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Friday, June 15, 2007
John Hawkins :: Townhall.com Columnist
The Conservative Case Against Ron Paul
by John Hawkins
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Even though he's not one of the top tier contenders, I thought it might be worthwhile to go ahead and write a short, but sweet primer that will explain why so many Republicans have a big problem with Ron Paul. Enjoy!

#1) Ron Paul is a libertarian, not a conservative: I have nothing against libertarians. To the contrary, I like them and welcome them into the Republican Party. But, conservatives have even less interest in seeing a libertarian as the GOP's standard bearer than seeing a moderate as our party's nominee. In Paul's case, his voting record shows that he is the least conservative member of Congress running for President on the GOP side. So, although he is a small government guy, he very poorly represents conservative opinion on a wide variety of other important issues.

#2) Ron Paul is one of the people spreading the North American Union conspiracy: If you're so inclined, you can click here for just one example of Paul talking up a mythical Bush administration merger of the U.S., Canada, and Mexico, but you're not missing much if you don't. Reputable conservatives shouldn't be spreading these crazy conspiracy theories and the last thing the GOP needs is a conspiracy crank as our nominee in 2008.

#3) Ron Paul encourages "truther" conspiracy nuts: Even though Ron Paul admits that he does not believe in a 9/11 government conspiracy, he has been flirting with the wackjobs in the "truther movement," like Alex Jones and the "Student Scholars for 9/11 Truth." Republican politicians should either ignore people like them or set them straight, not lend credence to their bizarre conspiracy theories by acting as if they may have some merit, which is what Ron Paul has done.

#4) Ron Paul's racial views: From the Houston Chronicle, Texas congressional candidate Ron Paul's 1992 political newsletter highlighted portrayals of blacks as inclined toward crime and lacking sense about top political issues.

Under the headline of "Terrorist Update," for instance, Paul reported on gang crime in Los Angeles and commented, "If you have ever been robbed by a black teen-aged male, you know how unbelievably fleet-footed they can be."

Paul, a Republican obstetrician from Surfside, said Wednesday he opposes racism and that his written commentaries about blacks came in the context of "current events and statistical reports of the time."

..."Given the inefficiencies of what D.C. laughingly calls the `criminal justice system,' I think we can safely assume that 95 percent of the black males in that city are semi-criminal or entirely criminal," Paul said.

...He added, "We don't think a child of 13 should be held responsible as a man of 23. That's true for most people, but black males age 13 who have been raised on the streets and who have joined criminal gangs are as big, strong, tough, scary and culpable as any adult and should be treated as such."

Paul also asserted that "complex embezzling" is conducted exclusively by non-blacks.

"What else do we need to know about the political establishment than that it refuses to discuss the crimes that terrify Americans on grounds that doing so is racist? Why isn't that true of complex embezzling, which is 100 percent white and Asian?" he wrote."

Ron Paul has since claimed that although these comments were in his newsletter, under his name, he didn't write them. Is he telling the truth? Who knows? Either way, those comments don't say much for Paul.

#5) A lot of Ron Paul's supporters are incredibly irritating: There are, without question, plenty of decent folks who support Ron Paul. However, for whatever reason, his supporters as a group are far more annoying than those of all the other candidates put together. It's like every spammer, truther, troll, and flake on the net got together under one banner to spam polls and try to annoy everyone into voting for Ron Paul (which is, I must admit, a novel strategy).

#6) Ron Paul is an isolationist: The last time the United States retreated to isolationism was after WW1 and the result was WW2. Since then, the world has become even more interconnected which makes Ron Paul's strategy of retreating behind the walls of Fortress America even more unworkable than it was back in the thirties.

#7) Ron Paul wants to immediately cut and run in Iraq: Even if you're an isolationist like Ron Paul, the reality is that our foreign policy isn't currently one of isolationism and certain allowances should be made to deal with that reality. Yet, Paul believes we should immediately retreat from Al-Qaeda in Iraq and let that entire nation collapse into genocide and civil war as a result. Maybe, just maybe, Paul's motives are better than those of liberals like Murtha and Kerry, who want to see us lose a war for political gain, but the catastrophic results would be exactly the same.

#8)

In the single most repulsive moment of the entire Presidential race so far, Ron Paul excused Al-Qaeda's attack on America with this comment about 9/11:

"They attack us because we've been over there. We've been bombing Iraq for 10 years."

In other words, America deserved to be attacked by Al-Qaeda.

This is the sort of facile comment you'd expect to hear from an America-hating left winger like Michael Moore or Noam Chomsky, not from a Republican running for President -- or from any Republican in office for that matter. If you want to truly realize how foolish that sort of thinking is, imagine what the reaction would be if we had bombed Egyptian or Indonesian civilians after 9/11 and then justified it by saying "We attacked them because those Muslims have been over here."

#9) Ron Paul is the single, least electable major candidate running for the presidency in either party: Libertarianism simply is not considered to be a mainstream political philosophy in the United States by most Americans. That's why the Libertarian candidate in 2004, Michael Badnarik, only pulled .3% of the vote. Even more notably, Ron Paul only pulled .47% of the vote when he ran at the top of the Libertarian ticket in 1988. Granted, Paul would do considerably better than that if he ran at the top of the Republican Party ticket, but it's hard to imagine his winning more than, say 35%, of the national vote and a state or two -- even if he were very lucky. In other words, having Ron Paul as the GOP nominee would absolutely guarantee the Democratic nominee a Reaganesque sweep in the election.

Summary: Is Ron Paul serious about small government, enforcing the Constitution, and enforcing the borders? Yes, and those are all admirable qualities. However, he also has a host of enormous flaws that makes him unqualified to be President and undesirable, even as a Republican Congressmen.

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About The Author
John Hawkins is a professional blogger who runs Right Wing News, Linkiest, and Viral Footage.
 
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Voting Records
I have to disagree that Paul's "voting record shows that he is the least conservative member of Congress running for President." Judging a candidate's positions solely by his congressional voting record can be misleading. Some of the votes that would be considered "not conservative" are probably MORE conservative, i.e., he took originalist positions that led him to vote against conservative-supported bills. There are also plenty of votes that are really against unrelated pork and withdrawal timetables, although I'm sure Paul supports the latter. The point is that simply tallying votes can be misleading for a number of reasons.

I objected to this tactic when it was used by Ron Paul supporters against Fred Thompson and it's an equally poor argument to use against Ron Paul.

It's clear that Paul is a libertarian, but I don't see how anyone could characterize him as less conservative than Obama and Hillary (he didn't say just Republicans, so I can only assume he meant all candidates).

I agree with the rest of the article. Ron Paul is running for the nomination of the wrong party.

Heh
You are *easily (it's not even close) the most poorly-informed human being I have ever seen trying to pass him/herself off as a "professional blogger". Here's some uber-concrete argument for you:

A lot of RP's detractors are incredibly irritating.

Bye

What are you smoking?? He
Paul was a close friend on Ronald Reagan!
You know that conservative guy that everyone
seems to talk about.

He was one of only FOUR republicans in congress to endorse Reagan for president against Carter in 1976.

John you unfortunately DO NOT know what conservative means, where it comes from or how to judge it.

My lord what the hell has happened to this country and the educational system???


It's all there!
Looks like this guy spent about a half an hour searching for Ron Paul criticisms on the internet.

There's not one iota of original thought in this entire essay.


This is a Poor Journalism at it's Worst
Here is a point by point refutation:

1. Ron Paul is a conservative republican with libertarian beliefs to some extent. He disagrees with libertarians on issues of abortion and other moral beliefs. His voting record is not indicative of his positions because if a bill has a conservative measure, but excessive spending he will say "no" to the bill, that does not make him liberal. He's the only congressman against any big spending, big government, and federal intrusion into our lives. That's conservatism based on his principles, not based on over-laced bills that have out of control spending with them.

2. The North American Union is not a conspiracy. It is a reality. Watch this video by youtube about the North American union by CNN:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=H65f3q_Lm9U

3. As far as who he draws is much different that what he supports. You cannot use a non-sequitur to make a point. You are illogical to do so. Bush has some nutty followers who believe in droping an atomic bomb on Iran for no attack against our sovereignty. They are called most of the republican party and people like Sean Hannity. What's crazier to have as followers? A national holocaust or some fringe lunatics who don't even follow their beliefs?

4. Those quotes have been refuted as false. You know this but seem to continue to smear instead of think rationally.

5. Your views of such supporters are people who have had enough of the lies of the government, nor the intrusion into our lives with over-taxion.

6. Ron Paul is a non-interventionist, not an isolationist. You should know the difference. He wants free trade.

7. When you make a mistake should you stop your mistake immediately? People use the derogatory "cut-and-run" line, which is a neo-con lie to perpetuate a war which costs us $3 billion a day funded by the Chinese government to cover our debt. Look it up for your information. We borrow from communists to continue a war based on the UN.

8. Ron Paul is the only candidate who wants to apprehend Osama bin Laden and not Iraq and Iran. He never, and I dare you to quote him, said he excused the attacks on America or Americans. That is a lie. He said we should listen to the underlying reasons they say they attacked us, which is intervention in their country. He points to the example of having China build an embassy larger than the Vatican in the US. Would you get upset?

9. He has a great chance. Don't throw away your vote on someone who doesn't have principles against the overtaking of our liberties by the federal government. As Dwight D. Eisenhower said preemptive war was an invention of Hitler. Look up that quote and look the irrationality of fighting wars and losing trillions of dollars against people who are not capable of destroying our sovereignty while Bush and the neo-cons allow the absolute destruction of our sovereignty by not stopping illegal immigration while paying lip-service to stopping terrorism.

Dear John 'Smart Guy' Hawkins
Ron Paul is a 10 term REPUBLICAN congressman, one time nominated by the Libertarian Party to run for President.

Dr Paul is always voted the 'MOST Conservative Member of Congress'.(except in the 'poll' you linked)

What matters to Aeericans is that Ron Paul has NEVER voted aganist the Constitution!

And wants to Restore the Republic, sounds pretty Republican to me.

ThomasPaine
I'm a conservative and I "know what conservative means." I'm also well-educated, so I know it does not follow that supporting a conservative necessarily makes someone a conservative. Paul agreed with Reagan's positions more than Ford's. It's that simple.

There were plenty of conservatives who supported and voted for Joe Leiberman last year because they preferred him to Ned Lamont. Did a vote for Joe Leiberman suddenly make them liberals?

Isn't it ironic for a libertarian to ask a conservative what he's smoking?

Lestat
What do you think conservative means? Please describe...

John Hawkins.....Surely you Jest?
Have you ever read anything about the NAFTA super-highway? I don't mean to be rude because you are so young...but perhaps you need to do a little further research upon the subject.

Now I have hear Dr Ron Paul participating in the debates etc. Actually, he sounds like a true Conservative. All of the others sound like the same chorus of hand picked president wanabees!

This is really funny! I notice you making all kinds of Ad hominem attacks on Dr Ron Paul...has he done something underhanded that we don't know about? Has he committed some impeacheable defense..say...like most of our Congress have and our President who are meeting as we speak..behind closed doors trying to ram this Immigration Bill down our throats?

Surely you don't believe that Dr Ron Paul is an enemy of the state? Unless of course..the State is doing something Unconstitutional? Do you believe that our State or Government or its leaders might ever make big mistakes and do things that are not in the interest of the American people?

Hannity vs. 9/11 Report + CIA officials
The 9/11 report says that part of the reason for the attacks was our attack on the sovereignty of the Middle East. CIA officials have affirmed the statement made by Dr. Paul, but having Sean Hannity calling such statements left-wing hog-wash is sufficient for Mr. Hawkins to dismiss truth over labeling others you disagree with.

Somewhere truth was left behind and all they have is name-calling.

If Mr. Hawkins would like I would challenge him to a 1,500 word debate on national security, government spending, and his choice for who is the true conservative of America.

Conflict of interest much?
So, why should we see this as anything other than a lame hit piece written by a "professional blogger" with an obvious conflict of interest?

I note at the bottom: Mr. Hawkins ... also writes a weekly column for Townhall.com and consults for the Duncan Hunter campaign.

