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Tuesday, May 01, 2007
Janice Shaw Crouse :: Townhall.com Columnist
Why the Left is Attacking Abstinence Programs
by Janice Shaw Crouse
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It happens all the time –– when Congress begins drafting appropriations bills dealing with the funding of sex education, the left starts undermining abstinence programs. The federal government disproportionately supports those sex education programs prominently featuring condom distribution from Planned Parenthood and other organizations that argue: "Teens are going to have sex anyway, so the best response is to teach teens to protect themselves and encourage them to practice ‘safe' sex." In fact, for every $12 spent on condom-based programs, only $1 is spent funding abstinence programs. Yet when appropriations hearings are held, you can count on well-timed research being released to "prove" that the few and relatively new abstinence programs don't work. The left vehemently argues that the government is throwing money away to support abstinence programs. Translation: All the federal money should go to the groups promoting "safe sex" through the use of condoms.

Often, the attacks are extreme and partisan. For instance, this weekend, the media, including the Washington Post, gave considerable attention to a 20-page document from The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU), Advocates for Youth and the Sexuality Information and Education Council of the United States (SIECUS) that simply regurgitated previous attacks on three abstinence programs. The letter criticized statistics from a 1993 program and attacked a program no longer published and one that has been updated and revised. Obviously, such unfounded criticism puts a political agenda before honest evaluation –– never mind students' well-being.

Last week, Mathematica Policy Research Inc. released a study of abstinence programs that was widely disseminated even though it was a very limited study –– only four early abstinence programs –– and was based on flawed methodology. The targeted children were in abstinence programs at age 9-11 and had no follow-up before being evaluated when they were 15-16 years of age.

The misleading Mathematica study made headlines in all media. An alarmist MSNBC report was headlined, "Blind faith on sex-ed approach puts kids at risk." The politically-motivated subheading declared, "Bullheaded Bush administration puts abstinence ideology before lives." The Christian Science Monitor put a positive headline on a very negative article. The headline: "Honesty about abstinence-only: To confront the apparent failures of these programs is not to give up on teen abstinence as a standard [emphasis added]." In spite of the headline, however, the article used 13 paragraphs to explain how abstinence programs have produced "zero effect. That's right: zero."

Common sense tells you that you're not likely to find something that you're determined not to see. One study of a D.C.-area program found that girls in the abstinence program were seven times less likely to engage in sexual activity than those who were not in the program. Common sense also says that something has been at work to bring down the rates of sexual activity by teens over the last 15 years. That "something at work" certainly isn't the liberal sex education bilge that has polluted the minds of teens for the last 40-50 years; the "sex is no big deal" and "sex-without-consequences" agendas of such "education" programs are hard to distinguish from the ones pushed by Hugh Hefner at Playboy. Those agendas produced unprecedented rates of teen sexual activity, out-of-wedlock births and abortions.

Yet frequently truth breaks through the darkness of lies and distortion. Truth can even spotlight the fallacies in special-interest agendas.

For instance, the Journal of Research on Adolescence just published the results of a survey covering 1,052 inner-city adolescents. A team of pediatricians at New York City's Albert Einstein College of Medicine conducted the research and found that abstinent students have a stronger academic profile, while those who engage in sexual experimentation are more likely to exhibit academic and behavioral pathologies. The non-abstinent students were more likely to earn low grades, drop out of high school and experiment with drug and alcohol use. The Einstein scholars identified the "co-occurrence of substance abuse and dropping out of school with sexual activity" as a "problem behavior syndrome."

Abstinence programs don't as yet have a long track record; they've only been in place a few years, and only recently have they seen widespread use in schools across the nation. There aren't that many evaluations of the programs available, though 12 studies indicate remarkable effectiveness.

The big story, however, is the trends revealed in the official data indicating dramatic and remarkable demographic changes that coincide with the broader use of abstinence-only programs across the nation. Official government statistics show reversals in trend lines that were resistant to change prior to the availability of abstinence-only programs. These data are available, but hardly anyone is paying attention; certainly, the following three trends aren't making the headlines –– and they should.

