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Tuesday, February 03, 2009
John Hawkins :: Townhall.com Columnist
Why the Liberal View of Government is Wrong
by John Hawkins
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Liberals view the government as a force for good that should be used at every possible opportunity to reorder people's lives. This is an outgrowth of the liberal belief that most people are stupid and unable to ascertain what's in their own best interests without the intercession of their superiors (liberals) to show them what's best. That makes government extraordinarily handy to liberals because they can use the power of government to force people to give up their money, force people to do things they don't want to do, and to try to reshape society into the utopian vision they have of how the world should work.

On the other hand, conservatives view the government as a necessary evil that should generally be used as sparingly, judiciously, and reluctantly as possible. This is not because conservatives believe people are angels, but because we believe Adam Smith was correct when he said, "It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest."

Furthermore, the conservative view says that the government is slow, inefficient, inordinately expensive, error-prone, and as likely as not to create problems worse than the ones it tries to solve with its bungling efforts. Hence Ronald Reagan's classic line, "The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"

These contrasting views have a great deal to do with why liberals and conservatives seldom see eye-to-eye on a policy issue.

A liberal looks at the potential good he believes can come from forcing a business owner to comply with a new regulation and supports it. A conservative worries about the cost of the regulation, the unintended effects, and the cumulative expense and time of many regulations and opposes adding yet another burden on a small business owner's shoulders.

A liberal loves the idea of forcing businesses to pay workers more than what they're worth through the minimum wage. Conservatives see the minimum wage as more meddling in the free market that will have negative consequences. If you force the business owner to overpay, he will surely change his behavior as a response. Maybe he'll hire less people. Maybe he'll have less money to spend on equipment. Maybe he won't be able to give out Christmas bonuses to his best performing employees. Whatever the case may be, assuming a politician in DC can micromanage the salaries of a business owner better than he can seems to be incredibly arrogant.

A liberal looks at a failing business, usually one that has given quite a bit of money to liberal politicians, and wants to play the hero by "bailing out" that company with taxpayer money. That politician is making a determination that he is wiser than the market and can better decide whether a particular business should remain open. A conservative looks at the same company and declines to bail it out on the grounds that if it were a viable business over the long-haul, some private company would have already loaned it the money it needs. Furthermore, when a company goes out of business, its more successful competitors can then swoop in, buy up its assets, and put those resources to better use.

Examples like these could fill a dozen books, but they all come down to a collision between two world views: is government a necessary evil or is government a force for good?

Quite frankly, there are mountains of evidence for the former proposition while most of the evidence for the latter proposition hinges on only looking at half the equation.

Just to name perhaps the two most prominent examples for the "government is a force for good" way of thinking: Social Security and Medicare are certainly popular government programs, so popular in fact, that few conservatives would be willing to support ending them. However, the financial strain being created by those two programs is on track to bankrupt our country in the next 20-30 years. If that turns out to be the case, then all the good done by those programs will be very small indeed compared to the cataclysmic damage that they'll do to our nation. Now, is it possible that those horrifying consequences won't come to pass? Certainly, but the nation will have to be practically sliding into the abyss for the politicians in DC to risk seriously tampering with those programs. Thus we cannot, and should not, ignore the tremendous harm that even wildly popular government programs can potentially do to our country.

On the other hand, the best evidence for the "government is a necessary evil" school of thought is that almost every extremely serious problem our country has dealt with in the last 75 years has had at its root, actions taken by the government.

The Depression? It was an economic downturn turned into a lingering disaster by the government policies designed to fix it. Gas lines during the Carter years? That was caused by government price controls. Staggering out-of-wedlock birth rates? Welfare and no-fault divorce laws created that issue. A flood of illegal aliens? The government failed to secure the border and deliberately refused to enforce the laws. The mortgage crisis? The government forced businesses to give loans to bad risks. The deficit? The government spends too much year after year after year. It goes on and on, but you ALWAYS, ALWAYS, find government actions at trouble's core.

So, how does the government get by with this? By pointing out the good a policy does, or more often than not, the potential good it can do, while studiously ignoring the costs. As Thomas Sowell is wont to say,

"Killing the goose that lays the golden eggs...is a viable political strategy, so long as the goose doesn't die before the next election and politicians can avoid leaving their fingerprints on the weapon."

That's not to say that we should NEVER rely on government. If that were the case, it would simply be called an "evil," not a "necessary evil." Sometimes there are tasks that the government is best suited to take on: defending our nation, delivering mail, building and maintaining roads, regulating industries, breaking up monopolies, etc.

But even in these limited areas, the government often does a poor job. We have bridges falling down because of poor maintenance. Our government does a mediocre job of securing our borders. The customer service at the post office, DMV, IRS and other government agencies is often poor, and regulations are often written to benefit companies that give the most campaign contributions to the government.

There's a lesson there for those that are willing to hear it. Whenever someone claims that government is the answer, your antenna should go up, you should make sure your wallet is safely secured, and you should evaluate every statement that person makes as if it were made by a professional con artist serving twenty years in a federal penitentiary. Then, and only then, are you ready to decide if the government should become further enmeshed in the lives of Americans.

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John Hawkins is a professional blogger who runs Right Wing News, Linkiest, and Viral Footage.
 
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opinions (cont)

Who gave us a 700+ billion bailout just before the election (Hint the republicans lost control of congress in 2006). Blaming bush is illogical. He only proposes policy. The House and Senate pass laws. Unlike the confusion over what actually caused the housing crisis it is pretty clear that either the house or senate or both could have stopped that bailout.


Who booed and hissed at Jimmy Carter at Regan's inauguration. Who booed and hissed at GW Bush?

As I listened to those around me in the weeks before the election the vast majority ridiculed GW Bush. Every one of them were self identified as Democrat or Liberal.

opinions.
Jeffery writes:
"Honestly, don't you conservatives ever tire of hating liberals as an avocation? "

As an observer (Being neither Democrat nor Republican) I see a lot of hate. A lot of it seems to come from those who call themselves democrats.
I also observe that those who call themselves democrats are much more likely to use ad hominem attacks in their debates.

Jeffery even did it. "Another worthless rant from the "right." Seriously, ".

"Worthless rant" Not "opinion without merit"
"Seriously," As though to imply that the opinion was not at all serious.

Jeffery mentioned that American conservative governments seem just as ready to increase the size of government, and use government to achieve certain goals. (Note there was no ad hominem attack in that sentence.)

Indeed this is why the Republican party is in such poor shape. But is it conservatives or republicans doing the damage? And is it necessarily even republicans?

Who gave us the housing crisis?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmcGKbvTLSM

Not everyone agrees btw
http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=did_liberals_ca use_the_subprime_crisis
The article starts out with an ad hominem attack. "The idea started on the outer precincts of the right."

Note the use of the word "outer" to imply far out or fringe of the "right".

