Townhall.com, Where Your Opinion Counts
Talk Radio:   Bill Bennett   Mike Gallagher   Dennis Prager   Michael Medved   Hugh Hewitt   
BREAKING NEWS  LeftArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican   RightArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican  
Columns, funnies & more in your inbox!
  • Check the boxes and send us your email address to receveive your free newsletter
  • Your daily must-read of conservative columns, cartoons and news. Coulter, Sowell, Krauthammer and more.
  • Townhall.com’s weekly inside scoop on what’s happening behind the scenes in the world of politics. When news breaks, we report.
  • Signup to receive the latest daily Townhall cartoons
Tuesday, January 09, 2007
Joel Mowbray :: Townhall.com Columnist
How Sandy Berger Stole State Secrets, Destroyed Evidence & Got Off
by Joel Mowbray
Vote on It:
Average Vote:
[+] Text [-]
 
Poll
Will the Dems' health care Christmas Present to America be an improvement or detriment to our health care system?


With the release of an internal investigation last week, we now know that former National Security Advisor Sandy Berger not only knowingly flouted laws for handling classified documents, but he also went to incredible lengths to cover his tracks and thwart investigators.

While Berger's "punishment" was a pittance of a fine, former Pentagon analyst Larry Franklin has been financially ruined and sentenced to 12 and a half years for passing along far less-classified information to unauthorized third parties.

Unfortunately, disproportionate justice is inherent to the legal system. The written playbook might be the same for various cases, but different judges and different dynamics can lead to dramatically disparate results.

But what excuse is there for the wildly different media coverage of the two cases, both of which came to public attention in the summer of 2004?

Given the nature of each man's actions and the starkly different status each enjoyed in the public eye, the media actually was justified in providing dissimilar coverage. Only the press got it exactly wrong.

One man verbally disclosed classified information devoid of sources or methods. The other snuck five different versions of a top-secret document out of a secure facility.

One was a low-level career bureaucrat, while the other was just a few years removed from being the president's national security advisor. One man cooperated with authorities and didn't even retain a lawyer before being interrogated, while the other lied to investigators and then intentionally destroyed evidence.

While conservative news outlets reveled in the Berger story, the mainstream media was at best blasé. Of all the articles about Berger's case -- from the revelation that he was the subject of an inquiry through the recent release of the National Archives inspector general's report -- only one made it to the front page of either The Washington Post or the New York Times. Coverage of Franklin's case, however, earned that distinction more than a half-dozen times.

The Franklin affair started out with a bang. Over seven days, starting in late August 2004, The Washington Post published six distinct articles, three of which landed on the front page. It was a sizzling story. Someone who worked in the Pentagon seen by the media as too pro-Israel was suspected of passing national-security secrets to the Jewish state. The Post even implied that five others -- all Jews with "strong ties to Israel" -- might also be spies.

In the end, the FBI's full-court press only netted one conviction of a government official. Franklin plea-bargained to three counts, including passing classified information to an Israeli government official and two men at pro-Israel lobby AIPAC. (The trial of Steven Rosen and Keith Weissman is slated to begin by the spring.)

According to someone with intimate knowledge of the leaked draft presidential directive, the document contained no sources and no methods. It had no sensitive material of any kind. It was nothing more than a policy paper -- just a few pages that resembled an opinion-editorial -- advocating tougher diplomacy, not war, in dealing with Iran.

Reporters at The Post and the New York Times worked overtime to find new angles in the Franklin case, and that effort yielded considerable ink. On the Berger case, though, the mega newspapers simply reported stories as information came out. There was no digging, no investigative passion. Even the disclosure of the inspector general's report only happened because of a freedom of information request filed by the Associated Press.

The mainstream media's palpable disinterest in the Berger case is hardly justified. Many questions remain unanswered. Of the few explanations Berger and his defenders have actually provided, none passes the laugh test.

Berger claimed in court last year that smuggling classified documents out of the National Archives was about "personal convenience," but the inspector general report states that he walked out of the building and down the street, found a construction site, looked to see if the coast was clear, then slid behind a fence and hid the documents under a trailer.

Which part of that elaborate procedure was "convenient"?

According to the New York Times story last April following Berger's guilty plea, "Associates attributed the episode to fatigue and poor judgment." While lying to authorities is poor judgment, it is also illegal. And how exactly did fatigue drive Berger to use his scissors to shred three versions of the top-secret document?

Despite the report's devastating blow to Berger's excuse machine, it was buried. The Post dumped it on page 7, and the New York Times exiled it to page 36.

Reflecting -- or perhaps because of -- the respective media attention is the justice meted out to each man. President Clinton's national security adviser will not see the inside of a jail cell. His $50,000 fine sounds big, but it's roughly equivalent to a few weeks out of his princely salary. Meanwhile, Franklin has lost half his pension and was given a stiffer sentence than several Islamic terrorists convicted in the very same courthouse.

Just don't expect the Post or the Times to point that out.

Share:
Vote on It:
Average Vote:
 
About The Author

Joel Mowbray, who got his start with Townhall.com, is an award-winning investigative journalist, nationally-syndicated columnist and author of Dangerous Diplomacy: How the State Department Threatens America's Security.

Be the first to read Joel Mowbray's column. Sign up today and receive Townhall.com delivered each morning to your inbox.

Equality in our system of justice
Let's see - Scooter Libby is fighting for his life in a federal court for not remembering a conversation that had nothing to do with anything. At the same time, Sandy Berger steals official documents from the National Archive and destroys them and gets a slap on the wrist. Couldn't be their political affiliations had anything to do with it could it?

The Liberal Bias Extends Beyond The MSM
The Courts are filled with Leftie Losers who are not ashamed to show exactly how much they want to benefit other Lefties.

This will never change until conservatives make an effort to take back the courts, the schools, the news outlets, the entertainment industry, the book publishing companies, and every other institution that has been hijacked by the activist Left.

What we need is a good old fashioned revival!

ANY information given to Israel
By ANYONE is a security position spells J A I L

That includes the time of day and weather.


fight back
We will never get equal justice with candidates like McCain, Giuliani and Romney. These are go along to get along career politicians who will say nothing about the Berger incident. Where were Hastert and Frist when this happened? In the background not saying a thing, do you think the heads of the Democrat party would have been silent had this been a Republican committing treason? We need a communicator who is not afraid to rankle the opposition and take on the MSM.

For just-a-thought
It is doubtful that Berger would give info to Israel (you're thinking "Berger is a Jew"--remember, so was Lazar Kaganovich), more likely to PRC (Red China) for whom his boss appears to have been a spy!

Mountain Rose
What we NEED in the beltway is a good old-fashioned HORSEWHIPPING followed by a Hot tar and feathering of these bums.

We believe in facts
while the left relies on propaganda. We cannot win if the facts are never revealed, or revealed through a partisan prism.

As Don Hewitt at CBS told Clinton before a televised interview in the '92 campaign: "I can make you"...and the MSM not only made him, they continue to protect him.

But heaven help you if you are a Republican, especially a Bush Rep. Has there EVER been a 60 MINUTES segment that has not been unfavorable to this administration? (Perhaps the Condi Rice piece was benign). Has there ever been a segment favorable to Bush (Rx drug giveaway, robust economy, 911 aftermath)?

I think the MSM should be prosecuted for conspiracy.


a few questions
Isn't it the federal government who is prosecuting both of these cases?

If so, why would a Republican led Fed give an excesive penalty to a Republican, while allowing a Democrat to get off easy? It doesn't make any sense.

Could it be that Mr. Mowbray is making Mr. Franklin's offense sound more innocent then it really is, while making Mr. Berger's offense sound more menacing than it really is?

And why is it that Republicans get soooo excited over the Berger case, and the fact that Clinton lied, but then totally dismiss the fact that Scooter Libby lied repeatedly to federal investigators about the Plame affair?

Phylo out.

Blatent Hypocrisy Just Doesnt Matter
The fact that Burglar skated is no surprise. What is surprising is now the Dems want to claim the high moral ground with ethics reform. Who are they trying to kid?? Are they going to call their reform measure the "Do as I say, not as I do" act?

The Net of Justice

O, net of justice with mesh so fine,
No minnow escapes thy seep of twine;

O, net with such a lengthy train,,
No errant child escapes thy strain;

O, net with reach so long, so vast,
Ne'er tiniest soul escapes thy cast;

O, net with such a power pull,
Each haul of krill is over full;

O, wondrous net of mystery,
Why, only whales escape from thee!

Phylo Se Fizer
Once again you've posted something so fugging stupid that I have to respond to it. Normally, I ignore your bloviations.

Sandy Berger committed several FELONIES! Mishandling Classified Material is a FEDERAL offense covered in several different areas. From Executive Orders (those pesky laws signed by the PRESIDENT OF THE USA!) to numerous publications for Federal agencies, DoD, and Defense Contractors.

His removal of classified documents from the Nat Archives ALONE is a major felony. His unlawful destruction is yet ANOTHER. His hiding them under a construction trailer is ANOTHER.

You see, I WORK with this stuff on a DAILY basis and have since 1992 and when numbskulls like YOU trivialize what morons like Berger did, it pizzes me off.

BTW, from 1992-1995, while being a prisoner chaser as a collateral duty, I took two idiots to the brig for mishandling of classified material. BOTH convicted at a General Courts-Martial.

Do let me know if you need me to spoon-feed you the EO's and other pubs.


Bush went easy on SB
BIGbelly, I don't disagree with you that the Clintons wield enough power to call off the MSM dogs (I'm convinced that's how Ken Starr and Robert Ray could spend 50 million plus and still not bring the Clintons to justice).

But Bush and his Justice Department have to be scolded for going easy on Berger as well. They wanted his sentenced reduced for gosh sakes!

GW seems terrified of the political fallout from doing the right thing, which would be making sure this slimeball winds up behind bars in an orange jumpsuit.

Hey Gunny
Did you get this exceited over Scooter Libby?

And why do you suppose Franklin agreed to a plea bargain?

Phylo out.

another question for Gunny
Why do you think the Bush administration went easy on Berger? But was tough on Franklin?

