Townhall.com, Where Your Opinion Counts
Talk Radio:   Bill Bennett   Mike Gallagher   Dennis Prager   Michael Medved   Hugh Hewitt   
BREAKING NEWS  LeftArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican   RightArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican  
Columns, funnies & more in your inbox!
  • Check the boxes and send us your email address to receveive your free newsletter
  • Your daily must-read of conservative columns, cartoons and news. Coulter, Sowell, Krauthammer and more.
  • Townhall.com’s weekly inside scoop on what’s happening behind the scenes in the world of politics. When news breaks, we report.
  • Signup to receive the latest daily Townhall cartoons
Friday, September 14, 2007
John Hawkins :: Townhall.com Columnist
The Non-Existent North American Union
by John Hawkins
Vote on It:
Average Vote:
[+] Text [-]
 
Poll
Will the Dems' health care Christmas Present to America be an improvement or detriment to our health care system?


"I love (the North American Union theory) because if you ever doubt your own sanity, all you have to do is read this stuff and realize that you're okay." -- Charles Krauthammer

"You lay out a conspiracy and then force some people to try to prove it doesn't exist. That's just the way some people operate." -- George Bush on the North American Union

"But aside from the chilling prospect of a ‘Monster Highway’ (Why is a new road in Texas supposed to be so scary?) there’s no reason at all to believe in the ludicrous, childish, ill-informed, manipulative, brain dead fantasies about a North American Union." -- Michael Medved

Other than the 9/11 conspiracy theory, the most popular conspiracy theory these days seems to be the North American Union. Go to Google and you'll find more than a million hits on the words "North American Union." Prominent conservative online magazines regularly run columns by people who believe in this conspiracy theory. Getting emails that reference it? It's almost an every day thing...even though the odds of the NAU coming to pass are slightly less likely than a Dennis Kucinich/Rosie O'Donnell ticket winning every state in 2008.

Unfortunately, it's difficult to logically prove to people who buy into the NAU (Try to stifle a giggle here) that George Bush isn't going to merge the United States, Canada, and Mexico together to form one giant nation -- because there's no logic, consistency, or reasoning behind the theory. It's nothing more than the worst sort of black helicopter paranoia combined with naked ignorance about how our government works -- promoted by con men, nuts, and ignoramuses who think they'll increase traffic to their websites, raise money, or sell more books by convincing people that the North American Union is actually going to happen.

But, rather than just hurl more invective at the NAU wackos, let me give you a general rundown of the nuts and bolts of the theory (with heavy emphasis on the nuts).

If you buy into the North American Union conspiracy theory, you probably believe that:

* A think tank called the Council on Foreign Relations put out a report called "Building A North American Community." This was the blueprint for the North American Union.

* Additionally, a professor named Robert Pastor has supplied the intellectual firepower behind the NAU.

* George Bush formed the Security and Prosperity Partnership based on the report put out by the Council on Foreign Relations. It’s working to merge the US, Canada, and Mexico, to use NASCO to build a massive highway that runs from Canada to Mexico, and to replace the dollar with the amero. Bush's plan will come to fruition before he leaves office or alternately in 2010 (I know, that makes no sense, but just ignore it for the moment). Once that happens, you might as well learn Spanish and start to love ice skating because we'll all be taking orders from our new Canadian and Spanish masters!

Now, you may be thinking that this whole theory is a little foggy and short on specifics -- and you'd be right. It's sort of like handing someone some cake mix, a frying pan, and 4 pine cones -- and then saying you expect them to make clam chowder out of it in 30 minutes, but people are buying into the NAU by the thousands, so let's just take the theory as we find it.

* First of all, a Council on Foreign Relations task force did indeed put out a report called "Building A North American Community." However, the Council on Foreign Relations is not a government entity (nor do they even take stands on particular foreign policy issues as a group) and more importantly, if you read the report in question, you'll find that it doesn't call for a North American Union.

* Robert Pastor, whom I've previously spoken to on the phone about the NAU, is not a government employee, nor is he advising the Bush administration on this issue. Moreover, not only did he refer to the NAU as a conspiracy theory in our conversation, he has publicly said this,

"Each of the proposals I have laid out represent (sic) more than just small steps. But it doesn't represent a leap to a North American Union or even to some confederation of any kind. I don't think either is plausible, necessary or even helpful to contemplate at this stage."

* The Security and Prosperity Partnership is not based on the "Building A North American Community" report and it implicitly and publicly denies that it’s working on an amero or a North American Union. It's worth noting that the conspiracy theorists have never put forth any real evidence that the SPP is working on the NAU. It's just an assertion they've made without providing anything of substance to back it up.

* As to NASCO, it promotes business up and down a certain stretch of highway. It’s not a government entity, it doesn’t work for George Bush, it doesn’t "set transportation policy, build highways, or set up customs facilities," and it wasn’t formed to create any sort of North American Union.

* The idea of a combined currency, an amero, has been floating around since at least 1999. However, there is no evidence that the federal government is working on merging our currency with that of any other nation. Even if the federal government were inclined to do so, it would take a constitutional amendment to pull it off per Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution, which gives Congress the power, "To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measure."

The only way another nation could be allowed to coin our money or regulate it, which is something that surely would have to happen with an amero, would be if we had a constitutional amendment. Given the unpopularity of that sort of maneuver, the chances of its occurring are as close to zero as it gets.

You can go on and on with examples like this that show how there is nothing to the NAU conspiracy theory while the proponents of the theory will babble on about Red China, NAFTA, immigration, or something else that doesn't prove their point. However, the bottom line is that it is simply impossible for the President of the United States to merge our nation with our neighbors without the knowledge and consent of the people, Congress, and the Supreme Court.

At a time when illegal immigration, carbon offset trading schemes, the international criminal court, the Law of the Sea treaty, and so many other real issues that may affect our sovereignty are being debated, it's a shame to see so many conservatives marginalizing themselves by tilting at an imaginary NAU windmill. With that in mind, once all you conspiracy theorists are done fretting about the Canucks and Mexicans teaming up to take over the world's only super power with George Bush's help, those of us back in the real world could use your help fighting the good fight for this country's future.

Share:
Vote on It:
Average Vote:
 
About The Author
John Hawkins is a professional blogger who runs Right Wing News, Linkiest, and Viral Footage.
 
TOWNHALL DAILY: Sign up today and receive Townhall.com daily lineup delivered each morning to your inbox.
I've been thinking about this
Keep in mind one thing: If we could revitalize the Mexican economy by transferring our purchases from China to them, it would drastically reduce China's demand for oil (and their growth and polution problems), and perhaps give us some bargaining power with the Chinese regarding some of their geopolitical trouble making.

For Mexicans, it would offer a way to have a better life without moving to AMerica. It could be part of a comprehensive solution for the immigration problem.

It would require new routes of distribution (i.e. bigger highways, perhaps).

There: Lower gas, smaller trade imbalances, lower deficits, less illegal immigration.

Somebody get on this plan, please. Don't let the big businesses screw it up.

Whats wrong with

What is wrong with the present Highway System?

Using present US Ports John?

What's behind using Mexican Ports over American or Canadian to bring the ships laden with Chinese goods in? Then allowing Mexican trucks in, and no way to check any of their backgrounds.
Mexico does not have the same sort of driver verification as we do.

Where is the fence?



Don't tell me the CFR does not influence this government, they almost own it.
Fact of life.




http://www.cfr.org/publication/8173/north_american
_community_approach_to_security.html

North America’s New Agenda and the Response

With a few notable exceptions— such as trucking, softwood lumber, and sugar— where U.S. economic interests have prevented compliance, NAFTA largely succeeded in what it was intended to do: barriers were eliminated, and trade and investment soared. A decade later, however, North America faces new challenges that require new policies.

--First, NAFTA was silent on the development gap between Mexico and its two northern neighbors, and that gap has widened.

--Second, NAFTA did not plan for its own success: it failed to invest in new roads and infrastructure...........

--Third, NAFTA did not address immigration, and the number of undocumented workers in the United States ...........

--Fourth, NAFTA did not address energy issues,.........

--Fifth, NAFTA created few credible institutions to coordinate policy,...........

--Finally, NAFTA did nothing to address security, and........


I dare anyone to dig into this deeper and see how far it goes without needing any other thing from Congress, multipile agencies involved.

Well, this shows me
How much you are up on the Constitutional demand on Congress, and do not have a clue Congress no longer controls this.
-------------------
John writes:

The idea of a combined currency, an amero, has been floating around since at least 1999. However, there is no evidence that the federal government is working on merging our currency with that of any other nation. Even if the federal government were inclined to do so, it would take a constitutional amendment to pull it off per Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution, which gives Congress the power, "To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measure."


----------------------

Ever heard of the Federal Reserve Banking CORPORATION John?

That is not Congress, its bankers.


"To coin Money,

(No longer COINED, its printed)




regulate the Value thereof,

(Strictly under the control of the Federal Reserve, private bankers)




and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measure."

(We no longer need Weights and Measure[we have no gold to use], not since the bankers use paper fiat money, and control its value)

It's a mess!
Don't down-play what may be one of the worst things to happen to our country since Bill Clinton signed NAFTA. Call it a conspiracy theory if you like but there is plenty of substance to it. The Chinese are banking on Hilary winning so she can finish the work that Bill and George started. This is not the stupid UFO, Big Foot chasing myth that you make it out to be. It is sad to see you try to write this off as some 9/11 conspiracy spoof theory. Things may be speculated but there is much reason to believe that most of it's true.

Spin it DJ!
Don't down-play what may be one of the worst things to happen to our country since Bill Clinton signed NAFTA. Call it a conspiracy theory if you like but there is plenty of substance to it. The Chinese are banking on Hilary winning so she can finish the work that Bill and George started. This is not the stupid UFO, Big Foot chasing myth that you make it out to be. It is sad to see you try to write this off as some 9/11 conspiracy spoof theory. Things may be speculated but there is much reason to believe that most of it's true.

By the way: The Chinese
Maybe the Chinese recognize the potential problem that a stronger relationship with Mexico would create for them. They tend to think long term, like, say, George Bush. Maybe that's one of the reasons a certain campaign contributor named Hsu is spreading so much money around the Democratic Party. Just a guess, but it is something that should be considered.

Oh lordy
The CFR, NAU, RP fanatics will be out in force today on this column. We can go ahead and write it off. Look, there goes Elvis............

From the socialst Robert Pastor
Same LINK as above
-----------------


The U.S. Congress should also merge the U.S.-Mexican and U.S.-Canadian interparliamentary groups into a single “North American Parliamentary Group.” A third institution should be a “Permanent Tribunal on Trade and Investment.” NAFTA established ad hoc dispute panels, but it has become difficult to find experts who do not have a conflict of interest to arbitrate conflicts. A permanent court would permit the accumulation of precedent and lay the groundwork for North American business law.

Mock on fools
You will live to see it happen cause we have idiots among us who mock honest questions.

You got to be brain dead to not understand allowing all the illegals in here is part of this, and why GW will not close the borders and build the fence, or enforce immigration law.

Kiss my Elvis loving ***

Dear John, I will believe you when
the government builds the d@mn fence and enforces the d@mn law!

Until then I will believe that the Bozos have sold us out!

This guy Robert Pastor is a
Marxist loving, socialist.

Anyone who says the CFR has no influence on the US Government is dumb as a box of rocks, and if their brains were dynamite, would not have enough to blow their nose.

Whose policy runs the open borders?
Homeland Security and the Border Patrol? Ha ha

Gabby,These arrogant smug *******
Just really **** me off over this question.
They act like NOTHING happening even worth a honest question, that ****** me off.

Like you say, it is an open conspiracy, plans are there and being developed for it to happen.

And these idiots come to mock honest questions the lying GW criminal immigrant invasion supporting Bush will not put it all out in the open and answer honest questions.

Something real to worry about
And while the conservatives are fighting over, and distracted by conspiracy theories the Democraps are bringing back the amnesty portions of the last immigration bill. They are trying to make it a bitter pill by sticking it in defense funding bills. I would lover to see a Constitutional Amendment that forbids sticking unrelated cr*p in funding bills. That would eliminate this kind of dog and pony show as well as 90% of the pork. Of course that kind of amendment will only occur at another Constitutional Convention because none of the current lying weasels in congress would ever go for it.

http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=ZTdiMDUzNTM0YzA5ZmZmOTVlM2E1OTEwYzJlZTdiZTU=

Pro-Immigration Forces
Pro-Immigration Forces Back North American Union

I received this email today. I thought it was important enough to post here.

Please take the time to read both articles and then forward this to everybody you can. This is neither a Republican or a Democrat issue.

It is an American issue.

As if there were not enough foreign threats to our country we now have to deal with a ‘new ruling elite’ trying to subvert our democratic processes from within by hiding major unannounced legislative acts drafted behind closed doors and buried in the latest Shamnesty bill.

The American people need to understand what is going on behind the scenes here. I believe this an attempt to lay the foundation for the complete subversion of America by the “new ruling elite” under the guise of a “security cooperation” with Canada and Mexico.

It is a true bi-partisan attempt to deceive us. It does nothing to protect us.

