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Tuesday, January 02, 2007
Jeff Jacoby :: Townhall.com Columnist
Castro's true legacy is a trail of blood
by Jeff Jacoby
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It was on New Year's Day in 1959 that Fidel Castro's guerrillas toppled Fulgencio Batista, and a week later that Castro entered Havana and launched what has become the world's longest-lived dictatorship. This week thus marks the 48th anniversary of Castro's revolution -- and the last one he will celebrate, if the persistent rumors that he is dying prove to be true. Which makes this a good time to ask: What will be said about Castro after his death?

For decades, journalists and celebrities have showered Cuba's despot with praise, extolling his virtues so extravagantly at times that if sycophancy were an Olympic sport, they would have walked off with the gold. Norman Mailer, for example, proclaimed him "the first and greatest hero to appear in the world since the Second World War." Oliver Stone has called him "one of the earth's wisest people, one of the people we should consult."

The cheerleaders have been just as enthusiastic in describing Castro's record in Cuba. "A beacon of success for much of Latin America and the Third World," gushed Giselle Fernandez of CBS. "For Castro," Barbara Walters declared, "freedom starts with education. And if literacy alone were the yardstick, Cuba would rank as one of the freest nations on earth." Covering Cuba's one-party election in 1998, CNN's Lucia Newman grandly described "a system President Castro boasts is the most democratic and cleanest in the world."

During a 1995 visit to New York, writes Humberto Fontova in *Fidel: Hollywood’s Favorite Tyrant*, a blistering 2005 exposé of Castro and his regime, Cuba's maximum leader "plunged into Manhattan's social swirl, hobnobbing with dozens of glitterati, pundits, and power brokers." From the invitation to dine at the Rockefeller family's Westchester County estate to being literally kissed and hugged by Diane Sawyer, Castro was drenched with flattery and adoration at every turn.

When Castro dies, some of his obituarists will no doubt continue this pattern of fawning hero-worship. But others, more concerned with accuracy than with apologetics, will squarely face the facts of Castro's reign. Facts such as these:

? Castro came to power with American support.

The United States welcomed Castro's ouster of Batista and was one of the first nations to recognize the new government in 1959. Many Americans supported Castro, including former president Harry Truman. "He seems to want to do the right thing for the Cuban people," Truman said, "and we ought to extend our sympathy and help him to do what is right for them." It was not until January 1961 that President Eisenhower -- reacting to what he called "a long series of harassments, baseless accusations, and vilification" -- broke diplomatic ties with Havana. By that point Castro had nationalized all US businesses in Cuba and confiscated American properties worth nearly $2 billion.

Well before he came to power, Castro regarded the United States as an enemy. In a 1957 letter -- displayed in Havana’s Museo de la Revolucion, Fontova observes -- the future ruler wrote to a friend: "War against the United States is my true destiny. When this war's over, I'll start that much bigger and wider war."

? Castro transformed Cuba into a totalitarian hellhole.

Freedom House gives Cuba its lowest possible rating for civil liberties and political rights, placing it with Burma, North Korea, and Sudan as one of the world's most repressive regimes. Hundreds of political prisoners are behind bars in Cuba today. Among them, writes Carlos Alberto Montaner in the current issue of Foreign Policy, are "48 young people [imprisoned] for collecting signatures for a referendum, 23 journalists for writing articles about the regime, and 18 librarians for loaning forbidden books." Political prisoners can be beaten, starved, denied medical care, locked in solitary confinement, and forced into slave labor. Castro long ago eliminated freedom of religion, due process of law, and the right to leave the country.

He also wiped out Cuba’s once-flourishing free press. According to the Committee to Protect Journalists, Cuba is one of the world’s leading jailers of journalists, second only to China in the number of reporters behind bars.

? Castro stole Cuba's wealth.

While Cubans grew progressively poorer under communism, Castro exploited them to become one of the world's richest people. Foreign companies doing business in Cuba must pay a significant sum for each worker they hire -- but most of the money goes to Castro's regime, while the workers receive only a pittance. Castro also controls Cuba's state-owned companies, whose profits account for much of his wealth. Castro insists that his personal net worth is zero, but in 2006 Forbes magazine estimates the amount to be $900 million.

? Castro shed far more blood than the dictator he replaced.

According to the Cuba Archive, which is meticulously documenting the deaths of each person killed by Cuba's rulers since 1952, Batista was responsible for killing approximately 3,000 people. Castro's toll has been far higher. So far the archive has documented more than 8,000 specific victims of the Castro regime -- including 5,775 firing squad executions, 1,231 extrajudicial assassinations, and 984 deaths in prison. When fully documented, the body count is expected to reach 17,000 -- not counting the tens of thousands of Cubans who lost their lives at sea while fleeing Castro's Caribbean nightmare.

