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Tuesday, June 09, 2009
Jillian Bandes :: Townhall.com Columnist
The Philly Abortion Giveaway
by Jillian Bandes
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Will the Dems' health care Christmas Present to America be an improvement or detriment to our health care system?


The Philadelphia Women’s Center gave away free abortions Tuesday in honor of Dr. George Tiller, the abortionist who was murdered last week by an anti-abortion extremist.

A worker at the clinic said that an unspecified number of free abortions had been performed during the day, but that they had stopped giving them away by late afternoon.

She also said that there had not been free abortion giveaways in the past, and that there were no plans to give any away in the future. Under normal circumstances, abortions would not be au gratis at the clinic.

*** Special Offer ***

But they were today, in honor of Dr. Tiller’s “memory and legacy.”

“It’s really sad that they would give away for free without recognizing that in an emotional sense the abortion is very costly,” said Dr. Charmaine Yoest, President and CEO of Americans United for Life.

The giveaway happened on the same day the family of Dr. Tiller announced the closing of his clinic in Wichita, Kansas. The closing means that only two clinics that perform late-term abortions will remain open in the United States.

"We are proud of the service and courage shown by our husband and father and know that women's healthcare needs have been met because of his dedication and service," the family said in the statement. "That is a legacy that will never die. The family will honor Dr. Tiller's memory through private charitable activities."

The family has ensured the privacy of the clinic’s patient records and information.

Katherine Spillar, executive vice president of the group Feminist Majority, told the Los Angeles Times that the clinic’s closing did not represent a setback for the pro-life movement.

"This is not a victory for them,” she said.

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About The Author
Jillian Bandes is National Political Reporter for Townhall.com
KILLING KIDS-BOGO DEAL TODAY ONLY???
When will people learn that words mean things. When I say abortion it may not drive home what that is. Abortion does not make me as angry as to crack the head of an unborn fetus and suck its brains out until its head collapses killing the child... So stop playing by the libs rules and if someone says abortion say killing, or murder. Now I know that this is not going to go over well at parties, if your unlucky enough to be at a party talking about killing kids. But this story illustrates how sick these people are. They are honoring a death by killing kids? WTF!! That sounds like an eye for an eye to me... Get on the ball and smack some libs around with logic... Logic is kryptonite to ignorant stateist...

Jillian
could you please post the news article supported this thread? I'm from Philly originally, and haven't seen or heard anything about it, not at any of the papers or on the radio (I listen to kyw on my computer--it would be news if it were true). Is this an article based on a blogger's comments?

"Memory And Legacy"???

But they were today, in honor of Dr. Tiller’s “memory and legacy.”

Let's crack the skulls, suck out the brains, and tear unborn children from the womb limb by limb for every death of a terrorist.

Yes, that is the moral eqivalency of the abortionists.

How very appropriate
What better way to celebrate the life of a man like Tiller than to kill as many unborn children as you can? It's so appropriate I'm moved- I even taste a bit of vomit in my mouth...

Isn't that special?
Murder for free.Is this what America has become?

a very nice gesture
to help some women who are in distress and maybe are lacking in the finances to pay for an abortion which they choose, and also to honor the memory of a great Doctor.

THE NAACP PRIDE SHOWED
HOW MANY BLACK GENOCIDIST SHOWED UP TO SHOW THEIR SUPPORT? DID THE URBAN LEAGUE, NAACP, BLACK STATE WORKERS, FEDERAL AFRICAN AMERICAN WORKERS ALL HAVE VOLUNTEERS SHOW UP FOR THE SACRIFICES TO THE OBAMANATION. HOW MANY BABIES GOT DESTROYED IN THE NAME OF THE FREEDOM OF MURDER BY THE CHOICE OF ABORTION.

Dr. Tiller's Patriotism
Dr. Tiller did a job, few wanted or dared to do, and paid for it with his life. The job was fufilling the Constitutional right to an abortion. Now you can disagree that the Constitution should not allow for this, but you are disagreeing with all 9 Supreme Court Justices. Scalia, speaking for the conservatives said on "60 Minutes" that the right to an abortion is protected under the 10th amendment. He also completly rejected the legal arguement so many pro-life people hold that abortion violates a constitutional right to life, saying that violated the orginal intent of the law and the arguement was unconstitutional. The Philly case is a case of honoring the legacy of Dr. Tiller who often did abortions at personal financial costs to him to make sure that every woman, rich or poor, had the equal right to an abortion.

For pity's sake
So the creepy ex-boyfriend doesn't have any "cost". The women's center just gave a gift to the guys. The women do all the suffering alone now.

still waiting for the citation
to an actual news source.

Dr. King’s Niece

The niece of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., on Tuesday condemned the remarks of late-term abortionist LeRoy Carhart in comparing the recent murder of abortionist George Tiller to King’s assassination. She said that any comparison of abortionist’s murder to civil rights leader’s assassination ‘Offensive Beyond Belief.’

"For LeRoy Carhart (of the Washington Times) to mention the murder of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., who worked through peaceful and non-violent means, in the same breath with that of George Tiller, whose work ended peace and brought violence to babies in the womb, is offensive beyond belief," Dr. Alveda King, pastoral associate of Priests for Life, said in a statement. "The analogy is just wrong."


http://www.cnsnews.com/public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=4 9335

donovan
Dr. Tiller died as a patriot...
...and a hero of women everywhere.

He will be missed.


And, YOU called me a ghoul and an evil b@stard (female)?

Even Dr. King's niece finds beliefs like yours to be ghoulish.

St. Denis,
Yes, I did. And yes, you are.

Tiller was (is) a hero of women. He provided a service that almost no one else had the bravery to perform.

Women are at higher risk and have fewer medical options now because some monster decided to commit murder.

Let's hope you never find yourself with late-term life threatening pregnancy complications.

Donovan
St. Denis,
Yes, I did. And yes, you are.

Tiller was (is) a hero of women. He provided a service that almost no one else had the bravery to perform.

Women are at higher risk and have fewer medical options now because some monster decided to commit murder.

Let's hope you never find yourself with late-term life threatening pregnancy complications.



I have had not one, but two extremely late-term, life threatening pregnancies with potentially catastophic complications. My children and I are fine, but should one of them needed to be delivered early, there is always a caesarian section and inducement.

FU, ghoul.

St. Denis,
I am glad that you and your kids are doing well.

Many others have not been so lucky.

Hey Donovan
Your attitude about killing the baby in the womb is typical of the impragnator who knocks up one of his girl friends and rides off into the sunset leaving the poor impragnatee dangling in the wind. Occasionally, the impragnator feels guilty and gives the impragnatee money(cash only) to have the friendly compassionate abortionist kill the baby. After all it's only a blob of tissue, products of conception, or contents of the womb.

Willibeaux,
I'm not terribly concerned with your opinion of my attitude.

My attitude has the virtue of being in line with the law, with the opinion of our judiciary, with justice, and with what is right.

Donovan
Why precisely are you commenting on an article at a site where you know that your article neither needs any representation nor will need any support?

You must be mendacious about your response stating your lack of concern with Willibeaux' opinion. You are either here to share because you want to rile people, in which case their opinion very much matters to you since you clearly need attention...or you need to convert people, in which case once again Willibeaux attitude very much concerns you. You may not like his opposition to your opinion, since he apparently has not crossed over to your intellitrash propaganda, but you clearly would be overjoyed had you conscripted him.

Just saying good little Comrade.

What the Hell?
This must have been Tiller's first words when he thought he was in church but found himself in eternity.

Murder in honor of a murderer?. It seems each day someone comes up with something that is unbelieveable. Am I dreaming I ask myself. Life in America is like some weird episode of the Twilight Zone.
DO YOU A$$ HOLES KNOW WHAT AN ABORTED BABY IS!!!!DO YOU, DONOVAN THE IDIOT, WANT TO SEE AN ABORTED BABY WRAPPED IN A RECEIVING BLANKET WHILE MOM AND DAD SMILE FOR A FAMILY PHOTO?!!
AM I NUTS TO FIND THIS EVIL DISGUSTING AND MACABRE? WHY DO YOU SUPPORT THIS PRACTICE. YOU CRAZY ENFANT D'PUTAIN, YOU. yOU MAUDIT BATARD DU DIABLE!

This Abortion shopping spree has gone and done it for me.

Hmmm... what day did Hitler die? Maybe on the anniversary of that day they can kill any Jew that aggravates OR INCONVENIENCES you in honor of Hitler. Its the same thing, except Tiller was a "hands on" killer.

Consolation
The only consolation is that now Tiller the Killer is having to answer for the 60,000 babies he slaughtered. I would HATE to be a member of his family! (I wonder how many of his own children had their skulls crushed and the brains sucked out? No doubt he would have obliged should the "need" have arisen.) As his dependent, I would HATE to be living off the blood money...60,000 little children snuffed out, sucked out, burned out, whatever, by his very own hands.

Like others who have already written, I could just vomit at the freebies being offered today. Tiller's legacy "lives" on in the deaths of more innocents. Gag!

Jeannie,
I'm commenting on this article for 2 reasons:

1) I am outraged over Dr. Tiller's murder;

2) I enjoy debating.

I don't expect to change anyone's mind. And no one is going to change mine.

So just sit back and enjoy the back-and-forth.

It's what Democracy is all about!

Prayers for Dr Tiller
he needs them.

I cannot pretend to know the final judgment on him, but I can hope that in the last seconds of his life he knew great remorse since there is no ambiguity about deliberate murder of babies. Enough testimony was heard by abortion doctors that they saw babies in the canal shrink from the scissors that came at their skulls and also overwhelming testimony showed that NO woman can be saved by late term abortion, since it is a two day process, and in no way can be an immediate procedure. The baby has to be induced to birth and then it is stabbed in the canal as long as the head has not crowned the opening of the canal.

Ghoulish is mild for what people say who have seen the procedure and ask the hundreds of nurses and doctors who turned anti-abortion after having to have performed murder.