TEEN SEXUAL ACTIVITY IS DOWN

The Centers for Disease Control reports that teen sexual activity has decreased; the downturn is especially dramatic among black teens –– dropping from 81.4 percent in 1991 to 67.6 percent in 2005 (see Figure 1 below). Among Hispanics, the drop is relatively small but in the right direction –– from 53.1 to 51.0. Among whites, the reversal of the trend is important because the number has stayed below 50 percent since the mid-90s and now is at 43.0 percent.

The downward trends in three population groups represent documented changes in teen behavior — even with a slight blip upward in the early 2000s, rates are still well below that of the early 1990s.

Why would we go back to programs that encourage students to engage in behavior that we know is risky — behaviors that the Einstein pediatricians indicate produce "problem behavior syndrome"?

TEEN BIRTHRATES ARE DOWN

Between 1940 and 1954, the unwed birthrate for teens (15-19 years old) doubled; it doubled again by 1984, and increased another 50 percent before peaking in 1994. Since 1994, however — and in defiance of everyone's expectations — unwed teen birthrates have steadily followed a downward trend. The National Vital Statistics Report reveals that (based on preliminary data for 2005), teen birthrates are down by 25 percent since 1994.

The unwed birthrate for younger teens (15-17) declined by 12 per thousand since 1994, while the rate for older teens (18-19) declined by 11 per thousand. The older teen drop is particularly significant because from 1974-1994 their unwed birthrate paralleled the rate for unmarried early 20s women. After 1994, though, the older teen rate dropped while that of the unmarried early 20s continued to climb (though at a slower rate than in the 1980s).

It is worth repeating that this reversal of trend in the unwed teen birthrate stands in sharp contrast to the fact that the unwed birthrate for women in their 20s has continued to go up –– for unmarried women 20-24, a 5 percent increase from 1994 to 2005 and among unmarried women 25-29, an astounding 25 percent increase!

The drop in teen births is particularly encouraging in that it has occurred among both black and white teens and both younger and older teens, most especially among the younger 15-17 year-old teens who have not had a chance to complete their high school education.

The rate for black teens peaked in 1991 (for 15-17 year olds: 80 per thousand in 1991 to 37 per thousand in 2004 and for 18-19 year olds a drop of nearly one-third: 149 per thousand in 1991 to 101 per thousand in 2004).

The birth rate among unmarried black teens in both age groups was lower in 2004 than it has been in over four decades.

While birth rates among unmarried black teens remains high compared to rates for unmarried white teens, the gap between black and white teens narrowed considerably during the 1990s.

For white teens the peak in unwed births was in 1994. In the post-WW II era, the birth rates among unmarried white teens in both age groups rose steadily until 1994 (from 3 per thousand to 24 among 15-17 year olds and from 8 per thousand to 56 among 18-19 year olds).

The effect of these declines in birthrates has been dramatic and is an under-reported success story about young African-American women; perhaps what has been happening among black teens can best be appreciated by translating it into the number of teen births averted. Total births to black teens declined from 136,000 in 1996 to 107,000 in 2005, a decrease of more than 21.5 percent. More than 90 percent of this decline was accounted for by the decrease in unwed teen births.

TEEN ABORTIONS ARE DOWN

The National Center for Health Statistics reports that the rate of teen abortions has been cut in half since 1988. At its peak, teen abortions were at 44 per 1000. Now at a dramatic low, the number is 22 per 1000. Obviously, we cannot credit today's declining teen birthrate to teens turning to abortion.

Interestingly, as teens become more abstinent, there are fewer abortions, too. One has to ask if a greater appreciation for life is a byproduct of the self-discipline and self-esteem that is required for a teen to remain abstinent.

Let's do the math. Three out of three's not bad! Especially considering that liberal researchers can't seem to find any effect from abstinence programs. During the 30-year reign of condom-based sex education, teen sexual activity increased, teen births dramatically increased and teen abortions were going up. What's different now? Have teens suddenly learned how to use condoms more effectively and consistently than adult women who are using contraception but are frequently surprised nonetheless to find themselves pregnant? Somehow, I doubt it!

