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Thursday, February 08, 2007
John Hawkins :: Townhall.com Columnist
Liberals Vs. The Troops
by John Hawkins
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Want to make a liberal get so mad that he can't see straight? Well then, just tell him that he doesn't support the troops and wait for ranting and a stream of obscenities to begin. But, the truth is, despite their politically motivated protestations to the contrary, the majority of liberals genuinely do not like or support our troops. They view them as dumb, brainwashed, sadistic Bushbots who only deserve support if they're trashing the war, trashing Bush, or if they're deserters like Ehren Watada.

This isn't something that's tough to figure out, nor is it a big secret: liberal contempt for the military keeps bubbling out again and again, over and over. For example, here are a few quotes that may ring a bell for you:

"...This NBC report is just an ugly reminder of the price we pay for a mercenary - oops sorry, volunteer - force that thinks it is doing the dirty work." -- Liberal Washington Post blogger, William Arkin

"One of the losers in the weekend oratorical marathon was retired Gen. Wesley Clark, who repeatedly invoked the West Point motto of "Duty, Honor, Country," forgetting that few in this particular audience (at the Democratic National Committee) have much experience with, or sympathy for, the military." -- Liberal columnist David Broder

"American fighters of the Pacific War were not heroes. The desperation of island combat included exchanged barbarities of which no one would willingly speak for a generation. On the American side, there were foul racism, vengeful refusals to take prisoners, a generalized brutality that extended to a savage air war." -- James Carroll in the Boston Globe

"For those of you who do, as a matter of principle, oppose war in any form, the idea of supporting a conscientious objector who's already been inducted [and] in his combat service in Iraq might have a certain appeal. But let me ask you this: Would you render the same support to someone who hadn't conscientiously objected, but rather instead rolled a grenade under their line officer in order to neutralize the combat capacity of their unit?"

Later, in a question-and-answer period, Churchill was asked whether the trauma "fragging" inflicts on that officer's family back home should be considered, he responded: "How do you feel about Adolf Eichmann's family?" – From Ward Churchill

"Real freedom will come when [U.S.] soldiers in Iraq turn their guns on their superiors." -- Warren County Community College adjunct English professor, John Daly

"In Vietnam, our soldiers came back and they were reviled as baby killers, in shame and humiliation. It isn't happening now, but I will tell you, there has never been an [American] army as violent and murderous as our army has been in Iraq." -- Seymour Hersh

"You know, education, if you make the most of it, if you study hard and you do your homework, and you make an effort to be smart, uh, you, you can do well. If you don't, you get stuck in Iraq." -- John Kerry, in what he later claimed was a botched joke.

"There is, Hugh, I agree with you, a deep anti-military bias in the media. One that begins from the premise that the military must be lying, and that American projection of power around the world must be wrong. I think that is a hangover from Vietnam, and I think it's very dangerous. That's different from the media doing its job of challenging the exercise of power without fear or favor." -- Liberal ABC reporter, Terry Moran

"Do our government's poorly paid contract killers deserve our 'support' for blindly following orders?" -- Ted Rall

"If a young fella has an option of having a decent career or joining the army to fight in Iraq, you can bet your life that he would not be in Iraq." -- Charles Rangel

These quotes? They're not unique expressions of the left's contempt for our troops that are putting themselves in harm's way. If you don't believe that, look at anti-war protests where they carry signs that say things like, "Long Live Iraqi Resistance" and "We support our troops when they shoot their officers." Look at popular liberal forums like the Democratic Underground, where libs refer to our troops as "Cannon fodder and killers doing what they're told to do," and say that they're "deeply ashamed of them." Look at the liberal groups like Not in Our Name where they run a "Stop The Military Recruiters Campaign" or UC Santa Cruz, where left wing thugs brag about "booting military recruiters off campus." You can even look to the liberal Mecca of San Francisco, where the The Board of Education voted to end the JROTC program and in a direct slap at the military, "refused to allow the retired USS Iowa, a historic World War II battleship, to be docked in the Port of San Francisco."

There is an extreme, pervasive dislike of the military amongst the majority of liberals in this country. It influences everything from the mainstream media's obsessive focus on Abu Ghraib, which was covered so extensively in part because they hoped to tar the average soldier by association to the left's wish to surrender in Iraq -- which is driven partly by their desire to humiliate the troops in the field and render their sacrifices meaningless.

Today, liberals may be politically savvy enough not to spit on troops returning home as they did during Vietnam, but the loathing and contempt for our troops present in that gesture are still there, behind the libs implausibly claiming to "support the troops, but not the mission" through gritted teeth.

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John Hawkins is a professional blogger who runs Right Wing News, Linkiest, and Viral Footage.
 