Hey Donovan! Spoken
like an impragnator. It's not my opinion, but happens every day in America.
Have a great day big guy.

Tiller's killer is a "Terrorist"...

Or so suggested CNN's reporter.

So, one death is Terrorism. But 3,000 deaths is a "Man-Made Event"?

It's painfully obvious that the 3,000 innocents killed on 9/11 were not quite as important to Liberals as a single man named Tiller.

I rest my case.

Donovan, you are prevaricating after all
Debating involves the discussion of points
It does not involve personal comments that effectively shut down discussion, both of which you have freely enacted.
It is called incitement, not debate, but thank you for manifesting the reason why the country is in the state it is in. Someone is responsible for actually teaching you that what you are doing is debate.
I too am outraged at the murder of Dr.Tiller and I don't believe that it was justified in any way, however I am also worried for Dr. Tiller's soul equally to the murderer's. The murderer has to have been crazed to have done it while Dr. Tiller profited cold bloodedly from exploiting youthful ignorance and shallow values.

Hitler had a henchman who similarly engaged in aborting and murdering those who were deemed unfit to live and most determined that he was a ghoul. It is chilling that a man who Hitler's henchman would likely have patted on the back with praise is viewed as a savior some 70 years later in this country that fought to annihilate Hitler's genocide.

Legacy?
Oh how he cared about women! I expect to see Tiller's face on a US stamp soon.
What a guy!

Hey Donovan!
It'a male who inseminates a female. Do you have a guilty conscience?

Bravery, Donovan?
It now takes bravery to crush the skull of infants with forceps and suck out their brains with a vacuum?

It takes something alright, but bravery it isn't. More like a complete lack of a moral compass.

I imagine you think Hannibal Lector a brave one too for being the only man brave enough to cannibalize for fun.

The difference? Cannibalization isn't protected by 5 out of 9 justices using 1973 medical knowledge.

Bondage sadism is not due to abortion
Children who are well cared for and loved are stolen and kidnapped. It is no fault of too many children, it is entirely the fault of a world that doesn't protect children and further condemns itself by saying that aborting the gift of life is a kindness. Do those who support abortion and so compassionately prescribe it for alleged overpopulation really wish that they too had not been born? If so they are hardly rational enough to discuss the issue since life is not precious to them at all.

And economically abortion is the quickest way to a country's bankruptcy or extinction. China only recently has had to scramble to have more female babies born since the ratio of men to women is so imbalanced and these men, unfettered and unattached, are given to so many levels of crime, self mutilation and substance abuse that the country is endangering its future existence.

True terrorists meanwhile know that by having dozens of little propaganda pawns in each family they have less worry about violent overthrow. By sheer numbers, England will be prevalently populated by the people whose religion is currently involved in all but a few of the major battles in the world and is virtually THE representative of mideast terrorism.

But all abortion supporters have one silver lining. Those who will outnumber them want the annihilation of this country as much as they do. Too late it will occur to them that the terrorists don't mean to exclude their precious sympathetic souls from annihilation as well.

Willibeaux said, "It'a male who...
...inseminates a female."

Actually, that would be an impregnator, not an impragnator.

But no, I don't have a guilty conscience. Believe me when I say that there is zero chance of me ever getting a woman pregnant ;-)

Abortion worse than slavery
On the day of Brown's execution, bells were tolled and minute guns fired in many places in the North, and church services and public meetings were held for the purpose of glorifying his deeds and sanctifying the cause he represented, recognizing in him a martyr to the teachings of the abolitionists. Eventually his name became the slogan under which, as a battle hymn, the Northern troops invaded and overran the South.

Brian K said, "It takes something...
...alright, but bravery it isn't."

I'd say it takes bravery to continue doing a job in which you are threatened with death every single day.

Donovan, take this the right way
I do not know who turned you atheist but I pray that somebody's kindness and genuine caring for you, the individual Donovan, will come to help you realize that you are wrong about that which you joke. I don't for a minute think that you are having fun and I sincerely hope that a true peace comes to you through someone whose love so overwhelms you because you are made to realize that far from a nothing you are a miracle on this planet.You, Donovan. You. God's grace be with you. I don't know when it will happen but I truly will pray for you and hope you will find REAL joy.

Donovan You're not funny
A child is not a cow and for you to make light of this shows just how despicable you are. Why don't you want to look at the truth? Maybe you already have and it doesn't bother you.
Is that what it is? If you have never seen the pictures of an aborted baby, then you have no reason to come here and make your comments because you don't know what you are talking about.
Are you so proud of being a liberal, that you're afraid the truth will change your mind?


Does melvin have children?
Given the tenor of the post, I'd say no.

The pain of abortion is very real, especially of the kind Killer Tiller performed: sterility, possible death, and of course, a 100% chance of dead infant.

Sadists? Tiller made a living slaughtering infants. You must have a very strange definition of sadism if it includes people who bend over backwards at no charge to help pregnant women in trouble but excludes people who kill infants for fun and profit. Like Tiller.

Your willful ignorance of what the pro-life movement does for women in crisis pregnancies can only lead me to conclude you enjoy killing "urchins" at any age, and the only reason you don't do it more often is because its illegal once they are born. Unless its in Tiller's clinic, of course.

I see...
Donovan: "I'd say it takes bravery to continue doing a job in which you are threatened with death every single day."

You mean being a fetus in the Wichita Kansas area?

Jeannie,
Can you provide me with any empirical evidence, testable and reproducible, that demonstrates any of that mysticism you are spouting?

Ai yi yi...
Well, I've always been pro-choice, but I don't know about 'free abortions' for a day... yuck.

Very bummed that Tiller's clinic is closing. I'm sure his family had their reasons but in closing it down --- The terrorists have won.

donovan: WHAT? "Tiller died as a patriot

...and a hero of women everywhere."

Tiller was ANYTHING BUT a patriot or a hero.

Tiller was NOTHING BUT a cold blooded MURDERER! And what's worse, Tiller murdered the most innocent and defenseless of all...

THAT does NOT take a hero or a patriot...




Legal murder for illegal murder
What better way to celebrate the death of a eugenicist than to perform more free murders.

George Tiller may not have deserved murder under the law, but he was a terrible human being a murderer himself.

Abortion is just a modern word for eugenics, killing the poor, especially blacks, while preserving class position for rich girls. Elitists love abortion along with condoms and sexual behavior that does not cause procreation because they believe the earth is overpopulated, they hope to exterminate much of humanity. This is why they spread condoms all over poor nations - keep them from reproducing, plus they get diseases which kill them sometimes when the condoms fail. Progressivism is a cult of death.

Donovan
REad Chesterton's Orthodoxy. The best arguments for atheists are reading former atheists. You would be surprised how non-mystical they are, while they will show evidence of how many beliefs of atheists are far more 'mystic' and fantastical than anything in Christ.

If you truly are seeking joy, and I hope that is why you bothered to respond back to me (you had hte option to not say anything so I'll tell you right now that something in you is a little bit curious and I'm counting on that) atheists and agnostics who set out to DISprove God are the best ticket for you. Their humor, their attachment to the real world and maybe most importantly for you, their understanding of the skepticism that is out there and their refusal to condemn those who doubt, will be a pleasure for you to read. It may not. I may be praying for a long time, but you are on my ticket now so like it or not I care.

=)

George Tiller was supremely misguided
Just as are all of those who support abortion without knowing the cost even on earth. There is so much information that has been researched painstakingly and yet all the media will do is continue to paint anti-abortion people as religious zealots who hate all those who have abortions. Breast cancer, suicide, population decimation, economic decimation, devalued life, depression are but some of the results and the media has had access to medical, scientific and neutral reports over the years. They willingly are leading generations of women into nightmares of anger, self-isolation and severe punishment if you openly regret your abortion. The coven of crones who so staunchly defend all abortions are relentless to any who turn on them.

Donovan
There is a huge difference between a lab specimen of a dead fetus, and an aborted baby. Most abortions involve dismembering and vacuuming the fetus' body parts.

Dr Bernard Nathanson, the founder of NARAL, stopped performing abortions after he did two using ultrasound. He could see the baby trying to evade his suction device, and was moved to campassion.

Please rethink this issue, in terms of what we now know about fetal development, and the fact that abortion is that taking of an innocent life.

Jeannie,
I responded because the theist attempts to convince me that there is some kind of deity always amuse me immensely.

All you need to do is provide me with some bit of testable empirical data that I can use to demonstrate the existence of such a deity.

I don't need to dis-prove the existence of any gods, because the null hypothesis, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, is "no gods".

So I invite you to falsify the null hypothesis.

No
The terrorist lost. The real hero is?
Let me see, Babies are much safer today than when Mr. Tiller was alive. Not to hard to figure out.
I think the new slogan should be " Abortion should be safe legal and rare by making abortionist safe legal and rare "
Rot in Hell Mr. Tiller
Sincerely, Someone who could not care less about you

Donovan, writers who you might enjoy
C.S. Lewis - famous, needs no intro
Joseph Pearce - columnist, British
John C. Wright - science fiction

Donovan says:
"He will be missed"

Donavan, two weeks from now they'll find a replacement and we'll remember him about as much as we do whats-is-name.


Abortion should probably not be ...
... legal beyond three months. Apparently 90% of abortions are done within 3 months. Data on what percentage of women having an abortion did not use birth control are rarely discussed. My guess that percentage is probably high. There is no need to have so many abortions in this country.

Donovan thank you again
By saying it is a nullist idea, when it cannot be DISPROVEN, and by labeling my response as belonging to some collective you once again show that you are cynical and disbelieving but not without hope. I have given all that you need, I believe in planting seeds and letting them come to fruition, not conking people out with a sledgehammer. Maybe having somebody be reasonably kind to you, give you a little practical reading material and let you know you're prayed for because you matter, will not just 'amuse' you but water that seed a little.