Clearly, many teens have heard the truth and are abstaining from sex –– a decision that is best for them in every way. Along with decreased sexual activity among teens, we are seeing corresponding decreases in teen births and teen abortions. These simultaneous reverses in trends indicate that teens are choosing a path that is proven to lead to a bright and promising future both in their personal lives and in every other aspect of their well-being.

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About The Author
Janice Shaw Crouse is a former speechwriter for George H. W. Bush and now political commentator for the Concerned Women for America Legislative Action Committee.
 
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meh
the ads all around telling kids not to try drugs have been deemed ineffective so why should a sex education program that tells them not to have sex be any different.

Dear will
RE: Your comment that "History & social mores are changing now with regards to gays..." This is pure wishful thinking. The ONLY place where this is happening is among you and your homofruitic buddies and your media allies. No such change is evident anywhere else.

a couple of problems
1) None of the numbers presented here show any causal relationship between abstinence education and declining teen sex and pregnency rates.

2) In my town, during the early 1990s, the high school with the highest rate of teen pregnency was the fundamemtalist christian one--ignorance is not always bliss.

What's wrong with having all the facts?
I was given the facts of life by my mother when I was nine years old. I understood what caused pregancy, and when I got a little older, I was told about birth control. I made the conscious decision to abstain based on what I knew, because when I was about twelve a classmate's older sister became pregnant and had to drop out of school at age fifteen. I remember thinking that short of disease or being in a car wreck that left maiming injuries, there was nothing worse that could happen to a teenaged girl. Her life as she knew it was over.

Contrast that to my husband and his ex-wife. They attended private Christian schools where they were given abstinence-only "sex education." They became parents at barely 18.

The difference is that one of us was armed with all the facts and able to make a decision based on those facts. The other wasn't told what would happen if he engaged in sex, just not to do it. As long as a young man doesn't encounter a young woman who doesn't get along with her parents and figures that the way to get out of their house is to get pregnant so that she'll have to get married, and decides to pick that young man as her lucky sucker, then I suppose abstinence-only programs work all right.

I realize this is anecdotal. It's not necessarily true that "kids are going to have sex anyway," because not every kid does. But if I had children of my own (I have stepsons) I would certainly make sure that they were armed with all the facts.

Now here's the rub: is it the school's function to teach ANY of this? I personally believe it's the parents' role. But unfortunately not every child is raised by parents like mine, or sometimes any at all. And abstinence-only programs won't save a girl from being raped. Which I was. By a friend. When I was fourteen.

So even though I had made the conscious decision that I did not want to engage in sex until I was married, because I knew that pregnancy was a possible consequence, that freedom of decision was taken away from me and made for me. Fortunately, I did not get pregnant. Unfortunately, I kept this information to myself for twenty years and only recently was able to tell my parents what had happened. I have a feeling I'm not the only girl something like this has happened to.

I guess my point is that AT THAT TIME (early 80s), nothing the school could have done, or did do, would have made a difference in my case. We all received the same basic sex education films in the fifth grade (boys in one room, girls in another). I knew exactly what had happened to me, because of my mother's preparation, but I'm not sure I could have gone to anyone in the school and asked for help or information.

Ultimately, I think it's the parents' role (just as I think it's the parents' role to pray with their children), but since every parent does not do their job as well as mine did, then it's better that kids get the information from the school than from nobody at all. And I'm sorry, I'm just not convinced that a teenaged pregnancy is on a higher moral level than an abortion, having been in that sad, scared place myself and hoping against hope that I wasn't pregnant.

Birth control information should not be hard to get. Kids, especially frightened kids, should not have to be ashamed to ask for help or information. That's my two cents.


In response to Daddyhill
Sure, let's talk about facts.
The fact is, my daughters aren't statistics. They are my children. They are able to profit from teaching-- in fact, they routinely do. I might not have a very high opinion of the ability of faceless statistical children to do the right thing, but I have a very high opinion of my children to make good decisions most of the time, if taught to do so. Particularly when that teaching is clearly linked to the goal of getting them to adulthood safely, healthily, without the excess baggage of regretted decisions. Other people may consider their children as the moral equivalent of dogs, but mine are not.
You see, *actual* childrearing bears no resemblance to number-crunching.

