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Saturday, February 03, 2007
Jeff Emanuel :: Townhall.com Columnist
"Terrorism Deniers": Like Holocaust Deniers, only, like, way cooler
by Jeff Emanuel
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Since the attacks of September 11, 2001, the portion of the War on Terror which has taken place in public view has been largely prosecuted far away from the United States, a fact which positively demonstrates the war’s success thus far in keeping terrorists away from the American homeland. Unfortunately, the remoteness of known combat operations, combined with the lack of terrorist success in the United States, has had a disappointingly negative effect on Americans’ view of the war, and of the terrorist threat that still faces us – despite the fact that terrorist activity has been taking place, and even more attacks have been publicly thwarted, in countries as geographically (and strategically) close to us as Canada, Spain, and Great Britain.

There have been several high-profile plots. On March 11, 2004, Islamist terrorists conducted a coordinated bombing attack on the commuter rail system in Madrid, Spain, killing 191 people and wounding a further 1,824. On July 7, 2005, four suicide bombers – known as the “Fantastic Four” to Islamists the world over who cheered their actions – struck three London underground trains and a double-decker bus, killing 52 people and injuring 770. In June of last year, seventeen militant Muslims were arrested north of our border after Canadian law enforcement officials learned that they were not only preparing to conduct a string of terror bombings across the country, but were also plotting “to storm Parliament, take hostages and behead the prime minister...if Muslim prisoners were not freed, and if Canada did not pull its 2,300 troops out of Afghanistan.”

In August of 2006, British authorities arrested twenty-five people who were plotting to smuggle liquid explosives aboard airliners bound for the US, with what was thought to be the intention of blowing them up over the Atlantic Ocean. In late October, though, it was revealed that the would-be terrorists’ actual plan was to wait until the passenger-laden aircraft were physically over American cities before detonating them, so as to “maximize the potential loss of life and economic effect.” Terrorism expert and Georgetown University professor Bruce Hoffman said the case “indicated that Islamic extremists remain focused on attacking U.S. cities.”

Unfortunately, there are partisan, professional “Terrorism Deniers” who don’t see it that way – not even close, in fact. To many of the most vocal members of the American Left, the real enemy is not those who would kill us, but the elected President of their country, and the real priority is not fighting terrorists who target them and their families, but rather ridiculing (when not outright attempting to thwart) any actions the Bush administration takes to protect America from future attack.

One prime example of a Terrorism Denier is the Los Angeles Times’s David “Was 9/11 really that bad?” Bell, who wrote that Americans “need to overcome long habit and remind ourselves that not every enemy is in fact a threat to our existence,” and thus abandon our fanciful, farcical “War on Terror.”

Another vocal Denier is Keith Olbermann, former ESPN anchor and current host of MSNBC’s “Countdown.” When not making an inexplicable comparison between Donald Rumsfeld and Neville Chamberlain (while claiming to be the Winston Churchill or the Paul Revere of our generation), Olbermann’s favorite pastime appears to be demanding apologies from the President – who, he has declared, is suffering from “frightening and dangerous delusions” – for innumerable transgressions, including going to war to defeat Islamist terrorism, and endorsing American military tactics which are “all too comparable to the actions of the extremists” (on the rare occasion that he sees fit to acknowledge that there are actually non-American extremists in the world).

“Terrorism is still being sold to the public,” he says, “as if it were a thrilling horror movie and we were the naughty teenagers about to be its victims.”

Lately, Olbermann has added a new trick to his repertoire: reprimanding the President for not showing sufficient proof that terrorist plots (hatched, one would assume, by those same terrorists whose existence he has vehemently denied for years) have actually been stopped over the last five-plus years.

Said Olbermann of the President’s reference to a foiled “al Qaeda plot to plot to fly a hijacked airplane into the tallest building on the West Coast” (the Library tower in Los Angeles), which he disrespectfully described Bush as having “personally revealed so breathlessly a year ago next month”:

It was embarrassing enough that you mistakenly referred to the structure as the “Liberty Tower.” But within hours it was also revealed that authorities in Los Angeles had had no idea you were going to make any of the details – whether serious or fanciful – public.

Who terrorized Southern California that day, Mr. Bush?

That turn of phrase – and twist of logic – would be impressive were it not so inane. Not two sentences later, Olbermann attempted to shove the entire plot under the rug, saying that it was “one of many al-Qaeda operations that had not gotten very far past the conceptual stage” (which apparently means that it was never actually real).

Other arrests on American soil just haven’t been glamorous enough for Olbermann, who, for example, derisively referred to what he called “those pathetic arrests outside Miami last year in which a few men wound up getting charged as terrorists because they couldn't tell the difference between an al-Qaeda operative and an FBI informant,” adding that “their “ringleader” seemed to be much more interested in getting his “terrorist masters” to buy him a new car than in actually terrorizing anybody.”

Shockingly, in his quest to debunk the idea of terrorism’s very existence, Olbermann did, in fact, address the London liquid-bomb plot referenced above. Unsurprisingly, it was for the purpose of ridiculing the actual threat posed by what a London police chief called “an attempt to commit mass murder on an unimaginable scale.” Said Olbermann, as though speaking directly to the President (judging by his habitual pomposity, he may well have truly believed that the President was watching):

Turned out, sir, a few of them actually had gone on the Internets to check out some flight schedules. Turned out, sir, only a few of them actually had the passports needed to even get on the planes.

The plot to which President Bush referred was a plot without bombs. It was a plot without any indication that the essence of the operation – the in-flight mixing of volatile chemicals carried on board in sports drink bottles – was even doable by amateurs or professional chemists.

It sounds to me like Mr. Olbermann is slightly bitter about no longer being able to take a drink with him onto an airplane – especially since he apparently believes there to have been no threat.

Olbermann and his fellow liberal Terrorism Deniers, who often cite the words of “intelligence professionals” to back up their downplaying of the threats that face America, do an amazing job of cherry picking – and generalizing about – those statements that they want to hear.

After all, the statements like that of Mark Mershon, head of the FBI’s New York field office – that “it would make your hair stand up to be in the room to hear that presentation” from MI5 on the liquid-explosives case – just don’t fit the template.

And when the real enemy is the President, and the real goal is promoting dissent at all costs, without regard for the lives that stand to be lost, in part, due to their cavalier public attitudes toward genuine threats, the template matters more than anything – including, and especially, reality.

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About The Author
Jeff Emanuel, a Special Operations military veteran, is a Leadership fellow with the Center for International Trade and Security at the University of Georgia, where he also studies Classics. In addition, he is a contributing editor for conservative web log RedState.com, and is a columnist for the Athens, GA Banner-Herald newspaper.

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terror and holocaust deniers-
probaby the same people in many cases.

Jummuh Carter, for example.

Hey Kid
Congrats on watching Olberman - keep it up, maybe you'll learn something. Everybody you mention as being Terrorism Deniers supports being in Afghanistan. If a democrat president were screwing up the War On Terror as badly as Bush is, there is no doubt in my mind you'd be damning him more loudly than you're praising Bush now. Get a clue - trying to link the failed war in Iraq to terrorism here at home ain't working. Americans see it as a desperate tactic to try to justify what most believe to be a huge mistake.

Ignore the demented bluster coming out of the White House - Bush is negotiating our withdrawal from Iraq as we speak, and will make fools out of all of you, just like Kissinger and Nixon did in Vietnam. And you'll end up hating him far worse than you do any of us. But look at it this way - if he pulls it off and gets us out of there, MAYBE you'll still have a republican party to vote for in 2 years.

Also
It would be easier to take Bush seriously if not for one thing:

Not one sleeper cell arrest in the US since 9/11.


Many of us posting
on Townhall have said over and over. That the only thing that will wake up the Deniers is to have one of our cities nuked. But I'm not so sure even that would do it. Our country has become so divided that I believe individuals, while belonging to the "Group Think" crowd, will not accept reality if it doesn't touch them personally.

For instance, I can visualize folks living in unaffected distant States, blaming America for causing it. Though I'm sure they would have genuine empathy for the thousands killed, it didn't physically touch them. I mean, none of 'their families' were injured or killed. So these same people will scream that the Fed. should have done more to prevent it. Completely denying that they themselves, were part of the group that did everything in their power to interfere with our governments ability to perform as needed. Thus preventing our own defense.

In my opinion, the PC Liberal mindset is doing untold damage to our country. This is especially true with Liberal politicians that actually put our countries welfare aside for their self-serving political power.

"Unfortunately, the remoteness...
...of known combat operations, combined with the lack of terrorist success in the United States, has had a disappointingly negative effect on Americans’ view of the war..."

Yes, you know we had the same problem during WWII too. All that remoteness of combat operations, combined with the lack of enemy success, caused Americans to have a dissapointingly negative view of that war too. With all the apathy and negativity caused by all that remoteness and lack of enemy success, it's a wonder we're not all speaking German now. Maybe if the Iraqis were fighting us in, say, Omaha, or Butte, those negative views would come around a little bit.

Then you got Al Gore
Then you got Al Gore, who thinks thats "global warming" is a bigger threat then global terrorism. As a nation we are going to have a tough time ending terror because these nitwits are trying to change the channel! Global warming??? The world has enough problems to solve then to make up something like global warming.
Goshawk, you are sadly, most likely, correct, that one of our cities will have to be nuked to stop the chatter. Even that may not be enough. Sept 11 didn't work to end the nonsense. By the time they believe we could be too weak to do anything to stop terror from happening in the homeland.

Goshawk writes:
"Completely denying that they themselves, were part of the group that did everything in their power to interfere with our governments ability to perform as needed. Thus preventing our own defense."

Yup. You'd think those libs would have learned by now. Thank God we didn't listen to them during the Red Scare in the 50's, and went ahead and nuked Russia. Of course, the retaliation end of it over here wasn't too pretty - but at least we didn't let those PC Libs interfere with our governments ability to perform as needed, which would have prevented our own defense. Some people are just incapable of learning from history I guess...

Saudi-Sunni-al Qaeda Terrorism
JINSA Report #637
The Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs, January 29, 2007

This is not the time to announce our closeness to the “moderate” Arabs, who really aren’t moderate at all. This is not the time for the U.S. to declare its intention to defend the kingdom, which is funding Sunni Islamic terrorism, including al Qaeda, as well as radical Wahhabi schools and mosques in our own country. This is not the time to reconsider the “Saudi Plan” for “solving the Palestinian-Israeli problem,” much as the Israelis might like to solve it for their own reasons.

http://www.jinsa.org/articles/articles.html/function/view/
categoryid/650/documentid/3672/history/3,2359,650,3672

Bad behaviour warrants a spanking
How the likes of David Bell and Keith Olbermann would howl if another terror attack occurs shortly after one of their hate filled screeds. It is likely that the sleeping zombies would awaken for long enough to call for laws to limit the uncontrolled power of the press. Maybe some legislation that backs up some of the more egregious court rulings. If the press can not police itself, perhaps someone should come in and police them from outside. The press has not always had unlimited and uncontrolled ability to do anything they desire. This is a relatively new thing.

Saudi National Education
Steven Emerson & Walid Phares Featured in New Documentary on Radical Islam
by Andrew Cochran
Counterterrorismblog.org, February 2, 2007

The FOX program also shows shocking excerpts from Islamic children’s cartoon shows that not only glorify violence against America and Israel, but clearly encourage children to take part. The images are graphic and bloody.

“We must not allow these bloodthirsty Zionists to take even one inch of our holy land. If necessary we will die this way,” one cartoon character says before detonating his bomb belt.

“What is really upsetting is the fact that some of these channels say that they are part of the national education system of prominent countries, including countries that are ALLIES TO THE U.S. LIKE EGYPT SAUDI ARABIA," says Walid Phares, a Senior Fellow at the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies.

http://counterterrorismblog.org/2007/02/steven_emerson_walid_phares_fe.php

Saudi-Sunni-al Qaeda Terrorism 2
Iraq’s Choice
by Charles Krauthammer
National Review, February 2, 2007

Tens of thousands of Iraqis have died, the overwhelming majority of them killed by Sunni insurgents, Baathist dead-enders and their al Qaeda allies who carry on the Saddamist pogroms.

Much of their killing — the murder of innocent Shiites in their mosques and markets — is bereft of politics. It is meant to satisfy instead an atavistic hatred of the Shiite heresy. The late al Qaeda leader in Iraq, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, was even chided by headquarters in Afghanistan for his relish in killing Shiites for the sport of it.