"Condemn me, it doesn't matter," Castro said long ago. "History will absolve me." But Castro's ultimate day of judgment draws near, and history is not likely to be so kind.

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About The Author

Jeff Jacoby is an Op-Ed writer for the Boston Globe, a radio political commentator, and a contributing columnist for Townhall.com. href="http://www.townhall.com/Secure/Signup.aspx">Sign up today

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Say it ain't so!
If Castro dies, which tyrannical dictator's boots will Hollywood's A-list lick? The mutt from Tehran or Chavez? Castro is such a tradition...

I vote for Chavez --
-- to answer California Gentry's question.

Not that I have any finger on the pulse of Hollywood -- just that Chavez is so much more photogenic, y'know? He makes for good TV.


After Fidel, Raoul
For about ten seconds, that is.

Raoul Castro, Fidel's 74-year-old "kid brother", is busy strong-arming everyone in sight, especially the military, to ensure that they "get the message" that he is Fidel's heir. Unfortunately for him, as head of Fidel's secret police for the last half-century (he took over from that progressive icon, Che Guevara), he has been the one who pulled the trigger on most of the 8000+ people murdered by the Castro family business- making him Albert Anastasia to Fidel's Vito Genovese. (I.E., the head of "Murder Inc.")

Which means that there are so many people who want his head on a platter that, politically and temporally speaking, he has the half-life of Fermium (a transitional element which only exists as a few atoms at a time in a rector after neutron bombardment). And many, if not most of the people who want him dead are in the Cuban military. Which outnumbers and outguns his secret police.

Look for Cuba to undergo something very much like what happened to the Congo a few years ago, when Laurent Kabila got the chop. I don't know what Cuba's government will look like afterward, but one way or another, Raoul won't be part of it.

It couldn't happen to a nicer guy.

cheers

eon

Oops
"rector"

reactor

It's early.

cheers

eon

When ANY
commie/liberal/socialist bites the dust, that is a "red" letter day. I hope that Jimmy Carter and Castro will be roommates in Hell for eternity.

We should have known!
The early history of Castro as a communist revolutionary includes the attack that burned much of Bogotá. Here is a recent story from the San Juan Star in Puerto Rico:

To: Alex Maldonado,
Thank you for the Sunday commentary on Jean Kirkpatrick. You did a good job of documenting the record. But, did you know if she ever met Ambassador William D. Pawley? He served during the Truman years as Ambassador to Peru and then to Brazil and was there when asked to lead the formative effort to make the OAS. The conference was to assemble in Bogotá in early 1948 and was intended to counter the obvious intent of the Soviets to use the period when the U.S. was spending billions via the Marshall Plan to rebuild Europe and had to neglect Central and S. America. The Russians figured they could spread their virus more easily, if the OAS did not happen.

The following, from the book I published for the family of William D. Pawley, outlines the Russian inspired campaign to foil the formation of the Organization of American States in Bogotá in early 1948. It shows how some knew about Fidel Castro long before he denied being a communist in1959.
The book entitled, "Why the Russians are winning" by William D. Pawley was completed in 1978 just before he died. He wrote about his connection to Fidel Castro in Chapter 11: See it at gratisbooks.com


Castro's true legacy is a trail of blood
Mr. Jacoby is right when he writes that history, if true and fair, will not be kind to Fidel Castro. His crimes are to big to ignore or hide.

But it is important not to forget that history must not be kind to those who showed kindness to Fidel Castro either. There kind are worst since it is because of them that we have tirants to begin with.

Salvador Vargas

Shun his enablers,
like Oliver Stone and Jimmy Carter. They are traitors who give aid and comfort to the enemy. We can also include most of the MSM, who never seem to find fault with murdering dictators and IslamoNazis as long as they "vote" democrat.

Castro's true legacy is a Charade..
Fidel Castro and his band of Mafiosos stoled Cuba. Is call the biggest fraud in the cuban history. Fidel is dead...Swimming in sewage waste. Evertyhing the Cuban Media is spewing is "DISINFORMATION" They are trying to buy more time.Raul Castro that's a joke...We shall see for 2007 keep your eyes open folk...


http://ihatecastro.blogspot.com/

Perhaps sanctions are the answer...
Oh, I forgot, we already have sanctions! Why does this little nation cause you big strong kkkonservatives so much grief? We've lost so much over Cuba, it's not longer funny. From JFK to Radio Martel, NOTHING HAS WORKED YOU DOPES! Look, you will get your chance to completely screw over Cuba in due time, just relax…take it easy.

China is commie and look how much Pappy Bush and Klinton gave to them over the past decade and a half? Permanent most favored nation trading status, explosive bolt technology for multi stage satellite rockets & ICBM’s and, of course, all of our money.