Peace and joy be with you.

ABortion is birth control
In open hearings it was admitted BY ABORTIONIST(s)that less than 1% of abortions are done for any reason other than birth control.

Jeannie said, "I believe in planting...
...seeds and letting them come to fruition..."

If you think you're the first person to say this sort of thing to me, you are sadly mistaken.

The only thing that will convince me is empirical, testable, falsifiable, scientific, point-it-out-on-paper evidence.

That's the only thing that convinces me of anything at all.

To accept something as true, it needs evidence. No matter what it is.

Boo hoo, how touching

Give away some abortions to celebrate the death of a babykiller. I'm sure this made our President proud.

I'm generally against abortion but late-term abortions are the some of the most vile actions imaginable. If people knew the mechanics and biology of what that Tiller guy did on a regular basis they would probably have nightmares. Takes a real sick person to specialize in that form of "medicine".

I can't say I'm sorry Tiller is dead. He didn't deserve to be murdered but then again neither did his many thousands of victims.

Donovan said
"I have seen many dead fetuses. In jars. In formaldehyde. At all stages of development, from zygote all the way through full term.

You can too. Find the BODIES exhibit. Great stuff. "

So here we see what Donovan is--not misguided, just evil. He's full of merde. He stinks. I can no longer respond to any of his posts. He makes me want to puke. He sounds like a serial killer.

Oh Donovan you are really coming out her
there are so many things that you believe on faith, even anatomical aspects of your own biology.

That is not your only truth. Like I said I do not want to sledgehammer you, but your reasons, so concise and detailed, are not rejections, they are requests and if you read what I suggested, many people who come from the same thinking place as you do address all of that and show the falsity of your comments...falsity of which you may indeed be unaware.

I hope that you do summon a little interest in yourself and expend some energy there. I have already admitted that I am no miracle worker, just a believer who has seen miracles and knows how they work.

I suspect that this time I really will silence you but any sales trainer or psychologist will tell you that by responding to me the way you did, with specific points, rather than ignoring me, you were asking me for more information. Your soul's salvation is thankfully not up to me and like I said all I can do is plant the seed and hope a little kindness will be enough water and fertilizer to make you someday (maybe not tomorrow and maybe not the next day, but someday, to woefully hack a great line) look at what little I provided.

AGain, peace be with you and I'm done with the messages, it was a good article and apparently I was supposed to meet you, but as for the rest I am either preaching to the choir or I am talking into the wind so time is better spent elsewhere. ;-)

Jeannie,
I'm glad that you have such a high opinion of your own importance!

It's too bad that both you and I are utterly insignificant little specks in a large, cold, and uncaring universe.

Hey Donovan! Thank you
for correcting my spelling.
Now you have my curiosity aroused.
Are you a female, a homosexual or have you had a vasectomy? I know I'm imposing on your privacy, so please accept my apology.

donovan, that gave me a big smile
Get angry at me, I've already told you I have nothing to do with your salvation so accusing me of being self-important is a personal comment, which means that you are not debating I am getting you riled and that, Dear Sir, is good news.

This really is my final response, but unfortunately for you I have just proven that it's not a cold and uncaring universe because not only will I never know if you looked up my reading list, I will be praying for you without ever knowing what happens to you. That means I get NOTHING as a direct reward so you twist and turn that evidence insistent brain to somehow make it fit that it's cold and uncaring.

I am truly sorry that you have experienced a cold and uncaring universe, but I hope that you are warmed soon.

xoxox

Stop the Abortion Bailout
President Obama's 2010 Budget recommendations signal the Abortion Bailout is in full swing!

Here is the 2010 edition of the Abortion Bailout Package:

* Taxpayer funding for abortions in the District of Columbia * $317 million in taxpayer funding for “Title X” Health Clinics (aka your local Planned Parenthood affiliate)


* $50 million for the UNFPA, an international aid organization connected to coercive abortion as part of China’s coercive one-child policy

In December 2008, Abortion groups submitted a 50 page proposal to the Obama-Biden Administration.

To date President Obama has fulfilled 11 of the 15 policies requested for the first 100 days.

With more of the Abortion Bailout to come, we can surely expect to see some of the other demands to come in the months ahead:

* Include Abortion coverage in any taxpayer-subsidized national health care program

* Expand taxpayer-funded abortions on military bases

* Expand taxpayer-funded abortions through the Peace Corps program * Expand taxpayer-funded abortions for federal prisoners

We must act now! Send a letter to your Senators today demanding that they keep your tax dollars out of the pockets of abortion providers.
http://www.sba-list.org/c.ddJBKJNsFqG/b.5154927/k.FBFF/Stop _the_Abortion_Bailout_Action_Center/siteapps/advocacy/Actio nItem.aspx?c=ddJBKJNsFqG&b=5154927&aid=12290 

Donovan
Imagine a building is scheduled for demolition. Someone runs up to the demolition crew and says that he thinks he saw a small child enter the building.

Maybe there is a child inside, maybe there isn't, but would it not be better to err on the side of caution?

If you are wrong on this issue, you have supported the worst genocide in world history.

BTW, everything you said about fetuses would also apply to newborns, who can demonstrate neither higher reasoning nor self-awareness.

whatever D is
Its clear from postings there is a lack of testicular strength is the words. Iafter getting past the third or so, I was already thinking, Grow some D.

It didn't take me long
to realize Donovan is unreasonable. Some of you are still trying to reason with him. Read then ignore his comments. HE/she/it thinks he is above us all. Wipe the dust off your feet and move along.

Vizier
I totally agree!

An honor
What better way for the socialist pigs to honor "Tiller the Killer", may he feel the searing pain of his flesh dripping from his bones for eternity!

who's aborting their babies people
ya gotta look at this for what it is.

liberals abort their babies = less liberals.

it's a win-win.


Tiller
Was Dr. Tiller murdered or was it just a post-birth abortion?

despicable people
Those people(and I find it hard to call them human) are the most despicable people on earth. No more free abortions after this? Why not? Could it be they don't want to give up the millions of dollars they receive for the murder of innocent life? I can't tell you how disgusted I am. My only consolation is that Dr. Tiller(the baby killer) has been judged and I am sure he is spending eternity just exactly where he should be.

Ben
Why should the innocent babies suffer because their parents are vile?

Comparison
WE are in Nazi Germany in the 30's. The dehumanization of Jews is protected under the law. Soon it is required to turn in Jews. They are subhuman.

We are in American since Roe v. Wade. Babies in the womb are not considered human. It is OK to kill them. It is protected under the law.

Who are we kidding? 50 million dead. The country goes on with its massive addiction to entertainment.

America is under judgment.

a "friend of Tiller's
I saw a friend of Tiller's on CNN tonight talking about the fan mail he was getting and that he planned to open another murder clinic soon. I looked at his eyes and they just seemed dead to me. You have to have had something die in you to want to murder babies in such a horrible manner. Look at Tiller(the baby killers') eyes when he is shown on the news. Again, dead. The man did not have salvation and he knew where he was going after he died. The money was just too important to him and to all the other creeps who perform abortions on demand.

Idiots at FOX News !!!
FOX NEWS clowns proves that they are only good at hate mongering & lies.

Looks like covering business news is not their forte

http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1914004

BUSH & GOP HAD ALL THE POWER
FOR 6 YEARS.

DID THEY DO ANYTHING TO STOP ABORTION!!!


CONSERVATIVES ARE NEVER REALLY AGAINST ABORTION. THEY JUST WANT TO KEEP MILKING ISSUE TO GET THEIR VOTING BLOCK EXCITED.

THEIR ACTIONS TELLS IT ALL!!!!

GOP'S NEW SLOGAN FOR 2012
"Think abortion doctors should be shot?

-VOTE GOP!"

FACTS ON LATE-TERM ABORTION
-Also known as partial birth abortion.
-Is done in the last trimester of pregnancy.

PROCEDURE:
-Labor is induced.
-The baby's head IS delivered (partial birth).
-A scissors is used to stab into the base of the baby's skull in the back of the head.
-The scissors is opened to create a bigger opening.
-A suction catheter is inserted into the opening and the baby's brain is suctioned out collapsing the skull.
-The rest of the baby's body is delivered.

Tiller's Choice

Most doctors choose a life of treating and curing desease.

Dr. Tiller choose a life of sucking a fully viable, unborn babies brain through a tube.

Liberals supported Dr. Tiller.

RepubliCONS don't care about abortions
All they want is a topic to b@itch about.

Notice how the cons here all whine about 'libs' thinking abortion is OK- yet not one of them is upset the GOP did't do a damn thing-or even tried to do a damn thing when they had total power?

Not one of them ever commented on their ex leader Sen.Frist getting rich from abortions.

What a bunch of hypocrites

Abortion is not a mantra of the GOP.
George W. Bush did try to do something about abortion- he enacted the ban on partial birth abortion which Dr. Tiller ignored and did anyway. Dr. Tiller got away with doing this because Kansas' governor covered for him. This is the same Kansas governor who is now the head of Health and Human Services, appointed by Obama.
It is about the sanctity of all human life.
If abortion is such a great thing, than why don't we enact other laws that would be equally helpful such as cutting the hand off of someone who is caught stealing or castrating someone who is convicted of rape? After all, these are laws that several middle eastern countries have such as the United Arab Emirates, Oman, Saudia Arabia. According to my brother who is in the military, crime in the countries is very low because of these laws.

What we do know.

Only Liberals believe taxpayers should pay for other people's abortions.

Poor Donovan
Sets up strawmen and false dichotomies and says he likes to debate. It would have been better for him not to remove all doubt.

Bill Frist Made $$$ Off Of Abortion?

What lunacy, TD 2008! Frist is a cardiac transplant and cardiothoracic surgeon, who started the heart-lung transplantation program at Vandebilt.

He has always been pro-life and fought to ban late-term abortions.

Frist has long supported programs to fight AIDS and African poverty. He continues to travel to Africa frequently to provide medical care.