They are trying to sneak this by the American people without us even knowing what is going on.

READ MORE

http://controlcongress.com/in-the-news/pro-immigration-forces-back-north-american-union

John...
You can talk all you want about the insanity of NAU, but can you deny that President Bush just barely attempted to push an agreement with Mexico, allowing 100 Mexican companies to drive their trucks on US highways?

Bush claims that they will be able to inspect, monitor and do background checks on all these trucks and their drivers, yet they can't do something as simple as put up a fence?

Comprehensive immigration reform means legalize everybody, so that way there will be no more "illegals." There, problem solved.

Hawkins and Medved
evidently live under the same rock. In the face of all the evidence (if one cares to look) it doesn't seem possible one could write such an article as this!

Bush administration allocates $66M
Bush administration allocates $66M to ‘NAFTA highways’

A lot of what the neocons do is simply turning our federal government into the “cabin boy” to the multinational corporations. This is a perfect example. Taxpayer money being funneled into fixing SELECT roads and bridges at the expense of other interstate routes. And they’re not only repairing bridges, they’re WIDENING THEM and creating “truck routes” in anticipation of their precious “international corridor” (a.k.a. NAFTA Superhighway) This is the same folks who want Mexican truck drivers all over our roads. And the globalists are NOT about competition. It’s all about giving an unfair advantage (at taxpayer expense) to multinational corporations. At what point does the neocon voter base wake up and say “Hey, we’re being lied to.”?

READ MORE

http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/bush-administration-allocates-66m-to-nafta-highways




WHAT!!!!!!!!!!
You have to be a total idiot to not believe what is right in front of you. You should put down whatever drugs you are using and open your eyes to what is going on right in front of your face. the NAU and the SPP are real just look around you. It is your kind of journalism that has kept Americans in the dark, but we're waking up now!

Presidente Jorge's own words
... supporting the SPP portion of NAU
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/03/20050323-1.html

Quisling-In-Chief Presidente Jorge has already secretly committed to send S.S. funds south to Mexico, and while visiting his amigos down there early this year he promised to represent THEIR interests in urging Congress to pass so-called Comprehensive Immigration Reform (read: Scamnesty at the sacrifice of Middle America and unending expense of American taxpayers). Beware also of Sanctuary City Rudy. Let's send them both down to Mexico to stay and eat tacos with their amigos.

righteous opposition:
http://www.eagleforum.org/topics/NAU/
http://www.libertygunrights.com/NAUFactSheet.pdf
http://stopspp.com/stopspp/?page_id=11
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=14965

NAU/SPP advocacy (supposedly nonexistent):
http://www.spp.gov/





Perimeter Security
As a person who lives in Kanukistan, I can assure you that the only thing that is being discussed up here (to screams and shrieks of outrage) is a form of perimeter security that would reduce the squalling and flailing about Canadians having to get passports to enter the USA. (They hate the entire idea of borders, except their own of course, which they also squall that the USA should monitor so nasty mean old guns do not get in. Not their job; they are clerks collecting duty, that is all they do.)

As for the USA welcoming in two more countries full of socialist whiners who want only to live at other peoples expense, this is as likely as you welcoming in your layabout brother in law, his current wife and their six kids, to your three bedroom walk-up apartment. Why would anybody want to do it?

If all you people who are hiding under your beds would crawl out and pick up a broom, a mop and a bucket, and a garbage sack and start cleaning up your neighbourhood, you would be a lot more help than you are making up wild ideas about breaking a siege by throwing more bodies into the beseiged city.

NO NAU?????
NAFTA. CAFTA. And now in debate with more than likely chance of being passed, FTA. These three 'agreements' together begin to erode our borders, setting up the real danger of losing our sovereignty. The first two are already in place. The third will seal our fate.

We have politicians from both parties and in both the House and the Senate more than willing to cater to illegals. It took a huge outcry from real Americans to stop the scamnesty bill. Btw, the scamnesty bill is resurfacing.

I have heard people in my area say the problem with illegal immigration isn't that bad because they have not seen the devestation caused by these invaders. Well, I got news for them. I went down to our local flea market last weekend. I hadn't been there in years. Imagine my horror as I had to wade through throngs of illegals peddling junk and flying Mexican flags. That's right here in South Carolina. For those who don't know where South Carolina is, this state is NOT a border state like Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California are. Yet, illegals are gathering here. You better believe we are being invaded.

Mexican president said where ever you see a Mexican, that is Mexico.

NO NAU? Well, I sure hope not but I'm not holding my breath on that. I see a definite march toward an NAU. We cannot afford to turn a deaf ear and blind eye to this threat.

Oh Lord....
...we are in trouble if you people seriously believe this. It's total BS. If nothing else the Canucks want no part of it. Ain't gonna happen. Not now. Not ever.

Spoken like a true liberal
"...there’s no reason at all to believe in the ludicrous, childish, ill-informed, manipulative, brain dead fantasies about a North American Union."

Isn't this the very thing that conservatives always complain about from liberals? Whenever they can't prove their point with solid evidence, they simply hurl insults to make people shut up?

MM should be ashamed of himself for using this kind of mud slinging toward people who hold the same values he (supposedly) holds.

As for the comment from George Bush (above) anyone who aligns himself with Bush as evidence of credability has lost all credability as far as most of us are concerned now. We believed in Bush and defended him for seven years and he thanked us by selling us out to La Raza.

It's the SPP, not the NAU
The author of this article is obviously trying to obfuscate the fact that the SPP is essentially an illegal agreement, since the Senate has never had a chance to see or vote on it and he is doing this by tying the very REAL SPP to the NAU theory.

Let's be clear. The NAU is theory. The SPP is REAL.

This is an old spin trick. When you can't fight the truth, obfuscate the truth by creating a real or imagined connection to something that has no merit. But, even some of the author’s arguments on the lack of merit of the NAU theory don't hold water.

He wrongly assumes that to create the amero, it would require a constitutional amendment. The problem with that argument is that Bush has already proved, on numerous occasions, that he has no qualms about ignoring constitutional limits and then stonewalling those who challenge his usurpation of unconstitutional authority.

Though I don't hold much faith in the NAU theory, the constitutional amendment argument is certainly not the reason. When SPP promoters use that to justify their position, it demonstrates that they lack any real justification for their position.

Let's just stick to the REAL issue. The SPP is an illegal agreement and Congress needs to step in and either quash it or give it their stamp of approval and do it soon. It's time for real Republicans to rein in Bush, while we still have a semblance of a constitution left.

Five Stars
Thank you, John Hawkins for giving us some facts (that I can believe -- I don't trust Medved) about the state or non-state of this "conspiracy".

People forget that just because a lot of people would like to see something happen, that that doesn't mean it is going to happen (in our lifetimes).

The NAU is REAL!!!
And the lizard people will run it.

ITS TRUE, I READ IT

somewhere

Conspiracy is Real
Conspiracy was involved in destroying American Money. Federal Reserve Notes didn't fall out of the sky to replace Silver Certificates. Someone made the decision to eliminate the Certificates. Who now owns the gold and silver that once belonged to the people?

In financial terms, a "certificate" is evidence of a deposit and is redeemable for whatever was deposited Whereas a "note" is evidence of a debt.

The value of currency today is determined in relation to other currencies of the world. International business, trade and commerce, is made easier when currency has no real value.

Joe Smith needs a job....
Joe Smith started the day early having set his alarm clock (MADE IN JAPAN ) for 6am. While his coffeepot ( MADE IN CHINA ) was perking, he shaved with his electric razor ( MADE IN HONG KONG ). He put on a dress shirt ( MADE IN SRI LANKA ), designer jeans ( MADE IN SINGAPORE ) and tennis shoes ( MADE IN KOREA ). After cooking his breakfast in his new electric skillet (MADE IN INDIA ) he sat down with his calculator ( MADE IN MEXICO ) to see how much he could spend today. After setting his watch ( MADE IN TAIWAN ) to the radio (MADE IN INDIA ) he got in his car ( MADE IN GERMANY ) filled it with GAS from Saudi Arabia and continued his search for a good paying AMERICAN J OB At the end of yet another discouraging and fruitless day checking his Computer (Made In Malaysia ), Joe decided to relax for a while. He put on his sandals ( MADE IN BRAZIL ) poured himself a glass of wine (MADE IN FRANCE ) and turned on his TV ( MADE IN INDONESIA ), and then wondered why he can't find a good paying job in AMERICA ....

Listen Hawkins......
Quote from Hawkins: "the Council on Foreign Relations is not a government entity..."
Hawkins, it is easy to check the member list of the CFR. Why should such "important" people want to belong to such and organization? The CFR has long been the subject of a vast amount of criticism, so (to repeat) why would those people linked to it? Could I belong to it? Why aren't you a member? Not influential enough? Limited to "traitors" only?

They're on to us, Gord!
That's right folks! We in Canada have been plotting this since 1867, and now is our moment! A flotilla of icebergs is approaching the Gulf as we speak. Forget Spanish, you'll all be speaking French by Christmas!

Or you can just give us Florida, which the Quebeckers have been colonizing for a while.

It's cold up here, dammit!

We were founded by conspiracy
The US was founded by conspirators that plotted in a Boston pub.

The CFR nominates like minded folks. All presidents surround themselves with CFR to shape US policy.

I remember Bill Clinton going into hiding for one week after his Monica confession. The country didn’t know if he had committed suicide, left the country or what. In hiding for one week. During that week Clinton was bashed in the press. The following Monday Clinton finally comes out of his bedroom and appears at the CFR’s Pratt House in NYC to meet with the titular head, David Rockefeller in the morning, to plead to keep his job. David gave Clinton a thumbs up and let him speak to the UN that afternoon that basically told the world Clinton is still approved. That night the press changed tactics and Clinton was not evil any longer but a victim of a mean right wing conspiracy and it was only sex, and all the apologetics began. Some Bush CFR folks that I can think of.

Colin Powell

Dick Cheney

Condi Rice

Tony Snow

Negroponte

Paul Wolfowitz

Paul O’Neal

John Bolton

Paul Bremer

Wm Burns (Russian ambassador)

Elaine Chao

Alan Greenspan

Khalilzad, Zalmay (Iraq Ambassad)

George Tenet

Christine Whitman

On & On.

The departments are packed with hundreds of these folks that stay administration after administration.

Supreme Court CFR, Breyer, O’Connor, Ginsburg. Notice how these folks travel to Europe to learn about Euro law and cite it in their decisions.

Admiral Chester Ward, resigned from the CFR stating that the group's agenda is to promote "disarmament and submergence of U.S. sovereignty and national independence into an all-powerful one-world government." The leadership, "is composed of the one-world-global-government ideologists - more respectfully referred to as the organized internationalists."

NAU
I'm not convinced of any North American Union, however I am convinced about trucks on our freeways from Mexico. It is part of the NAFTA agreement that is being implemented and should not be. There is no uniformity in standards and considering the living conditions in Mexico I picture trucks held together with coat hangers LOL! I don't think this is a good idea.

Slight of Hand
Mr. Hawkins,

There are a few conspiracy theories out there that are off the wall but look at communism which was a conspiracy theory back in the day. We obviously have some aspiring communists in elected positions in all of the political parties by virtue of the radical decisions enacted or proposed. The cold war is over. The Russians are only flying practice bombing missions so their aircraft don't rust.

Mexican trucks are needed because we’ve shipped all jobs overseas and we need cheap labor and a way for terrorists to have easier access to bring those nukes into Texas and Canada. Equal opportunity dispersal.

We need cheap toys from China, especially the lead based toys. They’re good for children and can't be seen by black helicopters when flying over your home in recon flights looking for illegal drug fields growing among farmers fields today. China needs a few more military secrets. Lets show them we are an open society. I assume you are voting for Mrs. Clinton?

Oddball theories being propagated, yes, but I'm sorry to say that the SPP is real, black helicopters really are circling people’s fields and homes doing drug interdiction through the National Guard. The toys do have lead, Mexican trucks really did roll into the US and were halted after the outcry. I saw the black helicopter thing on the local news. They even ran the story twice in 4 days.

American's are bright enough to see when something isn't right. I congratulate you on picking a topic that will incite the masses.

America spent millions of dollars on "civil disobedience programs" We have programs in place to handle such things. Just look it up in the budget.

Blessings to you and the Black Helicopter crowd!!

I filed with the FEC on September 11th as a Republican candidate for President and the FEC should file stamp it any day now, unless it gets lost in the mail. I’m fed up and so are millions of other Americans. America will not be sold out!—Martin 2008

U.S.-Canadian cooperation
During the Cold War, America and Canada were cooperating and collaborating closely on national defense for 50 years, yet each nation maintained its sovereignty.

Joint operations like the DEW radar line in Canada and the North American Air Defense Zone were vital to defending this continent from Soviet attack.

The mere fact that America, Canada and Mexico cooperate closely on issues of economics and defense is NOT necessarily preparatory to any loss of sovereignty. It's just how geopolitical alliances work--for everyone's mutual benefit.

What's fueling this paranoia about the NAU is nativist hatred of Latin America, particularly Mexico. All the fury is over Mexicans and practically no right-wingers are angry about Canadians.