It is greed that drives the corporate/political/criminal element of this nation TO SELL HER OUT! You kkkonservatives live inside such a lie, it amazes me. You routinely and completely ignore every ounce of common sense God gave a sack of doorknobs and endorse policies guaranteed to cause you hurt. NAFTA, GATT, CAFTA, Patriot Act I and II, magical disappearing Habeas Corpus…it just never ends.

Looks like two for
the ban list.

donOldd~ those who suffered under Castro would have Loved to have been treated to nothing worse than a barking dog and underwear slapped over their heads.

There must be more
Villifying Castro just because he's a dictator isn't nearly enough to justify the ridiculous US policy of economic starvation that's been in place almost 50 years.

Egypt's Hosni Mubarak has been a dictator for 25 years, and he is the 2nd biggest recipient of US foreign aid. Musharaff in Pakistan also cashes a huge US check every month, while giving aid and comfort to Al Qaida and other radical Islamic groups.

Recently, there were columns praising Pinochet for leading Chile into a successful market economy despite his horrendous record of murder and oppression.

Florida is an important state politically, and the Castro-hating Cuban community is an important voting block there.
That seems to be the only reason we treat Cuba differently than a slew of other totalitarian regimes.

Another DU'er
slimed in here.

Zippiskootch...you're on the wrong site nimrod.

Those "sanctions" were enacted by a Democrat named JFK, right after he botched the Bay of Pigs.

And it was your hero Velcro-Fly Clinton who gave away nuke technology to China. Try researching WHO cleared the shipment of the Five-Axis milling machine to China.

Congressman Cox's report.
http://www.newsmax.com/articles/archive/get2.pl?a=1999/5/26/100833

Pound sand libgirl.

Here comes the moron,
Donaldd,

daring to compare what Castro has been doing to Abu Graib and Gitmo. Did this nearly-aborted fetus make it out of the womb this morning or sometime last week? How shortsighted and uneducated is this buffoon?

Here, get a clue, and maybe lock yourself in your room for the next 30 years and read factual events of the last half century or so of the various communist regimes. Then, maybe you'll be able to grasp a little of what hell millions of people had endured under communism. To complete your education, you'll need to rescind your American citizenship, if you're lucky enough to have one, and move to one of those commie paradises and live like a native under true socialism. Remember, you can't speak English in any one of those places, so you'll need to learn a few key phrases in the respective native languages, all of which must be praises and chants in support of your new "humanitarian" commie leader.

I guarantee you that a moron like yourself will not last more than a month in those hell holes. But then again, maybe being such a moron will afford you total obliviousness of any oppression or human violations. Either way, we won't have to hear from morons like yourself anymore. Good riddance.

Have a good ddday!.. DDDonalddd

MrPooh
Be careful lest you find yourself chopping wood in Siberia!

Quite a few of us have found ourselves in exile there for attacking whiny libgirls. (Check my blog for the history lesson on the evolution of libwimps!)

That said, your post was a scathing arrow into the empty head of DonaldDD. We thought that we were rid of the squirming maggot.

Interesting Times
I agree with YaNoMas that it is very likely that if Fidel Castro is dead, Raul is (or would be) spreading disinformation in order to gain time to maneuver.

The Spanish doctor isn't some guy out of the Spanish Yellow Pages---apparently he is an old friend and supporter of Castro's. He may be one to lie for the regime. In fact, the only people who have seen Fidel since October or thereabouts have been those who are inclined to lie for the regime (Chavez, Morales, various other leftists, and regime-employed journalists). A delegation of US Congresscritters made a trip to Cuba recently, and Raul didn't produce Fidel for them.

Kinda hard to prove one way or another-----and deliberately so.

There was a deal struck with Castro to end the Cuban Missile Crisis, but there is no way it was going to include any kind of immunity for Raul way back then. So, as Eon pointed out, Raul will have internal enemies---but he will also face the United States free to act overtly or covertly against his government.

Add to this one big 400-pound gorilla in the room: George W Bush and the contents of the archives of Cuban intelligence. It is highly doubtful (unlike in a Democratic Administration) that Bush, his supporters, or members of his Administration have old Soviet-era pay stubs in those archives. It is likely that many American leftists, who have decided Bush is the enemy instead of people who actually kill Americans, do. When Cuba transitions to a less-hostile government, this would be a prime time to declassify a lot of those Soviet-era pay stubs. Bush has every motive to ensure the fall of the Castro regime.

So, needless to say, once Fidel is dead (or known to be dead) Raul is a marked man.

The surgery
If the quote of the Spanish surgeon that Castro "does not have cancer" is accurate, that Castro did have cancer surgery is not denied.

MrPooh writes (correctly):
"Did this nearly-aborted fetus [Donaldd] make it out of the womb this morning or sometime last week? How shortsighted and uneducated is this buffoon?"

GunnyG is right about his warning. The deities at TH.com will wreak havoc and plagues upon you for daring to describing Donaldd for what he is.