Worthless
Seems to me that if there is "worthless rant" being spewed here, it is coming from your "pen", and not from the "right." However, leave it to a liberal to do anything to turn the blame around to the conservative! Case in point, bailing out the banking and insurance industries. Certainly not aploy by anyone other than his higness Reid and her highness Pelosi. Also, who has fought the securing of our borders from run-away illegal immigrants? And who has done nothing short of treason when granting amnesty to millions of these illegal immigrants on one hand while doling out millions of dollars in freebies to them, just to win elections? Sorry Jeffrey, you're howling at the wrong moon!

Worthless
Another worthless rant from the "right." Seriously, what's the payoff for living in your paranoiac, hate-filled world, conservatives? And since American conservative governments seem just as ready to increase the size of government, and use government to achieve certain goals, what's the point of this article?

Honestly, don't you conservatives ever tire of hating liberals as an avocation?

roy
Thanks for your post. This man who was killed worked in the woodyard at a huge paper mill. He fell,they think ,and a crane ran over him. I was told it cut him in half.

Even though industrial accidents don't happen very often,they are usually terrible when they do because of such dangerous machinery.Do you still do that kind of work?


No, libs are allergic to conscience
Standshisground wrote:
"When I heard Daschle withdrew his name, my first thought was, "WHY?!" What did Daschle do that's considered so terrible for, and to, a LIBERAL? If evading taxes for several years wasn't considered an unforgivable sin by the libs for a man who was going to have charge over the IRS, Tim Geithner, than why in liberal eyes would the same issue render a man unfit to be head of HHS? … Are liberals actually starting to develop the first stirrings of a CONSCIENCE?"

No, Standshisground, THEY ARE NOT.

I believe that Daschle withdrew from the nomination upon the demand of the Obama administration. They know they cannot afford the embarrassment: If they let Daschle the Tax Cheat go, it will only shine a perennial spotlight on Geithner the Tax Cheat -- the Genius and Savior of the U.S. economy.

With this many tax cheats bringing scrutiny on the Obama administration, it would only become more difficult for Obama and the Dummy-Crats to raise taxes and enforce a confiscatory, extortionary (read "thieving") tax system.

Obama has already snuck Geithner past the security guards, but he dared not try that again with Daschle, so Daschle had to go, or the statist-collectivist jig would be up.

It has nothing to do with conscience, and everything to do with the same-old, business-as-usual, politics of cynicism -- only with a change-you-can-believe-in twist.


rowly
when i was 18 and had my first real job i saw a guy fall 70 feet and get killed on a construction site i was working on. even though this guy wasn't family it shook me up pretty bad. i still think about it occasionally even 30 years later so i understand somewhat where you are coming from.

the nature of government
Wendy Writes:
"Rethinking the role of government
The widespread view amongst conversatives that government is a "necessary evil" is an albatross hanging around our necks."

Government is not evil. Government is force. Like fire. And just as dangerous if not contained.

(Actual quote from GW is
"Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. "

http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/g/georgewash118164 .html

To all...

The Rat will check back later to refute any rebuttals.


Summers
Reply # 15
Date: Feb 3, 2009 - 10:23 PM EST

I agree with you. Democrats rarely go after their own party. Conservatives such as Palin will go after her own party and keep strong to her values, which usually brings the Liberals to an amount of anger and hatred. The stimulus pork bill is an example. Pure partisan filth. As I see the bill it's what Pelosi and Obama want, but the Repubs and even some democrats voted against it. If people actually read the bill they'd realize who Obama really cares about.

Roy in WV...

Roy
Location: WV
Reply # 355
Date: Feb 3, 2009 - 11:04 PM EST Ratas_IN
Been a LONG time since I've been exposed to "ShimpaI Nai" (sp) Japan was my first overseas venture in '55 (Komaki)--That phrase was almost like the "f" word.. By the time the GIs got thru *Bast@rdizing*it, we used it to mean everything from "NoSweat" "Don't Worry About It" etc..
Summers is being too hard on Daschle..He really didn;t know he had to pay taxes on the perks!!
CHEERS

~~~

Roy in WV, Watashi no tomadachi, ( My friend )

The true phrase was a kindness, but was bastardized over time.

Service? I am ex navy. I guess by your service time, you are about 6-7 years my senior. Not sure about Komaki, guessing Air Force.

I became involved with a facinating culture, and learned to read, Katakana and Hiragana, the two Japanese ideographs. I never bothered with Kanji, as it had many thousands of symbols

I could go into any restaurant, read the Japanese menu, order food, correctly pronounce the words, and know exactly what I would get. Great fun.

Food? I have eaten most every food common over there, but never tried the 'death dish'. Fugu, AKA, Blow fish, ( Puffer ) poorly prepared, is DEATH. Too risky.

Whale, raw fish, raw octopus, raw sqiud, miso ( a soup ), most of it was very tasty.

Hey, what's the weather like over there ?



Denise
Thanks for the info about Shreveport.

When Garbage Is Trashtalk
Yes, Wendy, not all government is intrinsically evil, but corruption is endless.

When you wrote about governmental services, I had to think of the New Orleans City Council. Today, verbal warfare broke out in the Council Chambers over garbage collection. One member decried the cut in services and the other fought for higher fees for his corrupt crony, whose predecessor is going to jail.

At least, we took the aluminum foil off of Dollar Bill's Eggo box before we threw it the government-run trash can. I hope that we can do the same with Stimu-side Liberal Economics.

This whole country is going insane.

1) Sorus Rules Make Alinsky Look Proud. See, his opinion on abolishing our borders.

2) 8 New Babies Born To Mother So That She Can Get A T.V. Show.

3) Classfare By Tax Cheats.

4) I could go on, but no one seems to be listening in DC

Summers
I knew you would understand. I did not know the man personally,but his sister and brother-in-law are in my Sunday School class at church. Thanks... and take care.

Denise YOU RAT !

Denise
Location: LA
Reply # 349
Date: Feb 3, 2009 - 10:38 PM EST Lost In "Dial-Up Translation, Rat?
Denise, Please go back to the Murchison column, check the time-date stamps and read my reply. SAME TO YOU.

YOU HAVE ALWAYS BEEN ON MY 'AR' LIST !!! DITTO.

I have, I thought, made this clear, before. YOU'VE GOT SOME CLEAR HERE.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Rat cannot 'give a nod' to someone, two hours after he left the building. ARE YOU RELATED TO ELVIS? :)

I was NOT born in Kenya, although I have been there. It sux! IT SUCKS, BUT, AT LEAST, YOU DID GET OUT OF THE HUT, WHICH IS UNLIKE GEORGE OBAMA.

This Olde Ratte loves your posts, and will not skip one, if I see it. LUVIN' YA, TOO!

'Nother thing. You wanna whack rodents, DO IT TO 'EM ! Myself, of course, excepted. WILL DO.