Could it be that the prosecuted each case as they saw fit, and that you're making some false assumptions about the severity of Berger's case relative to the severity of Franklin's case. Are you soooo positive that you know EVERYTHING there is to know about this case?

Phylo out.

Berger should be in jail
I was furious when they revoked his security clearance for 3 years. ONLY THREE YEARS!!! It is an absolute disgrace, he should serve time and never be elligible for a security clearance, civil service, or lobbying position again. Maybe they should use scrutiny for clearances like they did for the lawyers that wanted to investigate the warrantless wiretapping program, they just didn't give them any. That was a very Soviet thing to do. But it is a shame that people who try to investigate out and out lawbreaking by this administration can't get a clearance but Sandy Berger can in three years. This government is a joke.

Also this paragraph jumped out at me:

"According to someone with intimate knowledge of the leaked draft presidential directive, the document contained no sources and no methods. It had no sensitive material of any kind. It was nothing more than a policy paper -- just a few pages that resembled an opinion-editorial -- advocating tougher diplomacy, not war, in dealing with Iran."

Should I take this paragraph seriously? Do we need to get Michelle Malkin to investigate the source? Is it Richard Perle? Is it Curveball? How can I take this as a possible fact? The way this is played down in the paragraph shows your bias, people went to jail for an editorial? Bullsh!t, either you are lying or your source is lying. I don't buy it sir.

Phlyo
So Libby's been convicted already?

And here I thought we were INNOCENT until proven guilty.

How silly of me.

If Libby's guilty, let him burn as well but it appears that Plame's covert status, if she ever had one, was burned long ago.

You see Phylo, what you libs can't understand is that we on the right WANT criminals punished.

We WANTED Cunningham's head on a plate.

You libs circle the wagon around your criminals, like Freezer Money Jefferson and reelect others like Crackhead Mayor Barry! We banish scum like Foley while the Left applaudes perverts like Studds.

Huge whopping difference.

The Lack of Respect for Justice
The Berger case is yet another example of justice denied (i.e., punishment does not fit the crime). Almost every week a story somewhere in our country surfaces where a judicial decision at the Federal or State level is uncomprehensible.
This pattern is leading to a disrespect for the institutions of law which is dangerous for our republican form of government.
All of us, regardless of our political leanings, should be disturbed by the court decision in the Berger case...

MikraT
You are right on the money.

I have no earthly idea why Bush continues to play nicey-nice with the socialists. He should have fired ANYONE remotely connected with Velcro-Fly Clinton in 2001 and put LOYAL Americans in their place. Why he thought that he could play bipartisan politics with the socialists, who use Stalinist and Leninist tactics to force their agenda on us is beyond me.

Berger Should Be In Jail
But that shouldn't minimize Franklin's crimes.


My take on Bush's Justice Dept going easy on Berger is that he has incriminating evidence about the 9/11 attacks that would be devastating to both the Clintons and Bushes, and likely many other powerful people.

Or do you folks really think the 9/11 commission was a complete wrap? The less anything 9/11 related reaches a coutroom the better for both parties.

If I have one major complaint with Bush
it is that he thinks his overtures of collegiality will be reciprocated by the dems. Whether it is acquiescing on budget busting Rx drugs and Katrina mollifications or playing softball with the unfaithful in his own party, or ignoring the border issues, Bush seems completely tone deaf to the importance of being politically feared.

Going easy on Berger, failing to exploit Clinton's terrorism failures (911 commission findings), failing to repudiate the Iraq Surrender Report, nominating the vapid Harriet Meyers to the Court, and failing to pursue the Plames are landmarks in his cluelessness about political outcomes. Each one has weakened his image and proven to emboldened his political enemies to reach further.

Now he wonders how his Presidency is unravellinng.

Gunny G
>We WANTED Cunningham's head on a plate.<

Conservatives had nothing to do with exposing Cunningham as a traitor. If not for a reporter at the San Diego Union, he might still be subverting the defense appropriations process.


Just protecting their boss
Bush knows that Berger was just trying to protect his boss and Bush will need similar assistance over the coming months and years. Maybe the next administration will show similar leniency to his flunkies in their prosecutions. I am sure Rove and others are busy backing and filling this very moment in light of the pending investigations in congress.

Relax...
...the Berger case was only about sex.He tried to screw the American people.(Yo,it worked for his boss!)

utahnotmormon
Right. And AFTER he was exposed, did the GOP rush to provide cover and concealment?

Another point is how the GOP treats racists.

Bush 41 gave David Duke the boot from the party after he was elected in Louisiana. The Dims not only provide cover for noted Grand Dragon of the KKK Senator Robert Byrd (D-WVa) they refer to him at a great statesman!

Of course the libs whine and mewl that a Virginia Senator MAY have used the "N" word like 25 years ago, they overlook the fact that Byrd was using in in 2003!

KIMBAT!
Don't look up folks, the guano dropper is flying by.

Kimmy...you forgot the word spew...But it's comforting to see that you're still obsessed with Bush. You still writing your love letters to him?

Nothing like unrequited love huh?

Dear President Bush,

A piece of advice.

H*LL hath no wrath like Kimbat scorned.

Friends in High Places

.....Joel...

.....When you are under the protection of Bill and Hill who have access to 800 FBI files to use as blackmail ...voila! Sandy Burglar gets a free pass and the MSM and the public don't really care ...

.....I would not be surprised to find out that the Clintons have a file on Bush41 and/or his friends and associates and that would explain why Bush43's Justice Department let Sandy Baby off the hook .....COLOSSUS

OH MY GOD!
SHE'S BACK! KIMBERLY IS BACK!

Baron has it right
The comparison to Libby is more appropriate than the comparison to Franklin.

Berger's crime was politically motivated. There is no reason to believe Berger wanted to give state secrets to foreign governments. It is far more likely that he was merely trying to whitewash the incompetence of the Clinton administration for the 9/11 Committee investigation. And since the 9/11 Committee was more interested in kissing Clinton's butt than blaming him anyway, Berger's actions had little or no effect on their report.

The Libby case is a more appropriate comparison, and it is here that that the MSM shows its incompetence and double standard. The "outing" of Valerie Plame was not even a crime, and it was actually committed by Colin Powell's chief of staff. Special Prosecutor Fitzpatrick learned this within days after starting his investigation but carried the investigation on for the full two years authorized. Libby's was a process crime, and it is indicative of what is wrong in DC when the investigation is not ended when the questions are answered but when the money runs out. And the person indicted is not the person who committed the act but the one who failed to serve a process that would already have concluded its business if the prosecutor understood that the process is supposed to serve the law instead of the other way around.

Berger's actions are just one more pebble on the mountainous pile of political corruption that defines Bill and Hillary Clinton.

And the hypocrisy of the left remains consistent in that they would screaming "cover-up" if any Republican did what Berger did and got off with a wrist slap.

If W was Reagan he would pardon Libby and charge Fitzpatrick with malfeasance. But alas, there was but one Reagan.

Sadly agree acceptreality
I think that Bush has confused personal Christianity with his job. I'm so saddened to see the loss of opportunities to be really tough when necessary. It's not compassion if you fail to excise cancerous tissue. Of course I am not privy to what happens behind the scenes, but the "turned other cheek," on Bush's part and attempts to be bi-partisan have left him at least partially decapitated. I grimaced so many times pulling the GOP trigger in the election, but for those who did not, now we are just beginning to see the results. My trust in the Dems to overplay their hand and let the loonies out of the closet is my fondest desire for 2008.

RE: Phylo
Point 1) The judge, not federal prosecutors, accepted Berger's plea.

Point 2) Libby didn't "repeatedly" lie. He failed to remember a conversation, then, after reviewing his notes, VOLUNTARILY went back to the special prosecutor to correct his testimony. If Libby had followed the Klinton Klux Klan playbook, he'd have never admitted his mistake, would have let the incorrect testimony stay in the record, and would have never been prosecuted. The Libby prosectution, as well as special prosecutor Fitzgerald's open admission that he knew that that there was no "outing" of a "covert CIA agent", and thus no crime, from day one is irrefutable proof that the entire Plame affair was nothing but a smear job by your sinister wing ilk.

Furthermore, that you excuse what amounts to high treason by Sandy Berger, while supporting the wrongful prosecution of Libby simply goes on to prove that you, like the rest of your buddies, don't care one bit about justice, and only care about the power you can abuse any time you're successful at duping the unwitting public into voting for your side.

Speaking of 'Plamegate'...
The New York Times, among other so-called "news" outlets, has written hundreds of thousands of words detailing how they think the Bush administration was responsible for "outing" Plame.

But in a little reported "friend of the court" brief submitted by the NYT and other "news" agencies on behalf of that journalist who was jailed for not telling the special prosecutor her source (which, by the way, was Iraq war OPPONENT Richard Armitage, NOT a member of the "vast right wing neo-con conspiracy" that the MSM, to this very day, wants you to believe), they specifically argue that no crime had been committed.

Can anyone RATIONALLY argue that the MSM's public demonization, while privately admitting that there is no reason to demonize anyone is NOT the clearest evidence of overt bias?

acceptreality has it nailed
I too believe that GW purposely takes it easy on ex-executive branch players so that his overtures of collegiality will be reciprocated by the dems. The executive branch equivalent of the Senate country club atmosphere. Boy, is he in for a surprise. When GW leaves office, he is going to age exponentially as he fights the torrent of legal charges heaped on him (this was probably advise from appy Bush).

He should take some advise from his foreign affairs doctrines - appeasement does not work when you're dealing with heathens without a conscience. These actions merely embolden the dems who will ultimately make him seem (and be) politically impotent.

As far as Berger's whitewash
We need to fully investigate the whitewash concerning 9/11. Berger took docs to cover up Clinton's incompetency. Zelikow was made executive director of the 9/11 commission, he is close with Condi Rice, they wrote a book together. Gorelick was on the commission and covered up incompetence and further whitewashed Clinton's negligence. Bush and Cheney refused to testify alone and under oathe, that is a disgrace. Lee Hamilton is a democrat who couldn't find wrongdoing if it hit him in the face. Kerrey has a different sort of Franklin baggage with his dealings in Omaha. Almost everyone in the 9/11 commission has a history of coverups or whitewashes. How can we possibly take these criminal insiders seriously? There was a coverup and everyone must be investigated UNDER OATHE. We must get to the root of what they were covering up and why.

