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Thursday, December 04, 2008
Joel Mowbray :: Townhall.com Columnist
How Conservatives Helped Elect Obama
by Joel Mowbray
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Was the Copenhagen Global Warming Summit Walk-Out a Win for the U.S.?


The most underreported story of the election is that conservative voters provided the margin of victory for Barack Obama—a finding that has dramatic implications for both Democrats and Republicans.

Normally winning with impressive margins in the popular vote and Electoral College would translate into a governing mandate.  Obama’s victory was not an ideological one, however.  The electorate is almost exactly as center-right as it was in 2004.  The Bush 2004 voters who pushed Obama over the top rejected Bush and the GOP, but not conservative principles.

“Change” in parties, not beliefs

Voters backed the candidate who ran on change, but they haven’t much changed their views of the public sector.  On the fundamental question about the role government should play in society, voters shifted only slightly from four years ago.  In 2004, a 49%-46% plurality of exit poll respondents said the government should not “do more to solve problems.”  In the immediate aftermath of the meltdown on Wall Street that the media blamed on free markets run amok, barely a slim majority of voters, 51%, thought the government should do more. 

Though the lion’s share of Obama’s voters wanted more activist government, over one-fifth of his supporters said that the government is already “doing too much.”  This smaller group—largely consisting of the conservatives and conservative-leaning independents who had voted for Bush in 2004—cannot be forgotten as Obama and his advisors weigh their options for everything from financial industry regulations to an automaker bailout.

Defying conventional wisdom, Obama’s vaunted ground game only boosted liberal and youth turnout by one percent each of the total electorate.  A detailed examination of exit polling suggests that the Democrat’s victory primarily was keyed by two key factors: 1) many conservatives who used to consider themselves Republicans no longer do, and 2) almost one-fifth of Bush 2004 voters chose Obama, with the biggest defectors being conservative-leaning independents: “Security Moms” and Catholics.

Conservatives abandoned the GOP

Despite the harsh criticism most prominent conservatives level at him, Obama picked up one-third more conservative voters than John Kerry, at 20%.  Self-identified conservatives in exit polling comprised 34% of voters in both 2004 and 2008, yet the number who called themselves Republican dropped from 37% to 32%.  In an evenly split nation, the GOP losing 14% of its base overwhelmed almost everything else.

On statewide ballot initiatives, voters supported gay marriage bans in Arizona, Florida and California.  In Florida, Amendment 2 needed to clear the 60% threshold the state sets for amending the constitution, and the measure garnered 62% support.  McCain lost Florida, 51% to 49%. 

Even on what is presumed to be safe liberal territory—the environment—the electorate did not tilt leftward.  As reported on the Wall Street Journal web site, “Among five major energy and environmental ballot initiatives from California to Missouri, all but one were voted down.”  The one that passed, Proposition C in Missouri, encountered no serious opposition.

The ideological composition of the electorate, in fact, was almost identical to 2004.  Liberals went from 21% in 2004 to 22%, and moderates were 45% four years ago versus 44%.  Democrats enjoyed a small uptick in voters who label themselves Democrats, from 37% to 39%.  So while Democrats added some new adherents, most of their new seven-point margin in party ID owes to an exodus from the GOP.

Right-leaning Bush voters swung to Obama

Two key right-leaning constituencies deserted Republicans: “Security Moms” and Catholics.  Though the media has made the “gender gap” a household term, the more apt classification was a “marriage gap.”  Single women were heavily Democrat, and married women leaned Republican.  “Security Moms” became the label for married mothers attracted to the hawkishness of the GOP.

Security Moms

Almost 30% of the women who voted in this election were married with kids, and Obama won them 51%-47%.  The same exit poll question was not asked four years ago, but most estimates are that Bush won that group handily in 2004.  The demographic has become a key part of the GOP coalition.  Highly respected Republican strategist Michael Meyers, president of TargetPoint Consulting, consulted the Bush-Cheney 2004 campaign and the Republican National Committee and he was among the pioneers of micro-targeting and crafting strategies to reach groups such as Security Moms.  He says bluntly, “We cannot win without winning married moms.  Period.”

Catholics

McCain also lost ground among religious voters, but not in the manner predicted.  Confounding expectations from this spring, McCain performed just as well with white evangelical Christians as Bush did in 2004.  Catholic voters, however, shifted in large numbers for Obama.  Bush won the historically Democratic constituency 52%-47% four years ago.  He did this by winning weekly church-going Catholics by a robust 56%-43%, while essentially splitting Catholics who attend church less often or not at all.  McCain, on the other hand, roughly split weekly church-going Catholics with Obama, and trailed badly among less devout Catholics, 58-40%.

Falling from Bush’s 44% of the Latino vote to 31% clearly hurt McCain’s figures in the Catholic vote.  But that drop alone could not account for much more than half of the loss he experienced overall among Catholics.  The bulk of the remaining Catholic voters that switched from Bush in 2004 to Obama this year likely came from cultural conservatives, including so-called values voters and Reagan Democrats.

In perhaps his most honest moment of the campaign, Barack Obama in June told the New York Times, “I am like a Rorschach test.”  Unlike most politicians who seek to define themselves sharply, Obama proudly defined himself as whatever different voters wanted him to be.  Accomplishing this feat in a heated election was a tall order, but in governing, it becomes nearly impossible.  In policy battles, there are winners and losers because lines are drawn, and sides must be taken.

For Obama to maintain the coalition that elected him, he needs to come down on the right side of that line more often than most in his party would like.

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About The Author

Joel Mowbray, who got his start with Townhall.com, is an award-winning investigative journalist, nationally-syndicated columnist and author of Dangerous Diplomacy: How the State Department Threatens America's Security.

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Fight for title of First Black President
Don King to promote Bill V Barack title fight and we got the Don King interview. http://stopthepresses2.blogspot.com

Political Irony.......lol....
"A detailed examination of exit polling suggests that the Democrat’s victory primarily was keyed by two key factors: 1) many conservatives who used to consider themselves Republicans no longer do, and 2) almost one-fifth of Bush 2004 voters chose Obama, with the biggest defectors being conservative-leaning independents: “Security Moms” and Catholics."

Security moms?......lol...voted en masse for a leftist liberal in foreign policy........lmao...

Catholics?.....lol.......voted en masse for a major proponent of abortion....lmao

Seems the wheels are finally coming off!

Numbers are funny things
Mowbray backs up his assertion that Obama's election did not signal a change in the electorate's policy preferences by stating this:

In 2004, a 49%-46% plurality of exit poll respondents said the government should not “do more to solve problems.” In the immediate aftermath of the meltdown on Wall Street that the media blamed on free markets run amok, barely a slim majority of voters, 51%, thought the government should do more.

Notice what Mowbray does. When he cites the first poll, he notes that it is 49-46 against more government intervention. That means that 5 percent picked some third category ("I'm not sure," for example). But when he cites the 2008 poll, he only gives the figure of 51 percent in support of more government involvement. Doing this misleadingly suggests that those who wanted a less hands-on government represented 49 percent, but of course they didn't. The third category presumably still exists. Assuming that the "I'm not sure" category was about as large as it was in 2004, that would mean that only 44 percent of the country thought the government should not "do more to solve problems."

That's a sizable shift -- a greater shift, in fact, than the change from Kerry's support to Obama's support. In other words, the poll data Mowbray cites are STRONGER evidence that the electorate has changed than the election of Obama itself.

You have to question...
the "conservativeness" of a "self-described conservative" who would vote for Obama! It certainly can't be based on any firmly held principles.

Flawed
No true conservative would ever vote for Obama.

Period.

The data is flawed.


Proving who was less informed.

Once again this proves Obama's supporters were less informed.

The article says many conservatives voted for Obama because they wanted change.

They obviously didn't know the current economic crisis was caused by Democrats like Barney Frank and Chris Dodd.

data is flawed
I would agree with Surfcity no conservative would have voted for obama. If Catholics did it was over giving amnesty to illegals the catholic church has become a sanctuary for them. There were more Republicans who voted against obama than for Mccain.And voted because of Palin.I dont fit their polling Im a single mother raising a child and registered Republican.

Mowbray wrong
By trying to keep "conservatives clean" Joel proves the country is center left. His presumption is that the country is still conservative therefore some conservatives HAD to vote Obama. NO WAY. There are in fact fewer cons. Basically repubs and cons are losing voters because of their weak job performances. The dems have the ball now because of that and that alone!

If we want to be the majority party
We need to embrace Hispanics. These are our people. They are God fearing conservatives that grow big families. If that's not a republican ... then there is no such thing. WE need to drop the over the top rethoric on immigration and come up with a workable program.

If you are a conservative in your twenties you can forget Medicare, and Medicaid unless Rositia and Jesus are paying the bills. Lest we forget.

A Hell Of A Choice
Obama ran a very conservative campaign. His mantra was tax cuts. McCain is no conservative and ran a terrible campaign. George Bush is no conservative and has given us bigger government, higher spending and cranked up the printing presses to create a lot of funny money that has lead to our economic meltdown. The media were certainly not going to tell people who Obama really is.