~~~

One last thing ... Kudos to you all, and I love you all for what you are: A Credit to Humanity. AS ARE YOU.

Okay! Enough with our mutual slobberfest because even Hal is falling off his barstool laughing.



~~~

OUCH. OUCH. OUCH.

'da slow olde Ratte, jist kawt on. Denise wuz pullin his tail. OUCH!



Hey ! I AM slow, but I'm not very good!


OK. Good one. You got me.

Please do not do this again, or I will have a REDD FOXX moment...

'It's the big one. Elizabeth, I'm coming to meet you...


Criminy ! Those subtle spoofs are killers !



Continued..
..."The dictum that all men are entitled to a more abundant life without regard to their willingness to strive for it,without the self-discipline of learning how to use it,destroys all sense of realism and works toward a disintegration of national character,which is rapidly becoming tragic."

Back to the Subject!
Just want to interrupt and share what another great thinker had to say on the subject of "government stimulus"(Well,except "stimulus isn't quite the word I'd use,but you get my drift!) "Among scores of enterprises looking toward amelioration of economic distress,little attempt has been made to develop any sense of moral obligation in the minds of recipients to build up their own moral stamina,or to endure any measure of hardship as an aid to recovery of society as a whole.....to be continued...

Rethinking the role of government
The widespread view amongst conversatives that government is a "necessary evil" is an albatross hanging around our necks. Government is not intrinsically "evil"--necessary or otherwise. A government is simply a body to whom the monopoly on force has been delegated. The purpose of this monopoly on force is the protection of individual rights. Do not confuse individual cases of incompetence or corruption with the principle itself: Government is necessary for the protect individual rights. It does so by means of the military, police, and law courts. These functions preserve the rights of Americans from those who would violate them.

When government steps outside these roles, it acts as a destroyer, violating the rights of individuals.

We can then analyze the functions which you think "the government is best suited to take on:"
--Defending our nation. Check. This prevents the violation of our rights by foreign invaders.
--Delivering mail. No. This is not a proper function of government.
--Building and maintaining roads. No. This is not a proper function of government.
--Regulating industries, breaking up monopolies, etc. No, no, no! Regulation is not the same thing as laws. Laws prohibit force or fraud in the marketplace. Regulations prohibit legitimate activity on the premise that such activity could be co-opted by criminals. Regulations are a violation of individual rights. And government most definitely should not be breaking up "monopolies!" Monopoly-busting is an egregious violation of the rights of businessmen. It is based on a false worldview, that economic power is the same thing as political power. It is not. Companies do not violate your rights by doing business, even if they are the only ones doing a certain kind of business. The government should have no say whatsoever on the make-up of the marketplace (with certain limited exceptions involving defense contractors).

Tickle those rats!!
We had to use a frequency shifter to bring their vocal range down to human hearing, but if you tickle a rat they make a sound not unlike a baby's giggle!

Being nocturnal they are great companions for those who work nights. The also love to snooze inside your sweatshirt by day after a good snack and a little playtime. They are also more fastidious than most libs being easily trained to the litter box.

Check YouTube. One of the most popular vids is one of a cat that raised two rats as its own and is now constantly followed by and fawned over by her "babies".

-Ray
NRA Life Member
Soli Deo Gloria!!

Ratas_IN
Been a LONG time since I've been exposed to "ShimpaI Nai" (sp) Japan was my first overseas venture in '55 (Komaki)--That phrase was almost like the "f" word.. By the time the GIs got thru *Bast@rdizing*it, we used it to mean everything from "NoSweat" "Don't Worry About It" etc..
Summers is being too hard on Daschle..He really didn;t know he had to pay taxes on the perks!!
CHEERS

Oh, Rowly,
I do know how hard that is and my heart goes out to you for the shock and memories it brings and the sadness to the other family.

I meant your grandson and caught my error just as I hit 'submit'! Hate it when that happens!

Wrat Wrangler

Wrat Wrangler
Location: NY
Reply # 336
Date: Feb 3, 2009 - 9:49 PM EST Rats v. Mice:
I have to deal with about 90,000 mice and about 1,200 rats in the research facility where I work. Not all of them we have over 40 techs. I have learned that I much prefer the company of rats to mice.

Rats are lovable and sociable critters capable of affection and quite clever. They learn their names and learn to recognize the people who treat them best. If you hold one on you arm it will tuck its head under your elbow in a show of trust.

Mice on the other hand bite everything that moves and show NO appreciation of anything you do for them. Much like liberals and their wards of the state.

-Ray
NRA Life Member
Soli Deo Gloria!!

~~~

Vive La Rattus Americansis !

We Rats ARE lovable !

Rats also love to crawl around inside human clothing, and are very lovable. They also seem to enjoy pleasing their host, by affectionate nosings, lickings to tickle
( OK they might just want the salt ), and just are generally more intelligent than any liberal.

Intelligent? Rats are now working crossword puzzles. Mazes are so, soo passe.

Thank you, kind Scientist for the affirmation!

I first learned this, back in about 1950~1951.

After all other species are gone, Rats and cockroackes will still be here. After all, Rats have to eat also.



Rowly
Thanks for your kind remarks.

As for "Where In The LA" is concerned, Shrevesport is considered part of TX in The Cesspool. I'm afraid that S-port would cheer for the Cowboys over the 'Aints, anyday.


No Taxation With Current Representation.

Of honeybees & Son of Porkzilla!!
American honeybees are in a bad way!! Near my cousin's in CT her Temple has a congregant who raises LOTS of bees. I guess nobody raises a few bees but I digress. He tithes a jar of honey to each member of the congregation on one of the Jewish holidays and supplys the Temple with a case for use in tea and whatever.

He's having problem with some microscopic mites that get into the bees' lungs and choke them to death. I think the Australian ones and hybrids with them are less susceptible. I would hate to give up honey on corn bread.

-Ray
NRA Life Member
Soli Deo Gloria!!

Summers
Thanks. It is my grandson. He has been there since before Christmas. He comes to Augusta every other weekend. He is making a good salary,but I know he would rather be home. He has a year old baby.

I am also glad to see Daschle go. It must have been so much worse than we know, or he would still be there. Probably the tip of the iceberg.

A man was killed Saturday at the plant in Augusta where my son worked for several years before he was killed at another plant. It has brought it all back and I know you understand.

Lost In "Dial-Up Translation, Rat?
Denise, Please go back to the Murchison column, check the time-date stamps and read my reply. SAME TO YOU.

YOU HAVE ALWAYS BEEN ON MY 'AR' LIST !!! DITTO.

I have, I thought, made this clear, before. YOU'VE GOT SOME CLEAR HERE.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Rat cannot 'give a nod' to someone, two hours after he left the building. ARE YOU RELATED TO ELVIS? :)

I was NOT born in Kenya, although I have been there. It sux! IT SUCKS, BUT, AT LEAST, YOU DID GET OUT OF THE HUT, WHICH IS UNLIKE GEORGE OBAMA.