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Fight the Enemy: Saudis, Al Qaeda
Al-Qaida-tied rebels claim hit on copter
AP, February 7, 2007

AL-QAIDA-LINKED SUNNI INSURGENTS claimed responsibility Wednesday for the downing of a U.S. military helicopter northwest of Baghdad. The claim was issued in an Internet statement signed by the Islamic State in Iraq, an umbrella group of several Sunni insurgent groups, including al-Qaida in Iraq. The authenticity of the statement -- posted on a Web forum where the group often issues statements -- could not be independently confirmed.

The U.S. military said a CH-46 Sea Knight helicopter went down about 20 miles northwest of the capital. An Iraqi air force officer said it was downed by an ANTI-AIRCRAFT MISSILE. The U.S. military did not give the cause of the crash or comment on casualties, though one U.S. military official said there were reportedly fewer than 10 people on board.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/world/4533330.html

-----------------

Texas Guard flier died in Black Hawk crash
by Sig Christenson
San Antonio Express-News, January 24, 2007

A Texas National Guard member was among a dozen soldiers killed last weekend when the UH-60 Black Hawk he was piloting went down outside Baghdad, Iraq. Military officials in Washington and Baghdad said little about the incident. But the wife of the pilot, Capt. Sean Edward Lyerly, and retired Army Gen. Barry R. McCaffrey said Wednesday night that hostile fire brought down the copter. McCaffrey said Iraq sources told him an expended SHOULDER-FIRED MISSILE LAUNCHER was found after the attack...

The Russian SA-7B "Strela," was introduced in 1966 and flies up to 12,500 feet, said John Pike, director and founder of globalsecurity.org, a military information online site. U.S. countermeasures, he said, usually misdirect the SA-7 before reaching its target.

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2006/12/07/africa/
ME_GEN_Iraq_Insurgency_Saudi.php?page=2

-----------------

Officials say SAUDIS major provider of finance to Iraqi Sunni insurgents
AP, December 7, 2006

On Nov. 27, a U.S. Air Force F-16 jet crashed while supporting American soldiers fighting in the Sunni insurgent hotbed Anbar province. The U.S. military said it had no information about the cause and Gen. William Caldwell, a U.S. military spokesman, said he would be surprised if the jet was shot down because F-16's have not encountered weapons capable of taking them down in Iraq.

But last week, a spokesman for Sunni insurgents from Saddam's ousted Baath Party claimed that fighters armed with a STRELA MISSILE had shot down the jet.

"We have stockpiles of Strelas and we are going to surprise them (the Americans)," Khudair al-Murshidi, the spokesman, told the AP in Damascus, Syria.

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2006/12/07/africa/ME_GEN_Iraq_Insurgency_Saudi.php

-----------------

The Roving Eye
by Pepe Escobar
Asia Times, December 14, 2006

Although the House of Saud's Interior Ministry will deny it, the Iraq Study Group (ISG) had to admit that SUNNI Arab guerrillas are being financed by wealthy, private SAUDIS -- to the tune of tens of millions of dollars -- and, to a lesser extent, Gulf state donors, following instructions of powerful Wahhabi clerics...

The guerrillas' Russian STRELA ANTI-AIRCRAFT MISSILES in Iraq have been paid for by Saudi money (according to Khudair al-Murshidi, a Ba'athist spokesman based in Damascus, "We have stockpiles of Strelas.")

http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/oil/2006/1214rovingeye.htm

President Bush being Used by Killers
All Iraq's neighbours 'are fuelling conflict'
by Guy Dinmore
The Financial Times (UK), February, 8, 2007

While the US is focusing public attention on Iran with accusations of its destabilising role in Iraq, analysts in Washington warn that all Iraq's neighbours are becoming more deeply involved in covert activities that fuel the sectarian conflict.

Funds and weapons originating in SAUDI ARABIA are still reaching SUNNI groups and AL-QAEDA, sometimes routed through Syria. Meanwhile, Turkey is becoming more active in north Iraq as it prepares to help the Turkmen minority in a looming confrontation over the future of the Kurdish-claimed, oil-rich city of Kirkuk.

The Bush administration, however, wants the spotlight focused on Iran and not on its allies in the region. The Sunni-dominated Gulf Arab states are being pushed by Washington to form a broad anti-Iranian alliance with the US, even -- as former officials point out -- at the risk of provoking a wider Sunni-Shia conflict in the Islamic world.

http://www.kurdishaspect.com/doc0208GD.html

Sick
Keep writing articles like this and there won't be a Republican left to run in the 2008 campaign. I hope that voters won't associate Republicans with conservatives indefinitely. Asserting that any American hopes for the death and defeat of our soldiers is a tactless rant with no foundation.
Republican rhetoric continues to violate constructive, civil debate. Childish rants like these belittle all conservatives by association. As a Libertarian, watching from the sidelines, it won't be soon enough before pundits who think like this are flushed out of the Republican Party.

This is the truist column EVER on TH
Bravo Mr. Hawkins! You have a fan for life in me.