Given these circumstances I am surprised that Obama did not win by a lot more votes. Now he has to reveal who he really is and govern in such a manner that life will get better. I don't think things will get better. I think he will be gone in 2012.

a "C+ " for Mowbray
Passing, but not outstanding, grade.

Genuine conservatives have been abandoning the Republican party.

This can no longer be denied.

Independents are too.

Why?

At least two reasons:

1). Perception among some conservatives and independents that social conservative influence within the GOP is making the party too intolerant.

2). Neocon-inspired foreign policy culminating in Bush decision to invade Iraq has caused alot of conservatives and independents not only to question that policy, but to repudiate it.

Even among white males, traditionally a strong GOP constituency, Obama managed to get a sizable 41% of that vote(among males of all races, Obama got 49% and McCain got 48%).

Obama either won, or tied, McCain among ALL age groups, except for 60+, where McCain ekked out a slim 51% majority.

Catholics, Jews, Hispanics, moderates, independents, women, ALL favored Obama over McCain.

Some can blame media, or "flawed" data.

But that ignores the problem.

Pennsylvania Yankee's 1:33 posting that the electorate has fundamenally shifted may be true.

At least one example of such a shift is its acceptance of more government intervention to help Americans with staggering health care costs(in my modest opinion anyway).

We seem to be trending more centrist, even slightly left of centrist, on some issues.

That does not make us a "hard Left" nation, but I don't believe we are as "center Right" as Mowbray would like to believe.

Thomas J Gassett From Washington

Define "Over the top rethoric".

Conservatives have consistantly said they want secure borders that allows for legal immigration.

When Hispanics want secure borders that allows for legal immigration they can come to the GOP or any party that fills that desire.

Hispanics, will not help
Conservatives, that is a driven agenda to try to convine us to accept criminals into the country, in addition McCain has actively support amnesty. The fact is conservatives walk away and are now coming back as evidence in Ga. WE also have a standard bearer now.
Sarah

Conservatives
As others have said, no true conservative would vote for Obama, but many of the voters voted for the Chrisma of Obama and against the lackadasial John McCain. Had John told the voters loudly and clearly that he was against abortion and same sex marriage as well as Obama told us what a rosy world he would create more Republicans would have stood up in support. He(McCain)should have stood firmly on the platform of the Republican party which stated its beliefs in controlling abortions.

Maverick
what the republicans need is a'conservative' candidate and not a 'maverick'.

Obama Not Truthful
Obama was not truthful about who he was, and with massive amount of amoney for advertising and absurd media bias, Obama got away with it. With Bush being so unpopular, the financial crisis creating economic insecurities historically favoring Democrats and the bailout obscuring differences between Democrats and Reoublicans, too many people voted for Obama to get change without believing in the kind of change that Obama really means to bring.

GOP not conservative anymore, thats why
I tend to agree. The GOP is simply not conservative.

To be conservative, you must hold hard on traditional American values.

Fiscal responsibility (cut spending, actually CUT some government programs).

Reinforce American traditions: English langauge, insist immigrants are to learn English and assimilate to American culture, not the other way around. Strong borders, strong immigration enforcement. Why? Because "a nation without borders is not a nation" - Reagan

Sovereignty. Independence. We have become dependent on other nations because of excessive trade and excessive immigration. We need strong industry (engineering, manufacturing, energy - coal, nuclear, oil as well as newer energy technologies).

Instead, the GOP is simply Democrat Lite.

I have been...
...a registered Republican since I reached voting age many years ago,but I consider myself a small "c" conservative.Usually,that means the Republican candidate gets my vote.But not this year.McCain and his running mate Feingold did not and will not ever get my vote for any office.The Republican party can do with that piece of information whatever they wish.This year I voted for the Libertarian Bob Barr.If I didn't have that choice,I simply would have skipped the Presidential line and voted on local issues.

I do not owe my vote to the Republican party,they owe me a candidate I can support.I will spend my vote any way I choose,and that is the way I chose.

And by the way,I take NO responsibility for electing a person I didn't personnaly vote for,so don't even go down that road,

Those so-called Catholics
I converted to Catholicism 2 years ago. The young Catholics I have met are still preaching Liberation Theology that was discredited and abandoned many years ago by the church, along with the fancy name for communism *Redistributive Justice* -- they voted for the Obamination although he supports infanticide as well as no holds barred abortion, because they believe it is more important to take away the private property of others and hand it over to those they think are more worthy. The vast majority of those who believe this is true Catholicism are young enough to still be dependent on their parents, thus have mothing to lose they think -- except the necessity of paying back their college loans (all education should be FREE!) and the supreme confidence that when the goodies are handed out, they will be the winners.

In other words, the stupid, greedy CINO youth blindly followed the man who seemed to be flinging Goodies from the window of his speeding Green Limo.

Thomas from WA
To clarify I said. I am talking about ILLEGALS from any counntry coming into the USA. As for the youth or myself I might add not having Medicare or Medicaid in the future if not for illegals or did you mean hispanics? There is a difference you know. You check the facts and see how much they are costing us . As usual you people try to make us sound racists if we are against illegals and turn it around to say we are against hispanics. In my neighborhood we have Cubans here legally, Puerto Ricans, from Hondouras, Guatamala, and Mexico, but there are alot from Mexico who work,send money back to Mexico, have babies paid for, health care, food stamps, free education, idenification fraud,social security fraud that I am paying for NOW. By the way my son has friends who are hispanic and is taking Spanish in high school as a necessity for his future in the job market. The hispanics that live here donot wish to speak our language even tho most of them can speak our language. I am so tired of walking around and all they speak is spanish and to each other they segregate themselves by doing this.I am not a RACISTS for believing noone should enter this country illegally and retain all the benefits of a citizen. It just happens to be a fact that majority of illegals are hispanic is not racists on my part but a true fact. I would be a racists if I said I only didnt want hispanics in the USA that is and would be racists.The reason most of you resort to using racism you have no other defense and you know it fuels hatred.

one word
Shameful

Huckabee
I watched Mike Huckabee on Hannity and Colmes last night, and they were discussing what the OP should do, become more conservative, more moderate, etc.

Well, lo and behold, Huckabee said Republicans ought to be more conservative, and the first two things mentioned were banning abortion and gay marriage. Yes, with the financial meltdown and the potential of a horrible bailout of the automakers, the two foremost issues are social ones. I hope the GOP rots for a while until they comprehend that we need to look at issues people really want to be solved: lower taxes, less govt intrusion in our lives, no more govt bailouts, choice in health care rather than a single payer system. And finally, states and the feds need to lessen spending.


Quite frankly, I am surprised that
John McCain lost by so few votes. But of course, naming Sarah as his running mate closed the gap significantly. The problem with McCain was that he was/is still a maverick and not a conservative. Conservatives did not abandon the conservativism. John McCain abandoned conservativism. That is why John McCain lost the election.

Apparently, the GOP needs to be reading this column (and others like it) to realize that they will always lose until they field a conservative nominee.

The brilliant compaign that Obama ran consisted of 2 words - 'hope' and 'change' while never defining what 'hope' and 'change' meant. He did nothing other than let John McCain lose the election all by himself.

What's wrong
with this story is the same thing that is wrong with most of America. Ignorance.

Just because someone opposes gay marriage or abortion on demand does not a conservative make. In other words, many social conservatives don't have anything against a growing government that redistributes wealth and takes "compassionate" care of everyone via the nanny state.

I hear this from people all the time and it always makes my mouth drop. A lot of self-proclaimed conservatives do not see the danger to their liberties or to the survival of our country from an expanding government. This is largely ignorance of history and human nature.

I am not one of those who advocates throwing the baby out with the bath water. As a social conservative myself, I certainly don't see the advantage of riding conservatism of those with social ideals. Christians, especially, need to be taught that Jesus' admonition to care for the poor did not mean passing this responsibility off to government.

We need to do more to educate our movement. The fault is partly ours.

It's scary, and it's sad.

Gay conservative
Getting not only conservatism but the country in general back on track is first and foremost a spiritual problem and a morals problem.

When people begin to deteriorate spiritually, it opens them up to the idea of allowing other people to take responsibility for their lives. A country that is morally strong would never be supportive of, for instance, the nanny state. Strong morals creates a sense of pride in one’s self and one’s ability to care for one’s self. Weak morals makes people more prone to shrug off responsibility. Weak morals also makes people okay with having government steal other’s wealth for themselves.

A country that is weak morally will never be strong financially or politically. This is why these men have put abortion and gay marriage as First Issues.

Don't Make This Difficult
Most of this country's opinion makers and pundits over complicate the results of the 2008 election. It's quite simple, really.

The GOP lost because they proved themselves incompetent, cowardly, corrput, and, in some cases, perverted. Americans don't know ideology. They don't know the difference between the GOP and the DNC. They don't even know the names of the candidate, who we fought in the world wards, the civil war, or even the Vietnam war. Most Americans are iliterate mouth-breathers who can't pour urine out of a boot with the instructions written on the heel.

But they do understand it's wrong to send our troops into wars that they are forbidden to win because American leaders fear offending the enemy. They can see how the GOP wrecked the economy, spending all our money on communist garbage programs just like any socialist would.

They saw incompetence with their own beady little eyes during the Katrina disaster. The ineptitude of our government, and Bush particularly, was on full display.