This Olde Ratte loves your posts, and will not skip one, if I see it. LUVIN' YA, TOO!

'Nother thing. You wanna whack rodents, DO IT TO 'EM ! Myself, of course, excepted. WILL DO.

~~~

One last thing ... Kudos to you all, and I love you all for what you are: A Credit to Humanity. AS ARE YOU.

Okay! Enough with our mutual slobberfest because even Hal is falling off his barstool laughing.

Rowly,
Your son is in the northwest part of La. near the Texas border. I am far south and to the east of him, just under the Mississippi border.

As to the demise of Daschle, again, at least it is good riddance to one more scum bag. I am grateful to each one that disappears from government. I should have figured the creep didn't go back to North Dakota. I doubt he remembers where it is.

Wrat Wrangler
Yesterday I questioned Hal as to why honeybee insurance is included in the Mother-of-all-giveaway-package. He wrote a reply that went to length to explain how honeybees are imported from Australia, yada, yada, etc. Today, Evan Bayh said parts of the giveaway were of no value for the economy, such as the 'stupid' honeybee insurance. I brought it to Hal's attention; and, he has yet to admit the stupidity of it. Bayh said it wouldn't do anything to boost the economy. Even when the Dim leaders admit, though only once a century, a dumb move, Hal and the trolls here will never admit it.

During Bush's presidency and during the primaries, I posted and read conservative criticism of Bush and the GOP. However, the Dims never criticize anyone except a GOP member and/or a conservative. It is amazing that those people are either so ignorant or so blinded by hatred that they cannot be realistic.

Charlie Rangel evaded his patriotic duty by evading his taxes. When it became public, he paid only the taxes but no interest or penalties. If he had been a Republican we would hear no end of it. Their own double standards and lying are of no importance to the Dims.

Ratas,The Master Spoofer
Thank you ,Kind Rat. I read your posts to Denise and Summers earlier.

One of my grandsons is working in Shreveport at some kind of industrial plant for a few weeks.He is an electrician.

I don't know how close it is to where those two Southern belles are living. I need to look at a map.

It is cold as a well diggers behind here. Global warming is killing me. I hate winter,anyway. You are supposed to get about ten feet of snow,aren't you? Take care.


WE don't circle the wagons!!
The Dems protect their embarassing miscreants. We burn ours at the public stake and get no traction for it.

-Ray
NRA Life Member
Soli Deo Gloria!!

Their essential flaw
is that libs go through life convinced that they are the smartest people in ANY room!! I have seen the Wizards of Smart (LBJ, Carter and that soulless troll McNamara) convince the world that THEY had a direct line to ultimate understanding and screw up everything they ever touched.

Robert McNamara deserves a special place in Tartarus. He not only helped micromanage and expand the Vietnam War, he took one of the only two American two seaters and debauched it for a few percentage points of sales volume.

When the T-Bird debuted it was the first time that Ford outsold GM!! Of couse he had NO sense of what people buy a car like that for so he told the designers to make it a four-seater in the belief that more people buy them than roadsters.

What sack of excrement.

-Ray
NRA Life Member
Soli Deo Gloria!!

Rowly...

Rowly
Location: GA
Reply # 325
Date: Feb 3, 2009 - 9:17 PM EST ....Of Limo's And Lemons....

Daschle has mercifully withdrawn his nomination. I don't know why. He is no worse than the rest of the bloody crooks in the administration.

Government officials were at one time in our lifetimes,if not clean....at least cleaner. Now,there is no oversight of them. Look at the crooks holding office at present.

The only congress people who must leave office when they are caught with their hand in the cookie jar is Republicans.

Democrats would love to purge congress of ALL their opposition. So if one has even a HINT of wrongdoing,they are dogged until the are history. Not so with Democrats. They go their merry way and pay no price for their crimes.

No one in the present administration would have been approved had they been Republicans. But then,I know of no Republican president who would have nominated CROOKS in the first place.

~~~

Greetings, Rowly,

As always, you nail them !

OBTW, you being from the South, you might want to read my posts to Summers and Denise. You Southern Conservatives are among the tops in my book, so this applies to you as well. Kind Pistol is another I admire.



Hal
Ha, that is funny. It is a very liberal school, but the professors were and are great people. They did allow for opposing views. It made the classes fun and a good learning environment. I am a libertarian, so we should agree on many things, just not everything.

Good night.

Wrat Wrangler

Wrat Wrangler
Location: NY
Reply # 328
Date: Feb 3, 2009 - 9:29 PM EST The value of literature
Muddled Murk,

I KNOW the Ring Trilogy is fiction you hydrocephalic moron. The point is the author's viewpoint. He used the Trilogy to parallel real world events such as the Second World War...

~~~

Wrat Wrangler,

Shame on you. " hydrocephalic moron ", Indeed ! Making fun of a troll's obvious defect.


Ooh, I can just see the bulbous projection, throbbing with feelings with nary a thought included.

The image recalled was of the 'beings' in the Star Trek Pilot, "The Menagerie", except with the thinking power of a snail.

A toast to you, my friend.




Whoo Haw !

Wrat Wrangler
Nothing worse than getting a wedgie while wearing a chenille bedspread! The cretin makes a goat the epitomy of grace.

Aaron
"Date: Feb 3, 2009 - 9:43 PM EST
Hal
Washington University in St. Louis. It is very liberal elitist. You would have enjoyed the place. Full of arguments based solely on rhetoric and dependent on revisionary history and half truths."

So how did they fail you?

There you go, again, Hal!
When you start resorting to LMAO, you are losing it. At least you are not currently copying the dictionary.

Hal, you have hit an all time intellectual low, based on your highs and lows, today.

Rats v. Mice:
I have to deal with about 90,000 mice and about 1,200 rats in the research facility where I work. Not all of them we have over 40 techs. I have learned that I much prefer the company of rats to mice.

Rats are lovable and sociable critters capable of affection and quite clever. They learn their names and learn to recognize the people who treat them best. If you hold one on you arm it will tuck its head under your elbow in a show of trust.

Mice on the other hand bite everything that moves and show NO appreciation of anything you do for them. Much like liberals and their wards of the state.

-Ray
NRA Life Member
Soli Deo Gloria!!

Lesson from Miss Congeniality:
Geekster:

Michelle (ma Belle) should've called Gretchen Carlson, Miss America 1989, for advice on how to avoid the dreaded public wedgie. If you watch anything about those pageants it seems the girls wear a g-string and spray their glutes with extra hold hairspray. Apparently it serves to keep things from "crawling" where they don't belong. Don't worry. Michelle won't have to deal with wedgie picks at any more inauguration balls.

-Ray
NRA Life Member
Soli Deo Gloria!!

Hal
Washington University in St. Louis. It is very liberal elitist. You would have enjoyed the place. Full of arguments based solely on rhetoric and dependent on revisionary history and half truths.

Denise, Denise, Denise...

Denise
Location: LA
Reply # 324
Date: Feb 3, 2009 - 9:11 PM EST The Duck-Rat Revolution!
C'mon on down. Summers and I will join you in defeating "You and your Momma's Army."

It is warm down here and you can even cop a Corner-Chair (Dome seat stolen from the Dome) on a clear day.

And, Rat, can't I get named to the AR list? I know that I admitted to mole-killing, but please accept my profuse apologies.

Sincerely,

Another Duck-Rat Revolutionista.