Phylo
Anyone who has ever worked with classified information knows that what Berger did was way worse than what Franklin did.

You are totally out of your depth here.

beowulfe
Exactly.

The leftdolts have been crowing about frog-marching first Rove, then Cheney, then Rove again, then Cheney, and now Libby over a non-issue like Plame.

If she was EVER covert in the first place, I'll vote for Der Furher Hitlary in 2008! From what I've heard in the community and read, she was nothing more than a desk weenie with credentials. HUGE DIFFERENCE from a actual covert spy.

You don't get it people
Bush is not trying to be nice, this is how oligarchies work, they sweat the small stuff and cover up the big stuff. It is in the best interest of all the involved parties, except the people. Look at the media, all the stuff they can hammer Bush on and what was the most heated exchange in the Whitehouse Press Room? It was David Gregory arguing over Cheney's handling of lawyer shooting!?! Sweat the small stuff because if you dig too deep and fight the government's criminal acts, they will simply pull media consolidation or take it away from those who investigate or you will be suicided. Now they are trying to control the internet, Net Neutrality is a must if we are ever to have a free media, the MSM doesn't investigate anything of importance deeply. Get your heads out of your collective @sses. People seriously need to wake up and look at the larger picture.

Slow news day?
What I can't figure out is "who cares"?

Berger has already been tried. Unless double jeopardy is going to be applied then case closed.

This story is 2 years old and not compelling to the public at large. Berger is fat and ugly, whereas Plame was a good looking spy with a story of wisps of James Bond intrigue. One can easily imagine the Plame story becoming a movie. Sandy Berger a movie? Who wants to see a fat man stuffing folders in his pants. Yeah right. Its not hard to understand why one gets the public's attention and the other not.

Berger's case is complicated, too complicated for the public to stay with. So I can't help but ask the question, "who cares"? This story has been dead for awhile now and Town Hall is resurrecting it. Why?

I can only think of two motives for pushing this story again after it died.

1.) Perculate back into the mainstream. The odds of that happening are none, so that can't be it.

2.) Discredit the Democrats. I find it hard to believe that any right-wing reader of Town Hall has credit for any Democrat with which to discredit. The right-wingers on this site are not anything if not fanatics in their everything liberal is evil. What's left to discredit?

Must be a slow news day. Rather than focus on Sandy Berger, how 'bout focusing on 2007?

Town Hall needs to shift gears. Like, why, for example, did the Republican Congress put time limits on Bush's tax cuts? Now that the Democrats are in power this left a huge door open?

Republicans will always have more sway over fellow Republicans than Democrats. So after losing the election a little self-introspection might be in order. I would much rather read an investigative piece into why the Republican Congress put time limits on the tax cuts than to read some rehash about a closed case for an irrelevant has been who has no potential to ever be anything ever again. So what he got off? O.J. Simpson got off too?

How 'bout the immigration debate? There are so many more important issues to discuss than Sandy Berger.



GunnyG
What we really need is a civil war where constitutionalists take the USA back for the Communists, Nazis & various other socialist factions.

take the USA back FROM the Communists
(bad keying is no excuse)

SizzleLean, GWB
Let's not forget that Bush failed to recognize that the 911 Commission was being stacked with Clinton bodyguards. He should have balanced those whitewashers with more hardliners from the Rep side of the aisle, rather than easygoing, collegial pushovers. The report would have revealed the truth about all events leading up to the attack, not just the 'shared blame' pablum that was the inevitable outcome.

That Jamie Gorelick was allowed to be a commissioner and not a hostile witness is reprehesible. Her inclusion in the commission should have been a clear indicator of the direction this commission was heading. Again, shame on Bush for not recognizing and thwarting the propaganda machine before it was populated with political insiders.

What a Treat!
Phylo & Kimberly in the same thread!

Kimberly: "Why, you'd think the guy was responsible for over 3000 US troop deaths in Iraq!"

Primus54: "Nope, Kimberly. More likely he was responsible for destroying evidence that might have shown Clinton's incompetence lead to 3,000 innocents deaths on 9/11."

-----------------

Phylo: "Isn't it the federal government who is prosecuting both of these cases? If so, why would a Republican led Fed give an excesive penalty to a Republican, while allowing a Democrat to get off easy? It doesn't make any sense."

Primus54: "You are assumimg that every U.S. prosecutor is a Republican and supporter of the administration. Or that prosecutors have to look at the judge they draw in each case and make an informed opinion about what they can expect from said judge. You aren't suggesting every judge in the judiciary is an administrative supporter are you?

Phylo, we don't often agree but you often do make an effort to support your opinions.

Today's response was a real stretch, partner. The main subject here is Sandy Berger, and you AND I, as fellow Americans, should both want to see the book thrown at this guy... Dem or Rep.

response to beowolf
beowolf: Libby didn't "repeatedly" lie. He failed to remember a conversation, then, after reviewing his notes, VOLUNTARILY went back to the special prosecutor to correct his testimony.

Phylo: This is from CNN's website the day of the indictment:

"Libby resigned Friday after a federal grand jury indicted him on five charges related to the leak probe: one count of obstruction of justice, two counts of perjury and two counts of making false statements."

Two counts of perjury, and two counts of false statements? Sounds like "repeatedly" to me.

And the CIA has said that Valerie Plame was undercover. Who are you going to believe? Lying right wing shock jocks?, or the CIA in the matter of whether or not a person working for the CIA was undercover or not?

Phylo out.

Kimberly
" Kimberly writes:
Tuesday, January, 09, 2007 10:22 AM

Oh NO!
How awful! How SCANDOLOUS!!

Why, you'd think the guy was responsible for over 3000 US troop deaths in Iraq!"

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Yeah, I hated that Saddam guy too.


Can't we all agree that Nifong
should have prosecuted Berger?

Primus54
Well said. And a great reply to two flaming moonbats.

But then again the libs were never very good at prosecuting traitors.

They let Hanoi Jane walk because she was famous eventhough she got men tortured for her actions.

They let Hanoi John Fonda-Kerry walk after HIS private negotiations with the Commies at the Paris Peace talks. I mean, WTF, it's just a violation of the US Code!

They let Ramsey Clark walk after HE went to Hanoi and then came back to bash the USA.

It's too close to lunch for me to continue, my point is made.

response to Primus
Primus54: You are assumimg that every U.S. prosecutor is a Republican and supporter of the administration. Or that prosecutors have to look at the judge they draw in each case and make an informed opinion about what they can expect from said judge. You aren't suggesting every judge in the judiciary is an administrative supporter are you?

Is it not the USAG Alberto Gonzales who leads the prosecution of such cases? Do you suppose he has any say at all in whether or not to prosecute and the severity of the punishment meted out?

If so, could it be that Bush also has a say in such matters?

Phylo out.

acceptreality
If Nifong prosecuted him Berger would have walked, scot-free.

response to James
Enlighten me, oh wise and knowledgable one of all things classified. How is it that what Berger did is soooooo much worse than passing secrets on to foriegn governments.

Phylo out.

acceptreality
Zelikow, a Republican, was the strongest member on the commission, he was in charge of staffing and what the staff would be directed to research. This was not just a one way coverup, this was a bipartisan whitewash and a true investigation would most likely destroy both parties. That was my point. The 9/11 commission was lax on the Republicans and Democrats, who worked together to screw the American people and protect their perpetual oligarchy.

what we need is...
a citizen's Star Chamber.

Permanently cleaning house of vermin like Berger and others like him would go a long way to reminding for whom these idiots work.

If there is any attempt to "take back the country" from the oligarchs, I am glad one side has the skill set to make it happen and the other does not.

Phylo
CIA undercover agent on US soil?
CNN didn't dig into that one.

Plame's covert status
All of you fools who think you KNOW that Valerie Plame was NOT covert need to read the following which I got from the Free Republic. It was posted on Oct 5th 2006 by someone named Fedora, who, from what I can tell of his posts about John Kerry, is a rabid right winger.

4. Was Plame covert?

As the above comments on Question 3 indicate, the data uncovered by researchers to date does not seem to provide sufficient information to state definitively whether or not Plame was covert. However the question would seem easy enough to resolve if relevant CIA organizational charts and/or internal documents were made available to the public. What was the relationship between WINPAC, CPD, and other areas of the DCI and CIA? Who was Plame’s supervisor, and who did they answer to within the CIA hierarchy? What were Plame’s actual duties? Having this type of information would be a big step towards more definitive answers.


In other words, even this guy can't bring himself to say that she was or was not covert. But idiots like beowolf KNOW she wasn't covert. There's a big difference between KNOWING and BELIEVING beowolf.

Phylo out

Phylo
I work in the intel community.

I know people in the intel community.

She was about as covert as CIA spy as Barney Frank is being a fruit.

I noticed that you resorted to Liberal tactic #21 by using insults.

tsk tsk tsk old boy.

Phylo
regardless of the fact that at one time she was undercover, her five years removed from that job no longer afforded her the protection an undercover agent receives.

but you knew that didn't you?

Response to Phylo:

Phylo: "Is it not the USAG Alberto Gonzales who leads the prosecution of such cases? Do you suppose he has any say at all in whether or not to prosecute and the severity of the punishment meted out? If so, could it be that Bush also has a say in such matters?"

The answer to all three questions is yes. But that doesn't invalidate the point about the judges who are drawn to hear the cases.

Nor does it change the fact that you and I could agree that the U.S. did not get the justice it deserved in Berger's case. He should be barred from any access to government secrets for life. Hellsbells, they should probably have banned him from stepping foot inside the D.C. Beltway!!

Plame as spy?


The Plame investigation was 100% a Republican affair.

If it was so clear, as some of you suggest, that Plame was not a spy then please explain why did George Bush get so upset about it, so upset to the tune of starting an investigation with a special prosecutor?

Realize, Bush did not appoint a special prosecutor for the NYT when the NYT leaked the wiretapping intel.

Obviously Bush felt more strongly about the Plame leak then the NYT leak.

Those who would claim that Plame is not covert need to explain why would it be a leak in Bush's eyes and not yours? More importantly, the claim that Plame was not convert when Bush called her status a leak will never fly in the mainstream public.