America is a nation of freedom loving people.

That freedom would not exist but for the blood of patriots spilled,from our beginning until today.

The current mainstream and leadership of the American left hates the military.

If you want America to continue in its current state of strength or hopefully better,you simply cannot let these people have control of the military. The America they envision,the one they would love,does NOT have a superiority over all who would destroy us.To them,we're just a bunch of bullies who need to be reined in.Witness: Kiyoto,"Star Wars",using the tax code to punish the successful,their anger at Reagan for kidding about the "Bombing starts in 5 minutes",multiculturalism,their insistence that islam is a religion of peace and a general overall policy of "leveling the playing field" by lowering everyone to the same miserable mediocrity, ala communism.

Thanks again Mr. Hawkins. Brilliant,simply brilliant!

Mark
>Asserting that any American hopes for the death and defeat of our soldiers is a tactless rant with no foundation

ok.. you just declared yourself incapable of sentient thought.

next.

Who is this yo yo?
I do not support the military beyond what is taken from my taxes to pay them. For their pay, I expect them to kick butt and take names. They are self described professionals and I expect them to live up to their advertisement.

If they need additional support beyond the pay they have already accepted, they need to see the platoon sergeant for a t.s. chit and go talk to the chaplain. Do the job you volunteered for and quit whining about support.

Mr. Hawkins must have been up against a dead line with no thought on how to fill it. After two paragraphs of maybe original thought, he cuts and pastes for inflammatory effect. His appeal to emotion sounds more liberal than conservative.


Wow "bloody hl"
The truth really DOES hurt...doesen't it ?

I love watching you guys fry.That's it,stew in it.Stew and simmer.Bring to a boil.When your head explodes,reduce heat(emoting) and repeat.

Bravo Mr. Hawkins!
You tell it like it is! Thanks from this vet! Man I wish I could have had every one of these S.O.B.'s you mention, plus several of the Liberals posting here. With me in Korea! I could guarantee they would not come back! The ungrateful cowardly basTARDS!

I knew I wasn't crazy...
Left-minded thinkers come OUT!(Like a televangelist might say). You see, there it is in black and white...Famous people, I might add, spewing, giving aid and comfort to the enemy, whether you need a literal translation or not.

I am tired of hearing how Liberals support the troops and not the mission, the President. If so many people say the same thing, it's got to be true, right? That's how you libs are. Say anything long enough and they begin to believe it's true. Sad.

I believe you support the troops,the mission and the President.


I am sure the other vets
on here will agree with me. That there is great irony in serving to "protect the constitution from all enemies foreign and domestic" and having those same domestic enemies serving in the congress and taking the same oath.

We put our butts on the line and they work theirs off to undermine the very mission we get sent on. Then they run for office by appealing to liberals on their "war record".

Liberalism is a mental illness.


Yes, YES, and YEEESSSSSS!!
Way to go, Hawkins!! Cheers to you!!

Note the poor, whining libtards already posting up here. They're whining as if you had simply written your own opinions with NO support of facts.

SO -- you've done a magnificent job of presenting overwhelming facts by quoting their own kind again and again. WELL DONE!!!

IF you hadn't supported your opinions with these leftist quotations, they'd have attacked you for that, no question. PROOF -- you couldn't win here in their eyes. Who cares? Big deal!

EXCELLENT!!! Wish I'd done it.

I'm with 2spothipshot -- STEW IN IT, LIBBIES!!!!!!!!

"I (state your name)
do swear that I will uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic, and that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same. I swear that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me in accordance to regulations and the Uniformed Code of Military Justice. So help me, God."

That's the oath that I took. Obviously, it wasn't written by a liberal, because it supports the Constitution, has obedience to orders, and mentions God in a positive manner. Since it is so opposed to the liberal way, is there any real surprise that liberals hate the military so much?

I really do find it funny that the libs posting so far on this track are so utterly clueless.

WHO are they railing against??
Note who the leftists who are posting here are whining and railing against.

Is it all the leftist journalists and bloggers whom Hawkins quoted here? In other words, the very folks whom these lefties (apparently) claim do NOT speak for them??

NO!!! Of course not!! That would make WAY too much sense. No -- instead, they go after Hawkins here, who has done nothing more than funnel all this leftist spewing right out into the open for all to see.

I dunno -- seems to me that if someone brought out a bunch of quotes from conservatives that I definitely disagreed with, I'd be ashamed. I might even speak out against those conservatives with whom I disagreed. But attack the one who merely brought it to light?? I'm not an idiot, so, no, I wouldn't do that.

Once again, folks, prime differences between us and them plainly displayed.

Whine Whine Whine do your stuff
I am siitting here in my chair with a laptop in my lap and as soon as I called up this column the 400 Hz whine came out of the screen even with the sound turned off. I'll have to talk to my wife about her laptop emitting this liberal whine.