~~~


Denise, Please go back to the Murchison column, check the time-date stamps and read my reply.

YOU HAVE ALWAYS BEEN ON MY 'AR' LIST !!!

I have, I thought, made this clear, before.

~~~

Ach ! A thought. Perhaps you were reading in obverse order. TH does this sometimes. Perhaps for a prank.

Rat cannot 'give a nod' to someone, two hours after he left the building.

I was NOT born in Kenya, although I have been there. It sux!


This Olde Ratte loves your posts, and will not skip one, if I see it.

'Nother thing. You wanna whack rodents, DO IT TO 'EM !

Myself, of course, excepted.

~~~

One last thing. True Southern Belles are a thing of admiration, and there are many of you who post here. I shant try to name them all, as I would run out of space and words.

Kudos to you all, and I love you all for what you are: A Credit to Humanity.


Aaron
"Date: Feb 3, 2009 - 9:31 PM EST
Hal
You got ripped off. You would know more about economics if you read Henry Hazlitt's small book, "Economics in One Lesson."

By the way "one of the better schools in the country" means very little to me. I graduated with Honors from a school that floats around the top ten in the country."

Liberty???? LMAO

"... Most likely you were taught either Keynesian or Supply-side, both are incorrect. Read "Capitalism" by Reisman or "Human Action" by Mises."

LMAO it had to be Liberty or was it Oral Roberts LMAO, LOL

Wrat Wrangler
"Date: Feb 3, 2009 - 9:29 PM EST
The value of literature
...I'll give you a hint. It was ALSO fiction


-Ray
NRA Life Member
Soli Deo Gloria!!"

WOW an NRA member and conservative claiming to read????? This is new. Was the book all pictures or BIG letters?

Hal
You got ripped off. You would know more about economics if you read Henry Hazlitt's small book, "Economics in One Lesson."

By the way "one of the better schools in the country" means very little to me. I graduated with Honors from a school that floats around the top ten in the country. Most likely you were taught either Keynesian or Supply-side, both are incorrect. Read "Capitalism" by Reisman or "Human Action" by Mises.


Carlos
"Date: Feb 3, 2009 - 9:23 PM EST
Help me understand dear Liberals..."

Happy to do so

"..The Ex-Mayor of Detroit left the county jail at midnight after serving 99 days... He was Flanked by a platoon of sharp-dressed "Nation of Islam" security thugs... Shoving reporters aside, they sped off into the night in a 5-car caravan.
------------------------------------------

Why is it 'still' okay for Democrats to associate with (or belong to) Racist organizations? Why no outcry against this fanatical Hate group?"

This is very easy. he is no longer a Democrat. By virtue of his jail time and convictions he is now a Republican like those other icons like Liddy, North and Craig. So perhaps you can tell us?

"...And Why didn't the Liberal Detroit Newspapers (nor any local TV) report the disturbing identity of the Ex-Mayor's "Security Team"?..."

Because he is now a Republican

"P.S. This morning a "Private Jet" took the Ex-Mayor to Texas - with no reporters mentioning Carbon Emissions."

To where????? Is he in Crawford now or Dallas????

The value of literature
Muddled Murk,

I KNOW the Ring Trilogy is fiction you hydrocephalic moron. The point is the author's viewpoint. He used the Trilogy to parallel real world events such as the Second World War.

If you know your literature, WHAT book was widely read in Czechoslovakia before the revolt and in fact played a large role in organizing the revolt against Russia?

I'll give you a hint. It was ALSO fiction


-Ray
NRA Life Member
Soli Deo Gloria!!

Help me understand dear Liberals...

The Ex-Mayor of Detroit left the county jail at midnight after serving 99 days... He was Flanked by a platoon of sharp-dressed "Nation of Islam" security thugs... Shoving reporters aside, they sped off into the night in a 5-car caravan.
------------------------------------------

Why is it 'still' okay for Democrats to associate with (or belong to) Racist organizations? Why no outcry against this fanatical Hate group?

And Why didn't the Liberal Detroit Newspapers (nor any local TV) report the disturbing identity of the Ex-Mayor's "Security Team"?

P.S. This morning a "Private Jet" took the Ex-Mayor to Texas - with no reporters mentioning Carbon Emissions.






Aaron
"Date: Feb 3, 2009 - 9:10 PM EST
John and Hal
I understand that your political leanings prohibit you from learning or understanding economics, but please refrain from commenting on the subject. You are woefully ignorant and it is obvious."

My undergraduate degree was in economics from one of the better schools in the country. Just stating that for the record

....Of Limo's And Lemons....

Daschle has mercifully withdrawn his nomination. I don't know why. He is no worse than the rest of the bloody crooks in the administration.

Government officials were at one time in our lifetimes,if not clean....at least cleaner. Now,there is no oversight of them. Look at the crooks holding office at present.

The only congress people who must leave office when they are caught with their hand in the cookie jar is Republicans.

Democrats would love to purge congress of ALL their opposition. So if one has even a HINT of wrongdoing,they are dogged until the are history. Not so with Democrats. They go their merry way and pay no price for their crimes.

No one in the present administration would have been approved had they been Republicans. But then,I know of no Republican president who would have nominated CROOKS in the first place.

The Duck-Rat Revolution!
C'mon on down. Summers and I will join you in defeating "You and your Momma's Army."

It is warm down here and you can even cop a Corner-Chair (Dome seat stolen from the Dome) on a clear day.

And, Rat, can't I get named to the AR list? I know that I admitted to mole-killing, but please accept my profuse apologies.

Sincerely,

Another Duck-Rat Revolutionista.

John and Hal
I understand that your political leanings prohibit you from learning or understanding economics, but please refrain from commenting on the subject. You are woefully ignorant and it is obvious.

MNDuck...

MNDuck
Location: MN
Reply # 309
Date: Feb 3, 2009 - 7:45 PM EST Summers & The Rat - Wagons Circling
I guess I assumed that the democrats would be environmentally conscious and not use any vehicle that would add to globull warming. My Bad.

No worries on delayed responses. My computer acts up sometimes and posts get lost and then they reappear.