...Iraq is their country. We midwifed their freedom. They chose civil war.

http://article.nationalreview.com/
?q=ZTFhZGJiNWZjNzk2Zjg3N2YzODhmZDY0YWI3N2RiMmE=

Bush wacker
And Liberals are expert at distorting history in an attempt to give credibility to their Ivory Tower rose colored view of the world.

They're too busy trying to ban words
The Marching Mommies are far too busy trying to babyproof the world so that their unsupervised brats can roam freely without seeing or hearing anything that Mommy would object to if Mommy were paying attention. The same woman who believes that if her toddler sees a cigarette logo on a race car moving at 200 mph for ore than 1/5 second, he will go straight to Hades, is standing at the security gate at the Airport bawling because she can't take lip gloss on an airplane and somebody's 'hassling' people doing a re-enactment of the terrorists who flew those planes into the Twin Towers.

Americans are far more concerned with someone "dropping the F bomb" as the cutesy-wootsie term used by people who as we said in the south wouldn't say S**t if they had a mouthful, where Junior and Susie might hear it, than with the guy wearing a dynamite vest who wants to drop a REAL bomb on their daycare centre. You almost get the feeling that some of them would be running down the slanted staircases of the sinking Titanic to pound on stateroom doors and scream "ARE YOU SMOKING CIGARETTES IN THERE?"

American Liberaels are a lot like teenagers -- they feel ten feet tall and bulletproof and nothing is ever going to happen to them -- only to other people and who cares about other people? As long as, of course, they're not trying to spoil our fun or Be The Boss Of Us...

I blame Dr. Spock. By convincing parents in the 1950s that It's All About The Child, he has stuck us with three generations of Children who believe that their only job on earth is to disobey all rules even if it kills them, and beg other people to look after them.

"TERRORISM" TRUTH-SEEKERS


We Americans need to stop playing word games! For example, if we apply Webster's definition of "TERRORISM" to the already-forgotten recent Middle East war between Israel and Hezbollah, and use OBJECTIVE MEASUREMENTS, then Israel and not Hezbollah was the biggest terrorist in this tragedy, with 50 to 1 non-combatant deaths for Lebanon vs. Israel (2/3 of Israeli dead were soldiers), and an even greater disparity in terms of infrastructure and the long-term suffering of people. Israel could have fought Hezbollah up close and personal, but instead involved a million innocent Lebanonese in an asymmetrical war using United States-supplied warplanes and smart bombs. The truth of any terror lies not in words or spin, but in its consequences.

Of course, the word terrorism is reserved for our enemies, and not part of our terms of endearment with Israel. However, before we consign what happened to Lebanon and its people to "collateral damage" and it completely fades from our short attention span, perhaps we can find a more appropriate term to describe ravaged Lebanon, such as "collateral devastation." This will ease our conscience, and as the pendulum of action and reaction/cause and effect swings our way, we won't just sit and wonder why these terrible terrorists hate us and want to kill us (they do 9-11, we do Lebanon, and so on). Remember too that Israel’s 1982 bombing and invasion of Lebanon created Hezbollah, and now this most-recent overreaction war has made Hezbollah far more powerful within Lebanon (good judgment and strategy, Israel?).

We human beings think and rationalize in words; for this reason words decide issues. Many people use words imprecisely for advantage and not for truth. The prime example here, anti-Semitism and anti-Israel are not the same thing. If they were the same, then the Israeli government would be infallible, which is the way we in the United States treat this friend. The decades and numbers are against Israel, and stupidly their government has chosen THE ROAD TO CATASTROPHE with their tough-guy terror (seen often, even on American TV). Unfortunately, the United States has to go along too because no one can speak the truth of words and reality. Our one-sided policy in the Middle East is a disaster.



When
When the Moslems finally succeed in detonating suitcase nukes in major US cities due to the influence and power of liberals in our government and media, the liberals will still be in denial and blame it on the Christians and conservatives

Really dumb comment
By JohnCitizen's own definition, he would be a terrorist if he defended himself against anyone who broke into his house and murdered his family members.

To johncitizen
We Americans need to stop playing word games! Yes we do. All of the so called civilian deaths should be labeled as terrorist deaths. You need to quit assuming that we here at TH are idiots. When a Palestinian launches a rocket from within or near a house over the border into Israel in the midst of the civilians, that is terrorism. When Israel fires back at the house with artillery or what ever and kills everybody there that is a response. When the AP and other non-neutral observers count the casualties everyone in or near that house should be counted as terrorists. Not one or two terrorists and a bunch of unrelated “civilians”. You are lucky that I am not in charge of those responses. If I were it wouldn’t just be one house. I would flatten the entire block and everything in it.

libs total denial
I agree with several of you, even if a nuke was
set off in an American city a lot of the nitwit
libs would still not get a clue! They would of course scream to be protected themselves, deny that it was Islamic extremists that did it, and of course blame the President! What morons they are.
As a conservative Democrat i am SO ashamed and
embarresssed by the incompetent airheaded twits
that have taken over the party. The thought of one of them becoming President in 08 and being
in charge of our national defense is absolutely terrifying! Where or where are the Dems with common sense?
This article is wonderful and it's just such a pity that most of the people who ought to read it won't. Unfortunately even if a lot of them DID read it they still wouldn't get it. How depressing. Hey catch this years tv shows 24 and
Jericho for an idea of how bad it would be.

bushwhacer no LD
And if LD were here he would tell us how 9/11 never really happened, the greatest hoax in the history of the world, but would make it almost believable. Pass on through, bushwhacker, you're hopelessly outgunned.

When the next attack comes
Olbermann will rabidly blame President Bush for not doing enough to stop it, or for inviting it. Even if by then, Hillary is in office, it'll be W's retroactive responsibility.
Journalism has come to mean "pushing a point of view". Maybe it always was.

SunThe1
Yes journalists and newspapers have always been biased throughout history, but since the late 60s they have all been biased in one direction. That is what is different now.

Related Item
From Human Events magazine, the top 10 worst journalists from the NY Slimes:

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=18804

well said, JohnCitizen
What we call "terrorism" among Islamics/Arabs is otherwise called "Israel's right to defend itself" on the other side. Nations all over the world condemned what Israel did recently in Lebanon-- except pols in America, who dared not have the temerity to speak out.

Some praise Senator Lieberman for going against most 'Crats in supporting the War in Iraq, but he is simply among the minority of American Jews who believes in the neoCON bellicose approach. Joe Lieberman is an orthodox Jew; his wife's name "Hadassah" is also the name of the "Women's Zionist Organization Of America." His like-minded confreres in the W.H. inner circle engendered this debacle-- Perle, Wolfowitz, Libby, Wormser, and Feith-- before slinking off to leave Dufus Dubya holding the odious bag, their mischief done. Their stated goal was a permanent American presence in Iraq-- THAT would be THEIR idea of "victory."

As for years of quietude from terrorist acts in America, a handful of Islamic nuts have caused us to spend MEGA-billions here to prevent what are infrequent, unlikely attacks period. We reelected Chicken Hawk Cowboy Jorge because Rove played on the threat of terror well, and the leftist 'Crats slit their wrists yet again nominating the Windsurfer, public traitor, Ichabod/Lurch... only they could be so foolish! Worse still, feckless Dubya lets the neoCONS push him to an adventure in the sand while leaving us truly vulnerable here with no border enforcement. Terrorists are MUCH more likely to flood across our non-enforced border or overstay Visa's... both could be substantially hindered with a tamper-proof I.D. card required for ANY NON-citizen to function (to work, get licenses, rent, seek emergency services, attend college) while VISITING America.
Dubya should be impeached for WILLFULLY aiding and abetting the ILLEGAL invasion of America. Known Islamic bad boys are crossing our soft underbelly border posing as Latino invaders.

Tragically, he 9/11 terrorists (NO Iraqi's among them-- or even remotely connected!) gave the neoCONS a predicate for taking out Saddam-- who had NOTHING-- NO THING-- TO DO WITH 9/11. Osama must be laughing himself silly! He ALSO wanted to take out Saddam! Oh what tangled webs we weave when at first we practice to deceive (WOT = taking out Saddam). That wacko conned 19 nuts into committing sucide-- now we have spent upwards of a $ TRILLION in Iraq or on domestic security!

The chest-beaters fathom that anybody who rants against America should be taken out by armed force-- why then not Cuba, Venezuela, North Korea? Do you recall a public outcry 4 years ago to free the Iraqi people? To give them democracy? We have already spent $25,000 per Iraqi citizen to attempt to bestow these wonders upon them-- sound good so far? What will be enough? Most of them want us gone and believe it is just OK to kill our troops. Our leading recipients of foreign aid (> $12 billion a year in perpetuity) in order are Israel, Egypt, and Jordon-- all because of the first. The living standard of the typical Israeli is MUCH better than the norm in the M.E., while many in Africa starve or suffer genocide. Israel has a relatively modern military-- the best we can be made to give/sell to them, and they can steal from us via espionage (by FAR, the most damaging ever to our national security). Hmmm... it is indeed good that we have such a stalwart "ally."

As information, "rhampton7" has made several posts here defending Israel... yesterday, s/he had the integrity to identify him/herself as an Israeli citizen, which necessarily colors that perspective. Similarly, since a large chunk of columnists here are neoCON Pan-Israeli's, it would be a bit helpful and intellectually honest in a fashion if they would simply be forthright about it.

Leftist lens
Leftists see the rest of the world through a strange lens. They see nothing but America's (and Israel's) misbehavior. They IGNORE everything else, but nevertheless consider themselves well informed. So when they find that Muslims are angry at us, their natural response is to blame it on our misbehavior, because that's all they're seeing.

They utterly ignore all kinds of other terrible things that are happening in the world. It is only within the last few months that they began noticing Darfur, even though that has been happening for a few years now. And before Darfur, there was trouble in southern Sudan. Muslims were actually enslaving Christians, but leftists didn't know anything about it, in spite of harping on the evils of our slavery endlessly. Evangelical Christians were the ones who went over there to try to deal with the situation.

Leftists also utterly ignore Muslim terrorism against India or the problems in Thailand. It's like pulling teeth to get them to talk about the murder of Theo van Gogh, to say nothing of the crimes (like rape) committed against native Scandinavians by Muslim immigrants.

To truthserum
When you leftist libtards want to pontificate at length by cut and paste from some lefty site, how about getting your own blog to do it in. No one reads the excessively long screeds and it only wears out our mouse wheels rolling past them. Most sites restrict comments to 250 characters. Why don’t you follow that.

{pwwwaaa-haaa-haaaa-haaa!!}
"learn something" from KO?? If he's not sleeping and snoring loudly atop his desk, he's the kid that sits in the corner seat in the back of the class room, (his big smelly feet propped up on the seat of the poor kid in front of him), picking his nose and eating it ... and that's when he's being productive. The rest of the time he's just shooting spitballs with a lunch room straw, and snorting and swallowing his own loogies.

"learn something" from KO ... Name calling, finger pointing, spitballing, hair-pulling, bullying, whining, talking out of turn (and without raising your hand), farting in class, NEVER having the correct answer, and NOT doing your homework ... Yeah, there's a whole semester right there.

"learn something" from KO .... {pwwwaaa-haaa-haaaa-haaa!!}

Vic
Vic writes: "Yes journalists and newspapers have always been biased throughout history, but since the late 60s they have all been biased in one direction."

Actually, it was in the late 30s/early 40s that they were infiltrated by anti-American Marxists.

pick one

Middle East scholar Daniel Pipes articulated the difference between liberals and conservatives regarding terrorism: Liberals want everyone to "get along." Conservatives want to "defeat a terrible enemy."

Liberals believe the war is a "clash of civilizations," which can be mitigated by multiculturalism. Conservatives believe it is a clash between civilization and a nihilistic barbarism which will not be satisfied by anything less than our complete surrender.

Which worldview would you bet on to keep America safe and free?

Mountain Rose blows again
MR writes:"terror and holocaust deniers-
probaby the same people in many cases.

Jummuh Carter, for example."
Not even close. In Western cultures HD's are typically anti-semitic conservatives, including fundamentalist Christians. Carter, whatever your conserns with him is neither a holocaust denier or this new wingnut phrase "terrorism denier"

wrong again MR

akimbo- fundamentalist Christians?
Are you aware that no group supports Israel more than Evangelical Christians?

Yes there are anti-semetic people who happen to go to Christian Churches, and there have been churches that promote anti-semitism.

Take Jimmuh Carter, self-proclaimed Born-Again Christian, for example; who recently was caught on tape saying "the so-called Holocaust" (must have made his buddys in the Middle East happy to hear that one).

Sounds like Holocaust denial to me.