A campaign, I should point out, that has, present professional blogger excluded, virtually no online support, and consistently brings in 1% in those handy scientific polls. Even the "single, least electable major candidate running for the presidency in either party" is pulling in 2% and 3%, depending on the scientific poll (see: http://www.pollingreport.com/wh08rep.htm).

And you're right, Ron Paul is no conservative -- that is if your definition of conservative is voting for whatever it is President or party leadership wants, no questions asked. Or if you think conservative means passing 4 trillion dollar drug entitlement packages, doubling the size of the Dept of Education, building 100 million dollar bridges to nowhere in Alaska, handing out 200 billion dollars for Katrina, subsidizing corn farmers with ridiculous ethanol bills that account for at least a good 30 cents per gallon during the summer, and rubber stamping the indefinite detaining of any person, including US citizens, who are determined by the government to be an "unlawful enemy combatant" (MCA act).

That is what our champions of the "Contract with America" party have given us the last few years, and if thats small, limited government conservatism to you, then, heh, ok.

But I have another term for them. Tax-cutting Democrats. All modern Republicans, have betrayed their small government and fiscal responsibility roots-- all except one: Ron Paul.




Why did you even write this article?
Why are you beating around from behind a 'Bush/Cheney' Hawkins?

Obviously your attempting to discredit Ron Paul and his good standing, but for what purpose.. maybe you had a better Candidate for President in mind?..

Do your homework before trying to make a point, for specifics I'll refer to the comment by 'Mike Solimanto.'

For your next assignment, do something positive.


'Information is the currency of democracy.'



Excused Al-Qaeda?
1) One of the House votes that was used to "calculate" someone's "conservativism" was "Oppose setting a date to withdraw U.S. forces from Iraq." What exactly is the liberal and what is the conservative answer to that? But, since this poll puts Duncan Hunter at the top of the "conservative" list, and since you're part of the Duncan Hunter campaign, I can't blame you for cherrypicking this poll.

2) All the signs point to a willingness of the Bush administration to unite North America ala the European Union. Bush's stand on immigration, his support for letting Mexican drivers enter our country, the super highways.

3) I'd rather have Paul "flirting" with people who, like Paul, would like to see an independent investigation of 9/11, than having candidates flirt with special interests, especially special interests in the Middle East.

4) "Is he telling the truth? Who knows?" Those comments indeed won't help him, but there's plenty of Ron Paul material out there, both written articles and speeches, that show a complete lack of even a hint of racism, that one would need to lean strongly towards the opinion that Paul most likely is speaking the truth when he says he didn't write those words.

5) Some Ron Paul supporters are indeed irritating, but no more so than some of the supporters of other candidates who I've come across. The word "traitor" flows far too easily from their fingers as a response to any criticism towards the Bush administration and their candidates.

6) Non-interventionism and isolationism are not the same thing. It doesn't take a lot of research to figure out the difference, and it doesn't take a whole lot of research on Ron Paul to figure out that he advocates non-interventionism, not isolationism. You know, the whole "Peace, commerce and honest friendship with all nations; entangling alliances with none" thing.

7) The war-backers keep talking about what horrible things will happen if we leave. (a) What evidence do you have to believe that "if" shouldn't be "when"? It seems to me that that kind of logic will dictate our eternal presence in the region? (b) Things aren't bad enough yet? (c) We have a responsibility first to the United States, not to the nations we invade. It seems to me that our presence in Iraq is creating more enemies for us. At the same time, our brave men and women keep dying. "If we go there will be trouble, but if we stay it will be double." It took me a while to accept that truth.

8) "If you want to truly realize how foolish that sort of thinking is, imagine what the reaction would be if we had bombed Egyptian or Indonesian civilians after 9/11 and then justified it by saying "We attacked them because those Muslims have been over here.""

Ever heard the saying "Know thy enemy"? Bin Laden tells us his reasons for the attacks, yet it seems it is easier for some to dismiss those stated reasons, choosing instead to believe he attacked us because of our "freedoms". Note that trying to understand his motivation does NOT mean excusing the attacks. If only Bush had understood more about our enemy before he decided to invade Iraq.

9) Keep telling yourself that the people will vote for Giuliani (oh, wait... I mean, Duncan Hunter) over Clinton. The only way for Republicans to avoid Democratic rulership for the next 8 years or so is to change course. The Democrats gave them an opening with their most recent war vote. Let's see if the Republicans take the opportunity to set things right.

Mr John Hawkins
What is really interesting here is that its obvious that you are trying to paint Dr Ron Paul in a corner...first, that he is spreading some sort of NAFTA...North America Union Conspiracy Theories! Mr Hawkins, if you cannot do a search for the information on NAFTA..perhaps you and MEDVED can get together and watch Lou Dobbs on CNN...and tell us if Lou Dobbs is spreading Conspiracy Theories too?

Secondly, your attempt to "race bait" Dr Paul into a corner is kinda laughable...especially since the first thing that came to my mind when I looked at your picture on this column...was that of a young good ole boy...wearing a white hooded sheet and burning a cross!! I dont know if it was the skinhead hair cut or if it was just you standing there with something in back of you that looks like a militia map for world war III Aryan Crusaders...

By the way, I think that before you start trying to be a spokesman for the Black Community...you should really sit down and have a chat with Bill Cosby.

Really?
Your post, as well as the performance of the rest of the Republican Party (aside from Ron Paul), have defiled the meaning of what it means to be a conservative. Your opinions are not conservative, by definition. They are something else. Your opinions would perhaps fall under "Neoconservatism", a revolting excuse for a political paradigm.

Ron Paul is as conservative as it gets. He might not necessarily be so well-aligned with the Republican Party, however, which has become a neoconservative organization. This is only because the Republican Party, and neoconservatism in general for that matter, might as well be fascism (you can start your reading here: http://www.amconmag.com/06_30_03/feature.html, but there is much, much more. You will likely discover a lot of what is not obvious about the current Republican Party down that train of thought. Do us all a favor and educate yourself before making your supposed “Conservative Case”. You are not conservative, you are a neoconservative. Get it straight, please, before accidentally ascribing your beliefs to conservatives like myself, as you have so heedlessly done here).

Furthering the question about calling yourself a conservative, you call Ron Paul a racist, and so I must ask: Do you feel Reagan was a fair president like just about every other “conservative” and neoconservative alike? If so, then please visit http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/06/11/1431258. You will steadfastly learn that your comment regarding racism renders you a hypocrite. Secondly, if you're not speaking out against Al Sharpton and his racist remarks, how can you begin to comment about two supposed racist remarks from Ron Paul? My personal opinion is that Mr. Sharpton is seethingly racist toward “white interlopers” as he'd call those of my lineage, as well as those of Jewish descent.

Lots of people have said racist things, however, such as Bill O'Reilly (www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBjr7EU52hE. Therein he speaks of the White Christian Male Power Structure. If you want to talk about conspiracy theorists, look no further than Fox News). But most importantly, you are blatantly wrong about him being racist. You can start your research on that here: http://www.freemarketnews.com/Analysis/134/7587/high%20alert.asp?wid=134&nid=7587.

For your next bulleted point: That is complete non-sense. Attempts to attribute spamming to the polling have all ultimately failed. Just because Ron Paul has a massive fan base, doesn't mean to can just discard the commentary as "spam". That's not spam, that's just the masses exercising their Free Speech. If you're so adamantly against Ron Paul, it's a lot easier to dismiss it as spam, though, isn't it?

For your next bullet, you clearly misunderstand what isolationist means versus non-interventionist. Ron Paul speaks of trade with everyone, tangling alliances with no one. It is a simply superior economic policy. Always has been, certainly is now, and likely always will be. And thus it was the recommendation by George Washington. It's tested and proven, and the results are remarkable. I don't think I'll need to cite a specific example here, as any history book which includes America in its pages will show you.

Unfortunately, this is not the system we work on now, as our neoconservative friends in office have gleefully disassembled it by getting our fingers into everyone else's pies. Frankly, most Americans could care less about the rest of the world's trouble. It's none of our business, and it's also just not economical. We shouldn't have to care about the rest of the world, and that's why national economic independence is important. This way, our involvement in trade agreements is voluntary. If a nation doesn't want our trade, so what? Stop trading with us, it's not going to devastate us, and we just won't have to care in that case. In that scenario, America would become an ivory tower and sanctuary atop an unclimbable mountain. Accessible to none but the proper American citizens.

Bullet number seven: Among other things, what is happening in the Middle East is precisely what terrorists want, as we are easier to target. Their numbers are growing exponentially now, as we have fanned the fire. More people hate us around the world than ever before. There are still some who are okay with us, such as Albania, but I'm not sure that this is entirely true (they stole Bush's watch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7LuhQs8NSE&mode=related&search=). "Cut and run" is not the proper wording. More appropriate would be "Bush lied, he hamstrung the public, ignored the gargantuan protests against his actions, turned our allies into enemies, and we're engaged in an illegal war against Iraq” (it was never passed by Congress. The attack on Afghanistan was fine, he had the authority to do that. The war on Iraq is not. Osama is most likely in Pakistan, who already has nukes. And what are we doing? Drilling for oil in Iraq). Simply put, we cannot afford the oil war (billions in counterfeit money is legally being printed by the Fed on a daily basis (using a law passed in 1913 to do so; you can look this over at http://www.federalreserve.gov)), and as a result of trying to, we are borrowing cash from the Chinese and printing far too much money. This is how economic collapse begins. We cannot afford this many obligations worldwide, it's just that simple. Run the numbers, you will discover we are digging a very deep hole. I could go much further on this, but I will leave the rest to your own investigations.

For your next bullet, Ron Paul never excused the attacks by Al-Qaeda's. In fact, he wants to go after them. But he wants to do it in the legal fashion, the constitutional way, which is through the Congress. Because this was not done, we are now in Iraq, and our president is not even concerned with Osama (www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PGmnz5Ow-o). The oxymoron of the current Republican Party, excluding Ron Paul, is that they attribute “letting the terrorists win” to leaving Iraq. Well, actually, by staying in Iraq, you're helping Osama bin Laden collapse our economy by following in the direction outlined in my previous paragraph. By staying in Iraq, you are also letting them go on a free reign! Staying in Iraq is synonymous with excusing the attacks on 9/11 by letting them go, and instead busying ourselves with satisfying the thirst of the American oil companies' for new oil acquisitions (and if not oil, then we really stand nothing to gain from Iraq. It's lose-lose).


Now this last bullet was very interesting to me, and so I wanted to give it special attention. Every shred of information you presented is completely and inherently false:

“Libertarianism simply is not considered to be a mainstream political philosophy in the United States by most Americans.”

Well, it sure is a good thing he's not running as a Libertarian. It's also helpful to note that he is a conservative (that is, a “constitutionalist”) and a Republican, with a proven track record spanning 10 years. He is winning hearts and minds from both sides of the nation, blue and red alike. Also, I'm curious as to where you got that information? Define “mainstream”, please? I think ultimately my question about that statement would be “Who told you that?”

The rest of the paragraph is simply hearsay or completely unfounded opinion. The facts are: Certain organizations are very visibly attempting to silence him through the use of tainted polls (not even including him in the polls, despite him being the GOP leader for a time) and smear campaigns, which is simply inexcusable. Mudslinging is fine, but direct obstruction of the democratic process?

Despite all the smear-attempts and silencing, his popularity continues to grow through grassroots movements and simple word of mouth. People are aware of what is being done to him, and they see right through it.

For instance, that comment about Rudy against Ron during the debates? Rudy lost a lot of supporters this way, despite the cheering in the crowds. To me, it was disgusting. Many share this opinion. Rudy has now been exposed as a liar many times on YouTube and other mechanisms of true democratic process. Fox News' attempted smear campaigns? People are now well-aware now of their motives for this, and once again can see right through it. Just take a look around, it doesn't take much effort. Try this on for size: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ysxXWab_bg. Better yet, go talk to your local Ron Paul support group and try questioning them. Just sitting idly and watching them grow is another perfectly good option if you don't feel like putting forth the effort.

I'm sure you can find a hundred other sources like the ones I've cited confirming the claims with official documentation and solid public opinion. May the best candidate win.

Go Ron Paul 2008!