But the real point is that the leak resulted in a Republican investigation by Republicans on behalf of a Republican President.

If the case for Plame being covert were so clear cut that she was not covert then one has to start asking questions about Bush. Why would Bush call it a "leak" and why would Bush be so concerned, more so than the NYT leaks, so as to appoint a special prosecutor?


spion
Phylo is the King of Cherry Pickers when it comes to facts.

Or maybe it's the King of Picking Fly S**t out of Pepper for his incredible nit-picking abilities.

Plame, Burgler, Gorelick, et al

I think that acceptreality did nail it. As much as I support GWB and appreciate that he has the spine that Slick Willie lacks, he really does seem to be tone-deaf politically.

It's a shame; he'd have Reagan-like popularity numbers if he stood up to the crap that gets tossed his way.

Gunny's right, too. The President should have absolutely cleaned house when he first arrived. It's not as if his press coverage could have been less favorable had he stacked the deck with loyal staff.

Sheesh.

gunny
For someone who works in the itel community, you show a great lack of thought in this situation. If the CIA said Plame was covert, her outing ruined her value. Not only that, any CONTACT she had with any FOREIGN OFFICIAL will now be viewed by that government as suspicious and put those foreign officials' safety in danger, if not their lives. It will further damage any intel operatives because no one will want to talk to americans because of the plame situation. Come on Gunny, your so know so much... what has happened to her contacts?


response to Gunny and spion
Cherry picking? I went to a radical right wing source for that information knowing that you wouldn't accept anything from CNN or the Washinton Post. And I read the whole piece. I posted the summary of the piece totally unedited. Go look at yourself. And what I found is that even those guys don't support your unquestioned assumption that she wasn't covert.

Give it up Gunny, the facts do not support your conclusion.

And who is it that is resulting to insults Gunny?

And spion, I'm not just throwing out wild assertions like you. I'm actually looking at the record and supporting my assertion with what you would concede are reliable sources.

Phylo out

Undercover?
It is impossible to be an undercover CIA agent when you commute daily to CIA headquarters in Langley, VA.

Phylo out there

Ham Berger
GOP President, or not, the Justice dept,as well as other national departments of government, are so overrun with leftists, and far leftists, that Clinton's people are always going to be protected.

Donaldd
As for Rove revealing secrets....huh? How about Clinton directing Loral Company to sell missile guidance packages and their technology to the Chinese at a time that the Chinese ballistic missile force couldn't hit the broad side of the Pacific? Now they can pinpoint their targets in the US.

Paulie
True enough. There would have been about a thousand less leaks to the NY Slimes if he'd have fired the libscum.

response to Primus
I think Berger should've been prosecuted but I don't know enough about the case to say much more than that. And I feel the same way about Franklin.

I was responding to Molbray's column because he seems to be so certain that something unfair happened but he doesn't seem to want to get into much detail about the facts of each case. His only evidence of a bias seems to be that one guy got a harsher sentence than the other. Is it possible that maybe, just maybe, he deserved a harsher sentence?

I don't know the answer to the question. I'm only raising it as a possiblity.

And besides, the fact that Franklin agreed to a plea bargain seems to dramatically undermine his assertion. All I asked in my original post was: Was it really so unfair, or is Molbray intentionally not telling us the whole story so he can whip up some fres Republican outrage?

Phylo out,

The Crawfish
No no Crawfish, Joe stuffed her in the trunk for the commute and then she low-crawled her way into the building.

Super-dooper ultra-secret stealth mode!

Berger and Franklin
Isn't it possible the difference between the two is that one gave documents to a foreign government without authorization and the other removed documents without authorization? Is that so hard to understand?

Is it possible that the Post and Times don't emphasize the story because it pales in comparison to the real issues of the day?

Get a grip, folks.

ET

response to the crawfish
Unlike you crawfish, I don't like to running off with baseless assumptions. I went to the Free Republic (a far right publication) to get their take on it and I found that not even those guys can say with any degree of certainty whether or not PLame was undercover.

Now, if you can find some evidence that proves otherwise, let's see it. Until then, all you have is your own beliefs, which don't carry a lot of weight with me.

Phylo out.

ET opines
"Is it possible that the Post and Times don't emphasize the story because it pales in comparison to the real issues of the day?"

In a word... No.

I wonder how many times Britney Spears or Rosie O'Donnell received space in the Post & Times during the same time period?

Yeah, those are the "real issues" of the day!

Get a grip, ET.

Primus54
NO no, it's who's gonna win on American Idol and the effort to ban transfat on a global scale!

THOSE are real issue.

so, Phylo,
are you saying you did not know the protection to undercover agents had expired for Plame?

what wild assertions have I made, buddy boy?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Semper Fi, Gunny.

Has anyone pointed out Sandy Burglar
got only three years SUSPENSION OF SECURITY CLEARANCE for stealing National secrets, while two Border Guards got 11 and 12 YEARS IN PRISON for defending their country.

The contrast is appaling.

I have been watching the Tolkein trilogy in context, (he based it on the ancient tales) and it is striking how the enemy grew strong as the kings of men abandoned the defense of their people.

It hardly seems conceivable that the leaders of our country would be so blinded to the harm that they do, but here it is, plain for all who have eyes to see.

Instead of listening to the will of the people, they listen to the loud voices of the agitators, who only seek to destroy our country.

If our government fails in its duty to the soverignty of our nation, and fails to protect us from criminals and traitors, eventually they will see the people taking the law into their own hands.

After all, this is the only purpose for government, to maintain the rule of law, prevent vigilantism, and overcome anarchy.

The actions of our curent government encourage the citizens to defend themselves by any means possible, and unless they want to see the land return to chaos, they should start behaving according to their oath, to defend the country "against all enemies, forign and domestic!"

BHC
She was known to be a CIA agent by both the Soviets and Cuban's before "the CIA itself "inadvertently" compromised Plame by not taking appropriate measures to safeguard classified documents that the Agency routed to the Swiss embassy in Havana. In a Washington Times article.

spion
you're only gonna get a spin job from Phylo.

I've reads dozens of posts where TH'ers have pinned his ears back. I usually don't reply to him, Left dAngle, Kimbat, etc.

I don't like wasting key strokes on kooks. It's like trying to teach a pig to type. You get dirty, you get pizzed off, and the pig likes it.

Semp Fi.

In another light
I just noticed all of the moonbats surfing in, Phylo, Donalddd, Kimbat, Left dAngle, etc, etc, and then saw that it is 1300 EST.

Time for them to have gotten up, washed (maybe), had their granola and Pierre, smoked a joint or two, and then came to visit us.

How quaint.

Outrageous.
Were Clinton left overs in charge of prosecuting this or what? This is a no-brainer. His intent is as clear as the lens that caught him sticking papers under a construction trailer! This one absolutely burns me up. And where is good ol' Sandy Berger? Bouncing around Washington hiding classified documents like the Easter bunny hides eggs? It's insulting to the American people.

phylo and donaldd
phylo: I don't make baseless assumptions. If you drive in the front gate of Langley, you are under surveillance by multiple foreign services and usually photographed by them. Undercover operatives don't do that.
Donaldd: Most of the stink involving the Chinese and missile guidance technology came out in 1998. The MSM blew off the guidance technology angle of the story and focused instead on the link between the technology transfer and possible illegal campaign donations to the Clintons and other Dim-ocrats in the 1996 campaigns.

Sandy Berger's butt
should be in jail along with certain people from the NYSlime, and those who handed over classified information. Our government apparently sees no need to prosecute traitors in this country. I imagine that's because the whole lot of them in DC are traitorous. When was the last time our representatives have paid any attention to the Constitution?
With illegals storming our country, people advocating we make nice with our Islamic enemies, I'm beginning to wonder if any average citizens have any say whatsoever. We are being represented by no one as far as I can see.


Ya know Kimmy

"Oh NO!
How awful! How SCANDOLOUS!!

Why, you'd think the guy was responsible for over 3000 US troop deaths in Iraq!"

If he was covering for Bubba, you might actually have a valid point.

First time for everything.

Donaldd obviously missed..
Donaldd writes:

"...Rove and Company revealing state secrets, Plame and CIA front company, should be charged under the same law as Franklin. ..."

Donaldd obviously missed the news that Richard Armitage was the leaker. That came out how many months ago?

Mountain Rose
You're absolutely right. Bureaucrats and low-level employees can expect to have the book thrown at them or their employment taken away from them or both.
Political appointees with friends in high places get a slap on the wrist, particularly if they have a "D" after their name.
Notice how this report wasn't issued until the new congress was to open, when the Bushes could be assured it would be drowned out in favor of Nancy Pelosi's grandkids.
For those who still don't understand why the justice is so unequal here, Mr. Mowbray has one sentence that says it all:

"One was a low-level career bureaucrat, while the other was just a few years removed from being the president's national security advisor."

Case closed.

Franklin's motives?
I had a brief acquaintance with Larry Franklin, but I learned anough about him in that acquaintance to believe that anything he did, he did because he thought it was best for America. He unabashedly loves his country. In terms of why he plea-bargained ... he's got a sick wife and 5 children at home. My guess is that he didn't want to drag it out for their sakes, and wanted to shorten his time away from them. There was nothing "in it for him" in terms of monetary gain or increase in stature or influence. I'm sure his motives for helping Israel had to do with strengthening our allies to strengthen our own country.

Sandy Burglar's CYA??? Not so much ...

Kimberly, with a few keystrokes..
...exonerates every terrorist who ever built a roadside bomb.

Kimberly writes:

"Oh NO!
How awful! How SCANDOLOUS!!

Why, you'd think the guy was responsible for over 3000 US troop deaths in Iraq!"

Yes, of course. It would be silly to hold the murderers themselves accountable for their murders. Clearly, our troops must have spontaneously exploded because Bush placed them in Iraq.

Republicans do it, too
Maybe in 2008 everyone who is so offended by the justice meted out in these and many similar cases (Foley vs Jefferson comes to mind), consider voting out EACH and EVERY INCUMBENT that is on the ballot. It will take six years to wipe out the Senate (we're stuck with Kennedy for that long thanks to Bay Staters), but you have to start somewhere.
Neither party is blameless. And neither are we. We elected them in the first place and we refuse to turn anyone out who will give us more goodies.

response to spion
Your saying that Plame could not have been undercover because she was driving to Langely.

