Townhall.com, Where Your Opinion Counts
Talk Radio:   Bill Bennett   Mike Gallagher   Dennis Prager   Michael Medved   Hugh Hewitt   
BREAKING NEWS  LeftArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican   RightArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican  
Columns, funnies & more in your inbox!
  • Check the boxes and send us your email address to receveive your free newsletter
  • Your daily must-read of conservative columns, cartoons and news. Coulter, Sowell, Krauthammer and more.
  • Townhall.com’s weekly inside scoop on what’s happening behind the scenes in the world of politics. When news breaks, we report.
  • Signup to receive the latest daily Townhall cartoons
Thursday, March 27, 2008
Jerry Agar :: Townhall.com Columnist
A Report from the White Community
by Jerry Agar
Vote on It:
Average Vote:
[+] Text [-]
 
Poll
Will the Dems' health care Christmas Present to America be an improvement or detriment to our health care system?


I did not spend a moment today thinking about how to keep the black man down. Just another day.

I can’t remember ever getting a memo about, or an invitation to a strategy meeting on keeping the corporation white.

So stop telling me everything is my fault.

Don’t get me wrong. White people are great organizers. Look at all those St. Paddy’s Day events we recently held. We just are not organizing against blacks.

I am very aware of how well thought-out the vicious racism of the past was and that it was organized by white people. Some of them were judges, and politicians and business leaders; the so-called respectable people of the community. I would apologize for that, but I wasn’t there. That makes it no less a crime.

I am aware that racism still exists. It is a sad part of the human condition. But it is no longer institutional in America and to the extent it exists, it runs both ways.

But as we have heard over and over again lately from the pastor of an 8,000 member church, one of his 20-year parishioners who is running for president, and all of their media enablers, the problems in the black community today are still the fault of us white people. White guys in particular.

In the Chicago Sun-Times columnist Mary Mitchell quotes a spokeswoman for Rev. Wright, Iva Carruthers, commenting on Obama’s speech. “The sad thing about this is, the people who really need to understand the message – white males – I don’t know if it will have any effect.”

Barack Obama calls for the white community to understand that “investing in the health, welfare and education of black and brown and white children will ultimately help all of America prosper.”

How much larger does he think America’s investment in those areas can get? In real dollars education spending is multiples of what it was four decades ago and test scores have hardly changed. If we have failed perhaps it is time for less government, the prevailing failing authority. Let’s call onto the carpet the people responsible. Is it those evil, suburban white guys again? Well, shame on them – no wait – it turns out that practically all of our big cities are run by liberal Democrats, many of them black. Education is dominated by a teachers union run by liberals, not white Republicans.

Why is Obama willing to let salvation lie in the hands of white people? Would he not be more useful preaching a message of black pride, black ability and self reliance, rather than one of waiting for someone else to love you and hoping, in vain, that the government will? If you think you will succeed, you probably will. If you think you will fail, you undoubtedly will.

The single most important contributing factor to multi-generational poverty is the fact that 70 percent of black children are born to single mothers. Are white guys getting these ladies pregnant and then abandoning mother and child? If so, shame on those white guys. Something should be done. Are black guys the love ‘em and leave ‘em culprits? Yes? Well, shame on them then and leave the white guys out of it. Shame on the women as well.

Too high a percentage of young black men are in prison. Are the courts unfair? We should fix that if it is true, but as Bill Cosby has pointed out, you can argue that a black man getting a tougher sentence for dealing crack than a white guy does for selling cocaine is unfair, or you could stop dealing crack! That’ll fool them. They won’t be able to lock you up.

Are white people putting guns to the heads of black men and forcing them to join gangs, rob stores and deal drugs? No? Then leave us out of it.

Barack Obama referred to a Constitution "stained by this nation's original sin of slavery." How short is the list of nations that never had slavery? Could we just once stop to celebrate the fact that what makes us unique as a nation in terms of slavery is not that we had it, but that America was one of the first nations on earth to outlaw the practice? A lot of white guys died to bring that about. No credit?

The resentment, defeatism and hate that too many black parents and leaders teach their children is so deep that Obama’s preacher, Rev. Wright actually said that Obama is “not a rich man.” He says this why? Is it his knee-jerk evaluation of all black people? Is it the internalized self-evaluation of all black people?

Obama is a United States Senator who lives in a mansion. He is a graduate of Harvard Law. Ditto Mrs. Obama, who lately was earning over $300,000 a year. He has two best-selling books. Chicago Magazine reports that Obama made $737,690 last year (add that to his wife’s income.) That is way more than Democrats are talking about when they scream for more taxes on “the rich.” The Obama’s are the very picture of wealth, power and privilege in America. Did they earn it? Yes they did. Good for them.

I had hope - there it is - that while I could not agree with Obama's socialist policies, he would at least move race relations ahead. Now I know he will not.

I don't think there are simple answers to why blacks still struggle, but Wright's it's-whitey's-fault approach is as simple as they come, and most certainly part of the problem. It's well-known now that you can't solve a problem until you admit it exists. When the rest of America heard what was being preached at Obama's church, they -- to put it mildly -- saw a problem.

How often does it happen that a black person who has done well enough to be interviewed about success gives all the credit to the person who raised him or her? Almost every time. What do they mention particularly? That their parent(s) or grandparent(s) emphasized that life isn’t fair and that they were expected to achieve anyway. Condoleezza Rice says of her parents, "they refused to allow the limits and injustices of their time to limit our horizons." Why isn’t this catching on?

You want to know why white kids succeed? Their parents tell them to. Their parents expect them to. If the school doesn’t provide a book they send their child to the library. You should try the library, it’s free. While the children are doing their lessons the adults could wander over to the self-help section and read “The Seven Habits of Highly Successful People” or something like it. There are plenty of choices. (But not “The Secret,” that’s another get-something-for-nothing book.)

You could point out that while I am busy absolving myself of the problems in the black community I am not doing anything to help. Perhaps that is true, but I didn’t help the Asian children either. How are they doing?

Share:
Vote on It:
Average Vote:
 
About The Author



Jerry Agar is one of the newest stars in talk radio. After many years as a disc jockey and music radio morning show host he turned to talk radio at WPTF in Raleigh, North Carolina.

 
TOWNHALL DAILY: Be the first to read Jerry Agar's column. Sign up today and receive Townhall.com daily lineup delivered each morning to your inbox.

Try working
I too refuse to accept the failures of the black community as my fault.
I started washing dishes in a diner when I was 12 years old and haven't stopped working since. That's 45 years with very few vacations. It's been a hard life but I continued to work my way up. I'm still working.
So excuse me if I don't have a lot of sympathy for a group of people who refuse to help themselves, continue to play the victims, expect restitution and continue to take advantage of all the programs their minority status offers to these special citizens with my tax dollars.
I've given enough.

Amen!
Good job, Mr. Agar, and great comment lula may! Expectations mean everything! I taught in a school that served students with behavioral/emotional issues. We are mainly a white community, but I did have the privilege of teaching a few black students over the years.

A student who always brings a smile to my face was a student who often accused teachers of racism. The first time he levelled that accusation at me, I let him know that I was not a racist, and I never expected that charge from him again. I told him that if he wanted me to get off of is back, he was going to have to work hard and achieve in my class.

He did get with the program--probably more to get me off of his back at first, but later because he got satisfaction out of doing well. He ended up going back to his regular school and will graduate this year with honors. All I did was expect him to succeed, and he did the rest. I think too often people make excuses, and that is a recipe for failure.

This is not part of the plan


To talk about in America.
That Mr Agar speaks to.

And as far as this part, it definitly has an effect on me.

quote:
In the Chicago Sun-Times columnist Mary Mitchell quotes a spokeswoman for Rev. Wright, Iva Carruthers, commenting on Obama’s speech. “The sad thing about this is, the people who really need to understand the message – white males – I don’t know if it will have any effect.”


It effects me in the same way the smell of a skunk effects me.

I am sick of the lies going on from people who have interest in finding a solution, but just use race for stirring up problems and playing blame games.

Like Iva Carruthers, a bigot.
I really do not care what Iva Carruthers, Obama or his racist preacher thinks about me, I owe them nothing.
Scottish/Cherokee Native American.

MLK,
though lauded, is not really believed by most of the black community. When whites try to keep things really equal, and focus on "the content of one's character," we are reminded about the past. At what point will the past not be thrown in our faces? Must there be absolute parity of numbers in all jobs? If so, Wyoming will have to recruit a lot of blacks to raise their numbers. It's all foolish. I will be friendly, and if I can be friends with someone, good. Otherwise, all the best to you and work hard.

Whew!
Racism is alive and well.

It is coming directly from some of the so called black religious leaders.

Wright is bad enough. Now we have the not so reverend James David Manning.

I just finished watching the H & C interview with this disgusting human being.

My jaw is still dropped to my waist.

He was so revolting that Hannity was defending Obama.

bigotry
My ancestry was very familiar with bigotry. In fact, until 1976(yes, 1976) there was an extermination order, Missouri executive order 44, on the heads of all those who believe like me. My fourth great grandparents were driven from their homes with threats of death, and some of my ancestors were murdered.
Yet, I say, God bless America, land that I love.

And Amen!
We need a growing symphony of articles like Mr. Agar's. The more we can hammer his message home, the better. In the past we eliminated institutional racism in this country by demonizing it, making it morally reprehensible.

Let's do the same with the harmful, hateful nonsense that the race industry and the likes of Rev. Wright are spewing. Sure, they are free to make money doing it, but the more straight-thinking, straight-talking people have the courage to speak out, to ridicule it and make it morally reprehensible, the better.

We have been quiet too long. If Obama tells us we need to open up a dialogue, let's bring it on.

To hillplus
Wouldn't it be interesting to see what would happen if those mired in racial hopelessness followed the example of your persecuted people. Not Obama's big government "solutions," but getting all the education you can; marrying prior to child-bearing; an extraordinary emphasis on strong, committed families with loving fathers at the head; stay-at-home, educated moms; 0 use of alcohol, tobacco and drugs; respect for the law; helping the poor throughout the world, actual obedience to God and a undying appreciation for country.

Oh, that Obama, Wright and other lib hangwringers would follow Sharpton to Utah and institute in their fetid communities what the Mormons have. New Orleans would look a lot more like Salt Lake City.

a view from the other side of the street
Amazing piece. No institutionalized racism. All white kids succeed. All blacks complain. It's really black and white, isn't it? Your conservative minister condemns the left and Jews and Muslims and anyone who doesn't share his world view as heathens and damns them to hell and that's inoffensive. Rev Wright damns the institution of the American government whose foreign (& domestic) policy over the last 50 years is damnable and should be called out and he's vilified and his parishioners are to be held accountable? Tell me, is he wrong?

other side of the street part II
Did the US not reap much of what it has sown? CIA meddling in foreign governments and elections. Cheerleading, hell, outright orchestrating the coup d'etat of Mossadegh in Iran in '53;installing the Shah and literally paving the way for the Islamofascists of the 79 revolution and beyond? No innocent people deserve the fate that befell those on 9/11 but angry, pissed off, vengeful people act with hate and vengeance. What were you expecting? Stir up the hornet’s nest, expect to get stung. Our government did these things and we are our government. Most of us have no sense of history and no recollection of the many mis-steps the US has made in foreign policy. Others see these things, perhaps with a jaundiced eye but they see it nonetheless..I'm not arguing that the US government never acts wisely or is never beneficent but I'm sure as hell not naive enough to think that we're beyond reproach and that our past good deeds absolve us of our wrongs.