And as usual, nativism and paranoia flourish when Government is perceived as ignoring the concerns of the people. In this case, failure to deal with the immigration issue effectively is at the root of all this paranoia over Mexico.

If the elite Globalists aren't trying to
erase all our borders, why are they letting all these friggin' Mexican rigs into the country?

I also want to point out the way the feds keep changing our paper money, so that it looks more and more like foreign money.

It is my suspicion that they are trying, in their sneaky, manipulative manner, to make us used to the North American currancy that they are going to replace the dollar with.

NAU
Hawkins, here's one fact and one question.

Fact: lots of quackery in lots of countries was instituted and helped to fruition by individuals or entities that were not part of the government.

Question: Does the congress of the united States of America usually consider legislation to combat and prevent nutty conspiracy theories? Do see H. Con. Res.40 and it's considerable list of cosponsors.

Think, son, Think.

SteveL- if you think the elites aren't
to erase our borders, I suggest you come here to Los Angeles and take a good look around.

Please tell me where the white people who speak English are?

I am having trouble finding them.

It never goes away...
I've heard this stuff since the 1960's:

"This nation is controlled by international bankers and an elite, SECRET group of INSIDERS. Their goal is a ONE-WORLD-GOVERNMENT! In the U.S. the President and the Congress don't REALLY run things. It's all controlled by the ROCKYFELLERS (sic)!!"

"Have you read "None DARE call it Conspiracy?' READ IT!! YOU'LL SEE!! You wannna know why Nixon resigned? It wasn't because of Watergate, it was because he didn't select Nelson ROCKYFELLER as Agnew's replacement! It set their whole plan back a decade! You'll notice Gerald FORD didn't make the same mistake!"

"Ever heard of Armand Hammer? He's in on it! This is all being set up so the SOVIETS can extend their power globally and these ELITES can FINALLY reach the goal they've been working toward for the past 300 YEARS!!"

The NAU/SPP/NAFTA/Superhighway is all the same stuff. Keep in mind, Nelson Rockefeller is dead, the Soviet Union is no more and the NAU will eventually join them only to be replaced by another bogus conspiracy. It's true; sheeple know no party boundaries. They are democrats, republicans and other likeminded losers.


Propaganda
Hawkins, in my opinion is a paid Neocon shill. A purveyor of prostitutes selling out himself, his family, his community and his nation to serve his Globalist masters for a paltry paycheck.

I love the "Conspiracy Theory" flag they run up everytime the public gets too close to the truth. We need to seize control of the Republican Party again, turn out the Neocons, one worlders and CFR members and get our nation back on track before it is too late.

These bozo's will hand Hillary the election on a silver platter in 2008 if we do nothing. At that point the SHOW IS OVER friends.

SPP
The common security perimeter, meaning we trust the Mexican government with our security, is enough to reject the SPP. Anyone allowed into Mexico would have free access to the U.S., oh wait, we already have that, thanks to George W. Bush's refusal to secure our borders.
the illegal alien rally cry
Si se puede (Yes We Can)
Yes we can:
Ignore your laws.
Enter your country any time we feel like it.
Collect benefits to which we are not entitled.
Tell you what your immigration policies should be.
File thousands of lawsuits to prevent you from enforcing your laws.
Vote in your elections fradulently.
Take your country.

President Bush could make the NAU...
...conspiracy theory blow away like a puff of smoke in the wind, if he'd just do what Congress authorized him to do, build a credible border fence.

I, for one, think the highway looks like a good idea, and I don't have any difficulty with initiatives to improve trade with our neighbors. That's sensible policy.


Duncan Hunter
Dunno, Mr. Hawkins, about your column today. But I do know there IS a Duncan Hunter, and he, as President will not be selling out American Sovereignty.

I am skeptical of 'conspiracy theories' but a strong believer in 'follow the money' rationales for why sellouts change course.

A disturbing trend
The ease with which large numbers of Americans are accepting bizarre conspiracy theories is truly frightening. Personally, I think it's a consequence of the schools completely failing to teach even the slightest ability to reason consistently.

What we're seeing is a growing ability for Americans to be led to extreme acts by demagogues. Mob rule cannot be far away.

Vouchers Now!

Why?
It is a simple question: Why, do these supposed power brokers want to create a one world government, as so may of you seem to believe?

For money? They wont see it in their lifetimes. For power? Ditto. Seriously, if you were a greedy self indulgent banker, would you really waste all of your time trying to establish a "one world government" that you would never see? This hysteria is not new my friends. These sorts of beliefs have existed for well over a century now. Will there ever be a one world government? I'm going to say no, but even if the answer is yes, the power brokers of today wont see it; it is unlikely their great grandchildren will see it. So again I ask why? When someone can give me a credible answer to that question that does not involve hours of speculation and supposition, I will perhaps give it some credibility.

psst!! listen...
This nation is controlled by international bankers and an elite, SECRET group of INSIDERS; the CFR, the Bildabergers and the ILLUMINATI! Their goal is a ONE-WORLD-GOVERNMENT! In the U.S. the President and the Congress don't REALLY run things. It's all controlled by the ROCKYFELLERS!

psst!! listen...
Have you read "None DARE call it Conspiracy?" READ IT!! YOU'LL SEE!! You wannna know why Nixon resigned? It wasn't because of Watergate, it was because he didn't select Nelson ROCKYFELLER as Agnew's replacement! You'll notice Gerald FORD didn't make the same mistake!

psst!! listen...
Ever heard of Armand Hammer? He was in on it; him and the SOVIETS. You think the Soviets are history? JUST watch Putin. Now they've infiltrated America to form the NAU! It's all part of a plan for a ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT! Bush isn't a President, he's a tool of an group of people who have been working toward GLOBAL DOMINATION for the past 300 YEARS!!"


psst!! listen...
SOME of us have SPECIAL knowledge. We KNOW what's going on. The elites don't think we know, but WE KNOW!! The rest of you can go on being ignorant if you choose, BUT DON'T SAY WE DIDN'T WARN YOU!!

inkling
Knowing by now you are a solid thinker, I do not understand why you will overlook the purpose of this Highway.

----------------------

inking writes:
I, for one, think the highway looks like a good idea, and I don't have any difficulty with initiatives to improve trade with our neighbors. That's sensible policy.
----------------------------------------


We have Ports on both Coasts and the Southern one half of the Nation.
We have both Highways and Truckers already to handle the off loading of imports from China.

Canada does as well.

This Nafta highway is DESIGNED to BY-PASS both American and Canadian Ports cause the plan is to make Mexico the Port of Entry for the unloading of ships bringing in all imports.

This is great for Mexico and their Longshoremen and Truckers, but not for American or Canadian workers.

A read of all this socialist/liberal (PUKE) Robert Pastor has written concerning this shows you the plan is to take from American workers and GIVE it to Mexico so as to BUILD THE MEXICAN ECONOMY.




READ THIS... QUICKLY!!
THEY don't want you to know about the TRUTH! Don't be surprised if they come in and remove all the posts that EXPOSE the agenda they're trying to keep secret!

WATCH OUT!! and be very AFRAID!!!

Talent Scount Practices Silly Logic
Talent Scout offers as to Congress' job of regulating money, "Ever heard of the Federal Reserve Banking CORPORATION John? That is not Congress, its bankers."

Silly logic.

Where the Constitution offers that Congress "To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measure.", it did not mean that they are to be the artisans of the work. They are regulators and legislators, not handymen.

The Federal Reserve answers to the President and Congress.


Build the "Friggin" Fence!!!!!!
I will believe that this is all an idiotic conspiracy theory when the fence between the USA and Mexico is built.

My motto is: "In God I trust, everybody else keep your hands where I can see them." Until something is done on the Mexican border, I will believe the worse.

I am no conspiracy theorist
But even I can see that the NAU is more than some rant by a bunch of whackos. When you have the leaders of the 3 countries in North America meeting and signing agreements that basically weaken the sovereignty of all three, that is not something that people just dreamed up.

As for "whackos", I will tale the word of the crazy Phylis Schlafly over this clown any day of the week and twice...no, 9 times...on Sundays. Phylis Schlafly has been in the trenches of the conservative movement for longer than I can say, and her only interest in talking about this is to warn her fellow citizens of the threat to their national sovereignty; and for that this little p*ss-ant insinuates that she is a whacko?

The real whackos are the ones that ignore the truth that is right in their faces on this issue, because it does not jibe with their globalist views.

M Sederoff Invents Reality
M Sederoff offers, "We believed in Bush and defended him for seven years and he thanked us by selling us out to La Raza."

That is a pretentious lie.

George Bush had the immigration agenda on both of his elections. He was honest and upfront about it. He tried to deliver on his promise. It was shut down in a bi-polar effort. The far right rejected it because it was amnesty and the far left rejected it because it was not amnesty.

As I see it, the only honest person in the group was George Bush. He still has my support.

This amounts
To the same direction this country has been going towards socialist goals since the days of Woodrow Wilson and the taking the power to control money and its value from Congress, handing it over to international bankers.

What this done was to install businessmen as full fledged partners of the United States Government.

This is why we have NAFTA CAFTA and their ruining of the Standard of living Americans with the Free Trade of the Americas.(middleclass)

All these policies are for the benefit of the large corporations.

Free Trade of the Americas
THE PREPARATORY PROCESS 1994-1998
PROGRESS OF THE NEGOTIATIONS
STRUCTURE AND ORGANIZATION OF THE FTAA NEGOTIATIONS



THE PREPARATORY PROCESS 1994-1998
The effort to unite the economies of the Americas into a single free trade area began at the Summit of the Americas, which was held in December 1994 in Miami, U.S.A. The Heads of State and Government of the 34 democracies in the region agreed to construct a Free Trade Area of the Americas, or FTAA, in which barriers to trade and investment will be progressively eliminated. They agreed to complete negotiations towards this agreement by the year 2005 and to achieve substantial progress toward building the FTAA by 2000. The Heads of State and Government further directed their ministers responsible for trade to take a series of concrete initial steps to achieve the Free Trade Area of the Americas. Their decisions regarding these steps are contained in the Miami Summit's Declaration of Principles and Plan of Action.


During the preparatory phase (1994-1998), the 34 Ministers responsible for trade established twelve working groups to identify and examine existing trade-related measures in each area, with a view to identifying possible approaches to negotiations.

http://www.ftaa-alca.org/View_e.asp



There is no union?
True, they refer to it as a "community" just like the "European economic community" began.

True, there won't be "one government." Just like Europe, each nation will have its own government and currency. There will just be "ruling bodies" that those governments have to comply with and possibly, some day, a common currency, "to make trade transactions in different currencies easier."

True, there won't be a lot of things they try to paint as necessary for a "union." But, Americans aren't saying that we will have "one nation," just a union of nations like Europe does. Still have different laws, different governments, different cultures, etc. But, in many areas, involving the economies, especially, there will be a "community" that answers to "trilateral commissions, boards, courts, etc."

Remember to that we are going to legally immigrate 67 to 100 million immigrants to replace the 78 million boomers retiring and our government is planning on how to not only pass that increase in quotas but how to supply them with Asian goods our consumers demand because they won't pay U.S. prices with high tax and compliance costs included in them.

We already have the NAU
Bush and his corporate cronies have already permitted Mexico and the United States to merge. The recent truck fiasco is the latest manifestation of this. Face it my fellow conservatives, Bush and Gingrich sold us out, and we will pay the price in the coming years with lower standards of living, higher crime, neighbors who don't bother to learn English, and reduced job opportunities. It is ironic, because boondoggles such as NAFTA and CAFTA and MFN status for China were all done in "the interests of the American consumer." We conservatives made a pact with the greedy devil of capitalism and we conservatives will suffer the consequences.

Why Conspiracy Theory?
There is no reason to look any further than the European Union that took 50 years to build in silence and behind closed doors for many of those years and with a whole lot better reason to believe that what is termed "conspiracy" is actually "prudence". Yes, Prudence, I said. Eisenhower said it when he warned us about the military-industrialist "Conspiracy" or Abraham Lincoln's Gettysburg address. The reason for a "New World Order"? Simple. It amounts to sole control of the world's resources in the face of 13 billion folks that live on the planet. The folks that are planning the travesty believe it and are planning to get there first -- Martin, you must believe in the "goodness" of mankind!!

Talent Scout, 11:07 AM
Talent Scout wrote: "We have Ports on both Coasts and the Southern one half of the Nation.
We have both Highways and Truckers already to handle the off loading of imports from China."

From what I can tell, the proposed NAFTA highway is a shorter route into the heartland of the US, and will probably prompt major commercial growth in parts of the country that are not already overcrowded. This is particularly true of imports from Asia, which would have to pass through the Panama Canal to reach the US ports in the Southeast; the Canal is actually too narrow for a lot of cargo ships. Offloading at Mexico's Pacific coast and trucking north into Kansas looks like it cuts hundreds of miles off the shipping routes, especially when you add in the ocean portion of the trip.

I haven't actually done the measurements, so if you know somebody who has, I'm willing to look. But that's why I think it's a good idea.

By the way, thanks for the personal compliment.