Want to make a conservative mad?
Ask about WMDs and ties between 9/11 and Al Qaeda.

Look at the quotes one by one, as Jabelson writes. They either are bogus or are written by outsider nutballs, not unlike the ones who write here to say we should kill all Palestinians or all Sunnis or nuke the enemy country du jour (Venezuela, Iran, Syria, France, ...).

They doth protest too much.
Amusing how the kooky commies posting on this board feel so compelled to scream "NUH UH!!!"

And Jabelson, you obviously don't know what you're talking about. As was reported on a while ago, the US military ranks contain people from all walks of life. The military is more educated that those not in the military, with over 90% of them being high school graduates (whereas only about 75% of the public as a while are high school grads). In fact, it turns out that those from the higher income areas are OVER represented in the military.

So no. Unless you choose to ignore demonstrable facts, rational people DON'T believe military-hater Rangel's view that the military is just a bunch of stupid, poor buffoons.

Next, John Kerry has a 30 year history of spewing his hatred of the military. If his "botched joke" were a unique example, then maybe you'd have a point. Unfortunately, that was FAR from unique.

Finally, the left themselves has admitted David Broder and Ted Rall speak for them. You don't have to strain yourself too hard to find gushing reviews of them by fellow kooky commies. Google them for yourself.

The right doesn't have to "guess" the motives of the left. The left opnely proclaims their motivations on a daily basis, so no guessing is required.

How to make a libstooge mad?
Post facts.

"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line." President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process." Nancy Pelosi Dec 16, 1998

More liberal "useful idiots" quotes on WMDs and Saddam here:

http://noliberalspin.townhall.com/g/2bbe1aac-2d5a-476c-b544-f57594c74768?comments=true

Iraqi connection to 9-11.

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=13323

Stand by for LGM's "Screaming Monkey Syndrome" attack.

Un-friggin-real
Just when I think liberals have reached the limits of idiotic statements....

Let me see if have this straight; according to several moonbats here, by pointing out that many leftwing loonies are anti-military, anti-defense and ashamed of their history, Republicans are helping to ensure their defeat in the 2008 election!?!

Wow, the terms “wishful thinking” and “twisted logic” have been elevated to new heights.

I guess if Republicans want to win we should start lying and talk about how liberals are such patriotic and proud Americans – that’ll do it.

Word of advice...it really hampers your future arguments when you repeatedly demonstrate that you have absolutely no credibility, commonsense, or ability to comprehend simple information.

More divide and conquer
We have allowed our country to fall into soft communism. We have allowed almost every plank of the Communist Manifesto to be enacted here in America. This happened by the actions of like-minded individuals from both major parties. All while a lot of us slept and kept supporting our "party" of choice, not looking at what was really happening.

Look for yourself:

http://tinyurl.com/3am8tx

Hawkins provides the evidence...
but we have always known it is true.

Liberal thinking is uniquely anti-logical in this regard.

They "support the troops but not the mission".

They support the UAW but hate cars.

They support the working poor but oppose WalMart, which provides the working poor with jobs and inexpensive products.

They support energy independence but oppose the use of coal, oil, natural gas, or nuclear reactors to produce it. And under Clinton they initiated the program "Rivers run wild" to decommission hydro-electric plants as well.

They support the abortion of innocent, defenseless fetuses by the millions but oppose the death penalty for convicted murderers.

They support illegal immigration but oppose the loss of jobs for native citizens.

They support big government but oppose the loss of individual freedoms.

They support punitive damages but decry the ensuing rise in the cost of health care.

They support the confiscation of corporate profits in the form of taxation but complain bitterly when a company goes bankrupt and the 401K's of its employees become worthless.

To be a liberal is to oppose everything you think you are supporting. Why should the military be an exception?

Republican "support" for troops
Republicans talk about supporting troops, but they don't do it. The new Bush budget proposal cuts VA funds that go towards treating wounded soldiers. They have skimped on funds for body armor.

In Abu Graib, the Republican spin machine wants to blame the troops, while liberals want to blame the civilians controling the armed forces.

Gunny demonstrates that you can't make a conservative angry if said conservative refuses to read. He quotes Bill Clinton in 1998 saying Saddam had WMDs. We have no reason to doubt that. By 2002 those WMDs has been abandoned or distroyed. All inspectors saw that before the invasion and it was confirmed by massive searching afterwards.

WAR WITH IRAN – BRING IT ON!!!
It's time for more troops in harm's way thanks to our chicken-hawk President and the vast majority of chicken-hawk conservatives.

GOOD NEWS too... God has spoken directly to George Bush (again) and told him to go to war with Iran after the November 2006 elections. This new war should go as well as the Iraq war (our President’s last consultation with “another Father, a higher authority” than Bush41) and further help over one billion Muslims in their decision to fight America in a mutual holy war. When the President finally increases the level of hatred against the United States to where it engulfs Pakistan, then we face nuclear terror, and Biblical Armageddon becomes real and a self-fulfilling prophecy. Oh, the joy, the Rapture!