And they were totally uninspired by a president unable to speak coherently and unwilling to talk to us directly on important issues.

McCain was the worst of the GOP. The man is a broken down old woman who knelt before his enemies as if he was still in Hanoi. He had no vision, no ideas, no courage and no will. I think he was actually a DNC plant.

AudiR10
You are so right!

See my post to gay conservative.

The root of this attitude is in greed and envy. Greed and envy are moral problems. This is why the moral condition of our country is such an issue.

If a person is strong morally, the philosophy of greed ane envy will not have an impact on them. I have never been wealthy. Sometimes I have been dirt poor. But I have never been envious of other's wealth or social advantage. I have admired these things and been happy for people who had them, but I never was resentful.

Most of my life I have felt that God has blessed me far more than I deserve. Thus, when a politician starts talking about how "the rich" have opporessed me and society therefore owes me some advantage, it rolls off me like water off a duck. It simply has no impact on me.

(I'm sorry if this sounds preachy. I don't mean to imply that I'm a saint. I have other areas where I'm not strong and do fall to temptation. Envy is just not one of them.)

The Wimpublicans...
...seem to be terrified of the responsibilities of winning an election. For that reason, the Wimpublican "elite" (with massive help from the RATs and the enemedia) chose to run the only candidate who could run so miserable campaign as to manage to lose to The Obammunist. And they KNEW that Sen. Tantrum McScamnesty would gain only minimal support from the conservative base. They were right.

Conservatives abandoned the GOP?
How could conservatives abandon the GOP? Conservatives are the customers, the GOP is there to serve the voters, the grassroots. The GOP abandoned the conservatives (AGAIN) when it nominated John McCain. How many conservatives would have chosen Obama over Ron Paul or one of the others? Do not continue to underestimate the McCain factor in this election.

Reform the primary process now!

Astute Observations
And apparently, Obama is coming down the center for the most part in selecting his cabinet. With the exception of his Attorney General.

Far left liberals will be outraged by Obama's administration.
Move On is going to be seriously miffed.
Conservatives and Republicans will sigh a bit of relief, since no one really knew how Obama was going to govern.

So for the most part, Obama is acting a bit like McCain would have acted as President-Elect. Yes Obama will spend more, yes foreign policy will be a mess, but not that bad. Yes our security will be less in America and we can expect to see some attacks on our shores.

But America will not fall into the ocean and conservatives will survive for another fight another day. However, whether the GOP can survive is the big question.

There has been no better time for a 3rd party to rise in the ranks than right now. Can anyone say "Constitution Party?"

Nam65-66
Agreed. I voted this time against Obambi with a strong letter to the GOP. If they try to put up another Rino, the honeymoon will be over. McCain was slighty right of Obambi and does far too much lip-butt pressing to suit most Republicans.
If Palin had not been chosen he would have done far worse and I hope this is his last run.
If the GOP does not start putting up better candidates, I am voting Democrap next cycle, if for no other reason than to just return the favor from this year’s nominating fiasco.

P.S. Joel, If they voted third party, they are still patriots, if they voted obambi, they are traitors IMO.

LMAO hic! (not used with seatbuffers or permission, because I will NEVER ask for it!)

Palin/Jindal in 2012!

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.htm l
Peso George, Pardon Ramos and Compean before you leave office!!!

somewhat wishful thinking
Commentators are right that conservatives voting for Obama in significant numbers says more about the limits of self-identification in polls.

And Mowbrey presumably knows that referenda on abortion were all defeated, and yet he leaves that off his list suggesting a lack of honesty on his part.

That does not mean there was a sudden shift on abortion. It is more a sign that referenda tend to be pushed by activists, and of late movement has been by homosexual activits, environmental activists, and anti-abortion activists, so the referenda represent areas in which things went too fast. It says little about an actual shift.

As Pennsylvania Yankee correctly notes, the shifts Mowbrey notes in opinion are plenty big to explain the outcome of the election.

On the otherhand those shifts likely reflect a preference for Obama rather than driving it. If the democrats prove as incompetent as the republicans, there will be a quick shift back.

Not getting across
"McCain, on the other hand, roughly split weekly church-going Catholics with Obama..."

So much for the bishops' ability to get their message across.

point to ponder
Why is it that when Sarah Palin was on the ticket in Georgia, presidential race of 2008, the ticket LOST by a greater margin than when Palin was not on the ticket, but merely campaigned on behalf of Chambliss?

She may energize the base, but like I said, she alienates moderates...and that even exists in a reliably GOP state such as Georgia.

Oh What a Tangled Web
The Obama mama apparently was too busy working her way across the maledom of the continent of Africa to train her young lad that it is always easier to live the truth than a lie. We all know BHO is a clever politician, but now he will need the powers of a magician to govern. The last time we had a politician who ran a brilliant, winning campaign of amorphous hope and change was........... the peanut farmer/governor, Jimmy Carter. I recall among other things under his admin: hyperinflation, economic stagnation, unemployment above 10%, a bizarre energy policy and a feckless military effort to rescue the Iranian hostages. He improved with age, though, right? Now he's an avowed champion of anti-semitism, a pro-abortion advocate, a senior statesman purveyor of embarassing commentary..... And The Left adores him.

Doc-Nam6566-Hawkeye-Others
The McAmnesty Midget pissed away a victory by reaching across the aisle with 1 hand and grabbing his ankles with the other. All the while screaming “BOHICA BAILOUT!” In addition, McAmnesty could bore a statue. If not for Sarah Palin, Obama would’ve won 60-40. If Obama & McAmnesty were artists, McCain would leave his canvas blank and call it “Sugar in a Snowbank”. Obama’s canvas would be like those paintings at a State Fair where you squirt paint several different colors on poster board and then spin it. Having said that, on 01/21/2009 the RUBBER MEETS THE ROAD and he will have to deliver.

As for The GOP, we will be FINE as soon as we get rid of Wal-Mart Pilots, McAmnesty Midgets, RINOs, CINOs and other undesirables and return to The Buckley/Reagan/Goldwater Principles that define us AND run candidates that WALK THE TALK!

You got it wrong Joel
You say "Conservatives abandoned the GOP" when it's just the opposite, the GOP sbandoned conservatives!

Gay Conservative
I agree with you! We should be concentrating on lower taxes and smaller government. Over 70% of the country do not what abortions totally banned. However, the reality is that there needs to be compromise. Maybe we can work on getting late term abortions banned and adoptions promoted. Most americans are, as proved by passing prop 8, uncomfortable with the definition of gay marriage. The gay community can have civil unions with the same rights in the law as marriage. And no I don't think that compromising is compromising my beliefs and values!

How Conservatives Helped Elect Obama!
Yes, and I am very proud of the fact that we conservatives helped elect Obama and dump McCain the liberal, left-wing criminal and many of the Republican-Socialist Party politicians.


AuHunter
Errah! I was just going to say that, to paraphrase Ronald Reagan, "I didn't abandon the GOP, the GOP abandoned me." You said it as well. Medicare prescription drugs, out of control apending and fiscal irresponsibility (quite asise from the needed war spending which should have been financed in any case with war bonds ), pork barrel spending on a massive scale that left Democrat records far behind, and finally the horrific bailout(s) which McCain supported, effectively nationalizing private enterprise.
I voted for McCain but with zero enthusiasm excepting Sarah Palin's presence on the ticket.
The GOP deserved to lose. Maybe the coming four years of Euro-Socialism and inflation will change voter's minds. But if the GOP doesn't offer "change I can believe in" fuggedaboutit.

And furthermore...
Georgetwin's post reminded me that another indictment in the docket against the GOP was Bush/McCain support of the Amnesty bill and Bush's open border bent. And who can forget RINO Trent Lott's remark when he understood talk radio helped to defeat a bill that Ed Meese admitted was essentially the same as had been passed in the Reagan Admn and that they were wrong to push what rpoved to be a miserable failure, that "we'll have to take care of that." Now he'll get his wish, pesky talk radio will most likely effectively be legislated out of existence next year. Kill the gadlfys. Another GOP/Dem bipartisan initiative. United States of Greater Mexico here we come.

William Reply # 35
How lib of you to butt in to a conservation that does not concern you seeing how you are a lib.
And yes, I still have freedom of speech and neither Obambi, you or any other court jesters will ever take it.
If I want to give my opinion to a conservative that Republicans who crossed over to vote for “your POTUS elect” are traitors, that is my right. If they didn’t want to vote for McCain I can understand why they went third party (Palin got my vote) but there is no reason they can give for voting FOR a Marxist. None!
No thanks for butting in troll, now butt the F out.

LMAO hic! (not used with seatbuffers or permission, because I will NEVER ask for it!)

Palin/Jindal in 2012!

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.htm l
Peso George, Pardon Ramos and Compean before you leave office!!!

William
I said his principles, NOT his campaign style.

Republican-Socialist Party Take Note!
I am very proud of the fact that we conservatives helped flush McCain the liberal, left-wing, Keating Five criminal who halted his campaign to rush back to D.C. to hug his liberal buddies and tout and vote for the $850 BILLION dollar, pork filled-earmark laden, “redistribute the wealth” bailout bill for his Wall Street buddies, foreign bankers, foreign borrowers, and illegal aliens.

