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Friday, October 05, 2007
John Hawkins :: Townhall.com Columnist
The Conservative Case Against Mitt Romney
by John Hawkins
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Mitt Romney is charismatic, an excellent fundraiser, and a man who can genuinely claim to be an outsider in a year when the American people are sick to death of politics as usual in Washington.

Additionally, Mitt has an excellent political strategy for 2008, one that catapulted John Kerry to victory in 2004: win Iowa, win New Hampshire and then rely on the momentum of those two early victories to act as a slingshot to victory.

Could it work? Could Mitt Romney carry the Republican banner in the 2008 presidential race? Yes! Would that be good news for the Republican Party? Not so much. Let talk about why that's the case.

The Mormon Factor

Like most Americans, I would happily walk into the voting booth and cast a vote for a Mormon to be President of the United States. Unfortunately, a significant block of Americans who consider Mormons to be part of a heretical Christian cult, rightly or wrongly, won't vote a Mormon into the White House.

For example, a Los Angeles Times/Bloomberg poll back in June of 2006 found that 37 percent of Americans said "that they would not vote for a Mormon presidential candidate." Similarly, in a February of 2007, USA Today poll, 24% of American adults flat out said that they would not vote for a Mormon who ran for the presidency.

Those numbers, which are none too cheery for Mitt backers become even more grim when you consider the very real possibility that many of the people who say that they won't vote for a Mormon may be Christians who typically vote Republican, but won't cast their vote for someone whom they consider to be part of a cult. This survey of Christians at ChristiaNet.com would seem to support that theory. 59% of the 2000 Christians surveyed "claimed they would not vote to elect a Mormon for president."

So far, Mitt has tried to deal with this issue by casting himself as a candidate friendly to religious voters and to my ears, he has done a pretty good job of it.

However, it hasn't worked so far and if he becomes the nominee, you can be absolutely sure that the mainstream media will use religion as a cudgel to beat him on a daily basis until the election. Nary a day would pass when you wouldn't see stories on "magic" Mormon underwear, Mormon discrimination against black Americans, Mormon polygamy, and anything else they can come up with. Day in and day out, we'd be treated to anti-Mormon guests on the cable news shows, anti-Mormon books, and even movies that portray Mormons as terrorists.

So, at the moment, roughly a quarter of Americans aren't going to vote for Mitt Romney because of his religion and given how the media will surely behave in 2008, we have every reason to think those numbers will only go up. Unfortunately, you simply cannot write off a quarter of the American public because of your religion and still win the presidency. That may not be fair, but it is something Mitt Romney has got to deal with effectively -- and soon -- if he wants to be President of the United States.

He Can Win The Nomination, But Not A General Election

Whether it's because of the Mormon factor, his slipperiness on the issues (more on that in a moment), the fact that he's a Republican from Taxachusetts, the story about his taking a long drive with his dog on the roof of his car, an irrational dislike of people named "Mitt," or some other assorted factor or combination of factors, the American public is not warming up to Mitt Romney.

Once you get outside of Iowa and New Hampshire, where he has been spending much of his time and campaign war chest, Mitt's numbers are frighteningly bad.

Nationally, other than in August of this year, when Mitt surfed a wave of positive publicity about his victory at the Ames straw poll in Iowa, he has been mired right around the 9%-10% range in national polls. In fact, if you go all the way back to April of this year, you'll find that Mitt's national numbers are at about the same level. Just as a point of comparison, remember John McCain? You know, the guy everyone is saying can't raise money and has no chance to win? He has been -- and is still -- consistently outpolling Mitt Romney nationally.

Things get even worse for Mitt when you look at state polls against the Democratic contenders. Romney, like Giuliani, has been touting himself as a candidate who can give the Democrats problems in 2008 because he can compete with them in the blue states. However, for that strategy to work, the candidate has to be able to hold red states against a liberal Democratic nominee while he tries to bring more blue states into the fold. Rudy Giuliani, at least at this early point, has poll numbers that indicate he might be able to pull it off. Romney doesn't.

In fact, his numbers are much worse than those of Fred Thompson or Rudy Giuliani. How much worse? He actually ties Hillary in Kentucky and loses to her in Kansas and Oklahoma.

If the GOP has to struggle in 2008 to even hang onto red states like Kentucky, Kansas, and Oklahoma, we might as well just give up on retaining the presidency right now.

The Johnny Come Lately Conservative

It's very difficult for Mitt's opponents to point out particular ideological positions of his that they have a problem with because he doesn't seem to have any firm ideological positions. You get the feeling that almost every position he holds today might change based on what office he's running for, what the polls say next week, or what audience he's talking to today.

While a little pandering to conservatives isn't such a bad thing or out of the ordinary -- all the candidates have done it to one extent or another -- Mitt has taken flip-floppery to positively Kerryian levels.

When Mitt ran against Ted Kennedy in 1994, he came across as a squishy RINO of the sort that you typically expect to be running for office in states like Massachusetts. Yet today, he sounds like a cross between Newt Gingrich circa 1994 and Rush Limbaugh. Did Mitt have a road-to-Damascus conversion to conservatism during that relatively short period of time or is he just pretending that he did to sucker conservatives into voting for him? The problem is that it's impossible to really know. The idea, I suppose, is that conservatives should get him into the White House and then we'll find out where he really stands.

And this is not just about abortion, where Mitt's position seems to have radically shifted, it's about a whole host of issues. He used to try to disassociate himself from Ronald Reagan and the Contract With America, but now he assures us that the Gipper and the Contract are close to his heart. He used to be pro-gun control and wanted nothing to do with the NRA, but now he's against gun grabbers and thinks the NRA is peachy. He came across as a member of the open borders and amnesty crowd whose position wasn't much different than that of John McCain on illegal immigration -- until it became a hot political issue -- and now he's running ads that make him sound like Tom Tancredo on the subject. Then there are the Bush tax cuts, embryonic stem cell research, and the military's "don't ask, don't tell" policy. There have been so many flips that the flops are still running about two blocks behind, trying to catch up.

Are these shifts genuine? Are they purely for politics' sake? Is Mitt Romney a conservative or is he a squish telling us what we want to hear while planning to take 3 or 4 steps back towards the middle once he feels less pressure to pander to the base? Probably the former, but there's no way to really know the truth. Do we really want a nominee in 2008 that we have this sort of questions about?

While Mitt Romney is certainly not all bad as a candidate, chances are he couldn't win a general election and even if he did, it would be difficult to know whether he would be a Reagan Republican or a Rockefeller Republican when he gets into office.

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About The Author
John Hawkins is a professional blogger who runs Right Wing News, Linkiest, and Viral Footage.
 
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$300 million in fraud benefits Romney
Mitt Romney's Bain entity benefited greatly from the fraud. Anyone that wants the Court docket records that prove this can email us at laserhaas@msn.com

Judge; Justice Dept silence aided fraud
This past week the Associated Press released an article where a Federal
Judge; Justice Dept silence aided Fraud , on the Court in bankruptcy cases in Wilmington Delaware.

Several law firms that have admitted to submitting multiple and some intentionally false Rule 2014 affidavits, which is Perjury, have enjoyed the benefits of no prosecutions occurring.

To the contrary the US Attorney in Delaware has not prosecuted the case even though one of the law firms has disbanded, sold and closed.

The Delaware powerhouse law firm of Morris Nichols (MNAT) represented eToys when it sold the assets of the bankruptcy estate for discounts in the tens of millions of dollars to Bain/ KB toys. MNAT has yet to disclose to the court their connections to Bain. Eventhough MNAT is representing Bain in the KB Toys bankruptcy case.

The law firm in eToys that also negotiated the sale of eToys assets to Bain as creditors attorney, Traub Bonacquist & Fox (TBF) is also in the KB case without disclosing their connections to Bain.

The Dept of Justice, instead of remaining silent about the issues, due to the fact that the whistle blower is now "pro se" has actually engaged in efforts to Obstruct Justice by being appellee with MNAT and TBF in the Del and Circuit Court appeals (3rd Circuit 06-4308 and 07-2360).