Right now roiled Pakistan is just one assassin’s bullet away from going under, and still recruitment for jihad is in its infancy. The Crusades of long ago are living history in the Middle East. When the Crusaders captured Jerusalem in 1099, they slaughtered all its inhabitants. When the Arab leader Saladin recaptured the city, he spared all the Christian inhabitants. So the Middle East is already primed for another war with Christian invaders; and our “bring it on” cowboy President is only rekindling and fueling this centuries-old fire.

Our brave, innocent young men and women in Iraq and Afghanistan are fighting for a better world, but a leader ignorant of history and cultures can easily cause the opposite. The stupidity of World War I and of Wilson, Lloyd George and Clemenceau caused terrible consequences for another 70 years after the end of that war, including Hilter and Communism. Afghanistan is the right war, certainly a just war and the whole world agreed and was on our side, and if we would have concentrated our efforts there we probably would have wiped out Bin Laden and those responsible for 9-11 by now. Iraq is a total disaster, and Iran will be even worse. Let’s face it, all George Bush knows is how to start wars!

AMERICAN DIPLOMACY… now there’s an oxymoron! The leader of Iran comes off as a whacko, however, the Iranians and the entire rest of the world view George Bush in the same way, so there is a common starting point. Real diplomacy involves talking with your adversary one-on-one without preconditions, and there’s a lot to discuss with Iran: the CIA in the 1950s, the Shah, the 1979 hostage crisis, sponsorship of terror, Israel and justice in the Middle East, and nuclear issues. But if past is prelude, Bush’s diplomacy with Iran will be perfunctory and rigged - this time, our mentally unbalanced, messianic President needs to provoke a war, AND HE WILL FIND A WAY!

Historical footnote: Thank Providence George Bush was not President during the Cuban Missile Crisis.

Speaking Truth to Power
Isn't it ironic, don't you think?

When the lefties are in power, they can't handle the truth. Of course, I'm not saying they were all that good at handling the truth before they came to power...

wiseone
Nice post...if liberals actually read and think about your comments their head may explode.

Too bad most of them will just stick their fingers in their ears and do the little kid move..."blah, blah, I can't hear you, pbftttt."

Seawolf:
"I am sure the other vets
on here will agree with me. That there is great irony in serving to "protect the constitution from all enemies foreign and domestic" and having those same domestic enemies serving in the congress and taking the same oath."

This vet doesn't agree with you at all. I'd rather have a politician who comes out honestly against the war than one who foolishly gets us involved in an unnecessary one.


wiseone proves his name
Love your thinking.

Excellent points, every one.

Refutation from the left on them will be empty fluff.

Liberalgoodman
Why would asking a conservative about WMD or Saddam's connection to 9/11 make him/her mad? And what does that have to do with the undeniable fact that much of the Left despises the military?

Regarding WMD, the answer to your question is that they are in Syria. Either that or Saddam secretly destroyed them, then barred inspectors so he could remain under sanctions. But they did exist. And while we're on the subject, perhaps you can tell us how Bush the Moron concocted a scheme that fooled not only the Democrats, but all of the world's intelligence agencies and the UN? Or how about his best trick--manipulating the Clinton administration to "lie" about the weapons while he was still Governor of TX?

Regarding Saddam's operational connection with 9/11, there was none and no Republican ever claimed that there was. However, there were deep ties between Al Qaeda and Saddam, including funding, training and sheltering fugitives. This has all been documented by the Duelfer report and the 9/11 commission.

Regarding Hawkins quoting liberal bloggers-- OK, you have a point that this is not a fair representation of mainstream liberal thought in and of itself. However, there is ample evidence and quotes from Dem politicians and Dem (oops, I mean MSM) journalists and broadcasters to back his claim. Also, the preponderance of liberal bloggers and protesters who hate the military does suggest a general attitude of the Left. Similarly, one could reasonably extrapolate from the examples you gave that beyond the extreme rhetoric, the Right is distrustful of Muslims, hates Iran and dislikes France without going too far out on a limb.

Gregdn
If your "honest politician" who's against the war is also in favor of us pulling out of there right now, consequences be dam*ed, then he's also an idiot.

JohnCitizen
Actually, the Cuban Missile Crisis was a crisis by JFK's own doing.

Let's not mention his "victory" over the USSR and Cuba that had us removing our missiles from Turkey AND getting a promise from the USA NOT to invade Cuba.

I surmise that if BUSH was the POTUS then, Fidel would be rolling a box of my La Gloria Cubana's right about now.

My personal favorite is the Cuban Embrago that has done more to hurt the cuban PEOPLE than Fidel but then again, that's always how it is with liberals right.