If the Republican-Socialist Party does not flush down the toilet these CINO'S who are nothing but liberal, left-wing Kennedy clones, the Party is OVER!

It's Over For The Republican-Socialist P
The Republican-Socialist Party lost my support with its lying, pro-North American Union, pro-Mexico,
pro-Chamber of Commerce, pro-amnesty, pro-illegal alien, pro-criminal, pro-Islamic immigrants, pro-Islamism, pro-huge government, pro-huge, huge national debt, pro-socialist policies, anti-Constitution (Bush said in regard to our Constitution "that Goddamn scrap of paper"), pro-welfare for illegal aliens, pro-free medical care for illegal aliens, anti-border security fence, refusal to prevent Islamic terrorists from illegally entering the United States, pro-bailout of its Wall Street frat-rat brothers, pro-bailout of foreign banks, pro-bailout of irresponsible borrowers, required banks and lending institutions to lend unsecured loans to illegal aliens so they could purchase housing in the U.S. and you and I would be required to pay for that housing, Texas allows illegal aliens to attend college at instate tuition rates but requires U.S. citizens living out of state to pay out-of-state tuition, and the Republican-Socialist Party politicians became common street criminals, pedophiles, homosexuals seeking sex in public toilets, totally corrupt, bribed and in the pocket of Big Business, supported a war to create one more Islamic dictatorship in the mid-East (Iraq), and McCain, the Keating Five criminal and his drug stealing, drug addict wife, was nothing but a Kennedy clone who kissed the arse of every liberal, left-wing Democrat who would stand still, but stuck his finger in the eye of every conservative who could not move fast enough to get out of his way (and do not forget McCain did his best to stop the inquiry into those American soldiers still being held by the Viet Cong). Those are just a few of the reasons why I refused to reward these Republican-Socialists with my vote starting in the 2006 where I voted straight Democrat and will continue to do so until such time as the Republican-Socialist Party dumps these CINO'S.

Why so surprised?
Everyone here seems so surprised by the Catholic vote, but Catholics have been swing voters for decades. True, the pope and his bishops are very conservative, often putting forth the position that abortion and gay marriage are the most important issues upon which to vote. But American Catholics have gotten used to these pronouncements -- on birth control, pre-marital sex, stem-cell research, even Harry Potter -- and have also gotten fairly used to not taking the pope's words as gospel (so to speak). They read the Bible and see in Jesus a figure far less judgmental and angry than the one the Catholic Church often puts forth. And they apply these values to their own voting choices. For many Catholics, it seems hard to imagine that -- if Jesus was preaching in America today -- he would be focused on preventing the government from letting gay couples get married or telling followers that they should be ashamed for using birth control to try to be responsible about raising a family. And after the priest sex scandal, many Catholics understandably feel that the church has to work on its own moral credibility before asserting authority over the sexual lives of Americans.

It is funny that a GOP that once smeared Kennedy by saying he would essentially be a slave of the pope now bemoans Catholic voters for being independent of Rome.


A neglected factor?
I'll have to look closely at a lot of survey results, but I think there's a possibility that another factor, not mentioned (but surely recognized) by many conservatives: Whether you liked or loathed Obama, he ran a competent campaign, and his orgnaization got the job done. McCain-Palin ran a confused and confusing campaign; weeks went by with no clear picture of the Republican campaign's overall agenda. I often had the impression that McCain was throwing darts at a dartboard to figure out what he wanted to talk about, and Palin was out doing her cutesy-poo country girl thing like she was trying out for a reality TV show. The biggest Republican error was that McCain-Palin didn't get down and dirty, low-balling their campaign by attacking Obama on his most vulnerable points. And don't forget that many voters, even many conservative voters, saw McCain as simply Bush 44, and there was really nothing McCain could or would do to change their perceptions.


Ken
"Define "Over the top rethoric"

"wet*ack;" "Sp*c" "Hispanics are welfare sucking baby machines," "Mexico is a Third World Sewer."

These and other comments were made here on TH during the debate over the McCain-Kenendy bill in reponse to Linda Chavez's column. She included many in one of her column's and later it seemed to have vanished. Such comments don't endear you to Hispanic voters. You can be for a secure border and immigration enforcement without going off into racist, bigoted rants.

Bush got more than 40% of Hispanics didn't he? What did McCain get? He was the major sponsor for the failed attempt which would have normalized millions of Hispanics, why did they abandon him? The "Over the top rethoric" during the debate (Rush, Hannity anyone?) caused the GOP being painted as not too far removed from the American Nazi Party among Hispanics.

In 1984 when Jesse first ran non-Hispanic Whites were 87% of the population and now they are 70% In many large states they are a minority--California, Texas and New Mexico. Florida and Nevada will soon go that way as well and by 2050 or so the population at large will be minority-majority. The GOP can't continue as a major party as a "white party." Blacks are a lost cause and Asians outside Hawai'i and a few districts in places like California, the numbers are just too small. If Hispanics write off the GOP as 95% of blacks have you can forget the future of the GOP. You might as well fold as you will never have the presidency or congress again and then we'll be talking about the Democrats getting to 67 in the Senate (where they can then propose their own Constitutional amendments at will) and having control of more and more states houses as well.

Free Ice Cream Campaign
I have to agree with another that said we are over-analyzing the poll results. To give Obama credit for winning for any philosophical reason is pure bunk.
What Obama did was promise free stuff to everyone that believed him. That's what won him votes....
Now we will get to see how the elections go when he can't deliver on his promises. I'm sure it will go just like it did with Clinton when he "suddenly realized" he couldn't give the tax breaks he promised. That gave us a Republican Congress....

What attacks?
What attacks would you say would go after Obama's "most vulnerably points?" I suppose it's possible that focusing more on Ayers or Wright would have convinced possible Obama voters that he was dangerous, but I doubt it. Attack ads work best when even supporters of the person being attacked might admit they contain a grain of truth. Even backers of the men would probably concede in private that Kerry was an elitist, Clinton was kind of sleazy, and McCain did have a troublesome temper. The problem is that the attacks against Obama would fit so poorly with the man voters saw before them. It's hard to watch Obama during the campaign and say, "That man is a dangerous radical who doesn't love America."

Additionally, this seemed like the worst election for those kinds of tactics. Every time he was attacked personally, Obama simply reminded voters that he was interested in actually discussing policy (especially the economy), not personality. It's remarkable (and a testament to Obama's resolve) that the far younger candidate convinced voters that he was the adult among sniping children.

A Further.
This confirms some of what many of us knew when McCain was nominated. Which is that if you're going to run someone who looks like a Democrat - as opposed to a conservative - you'll probably lose - and so he did.

The leg of the stool that the GOP was sitting on that fell off - of course, was fiscal responsibility and smaller governement. Social Conservatives cannot, in and of themselves, win general elections. They must have fiscal conservatives. But they must also be as strong in their support of fiscally conservative principals as they are of socially conservatve princpals. The failure to do this, ensures only that Fiscal Conservatives, as they did in this election, will split their votes.

In terms of the social conservatives, the writer also implies that some of those voters were Catholic, and that they were the hispanic component of the Catholic Church. What that tells the GOP is that issues of choice do not trump issues of immigration - like it or not.

In the end, the entire definition of so-called "right of center", means little, other than the fact that the definition of politics has moved left over the years, and those now considered center-right, are in fact the moderates of 20 years ago.

For the Most Part ...
It is refreshing to read the threads on this site because the comments are measured by participants with facts, logic and philosophy. There is very little flame-throwing rhetoric as found on many other sites.

A person could actually learn something here, and can see ideas being debated ... remarkable! As a result, this is a great site for high school students to read, too. Many Thanks to all!

Conservatives Abandoned the GOP
The GOP abandoned us first. They made it clear that conservatives have no place in the GOP. To say McCain & the GOP mandarins forgot the conservative base is a gross understatement. They went out of their way to show their contempt and hatred for conservatives.


Roy
You must not have been here very long or not gone to the right threads, but there is plenty of flame throwing here and a good deal even from the columnists themselves. As for learning something here, I suppose anything is possible.


Conservatives Helped Elect Obama
In any voting population you’re going to have fence-sitters, uninformed, easily swayed ninnies and the so called independent voters whose loyalty (or moral values) no one can depend on. I’m sure other categories for voters with the “wobblies” abound.

The democrats specialize in capturing the uninformed, easily duped voters. That's one more reason illegal immigration is a looming danger to the country. The dems will give them amnesty and citizenship in exchange for their vote for the next three generations. And with that demographics’ minimum of four kids per family, the dems can rest easy.

Conservatism has taken a body blow, no doubt, but we are not out for the count! You can bet that the liberal left, all flush with “victory”, will overplay their hand in very short order and with hubris typical to their kind (different and inferior species) they will hoist themselves up by their own petards and disgrace themselves royally. Hopefully, they don’t take the Nation down with them!

All this analyzing of the votes
misses the mark by a lot. It might be true that this or that group voted a particular way, none of it explains why they really did that.