Street III
Whether you like it or not, Reverend Wright is an American and can and should express his opinions. It is your prerogative to disagree with his opinions and criticize him for using his position to espouse them. Oh, by the way - I don't believe in a literal translation of the bible, which I'm thinking might be one of your favorites but there's a nugget in there that you might take to heart in this situation. As you observe, some blacks are still rather angry (there we go again) that they were rounded up and shipped half way around the world and set down in bondage and had their familial bonds extirpated, while they were whipped, beaten, castrated, raped and lynched, And when they weren’t being whipped, beaten, raped and lynched the job of slavery didn't pay very well either. Yeah, I know - they need to get over the past 'cuz the present's a paradise compared to that, huh

Street IV
But back to the little nugget from your favorite black book..I believe there is a parable where a disciple has wronged his brother and this disciple asks Jesus how he should atone for his sins against his brother and Jesus tells him that he needs to apologize 70 times 7 to begin the atonement. By my count, we probably have a ways to go to reach that number. I know, I'm an apologist and a liberal and in your eyes a loser. My forebears fought in that war to emancipate the enslaved so I guess I'm free and clear, too, like you. None of the subsequent 143 years since Appomatox were besmirched by racism or mistreatment or broken promises or Jim Crow or Plessy v Ferguson. We're all good - civil rights act of 1964 and 1968 cleared the slate, right? And liberals don't live in the real world?? Enjoy your life in your gated community and stock up for Armageddon while the rest of us roll up our sleeves and get the work done.

To x-man
Thanks for the history lesson, but how judgmental and self-righteous are you? And are you saying that it is the black community that needs to forgive 70x7? I think that's what you meant since Christ said it's the offended party that's required to forgive over and over.

If you actually believe the Bible, then you know that if the black community could forgive, it would go a long way to bringing them the healing peace they say the want.

As for rolling up your sleeves and getting to work, just what do you propose that hasn't been tried? If you have some good ideas that would actually work, we who live in our gate-guarded communities will join you in a heart-beat.

You didn't like my idea of teaching inner-city folk to start living like Mormons?

Not feeling guilty!
I have an announcement to make;

I have NEVER owned a slave!

My mother and father NEVER owned a slave.

My maternal and paternal grand parents NEVER owned a slave.

I have never advocated slavery either.

In fact I’ve donated money to Christian organizations that buy the freedom of slaves in Africa today.

Slavery as an institution ended 92 years before I was born.

Slavery as an institution ended 42 years before the oldest living African American was born.

In short, I refuse to be made to feel guilty for something I’ve never participated in, nor has anyone alive today been a victim of.

It is time to GET OVER IT!

jd

X-man
I read the first couple lines of part 1 and the last line of part 3. Just what is the work you intend to get done. I truly am curious, because it is the future that is important to me now.

jd
... and in fact, nobody in my ancestry, back the five generations I know about, ever owned a slave. Not only that, two of my great-great grandfathers died in the war to free the slaves. Am I owed reparations?

Fair Play
X-man

What you say about racial suffering in America is true, but only half.

Are you equally prepared to ask for forgiveness of the victims of out-of-control violence coming from black communities, like Oakland and New Orleans, ruled by their own leaders?

How much suffering by people who did you no harm will assuage your angry, hate-filled heart? People who survived concentration camps elsewhere only to be murdered by black youths on a drug-crazed rampage, fuelled by racial hate from preachers like Rev. Wright; women pulled into cars to be raped, tortured and killed because of the color of their skin; the white and Asian elderly, trapped in their previously friendly communities which changed when blacks started moving in, who are now beaten and robbed on their way to the store by jeering black youths; the badly injured man calling 911 for help, which never comes because the black person taking the call guesses the man needing help is white... How much revenge on innocent people do you need?

Have you considered going after the Africans whose ancestors sold your ancestors?

Good luck on your work creating new victims.


Blame Whitey
I am well past the point of taking the blame for something I had nothing to do with. I never owned a slave, I never refused a non white person anything. I do find it funny that most of the blacks that feel this way are the ones who live in the inner city. who believed in the Democrats and sold themselves back into slavery for a hunk of government cheese and a check once a month. In every survey taken inner city felt this way, while suburban middle class blacks who didn't buy into the welfare system, went to school, got a job, worked hard find this type of speech to be repulsive. These same people are viewed as "sell outs" and "uncle toms" by the blacks in the inner cities. their sell outs for wanting more than a welfare check. Their "Uncle Tom's" for getting a job and working with "Whitey" to better their lives. They claim whites are racist, I say it is they who are the racist, only they hate everyone who has bettered themselves and have worked twards making a future for themselves

X-Man
Will you sit beside the Obamas at the Trinity Church of Christ tis Sunday? Or, will you be at home watching Wright's videos?

I feel sorry for you and the people who think like you.

To X-Man:
Where would you be today if your ancestors hadn't been brought over as slaves?

X-Man
Are you one of the Generation Whiners wearing your Malcolm X teeshirt and sighing secretly that you missed all the good stuff your grandparents reminisce about?

Are you currently wearing more bling and electronics than Malcolm X ever saw or imagined in his life, paid for by other people, and do your shoes cost more individually than the food budget of the average poor family?

Do you consider the word *affordable* to mean *free*?

As someone who has been baby-sitting since the age of 12 and responsible for her own expenses since age 16, who was the first in my family on either side to graduate from university, and as one who has done more charitable work in six months than you will likely do til th day you die, I spit upon your attempts to label me *privileged* and insinuate that if only you had been born with my skin and I with yours, I would be a worthless Mamas Boy and you would be CEO of Microsoft.

You are whining because you were born 40 years too late to get in on the fun. Pity you.

Amazingly,
as I worked this morning in Bagram, I didn't spend one second dwelling on the priviledged position my white skin has brought me in life.


To X-man
There has been racism and bigotry since the Civil War, and even since the Civil Rights Movement's success.

Pretending that little benefit has accrued to the shift from enforced, institutionalized racism to furtive, punishable racism, however, is demonstrably false. Furthermore, I will ask this: which is greater, the incarceration rate of black people under the old institutionalized system of racism, or under the current system? Why was crime much less prevalent among black males *then*, when people had every right to resent public policy? Why was crime much less prevalent *then*, when black people had many fewer economic and social opportunities (and many fewer examples of black success)?

You can rant all you desire, but the fact is that vast improvement in the nation's approach to race has NOT resulted in vast improvement in the economic and social conditions of many black people.

On the other hand, among many black people it *has*. A former brigade commander of mine, Maurice Buchanan, provided an example in my own experience. An outstanding man who never blamed others for failing to do for him what he KNEW he could -- and did -- do for himself.

"As you observe, some blacks are still rather angry that they were rounded up and shipped half way around the world and set down in bondage and had their familial bonds extirpated... Yeah, I know - they need to get over the past 'cuz the present's a paradise compared to that, huh"

No, I'd say 'Show me one black person on whom this crime was perpetrated'. If no black people alive today were treated this way I'd say 'Get over the past'.
I'd also note that the only people extirpating black familial bonds today are black folks. The same with whites, I might add.

Jerry
I miss you on WPTF, but I hear you are in Chicago, now. I'll be living there soon! Great column.


I know the answers
To Agar's questions.

And the rest of you too.


Here is where the lesson begins Mr. Agar, your question:



You want to know why white kids succeed? Their parents tell them to. Their parents expect them to. If the school doesn’t provide a book they send their child to the library. You should try the library, it’s free. While the children are doing their lessons the adults could wander over to the self-help section and read “The Seven Habits of Highly Successful People” or something like it. There are plenty of choices. (But not “The Secret,” that’s another get-something-for-nothing book.)



A question for you, Mr. Agar.

Where do you think your parents got these skills and values, and how did they know the importance of transferring them to you?


Answer:
From their parents.(your grandparents)

Following Mr. Agar?


Now, where did your grandparents learn this invalueable transferance of knowledge and ethics?


Answer:

That's right! Great-grandparents.

Do you see the chain Mr. Agar?

Good.

My great-grandfather was a slave.

and our chains have "evil gifts".

Class has begun Jerry Agar.





I know the answers
To Agar's questions.

And the rest of you too.


Here is where the lesson begins Mr. Agar, your question:



You want to know why white kids succeed? Their parents tell them to. Their parents expect them to. If the school doesn’t provide a book they send their child to the library. You should try the library, it’s free. While the children are doing their lessons the adults could wander over to the self-help section and read “The Seven Habits of Highly Successful People” or something like it. There are plenty of choices. (But not “The Secret,” that’s another get-something-for-nothing book.)



A question for you, Mr. Agar.

Where do you think your parents got these skills and values, and how did they know the importance of transferring them to you?


Answer:
From their parents.(your grandparents)

Following Mr. Agar?


Now, where did your grandparents learn this invalueable transferance of knowledge and ethics?


Answer:

That's right! Great-grandparents.

Do you see the chain Mr. Agar?

Good.

My great-grandfather was a slave.

and our chains have "evil gifts".

Class has begun Jerry Agar.

x-man....
You despise the Word of God and adulturate it for your own gain. You learn Scripture from some a-hole wannabe Farakhan. Have NO idea what the actual words say or mean because you are too lazy to read the Bible from the end of your own finger. You worship man and mammon, not the Lord God. Crawl back into that slime-hole you come from and peddle your bogus scripture to the ignorant, dumb masses you call your "peeps" because your stinky crap doesn't float in this bowl.

Here is what scripture says.

Matthew 18:21-22 in the new King James version of the Bible reads: Then Peter came to Him and said, "Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? Up to seven times?" Jesus said to him, "I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven."

This says NOTHING about the offender, it says everything about you and your made-up greivances. You are a deceiving liar.

Your boys Farakhan, Wright, Sharpton and the rest of the divisive race-hustlers you worship days are OVER. The silent majority - aka sleeping giant - is awake now. Be afraid...

A question
For my white students.

Anyone of you may answer(you too Jerry, I know you reading your own blog).

This is just to get your mental juices flowing.


If watching models and movie stars, can make white teenage girls starve themselves to death with anorexia, what is the effect of Generations of being protrayed as "Amos n Andy, Pimps and Hoes, and gangsters", on black teenagers?

A question
For my white students.

Anyone of you may answer(you too Jerry, I know you reading your own blog).

This is just to get your mental juices flowing.


If watching models and movie stars, can make white teenage girls starve themselves to death with anorexia, what is the effect of Generations of being protrayed as "Amos n Andy, Pimps and Hoes, and gangsters", on black teenagers?

A question
For my white students.

Anyone of you may answer(you too Jerry, I know you reading your own blog).

This is just to get your mental juices flowing.


If watching models and movie stars, can make white teenage girls starve themselves to death with anorexia, what is the effect of Generations of being protrayed as "Amos n Andy, Pimps and Hoes, and gangsters", on black teenagers?

heavydoug
I answered that lie the last time you asked it, seems like you are incapable of learning. Is that the problem with the black community not capable of learning?

Do you really want to tell us that your parents didn't teach you right from wrong, or that getting an education was important, or that stealing, and killing would get you incarcerated because they were too stupid to realize this simply because their great-grandparents were slaves?

slavery 150 yrs ago?
how about white on white slavery only 60 yrs ago...yeah, my parents til the war broke out and they were freed.

how about no social services for those white eastern europeans when they got here? racism???

I think I have it all figured out now...and I can't wait for Clinton/Obama to get into Office and open up more doors for minorities so they can take my job....and then I will go on welfare and let them pay for my support.

A question
Heavydoug:

You write: If watching models and movie stars, can make white teenage girls starve themselves to death with anorexia, what is the effect of Generations of being protrayed as "Amos n Andy, Pimps and Hoes, and gangsters", on black teenagers?

Amos n Andy have been off the air for 50 years. Pimps and Ho's are glorified by YOUR rap "culture." Violence is glorified by YOUR culture. Vulgarity in language and behaviour is glorified by YOUR culture. Those are the lessons being taught YOUR children by YOUR role models.

Don't blame "whitey" for that.

Bootstraps
That was the message my father taught us. That and choices. We could sit and whine or we could pull ourselves up by our bootstraps. The choice was ours. We grew up poor. If Daddy didn't hunt, we didn't have meat. I started working at age 11, and haven't looked back since. I'm the first in my family to graduate from college. I married a college graduate. We started out poor and have worked our way up to a comfortable living. I taught in mainly black school. I was accused of being a racist almost daily. I tried hard, but the conversations weren't how to get a job, which is what I taught, but how easy it was to sell drugs, how lucrative it was, the girls were already planning on having kids out og wedlock and collecting welfare. I felt like I was beating my head against the wall.