Donaldd is a paid "useful idiot" for the socialists in America. He posts the usual leftist drivel given to him by whatever socialist organization cuts his check.

None of Donaldd's posts are original or even rational. His usefulness to TH.com is that he illustrates in real-time what the conservative bloggers/posters have said about the leftists in America: they (leftists) continue to spout anti-American tirades with the goal of overthrowing a free-market capitalist system and replacing it with a collectivist/socialist regime.


'Facts, liberals can't handle the facts!
The Western Left questioned Stalin's genocide of Ukranians and the existence of the Gulags until the Soviet Union finally denounced Stalin.

Appreciate that there are still so called educational TV programs questioning the guilt of spies like the Rosenbergs in spite of the fact that even the KGB files make it clear they were guilty.

Che Guevara, Castro's primary henchman, is still promoted as a cult hero to our youth and savior of "the people" in spite of what he said in his own writings.

Yet I am still amazed that few on the Left "get it" about Castro's Cuba. Why would so many, for so long place their lives and those of their family at risk to escape "paradise"? Especially to come to the evil, nasty, corrupt USA run by a vast right wing consipiracy where even the official poor have color televisions.





Fletch
Libs find it hard to believe that Castro's 5 year plans since the 60's has Cuban farmers now plowing with oxen while us dirty capitalist's use farm machinery.

I heard some libidiot on the tube a few weeks back who stated that while socialism has failed everywhere it's been tried, that it MAY work here and how will we know UNLESS WE TRY IT!

That pretty much summed up the liberal mindset for me.

GunnyG
For me, Adlai Stevenson pretty much summed up the liberal mindset when he said "a hungry man is not a free man."

What nonsense.

FergusMacLennan
Adlai...another socialist whiner.

In 1949, Governor Stevenson appeared as a character witness in the first trial of Alger Hiss.

Enough said.


Paradise?
Placing nuggets of truth about Castro's Cuba (??t?p?a) into a liberal's head is a sisyphean labor:

http://wheels128.blogspot.com/2005/03/cubas-horrible-not-free-healthcare.html

This one will roll out, too.

Paradise corrected...
Apparently, the Greek characters didn't make it through. What's in parenthes is "utopia". Sorry.

my 2 cents
Castro is and was a tyrant.

The embargo we imposed on him and have maintained ever since is the greatest gift we could have given him because it enables him to point to it and to the evil yankee gringos in le norte and blame US for the miseries he continues to impose on his people. But no one has the political cojones to end it because of the power of the Cuban lobby in Miami.

His fortune is estimated at 900 mil? Wow. How much good do you think that will do him when he is called to account by the God whose existence he seems to have spent his life denying?

DavidMac
Sorry to start off the new year on a negative note, but no overthrow will be necessary; the water is already boiling and the frogs haven't noticed. If you own a home, the government already seizes approximately 60% of your income, to be distributed to bums, welfare queens, drug addicts, p*ss-Christ artists, free drugs for wealthy seniors, foreign aid to various "peoples' republics," corporate welfare, etc. etc. Kelo has destroyed the last vestiges of property rights, the McCain-Feingold obscenity has deep sixed the First Amendment, and the Second Amendment is under assault. Electing Republicans doesn't seem to help--as we've seen, it's "meet the new boss, same as the old boss."

GunnyG
The two woman's pictures you have in your Blog give the place an aura of an amusement park house of horrors. I got by them this time. The last time I spooked and ran away.

Castro silencing the "Free Press"?
Our Educational system is silencing our free press. The pen is no longer mightier than the sword if our schools keep graduating politically indoctrinated illiterates who not only can't read their own Diplomas, they can't read an application for honest employment either!


GunnyG's House of Horror?
Click on the underlined GunnyG at the top of his post.

Leave it to a liberal DonaldD to protect
the murderer, Fidel Castro's reputation.
Just like this article decries, Liberals cannot seem to get their collective lips off Castro's Butt.
He does not even ask them to keep kissing it, but they keep doing it, loving every minute of it.
BTW anyone know the difference between an A$$ Kisser and a Brown Noser?
"Depth Perception!"
This is something the libs and the Lame Stream Media cannot muster.
I can't wait to hear what the idiots on "The View" have to say about Castro. LOL
As Forest Gump so aptly put it, "Stupid is as Stupid Does".

The Left and the MSM
This is sort of off topic here, but this is as good a place as any.

Did anyone else catch the NYTimes Magazine Section this Sunday? The one with all the great people who died this past year?

Didn't mention Milton Friedman at all.

Maybe there'll be a special issue in a week or so about the Truly Great People who died last year.

Barry

Castro's Legacy is Humanity

Who can answer the following questions?