Americans are most of all a pragmatic people. The USA is the family business and our elite 'leaders' are the hired help. Every election result you can look at will show that when the people thought the country was well managed by one party, that party won. When it was seen as mismanaged, that party lost. The problem has been that we keep switching back and forth between two corrupt parties, always hoping for the different result that has yet to materialize.

Obama won because the GOP was incompetent and he offered some vague vision of change which was interpreted by the electorate as better management. The next 4 years will prove that once again we have been duped by the old lesser of two evils argument.

The only real hope we have is to break up this virtual lock on power by the elites of both parties! We must look for and support Independents and Third Party candidates who will stand for Constitutional self government and common sense. Doing the same thing again will not deliver us competent management, only more of the same. We should have fired all of them in this election.

The DEM/GOP/MSM propaganda has been all too effective and it is time we reject the lies for what they are. If you care to look at the the valid reasons for voting I/TP, visit my website, JOEOLIVAFORPRESIDENT.ORG. I can show you the evidence and proof of my position and you will come to understand that our inheritance has been stolen by the elites of both parties. Thanks, Joe

Independents
The independent voters that you just called "easily swayed ninnies" helped Bush win in 2000 and 2004. Voter don't get smarter when they vote for you and dumber when they vote for someone else. And both parties "specialize" in capturing independent voters, because winning an independent vote is essentially worht two votes (since not only did the independent vote for you, he didn't vote for the other guy). The party that won in 2004 on gay marriage probably shouldn't complain about someone using gimmicks to win.

Overanalyzing....
The blame for "losing" this past election lies squarely on the shoulders of the RNC. They "promised" the next candidacy to John McCain, and were willing to do whatever they had to do, including screw over their own constituency to try and ram the "Maverick" down our throats. I'm tired of being told I'm not a "real" conservative because I didn't support McCain. McCain is NO kind of conservative. There is a whole list of people I would have supported instead, but McCain never made my short list. Frankly, given the state of the economy at present, I'd give a lot for a "do-over". Say what you will about Romney, he was the ONLY candidate with experience or even a CLUE about the way the American economy operates and how to be successful IN that economy. Now we've got the politicians who bear much of the blame for the mess we're in, calling the shots. Now THERE was a great plan....sarcasm intended

pennsylvania yankee
that was a very perceptive and concise post.
you hit the nail on the head.

An ever-smaller party
"...many conservatives who used to consider themselves Republicans no longer do"

Well then, let's keep right on trash talking "real conservatives" and tell them not to let the door hit them on the butt on their way out. Look how well it worked one month ago today.

Roy
"There is very little flame-throwing rhetoric as found on many other sites."

You have GOT to be kidding. Just look at this thread itself -- plenty of the "people like YOU obviously aren't a real conservative!!" stuff that helped wipe out Republicans so badly last month. The only conservative site that seems less flamy is Free Republic -- there they just "disappear" any poster who isn't a mindless sheep.

So Much for the Anti-Abortion Bloc
"Confounding expectations from this spring, McCain performed just as well with white evangelical Christians as Bush did in 2004. Catholic voters, however, shifted in large numbers for Obama."

I read repeatedly on Townhall that the social conservatives were going to sit this one out because McCain was not a "true conservative," which seems to parallel "evangelical Christian" (he's Episcopalian, and Episcopalians are frequently lenient on abortion and gay rights). But if the passage quoted above is correct, social conservatives showed up in the same percentage as the last election, which Bush won.

And last time I checked, the official Catholic position is pro-life. So, if that were the over-arching issue, McCain should have won.

But the exit polls reported in the article above did not indicate how many of the security moms were Catholic. Maybe they jumped the fence because because Biden, a Catholic, was on the ticket. But I somehow doubt Biden was a bigger draw than Palin.

McCain lost in no small part because his inability to express and defend fiscally conservative positions was stunning. Obama left him huge openings on that front several times, and McCain failed to take advantage of them. If you're going to elect an economic ignoramus, you might as well elect the young, good looking black guy instead of the wrinkly, old white-haired guy.

Social conservatives cannot carry the GOP over the finish line by themselves. They need fiscal conservatives, too. And a lot of us fiscal conservatives are turned off by the social conservative agenda. Some of us voted Libertarian this time around.

Dim bulbs like jerabaub
fail to notice that Dems try their best to sound socially conservative during general elections. If most voters are socially liberal, then why would Dems risk alienating their liberal base just to pander to a few extremist social conservatives who won't vote for them anyway? It's absolutely perplexing unless you abandon your firmly held belief (more like a self-delusion based on what you wish were reality) that most voters are socially liberal. Witness Prop 8. Of course you conveniently ignored that obvious piece of evidence that contradicts your central premise.

You also fail to grasp that people only turned on the Iraq war after years of relentless pounding by the MSM. The vast majority of Americans favored the war early on. But too many of us demand instant gratification and have no patience for a war that takes longer than six months to win and that results in American casualties on a daily basis. There are also many conservatives like me who are peeved that it took Bush so long to realize his generals were covering their own butts rather than aggressively trying to win. Those are the real sources of general discontent about the war. But you libertarians (or whatever you call yourself) are as shameless as the leftists in peddling the lie that most Americans "oppose neo-con imperialist adventures." If that were the case, then we wouldn't have seen the initial 70%+ support for the invasion.

Your opportunistic lies and distortions make me sick. Your self-delusion makes me pity you.

That's all.

Lestat
Thanks for the vote of confidence.

Your side losing the election has caused some of you to become unhinged, but not to worry, the world will still go on.

Ron Paul
unintnentionally exposed the GOP for what it is. Just another out of touch group of elites that care only about power.

I believe this election is very different from those in the past in that the loss of voters supporting the GOP is permanent. I for one, will not support the GOP any longer. Any donations I make will be to the "Campaign for Liberty".

Until and unless I see Ron Paul like republicans running, the GOP can just fade away as far as I'm concerned.

Or as I like to say, the GOP should just merge with the Demcratic party and quit the charade of being "different".

Brilliant
"I can't refute a single thing you wrote, so I'll just blather on about 'your side losing'" (Which side, the conservative side? McCain is no conservative.)

I voted for Bob Barr. I wanted to vote for Alan Keyes, but it would have been a write-in, which I anticipated would have had less impact as a protest vote. As it turns out, most of the protest voters stayed home - incomprehensibly - rather than vote third-party.

I'd like to see the GOP go the way of the Whigs, but too many conservatives are willing to hold their noses and vote for any liberal as long as he has an R after his name.

So don't give me any of this "your side" garbage.

Now you're dismissed. That's all.

What some reporters still don't get
is that many conservatives DO NOT ANSWER EXIT POLLS. Other people who do often lie about who they are to skew statistics. Why don't you take those bubbles off your heads?

RW
Right. Unlike here Free Republic (which isn't free at all but an ideologically pure "Conservative" echo chamber) will delete any post the commissars that run that place feel strays too far from the party line.

But to be fair the far-left echo chambers (Democratic Underground) do the same thing.

My inlaws
Life long PA Union Liberals voted against Obama and voted for McCain. They did so because they where afraid of his potential, not hopeful and I think that was the issue here.

Obama is the least of my worries at this point, it is getting Congress back to a solid balance. That is what I am looking for and can not wait to see.

Lestat
"My plan for Iraq is to signal immediately to the Iraqi government that they are going to have to start taking responsibility for their own security, their own economy, their own political development. That I, unlike President Bush but like candidate Bush, do not believe the responsibility of the United States government and military is to nation build and it is not to occupy foreign nations. And we will begin immediately a withdrawal. I would not set a timetable, I don’t believe in telling your adversaries when you’re going to do certain things, I think that’s foolhardy and irresponsible. But I do believe that the only way to very clearly let the Iraqi government know that no longer are the American taxpayers going to foot the bill for the management of their country is to start withdrawing"...Bob Barr in May of 2008.

Barr does not believe in nationbuilding, nor in occupying foreign lands.

Funny that you would support Barr and also claim to support the failed neocon position of Bush, who only reluctantly was forced to agree to a "time horizon", after repeatedly declaring he would never do so.

Al Maliki's remarks on timelines were seen as an endorsement of Obama's position, not Bush's.

Both neocons and nanny state leftists share this grotesque idea that our government has some noble mission to intercede in the affairs of people, whether domestically or on foreign affairs.


It Doesn't Take A Rocket Scientist
To figure out McCain is a Democrat Mole in the Republican. A mole. That is a SPY who has spent years gaining the confidence and trust of his enemies by working with them side by side.
McCain is the lowest kind of traitor for betraying not only the party he undermined but also the American People who wanted a Conservative candidate.
Think about it. How many times did he back off from really gaining advantage? Why did he not point out Democrat weaknesses? He has been in politics long enough to know if he ran an "Honorable" campaign he would get his "Honorable" butt kicked. Besides, being a 'mole' would explain why it is so easy for him to "Stick his thumb in his party's eye", to "reach across the aisle" so much and to be the "maverick" he braggs about being....

reply to Pennsylvania Yankee
Just look at all of the criticisms made of Obama by TH columnists and readers. McCain-Palin could have launched attacks on Obama right at the start of the campaign for his associations with leftists. they could have started calling him a 'socialist' right after he was nominated. They could have made something of Obama's position on abortion. They could have found all of the hate-whitey rhetoric in Obama's early book, just like one of "National Review's" writers did. They could have catered to the myth that Obama is a Muslim. They could have challenged his patriotism up front. After a few weeks of this kind of bombardment, Obama would have been discredited with many voters. With enough? Who knows? But your candidates didn't even try.