"while 48% of children of parents with low levels of religious belief have had sex by age 18, only 41% of children of parents with high belief levels have had sex by age 18. Wow, a 7% difference!"

Presumably true, as far as it goes. But in my personal experience, one who has received abstinence training is likely to make mistakes, but many fewer of them. Did the study list average number of partners or incidents?
It is not the case that if one can't be spotless, one might as well wallow in the mud.

Anyway, it's not that big a deal. Remove abstinence teaching from schools, and parents like Michelle and I will continue to teach abstinence to their children at home. And children like ours will continue to be much more likely to get to adulthood without disease, unwanted pregnancy or guilt.

Oh, about your comment on nuns. I happen to think that the Church should not insist upon permanent celibacy for clergy or anyone else. God clearly made us with sexual needs. We do poorly when we try to prohibit the legitimate exercise of them altogher. Of course, I would think this way, as the son of a Baptist minister!

Facts, not illusions
Mr. D says only one girl in his graduating class got pregnant during the early 60's? Oh, really? Were all the girls sharing the results of their rabbit tests with you? None of them had to risk their lives getting an illegal abortion? None of them had to disappear for nine months so that "nice boys" like you wouldn't find out? None of them were having sex but didn't get pregnant for one reason or another? Please. We know that as many as 25% of conceptions may result in a miscarriage before the sixth week after the LMP, i.e. before the girl/woman herself is aware of being pregnant. It's also a certainty that at least some of the kids in your class knew how obtain and use condoms back then, even if you didn't. Put all this together and there is simply no way for YOU to know exactly how many of your classmates got pregnant, let alone how many of them were having sex (I notice you didn't mention that, by the way).

AudiR10 talks about the nuns she knew who never had sex but were alive and well. Unfortunately, you didn't get to know the ones who died of breast cancer, which occurs more frequently among nuns than other women--something we've known since
1713 when Bernardino Ramazzini wrote about it. The irony is that age of first full-term pregnancy is one of the few significant, modifiable risk factors for breast cancer in women that we know about--the earlier the better--but we can't put that knowledge to effective use, for fairly good reasons. Again, unfortunately, American women who postpone that first pregnancy until they're 30 are just going to have to live with a risk of breast cancer significantly higher than their counterparts of, say, 200 years ago who often had their first babies at 16-18 years of age. But don't take my word for it--visit the American Cancer Society web site to learn more about this.

And speaking of learning more, all of us would do well to visit the Putting What Works To Work area on the National Campaign To Prevent Teen Pregnancy (www.teenpregnancy.org) web site. The people in this program have learned quite a lot in the last ten years. For one thing, they make it very clear that the best data available show that intervention programs emphasizing BOTH abstinence AND correct, consistent use of condoms can result in postponement of sexual activity and risk of pregnancy and STDs. Neither approach alone seems to get the job done. Another consistent finding of theirs is that religion does make a difference: while 48% of children of parents with low levels of religious belief have had sex by age 18, only 41% of children of parents with high belief levels have had sex by age 18. Wow, a 7% difference! There's a fly in the buttermilk, however: children from highly religious homes were somewhat less likely than children from less religious homes to use a contraceptive the first time they had sex. Not so good.

The point here is that there are real people out there in the real world collecting real data about what real teenagers really think, really believe, and really do. If you think that facts are more important than opinions in this discussion, then check with the people who finding those facts. If, on the other hand, you prefer opinions based on questionable theology and even more questionable powers of observation, then you're certainly welcome to rely on what faith-based groups and programs have to say. Just don't be surprised when your son or daughter turns up infected or pregnant despite having postponed having sex until the advanced age of 19.

In response to Will
My internet connection tends to go out in the early morning hours, as it is in my current time zone.
However, that gave me an opportunity to step back from our conversation and take a look at some things.

2 Timothy 2:23 says:
"Don't have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels. And the Lord's servant must not quarrel; instead he must be kind to everyone..."

You and I will not see eye to eye on certain things. There seems no likelihood that continuing this discussion can lead to anything but frustration, so I guess I'll let it be.