But anyone who reads his Bible for himself only comes to the conclusion that we are to LOVE the Jewish people, NOT hate them.

"...And I will bless those who bless you, And the one who curses you I will curse. And in you all the families of the earth will be blessed." -Genesis 12:3 (NASB ©1995)

Jimmuh Carter brings his Bible scholarship into doubt when he cozys up to the enemies of Israel, who are sworn to destroy her.

reply to Vic
May I assume that 250 characters is the limit of your attention span? Methinks thou doth protest WAY too much. There was no cutting and pasting; the cogent, perspicacious sagacity is my own. Is the truth that painful?

As for "leftist libtard," I am certainly no leftist-- I worked in the campaigns of Reagan and Daddy Bush. Since 70% now think that this neoCON-spawned war was a mistake, are so many Americans leftists?! Au contraire, I am an America First Paleocon, as the neoCONS call us. I do not believe in foolish folly foreign forays at GREAT expense REALLY for the benefit of a tiny foreign nation. I find it amusing that the cognitively challenged and perspective bereft must resort to ad hominem calumny when verities and facts are too inconvenient. [Is this few enough characters for you to absorb?]

To truthserum
All I read was the title block which supported "Johncitizen" who I judged to be a leftist troll since his post supported terrorists at the expense of Americans and Israelis . You may call yourself a paleocon but when you agree with someone who calls Israel a terrorist you are not.

reply to al
You cite "Middle East Scholar Daniel Pipes" as a credible source in this imbroglio/debate?! He is an unabashed, shameless MILITANT Zionist (rather like Perle, Kagan, Feith, Wolfowitz, Podhoretz, Wormser, Kristol, Prager, May, Libby, et al) who believes that Israel should relentlessly take it to the Islamics, who outnumber them 200:1! Surely you can do better than that! Five of those guys were in the W.H. inner circle and spawned this perpetual, miasmic maelstrom... supported by a deafening din of columnists who conflated America's needs with those of another nation... a pox upon me-- our 51st State.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Pipes

sawdust writes:
"nd if LD were here he would tell us how 9/11 never really happened, the greatest hoax in the history of the world, but would make it almost believable. Pass on through, bushwhacker, you're hopelessly outgunned."

Yup, you guys have cornered the market on reality sure enough. Now if only you had all those retired generals, and more defecting congressional repubs every week, and events on the ground backing you up - gee, you'd feel just as smug and superior as those pesky libs!

Akimbo
You are full of it, and it's NOT knowledge. None of the Christians I know are Holocaust deniers and I know a whole lot more Christians than you do.

The bright side
The bright side (if there is one) of the liberals pathogenic denial of Islamic terrorism is, when the Moslems do explode their suitcase nukes in NYC, DC, LA, etc., that 80% of the victims will be liberals and illegal aliens, and the centers of the liberal falsehood media will be wiped out. Will Rogers was from Oklahoma and not NYC.

vic
I think I have discovered the Leftist plan for victory in Iraq.
Remember how the Liberals want to address terrorists as criminals so they can arrest suicide bombers and try them in Civil Court?
Remember their plan to end crime in our cities?
THAT'S IT!
Midnight Basketball!

To MyOpine
Yeh, that’s the answer. We can send the terrorists to the Ghetto to play basketball at midnight. But then we would be held up to worldwide scorn again for extraordinary rendition and torture. But what would we use for the benchmarks?

Bushwhacker
So, you are privy to all US intelligence briefings and know there has not been one sleeper cell broken up, or, better infiltrated, since 9/11?

If you do have real knowledge from US intelligence, then you just treasonably revealed intelligence. If not, then you are just another left wing blowhard speaking without even a hint of real knowledge on the matter.

bushbeater
Pretty sure that SEVERAL terror cells have been broken up in Michigan and Buffalo...

Of course, I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure I remember seeing pictures of some fat load being hauled off to the hoosegow with his Middle Eastern buddies about two years ago.

Or did I dream that?

Wow, out in force
Two articles now filled with the wannabe neo-Nazis, who lack the nerve to be truly antisemitic, so they just make eliptical remarks about the New York money people and the Israel lobby.

One point for all the "Israel is the real terrorist state types": Of course every PA death is a civilian, while Israel deaths are part civilian and part IDF. Know why? Because PA/Fatah/Al Aqsa/Hammas terrorists don't wear uniforms? When 10 Fatah members get shot down, the PA claims 10 civilians killed by the IDF, and the left media goes along with it.

Sick.

To andrews
H*ll they don't have to get the media to go along with it. The media is using them for reporters. (Note that I left at "left" from the description of media since that would be redundant)

Holocaust deniers
And, by the way, to whoever claimed holocaust deniers are fundamentalist Christians:

1) Most holocaust DENIERS are actually moslems at the moment. The are mroe Islamic deniers than any other type

2) The other group is the Holocaust minimizers and Intifada minimizers. these are lefties and paleocons who start saying "I know the holocaust was bad but..." And then launch into a tirade about Israeli genocide and how Israel squandered good will after WWII to kill Plaestinians, etc. In short, those who wouldn't be too upset to see a mushroom cloud over Tel Aviv.

3) Lastly, you ahve the Neo-Nazis and skinheads. Despite the church of the creator claiming to be Christian, by and large the neo-nazi types do not espouse anything St. Paul would recognize.

Afraid the liberal dream that fundamentalist Christians run around badmouthing Jewish Christ-killers is incorrect.

Taskwazen writes:
"You are full of it, and it's NOT knowledge. None of the Christians I know are Holocaust deniers and I know a whole lot more Christians than you do."

How can someone be so wrong in such a short space, eh Task-wheezin?

I ma delighted that none of the Christians you know are Holocaust deniers, just like NONE of the liberals I know are Holocaust deniers. Proves nothing does it. All you'd need to do is to take a small swamp this is Holocaust denying and you'll find that it is NOT populated with Liberals, but your kind of God-fearing right wing Christian. Remember your garden-variety fundamentalist Christian BELIEVES that Jews are going to hell. Fundies are a fertile playing field for the Holocaust deniers. That's where they go for converts. Glad to hear that you're not one of them. Just goes to show you that wingnuts are not complete idiots, they just play the part on forums such as this.


It's not a Dream, Andrews
It's a nightmare and all too true. Look at who has published books denying the holocaust, not a muslim author in the Bunch.

Too many Christians, aren't ... as is amply demonstrated on these threads on a daily basis.

Maybe a wingut can explain
Two questions:

1) With Boy George's crackerjack Homeland Security operation, how is this much hoped for (by wingnuts) nuclear attack on the US going to happen?

2)WTF does sending US soldiers to die in Iraq have to do with avoiding a nuclear attack on the US?

This has nothing to do with denying terrorism and everything to do with the idiotic hysteria of the right wing in this country. Running around like chickens with their heads cut off. Lots of lip flapping and nothing comprehensible coming out.

Andrews
On the subject of killers;
You see what is going on in Iraq right now.
BY International Law you may kill any enemy combatant who is not wearing a distinctive uniform and keeping his weapons in plain sight.
Unfortunately that describes EVERY Insurgeant.
When we allowed them to surrender our troops were branded as cruel, inhumane torturers.
The Insurgeants were questioned, treated well for awhile and repatriated to their native country.
Words have meaning and consequence.
As a consequence of the words spewing from the mouths of Liberals, hundreds of Insurgeants are being killed every day in Iraq.
Their blood is directly on the hands of the Liberals who criticized our troops for granting mercy. Mercy is no longer PC.

Andrews
I am off to the computer shop.
Have fun with this one.
For a juvenile he is kind of fun to tease.

akimbo
You just repeated your ignorant statements but that's to be expected because today's anti-Christian bigots like you and your Nazi predecessors are all about hate and must avoid truth by repeating your lying mantras.

MyOpine
You remind me of a lesson my father taught. He was a police officer in a large city. During training many people "informally" told him stories of offciers who had shot and injured a suspect, only to be sued. The lesson the police learned from this: Always shoot to kill, as there are fewer lawsuits, if only for the absence of any other witnesses.

Funny how do gooders can create more trouble than they cure.

Akimbo
Where did you get nuclear from out my statements?

I mentioned nuclear attacks on Tel Aviv, but that doesn't fit your comments.

However, to answer:

Saddam wanted nuclear weapons and had pursued them int he past and either was pursuing them or would be soon. Iran is currently pursuing nuclear weapons. Both regimes sure do like terrorists.

So, maybe if we depose those two regimes we do reduce the likelihood a terrorist will get a nuclear bomb.

Was that too complicated for you?

Funny thing
Strangely enough, the word "akimbo" means really stupid in the West African language of Wolof!

Akimbo
And where was the recent holocaust denial conference held? The major Christian city of Tehran! Oh, that's right... not so Christian there.

Ok. Let me make this brief. I am Jewish. I ahve been called "jewboy" by members of the nation of Islam. I have seen Moslem world leaders call for my murder. I have seen no Christians call for my death, nor have I had any Christians call me names.

I HAVE had left wingers call me names I can't reproduce when they found out I was a pro-Israeli jew.

Of course, you will point to the supposedly "Christian" Church of the Creator and the Aryan Brotherhood which it supports. Please, write to them and read their literature. They are as Christian as Hitler was. And no, Hitler was no Christian. Tired of that anti-Christian lie as well.

As I said, I am not a Christian, so I don't have a dog in this fight. Then again, I hate to hear any religion being unfairly maligned, so I do have to say, Christians have proven themselves much less prone to antisemitism than "secular left" and Moslem groups have been in my experience.

Akimbo
Lastly, as far as the antisemitic comments on this site. I find the vast majority come from the left. The few exceptions are usually those who are self-described "paelocons" who heap just as much scorn ont eh religious right as the leftists do.

Again, I don't find much antisemitism among those Christians who actually practice their faith, as opposed to CINOs.

'HOW DARE YOU MR. PRESIDENT'
is, for the last few months anyway, the screeching screed of Keith 'My feet are big enough. My mouth is big enough. And darn it, I'm just smarter than you.' Olbermann.
Listening to the brush offs of the terrorist warnings that have been reported by Olbermann lately really makes me laugh. Living here in New York, I wonder if the rest of the country is aware of the royal hissy fit he threw when the NYPD, The FBI and the Secret Service didn't turn the City of New York upside down when a bag of white powder was delivered to his New York apartment.
Yes, you know what came next. This story was I don't know what number in his 'countdown' but he pontificated on and on and on about how he and maybe three or four other looney liberal columnists were threatened by some people who really belong in mental institutions. How the government was not going after 'homegrown terrorism' which was probably initiated by the White House, Karl Rove and all the other lunatic conspiracies which are being brewed up by cabals of 'radical right wingers' to silence his voice of truth.
This guy's schtick is left wing journalism- if you can call it that- vis a vie Puff/Blo, Daily Kos and The News Blog. You know the ones. The ones that refer to Michael Steele as Stepin Fetchit.Condoleeza Rice as 'kitchen help.' Cindy Sheehan as Joan of Arc and the usual suspects. That is, when he is not engaging in his real calling, his real bread and butter, knocking the s**t out of Bill O'Reilly.
Yes, based on Keith- 'My feet are big enough. My mouth is big enough. And darn it, I'm just smarter than you.' Olbermann's tantrum on his own personal episode, you can be sure that when we are attacked again- and we will be attacked again- him and all of his moonbat companions will be the loudest ones screaming about why the attack was not seen coming and prevented.
Oh,yeah, as far as his 'Good Night and Good Luck' sign off, I'm sure I'm not the only one to notice that he's been using that since that George Clooney movie came out.
Good night, Keith. And good luck.

Andrew
Thanks for the defense. As a Christian I cannot rationally be against God's Chosen People through whom he poured out His grace for all people. A Rabbi once preached at a church I attended in New York. He said that the Catholic Church had been anti-Semitic but that was based on ignorant politics. Then he pointed out that evangelical Christians were the biggest supporters of Jews.

Andrews
Personal experience and opinion is alway welcome. When you write:"Christians have proven themselves much less prone to antisemitism than "secular left" and Moslem groups have been in my experience."

please don't confuse your personal experience with reality. Yes, the LATEST HD conference was in Tehran. No suprise there, but they are about 15 years too late to get on the bandwagon started by Christians attempting to hide their guilt over the lack of action taken while the jews were slaughtered by rewriting history to deny that the slaughter had ever occurred. This view was not started by some Muslim sect, but by mainstream Christians. Christians in modern times, have never shied away for resigning other sects and religions to hellfire and damnation. It was a short walk along a rocky shore from that to Holocaust denial. No matter how much Christians hate to admit it, it is their fallen brethren who have nurtured and maintained Holocaust denial, keeping the lie alive so that now muslim idiots can take up the same banner. As Jews foind out in WW-II, waiting for Christians to come to the aid of Jews is a death sentence. Thankfully, much has changed and HD over all are a small smelly minority, but they are not populated by liberals. Far from it. That Motley Crew, consistes of Christians, Neo-nazis, radical islamicists and a number of good old fashined psychopaths thrown in for good measure. I am sure that there is a liberal HD out there, just as apparaently there are fundie Christians who aren't HD. Nothing surprises me, except the continued idiocy of wingnuts. They never disappoint.