Oh, and by the way...
...building the Mexican economy is a pretty sound way to reduce the number of Mexicans who feel the need to migrate north and suck up our resources. I personally favor building a good border fence, but reducing the economic pressure that forces Mexicans north is not a bad strategy.

The American Citizen
Is now identified as nothing more than a CONSUMER.

This is what we are to the large corporations that are the partners of our government and influence all the laws, regulations concerning business to increase profits.


"It is a [disputed] question, whether the circulation of paper, rather than of specie, is a good or an evil... I believe it to be one of those cases where mercantile clamor will bear down reason, until it is corrected by ruin." --Thomas Jefferson to John W. Eppes, 1813. ME 13:409

You got it backwards Mac.

----------------------


Mac Moore writes: 2007 11:08
Talent Scount Practices Silly Logic
Talent Scout offers as to Congress' job of regulating money, "Ever heard of the Federal Reserve Banking CORPORATION John? That is not Congress, its bankers."


The Federal Reserve answers to the President and Congress.

Non-existent NAU
Mr Hawkins, Take a giant step backwards and look at the picture you've painted. Objectively, as if someone else wrote it, ask yourself: Who or what (group or ideology) is this piece shilling for?

This piece was written by someone who has willingly entered into a land of smoke and mirrors and painfully describes what he sees. But all I can hear is a pitiful cry for help, like the famous lost tribe that can only and always speak its name: "We're the Fugawee!!!"

Forget conspiracy! I'll make you a wager. If you, in all sincerity, cannot research the ideas and events (in play right now), the players and tactics being used (in front of your face) and, just as an exercise, write a more clear-thinking, convincing and altogether more heartfelt case IN FAVOR of the reality of this progression toward the destruction of our constitutional rights (the ones actually IN The Constitution of the United States) and of US sovereignty, then dinner for you (and one friend) will be on me. Deal?

Cake mix, pine cones, clam chowder? John, the lemons are out there, I challenge you to go make some lemonade. Keep it simple, you can do it!

Slow-boiling frog? Oh, YEAH!

conspiracies
The first of the Great NAU conspiracies was the Bilderberg Group of the 50s. This shadowy group of Illuminati was controlling the world through methods reminiscent of SPECTRE in the 007 books.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/3773019.stm

And then there is the "Illuminati" themselves. When they are not delving in the exploits of Dan Brown. They are also controlling the world to set up a "New World Order".

http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/NWO/Illuminati.htm

I could go on forever doling out one after another but I wont. I will simply say that the idea of setting up a merger of Canada, the U.S., and Mexico is ludicrous. Any politician who put forth such an idea would be immediately removed from office. In the U.S. and Canada it would likely occur through a recall election or, in the case of President, impeachment. In Mexico they would probably be shot. Amnesty Bush may be in favor of allowing Mexicans to cross the border freely for work and provide an easy path to citizenship but that is not a merger of Mexico and the U.S. Just stop and think for a moment. If there was to be a merger between Mexico and the U.S. why would he need an immigration program and visas?

Think about it inkling





From what I can tell, the proposed NAFTA highway is a shorter route into the heartland of the US, and will probably prompt major commercial growth in parts of the country that are not already overcrowded. This is particularly true of imports from Asia, which would have to pass through the Panama Canal to reach the US ports in the Southeast; the Canal is actually too narrow for a lot of cargo ships. Offloading at Mexico's Pacific coast and trucking north into Kansas looks like it cuts hundreds of miles off the shipping routes, especially when you add in the ocean portion of the trip.

------------------------------


With 3 sides of the nation and Canada with two, and ships carrying what 10,000 trucks would carry.

How is off loading ships in Mexico to bring goods into America a SHORTER ROUTE than off loading in say.....Houston?

How in the heck can anyone say that off loading in Southern Mexico is more efficient?

Ships hold thousands of more goods than an army of trucks from Mexico can, and cutting off hundreds of miles of un-neccessary trucking from southern Mexico.

Why would 10,000 trucks be better from souther Mexico trucking it all the way to Canada be better?

Canada has no Ports?

This is not that hard to see, it is not the most efficient way, but it is the cheapest for the corporations and their goals to build Mexico with new debt.
(fiat paper money cannot operate without debt)

Believe in
The best, prepare to fight the worse! It all boils down to one thing for me. That is the fact that both congress and hezuse bush have tried, and still are, to shove amnesty down our throats! Why should I not believe they are not capable of this? What’s next? Maybe a blanket amnesty for all future illegal aliens? Oh no, I said it, NAU reared its ugly head! If it quacks like a lame duck, it must be a lame duck! NUFF SAID!
P.S. did I mention that Mitch Daniels, good friend of hezuse, here in Indiana already sold our toll road 80/90 to some Spanish- Austrian company? Darn it, there I go again, open my big mouth and let out more Info

http://www.sternfannetwork.com/forum/showthread/t-246828.html

Yes, and is its entire purpose
inkling_revival writes: Friday, September, 14, 2007 11:38 AM
Oh, and by the way...
...building the Mexican economy is a pretty sound way to reduce the number of Mexicans who feel the need to migrate north and suck up our resources. I personally favor building a good border fence, but reducing the economic pressure that forces Mexicans north is not a bad strategy.
------------------------------------------



Its the same socialism of the "War on Poverty" that has lifted the poor to great riches in America.

How many of you know and understand Wall Street Bankers financed the Communists?

See, socialism is the method to bring about the very best of worlds for the corporations, and the highest profits of all.
Making it easy for the super rich men to buy more and more politicians, as we have today.

Vic speaks TRUTH
Exactly, Vic. This stuff has been around a LONG time. Mary Katherine Ham posted an excellent video on her blog showing the "Black-shirt-911-truthers" at ground zero on Tuesday. They sound alot like the NAU alarmists responding to Hawkins' column.

I wish these people would direct their time and passion toward church, family and community work instead of all this black-helicopter-tin-foil-hat stuff.

Let us look at distance
Of off loading cargo ships in southern Mexico and the miles from there to Canada.

Without doing a mile by mile comparison, just off the top of my head I would guess that unloading in Canadian Ports instead of Mexican just might be the shortest route of the two.
The east and west coasts of America also seem to be closer to the States than southern Mexico is.

Does the maps that plainly show this all wrong?

Vic
You forgot to throw in the Free Masons! LOL!

There will be no NAU
We have no borders, we are being invaded by illegals, but I truly do not ever see an NAU being the underlying TWIST in the plot.

Ten years from now, if you see me eating a hamburger at Le McDonald's with a side of refried beans covered in maple syrup, then, you can tell me "I told you so!"

Wow!
This thread has gone off the ranch!!!

Lolo
I couldn't talk about them because I used to be one.

Read 'Creature from Jekyll Island'
This book is extremely well-documented and explains in detail how the Federal Reserve was created to control the money supply and move us closer to a '1984' type of One World Government. I believe that there are conspiring men in our day who want to destroy our liberties and it won't happen all at once or even in just a few years. These men are extremely patient and have been moving us toward One World Socialism for more than a hundred years now. I don't think we need to panic, but we do need to act in a deliberate manner to take back our freedoms. The way to do this, in my opinion, is to wake up and learn correct principles, get financially free, so that we are not slaves to our jobs. Then we can have the time and money to become more involved in our civic responsibilities. Only a free people can defend freedom. Go to http://www.freecapitalist.com and listen to Rick Koerber talk about these principles and how you can become free. His show is from 5-7pm Mountain Standard Time.

Shells
Refried Beans and Maple Syrup???? I hope there will be plenty of vacant tables around you! LOL

Directly from "black helicopter"
Headquarters
I just looked at the map and now see how much closer the Deep Water Ports in Southern Mexico as much closer to Kansas City Missouri, than Houston and San Franciso, San Diego are.

And much closer to Winnipeg and British Columbia, and all Canadian Provinces.

Well,
I won't have to waste any time reading this clown again.

FUNNY
How some liberals think its ok to leave open borders so we can help bolster another country’s economy to help the down trodden people, but they have no problem with yanking the troops out of Iraq and leaving it to another blood bath the U.S. would be responsible for-see Vietnam circa 1975 I was just talking to one such person and it really amazes me to no end! NAU may or may not be real, i don't wear a tin foil hat, but i do think bush and congress are up to something!

Mr Hawkins
Was a consultant for Duncan Hunter,so I really don't understand this article, since Duncan Hunter was the Rep. who fashioned the bill to stop construction of the Super Highway.

Maybe this is why he is no longer a consultant, because his views were so different from Mr. Hunter's.

Those helicopters are a shade of Grey...

Nobody uses black, just shades of gray/grey. My favorite color for confusing the issue. Is it a dirty white or is it a very dark gray. Why, of course, it's gray. Want to make it almost invisible in the twilight where so much governmental work is done; make it an appropriate shade of grey. Grey is nice. It's the first color before deep dark and the first color before the dawn. Now you see it now you don't.

How is the trick done.??. Find something to distract all those who are carefully watching the Magician do his work. They are just waiting to say, ahah.., I told you so. But the Magician does things with his hands and with prearranged stage tricks of vision such that you don't see what he actually is doing until it's done.

Let's send Mr Hawkins to the back of the room and have him turn his desk to face the rear corner. He's either daft or well paid to assist the Magician. Concord and Lexington. Start studying small wars and guerrilla combat tactics.

They are blowing up gas pipelines right now in Mexico, and those are leftist small timers costing the national economy at least 100 million dollars a day, in Mexico.


North American Union
John Hawkins rambles on to poo-poo a NAU conspiracy, then shoots his argument down in flames in his final paragraph:

"At a time when ... so many other issues that may affect (sic) our sovereignty are being debated ..."

First, a conspiracy exists when plans and agreements are made in secrecy, when the substance of those meetings are hidden from the public scrutiny, and when ridicule and outright lies belitle or deceive those who want honest information. Does NAU, FTA, and all those other acronyms fit this definition?

Second, the actions of our political leaders (of both major parties) are rife with examples of conspiring to enact legislation to benefit other countries at the expense of American citizens. Can anyone (incl you left-wingers) think of a single example to demonstrate this?

Third, the current crop of DC politicians have more than adequately proven a willingness to enact legislation in total opposition to the wishes, and to the detriment, of American citizens. Is there any sane person who believes they would hesitate to propose a constitutional amendment?

Fourth, the Trans Texas Corridor (TTC) is - according to some - a "good idea". Forget that it takes property from Texas citizens and gives it to a foreign entity! Forget that Texas will will NOT benefit financially from the TTC for 50 years. Forget the TTC agreement was made in private - and the details are still secret - and thet Texas' citizens will suffer as a consequence. Now answer this question: Do you really believe that the TTC will end in the middle-of-nowhere on the Texas-Oklahoma border and that it is NOT a precusior to NAU?

Finally,have our politicians an financial institutions sold out (or are in the process of selling out) America? Is ANY of the current candidates for president honestly and consistently opposed to these measures? If so, work for and vote for that person!

All consumers rejoice
Happy days ahead for really cheap prices on goods


Chinese company, Hutchison Whampoa Ltd., the huge Chinese shipping conglomerate (which also controls the ports on both ends of the Panama Canal and the other above-mentioned facilities), controls several major ports, including those in Manzanillo, Veracruz, Michoacan and two ports in Ensenada.
.

At one time, America and Britain owned virtually every strategic sea-lane trade route and choke point around the globe.

“They shall besiege you at all your gates until your high and fortified walls, in which you trust, come down throughout all your land; and they shall besiege you at all your gates throughout all your land which the Lord your God has given you” (Deuteronomy 28:52; .






What black helicopters?
Why is it that the minute someone questions the funny stuff that is going on he is immediately lined up with black helicopters? What the hell is a black helicopter, and what do they have to do with anything? I fully believe in the idea that a North American Union is being planned because the evidence is all over the place and right out in the open--and the only helicopters I ever saw were gray or blue.

What black helicopters?


Why is it that the minute someone questions the funny stuff that is going on he is immediately hit as a believer in black helicopters? What the hell is a black helicopter and what do they have to do with anything? I fully believe that a North American Union is being planned because the evidence and proof is all over the place--and the only helicopters I ever saw were gray or blue.

Naivete, thy name is John
People have pretty much summed it up. Bush has done everything that he can to block any type of affirmative response to keeping illegals out. His willingness to allow the two border patrol agents to rot forever in prison for doing their job while rewarding the drug smuggler sums up this entire presidency.

A rose by any other name...
Its not killing a fetus....its abortion

Its not theft.....its eminent domain

Its not socialism.....its universal healthcare

Its not a swamp.....its wetlands

Its not preventing adequate housing from being built.....its open space

Its not a North American Union.....its just a plan to help people and services travel freely through the borders without needing to comply with their country-specific laws

....and now back to American Idol.

Quick madison quote
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgement of freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments by those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations."

- James Madison

Talent Scout, distances
I haven't got the tools to do correct measurements, but from what I can tell from internet-based maps and statistics:

1) For Asian traffic, Houston is out of the question, compared to the Mexican Pacific. You'd have to travel an extra 600 miles south to Panama, go through the canal, and then travel 1500 miles north to get to the US Gulf Coast. Shipping costs money.