I assume that conservatives will try to make up for the laxity of the Republican candidates by going all out to defame, discredit, and undrmine Obama as President. They need to keep the heat turned on him and their mediawhores need to be working to dig up any anti-American utterances, fights with his wife, and kicking the White House puppy. Conservatives will be in sorry shape if they don't learn to act like a genuine opposition movement. This means that all that nonsense about principled opposition, fairness, etc. have to be dropped. Total war against Obama is what real conservativse want--judging from TH posts--so conservatives in public life need to step up and give their movement the raw meat they really want.

Whe we're disenchanted...
The average American is ideologically a libertarian/conservative, but is left with the choice of a socialist and a corporatist.

Hogwash
No true conservative would ever vote for a true liberal, just as no true liberal would ever vote for a true conservative.

That said, I have no doubt there are people out there who, for whatever reasons (ignorance, duplicity) will identify themselves as cons voting for libs and vice versa.

Still, I think the essence of Mowbray's thesis is correct. McCain would have done a lot better, and likely could have won, had he received greater support from ACTUAL conservatives. The big questions going forward for the GOP is why didn't he get it and what will it take for the next GOP candidate to get it back?

As for Obama, he has absolutely no reason to temper his agenda out of concern for keeping the so-called conservatives "in the coalition." Mainly, because anyone who voted for him was prepared to accept his liberal agenda, so there is no reason with a strong Congressional majority to pull any punches now. So long as the remaining Republicans in Congress get their pork payoffs, they will sign on for whatever the Dems wave in front of them.

Conservatives? No.
The Obama voters may have said they were conservative. They may have voted conservative before. But dollars to donuts,they were not true conservatives.

No hard core conservative could vote for anyone who advocated abortion and infanticide. Not gonna happen. They may hold their nose and look the other way at some of his platform,but not that!!!

Polls got completely out of control this year. They were slanted to make whatever the pollster was for. It was polls,24/7 and they served one purpose ...to help the messiah arise to his throne.

Winning GOP 101
The Republican National Leadership has forgotten (assuming the current crop of underachievers ever knew)one of the bedrock principals of winning national elections. And that is "You might lose with conservatives, but you can't win without them."

This is such a self-evident statement of fact, you wonder what part of it the leaders of the party do not get. It is also a fact that the GOP cannot win without attracting other voters, there is no chance whatsoever that they can win if there is any significant movement of conservatives off the GOP ticket.

The basic strategy for either party is always to go as far toward the other camp as you can WITHOUT losing your base. In the case of the GOP, however, they said EFF YOU to conservative voters with absolutely no prospect of achieiving net gains from the direction of the left. What a bunch of losers.

I did not want Obama to win, but if there is any silver lining to this debacle it will be that the GOP wakes up and flushes their ineffective leadership out of the party and starts over with people who are capable of winning. So far I am not encouraged with Congressional GOP's current stay-the-course strategy. But the voters will ultimately force this issue for them if they lack the will to do it themselves.

Republican viciousness
Gestell suggests that to win, the McCain campaign "could have catered to the myth that Obama is a Muslim."

Have you really become so vicious, so uninterested in whether your attacks even carry a grain of truth, that you would encourage Republicans to promote a myth they know to be false?

Keep in mind, as well, that the persistent attacks against Clinton eventually backfired on Republicans -- and that was when some of the accusations turned out to be true. Mark my words, attack Obama's patriotism, suggest persistently that he is a black radical, fight the "total war" that Gestell suggests, and the GOP will only reenforce the image that it had in 2008: that of a party with no brain, no heart, no courage -- and only teeth.

P.S.
After finishing my last post, I tried to think of something that had no heart, no brain, no muscle, but lots of teeth. I came up with one:

A fossilized dinosaur

Seemed like a pretty fitting metaphor for the modern GOP to me.

Genteel Republicans
It never ceases to amaze me how the left can lie,cheat and steal till the cows come home and come up smelling like a rose. The MSM will let them get by and even uphold them in their lowliness. It happens all the time.

But let a Republican get off the reservation and say one discouraging word,even when it is true and we are so BAD. Why Republicans always try to be the good guy,is beyond my comprehension.

All the lying Democrat congress people,the DNC and their lap dogs,the mainstream media and the entertainment industry are famous for their dirty campaign against Republicans year round,24/7. It is 'way past time for Republicans to grow some and fight fire with fire. I,for one am more than ready!!

Conservatives Had No Candidate!
"The GOP lied, They died." Says it all. Fool We the People once, and you do not get a chance to fool us again.

The R. Party is completely dysfunctional and has an uncorrectable credibility problem. Vote Republican and what do you get? You get a Party that is for and against abortion, for and against Big Government, for and against securing our borders, and told us conservatives to hold our noses and vote for McCain!

Time for a real change! Let's move en masse to the Constitution Party (www.constitutionparty.com), and have a "home" party where our ideas are welcome.

It is well-past the time to replace the R. Party with a new major party, and let the Republican one pass into History with the Whigs!

Tim
I'm assuming the joke is that the symbol for the democratic party is a donkey (otherwise, your suggestion isn't a metaphor at all, but the equivalent of calling Democrats poopy heads).

Anyway, as a metaphor, I'll take it. The Democrat plods relentlessly forward. It may not go as fast as some would like, it's stubborn, it's ugly, and it certainly takes a lot of abuse, but it is always making progress.

I can live with that.

Country Club Republicans
A large proportion of the Country Club & Chamber of Commerce sets of Republicans deeply resented Sarah Palin's appearance on the national stage, because she a working class conservative threatened what they belive to be their entitlement, control of the upper rungs of power within the G.O.P.

This resentment was reflected in the rants of David Brooks, Kathleen Parker & Geo. Will complaining about Sarah, clearly none of whom understand the working class America Sarah represents.

Also, there was considerable disdain expressed of Sarah Palin's smalltown roots.

According to a recent Peggy Noonan column there are in America nearly 100,000 small towns with populations of less than 10,000 souls. Ergo, regardless approximately 80% of our population lives in urban & suburban environments the small town is still a factor of consiberable social consequence.

reply to Pennsylvania Yankee #7
I'm asking you conservatives to take yourself seriously. The charges against Obama were and are made frequently on TH. I assume that the beliefs behind them are widely shared by conservatives. If you are honest, you still believe what you've been peddling for many months now. So what's wrong with keeping up the heat? Are you afraid the nasty liberal media will hold you up to ridicule? Ignore them. Ignore the Liberals. You guys either believe you know the truth or you're just a bunch of pussies. Which is it?

Nice try!
In any election you must support your candidate 100%. Obama got 100% support from the Conservative, as well as the liberal Democrats. McCain had to share the support he was getting from the Conservative Republicans with Hillary Clinton because of those Conservatives in Fox news and talk radio who adopted Hillary as their Republican sweetheart. You can not win an election with 50% support from your own party. McCain's other 50% went to Hillary on a 24/7 basis when she was running against Obama for the nomination. When Obama won the nomination it was too late to play catch up and put McCain in the hearts and minds of the voters the way the Conservative Republicans did with Hillary. Conservatives in the Republican party encouraged the voters to crossover and vote for Hillary. It was this move which many Conservatives viewed as OK to vote for Obama. After all, they were encouraged to crossover and vote for a Democrat in the contest for the nomination. If it was viewed OK to vote for a Democrat in the contest for the nomination, it should also be viewed as OK to vote for a Democrat in the Presidential election. The Conservatives in the Republican party gave the election to Obama with their flawed strategy.

Penn Yankee
It was not the Republicans accusing Clinton of things that "backfired" on the Republicans.

It was the half hearted way the Republicans pushed the issues, and the whole hearted way the Legacy Press supported Clinton.

Um ... Charles?
In what way was the GOP effort to accuse Clinton "half hearted?" I mean, the story dominated the news for months. The Republicans impeached him. That's about as whole hearted as something can get. The public basically got fed up, and ultimately decided that Clinton's behavior -- while disgraceful -- did not merit him being removed from office. The GOP overplayed its hand.

This is one of the problems with the conservative echo chamber: you become removed from the real world. The fact is, sometimes the public as a whole disagrees with conservatives -- not because of media bias, not because they have been lied to. They just disagree. That doesn't mean that you are wrong, it just means that you haven't been successful at convincing the public so far. But the GOP should stop blaming everyone else for their failures, and at least recognize that sometimes, like in the Clinton impeachment and the Terry Schiavo case, it genuinely misunderstood the mood of the American people.

Would someone tell the Kook-Aids
If it is true that Conservatives helped to elect Obama, would someone tell the fascist Libtards...

Would someone tell the Kook-Aids
If it is true that Conservatives helped to elect Obama, would someone tell the fascist Libtards...

gosh, so many reasons
There are so many reasons that McCain lost. I had actually considered voting for him before he picked Palin. Yes, yes, she energized the base - but she repelled everyone else. The argument that seeing Russia from her house gave her foreign policy experience (repeated by the entire campaign) was just too terrifyingly ignorant. I didn't think that Obama had a lot of experience in this area, but at least he didn't come up with such a stupid argument - and he's doing what he can to appoint people with experience.