It is now discovered that one of the reasons which may explain why MNAT has not been prosecuted is that a partner of MNAT in 2001 became a US Attorney. Colm F Connolly, having not prosecuted his partners and former clients is now slotted to be a Delaware Federal Court District Judge.

It seems it is a great career move to ignore prosecuting your partners or former clients, especially when one of the former clients is owned by a Presidential hopeful.

However, it must now be of grave concern since they are "Caught".

Romney...
I love it, even you right-wing nuts quibble over your proposed leaders. I really enjoy the decent amongst the ranks. The crazies get crazier. Bible this and bible that. Wow - what a waste of effort.

My mom told me once she said a prayer and voted for the one who talked about god the most and was supported by her church, in the last election. Look what good that did. America is in the toilet. We have a retard for a president who started a war over oil and has been lining Halliburton and Black Water’s coffers with Billions while we fight over health care and immigration. We are so easily distracted. People who vote on the basis of proposed similarities in faith are morons. I can’t remember that stupid thing he keeps saying ‘atmosphere of life’ or something to that effect. Ridiculous! We heat up the planet – he tries to cut down nature preserves and relax emission standards so the American automakers produce garbage that looks like garbage, spews garbage and has turn American automakers into garbage. Life indeed. We are in worse shape than during the great depression and you people are worried about his ideology? I doubt he could spell ideology.

I think his handlers looked at hard data about Christians and what the largest sect of the faithful was before the 2000 elections and he converted to get votes – pure and simple. He’s evangelical because it was the largest single base of voters. Having Faith allows for asking questions – my question? Why didn’t that seem suspicious to anyone?

Unfortunately for Romney his campaign was DOA from the start and he shouldn't have bothered. Will I vote for Hilary or Giuliani? That's tough...two rational, intelligent people who keep their faith to themselves...I haven't heard enough from either to be 100% on my vote.

Mitt Romney
As a christian evanglical, I would not have a problem voting for Mitt Romney. Who said that we can create a heaven on (this) earth? Not my bible.

dancing
"Never in the history of the Mormon church have we ever believed, written or said that the birth of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ was the result of an act of sex. Quite the contrary, we believe whole heartedly that the Bible account is exactly what happened."

And it is the complete and entire account of how the birht of Jesus Christ came about?

Romney
Dancing

bluepiper, I'm having a hard time believing you were ever a Mormon honey. That kind of misinformation usually comes from someone who read something that someone else said who was seriously misinformed. Let me bring you up to speed, from a long time Mormon, old great-grandmother. Never in the history of the Mormon church have we ever believed, written or said that the birth of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ was the result of an act of sex. Quite the contrary, we believe whole heartedly that the Bible account is exactly what happened. So if you want to use that as a reason that Romney won't be a good Pres., you lose.
I've met Romney face to face, know his qualifications, know his convictions, know what his beliefs are and have studied his background. I don't vote for someone because of their religion, I vote on their record. We have Harry Reid in the Congress who is a Mormon and a serious embarrasment to Mormons and the US in general. Romney is walking to his own convictions about what is best for the United States. He loves this country, knows how to do the things this country needs to do to survive the damage that the left continues to do to our great nation. He's a true patriot such the like as we haven't seen since Reagan. He doesn't need to do this, run for office, put his family through the name calling, etc. He's running for office because he cares about all of us, left, right, black, white, tan, indifferent, religious or not. He has the skills and the experience that will put us back on the right track. That's why I'm voting for him. I backed Reagan for the same reason I'm backing Mitt Romney. I care about the future of our country. God Bless America!!!

Mischief
I'd say a case of getting your wires crossed with Jen! She probably misread you, as you were quoting someone else...

Bluepiper
Bluepiper:
"Catholics are not the original church. Roman Catholicism came into existence a couple hundred years after Christ and they were the ones that became apostate by worshiping Mary, talking to the dead, worshiping wafers as idols, etc."

Everything you have stated here is false. Right down to your "etc." The Catholic Church IS the Church described in the Acts of the Apostles, of which Peter, the first bishop of Rome, was the visible head. According to the words of Christ Himself.

Catholics do NOT "worship" Mary. They - RIGHTLY - honor her, as the closest human EVER - to God Himself. BeCAUSE God honored her first - and FAR more than any human EVER could.

Catholics do NOT "worship wafers". Silly. Do you think someone like William F Buckley is a total idiot??? Catholics worship Christ Himself, in accordance with and in obedience to... the words of Christ Himself.

Catholics do NOT "talk to the dead." Catholics DO, however, communicate with the LIVING... those who have been saved, and who will live forever in the presence of God. Surely you believe in "eternal life" and that this isNT the end???

Bluepiper: "If you want to know what Christianity is as defined by the Bible, try reading it."

Not so simple. Which is why there are so many "apostate" Churches in existance. Each following his own interpretATION.

Bluepiper: "We should be worried more about eternal life than about the comforts of life on this earth."

Good. I see you DO believe in "eternal life"!!

Bluepiper: "They are all crooks"

ALL of them??? Hmmm. A bit judgemental, no? Can you back this statement up with facts? Same with your conclusion. Singling out the "homosexuals" to "kowtow" to - smacks of paranoia.

www.evangelicalsformitt.org

Romney or Ron Paul?
While this article was a little harsh on Mitt Romney, I do not believe that his religion should be a factor; at least he has one, i.e. he is not an atheist, agnostic, witch or warlock. In fact, Mormonism emphasizes the importance of family and God. He has had a stable, long-term relationship with his wife and raised a wonderful family. This nation was founded on Christian principles. As an evangelical Christian myself I would no problem voting for him because of religion, nor should anyone else. People had the same questions about Catholics running for president not too long ago and we survived.
His later-day conversion to conservatism; however, is another matter. We would all like to believe that he is earnest, but many of us have doubts. We would all hope that, if nominated and elected president, he would follow through with his articulated conservative, constitutional principles and not be like the current president.
But there is a viable alternative to Mitt Romney that is right under everyone’s noses. Ron Paul is against abortion, for gun rights, for freedom and liberty and has, moreover, demonstrated this through his actions over the last several decades. "Dr. No," as he is sometimes called for his scrupulous voting record against any proposed legislation that is not strictly in accord with the U.S. Constitution, is widely respected for his conservative economic principles, constitutionality, and Christianity. Perhaps conservatives looking for alternative to the current GOP field should consider Rep. Ron Paul, MD. He would make an excellent president.

Romney or Ron Paul?
While this article was a little harsh on Mitt Romney, I do not believe that his religion should be a factor; at least he has one, i.e. he is not an atheist, agnostic, witch or warlock. In fact, Mormonism emphasizes the importance of family and God. He has had a stable, long-term relationship with his wife and raised a wonderful family. As an evangelical Christian myself I would no problem voting for him because of religion, nor should anyone else. People had the same questions about Catholics running for president not too long ago and we survived.

His later-day conversion to conservatism, however, is another matter. We would all like to believe it is earnest, but many of us have doubts. We would all hope that, if nominated and elected president, he would follow through with his articulated conservative, constitutional principles and not be like the current president.

But there is a viable alternative to Mitt Romney and that is right under everyone’s' noses. Ron Paul is against abortion, for gun rights, for freedom and liberty and has, moreover, demonstrated these principles over the last several decades. "Dr. No," as he is sometimes called for his scrupulous voting record again any proposed legislation that is no strictly in accord with the U.S. Constitution, is widely respected for his conservative economic principles, constitutionality, and Christianity. Perhaps conservatives looking for alternative to some of the current GOP field should consider Rep. Ron Paul, MD. He would make an excellent president.