WHITE COMMUNITY
PLEASE, I WANT SOMEONE FROM THE BLACK COMMUNITY TO ASK REV. WRIGHT WHY HIS CHURCH PLEDGES THEIR ALLIGENCE TO AFRICA? DID THIS COUNTRY SELL THEIR OWN HUMAN BEINGS AS AN EXPORTED COMMODITY- LIKE WE EXPORT WHEAT OR RICE? WHY DON'T THEY ASK AFRICA FOR REPARATIONS? EVERYONE PAID A PRICE TO FORM AMERICA- SOME OF MY RELATIVES WERE SCALPED? SOME OF THEIR RELATIVES WERE SLAVES, BEATEN, RAPED ETC...SOME OF MY RELATIVES WERE WOMEN- THEY HAD NO RIGHTS--WERE BEAT AND WHIPPED BY THEIR SPOUSES, INCEST WAS RAPID AND SO ON AND SO ON:::GET THE POINT!! THE BLACK COMMUNITY SHOULD BE THANKFUL THEIR RELATIVES PAID THE HEAVY PRICE--JUST LIKE MINE DID--OR ELSE THEY WOULD BE SPENDING A PRETTY PRICE TO GET SMUGGLED INTO THIS SUCH OPPRESSIVE COUNTRY- THAT REV. WRIGHT PREACHES ABOUT!! PATTY

Great article Jerry
I gave it a 5. Now I'm going to listen to you on radio which I do every day. Keep up the good work.

Goldilocks
You did not answer this question.


You have no knowledge or respect of whose shoulders you stand on.

You think you would be half the person your are without investments you were Lucky enough to recieve.

Your arrogance and lack of understanding about family, the way humans operate as social beings, and history borders on appalling.

Goldilocks
You did not answer this question.


You have no knowledge or respect of whose shoulders you stand on.

You think you would be half the person your are without investments you were Lucky enough to recieve.

Your arrogance and lack of understanding about family, the way humans operate as social beings, and history borders on appalling.



(posting on this site is too difficult)

I have an article on my blog
that seconds the motion made here. Drop by and read 'I Plead Not Guilty' when you get a second.

http://heartlandpatriot.blogtownhall.com/default.aspx

heavydoug
goldilocks answered the question in spades...

But you are too stupid and/or too delusional to understand.

For this, I DO in-part blame your parents and absolve you of accountability and responsibility.

I also blame in-part Barack, Wright, Jesse, Al, Malcolm, Farakhan and the rest of the slave-owners telling you and your parents who you are and what to believe.

The rest of the blame lies at the feet of your true masters - the democrat party and their group identity politics. You truly are an oppressed, ignorant people...I guess I can say...typical?

Bengal
70% of rap music is consumed by white teens.

That crap would have been gone long ago if not for that market.

Newflash:

We didn't have the idea or resources to manufacture and distribute crack either.

And whole lot of other things too.


The attitudes on you people is Amazing.

Say What ?
heavydoug,
Are you telling us your parent, grandparents and yourself are too stupid to break the cycle. That none of you have the sense to tell your children to study and stay out of trouble ?

Pharoah
You do not know how to answer a question either.

Try this:


The effect of generations of negative depictions and role model on black tenagers has been______________ .


(you are supposed to fill in the black space)

Yes, I did.
I answered it two days ago when you posted the identical question. Many others answered it also. It was not what you wanted to hear.

You know nothing about me, you don't know if I had parents who knew that books, and education were good things and encoraged me accordingly. You are making assumptions.

You say white people have parents or relatives who know how to raise children properly because they were not slaves. You say that because you have ancestors who were slaves they were unable to pass down common sense to their children.
I don't really see how being a slave deprives someone of common sense.

If you blame slavery for the pathologies of black culture there is no need to blame yourself.
Since slavery is a fact, then, by your reasoning, blacks, as a whole, will never be able to achieve anything. Since they can't be blamed they should be given a free pass to do anything they d@mn well please. Is that it?

heavy....
Put this in your whitey-manufactured and freely distributed crack pipe and smoke it:

• Blacks are seven times more likely than people of other races to commit murder, and eight times more likely to commit robbery.

• When blacks commit crimes of violence, they are nearly three times more likely than non-blacks to use a gun, and more than twice as likely to use a knife.

• Of the nearly 770,000 violent interracial crimes committed every year involving blacks and whites, blacks commit 85 percent and whites commit 15 percent.

• Blacks commit more violent crime against whites than against blacks. Forty-five percent of their victims are white, 43 percent are black, and 10 percent are Hispanic. When whites commit violent crime, only three percent of their victims are black.

• Blacks are an estimated 39 times more likely to commit a violent crime against a white than vice versa, and 136 times more likely to commit robbery.

• Blacks are 2.25 times more likely to commit officially-designated hate crimes against whites than vice versa

heavy - here is your blank.....
The effect of generations of negative depictions and role model on black tenagers has been SELF INFLICTED.

responsiblity
heavy doug writes: "You have no knowledge or respect of whose shoulders you stand on.

You think you would be half the person your are without investments you were Lucky enough to recieve.

Your arrogance and lack of understanding about family, the way humans operate as social beings, and history borders on appalling."


The Bible these racists claim to believe in states it clearly: YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR AND WILL ANSWER FOR YOURSELF. To wit:

"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad." II Cor 5:10.

The fact that their ancestors were never taught is IRRELAVENT and UNTRUE: "For the grace of God that bringeth salavation hath appeared to all men,TEACHING US that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world..." Titus 2:11,12.

Its all so simple, but "God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise..." I Cor 1:27.

Its all in the Book. We can be foolish or we can be wise.

I Peter 4:11

Redneck Culture Is The Problem
Blacks committ seven times the number of violent crimes than whites, as a percentage of their population.

50% of blacks drop out of HS in the hood.

7 of 10 black children have no father in the home guaranteeing poverty and a host of other pathologies.

Let a policeman shoot one of these violent felons and blacks riot on the side of the felon. Then they demand safe streets!!!???

So lets give these violent, redneck, dummies jobs as rocket scientists. Equal outcomes Wright?!

Yet the Democrats still promote the lies that its racism that is holding these people back. Its their white liberal enablers who are the hatful racists.

However, 9 of 10 blacks would rather believe these fictions rather than actually improve their lot in life. I guess that is being too white.

HeavyDoug
The effect of generations of negative depictions and role model on black tenagers has been:

1. ...a stunning inability on their part to distinguish reality from fantasy.

2. ...to provide a convenient excuse for their poor performance and dysfunctional behavior.

3. ...a pavlovian dependence on outside validation as a measure of their self-worth.



Look in the mirror
Well what about the meth infested, std ridden, white teenagers that are shooting people in the high schools?

I know what my peoples problems are, you should worry about your own.

If you didn't have anything to do with the problem, shut up.

Who are to come off as an expert of what other peoples problems are? Please.

There is enough white people on welfare for you to worry about.


heavydoug
Your litany of injustice is irrelevant to the column, which is a Report from the White Community. To stay on topic, you agree that whites do concur with Agar, or that they do not. It is pointless to talk about whether it is justified to think the way they do. Many posters have posted reasons you are not justified to believe as you do. Have any of them changed your mind? Why do you expect criticism of motives to change any one else's mind. The real result of your posts is to affirm in the minds of many people that it is hopeless to try to help blacks, because they refuse to help themselves. There is always enough blame to go around. Never enough responsibility.

Heavy - any response?
Heavy - there are five-and-one-half as many whites as blacks in this country.

Didn't you just tell me that 70% of rap sales are to whitey? If this is true and your theory about image and influence has any intellectual honesty, then you would have to agree that crime and general stupidity stats like those above and these here would explode heavily in whiteys column...

*** Blacks not only commit violent crimes at far higher rates than non-blacks, but their crimes are more violent than those of whites. Blacks are three times as likely as non-blacks to commit assault with guns, and twice as likely as non-blacks to commit assault with knives.

Blacks not only commit violent crimes at far higher rates than whites, but blacks commit white collar offenses -- fraud, bribery, racketeering and embezzlement, respectively -- at two to five times the white rate.

The single greatest indicator of an areas crime rate is not poverty or education, but race and ethnicity. Even when one accounts for income, the black crime rate is much higher than the white rate.

Facts are stubborn things, Heavy. Drop the hate and think for yourself.

Perfectly said, Agar!
Great column of - gasp!! - truth and reality!
If Obama wants to cash in on slavery and oppression then he must tell the whole story: free Blacks owned slaves. Africans owned other African slaves. Name the people: they sold their own into slavery.
Slavery is the guilt of ALL people.
Blacks are not innocent of that immoral tragedy.
Slavery was/is everywhere - white people didn't invent it.
What little institutional racism there is - and not just against Blacks - exists in airless pockets where public scrutiny has not yet found it. When it's found, it's crushed as it should be.
I’m sick of listening to Mr. Hopeless Oblama deride this great nation, urge victim hood, stoke racism, and denigrate America.
This is the nation of can, but only if you do. Hope isn't Obama and his socialist, self-centered, self-serving agenda.
Until Americans refuse to accept a divided status - refuse to be helpless victims - disavow epithets of demarcated exclusivity - disband "Black," "African American," the "typical white people,” "Gay," "I am MORE than" American - can we succeed.
No hope is found in disunity - sowing conflict and misplaced sentimental helplessness. That is the politics of despair - of fear - of greater than, superior to, not Hope - not equality and inalienable rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
The Democratic candidates' eternal gloom and doom class warfare, black/white hatred - identity politics - should be rejected because those ideas are anti-freedom, anti-personal responsibility, anti-community, anti-hope.
Making decisions, acting on them, taking responsibility for those actions, giving/helping others is the way to success for everyone.
Obama and Clinton: STOP encouraging people to roll over and play dead.

Heavydoug
"The attitudes on you people is Amazing."

To quote Archie Bunker--what do you mean "you people?" YOU PEOPLE are "you people."

Your great, great granddaddy might have been literally on the plantation, but you apparently still have that "plantation" mentality.

In the generations immediately following the War of Northern Aggression, the lot of former slaves improved considerably, often in spite of Jim Crow laws.

Since Brown v. Board of Education, the 1964 and 1968 Civil Rights acts, and JFK's Executive Order 10925 (issued in 1961) the lot of many black people has worsened considerably.

In short, the black community--or at least the perpetually disaffected segment of it--has over the last 54 years been given all the tools it needs to succeed. The fact that so many refuse to use these tools is their own fault.

It is quite revealing to read Elijah Muhammad's "What the Muslim Want," which is reprinted in nearly every issue of "The Final Call," and can be found online at http://muhammadstemplesite.com/id53.html.

If you take this as the mission statement of NOI and apparently people like Heavydoug, blacks will not be satisfied until the USA bestows upon them enough land to establish their own independent country, and sufficient cash to support that country for 20 to 25 years.

Not only is this absolutely unlikely to occur, I consider it evidence that the black people who are always dissatisfied have not shaken off the "slave" attitude.

But oddly enough, the black politicians and "reverends" who promote this dissatisfaction all seem to be living very comfortably.

Put two and two together, Doug. Assuming you stayed in school long enough to learn to add.

White Burden Whining
Is what I heard in Agar's column.

And I don't hate anyone.(my brother in law comes close however)

I just think it's stupid, counterproductive, and some sort superiority kick you guys are on.

Talk about denying facts.

The sheer irony, that rap music is supported by whites totally escapes you.

The effect of pop culture on ALL young people. Completely lost on those who want to feel racially and morally superior.

Sorry to bust your bubble. Almost everything about us good and bad is in our history.

Our alpha males have been systematically lynched, jailed, denied countless oppurtunities.

And we still are producing the high quality American.

You guys are smoking the good stuff.

heavy doug, maybe you missed this
heavy doug writes: "You have no knowledge or respect of whose shoulders you stand on.

You think you would be half the person your are without investments you were Lucky enough to recieve.

Your arrogance and lack of understanding about family, the way humans operate as social beings, and history borders on appalling."


The Bible these racists claim to believe in states it clearly: YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR AND WILL ANSWER FOR YOURSELF. To wit:

"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad." II Cor 5:10.