2) Vancouver vs Mexico seems like a wash, but Vancouver's port is probably not large enough to handle a large percentage of the traffic. They did 67 millions tonnes last year, which is about 1/3 of what Los Angeles does on a yearly basis.

3) Los Angeles would be the best shot. An article I'm reading right now says the land distances from LA - Kansas City are the same a from the Mexican coast to Kansas City. The sea miles to Mexico are longer; but apparently the shipping costs are lower. I'm guessing that has to do with union scale.

http://www.monthlyreview.org/0206vogel.htm

Sum: kinda looks like the NAFTA highway is an instance of outsourcing to foreigners to avoid union scale, financed by the government.

I'll think about this. I don't like unions, but I also don't like government-subsidized roads; both distort the market. I'm not sure how I feel about the US government spending $100 billion in highway development to bust the Longshoreman's Union. Doesn't sound all that sensible to me.

the TRUTH about Duncan Hunter
"He (Duncan Hunter) did co-sponsor the Anti NAU Resolution, and I think he has been involved in other anti NAU/SPP/NAFTA Superhighway legislation."

IF this is true, I applaud him. I hope his resolution(s) passes unanimously.

Duncan Hunter's a good man and a man of stellar integrity and kindness. I'm sure this is his compassionate method of trying to calm down the good-hearted conspiracy nuts who are being duped by the charlatans stirring up gullible sheeple.

If Hunter's Anti NAU resolution passes, maybe Hawkins' final wish can come true: "...once all you conspiracy theorists are done fretting about the Canucks and Mexicans teaming up to take over the world's only super power with George Bush's help, those of us back in the real world could use your help fighting the good fight for this country's future."

Talent scout, re socialism
Concerning the boost to the Mexican economy, the NAFTA highway project is not like the war on poverty. Though there are federal dollars involved, the jobs that are created are commerce-centered and part of a real economy, not make-work. The only socialistic part of the project that I can see is the government subsidy of the highway.

I just wonder if anybody's thought through how much shippers are going to pay Mexican officials in the form of obligatory bribes.

George W Bush, let me be clear
I don't think Hawkins is trashing Hunter; I think Hunter is using HIS position to trash/mollify/SILENCE the nutters in his constituency who have bought INTO this stinking-pile-of-garbage, i.e. the NAU.

I can only hope Hunter/Tancredo/Paul will succeed.

Does not compute
inkling_revival writes:
2:22 PM
Talent Scout, distances
I haven't got the tools to do correct measurements, but from what I can tell from internet-based maps and statistics:

1) For Asian traffic, Houston is out of the question, compared to the Mexican Pacific. You'd have to travel an extra 600 miles south to Panama, go through the canal, and then travel 1500 miles north to get to the US Gulf Coast. Shipping costs money.
---------------------------------

Ok, lets take Houston and the Panama Canal off any consideration (terrible idea that it is)
How is any Port in Mexico closer to the States than America Ports?
Or Canadian?
All using trucking?

Unless the Shipping is all unloaded on the Mexican West Coast it also must go through the Panama Canal to reach the Eastern side of Mexico to be off loaded.

Why would it be better to off load in Mexico and truck in here than just off loading here to begin with?

Bman1 writes:
IDENTITY THEFT ALERT...
I am John Doe

Well I will say I don’t mind one little bit if many want to share that name!
I am John Doe # 110.675.971

From Dubai Ports Deal to OPEN Borders
Yep, just a figment of my imagination that the US 'Givernment'(not a typo) would be sneaky enough to sell our ports to the very people who want to Kill Us!! And leaving the borders not only wide open after 9-11, but HANG an 'ALL ARE WELCOME' sign that implores the entire world to COME ONE ,COME ALL! And have George Bush align himself with the moronic TED Kennedy , yep that sounds feasible to me, how about you?
Just who are you gonna believe me or YOUR LYING EYES!!

From Dubai Ports Deal to OPEN Borders
Yep, just a figment of my imagination that the US 'Givernment'(not a typo) would be sneaky enough to sell our ports to the very people who want to Kill Us!! And leaving the borders not only wide open after 9-11, but HANG an 'ALL ARE WELCOME' sign that implores the entire world to COME ONE ,COME ALL! And have George Bush align himself with the moronic TED Kennedy , yep that sounds feasible to me, how about you?
Just who are you gonna believe me or YOUR LYING EYES!!

May i add:
You really do not want trucks from south of the border on the roads in our country for one reason!
Where do you think the trucks come from? I use to haul chemicals, and past a certain point DOT will not let them stay on the road with out MAJOR repairs and at that point companies trade or sell them to firms that in turn sell them to countries that have no real laws as we do, as far as truck safety! Now i for one do not want them to be allowed to recross the border and be allowed to travel our roads again!

Pay No Attention to That FORCLOSURE RATE
FORGOT to mention...the economy is wonderful...Neil Cavuto is getting rich, rich and richer,,,,things couldn't be better! tell that to the thousands losing their jobs and having their homes foreclosed .It is only a movie ..Pay no attention to the givernment sending all your jobs to China and Mexico and India...WHAT!! They can't export service jobs!! What the Heck...we'll import the labor...We'll bring em in by the trailerload with that new Mexican trucking program,,YAHOO!!!!
Let's get rid of those Crazy Americans who expect their standard of living to remain the same or better...They got a lot to learn!!

Pay No Attention to That FORCLOSURE RATE
FORGOT to mention...the economy is wonderful...Neil Cavuto is getting rich, rich and richer,,,,things couldn't be better! tell that to the thousands losing their jobs and having their homes foreclosed .It is only a movie ..Pay no attention to the givernment sending all your jobs to China and Mexico and India...WHAT!! They can't export service jobs!! What the Heck...we'll import the labor...We'll bring em in by the trailerload with that new Mexican trucking program,,YAHOO!!!!
Let's get rid of those Crazy Americans who expect their standard of living to remain the same or better...They got a lot to learn!!

You are the only thing
Smelling up the place misunderestimated

Lots of reasons to ask some questions about this Highway and Mexican trucks being allowed in.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BEK/is_5_13/ai_n13733490
Pacific deep-water port Lazaro Cardenas gears up to become No. 1 in Mexico

Last year, Lazaro Cardenas, located in a city of the same name, moved 43,400 20-ton equivalent units (TEU). The port plans to add a new terminal, which could boost its container capacity in 12 years to 1.8 million TEUs. Today, all of Mexico's ports combined move 2 million TEUs annually. "This is a market that cannot grow too fast because it would mean taking cargo from other ports and rerouting them to Lazaro Cardenas, but this is just the beginning" says Armando Herrera, commercial manager at the port. "The important thing is that we make our projections based on real programs."

Lazaro Cardenas is expected to handle over the next few years cargo that would otherwise arrive at overworked U.S. ports, such as Long Beach and Los Angeles, which together move 10.2 million TEUs a year. "Our goal is not to take away containers from Mexican ports but to take part in the market that fits us, which are above all else the ports on the U.S. West Coast, due to their proximity," Herrera says.


me isn't "me"; i don't think me is you
me appears to live in his own little world. methinks me doth not think too much - nor often.

talent scout, go ahead and ask...
Ask all the questions you want. Just don't jump to false and silly conclusions and don't try to scare people with fairy tales.

THERE IS NO PLAN FOR A NORTH AMERICAN UNION!
(this will probably be flagged as offensive)

inking revival writes:
2) Vancouver vs Mexico seems like a wash, but Vancouver's port is probably not large enough to handle a large percentage of the traffic. They did 67 millions tonnes last year, which is about 1/3 of what Los Angeles does on a yearly basis.
---------------------

I would think what they are doing in Lazaro Cardenas could also be done in Vancouver.

Cannot see how improving Mexican Ports and the following method of trucking from Mexico to the USA and Canada is some improvement for anyone but Mexico.

Except for taking American/Canadian workers completely out of the picture.

Only thing is, it is not caring much about anyone but who profits with all this, screw anyone else.


inkling_revival writes:

Talent scout, re socialism
Concerning the boost to the Mexican economy, the NAFTA highway project is not like the war on poverty. Though there are federal dollars involved, the jobs that are created are commerce-centered and part of a real economy, not make-work. The only socialistic part of the project that I can see is the government subsidy of the highway.
-------------------------------------------------

My point is that the War on Poverty took money from one place to put it in another place, other peoples money.

Same thing with handing the trucking and shipping over to Mexico, cutting out American and Canadian workers.

Both are socialist,Government interference in the free market, and power not ever granted the US Government to begin with, but are taking it anyway.







inkling_revival writes:
I just wonder if anybody's thought through how much shippers are going to pay Mexican officials in the form of obligatory bribes.

---------
Anyone who has been to Mexico can understand why people are fleeing that corrupt and murderous country for the USA.
Still illegal though.

misunderestimated writes:
misunderestimated writes: 3:22 PM
talent scout, go ahead and ask...
Ask all the questions you want. Just don't jump to false and silly conclusions and don't try to scare people with fairy tales.

THERE IS NO PLAN FOR A NORTH AMERICAN UNION!
(this will probably be flagged as offensive)
------------------------

What a drama queen you are

No such thing you say?
Get lost

Nothing to see here, move along
John Hawkins:"..once all you conspiracy theorists are done fretting about the Canucks and Mexicans teaming up to take over the world's only super power..."

If you're going to criticize a theory, at least get the hypothesis correct and quit throwing out red herrings. The hypothesis here is not that Canada and Mexico are going to rule the US; it's that the elites of the three countries are, by undemocratic means, trying to merge their three countries into something resembling the European Union. According to this hypothesis, they don't have to take over anything; our elites willingly give our sovereignty away, bit by bit.

You mention important sovereignty fights for conservatives, such as illegal immigration amnesty and the Law of the Sea Treaty. The observation that Bush and other elites support these measures doesn't do much for your theory that the NAU threat is imaginary. Actually, it lends support to those on the other side.



talent scout
The idea that the "super highway" is a method for us to COMPLETELY bypass US and Canadian ports seems to me to be a bit naive and ludicrous.

But for argument's sake, let's say it can be done? Do you really believe that American ports will completely close down and sit idle....like a ghost town? Do you fear competition from Mexican and Canadian ports? Do you think there might be cost benefits to the American consumer, and stock holders of companies that are doing business with foreign ports?

the thought the government needs to protect some over paid unionized longshoreman's job because he can't effectively compete seems to to beg the question whether socialism the superior system to free market capitalism? If you believe so, you are most welcome to move to Europe. And I'll just wait for my check from Al Gore for not driving my SUV into work 5 days per week, as well as my government check to subsidize using the land I own to grow corn for ethanol.

talent scout, I'm no drama queen
I used all caps to mimic shouting.

We use sign language to interpret for the deaf.

We use shouting to interpret for the hard-of-hearing... or the stupid.

heresyarch writes:
talent scout
The idea that the "super highway" is a method for us to COMPLETELY bypass US and Canadian ports seems to me to be a bit naive and ludicrous.
-----------------------------
talent scout:
What is ludicrous to me is the idea China would ever control the Panama Canal.
That China would become the manufacturing base of the world.
That China would own one trillion dollars of American money for their reserve currency.
And there it is anyway.

Don't be naive and assume its another.
The loss of the manufacturing through NAFTA is real, not all of course, same thing for the Ports.

----------




heresyarch writes:

But for argument's sake, let's say it can be done? Do you really believe that American ports will completely close down and sit idle....like a ghost town? Do you fear competition from Mexican and Canadian ports? Do you think there might be cost benefits to the American consumer, and stock holders of companies that are doing business with foreign ports?
------------------------

I cannot compete with workers who work for 60 cents an hour, nor any other American I know of.
I have not said the Ports will be closed completely.

Quit exaggerating and over state the argument with such bs, ok?




-------------------
heresyarch writes:
the thought the government needs to protect some over paid unionized longshoreman's job because he can't effectively compete seems to to beg the question whether socialism the superior system to free market capitalism? If you believe so, you are most welcome to move to Europe. And I'll just wait for my check from Al Gore for not driving my SUV into work 5 days per week, as well as my government check to subsidize using the land I own to grow corn for ethanol.
--------------

That is the dumbest thing said yet, even from you.
No one in America can compete with those who will work for bread.
Idiot

America gained a higher living standard from long years of hard work and idiots like you would just give it away.

You do not have to yell
To show anyone how stupid you are misunderestimated.


Misunderestimated
You have way too much time on your hands. Find a hobby.

I'm convinced I don't get it
I've spent a few minutes throughout the day poking into shipping statistics, and while I can't see the NAFTA highway actually hurting much of anything, I also can't see it helping much of anything besides Mexican shipping companies.

If Mexico wants to grab some of the Asian shipping business from Los Angeles, I say fine, let them. They can only increase their throughput by, like, half a million cartons a year, and I think LA is handling over 7 million this year. LA will not die from the competition.

But what's the point in throwing $100 billion into roads in order to help them do it? That's a boatload of government money, and I don't see the return for the US.

I hate it when my research turns up more that needs to be researched. Darn. I leave the day with an unformed opinion.

bob, good advice! I'll take it!
Bye-bye, NAU-nutters! It's been fun. I gotta go make a living - gonna spend the weekend dispatching trucks from Mexico... :)

Dear Author-
Bush has sold us out so completely in every single way that you look like a moron rebuting those who think an NAU may be in the works. It's a very, very good possibility. PS-lose the condescension. You just might be wrong.