What country's economy has led Latin America in GDP growth for the last 2 years?
What country was recently certified to have eradicated illiteracy by UNESCO?
What country gave the gift of sight to a hundred thousand people suffering from eye disease around the hemishpere?
What country has trained some 35,000 doctors from other countries free of charge?
What country has some 30,000 of its own doctors serving in the poorest and most remote places in the hemisphere?
What country's educational system was found to produce nearly double the results of the regional average test scores - by UNESCO?
What country has a lower infant mortality rate than the United States?
What country did the President of Haiti just return from successful cancer treatment?
What country was chosen to lead the movement of Non-Aligned nations this year?
What country recently won a record breaking 183-4 vote condemning the 47 year old embargo imposed by the US?
What country showed the world the superiority of socialist sport in the World Baseball Classic?
What "hellhole" has more art galleries per person than anywhere on earth and a homeless population of exactly 0?
In what country do agents of foreign countries, having received (indirect) US Government pay, get called "political prisoners" an "independent librarians" - for playing their role in a "Plan for Transformation?"
What modestly living leader said he would resign if there was one shred of evidence that he stole any money?

Leftside
Teaching English to Cuban refugees will give one an accurate picture of Cuba. They uniformly love their homeland, they say Castro corrected many evils. They say they left because they could not make a decent living.

Gee Whiz leftside
Is there some way to get that info to the Cuban Refugees who cheered and danced in the streets when they thought Castro was on his deathbed?
You should tell they they are all wrong about Castro!

If Cuba is such a paradise now they might want to go back!
OR they might say something nasty if you suggest it!

WHO COMPILES ALL THIS GREAT INFO?

Leftside
Of course things are effing peachy in Cuba, just *ask* the Castro regime! They'd have no reason to.....oh, I don't know....LIE?!?!?


Gently 99,

Gently99, I respect your opinion as someone who talks to Cuban "refugees." It is a far cry from the "escape from political repression" BS we hear peddled to justify the special treatment Cubans receive (automatic path to citizenship, welfare, housing assistance, ect.). The relatively few Cubans that come nowadays

Having been to Cuba I don't deny that it's difficult to afford many things we take for granted here with their Cuban salaries. It's true many get ahead (and many imported goods) by selling things on the side out of their home or trading with others (private enterprise that is tolerated). Food, transport and services are problems that Raul has vowed to tackle.

But it is also true that Cubans are without need. More own their homes than in the US, no one pays more than 10% of their income for rent, utilities are 100% free, as is health and education. Sport, culture and entertainment is world class and costs pennies. Unemployment is 1% (full), jobs are more often rewarding and Cubans live without our consumerism to get by. Most here have no idea of Cuba, many exiles tell themselves lies....

Cubans have no needs, really?
leftside writes:

"But it is also true that Cubans are without need."

This paper states that 80% of the people live in poverty.

MODERN SLAVERY:
LABOR CONDITIONS IN CUBA
Efrén Córdova
Eduardo García Moure
with an introduction by
Juan Carlos Espinosa
ICCAS Occasional Paper Series
April 2000

You know more than these people?


Most commies have only left blood-trail
Even those elected democratically (in three Indian states) or haven't:
(1) Kerala is known to have a crime-rate somewhat less than that of Bihar, but HIGHER than those of neighbouring Tamil Nadu (even during the two reigns of Jayazebel) and Karnataka
(2) Naxalite movements have taken over 100,000 lives over last 30 years mostly in Andhra Pradesh, Chhatisgarh and Jharkhand--but also in Maharashtra and Karnataka
(3) JVP movement in Sri Lanka took over 12,000 lives between 1970 and 1989 (when its two top leaders were "encountered").

Rich, are you aware of the meaning of "utopia"? It is actually simply Greek for "nowhere".

correction
"in three Indian states) or haven't"

I meant to say "in three Indian states) and those who haven't actually been officially in power".

This may be late in the day, but...
I just have to say that I'm not upset by the naive comments that all these delusional leftnuts(less), but I'm rather amused. I'm extremely amused because their stupid comments are exactly the all-point bulletins that are typically displayed and propagandized in communist countries. Just look at the list of that "leftside" cabron and you'll see the basis for communist propaganda. I guess if I hadn't had the horror of living under communism in the past, I'd probably believe a little or a lot of what their propaganda is. But in my book, experience trumps idealism, and personal daily hell experience trumps the below-average IQ view from someone who have "spoken" to "true" Cubans and "have visited" Cuba.

Hey, leftside-nut(less), try living there as a Cuban citizen. Try to experience waiting for the doctor while your kid has meningitis. Try finding food for a week. Try to laugh at your communist leader.

You see, I had to live under communist Vietnam for 3 years, until after my Dad was released from reeducation camp (prison) and my family escaped that hellhole. We were told everyday of the same things on leftside's list. No unemployment, free healthcare, great education, great freedom. Yeah, we were free allright. Free to starve, free to wait in line for government-sold foods, free to wait forever for the doctor, and free to not have to work. Think about it, if there's no competition for anything, and the government rations food, what need would anyone have for a job? See the subtle beauty in that claim that communism has no unemployment? That's like saying there's no murder on Mars.