Akimbo
I was going to argue about the US antisemites, but decided against it as there is a better argument:

Worldwide, there are a number of nations which have state-run television and radio stations broadcasting explicitly antisemitic material. Not one is Christian. All are Moslem nations.

So, whatever the case in the US, even if I am wrong, it pales compared to the number of antisemites worldwide who adhere to Islam.


Irrelelvant, as usual Andrews
You write: "So, whatever the case in the US, even if I am wrong, it pales compared to the number of antisemites worldwide who adhere to Islam. "

If you want to talk about antisemites, go ahead. That was not the claim, and you know it. The claim was that Holocaust deniers are overwhelmingly liberal. I see that you have decided to cut and run on that one, as well you should, since it is another wingnut falsehood.

As for there being more islamic antisemites than Christian antisemites, it wouldn't surprise me if that were true, but then that wasn't what the discussion was about. I don't know of any Christian state calling for the anihilation of Israel, and I consider destriying the Jewish state as virulent antisemitism, so it would seem likely that there are a LOT of Islamic antisemites.

Try to stick to the topic next time. It makes it easier to follow the threads.:)


Andrew
(Computer not ready yet)
I am Catholic and have attended 3 Catholic schools. We are taugh that a Rabbi is learned in our religion and if we need guidance and there is no Priest available we should seek council of a Rabbi.
That is the extent of hatred we are taught for Jews.

MyOpine,Andrews
My...What you stated about being able to kill anyone not in uniform or openly carrying a weapon is, I believe, part of the Geneva Conventions...Any Military person overseas had to know that and carry a card...My point about that is that any terrorist isn't even entitled to that as you stated,but why??
Because no ME country has ever signed the Geneva Conventions with the exception of the Shah of Persia, and Persia does not exist anymore.
In regard to due process, the Geneva conventions hold that those countries who have signed the agreements are privy to the consignments written. Once the consignments are violated, then you lose whatever rights the GC would afford you. Therefore it would seem that it does not apply to the terrorists, purported terrorists, insurgents,etc...

Did the enemy(terrorists)offer the same consignments to the US men who they shot, burned, dragged thru the streets, beheaded and hung from bridge overpasses when they cried foul? No, but the left sure gave them the sympathy. Did they feed us with special religious diets, provide us with bibles,(can you say Koran,prayer rugs?) They, in my opinion do not have any rights as a US Citizen has, but the libs are out there screaming they do.
Liberalism is going to kill this Country...
Andrews,also great posts to Akimbo...

Akimbo and stromsdaughter
Akimbo-

You are correct. However, if you take a look at those state sponsored antisemitic stations, you will find holocaust denial is part of the program as well. As the Tehran meeting proved quite well. I know you want to say evil Christians deny the Holocaust, but I still think you point in the wrong direction, and I think recent events prove this.

Stroms daughter-

As you are a moron, I will keep this simple: Please stay quiet while the adults are talking. Since you obviously can't follow what is being said, it is best to just say nothing.

Opie, Opines:
"I am Catholic and have attended 3 Catholic schools. We are taugh that a Rabbi is learned in our religion and if we need guidance and there is no Priest available we should seek council of a Rabbi.
That is the extent of hatred we are taught for Jews."

Who wopuld have thunk it. The Catholic Church, which failed to aid Jews during the holocaust and has apologized for this little oversight on their part, no longer teaches hatred of Jews. I'll bet in Catholic schools there also are no pcitures of Jews with horns coming out of their heads. Who would have thought that the Catholic church would progress so Far. Apparently Opie is impressed.

Well here, let me give you a clue for free, few if any thought that the Catholic Church continued to preach hatred of Jews. That's left to some islamacists and some small Christian sects, but the Catholic church likely abandoned that approach before Opie was born.

Well Mr. Emanuel
You must be doing something right, because judging by the looney leftist venom in the comments, you hit a sore spot.

Allen
While you travel the net with your BUNKO SCAM, be aware;
There is a non partisan site that debunks science scams. http://www.junkscience.com

They have an extensive expose on AGW.
If you are ignorant of the fact that you are selling a HOAX then go check it out.
If you are aware you are spreading a HOAX and expect to find someone here to buy it, LOL.

We Need To Stop Doing Terrorists' Job
On the eve of the big game, and all the talk about who will win, can we digress just a bit as a nation, and still get a word in about our war on terrorism, and who we think will win?

When they wacked us on 9/11 we bristled, spit and sputtered, and jumped up to our feet as one nation.

We counted our dead, wounded, and missing. And a United States of America growled, cursed, and we shook our collective fists, while venting and mourning together.

Then we looked to our President and Congress for the appropriate mode of payback, while relying on the media to keep us up to date with unbiased daily reports.

Eventually we saw our military kicking enemy booty in real time nightly news casts as we ate our suppers. "Shock and Awe". "Yes! Get 'em!" "We are Americas, and we are pissed!"

At sometime, somewhere, later our attention span for the conflict wained, and the big picture become almost like just another sitcom on television to watch, or not to watch. Some also ran issue to follow or ignore at our pleasure. We returned to our own particular polictical flavor, loyalties, or whatever, and began rehashing the usual domestic differences we held against each other on 9/10.

Yes, On 9/11 Amercia was assulted, and in unison jumped to our feet to fight back. But how did we land? On a "war footing"? No. I wonder if half those in this country have even heard the term. It means a nation's people joined in an all out commitment to win in two ways. Militarily, and domestically. With simultaneus efforts at home and abroad. And folks, military might is not our weak suit in the conflict we find ourselves today.

This past week we heard our own Congressional leaders, confirm and send in our new Field Commanding General, with all the "God keep you's", then listen to their indicisive whinning at why "we can't win".

Here on the home front haven't seen rationing of anything! We are too comfortable to be at war. And for this, in the not too far distant future, we are going to pay dearly. Maybe not in total destruction, but more dearly than we would if we'd had our act together as a people committed to caring our end.

As of now, the terrorists know better than to hit us while we so recklessly expose our watered down un-united home front to the world. They merely can wait, and enjoy the show.

We unwittingly are waging psychological warfare on ourselves everyday. And have become damn good at it too. We are discontented, and want to take our ball and go home. Why would any enemy with a grain of sense want to mess this divided nation scenerio up by waging another strike?

Oh, to be sure, we are destined to be hit again. We're becoming too soft, and easy pickin's for any terrorist worth his IED to ignore now.

God help our grandchildren.






Andrews comes full circle
When he writes: "You are correct. However, if you take a look at those state sponsored antisemitic stations, you will find holocaust denial is part of the program as well. As the Tehran meeting proved quite well. I know you want to say evil Christians deny the Holocaust, but I still think you point in the wrong direction, and I think recent events prove this."

If you go back Andrews and actually read my posts you will see that my claim was not that ONLY Christians denied the holocaust,but that the drive behind the HD movement was Christians NOT liberals, as some of your fellow wingnuts claimed. I see from your post that you now have abandoned those dastardly liberals as the source of holocause denial and it is about time. It is an indefensible position, just as would be a position claiming that ALL HDers are Christian, they obviously are not. It is just that there are many more Christian HDers than there are liberal HDers and that was the point of this thread when Mountain Rose claimed the opposite and tarred Jimmy Carter as a holocaust denier, which he demonstrably is NOT.

Glad to have you on board the thinking train. Who knows you might eventually lose your wingnut status and see the light :)


Akimbo
The slander of the Catholics as "not helping the Jews" is quite innaccurate. Many Jews were rescued by various Catholics and Catholic groups during the Seocnd World War. A close friend was smuggled from Rome to Switzerland as part of an underground system run by Catholic clergy. So please, don't fall into the usual liberlal "See, the Concordat proves how evil Catholics are" thing.

Your caricature of Christians contains any number of toher errors, but I think I will stop now. There is no point.

akimbo YOU DO NOT AMUSE ME!
Sick perverts like you who address simple minded posts to individuals simply for the sake of starting a senseless argument do amuse some.
They use their keyboard like the remote control of a toy to stear you this way or that.
Some people merely find you a nuisance.
I find you a waste of thread that discourages other people from posting.
I have watched you annoy and insult people at TH long enough to know you as an arrogatnt, bellicose buffoon with an ego puffed up like a hot air balloon.
Please confine your annoyances to those who regard you as a TOY.

Akimbo
I thought we had progressed beyond our original point.

If you wish I can bring myself full circle again. In so far as the Islamic nations are now the primary proponents of holocaust denial, the Left, who never met a mullah they didn't like, are now forced to tacitly accept holocaust denial for fear of appearing insensitive to their new found best friends in the Islamic world.

This is not new. But it is getting much more visible of late thanks to Iran's president and his habit of publically airing his insane beliefs.

And I would wager that the HDs on the left far outnumber the few nutjobs christians. They simply don't make an vocal a nuisance of themselves.

Stop using 9-11
This Government needs to stop using 9/11 as a reason to invade other countries, we do not need to Iran but yet still George Bush needs it to save his Presidency.

Opie, you DO Amuse me
Isee when you have no argument, you attack. You are TOO funny and predictable. Then what should I expect from a wingnut? Comic relief is the best one can hope for, that is when they are not busy driving this country into war, debt, and evenutally pestillence. :)

Keep us smiling Opie

Andrews: You disappoint me
When you write:"The slander of the Catholics as "not helping the Jews" is quite innaccurate. Many Jews were rescued by various Catholics and Catholic groups during the Seocnd World War. "

So why did the Pope apologize for Cahtolic inaction during WW-II? Did he just make it up?

No one said that there were NO Catholics who assisted Jews, nor that all Christians are anti-semitic, but it was the official Catholic Church that did not intercede on the behalf of Jews who were being sent to concentration camps. That's history that even the Catholic church acknowledges. Are you a Catholic culpability denier?

Hey Opie, I doubt ...
That any snetient being would expect the odd assortment of wingnuts here to "buy it". Well actually wingnuts are trying to 'buy' it by offering $10,000 for studies that deny global climate change.

Nope, few would expect the Opies of the world to actually grasp the science. Sadly, you'll get to reap the consequences of inaction just as will those trying to get us to act.

Why do you sign your posts Little Old Lady?


Akimbo
You do not have any knowledge of that situation at all. You are simply making stupid statements to provoke an argument.
AND I attended Catholic schools long before WW2. I am a WW2 Vet.
When did you attend any religious school?
Where do you get your great absence of knowledge?
Name calling?
I described you to a "T"
You do insult every Conservative at TH.
You are BELLICOSE!
You are an egotistical BUFFOON.
You can't truthfully deny any charge.

Fighting Terrorism
As nice a thing as it is that we have not been attacked in this country since 9/11, I can't help but feel that some to the steps taken by the Bush Administration to this end have been a bit over the line. Example: almost forcing Canada to extradite one of its citizens to the U.S. so that he could become a victim of this countries policy of rendition. Turns out he was innocent and was just awarded $1.5 million from the Candadian govenment. We did not apologize for the mistake. We are now in trouble with the German government for kidnapping one of its citizens off the street and sending him to Afghanistan for 5 months, where he was interrogated and beaten. Turns out he was innocent as well and now the German governement has issued arrest warrents for 13 CIA members. Back in 2005 we did essentially the samething to an Italian citizen. Normally one would think that kidnapping and torture were the tools of terrorist regimes, but it seems that George Bush is not above using it as well. Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't America supposed to be the ones who come riding in wearing the white hats?

Ak Bimbo
Look back to the post I made about AGW.
It gives a link to an extensive expose of AGW.
NOW IF YOU ARE NOT A BALD FACED LIAR I JUST GAVE YOU $10,000.

You peddling that SCAM around here too or just trying to get a rise.


Akimbo
Please name the "Christian Sects" by name that are Holocaust deniers?

Opie denies
that the Pope apologized for Catholic inaction in regard to the holocaust.

Did I get that right Opie, or do you admit to some reality in your wingnut world?

Now I see why you sign your posts LOL :)



Opie, you are such a tool
You challenge: "Look back to the post I made about AGW. It gives a link to an extensive expose of AGW."