THEY enact the Social Security Ponzi Scam that returns a WHOPPING 1-2% on your forcibly seized money and they are exempt from it until 1983. They make BIG MONEY on their investments but force Americans to live on dribs and drabs from SS. Nice.

Seawolf
This vet completely agrees with you. I'd rather have a politician who isn't afraid to do the right thing than one who foolishly takes any postition in order to stay in power.

Lgman
You are not using reality when you say those quotes are bogus...They are facts!!! Thay have been said and are documented...Go ahead,do a google search.

Poor Left can't seem to bring back...
the hatred of the military, but not for lack of trying.

It has been gratifying to watch the Left try to reprise their glory days of Vietnam, only to find that they're not universally adored for denigrating our troops.

When John Kerry lied about the atrocities our troops were committing in Vietnam, he was met with widespread acclaim by the anti-war, anti-military Left. When he tried to expose the atrocities currently practiced by our military, e.g., the terrorizing of "women, children...and kids" in the dead of night, he was met with [sound of crickets].

So they're left with denigrating the present president and his "bungling" of this war.

And JohnCitizen even praises the president who didn't start a war with the Cuban Missile Crisis but DID start the much-hated Vietnam War.

BTW, Vietnam never attacked us and never had WMDs. They didn't even want every one of us dead. So why did we bother them? Don't know, but it must have been righteous when Kennedy started it and LBJ excalated it, only to become dead wrong when Nixon was elected and finally ended it (snatching defeat from the jaws of victory).

No one in Bosnia attacked us, either. But Clinton bravely invaded, cheered by the Left. Did they have WMDs, I wonder? Perhaps not, but they didn't have oil, either, so it was righteous, I guess.

What was Clinton's plan when, in 1998, he announced (to the cheers of the Dems) "regime change" in Iraq. And if he couldn't accomplish it before his reign ended, why didn't he pass his plan on to Bush, for goodness sake? Guess he was too busy issuing pardons and his minions were too busy removing the "W's" from government typewriters.

The Left loves criticism--of the Right (which is "freedom of speech")--but suffers from a dearth of CONSTRUCTIVE critism.

wiseone
I hate to pile on, but I loved your post, too.

Perhaps a Leftie can refute each point, showing the existence of a logic we've all missed?

Polly
Icedog and truthspotlight have it right. When confronted with any fact or logic that cannot be disputed with standard talking points from the DNC, democratunderground, MoveOn.org, or Dailykos, the libs either refuse to engage or spew irrationality.

So we shouldn't hold out much hope that any of this will be explained to us.

cons sit in a circle telling myths
to each other and then sit back and act as if it is the truth.
one of the reasons republicans are in the minority in this country is because they believe in these self-perpetuating myths. if everyone agrees with your point of view and it is true why are you out of power.

all your so called "facts" are nothing but the same lame rhetoric you have been using for 20 years and the american public has heard it so often they have stopped listening.

we could go round and round, with both sides giving their version of the facts but the proof is in the halls of congress.

you used every hate filled argument you could in the past elections i.e.
liberals support terrorism
liberals will get you killed
liberals hate the military

well the american public is not buying it anymore, but keeping telling yourselves these 20th century talking points are true and you will continue to lose elections.

Liberals Vs. The Troops
OMG! You fake right-wing lemmings. Because someone with an 'R' behind their name says 'hate liberals' you do so like its gospel. You reveal your ignorance and hatred for American Values and our Beloved Constitution. Each one of you need to go back and take Civics 101 and find out what it means to be an American.

I too took the Oath to defend and uphold the Constituion. Not to defend and uphold Neo-Conservatism. What most of you don't know is Neo-Conservatism is an abberation of Liberalism--check the history. OOPS! Check the history(R). There, I put an 'R' behind history. Now maybe you'll do some research.

I'm a Liberal, I'm an infantryman (11B3O), I don't hate the military. Besides the military is the largest Liberal Organization in the United States. 'Leave no man behind' (Liberal ideal); 'The team is as strong as its weakest link' (Liberal ideal); Free health care (Liberal ideal); Free housing (Liberal ideal); Respect for the law (Liberal ideal); Strong National Defense (Liberal ideal); Honor, Courage, Commitment(Liberal ideals); Service to our country (Liberal ideal).

What you fake Neo-Cons fail to realize is that your leaders never served in the military. Most actively avoided military service. They are cowards. Afraid to serve. Yet they tell you Liberals hate the military. And without critical thinking you take the cup and drink the kool-aid.

What you fake Neo-Cons fail to realize is the war in Iraq has nothing to do with the war on terror. Your leaders say 'fight them over there so we don't have to fight them over here' is akin to using our military (the one that they love) as terrorist bait.

If your leaders loved the military so much more than we Liberals why don't they pick-up a gun and go fight? I'll tell you why. Because they are cowards and rather have their minions do the fighting for them.