The fact that their ancestors were never taught is IRRELAVENT and UNTRUE: "For the grace of God that bringeth salavation hath appeared to all men,TEACHING US that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world..." Titus 2:11,12.

Its all so simple, but "God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise..." I Cor 1:27.

Its all in the Book. We can be foolish or we can be wise.

I Peter 4:11

Gotta Luv Heavy Doug
My great-great-grandfather was a serf (really nothing but a slave) in England. Guess I have no future but to be a crack sellin, many women lovin, race hatin, creature. Wow who knew you can't get anywhere in this country if your grandpappy was not born to nobility?

Someone must have forgot to tell Condi Rice and Booker T Washington. Didn't I just read a quote from Booker T about him actually being glad he was born a slave and that it made his rise in life all the sweeter.

lets talk truth

yes there is a need for the african american community to build better family and community but racism is a reason for some of the problems.

here is what bill cosby says about that on meet the press


Let’s deal first with what people call the systemic—the, the racism that exists in this country, which is absolutely for real. But people just say it. They say, “Well, there’s systemic and institutional racism.” “What do you mean by that?” Well, what I mean is that the power structure can stop a person from getting a better education. It can stop them from living in better conditions. It can stop improvements from being made. For instance, if you have a slum landlord, if you’re lower, lower economic, to get that fixed, to bring the law in on this person, it, it just doesn’t happen. If police decide to ride in and arrest, if laws are made to go against you, I mean, this kind of thing is very, very hurtful. And then we move into areas of health, health care, where racism can stop a person from getting immediate attention...



Doug - a test question for you...
Please read the following and fill in the blank in regards to reality.

****************

According to federal crime figures, homicide is the leading cause of death among African-American males aged 15 to 34. They also indicate that between 1976 and 2004, 94 percent of black murder victims were killed by black offenders.

****************

The effect of generations of negative depictions and role model on black tenagers has been __________.

The effect of a generation of degrading, gutter/ghetto/pimpn/prostitute/thug/crime and murder promoting rap music BLACK teenagers listen to has been: _________________

The effect of a generation of degrading, gutter/ghetto/pimpn/prostitute/thug/crime and murder promoting rap music white teenagers ironically listen to has been: _________________


religiouslib
As a whitey who has been finanically succesful and within a few years down to $4 and change in my pocket I can attest that what you adn Cosby refer to as a problem with skin color actually has more to do with economic stability adn education.

I never knew just how bad the poor had it until I was poor. There are a lot of predators out there sucking whatever they can from the poor by taking advantage of their ignorance and/or desperation. Thank God I had some financial literacy and education that allowed me to see these through these parasites.

Only difference I see from a political perspective is that poor whitey is not equally represented as poor blackey by race-pimps and opportunists in the media.

Compassionate Conservatism?
Break this down.

Who would you be if your mother was a alcoholic?

If your father was a pedaphile?

If he was the grand wizard of the KKK?

You might make it through to adulthood. But you would have to be smart, strong, and extremely lucky.

Who would you be if you Dad was a dependable provider and your mother a patient and loving teacher? (I'd put my money on this version of yourself)






Our communities are short on supportive family units. That is no secret.

But it is not magic how it came to be that way either.

Time heals all wounds, but the bigger the wound the more time it takes to heal.

heavy - I get it now
I see what you are saying and I must admit I agree...! What you are describing and referring to is a HUMAN condition.

Problem I have had with your posts is that you've been so immersed in group identiy and the color of your skin that everything you present is race-related.

Reminds me of a fallen hero of mine - Andrew Sullivan. He became so blinded by his homosexuality that everything he started writing was first filtered through his homosexual identity.

pharoah
actually here is a study that disproves your argument

economic
aid.
America’s historical approach toward public
assistance has been based on the deservingness
of the poor rather than a general commitment
to “assisting the economically disadvantaged”
(Rosenheck, Bassuk & Solomon, 2001, p. 20).
According to the Chicago Coalition of Homelessness
(2001), African American single men make up the
highest percentage of the homeless population in
Chicago. The high percentage of African American
males is consistent with the trend toward targeted
funding to specific groups of homeless who are considered
the “deserving” poor, for example, children,
women, and families (Rosenheck, Bassuk, &
Solomon, 2001). The risk and disadvantage to identifying
specific subgroups is that programs intended
for a special population may “blur awareness of the
structural causes of homelessness and may lead policymakers
to erroneously explain homelessness as a
result of personal or subgroup failings” (Rosenheck
et al., 2001, p. 1). The disproportionate number of
homeless African American males in Chicago
reflects policy efforts made toward specific populations
that may have an effect on the public’s perception
of homelessness in two ways. First, if the
tendency towards racial bias in homelessness is accurate,
then mainstreamed whites (with no familial history
of poverty or discrimination) may be more like-
Fall 2004 • Volume 4 41 PRAXIS
Racial Perceptions of Homelessness: A Chicago-based Study Investigating Racial Bias
ly to disregard homeless African Americans as having
been the cause of their predicament. Second, as
referred to earlier, African Americans with a cultural
history of social unrest may be more likely to identify
with and empathize with the oppressed.



here is the entire study

http://www.luc.edu/socialwork/praxis/pdfs/vol4_chapter5.pdf

Something Relevant
Dear Heavy Dog,

May I ask a quetion.

You say your Great Grandfather was a slave.

I'll not dispute that, however,

Was your grandfather a slave?
Was your father a slave?
Were you ever a slave?

My off the cuff guess is the answer to all three questions is, no!

So Riddle me this, WHAT CHAINS are you talking about?

Now let us do the math.

If your Great Grandfather was born in 1864, (that's one year before Slavery was ended) he would have been 80 years old in 1944.
If you were born in 1944 that would make you 64 years old today.

If your great grandfather was a teenager when freed, he would have been 90 + years old in 1944.

These numbers leave little time for bonding and passing on of the institutional memory of his chains.

I must say you strain credulity if you are younger than 64 years old today to say that your great grandfather's experiences in any way translates directly to your own situation.

just a little bit of observation.

jd

heavydoug
White, conservative, Christian pulpits are quite often afire with condemnations of our popular culture and what it is doing to young people regardless of color. We condemn the perversity of the things you wish to blame us for... I don't see those condemnations coming from Wright and his ilk.

Maybe he's called the rap culture out publicly and condemned them for the effect they're having on America's youth... but that wouldn't seem to be the norm for black preachers.


more reality
In the study "Are Emily and Brendan More Employable than Lakisha and Jamal?" Marianne Bertrand, an associate professor at the University of Chicago Graduate School of Business, and Sendhil Mullainathan of Massachusetts Institute of Technology use a field experiment to measure the extent of race-based job discrimination in the current labor market.

From July 2001 to May 2002, Bertrand and Mullainathan sent fictitious resumes in response to 1,300 help-wanted ads listed in the Boston Globe and the Chicago Tribune. They used the callback rate for interviews to measure the success of each resume. Approximately 5,000 resumes were sent for positions in sales, administrative support, clerical services, and customer service. Jobs ranged from a cashier at a store to the manager of sales at a large firm.

The catch was that the authors manipulated the perception of race via the name of each applicant, with comparable credentials for each racial group. Each resume was randomly assigned either a very white-sounding name (Emily Walsh, Brendan Baker) or a very African-American-sounding name (Lakisha Washington, Jamal Jones).

The authors find that applicants with white-sounding names are 50 percent more likely to get called for an initial interview than applicants with African-American-sounding names. Applicants with white names need to send about 10 resumes to get one callback, whereas applicants with African-American names need to send about 15 resumes to achieve the same result.


here is the link to the full study

http://www.chicagogsb.edu/capideas/spring03/racialbias.html

truth
Try it. Psalms 19:10

more racial bias
Black students in public schools across the country are far more likely than whites to be suspended or expelled, and far less likely to be in gifted or advanced placement classes, according to a study of 12 large public school districts released yesterday by the Applied Research Center, a left-leaning nonprofit public policy group in Oakland, Calif.

The study, which comes at a time of heightened attention to racial differences in education, found inequalities in the districts studied: Austin, Tex., Boston, Chicago, Denver, Durham, N.C., Los Angeles, Miami, Columbia, S.C., San Francisco, Missoula, Mont., and Providence, R.I.

here is the link

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9800E6DD1039 F932A35750C0A9669C8B63

heavydoug on family
"Who would you be if you Dad was a dependable provider and your mother a patient and loving teacher? (I'd put my money on this version of yourself)

Our communities are short on supportive family units. That is no secret.

But it is not magic how it came to be that way either.

Time heals all wounds, but the bigger the wound the more time it takes to heal."

No it isn't magic. They got that way one individual, personal, immoral decision at a time that belonged to no one but the person making it. Until you drop the ridiculous notion that bad decisions made and being made by black people were predestined by past oppression by whites... There will NEVER be healing no matter how much time passes.

The message you need to be repeating is "YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE"... not, you couldn't help it... the legacy of discrimination made you do it.

According to the Bible, God doesn't accept the kind of excuses you keep making... so I'm not inclined to either... from you, my kids, my white neighbors, or anyone else.

Pharoah
you are making my point.

A supportive family is key to young people being able to navigate through the negative crap out here today.

When white or (any ethinc group's)parents aren't involved in their kid's lives or don't have sufficient parenting skills the effects are just as damaging.

Columbine, drug abuse, promiscuity, etc,.

Our history gives us less family units. So of course statistics will reflect this.

Look for reasons.. rather than for someone to blame.

The problem with the study
religiouslib,

the only problem with such a study is the fact that the author can infect such a study.

Let us take a predominantly White name..
Say Elizabeth.

Are you saying that Elizabeth Maxwell will recieve the same treatment as,

Beth Maxwell,
or say
Liz Maxwell?

Hardly.

Names carry connotations beyond race.
And anyone making such a study can push such a study in a direction of their choosing by the names that they choose.

So your wonderful study is really simply another weighted attempt to prove what the studay was designed to prove.

another observation.

jd

RL
When a person of character is confronted with a higher standard, it cultivates excellence.

The problem then isn't the standard for behavior but the response to it.

If I were a black parent, nothing could make me happier than the notion that potential bad influences on my kids were being punished strictly...

In case you are wondering, yes. We have gone into the school, heard what the official policy was, and demanded that a teacher immediately inform us if our child didn't meet a more stringent standard.

x-man looking for problems
With everyone but himself, and where all his problems exist.
----

X-man writes: 1:17 AM
Street IV
But back to the little nugget from your favorite black book..I believe there is a parable where a disciple has wronged his brother and this disciple asks Jesus how he should atone for his sins against his brother and Jesus tells him that he needs to apologize 70 times 7 to begin the atonement.
---------
ts:
When I do something to need your forgiveness, let me know.
Until then why you whining over something that has not happened?
All you are saying with the way you are mis applying this scripture is God owes you an apology for being born.
I bet He is not going to give you the apology no more than I will.

See, that scripture only works for a one on one situation.
And you have just offended me with your false accusation that I ever done anything wrong to you.
I never met you, and glad I have not.

Your own evil eye is what is causing you to be offended, so obey this and pluck it out.

Mt 18:9 -
And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee:

To falsely accuse people is as wicked as it gets, and you really should repent of this evil you spread.

Matthew 18:15-20
15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone:

When you can place a finger on where I done you wrong, come to me, til then quit whining.


Quit spreading your hate filled gossip that I done you wrong too, hypocrite.

Read it again:
Matthew 18:
21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?

22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.

Until I sin against you, quit spreading your hate filled lies against me.









HUH?
"Our history gives us less family units. So of course statistics will reflect this."

In the early 60's Moynihan lamented that 30% of black children were born illegitimately. He said it was an epidemic that would destroy the black community. After more than 40 years of affirmative action, social programs, school spending, and pretty extraordinary measures to try to help the black community up... nearly 70% of black children are born out of wedlock, crime is up, comparative academic performance is down,...

So tell me, why weren't blacks of the 50's so negatively effected by things that are apparently crushing the black community today? It isn't because "white America" hasn't made a significant effort toward helping.

"Look for reasons.. rather than for someone to blame."