Well, that might be good enough for you, but the CIA said she was undercover and asked Novak not to print her name. Forgive me if I take the CIAs word for it over yours, buddy boy.

Phylo out.

It is a good thing that Berger did not
smoke in the archives. He would have gotten a life sentence.

Here here
Bahiabob:

I could not agree with you more. It's frustrating when you and I see what's going on and are infuriated, but for whatever reason(s), this Administration is content to let these kind of things go unchecked (heck, even unmentioned). That has been a real sore spot with me. "Can't we all just get along?" doesn't work in DC and you end up looking like an idiot if, in the name of congeniality, you let the fox stay and take a nap after he's eaten your chickens. I, too, blame this Administration for not pursuing this.

Bahiabob
Bingo!

THAT is exactly what Bush is guilty of...being too d*mn loyal for his own good.

ROFL Phylo
Phylo Se Fizer writes: Tuesday, January, 09, 2007 2:03 PM
response to spion
Your saying that Plame could not have been undercover because she was driving to Langely.

Well, that might be good enough for you, but the CIA said she was undercover and asked Novak not to print her name. Forgive me if I take the CIAs word for it over yours, buddy boy.

Phylo out.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.

Just where did I say that? Not on this thread. Not anywhere.

I think your reading and retention skills are suspect and by extension your thought process.

Just show me where I said anything about Langley or driving in and out of that gate, little boy.

The one sided view is laughable
The democrats are evil and sneeky politicians and the Republicans all say their prayers before they go to sleep and if they are ever investigated or thrown in jail they had nothing but the best intentions.

What kind of idiots are you people? Can you read what you type with a straight face?

tmcd1965 said that Franklin gave Israel documents because he thought it was best for America and he couldn't have done it because he has a sick wife and 5 kids. Give me a damn break. Save your bullsh!t for the mushrooms. Only sheep will defend one sides' criminals and condemn the others. THEY ARE ALL CRIMINALS. They work in different parties but they protect each other. It is just like a sparing partner, he half heartedly swings at the other guy, but he is not trying to hurt the other guy, he is actually trying to help him. The Republicans and the Democrats are nothing more than sparing partners for each other. Do you seriously think that if third parties had equal media coverage, got a chair in the debates, and weren't 70 million dollars poorer for Presidential campaigns that the two major parties would even exist. Do you think that these schmucks who lie every other sentence could compete with anyone if they did not have the money and the power.

It is simpletons like the many on this thread that are ruining America with their blind allegiance to their party. Wake the hell up. Our future depends on it.

GunnyG
Gunny G wrote:

"I noticed that you resorted to Liberal tactic #21 by using insults.

tsk tsk tsk old boy."


The following are various excerpts from the postings of the fabulous Gunny G:

9:51 "Once again you've posted something so fugging stupid that I have to respond to it. Normally, I ignore your bloviations."

10:06 "You libs circle the wagon around your criminals, like Freezer Money Jefferson and reelect others like Crackhead Mayor Barry! We banish scum like Foley while the Left applaudes perverts like Studds."

KIMBAT!
Don't look up folks, the guano dropper is flying by.

Kimmy...you forgot the word spew...But it's comforting to see that you're still obsessed with Bush. You still writing your love letters to him?

Nothing like unrequited love huh?

Dear President Bush,

A piece of advice.

H*LL hath no wrath like Kimbat scorned.

10:58 The leftdolts have been crowing about frog-marching first Rove, then Cheney, then Rove again, then Cheney, and now Libby over a non-issue like Plame.

If she was EVER covert in the first place, I'll vote for Der Furher Hitlary in 2008! From what I've heard in the community and read, she was nothing more than a desk weenie with credentials.

12:11 Phylo is the King of Cherry Pickers when it comes to facts.

Or maybe it's the King of Picking Fly S**t out of Pepper for his incredible nit-picking abilities.

12:34 There would have been about a thousand less leaks to the NY Slimes if he'd have fired the libscum.

1:00 you're only gonna get a spin job from Phylo.

I've reads dozens of posts where TH'ers have pinned his ears back. I usually don't reply to him, Left dAngle, Kimbat, etc.

I don't like wasting key strokes on kooks. It's like trying to teach a pig to type. You get dirty, you get pizzed off, and the pig likes it.


1:04 I just noticed all of the moonbats surfing in, Phylo, Donalddd, Kimbat, Left dAngle, etc, etc, and then saw that it is 1300 EST.

Time for them to have gotten up, washed (maybe), had their granola and Pierre, smoked a joint or two, and then came to visit us.

How quaint.



It seems to me that your posts are nothing but insults. Does that make you a liberal Gunny?

Phylo out.

Phylo
D*mn, Do I have a gift for wordsmithing or what!?

No Phylo, it makes me a conservative who is sick of liberals and is bound and determined to beat them at their own game. I gave up long ago trying to point out facts and use logic on your kind. I just got the same old crap (Bu$hitler, No war for Oil, etc) and now, I just play by your rules and beat you at your own game.

Sorry bout that.

Like the Dhimmicrats saying that they're gonna work FIVE DAYS A WEEK now that THEY are in power.

Guess what. The limp noodles took MONDAY OFF to watch football.

Didn't see any of THAT on the Lame Stream Media but saw it on Drudge.

What a WASTE of taxpayer's money and they just took over.

DRAIN THE SWAMP RED NANCY!

sorry spion
Apologies to spion. I meant Crawfish.

Phylo out.

gunnyG
I'm sure you believe you're winning whatever game you have going on your head, but, honestly, flinging juvenile insults is no way to persuade anyone.

Phylo out

Donaldd
I've been on TH for a long time and I don't see a lot of rubber-stamping.

Many of us, myself INCLUDED would LOVE to give each and every Congcritter a nice HOT tar bath followed by a feather roll. Then move on to the Senate. We DEMAND term-limits. NO UN. No pay for politicians, SS reform, etc, etc. Blind Obedience to the GOP? BS.

I surf into DU before I eat, and THERE is where I see the rubber-stamping, blindly following the talking points of their leaders and sugar daddy George Soreass. NO to all of the above reforms.

H*ll, you libs still think that Velcro-Fly Clinton is INNOCENT and that Gore/Hanoi John were robbed by Diebold! haha.

I'll make you a gentleman's bet.

You login into DU and post a comment praising Bush for one thing or another and in less than 3 minutes, you'll be banned and your post wiped.

Who rubber-stamps and who wants free speech? It ain't the posters here. Don't whine because we rip liberals apart for their ridiculous ideology or forcible redistribution of other people's money to the lazy and stupid.

Gunny's comments are not insults,
they are nothing more than conclusions based upon observations.

Why do you lefties bother on this site? It cannot be that you think you will change anyone's opinion by spewing propaganda based upon ideology. And vile as well.

I suspect you have such an abiding mean streak in your life that you feel compelled to infect others with the same affiction. It truly is hard to resist taunting you in teturn.

What I am certain of is that you do not have anything productive to do with your time, else you would not be fishing here. All your rants serve only to reinforce the commonly accepted opinion of lefties (bitter, useful idiots with unworkable ideas and no moral compass).

If any of you lefties ever conceded an obvious point(Clinton is a felon, Berger is a felon, Wm Jefferson is soon to be a felon) this site would have to shut down, owing to universal heart stoppage by us Reps.


acceptreality
Well said.

You are correct. Many of the lib posters sound exactly like my lib bro-in-law. Spouting the same nonsense and when you point it out to them, their eyes glaze over, several minutes pass by, and then, you hear..."it's all Bush's fault for:
__________________________(insert crisis here)

Donaldd
SO we need troops to stationed at home bases.

Most men and women wear the uniform to fight terrorism not to get a hand out from the government for higher education.

I am sad to inform you that Troops do die during home based training and on our streets and hiways. (I know two warriors that were killed on the road, I was part of the burial detail)

The world trade center, the Pentegon and flight 93 ended up being in "harms way".
Name a place that not in harm's way.

Donaldd
I would suggest Saddam is more to blame for the state of Iraq and our return there more than any American President. The fact that this president was willing to back up his threats with credible force has little to do with the results of Saddam's choices in resistance to what he was obligated to the UN and our country.

The first shot fired at an American aircraft after the signing of the cease fire (not truce, not surrender, not armistice, not peace treaty) was grounds for our return. The fact it took over ten years to directly address this violation was not the current president's fault.

Do you blame the football coach for sending in a player who breaks their leg during a play? You may be able to blame the coach for not preparing the player, but you cannot blame him for asking the player to do their job.

If you do not blame the coach, then you cannot blame Bush for those men and women who choose to serve and possibly to die.

If I had died during Desert Storm, I would have never blamed the president at the time. I made a choice I was very aware would change my life, do not belittle the serviceman by saying they did not know what lay ahead for them.

Donaldd
Too bad Velcro-Fly Bubba just didn't

TELL THE FRICKING TRUTH right from the start and SAVE us the 600M. Right?

BTW, Bubba was guilty of perjury and suborning perjury. He plea bargained to it as the 599,999,999 dollar was being spent.

The rest of your post was too moonbatty to reply to and not worth my keystrokes.

Today's winner
These are the finalists:

"The Courts are filled with Leftie Losers who are not ashamed to show exactly how much they want to benefit other Lefties."

The courts are biased.

"We need a communicator who is not afraid to rankle the opposition and take on the MSM."

The media strongarms the politicians, they are so pure, weak, and frail.

"Why he [Bush] thought that he could play bipartisan politics with the socialists, who use Stalinist and Leninist tactics to force their agenda on us is beyond me."

Them sneaky Dems are just too sharp.

".....I would not be surprised to find out that the Clintons have a file on Bush41 and/or his friends and associates and that would explain why Bush43's Justice Department let Sandy Baby off the hook .....COLOSSUS"

Clinton's evil strong arm is blackmailing the victim Bush

"Pres. Bush needs to fess up to the fact that not cleaning the scum liberal appointees out of his administration has led to a myriad of issues that have damaged or derailed the administration's efforts on many fronts."