John
Sorry bud call me anything you want, I think an NAU could be in our future. I think Shakespeare said it best "though doth protestith too much". I've heard nothing but nasty, snide rhetoric on this NAU issue, starting with Jorge. Why not have a reasoned, adult, educational debate on the subject? Why the smarmy attitudes? Over a million hits on Google alone, now what does that tell you. I know I don't trust Jorge and the government, I don't trust Mexico, I don't know ANYONE who does. Why won't Jorge build the fence, why won't he stop illegal immigration, why won't he stand up and unequivocally support the sovreighnity of the US when those bozo Mexican presidents tell the world that "where there is one Mexican there is Mexico"? A firm proUS stand on these issues would go a loooong way toward regaining the confidence and respect of the American people.

I love the smell
of wing-nuttery in the afternoon.

Just ONE question:
Why aren't questions allowed about this????

I am most definitely with Flagwaver on this!

I have NEVER known Phylis Schlafly to be more than 5 maybe 10% wrong on ANYTHING!

So, hand me my hat - I'm on board the conspiracy express! And if we have OUR way, you will NEVER NEED to thank us for it.

Cerveza joe_sixpack
Been eating lots of beans and burritos and will have plenty to smell

again Mr. Author,
How about writing a piece regarding the complete lack of credibility Repubs carry among their own people, to the point that even Bush selling us out to mexico and canada is believable? People within his own party believe it, people like your boss Duncan Hunter who are in a far better position to see things we can't. Bootlicks like Krauthammer have no credibility among the rank-and-file like me. About as much as Tony Snow.

NAU not now, but. . .
Did anyone notice the quote:

"Each of the proposals I have laid out represent (sic) more than just small steps. But it doesn't represent a leap to a North American Union or even to some confederation of any kind. I don't think either is plausible, necessary or even helpful to contemplate at this stage."

Did you notice the last three words? I do not tend to be a conspiritist, but this does sound to me as though this indicates that a NAU might be considered at some time in the future.

I haven't decided yet, for myself, if I fully accept this idea or not, but there do seem to be some indicators, regardless of what this author and Mr. Medved may say at this time. Time will tell, but remember the story of the camel who wanted to get into the tent. . .

Whose Side Is Bush On?
Can anyone name a single time when George Bush supported the interests of the United States over his beloved Mexico? When it comes to supporting what is in the best interests of the U.S., there is no way that George Bush can match Duncan Hunter. But then, Hunter wasn't born with a silver foot in his mouth.

Anyone who would quote Michael Medved to support his case on this is a fool. Ergo, Hawkins is a fool.

Angrywhtmale Expects Too Much From Bush
Angrywhtmale offers, "Bush has sold us out so completely in every single way that you look like a moron rebuting those who think an NAU may be in the works. It's a very, very good possibility. PS-lose the condescension. You just might be wrong."

Bush was not able to pass his imigration bill, nor his social security bill, both of which were his center plate agendas for both elections. But somehow, you, and obviously others here, think he has the ability to change the Constitution and establish a North American Union?

The word, "moron" does come to mind.

It's NOT amnesty either!
Yep. there ain't no North American Union AND that comprehensive bill was NOT AMNESTY...(I have some swampland in Florida for sale too if you are interested).
By the way they are bringing it back...well, well, well......I guess the American People have nothing to do with policy in what was once their country. Say goodbye to the uSA and hello to the newest Third World Country!

URGENT!!!
CALL YOUR SENATORS MONDAY AND STOP THE TRAITORS!!!

Mac Moore; Condescension Update
What the hell does the Constitution have to do with it? When did Bush ever use it as a guideline for his actions? Why were there closed-door meetings with the leaders of mexico and canada? Why aren't our borders secure? that piece of paper doesn't stop anyone from doing anything if THEY DON'T ACKNOWLEDGE IT.

Bush sees it as a roadblock for what God tells him to do. Too bad God doesn't tell him to WORRY ABOUT AMERICA FIRST.

Bill Clinton got elected by using the fact that Bush 1 was too preoccupied with overseas affairs (i.e; blowing people up) to deal with our domestic issues. If Hillary's smart enough to pick up on that, history's about to repeat itself.

North American Union
The "conspiracy theory" has credence because the Bush administration leaves the public out of the loop. To do something controversial like the Iraq War or "Comprehensive" amnesty, the President must have the people behind him.

I think the Iraq War isn't to get oil or save the Iraqis, but to remake the Middle East as the job was muffed after WWI.

I think the "Comprehensive" amnesty program is to get low cost laborers into the system to save Social Security and Medicare and make the US more competitive with China and India and other Third World Countries. Europe will crash on their own.

If they would let us in on what they are trying to do here, we might or might not get behind him.

overestimates himself
""THERE IS NO PLAN FOR A NORTH AMERICAN UNION!""

Very convenient that you can straighten out the rest of us. Now do you have that straight from Gawd, or did you just decide this morning after coffee that it makes no sense to you that there could be a North American Union.??.

Because you have it partially right.

The full Plan is for an Americas Union of semi independent states (republics) loosely connected by a set of rules and a board of judges to see they are enforced. (that's all of the Americas)(North, Central and South)

The idea guys and gals is that we have to be competitive and it would be a century or two before they could get the public to simply accept the idea. Therefor it must be slipped up on us in full view but with other names. If it would occur between non consenting people it would be "rape".

But in this case it's democracy under other names and rules. Remember, it's for your own good.

"Politics by Other Means" by Frdo Arias-King Phd, Harvard, expert in soviet politics (and US - Mexican Politics)

http://www.cis.org/articles/2003/back1703.html

Read it, and begin to understand, you don't understand those things you thought you understood. When you are totally lost come back and ask questions instead of having your finger up your nose.


Stay away from the mirror
Mac Moore writes: Friday, September, 14, 2007 6:48 PM
Angrywhtmale Expects Too Much From Bush
Angrywhtmale offers, "Bush has sold us out so completely in every single way that you look like a moron rebuting those who think an NAU may be in the works. It's a very, very good possibility. PS-lose the condescension. You just might be wrong."

Bush was not able to pass his imigration bill, nor his social security bill, both of which were his center plate agendas for both elections. But somehow, you, and obviously others here, think he has the ability to change the Constitution and establish a North American Union?

The word, "moron" does come to mind.
-----------------------------------

And that word will stop coming to you

We are the 4th branch
me writes:
6:49 PM
It's NOT amnesty either!
Yep. there ain't no North American Union AND that comprehensive bill was NOT AMNESTY...(I have some swampland in Florida for sale too if you are interested).
By the way they are bringing it back...well, well, well......I guess the American People have nothing to do with policy in what was once their country. Say goodbye to the uSA and hello to the newest Third World Country!
-----------------------------

We the People can stop the government when we want to use our power to do so.

There are four branches of government under the Constitution, and we the people are the boss.

Do not give up, ever, only by raising our voices together can we stop the train wreck this plan will lead to.

(for the working class)

No way is this good for working Americans, not even good for the Mexicans either, just the rich of both countries.
----------

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5133441.html

Mexican group demands halt to trucking program

Confused in Detroit...

After the merger...

Do I get "free healthcare" from Canada, or Mexico?

Where are Hollywood stars going to move when the Mexicans vote for Jenna Bush?

Do we have to Nationalize "Taco Bell" and "Tim Hortons" ?

What do we call our "Fries" ?

Who the hell do we fight in the next Civil War ?




flagwaver and well, now and talent scout
I'm with you guys on this one. Something stinks.

The rest of the story
The trucking issue is merely to circumvent labor cost and regulations. The US has already given Mexico some land to use as a port. Therefore foreign countries and US companies can bring their goods to a parcel of land in the US now owned by Mexico and then have Mexican truckers move it from there to where it ultimately goes saving US mfg’s the cost of shipping it to Mexico and then back into the US to cut trucking cost. The Mexican truckers and drivers can then just stay here full time.

Our masters are so smart, it is a pleasure to be their serf.

Carlos, Et Al........

North American Union..Try "Americas Union". Or to put it another way. The Union of the Americas (North, Central and South). They are already developing CAFTA to go with NAFTA. SAFTA is just around the corner.

Sounds like the three ships Columbus used to cross the ocean. The CAFTA, the NAFTA and the SAFTA.

No merger. Just freedom to move around with your business or your personal employment or your home address.

I realize you were very "tongue in cheek" with your post, but what is in the works is very much like treating a republic made up of states. The individual republics would come under a common set of rules and oversight. As time would go on they would lose more and more of there individual rights.

Remember the "states rights issues".??.

This would become the subject of loss of republic rights as time would go on. Just the same old same, but on a larger scale. The states (republics) would be free to have and maintain their own laws up to the point that they didn't interfere with the UNION'S rights.

Remember the war to save the union.??.

Same old same old. Any individual states (republics) or groups of them that would become "uppity" would have a "civil war" on their hands and be opposed by the other republics, members of the union. Not very much ever changes.

You can someday look forward to Star Fleets going out into the universe and looking for other planets to bring into the free trade and ONE UNIVERSE UNION.

Not much changes, only the historical dates in which they occur.


Carlos - Et Al.......

North American Union..Try "Americas Union". Or to put it another way. The Union of the Americas (North, Central and South). They are already developing CAFTA to go with NAFTA. SAFTA is just around the corner.

Sounds like the three ships Columbus used to cross the ocean. The CAFTA, the NAFTA and the SAFTA.

No merger. Just freedom to move around with your business or your personal employment or your home address.

I realize you were very "tongue in cheek" with your post, but what is in the works is very much like treating a republic made up of states. The individual republics would come under a common set of rules and oversight. As time would go on they would lose more and more of there individual rights.

Remember the "states rights issues".??.

This would become the subject of loss of republic rights as time would go on. Just the same old same, but on a larger scale. The states (republics) would be free to have and maintain their own laws up to the point that they didn't interfere with the UNION'S rights.

Remember the war to save the union.??.

Same old same old. Any individual states (republics) or groups of them that would become "uppity" would have a "civil war" on their hands and be opposed by the other republics, members of the union. Not very much ever changes.

You can someday look forward to Star Fleets going out into the universe and looking for other planets to bring into the free trade and ONE UNIVERSE UNION.

Not much changes, only the historical dates in which they occur.


Gee

Wouldn't it be nice if TH got their program together, and we did NOT get these double posts. Even after using F5 to double roll the dang post just goes into outer space before it finally shows up.

Deja-EU? or ... Boiling frog part 2
A very brief history of the EU:

The EU was originally established as a series of "economic communities" after the Second World War. Originaly set up has a free trade treaty for coal and steel between countries (very NAFTA-ish)

1n 1979 an EU Parliament was created, creating a centralized governing body.

In 1986 an EU flag was created.

In 2002 euro notes and coins replaced national currencies in 12 of the member states.

EU citizens can now freely invest, live, travel, and work in other member states. Passport control and customs checks between most member states were abolished.

Individual members states slowly lost sovereign powers through a series of treaties. These treaties also established institutions and give them legal powers to carry out their assigned functions, including the ability to enact legislation which can directly affect all member states and their inhabitants. National courts are required to give force to these treaties and to the laws enacted under them, even if doing so requires them to ignore their national law and constitution.

That's not a wacko conspiracy theory John - It's Europe today. You're either asleep at the keyboard or have an agenda.







NAU
If, as you so ineptly suggest, the NAU is mearly a conspiracy theory concocted by a group of nutroots, why is it necessary for the presidents of all three nations to personally attend the meetings and not their underlings? Plus,why are the agendas of these meetings not presented to Congress or the American public.
When there are more questions than answers an wise man wonders WHY! That is the difference between a journalist and an editorialist.
Doubt has always been the begining of wisdom.
TRY IT!

Thank-you John Hawkins
I am now convinced you are right. No NAU.

Mr. Hawkins
"Even if the federal government were inclined to do so, it would take a constitutional amendment to pull it off per Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution, which gives Congress the power, "To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measure.""

Mr. Hawkins. If we are following our Constitution then why do we have the Federal Reserve who creates money out of thin air? Since the Federal Reserve is not a government entity, but is a private, for profit entity, how are they allowed to create money when our Constitution clearly says that power belongs to our government?

I look forward to your answer.

Hawkins -- Robert Pastor
"Robert Pastor, whom I've previously spoken to on the phone about the NAU, is not a government employee, nor is he advising the Bush administration on this issue. Moreover, not only did he refer to the NAU as a conspiracy theory in our conversation, he has publicly said this."

Interesting. Perhaps you should advise him then to take the proceedings from the Canadian House of Commons off his website, in which he said the following:

"Is any of this feasible? Are North Americans prepared to give up their sovereignty? The term “sovereignty” is one of the most widely used, abused and least understood in the diplomatic lexicon. Within the last two decades, the three countries have so completedly redefined the term that one wonders whether any serious policymaker could use it to defend any position."