That is laughable. Anytime someone says something about black individuals taking personal responsibility for themselves, you decry blame placing... then turn around and blame whites for those same problems.

Personal responsibility, doug... PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. Keep saying it to yourself until it burn indeliably into your conscience... until that's the ONLY message, there will be no improvement.

Jaydee
In was using myself as an example. I was attempting to show the link black Americans have to slavery and how close it is in history.

I don't understand your math, but I know my family's story.

The point I was trying to make was this:

We are products of the ones before us. They can't teach us things or give us qualities they themselves do not posses.

Many of you think you follow the law and have have morals and work ethics that you were magically born with.

Not the case... who you are is a product of generations!

whether you knew them or not they've kept you out of jail, off drugs, your intelligence, speech patterns and more.

The Constitution literally impacts our lives daily(thankfully). That was only 230 years ago.

Give thanks for what you have, and stop bad-mouthing people who were given a much smaller stick to fight with.


Actually
talent scout;

the misapplication of the scripture x-man quotes in question ;

"..I believe there is a parable where a disciple has wronged his brother and this disciple asks Jesus how he should atone for his sins against his brother and Jesus tells him that he needs to apologize 70 times 7 to begin the atonement. By my count, we probably have a ways to go to reach that number."

is directional in nature.

It is incumbant upon him do do the forgiving.

In other words, those instructions are for him to GET OVER IT when it comes to slavery.

It is forgiving, not reparations mentioned.

just an observation

jd

Religiouslib
writes "Black students in public schools across the country are far more likely than whites..." blah, blah, blah, etcetera.

There is SO MUCH wrong with public education in the USA that I don't think it's fair, or even relevant, to single out racial disparities.

I suggest you read Vin Suprynowicz and John Taylor Gatto on this subject, to gain a notion of how destructive the public school system has become for every student it touches.


sjt18
personal responsiblity and expectations are great but only work if the playing field is level and it is not.


Heavydog...
My Mother has a scar on her right forearm.

It was put there by a running iron heated in a fire.

She waited in line while a family friend provided her family members in front of her with a similar scar.

Don't talk to me about the size of sticks.

religiouslib
Have you ever heard the phrase, "Acting White?"

religiouslib
Guess what, I probably would think twice and pause at a resume frmo a Lakisha or Jamal. Yes, my whitey-hater radar would go off which I think you could understand now that the underbelly of black-racism and afro-centric loyalty has been exposed. Based onmy experience and exposure in life I can pretty much assume Lakisha adn Jamal are black.

From there, I determine that more than likely their black father and (statistically speaking more than likely) black mother or grandma named their child Lakisha or Jamal in honor and respect to this afro-centric/hate whitey theology and pervasive attitude. I then can logically assume this bigotry, racism and bias didn't stop with the naming of the child and has been an overarching theme shaping the life, behavior and attitude of this jopb applicant.

From here, I can reasonably assume that Jamal or Lakisha will have a propensity to regard me based NOT on the content of my character but rather the color of my skin. I will then more than likely sub-conciously replay the hundreds of local tv news stories and articles I've read where a violent offender was named "Jamal" or the latest baby in the dumpster mother was named "Lakisha" and shudder.

THEN, I will look at their education, experience, length and depth of relevent employment and if it is a good match call them in for an interview....like successful whitey business owners do.

If the playing field is level
May I suggest that you read one of Kurt Vonnegut's earliest short stories, entitled "Harrison Bergeron."

It speaks volumes to the notion of artificially leveling the playing field.

As an example: Ben Carson is a talented surgeon who came from an impoverished background, got an education and realized his true genius. My (late) father came from an impoverished background, dropped out of school after the 8th grade, and spent most of his life driving a taxi. If the playing field were leveled, should that have meant my dad was equally qualified to do brain surgery as Dr. Carson?

heavydoug
Your arguments about lack of parental guidance don't hold water. The statistics of intact black families, percent of black illegitamacy and other measures of black family integrity were better in 1945 than today. The crash of the black family has not been a function of slavery 200 years ago, but the debilitating effects of short-sighted welfare that rewarded/excused sloth. And in whites as well as blacks. But the white community and culture has leaders that promote these values that you say need to be installed in black children. Where are these figures in the black community? As soon as a Thomas Sowell arises, or a Cosby advocates taking responsibility for success against barriers, they are immediately trashed. And what is your role? Are you working diligently to break this centuries old chain you perceive.? Are you explaining to your unenlightened brothers the facts of which they are ignorant? Are you a voice in the ignorance, a public voice in the square, blasting for all to hear the words that successful children R&Y, B&W have heard from their parents for millenia. Or are you merely a whining apologist?

sjt18
The fifties were a horrible time to be black.

Period.

Many ugly truths were hidden.

You sound foolish to anyone who knows anything.

If you didn't know there was a whole Civil rights movement because it was unbearable.

Thank you for teaching me about personal resposibily. I remember when I was five and my mother make me return some candy I'd stolen.

What a valuable lesson I'm grateful to my mother for teaching me responsibilty in that respect and many others.(and my grandmother for teaching her)

But instead of beating my chest and saying I'm better than someone who struggles with these things. I can say "if that person had my mom, he'd have learned that lesson long ago.

Everyone has reasons they are they was they are.

Not being taught personal responsibility is one.

Not being taught patience, understanding, and loving your fellow man is another.

To heavydoug.

First of all, bro... let me say, as sincerely as I can, that I'm really sorry for your pain. Since I don't know you, who knows what kind of insults and garbage you may have had to put up with during your lifetime.

But having said that... I believe that you are selling yourself short, and that you are are really a more able person than you may think you are. However, that was not the fault of your great grandfather.

But I also believe that you are a finger-pointer and have some difficulty in accepting personal responsibility. I'm sorry, but that is self-inflicted. Mostly, because you have bought into the FALSE liberal group-think of victimization.

I personally came from a broken home and had a father who inflicted both physical and mental abuse. But the VERY day I stopped using him as an excuse and a crutch, my life turned completely around.

My point: stop blaming your parents, society, or whatever else you can think of. Better yet, get off this board and be the man the Good Lord intended for you to be.

And even though you are a stranger to me, I WILL be cheering for you... and wishing you everything that you're willing to work for.

Hey, Heavydoug and x-man
I support the US of A paying slavery reparations and they should start the day AFTER Italy pays my German ancestors for ripping them away from their homes, using them in mines and as galley slaves, castrating the men and raping the women, tearing apart homes and families.

Makes as much sense as your whines.....

Get off your behind and DO something about it!

heavydoug
What you are doing isn't forgivness nor is it humility... it is nothing less than enabling and encouraging the very behavior you rightly recognize is destroying so many black people.

You CANNOT lower the standard simply because of an inequity of social advantages.

I harbor little doubt that you are personally responsible to a significant extent. I don't doubt your compassion. I do doubt the intelligence of excusing people from wrongdoing simply because they weren't raised in an ideal environment. At some point these adults have to take responsibility for themselves...

The Bible and common morality dictates that if you know something is wrong you have an obligation not to do it... Do you think the young black thugs who are abusing and impregnating those young girls don't know they're doing wrong? Do you think they don't know that robbery, murder, lying, drug use/distribution, etc are morally wrong?

Please, please don't tell me you actually believe that.

Before liberals got control of our gov't, church and other civic groups saw the poor as their responsibility. Not only did they supply the needs of the poor, they taught them how to overcome their plight, instilled values, and helped stabilize the community. Since the New Deal and in particular Great Society, the churches voice has been muted in needy communities... and we are reaping the results.

If you truly want this thing fixed, get the gospel in and the gov't out.

No apologies here
Or whining, or some appeal for martyrdom.

But I'm not going to let Agar or anybody else come in riding some high-horse.

Who the heck are any of you to get off thinking you have an inside track on solving black people's issues.

It's one thing to come asking questions and being concerned, but the nerve!

I told you before the perfect phrase that describes you guys is

"born on third base and you Think... you hit a triple."

I hear a bunch of whiny brat who wouldn't last five minutes in the "hood" or probably any other test of character.

You guys are the whiners in the movies someone has to smack in the face because they can't control their panic when the plane has engine trouble.

Well I will be the one to deliver the...


SLAP!!

Now snap out of it!

or keep whining, who cares?


(Jaydee although I didn't qite understand your response, I have sympathy for your mom)

BTW doug
No one in here pontificates any more than you... you can drop the poor little me act. ie. accusing others of having an attitude of superiority.

No apologies here
Or whining, or some appeal for martyrdom.

But I'm not going to let Agar or anybody else come in riding some high-horse.

Who the heck are any of you to get off thinking you have an inside track on solving black people's issues.

It's one thing to come asking questions and being concerned, but the nerve!

I told you before the perfect phrase that describes you guys is

"born on third base and you Think... you hit a triple."

I hear a bunch of whiny brat who wouldn't last five minutes in the "hood" or probably any other test of character.

You guys are the whiners in the movies someone has to smack in the face because they can't control their panic when the plane has engine trouble.

Well I will be the one to deliver the...


SLAP!!

Now snap out of it!

or keep whining, who cares?


(Jaydee although I didn't qite understand your response, I have sympathy for your mom)

heavydoug still delusional
Why do we think we know how to help?

Because many of us have overcome difficulties to succeed. We've seen many others do it. Some of us have seen black people do it.

Even better, the Bible teaches principles and a gospel of salvation that WILL solve the "issues" from the inside out.

You probably come closer to starting on 3rd base than I did. I just didn't let being borned one generation removed from what many might consider poor white trash become my excuse to blame someone else or look for excuses when things didn't go my way.

And yes... that attitude IS SUPERIOR to the poor me victimitis you keep trying to excuse.

that's confusing...
"Who the heck are any of you to get off thinking you have an inside track on solving black people's issues."

So you are saying you don't need our help? Great. Stop asking gov't to pick my pocket to fund solutions or favor you over me through racial preferences and I'll butt out... If that's not acceptable then get over your proud self.


Heavydog
You have now established your age as too young to be 4th generation from slavery.

Anyone who was alive in the 40's knows of what I speak.

They remember the lines of people having the tattoo removed from thier forearms by a running iron when they were released from the concentration camps in Europe.

She was 15 when she was released.

And NO, I was NOT born on 3rd base.


My Family's Journey
Or "How I got to be so heavy".

If anyone cares I'll type it in. Maybe you'll actually learn something.

Let me know.

So what's the answer...
I have read many of these colunms the last 2 weeks, with the many comments going back and forth between black and white posters. I ask, what is the solution? The divide in this country is getting larger and larger. Thanks to all the diversity training that goes on these days, we spend way to much time talking about out differences and not about what we have in common. We can talk about the past until we are blue in the face, but unless any of you have built a time machine where we can go back in time and make changes to history, it time to think about the future and what can be done to bring harmony to people in this country. As a 48 year white woman, I am growing weary of all the bad mouthing that takes place about this great country we live in.

Heavydoug
First, quit drinking the koolaid.

Second, don't give me that crap about the hood. I've survived a lot tougher places than the hood. Twenty years as a combat arms NCO ought to tell you something.

I had good soldiers and I had mediocre soldiers and I had bad soldiers. They came in all different shades of brown.

The ones that usually did the worst came in with a chip on their shoulders about as large as the one you are carrying. If, and that's a big IF, they could get past "The world owes me." they usually became good soldiers.

Now. Bill Cosby, Colin Powell, Condaleeza Rice, Clarence Thomas, Thomas Sowell, Walter Williams, CSM Beach, CSM Mosely, 1SG Farley, 1SG Ed Johnson, 1SG William Martin and a host of people I work with speak the truth.

You are responsible for your situation. Fix it.

If you are not willing to do the work, then you deserve what you get.

heavydoug
I would love to know more about you. It is important.

REDRX8
Probably the large scale absorption of the black, white, and hispanic races into a singular American "race". A sociology professor where I went to college said that by the late 21st century he believed blacks would be absorbed into the white race to about the same extent the American Indians have been.