John Hawkins..you should be ashamed!
I just found out that you are working for the Duncan Hunter campaign and here you are taking a swipe at Dr Ron Paul. I have read nothing of Dr Ron Pauls people taking a swipe at Duncan Hunter...in fact they kinda stand with Duncan and Tom Tancredo....you have attacked the wrong person..when you should be attacking the hand picked Rockefeller Republican Candidates like Guiliani, McCain, Romney, Fred Thompson and Newt Gingrich. You ought to be ashamed of yourself for trying to tarnish a good, decent, and honest and principled man. Also, its obvious you chose that picture of Dr Paul...to make him out as some kind of a quack...but you know what? I think you just pissed in your own hat! Now that is sad! The following article I retrieved from the internet congratulating you for your having joined the Duncan Hunter Campaign....




February 15, 2007

Blogger John Hawkins Joins Duncan Hunter Campaign
Topics: Political News and commentaries

Congratulations to John Hawkins of Right Wing News as the latest blogger to join a political campaign, having just signed on to be "the point person in building up buzz for Duncan Hunter online." Apparently he has been hired to work specifically on the Duncan Hunter campaign, but was recruited and hired as an independent contractor by TCV Media, not by the Hunter campaign itself. So that means John has a layer of independence which I believe should be maintained by any blogger involved with a political campaign. John's a straight-up blogger and I'm sure he'll be an asset for Hunter, which is going to need all the help he can get.



I can't vote for Paul
He doesn't think we should kill the headchoppers before they kill us. Is that what you call a non-interventionist?

saying they had a reason for it
according to John Hawkins, means saying they were justified. By this reasoning, John Hawkins says that imperial Japan was in the right to attack the United States at Pearl Harbor. Or does he not know about the oil embargo?

John Hawkins is either incredibly stupid or he belongs in the National Socialist Party. There is ample reason to believe both are true.

It seems to me
that there are many people in this forum who are clearly out of touch with reality. I'm sorry folks, but you don't come by your Kookville reputation for no reason. So now there's a "conspiracy" to smear and silence Paul. And he was winning in the polls!

Hawkins-bought and sold
As a caveat, I challenge any person the world-over to contest the fact that Congressman Ron Paul has the most constitutionally sound, most consistent record in the History of the Congress, generally, and challenge Mr. Hawkins to an on-line correspondence debate, specifically. It should also be pointed out that Mr. Hawkins is clearly bias as his involvement here is a conflict of interest. As a matter of public record, I look forward to reading the disclosure of Hawkins' contract in FEC filings after June 30th. If no such record exists, I am calling for you to be removed as a staff writer from this forum. If such a record does exist, I will disclose it here, and as a matter of reference exploit it until you retract your slanderous comments.

Dr. Paul is a Constitutionalist. Maybe you've never heard of Edmund Burke, perhaps the most conservative writer that has ever lived; because you're so fond of labeling, I'm labeling you, in the context of Burke, a "fly of Summer." It is clear you advocate policies that are convenient, seasonal, and fly directly against the grain of anything remotely republican and/or conservative in so far as you advocate de facto considerations without deference to the rule of law, de jure.

As a self-proclaimed conservative republican, I assume you understand a Republic is covenant solely supported by the citizens of that republic ; the Covenant in the case of the American Political tradition is the Constitution; natural rights (as espoused in the Declaration) to one's own person, property, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness are not open to deliberation; and once this covenant is broken or perverted (whether in part of in whole) by the representatives entrusted to protect it, you have nothing more than arbitrary governance. Quite simply, Mr. Hawkins, what part of the Constitution disagrees with your alleged "conservative" hermeneutic?

Pandering to labeling by calling Dr. Paul a conspiracy nut or a racist, or labeling him one that courts conspiracy nuts is actually quite hypocritical; but I'll forgive it in so far as it is clear your reading comprehension level is well below average and I am sure you are ignorant to the very concepts you echo because you cannot even muster the acumen to echo said concepts very well. I'm certain you do not know the history of the republican party and the conservative movement, because when berating Dr. Paul you relegate both to your last bowel movement. Neo-conservatism is bred from conspiracy theory and as a political school of thought, has elevated more alternative histories to the forefront than anything Congressman Paul has ever espoused. If you do not believe me, read the early writings of Leo Strauss and other quasi-communitarian writers that actually founded this school of thought.

Dr. Paul has never voted for a tax raise.

Dr. Paul was a flight surgeon in the United States Air Force; he has put his life on the line to insure that Americans can sustain their life, as a soldier, a doctor, and a citizen statesman. He conserves, respects and sustains life where he finds it. What have you done to conserve your Republic today Mr. Hawkins? Did you pick up a chicken dinner from Hunter's campaign office and scribble out a few cursory thoughts?

Dr. Paul's medical practice does not accept medicaid. There are a few occasions when some of his patients want federal subsidy for their medical care. Rather than denying patient care, Dr. Paul maintains all of the liability by providing complimentary medical care and oversight to these patients after explaining the "real" loss of value and patient care any time the US government gets involved with anything.

Dr. Paul receives more individual campaign contributions than 98% of the Beltway, year of year, and in some instances (like during the Gingrich/Clinton Era,) the most individual campaign contributions. He has seen people come and go from Congress, and has weathered the storm when his own party donated monies to Democratic candidates running against him for District 14. Republicans literally invest in democratic candidates in an attempt to remove him from office because they know good and well that he will not go along with their unconstitutional policies. And this is anti-conservative? Say all you will about the level by which his current presidential candidacy is polling, but come disclosure time, Congressman Paul will have raised more money than all of the second tier candidates combined. You'll also see in said FEC disclosures that he is not buying-up Ames Iowa Straw Poll tickets by the thousands so GOP fat cats can live off those monies for the next 4 years. You'll also see that he is not taking special interest money. He is supported by and for the People, as originally intended...and his promise is not kickbacks...his promise is principle. If this is not conservative, I do not know what is.

Dr. Paul always returns large portions of his congressional budget back to the Treasury. Always. His staffers and support staff often make 35% less than other staffers and support staff because they firmly believe in the principles espoused in the Constitution and want to work for the only individual fighting for those rights that are allegedly "inalienable."

Dr. Paul is consistently voted the Tax-payers' Best Friend.

Dr. Paul has authored more bills to repeal the UN's entrenchment in our affairs by calling for the US' removal from the UN than anyone in the history of the Congress. Is tis anti-conservative? Or is the management and stewardship of all American watersheds, including border 5--the Rio Grande River--under UN "during times of emergency" what you consider a conservative definition of national sovereignty?

And this is just the tip of the iceberg... suffice it to say that you, nor the self-righteous blow hards that you represent, can not hold a candle to the integrity, dignity, consistency, morality and principle of the Honorable Dr. Ron Paul. Simply look at the record and read the numbers.


American Conservative Republicans
I'm really not sure how much the author of this article will actually read these comments, but for the sake of those who might spend the time to read the comments posted by others, I have a few points to make.

#1) Dr. Ron Paul IS a conservative AND a Republican. He may have his own viewpoints that are open to debate amongst voters and candidates, but someone who is for the strict interpretation and enforcement of the constitution IS a conservative. Someone who supports a minimal role of the federal government with maximal support for local and state government powers IS a Republican. Anyone who might like to debate this is welcome to Google the American history of the GOP. Seriously, this fundamental debate on the role of the government goes all the way back to Thomas Jefferson.

#2) Dr. Ron Paul is correct in saying briefly in the June 5 debates that the 9/11 suicide attacks were motivated by the American foreign policy. An explanation of the motivations behind the attack IS uncomfortable because people really were killed, but it is a fundamentally American ideal to discuss these matters openly with the public and not to fall victim to the natural human pressures to avoid unfortunate facts. To equate the identical conclusions of the 9/11 commission and the American intelligence community (CIA) with the idea that America "invited the attacks" is really outrageous. Americans already know that we are responsible for setting up the conditions that made 9/11 possible and I'm proud to see a Republican candidate finally come out and discuss the facts.

I'll end this comment for now without even addressing the gross inaccuracy of the racial comments on a staunch defender of individual freedom and liberty set forth in the constitution. I also suggest that future publications require some more extensive editorial review so the information conveyed doesn't leave the reader wanting so much of the time dedicated to be refunded. May God have mercy on your soul.

Confused?
I think you are confused on what a conservative is. Before the 50's and the communism scare, all conservatives were non-interventionst limited government guys. Then when communism was the big fear, Republicans adopted the Wilsonian Democrat stance of interventionism abroad. This, along with the defections of several socialist to the Republican party brought us the Neocons. Libertarians broke off from the main mass of Wilsonian Neocons who have run the Republican party. If you knew any thing about conservatism, you would know that Ron Paul indeed has a 100% impeccable voting record. He just doesn't have a good voting record as a neocon. That's what you really meant.

pawned:
a word used to describe how easily an opponent is thoroughly abused. In this case, it describes the thorough response by the readers of this column to the foolishly idiotic attack on Ron Paul by the completely biased writer.

I mean, what a flake! Most writers at least inform their readers that they have taken a side and are getting paid. This column is far more embarrasing to Duncan Hunter than it is to Ron Paul!

We may not win the nomination, but we have integrity and know what it means to raise your right hand and swear to protect and defend the Constitution. Too bad this writer doesn't understand what that means. "Least conservative"! Hah - ignorance squared!

Literacy
John Hawkins states that Ron Paul's voting record is evidence that he is not a conservative. We can only conclude from his absurd statement that John Hawkins must be on the front lines in the War Against Illiteracy.

The Conservative Case Against Ron Paul
I have only one question.

How many fiat dollars were you paid to produce this ill informed and heavily plagiarized hit peice?

You should be ashamed of yourself.


Re: I can't vote for Paul
"He doesn't think we should kill the headchoppers before they kill us. Is that what you call a non-interventionist?""

You cannot be free if you are a slave to fear.

Are you really afraid of getting your head chopped off if we took all of our troops overseas and brought them home? If anything we'd be more safe... because there would be more troops at home to defend.




North American Union
I wouldn't vote for Ron Paul, but he is absolutely RIGHT about the North American Union! What do you think the Superhighway is all about? Why do you think Congress is blackmailing the American public into passing this horrible Amnesty bill by holding the border fence hostage? If they had any intention of building that border fence, it would already been built. They woould WANT to build it. They don't. There will never be a fence because it would defeat the whole purpose of the North American Union.

Congress is playing deadly games with us. And anyone who thinks they are sincere in any way, is naive beyond belief. Pay attention to what the do (and don't do), not what they SAY.

RON PAUL is most conservative candidate
First of all, I could vote for Duncan Hunter for President and feel pretty good. But I will feel even better voting for RON PAUL because he is the most CONSERVATIVE candidate. Question, is Duncan Hunter on record for withdrawing from the United Nations' madhouse, like any reasonable patriot should be? Can Hunter name 3 or 4 departments he would eliminate right off the bat like Education, Labor, Commerce and Homeland Security (a joke)? So, let's check out RON PAUL's conservative credentials:

Ron Paul: the true conservative

Pro-Life
Anti-Tax
Pro-Secure the Border
Pro-Gun Rights
Pro-U.S. National Sovereignty
Anti-War
Pro-Liberty
Pro-Constitution
Pro-Conservative Judges
Pro-States’ Rights
Anti-IRS
Anti-Federal Reserve
Anti-United Nations



Stop pretending to misunderstand
“Most slaves do not crave freedom, what they crave is a slave of their own.”
• -Sir Richard Burton

RP is giving us the opportunity promised for a lifetime: a chance to give up our dependency on the Federal Government. Are you scared to take responsibility for your own freedom? What would you do with it if you really had it?