The Bush Administration is not secretive enough...hahahhahahah...couldn't keep a straight face for that one. BRILLIANT!!!

"THAT is exactly what Bush is guilty of...being too d*mn loyal for his own good."

Nothing but good intentions, he is just so virtuous and loyal. I'd call it cronyism...but whatever.


Without further ado, the most retarded post of the day goes to...drumroll please:

"I had a brief acquaintance with Larry Franklin, but I learned anough about him in that acquaintance to believe that anything he did, he did because he thought it was best for America. He unabashedly loves his country. In terms of why he plea-bargained ... he's got a sick wife and 5 children at home. My guess is that he didn't want to drag it out for their sakes, and wanted to shorten his time away from them. There was nothing "in it for him" in terms of monetary gain or increase in stature or influence. I'm sure his motives for helping Israel had to do with strengthening our allies to strengthen our own country."

Larry Franklin gave intell to the Israeli spies because he's a damn good American. He loves this country so much he wants to share everything he knows about it to everybody. My guess is that this person's house is painted with lead paint and underneath power lines.

And the winner is:

"What kind of idiots are you people? Can you read what you type with a straight face?"

Courtesy of: "George W Bush"; January, 09, 2007 2:17 PM

phylo and Plame
remember that it is the CIA's job to lie about who their undercover operatives are

Donaldd
So what is your solution? Or do you just want to badmouth Bush and Republicans like the leaders of your party? We are in Iraq. That is reality. If you were the Commander-in-Chief starting tonight, what would you do about Iraq? Come on, let's hear it.

lies?
Can any of the libdolts show me where Bush lied?

didn't think so

As for the Monica Lewinsky Affair
I cut my teeth going after Liberals on leftist blogs and this is by far where they are the most protective. They hammer this Administration repeatedly for their criminal actions and rightfully so, but the majority just can't denounce that a President shouldn't commit perjury.

It wasn't about a BJ. It was a Grand Jury investigation regarding improper workplace behavior towards Paula Jones. Now if you wanted to prove that Clinton was capable of this improper behavior, you would want to point out a track record of this. This is important information for the case. Now if this was about another issue I could understand, but the question was very relevant to the case. It is this same defense of criminals that I was talking about before.

And I agree with Gunny, on this point, that if he would have just told the truth from the start that money wouldn't have been wasted, wouldn't have been wasted on that investigation at least. Government doesn't really save money on anything, it just gets spent elsewhere.

Donaldd
What lie?

I guess "chemical Ali" got his nickname because he owns a meth lab in Haiditha.

Ask the Kurds if WMD's didn't exist.

Scud's no longer rain down in Daharan and Jeruselem. Saddam took them down the spider hole for safekeeping.


Donaldd and...
... his ilk only know to say one thing when all else fails:

"Bush lied, Bush lied!"

Proving the adage that a lie repeated often and loudly enough becomes the "truth" in many persons' world.

I'm still waiting for anyone to PROVE Bush lied... and I'm not talking about conjecture.

Donaldd
Donaldd writes: Tuesday, January, 09, 2007 2:25 PM
"Ahenobarbus
Armitage is a team player, switch hitter, and has always been no matter which administration he worked under.

Armitage played ball under Bush 41, Clinton, and now Bush 43."

Donaldd, I do believe you are making this up as you go along. Armitage's position has been consistent throughout. If you have any evidence that he was actively pursuing Bush 43's policy preferences over his own, please provide it. All indications are that he was firmly a creature of Colin Powell's State Department throughout, undermining the Bush foreign policy quietly rather than openly.

"Would those Troops have been killed & maimed at their home bases?

Who ordered them into harms way?

Vigiante George W Bush that's who."

Oh, come on. This is pure sophistry. You can point that accusation at any commander-in-chief, regardless of the war, and the charge would be just as senseless. Every police commissioner and fire chief does exactly the same thing. They are not responsible for the misdeeds of others when sending their people out to do the job they contracted into VOLUNTARILY. We maintain a military in order to defend our nation. That is their purpose, and they know it when they sign up.

Donaldd
I would love to see where you can prove a lie.

But let's first establish the definition of a lie. As Merriam-Webster defines the verb to lie:

1 : to make an untrue statement with intent to deceive
2 : to create a false or misleading impression

Both definitions suggest the foreknowledge of the truth.

So, where can you demonstrate that the President had the foreknowledge that the information he and so many others had was in fact other than what he argued?

And, how is a lie a better description of what the President argued than what most people would describe as a mistake caused by being provided misinformation from the intelligence communities of several nations of which he was unaware?

Crawfish
"Can any of the libdolts show me where Bush lied?

didn't think so"

I don't no about the libs, but this conservative with principles can. Here are a few tidbits:

First Curveball was not a trustworthy source, they knew that but it wasn't the credibility of the source, they just wanted to justify going to war. They already had their answer, War, as could be seen in the Downing Street Memo, they just had to fill in the blanks and whether it was true or not be damned. There are multiple instances where Administration officials "encouraged" the intell community to give it the intell it wanted. Bush knew that they couldn't attack us in 45 minutes yet he declared it as if it were fact. They knew that Saddam wasn't going to send a balsawood plane to spread chemical weapons on the US. They knew that the inspectors would not find what they wanted and rushed to war before their work could be done. Do you even look into these things? Do you actually think that everything that falls under plausible deniability in Washington is virtous? Have you ever studied the history of how wars start? It was propaganda, you were duped. The PNAC bunch were just waiting for a 9/11 so they could put their thinktank products to action.

Does it depend on what the definition of "is" is for you to believe that he lied.

spion
What is your definition of "is"? All plausible deniability is virtuous? That is what you are arguing.

Some quotes
United Nations Address, Sept. 12, 2002:


"Right now, Iraq is expanding and improving facilities that were used for the production of biological weapons."
Radio Address, Oct. 5, 2002:


"Iraq has stockpiled biological and chemical weapons, and is rebuilding the facilities used to make more of those weapons."

"We have sources that tell us that Saddam Hussein recently authorized Iraqi field commanders to use chemical weapons -- the very weapons the dictator tells us he does not have."
Cincinnati, Ohio Speech, Oct. 7, 2002:


"The Iraqi regime... possesses and produces chemical and biological weapons. It is seeking nuclear weapons."

"We know that the regime has produced thousands of tons of chemical agents, including mustard gas, sarin nerve gas, VX nerve gas."

"We've also discovered through intelligence that Iraq has a growing fleet of manned and unmanned aerial vehicles that could be used to disperse chemical or biological weapons across broad areas. We're concerned that Iraq is exploring ways of using these UAVS for missions targeting the United States."

"The evidence indicates that Iraq is reconstituting its nuclear weapons program. Saddam Hussein has held numerous meetings with Iraqi nuclear scientists, a group he calls his "nuclear mujahideen" -- his nuclear holy warriors. Satellite photographs reveal that Iraq is rebuilding facilities at sites that have been part of its nuclear program in the past. Iraq has attempted to purchase high-strength aluminum tubes and other equipment needed for gas centrifuges, which are used to enrich uranium for nuclear weapons."
State of the Union Address, Jan. 28, 2003:


"Our intelligence officials estimate that Saddam Hussein had the materials to produce as much as 500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve agent."
Address to the Nation, March 17, 2003:


"Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised."


Glad we had all those satellite photos to confirm their nuclear program like we are using for Iran and North Korea. Oh wait nevermind.

GWB
I'm not worried about the definition of "is" that's for men who have no moral or intellectual compass.

I am looking for proof of deception based on facts that the President knew one thing and argued another with the intent to deceive.


Spion
People with no moral or intellectual compass use repeated cases of plausible deniablility in questionable areas as a crutch.

So based on your previous statement, I ask again, what is your definition of "is"?

Fletch
"The worldwide consensus of the intelligence community around the world was that Saddam was in possession of WMDs at the time of the invasion. Much of that intel was wrong, but the continued assertion by the Left that "everyone else" knew that they didn't exist (or the frequent joke that begins "even I knew") is nothing more than a blatant falsehood"

He did have those degraded weapons, but the Bush Administration said repeatedly that he was remanufacturing and remobilizing his CBRNs. I have not seen one ounce of proof, did we go to war for heresay? Where was the hard evidence that caused the intell agencies to believe that he had it. Like I said, I have not seen one satellite image, that is very odd.

There is a huge difference between possession and manufacturing and mobilizing. I was sold on the 45 minutes statement. I remembered hearing him say it as if it was yesterday, turning to my friend and saying, "that is it...we have to go in there." I believed Bush and in hindsight was foolish to do so. I will never believe a word our government says at face value after that. Iran will be a Gulf of Tonkin II, you mark my words.

Re: Some quotes
What became clear from the Duelfer report was that Saddam was in fact attempting and intending to rebuild his WMD. The only thing that temporarily inconvenienced him in this regard was the economic boycott imposed by the UN after the first gulf war. As soon as this was even partially lifted for the Oil-for-Food program Saddam perverted this program into a source of revenue to restart his WMD development.

We have found evidence of every kind of WMD Saddam was suspected of having. And we actually found over 500 armed chemical warheads shortly after the invasion.

We found two al Samoud missiles with range exceeding the prescribed UN limit. These missiles are far superior to the Scuds Saddam used in the 1991 war. How did Saddam upgrade his missile technology during a time when he was supposed to be disarming?

Saddam had the fuselage of a US passenger jet on the ground in a terrorist training camp on the outskirts of Baghdad that was being used to train terrorists how to hijack planes. How this could not be considered a direct threat to the safety of US civilians after 9/11 is so far beyond explanation that no one on the left has even tried. They just ignore it every time it comes up and then, after they feel enough time is lapsed, repeat their mindless mantra of "no WMD".

The second in command of the Iraqi Air Force (Lt. Colonel Georges Sada) has already told us what happened to most of the newest WMD. They were dismantled by Russian technicians and flown to Syria in passenger jets that had been gutted and converted into cargo planes.

On top of all of this there are literally a dozen well-known quotes from DEMOCRATS, including Bill Clinton and John Kerry dated 1998 or later stating without equivocation or qualification that Saddam had WMD and was continuing to develop more. And the significance of these quotes is that ALL were made AFTER Saddam kicked out the UN inspectors. These quotes were made in justification of Clinton sending 400 Tomahawk missiles into Baghdad in reaction to Saddam kicking the inspectors out. And NO ONE on the left uttered so much as a peep of protest at that time that we didn't have "photos" to prove the existence of WMD.