TD, what a crock!

TD2008, Wrong, AGAIN
BUSH & GOP HAD ALL THE POWER
FOR 6 YEARS.

DID THEY DO ANYTHING TO STOP ABORTION!!!



First, they passed The Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act in 2003.

Secondly, the GOP did not control the Supreme Court, which would have been necessary to ban all abortions.

But, hey! Thanks for playing.

COME ONE! COME ALL!
Step right up. It's free, you know.

GOVERNMENT DAILY SPECIALS:
Monday-Abortions
Tuesday-Euthanasia
Wednesday-Shovels
Thursday-Fiats
Friday-Bicycles
Saturday-Beans and rice
Sunday-Uniforms, mandatory government issue (aren't you glad they're free)
BETTER HURRY WHILE SUPPLIES LAST
But never fear, ACORN's here-to pick up and take all who 'qualify' for Tuesday's Special.


Rich D,
Which strawmen and false dichotomies are you accusing me of?

That Tiller was a hero? He was. He died as a man with the balls to continue doing his duty despite daily threats to his life. He championed the health and medical care of women when almost no one else would.

The monster who decided to murder him will spend the rest of his life in federal prison.

Another Baby Murder Mill Bites the Dust
Leave it to the Unhinged Feminazi Front, as well as their morally-emasculated metrosexual court eunuchs posting here to mourn the closing of a charnel house for human babies.


Dr Mengele Had a Family Too
Tiller the Killer is to Feminism what SS Dr Josef Mengele was to genetic research.

In an interesting parallel, after slipping the noose of justice and fleeing to South America, Mengele supported himself by performing abortions.

Although some people have speculated whether the Mossad "assisted" Mengele on his journey to the next world, officially he died of natural causes - something denied the untold thousands who perished at his hands.

Alas, that's where the comparisons between Tiller and Mengele end

SandMan said, "Mengele supported...
...himself by performing abortions."

In Catholic South America?!

I challenge this. What's your source on that info?

I call B.S. on you.

Poor Donovan part I
Unlike Jeanie, I will not take the high road. I will not be praying for you.

People like you who advocate abortion as a means of population control make me sick. If you really want to do something about population control, do us all a favor. Get a rope; tie a knot and step off a stool.

I am not a pro-life drumbeater out to ban all abortions. I have never been faced with the decision and will reserve my judgement of the decision of others. People have to live with the consequences of their own decisions. What I am against, is you limp spine cretins who are all for the taking of life, but have to change the term to something less abrasive to subvert the populace because you are too weak to stomach the reality. I cannot make a legal argument against all abortions, but killing a defenseless baby that has the capability to survive without the mother is murder. You cannot claim that the child is not alive when the baby can survive without the mother. The mother and the abortionist should be tried for murder. Bring your quack doctor into any courtroom in America to argue self-defense, that your life was in danger and see how far that gets you. A partial birth abortion is nothing short of giving birth then killing the baby. Just because the current law grants a loophole that says as long as the baby isn't all the way out it's ok, does not change the facts of what is done.

Poor Donovan Part II
The problem with atheists is that they don't exist. It's just a title thrown around by weak-minded people that don't have a sac to put on the block for what they do believe. You want to call yourself an atheist so you remain viable in any argument on any subject with out the backlash that comes from taking a stand on an issue.

You live in a self-created dream world where your choices have no consequences beyond your own existence, and attempt to project indifference. The reality, however, is that all you can ever muster are strawman arguments that never hold up and when intelligent people see through your facade, you run back to your dream world and chant "It doesn’t matter. There is no God." and cry yourself to sleep. What a miserable existence.

You want to know what I believe is the real reward for having Faith. The tranquility and utter feeling of being at peace that emanates from those who believe like Jeannie. Being able to live with yourself with out fear or guilt may very well be the Heaven that one can hope to achieve through good deeds, true love and unconditional Faith.

Jeannie, Donovan may very well be a lost cause, but if nothing else, your words have inspired me this morning. Thank you.

William,
My my, you *are* spirited this morning!

I'd like to mention a couple of things. I have not actually advocated abortion as a means of "population control", as you phrased it.

I am very irate over the murder of Dr. Tiller, it is true. How you gather "population control" from that is beyond me.

As far as I am concerned, the decision about abortion is between a woman and her doctor(s) and no one else. It is a decision that the individual woman in question will have to live with, and the last thing she needs at a time like that is a million other people telling her what she should or should not be doing.

Second, I haven't actually described myself as an atheist either. You and Jeannie have used that term to describe me; I have not.

Interesting that.....
...we don't hold the 'mother' as the real murderer here.
I will never condone what happened to Tiller...murder is murder and I hope the killer pays the full price.
Tiller was simply a provider....these women who come, of their own free will, are the true cuprits here...we are supposed to be the protectors of life...instead we pay someont to tear it out of its secure world and murder it.
Giving away free abortions in some sort of celebration is the work of evil...pure and simple. Any other words would just be futile.

Abortionists: be Brave or be Stupid
The employees of the Allentown, Pa Women's Center expressed fear while memorializing Tiller. After being shot in both Arms in the 1990's, the reward of $5000 per 60, 000 abortions was worth the risk to Tiller.
Obama, Planned Parenthood and all Abortion centers are outraged by Tillers death. Obama's outrage is that Bill Clinton, who received a measley $25,000 from Tiller as a "Thank You" and Obama's HHS Secretary Sebilius counted on his donations to the Democrat Party

The outrage should be that the AMA would give a license to Tiller and call him an MD, and call Tiller a "Heath Care provider instead of exterminator.
The outrage is that Tillers family believes that he will be welcomed into Heaven. I doubt that; but if that should be true than you would see Nazi Dr. Josef Mengele who also ripped babies from the wombs of mothers, and Hitler who was responsible for deaths of 6 million Jews standing at the Pearly Gates to welcome Tiller.



I am also psychic
I could have written your reply for you. Argue with out being in the argument. Speak much while saying nothing. Saying there is no spirit is atheist, and your reluctance to full on admit your stance, furthers my theory on athiests.

"As far as I am concerned, the decision about abortion is between a woman and her doctor(s) and no one else."

All I ask is that we be honest in explaining the facts. Destroying something that has the ability to survive on its own is Murder. Don't dumb down the term. It in no way serves the mother. The softening of terms is an age old political tactic to make an idea marketable when it would other wise be socially unacceptable.

I am all for a woman having the choice of whether or not to have a child. I just feel that by softening the terms and purposfully dumbing down the populace, you encourages that decision to be made at the wrong time. The choice to have a child should be made befor sex, not 15 weeks pregnant.

William,
'Murder' has a very strictly defined legal definition.

Murder is the unlawful killing of a person by another person with malice aforethought.

Since abortion is legal, by the definition of murder, abortion cannot be murder.

William said, "The choice to have...
...a child should be made befor sex, not 15 weeks pregnant."

This isn't the 17th century, buddy. Sometimes people want to have sex but don't want a kid.

Accidents happen. Just become a condom leaked doesn't mean someone should be forced to have a child against one's will.

KFC gave away ...
.. free Chicken sandwiches too. Has the moral code become as frivilous as fast food?

William,
I will agree, it does seem pretty stupid to wait 15 weeks to decide you don't want a child, rather than taking the morning-after pill or dealing with it as soon as you realize you're pregnant...

...but some people are stupid, and I don't see unwanted children as a fit punishment for stupidity.

"Ladies, step right up
and have your free abortions and movie tickets!" What a bunch of degenerates these pro aborts are. After 9/11 the Planned Parenthood of NYC offered "free abortions". Sick! What a nice way to honor your loved one - abort his child!

Hey Donovan,
If 50,000,000 million condoms have leaked over the past three decades...shouldn't there be a recall on these devices?
We go nuts when China kills our dogs with poisoned dog treats but, say nothing when Tiller and his ugly breed of "DOKTOR" kill our kids.

sdeakins,
Are you suggesting that condoms are inherently faulty?

Condoms are actually quite effective. The problem is that people often use them incorrectly, or don't use them at all.

The vast majority of unintended pregnancies happen after unprotected sex.

As I said, some people are stupid.

Can't we just agree ...
... that Tiller has become a very-late term abortion?

Tiller smiles
from his bed in the pits of Hell...

They got a lot of explaining to do
when their time comes. I wonder how Tiller likes the heat?

No, Donovan,
you are the one who suggested condoms were leaky. Read your own comments, dudette. No one shud be punished with a baby, right?

According to some folks
logic "If it's legal, it's okie dokie". The diseased progressive mind at work validating itself.

Shouldn't the focus be
on the mental problems of the killer? I don't see this man representing pro-life. Or that the Pro-life movement should defend itself. He has serious mental problems. Anyone that knew this man, his mental disease and his violent opinions should have been suspicious of what he was capable of doing.

sdeakins,
It sometimes happens, usually when someone uses a condom that is past its expiration date, or has been kept somewhere too hot like in a car glove compartment or a wallet in the back pocket. Heat isn't very kind to latex.

As I said, some people are stupid.

And no, I don't see an unwanted child as a fit punishment for being stupid.

Donovan
So it is acceptable to kill when inconvenienced.

Joycey,
To kill what when inconvenienced? We do it all the time. We kill weeds that grow in our gardens. We kill bugs that we find in our homes. We kill animals that eat our crops.

M
If Tiller sees Mengele and Hitler at the Pearly Gates, he will not be welcomed. They will be there to escort him away from the Gates and to show him his new accommodations...in H3LL.

Oh, and for those of you who stand on the not-so-firm ground that abortion is a Constitutionally protected right, here's a reminder for you...

AT one point, it was a Constitutionally protected right for NI@@ERS to be owned as slaves until Republicans forced the Democrats to see them as humans.


The unknowing arm of injustice
"Murder is the unlawful killing of a person by another person with malice aforethought."