I doubt that will be fulfilled according to his prediction but think he had a point. The emerging black and hispanic middle and upper classes will probably meld into white America to a great extent by the end of this century. In spite of the rhetoric of those with a vested interest in perpetuating division, the relationships I see amongst these particular blacks and their white neighbors/co-workers are very good. Fewer and fewer parents on both sides are opposing mixed dating and marriage.

(My parents wouldn't have reacted well. My teenage children already know that I do not have a racial standard for who they date or marry... only a "content of their character" and salvation standard).

An African slave heritage may be looked upon some day by a white looking child with the same kind of pride that they claim some distant Indian ancestry now.

Need to do wrong to need forgiveness

talent scout;

the misapplication of the scripture x-man quotes in question ;

"..I believe there is a parable where a disciple has wronged his brother and this disciple asks Jesus how he should atone for his sins against his brother and Jesus tells him that he needs to apologize 70 times 7 to begin the atonement. By my count, we probably have a ways to go to reach that number."
------------


jaydee writes: 12:40 PM
Actually

is directional in nature.

It is incumbant upon him do do the forgiving.

In other words, those instructions are for him to GET OVER IT when it comes to slavery.

It is forgiving, not reparations mentioned.

just an observation

jd.

---
True
But there are two directions to be taken from this.
First thing is, I must do something to need forgiveness for, some wrong.
If I never done anything to this man, I owe him nothing, let alone an apology.

If he charges me of doing a wrong that I have not done, he is a false accuser.

And that is what x-man is, a false witness.
I never done anything wrong to any black man, or brown man to begin with just cause I was born white and American Indian.
My father was Scottish, my mother Cherokee.
I am not guilty of slavery anywhere in the world.
I am not guilty of passing Jim Crow Laws.
I owe no man anything

Jaydee
I'm mid-forties my dad was born in '36.

Look, I don't know everything. Like the iron thing. But I, like you, know my people.

I know their story and I see their nobilty, strength, courage, and sacrifice.

Your guys are acting like you are so omnipotent you sound like, "I would see my path and strive for my goals, leap all hurdles, and conquer my enemies," and on and on.


Horse Apples.

Some of you would... some of you wouldn't. Some would be fast some would be slow. Some of you sadly, may never make it...but whatever your outcomes, it would be..


Just like us.

The answer is forgiveness
REDRX8 writes: Friday, March, 28, 2008 2:07 PM
So what's the answer...
--------
Not accusations

No man today can be held responsible for sins of the past ages.
We have enough sins to go around for today without digging some added sins of the past.

Its false accusations to bring charges of past sins from former generations onto people who share the same skin tone.

Blacks must begin the healing themselves by forgiving the past and live for today.

Nothing any white man can do to heal black hatred who are the only ones who can heal race relations.
They must stop accusing falsely so the real living problems can be focused on and addressed.

So the answer for all race reLAtions is simple.
FORGIVE!
REAL AND IMAGINED WRONGS

Report from the White Community
Super article!

Heavy - consider this...
from Here's a poem the celebrated democratic/media black mouthpiece on race-issues Nikki Giovanni, a tenured faculty member at Virginia Tech:

Ni**er
Can you kill
Can you kill
Can a ni**er kill
Can a ni**er kill a honkie
Can a ni**er kill the Man
Can you kill ni**er
Huh? Ni**er can you
kill
Do you know how to draw blood
Can you poison
Can you stab-a-Jew
Can you kill huh? Ni**er
Can you kill
Can you run a protestant down with your
‘68 El Dorado
(that's all they're good for anyway)
Can you kill
Can you pis* on a blond head
Can you cut it off
Can you kill
A ni**er can die
We ain't got to prove we can die
We got to prove we can kill

Ummm - is this who you refer to when lectuing/teaching me about black role models helping raise another generation of disaffected black teenagers?

Good news is that now the underbelly of black racism has been exposed the white majority is discovering dirty little self-loathing like this and reexamining race relations and why the hell they feel manipulated, pressured and coerced into feeding this crapola.

Don't worry though, the adults will be here soon to straighten this mess out adn you'll be freed from bondage once again.

religiouslib
That crap about a level playing field is just that. Crap.

No one, except an heiress or son of a tycoon, starts off advantaged more than others.

You get what you are willing to work for. If you are not willing to work for it, you don't deserve it.

hardthought
on this specific thread i have given studies and facts that prove the playing field is not level.

you can choose to ignore them.

on the other hand you cite bill cosby as someone who has it right well here is what he says

Let’s deal first with what people call the systemic—the, the racism that exists in this country, which is absolutely for real. But people just say it. They say, “Well, there’s systemic and institutional racism.” “What do you mean by that?” Well, what I mean is that the power structure can stop a person from getting a better education. It can stop them from living in better conditions. It can stop improvements from being made. For instance, if you have a slum landlord, if you’re lower, lower economic, to get that fixed, to bring the law in on this person, it, it just doesn’t happen. If police decide to ride in and arrest, if laws are made to go against you, I mean, this kind of thing is very, very hurtful. And then we move into areas of health, health care, where racism can stop a person from getting immediate attention...


Buck
Who ordained you to speak for white people?

Talk about bull in a china shop.



Talent scout is right.

The responsibilty for fixing the problems of the black community is solely on the shoulders of those same blacks.

My point is, who in the blazes is Agar, or you guys, to bleat like three year olds who don't know, or respect the legacys of the very same nation they claim such a deep, undying patriotic love for?


Who are you to say when or how these changes occur?


Love is not blind. It sees the goos and the bad.

And Jewish people; should neee..ver complain about anything. America helped and is still helping you have your own country. I have no problems with Jewish people but you guys welfare plan is in effect.


A Report from the White Community
As a representative of the white community and have always felt that blacks generally have gotten a raw deal. However, with years of affirmative action, I feel that society has more than paid them back for unjustice.

All one has to do is to look at any basketball or football team and wonder if all this hasn't evolved into reverse discrimination. My impression has been of this has been reinforced when some black people have told me that they deserve more than an equal playing field to gain benefits of the American dream.

So, I think its time that we forget ourselves as being black, white, dark or otherwise. Why can't we simply be Americans and help each other realize our dreams?

level playing field
Lib - I feel the pain. Why just the other day I demanded the Dallas Mavericks interview me for starting center position at least until Dirk heals and the told me I wasn't tall enough - they also had the balls to me I wasn't talented or qualified to compete in the NBA. They also told me that very few Italians (pronounced eye-tal-yuns....oh the nerve!) have the genetic make-up to succeed in the NBA.

I am writing my senator and congressmen to demand that the Mavericks - hell the NBA for that matter - level the playing field for EYE-TAL-YUNS and set-aside a quota (level playing field) for old, fat, balding men and women over 40. By the way, it is not fair that I would compete against such large, strong atheletic men, so I am also demanding that my competition resembles me so the playing field is level.

Hard Thought
Another myth is that black children don't have access to an education. Many have access, many just don't utilize or appreciate the opportunity. In any area that there is an "unlevel" playing field look at the administrators, NEA, Dept. of Education. It is a known fact that as a nation we spend vast amounts on public education for ALL citizens. T what avail??? My daughter has taught in Title IV, "at-risk" schools her entire career. She got results from her students. She had to fight tooth and nail with the principal(a black woman), superintendent of the district (a black man), counselor (a black woman) continually in regards to their dumbing down the level for these children. My daughter's students tested the highest in the entire district in their district assessment tests. She demanded quite, do your work, do your homework and always loved and wanted the best for her kids, 95% which were black. These posters such as doug, x, religiouslib are so blinded by their own bigotry, I have come to feel it is they that can never change. It is no surpise with liberals in charge of education for so many years that many, many black children now live up to the lower standard. Afterall, it's evidently what demmies, libs and many blacks seem to want; and people have a way of getting what they want...

Answers, we got Answers
"HeavyDoug:
The effect of generations of negative depictions and role model on black tenagers has been:"

1. the belief that actions have no consequences, and screaming YOUARACIST! is the answer to every attempt to teach them better;

2. the worship of their sex organs to the point where their heroes brag about the thousands of women women they have bedded and the hundreds they have impregnated and abandoned; i.e., has been Toddler Liberation -- the absolute right to put everything in their mouths, to pull down their pants in public, and to yell "poo poo head!" in a crowded theatre;

3. their being utterly convinced that they can have everything they want, the instant they want it, and somebody else will pay.

And for you to assume that every white person (and you can only assume we're white because you cannot see us) is exactly like the monolithic Bad Daddy you carry around in your head is what happens when you hang around Rev. Wright and Malcolm X too much.


Heavydoug
Slavery was and is an abomination.

Racism exists and is an abomination.

I am going to assume we agree. Starting from there, agar has written a Report from the White Community. He is providing information, which has large areas of applicability. You apparently believe whites are not entitled to feel as many do. Many whites feel you are not entitled to feel as you do. Am i still talking to you, not past you? My goal for several reasons, is to be part of the inter-racial solution, not inter-racial problems. I'll get back later, my next student just walked in. I tutor math students. My current student is a "minority" second grader. The Charter School i tutor at is 2/3 minority in my home room.

HD
What you are reading from folks like Buck if you don't get it is... blacks and liberals are overplaying the sympathy you now enjoy from the vast majority of whites... and specifically conservative whites.

Think in these terms if you want to know the magnitude of that... Our country divides roughly 50-50 between the Dems and Reps. Only 10% and 30% respectively of blacks and hispanics vote Rep. Both groups represent around 15% of the electorate. That means that something on the order of 60-70% of whites are now voting GOP... and most of the ones who aren't are elderly.

You are in a much more precarious political situation than you think when you continue to alienate white people.

Agar wrote
"The single most important contributing factor to multi-generational poverty is the fact that 70 percent of black children are born to single mothers. Are white guys getting these ladies pregnant and then abandoning mother and child? If so, shame on those white guys. Something should be done. Are black guys the love ‘em and leave ‘em culprits? Yes? Well, shame on them then and leave the white guys out of it. Shame on the women as well.

Too high a percentage of young black men are in prison. Are the courts unfair? We should fix that if it is true, but as Bill Cosby has pointed out, you can argue that a black man getting a tougher sentence for dealing crack than a white guy does for selling cocaine is unfair, or you could stop dealing crack! That’ll fool them. They won’t be able to lock you up."


What total disregard for the way human beings really make decisions and interface with the world they live in face and it's challenges.

This guy sounds like he hasn't been around the corner let alone the block.

But let me answer as flippantly and as racially as Agar.


It was a bunch of White.. Dead- Beat- Dads-that started this debacle!

You want to lay claim to the greatness of Washington, Jefferson, etc, but you don't want to accept that they, and white men just like them, started these fatherless families. By raping these black women, producing unwanted, rudderless children which were flung into a world with little or no guidance.

Strong parents are vital! to success.


And even with all that, they have sucessfully contributed way more than there share to this country.

Stop whining and suck it up!



Say what?
heavydoug writes:

"My point is, who in the blazes is Agar, or you guys, to bleat like three year olds who don't know, or respect the legacys of the very same nation they claim such a deep, undying patriotic love for?

Who are you to say when or how these changes occur?"

We are the ones who are working our a**es off to make lives for ourselves, our families, and our children while having our wallets raped and hard earned money taken from us to be given to people to lazy and irresponsible to follow the rules of society, get of their a**es and take care of themselves. If we are going to be forced to pay for the irresponsible behavior taking place in the black community while at the same time getting shown absolutely ZERO respect from the same people demanding to be taken care of, we damn sure ought to be able to demand changes. That is "Who we are".

Why is Barack Obama running for Pres?

He claims that he is uniquely qualified to “bring our country together” and that despite his lack of experience and relative youth, he has demonstrated superior “judgment”.
Obama has now acknowledged Reverend Jeremiah Wright, used incendiary language that widened the racial divide. Obama says of (his) fellow congregants that (their) anger is real; it is powerful; and that not understanding its roots, serves to widen the chasm between the races.
If Obama is really the Reconciler in Chief, why didn’t he change the hearts of Rev. Wright and his flock over the past 20 years? Everyone is asking what influence the good Reverend had on the candidate, but shouldn’t we be wondering why the very people Obama knew best; still hate America, the White Man and Israel?
With regard to the issue of judgment; Obama demeans President Bush, John McCain and the Clintons claiming that they didn’t know what was going on inside Saddam’s closed police state, (10,000 miles away) meanwhile he didn’t know what was happening in the pew right next to him.
I think that pretty well puts the qualifications issue to rest.