I didn't realize that all communists were alike until I came to America and had a chance to read countless books on the history of communism. I'm still amazed that every communist state on Earth operate in exact mode.

Here's another term that you all will likely hear from these leftnuts(less) soon. The term is "New Economy." It's basically the commies' way of shipping their citizens to condemned lands faraway and leave them to make their own living. Think of Siberia, the Napalm-soaked jungles in Vietnam, rural China, North Korea. Yeah, it's all the same thing.

Just wait, some useful idiots will come upon this term and they'll think it's like the discovery of life on Jupiter.

Come better yall

Fletch, I was hoping for some actual facts to back your name calling up. Instead all I got was some BS about Cubans working longer hours than Americans - yeah right. The ILO shows US workers at 44 hours/week, Cubans at 41. But this does not take into account the much more generous holidays, sick time and vacation leave Cuban workers get. And Cubans are not "forced" into their fields of study and careers. And I have no doubt that working to help the country and help your fellow man is more rewarding than figuring ways to sell products to people they don't need (maybe not for you lot but most want to help and contribute to society in their work).

Rich, your supposed paper and statistics saying 80% live in poverty is garbage too. I checked it, there is no mthodology except to wildly assert the 80% without access to dollars live in "extreme poverty." But actually today 60% have access ot dollars and everyone else is provided the basics of living, making the traditional poverty calculation moot in Cuba (most countries calcultate poverty based on money available for a make-beleive minimum "food basket.") Cubans get this minimum basket rationed, so technically there is 0 poverty using the method we use. Relative poverty is something else... counting television sets and the like.

Svpallava: Since you mentioned India's experience, I'm compelled to tell readers that in fact, every major social inddicator is far superior in the communist state of Kerala.

Mr Pooh, in Cuba people laugh and joke about their leaders every day. It takes just a few trips to the bar or down the street in Havana to realize this view of a bunch of scared people in Cuba are lies. Most respect their leaders and the revolution, even if they keep their sense of humor about wanting higher pay (wages HAVE been doubled in recent years for most but more is needed). And kids get great health care in Cuba -unlike here in the States where 1/4 are uninsured and those of us with HMOs must wait and pass multiple hoops just to see a doctor. The stats bear out the superiority of universal access and preventitive medicine my friend (at a fration of the cost we pay).

hey I was just reading an old Pravda
from 1958. Apparently everything was awesome in the USSR. There was full employment and everyone interviewed said they were very happy. Also, the government stats did in fact back up what the paper said. So THAT argument is settled.

Leftside, you are appallingly and willfully ignorant or just plain sinister.

BTW- the national pasttime in the USSR was chess. So smarts and education do not equal greatness.

Somebody find Cuban Pete to straighten Leftside out.

one more

Fletch, the 1/4 uninsured claim was about those living here Los Angeles County. I had read it in the paper the day before. Sorry for that mistake. But I stand by the rest. As for health care, it was just announced that Cuba has the lowest infant mortality rate in the hemisphere, behind (socialist) Canada. Cubans also have caught up with US citizens in life expectency. Look it up. Those are the 2 biggest health indicators around... or you could look at heart disease rates, obesity or whatever else you want.

It is not lie that those so-called dissidents in prison were in the pay of USAID and NED (US Govt.) funded organizations. I have read the court records. Go ahead and read them and tell me differently. I think they are online at FIU.

Scarlett, the majority of Russians (56%) lament the disintigration of the Soviet Union. Certainly the USSR was "great" compared to the plundered nation Putin is trying to rebuild after Yeltsin's capitalist disaster.

Garbage
leftside writes:

"Rich, your supposed paper and statistics saying 80% live in poverty is garbage too."

It's not my paper - I didn't write it.

"I checked it, there is no mthodology [sic] except to wildly assert the 80% without access to dollars live in "extreme poverty.""

How did you check it? What are your sources?

"But actually today 60% have access ot [sic] dollars..."

References? Anything other than Cuban sources? How many dollars?

ok, we'll continue

Fletch, you're dealing with someone here who has read all those articles you've cited. I could also pull many positive sentences out of them if I felt a need for anecdotes.

If you are really interested in a (mostly) truthful assessment of the situation in Cuba, I recommend you read Julia Sweig's latest piece in the (right tilting) Foreign Policy Affairs journal: http://www.foreignaffairs.org/20070101faessay86104/julia-e-sweig/fidel-s-final-victory.html

But conclusions reached by the Miami Herald do not count for much (they lose readers every time they slip up and print a truth regarding Cuba). Instead of concluding the obvious, that Cuba has followed the trends of other wealthy countries around the world with lowered birth rates, it says actually the problem is poverty. But why do other poor families in other poor countries have MORE children to help support the family??