"The question is whether the people of the three countries are ready for a different relationship, and public opinion surveys suggest that the answer is “yes” and indeed, that the people are way ahead of their leaders. A survey of the attitudes of people in the three countries during the past twenty years demonstrate an extraordinary convergence of values – on personal and family issues as well as public policy."

"The most interesting surveys, however, show a majority of the public in all three countries prepared to join a larger North American country if they thought it would improve their standard of living and environment and not threaten their culture. Mexicans and Canadians do not want to be incorporated into the United States, and they ambivalent about adopting the American dollar, but they are more willing to become part of a single county of North America and of a unified currency, like the “Amero” proposed by Herbert Grubel. The “Amero” would be equivalent of the American dollar"
http://www.american.edu/ia/cnas/pdfs/PastorTestimonyCanada.pdf

Mr. Hawkins -- Amero
"The Security and Prosperity Partnership is not based on the "Building A North American Community" report and it implicitly and publicly denies that it’s working on an amero or a North American Union. It's worth noting that the conspiracy theorists have never put forth any real evidence that the SPP is working on the NAU. It's just an assertion they've made without providing anything of substance to back it up."

You'd better inform your buddy, Robert Pastor (see post above) and also Steve Previs, interviewed on CNBC.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hiPrsc9g98

Or, you can read articles on what you are inferring are conspiracy sites. You know, like Human Events:
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=15017
Phyllis Schlafly's website:
http://www.eagleforum.org/topics/NAU/

The NAFTA superhighway
It is happening right here, right now. The first leg of the NAFTA superhighway that is being denied is in Texas. Here, it is called the Trans-Texas Corridor. Amazingly, Oklahoma was being pushed to create such a highway in their state that would just so happen to meet up with the Texas' leg of the superhighway. I say "amazingly", because if you ask your governor, they deny this highway exists and so do my U.S. Senators. Furthermore, they claim that even if it is happening it is a state issue. I would have bought that, but...

When the Texas state legislature tried to pass a moratorium on this road being built, a high-ranking representative from the U.S. Dept of Transportation visited the state legislature TWICE to inform them that if they stopped this highway, then Texas would no longer receive highway funds. In the end Governor Perry vetoed the bill.

Did you also know that Giuliani's Law firm is who made the deal between Texas and the Spanish firm, Cintra who is building the roads and who will "manage" the roads for FIFTY years, receiving all proceeds from the tolls? Small world, isn't it? In the deal, Cintra sets the level of the tolls. The state legislation has requested full disclosure of all the "deals" Governor Perry made with Cintra, but to this day, they have not been released.

For those who do not believe there is a NAFTA Superhighway, look at this:
http://www.nascocorridor.com/

Until recently, the following was the graphic on their homepage:
http://www.sweetliberty.org/issues/nafta_gatt/images/nasco_corridor.jpg

A subset still exists on their website, here:
http://www.nascocorridor.com/pages/ports_network/ports_network.htm


Why wouldn't the President ANSWER the ?
QUESTION....
"As you three leaders meet here, there are a growing number of people in each of your countries who have expressed concern about the Security and Prosperity Partnership. This is addressed to all three of you. Can you say today that this is not a prelude to a North American Union, similar to a European Union? Are there plans to build some kind of superhighway connecting all three countries? And do you believe all of these theories about a possible erosion of national identity stem from a lack of transparency from this partnership?" was the question, according to a White House transcript.

"ANSWER"....
"We represent three great nations. We each respect each other's sovereignty. You know, there are some who would like to frighten our fellow citizens into believing that relations between us are harmful for our respective peoples. I just believe they're wrong. I believe it's in our interest to trade; I believe it's in our interest to dialogue; I believe it's in our interest to work out common problems for the good of our people.
"And I'm amused by some of the speculation, some of the old – you can call them political scare tactics. If you've been in politics as long as I have, you get used to that kind of technique where you lay out a conspiracy and then force people to try to prove it doesn't exist. That's just the way some people operate. I'm here representing my nation. I feel strongly that the United States is a force for good, and I feel strongly that by working with our neighbors we can a stronger force for good.

"So I appreciate that question. I'm amused by the difference between what actually takes place in the meetings and what some are trying to say takes place. It's quite comical, actually, when you realize the difference between reality and what some people are talking on TV about."
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=57263

Duncan Hunter's Press Release
I guess you'd better tell Duncan Hunter the NAFTA Superhighway is part of his imagination, Mr. Hawkins.
------------------------------

"Washington, D.C. – Late last evening, Congressman Duncan Hunter (R-CA) successfully offered an amendment to H.R. 3074, the FY2008 Transportation Appropriations Act, prohibiting the use of federal funds for participation in working groups under the Security and Prosperity Partnership (SPP), including the creation of the NAFTA Super Highway. The Hunter amendment gained strong bipartisan support, passing the House by a vote of 362 – 63.

“The proposed NAFTA Super Highway presents significant challenges to our nation’s security, the safety of vehicle motorists, and will likely drive down wages for American workers,” said Congressman Hunter. “Much like NAFTA, the super highway is designed to serve the interests of our trading partners and will lead to neither security nor prosperity.

“This 12 lane highway, which is already under construction in Texas, will fast-track thousands of cargo containers across the U.S. without adequate security. These containers will move from Mexico, a country with a record of corruption and involvement in the drug trade, across a border that is already porous and insufficiently protected.

“Unfortunately, very little is known about the NAFTA Super Highway. This amendment will provide Congress the opportunity to exercise oversight of the highway, which remains a subject of question and uncertainty, and ensure that our safety and security will not be comprised in order to promote
the business interests of our neighbors.”"

http://dfazack.typepad.com/truth_be_tolled/2007/07/superhighway-am.html

Mac Moore
"Where the Constitution offers that Congress "To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measure.", it did not mean that they are to be the artisans of the work. They are regulators and legislators, not handymen.

The Federal Reserve answers to the President and Congress."

Actually Mac, The Federal Reserve is the organization that determines how much money to have in circulation at any one time and the interest rate at which funds can be borrowed. Not the Congress; not the President; a PRIVATE CORPORATION!!! Since you appear to think that Congress or the President controls all this, please show me the legislation that told the Federal Reserve to do their little liquidity injections that they've been doing of late.

Liquidity injections, by the way, are another way to say they printed money out of thin air and introduced into circulation. Which, by the way reduces the value of every dollar you currently hold. This is exactly where inflation comes from.

Liberty writes: 15, 2007 7:48 PM
… If we are following our Constitution then why do we have the Federal Reserve who creates money out of thin air? Since the Federal Reserve is not a government entity, but is a private, for profit entity, how are they allowed to create money when our Constitution clearly says that power belongs to our government?

I look forward to your answer.

DESKJOCKEY WRITES

First, thank your for your many postings and links on this website regarding this problem.

However as a point of information on a side issue. I am no fan of the FR or giver-ment currency but clearly there are some benefits although I don’t know if they are great enough. Never the less when the FR was created much misinformation was also created. I would suggest looking at the following by FR protestors who never the less are admitting the facts and are well respected (American Institute of Economic Research) .

http://www.cooperativeindividualism.org/aier_on_conspiracy_04.html

The Fed is a giver-ment creation of congress and they do not create money out of thin air but are the tool of the treasury. Granted they can increase and decrease money supply which isn’t the same as creating money, (printing press). The printing or creating money is still a treasury function that is farmed out to the FR under the specific directions of the treasury as to amounts. The FR is allowed a limited income to cover expenses for their services however the majority of their revenue is forwarded to the treasury. This is audited by one of the major private auditors plus 2 different giver-ment auditors.

http://www.federalreserve.gov/generalinfo/faq/faqfrs.htm

For more detail

http://www.federalreserve.gov/pf/pf.htm

Thanks, John
I already used your column in Human Events to bust the chops of conservative conspiracy theorists on the purported NAU on Phyllis Schlafly's thread. Your column was excellent.

Evil Leftists don't hold a monopoly on conspiracy nutjobs.

I don't know about NAU
but NAFTA is bad enough and, yes, Rick Perry snuck the Trans-Texas Corrider through before we Texans knew anything about it..

Moonkeeper, I copied your excellent comment for future reference. I'll repeat it here in cause anyone missed it:

A rose by any other name...

Its not killing a fetus....its abortion

Its not theft.....its eminent domain

Its not socialism.....its universal healthcare

Its not a swamp.....its wetlands

Its not preventing adequate housing from being built.....its open space

Its not a North American Union.....its just a plan to help people and services travel freely through the borders without needing to comply with their country-specific laws

....and now back to American Idol.

Here is what cannot be audited
DESKJOCKEY WRITES

.

This is audited by one of the major private auditors plus 2 different giver-ment auditors.

http://www.federalreserve.gov/generalinfo/faq/faqfrs.htm

For more detail

http://www.federalreserve.gov/pf/pf.htm

------------------------------------

PUBLIC LAW 95-320
This is from the Federal Reserve site
(horrible site to find the entire truth, just the parts they like all to know)

http://www.federalreserve.gov/generalinfo/faq/faqfrs.htm

The Board of Governors, the Federal Reserve Banks, and the Federal Reserve System as a whole are all subject to several levels of audit and review. Under the Federal Banking Agency Audit Act (enacted in 1978 as Public Law 95-320), .......


This is what is NOT Audited

Prohibits the GAO from auditing:

(1) transactions conducted on behalf of or with foreign central banks, foreign governments, and nonprivate international financing organizations;

(2) deliberations, decisions, and actions on monetary policy matters, including discount window operations, reserves of member banks, securities credit, interest on deposits, and open market operations;

(3) transactions made under the direction of the Federal Open Market Committee including transactions of the Federal Reserve System Open Market Account; and

(4) those portions of oral, written, telegraphic, or telephonic discussions and communications among or between Members of the Board of Governors, and officers and employees of the Federal Reserve System which deal with topics listed in this Act.

Prohibits the GAO from conducting on site examinations of banks or bank holding companies without the written consent of the appropriate regulatory agency.

Sets forth prohibitions on the public disclosure of certain information.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d095:HR02176:@@@D&summ2=m&|TOM:/bss/d095query.html|

The auditing of the Federal Reserve
Is akin to auditing several McDonalds but never McDonalds Corporate Headquaters.

Read it for yourself, its from the Public Law passed in 1978 and the 95th Congress.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d095:HR02176:@@@D&summ2=m&|TOM:/bss/d095query.html|

The way the Fed creates money
OUT OF THIN AIR

Congress has a yearly budget set by the President.
If this budget is not enough to cover everything(and never is these days)the Congress just ignores the budget and spends money it does not have.
This is called deficit spending.
To do this they create A US Treasury Note. A Bond

To change this new debt into cash, Congress gives it to the FED, who then call it a Securities Asset.
(actually debt, but that is how fiat paper works)

Which now is considered and Asset by the FED, not a deficit.
From this new asset the FED writes Congress a check.
This check can now be turned over to the US Treasury and dollars printed off.

And who pays for this debt?

Me and you, this is where our income taxes go, as we are this systems gold.

The metal gold is all in the vaults of international bankers.

Problem is, with the Reagan Admin and the Peace Commission, we found out all our taxes disappear into the air...poof, its all gone somewhere but on the debt.


Its late
NOT the Peace Commission, the Grace Commission.

http://www.uhuh.com/taxstuff/gracecom.htm


One-third of all their taxes is consumed by waste and inefficiency in the Federal Government as we identified in our survey.

Another one-third of all their taxes escapes collection from others as the underground economy blossoms in direct proportion to tax increases and places even more pressure on law abiding taxpayers, promoting still more underground economy-a vicious cycle that must be broken.

With two-thirds of everyone's personal income taxes wasted or not collected, 100 percent of what is collected is absorbed solely by interest on the Federal debt and by Federal Government contributions to transfer payments. In other words, all individual income tax revenues are gone before one nickel is spent on the services which taxpayers expect from their Government.

The braying of a fool
Enters into the ears of the foolish(trusting naive public) than the quiet voice of the wisemen.

“You have to choose [as a voter] between trusting to the natural stability of gold and the natural stability of the honesty and intelligence of the members of the Government. And, with due respect for these gentlemen, I advise you, as long as the Capitalist system lasts, to vote for gold.”

George Bernard Shaw


Daniel Webster "Of all the contrivances for cheating the laboring classes of mankind, none has been more effective than that which deludes them with paper money."


Frederic Bastiat,
The Law "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it."


John Adams, letter to
Thomas Jefferson
"All the perplexities, confusion and distresses in America arise not from defects in the constitution or confederation, nor from want of honor or virtue, as much from downright ignorance of the nature of coin, credit, and circulation."

More wisemen
http://www.fame.org/NotableQuotes.asp

Our money is illegal already...
...so why does anyone think we need a constitutional amendment to create an "amero". If you check the constitution, all of our paper money is illegal. It specifically states that no printed money is allowed, only coinage. We ignored that so they could print worthless money, they will do what they want and we will accept it. the US is gone, never to return. The constitution has been suspended since 3/6/33, by the traitor Roosevelt. Please don't believe this, look up Executive Orders 2039 and 2040. One suspends the constitution, the other turns all of us into "enemies of the state". BTW, just the fact Executive Orders exist is proof we have no constitution. We have no king. Nothing should be law because the president says so, laws go through the house and senate. Not Executive Orders. The president says it, and it is law! No constitution here.