Let’s recap:


• 3. Despite the fact RP has unequivocally distinguished himself from the 911 truth movement and their theories, he protects their right to think those thoughts, therefore, he’s crazy.

o Meanwhile, Mr. Hawkins cites the reliable and unbiased voice of Michelle Malkin to try to substantiate his weakly-disguised ad hominem of RP. Malkin unsurprisingly uses the very same technique of association used to substantiate the claim that Hussein was linked to 9/11: end one sentence with “Saddam’s tyranny” and begin the next sentence with “The terror that killed 3000 on our soil…”. This worked once. Did you fall for that too?
• 4. RP said black teenagers who were criminals were fast runners and often apathetic to politics.
o If RP was a seriously racist individual—to the extent that it would carry over into policy-making, wouldn’t we have more material than one sentence spoken years ago, which, when examined, isn’t very controversial?
o As for the sentiments in the newsletter, if RP had said them or anything like it, given his history of consistency, it is likely he would have claimed them as his own. Why would he print it in a newsletter, AND THEN DENY IT? Because he didn’t say it. Was it a bad hiring call by someone in his organization, sure. But the implication that these sentiments are his is unsubstantial political mud which does nothing but attempt to obscure Dr. Paul’s character.
• 5. His supporters are “annoying.”
o Possibly true, but unrelated to why he’s not the right guy for the job.
• 6. Isolationism is bad. It caused WWII. RP is an isolationist and wants to “retreat behind a wall”.
o Either you really don’t understand what RP’s position is, or you are lying. RP’s style of governance is to remove the state from the functions of business as much as possible. It means getting the lugging machinery of federal bureaucracy off the highways of commerce and allowing open markets to work. RP has been extremely clear about this. His is a laissez-faire conception of business. Let government do only what the market cannot.
• 7. RP is weak on the war in Iraq because he’s scared.
o The same old stand-by of the neo-con party line. Why exactly is this war good? In what capacity is the US supposed to serve in Iraq? How would we even know if we “won” in Iraq? These are so numbingly obvious questions that the MSM forgets to ask them, and because you weren’t told to have a thought about them, they roll off your consciousness like water off the bird’s back. Do you really think we can quell a 7-century long conflict with “troop surges”?
• 8. RP blames America for 9/11.
o Another pretended lack of understanding of RP. This is neither stated nor implied by RP’s explanation of blowback. It’s about time a politician spoke with an understanding of the complexities of our relations with other countries. If any presidential candidate does not understand basic political cause-effect relationships, they shouldn’t be within 1000 ft of a foreign policy decision. Your argument is paramount to saying that we can nuke anyone we please, but if anyone attacks us, it’s because they “hate freedom.” That's dangerous and irresponsible and will put more Americans at risk than an honest analysis. At some point, it doesn’t have anything to do with hating freedom. How do you hate freedom, anyway? I suppose you think they have a “war on freedom” that corresponds to our own?
• 9. Repetition of #1: “He’s not one of us.”
o Believe it or not, the Constitution of the US is an important document—not only in a historical sense but in that if we act like we don’t have it, we don’t have it. Federal power will expand as far as we let it and will consume as much of our civil liberties as we allow. If “conservatives” could quit biting their pillows about islamo=fascism long enough to see that OBL isn’t hiding under their beds, we might wake up long enough to put an end to the destruction of our constitutional republic.


It speaks volumes that you feel the need to shed light on what you see as an “obviously” inferior candidate—to the extent that you’ve got to list out the top 9 emotional grunts about why you should feel bad about voting for him. Whether or not we can ever agree in this realm depends on what you believe the priority of the office of the POTUS should be. Al Qaeda can’t take away my freedom with violence, but the President can do it with legislation and secret programs.

All this talk about national security is bullsh!t. Let’s be honest: as regular Americans, most of us don’t cry ourselves to sleep every night worrying about terrorist threats. Our biggest problems revolve around money and family. How can I possibly owe this much to the IRS? Can the state really compel my daughter to get a shot for something that isn’t contagious? Why am I subsidizing oil companies? etc., etc.

Now don’t misunderstand me: I’m not saying “Osama bin Laden doesn’t exist.” I am saying that we already have enough military power to handle our threats if we use our might wisely. You might think wisdom and integrity are slogan words, but some individuals actually possess these qualities. We need them to once again occupy the Whitehouse.

Your arguments are weak. Your conclusions are forced. What is clear, however, is you are afraid of what RP stands for: integrity, consistency and liberty. Again, these are not only words on political websites—they are qualities that some people possess. Ron Paul is unquestionably one of those people.

Stop blaming RP for your fear of freedom and take responsibility.


USA is under attack
It sure is. And it is not just by the headchoppers. USA national sovereignty is under attack by folks like Bush, Clinton, Soros, Kennedy, Guiliani, Romney, McCain, US Chamber of Commerce, La Raza, Mecha, LULAC, MALDEF, Harry Reid, Mitch McConnell, Trent Lott, Barbara Boxer.

The attackers are Open Borders, the UN, the North American Union, the SPP signed by Bush, NAFTA, CAFTA, International Criminal Court, Law of Seas Treaty. By the way NONE of these are democratically backed organizations.

Folks, either get in the fight against these anti-American organizations or get ready to lose the USA and many of the rights and freedoms under our Constitution that you (not me!!) take for granted.


Liberty
We've played that game on other threads and you've thoroughly tired it out by now. YOU'RE A LIBERTARIAN. That's fine, just don't claim to be a better conservative than me.

Stop wasting our time. Create a libertarian site where you can congregate and talk about what bad conservatives those THers are.

Goodbye.

I bet RON PAUL
gets a LOT more votes than Duncan Hunter does in the primaries next year. RON PAUL's campaign has some wonderful momentum. Wouldn't it be great to see Ron Paul in the so-called top tier of candidates after he WINS the New Hampshire primary, which he as a very real shot of doing? Vote for Ron Paul, the TRUE conservative running for President.

Disgraceful smear ad
I couldn't believe this disgusting thing when I read it. I immediately felt obliged to respond with corrections but others have done the job commendably. This is a crude attempt at a smear ad cloaked as "analysis", from a consultant for Duncan Hunter, and it's not even a good one at that. I don't know who I'm more embarrassed for - the dim-witted author or TownHall for publishing his crap.

In other words
#8) Ron Paul excused Al-Qaeda's attacks on

"IN OTHER WORDS, America deserved to be attacked by Al-Qaeda." John Hawkins
Mr.Hawkins,Mr.Paul did not say this and I think you know he did not mean Americans deserved to be attacked.....so why would you write that. He clearly said it was America's government foreign policy that is in question sir so why why would you say Ron Paul thinks America deserved to be attacked?
In your heart Mr.Hawkins...do you see Mr.Paul did not mean what you said. Mr.Paul is a gentlemen and a gentle man sir. Mr.Paul deserves respect and so do your readers Mr.Hawkins. Do you see how people are defending this man sir do you really see it? We are defending him because we have seen his honesty and humility. Most other candidates are boastful....Ron Paul is not. Most candidates speak of war and torture...Ron Paul does not. Look at Mr.Paul for...yourself please sir. All politics aside and all this who's right and left and up and down...
With all respect to you John Hawkins....I wish you well
Michael

Ron Paul
has been admirably defended by many posters already.

It's good to see some still remember the Republican Party came to power under Reagan through the work of libertarians like Goldwater and an even earlier fusion of libertarian individualists and anti-liberal traditionalists.

All I can add is that defense of RP above gives some hope for the Republican Party against what I think the party is becoming, all too well represented by the likes of John Hawkins: Socialist cons (i.e., liberals not conservatives) who are anti-Constitutional, big government, nationalistic populists.

My rebuttal to #2
It seems wrong to cite an article to defend your position that you wrote originally.

http://www.rightwingnews.com/archives/week_2007_01_07.PHP#007134

As I was reading it, it started to get a little hypocritical. Swift Boat Veterans for Truth may lose their credibility for supporting this? If you consider it lost, did they have it 4 years ago? And if they did, how do men who are much older than you, lose it so quickly?

Here you try to make sure we are all "together".

"But, for just a moment, let's forget about Corsi and let's talk about you. Do you think America should jealously guard its sovereignty? Good, so do I. Do you oppose the amnesty plan for illegal aliens that George Bush favors? Good, so do I. Would you oppose any sort of North American Union if it were ever offered up? Good, so would I."

Additionally you talk of Lou Dobbs losing his credibility.

"...it disturbs me to see them damaging their reputations when we may need their influence on issues like illegal immigration over the next couple of years."

If the message of freedom and our sovereignty is so powerful, we shouldn't need people like Lou Dobbs. But you seem to think so. Just like we need people against this North American Union because you can't see it to protect us. Thank you Lou Dobbs. He has courage.

And the Ron Paul article you cited to prove your point was a great read. He mentioned quotes from the government sites and told me to read them myself.

""Let's examine just a couple of the many troubling statements on the SPP's US government website:

"We affirm our commitment to strengthen regulatory cooperation...and to have our central regulatory agencies complete a trilateral regulatory cooperation framework by 2007"

Though the US administration insists that the SPP does not undermine US sovereignty, how else can one take statements like this? How can establishing a "trilateral regulatory cooperation" not undermine our national sovereignty?""

It is a good thing I'm human, since my head didn't explode.

Yesterday was great too. Here in Florida, we had a local meetup and there was about 35-40 people. Only 2 truthers that spoke about 9/11, but everyone else wants him to win for conservative reasons. Tonight is the sign waving. :)

And I'm the kind of guy who doesn't comment on boards, or give money to a politician. Dr. Paul is bringing people together.

Silly article
Mr. Hawkins is just being a stooge. His candidate,, Duncan Hunter is polling a zero in New Hampshire, whimped out on dissenting on a gun control bill, and is testifying in front of Congress today for his boondoggle earmarks.

I have suspected that Mr.Hunter is just a stalking horse who will endorse Fred Thompson (member Council on Foreign Relations, hence Mr.Hawkins disparaging North American Union plans as conspiracy theory), now I can rest my case.

RP

Ron Paul has some wonderful positions on taxes, guns, welfare, small government etc. But his position on foreign policy is unrealistic to the point of absurdity.

And for those of you who have taken the opportunity to make accusations against Mr. Hawkins due to his view of Dr. Paul, you are hypocritical at best. It is easy to see that most of you who are criticizing Mr. Hawkins are yourselves guilty of a lack of research into the subject of your ridicule. You don't have a clue about Mr. Hawkins.

For those of you who criticize Mr. Hawkins for his position with the Hunter campaign, I find it very telling that you fail to notice that he does not hide that fact. He clearly states at the end of every article he writes about any candidate that he is a Hunter consultant. That allows you to take that point into consideration when you read his writing. But then I get the distinct impression from the writings of many of the commenter’s, that it is convenient for you to ignore this point.

That said, if Ron Paul would open his eyes in regard to foreign policy, I would vote for him in a heartbeat. However I don’t expect that to happen anytime soon.

Great point-by-point counter
There have been some wonderful cases put up against this sham of a case against Ron Paul. Ron Paul is indeed quite conservative, but even though he's conservative I disagree with him on three points:

1.) The war in Iraq was not a war for oil as he contended during the third debate
2.) Iran is in fact a national threat, which he argued against
3.) Marijuana should not be legalized as he demands. It's sensible to promote some public virtue (such as censoring swearing on television) and prohibit inebriated states as a matter of prudence.

Still, if nominated he'll get my vote.

A real constitutionalist, anyone?
I am a libertarian and a Republican, and I won't vote for Ron Paul. It's not because he claims to be a libertarian, because I claim that moniker, myself. It's not that I think he's a racist, because I agree with Charlton Heston that talking about race doesn't make you a racist. It's not even that he is the least electable candidate from the two major parties (a categorization that is true, regardless of what his well-meaning supporters want to believe). I will admit that his views on international relations have always looked a little too isolationist to me, as evidenced by his apparent fear over NAFTA, but that's not even the reason why I won't vote for him. The reason I won't vote for him is that I don't agree with his understanding of the U.S. Constitution.

Yes, I know, his supporters will savage me for daring to suggest that Ron Paul doesn't understand the constitution, since he is one of the only Members of Congress who regularly bases his votes on what the constitution says. I think he is to be commended for that, and we woudl all be better off if more Members of Congress did the same. My problem is not with his devotion to the constitution, which is absolutely laudable, but with his interpretation of the constitution as a libertarian document. In fairness, I have yet to figure out if any of the other candidates even care about the constitution.

Thompson and McCain don't seem to care about free speech, as two of the biggest supporters of the worst restriction on political speech since the Anti-Sedition Laws in the days of Jefferson and Adams. Romney's comments regarding an assault weapons ban seems to indicate a disturbing lack of understanding about the Second Amendment. Guliani seems to follow the "fudamental liberties from the 9th amendment" crowd, which allows the government to do whatever it wants under the Commerce Clause, unless it violates some unwritten "fundamental liberties" covered, supposedly, by the 9th amendment, which basically allow the courts to strike down any law they personally disagree with. The other candidates may be better than the front-runners at abiding by the meaning of the constitution, but they don't talk about it, so I have no way of knowing, for sure.