Rats - Actually, we have more than 6 conservatives up here. Shocking, I know. But for just one example, my sister has 11, count'em 11 kids. All are good, intelligent conservatives, home-schooled, and now each graduating college early and with honors.

One of the things that Hawkins doesn't touch on is the "angry" liberal. It comes across to me that the people I see who are the most angry are liberals while those who appear content and happy seem to be conservatives - even after our weak showing last November. Of course if we would have run a conservative for president instead of a democrat-lite, we might have had a chance.

Kind Regards

~~~

MNDuck,

My word was, "Posters". I did not intend to imply that the fine 'Snow Covered State' of Minnesota, had no other conservatives.



Oh, time lag...

Imagine a meeting. Fun stuff happening. Someone says, "Wake the Rat and see if he has a comment."

OK, that's the equivalent of my 'dial-up' service.



roy-IL: THIS should make you feel good.

While you're up in IL in the cold and snow, and on unemployment, ol' Bozo is sitting in the Oval Office, with the thermostat set up SO HIGH that according to Axelrod, "you could grow orchids in there..."

And, apparently last night Bozo had a "party" for his White House staff... and not only did they have steaks, they were $100/ pound steaks.

Hmmmm.....

Geeze, I flipped out a few years ago buying buffalo steaks at $36/pound!


Summers... HOO HAW...


Summers
Location: LA
Reply # 286
Date: Feb 3, 2009 - 7:05 PM EST

Ratas y Ratones

Well, Honey Chile, you are always welcomed in the South. I forgot to mention that my lime tree is in bloom.

And, you are on my AR list, as well!

~~~

DANG ! OUCH ! DANG !

Rat forget rule # 1. Never chide a southern belle, unless you want it back in spades !

This is of course unforgivable, since some of my folks moved North from the Carolinas, c. 1810 to Indiana Territory. As late as my Dad, he loved grits.

Rodentus Americansis, two uppers, two lowers, all very sharp.

Rat could gnaw that lime tree down in minutes, except that he is laughing too hard.





roy-IL:And what are the chances of that?

ZERO! ZIP! NADA! Zilch!

He already has TWO others who have stepped away from the process, and you think Bozo will get rid of the third tax cheat?

He already looks a fool!!!

But, your idea of milking the unemployment for all it's worth... not a bad idea. No jobs out there anyway, and no doubt Bozo will extend the number of weeks people can collect.

If Bozo was smart (which he obviously isn't) he'd cancel all the foreign work visas and send them home...

No reason (even legal) foreign workers on visas should be taking the few jobs there are.


anne
obama could always fire mr.g. then its the nobel prize winning economist at the helm of treasury as it should have been all along. actually i think obama already has a hot line set up with krugman. he'll be calling the economic shots with warren buffet.all hush hush and behind the scenes you know.

summers
naw i think i'll milk this unemployment for all its worth while i'm waiting for my bailout. or bonus-whichever comes first.

Dearest John
"Again you ignorant, uneducated illiterate Neocons can't understand simply science."

I don't profess to know all that there is to know about science, which differentiates me from someone that grew up in a hotel room in Washington, DC.

Given the degrees in Finance, Economics and a MBA that I have, as well as being old enough to remember the peanut-economy under Jimmah, I do know something about Real World Economics.

So, if the economy dies first, who is going to care if Fat Al Gore and AGW religionists are correct?


Retired Geek
"Program Director Greg Tantum says he thought the station could work because of enthusiasm over Obama, but that ratings collapsed to a level that could not be measured after the election. But ratings nearly doubled, he says, at...conservative station, WTNT, which features Laura Ingraham and Bill Bennett. Tantum said he will move Schultz to WTNT to give him another shot."

I can't believe they even made that. HAHAHA. Liberal radio is as good as getting kicked in the nuts while being disrobed, shot, while on fire rolling around in toxic waste while having your wallet stolen on a -20 degree day.
I love conservative radio. Gets the libs all riled up like a flock of sheep surrounded by wolves. This Obamamania is insane.

Get Your Own Barack in a Box

You Liberals need to get your own 'Barack in a Box' - turn the handle and 'Hail to the Chief Plays' and Barack pops out of the box.

http://www.barack-in-the-box.com/

roy
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Good one!

Press Congress to pass e-verify and get a job!

roy the ILL dumpster-diver!

Try to pull it together, and pay attention....

"Geithner sworn in as treasury secretary"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28862809/

"Obama's nominee wins Senate confirmation despite tax problems"



So, you now have a tax cheat as Sec. Treasury!

Well done, I guess... if you're a lunatic liberal without ethics, that is.


summers
ok got it.if the republicans somehow manage to steal the senate seat in minnesota.say hello to your new labor secretary,al franken. that would put my 2 favorite authors in obama's cabinet. franken and krugman-the dynamic duo.

MNDuck...

MNDuck, One more thing,


An ancient oriental language has an adage...


"Shiimpai nai, Watashi koko."


"Fear not, for I am with you."



Summers & The Rat - Wagons Circling
I guess I assumed that the democrats would be environmentally conscious and not use any vehicle that would add to globull warming. My Bad.

No worries on delayed responses. My computer acts up sometimes and posts get lost and then they reappear.

Rats - Actually, we have more than 6 conservatives up here. Shocking, I know. But for just one example, my sister has 11, count'em 11 kids. All are good, intelligent conservatives, home-schooled, and now each graduating college early and with honors.

One of the things that Hawkins doesn't touch on is the "angry" liberal. It comes across to me that the people I see who are the most angry are liberals while those who appear content and happy seem to be conservatives - even after our weak showing last November. Of course if we would have run a conservative for president instead of a democrat-lite, we might have had a chance.

Kind Regards

summers
well give me a minute and i'm sure i can come up with other pearls of wisdom floating around in this huge brain.

So doofass! Lets get this straight!

Are you a member (in good standing, of course) of the "American Marxist Party?"

or

Are you a member (in good standing, of course) of the "American Communist Party?"


And the other question is, are you actually a "card carrying member" or did you sign up electronically?


I mean, we shouldn't be calling you "doofass the Marxist" if you're actually a member of the Communist Party, and we shouldn't be calling you "doofass the Communist" if you're a member of the Marxist Party!


We're all about be being polite, ya know!


Anne,
I'm off until much later.

While I am gone, would you please explain to roy the Illinois dumpster diver that Geithner the Tax Cheat has already been confirmed? Also, tell him how to spell Geithner.

Ret Geek: NO WAY!!! Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha
"But ratings nearly doubled, he says, at...conservative station, WTNT, which features Laura Ingraham and Bill Bennett."

Guess they NEVER learn, do they???


roy the Illinois dumpster diver
Is that the best you can do?

Ratas y Ratones, MNDuck
Dims do not 'circle the wagons'; they circle the gas-guzzling limos! Remember that their carbon footprints don't count! (i.e., AlGore)

poetic justice
wouldn't be great if obama withdraws geintner's name and nominates krugman. the town hallies would go ape shiite lol.