Interesting Article Mr. Agar...

You have helped to absolve "White People" of their undeserved guilt. Thank You! I hope your message is as clear to others as it is to me.

African-Americans like Cosby are pushed aside by the Wrights and Obamas of this Great Nation. Being selfless is seen as a weakness among African-American leaders. Bling and Limos are all the rage. Materialism a mantra.

I will admit, many "Whites" share much of the same ignorance, want, and hatred...

They're called Democrat Victims as well.

Jews should never complain?
Says you, doug. Your post tells me everything I need to know. You say you have no problem with Jews, and I say you are lying.

The Jews have been one of the most mistreated groups down through history. They have been enslaved throughout their history too. Yet, strangely, I never hear Jews claiming that a substantial number of Jews are losers because of that.

What has destroyed too many blacks was LBJ's policies. A removal of natural consequences is to blame for the poverty rate among blacks.

There are far too many successful blacks who have worked their way to where they are, so it does not make sense that slavery or discrimination has brought on the problems we see among the poor blacks.

When getting an education is "acting white," when successful blacks are called "Uncle Toms," and when open season is practically declared on Conservative blacks, it tells me that there are some pathologies in the black community that have nothing to do with slavery.

fatmouth doug
Follow your own advice: "Stop whining and suck it up!"

Slavery is NOT the only cause of the horrendous fatherless family syndrome in the black homes. In fact, there isn't much historic facts to back you up on this myth.

As others have said slavery is a despicable practice. However, it has not been practiced in America for nearly 150 years. There are hundreds of thousands of white boys that died to end it in the Civil War. Jim Crowism was institutionally and constitutionally done away with almos 50 years ago. As you continue to wallow in the mire of the past, THIRTY THOUSAND YOUNG BLACK MEN HAVE BEEN MURDERED BY OTHER BLACK MEN in America, in the short time we've been in Iraq.

I don't see you for that matter barely ANY blacks protesting that, having a million man march against, resurrecting a monument or wall to honor them, or doing one damn thing to stop this on-going self-inflicted GENOCIDE. Continue to believe myths, foster bigotry and hatred. Because right now the only return you and race industry participants are getting is the total dissemation of your young black children. Hatred fosters death and on that you definitely are not being deprived!!!!!!!!!

heavydoug
So you believe in fatalism now?

Do you have real proof that the rape of slaves by white men was a common experience or that it was even a fact with Jefferson?

TJ was widely reputed to have had a relationship with Sally Heming. In France, he treated her not as a slave but as the lady of the house. Upon his death, she was freed along with her children. At worst, it was a consentual relationship. However a documentary awhile back said that it was more likely that her children did not belong to Jefferson but rather one of his relatives. I think they determined that by comparing DNA from known descendants. It was the most thorough report yet and stated that Sally's son was probably by TJ's younger brother.

In any event, the TJ was very benevolent toward Heming and her children at a time when it was not fashionable to do so.

There is no evidence that GW fathered any children black or white. He may well have been sterile.


And another thing or two
I am mainly of German and Irish descent. My ancestors came to this country poor but with a good work ethic. My Irish ancestors faced discrimination and exploitation in the factories in the north. My earliest German ancestor came for land (he was not an oldest son so did not inherit family land in Germany). I thank God that my ancestors had the good sense to come to America.

I am sick of blacks beating the drum of slavery. It is in the past and you cannot change the past. Families of African descent have not always been in the crisis in which many are in today, so it does not make any sense at all that slavery is to blame. People trying to "help" has created the mess that many blacks find themselves in.

religiouslib
So that means that I, having started as a poor farm boy with school clothes bought once a year, should have been disadvantaged and not made Sergeant First Class in the Army, shouldn't have finished my college (took 17 years, but I did it) got a job in information technology at the skilled level.

All that is because I was "lucky" and "advantaged".

Give me a freaking break.

My parents and mentors expected of me and I delivered.

I expected of my son and he delivered. He is AmerAsian. Where is the AA for him?

You get what you work for, not what you blame others for.

BTW, those studies are done by sociologist bureacrats that need those studies to be negative to justify their jobs. Crap.

Bottom line doug
You and I are responsible for what WE do as individuals. My grandfather was racially prejudiced... Would I be excused if I were? According to your logic, I should be a racist without guilt since my forefathers predestined me to it.

The problem of black illegitimacy has virtually nothing at all to do with slavery particularly or white people generally. If that were the case it would have gotten BETTER as whites made more and more concessions to blacks and became less and less prejudiced. Instead since 1960 white have become less racist while black illegitimacy has doubled.

Just a guess... you might want to start with liberation theology in looking for things to reject to help fix the problem... and get back to the biblical gospel.

iroc99
Everything that makes the world work, and that established this country is not related to your paycheck or your incessant whining about taxes.

Your world may be, but let me remind you, while you snivel, people have and are laying life and limb for this country.

If your only gripe is about your taxes, I have no respect for you.

You are not whining about the money that is being borrowed to fund this war.

You are not even being taxed for that at all. (a travesty) You are irresponsible selfish, and mis-guided.

Show you respect?!

Man, please. I will hurt your feelings.

heavydoug concerning iroc
You do that intentionally, don't you?

You twist what people write out of context so that you can make a point. That is dishonest doug. Are you no better than that? Didn't your mother who taught you not to steal, teach you not to be deceptive in any form?

He was specifically speaking to wealth transfer payments from those who earn money to those who refuse to do so... Last time I checked, the police, firemen, soldiers, et al that are laying down their lives... were earning their wages.

FTR, total discretionary spending is something around 20% of the budget. Entitlement spending which includes all those wealth transfer payments makes up most of the rest. The debt caused by the Great Society programs of LBJ costs more in interest than the military budget.

IOW's, get rid of the unconstitutional and stupid liberal programs and we can afford to provide necessary services, infrastructure, defend ourselves, pay off our debt, and STILL give the American people a 50% tax cut.

So much great dialog
Though Obama and Wright never intended to they've accomplished two important things: 1. Showed us all that blacks and liberals can be racist and 2. Started an important dialog. I often wonder when liberals speak if they truly believe in what they are saying. The more you read regarding this issue about what liberals are saying the more I hope the average person comes to understand how twisted their logic and reasoning is.

Another great TH article and conversation starter. Bottom line, you want a color-blind society it starts with you. You want good neighbors it starts with you. Stop the hate and show some love.

Dottie Please
Dottie writes: Friday, March, 28, 2008 3:40 PM
Jews should never complain?
Says you, doug. Your post tells me everything I need to know. You say you have no problem with Jews, and I say you are lying.

The Jews have been one of the most mistreated groups down through history. They have been enslaved throughout their history too. Yet, strangely, I never hear Jews claiming that a substantial number of Jews are losers because of that.

What has destroyed too many blacks was LBJ's policies. A removal of natural consequences is to blame for the poverty rate among blacks.

There are far too many successful blacks who have worked their way to where they are, so it does not make sense that slavery or discrimination has brought on the problems we see among the poor blacks.

When getting an education is "acting white," when successful blacks are called "Uncle Toms," and when open season is practically declared on Conservative blacks, it tells me that there are some pathologies in the black community that have nothing to do with slavery.


Dear Dottie,

Jews complaining about blacks, is like black complaining about Naive Americans.

You are so confused you don't even know the side of history you are on.

Loved this paragraph Dottie.


You said:

When getting an education is "acting white," when successful blacks are called "Uncle Toms," and when open season is practically declared on Conservative blacks, it tells me that there are some pathologies in the black community that have nothing to do with slavery.

It has everything to do with slavery, Genius. Where do you think the term "uncle tom" came from.

Sheesh.

Heavydoug
Are you getting the impression yet that most Americans of any race tend to believe they worked hard and earned any success they might have had. Most people's experience is when they work hard, their grades, salary prestige go up, and when they goof, these things deteriorate. Consequently, they believe that success is a reward for effort. Everyone sees people around them in very similar starting circumstances achieve much different results. The work ethic and its importance to success in their own lives is translated to others. This recognition that upward mobility is possible for all has made the United States a unique melting pot, a world wide immigration goal. Very few folks believe they started on 3rd base compared to their neighbors. You are not solving anything by bringing up injustices that few people feel responsible for. If you want to see things improve, as i do, try my solution. Brighten the corner where you are. That's how i was selected volunteer of the year in Washington DC. It wasn't for tutoring white kids.

heavydoug
That response is typical of what I would expect from you. The fact of the matter is that while there are millions of citizens in this great country, both black and white, who shoulder their responsibilities to work, take care of themselves and their families, their children, and yes to pay their taxes - there are way too many in the black communities that absolutely refuse to do anything for themselves. They don't work, they take no responsibility for themselves let alone their children or their community, and on top of that they expect the rest of society to bend over backwards to give them shelter, food, etc. Not only do these people feel that they shouldn't be required to work and pay taxes themselves, they feel that everyone else should be taxed to pay for their wants and needs. No one can be blamed for this attitude but themselves. This attitude has nothing to do with slavery....it has everything to do with lack of responsibility, immaturity, selfishness, laziness, and a general childishness no different than that of a child refusing to do chores around the house.

Savage99
I respect every person's struggle and every people's struggle.

But, it's high time you started You started respecting my people's struggle.

Listen carefully...

No immigrant experience every entailed having your mother sold.

Having your manhood degraded to a point where you allowed yourselves to be addressed as "boy".

Having your children raped.

And you say it was a long time ago..

Sorry, you whiny selfish brats..

It just wasn't long enough.


You think you know so much and you don't know ANYTHING.

Your family's underdog story is a ride on the gravy train compared to a slave's.

The nerve of you. We probably wouldn't even be a country withour black people.

Every war, every meaningful change, black people have been in the front!

Sorry, if you don't love us. That doesn't mean agree or condone everything. But if you don't love and respect Our story...

You are not American.

Heavydoug
It's a distraction to start bringing taxes and the Iraq war into this, but FWIW the last two "world wars" we were involved in were funded by "war bonds," bought voluntarily by US citizens. (Of all races, BTW.)

You want to talk about how hard it was to be black in the fifties, yet you are too young to have been there.


As a white kid in the fifties, it puzzled me why we went to a nice new high school over two miles from home, when there was another high school less than half that distance away. It was the black school, and beside the fact that it was poorly equipped and maintained, some of the nearby peckerwoods would periodically vandalize the place!

Since my Dad drove a taxi, he saw the best and worst of everyone, black and white. Being a first-generation American with little education, Dad had picked up the prejudices of his parents and siblings. And yet, he did not have it within him to mistreat another person--regardless of color--who treated him OK. Economically, there were black steelworkers who were far better off than we, and I never heard resentment from Dad about that. What I heard--constantly--was "get an education, so you will have more choices than the few lousy ones I have."

His resentment of blacks was categorical, but not personal. And I think it was justifiable to an extent, since nobody was standing up and hollering about helping him better HIS condition.

The Fifties was not the era of Beaver Cleaver, as many people seem to think, regardless of your race.

I see now
heavydoug sees every black person as one and every slave experience as a conflation of all the worst experiences. He uses that to justify his bitterness and deep down hatred for people who never contributed one iota to all those things he's embittered over.

doug, no one did those things to YOU. Moreover, none of US did those things to you or any of your ancestors...

I DO lament the horrible treatment of blacks in America. I DO celebrate the victorious lives of so many.

I celebrate the success of so many black people today to include many friends. But I also lament the modern reenslavement of so many black people to gov't dependency and a hopeless life... and that's ultimately what this conversation is about. Not the past, but the future.

Shelby Steele
This man understands the black problems. If more blacks followed Shelby's advice, they would see an end to poverty.

Why do blacks from upper-class homes (70-$100)a year do worse on SATS than whites from poor homes of less than 10K a year?? Mr. Steele answers the question. It's not because of a lack of intelligence. It's because they still carry their "victim" card and believe they don't have to excell, simply because they are black.