As for feeling threatened and confused, looking back on the difficulties the early Christians faced in Roman society, the situation today really doesn't seem that threatening or confusing by comparison!

Perhaps we'll converse again tomorrow. Good night.

In response to will
"Who said I wanted your "acceptance"? Accept me or don't, that's not my issue, it's yours."

Excellent. Then we have no point of difference there.

"As a gay man, I want to change laws. I want other gay kids to feel comfortable & self-respecting & healthy about who they are (AGAIN, not asking for your "acceptance" here; I'll still fight for laws to be changed. I'm OK with who I am; if you're not. that's YOUR issue)."

I dunno how changing laws will make gays feel comfortable and self-respecting if they don't already do so. I suppose that 'official sanction' would probably be comforting. More on that below.

"You have some huge chip on your shoulder thinking that gays are out for your blessing. You must think you're real special."

First, I have no doubt no one is seeking my 'blessing'. Which is why I said 'approval'.
Second, one definition of 'approve' is:
To give formal or official sanction to.

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/approving

And that is EXACTLY what you seek to do with your changes to the law. Yes, neighbor, you DO seek approval. You fool no one by denying that fact.

Will
Changing laws will not make homosexuals, adult virgins, or other sexual deviants feel comfortable and self-respecting and healthy about whom they are. That can only come from within.

In response to momof5girls
Thank you. I appreciate your posts, as well. I certainly share your concern over your daughters: I worry constantly about whether I am doing all I can for my girls, especially when I am away for a year at a time.

I simply cannot understand why so many otherwise compassionate people have so little faith in the ability of their children to do right. I know my girls will make mistakes; but I also know they *want* to do well, and *can* do well if they just know how.

In response to Wold
Simply 'making correct information available if they want it' is an abrogation of parental responsibility.
It is tantamount to being *prepared* to teach your child not to play in the streets, but not raising the issue unless he wants to know.

It has nothing to do with what you teach
My parents never gave me a birds and bees lecture. They had an arranged marriage ( they are Hindu, I am not) Me and my litle sister both got the one day a year in health class where they split us up into girls and boys and did the whole sex education thing. Our parents taught us that sex was dirty unless you were married. We weren't allowed to date til college.

My sister married her third boyfriend and went to her marriage bed a virgin.

I joined the Marines and nailed women on 6 continents. I'm STILL not married. Still having sex.

Did my parent's fail or succeed?


I think in the end, kids will do what they want. And it doesn't hurt to make correct information available if they ask for it.


Talli2long
Thank you for your heartfelt, sensible posts. Having 5 daughters, I share your desire to have them avoid the mistakes of our pasts. How anyone could want their precious daughters (or sons, for that matter) to cheapen themselves in such a way is beyond my comprehension.

Personal experience
Perhaps it would be well to illustrate some of these points with a personal example.

My father, a Baptist minister, did not give me any individual instruction about abstinence. Apparently he figured I'd pick up the correct lessons from the extremely infrequent sermons dealing with sexual matters. Thus, my abstinence training was extremely spotty.

I became sexually active at the age of 16, and married a few months before turning 20 (to Michelle, my wife of--so far-- eighteen years).
In the intervening time, I had sex with four girls (Michelle being one), for a total of around seven times. That's SEVEN times.
My sexual activities were not limited by opportunity-- my girlfriends were honestly puzzled as to why I didn't make more use of their willingness. The limiting factor was my understanding that premarital sex was risky, immoral, and a poor substitute for a permanent marital sexual relationship. I made mistakes, but understood that they were mistakes that should be avoided. I wasn't always successful (hormones ARE pretty potent), but nobody is perfect.
So what little abstinence training i received was a total failure, right? Having sex with four girls (one of whom I soon married) was no better than having sex with fifty, right?
Wrong. Those friends of mine who had received NO abstinence training, by the age of 19, had generally had a dozen or more partners. Quite a few of them caught various nasty ailments or parasites; some became pregnant. Virtually all have by now experienced at least one divorce. The risks I ran were GREATLY fewer than theirs; when I married I had many fewer ex-partners to potentially trouble my marriage. I also had less sin of which to repent in the eyes of God.