MNDuck


MNDuck
Location: MN
Reply # 231
Date: Feb 3, 2009 - 4:36 PM EST Standshisground & The Rat
The democrats are not getting a conscience. They are starting to circle the wagons so the media doesn't look too far up their skirts.

Rats - I hope I can get some kind of exemption as I live in MN now and spent 10 years in the people's republic of Eugene.

Kind Regards from a state in desperate need of globull warming

~~~

MNDuck,

YOU, Kind Sir, have had an exemption from Day One!

I always read your posts when I see them.

You are on my AR List ( Always Read ).

~~~

Rat Replies are always delayed.

I have Dial-up, with zero option to upgrade, at a price I can afford.


I live way out in the woods, and my replies take anywhere from 5 to 50 minutes, depending upon the length of columns, and Internet Traffic.

I am the waif of today's world.

No chat rooms, no 'me too tube', no online videos, no audio, etc.

Sorry for the delay.



Hey, Hal,
$66B for infrastructure repair out of a $900+B 'package'! Whoa! A little short there, aren't they? What's wrong with the Dims? What a bunch of idiots! Honeybee insurance, that's the ticket!

Summers:Boggles the reasonable, rational

functioning mind, doesn't it???

But, that's what happens when these intellectually limited liberal idiots elect Bozo the Clown to the White House!


Summers
"Date: Feb 3, 2009 - 7:19 PM EST
Hal Donahue
At a loss of thought and words so you are reduced to copying the dictionary?"

LOL not at all I am tired of folks only remembering the "common defense" part of the preamble and what a preamble actually is. Thought they needed a reminder.

Way to say it!
I'd give this piece ten checks if I could!

Retired Geek
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Couldn't happen to a better bunch of idiots!

Liberal Radio Station bites the dust

Washington Post 2-1-09

"The Washington Post’s Howard Kurtz reported Monday that "President Obama may be riding high in Washington, but OBAMA 1260 is not. The area's only progressive talk station is changing formats, dropping such syndicated liberal hosts as Ed Schultz, Stephanie Miller and Bill Press in favor of financial news, starting next week."

"Program Director Greg Tantum says he thought the station could work because of enthusiasm over Obama, but that ratings collapsed to a level that could not be measured after the election. But ratings nearly doubled, he says, at...conservative station, WTNT, which features Laura Ingraham and Bill Bennett. Tantum said he will move Schultz to WTNT to give him another shot."

Apparently even Washington DC, can't take Liberal nonsense 'Talk Shows'."

Hal Donahue
At a loss of thought and words so you are reduced to copying the dictionary?

Anne,
I have gotten more laughs in the past two weeks than I had in a long time. The Dims provide a real spectator sport.

Bayh said nine Dim Senators met last night to start listing the non-recovery provisions to cut from the 'recovery package'. Hummer of an admission there.

Did you see that David Obey put in a couple of mil to help his son's business interests in the House version? Incredible. Pathetic. Typical Dim logic and ethics.

Hey Ratas: Here's your "nod." :-)
Some day today, huh?

I have another question.

You suppose doofass the Marxist is actually a "card carrying" Marxist, or did he sign up electronically????





Obama already tired of White House

WASHINGTON (AP) - "On the rockiest day of his young administration, President Barack Obama did what surely made him happy for a while.

He left.

With little notice, the president and first lady Michelle Obama bolted the gated compound of 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. in their tank of a limousine on Tuesday. They ended up at a Washington public school, greeted by children who could not care less about the collapse of a Cabinet secretary nomination.

"We were just tired of being in the White House," the president candidly told the gleeful second-graders at Capital City Public Charter School."

Mike definition of preamble note"INTENT"
pre·am·ble Listen to the pronunciation of preamble
Pronunciation:
\'pre-?am-b?l, pre-'\
Function:
noun
Etymology:
Middle English, from Middle French preambule, from Medieval Latin preambulum, from Late Latin, neuter of praeambulus walking in front of, from Latin prae- + ambulare to walk
Date:
14th century

1: an introductory statement ; especially : the introductory part of a constitution or statute that usually states the reasons for and intent of the law2: an introductory fact or circumstance ; especially : one indicating what is to follow

Standshisground


Location: MO
Reply # 240
Date: Feb 3, 2009 - 4:56 PM EST
MNDuck and Ratas y Ratones... [ 2K limit ]

Ratas y Ratones:

Let me suggest a few MORE names for your list. How did you manage to overlook Mario? Chloe should DEFINITELY be there as well. And why not Left Angle and Taft and zapdoodat and Vampire's Reflection and koolmuse? MellorSJ2 as well - although being an atheist homosexual (by his own admission), he seems to confine his ridicule of people who believe in God to threads dealing with issues of a spiritual nature. I'm going to guess that Ranger29 isn't on your list only because TownHall ALREADY removes his posts daily.

Most of these I've named are ALREADY on MY scroll-by list. And several of the ones YOU named are (Don Juan, for example, with Mod Mark, as I previously noted, being my newest addition)...

[ cut. 2K limit ]

...The only reason I haven't added Dr. Douglas to my list - YET - is because I've been having some fun in posts to him recently over the fact that I actually had a post on this site addressed to him given the Ranger29 treatment and removed because I mentioned some information about him in my post which Mike Adams had already spilled to the world in a column not long ago - and Dr. Douglas claimed he's gotten harassed as a result of Adams' column ever since, and apparently TownHall has bowed to his sensitivities and removes posts which have the offending information Adams revealed!

~~~

Standshisground,

Howdy.


THE LIST ! Ach du lieber ! Rat forgot to mention that was for this column only.

There is a '2000 character' limit you know.

~~~

You got ahead of me, as I will include those you mentioned above, at a later date.


Re: dr dingleberry ~ I suspect it is a female organ of an ovine species.

And, Cons be censored, dr dung be not... more later.


Anne,
Why shouldn't they show up? They spew hatred to the message they get here; but, they keep coming back and reading it. It appears that conservative thought is not that unattractive to them.

However, they are loathe, as shown by Hal, to admit they are wrong. Even Obummer said today that nominating Daschle the Weasel was a 'SCREW-UP'.

Summers: Picture this!

THREE cabinet appointees are caught not paying or avoiding taxes, and the ONLY ONE left STANDING is Sec. of TREASURY!


Get that, the FREAKIN' TREASURY!


It's just so ridiculous that you can't help but laugh!


Ratas y Ratones
Well, Honey Chile, you are always welcomed in the South. I forgot to mention that my lime tree is in bloom.

And, you are on my AR list, as well!

Summers: It's shocking that any liberal

even dares show up on TH!!!


Anne,
No one better than Biden to tell us that paying taxes is patriotic when his party leaders avoid, don't declare, or don't pay them. Or did they get a patriotic pass?