Mitt Might Be Great
Then again he might not. We've had alot of unknown governors appear out of political obscurity to become President since Jimmy The Jerk invented the process in 1976. The m.o. is clear; a narcissistic but little-known governor uses either his ability to charm TV audiences or his inside connections to engineer himself into the White House. The lack of a strong ideological track-record allows them to wiggle from left to right depending on the audience, without being nailed to their past statements or actions. This process has brought us two of the worst presidents in American history; one an anti-semitic peanut farmer whose ability to overcome his inordinate fear of communism nearly lost the Cold War and whose left-wing economic policies nearly destroyed the economy, and a Huey Long type charlatan who sat in the Oval office with his pants around his ankles taking bribes and pondering his legacy while terrorists were attacking us undisturbed and 800,000 people were being slaughtered in Rwanda. Then came Chamber Of Commerce poster boy W, the Compassionate Conservative, except that he wasnt very conservative. When it came time to pick a Supreme Court Justice he picked his liberal, unqualified secretary and got pissed off when the base wouldnt buy it. We've gambled three times on unknown governors so lets not make this mistake again. Romney hasnt been around long enough to be trusted.

Jen
Whom are you addressing as "mischief"?

Considering that in this thread I have argued only against private interpretations and pointed out that those who claim that to be basing their religion on the Bible are basing it on what the Catholic church teaches (namely, what books are in the Bible), I think you're a little confused.

Sunday School, cont.
"Jer. 1: 5 states "Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

If you take this scripture at face value it implies that Jeremiah existed (as an angel) prior to conception and that Jehovah knew Jeremiah personally prior to conception."

At face value, it implies nothing of the sort. You knew what comment you were going to make before you posted it; it doesn't mean that your comment existed in angelic form and you knew it personally prior to your posting it.

"There are other scriptures that indicate there was an existence prior to this life. If I get time I will look them up and post them. "

If I get a chance I will explain them.

mischief
I believe it was G.K. Chesterton who wrote there is probably not a single person who opposes what the Catholic Church stands for, but there are countless who oppose what they think The Church stands for. You have a very false notion of Catholocism.

Good luck interpreting the Bible yourself. You want to know the funny thing about Sole Fide(the doctrine that the Bible stands alone)? No where in the Bible does it say this. You are basing the entire premise of your faith that all we need to do is read the Bible on something the Bible doesn't even say. And infact the Bible teaches the opposite. Jesus said to Peter (The First Pope) "You are my rock. Upon this rock I build my Church." Jesus always intended for people to follow the Bible and Sacred Tradition (The Roman Catholic Church). Why would Jesus give us his beautiful words and not a Church to help guide us? He wouldn't.

mischief
I believe it was G.K. Chesterton who wrote there is probably not a single person who opposes what the Catholic Church stands for, but there are countless who oppose what they think The Church stands for. You have a very false notion of Catholocism.

Good luck interpreting the Bible yourself. You want to know the funny thing about Sole Fide(the doctrine that the Bible stands alone)? No where in the Bible does it say this. You are basing the entire premise of your faith that all we need to do is read the Bible on something the Bible doesn't even say. And infact the Bible teaches the opposite. Jesus said to Peter (The First Pope) "You are my rock. Upon this rock I build my Church." Jesus always intended for people to follow the Bible and Sacred Tradition (The Roman Catholic Church). Why would Jesus give us his beautiful words and not a Church to help guide us? He wouldn't.

Mitt Romney
So much talk about Mr. Romney's Mormon faith ... one would think we are electing a pope! Everyone who has taken the time to write opinions and comments on John Hawkin's column are (I presume) followers of the political scene. Why then, the fuss over the religious practice of one candidate? It is true that the founders of the Latter Day Saints church modified the bible to accomodate their views. How, I wonder, does that affect us? I am a Catholic and I DID NOT vote for JFK because of the DNC's platform. Personally, I would not have a problem with electing a man of the Mormon faith to the presidency.... if that individual had the same moral values that was once upon a time the strength of our nation. Mitt Romney is on record as supporting marriage between one man and one woman (no special privileges to "sexual preference). I admire many of his family values and his desire to steer the nation back on a course of true justice is, to me, quite evident. So, please, don't quote scripture to justify a bigotted view of mormonism. I do not understand what or how they believe, but I know they are basically God-fearing and definitely family oriented. Let us not let fear and ignorance keep a good candidate out of the white house.

Townhallers, unite!
Vote for the Iron Man, Mitt Romney! He has what it takes to go up against that equivocating lawyer, Hillary. I can't wait for the real debates ahead. We Repubs need to unite behind a superior candidate and Mitt Romney is the man! MSM keeps pushing Rudy 'cause they know he can't win. Rudy has too much baggage.

MadMike & Bluepiper--I will pray for you
to become better informed before Nov. 2008 rolls around.

You are ready to shoot yourselves in the foot--let alone sell your children and grandchildren down the river--because you have ignorant beliefs about Romney. I believe several others have commented on the horrendous damage that would be wreaked upon our Nation with Hillary as President, and yet you and some others seemingly would rather help her to be elected than to have the excellently qualified, TRUE CONSERVATIVE Mitt Romney be our nation's President.

Pre existence
Jer. 1: 5 states "Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

If you take this scripture at face value it implies that Jeremiah existed (as an angel) prior to conception and that Jehovah knew Jeremiah personally prior to conception.

There are other scriptures that indicate there was an existence prior to this life. If I get time I will look them up and post them.

I will go look for the "2000 different translations of the Bible source" it has been a while since I encountered that idea.

Bible
"Roman Catholicism came into existence a couple hundred years after Christ and they were the ones that became apostate by worshiping Mary, talking to the dead, worshiping wafers as idols, etc. If you want to know what Christianity is as defined by the Bible, try reading it."

Which Bible?

The one the Catholics put together long after you claimed they apostatized?

Let us be clear: the practices you cite as proof of apostasy* were in place long before the canon of the New Testament was established.

Therefore, on what ground can you reject the Gospel of Judas? Ignatius of Antioch rejected it, to be sure, but he was one of those evil, Evil, EVIL Catholics.

*BTW, we don't worship Mary. The book of Revelations shows that those in Heaven are aware of us and our prayers: "Each of the elders held a harp and gold bowls filled with incense, which are the prayers of the holy ones." The wafer is no longer a wafer, but Jesus Christ, who is it is our duty to worship; that the bread literally becomes him is shown by the sixth chapter of John, where only a literal belief could explain the disgust of his disciples -- this is the ONLY time that anyone leaves him for doctrinal reasons -- and that his apostles stay not because they view it symbolically or what not, but because He has the words of eternal life.

Sunday School, cont.
In interests of carrying on the explaining of the Way of God, I point out that no, this does not include

"even those in the Council in Heaven in the pre-existence."

because there are no humans in Heaven in "pre-existence." You came into existence, body and soul, when you were conceived. The falsity of the doctrine that we were procreated as spiritual beings before we were conceived is shown in that

"But when the fullness of time had come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under the law to ransom those under the law, so that we might receive ADOPTION. As proof that you are children, God sent the spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying out, "Abba, Father!" So you are no longer a slave but a child, and if a child then also an heir, through God."

because if we are adopted children, we are not natural children, and if we were once NOT His children, we were not His natural children.

"Those in attendance included Jesus and Lucifer/Satan."

Jesus's relationship to the Father is not like any of others. Indeed, the only time the words "Our Father" appear in His mouth are when he teaches that prayer -- tells *us* to say "Our Father." He himself said things like "But go to my brothers and tell them, 'I am going to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'" Why not "our father, our God"? Because his relationship was different than ours.

Sunday School
"Then you didn't pay attention to your Sunday school lessons, or you would know that according to the teachings of ALL Christian denominations, we are ALL spiritual brothers and sisters in God,"

*sigh*

People become Christians by receiving the baptism that Christ instituted. In order to do this, the person baptizing must:
1. use water.
2. do it "in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit."
3. intend to do it.

But Mormons do not intend to do it. They do not believe that Jesus instituted His baptism, but that the baptism started with Adam and continued from there, and that Jesus introduced nothing new.

This means they are not Christian, not having been properly baptized. As Apollos wasn't.