The fact that stabbing a living child in the head to suck out the brains does not constitute murder in your eyes says alot as to what's wrong with society.

"but some people are stupid, and I don't see unwanted children as a fit punishment for stupidity."

Being stupid does not absolve one from the consequences of their actions and does not EVER constitute taking a life out of sheer convenience. There are a few arguments from abortion proponents that deserve fair minded consideration but this is not one of them.



Tiller Takes A Dirt Nap !

Now, Dr. George Hern says he doesn’t “ know of any other doctors in the world doing late abortions like I am.”

Apparently,Hern has the life expectancy of a Nam 2nd Lieutenant in his first firefight.

What Goes Around ,Comes Around !

INDEPENDENCE DAY TEA PARTY REBELLION !

The 4Th Of July 2009 !

Rise Up !


William said, "...and does not EVER...
...constitute taking a life out of sheer convenience."

We're talking about a fetus here, not a person.

Get your priorities straight. The well-being and livelihood of an already living, sentient, self-aware human being takes *huge* precedence over a fetus that hasn't even had its first conscious thought yet.

Priorities
Donovan
Get your priorities straight. The well-being and livelihood of an already living, sentient, self-aware human being takes *huge* precedence over a fetus that hasn't even had its first conscious thought yet.

How do you know if a late term fetus (Baby to Conservatives) has no conscious thoughts

Dr. Donovan
With all your wisdom, please explain in precise terms exactly when a child has its first conscious thought? You obously believe that, during birth, a crowning baby is incapable of conscious thought. 2 maybe 3 years old? Can we kill them then if they aren't the cute little bundles of joy that we hoped for?

Self-aware? I would argue that most people under the age of 25 have not matured to the point of being self-aware, while you libs believe that most people, especially minorites and morons are incapable of achieving self-awareness. Which is why we have become a nanny state that baby sits people who, in the words of your on affiliates, can't help themselves. Is it ok to kill them?

William asked, "Can we kill them...
...then if they aren't the cute little bundles of joy that we hoped for?"

Nope; once the kid is out and breathing, all the rights of personhood are bestowed and killing the neonate would be murder. You've had *more* than enough chance in the previous 9 months to make that decision; too late now.

"I would argue that most people under the age of 25 have not matured to the point of being self-aware..."

Being aware of one's own existence as a unique being which is separate from its surroundings. I don't know too many 24 year olds who lack this quality.

stop
Stop worrying about womens rights they are not stupid. Start worrying about what the stink has done to this country. let women think for themselves and you will find the do have brains and no one can do that better for themselves then they can. Way too many other problems in this country.

Here in lies my beef
"Nope; once the kid is out and breathing, all the rights of personhood are bestowed and killing the neonate would be murder. You've had *more* than enough chance in the previous 9 months to make that decision; too late now."

So there is nothing wrong with intentionally preventing the comlpetion of birth and the breathing of the child in order to kill it?

You seem to have a disease that prevents you from seeing the reality of situations. It's human. It's alive. Your direct action killed it. You are a murderer.

At 21 weeks the mother can die and the child survive without her. That is when life begins. When it can be sustained outside the host. Not when you and your twisted views decide that it's ok.

William said, "Your direct action...
...killed it. You are a murderer."

Well, in reality, I have never had an abortion. That's physically impossible. I have also never told a woman that she should or should not have an abortion.

As I said before, it's none of my business.

"So there is nothing wrong with intentionally preventing the comlpetion of birth and the breathing of the child in order to kill it?"

No, not as I see it. A fetus isn't a person. I would prefer that if a woman decides to have an abortion for some reason, she do it sooner rather than later, but again...none of my business.

And none of yours for that matter, either, William.

Donovan 8:34
Slavery was "in line with the law" at one time. Still didn't make it morally correct!!

Natural Law
The concept of Natural Law says that by virtue of being human, you instinctively know that certain things are morally wrong; abortion for convenience being one of those.

Those who believe that it is morally right to provide abortion on demand, whether it is legal or not, are not fully rational human beings.

Donald said,
"The concept of Natural Law says..."

Allow me to correct you; there is nothing 'natural' about law.

Law is an entirely man-made construct.

The power of language
He who controls the language controls the debate. That is why I won't call them "clinics". They aren't. I prefer the term "facility" or "mill".

I don't know of a single
human being who is aware of his existence whie asleep or unconscious, no matter his age! Yet we don't doubt his humanity.

As to the 24 yr old, he's very much aware of his own existence, but not yet quite aware of others', except as it stands in relation to his own. This is why the 18-34 single crowd tends to support abortion-it's all about them.

Abortion Bail Out for Minors
D.C. Abortion Bailout Holds Serious Consequences for Minors
__________
Congress is considering allowing your tax dollars to fund abortions in D.C., a move that could lead to an increase in abortions among minors.
_________
June 5, 2009

The House of Representatives is currently considering whether or not to approve President Obama’s recommendation that tax dollars be used to fund abortions in the nation’s capital. In his 2009-2010 budget proposal, President Obama called for the repeal of the Dornan Amendment, which prohibits taxpayer funding of abortion in Washington D.C. (with exceptions in cases of the health of the mother, rape or incest).

The effects of this step of the abortion bailout loom large for a specific sector of the population: teenagers. The District of Columbia is included in a small group of states (3 states plus D.C.) that explicitly grants minors the right to an abortion.

Going further, D.C. does not require minors to obtain parental consent before having an abortion. Your taxpayer dollars could soon be going to funding abortions for girls as young as 12 years-old. In addition to D.C. residents, your money could pay for the abortions of minors who have been brought to D.C. to avoid parental consent laws in their home states.

Already, Washington D.C. has one of the highest teenage abortion rates nationwide, with over 40% of teenage pregnancies ending in abortion. Should taxpayer funds become available for all D.C. abortions, the abortion rate among minors (teens, ages 12 years-old and up) could increase dramatically.

Please take action to defend life and to keep more of our nation’s youth from facing the tragedy of abortion.

Contact your Representative and Senators today and them you don’t want your tax dollars to fund abortions in D.C.!

http://www.sba-list.org/site/c.ddJBKJNsFqG/b.4009925/k.BE63 /Home.htm

Abortion
I have flagged all of the anti-LIFE, Culture of Death, comments as Offensive. All Culture of Death talk is highly OFFENSIVE HATE SPEECH to normal humans & needs to be Outlawed in America.

Stop the PCMoron nazis now!!

Donovan
'Murder' has a very strictly defined legal definition.

Murder is the unlawful killing of a person by another person with malice aforethought.


*****************

You might want to take Scott Petersen's appeal. He, like others, was charged, convicted and sentenced for the murders of the woman and her unborn child.

Further, not all murder definitions include malice aforethought, see: felony murder and the various manslaugthers.



This guy
who murdered the "doctor" also had a hand in the deaths of those babies in Philly's death give away.

What an idiot!

Answer the question
Donovan...


I'm still waiting for an answer of how you know if an unborn baby has no conscious thoughts?

Donovan
I beg to differ on your concept of law. Yes, there are written laws passed by governments and then there are Natural Laws that "should" be instinctive to humans. These DO NOT have to be codified as they are understood to exist.

For example: Nazi war criminals were tried, convicted and executed for "Crimes Against Humanity". Was this a written law? No, but it was understood by the world and never questioned that these Nazis should have known that what they did was wrong because they were human beings.

The same thing happened to Saddam Hussein.

Again, I submit that if you think abortion for convenience is moral, then you are NOT a rational human being.

Obama/Coward/Hypocrite
Abortion on demand, free, help me. Late term abortions, sucking the brain out of a helpless baby...yet Obama and the rest of his gaggle thinks it inhumane to water board a real live terrorist. What a crock. You are a real man, Obama. What hypocrites and cowards you all are. And that is the character of whom America selected to represent them...WAKE UP!

Why didn't Tiller do this?
If Tiller was such a great humanitarian, as our liberal media wants us to believe, why didn't he do abortions for free? His "humanitarian" efforts certainly fattened his bank account.

that sounds appropriate...
let's murder more babies in honor of the baby killer....after all according to the obama new your times, tiller the baby killer is a hero.

just words, just speeches,
roy

St. Denis said, "Further, not all...
...murder definitions include malice aforethought, see: felony murder and the various manslaugthers."

Denis, all murder charges include malice. If there's no malice, it isn't murder.

Manslaughter and murder are both forms of homicide, but manslaughter is not murder.

Michael asked, "I'm still waiting for...
...an answer of how you know if an unborn baby has no conscious thoughts?"

Because the brain isn't nearly developed enough yet.

Ask any neurologist or developmental psychologist.

Donald said, "...and then there are...
...Natural Laws that "should" be instinctive to humans."

Again...there is nothing 'natural' about law. It's entirely a man-made construct.

It isn't natural, let alone worthy of capitalization :-P

wow
Baby killing for free? What a deal!

Don't expect it to continue... baby killing is big business in the US and Tiller made a fortune killing babies right up until the momma was dilating to 7cm for any reason up to and including a hangnail.


Donovan
...an answer of how you know if an unborn baby has no conscious thoughts?"

Because the brain isn't nearly developed enough yet.

Ask any neurologist or developmental psychologist.

So what your saying is that until a baby goes complete full term it's brain is not developed enough for thought. Explain a premature birth then. Does the baby not have thoughts until it is developed for 9 months? If unborn babies have consious thougths, then you have no arguement for late term abortion.

No comparison,
I can't believe that this type of disgust is true, why would a clinic go as far as to give free abortions in honor of the doc. This is horrible
But for you people that is trying to compare My President to this doc is asurd.
The President does not condone this behavior you people is taking what the President has said what he believes and twisted his opinion into something of disgust.
But i expect that from white racist repigs such as yourself

Michael said, "So what your saying is...
...that until a baby goes complete full term it's brain is not developed enough for thought."

Oh, no...an infant doesn't start having conscious, active thoughts until well after birth.