Anne,
That was the problem with the last piece of graft passed, which I blame on Bush and both parties. Everyone was running around like their hair was on fire to get it passed immediately, if not sooner. What results have we seen? We know that Geithner the Tax Cheat is on his way back to Congress right after the current 'package' to get another 'banking package'. Also, Obummer said this afternoon that a 'housing package' will have to be passed. I guess the 'banking package' will include tax breaks for pole dancers in 'gentlemen's clubs'.

How do you like the bill that had to be introduced in the House because Charlie Rangel the Tax Cheat got a deal so that he didn't have to pay penalties and interest on his unpaid and undeclared taxes?

Summers y MNDuck...

Summers
Location: LA
Reply # 241
Date: Feb 3, 2009 - 4:57 PM EST Ratas y Ratones, MNDuck
Rats, thanks for the list. Without a program, I sometimes lose sight of which team the players are on.

MNDuck, good afternoon, sir. If you were down here you could be out playing golf. Glorious, cool day.

~~~

Summers and MNDuck, Kind regards, both.

Both of you are on my AR List, as always read!

Summers, Kind Lady, you are gauche today. 'Golfing', when us Yankees are enjoying global warming ? MNDuck with 3 feet of it, and The Hoosier Barn Rat has only a foot of it, and we are getting more, as I type.

MNDuck, when you conservative posters from 'Minnie Soda' have your annual meeting, please give my regards. I'm certain, the other six all know me by now.

~~~


THE LIST ! Ach du lieber ! Rat forgot to mention that was for this column only.

There is a '2000 character' limit you know.



Being a "patriotic American" is

mutually exclusive with being a "Marxist/Communist."

Unfortunately, poor ol' doofass~Marxist has made it very obvious that he much prefers the Marxist way of life (which of course, is NO LIFE!) so there is absolutely NO WAY that doofass~Marxist CAN be a "patriotic American."



Mike
When the Mexican government fails, what happens to the US? That has been set forth as a real possibility. I know the libs will put the masses coming here on the fast track to citizenship with welfare and voting rights in the interim.

Hal Donahue
And what makes you think there are jobs being created or kept in this boondoggle? It's over 600 pages, 7/8's of which is giveaway crap. At what point do you demand on realism? Or do you? Tell me where to find 3M jobs in this trash, other than with honeybee insurance.

Problem Solving
Retired Geek you made a very valid point about the Boardmembers of a Company argueing amongst them selves about who caused the problem with their computer software, and how to fix the problem. Our Constitution states that the powers of government are limited to 1.Common Defense of our nation, which also means Securing our Boarders, 2.Establishing Justice which means following the Laws of the Land , our Constitution, 3. Building and Maintaining our Infrastructure (roads, bridges, dams ect..) Unfortunately our government has failed miserable on all three counts, we currently have laws on the books concerning our boarders security but are not enforced, our infrastructure is falling apart and currently our government is spending billions of dollars building the infrastructure of foreign nations. So I ask you, Why do we need a government?

All we have to do is substitute the

word "Marxist" or "Communist" or the word "Stimulus" and we'd have renamed this dog of a big govt. package exactly what it is!


Summers: doofass the Marxist Baby Killer

sounds like one of those seedy ol' used car salesmen trying to sell you a clunker of a car...


"Well, you'd better hurry up and buy this car before someone else buys it...."

Of course, no one in his right mind has even glanced at it, but "hurry, hurry, hurry...."

Got to get this bomb of a "grow the govt" package passed before they figure out just how bad it really is...



Doofass:
The thing is it won't be quick. Most of the money is backended to 2010-2012. Very little immediate help is in the bill.

Summers
"Date: Feb 3, 2009 - 5:59 PM EST
Hal Donahue, ONCE MORE
If a Congressman (Evan Bayh-D) can admit that the Dem bailout plan is STUPID, why can't you and the other Dims here?..."

I don't much care what the jobs plan is as long as it is quick.

gene
i would gladly live with the peanut corporation of america if i could see the demise of that criminal organization, the IRS. after all, i do not have to do business with the pca. try not doing business with the irs. its worse by far than salmonella, and at least salmonella wont give my money to everyone that hates me the most.

Summers:
Those packages will be real bombs.

ExRC SD Deputy
Yesterday Hal went to great trouble to explain why honeybee insurance is needed as a stimulus to our economy. He will go out of his way to insist that the liberal way is the only way. However, even the professional politician libs have to back away sometimes. Evan Bayh called it 'stupid'. Oops!

If the TARP was not objectionable enough (for which I fault Bush and both parties), now we have this huge political boondoggle which will be followed by a 'housing package' and another 'bank package'. Hey, I don't want any more 'packages' delivered.

John in CA
The First Amendment deals with censorship by the U.S. GOVERNMENT (actually more specifically, Congress); TownHall is free to make its OWN rules regarding what it will accept on its site or not, since it is a privately-run enterprise. Just like your employer - as long as, presumably, it isn't a government entity - is free to make its own rules about what can be spoken or written at the work site.

If you want to talk about web site censorship, ever hear about what sites like the DailyKos and HuffPost do? They STRINGENTLY censor any expressions that deviate from liberal orthodoxy. Conservative posters here who have tried it as an experiment have come back to tell us that as soon as they've posted something of a conservative tone on those sites, they've been locked out of those sites thereafter.

As a matter of fact, several liberal posters who post here have openly admitted that they found those sites quite boring precisely BECAUSE the content is so rigidly controlled - and therefore no true exchange of ideas is permitted.

However, as I've said many a time on this site and will say specifically now to you, I have NEVER flagged a post by any liberal on this site and NEVER WILL, no matter how far down toward the bottom of the barrel in terms of taste or content it scrapes. Because I won't have any part in turning this site into a conservative equivalent of those leftist web sites I mentioned before - because I don't want to become like leftists, for whom censorship is standard operating procedure.

By the way, if we conservatives were as active censors as you might think we are, a LOT of liberals on this site would see their posts disappear. Personally, I'm proud to be among people who are strong enough of character to be able to allow even the most vulgar expressions of liberal thought (if you can call the content of their posts "thought") on this site WITHOUT emulating the commissars of the leftist sites and actively censoring them.

Summers:
The Doofass's problem is endemic to moonbats, they cannot admit that they are ever wrong.

Left Angle-Get your head out of the sand
Read this report by the DSA and tell me how it is different from the stimulus package being shoved down our throats.

http://www.chicagodsa.org/ngarchive/ng122.html#anchor577843

So you tell me Left Angle, who is running our government?

Hal Donahue, ONCE MORE
If a Congressman (Evan Bayh-D) can admit that the Dem bailout plan is STUPID, why can't you and the other Dims here?

You can't resist being here; but, you dodge the issues of the day when your fearless leaders screw up. Is your problem a lack of honesty?