"A Jew named Apollos, a native of Alexandria, an eloquent speaker, arrived in Ephesus. He was an authority on the scriptures. He had been instructed in the Way of the Lord and, with ardent spirit, spoke and taught accurately about Jesus, although he KNEW ONLY THE BAPTISM OF JOHN. He began to speak boldly in the synagogue; but when Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they took him aside and explained to him the Way (of God) more accurately." (Emphasis mine.)

for BG
BG writes: "There are more than 2000 different interpretations (versions) of the Bible. Which one of these biased 'private interpretations' am I supposed to supposed to be gullible enough to believe in as inerrant? "

If you are running for political office and you want the endorsement of James Dobson's Christian evangelicals, you had better believe the interpretation of the Bible that Dobson tells you to believe.

for Robert
Robert writes: "Who cares what they think on abortion? Or any other issue. They are a small part of America"

The Christian evangelicals have always had great political leverage beyond their numbers. Because when they're highly motivated for a cause like abortion, they can turn out to vote in large numbers; they contribute money to campaigns; and they will actively campaign, ringing doorbells and telephone soliciting to round up other Christian votes.

In short, the Christian evangelicals have done for the GOP what the AFL-CIO does for the Democratic Party: Swing a lot of leverage. In 2004, Karl Rove used that leverage to win Ohio for Bush; Bush's 100,000 vote winning margin was made up largely of Christian evangelicals.

private interpretations
"There are more than 2000 different interpretations (versions) of the Bible. Which one of these biased "private interpretations" am I supposed to supposed to be gullible enough to believe in as inerrant? They contradict each other in key doctrines. "

None of them. The Bible explicitly forbids it: "Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation,"

(Some translations render it "prophecy" but since prophecy is speech or writing inspired by God and all Scripture is inspired by God, it's encompassed by that translation, too.)

for Mountain Rose
Mountain Rose asks: "How about a con-servative case against Barak Obama instead, who is currently bragging that he is showing his patriotism by not wearing a flag lapel."

Why should the GOP waste their time attacking a guy who won't get the Democrat nomination anyway?

Do you also want columns on townhall.com attacking Mike Gravel and Joe Biden too? Why bother?

Traitors Lie

Mitt was governor of the most liberal state in the country and he wanted amnesty before the got on the debate trail.

Wanting amnesty makes him a traitor to this country. Period.

Disqualified. Do not pass Go. Do not collect $200.00

Next candidate.

Religion has nothing to do with Mitt. Being a traitor to the country says it all.

baseballDoc
baseballdoc it was,,,do you know who invented the aspirin? A Mormon polygamous man,,,bad headaches.
Baseballdoc, you a red sox fan?

One cheer (maybe) for Romney
I don't expect to vote for Mitt Romney in the GOP primary; I plan to vote on principle for Ron Paul, though I know he won't win. I dont find anything remotely exciting or inspiring about Romney, who the Cato Institute calls a "big-government Republican," (and we have plenty of those already).

However I'll say this much for Romney; I think I could stomach voting for him in the general election as the "lesser evil" to Hillary. This is significant (to whatever extent my single vote is significant at all) because I *won't* vote for either Giuliani or McCain, even to stop Hillary. Both of them have shown too much disdain for various Consitutiional rights and too much eagerness to continue and expand an amorphous, wildly thrashing "war on terror" that threatens to do more damage to our freedom and national interest than to our radical Islamic enemies(who do exist, but IMO are not the all-encompassing deadly threat to our very existence they are cracked up to be by war hawks.)

Romney may yet say or do something that will put him, along with Giuliani, McCain and nanny-state advocate Huckabee, in the category of candidates I find totally unacceptable. But until then, I suppose I'll root, very quietly and unenthusiastically, for him to win the GOP nomination.

ROMNEY HAS LOST THE GAY VOTE

.....The Log Cabin Republicans have come out with an anti-Romney ad ...

.....Probably because he said he would support an Amendment recognizing marriage as a union between a man and a woman only ...

...Giuliani supports gay marriage or Civil unions and who cares what McCain thinks ...

...Thompson said it should be left to the States to decide ...which means we could end up with 50 different kinds of marriage ...would Thompson have left the issue of slavery up to the States if he had been around in 1860? ...

.....Marriage is too important to be left to the States to decide ...it should be a National issue and made uniform throughout the Country .....COLOSSUS

Mr. Hawkins:
To say Americans won't (or are you suggesting we should not?) vote for Mitt because he's a Mormon is the same as saying Americans wouldn't vote for a fat man to be president, despite his superb qualifications -- but because he's fat.

Absurd, right? Of course it is. The GOP choices are plain:

Giuliani, who allows himself to be interrupted by his wife via cellphone during an NRA conference, and who has said he would allow Lady Judith to sit in on Cabinet meetings if he is elected; or

McCain who is, in my opinion, still rattled from being a POW in Viet Nam; or

Thompson, whose attitude seems to be, Why should I care enough to debate my fellow Republicans? That and the fact that he looks and sounds like a Mississippi mortician.

We need an iron man in the White House. The next man -- I repeat, MAN -- to be elected president will have a daunting hand-off from George W. Bush, and the only man in this line-up to handle that hand-off is Mitt Romney.

I'm Russian Orthodox, and I don't give a damn that Mitt is a Mormon. All I care about is his executive ability, his readiness to make decisions, and his fearlessness to fight terrorists.


FREETOTHINK

.....Your posts suggest a mormon joke ...

...Q. What is the main difference between a Christian and a Mormon? ...

...A. Christians believe that they will suffer in Hell for sins commited here on Earth ...

...Mormons believe in suffering here on Earth for the sin of marrying multiple women ...hahaha .....COLOSSUS
...

Religion a Joke!
What religion a politician is these days is irrelevant b/c I have yet to meet a politician that actually believes and practices the tennets of his/her faith. Anyone out there who actually thinks JFK was a real Catholic needs help. JFK's religious beliefs, lifestye decisions, and politics were so far from anything Catholic the fact that he declared himself "Catholic" is a complete and utter joke. Rarely, do people in politics have the moral courage to stand up for their so called Faith. They'd rather be popular than right.

Here's what I like
I like the fact that the GOP is in a nation-wide meltdown.

I like the fact that the Republican candidates for Potus are bickering and fighting one another.

I like the fact that NONE of the GOP candidates for Potus appeals to conservatives.

I like the fact that the Democratic candidates for Potus have raised more than 100 MILLION over and above what the GOP candidates have raised.

I like the fact that the Democratic party's campaign committees for House and Senate have DOUBLED what the GOP committees have raised.

I love the fact that the previous "I like" statement is the first time the Democrats have ever had an advantage like this. Ever.

I LOVE the fact that Hilary will be the next Potus, Billy will the First Dude, and all will be well again in America...civil rights restored, no more torture, which is un-American as it gets (being as we executed Nazis for doing what Bush has been doing), no more take from the poor and give it to the rich, no more "no-bid" contracts for GOP buddies, no more wanton unneeded wars by idiotic incompetent warmongers, etc and etc and on and on and on...

peace

I love America!


Nancy - you're kidding, right?
Romney's values are one of his strongest character traits. Heads and shoulders above more than few that are running, including Fred.

It's a testament to Romney that the only thing she can find to complain about is the fact that Romney took the family dog on a trip.

Nancy, you may need to get out more.

Mitt's Church: acceptable to Sen McCai
John McCain, an unbaptized Baptist, had this to say on September 30th: “People are raising … concerns about Mitt Romney’s Mormonism, which some consider to be outside the Judeo-Christian tradition. I believe that the Mormon religion is a religion that I don't share, but I respect. More importantly, I've known so many people of the Mormon faith who have been so magnificent. I think that Governor Romney's religion should not, absolutely not, be a disqualifying factor when people consider his candidacy for President of the United States, absolutely not."

Mitt's Church is 1st Century Christian
The Church of Jesus Christ (LDS) is often accused by Evangelical pastors of not believing in Christ and, therefore, not being a Christian religion. This article http://mormonsarechristian.blogspot.com/ helps to clarify such misconceptions by examining early Christianity's comprehension of baptism, the Godhead, the deity of Jesus Christ and His Atonement.”

The Church of Jesus Christ (LDS) adheres more closely to First Century Christianity than any other denomination. Perhaps the reason the pastors denigrate the Church of Jesus Christ (LDS) is to protect their flock (and their livelihood), and they're afraid Mitt as President would lend the Church acceptability.