So in fact, although I made mistakes, even my imperfect abstinence training must be counted a success. There is a great difference between making occasional errors contrary to one's intention, and wallowing in the mud.

Now, I apologize for my long-windedness in these several posts. This is a matter dear to my heart, as I have three daughters whom I hope will avoid the worst mistakes and grow up to live a joyful, healthy adult life with the husbands they choose.

In response to bryce
"The one post I saw that mentioned him [Tobias] dismisses him as just one man. Just one man? How about his being the man who was charged with disseminating and promoting the ideas many espouse here, all the while hiring escorts."

Please, since you weren't unwilling to correspond with me regarding my post, don't mischaractize my statements now.

I asked you: "So acts committed by one man relegate the entire human race to the level of the lowest common denominator?"

You didn't answer that question, which was probably wise. You see, every person is reponsible for their OWN actions, and just because Tobias screwed up does NOT change the fact that abstinence is the only guaranteed way to avoid unwanted pregnancy or STDs. Your argument assumes that individual mistakes invalidate known facts. It also assumes that all individuals are exactly the same. Both these notions are patently absurd, and seem to represent the view of certain individuals in the progressive camp that humans are just a big faceless herd of animals, all doomed to live at the lowest common denominator of behavior.

Well, if the lowest common denominator is all you think *your* kids capable of, I think more highly of mine.
Yes, they CAN be better than Tobias. Yours can too, if you'll teach them.

In response to will
"Schools teaching tolerance or respect for gay teens (& adults) is not about "sex". "

The real problem with 'tolerance' is that so many liberals or progressives insist that tolerance means approval.
It does NOT.
I tolerate gays (teenage and otherwise). I don't act hatefully towards them, I don't try to run them out of town, I don't point and glare at them. Indeed, as long as individual homosexuals leave sex AT HOME, which is where it belongs, I could care less about their sexual choices.
(as a footnote, heterosexuals should leave sex at home, too; sex is not for the public square)

However, tolerating gays does NOT mean I am obligated to accept homosexual acts as normal, or as being moral. I need NOT accept that a coupling between two men (or two women) is equivalent for purposes of raising healthy children as a loving and committed heterosexual couple. I need NOT give up my free-speech right to contend that homosexual acts are sinful.

The childish mistake made all too often on the left is to misrepresent the concept of *tolerance*.

As long as one defines tolerance PROPERLY, I think few people would have a problem with it being taught in our public schools. However, rather than teaching kids "You shouldn't hate anyone for any reason, including being gay", what is generally taught is "Homosexuality is proper, moral and perfectly normal".
Which, frankly, are judgements which can honestly differ from person to person.


In response to dbz77 and killer
"Your daughter will not be a teenager FOREVER.
She will grow up, and when she grows up she will have sex with boys, unless she is a lezzie rug muncher or a loser. Abstinence-only sex ed does not prepare anyone for adult life"

Precisely. My daughter will NOT be a teenager forever. Everything I try to teach her is geared toward getting her to adulthood safely, healthily, without having made too many mistakes to regret and carry with her, and with an accurate understanding of the value of permanent relationships as opposed to the *simulation of love by casual sex*.
The way to do all this with regard to sexuality is to teach her NOT to sleep around, but rather to find someone she wants to love and be with for the rest of her life, and reserve her affections for him.

And if you read my postings with comprehension, you will see that I did NOT advocate 'abstinence only' teaching as you claim. In fact, I said:

"But let me not be misunderstood. I think kids should be taught about safer-sex methods, also. NOT because they will inevitably act like dogs, nor to encourage them to act like dogs, nor to imply that it's okay to act like dogs; but because if they make mistakes, it were best if the consequences could be mitigated."

So please, drop your strawman claims and READ what I posted.
_______________________

killer wrote:
"Most of the women in America were not "VIRGINS" upon marriage.Yet, today we put unnecessary pressure on young people and others, to do what none of "US" have ever done"

First, there ARE some people who enter marriage as virgins. Just because you can't believe in that sort of self-discipline doesnt mean that all others lack it.
But do you REALLY think we should just stand by and let our kids learn by making the same catastrophic mistakes that many of us made? Shouldn't we explain how our own errors impacted us and encourage our children to do better than we did, to avoid those errors? What is the point of experience if we refuse to pass its lessons along to our kids? It is a common fallacy of those on the left to insist "If you can't be perfect, you can't speak at all".