I suspect that I have read significantly more of the original research on GW and I also suspect that I can actually understand the research. If you are relying on the sources you linked to resolve this complicated issue, then I can see why you think it a hoax. Of course, if you're wrong, you will be as affected by it as are those trying to do something.

LOL

Sorry Take one on
"Please name the "Christian Sects" by name that are Holocaust deniers?"

Not worth my time. if you are really interested, the information is on the internet for free. Have at it boy.


Ak Bimbo
I doubt you have researched ANYTHING!
You are simply an argumentative bag of hot air.
You insist upon argueing with EVERYONE about EVERYTHING.
From what I see of your posts you KNOW NOTHING!
YOU ARE A PHONEY!

________________________
Correction;
Insulting PHONEY!

Ak Bimbo
Are you going to split that $10,000 with us?
No $10,000?
That makes you a LIAR!

Hey Opie
You're not as much fun as I thought you'd be. I thought you'd be a lot smarter too, but then I forgot, you're a wingnut and wingnuts are a few short of a deck, aren't they.

For your health, I think you might want to ignore my posts. You clearly havenothing of substance to contribute to the conversation and you're likely to wear out your caps lock key, LOL.

Lynne understands
When she says: "it needs to be said again and again."

That's right, How else can the wingnuts terrorize the populace to keep them in a constant state of fear. The likliehood that a suticase nuke will be detonated in the US is only slightly less than the probability that we'll find WMDs in Iraq or that Saddam will come back from the dead, yet the wingnuts will continue to shriek about a nuclear bomb going off in the US over and and over again.

you wingnuts must not have much confidence in Bush's vaunted, "Good Job Brownie" Homeland security. Don't you trust the big government that the Republicans have created?

LOL

Ak Bimbo
I really feel warmed by your concern for my CAPS.
If you are not too senile to remember, YOU are the one who addressed me, using snide remarks as a personal insult on an off topic issue.
Please dry your teers.

If you do not want others to insult you it might be a good idea for you to tone down your own personal insults.

From watching your day to day posts I think name calling is the limit of your intellect.
You don't seem to know anything about any of the topics here at TH.

To Bafundi..
A clear and concise analysis of the situation!

If one can look at all the comments being posted here as cross-section of America. It becomes obvious where the division is originating. While most Conservatives are concerned with America's well being and protecting our loved ones from further attack. Liberals are concerned with attacking Conservatives. As they demonstrate throughout this thread. The Liberals have no desire whatever to work with Conservatives.For the benefit of America.

Ak Bimbo
See what I mean?
There you go again insulting Lynne.

AkBimbo you are SICK!
You are some kind of a PERVERT who gets off on insulting people.
You are just like some nut case standing on a corner shouting insults to people driving bye.
You belong some place where they can care for your mental condition.
Are you off your meds?
Is that what is wrong?

Lynne
Notice Jane (the Traitor) Fonda's reaction to the mass murder that the communists did in Southeast Asia: it's was all America's fault. Liberals do indeed call evil(Islam) good and good(America) evil.

Lynne Lincoln was not fooling!
We did not have radio & TV at the time.
Lincoln jailed some newspaper editors and deported a Senator to Canada.

He had a woman shot for taking a note through the lines. Wonder what he would have to say about The New York Times?

Donaldd

There are certain writers that have a slant or view that they wish to get across when they write.

Nafeed Ahmed is one of them.

My conclusion is drawn from the fact he equates the WOT has resulted because of economic and political intestests in Europe and the United States.

This is laughable on its face. Mere cursory examination of the attacks against this country from Bierut to the World Trade Towers were hardly instigated by anyone other than barbarians wishing to kill and destroy.

Ahmed is a Pakistanian. They are as much responsible for the terror in the world as anyone else. I would hardly call him a credible source of information.

Also notice
Lynne, also notice Akimbo's denial of WNDs in Iraq. Funny thing is that about a year ago the New York Times had a story about US troops attacking a building where the Moslem terrorists were making nerve gas. Either the factory, chemicals, and equipment were already there or the Moslem terrorists snuck them in right under the eyes of US troops. Strangely enough the headline did not proclaim: Saddam's WMDs Found! The liberals at the paper were obviously too dim to figure out that the story contradicted their NO WMDs editorial policy or they would have spiked the story. (Which makes one wonder how many proof of WMD stories they have chosen not to print.)

akimbo wrote:
"Sorry Take one on
"Please name the "Christian Sects" by name that are Holocaust deniers?"
Not worth my time. if you are really interested, the information is on the internet for free. Have at it boy."

Just goes to show that akimbo has no data to back up his hate speech against Christians. It also demonstrates that akimbo=really stupid.



Allen
I gave you the benefit of the doubt.
I thought you might just be some poor stupid dup that does not know the truth.
I see you do know the truth and are a liar and scam artist tryine to sell a hoax.
Sorry, NO SALE!
Take it back over to DailyKos.
They have a lot of chumps over there.
You are a good example!

Newspeak
The news media and the politician have finally made Orwell's 1984 and complete way of life. In the past it was only Totolatarian states that fit the bill but since the attack on 9/11 the major news networks and the politicians have been spinning fairy tales about the threat we are facing because of their fear to name Islamic Fundamentalism as the reason for all the terrorism. The attacks are taken from the pages of the Koran, "kill the infidel wherever you find him..." and yet we hear that Islam is the religion of peace and there are only a handful of extremists who have hijacked the religion for their warped version of it. If this were true the vast majority would want to take back their religion and give it back its good name but they do nothing either out of fear or because they secretly admire and support the terrorists. Both reasons are likely but the end result is that the ones who represent Islam through their actions are the Fundamentalists and we hear little from the so-called peaceful Muslims who only come out in great numbers and become vocal when there are cartoons of Mohammed to protest. Isn't the killing of 53 people in London or 200 some people in Bali a better reason to protest than cartoons? Apparently not so. And also the vast majority of Muslims believe the lies about Irael being a terrorist state and Jews trying to take over the world. How can a billion people blame a tiny minority of 14 million for the problems in the world. It is because they are taught to hate Jews, not just Zionism but Jews, from birth to death in their Madrass schools, in their media, and by their leaders. So Muslims live in a world of lies and irreality and so do Westerners. Very few people search for the truth and fewer carry a lantern around looking for an honest man.

Observation

There are evidently a lot of students of Saul Alinsky on this website. Some of his former students were the Clintons and Pelosi.

He taught: "Ridicule is man's (and women's) potent weapon. It is almost impossible to counterattack ridicule. Also, it infuriates the opposition who react to your advantage."

It appears there a few on this thread that are in the process of getting in their post-graduate work by going on TH, finding a suitable posting and having a go at it.

I wonder it they then take their postings to class for evaluation and then get their grades. I can't imagine any other reasons for the slander that has been appearing here. Ugh!!!

John citizen Your a Boob
"Objective Mesurements"?
Thats your problem right there, you are basing your judgment of who's right or wrong based on a statistical game. Rather then who's at fault for starting the war in the first place.

Let me ask you John citizen, based on your "objective mesurments" what side of the World War 2 conflict was the Bad Guys.
given that German and Japanese casualties far exceded Amaerican casualties?

Israel has been bending over backwards trying to foment peace by making sevreal terretorial withdrawls and all they have ever gotten have been more attacks.

Maybe you think the best and moraly right way to fight a war is to play a tit for tat game with your enemy. A game the enemy would not engage in themselves if only they were militarily superiour. Fortunately thats not how we faught World War 2 And we ended up with Victory!


Sonny You are being judgemental
Everything is not in plain sight.
This has been brewing for weeks.

Scoot your chair closer so you can rest your elbows on the table and tell us what you think about the WOT.

When will the public shaming begin ?
Only when we are ready,as a nation, to actually defeat these seditionists in our midst, will the war on islamo-nazi-terrorism finally turn in favor of the side of good.

KO and the cowards who act as he talks, have the blood of Americans and countless innocents on their hands for their acts of sedition. There are no equivalent to these traitors in any successful American war effort that weren't immediately silenced and until we have the courage to do so,the side of good and liberty will continue to lose ground in this fight for freedom.

Fellow patriots,I bid you,shame these haters of God given freedom that seek to bow before the very evil that seeks to crush us with a hearty, "FU! We will do what we must to defend the innocent and the good, from the killers of liberty. And that includes identifying you for the ravenous traitors that you are!"

Go to hell leftists.Lovers of freedom everywhere grow weary of your destructive lies designed to break the will of good people.

If there truly is no threat and George Bush is the enemy, please just go and make a pilgrimage to the poor misunderstood "freedom fighters",as the host of "Softball" and Cindy Shehates has described them,and make them understand that the American people are on their side, as you are want to claim constantly, and let us know how that goes for you.

Everyone of common sense knows,unlike these same folks who demanded disarmement in the face of the "Evil Empire",that there is only one side that needs to stop their aggression to make this all end and it aint us.

You liars! You should be forced to face the results of your hateful anti-freedom speak.It,those results, are the constant suffering of victims like the 100 or so who died today at the hands of those who seek to affect the victory of your sick sentiments.

I suspect you would be driven insane if that reality were to penetrate your hateful brains.

Strawman Argument
I read liberal blogs and I listen to liberal talk radio. I do not recall EVER hearing or reading the words of a single commentator who does not take terrorism seriously and recognize that we continue to be subjected to serious threats. I have, however, seen and read MANY comments about the way the Bush administration uses that genuine threat to further some of its principal political goals: a neo-conservative approach to foreign policy and a "unitary executive" theory of the presidency. In other words, keep us "afraid, very afraid" all the time, and use the terrorist threat to justify such manifestly un-American and unconstitutional practices as "cruel and unusual" punishment, invasion of privacy without warrants, and imprisonment without charges and without trial. (And all this while failing to implement needed protections of mass transit, ship and airline cargo holds, nucear plants, and chemical facilities!)

In general, liberals are much more clear-eyed about the adminstration agenda than conservatives, who tend to view any criticism of the president's approach to managing the terrorist threat as evidence of a failure of will, a denial of the terrorist danger, etc. Liberals know there's a major terrorist threat, all right, and they want it addressed. (Witness who it was who FINALLY saw to it that full recommendations of the 9-11 commission were implemented.) But they also recognize the serious dangers to our constitutional repubic inherent in Bush and Cheney's fascist tendencies.

Takes-one-on writes more fantasy
our good friend Takes one on writes (in all seriousness I believe):"Also notice
Lynne, also notice Akimbo's denial of WNDs in Iraq. Funny thing is that about a year ago the New York Times had a story about US troops attacking a building where the Moslem terrorists were making nerve gas. Either the factory, chemicals, and equipment were already there or the Moslem terrorists snuck them in right under the eyes of US troops."

Or, and this is reality, Takes-one-on, you just posted another wingnut fantasy. Post a link, kiddo. You wouldn't have a clue if it was handed to you on a platter.

This is a most intstructive place. We have Takes-one-on, kissying up to Lynne in their common shared wingnut fantasy. Then we have Opie, who so far has mananged to contribute not a whit of content, but the figurative spittle dribbling down his chin is a sight to behold. Of the four horsemen of wingnuttery, only Andrews appears to actually have a whit of sense about him, but then just when he seems to actually be sentient, he dives off into wingnut land once again.

My favorite post of the day though is from AWShucks, who wrote that Gem about wingnuts being first and foremost concerned about the safety of the country and their loved ones, whereas liberals were what?, only concerned with power. Oh my gosh, that was good for more than just a chuckle. Didn't quite rate a monitor wipe to clean it off after laughing uproariously, but it was a good 'un. Wingnuts are concerned about the country's welfare!!!! Who ever said that has a deliciously ironic sense of humor. My guess is that the poster is not actually a card-carrying wingnut, but someone posing to make the wingnuts look bad (as if it was possible to make them look worse than they make themselves look). I guess we'll have to wait and see if the poster was serious.

In the meantime, I suspect that I can expect to be called a PERVERT by mr ALL CAPS, Opie.

Oh yeah and I just LOVED Takes-one-on and Lie-knee's almost closet racism about my monikker. True colors as the say.

Ta ta for now.

LOL

johninoreGone - After Sissy Softys Win
Instant Peace,Enabling Suicide

To quote one of your heroes who doesn't equivocate the killers with US (she does just the opposite actually),Rosie O'Dumbell,"Delusional !"

Lynne

Alinsky and Baldwin were contemporaries. I don't know if they associated with each other or not, but they were two peas from the same pod. They can only be described as radicals.

