat of an AC130 Gunship..Aint NEVER GONNA WORK!! Dream on!!

Hidden in Stimulus Bill

HEALTH CARE RATIONING! You all need to read this new article by the former Lt. Gov. of New York, Betsy McCaughey.


http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601039&refer=colum nist_mccaughey&sid=aLzfDxfbwhzs

This is truly frightening. Now we know why Obama wanted Daschle for HHS Secretary so badly.

OBAMA'S TRANSPARENCY
The Obama and gang know how important this Stimulus Bill is to America and the majority of Americans are paying attention to it's contents.
Obama knows that because he went to Indiana and Florida to sell it to the folks. In his townhall meetings he answered all questions in generalities, no specifics as he did in the press conference. He is a well trained attorney who can confuse any question to him with a long answer of nonsense.

HOWEVER, his promise of a transparent government is a direct lie to the American people. He does not want the American people to know all of the details because we would see all of the pork and useless spending in it. That is the main reason he is so anxious to put it through so quickly. That is the reason that Pelosi and other Democrats wrote the bill behind closed doors, with no Republican imput. Bits and pieces of this bill has leaked out to the public a little at a time. The more the public knows about it the less they like it. Thus the sales job he's trying to do.

Obama will be held accountable, not for this bill, but for all of the lies to the American people.

It is so sad that this country now has a lying manipulater as our President. My heart is filled with dread for our America.




Bet anyone?
That they create a new committee "to review and recommend for restructure" the money allocation in...6 months? Less than a year?

Side bet, Nancy Pelosi has a lot to do with it.

Stimulating The Wealthy
The only people who are being stimulated are the wealthy and the connected and those jetting about such as President Obama and Nancy Pelosi and Al Gore on taxpayer's money in luxury. Have the American people gone mad? Why would the U.S. Congress bankrupt us along with the banks then continue to print trillions unless they wanted to bring a nation to its knees in the long term because even if it worked in the short term - it's not payable and they'll claim they need trillions more - and nationalized healthcare - and more laws to put more people in jails - and more euthanasia for elderly, sick, and depressed - and more abortions because only the chosen ones can live - and the elimination of 50% of the population - appears to be on the minds of those behind the veil of secrecy, I do say, my dear friends, it is not a very pretty picture - especially for the have nots which is most of us.

Don Juan...
Stop being so partisan! Didn't you get the memo? Its all bi-partisan from here on out. You don't get to be an egghead anymore...

Obama doesn't get points for "trying", and he doesn't get to "practice" with our future. You do however get to own his mistakes beacuse of his unparalleled bad judgement and your support of it.

You also get to own the ire of your fellow citizens for your own personal stupidity.

Don Juan....
"The problem with the private sector is that the normal market mechanisms break down"

What actually happened is:
1. Political correctness was injected into the mortgage industry via CRA & banking regulation with the enthusiastic support of Rep. Frank, Sen. Schumer, et al;
2. The toxin was spread thruout the financial system via bundled mortagages thru gov't sponsored entities, Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac;
3. The Pork-zilla Bill (aka "stimulus") will leverage the financial catastrophe thru the entire economy, for years to come.

"We saw what happened when government does nothing during the Hoover administration."

Reality: Hoover did big gov't spending, then FDR did gargantuan gov't spending. Result: a decade of Depression. Bush did big gov't spending; O is doing gargantuan gov't spending. Result: ...you fill in the blank.

"At least, Obama is trying to do something -- Teddy Roosevelt observes:..."

If you would read a bio of TR, you find he DID things. BHO stayed comfortably within the confines of a world in which appearance is king. He's only ever run political campaigns; the very 1st competitive campaign was the one that put him in the Oval Office.

The drunks now have the keys to the liquor store. They're going to drink the place dry. And, our kids will spend decades suffering with their hangover.

Regards,

Poor Don Juan
He points to the failure George Bush as if that is his example of conservative. George did two things right; 1) tax cuts, and 2) recognized the enemy, Muslim terrorism. After that he became the best reason people would vote for Obama by being just like him. When people realize they have voted in the worst of Bush and multiplied the liberal left traits by 2Million, it will be too late. Fellow Marxists, I would like to thank people like Don Juan and George Bush and John McCain for the end of America and the beginning of the Communist States of America. Donnie, George wasn't a shining example of what Republicans are supposed to be, he was the sublime precursor to Karl the Marx Obama. Republican conservatives are all waiting for the party to sort it out, get rid of the liberals, RINOs and Neo-CONS so that we can reclaim the Republican Party and reinstitute principle in a country nearly devoid of it. Stimulus has never worked, we don't even know where most of the money is going to go, and this one won't work either. Republicans have finally seen that they don't have to take the blame for Democrat hair-brain schemes by buying into "bi-partisanship." Maybe they will keep their wits about them until we can straighten out this horrible twist of history. I hope you like the Jimmy Carter inflation that is bearing down on us at light speed.
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