To anyone who doesn't believe this...
...Go to the Washington, DC Metro stop at the Pentagon at about 7:00 on any decent Monday morning and look at the signs they hold. My personal favorite is "The military irradiates its troops with depleted uranium."

The extreme American Left don't consider themselves Americans. They think of themselves as "Citizens of the World" who have a responsibility to ensure that our culture does not dominate the more "enlightened" cultures in Europe and Asia (Eason Jordan, Call your office). Markw writes at the very top of this list "Asserting that any American hopes for the death and defeat of our soldiers is a tactless rant with no foundation." Considering the quotes, and the protests that come from the likes of Cindy Sheehan, Michael Moore, Ward "Tonto" Churchill (who has an alarming fixation on Adolph Eichmann), John Kerry, and a great many other leftist, anti-American personalities.

The lot of them are traitors. Unfortunately, no one is going to convict them because the Leftist Media would be screaming about "Free Speech."

That people born in this country and raised under the freedoms that we have here and are defended by our military and have been for 231 years would call for the fragging of officers, the failure of our military efforts, and the condemnation of tactics even in WWII when we were fighting some of the most evil tyrants in history, just makes me sick.

aryling, Wink, and religiouslib
BTW, religiouslib, what religion is that?

Back on topic. First, all of you go back and study above postings. Most of what you spew has already been covered. And covered. And covered.

Cute idea with the military being liberal. Whatever. It's the people who count.

And speaking of COUNTING, why is it that for major federal elections, Democrats always try to cut off counting the absentee ballots from our soldiers overseas?? (You know it happens, we hear about it every time.) I'll tell you why -- because those lefties KNOW what's in those ballots, and it's NOT what's going to be coming from the voting machines in the poor districts that the leftists fight so hard to be sure ARE counted. So much for a liberal military.

Polly...
I owe you a sincere apology for batching you with Monkeys Kimberly and Betty...I re-read the post that incensed me and it was Betty. I am sorry...I see your posts are not screaming monkey tirades...

Seawolf
This vets with you

10 people = libs?
I thought there were more than 10 libs in America..guess not this guy's right on.

Nothing "phony" about it
The left in this country wants us to lose in Iraq because they cannot campaign for control of the federal government in 2008 with a US victory in Iraq established. Not after all of their comments that aryling has mimmicked with his remark about "opposing Bush's insane Iraq policies."

The political left in this country has a long history of backstabbing Republican Presidents during time of war. Kerry met with the RNV in Paris while Nixon was trying to win the Vietnam war. Kennedy met with the Soviets while Reagan was fighting (and winning) the Cold War. And today the left has aided and abetted and lent encouragement to the enemy at every turn. The NY Times has even tipped them off as to how we were tracking them.

The left has made a major fuss over Abu Ghraib that was blown entirely out of proportion. They took a TOTAL FABRICATION by Michael Isikopf about Gitmo and turned it into another one of their causes celebre'. When Isikopf offered to resign in embarassment at how impossibly wrong his claim was the left only turned up the volume.

Every death of a US soldier has virtually been celebrated by the left as a reason to cut and run. Every week another leftist poll comes out telling us how unpopular the war and the president are. Guys like Charlie Rangel insist that only the most unfortunate and economically desolate young people are volunteering for the service (ever hear of Pat Tillman?). Then guys like wink and aryling come on the board at TH and say that this is not inconsistent with "support" for the troops.

And all of this is in additon to the fact that al Qaeda, just like the VC and RVN, knows they can't beat us in a straight up fight, so they carry out a criminal resistance in which they target civilians and policemen in addition to US and Iraqi soldiers hoping that they can hold out long enough for the American left to deliver them a political victory where a military victory is not possible.

So you guys who claim to "support the troops but not the war" come talk to me AFTER you've sent contributions to Adopt-A-Soldier, or to Frankie Mayo at Operation AC, or after you've written a letter of encouragement to one of our guys over there. Talk to me after you've done something concrete, something besides mouthing platitudes and/or left-wing talking points.

And here's a novel idea. Why don't you help bring the troops home AND greatly reduce the chances that troops will have to go on similar missions in the near future by helping them end this war by WINNING it?

That one never occurred to you, did it?

You dumb LIBERALS
Wink writes:
"If your leaders loved the military so much more than we Liberals why don't they pick-up a gun and go fight? I'll tell you why. Because they are cowards and rather have their minions do the fighting for them."

It certainly would help the knowledge of the Socialists (DUMOCRATS) is they would pick up a gun and go to Iraq and help our troops fight the War on Terrorism. They might learn something. I say MIGHT because I do not think they have enough brains to learn anything. They are so mired in Socialism and their own stupid talking points that they refuse to believe the truth about anything. They just continue to lie about everything pandering to the "entitlement generation" of this country. The liberals have already enacted most of the points stated in the "Communist Manifesto" and are itching to enact the remainder.