As a libertarian and a Republican, I would love to see the Republican party nominate another candidate like Ronald Reagan, who would have the guts to say that government is the problem, not the answer. However, I just don't believe that Ron Paul is that candidate.

Authoritarians
If "conservative" is now defined as being consistent w/ the more authoritarian-minded folk of the Right, then Ron Paul is, of course, beyond the pale.

But for those who still believe in a conservatism more consistent w/ the ideas, ideals, and policies of Ronald Reagan and Barry Goldwater, then Ron Paul is at least worthy of a look.

Mr. Hawkins needs new brain parts
Once again, Mr. Hawkins proves that he is bought and paid for by the CFR, Bilderbergers, Trilateralists and the UN loving one worlders.
The North American Union is real and is also the death of America. Hawkins and his ilk have been hacking away at these sacred shores and our constitution for decades.

Courtesy of the GOP, America is pursuing a path of Mexican style oligarchy and Nazi style fascism. Whenever big government merges with big business, liberty vanishes.

So Mr. Hawkins opposes the constitution and U.S. sovereignty. What else is new? He's been at this for a long time. I couldn't live with myself if I were a paid hack for the enemy.

Hawkins really doesn't matter anyway. Enough folks have awaken to the bitter truth and have abandoned the GOP, a party who has been living off of borrowed constituencies for decades.

I suppose Mr. Hawkins also supports the UN Law of the Sea Treaty - another sovereignty slashing horror that places 70% of the earth's resources under UN control and elitist rule.

Ron Paul is the only true constitutional conservative in the GOP line-up.

A Conservative Case Against John Hawkins
You are as lost as every other "Republican". Don't feel bad, I was in your shoes 1 year ago too.
1. RP's voting record is more conservative than any other candidate.
2. You explain the lack of fence and enforcment on our borders especially with the "War on terror" on someone elses soil BS that we've been hearing for almost 5 years now.
3. He promotes free thought, clearly something you don't support if they don't agree with your conservative views. I ask you, was JFK assination a conspiracy? Some very big government officials think so. Are you going to bash them too?
4.Rascist: Although he apologized for some of his statements. If criminals were actually punished, the question would have never been asked.
5.Irritating supporters/spammers....I find it amazing that so many people like you John believe only spammers exist in RP's camp. I have been a "conservative" for 20+ years and I have never seen such media biasness. Please go to meetup.com. I find it difficult to believe that the spammers have the ability to clone themselves to make it to multiple "meetup" meetings at one time accross the country.
6. Isolationist: I would rather be in one victorious world war that takes less time than one police action that is officially lasted longer.
7.Cut and Run...No, RP was one of the few that voted NO in the first place. Please be sure to email me your thoughts about the trillion dollars we've spent in our military up to the time we have invaded Iran.
8. Excused Al-Qaeda: Sorry john, Stating a CIA report doesn't mean he excused Iran. Maybe if RP got a little more voice time on the debates or you would listen to his other interviews you would understand this. Clearly you are unaware of the reading assignment RP gave Rudy about 9/11. Can you explain our recent success in our foriegn policy? Oh yeah, RP voted yes to go to war with Afgahnistan.
9. Single least electable: I know a lot of Dems and repubs that are extremely fed up with the fed buddy. Not acknowledging unfair trade with China and the like will continue to bury us as we run out of green ink. We are in for a big hurt, I would rather go through it with a leader that stands by our constitution.
Summary...So undesirable that he RP has been elected 10 consecutive terms...hmmm.

John explain to me how the republican party is conservative based on our foreign policy, our domestic policy and all the government programs and trillions of dollars of spending government has done.
RP may not get elected, but he is the most conservative and intelligent candidate in the whole lot.

Would You Sign the “Freedom Pledge”?

From the American Freedom Agenda:

Freedom Pledge

I, (candidate), hereby pledge that if elected President of the United States I will undertake the following to restore the Constitution’s checks and balances, to honor fundamental protections against injustice, and to eschew usurpations oflegislative or judicial power.These are keystones of national security and individual freedom:

READ MORE

http://controlcongress.com/2008-election/would-you-sign-the-freedom-pledge

you guys really are scared $%@#less!!!
Mr. ChickenHawkins,

this is the most childish, futile, and Orwellian attmept to destroy Dr. Pauls reputation yet.

your opinions are laughable, mindless and utterly dismissable...you admit it in the first line

"Even though he's not one of the top tier contenders"...

if hes not top tier, i would expect the typical War Monger Republicrat response, which would be to IGNORE him. Why bother writing if he DOES NOT matter.

the attention you give to this irrelevant candidate makes him relevant indeed!!!!

im sending more money to Dr. Paul TODAY

i urge the rest of the "Spammers" to do the same

Educating Rudy on Iraq by Ron Paul

This is a great video everybody should see about Iraq!


CLICK HERE

http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/educating-rudy-on-iraq-by-ron-paul

Also watch this video!

Called FOX SPIN on Ron Paul

Click Here

http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/educating-rudy-on-iraq-by-ron-paul

Educating Rudy on Iraq by Ron Paul

This is a great video everybody should see about Iraq!


CLICK HERE

http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/educating-rudy-on-iraq-by-ron-paul

Also watch this video!

Called FOX SPIN on Ron Paul

Click Here

http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/educating-rudy-on-iraq-by-ron-paul

lughead John Hawkins has writer's diarrh
To the employees and writers of Clown Hall:

I'm afraid that the young lughead John Hawkins has writer's diarrhea and should be back in high school. He is rehashing old manure about Dr. Ron Paul that he read in a comic book. The article "The Conservative Case Against Ron Paul" is rehashed stuff taken from a 2-bit peep show and he calls it a column. None of it is true, but he was too busy smoking coffee to look up the facts.

Ron Paul is the only real conservative among the candidates and has the best conservative record according to several conservative sites. Conservatives have traditionally been for small Federal government, less taxes, and no foreign wars without just cause. Most of the other candidates are establishment neocon stooges like John Hawkins and Clown Hall. The micro brain of young John Hawkins does not understand that.

The reason you are against Ron Paul is because let's face it, Clown Hall is in the hip pocket of the Israeli lobby, your primary allegiance is to Israel, not the US, and you will shake hands with Antichrist when he rules the world. Ron Paul is evenhanded with both Arabs and Israelis and doesn't play favorites, as it should be - the only way to world peace.

The Town Hall should be renamed "Clown Hall"

Dr. Ward Ciac
Ivy League Prof

Where Do They Get These Guys
Hawkins is a Journalistic Douchebag. Where do they get these people? Town Hall has a few prncipled people: Greenberg, Williams....well too few. People like Hawkins are nothing more than parrots for a Bush/Giulliani/Thompson conservatism wherein you could add the company of Hitler, Mousillini or Stalin; all who shared Hawkins' view of Freedom, Liberty and Less Government.

The operative word in libertarian: Liberty. He should pick up a copy of the Constitution and read it. Sounds like he and Rudy track the same uninformed historical track.

Life Long CONSERVATIVE republican for RON PAUL

I can't support Ron Paul
I can't support Ron Paul for all the reasons Hawkins listed, especially numbers 6 and 7.

Sept. 11 and the libertarian (lack of) reaction to it destroyed my libertarian leanings, except in matters economic.

Fortress America cannot protect America from terrorism. Communications and transportation advances in the last 60 years eliminated the "ocean moat" advantage America held for 160 years.

If we would follow libertarian prescriptions for our defense, we would have no defense against terrorism. They oppose helping allies, they oppose the Patriot Act, they oppose spying on terrorism. They are in effect pacifists on the war on terrorism. They are as bad as Evil Leftists on these issues.

If you love America, please don't support Ron Paul or any other libertarian in 2008 or ever again.

No Mas
I think most of the posts here convey my feelings about Dr Paul as well.

I note that political philosophy aside, Ron Paul has several qualities that transcend politics:

He has integrity,
He has personal honor,
He is uncompromisingly honest in his views,
He is a fierce patriot,
AND he is rabidly anti-globalist.

Unfortunately, 99.999999% of the denizens of DC have no such constraints on their character.

Nuff said....

I will vote for Ron in a second, with no misgivings.

Wash Post writes:
There's always some idiot moonbat who has to blame the jews! Bet you are a big Hitler fan.

It's apparent to me
That the GOP, has joined the Dem's in the bankruptcy of ideas, and are merely attempting to scare you into voting for them. It really showed itself in the last election on Hannity's show("if you want to wake up Wed. morning and hear 'Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi...blah,blah,blah..."). This so-called column perpetuates my belief

Go Ron Paul! Go Ron Paul! God Bless Ron!
Ron Paul for President 2008!

Ron Paul - FANTASTIC! Don’t Tread On Me Video!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=FG_HuFtP8w8

“In the time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act” GEORGE ORWELL

Labels
I really DON'T CARE what label you put on Ron Paul. As Ron himself has said "Labels divide us, liberty unites us."
I really don't care what names you call him, Ron Paul is RIGHT on most issues (yes, I disagree with him on a few) and he is THE ONLY candidate worth voting for.
Nobody else is even talking about repealing the income tax and replacing it with NOTHING. Ron Paul is. He plans to push for a reduction in the size and expense of government back (at least) to the size it was before GW Bush started making it bigger. If government spending was reduced to the level it was at before GWB took office, we could repeal the income tax and replace it with NOTHING.
Nobody else is talking about the damage done to this country by the Federal Reserve System. Every depression and recession we've had since 1913 has been the fault of the Fed. The dollar has lost 96% of its value since 1913. Only Ron Paul will fix this problem.
And if you think that having our brave young men and women dying in Iraq is a good idea here's a proposal for you - GO THERE and get the hell out of the US. You are no patriot, sir. Our blood and treasure is being wasted in Iraq and if you can't understand that, you have no business being in the media and spewing propaganda for the administration.
Ron Paul Revolution! Ron Paul in 2008.

operative word in libertarian: Liberty
Liberty also share the same root as liberal, that doesn't mean liberals care about liberty.

The ACLU has the word liberties in their title. That doesn't mean the care squat about you or me.

So call yourselve whatever you like. It means nothing.

Some important corrections . . .
1}Endorsing RW Reagan a/o being friendly w/Reagan does NOT constitute conservatism. GHW Bush & Wm Jeff Clinton are friends. Jas Carville is married to Mary Matalin.

2}Almost w/o exception, every libertarian claims to be conservative. Not true: Many are Repubs, but almost none is conservative. Note how many libs don't like to be called "Libs" either!

3}Anyone not believing The N Amer Union plan has not been keeping up: There is plenty of evidence that it is happening. If you don't know where to look, you won't believe it when you read it anyway . . . or your dad's in the CFR. OtOH, there is no evidence of US Gov't-backed 9-11 conspiracy, Rosie.

4}I doubt seriously that Mr Hawkins is trying to "ruin" REP Paul. If REP Paul is to be ruined, he is plenty capable of accomplishing that on his own. As f/"striking fear," I believe that if you really want to see fear, mention FD Thompson to any Dem/lib/Leftist.

5}The least electable cand is REP(D- OH) Dennis Kucinich.

Why Ron Paul is the only conservative
All of the other republicans have supported socialist policies like drug precription benefit programs and progressive attempts at nation building abroad at the expense of hard working americans who give large percentages of their paychecks to the government.

All of the other republicans are scared to criticize marxists programs fruadulent, unconstitutional pyramid schemes like Social Security and Medicare.

All of the other republicans seem to believe that stretching our military recources thinly across Germany, the middle East and all the way to North Korea while running us into huge debt with the Chinese government is somehow a "Strong Defense", when in fact it makes us extremely vulnerable to attack financially and militarily.

All of the other republicans appear hard pressed to name one decent book that would help explain their intellectual philosophy. This can be best explained by the fact that no consistent philosphy underlies their decisions except a Machiavellian drive to consolidate power and exploit the tax payers in the most efficient manner.

Ron Paul is the only candidate who truly has the taxpayer interests at heart.