Human babies are actually all born premature, compared to other animals. Our heads are far too large; if we waited until we were truly fully developed to be born, it would kill both the neonate and the mother every time.

That's why a newborn deer can walk half an hour after being born, but a human doesn't start walking for a year or two.

Donovan
...murder definitions include malice aforethought, see: felony murder and the various manslaugthers."

"Denis, all murder charges include malice. If there's no malice, it isn't murder."


Malice with regard to premeditation or malice relative to felony murder?

Premeditation would represent, in murder, the mens rea of the criminal and his/her's planning, intent, etc., or it can happen in a split second; i.e., there was NO intent to murder prior to the onset of the crime.

Felony murder has specific categories. A felony murder might include the rape of a child that results in the death of the child by accident or the death of a bankteller during a robbery (again, no plan to murder) or the death of a person inside of a building where the defendant committed arson, but did not know that the victim was inside, etc.

"Manslaughter and murder are both forms of homicide, but manslaughter is not murder."

Two points. Manslaughter is a form of murder and it is also a lesser included in a 1st or 2nd degree "murder" case. The latter is to insure that the defendant is convicted of some charge when the trier of fact determines that the prosecution's case-in-chief does not meet the burden of proof and/or there is a failure to meet all prongs required to secure the conviction on the 1st or 2nd charges.

Unlike other jurisdictions, LA has the Civil Code, which is based on the Napoleonic Code. Manslaughter is defined within the murder section of the Code.

You still haven't told us why a murderer can face 2 murder charges even though he only killed the woman, who has the "personhood" under your legal reasoning.

St. Denis said, "...or the death of a...
...person inside of a building where the defendant committed arson, but did not know that the victim was inside, etc."

I think you'd have a hell of a time pinning someone on murder for that. Reckless endangerment, negligent homicide, manslaughter...sure. But murder? I'm not so sure.

"Manslaughter is a form of murder..."

It really isn't. A form of homicide, sure. But murder is a very specific form of homicide, and manslaughter is another.

I also don't see how someone can be charged both with manslaughter and murder for the same crime...

"You still haven't told us why a murderer can face 2 murder charges even though he only killed the woman, who has the "personhood" under your legal reasoning."

If a pregnant woman is murdered and she was not planning on having an abortion...that's fine with me, if for no other reason than to nail the convict with an extra hundred years.

Donavan
"Oh, no...an infant doesn't start having conscious, active thoughts until well after birth."

So you're saying that it's okay to kill infants, too?

DONOVAN
Oh, no...an infant doesn't start having conscious, active thoughts until well after birth.

So would it be ok to kill a baby that is a week old? Your arguement is not making sense even if you facts were correct.

Ken asked, "So you're saying that...
...it's okay to kill infants, too?"

No Ken, I am not saying that. As I stated earlier, once born, that kid has all the rights of a person.

Donovan
Conscious thought is not active when a person is asleep or unconscious, either. Yet unborn babies exhibit brain waves before Mom even knows she's pregnant.

Shall we then define humanity as being in place only when a person is awake and cognizant of his surroundings?

If it's not a baby, then you're not pregnant. Right?

Did we ever get confimation?
I still don't see any reliable reporting of this news tidbit in any other source. Right now, I don't believe a word of it given that this woman is the only one in America reporting on it, except for echoes in partisan blogs.

What't the truth here? Of course, the topic is just grist for the usual mill on this tiresome subject, but in the interests of reality - IS THIS STORY TRUE AND CAN ANYONE POINT TO A RELIABLE SECOND SOURCE?

AliveinHim said, "Conscious thought...
...is not active when a person is asleep or unconscious, either."

Sure it is. Dreams are conscious thoughts. When you dream, you are aware of yourself.

Moot point anyway, since a person who is asleep still retains the capacity for self-awareness and sapience. A fetus has not yet developed these features at all.

"Yet unborn babies exhibit brain waves..."

And the Sun produces radio waves, but that don't mean it's playing music!

Donovan
StD: ...person inside of a building where the defendant committed arson, but did not know that the victim was inside, etc."

D: I think you'd have a hell of a time pinning someone on murder for that. Reckless endangerment, negligent homicide, manslaughter...sure. But murder? I'm not so sure.

StD: It happens ALL of the time in felony murder cases. Arson (especially for insurance fraud) where a person dies is MURDER. Think about the arsonist in CA, whose deeds resulted in the deaths of numerous firemen --- he was tried and convicted of their murders. In fact, it was a 1st degree murder conviction.

StD: "Manslaughter is a form of murder..."

D: It really isn't. A form of homicide, sure. But murder is a very specific form of homicide, and manslaughter is another.

StD: Are you an attorney? I am.

D: I also don't see how someone can be charged both with manslaughter and murder for the same crime...

StD: Lesser includeds are offered to the jury ALL of the time. They have nothing to do with the "charges" brought by the DA after the defendant is arrested.

StD: "You still haven't told us why a murderer can face 2 murder charges even though he only killed the woman, who has the "personhood" under your legal reasoning."

D: If a pregnant woman is murdered and she was not planning on having an abortion...that's fine with me, if for no other reason than to nail the convict with an extra hundred years.

StD: Any plan to have an abortion is NOT involved since the state would have to prove that which may be unknown. A bankteller, who is into her 4th month of pregnancy, may not know whether she might want or need a late term abortion when she is MURDERED in a bank robbery.

Donovan
No Ken, I am not saying that. As I stated earlier, once born, that kid has all the rights of a person.

Slave owners had all kinds of reasons why a slave was not person just as liberals have reasons why a baby is not a person until they choose

Donovan said...
**Oh, no...an infant doesn't start having conscious, active thoughts until well after birth.**

I was present for the birth of my first grandson. His mother was across the room, some 20 feet from where he lay in his bassinet. The doctor asked my daughter a question and she laughed and answered. The little guy's head whipped around toward the sound of his mother talking. That was conscious thought.

How do you rationalize your position? I honestly don't understand. If it's wanted, it's a child. If it's not wanted, it's a blob of tissue, to be ripped out and discarded like used kleenex. As Greg Gutfeld said in his blog on Big Hollywood yesterday: "But I do have some definition of what being “pro-life” is. It goes like this: if you look at the people you love - your child, your sister, your spouse - and cannot imagine them never being born, then you’re a prolifer. But if you can imagine your loved ones never being alive - then congrats, you’re a pro choicer - and I admire your gumption. Oddly, I’ve never met a pro-choice advocate who can say she wished she’d aborted her obviously adorable child (I’m still waiting!)."

I'm waiting, too.

Donavan
But you're whole argument seems to be based on the premise that an unborn child does not qualify as a person because it is (supposedly) incapable of conscious thought. If newborn babies are also incapable of unconscious thought, why isn't it justifiable to kill them?

Did they give coupons or rainchecks?
How sweet and kind to give away abortions. It's just like Christmas or a birthday , err maybe not a birthday...

Anyway, in the era of bailouts and giveaways, it was just a matter of time before abortions were given away...

I wonder what's next...Strike that. I don't want to know what these creepy people will think of next...

St. Denis said, "A bankteller, who is...
...into her 4th month of pregnancy, may not know whether she might want or need a late term abortion when she is MURDERED in a bank robbery."

Two things:

1) I'd still be fine charging the murderer with 2 murders, again if only to nail the killer with an extra hundred years.

2) I don't think I would consider an abortion during month 4 to be "late term".

IdahoGal said, "The little guy's head...
...whipped around toward the sound of his mother talking. That was conscious thought."

That was a response to a stimulus. A reflex action. No conscious thought was involved. The little guy didn't think to himself, "I heard a sound and I am going to turn my head." He hadn't even developed a self-identity, a sense of "me", yet.

"But if you can imagine your loved ones never being alive..."

I can imagine all kinds of things that aren't real. Imagination is fun that way.

But you're getting too caught up in emotion. You're "feeling" too much.

Decisions like this needs to be made in a pragmatic, un-emotional, stoic, detached and purely rational sort of way.

There is no room for "feelings" in decisions this important.

For Those Who...
think Tiller operated legally, read this:

http://www.cashill.com/regional/sebelius_must.htm

Ken asked, "If newborn babies are...
...are also incapable of unconscious thought, why isn't it justifiable to kill them?"

Ken, I work with teenagers. I know some 15 year olds who are more qualified to vote (based on intelligence and knowledge of the issues) than many 30 year olds out there.

Alas, we as a society have to set a standard rule somewhere. So, we have decided that the age of 18 is when someone gets to vote, no matter whether that person is otherwise qualified.

So it is with birth; that is the moment when we as a society have decided to assign the rights and privileges of being a person.

We have to set a standard somewhere, and birth is the most logical time.

Slavery v. Roe

Justice Blackmun, who authored the Roe v Wade decision, later wrote that his decision was faulty because he had used the same legal reasoning that the Supreme Court had used in Dred Scott; i.e., personhood for some, but not all.

The uber Liberal Harvard Law professor, Lawrence Tribe, a Constitutional scholar, concurs with Blackmun and believes that the Roe legal reasoning is faulty. Again, the problem is the Dred Scott decision's definition of "personhood".

Donovan said...
**
There is no room for "feelings" in decisions this important.**

Chilling. May God have mercy on your soul.

Hey, great!
Now lets open up the execution units at the local prison to offer up some free assisted suicide!
What a pathetic and disgusting world we have created...

Donovan
"A bankteller, who is...
...into her 4th month of pregnancy, may not know whether she might want or need a late term abortion when she is MURDERED in a bank robbery."

Two things:

1) I'd still be fine charging the murderer with 2 murders, again if only to nail the killer with an extra hundred years.

2) I don't think I would consider an abortion during month 4 to be "late term".



Donovan, I believe that I wrote that the bankteller may not know on the day of her murder whether she might WANT or NEED a late-term abortion at some point in the future. Because of this problem, your argument fall apart, legally.