On migration, yes about 25,000 leave Cuba a year. Maybe that sounds like a lot, but 20,000 are given exclusive access to US citizenship and assistance. And the number is actually low compared to other regional countries. The Cuban rafters who make the news, actually are less prevalent than Dominicans, Hatians and even Ecuadoreans most years (Coast Guard interdiction stats). They don't make the news though...

I can't say much about your unsubstantiated claim that all Cuban statistics are lies, except I would think somoene would have figured out the scam by now and exposed it with hard data. It is an easy cop out though...

I have already admitted shortages in many goods in Cuba - so has the Cuban press and the Cuban leadership. It is a problem since the fall of the USSR, when the Cuban economy shrank by more than a third (larger than our Great Depression), made worse by the embargo. I won't deny either, that a system that tries to give everyone the same access to goods and services (under market price) will have some shortages under these conditions.

Rich, our course you didn't write that paper. But it was quite a bad choice to cite. The poverty number you cited from it were totally grabbed from thin air. My estimation of 60% having access to dollars (rather than 20%) is from the Philip Peters, director of the Cuba Program at the Lexington Institute, as quoted in the Miami Herald.

anecdotes for fletch

Fletch, I found this honest piece from the Charleston Daily Mail of a newbie's impression of Cuba:

http://www.dailymail.com/story/Life/+/2006091834/Seeing+Cuba:+Life+isn't+easy+--+but+it+isn't+bad/

Here are some passages:

Except for the most basic information, most of the articles and travel books I read were of little use.

The thieves and pickpockets on the famous Malecon that runs along the coast and the bike-riding purse-snatchers on the Prado never materialized.

Likewise, price-gouging cabbies were nowhere to be found. Ditto with scam artists, crooked moneychangers and the assortment of pests that usually descend upon Anglos in Third World countries. And no one we saw appeared to be hungry, malnourished or homeless.

In short, Havana was perhaps the safest, most tranquil and "human" city I've visited.
...
For visitors, Cuba can seem a model of efficiency, albeit a strange one.
...
"I know it may be hard for people to understand," said one man, "but people are taken care of here."

The most illuminating passage comes at the end, comparing the 'paradise' of the Bahamas to Cuba. I felt a similar jarring of perceptions getting off the plane from Havana to Cancun. I never wanted to go back to Mexico...

In the Nassau airport, I asked if there was a way to avoid the $25 cab ride into town. Everyone I spoke to was unfriendly, rude and just plain not helpful. Strange, I thought, we just left a country where people are supposed to be miserable and oppressed and they were, to a person, congenial and helpful. Here, in a country whose stock in trade is "don't worry, be happy," it was completely the opposite.

Once outside the airport, it was easy to see why people were grumpy. It was as if we never left the United States - we saw KFC, McDonald's, Pizza Hut, malls, strip malls, sprawling mansions and characterless hotels.

On one hand, there is an island that has kept its culture, a strong sense of nationalism and a way of life that is simple, though not easy. Then, 200 miles away, capitalism has had its way with another island. And the result isn't pretty.

pt1
You're gonna "win" by sheer word count...

As for sources, just because we're on your turf doesn't mean you can tell me the Miami Herald has more credibility than Foreign Policy to those who know the first thing about the subject of Cuba. Also, interventionism, in its current form, is mostly a right-wing affair and Sweig wrote the piece.

Where are these "facts" of yours on Cuban health care - or anything for that matter? What do Russia's supposedly false stats have to do with Cuba (and could you please cite anyone saying that, let alone that it's WIDELY CONSIDERED Cuba does it). Forgive me if I am not convinced Cuba lies about health stats. And BTW - UNESCO did its own schooling tests in Cuba and found the amazing results.

Let me give you another fact. Gallup polled Havana and Santiago de Cuba (2nd city) a few months ago and 95% agreed that everyone in Cuba has access to quality health care (the highest mark Gallup has recorded). Also Cuba's leaders got above average marks in job satisfaction... (It'd have been higher in the rural areas). (google news)

For an "economic failure," Cuba's GDP is sure rising fast (and wages and benefits even faster) - #1 remember.

Your ideas on why poor people have children are condescending and crude, and ignore the basic point that a county's development is the best factor to predict birth rate - thus providing evidence that Cuban people are well developed and better off.

I never called the Soviet's Cuba assistance sustainable (it was successful for both countries though). Cuba was caught blind like the CIA and Castro has admitted the mistake of over-reliance (it was that more than the lack of "foreign aid" that did Cuba in...

I didn't blame the embargo for the current situation, but not being able to sell goods to or buy often cheaper goods at cheper transport costs is real - and costs Cuba billions (let alone lost tourism and goods simply not available).