If blacks don't stop this endless chain of "hating whitey" and the personal destruction, it will only get worse.

There is also an unspoken rule, within the black community, of "keeping whitey on the hook" and "they get to decide when whites are let off." They see that as their source of power.

What you see here is "whitey" taking themselves off the hook and blacks will have to deal with it. You can thank Obama and his "we need to have a conversation about race" for what's happening.

I have never heard just how the "playing field" was supposed to be leveled. That is a phrase that used universally and nobody seems to understand what it means. The field is tilted toward minorities and it needs to be leveled. Maybe then self-responsiblity and excellence will be rewarded, not failure and sub-par performance.

heavydoug
You have generalized the experiences of black slaves, somehow made that an affront to all blacks but especially you, and then rationalized your contempt for those who disagree with this fantasy?

Do you really think that unforgiving spirit held against people who have done you nor your ancestors no harm and for crimes committed by people who did you no harm is going to help anything?

iroc99
Ahh, if only it were that simple friend.

Those things you were talking about are learned qualitys.

You take them for granted but trust me, if you grow up wild learning those things is a formidable task.

You are looking at everything thru you eyes. Imagine if you couldn't read. Imagine is you were considered ugly. Imagine if instead of love from your parents you received violence.

That's monumental, you can do it, but when you have to teach yourself everything, you have so much more ground to make up. If obstacles are placed on a group, some will take more time than others to make it.

Example
heavydoug, I am a big UT Vols football fan. Have been for a long time.

Currently they have a safety named Demetrice Morley. A little over a year ago, he was kicked off the team for failing to take academics seriously. He could have melted. He also fathered a little girl. He could have run.

Instead, he made a goal of coming back. He could have avoided some of the difficulty by going somewhere else but instead he took it head on. At times he lived in his car. He worked menial jobs while going to community college to get his grades back up.

This spring he convinced the coach and administration to give him another chance. By all accounts, he's taken responsibility and grown into a real man. He is active in the life of his daughter and wants to support her.

The guy is an incredible athlete... but IMO there is nothing he'll ever do more heroic than having faced up to his own failures and taking full responsibility for them.

sjt18
You are more delusional than you know.

Apparently you feel slavery wasn't all that bad.

Do you think you should be considered seriously?

How about I come and get you and put you to work for me?

"I'll treat you nice, you'll be an artisan."

I hope you have not bred.

An answer to the question
Why do so many of us want blacks to "get over it"? Because we have... we have let go of that old hatred and prejudice or are well along the path to doing so. We want that day MLK talked about when we join hands as brothers and judge one another on the content of one's character. We want peace. The grudges that blacks like doug and Wright keep bringing up only promote dissention and more division.

In effect, we have repented and done all we can to express our desire to reconcile... and you refuse to forgive us even though we aren't personally responsible for the crimes that weren't even committed against you personally in most cases but rather against your ancestors.

WHY OBAMA IS BAD FOR AMERICA
BOTTOM LINE

.....The doctrine of the Trinity Church is based on Black Theology which among it's tenets are that all Blacks are victims of White Racism and that the redistribution of wealth as defined by Marxism is the desired end ...

.....Obama brought his family to this church for twenty years to be indoctrinated into this ideology ...I don't want this man in any position of authority within our Government .....COLOSSUS

heavydoug
Why do you continue to lie?

I simply pointed out the historical fact that not all slave experiences were the same. Some were physically brutal, some were not.

Did I suggest that slavery was just? No. But you obviously prefer that strawman to my real arguments... which you obviously can't answer. If you could, you would rather than resorting to childish ad hominem attacks.

Your latest posts make you appear to be a moral coward.

Man's inhumanity to man
I have Scottish heritage. Few people know that many Scots came here during the Highland Clearances. That was when absentee landlords decided their lands were more suited for raising sheep than human habitation. They sent enforcers into the Highlands to throw people out of their homes - in the dead of winter. If you had an elderly family member who couldn't be moved, they just nailed them inside the house and set fire to it. With the family standing by to watch. Many of these people spent the winter outside or in caves. Many died. The ones who didn't made it to America's shores as fast as they could. We all have our horror stories. My feeling is, given what is going on in Africa today, if I were black I would sure be glad my forefathers got here whatever way they did.

FWIW
If you are an employee of a company today, you are far more like the higher classes of slaves in Greco-Roman times than a "freeman".


Man's Inhumanity to Man
I have Scottish heritage. Few people know that many Scots came here during the Highland Clearances. That was when absentee landlords decided their lands were more suited for raising sheep than human habitation. They sent enforcers into the Highlands to throw people out of their homes - in the dead of winter. If you had an elderly family member who couldn't be moved, they just nailed them inside the house and set fire to it. With the family standing by to watch. Many of these people spent the winter outside or in caves. Many died. The ones who didn't made it to America's shores as fast as they could. We all have our horror stories. My feeling is, given what is going on in Africa today, if I were black I would sure be glad my forefathers got here whatever way they did.

HEAVYDOG

.....I might consider becoming a slave if Angelina Jolie was my mistress ...

.....Did you ever hear of Shawana the black lesbian dominatrix biker who rode with Dyk*s on Bikes? ...she had a chance encounter one moonless night with Otto a White Supremist from Aryan Nation ...

.....In her black leather skin tight outfit she took her cat-o-nine-tails to Otto's rump and by morning he was on his knees and loving it .....COLOSSUS


sjt18
No one blames anyone personally. s..

It's just we're over here doing our best, winning some losing some..

and some turkey is talking about hurry up! my taxes!

This ain't some casual "walk it off", "rub some dirt on it" , "pull your bootstraps" stuff.

Deep, serious, psycological problems, have been afflicted on blacks.


Most of this jim crow lynching stuff officially ended when I was a little boy.

Does that register?


It has not been long enough to recover from the holocaust of being chained, stolen, driven insane, then released with no parental units.

The nerve.

And that crazy stuff about God condoning slavery had you wearing grey and I was wearing blue.

Pastor.


HEAVYDOG

.....I don't care if your ancestors were enslaved ...so were mine if I want to go back in History far enough ...I don't cry for myself and I sure as h*ll aren't going to cry for you ...grow a pair and take your sob story somewhere else ...I'm not interested .....COLOSSUS

One Person
We keep generalizing about "blacks". It's only a segment of the black community that stigmatizes everyone, just as it is in the white community. All whites are racists because the KKK existed.

There are many successful blacks.How did they make it? Why do others not ask the same question and follow their examples?? It's simply because of the "grievance" industry which has made millions for the "grievance elite." The Wrights of the world will never let them forget that they are "nobodys", as he inasmuch stated in a sermon. That's why he is retiring in a $1.6 million dollar mansion in a gated community, the very same lifestyle he tells his followers to shun. What a hypocrite!

When ONE black or white man decides he is going to break the cycle, he forever changes the condition of his descendants. Too many people simply pass on the hate and grievances to future generations.

All I have to say to people who continue to waller in hatred and blaming "society" for all their ills, is "How's that working out for you??" Self pity is destructive and having grew up in poverty and jeered and made fun of because my father was an alcholic bum.I never had an indoor bathroom until I was 18 and never had a phone or TV. I changed my life by changing my friends, which saved my life.

What I'm hearing from people here, is that blacks want people to feel sorry for them...to "validate" their feelings and they want whites to feel miserable. I think whites did feel sorry for their condition, but that was until they found out they were hated and taking all the blame.

I have the utmost respect for anyone who takes responsibility for themselves and zero for anyone who doesn't, black or white.


sjt18
If a black man is a slave, and treated well, provided for, etc. educated and dressed by his master.(we're not even discussing the 80-90 percent that were laborers left in squalor)

Your crazy butt seems to think that's not so bad.

Do you not know what an abomination it is to steal another's work. How dare you.

Dude, I'm telling you, you are cracked.

Apparently, you have not crossed the thresold of being a true Christian.

And with the Pastor stuff.

You are a waste of time.

We should ignore heavydoug
He is obviously as racist as they come. Anyone who blames all whites for slavery (which if he beats that dead horse one more time it will fall apart) has some issues that we cannot fix. He will not listen to reason because he has his mind made up that slavery is what "destroyed" blacks. Yet, he has never once explained to us why so many blacks have risen above it and become quite successful.

If people like heavydoug had a fraction of the fortitude as their enslaved ancestors, they would not whine and cry and have a "whitey owes me" mentality. It is a shame how far he has fallen from his obviously noble ancestry.

Explain why Jews have been largely successful when they have a history of incredible abuse, doug. You don't want to address that because you can't.

The black poverty in America today has nothing to do with slavery whatsoever because if it did--all blacks would be in poverty and that is definitely not the case.

Doug cannot expect us to be sorry about a sin we did not participate in. My ancestors were way too poor to have slaves, and they were Northerners so they fought to free the slaves. Saying that white people owe blacks for slavery is like saying all present day Africans owe American blacks for having sold the slaves to white slave traders in the first place.

The point is not going anywhere
Just when were YOU a slave, Doug? You did not experience it, so stop your senseless babble.

May we see the way things are
pharoah

Thanks for your honest, clear, tough, fact-filled postings. You have courage to report what you see.

Here's a Celtic blessing:

May we walk this world
With eyes wide open.
May we walk with hearts on fire.

Heavyboy
Heavy is a 14 year old Jewish kid living in New Jersey. His great granddad was a Rabbi not a slave. He does this kind of crap all the time. It is best to just IGNORE him until his Mama comes home and makes him get off HER computer.

Dottie Please
I have said before:

blacks would still be slaves if it wasn't for good white people.(not the kind of ultra conservative, boderline bigots, on this site)But good people who stand for real things and fight the good fight.

The whiny crap I'm hearing from you and your buddys- "don't blame me" "I wasn't there" is pathetic.

Except the country as it is. Love it. The good and the bad. That's real love. Not some lapel pin flag crap you guys do.

I keep trying to tell you.

It's not black and white it's the enlightened and the unenlightened.

You guy are responsible for the most pathetic administration is in U.S. history and have the nerve not to look in the mirror at your own selves.

Studies and Truth
Dear religiouslib

How naive can you get? Academic studies are known to be notoriously biased in favor of the ideologies of the researchers. I examined enough of them when I was in grad school. Often their conclusions were not supported even by their own data.

The studies you cite do not prove what you say they prove. The businesses preferring other applicants to blacks may be basing their choices on the behavior, not the race, of current blacks, and may indicate past experiences of the businesses.

The statistics that black students tend to be expelled more frequently than other races needs more information for an accurate interpretation. Were they more violent and disruptive in general than, say, Asian or white students?

Come on, religiouslib - THINK as you read the NY Times inadequate report of a dubious study.

oh brother, doug
The only bigot I see is you. Here is what you and your ilk will accomplish with your pathetic whining about slavery--Obama won't come even close to the presidency. Then we will have to listen to years of your whining about how racist America is because it did not elect him.

We are the enlightened, doug. You are woefully ignorant. As I said, if you had a fraction of the fortitude of your ancestors you would not be spouting out the garbage you are spouting.

You were never a slave, doug, and you cannot give me one reason I should hang my head in shame over a sin long dead of which I had nothing to do. Have you vented your spleen at Africa, doug? You do realize it was other blacks who sold blacks into slavery don't you?

Keep talking, Doug. You will turn off more and more people and Obama will lose by the most lopsided electoral vote count in the history of the country.

If you or anyone else in this country is a failure, doug--you need only look in the mirror for the one to blame.

Please explain how the Bush presidency is the most pathetic in history. I have a lot of things with which I disagree with the president. You need to explain your thinking though. Explain how it is worse than James K. Polk's....or Warren Harding...or Ulysses Grant....or any number of others.

As long as you keep your attitude that something is owed to blacks because of slavery, you are not ready for a true dialogue. You are going to have to hear some things you do not wish to hear, and what we have to say is valid.

Laisve
I'm pulling for the Celtics too.

Garnett should definately get MVP.

Uncle Gene:


usually your friends at least attempt to make a serious point...

until they dissolve into pointless namecalling out of frustration.