Ron Paul
I must enlarge problem #5 (irritating supporters) by adding this comment:


Generally I respect people's views and think of their opinions that I disagree with as - at worst - misguided. However when you said "The last time the United States retreated to isolationism was after WW1 and the result was WW2." I reached the point where I must question your intelligence.

First of all, no...no use explaining it.


consider brushing up on your history,


Josh

P.S. The rest of the article was illogical too (just not as blantently)


Gabe,

I would love to have RP in charge of our taxes, federal budge, pork etc.

I just cannot accept his stance on foreign policy. It simply is not realistic.

Ron Paul wants an America for ALL Americ
Cos, you are namecalling. Ron Paul wants an America for ALL Americans! He is not bought out by special interests like most of the other candidates. And is record speaks to that.

Dr Wash Post

I like Paul
He's the first candidate for Pres. I ever voted for back in '92 when he ran as a Libertarian. I have voted for TRUE originalists ever since.

I think Tancredo "The Tank", Hunter, Paul, The Libertarian Party, and the Constitution Party should hold some high-level meetings and throw all of their support behind a single candidate in an effort to destroy the elite candidates.

Also, John, what make you think that a NAU is a theory? What is the difference between the EU and the NAU? Is the EU a theory? Have you ever read the NAFTA? Have you read the NAFTA's implementing legislation (all 4,500 pages of it)?, Do you know what is meant by the word "transparency" when it comes to legislation adopted in international agreements? Have you ever heard of the International Code Council?

A conspiracy? No. It's an ideology.

Answer the questions if you have the guts.

Six Gun

.....you wrote ..."unfortunately, 99.999999% of the denizons of DC have no such constraints on their character." ...

.....And that is why Paul would be ineffective as President ...He is an Idealist in a land of pragmatists ...he is Don Quixote tilting at windmills ...

.....for example ...I think that the Department of Education should be abolished ...the 16th Amendment should be repealed and the Income tax should be replaced with the Fair Tax ...both the income tax and the Dept. of Education are pillars of Communism that have ingrained themselves into our society ...

....My question is ...could Paul if he were President ...free us of either of these abominations? ...the answer is no! ...not unless 2/3 of the House and the Senate and the voters agreed with him ...so why should I vote for Paul if he won't be able to get anything accomplished? ...

.....the problem with idealism is that it has to butt heads with reality ...Paul cannot be a leader unless he can convince others to follow ...and his followers are too few to make a difference ...Paul should be a teacher ...maybe at the University of Houston .....COLOSSUS

This guy is an idiot
Let's face it, he wrote the article because he's a neo-con. 534 members of congress betray their oath of office on a daily basis and this guy is going to bash the one guy who doesn't?

If you equate Republicans with conservatives then you don't know the meaning of the word. Bush and his big spending buddies make me sick to my stomach. They have betrayed this nation and should be tried for treason.

Signing McCain-Feingold into law should be grounds for impeachment. Are the psuedo conservatives Hawkins obviously supports the best American has to offer? You know McCain, Rudy et al snicker at people who actually believe the constitution is the law of the land. They know damn well that the law is whatever they and 9 ambulance chasers in pajamamas say it is.

Republicans and Democrats: how the hell do you tell them apart? Bush is a friggin' liberal. "Compassion" this.

Ron Paul excused Sept 11
But the second Republican debate (5/15/07) flipped this media script, when Republican candidate Ron Paul dared to raise a taboo subject: Al-Qaeda's statements about the September 11 attacks.

"They attack us because we've been over there, we've been bombing Iraq for 10 years," Paul said. "We've been in the Middle East.... Have you ever read about the reasons they attacked us?"

Nevermind that we DEFEATED Iraq and our flyovers and bombings were ENFORCING the ceasefire. But facts never got in the way of libertarian beliefs.

"They attacked us because we've been over there," sounds like excusing the attacks to me. It sounds like sucking up to Islamofascist terrorism to me. It sounds like Evil Leftist pacifist whinings to me. The same rotten stuff the late, non-lamented Harry Browne said about America.

I told you, on foreign policy and American power in the world and protecting America, the libertarians are anti-American, just like Evil Leftists. Ron Paul believes that junk. If you love America, don't vote for Ron Paul!

Isolationism
I thought that the Draconian Peace of Versailles, the failed League of Nations, the chickenshit British, and FDR caused WWII, not isolationism in the US.

Tancredo in 2008.

Don_cos
What did Wash Post say that merited you referring to him as a Nazi? I saw that he mentioned the Israeli lobby. Now, how exactly does mentioning the powerful lobby, AIPAC, equate to anti-semitism?

Seriously, would you explain further?

Lestat
If you think Paul isn't a conservative, with his stance on the border and abortion the way it is, which are very different from the libertarian party's stance, you've got a lot to learn. Before spouting off your opinion in a forum where everyone can see how ignorant you are, maybe you should do some research. Just aa suggestion.

TheLeftIsEvil
Wow. We defeated Iraq, did we? Is that why the death toll is increasing, insurgent activity is increasing, we're continuing to lose troops over there, and all while costing us 10-20 Billion a month? I must say, your analysis of the situation is quite god at ignoring all the facts.

We did enforce the ceasefire with fly overs, a UN imposed half-assed weak POS ceasefire. If you want America enforcing the edict of the UN, you are obviously an America hater.

I guess having American troops in 134 different countries around the world is protecting us, I mean, when American troops were in a 120 different countries around the world in 2001, they did a great job of defending us then. Let's spread them a little thinner!

Our conventional military prowess is worthless against deterring terrorists. Utterly worthless. The deterrence worked fine during the cold war. The conservative idea of defence, pouring money into the DOD, will work against deterring other nations like Iran, North Korea, China, or the old USSR, but they are totally wothless against terrorists and insurgents. An infantry division or a new $200 million dollar fighter or a new nuclear submarine are not effective tools in fighting terrorism. Effective counter-insurgencies are not fought with these items, but on a much smaller and more precise scale. Since the 1940s, the US military has been trained and equipped to fight a like-enemy. Thankfully they are switching emphasis from fighting a like-enemy to fighting insurgencies. Did you know from 1940 until the present day there has only been one victory by a large and advanced Western nation over a poor and backwards developing nation in a guerrila war? That's something to ponder. How worth while was our huge deterrence during the Clinton years in deterring terrorism, or the attack on our barracks in 1983 Lebanon or the bombing of the West Berlin disco tech or the taking of our hostages in Iran? Conservatives need to realize that you CANNOT fight this war like the last one. When you fight the next war like you fought the last one, you will lose. The French learned that in World War II when they tried to fight it using WWI tactics and we are learning it now in Iraq and Afghanistan. If the conservatives don't wake up and realize that this war is a little different from the Cold War or WWII, then they will doom us to defeat.

And the point is made.
"My lord what the hell has happened to this country and the educational system???" he asked, using three question marks, like a 12 year-old bimbo.

No doubt the RP wackjobs proved Hawkins's point about annoying people.

DJ Drummond
I find Mr. Paul completely unqualified for the job he is seeking. I largely agree with Mr. Hawkins' article.

I would also recommend to thsoe who disliked Mr. Hawkins' piece, to consider that personal insults and attacks appear, to my eyes and others', to support contention #5. That is, your method of argument is damaging your own case.

And thanks to Lorie Byrd for linking to this article.

DJ Drummond

The real reason for this article, IMHO
I think the real reason for this article was simply to allow supporters of Ron Paul to post.

While a few of RP's supporters offer reasoned responses, the vast majority of the postings supporting RP go into attack mode... and that, I think, is **precisely** what the author of the article wants others to see.

It is so much more revealing to read what RP's supporters say than what any writer of an article disagreeing with RP says.

For RP's supporters, I would remind you of a quote which seems to fit far too many of you: "We have met the enemy and they is us."


Ron Paul = Lyndon LaRouche
All one has to do is read the jaded "cut and paste" comments that always appear at the whiff of Ron Paul's name on any blog. It hardly matters that Paul is or isn't a good candidate. His FOLLOWERS are passionately nutty. It's a CULT. You guys are SCARY!

Liberty ~ What did Wash Post say that
merited you referring to him as a Nazi?

This;

"The reason you are against Ron Paul is because let's face it, Clown Hall is in the hip pocket of the Israeli lobby, your primary allegiance is to Israel, not the US, and you will shake hands with Antichrist when he rules the world"

Good Nazi strategy, Blame the JOOOOOOOOWS!

TheLeftisEvil
"I told you, on foreign policy and American power in the world and protecting America, the libertarians are anti-American, just like Evil Leftists. Ron Paul believes that junk. If you love America, don't vote for Ron Paul!"

You told us, eh? So, I guess you are saying that the 9-11 Commission Report, CIA Intelligence, foreign policy experts, the Chief of the CIA's bin Laden unit and even arch neocon, Paul Wolfowitz are wrong? Nice to know you know so much more than everyone else.

Ron Paul is a libertarian-conservative. You might remember that President Reagan also referred to his ideology as such. Are you calling President Reagan, anti-American? What's that you say? ;-)

Ron Paul has a 100% conservative voting record and stands for exactly what we traditional conservatives (aka REAL ones) have always held dear. Things like believing that our elected public servants should abide by their oaths of office to protect and defend the Constitution; limited Constitutional government; personal privacy; personal responsibility; fiscal responsibility in government and a strong national defense.

FOX news' Judge Andrew Napolitano recently referred to Dr. Paul as the "Thomas Jefferson of our day." Watch it here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8QwTKKSvR8

Let's not forget what our Founders told us...

“The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first.” – Thomas Jefferson

"Peace, commerce and honest friendship with all nations; entangling alliances with none."
-- Thomas Jefferson

"America does not go abroad in search of monsters to destroy. She is the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all. She well knows that by enlisting under other banners than her own, were they even the banners of foreign independence, she would involve herself beyond the power of extrication in all the wars of interest and intrigue, of individual avarice, envy and ambition, which assume the colors and usurp the standards of freedom."
-- John Quincy Adams

"Good intentions will always be pleaded for any assumption of power. The Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters."
-- Daniel Webster

"For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it might cost, I am willing to know the whole truth; to know the worst,and to provide for it." --Patrick Henry

Dr. Paul is telling us the truth. It may seem strange to some of us, because it has been so very long since we have been told the truth by our elected representatives. The truth may also sting, but hopefully it will wake us up from our slumber, so we can rally to the aid of our crumbling Republic. She needs us so very badly right now.

---------------------------

CLIFF’S NOTES FOR RUDY

"His [bin Laden’s] rhetoric selectively draws from multiple sources -- Islam, history, and the region's political and economic malaise. He also stresses grievances against the United States widely shared in the Muslim world. He inveighed against the presence of U.S. troops in Saudi Arabia, the home of Islam's holiest sites. He spoke of the suffering of the Iraqi people as a result of sanctions imposed after the Gulf War..."-- 9/11 Commission Report, pages 48-49

"There are a lot of things that are different now [after the invasion of Iraq], and one that has gone by almost unnoticed -- but it's huge -- is that by complete mutual agreement between the US and the Saudi government we can now remove almost all of our forces from Saudi Arabia. Their presence there over the last 12 years has been a source of enormous difficulty for a friendly government. It's been a huge recruiting device for al-Qaeda. In fact if you look at bin Laden, one of his principle grievances was the presence of so- called crusader forces on the holy land, Mecca and Medina. I think just lifting that burden from the Saudis is itself going to open the door to other positive things."-- Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz, Vanity Fair, May 2003

"One of the greatest dangers for Americans in deciding how to confront the Islamist threat lies in continuing to believe -- at the urging of senior U.S. leaders -- that Muslims hate and attack us for what we are and think, rather than for what we do. The Islamic world is not so offended by our democratic system of politics, guarantees of personal rights and civil liberties, and separation of church and state that it is willing to wage war against overwhelming odds in order to stop Americans from voting, speaking freely, and praying, or not, as they wish."-- Michael Scheuer (former head the CIA's bin Laden unit), Imperial Hubris, page 8

"We assume, moreover, that bin Laden and the Islamists hate us for our liberty, freedoms, and democracy -- not because they and many millions of Muslims believe U.S. foreign policy is an attack on Islam or because the U.S. military now has a ten-year record of smashing people and things in the Islamic world."-- Michael Scheuer (former head the CIA's bin Laden unit), Imperial Hubris, page 165