Finally, you missed my point on shortages. I was conceding some inefficiencies in aiming for equal distribution of goods. But just because we have full shelves in the US means that everyone has access to them (like in Cuba). Class mobility is now terrible in the US - we've fallen behind "old Europe." You'll have to show me again, where it says 30% of the American poor end up in the top 20% bracket. A new report says the real figure is 4.5% my friend.
http://www.stateofworkingamerica.org/news/SWA06Facts-Income_Mobility-final.pdf

Fletch vs. leftside
Fletch wrote: "I especially enjoyed how you dismissed my questioning of Cuba's governmental statistics (that I backed up with legitimate reasons for that questioning) while you dismissed the articles from the Miami Herald "

Indeed. This in particular caught my eye:

"conclusions reached by the Miami Herald do not count for much (they lose readers every time they slip up and print a truth regarding Cuba)."

Leftside's use of the word "truth" here is a bit precious, considering that what is being debated, in fact, is what is the truth of the matter. So for the sake of considering this bit, let's substitute "something positive regarding Cuba."

That said: Why, exactly, would printing something positive about Cuba lose the Miami Herald readers? Which readers are they supposedly losing? And why?

A related comment:

"many exiles tell themselves lies...."

Why, exactly? What would their motive be? It is easy and obvious to come up with a motive for why Castro and his regime would lie; why would exiles lie about the truth of the situation back in Havana?

Ockham's Razor, people, my god...!!!

on "truth"

The Miami Herald's extremely poor record on covering Cuban affairs is well documented. The hard core of the "exile" population in Miami is one of the most politically connected, well organized and vile groups you can imagine. They have talk radio - and now blogs - galore - to help organize boycotts and generally raise hell. Miami is 60% Cuban and these groups retain much influence. Here are just a few of the more egregious epidosdes:

Most recently, several of the Herald's Spanish language reporters were fired - and then unbelievably rehired- for taking money from the US Government to report on Cuba propoganda shows (and not disclosing it.
http://www.freepress.net/news/17579 In the end, facing boycotts and thousands of cancelled subscriptions, the paper relented and hired back the ethically challenged journalists - and the Publisher stpped down instead. Exiles happy, problem solved.
http://www.cbc.ca/arts/story/2006/10/03/miami-herald.html?ref=rss

Much of their truly terrible, tainted journalism now has been transplanted to their Spanish language publication - El Nuevo Herald. Here is some background on why the Herald created thios competitor:
http://archives.cjr.org/year/00/2/miami.asp

Earlier in the year, the Nuevo Herald got busted for photoshopping a picture supposedly showing a couple Cuban prostitutes right near some oblivious Cuban policement. The headlinewas Prostitutes: Meat of the American Dollar. It was a fake:
http://www.miaminewtimes.com/issues/2006-07-27/news/strouse.html

Investigative Journalist Ann Louis Bardach has studied the issue probably most comprehensively. She concludes: "While the Herald claims that it calls it sown shots, it has been through too many bruises with Jorge Mas Canosa (ex-Cuban American National Foundation boss) and the exile leadership to ever be fully independent." She details the tants, vandalism, blackmailing, bomb and death threats, etc that lead the Inter American Press Association to investigate. Exile groups hire investigators to find dirt of Herald writers. Miami reporters talk about the "witch hunts" and fear of blacklisting that compells them to tread carefully. She details the exodus of many of their best journalists in the 90s after editors killed or altered stories (even less than critical reviews of Gloria Estefan records got axed).

Here is how their coverage of the Elian affair was torn apart by the media watchdog FAIR (Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting):
http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1027&printer_friendly=1

The Herald has printed several flattering pieces of convinted criminals and terrorists (Orlando Bosch and Luis Posada Carriles) - they happened to be Cuban-Americans who liked America but hated everyone else.
http://archives.cjr.org/year/92/3/miami.asp

Here is where they argued on behalf of plane-bomber terrorist mastermind Carriles just a few months ago (that's just a rumor according to them despite FBI and CIA files to the contrary - and his own admnission):
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/editorial/16002080.htm

Here is how their editorial writers confuse neo-liberalism with democracy:
http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=2796

And if you get new ownership and dare start changing the status quo a bit you get armed cartoonists hijacking the office.
http://today.reuters.com/news/articleinvesting.aspx?view=CN&storyID=2006-11-24T184040Z_01_N24365789_RTRIDST_0_CRIME-GUNMAN.XML&rpc=66&type=qcna

On the question of exiles and immigrants telling themselves lies, maybe I could back that up with some psychology journal articles if I had the time... But think about people I know having left their relatives and county, then not doing terribly well in the US (working 2 jobs, renting, etc) or in many cases missing home. You might begin to tell yourself lies because you can't go back and you want desperately to believe you made the right decision for yourself, your family. Telling your kids and friends about the supposed persecution and lack of freedom is clean and easy - and falls into mainstream American thinking - so why complicate the story?
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