JOHNINOREGON: What you are really saying is that the Conservative and the Liberal have a different world view which causes the same event to be viewed two different ways.

The debate is regarding those views. Characterizing it in colorful language is demeaning and weakens one's argument.

We are at war which necessitates actions to be taken which are not normally taken during peace time. When the WOT situation is resolved, isn't that time enough to point fingers? The drawing of conclusions at this stage of the "game" undermines the administration, the troops, and the will of the American people. Why not let the hand play itself out? The wisdom of taking the action we have will proven itself out one way or another.

We are in this thing together. Some want us to win, others want a different solution. We can't undo what has already been done. The last chapter hasn't been written yet. Give it a chance. What I understand about the Muslims is that they don't have a very high value of life and there are a whole lot more of them than there are of us. If we are divided nationally in how to deal with them, we merely give them more opportunity to exert themselves upon us. Blame and accusations are not going to solve anything.


Sissy Softys [sic]
2spothipshot writes:
johninoreGone - After Sissy Softys Win
Instant Peace,Enabling Suicide
To quote one of your heroes who doesn't equivocate the killers with US (she does just the opposite actually),Rosie O'Dumbell,"Delusional !"

Interesting how, after I made a serious effort to challenge a strawman argument about the liberal attitude toward terrorism, you felt moved to respond with more stereotypes and an allusion to a show-business figure who just must be one of my heroes if I am a liberal.

I don't know, and couldn't care less, what Rosie O'Donnell or any other celebrity thinks about political issues unless he or she has made a clear effort to become a serious. well-informed citizen activist. As far, as I am aware, Rosie isn't in that tiny band.

akimbo

Are you a student of Saul Alinsky's also?

bushwacker
I'm tired of hearing how Bush "screwed up" the war on terror. This is not a James Bond movie, Al Qaeda is not S.P.E.C.T.R.E.

Are you ready and willing for U.S. forces to kill 10 million moslems in the middle east? Then shut the heck up. Because the ONLY aspect in which Bush has "screwed up" is that he attempted to give democracy to Iraq, because we all know that traitors like you would have screamed bloody murder against a general war against Islam, *as is needed* to succeed. You won't let us torture information out of the terrorists, you won't let us devastate those who are harboring them, you won't even admit that this is more than just a police action against a criminal gang. You have no solution (well, sure, you do, but it's a solution the U.S.'s enemies would *love*.)

This is not a job for police, politicians, or kindergarten teachers.

In WWII, we didn't paratroop into Berlin, we didn't paratroop into Tokyo. One of the first things we did was invade North Africa. Tunisia had not done anything to us, they were not a threat, so by your reasoning, we should have paratrooped into Berlin, or better, just attacked Japan itself. And we were humiliated in our first engagements in N Africa. But the press was not traitorous, and so that humilation was not played up while our subsequent successes were played down in the press.

And one last thing, bushwhacker;

Kissenger and Nixon didn't betray us in Viet Nam.... THE COMMUNIST CONTROLLED U.S. CONGRESS DID. When they cut the funding for the ARVN. When they would not support returning to Viet Nam to stave off the invasion by TWO NORTH VIET NAMESE ARMY DIVISIONS employing more troops than the Normandy invasion, and more supply trucks than Patton's redball express.

Face it, you're nothing but a traitorous parasite.

ABimbo the pervert is back
Happy now?
As to your argument about context;
When you insulted me out of a clear blue sky you were not in context. When you insulted Lynne without provocation you were addressing a different topic that no one had mentioned here today.
You raise a subject and argue with yourself like you are playing with yourself on the keyboard, sort of verbally masturbating.
You don't need to address something like that to anyone here, just go over in the corner and do it.

There must be a name for this compulsion you have for insulting people.
It certainly is a mental disorder of some sort.
FORGOT TO PUT THE CAPS FOR YOU. THIS ENOUGH?

Pointing fingers
Sonny writes: "We are at war which necessitates actions to be taken which are not normally taken during peace time. When the WOT situation is resolved, isn't that time enough to point fingers?"

No. When it comes to erosion of constitutional guarantees, the time to "point fingers" is NOW. If we wait until all terrorist threats are resolved (a time that may never come, by the way) we may have no freedom of speech left to point fingers with.

As we have demonstrated in past wars (although imperfectly, I admit), is that we can fight serious threats without becoming the very kind of lawless, barbaric people who pose those threats. If we fall into that trap, we sacrifice our status as a beacon to the world and we make hollow the claim that we are defending American values.

What WAR on terrorism?

There is no war on terrorism, we, the left and SPs in particular are shooting ourselve into losing the so-called war. We in the west and that included the USA are not procreating sufficiently and will therefore soon get "voted" out of office by our muslim "brothers" without them firing another shot - except for their fun of killing. Mark Steyn hit the nail on the head. Democracy, once they are in the majority will do us in via demographics. It is almost that simple. Read his book.

To slow this scenario down we might be able to change the friction on this slippery slope by the following "rules" that I've posted before:

If I were King

1. No lawyer would be allowed to run for any political office.
2. No lawyer could be appointed as a judge.
3. A judge who lets a criminal off on a technicality or other scheme must receive the same sentence that the criminal gets if he is caught and tried again.
4. The word “alleged” cannot be used when there is video or confession of a crime.
5. Before a new law is passed it must be accompanied by the repeal of 10 laws.
6. No child can graduate without passing a test on the Constitution.
7. No college can issue a degree of any sort without passing that same test.
8. The Gettysburg Address must be memorized by any office holder, city thru federal.
9. Every citizen must recite the Ten Commandments in English before voting.
These tenets can only be added to, not changed or deleted.

Ed

Wrong
We never have demonstrated in past wars that we can fight serious threats w/o becoming the very kind of lawless barbaric people who pose those threats. We beat the Japs by becoming WORSE than the Japs. We just didn't do it to anyone BUT the Japs. We regarded enemies as enemies and treated them appropriately, we didn't treat them like we would treat allies or citizens. Need I say what we had to do to civilize the N American continent? We out savaged the Native American "savages". We won, and the world is better off for it.

SCREW our status as a beacon to the world. That's the problem with you on the left; you're so concerned about what people think of us, with how noble and wonderful we must be, you're not willing to defend and/or promote us. By all appearances, you'd rather that the nation cease to exist rather than fall off that ridiculous pedistal you pretend to put us on.

The world cares for our beacon status even less than I do. Most would just as soon see us fall, and have felt that way for over 50 years.


johninoregon

Oh. Now I understand why the anti-war protestors wanted us out of Viet Nam.

Why didn't you say that the WOT is a police action and leave it up to the FBI to bring criminal charges against Osama? or the Saudis?

That way we could leave all the Constitution rights for not only our country's citizens in place but those of our enemies as well. We could have the ACLU lawyers defending the terrorists rights. After all, we certainly wouldn't their values to conflict with ours.

Doc
I would add;

Officeholders cannot run for re-election for the same level of office.

Officeholders cannot hold office for more than one term, and may only serve in the gov't in any capacity for up to 12 years.

Anyone, having once held an office, may not do business with any gov't entity, foreign or domestic.
Any attempt to thwart this by using corporate or charitable proxies is punishable by a mandatory death sentence

Lynne
Notice akimbo the stupid's last post. No substance and sophomoric attempts at personal attacks. I've notice the same tendency from my liberal students. They think that, for example, saying Pat Robertson is an extremist makes a case-closed argument. They have a very hard time understanding that they have to support their claims with specific evidence so I am not suprised by akimbo's inability to mount a cogent argument.

bushwhacker redux
Bushwhacker, if we hadn't listened to the left-wing idiot in the White House in 1945, there wouldn't have been a Soviet Union to murder tens of millions of innocent people over the next half-century.

We would not have held up and let the Russians take Berlin. We would not have partitioned Berlin or included the Soviets in any post-war reconstruction.
W/o that idiot haberdasher in the White House, we might well have fired Eisenhower, placed Patton in charge of all our European forces, armed the Germans, and knocked the snot out of a bigger monster than Nazi Germany. And when the smoke cleared, we'd have been sitting on a global hegemony. In August of 1945 we had the most powerful military machine on the globe, the industrial might to power it, and the only nuclear weapons in existence. We could have assumed our proper role in ruling the world, and saved it from the 50 years of suffering and misery as the incompetent communists (in east and west) tried to bend the world to fit their demented image.

Before you can learn FROM history, Bushwhacker, you need to LEARN some history.

King Doc
Add to your list;
Sort through all laws, remove those that conflict or are repititious and transcribe the remainder into plain English that anyone can understand.

What did Israel do?
"Nations all over the world condemned what Israel did recently in Lebanon-- except pols in America, who dared not have the temerity to speak out. "

Israel had 3 (or was it 2?) soldiers kidnapped by terrorists who were given sanctuary in Lebanon. Israel was justified.

And, predictably, Israel pulled its punch. Had I been ruler of Israel, Lebanon would either have coughed up the soldiers unhurt, or would have become known as, "Northern Suburbs of Israel".

Funny, the Israelis go to the middle east and build a modern, western society, and leftists try to equate them with desert trash that never build, but seem infinitely capable of destroying what others build. Not so funny, I guess.

Lynne
"Abe rocked! No wonder we won the Civil War!"

Correction; the only civil war in the region between Mexico and Canada has been the civil war waging in the U.S. over the past 50 years. And it is ongoing...

"WE" didn't win the Confederate War; the lousy leftists did. And the Union won that war because it had a firm industrial base while the Confederacy was agrarian in nature. The Confederacy had better soldiers, but worse supply. If you look at the history of warfare, you'll find that most wars were won or lost on supply and logistics.

Akimbo
What did sending boys to die in Tunisia have to do with defeating Japan?

jdw
You are so on target with your analysis of Roosevelt, Truman, and Patton! Remember that Truman fired MacArthur when he wanted to rightfully nuke China so millions of Koreans have been starved, tortured, and murdered while Kim Il-Jong lives in luxury with hundreds of concubines.

jdw it is worse than you think.
Truman just threw in the towel on the Chinese revolution.
Russia bought that revolution.
It was a poverty situation you would need to see to believe.
The soldiers had no political knowledge. They did not know or care about politics. They fought for pay.
The Communists did not win any big battles they simply raised the soldiers pay by 2 cents per month to a total of 13 cents and a brothel token.
Most of the Nationalist soldiers diserted and joined the Communist Army.
Truman defunded Chaing instead of helping him up the anti.
With a Nationalist China as an Ally there would have been no Vietnam war, no Korean war, no Cold war and with China backing America today there would most certainly be peace on Earth forever!
It would have cost Truman, (USA), about $3 million to pull it off.
That is the real tragedy!

johnnieoregon
Where were you, April 19, 1993?

You whine about erosion of Constitutional guarantees, worry about the *First Amendment* right of free speech...

What were you doing to protect the Branch Davidians rights to speech and religious expression in April of 1993? What did you do to prevent their massacre? Did David Koresh ram an airliner into a skyscraper? Blow up an American embassy? Hull a U.S. warship? Fire missiles at U.S. aircraft? Koresh at least had the argument that he was a U.S. citizen and therefore entitled to such rights.

When you lefists are willing to be as hard on Islamic fundamentalists as you are on Christian fundamentalists, then let's talk about Constitutional guarantees (for Americans).

Linny, We marked your words
"I'm just waiting for them to find all the WMD's buried in the sand in Syria. Mark my words!"

Wingnut hysteria knows no bounds does it. Proven wrong time and again, they just move the playing field.

The wingnuts and neocons have been consistently completely wrong. The only thing that surprised me about Boy George's disaster in Iraq and the wingnuts circle jerk in support of boy George was how incredibly unprepared and incompetent was the whole crew.

Nope, Linny, I am completely unsurprised that you expect to that wmd's will be found in Syria, spirited out of Iraq in 50 semi-trailers under the watchful eye of our military that supposedly could track a single mobile weapons lab all over hell and gone. The idiocy of the wingnuts is amply ilustrated in your post. Of course you expect to find WMDs in Syria, just like you continue to believe in Santa Claus, the tooth fairy and the easter bunny. You live in a fantasy land. Unfortunately, your fantsies have sent 3100 Americans to their deaths and now you are all hot and bothered to send another 21,500 Americans into the meat grinder that Byo George created out of the same level of acumen that you demonstrate in your posts.

Opie got one thing right, wingnuts are IDIOTS, but they are dangerous idiots cause they don't mind sending other people's husbands, wifes and offpsring to die in Iraq to prop up Boy George and his maniacal mission to get the monkey of failure off his back. Sadly, wingnuts could care less how many Americans die in this debacle and that's the real tragedy of the right wing in this country.


akimbo
You keep repeating yourself. You've already demonstrated your inability to make a rational argument. You should really get some therapy and maybe, just maybe, you might get better. In the mean time, we appreciate your unintended humor.