Furthermore, the republican party gained a reputation for being nasty and it has turned off groups that would naturally be conservative. Limbaugh said a few things about Mexicans that were turned into political ads and I'm sure that repelled many Latinos. There were many other hateful incidents, including Palin's "real America" (implying that the rest of the country didn't count).

But - there's no getting around it - the Bush years were devastatingly incompetent. (Not only did he lie about starting a war, he didn't even win the damned thing.) McCain and Palin, from their behavior, seemed just as incompetent.

Obama doesn't have a lot of experience but he ran the most disciplined campaign I've ever seen. He's appointing a cabinet that is fairly centrist. I hope he does well - we need a good president.

B.O. SUPPORTERS SWEATING BULLETS TONIGHT
How can they not be really anxious about the Supreme Court deciding whether or not to go forward with litigation that could ultimately pop their balloon?

I wonder what the Comrade's political hacks are thinking on the eve of this? I have a feeling the MSM can't hold the story much longer.

Jeffrey from MA
you will be made to look like a fool tomorrow. Join the ranks of the Andy Martin and Jerome Corsi's of the world.

I'm not sweating
I don't think the Supreme Court has any interest in imposing itself in a second presidential election, or in giving right-wing conspiracy theorists a chance to tarnish the dignity of the American judiciary. But even if it did, any court that actually heard the case would conclude the obvious -- Barack Obama was born in Hawaii.

1) The state of Hawaii has verified it
2) The Honolulu Advertiser in 1961 included a birth announcement
3) Obama's mother never visited Kenya, and his father did not return there until 4 years after his son was born (perhaps a fetal Obama went there on his own).

You've got at least four years of an Obama administration ahead, folks. If you don't have anything better to throw at us than this garbage, I'm not going to worry.

Victoria, you need to get out more.
Palin didn't say she could see Russia; Tina Fey, impersonating her on Saturday Night Live , said that!!!!!

OK let's be literal
Palin may have not said that she could see Russia from her house, but she did say - repeatedly - that the border between Russia and Alaska gave her foreign policy experience. She talked about trade missions, etc., but she's not been involved in any trade missions with Russia.

She also didn't know that Africa was a continent. And yes, I know there's a flap about saying that Eisenstadt was the source (he wasn't - it was apparently someone else) - but FOX and Newsweek still stand by the actual allegaction.

Go watch the Katie Couric interview again. After that, many conservatives realized that they could not support Palin for VP; nor could they support McCain, who picked her.

Rowly....and Jeff from VA.
Rowly.... is all these statistics saying that many conservatives told the elephant(GOP)to go play in the weeds and stroke it's trunk????

Jeff from Va.--Jeff you got it right!Overhaul
the primaries!! Or to h%%% with the primaries!
Just go to the convention and let the delagates battle it out..and then we have fewer to blame and shoot! The primaries are becoming
a display in OUTHOUSE OPERATIONS,INC.!1
ELVIS

nightowl
palin *did* say that; to charlie gibson interview on 9/11/08. look it up.

57 states
Everyone misspeaks at some point. My understanding is that Obama was talking about states plus territories, and a sentence did not come out right.

Whereas Palin repeated the Alaska/Russia thingy over and over. Stupidest statement of the campaign because she kept repeating it. Not a misspeak. She said it on purpose. Over and over.

I agree that Obama is light on experience (see my earlier post) but in about 4 months' time he'll have a lot more than Palin. However, I've been impressed by how he's been managing this extremely challenging transition.

Why Obama Won
He never had to go on defense. He was never challenged by the media. He could say whatever..and change it the next day. That wasn't a flip flop,though.He just had a different idea.The MSM said so.

The media was so emnamored of him,he could do no wrong. They never questioned his past,even the criminals he was involved with. They were not interested. He was black. He deserved it and it was time.That was all that mattered.

If the media had followed up on any one thing in his past and broadcast it like say, Mark Foley's e-mails,he would have been dead in the water. They ignored anything negative that would make him look less than a god... little 'g'.

If he had gotten i/10 of the bad publicity they gave Sarah Palin,he would have had to defend himself,but no,they tried to destroy her...and are still trying.

I submit if Jesus in all his glory had come down and run against Obama,he couldn't have won against a hostile news media. They will pay for their aiding and abetting a criminal who will destroy what is left of this Republic.

I Don't Think So
No one who is a true conservative "swung" to Obama. I completely reject any "polling" data that insinuates the contrary. For someone who "claims" to be a conservative to support Barack Obama is to completely abandon every principle on which they stand. Mowbray needs to vet his sources on this one.

Stupid is as stupid does1
Stop the intellecualizing ad nauseum. The reason Barry Dunham won is because the majority of american voters are dumber than a sack of hammers. That's it!

Barry Dunham's entire campaign went after the poor and the young. The only stratums in our spoiled society that would be dumb enough to embrace "HOPE and CHANGE".

Barry Dunham will be our president because he was voted into office by a segment of our voting population who could not identify our current vice president when presented with an 8x10 glossy of him!

I am sick of the analyzing, hand wringing,second guessing. He won because of the stupid!!!!!!


Distorted Morals
Conservatives do have morals,unlike the left, even if some may be distorted. I really don't need a lying liberal to talk to me about morals.

Another reason Obama won is the left helped elect McCain for us. Conservatives wanted no part of him. He disliked conservatives much more than he did Democrats. We disliked him,also.


He would slam a Republican every time they tried to say a negative word about Obama. He did not want to go back to the senate and have to face his friends,the Democrats,in case he lost.

He shed no tears about losing to Obama. Right now,McCain is probably one of the most unpopular Republicans in the country....by his own party. He is the other big reason Obama won.

Now,anyone who can refute my words,show some proof. Don't just say it. If you do you are a chickencrap liar, and the truth is not in you.

LC
and your answer is exactly why the republican party is in trouble.

it is all the fault of duped and manipulated americans.

do you know how patronizing that is.

more importantly, why would anyone want to join a party that thinks they are stupid.

you have lost your way by wanting to blame everyone but yourself.

of course, some conservatives like you always play the victim card.

Everyone knows
0 won because he is black. Liberal black. It never ceases to amaze me that people tie themselves into knots trying to explain why 0 won while dodging the obvious. All of you voted for this clown because he was black and now are immersed in how great and historic it is to have a black president. Never mind 0 is a bozo. The lamestream media, blacks, and guilty whites will not support a black who does not adhere to victim status.

Hey didja hear....?
Obama hired 3 LAW FIRMS ...

REPEAT 3 LAW FIRMS ...

to protect him from having to show his Occidental College documents ...

His Harvard Law School documents

and (drum roll please)

HIS BIRTH CERTIFICATE...

Any idea why he would go to so much trouble and expense to prevent the American people from seeing his papers?

What do you Obamabies think?

Just business as usual in Obama land?

Or is he possibly hidiing something?


LC
Dumber than a box of rocks,you are right.

Anne and others have shown the poll that proved it. Several times. Liberals just slough over what they don't want to see. The truth would hurt if they admitted it.

Why McCain lost
It had almost nothing to do with Obama being black. That is absurd. McCain was his own worst enemy. He made terrible decisions from the getgo:

1. He surrounded himself with lobbyists.
2. He could not seperate himself from Bush.
3. He picked a totally unqualified running mate.
4. He supported the bailouts.


rowly
here are some facts from exit polling.
i will make two personal observations.
conservatives tried to portray obama as a radical and when the debates occurred he came off as tiger woods.

second,watching cnn during the debates, the independents hated it when either candidate went negative.



Nearly seven in 10 voters say they're worried about being able to afford health care. Six in 10 disapprove of the war in Iraq. Seven in 10 disapprove of how both President Bush and the Congress are doing their jobs.

That's a strong headwind for John McCain, the flagbearer of the incumbent party. And it's not helped by the 60 percent of voters who say his vice presidential pick, Sarah Palin, is not qualified to be president.

Voters were also more likely to say McCain attacked Barack Obama unfairly -- 65 percent said so, though about half said Obama's hands were dirty on this front as well.

And many voters are expecting to government to dig deeper into their pocketbooks no matter who wines. About half -- 48 percent -- say their taxes will rise under either Obama or McCain. Despite McCain's push on the issue, just 22 percent think only Obama would raise their taxes.

There's a real enthusiasm gap. More than half -- 56 percent --of Obama's supporters are "excited" about the prospect of his becoming president. Among McCain's supporters, just 28 percent are excited.

With that weighing on their minds, about one in 10 voters waited til nearly the last minute -- making their decision in just the last week. The campaigns fought hard to win their votes. A third of all voters say they were contacted by one or both campaigns.


Palin/Russia
I stand corected; she did say she could see Russia but it had nothing to do with her being adept at foreign relations because of it.

" And, Charlie, you're in Alaska. We have that very narrow maritime border between the United States, and the 49th state, Alaska, and Russia. They are our next door neighbors.We need to have a good relationship with them. They're very, very important to us and they are our next door neighbor.