Mitt Romney
CharlieS writes: "They said the same thing about a Catholic becoming President."

Being 67 years of age, I remember well the media campaign against electing a Catholic president.

I do not support Mitt, but it has NOTHING to do with his being a Mormon. It is because he was for shamnesty UNTIL THE DEBATES BEGAN, I will NOT vote for ANYONE who supports the ILLEGAL ALIENS and their quest for citizenship.

There are only THREE candidates against ILLEGALS getting citizenship: PAUL, TANCREDO and HUNTER. Not a single democrat!

Bluepiper
sounds good to me, how are you different being out of the Mormon church verses your life now?
If too personal, sorry.
Most Mormon's I've know are really good people.
They seem to have The love their follow man down, with the exception of CharlesS.

The hate seems to come from the so called christian side, too bad, they can't get alone. Just glad the leave me alone, bothsides.

Any church who would have me as a member, is not a church I would join.

Asterix
makes all these claims about the "religious bigotry" by Christians who speak against Mormanism, yet he doesn't seem to understand that the true Christian has a lot more concern for the spiritual welfare of people than for their material welfare. And the true Christian discerns against false teachings. Would you call Paul or Jesus "religious bigots" because they exposed false teachers and false gospels? The word "bigot" or "bigotry" is an emotionally driven excuse to not think and to make an ad hominem attack where no other response can be made. It trumps reason.

Romney and Mormon faith
Why is this same question not being asked of the Muslim candidate?

You must be kidding with the premise of this article.

His message is being muddled because of former votes and actions not because of religious dogma.

I want the same analysis of the Muslim Borat Obama.

It's not about being a Mormon
It's about committment to his values. He takes them off and puts them on with ease. If they don't wear well for the current competition, remove them, hang them in the closet, and bring them out again when the environment changes.

What kind of caring person puts the family pet in a crate on top of the car, stresses the dog so that it has a bout of diarrhea, stops because the kids point out the stream going down the back window, hoses the dog and car down at a gas station, puts the dog back in the crate (wet) and resumes down the highway with a now wet and cold dog in the crate on top of the car. And he says the dog loves it. Really.

I don't trust his judgement. I don't trust his committment to anything. I don't believe he is who he says he is.

Charisma? Are you kidding.

Mike Huckabee has charisma. He's a true Conservative. He's got the credentials and he's true to his values. He's the real deal!

Christians won't vote for a Mormon
What the survey really shows is that over 50% of American "Christians" use their religion to mask their own bigotry. Bigotry allows you to feel good about your hatred without bothering to have any real facts. Hating anyone because of his/her race, sex, or "sexual orientation" is recognized as bigotry. Why are we afraid of calling RELIGIOUS BIGOTRY what it is?

I am a Christian. I am not a BIGOT. I am ashamed of my so-called Christian brothers and sisters who are BIGOTS!

Pathetic Article
This is nothing more than a borrowered hit piece on Romney and it's laughable that they are posting it at Townhall. The author's argument loses strength as he never adequately compares Romney's positions to his counterparts: Rudy and Fred. Rudy is far more of a liability than Romney in the national election--a large majority of the evangelical block are not willing to support him--that alone makes Romney a better candidate. With regards to Fred, anyone who hears him speak quickly realizes that he would get eaten alive by Hillary. Frankly, he is an embarrasment. That being said, Romney is the man who can win in 2008.

No more MBA presidents, please
There are about 10 reasons I couldn't vote for Romney, and religion isn't even on the list. The man has the spine of a sea slug and will say anything to get elected. Much has been made of his business expertise, but the companies he's run don't actually make anything or do anything (to my knowledge); Warren Buffett has assessed this situation pretty accurately. The manufacturing sector in Taxachusetts shrunk by about 15% while he was in office. He's totally off the mark on tax reform. I don't trust his recent epiphany on gun rights.

That, and: if he ever runs out of Vitalis, his head probably will explode.

If he's the nominee, I'm voting for a third party candidate. He's the only Republican about whom I could say this.

I don't see a flip flopper........

I think he's painted that way by the opposition. Personally, while I like Hunter and Huckabee, I am realistic enough to throw any half way good towel in Shrillary's face.

I really like this article ...

John Hawkins writes an excellent critique of the candidate Romney. The "road-to-Damascus conversion to conservatism" is just brilliant sarcasm in reference to Romney's flip-floppery being almost 'Kerriesque' in magnitude.

The TV ads
Can't you imagine them already?

"I was for (gun control, abortion rights, open borders) before I was against it (them)."

Too many of the "top-tier" candidates have a John Kerryesque problem with the flip-flopping pandering. This is a problem for many conservatives, whether some of you elect-a-Republican-no-matter-who posters want to recognize it or not. We refuse to buy a pig in a poke. Been there, done that.

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."...Albert Einstein

I say all of the 1st tier group
should step down and let us hear from the others. Those among the so called 1st tier have so many negatives, that none of them can even win a consensus in the TH community.

Rudy - Liberal
Romney - Opportunist
McCain - Rhino
Thompson - Uninformed

Don C

It's not the religion
The problem is the candidate does not seem to have a lot of closely held positions on anything. Like Hawkins said, he has flipped so much that the flops can't keep up! We hav already had one President try to run a war by opinion polls (Johnson) and one who tried to govern by polls (Clinton) so why should we support another in that mold? I simply don't trust Romney's politics enought to support him in either a primary or general election.

How so?
"A very good case can be made that the Original Gospel was lost even before the Judaizers, Hellenists, Gnostics, Adoptionists, Arianists, Marcionists, Montanists, Nestorians and other divisions disputed key doctrines."

How did you arrive at this conclusion?

"There are more than 2000 different interpretations (versions) of the Bible."

Can you give us your background on textual criticism?

forget it
I'd never vote for Mitt, and religion is about 9th on the list of reasons why. He's a leftist.

Catholics
Are not the original church. Roman Catholicism came into existence a couple hundred years after Christ and they were the ones that became apostate by worshiping Mary, talking to the dead, worshiping wafers as idols, etc. If you want to know what Christianity is as defined by the Bible, try reading it. But the Mormons have a man for their god, who had sex with Mary to provide a body for their Jesus, who just happens to be the brother of Satan. Mormons believe they will all become gods if they are good enough. Find any of that in the Bible, or even in the Book of Mormon!

I used to be a Mormon, and am now a Bible-believing Christian. We should be worried more about eternal life than about the comforts of life on this earth. If you really look at the candidates, is there that much difference between any of them? They are all crooks and all will bring the country more into debt and make more rules to have us living under the government nanny as we kowtow to special interest groups and homosexuals.


Mr Hawkins......
......wrote to get us stirred up, and I hope not to support some other candidate like Rudy. Well, he got us stirred up, and without counting it appears like about 90% of this mornings TH posters are of the similar opinion as a couple of columns yesterday.

Open mindedness, and looking for a president, not a choir leader. i wouldn't give you two cents for John Kennedy, but being Catholic had nothing to do with his presidency. Being a former military man and being from a very liberal big money family did. He was certainly not loyal to his wife (open secret), and neither was the southern (like me) Christian (between parentheses) Bill Clinton.

What would rock this country back on it's haunches would be to have Hitlery as president.

I don't "know" how conservative and non CFR mitt Romney is/would be, but he is a Heck of a lot more competent as a leader than any of the other geniuses running in either party. Besides, all a president can do is give out executive orders. Congress decides where the country is going along with too dammed much help from the Supreme court.

I don't know about you, but I am working up to trusting this Mormon. Every Mormon and former Mormon I ever met was hard working, trustworthy and never pushed his religion on me. Now if a Jehovah's witness wanted to be president I would have a harder time believing that he or she was a sane person. But a Mormon, no I don't think that would bother me for more than two minutes.

Now an Obama bin Laden or a Shrillary Hitlary, that more than bothers me. What I want and the country needs are one and the same. A competent, intelligent, industrious and clued in America loving person with leadership abilities. I don't care if he/she is purple with pink polka dots, they had better love and respect what this country was, is and had better be in the future.