A great story on the FEDERAL RESERVE...
...is at "http://www.bnnreports.com/money/"

Sometimes
I have struggled to find the words to reach out to people who do not understand our fraudulent fiat paper money system, and fail.

Even giving them direct quotes from men who know the truth and have spoken it plainly cannot reach some among us and help them see this fraud.


"BANKERS own the EARTH, Take it away from them, but LEAVE them the power to create money and control credit, and with the FLICK OF A PEN, they will CREATE enough to buy it back"

Sir Josiah Stamp
former director
Bank of England

Why Did Canadian Police incite Violence?
Undercover Canadian Police were caught by peaceful protesters attempting to incite violence
during and otherwise peaceful protest with rocks
in their hands while hiding their faces from the
crowd?

Why do you think that rock carrying police were planted in an otherwise peaceful crowd of demonstrators as provocateurs to incite violence during the allegedly Non-Existent North American Union Summit in Montebello, Canada as inferred by John Hawkins?????????

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7S1nHvvkzvA


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAfzUOx53Rg

talent scout writes: 16, 2007 1:45 AM

Here is what cannot be audited

PUBLIC LAW 95-320

…The Board of Governors, the Federal Reserve Banks, and the Federal Reserve System as a whole are all subject to several levels of audit and review. Under the Federal Banking Agency Audit Act (enacted in 1978 as Public Law 95-320), .......


DESKJOCKEY RESPONDS

Regarding #1, I’m not sure that is a GAO function but rather relegated to the other two auditors. #2, #3, #4 have nothing to do with accounting. Finally, the GAO is not the appointed entity to be doing onsite bank examinations but rather the FDIC and other giver-ment entities. All those banks’ privately audited numbers are reported to FR. The GAO provides one type of audit of the three. I suspect KPMG’s work papers require confirmation of the GAO excluded items when relevant to the audit.

The law was specific to limit GAO, not the other two audits.

talent scout writes

The auditing of the Federal Reserve Is akin to auditing several McDonalds but never McDonalds Corporate Headquaters.

DESKJOCKEY RESPONDS

Actually it is the opposite. KPMG audits the FR headquarters. The other banks have their audits done by a private sector firms that may coincidentally include KPMG at times and they provide their numbers to FR.

The KPMG audit is public and ’06 has been recently posted.

talent scout writes: 16, 2007 2:07 AM
The way the Fed creates money

OUT OF THIN AIR

…. they create A US Treasury Note. ..To change this new debt into cash, Congress gives it to the FED, who then call it a Securities Asset. (actually debt, but that is how fiat paper works)

DESKJOCKEY WRITES

Fiat money is on the average 2.5% a year that the treasury increases printed paper above the increases in goods and services for the year. What you are discussing is not fiat money.

Here is how fiat money works. The giver-ment spends more than they collect. Rather than issue bonds to raise the cash, they merely print paper in the amount they need. Now the value of cash held by the public has reduced value in the amount of the unbacked printed paper.

In the bond scenario this doesn’t happen because the amount of paper remains unchanged. The investor hands his cash over to the giver-ment to spend rather the he spending it. The paper changes hands but the total is unchanged.

You then may claim, well the taxpayer will eventually have to pay off this bond. Again, money will move from the taxpayer to the giver-ment who then pays off the bond by moving the money right back to the investors. No printed paper took place and the total circulation of dollars remained unchanged although it changed hands.

talent scout writes: 16, 2007 11:27 AM

The braying of a fool
Enters into the ears of the foolish(trusting naive public) than the quiet voice of the wisemen.

DESKJOCKEY WRITES

I have two ways of explaining this and I’m going to do the very short one and avoid a two page thesis on labor, gold, paper, fiat money v money supply etc.

Dollars are backed by labor. The Feds increase money supply by the increase in output each year. However dollars are increased (by additional printing) each year beyond the increase in output to the tune of 2.5% and this causes inflation. The risk is that your giver-ment can increase dollars by even greater amounts without you ever knowing they are doing it for a while. There are excellent reasons for doing this in the amount of 2.5% but that takes yet more time and I promised simple.

Gold offers absolutely no greater protection. If you study the inflation numbers for the past 100 years (on FR site) they cranked right along when we were on the gold standard. How can that be, gold is suppose to be the protection against inflation? Well that is because a corrupt giver-ment doesn’t care about gold, they merely print more paper each year against the fixed gold in storage.

Those two tactic whether you have gold or not create fiat money.

However, we have other market activities that can increase money supply but that ultimately are not inflationary. During the Indonesian crises Greenspan increased money supply some 15% pretty quickly to avert a world wide depression, yet inflation remained around 3%. Increasing money supply and printing fiat paper are two different operations and to stay simple I won’t get into that either.

mohaski writes: 16, 2007 5:14 PM


If you check the constitution, all of our paper money is illegal. It specifically states that no printed money is allowed, only coinage. We ignored that so they could print worthless money, they will do what they want and we will accept it. the US is gone, never to return. The constitution has been suspended since 3/6/33, by the traitor Roosevelt. Please don't believe this, look up Executive Orders 2039 and 2040. One suspends the constitution, the other turns all of us into "enemies of the state". BTW, just the fact Executive Orders exist is proof we have no constitution. We have no king. Nothing should be law because the president says so, laws go through the house and senate. Not Executive Orders. The president says it, and it is law! No constitution here.

DESKJOCKEY WRITES

First of all the Constitution was suspended when Lincoln took office. Secondly the Coinage Act of 1965 makes paper legal assuming Congress can still make laws. Gold or paper are fine species of exchange. The problem with gold is the cost to obtain the species and store it vs. paper. Both items are backed by or represent expended labor when you think it through.

Regarding FDR, is he really that much worse than Bush? Also EO can not suspend the Constitution and he can issue them all day long. EOs are limited to legitimate operations of the executive branch. Granted that presidents try to have them go beyond such, but the congress can shoot them down if he goes off limits.

Now I’ll concede that the 3 branches basically don’t check each other because they all benefit from bigger more powerful giver-ment, but in theory an EO out of the presidents authority can be checked.

mohaski writes: 16, 2007 5:25 PM

A great story on the FEDERAL RESERVE...
...is at "http://www.bnnreports.com/money/"

DESKJOCKEY RESPONDS


I only watched a couple minutes. I love Rothbard and Rockwell. The problem is that when we were on the gold standard inflation cranked along the same as today.

Pointless
Those, like Hawkins, know the NAU is in the works. They just don't give a damn so long as it comes to fruition. Calling patriots names in an attempt to marginalize us is all they have. Seriously, name-calling is the ONLY thing they have.

Sovereignty, patriotism, conservatism, borders, individual liberty, citizenship, private property etc. are all just words used to describe outdated notions that ultimately cause wars and should thus be marginalized, minimized, or destroyed outright. (Hmmm, now that I think about it, columnists like Hawkins seem more like leftist utopians than conservatives.)

Gabby, Talent Scout, Liberty, et al, you're wasting your time with the apologists/liars. They don't read links, nor do they care.

You're best off giving the article one star and then finding out what Schlafly, Buchanan, Malkin, and Colter are writing about today.

No sir
DESKJOCKEY RESPONDS

Actually it is the opposite. KPMG audits the FR headquarters. The other banks have their audits done by a private sector firms that may coincidentally include KPMG at times and they provide their numbers to FR.

The KPMG audit is public and ’06 has been recently posted.
-----------------------------------

Well, just who do you think the audit is for?
If not the GAO?

Read the Federal Reserve site once more my friend, that is where you will see it is they who cite Public Law 95-320

And reading that law shows what cannot be audited, ok.

Its there in plain english to read.

Every single Federal Reserve Note
DESKJOCKEY WRITES

Fiat money is on the average 2.5% a year that the treasury increases printed paper above the increases in goods and services for the year. What you are discussing is not fiat money.
-----------------

In existence is fiat paper money.
No State (from which source the Feds get their money) was to pay off debts with anything but gold or silver.

Paper or Gold does not matter?
Only if one does not care what the Constitution demands, I guess.

Cannot be auditied, is what
IT SAYS:

Prohibits the GAO from auditing:

(1) transactions conducted on behalf of or with foreign central banks, foreign governments, and nonprivate international financing organizations;

(2) deliberations, decisions, and actions on monetary policy matters, including discount window operations, reserves of member banks, securities credit, interest on deposits, and open market operations;

(3) transactions made under the direction of the Federal Open Market Committee including transactions of the Federal Reserve System Open Market Account; and

(4) those portions of oral, written, telegraphic, or telephonic discussions and communications among or between Members of the Board of Governors, and officers and employees of the Federal Reserve System which deal with topics listed in this Act.

Prohibits the GAO from conducting on site examinations of banks or bank holding companies without the written consent of the appropriate regulatory agency.

Sets forth prohibitions on the public disclosure of certain information.
-----------------------

If GAO is prohibited, its certain KPMG cannot audit any of the above.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d095:HR02176:@@@D&summ2=m&|TOM:/bss/d095query.html|

talent scout writes: , 18, 2007 9:11 PM

deskjockey

The KPMG audit is public...
-----------------------------------

.. who do you think the audit is for?
If not the GAO?

Read the Federal Reserve site once more my friend, that is where you will see it is they who cite Public Law 95-320

And reading that law shows what cannot be audited, ok.

DESKJOCKEY RESPONDS

KPMG is hired by the OIG not GAO.

I believe the GAO is more into setting up internal bookkeeping systems, how they talk across platforms, procedures, efficiencies etc. and not taking annual audits of closing the books.

The OIG hires outside firms to audit the Board. Another outside firm is hired to audit the banks.

See last paragraph http://www.federalreserve.gov/generalinfo/faq/faqfrs.htm

The process you discussed with the bonds is not fiat money as no printing takes place, it is a supply issue. Yes we build up about 2.5% a year of fiat money that I mentioned.

You are making up your own private interpretation of the Constitution and probably reading books like Griffin and Franklin Sanders that misinform you. There have been numerous court cases I won’t cite today regarding these claims and naturally they all have lost. We have the Coinage Act to take any further confusion away.

Gold and paper make absolutely no different as a species in the hands of giver-ment. Use the FR sight and look at inflation on their 100 year chart and you’ll see some of the biggest years under the gold standard not paper. I can print bogus paper against gold reserves as well as against no reserves.

Talent scout

If GAO is prohibited, its certain KPMG cannot audit any of the above.


DESKJOCKEY WRITES

You have too much emotion involved in this. If you read the link above, those items are left to the OIG and KMPG does that audit. Also your claim if not the GAO then nobody is horrific legal theory. Look that act says the GAO and it does not say the OIG, which is specifically examining their programs and operations.


NAU
For more on the NAU, download the Oct. 15 issue of The New American magazine, for free:
http://www.thenewamerican.com/files/documents/MergerInTheMa king.pdf

It's about 4 MB. Enjoy!

SO MANY OF YOU BLOW MY MIND
Okay let me start by saying yes it is always smart to question things, epecially the government and things going on but If this were to be true It would cause an american Outburst not to mention Canada.. Just look at how huge of an up roar Just the Idea has caused... I say instead of coming up with a conspiracy, and finding a way to prove that it is true. Take what the government says and try to prove that true.. ether way you come up with compelling arguments. People dig so much to find proof of deception,that they ignore the that what they find has no Reputational Value on the what they are trying to prove. THE GOVERNMENT IS NOT STUPID. I understand that selfish personal greed from individuals in the government ultimately decide the outcome of many decisions. We have to remember that this is not a few people that it would take to accomplish this task it is many people... PEOPLE WE ELECTED!! if it does happen we have only ourselves to blame.

SO MANY OF YOU BLOW MY MIND
Okay let me start by saying yes it is always smart to question things, epecially the government and things going on but If this were to be true It would cause an american Outburst not to mention Canada.. Just look at how huge of an up roar Just the Idea has caused... I say instead of coming up with a conspiracy, and finding a way to prove that it is true. Take what the government says and try to prove that true.. ether way you come up with compelling arguments. People dig so much to find proof of deception,that they ignore the that what they find has no Reputational Value on the what they are trying to prove. THE GOVERNMENT IS NOT STUPID. I understand that selfish personal greed from individuals in the government ultimately decide the outcome of many decisions. We have to remember that this is not a few people that it would take to accomplish this task it is many people... PEOPLE WE ELECTED!! if it does happen we have only ourselves to blame.
Sign Up to Post Your CommentsSign Up to Post Your Comments
If you are already registered, click here to login. Otherwise, please take a few seconds to register with Townhall.com. Once you sign up, you’ll be able to post your comments immediately, use the action center, get podcasts, and more!
Note: Fields marked with a red asterisk (*) are required.
Salutation:
First Name:
*
Last Name:
*
Email:
*
Nickname:
*
Note: Nick name will be shown when you post comments.
Address 1:
*
Address 2:
City:
*
State:
*
Zip:
*
Phone:
      
Your daily must-read of conservative columns, cartoons and news. Coulter, Sowell, Krauthammer and more.
(Bi-Weekly) We highlight the best opportunities from our partners for surveys, action items and more.