Thanks I appreciate that
Takes-one-on writes: "In the mean time, we appreciate your unintended humor."

Those who serve are delighted when the masters deign to acknowledge their gifts.

LOL

ABimbo
You did it again.
If you want to play with yourself just go someplace and do it. You don't need to call anyone's attention to your verbal masturbation.

Your sensless vitriolic attacks on people are what prove you are quite insane.

What a waste.
It is too bad the guys who like to play with simple toys like you are not here tonight.
This is not really my thing.
You are nothing but a nuisance to me.

Ooh Kimberly, that's gonna sting
You're completely right and isn't it interesting that the "liberal media" that the wingnuts love to rail against didn't notice that NOT a single one of the plots that Bush claimed his administration foiled was actually a plot. It must have been that when Boy George unleashes such an incredibly incompetent SOTU address that it easy from even the most egregious errors and lies to get a bye. When he mentioned these plots that he had foiled (with his Captain America magic decoder ring most likely) I expected to see this all laid out the next day with the liberal media jumping all over his lies and exaggerations. What? Silence. No one touched it. The right left is alone because they knew it was all false, the left media left it alone because ... guess what, because there is almost no left media in this country. We have basically three kinds of media: right, Far right, and wingnut la la land right. Left wing media is miniscule and totally powerless.

Thanks for reminding us just how much Boy George can still get away with.


Ow Opie, that hurts
You sting me with you vorpal sword, the snicker snack the fruminous bandsersnatch. How can i survive whne you write: "You did it again.
If you want to play with yourself just go someplace and do it. You don't need to call anyone's attention to your verbal masturbation.

Your sensless vitriolic attacks on people are what prove you are quite insane.

What a waste.
It is too bad the guys who like to play with simple toys like you are not here tonight.
This is not really my thing.
You are nothing but a nuisance to me."

So touching, so articulate. You used almost your whole vocabulary in a single post. I am truly impressed that no matter how many times I tell you to ignore me, you can't. Is it budding love? Are you lonely in your little garret, slavering over the latest photo of Sean Hannity, or maybe you've got a particularly salacious photo of Rush Limbaugh's commodious gut. Who knows what turns on a LOL like you, who knows?

You concern about my mental health is touching, but given that you are a wingnut, how would you know sanity if you saw it. You, along with your cohort of wingnuts willingly supported the mass execution of 3,100 Americans and still you call for more. When will you have enough of the senseless slaughter that Boy George has unleashed in Iraq. When will you finally awaken from your slumber and call for an end to this debacle that you supported with glee and enthusiasm.

You will live out your last days with the blood of wonderful Americans on your hands. You participated in sending them to their pointless deaths and sadly you feel not a moments remorse. History will reflect the horror that you and your fellow wingnuts unleashed on the world.

Your concern for me is touching, but misplaced. Look in the mirror Opie. There's where your concern sould lie.

BTW, I have been hearing about these mythical wingnuts who slay liberals with a single post. I have yet to see one. The last one who promised to eat me for breakfast (figuratively, I hope) when challenged in best Boy George fashion to "bring it on" left the playing field never to be heard from again. I am sure that there is some silver-tongued wingnut out there who can save your bacon. Heaven knows you don't have the skilles to get the job done.

You are funny though and I think we should keep you around for enttertainment.

LOL

libtard Trolls....
Got to give you credit Jeff, you sure know how to bring out the liberal (Marxist/Nazi/Pervert) trolls out today...

ABimbo
There you go again.
You can't seem to make a sane articulate post.
HATE BUSH HATE BUSH is the limit of your intellect.

Your brain is completely out of focus.
You rant away on various non topics.
You really do need help.

akimbo
It's only a gift when you can do it intentionally. I intentionally tripped and fell in class the other day to make a rhetorical point. You continually and unintentionally trip and fall and are unaware of the fact.

Lynne
I watched part of it and recorded the rest.
Brainwashing and indoctrinating children is what bothers me.
During the Iran/Iraq war, Iran used waves of children, some only armed with sticks, to charge Iraqi positions and force them to use up all their munitions killing children.
Can you immagine what MSM would have to say if our troops were forced to kill mobs of children?
They are dangerous.
I saw a mob of children attack a man in China and stomp his face apart to get the fillings in his teeth.

anti-socialist...
...it appears, for some reason, to be a good day for that.

akimbo

You have obviously have had a lot of practice in verbal sparring. Is it something that comes naturally for you or was it acquired through the educational system you attended?

The reason I am bringing it up is because the Cato Institute completed a study whereby their conclusion was: "Rather than bringing people together, public schooling often forces people of disparate backgrounds and beliefs into political combat"

They went on to say, "Such clashes are inevitalbe in government-run schooling because all Americans are required to support public schools, but only those with the most political power control them."

I am afraid you have victimized or at least you seem to be a product of the public school system. It is particulary noteworthy which political spectrum of American politics have controlled not only the public school system in recent years, but the university system as well.

Your purpose is to control the debate, not by pursuasion, but by bullying. Your mean-spirited comments are meant to inflame the opposition into retaliation which you then rebut for the purpose of demeaning your opponent.

O.K. already. Enough is enough. Either get a life or go to another web site where you will be more readily received. I make no apology to those who have stood up to you. We all know it is a lost cause arguing with a closed mind. Some just discover it sooner than later.

By the way
akimbo, you were slain long ago but you've failed to notice it yet. As for Kimberly, her brain deadness is obvious to all.

Sunny isn't
Under the pretext of being objective Sunny release this delightful piece on an unsuspecting gaggle of wingnuts: "We all know it is a lost cause arguing with a closed mind."

you know, Sunny, I was jus thinking that myself. you aptly have desribed the problem that Opie, Takes-one-on and Linny are struggling with, trying to argue using their closed minds. You are completely correct, though, it's just not possible. Kinda like Rush trying to state something comrephensible with his brain tied behind his back

Curious though in your post. Am I to take it that you are product of Private schools. Curious to know what private school you went to. One of those with white walls and bars on the windows. One of those that one gains entry to by scoring less than 60 on the WAIS. That must be it. You got free tuition and all the institutional food you could handle and now you have a tummy that rivals Rush's.

Thanls for your concern. The empathy of wingnuts is uniformly underwhelming. I gotta replace Amdrews with you on the four horsemen of the wingnuts. You're a much better candidate and deserving of the accolades of all of us libtards.

When we want something to look up to we always look to Sunny.

LOL

Justification
You guys ever notice how the "War on Terror" and the "terrorists" have been used over and over to justify legislation and actions that appear to be unconstitutional?

Even Opie can't tolerate Faux news
Loved it Opie when you wrote to Linny:"I watched part of it and recorded the rest." I feel the same way. Can only take so much of faux news and then you kinda feel slimed don't you? Glad to see you admit that even you, Opie, couldn't sit through the dreck that Faux news tries to pawn off on the public as information. Trust me. It won't get any better for having been recorded. It will still be the same "fair and balanced" tripe that wingnuts slurp up like boogers from their noses.


Linny's almost as desperate as Opie
What's the problem Linny? Feeling abandoned? Why the lament: "MyOpine,Taskwazen ,Sonny....Hey
guys, talk to me.."


They're not very intelligent company are they? Hey I have an idea. How's about we talk over their heads? It wouldn't be very difficult and I suspect well within the range of your normal discourse. Whatch ya say Linny?
Opie, Sunny and Tskes-one-on are out for the count, I'm pretty sure. It's just you and me and you sound pretty deperate.



Liberty you're barking up the wrong tree
You ask: "You guys ever notice how the "War on Terror" and the "terrorists" have been used over and over to justify legislation and actions that appear to be unconstitutional?"

I can state unequivocally that they've never noticed. That's what happens when you have your eye-bones glued to Faux News. Almost nothing of consequence gets your attention. Of course there are folks like Opie who just "record" Faux news so when they get too mcuh reality to handle they can just slip the 8 track into to old tape player and mainline Faux news right to their medial amygdala.

I did notice the same thing liberty, but you know in the present climate during the reign of Boy George, it's treasonous to point this out. You're likely in big trouble with those that count. Well at least they can count to three.

LOL

Lynne
I see what you mean.
I hope enough people watched that show and learned what America is up against.
It is going to get a lot uglier before it gets better.

Slaughter in Iraq
We didn't unleash a slaughter in Iraq.

Slaughter in Iraq
We didn't unleash a slaughter in Iraq. That is like saying that a cop who arrests a bad guy bears the blame when his gang begins killing in retribution.

It's a lot more complicated than that. It is true that had the Iraq Theater of the WOT not been opened by President Bush, the mess that is now there wouldn't include a bunch of Americans. The Golden Dome would still be standing. The Shiites and Kurds of Iraq would still be under threat, and Saddam would still be playing his games with the Oil-For-Food program and paying bounties for the murder of Jews.

All to the good, our liberal friends insist. After all, the Jews have big noses and they stuck them into Palestine where they don't belong. If they have to die to get the message, then whose fault is that?

Probably ours. After all, those damn Jews could never have started rampaging around Arab lands without our support, right? (one thing I've never quite understood: Bethlehem--the "City of David"--is in the West Bank. Therefore, the City of David is rightfully Arab property, correct? Even though Islam didn't come into being until thousands of years after David. How do you deniers square that circle?) Oh yeah, I forgot. This is a bunch of lying Jews we're talking about.

As for the WTC and 9-11, why, that wasn't really terror. After all, if we'd rolled up that plot in the planning stage, Keith Olbermann would be saying to an imaginary President Bush in the second person, "So hating Blacks and gays isn't enough for you, sir? Now you have to violate the civil rights of people whose only offense is Studying While Muslim? Turns out, the so-called 'plot' involved nothing more than a few photos of the Capitol, the Pentagon and the World Trade Center and a lot of panic by your anti-Muslim administration. Did these guys actually do anything illegal beyond overstaying their visas? How would you have treated them if they'd been white Europeans?"

The Iraq mess is wonderful, as far as I'm concerned. As long as these people whom Olbermann believes do not exist, insist on fighting Americans over there where we're armed to the teeth and itching to punch their tickets to paradise, that's fewer who will live to attack unarmed civilians over here. It is a messy war with a messy enemy, and it isn't going to get clean any time soon.

Governments around the Persian Gulf think we will be in a full shooting war with Iran by summer. I don't know about that, but if it happens, it will be interesting to watch not only the way the war plays out, but how the Democrats handle the challenge. My hunch is they'll go all John Kerry and insult the troops and the mission--and by extension, their countrymen who wish to stand up now before it gets immeasurably worse down the line.

My opinion is that there is going to be blood spilt between us and the Muslim nations. It can be now using conventional forces, or it can be in ten years when they have the ability to burn down several of our cities.

I choose now.

JMAD's Son is confused
JMAD writes: "The Iraq mess is wonderful, as far as I'm concerned. As long as these people whom Olbermann believes do not exist, insist on fighting Americans over there where we're armed to the teeth and itching to punch their tickets to paradise, that's fewer who will live to attack unarmed civilians over here. It is a messy war with a messy enemy, and it isn't going to get clean any time soon."

ONce again winnguts delighted that Boy George's incursion of choice has managed to kill 3100 Americans so far and the toll is rising.

To follow the MAD son's policy, the idea is to makes certain that at least 150 Americans are killed for every potential terrorist who might get into the US. It makes no sense, but then most wingnut thinking makes no sense. Wingnuts are delighted about sending more Americans off te be slaughtered in Iraq, because in their mind they might get lucky and kill the next 15 Islamic terrorists who would invade the US.

Stupid is as stupid does and it looks like there is no end to Boy George's stupidity and the idiocy of his wingnut supporters.


Catholic Church and the Holocaust
After reading this article I'm still trying to figure out why someone dragged the Catholic Church into it, stating that the Church "failed to aid the Jews". Since I know better, here are a few facts and quotes for those of you who are too busy name-calling to do a little research for yourself.

The Catholic Church, under the direction of Pope Pius XII, saved more Jews than any other person or rescue organization, including Oscar Schindler, Raoul Wallenberg, and the Red Cross. Vatican documents indicate that the Church operated an underground railroad that rescued more than 800,000 European Jews. This is from the Israeli diplomat and scholar, Pinchas Lapide.