All of you lefties who continue to insist the Bush "lied" about Iraq's WMD are the worst kind of hypocrites employing the worst kind of double standard.

And that includes (especially) Valerie Plame and her Hubby, Joe Wilson. Plame recommended Wilson for an unofficial "mission" to go to Niger, sit in a hotel and sip tea for a few days, and, when no "yellow cake" found its way into his hotel room to bite him in the azz, report that "Bush lied", even though to this day the Brits stand by their claim that Saddam had tried to buy yellow cake from Africa.

Oh, and did I mention that among the "evidence" of WMD we have found in Iraq is 1.77 metric tons of , you guessed it, yellow cake. But it's still Bush that lied, right libs?

Bush Lied???
All I can offer the navel gazers here before heading out to tonight's Avalanche game is a list I believe to be accurate that factually proves the case for our return to Iraq:

http://ussneverdock.blogspot.com/2004/07/bush-lied-campaign-collapses-democrats.html

wise one: find some new talking points..
virtually all of your points have been disproved, and Bush has admitted as much.

WMDs have been discounted time and time again. That Saddam "wanted to" or "intended to" does not constitute a working and viable WMD program. That he was "inconvenienced" by the economic boycot and that he was actively trying to subvert it only points to the fact that it was working.

*TWO* Al Samoud missles that theoretically violated the UN range limitations. Had they ever been tested? Yes. Were they capable of violating the 149 meter range limitation? Nope.

Saddam had the fuselage of a US airliner? Or just a fuselage of an airliner. And of COURSE he was using it to train terrorists. Why else would he have something like that, unless maybe it would be to trian his own army to fight terrorists. I guess the fact that there's a 747 fuselage at Schiphol Airport in Amsterdam means the Dutch are training terrorists too.

And Syria is such a bastian of stability that chemical WMDs that were moved there as stated, but not proven, by Sada, haven't been used by anyone else. Now that's highly believable. If Sada knows where they are, why isn't he saying? Where's the proof. According to Mr. Sada, he can't say for fear of putting his friends and family in danger.. yet he can write a book? Now you're sounding more paranoid than the looney lefties. It's also curious that you quote the Duelfer Report where it suits you, and then ignore it (ala Sada) when it doesn't agree with you. Would you care to comment on the fact that many consider Sada a fraud?

And more innuendo from the Republican talking points... reaction to Clinton's attack was immediate and viscious. I guess you missed the wag the dog comments.

And finally 1.77 metric tons of yellow cake? Did you forget to read the REST of the article? That 1.77 tons of low-enriched uranium "had been under IAEA seal since 1991. It was last visited by IAEA inspectors in February 2003. It was "low-enriched uranium" and uranium's, "extremely low radioactivity is harmless compared with high-radiation materials". Peter Zimmerman, co-author of an expert analysis of dirty bombs for the U.S. National Defense University said "you cannot make a radiological dispersal device with uranium. There is just no significant radiation hazard."


Gunny G
>Scud's no longer rain down in Daharan and Jeruselem<

But they still rain down in Iraqi Kurdistan from Turkey and Iran, while the US and Iraqi government say nothing.

http://www.kurdmedia.com/news.asp?id=13859

Following the meal we were on our way out of this small area of Kurdistan where the PKK governs their own affairs, albeit under intermittent fire from Turkish and Iranian forces. A short time later I was back in Hewler, the seat of the world’s only recognized Kurdish government. I was relieved to take a shower and was soon back to my normal routine of emails and telephone calls, seeing friends and attending meetings. I read media accounts of the Iranian bombardment of Qendil, knowing all too well what happened, even as the Iraqi central government and US representatives remained silent on the matter, and hoped for the best for my friends in the mountains.


ExposeWriter writes:
"Saddam had the fuselage of a US airliner? Or just a fuselage of an airliner. And of COURSE he was using it to train terrorists. Why else would he have something like that, unless maybe it would be to trian his own army to fight terrorists."

Now THAT'S a new one I hadn't heard before. I can just see the sweet, benevolent Saddam sending in his hostage rescue team to prevent the taking of innocent Iraqi lives by evil terrorists.

You and others can keep arguing about the decision you might have made using the evidence and intelligence available AT THE TIME, but even the 9/11 commission has cleared this administration of trumping up the intelligence.

Did Saddam still have WMD prior to the build-up of the invasion that he somehow hid or moved elsewhere? I don't know. But for someone "innocent", he sure was going out of his way to present the appearance of guilt. Now why would he DO that???

Primus54
Didn't we establish earlier in this thread that the 9/11 commission was a complete fraud?

utahnotmormon
Libs don't get to have it both ways.

Either the 9/11 commission is credible or it isn't. But liberals aren't free to cherry-pick only those items or recommendations in the report they support, then get to ignore that which interferes with their constant droning about forced intelligence and "Bush lied."

Donaldd:
Are you really that incredibly naive or are you currently under the influence of a mood & mind altering substance???

Gee, Donaldd. Did you happen to catch any of those news reports by "Baghdad Bob" standing outside swearing to the world that Iraq had repelled the U.S. at the same time our tanks were rolling by in the background???

Jeesh!!

Both ways?
Sounds like you've got the same problem as the liberals.

>even the 9/11 commission has cleared this administration of trumping up the intelligence<

Or are you in complete agreement with the report?

No film?
Why the heck didn't the Gov'ment take pic's or something or another and hide them in case of fire or "theft"? This guy must have known about a prearranged wrist-slap or he wouldn't have risked it.

Good catch...
... George W Bush.

Wait until Tanabear arrives on the scene. Then you and he can have a grand old time together talking about Building 7... and black helicopters... and space aliens... and..... ZZZzzzzzzzzzzz!!

:-)

utahnotmormon
Am I in complete agreement with the report?

Good God no! Among other reasons... there isn't and probably never WILL be a "complete" report. But that's another subject.

Maybe I wasn't clear... I was referring to typical liberal hypocracy concerning their references to the report only when it supports their arguments. If they agree that Bush et-al didn't pump up the intelligence, then they lose one of their "Bush lied" ummm... "facts".

Primus54
Are you saying you find nothing at all suspicious or incocsistent about the implosion of Building 7?

That will be news to both FEMA and NIST, neither of whim has come up with a definitive explanation as to why that building collapsed.

Black helicopters and space aliens have nothing to do with it, but insurance fraud might. Regardless, a thorough and independent investigation is certainly warranted, if only so conspiracy theorists can be silenced.

Main Issues
And my main issue(s) with things in our nation's capital is that I keep constantly lowering my expectations of our elected officials, appointed officials & commissioners... and I STILL get disappointed when they can't clear an ever-lowering bar!

utahnotmormon
Point taken.

I'm overly sensitive to references to WTC 7 on these threads because MOST of what I've read here has to do with government conspiracies to "cause" 9/11, prompting my comment vis-a-vis "space aliens."

SANDY THE BERGLER
OL' FAT SHABBY SANDY IS ANOTHER REASON TO PUT THE CLINTON GANG IN JAIL ALONG WITH THE LEADERS, BUBBA AND THE HILLDABEAST.

WE'LL NEVER SEE THIS MOB BROUGHT TO JUSTICE, TOO MANY COWARDLY POLITICIANS TO SET A PRECEDENT THAT WOULD LAND THEM IN JAIL TOO.

Gunny
'Do let me know if you need me to spoon-feed you the EO's and other pubs.'

Careful - if the phylo fool assents, you'll be dealing with an anus.

Phylo
I have often thought this from other articles you have commented on, but now I am convinced. You are an Idiot.

Gunny
You're quite a guy. You calmly and patiently deal with some of the the most egregious idiocy I've ever read. I, long ago, gave up trying to reason with these types - it's not worth my time or effort.

What makes me wonder is: I've always fashioned my thinking on the scientific method. If you test your notions against the facts and you find they're insupportable, you revise your notions. In this way, we pursue truth and we are comfortable with our positions.

The amazing thing for me is that the liberal/leftist group finds such immutable comfort in their notions to the point that they are simply impervious to facts. And where do they end up? In a house mirrors reflecting nothing but lies.

There's some psychic need that's being satisfied here but wouldn't you say this is long term prescription for mental disease? Or are they simply so focused on ends that however corrupt the process becomes is irrelevant?

Note: consider all the perversions and mental states that are now described and treated that were once unheard of. Might there be a correlation here?

Primus54: You aren't providing any proof
What Saddam was doing with the fuselage of a jetliner is pure speculation. And that's my point, we don't know.

As for a presumption of guilt because he *looked* or *acted* guilty... considering that he was the most hated many in Iraq, the supposition that most of the WMD talk was aimed at keeping the Iraqi populace in line makes a certain amount of sense.

And please note that I didn't state that the administration had trumped up the intelligence as much as they cherry picked. The fact is, we now know that Saddam didn't have WMDs.

Primus54: You aren't providing any proof
What Saddam was doing with the fuselage of a jetliner is pure speculation. And that's my point, we don't know.

As for a presumption of guilt because he *looked* or *acted* guilty... considering that he was the most hated many in Iraq, the supposition that most of the WMD talk was aimed at keeping the Iraqi populace in line makes a certain amount of sense.

And please note that I didn't state that the administration had trumped up the intelligence as much as they cherry picked. The fact is, we now know that Saddam didn't have WMDs.

Sedonaman
'The Net of Justice

O, net of justice with mesh so fine,
No minnow escapes thy seep of twine;

O, net with such a lengthy train,,
No errant child escapes thy strain;

O, net with reach so long, so vast,
Ne'er tiniest soul escapes thy cast;

O, net with such a power pull,
Each haul of krill is over full;

O, wondrous net of mystery,
Why, only whales escape from thee!'

Sums up the wretched state of the judicial system - and Mowbray's column - perfectly.

Berger Has No Shame
Back to the original article. What galls conservatives is that when cought, we feel shame and go away-generally. Berger feels no shame. He gets hired to work for Kerry. We see him on the cable and Sunday shows. HOW CAN HE FEEL NO SHAME??? How is it that he is not exiled, never to be heard from again? This drives Conservatives nuts.