I don't know about you
but I have not been this excited about a field of candidates since I have become a Republican during the Reagan administration.

I agree we want a prolife candidate, but there are other issues, and we definately don't want to have to listen to the Shrillster for 8 years.

I like Romney, but I would also be delighted if Rudy, Fred or even some of the so-called "second tier" candidates got the nod, as long as they can beat Shrillary.

Bluepiper writes:
"These people (LSD) will spend eternity in hell unless..." "I would prefer to save people from the LDS hell and have a bad president."

Then let them spend eternity in hell because the rest of us won't. If you and others like you "prefer...a bad president" and contribute to the election of HELLary then we "good people" will spend the rest of our lives in hell on earth

ROMNEY HIT PIECE

.....Hawkins ...

.....Whose your horse in the race ...Hillary? ...

.....Let's tackle the religious issue ...what is the definition of a cult? .....A case could be made that all the religions that broke away from Rome and the Catholic Church are technically cults ...the one thing they all have in common is that they accept the teachings of Jesus ...I believe this applies to the mormons as well ...

.....Well the Mormons used to follow the Old Testament practice of polygamy you say? ...well Christians used to burn witches and heretics at the stake I say ...are either of these practices being used today? ...No! ...well let's move on ...

.....A USA Today poll says that 24% of all voters will never vote for a mormon ...that means that 76% of all voters might ...Romney only needs 51% ...

.....Similiar polls have said that 43% of voters will never vote for Hillary ...the numbetrs are in favor of Romney ...

.....Christians won't vote for a man who "used" to be pro-choice ...but they will allow a woman who favors partial birth abortion to become President? ...Hawkins your arguements do not hold water .....COLOSSUS

PS: I wonder how Obama's wife would feel
if Barak demonstrated his love for her by taking off his wedding ring and toss it in a drawer?

Why don't we ask the soon-to-be-former Mrs. Villaraigosa how she felt about the Mayor taking off his wedding ring?

How much worse if he went around bragging about it the way Obama brags about refusing to wear an American flag?

TH If Republicans would stop acting like
self-righteous, self-proclaimed experts, the GOP has a number of candidates who could win the nomination and beat Hillary. We are fortunate to be in that position. Rudy could do it, and so could Mitt. Probably Fred too. Maybe even Huckabee.

Fortunately, the people on Town Hall represent maybe a few hundred people, and without doubt, the absolute most conservative, right wing of the bunch. Not that that's bad, but -- it's not representative of Republicans in general, and Republicans in the general population who, like many of us, will in the end support any nominee of the GOP to suppress and defeat that wild woman Hillary.

I hate to say that people here need to start acting a little more like Democrats, but I do believe that. Democrats support their party's nomination, be in Hillary, Barack, Chris or anyone else. That's because they want to win Washington. Many people here have their entire day's fun just stomping their feet and yelling RINO and CINO and a bunch of other stupid terms, and thinking that it matters. It doesn't. The only time it WILL matter is when they help to hand the election over to Hillary.

And while they are at it -- Town Hall AUTHORS might want to put a little meat on the bone -- unlike this particular column which is without much substance.

Case against Romney? How about a con-
servative case against Barak Obama instead, who is currently bragging that he is showing his patriotism by not wearing a flag lapel.

This is typical Leftie Orwellean New Speak.

Sure, what a good idea, Barak! Show you patriotism by demonstrating that you don't give a cr@p about America's symbols.

NOT!!!


Democratic Left Sadder Than Conservative
It is truly ironic that the MSM and everyone else, including blogs, are focusing on the unhappiness of Republican conservatives with leading Republican presidential candidates. The Democratic Left has more reason to be concerned about Hillary. What if Hillary turns out to be a warrior who puts Bush to shame? Her (and Bill's) track record indicates that she will be a warrior. After all, who bombed the Serbs over objections from Europe and Russia?

renny writes:
"Rudy...will seal the borders."

We would never know because if Mayor Sanctuary City becomes President Sanctuary Country we won't even be able to ask, let alone, detain the scores of millions of Illegal Alien Invaiders.

That's a fact, Jack...er...That's a fact, Juan.

Just a little confused.......
I'm just a little confused by the points that the author is trying to make by referring to this article.

Is it 1/4 of Americans, or 59% of Christians, or 24 % of American Adults, or 37% of Americans, or just a "significant block of Americans" who are bigots?

Is this the same voting block who WOULD vote for an African-American Muslim, a female Socialist, or a bunch of hypocrites (as long as they're Christian), or are those numbers somewhere else?

And are these bigots Conservatives, as is stated by the author in the title to this piece, The Conservative Case Against Mitt Romney?

Just wonderin'

Voting for Romney
will give credibility to the LDS faith, which is a false religion started by a necromancer and fraud. It is not Christian as defined by the Bible.

While Romney may be good politically for the nation, he would be bad for the spiritual health. The LDS propaganda machine will, even more so than now, promote LDS to the point of gaining many, many more converts. These people will spend eternity in hell unless they leave the LDS faith as I did and become true Christians.

I would prefer to save people from the LDS hell and have a bad president.

Gotta Have A Subject
Hawkins writes: "..it would be difficult to know whether he would be a Reagan Republican or a Rockefeller Republican when he gets into office." Yes, in the same way that Jorge Bush should have been known as ... at the time he was running for Prez. How many of you TH writers were warning us about Jorge? Warning us now about Romney and Mormon religious practices is smoke. The chances of any candidate from any party returning the country to better days when religious values were meaningful but kept to yourself are gone. The MSM and leftists will see to that, including the use of the Supreme Court to give us new Constitutional meanings.

Romney
"There have been so many flips that the flops are still running about two blocks behind, trying to catch up."

"Are these shifts genuine? Are they purely for politics' sake? Is Mitt Romney a conservative or is he a squish telling us what we want to hear while planning to take 3 or 4 steps back towards the middle once he feels less pressure to pander to the base? Probably the former, but there's no way to really know the truth. Do we really want a nominee in 2008 that we have this sort of questions about?"
These same problems exist for Hillary...and then, also, she is wed to Socialism and Billy.
Compare Romney to Hillary-who to vote for?- Romney's proven, morality,experence,intelligence and leadership gets this Catholic's vote, hands down.



don_cos
Thanks for the info, I didn't know the differents.
But then again I'm the idiot according to charlesS
BTW Charles do you live in Oregon?
http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,695215700,00.html

Rudy can win the election
There's a cons. case against Giuliani, too, but he can beat Hilliary.

Rudy's a fiscal cons., strong on law and order, will seal the borders, will not seek military humiliation in the Middle East.

A pres. does not have the power to do much about the social agenda. Reagan didn't either. He did not reverse Roe. He actually apponted a couple nuts to the Sup. Ct. A pres. cannot change the idiot court cases that have been ruling against rel. Giuliani says he will sponsor judges who are constitutionalists and not activists.

Christians come in many varieties. We should not get into disputing among ourselves. The secularists see it as a weakness they can exploit.


freetothink
Are you sure?

Yes.

Why are they not?

Being an evangelist and being a Christian are not one and the same. To evangelize, is to preach the gospel. An evangelical is is a Christian who actively seeks converts. Those three do not preach the gospel. Jimmy Carter actually comes the closest to being evangelistic.

Stating that you are Christian is not in the same league as being an evagelical.



Don_cos
Are you sure? Why are they not?

CharlieS, bring it bitach! Your one of those Mormon's I'm talking about,,,you sit in here hoping to make friends(please like me) and they can't stand you, and the supposed cult you belong to.
Sorry I don't have time to blog, I run a business, and anytime you want to get together, say this weekend, I know you won't be in church, I can come see you, and will see who gets quiet.
Going to be in SLC for the "come here a prophets voice?" I can make honey, just let me know.
When someone attack me personally, I want o give you the chance to do it up front and personal.
Doesn't your D&C say you should talk to your brother face to face when you offend?

BTW charles, just a side note few religions believe in the premortal life, so they don't think they where in the grand council as you call it.
And I'm the idiot.