For Denise (11:25)
An even worse detail: Roe was based on a cent-percent FABRICATED case, while in Dred Scott there was a real person who had been enslaved.

Donavan
"So it is with birth; that is the moment when we as a society have decided to assign the rights and privileges of being a person."

Society once approved of slavery. Did that make it right?

"We have to set a standard somewhere, and birth is the most logical time."

Says who?

St. Denis said, " Because of this...
...problem, your argument fall apart, legally."

I wasn't attempting to make a legal argument, counselor ;-)

Ken asked, "Says who?"
Says the majority of Americans, the Judiciary, the law...I think that's enough.

Natural Law
Donovan,

It does NOT matter if you are Pro-Choice and believe that abortion should be made available for convenience; and even if there are laws on the books that allow it, I am saying this:

IF you think that abortion for convenience is not evil, then YOU ARE NOT A FULLY FUNCTIONING HUMAN BEING, because you have not developed a normal concept of right and wrong.

Donavan
"Says the majority of Americans, the Judiciary, the law...I think that's enough."

So if the majority of Americans, the Judiciary, and the law approved of genocide, would that make it justifiable?

Donald said, "IF you think that...
...abortion for convenience is not evil..."

Well Donald, I don't believe in "evil" whatsoever.

I don't buy into the concept of theological, cosmic, good versus evil.

Ken asked, "So if the majority of...
...Americans, the Judiciary, and the law approved of genocide, would that make it justifiable?"

That could never happen in America.

Next question?

DONOVAN
I am all for abortion in some cases.Since 70% of black pregnancies are out of wedlock and 50% end up in abortion,there are that many less future felons and government parasites feeding off the taxpayer host.That many less unloved,self-loathing liberals like you who come here to post incendiary comments to get a reaction from normal people so you can feel good about your own inadequacies.And no,I'm not a racist.That all ended when the country elected a Kenyan half-breed from Wakiki Beach.

Richard said, "Since 70% of black...
...pregnancies are out of wedlock and 50% end up in abortion,there are that many less future felons and government parasites feeding off the taxpayer host."

Wow, Richard. Just...wow.

That's mighty horrible of you.

Donavan
"That could never happen in America."

That's what people once said about abortion-on-demand.

You're dodging my question. If society approves of genocide, does that make it justifiable?

Donovan
"Well Donald, I don't believe in 'evil' whatsoever."

Obviously.

Yet you said to Richard: "That's mighty horrible of you."

If you don't believe in evil, then what was so horrible about his statement?

Ken said, "That's what people once...
...said about abortion-on-demand."

Ken, abortion has been legal somewhere in the US pretty much since the beginning.

Ken asked, "If you don't believe in...
...evil, then what was so horrible about his statement?"

I don't believe in objective, cosmic evil...but that doesn't mean I don't see certain actions as either good or bad.

I don't believe in evil, yet I still believe that murder is wrong.

Philly Has No Tax Base
Have any of you posters been to Philly? Let's just say that our City of Brotherly love is now a ghetto where murdering cops is commonplace. Filthydelphia should be avoided at all costs, unless, of course, you need your fix.

Donovan, Citations Please
"abortion has been legal somewhere in the US pretty much since the beginning."

Citations, please.

Abortion has not always been "legal" somewhere in the US pretty much since the beginning.

Murdering tiller was wrong. But should..
we really honor him? let's take a look at how tiller did his work, and then reassess whether we should be holding "candlelight vigils" for him: A woman, according to Kansas law, could claim she needed an abortion because of "mental distress". Tiller, in order to perform one of these procedures would inject a saline solution into the mother's womb. This chemical cocktail would literally burn the child within--before the baby succumbed to suffocation. Then the woman was induced into labor and instructed to sit on something most of us would describe as a toilet. The abortion was completed when the baby was delivered by the mother, who was quickly ushered out of the area, so she wouldn't see the results of Dr. Tiller's labor and what should have been her own.

Yes, many pregnancies are terminated in dire medical circumstances. But these represent a tiny fraction of the million-plus abortions that take place in this country every year. (Almost half of that number are repeat abortions; around a quarter are third or fourth procedures.) The same is true of the more than 100,000 abortions that are performed after the first trimester: Very few involve medical complications of any kind. Even the now-outlawed “partial-birth” procedure, which abortion-rights supporters initially argued was only employed in the direst of dire situations, turned out to be used primarily for purely elective abortions.

Dr. George Tiller committed terrible crimes against the human race. He aborted 60,000 babies... More here: http://www.mindreign.com/en/mindshare/World-Politics-and-C urrent-Events/Abortion-and-Tragedy/sl34045952bp277cpp10pn1. html

Hey Donovan! Yesterday
You stated that you could never, in so many words, be an impregnator.
I asked you the following question in my 10:20 PM post:
"Are you a female, a homosexual or have you had a vasectomy? I know I'm imposing on your privacy, so please accept my apology."
If you are not comfortable providing an answer, that's okay. Shyness is an admirable trait.
Have a great day.



183 posts
and still no actual citation to this being an actual story.

Jillian???

Jilliannea? Why the post after post...
http://www.lifenews.com/state4221.html

What is wrong with you?

Don't you read the news?

St. Denis
You are right. Abortion has not always been legal, but often it has not been the subject of criminal law one or the other. Regardless, and given that abortion has been with humanity probably for several thousand years, do you expect that if it were made illegal it would go away, or simply vanish underground where it often hides during periods where the law criminalizes the practice? I don't see women ever yielding total suzerainty over their bodies to the state no matter how draconian the panealties or how socially unacceptable the practice. Do you?

St. Denis,
In the eighteenth century and prior, a fetus in utero was not considered "alive" until the quickening...which is not a reference to Highlander but in fact refers to when the fetus is first felt to move in the uterus.

Prior to that time, ridding oneself of a pregnancy was considered fine.

Prior to Roe v. Wade, there were many states where abortion was perfectly legal. Alaska, Hawaii and New York are the three that jump immediately to mind.

Donovan
"Ken, abortion has been legal somewhere in the US pretty much since the beginning."

I'd be interested in seeing your documentation for that bit of info. By the time of Roe vs. Wade, it was illegal in most states. Even when the Roe decision was made, most people predicted that abortion would never be used simply as a form of birth control, but that is precisely what has happened.

You still haven't answered my question. If society and the courts approved of genocide, would that make it right?

Willibeaux,
I'd prefer to let you use your surely vivid imagination. I'd hate to deprive you of a chance for some fun ;-)

Try some logical thought, Donovan
Donovan writes -
"We have to set a standard (for assigning rights) somewhere, and birth is the most logical time. "

Unfortunately, you're wrong, Donovan. Birth is the most convenient time, not the most logical. (But let's be honest, 99.9% of abortions are about convenience, not "women's health care".)

The most logical time to assign a person rights would be at conception - when that person has unique DNA, and is a living, growing, human being. If one wanted to argue that a heartbeat or detectable brain activity constituted life, I would even be willing to listen to those arguments (even though I may personally disagree). However, because it is difficult to pinpoint these moments in time, for the sake of convenience, we choose the time of birth.

Consider also - a 2003 Newsweek poll revealed that 84% of Americans believe that killing a pregnant woman should be categorized as a double homicide. So let's make up our minds - does the unborn baby have rights, or not?

It never ceases to amaze me that those who hysterically defend the rights of terrorists, murderers, and other scum will not lift a finger to defend the most innocent and helpless among us.

Okay Donovan! Fun
it will be. Remember the Devil hates a coward.
Catch ya later whatever you are.

Conscious Thought
If a baby in utero doesn't have a conscious thought then how is it that songs that are sung to the baby during the pregnancy are the only songs that sooth a baby once born. How is that a baby knows his/her mother's voice.

My son was born 2 months early. His birth was a miracle, but for the will of the Lord and the skill of the doctors, neither of us would have lived.

I wasn't able to see my son for two days. I was finally wheeled down to see him with all my family standing around. Everybody was talking and there was no response, no movement until I spoke to my son. He turned his head and opened his eyes while I spoke to him. He remembered my voice which means there is conscious thought.

Those who don't believe a baby is a baby until it is born, have never carried a baby and felt it kick or felt the baby's hiccups.

Dr. Tiller is not a man who should be honored with anything especially free abortion. He was a monster.

For those of you who believe a woman has a choice, well she does . . . she has a choice to take responsibility for her body and not get pregnant in the first place. It is not rocket science.


Yarm
nothing in that post has one bit of actual sourcing in it. Anything in any Philly paper, or news station?

I don't believe bloggers, and when bloggers like Jillian (who has been known to fudge facts and make up misleading headlines) base their headlined blog on an unsourced blog, gee, you think it didn't happen?

meanwhile, almost 200 posts about an unsourced blog's report? Seriously, you folks need to understand how news is supposed to be reported, and to be more discerning. I live in Philly, read the Inquirer, and the Daily News, nada, nada, nada.

Ken,
As a matter of fact, prior to Roe v. Wade, abortion was legal upon request in 4 states (Washington, Alaska, Hawaii, and New York), legal in case of danger to woman's health, rape or incest, or likely damaged fetus in 13 states (CA, OR, NM, CO, KS, AR, FL, GA, SC, NC, VA, MD, DE), legal in case of danger to woman's health in 2 states (AL, MA), legal in case of rape in 1 state (MS), and only absolutely illegal in 30 states.

So there was very little difficulty in a woman who really wanted one to find an abortion.

And no, genocide would not be justifiable merely because a particular society said it was.

Texas Lady said, "Those who don't...
...believe a baby is a baby until it is born, have never carried a baby and felt it kick or felt the baby's hiccups."

Once again, this is nothing but emotional impressionism.

Emotions have no place in discussions like these. They need to be based on cold hard logic and reason. Stoic and unfeeling.

Donovan
"In the eighteenth century and prior, a fetus in utero was not considered "alive" until the quickening...which is not a reference to Highlander but in fact refers to when the fetus is first felt to move in the uterus.