Here's another one: The NY Times, in its Christmas editorials of 1941 and 1942 praised Pius XII for his moral leadership as a "lonely voice crying out of the silence of a continent" and for, "assailing the violent occupation of territory and the exile and persecution of human beings, for no other reason than race", and "The voice of Pius XII is a lonely voice in the silence and darkness enveloping Europe this Christmas...He is about the only ruler left on the continent of Europe who dares to raise his voice at all". That's right people, the NYT said that! My, how times have changed!

How about this one: Albert Einstein, who barely escaped the Nazis himself, said in an interview for Time magazine, "Only the Church stood squarely across the path of Hitler's campaign for suppressing the truth. I never had any special interest in the Church before, but now I feel great affection and admiration, and am forced thus to confess that what I once despised, I now praise unreservedly".

I could go on and on but I'll end with this last quote from Dr. Joseph Nathan who represented the Hebrew Commission, in Sept. 1945. "Above all, we acknowledge the Supreme Pontiff and the religious men and women who, executing the directives of the Holy Father, recognized the persecuted as their brothers and, with great abnegation, hastened to help them, disregarding the terrible dangers to which they were exposed".

I know that none of this will change the closed minds of some people toward the Catholic Church. The Church always has been and always will be, damned if we do and damned if we don't.

Mr. Irish, all well and good, but
The Catholic Church takes a slightly different view from yours. Here's a link to the Pope's apology for the silence of the Catholic Church druing the holocaust. I am providing a link too.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/65889.stm

"The Vatican has apologised to Jews on behalf of the entire Roman Catholic community, for failing to speak out against the Nazi holocaust during World War Two."

Pretty simple and straightforward don't you think. The Pope is infallible, so this much be an accurate reflection of the Church's position.

It is wonderful that many Catholics helped Jews escape as did many Germans and even a Nazi or two. The issue was the Catholic Church's official position, which was to remain silent resulting in the deaths of thousands and maybe millions more Jews where the action of the Catholic Church against Nazism could have prevented.

This has nothing to do with closed minds, but it does have to do with facts. The fact is that the Catholic Church did not actively oppose Mazism.


Like I said, damned if we do....
Thanks for the link but I'm familiar with the Pope's apology. One thing I want to clarify right off is that the Pope's charism of infallibility is strictly limited. A lot of people misunderstand that. Papal infallibility extends only to matters of faith and morals.

Once again, to say that the Church didn't actively oppose Nazism just isn't true. What is true is that Pius XII spoke out as much as he could, and was able to do more with actions than with words. In her article titled "The Truth About Pope Pius XII" Sister Margherita Marchione wrote: To the very end, he was convinced that should he denounce Hitler publicly, there would be retaliation. And there was. Whenever protests were made, treatment of prisoners worsened immediately. Robert Kempner, the American who served as deputy chief of the Nuremburg war crimes tribunal, wrote: "All the arguments and writings eventually used by the Catholic Church against Hitler only provoked suicide; the execution of Jews was followed by that of Catholic priests".

Could the Church have done more than it did? I don't know, maybe. Still, 800,000 Jews saved says to me that actions speak louder than words. Please indulge me one more quote from a Jewish Scholar of the Holocaust, Jeno Levai, who said: "it is a particularly regrettable irony that the one person in all of occupied Europe who did more than anyone else to halt the dreadful crime and alleviate its consequences is today made the scapegoat for the failures of others". Like I said, damned if we do and damned if we don't.

Speaking out is a moral duty?
I understand what Papal infallibility refers to and we are talking about the Morality of the Church.

Yes, it is likely that there would have ben retaliations against Catholics had the Pope spoken out against Nazism. There would have been those within the Catholic Church who would have reviled the Pope for speaking in support of Jews while putting Catholics at risk. That's the nature of difficult moral decisions and in this case the Pope decided to take the easy way out. Hence Pope John's apology for the moral failings of the Chursch in the Mazi era.

It has nothing to do with being damned if you do and damned if you don't and everything to do with a moral transgression of the Catholic Church which Pope John apologized for. Seems that you are unable to accept that and continue to make excuses for the Catholic Church's behavior during WW-II. Maybe you need to have a little talk with yourself and listen to what your Pope said.

There is a lesson to be learned from the Church's inaction today. When Boy George's disastrous policies are criticized, there are retaliations. That does not absolve any of us of the moral duty to point out his errors and the horrors of his misguided policy, else sometime 50 years from now we will be as guilty of inaction as was the Catholic Church.


Hey Bimbo:
"ONce again winnguts delighted that Boy George's incursion of choice has managed to kill 3100 Americans so far and the toll is rising.

To follow the MAD son's policy, the idea is to makes certain that at least 150 Americans are killed for every potential terrorist who might get into the US. It makes no sense, but then most wingnut thinking makes no sense. Wingnuts are delighted about sending more Americans off te be slaughtered in Iraq, because in their mind they might get lucky and kill the next 15 Islamic terrorists who would invade the US."

So by your math, if 3100 is the number right now, then our boys have killed only approximately 20 or 21 terrorists who might have potentially gotten into the United States--or killed Westerners abroad.

Apparently all the other deaths in Iraq constitute innocent little lambs, caught in the crossfire of a senseless war. You, sir, are the very definition of a wingnut.

If wingnuttery consists of taking positions as far outside the mainstream of society as possible, then refusal to stand up while your country is under attack is wingnuttery. Principled wingnuttery perhaps, but wingnuttery nonetheless.

I'm willing to stipulate that your opposition to defending your country against these attackers is based on pure, nonpartisan pacifism--if that truly is where it comes from.

But if a Democrat is elected president next cycle--a pretty strong possibility--you'd best prepare yourself for disappointment. You're very correct that the mainstream of our country hates this war. We hate war in general. You can blow up our embassies and we'll do nothing about it. You can try to sink our ships in port, we'll let it slide. You can kidnap us, bomb us, slander us, behead us, and we'll most likely let you off with some tough talk.

But there comes a point where it's head-cracking time. If you think, when the next head-cracking time comes, that your attitude toward your country defending herself is going to help your party's electoral chances, then you've gone from being a simple wingnut to a crazy or deluded wingnut.

Calling people names because they disagree with you is simple--and far easier than addressing their arguments.

I note you completely ignored my arguments and went straight to the name-calling. I would have addressed your argument point by point--but that was the only point you made.

tanabear's violence
tanabear writes: Saturday, February, 03, 2007 10:27 AM

However, the true terrorists that I fear are the neo-cons. They are people that cannot be reasoned with, they cannot be negotiated with and they simply cannot stop killing. If there is a dirty bomb that goes off in an American city, we don't need to look to Tehran or Pyongyang, just to the Vice-Presidents office. Victory will come when the neo-cons are being waterboarded at Club Gitmo
----------------------
Interesting. You advocate torture against American citizens simply because they have a differing political viewpoint. I'm sure that will influence other Americans to your position. Idiot.

akimbo denies reality
akimbo writes: Saturday, February, 03, 2007 1:43 PM
As Jews foind out in WW-II, waiting for Christians to come to the aid of Jews is a death sentence.

--------

This is too easy. Let's see, that would be the war where the liberals demanded we remain isolationist. You know, the war where the naysayers, like yourself, nearly lost the damn country for sitting on their haunches.

That's the problem with revisionism, mate. You even convince yourself that your stories are real.

0h oh 00000, you got it wrong
00000 writes: "This is too easy. Let's see, that would be the war where the liberals demanded we remain isolationist."

Try again.


I see Mad_eye's_son is out to lunch
JMAD's Son writes: "So by your math, if 3100 is the number right now, then our boys have killed only approximately 20 or 21 terrorists who might have potentially gotten into the United States--or killed Westerners abroad."

As usual you miss the point. It only took 20 terrorists in the US to execute 9/11. So just how many "potential terrorists" in Iraq (which in the wingnuts' minds is everyone who is not like themselves) to prevent another 20 getting into the US.

Darned stupid strategy to invade Iraq to kill all potential terrorists (which if of course we are not coming even close to doing, mostly killing civilians and helping create conditions for a continuing civil war). Much smarter strategy is to not let the 20 terrorists into the US in hte first place. Not good enough for Wingnuts, to actually develop a coherent strategy for protecting the US from attack. Nope, they favor killing thousands of Americans on the VERY remote chance that they might accidently kill someone who might become a terrorist attacking the US.

I could not have crstallyzed the idoicy of wingnut thinking Better than does Mr. Mad_son. As I said, there is little that wingnuts like more than sending Americans off to die for fatally flawed policies, if those policies have been generated by Boy Georges' fetid mind.

bushwhacker
How can you and all your fellow Dumbocrats be so naive and blind? Do you really think that we are in Iraq just for the fun of it?

Did anyone who voted to remove Saddam expect the situation to evolve into what it has become?
I DOUBT IT!
This is not a Republican or Democrat problem, DUH!
This is a mess that affects all Americans as well as all people on earth unless you are Mr. Olbermann.
I really am sick of hearing all the criticism and no viable solutions.
Why can't we all band together and be reasonable adults and solve problems instead of pointing fingers and crying our eyes out if things do not go our way.
GROW UP America!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No excuses here, just facts
Akimbo writes: seems that you are unable to accept that, and continue to make excuses for the Catholic Church's behavior during WWII.

I haven't made any excuses for the Church and I never will, I just brought some facts to light. I accept my Church, warts and all, but the one thing I can't accept is when people make blanket statements like yours about the Church failing to aid the Jews. My damned if you do and damned if you don't statement refers to the fact that no matter what the Church does or doesn't do, some people, like you, will never be satisfied. And that's all I can say about this topic.

Grow UP terrorism deniers
Exactly pop m. And Mr. Emanuel - "terrorism deniers" indeed.

What are some solutions for those of us at the mercy of the media and the liberal big mouths in constant public light?

Hanoi Jane? Why is she still committing treason?

Would a grass roots effort to arrest the traitors in the media, KO and cohorts, and public office ,HR,NP,TK, be effective?

I am all for freedom, but with freedom we must also have responsibility. If the loud-mouthed traitors have no personal lines whereby they know when to shut up and stop before committing treason, they should be helped when they do cross that line.

Freedom of speech is not a blanket endorsement for stupidity or treason.

Shouting "fire" in a crowded theater is a crime.

Shouting "stupid, liar, etc." at our President is equally criminal. Especially in time of war.

GROW UP, and shut up, or at least grow a brain.



Fellow conservative patriots
akimbo, ajr, kimberly, other liberal and otherwise confused folks posting here (excuse me if I missed you - as I said when I get the gist of your thoughts, there is really no need to read you. I avoid emoting whenever possible.) are one of the major problems we have in this country -- no logic.

We cannot sway them with logical arguments. These folks are inflammatory and the ignorance level is mind-boggling. And further, they are operating emotionally as they stuck in that infantile growth stage.

My 10 year old has more historical knowledge, and certainly more logic than these folks. He also has greater skills in rhetoric.

That said, how does one deal with them? Ignoring them is ineffective.

Lies not refuted become "truth" in our media blitzed society because so many folks, courtesy of our public "education" (indoctrination) system have no skills for discerning truth, or studying history. Pondering....

I've found many of the homeschoolers to be independent minded and skilled in thought and logic. Homeschooling is a huge movement. Of course, there are also the resident kooks there, but at least they are independent resident kooks, generally.

I fear our grandchildren, (children?) are going to face horrors untold if we grownups do not take some kind of action. BUt what?

God help us.



Fem Reb doesn't get it either
lah de dah writes: "Shouting "fire" in a crowded theater is a crime.

Shouting "stupid, liar, etc." at our President is equally criminal. Especially in time of war."

It is only a crime to should fire in a crowded theatre if there is no fire. If there is a fire it is called giving a warning.

Calling Bush stupid is not criminal, because it is telling the truth.

what is criminal is crying wolf about WMDs and getting 3100 Americans and countless Iraqis killed. Now that's criminal.

but not to the wingnuts. They just love killing Americans. Send more over, they say. Keep them coming home in body bags. This delights the wingnuts. There is nothing they won't support as long as it keeps Americans getting killed in iraq. Suggest doing something to stop the killing of Americans and the wingnuts rise up and yell 'criminal' and 'treason'. It's the wingnuts who want Americans dead almost as much as do the sunnis. They both have a common agenda - dead Americans.

More idiocy from Lady Reb
Got your stars and bars tattooed where the sun don't shine Lady Reb? 'spect so. I know your type.

Another content free post.

Why not demonstrate a bit of the historical acument that you claim your son picked up from somewhere.

Show us that Saddam and Iraq are connected to the 9/11 attack. Shouldn't be hard, it's what wingnuts claim all the time.

We're waiting Lady Reb
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