Just like Ted Kennedy. Just because the "good people" of MA keep sending him back to the Senate, this does not mean that we should have to hear from him constantly. With his questionable past(wow, is that charitable), no one should have him on their shows. But he is a liberal so we must ignore the 2000 lb. elepahant in the corner of the room.

It's the Liberal Justice Department
The Justice Department is only headedby the Bush-appointed Attorney General. The overwhelming majority in that Department are Liberal lawyers.
Witness the soft handling of Cynthia McKinney by Bush's Justice Department. The Justice Department lawyer assigned to prosecute Cynthia McKinney was a well-known Liberal Democrat. He made sure that Cynthia wasn't even touched with his fellow Liberal lawyer buddies on the Grand Jury and the most assuredly Liberal Judge involved. I am sure the same thing happened with Burglar. SO MANY LAWYERS ARE OVERWHELMINGLY DEMOCRAT. So many State Bar associations across the country and certainly the national ABA(American Bar Association) are overwhelmingly Liberal institutions. In DC, which has become a welfare state for Liberal Ivy League School lawyers and a job bonanza for lawyers(DC has more lawyers per capita than any other city in the entire world), the State Department, the CIA, and especially the Justice Department are overrun with Liberals. When Bush came to power, the heads of these organizations may have been Conservative appointees, but all other Liberals in these organizations kept their jobs. Is it any wonder that US diplomatic policy is STILL very Liberal in nature? Is it any wonder that the CIA "leaked" information to their Liberal criminal accomplices in the MSM and specifically the New York Times. When Clinton was in power only 6 years ago, MOST of these Liberals in all of these bureaucratic bastions were around in those halcyon days of Liberalism. They miss the good ol' days and will do everything in their power to bring them back and continue to cover for their ol' boss, Billy Boy and Company. Now, how can they pave the way for their future queen, the Hildebeast, if they allow Bill Clinton's administration to be tainted? Many of us foolishly and perhaps ignorantly believe Washington is some shining city on the hill with so many do-gooder "public servants"; nothing could be further from the reality. Washington, D.C., is a Liberal lawyer extortion racket to create a lawyers' perpetual welfare state at the expense of taxpayers. What the people don't understand is that the LAWYERS are getting all of the WELFARE - NOT THE PEOPLE! We have become their loyal subjects. They have established a lawyers' Kingdom if you will.

Protection
Radical Left Wing Communist Jews and their willing dupes will always be protected by the Democrats and the MSM. They still plan to take over this country.

Berger Crime
They may think they got away with murder but life is short and eternity is forever!

When they get befor the Big Bench on judgement day, all of their lies and slick moves will be useless!

His justice is severe and final!

RE: Phylo
Fact #1: Special Prosecutr Fitzgerald admitted openly that he knew from day number one that nobody broke any laws pertaining to the imagined "outing" of non-covert agent Plame. He has SPECIFICALLY stated this publicly. This is NOT in dispute. This means that Fitzgerald was playing a game of political "gotcha", hoping to find someone with a faulty memory.

As for the 5 "crimes" that Libby has been falsely charged with, all he would have to have said is "no" two times in response to the question "Do you recall if you ever once knew of Valerie Plame?" After Libby reviewed his notes, and VOLUNTARILY, ON HIS OWN, returned to the admitted political hack Fitzgerald to correct the record, Fitzy was free to save face by charging him (please note that no jury on planet Earth...outside, perhaps, Iran...will convict, and Fitzy KNOWS this, hence the reason he's delayed the trial for so long) with 5 crimes.

That you CELEBRATE this political witch hunt -- which Fitzgerald ADMITS that is EXACTLY what this is -- while simultaneously defending what amounts to, at the very least, espionage by one of your boys simply proves what I've been saying all along: that you and your ilk are traitors.

Fact #2: If the CIA stated Plame was a "covert agent", they were lying, and they know it. How is it that I KNOW, as a MATTER OF IRREFUTABLE FACT, that she could NOT have been covert? Let's forget about the fact that every one of her friends knew what she did for a living, let's forget the fact that her name appeared in "Who's Who In America" with a description of who her employer was, she lost her covert status way back in the late '80s because her cover had already been blown...TWICE!! The second time her cover was blown, it was by the CIA ITSELF when they told Fidel Castro who she was in a non-classified, publicly available document (please note this was but one of the tidbits of evidence that even the New York Times, et al, presented in their "friend of the court" brief on behalf of that jailed journalist).

The CIA was hostile with the administration, and they only claimed she was covert as a bit of political revenge for the heat they took when they screwed up and didn't do what they could have done to prevent the 9/11 attacks.

And, again, kiddo, it wasn't Libby nor "right wing shock jocks" that "outed" Plame, it was Iraq war OPPONENT Richard Armitage that "outed" her, and, again, Fitzgerald KNEW from day number one that it was Armitage.

No matter how many lies you repeat, no matter how often you regurgitate the falsehoods vommited by the Communist News Network, what is IRREFUTABLE is that Libby has been charged with correcting statements he made about what everyone knew from day one was NOT a crime, and that Sandy Berger KNOWINGLY stole and destroyed classified documents because they contained information damaging to him and "da bestest pwezident in da hole wyde werld".

Berger vs. Franklin: Thief vs. Spy
Well, the Right Wing Noise Machine is in full flower. Berger is a bonehead, but he didn't steal any original documents. He was just too damned lazy to read them all at the archives when he was preparing his testimony. Franklin on the other hand was caught by accident when the FBI was conducting surveillance on others suspected of spying. Who knows what he turned over to the Israelis on other occasions, a country which spies on us regularly (i.e., Jonathan Pollard), passes sensitive documents along to our enemies, and has even bombed and killed our servicemen (the Liberty)?

We jail thieves, sometimes, sometimes fine them or give them community service. Mostly, law enforcement doesn't even bother to investigate their crimes. On the other hand, we HANG spies, or had you slow learners forgotten already?

Don't take my word for it. Here's the Wall Street Journal's editorial on Berger.

After a long investigation, however, Justice says the picture that emerged is of a man who knowingly and recklessly violated the law in handling classified documents, but who was not trying to hide any evidence. Prosecutors believe Mr. Berger genuinely wanted to prepare for his testimony before the 9/11 Commission but felt he was somehow above having to spend numerous hours in the Archives as the rules required, and that he didn't exactly know how to return the documents once he'd taken them out...We called Justice Department Public Integrity chief prosecutor Noel Hillman, who assured us that Mr. Berger did not deny any documents to history. 'There is no evidence that he intended to destroy originals,' said Mr. Hillman. 'There is no evidence that he did destroy originals. We have objectively and affirmatively confirmed that the contents of all the five documents at issue exist today and were made available to the 9/11 Commission.'

conman
Thanks for the kudos. Sometimes these libcoms (liberal communists) catch me in a good mood and I try to help them out of their abject moonbattery. One American helping another. Explaining facts and showing them the errors of their wrongheadedness.

Most of the time however, I just read their nonsense and rip them a new one. The bottom line being that we'll never change the minds of any of the libcoms posting here and they D*MN sure ain't gonna change mine!

Plame Wants Book Deal
Yes,
Remember her outrage 3 years ago when word got out that she worked for the CIA as NOC? She was the only top secret under cover agent who drove her minivan daily to CIA Hq. Now that's Top Secret. In any event, Libby is on trial for "misleading" prosecutors on a crime that Prosecutor Fitzmas never said occured. As a matter of fact, the prosecutor knew there was no crime even before he questioned Libby. Fitzgerald kept the Grand Jury investigation opened and lied to the Grand Jury itself in order to troll for a victim, I mean criminal.

So, now Plame wants a 4 or 5 million dollar book deal, but the CIA won't allow her to publish it since she was an under cover, top secret, agent. CIA and DOJ lawyers would look silly prosecuting Libby for a crime, while allowing Plame (the innocent victim) to publish a book covering her life as a covert CIA agent.

Plame's lawyer is threatening a lawsuit.

JP
Is she writing it or having it ghostwritten like Bubba and Hitlary did?

Funny that she's getting hosed by her own doings. I frigging LOVE seeing idiots get what they deserve!

Diogenes
Berger admitted putting the documents under a construction trailer, only to find them gone when he returned later. Berger is no dummy. He knows the law. DOJ lawyers also admitted that the missing documents dealt with Clinton's response to both the Cole and Embassy bombings, as well as the negoications with Sudan in handing OBL over to the US. All 3 of these areas are obvious points of embarrasment if not outright humiliation for Clinton. Several people who worked in the West Wing during the late 90s say those documents would have destroyed Clinton's reputation.

In any event, Berger committed 3 major felonies: misleading and lieing to prosecutors (Libby is currently on trial for misleading Fitzpatrick);Removing classified documents, and the willfull destruction of classified documents.
Ignorance and stupidity do not count. He was the NSA for crying out loud. Berger should be behind bars. Prosecutors should have also put Clinton in front of a Grand Jury to see how much he played in all of this.

Gunny
She is having it ghost written. The CIA must approve it soon or most Americans will lose interest. You know how quick fame is in this nation. In a year, even in the Beltway, people will be asking Valerie who? See ya.

So where is the "smoking gun"?
The “Drafts” of the after action (MAAR) report were ALL printouts. Those weren’t the alleged “originals”.

And if Berger was trying to hide something; where is this smoking gun in the copies of the reports we know he took? Did anyone think of that one?
Sign Up to Post Your CommentsSign Up to Post Your Comments
If you are already registered, click here to login. Otherwise, please take a few seconds to register with Townhall.com. Once you sign up, you’ll be able to post your comments immediately, use the action center, get podcasts, and more!
Note: Fields marked with a red asterisk (*) are required.
Salutation:
First Name:
*
Last Name:
*
Email:
*
Nickname:
*
Note: Nick name will be shown when you post comments.
Address 1:
*
Address 2:
City:
*
State:
*
Zip:
*
Phone:
      
Your daily must-read of conservative columns, cartoons and news. Coulter, Sowell, Krauthammer and more.
(Bi-Weekly) We highlight the best opportunities from our partners for surveys, action items and more.