Prior to that time, ridding oneself of a pregnancy was considered fine."

I kinda, sorta KNOW what quickening is, but abortion has been against the Catholic Church's tenets for centuries. The same is true for other religions. See: the allegations, charges, trial and execution of Anne Boleyn in 1435.

The bottomline is that abortion was not always legal in this country, as you stated.

"Prior to Roe v. Wade, there were many states where abortion was perfectly legal. Alaska, Hawaii and New York are the three that jump immediately to mind."

First of all, this was a State's Rights issue. Secondly, in those 3 states, abortion had not always been legal.

Donovan
"So there was very little difficulty in a woman who really wanted one to find an abortion."

So you agree that Roe was an unnecessary decision? Then why shouldn't it be overturned?

"And no, genocide would not be justifiable merely because a particular society said it was."

But you say abortion is justifiable simply because society says so. Why the inconsistency?

Donovan
May you NEVER be able to have a child as you have no values for life. I won't even ask GOD to have mercy on your soul - you will spend eternity burning, of that I am sure! Tiller will be there waiting for you - NO MERCY!!

Donovan
"Emotions have no place in discussions like these. They need to be based on cold hard logic and reason. Stoic and unfeeling."

Yeah, you're a real humanitarian, aren't you? As I said, it's quite obvious that you don't believe in evil.

St. Denis said,
"Secondly, in those 3 states, abortion had not always been legal."

I know that you don't know that for a fact.

Depraved
and disgusting. Some people have very, very cold hearts.

DumboCraphead Party Jihad!!!
This goes so far in explaining what we real Americans are dealing with when we deal with any of these neo-Marxist NObama worshipping baby killers....

Their blood lust is so elevated over their head butcher (Tiller) being killed by someone nobody ever heard of, their revenge is to fling the doors open on the DumboCraphead Party sponsored Baby Slaughtering Houses for FREE!!!!!

IOW: The DemWitOCraphead Party wants to butcher all the babies they can, just to show the world how much they loved their head baby butcher.

I swear, these NObama worshippers look and act just like a bunch of Islamo-Jihadist.

Ken said, "So you agree that Roe was...
...an unnecessary decision?"

No, I'm in favor of it. I don't think medical decisions are any business of the government. They belong in the doctor's office, not a bureaucrat's desk.

CINDY said, "...you will spend...
...eternity burning, of that I am sure!"

Yikes, your god sends a person to hell just for holding an opinion?

That sounds like a pretty awful god to believe in.

Good thing it's B.S.

abortion promo's
"3 for the price of 2"
"Frequent Killers Punch Card"
"Two-fer Tuesdays"
"Bonus Murder. Kill your Baby and we'll off your dog or cat at no charge."

Wow, this free "Tiller the Killer" abortion promo really gets the marketing mind going for the genius' at this KillBabyClinic.

A little story to add
In 2003, a late-pregnant (age about 41) poor mother of two sons arrived at Achampet PHC and asked the presiding doctor to perform an abortion. The doctor, and her (doctor's) mum told the woman that abortion would be a sin, and that they would help financially to raise the child (they did, by hiring the woman to clean the PHC).

In May 2009, the doctor visited the clinic with her US-citizen husband and introduced the almost aborted girl (and her mum, stil employed as the PHC's cleaner) to her husband--and gave the child a dress (and to mum a handbag) purchased in US for the occasion of the visit.

(I happen to be the doctor's husband--we were married Tax-day 2006 in Detroit area, 355 days after I was naturalised)

Donovan
"Secondly, in those 3 states, abortion had not always been legal."

D: I know that you don't know that for a fact.

StD: You named three states --- Alaska, Hawaii, and New York.

The fact is that "legal" abortion is a comparatively new phenomenon when compared to them more than 225 years of American history and jurisprudence.


You might be interested to know that several countries in Latin America, ie close to home, have banned abortion in all cases.

Tiller abortion
Let's just tell the family and the clinic that Tiller's death was just a very, very late term abortion and that should make them feel better about it, kind of like the way they feel about those poor babies that they murdered.

cold hard logic and reason
Why do people think that referring to the unborn as a fetus somehow means its less of a human?

Fetus comes from the latin word for offspring. If the offspring of a human being is a human being, then the fetus is a human being. Offspring does not require birth to be called offspring, neither does the fetus(aka offspring) require birth to be called a human being.

To add to Denise's 13:07
One of the Latin American countries to ban abortion was...Nicaragua, under a newly-reelected commiequeer president Daniel Ortega!

St. Denis said, "You might be...
...interested to know that several countries in Latin America, ie close to home, have banned abortion in all cases."

I was aware of this, in fact. It is true of several countries in South America.

It's absolutely crazy, but that's religion for you. Absolutely crazy.

A Society is Judged
.. on how it cares for its most vulnerable citizens, in this case, unborn babies who would have lived if given the chance. What demographic will be the next targeted for "abortion" because of their "inconvenience"? Gang members kill each other every day, because murder is only one activity in which they engage. Tiller was no different.

How Precious!
Isn't this so precious to have unborn babies slaughtered in the womb in someone's honor.

A legacy only Tiller would be proud of!

Why do you people
waste your time on the likes of Donovan.

This person's attitude is that of a Nazi: if an individual is inconvenient to society, dispose of him.

Donovan says that only rational thought should be employed in this discussion. That means there is no room for conscience.

Lots of people are a drain on society, and if all we did was respect rationale, there would not be any reason to protect those people.

This was precisely the attitude of Hitler. Hitler advocated the disposal of the sick, the elderly and the mentally handicapped. In other words, anyone who did not enrich Adolph Hitler did not deserve to live.

In Communist countries, those who opposed communism were often sent off to insane asylums for reprogramming, and if those people happened to die, no big loss. So even political dissenters are disposable.

When you argue with someone so obviously depraved as Donovan, you only validate his arguments. Call him what he is, a Nazi and a Hitler lover.

Donovan
"It's absolutely crazy, but that's religion for you. Absolutely crazy."


One is Ortega's Nicaragua, which is Marxist or Communist. I'm not quite certain that an Atheist Ortega would agree with Atheist Donovan.

Here's what James Wilson,
a framer of the Constitution, had to say about when life begins:

"With consistency, beautiful and undeviating, human life, from its commencement to its close, is protected by the common law. In the contemplation of law, life begins when the infant is first able to stir in the womb. By the law, life is protected not only from immediate destruction, but from every degree of actual violence, and, in some cases, from every degree of danger."

So, it does appear that the opinion of the Founders was that life starts not at conception, but at some point afterward. Hm...

St. Denis,
As of the 2005 Census, 58.5% of Nicaragua is Catholic and another 21.6% is Evangelical.

That's more than enough religious insanity to make abortion illegal.

quoting James Wilson
who didn't care enough about 'life' to get rid of slavery? Spare us what he thought about little white males in 1787--he didn't care about giving the vote to women, rights to blacks, or even the vote to non-landowners, at least not enough to include it in that document so many of you think is somehow dispositive of all things.

where's the actual citation for the original post, folks? You've got nothing. This thread is based on a lie.

TYPICAL LIBERALISM
This is the latest pure example of why liberalism is insanity...

Liberals will claim that waterboarding is "TORTURE" yet the MURDER of a baby in the womb is considered "CHOICE". You HYPOCRITES!!

"Story"
If you folks expended as much mental energy on evaluating the "facts" presented in this story as you did on being snarky and mean-spirited to each other, you would realize it is false:

1) An abortion clinic decides to honor a fallen comerade with free abortions for a day, but doesn't advertise this special, or even refer to it on its website.

2) There is not mention whatever of this event anywhere in Philadelphia's media outlets, only on blogs of peoople with an axe to grind.

People who bolster their point of view by making up stories out of whole cloth undermine their own position.

Donovan
"No, I'm in favor of it."

I suspected as much. Yet you claim abortion was legal practically everywhere before Roe. Why the inconsistency?

"I don't think medical decisions are any business of the government."

So the government has no right to decide if a doctor is guilty of malpractice?

"They belong in the doctor's office, not a bureaucrat's desk."

Tell that to the Democrats who are pushing for government-run health care.

Alternatives to Abortion Giveaway
For 27 years in the heart of Philadelphia, Alpha Pregnancy Services has been offering help and hope to women and families facing pregnancy and related concerns free of charge. Grief following abortion is one of the concerns related to pregnancy with which we deal. So anyone out there who aborted a baby at no financial cost yesterday and is surprised by grief today, is welcome to contact us. Our staff of Registered Nurses and Social Workers will offer an hour of time at no charge during which she can talk of the confusion or grief she is experiencing and find information on resources to help her. Fathers are welcome too.

Because every human life, no matter how small, is precious to us, we decry the murder of George Tiller and believe that his killer should be fully prosecuted. Through our 27 years of service, our clients have often demonstrated to us just how short-sighted and punitive abortion is in relation to the heart-felt problems they face in life. We have the privilege of serving women and families with long-term, life-giving, and life-altering solutions to problems in pregnancy. Alpha's staff loves using its professional preparation to serve at a high professional level in preserving and enhancing life.

Ken,
Oh, if the government attempted to mandate that everyone must belong to a state-operated health system, I'd be adamantly opposed.

On the other hand, if the government offered a low-cost health care option that someone could choose instead of private care, that's entirely different.

Responding to Ken's 13:44
Donovan is a prime example of Ronnie's comment "ever notice that all those in favour of abortion were carried to full-term?".

thank you John
they made this up. Out of whole cloth.

And abortion is legal folks. Waterboarding isn't. If you want to make abortion illegal like waterboarding, do it.

Donovan

"As of the 2005 Census, 58.5% of Nicaragua is Catholic and another 21.6% is Evangelical.

That's more than enough religious insanity to make abortion illegal."


It does not matter what the religious compostition is in a country where a Marxist/Communist "owns" the lawmaking chambers and the judiciary.