When "Shrillary" Clinton becomes President it will not take long for her to turn the country around and make it similar to what the USSR was before the infamous "wall" was torn down. She is without a doubt a COMMUNIST, but like the other Liberals will not admit it.

I am just glad that I am old enough that I probably will not be around when she "converts" this nation into a Communist Nation.

The Crawfish
"I (state your name) do swear that I will uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic...

Crawfish, you missed the fact that they'd have to FIGHT to DEFEND the Constitution.

Most liberals couldn't fight their way out of a thick fog and they want to CHANGE the Constitution into a living, breathing, changing, one.

Just a minor point.

truthspotlight
my denomination is american baptist who along with methodists, lutherns, and presbyterians are largely liberal.
i am a liberal because of my religion.

why? you into christian bashing along with liberal bashing?

as far as blocking military votes that is another myth perpetrated by the biased conservative media.

Sheesh.
Markw: "Asserting that any American hopes for the death and defeat of our soldiers is a tactless rant with no foundation."

Um... Did you read the column?

Jabelson: Cherrypicking? CHERRYpicking? John Kerry headlined the Democrat's national ticket. This column could be as long as a book.

tanabear: You make the usual amount of sense with equally relevant points.

wink: Thank you for serving. I think you have a unique view of what is liberalism.

---

Why can't liberals just admit that most liberals despise the military????

Sad But True Mr. Hawkins
The Dems are finding new ways to shoot holes in feet that have already been blown off by their own doing.

Sad, during A TIME OF WAR while we have TROOPS IN HARMS WAY, the Dems think that politics mean more than soldiers lives.

Time to bring back treason and sedition laws?

gunny g who appointed you spokesman for
liberals?
you are a blame americans firster problem.

do you know any liberals?
it seems like you have this stereotyped idea of what liberals look like and act like without any basis for those stereotypes.

i will tell you this, when i was in college the young republicans consisted of nerds and geeks but i have not projected that image on all conservatives and republicans like you do with liberals.

eagleone
please point out in the constitution where it says tha during time of war, democracy no longer applies to the people of the US.

steve o
because it is simply a myth perpetrated by the biased conservative media as a talking point to rally the base.

liberals love their country and the military as much as conservatives.
no liberals objected to the war in afghanistan.

are you saying there are no liberals in the military. ridiculous!!

why do you hate your fellow americans so much that you would believe lies about them for political reasons.

religiouslib
Let me see.

I have a raving loony lib living out in The People's Republik of Boulder.

I have a flaming loony libstooge brother-in-law in NYC. (Serious MOONBAT!)

I have a few libs on my wife's side of the family. Vote Dhimmicrat and then shell out taxes by the thousands! haha. What's even funnier is asking them what Hitlary has done for NY. Funny to see the deer-in-the-headlights look.

One of my sisters is a staunch libturd, her nickname in the family is: Dingy".

My other two sisters are recovering libs who voted for, they're sorry to say, Velcro-Fly Bubba.

Living through the Scumbag Carter years, with two of them on active-duty.

Surviving Velcro-Fly's "meals-on'wheels" foreign policy for the US military.

Kinda think I have the resume to post what I do.

Religious Lib
First, I like your conundrum screename.

Second, why is a lib chest thumping with a document they think changes with the perceived will of the Democrats?

Third, I am pointing out that the Dems are practicing the epitome of democracy when they believe that its practice exceeds the saftey and the mission of our troops during a time of war. In other words, dems are religious. Politics is their cult.

Fourth, check this out

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sup_01_18_10_I_20_115.html

and more specifically this (subsection a)

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00002388----000-.html

Man that subsection covers half the dem party...and a few repubs as well!!!!

Wink
I'm guessing by your post that you are an E-3 or E-4 who is pissed about getting deployed or you've never deployed and are just scared you might...or you might even be the PFC who got kicked out and started Daily Kos - this sounds just like his garbage.

Let me educate you on a few facts.

Our Constitution dictates that our military is under elected civilian leadership, not soldiers - there's many reasons for this type of system, but I don't have the time for a political lesson. (hint: see Cuba or N. Korea)

Our health care and housing are not "free" - they are provided in return for our service. Free liberal health care and housing are provided for doing nothing but existing.

If you think our current war in Iraq has nothing to do with the general war on terror then you haven't been paying attention - you think all the bad guys we are fighting in Iraq are Iraqis?

National Defense and strong respect for the law are lib ideals?!? You lost any shred of credibility with these ridiculous comments.

If you actually are in the Army as you claim please seperate as soon as possible, you obviously aren't happy and guys like you are a cancer in a military unit.


Trash (don't pick it up)
Funny how when republicans are the majority they ask for compliance in the sake of unity. Now trash like you are trying to separate everyone. Now tell me, you think that everyone who can be called a liberal hates the troops? That is trash, i