Soulsamurai
I agree. I will vote for the candidate I believe is best for this country. If a Satan worshiper got the nomination, then I would vote against him/her for religious reasons but anything short of that will make no difference.


For those of you who want to insult Mr. Hawkins over this Mormon issue. He does not say that it would be right to vote against Romney because he's Morman. He only says that there are those who will vote against him because he is.



Freetothink
Dude, Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton and George Bush are not evangelicals.


Huckabee.....
...yep, I like Huckabee too...and I'm taking a look at Hunter.
But Romney seems a good person.

Voting for the man, not his faith.
I know. I know. You are what you believe and as the commercial says, "In a world that's called 'Perfect'...". Unfortunately the world isn't perfect.

I don't know who the best candidate is yet. I'm still listening and learning, but I do know if I end up believing that Mitt Romney is the best person for this country as a whole, that is the man I will vote for and I'm a born-again, evangelical Christian.

Just think Joseph was a Jew, quite a different faith from those he ruled over, and yet he did quite a good job at managing the land of Egypt when he was placed in a position of authority. Not necessarily because he was a Jew, but because of his character. Good thing the people there didn't refuse to have a man of a different faith rule over them, don't you think?

I suggest that we stop looking at labels and look at the man and how he believes and how he has lived his life. If they both measure up, then let God deal with his soul. I may not agree with the Mormon faith, but I respect the lifestyle and values of most of the people of that faith that I have known and observed.

In the meantime, I intend to watch and wait and learn and if anyone, including the author of this article, has any pertinent information to give me which will help me make an informed, not an emotional decision, I am grateful and more than willing to listen. I do not look at it as telling me what to do, as much as making me think about the deeper issues at stake.

Romney attacks Giuliani on economy

Who do you trust more on the economy? I would say Romney

Politico-With one poll in this state showing his lead evaporated over the summer, Mitt Romney used a town hall meeting and press conference here Thursday to attack Rudy Giuliani on economic issues that may appeal to the state’s fiscally conservative electorate.

Taking questions from a crowd full of mostly college students at St. Anselm College’s New Hampshire Institute of Politics, Romney was helpfully asked by one man to explain his differences on economic issues with Giuliani — who polls indicate has drawn even with the former Massachusetts governor in this state

READ MORE

http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/romney-attacks-giuliani-on-economy

Freetothink
I'm sorry. I'm still stuck on the Bill Clinton is an evangelical thing, to get any farther on this issue. Bill Clinton an evangelical? Why because he said so to win the religious vote. You can say you 'is' one all you want. Doesn't make you one. You can sit in a garage it doesn't make you a car. You judge a tree by its fruit. If Clinton is anything but a phony Christian who'll say or do anything to get elected, I'll eat my hat and yours too and though only God knows the heart, if that hate-full speaking, Israel-hating Jimmy Carter is truly one, I'll be just as surprised.

CharlieS
Writes:

"Then you didn't pay attention to your Sunday school lessons, or you would know that according to the teachings of ALL Christian denominations, we are ALL spiritual brothers and sisters in God, even those in the Council in Heaven in the pre-existence."

No, CharlieS, you are badly misinformed.


Very well said
I too am a Christian and while I believe that the LDS is a cult - I would have no problem voting for a Mormon over most any Democrat.

My problem with Mitt is the flip-flopping, and what I see as shifting his views to pander to the Republican base (He's got Hugh Hewitt in his corner, no doubt advising him on how to win), but Mitt also lack warmth and credibility with everyday Americans - he's may be a political outsider, but he was raised rich and priveledged. He's a member of the "elite". He'll say and do whatever it takes and that makes me reluctant to trust him.

Contrast Romney with Mike Huckabee. Huckabee was a popular two-time governor in a Democratic state. He's is genuine, he's a regular American, and he can relate, regular Americans. He's not a party hack he has an independent streak, but it's consistent with his principles and beliefs. He has great ideas and he's never wavered on pro-life issues and his conservative values.

http://www.mikehuckabee.com/index.cfm?FuseAction=Newsroom.Article&ID=59

Mindless obsession with polls
I find it hard to believe that someone would argue with a straight face that any poll taken more than a year before an election is worth the paper that it is printed on. These polls are meaningless. They are all biased in favor of liberals, and they invariably tighten as an election approaches. The only worth of the polls we see now are that they show trends.

Instead of this mindless obsession with almost worthless polls, we should focus on the candidates, their qualifications, ideology, and their work ethic. Any honest person would agree that Romney is the best candidate by far when evaluated using these criteria. If we (conservatives) choose the candidate that will best represent our interests, the polls will take care of themselves come November of 2008.

Actually, Harry
cornpone harry writes: Friday, October, 05, 2007 12:57 AM
The Angel Moroni

True Bible believing Christians will never vote for a member of a heretical cult that believes Jesus our Lord is the spiritual brother of Lucifer.


Then you didn't pay attention to your Sunday school lessons, or you would know that according to the teachings of ALL Christian denominations, we are ALL spiritual brothers and sisters in God, even those in the Council in Heaven in the pre-existence.

Those in attendance included Jesus and Lucifer/Satan.

Romney will win!
Romney will win because he is the best person for the job. As people get to know him, they will see that Mormonism played virtually no role in his administration, nor in his workplace. Except that he is honest and has integrity.

As people continue to hear about Mormonism, they will become tired and bored with the issue, and begin to look at what he has accomplished, which is phenomenal. He is without question the most competent manager of either party. He is the only candidate of either party who supports the marriage amendment. He has the support of James Bopp, legal counsel for National Right to Life, and Mary Ann Glendon, the Learned Hand Professor of Law at Harvard Law School.

If you doubt his conservatism, Google “An Open Letter Regarding Governor Mitt Romney” by Massachusetts conservative leaders.

Mitt is a person of limitless energy, who makes the rest of us look and feel tired. He will win because where he campaigns, people like him – and trust him.

Romney will win!
Notwithstanding this poorly written hit piece, Romney will win the nomination because he is the best person for the job. He will win the election because he's a great campaigner. He can get things done. He's conservative -- the ONLY candidate who supports the marriage amendment. He's competent. One need only look or read about what he did for the Olympics. He has integrity. And he is a very moral person. His alleged flipflops are no worse than Hilary's or Thompson's. He has more dignity than Giuliani. More experience at managing than any of the other candidates.

The "Mormon" argument will become tiresome to most people. Mormonism may not be for everyone, but as people become educated, they'll realize it is certainly not threatening. It played virtually no role in his administration in Massachusetts, nor in his workplace.

Romney is a tireless campaigner with boundless energy. He makes McCain, Thompson and Giuliani appear old and tired.

He's supported by James Bopp, counsel for National Right to Life. And many other solid conservatives. IF you want change, vote for Romney.

2000 different Translations of the Bible
There are more than 2000 different interpretations (versions) of the Bible. Which one of these biased "private interpretations" am I supposed to supposed to be gullible enough to believe in as inerrant? They contradict each other in key doctrines.

Besides Jude also goes on to say that there was rampant apostasy in verse 4.

The Gospel was given once upon a time, in the first century but there were factions and divisions even during Paul's ministry (see First Corinthians chapters 1 and 3) about 60 AD, not to mention the 7 churches in Revelations.

A very good case can be made that the Original Gospel was lost even before the Judaizers, Hellenists, Gnostics, Adoptionists, Arianists, Marcionists, Montanists, Nestorians and other divisions disputed key doctrines.

Besides there are other Christian traditions in Africa and the Middle East. Christianity is very fragmented on key doctrines.




Harry's Educated Response
leaves a lot to be desired. Since when is he an expert on angel names! Spell check is suggested. I don't think he's had much actual information come his way about LDS practices and beliefs as he's spouting hate-filled comments in the disguise of religious commentary. I suggest he needs more information and piety. I wouldn't appreciate any negative comments about Angel Gabriel who spoke to both Mary and Joseph as recorded in the N.T., for example. His aspersions about another holy being (whom he knows nothing about) are in poor taste. LDS people are not his enemy.

for compone harry
compone harry writes: "True Bible believing Christians will never vote for a member of a heretical cult that believes Jesus our Lord is the spiritual brother of Lucifer."