GIBSON: What insight into Russian actions, particularly in the last couple of weeks, does the proximity of the state give you?

PALIN: They're our next door neighbors and you can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska, from an island in Alaska.

GIBSON: What insight does that give you into what they're doing in Georgia?

PALIN: Well, I'm giving you that perspective of how small our world is and how important it is that we work with our allies to keep good relation with all of these countries, especially Russia. We will not repeat a Cold War. We must have good relationship with our allies, pressuring, also, helping us to remind Russia that it's in their benefit, also, a mutually beneficial relationship for us all to be getting along. "

Assuming she is a foreign relations expert because of it, was NOT implied by Palin!!! The demonrat interpretation of that, is extremely disgusting! But they always are!!

USpatriot56
only 3 lawyers.

coleman has 120 up in minnesota.

this is all a tempest in a teapot.

the case has been ruled frivolous already by a federal judge and the same will happen tomorrow.

he has produced an original birth certificate for the state of hawaii, the state department (passport) and the fec.

this is just a nutter conspiracy theory.

nightowl
you will find if you read the couric interview she does claim foreign policy experience because of alaskas proximity to russia.

rowly
here is the link for that although most exit polls were very consistent.

http://abcnews.go.com/PollingUnit/Vote2008/story?id=6172463

LC
Actually, the only reason that "Barry Dunham" won was because of the inept administration of the previous 8 years. The incredible mess that Bush has presided over (both domestic and Iraq) is probably the only reason that America elected a black guy.

Now, use all of your IQ points and you should be able to deduce that the true people who caused Obama to be elected are those fools who voted George W Bush into office...twice.

And you voted for whom......

Polls
ABC polls,of course!!! As I said if you can't refute what I stated,you are a liar. ABC does not count. They are part of the problem!! Box of rocks,indeed.

Going From Dumb to Dumber!
Ranger29 offers, "trying to claim foreign policy experience...period. Gov's are always light on that part of the resume...ask Mr Bush."

Heck, ask a community activist!

Akagi From GA

Excellent and thoughtful response on your part.

But your theory, if correct, would indicate a less than sophisticated voter on the part of Hispanics incapable of separating personalities from policies.

I didn't vote for Obama because of Bill Aryers, Rev. Wright, Hollywood Liberals, George Soros, or other people that supported him that are guilty of hateful speech. I voted against him on the issues.

If the KKK came out in support of lower taxes, I would stand with the KKK. If the ACLU came out in favor of lower taxes, I would stand with the ACLU. Because the issue is higher or lower taxes not personalities.

From what you suggest, Hispanics really don't have core values, they just have to like the people and the enviorment surrounding the candidate.

A Gov. Palin fantasy:
Would it not be great sport to see exactly who Sarah Palin might choose for her cabinet if our nation ever went brain dead and elected her president?

I'm guessing a "by golly...you betcha" hockey mom for Sec. of State and the head of hubby Todd's snow machine club as Defense Sec. and the Rev. Thomas Muthee as Attorney General.

And then it would mostly really unqualified Alaska folk for the rest of the positions!


A Populist View Fades With Time
tom offers, "The incredible mess that Bush has presided over (both domestic and Iraq) is probably the only reason that America elected a black guy."

That is absolutey stupid on so many levels.

If race had anything to do with this election, it was positive, not negative.

As for Bush, he did a good job and history will honor him.

Liberal Bottom-feeding Trolls
Good for a few laughs....nothing more.

tim
i simply gave you the exit polling data and gave you the link.

how is that dishonest.

it is a fact, though, that 60% of country didn't think palin was ready to be president.

rowly
find any exit poll you want, i don't care where it is from and you will get the same facts.


here is investors business daily exit polls.
http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?secid=1502&st atus=article&id=313288769834161&secure=1&show=1&rss=1

Tim
They have lots to be excited about. An up and coming president who could not get a clearance to be the White House Janitor if he tried. What a country!!!

rowly
that statement is just a myth.

just because you think something is true,doesn't make it so.

he has the top clearance in the land.

Tim and Rowly
You guys remind me of the kid who was playing football and came off the field and said...

"Coach, coach...I'm hurt...I'm hurt......but I don't know where."


christianlib
If it's true that Gov. Palin was a factor for most conservatives who voted for McCain, it simply shows the depth of the problems that the GOP has in 21st century America.

It speaks volumes that the GOP has such a weak field at this time that Sarah Palin might be their strongest player. Sarah has become a caricature of herself in many ways and all true conservatives can only hope that the above is not true.

I fear for our two party system!

Just curious,
But since McCain "did not want to go back to the senate and have to face his friends,the Democrats,in case he lost" I'm wondering who McCain will caucus with when the Seante goes back into session?

Maybe Rowly can tell us.

tom
You remind me of an idiot.

tom
Probable whoever Lieberman caucuses with. Good enough?

Rowly
Does it upset you when you cannot even make a reasonable response or an attempt to defend your position?

Yes, I know that you are in a weak and lame position...but that is your choice and you can always try thinking instead of typing.

Patrick
Who would win the "stupidest" title if President Bush and Gov. Palin duked it out?

Rowly
It seems as if you really don't know if you are on foot or on horseback but are you serious when you say that McCain will caucus with the Dems in the Senate?

If yes, I can understand why you admire Gov. Palin and her vast intellect.

What?
Are conservatives capable of rational thought anymore? Conservatives helped Obama by being frightened, selfish and devoted to relgious and political ideology. I quit listening to conservatives when they sold themselves to corporate and religous USA both clear failures.


Palin Problem
The GOP having an OLD nominee with an unqualified and unlikeable VP nominee caused many Independents and others to vote for Obama. Some will deny this but it's obvious. I voted for Bush the last two elections. This election, I wrote in the name of a VERY QUALIFIED Republician for president--Mitt Romney!

Tom Wi
Here is a suggestion for you. The next time you post on T.H. take your CHEESEHEAD hat off. I think it's too tight.You do not seem to be getting enough oxygen to your brain.


Tim
Wow!! You sound so tough that it probably scares your little keyboard.

If you have a viable point or a response...make it you idiot. Otherwise admit that you are a mouth absent a brain.

Tim
Another TH goober who tries to be clever by using sophomoric blather.

Reading what some of you folks type, it's no small wonder that Sarah Palin is the biggest "star" in the GOP universe right now.

Here's a tip: Try to come up with a viable point and then try to figure out how to put it into words and then type and post it. Hell, if you actually come up with something it might make your entire weekend!

LC
Another TH goober who tries to be clever by using sophomoric blather.

Reading what some of you folks type, it's no small wonder that Sarah Palin is the biggest "star" in the GOP universe right now.

Here's a tip: Try to come up with a viable point and then try to figure out how to put it into words and then type and post it. Hell, if you actually come up with something it might make your entire weekend!

Tom Wi.
Hmmm...,no blather at all. It seems that your post here telling ME to come up with a viable point, yadda, yadda, is a classic case of projection. Perhaps you should take a look at YOUR posts for viability.

And as I said before...,please take the hat OFF!

RR haters are not conservatives.
I am very proud of the fact that we conservatives helped flush McCain >>

There is nothing conservative in the way you Nazis treated McCain, the party, and the country. Until we flush the haters from the far right we will be a minority party. The hatred the RR spewed at Hispanics elected Obama and killed the republican party for years to come. You pompous so'called conservatives couldn't elect a dogcatcher. All you haters could do is elect Obamy. Go work.

LC
Did you miss the fact that you have now twice mentioned "taking a hat off" as your main point. Oh, wait a moment...you did prviously mention "Barry Dunham" a few times also. Way to go!!

But then you ignored the reason I gave you for "Barry" being elected. Probably because you did vote for Mr. Bush. Go figure.

Now, do you actually have anything to say?


It was the conservatives
who stayed home who elected Obama!

It's another switcheroo
to say that Obama is smart and Palin is dumb. 1984 deja vu. Sarah Palin is the most important thing that has come along for conservatives in recent memory, and it is precisely for this reason that the left won't let her go home in peace. I'm a fan, and I don't care what the libs think.

ropati
1. Sarah Palin said thaty Alaska produces 20% of America's energy.

2. Sarah Palin questioned certain books being in a public library.

3. Sarah Palin was blessed by Rev. Muthee who casts out witches.

4. Sarah Palin said that it was important that she could see Russia.

5. Sarah Palin believes that humans and dinosaurs lived at the same time.

6. Sarah Palinimpliess that the Alaska natural gas pipeline is on-going when the truth is not a piece of pipe has been laid.

7. Sarah Palin did not know the duties and limitations of the office she was running for.

8. Sarah Palin thinks that our involvement in Iraq was directed by God.

9. Sarah Palin did not know that Iran is not an arab nation.

10. Sarah Palin is a socialist who believes it's just fine that Alaska gets much more federal money per person than any other state.

11. Sarah Palin fought for pork earmarks even in light of the above and after pretending that she "stopped" the infamous bridge to nowhere.

I believe it's just fine if those wise folks in AK keep electing trash like Ted Stevens and Don Young and naive hockey moms like Sarah. But I do not want a goofball like Sarah Palin anywhere near a national office in Washington that might allow a simpleton to affect our nation. The past eight years of that is enough!
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