"The U.S. invasion of Iraq is Osama bin Laden's gift from America, one he has long and ardently desired, but never realistically expected."-- Michael Scheuer (former head the CIA's bin Laden unit), Imperial Hubris, page 213

"Although suicide terrorism is virtually always a response to foreign occupation, only some occupations lead to this result. Suicide terrorism is most likely when the occupying power's religion differs from the religion of the occupied, for three reasons. A conflict across a religious divide increases fears that the enemy will seek to transform the occupied society; makes demonization, and therefore killing, of enemy civilians easier; and makes it easier to use one's own religion to relabel suicides that would otherwise be taboo as martyrdom instead."-- Robert A. Pape, Dying to Win, page 22

"An attempt to transform Muslim societies through regime change is likely to dramatically increase the threat we face. The root cause of suicide terrorism is foreign occupation and the threat that foreign military presence poses to the local community's way of life. ... Even if our intentions are good, anti-American terrorism would likely grow, and grow rapidly."-- Robert A. Pape, Dying to Win, page 245

"The suicidal assassins of September 11, 2001 did not 'attack America,' as political leaders and news media in the United States have tried to maintain; they attacked American foreign policy. Employing the strategy of the weak, they killed innocent bystanders, whose innocence is, of course, no different from that of the civilians killed by American bombs in Iraq, Serbia, Afghanistan, and elsewhere."-- Chalmers Johnson, Blowback, page XV

"The term 'blowback,' which officials of the Central Intelligence Agency first invented for their own internal use, is starting to circulate among students of international relations. It refers to the unintended consequences of policies that were kept secret from the American people. What the daily press reports as the malign acts of 'terrorists' or 'drug lords' or 'rogue states' or 'illegal arms merchants' often turn out to be blowback from earlier American operations."-- Chalmers Johnson, Blowback, page 8

SOURCE of the Cliff’s Notes for Rudy is the Ron Paul 2008 Presidential Campaign Committee
http://kissofjudice.townhall.com/

Press conference at National Press Club with Ron Paul and Michael Scheuer (former Chief, CIA bin Laden Unit):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAt6Pf7jZjA

Interview after the press conference:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4A45NG8tOCQ

Read before you post.
"Hawkins won't tell you this (and won't disclose his connexion with Hunter)" ~ Nilsson

Did you miss this at the end of the article?

"Mr. Hawkins is a professional blogger who runs Conservative Grapevine and Right Wing News. He also writes a weekly column for Townhall.com and consults for the Duncan Hunter campaign."

You will find a statement noting his status as a Hunter consultant at the end of every article he writes on one of the candidates.

In Other Words, When You Lose, Run Away
and declare victory, hmm?

I will say again, Douglass, to you and your group, that nothing I say will damage your cause half so much as your own tactics are doing. Poiema merely warns you of the obvious.


Don_cos
LOL. I don't know so much about the whole anti-Christ thing, but I don't see how you can call, "Clown Hall is in the hip pocket of the Israeli lobby, your primary allegiance is to Israel, not the US"..... anti-semitic.

Don, isn't AIPAC one of the most influential lobbies on our government, that exists? I'm not remarking on whether this IS, or is not, a good thing. Just stating fact.

Here's another thing I have never understood. Perhaps you can explain it to me. Why is it that if anyone dare mention disagreement with a member of the Israeli government, AIPAC, etc., are they immediately deemed, anti-semitic? Is it such that the Israeli government is apart from every other government on the face of the earth, and is above reproach or comment, except in agreeing with their every move? If so, why?

Seems to me that disagreeing with the actions of a government public servant, or the actions of a PAC, is quite different than blaming a whole race of people. Anyway, that's my opinion. Perhaps you could enlighten me.

what a hatchet job
I don't feel that Ron Paul is electable but I do resent the nature of this article. Several commentators have correctly rebutted your points. I would like to add my own.

We did bring on the 9/11 attack. Please go out and ask any Muslim. That does not mean we deserved it but if you have a military policy in the Middle East, you are going to have people respond. Muslim do hate our life style and if you read Hitchens book you will see that we are at war with them. But the reason for 9/11 was our Middle East policy. The statement of Rudy G. at the debate was as dumb as it gets.

If you look at a good many of Ron Paul's supporters, they are professionals who are sick to death of Washington. I think that one of the aims of Ron Paul is to establish a national presence and have a voice for Libertarian views in the Republican party. Certainly with the abuse we have had from Bush and the RNC and other Republican leaders, something has got to change.

Town Hall
I will at least give credit to Mr. Hawkins for at least attempting to discuss Ron Paul's positons, though some of them are pretty disingenuous (his supporters are annoying?). But at least he took the time to explain his dislike of Ron Paul, rather than just lobbing nonsense without attempting to back it up.

At this point, by my count, townhall.com has allowed Benito Giuliani, Fred Thompson and a consultant from Duncan Hunter's campaign to write articles on their pages. Will a representative from Ron Paul's campaign get his chance to speak on these pages as well?

Ron Paul is too a conservative
Ron Paul is a conservative. Libertarians generally line up with conservatives, so hawkins is making a distinction with very little practical difference between the two orientations. ALL of the positions Hawkins finds objectionable can be found among both conservative pundits and conservative voters. If Paul isn't a conservative, then neither are lots of people who write for and post to TH.

As for Paul's views on race, those are certainly compatible with the views of many conservatives.

Apply the duck rule to Paul: he looks, acts, and talks like a conservative, so probably it makes sense to regard him as one.

Finally, the day is long gone when anyone could simply read someone out of the conservative movement. Buckley and the "National Review" guys could do this back in the 1950s and early 1960s, but that ship has sailed. Nowadays free marketers, old fashioned American racists, anti-Semites, conspiracy nuts, business conservatives, theocrats, and much, much more jostle each other among the ranks of conservatives. Conservatives truly practice diversity!

Lestat

"We've played that game on other threads and you've thoroughly tired it out by now. YOU'RE A LIBERTARIAN. That's fine, just don't claim to be a better conservative than me.

Stop wasting our time. Create a libertarian site where you can congregate and talk about what bad conservatives those THers are.

Goodbye."

----------------------

Well Lestat, obviously we haven't resolved the issue, because you keep stating falsehoods about Dr. Paul. Furthermore, you keep calling me a libertarian, when in fact I've been a registered Republican since my very first vote. I was a child during Goldwater's bid for President; my mother was a delegate; and I can't begin to tell you how many doors she had me knock on to pass out literature for his campaign. ;-)

What I find concerning is that it appears that so many Republicans today seem to have forgotten their conservative roots. Not a surprise really, when one hears the nightly propaganda on television and radio, constantly telling you that what's blue is red, what's up is down, etc. But, if we all remember what the word "conservative" used to mean, well, it doesn't quite equate to what we're seeing in action today. Does it?

Under this article, you claimed that Ron Paul was not a conservative. Seems to me that if you're going to offer such a claim that you should be asked to back it up. See Lestat, this is my confusion.... Dr. Paul has a 100% conservative voting record and is a staunch defender of our Constitution. So either state why you don't believe him to be a conservative, or please list what you believe to be conservative principles. Here, I'll start:

- limited constitutional government
- personal privacy
- personal responsibility
- strong national defense
- fiscally responsible government
- individual liberty

Lestat, don't take your marbles and run off. Let's talk about this and attempt to resolve this once and for all. What's your take on conservative principles?

Great example of why Ron Paul is THE MAN

Bad faith?
"Let's not stoop to answer bad-faith articles or bad faith commentators like The Left is Evil just above. Instead let's concentrate on what is really wrong here: TH's editorial selections."

There was nothing "bad faith" about my post. I used a direct quote from Ron Paul in that presidential debate. He said what he said, and apparently never retracted it. He meant it. And I meant what I said.

Libertarians inherited an anti-American pacifist streak from the Evil Leftists that helped disappointed conservatives form the Libertarian Party in the early Seventies. If you don't believe me, check any good history book or site on Libertarian ideology.

Check my next post on Harry Browne

What Has 'Victory' Achieved?
The following was written by Harry Browne, the late libertarian leader and Libertarian Party nominee for the Presidency. If you didn't believe me when I said the hard-core libertarians were anti-American, read this.

Libertarians even opposed us nailing the Taliban in Afghanistan!!! After September 11th!!!! After hiding Osama!!!!! Apparently they thought we could beat the Taliban, who owned Afghanistan at the time, by cuffing and booking 'em downtown, Danno:


On September 11, foreign terrorists killed several thousand people by destroying the World Trade Center and damaging the Pentagon.

Some people considered this a criminal act – not an act of war by a foreign nation. They said the U.S. government should concentrate on finding, capturing, and bringing to trial anyone connected with the attacks.

The people who wanted war said this approach was laughable. They demanded that the doves lay out a fool-proof plan that would guarantee the capture of Osama bin Laden and anyone else involved in the attacks.

Of course, no one could do that. And so the warmongers carried the day – and the U.S. went to war against Afghanistan.

What Has Happened?

Now, four months later, what has been achieved?
Many things . . .

1. Afghanistan has been bombed and bombed and bombed, just as many people wanted. The entire village of Kama Ado was wiped out, for example, killing 115 people who had nothing to do with the September 11 attacks. Reporters visited the remains and saw the fragments of U.S. Air Force bombs. Another bombing, at Qalaye Niazi, killed at least 50 civilians – apparently because a local anti-Taliban tribal leader, trying to intimidate local citizens, told the U.S. military that Al-Qaeda forces were there. (For some reason, these events hold little interest for the American news media.)

2. Throughout Afghanistan, thousands of people have died from the U.S. bombing – even though American TV news channels rarely report these deaths. No one has claimed that a single one of the dead people had anything to do with the September 11 attacks. Their guilt lies in not overthrowing the Taliban or in possibly being members of Al-Qaeda – not in any knowledge that they participated in the attacks.

3. Hundreds of thousands of Afghans have fled their homes – trying to get into Pakistan to escape the American bombing. Imagine how you'd feel if you had to leave your home and all your possessions to avoid being killed.

4. Tens of thousands of Afghans are starving to death – in many cases eating grass to stay alive as long as possible. Afghanistan has always been a poor country; now it is a devastated one.

5. Because of the destruction, Afghanistan will have to be rebuilt – at a cost of billions of dollars. And guess who's going to pay for it. That's right – you and I.

6. Tens of millions of people around the world have been added to those who believe the U.S. is a big bully that tyrannizes small countries.

Eggs & Wars

According to the brave warriors, all these tragedies are the necessary collateral damage that occurs in a war. After all, you can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs.
(Did you ever notice that the people who believe this rarely volunteer their own eggs? It's almost always someone else who must suffer the "collateral damage"?)

But where is the omelet?

Despite all the deaths and destruction, the devastation hasn't produced the capture of a single person claimed to be involved in the September 11 attacks. In fact, the only arrest so far of an actual suspect occurred in the United States, not in Afghanistan.

Was the Right Choice Made?

On September 12, America faced two choices:
1. Treat the attacks as a crime, recognizing the possibility that the perpetrators might never be captured.

2. Treat the attacks as war – and rain death and destruction on a backwards, third-world country that was powerless to fight back.
Because choice #1 couldn't guarantee the capture of those responsible for the September 11 attacks, America went to war and decimated another nation. But that choice didn't produce the capture of a single perpetrator.
And so we have nothing to show for all the death and devastation – nothing except the increased hatred of millions more people around the globe.
Retaliation?

We're told the U.S. has simply acted in self-defense. After all, America was attacked.
But what we've seen wasn't retaliation. If you hit me and I hit you back, I'm acting in self-defense. But if you hit me and I respond by hitting your sister, that isn't self-defense – it's aggression against your sister.

The U.S. hasn't retaliated against the people who caused the September 11 attacks. It has attacked an innocent nation and achieved nothing for it.
And if retaliation is the right way, why is President Bush pressuring India and Israel not to retaliate for terrorist acts?

Eliminating Terrorism?

Our government says the war in Afghanistan is wiping out Al-Qaeda, so that there can be no more terrorist acts. But our government also says Al-Qaeda has members in 60 countries around the world. Does that mean there are only 59 more countries to bomb?