Just out of curiosity:
Do you support the right of the state of Israel to exist?

Because let's face it, Jews don't accept Jesus either. (Not yet, anyway)

Romney has to discuss faith openly
So far, Romney has been trying to pretend like his faith doesn't matter for the campaign and that it's improper to even discuss it. JFK and Joe Lieberman got away with that.

But what worked for them won't work for Romney.

Because both Catholicism and Judaism are viewed in America as more mainstream than Mormonism--nobody calls Judaism a "cult".

Romney has to discuss his faith openly in a speech and/or press conference--what he believes about God, how he regards Jesus and the New Testament, and once and for all deny that he practices any weird rituals or would wink at polygamy.

Personally, I don't care, but apparently lots of devout Christian voters do care.

If even Hillary (!!!) is now giving speeches talking about her faith, I don't see how Romney can keep ducking it. It only adds to the public perception that he is trying to wriggle off the hook.

The Angel Moroni
is a theological figment,
and anyone who is naive and gullible enough to believe in an angel named "moroni"
is mentally unfit for the presidency.What a laugher.

True Bible believing Christians will never vote for a member of a heretical cult that believes Jesus our Lord is the spiritual brother of Lucifer.

Forget about the ridiculous Mormon secret underwear. These People are worse than simple nutjobs; they are heretics who have added other "scriptures" and elevated them to equality with God's precious Word, the Holy Bible.

The epistle of Jude the next to the last book in the new testament says that the faith was once and and for all time delivered to the Saints.

Therefore: there can be no new relevations such as the ridiculous fable written by a known psyhcopath named Jospeph Smith entitled "The Book of Mormon".






Hit piece Red States
Hey Rasmussen ran a poll. If Rudy get the nomination and there is a 3rd party, guess what. Hillary gets 46, Rudy gets 30 and 3rd party gets 14. You can kiss Red, Purple and Blues states good bye if Rudy is the nominee.

Poor Fred just had Quinn Hillyer of the American Spectator rip him http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=12111

for not doing well enough.

Romney is looking like the best option. His problems are fixable and he knows how to run against liberals.

He can beat Hillary. The general will be held after 13 months of campaign. Romney will run just fine in the general.

Why Not?
apujac writes: Friday, October, 05, 2007 12:23 AM
"another evangelical
here's another christian conservative that will not put a mormon in the white house, so tag this one to your 59% and makde it 59.01%"


Apujac,
Would you care to give one or two reasons why you wouldn't vote for a person just because he's a Mormon?

Hit piece 3
The movie ran for a week and lost more than 10 million. It was seen by about a 100 thousand voters. Nobody cared about the movie and most people thought it was trash.

The anti Mormons have been hitting Romney in IA, NH, SC and FL relentlessly. Their ridiculous smears and lies create curiosity which helps the campaign.

On the flip flop. Rudy and Hillary have more flips, flops and moves than 3 Romneys. The flip flop is worn out and the campaign has moved on. It may have worked if it were saved for later but it is old news and wearing thin. Hillary is in no position to attack Romney on flip flop.

Most Religious Right voters take Romney seriously as the only major candidate who will support the marriage amendment. Besides most of them outright appose Rudy and want to start a 3rd party if he wins. Many of them are not impressed with Fred. Huckabee is not going anywhere and only raise 1 million.

Hit piece 2
The national polls (Fox included) deliberately use methods that puff Rudy and McCain's numbers. MSM polls includ results from illegal aliens, unregistered voters (adults) and registered voters (about 70%)who will not vote in the primaries. That puts a very liberal bias into those national poll numbers.

Rasmussen, who uses a likely voter screen, has Fred at 22, Rudy at 20 and Romney at 17 nationally today.

True primary voters are a lot more conservative and religious than the 70% of the Registered Republicans who will not vote in the primaries. Romney is gaining traction in SC and FL because Christians are moving from Rudy and Fred to Romney.

Romney will win KS, KY and OK when he runs a campaign there. Until then Rudy will drop like a rock now that Christians are starting to realize how liberal he is.

Where's the beef (meat of this essay)?
Are Mitt's sentences too complex? Are his policies too well thought out to be reduced to sound bites?
This blogger has missed the spirited debates going on in other corners of Townhall re Mitt and is asking kindergarten questions that have already been answered by Mitt. I suggest a quick read of the speeches and press releases on the Romney web site to bring this author up to speed.

'nite. Watch the Romney cream rise (national poll numbers).

p.s. The so-called Mormon question is an insult to the educated voters of this country and is a cheap writing trick to add a lot of words to his meatless essay.

Hit piece
Okay lets deal with this hit piece.

1. Romney can't win because he is a Mormon.

If you ask if people will support a Mormon for President about 30% will say no. If you ask if the country is ready for a Mormon President a large group will also say no.

However, we are not electing a generic Mormon. Romney is not Harry Reid. Resistance to Romney is very small.

If you ask are there any candidates who you will not support Rudy and McCain are a lot higher than Romney. If you look at Romney's head to heads against Hillary in states where he has campaigned they are very similar to Rudy's. In states where he is not well known he does not do as well but that can easily be fixed with a decent campaign.

poor mornon boy
The Mormons I've known try way too hard to be nice, and try too hard to get people to like them, Mitt reminds me of this. Sometime you need to just say "kiss my ars punk, how ted haggard doing?"
But that's maybe why I not a good Mormon boy like mitt, mmmmm.
Oh well, I just have to say the lord is my lord and savior and I can do about what I want,,, I love the grace part, never like the works part,,,took those out of my bible,,,sorry babbling again,,, Damn Yankee's!

another evangelical
here's another christian conservative that will not put a mormon in the white house, so tag this one to your 59% and makde it 59.01%

another evangelical
here's another christian conservative that will not put a mormon in the white house, so tag this one to your 59% and makde it 59.01%

They said the same thing
About a Catholic becoming President. "It'll never happen," "I'll never vote for a Catholic,"
Catholics will force their religion no us.
Yet John Fitzgerald Kennedy fulfilled none of those silly fears and was a fairly decent president.

The people that would decline to vote for him simply because of his religion need to pull their heads out of their analk cavities.
In fact I have no doubt that many of these types are the same people who wouldn't vote for a woman(the hildabeast) or a Black(B. Hussein Obama).

They are, what we in the real world like to refer to as BIGOTS. And for the "Christians" among them to withhold their vote based on the candidates religion, gender, or skin color, is to give the election to HELLary and we all know what a disaster that would be.

head to head from FL
Survey USA just release some new head to heads for FL. Rudy 43 Hillary 49, Fred 42 Hillary 50, and Romney 41 Hillary 51. Romney is within 2 points of Rudy.

The idea that Rudy is a better candidate against Hillary is nonsense. Romney and Fred are far less well known than Rudy and they do just as well as Rudy against Hillary. Both Romney and Fred have more upside potential against Hillary as they become better known. The more conservatives know about Rudy the less likely they are to support him.

The idea that Romney has to make a speech on religion can wait for the right time. All Romney needs is a strong campaign and some good press. He can beat Hillary in the general.


The Deciders

The corporate owners of The Unified Establishment Party* are already shifting funding from Rudy to Hillary. They don't care which one wins. They win either way. The RNC and the DNC are two divisions under the same ownership. The cheap labor express will be kept running, regardless of the will of the people.

That is, unless we nominate and elect someone who actually WILL secure the border and enforce the laws. It's up to us to save the GOP from itself and bring it back to its principles. The "handlers" have to be shown the door by voting your conscience in the primaries. Stop listening to the spin and hype, decide for yourself who best represents your values. If a cross-dressing, former mayor of a sanctuary city who marches in gay pride parades reflects your values, vote for Rudy. If that does not reflect your values, figure out who does and vote accordingly. We can nominate someone other than the MSM's choice. It's our country, we are the deciders.

*(h/t Pasadena Phil)
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