So long as we're bombing defenseless countries, there will be widespread resentment against the U.S. – and there will be terrorist acts against us, with or without Al-Qaeda.

Teaching a Lesson?

It is also said that, if nothing else, the bombing of Afghanistan will make would-be future terrorists think twice about attacking us.
But why should the bombing intimidate a terrorist? After all, terrorists don't care when innocent people die. And no evidence has been presented that anyone involved in the September 11 attacks has been killed by the bombings.
Certainly Osama Bin Laden has no reason to feel intimidated by the American response. After all, the September 11 attacks have caused us to spend tens of billions of dollars in warfare and new domestic security procedures, turn our lives upside down, give up portions of the Bill of Rights, and delegate vast new powers to the government. What more could he want?
Freedom for Afghans?

TV news clips show happy Afghans shedding their beards and veils – while providing little or no coverage of the refugee camps and villages where people are starving.

Even if we could be sure that a majority of Afghans – or even all of them – approve of what the U.S. has done, the question remains: is it the responsibility of America to replace all the world's tyrants? If so, when does the bombing of Saudi Arabia or Zimbabwe begin? And is the U.S. going to invade China to supervise its "human rights" activity?

And who could be so naïve as to believe the Northern Alliance is going to rule Afghanistan in a more kindly way than the Taliban did? U.S. troops will no more guarantee a free country than do the U.S. troops in Saudi Arabia. But once the war is over, our government and the press will no longer pay attention to the Afghans.

(The Kosovo Liberation Army – on behalf of which the U.S. bombed Serbia in 1999 – has driven Serbs, Gypsies, Jews, Turks and other non-Albanians out of Kosovo, "ethnically cleansing" the area far more efficiently than Slobodan Milosevic ever did. But how much interest have TV journalists shown in returning to Kosovo to see what the U.S. intervention achieved?)

Revenge?

Lastly, has the bombing of Afghanistan at least given people the feeling they've avenged the Americans who died on September 11?
No. Revenge can be achieved only by hurting those who have hurt you – not by killing innocent bystanders.

The U.S. war on Afghanistan has produced nothing but misery.

I don't know about you, but I feel no pride in knowing my government has slaughtered a lot of innocent people in my name.

What to Do

We will end the terrorist threats to America only when America changes its foreign policy.
Our President must assure the world that he's repudiating the foreign policy of his predecessors – which rained bombs on countries like Serbia, Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan, and the Sudan – and has propped up tyrannical dictators in countries like Iran, Indonesia, Vietnam, and Saudi Arabia – and invaded countries like Iraq, Nicaragua, Somalia, and Lebanon.

When America becomes a friend to the world, rather than a dictator, evil people will no longer be able to rally the support they need to commit evil acts against us.

When America is no longer a threat to the world, the world will no longer threaten us.


The last Hate America Evil Leftist sentence says it all. Ron Paul is a Harry Browne clone. Don't vote for Ron Paul and don't support him. If you think I made this up, check this URL:

http://www.antiwar.com/orig/browne.php?articleid=8651

Why the terrorists hate us
The terrorists hate us because of our involvement in the Middle East. They don't hate us for our freedoms or any mumbo jumbo like that and you know it.

That being said, if our involvment in the Mideast was important to the lives and security of the US, then by all means we should be over there, even if it inflames terrorists.

But we don't need to be involved (at least militarily) in the Mideast. It's not important to US security, provided that we have strong borders, coasts, missile defense, etc., all of which Ron Paul supports. So let's do it this way instead.

TheLeftisEvil
Are you implying that it is not wise to understand the motivations of your enemy? Is that what you're saying? And here I always thought that was WAR101 in determining how to best defeat your enemy.

You have already been shown that Dr. Paul's statements that our foreign policy over the last 50 years have led to anti-Americanism, are totally substantiated by CIA intelligence and many others. Yet, you persist. Why is that? Do you not believe our own CIA intelligence? How about the 911 Commission report? Are you saying that is a lie? Please clarify.

You seem to equate Dr. Paul's stance that our current interventionist foreign policy is actually hurting our national defense, rather than increasing it, as pacifism. Actually, Dr. Paul thought we should have stayed focused on pursuing bin Laden and his merry band of Al Qaeda henchmen, instead of taking a U-TURN and invading a country where Al Qaeda was not.

Let's look at what Dr. Paul suggested we do, way back in 2001. http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec2001/cr101001.htm

"Specifically, my legislation authorizes the President to issue letters of marque and reprisal to all appropriate parties to capture Osama bin Laden and other members of al Qaeda or any other persons involved in the September 11 terrorist attacks. The President is also authorized to use part of the $40 billion appropriated by this Congress to respond to the attack, to establish a bounty for the capture of Osama bin Laden. My legislation singles out Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda because the information available to Congress and the American people indicates bin Laden and his organization were responsible for this action. By vesting authority in the President to issue the letters, my legislation ensures that letters of marque and reprisal can be coordinated with the administration's overall strategy to bring the perpetrators of this outrageous act to justice.

Letters of marque and reprisal resolve one of the most vexing problems facing the country: how do we obtain retribution against the perpetrators of the attacks without inflicting massive damage on the Middle East which could drive moderate Arabs into an allegiance with bin Laden and other terrorists. This is because using letters of marque and reprisal shows the people of the region that we are serious when we say our quarrel is not with them but with Osama bin Laden and all others who would dare commit terrorist acts against the United States.

Mr, Speaker, I ask that my colleagues join with me in providing the additional ``necessary weapon of war'' and to help defend our fellow citizens, our sovereign nation, and our liberty by cosponsoring the September 11 Marque and Reprisal Act of 2001 and the Air Piracy Reprisal and Capture Act of 2001."
++++++

He also reiterates it in an interview with Wolf Blitzer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sy4Eugc0Xls

BLITZER: We're almost out of time, Congressman, but if you were President, what would you do about the Al-Qaeda threat? Forget about Iraq right now. The Al-Qaeda threat, Osama bin Laden, he's still on the loose, what would you do about that threat to the United States?

PAUL: Well, I'd go after him. I voted for the authority, I wish they had done it. We voted for the money, and yet we ignored it. So this is my complaint, that we didn't do what we were supposed to do, and we went and started a war that we shouldn't have. And here we have Osama bin Laden, in Pakistan, they have a nuclear weapon, they have a military dictatorship, they overthrew an elected government, and what do we do when they get nuclear weapons, not following the NPT treaty? We reward them. We give them money. So I'm saying, don't reward people who get nuclear weapons, and then they'll want to get them. That's why Saddam Hussein pretended he had one, because he thought if he had one maybe we'd leave him alone. So it's natural for people like Iran, the leadership in Iran, to want to get a nuclear weapon, because we respect people that have power, and we disrespect people that we think we can run over them and run roughshod over their countries, invade them preemptively, and change their regime. I think it's a bad foreign policy: it's not Republican, it's not conservative, and it's not Constitutional.

-----------

So, the choice is up to you. You can go read and truly understand what Dr. Paul believes in, or you can hang onto the notion that you already know from a 1 minute statement during a debate. Dr. Paul is one of the most prolific public servants in D.C.. It's very easy to discover his stance on any number of issues. The choice is yours.

http://www.ronpaullibrary.org/index.php
http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul-arch.html
http://www.ronpaulaudio.com/
http://www.ronpaul2008.com/



TheLeftIsEvil
Your point is well taken. You believe that Ron Paul and Harry Browne are the same person. Is that why Paul voted to go into Afghanistan?




A Little Reality Check
As amusing as it is to banter with Ron Paul's acolytes, they don't seem to understand that they are functionally a fringe group. They can participate in the debate and give their candidate a chance to improve his position, only if they act like adults and seriously discuss the issues, Paul's position (documented and promised) on the key platform points, and accept the reality that they are not driving the campaign's focus.

I do not, for example, find Giuliani all that desirable as a candidate, but I am realistic enough to accept that he is the front-runner. In that light, I discuss Giuliani's record and promises with respect for his position and the knowledge that if I want my guy to win, I need to bring them around, not attack them. To put it bluntly, the Ron Paul guys are not essential for the GOP to win, but the support of the majority IS essential.

Up to now, neither Paul nor his supporters have dmeonstrated a sense that they understand or acknowledge their position.

TheLeftisEvil
Dr. Paul is a 10 term REPUBLICAN Congressman. What else does he need to do to convince you of that?

He has a 100% conservative voting record and is a staunch defender of the Constitution.

He's WAY more conservative than those who keep claiming that he's in the wrong party. LOL

Perhaps the real issue is that he's a traditional conservative and not an ex-Trotskyite neoconservative. Yes, perhaps that is the real issue.

Anowrast says and I answer
Anowrast says in quotes and I answer not in quotes:

"Wow. We defeated Iraq, did we?"

Yup. It took us three weeks to take down Saddam and his Evil regime in the greatest tank and armored carrier assault in the history of warfare. Rommel would've been impressed.


"Is that why the death toll is increasing, insurgent activity is increasing, we're continuing to lose troops over there, and all while costing us 10-20 Billion a month? I must say, your analysis of the situation is quite god at ignoring all the facts."

The insurgents were not the Iraqi regime. Two different things. Just think of Iraq as flypaper for terrorists. Thousands of terrorists killed by our brave American soldiers. A good beginning.


"We did enforce the ceasefire with fly overs, a UN imposed half-assed weak POS ceasefire. If you want America enforcing the edict of the UN, you are obviously an America hater."

We were just trying to be nice guys and not "unilateralists." Did you catch how Al Gore bitterly complained about us NOT taking out Saddam in a speech made in 1992? Check Youtube. Apparently he was channeling the spirit of George W. in 2003.


"I guess having American troops in 134 different countries around the world is protecting us, I mean, when American troops were in a 120 different countries around the world in 2001, they did a great job of defending us then. Let's spread them a little thinner!"

We're never gonna let the Evil tyrants get away with it like we did after WWI. No more appeasement. No more isolationism. No more Mr. Nice Guy. Another poster complained about a claim that American withdrawal from the world led directly to WWII. It certainly was one of the many causes. If you back away from tyrants and appease and appease and appease, you get a world war.

If this means we're the world's empire, well so be it. The world is a big, bad neighborhood that does need a big, bad cop on the beat. Just think what world trade would be like without the American Navy patrolling the sea lanes and keeping the riffraff down.

"Our conventional military prowess is worthless against deterring terrorists. Utterly worthless."

George W. himself called this "a new kind of war." What do the bureaucrats do? Sabotage Rumsfeld, who knew WWII military strategy and tactics wouldn't work against terrorism. Ultimately, it will be Special Forces and high tech military equipment that will do the job.

DJ Drummond
When did believing in the Constitution, become "fringe"? If this is what the conservative movement has become, or America for that matter, our country is way beyond just in trouble.

You seem to imply that the important thing is just for the GOP to "win". Regardless, of the principles of the people who are currently polling at the top. Surely you must see that these people are not conservatives at all. If anyone merited a move to the Democratic party, it is these folks, as their principles differ very little. I submit that a GOP "win" with someone who espouses socialistic ideology is no win at all.

After giving it some thought, I rather like your label of "fringe". I also recall another group of people who were labeled as such. They are referred to now as our Founding Fathers.

One thing's for sure, Hawkins,
if you wanted to get them all together enmass, you did it. This has been one of the more humorous discussions on TH lately.

Hey Liberty, good to read you again. Say hello to Sancho Panza Bartlett for me.

Chopper John
I'm glad to see that you think the future of our country is so humorous, John. Please excuse me if I don't join in with your laughter.

This post by Mr. Morrow above, is worth repeating:

"USA is under attack
It sure is. And it is not just by the headchoppers. USA national sovereignty is under attack by folks like Bush, Clinton, Soros, Kennedy, Guiliani, Romney, McCain, US Chamber of Commerce, La Raza, Mecha, LULAC, MALDEF, Harry Reid, Mitch McConnell, Trent Lott, Barbara Boxer.

The attackers are Open Borders, the UN, the North American Union, the SPP signed by Bush, NAFTA, CAFTA, International Criminal Court, Law of Seas Treaty. By the way NONE of these are democratically backed organizations.

Folks, either get in the fight against these anti-American organizations or get ready to lose the USA and many of the rights and freedoms under our Constitution that you (not me!!) take for granted."