But you still fail to understand the situation. Abstinence is NOT truly an 'all or nothing' proposition. My daughter might very well make mistakes (I did when I was younger). however, she understands that sex outside of marriage IS a risky and sinful mistake, and to be avoided. A child who is taught that it is quite appropriate for her to act like a dog will almost certainly have MANY more partners, MANY more opportunities to become pregnant or diseased, MANY more occasions to offend our Creator.
If teaching my child abstinence only REDUCES the risks she will run, it is still worthwhile. It is not a case that if one can't remain utterly spotless, one might as well wallow in the mud.
God forgives us our sins if we repent of them, and walking through a minefield ONCE is less risky than traipsing through daily.

In the end...
It really comes down to this; are we a theocracy or a republican democracy? When you ask the abstinence only people why they won't even consider allowing contraception to be tought along with abstinence, their eventual answer is based on their Christian beliefs that it is "wrong." But they desperately need to wake up to a hard fact: this is not a Christian nation. Yes, it's a nation with a strong influence of Christianity, and there's nothing necessarily wrong with that. But when the ultimate basis for making a policy decision comes down to your religious beliefs, you've led us down a road that leads to the destruction of both the state and the church.
So wake up! Some of us aren't Christian and while we respect your personal beliefs, we don't want them to be the sole basis of policy decisions that affect the rest of us. If you have to, please close your eyes and imagine that America is 90% Jewish, or Muslim, or Buddhist: wouldn't you resent having that dominant religion shoved down your throat? I know it's hard to imagine, but please try...

Middle Ground
There is a middle ground between total promiscuity and abstinence-until-marriage.

That would be restricting sex to those whom you care about. Not random strangers, and no waiting until 27 to have sex (an idea that is as popular as homosexuality.)

seems if I remember correctly
these things run in cycles, like drug abuse. Promiscuity was rampant in the sixties, less so in the eighties, and as the aughts came around there was an upswing. The upshot is that generations seem to recognize the problems with the last one and attempt to compensate for them. I don't have data to back this up, but just look at the people you know. I grew up in the eighties and almost everybody who was sexually active was at least serially if not totally monogamous. Then we had the late 90s where everybody was s**ewing. Just an idea

Not radical?
Gay marraige is a far more radical concept than polygamy, arranged marraige, or child brides, looking at all world cultures historically. I think we both find these practices abhorrent, but the ultimate question is not "how radical is it", but "is it morally acceptable".

Ultimately, we need to recognise the existance of a transcendant moral law, that overrides culture, personal taste, and popular opinion. That is the basis of the US Declaration of Independence and Constitution, and Western Democracy as a concept.

You have yet to demonstrate that a gay marraige is really equal to a normal marraige, which relies on the "diversity" of genders coming together to make something more than the sum of the parts.

Safe Sex
When I was a teen I practiced a 100% effective method of safe sex. Never failed me at any point in time, and even better it protected me from AIDS and other STDs and best of all, I wasn't destroyed emotionally when a relationship with a guy didn't work out...want to know this contreceptive method that I used that protected me so well...simple...it was No Sex...period the end...

Point blank, I didn't put out the guys knew it and guess what..they actually RESPECTED me for my decision. Now a days, its as though the girls want to be accepted more than respected. I'll take the latter any old day, because I can walk away from that person after figuring out that the relationship is not going to work and still remain friends...can't do that as easily if there has been sexual interaction.

typo
I meant "miscegenation".

Mixed marraige
Will, you make a good point about my being able to marry another jerk, but in the interests of diversity I want to marry a non-jerk. Do you object to this form of miscenegation?

Consenting Adults?
Why draw the line at "consenting adults"? Throughout history, and in many parts of the world today, arranged marraiges are performed, often with a child bride. Neither consent nor adulthood are required. A true moral relativist would recognize that he has no right to impose his own personal morality on people from other cultures. Or are you so arrogant as to think these cultures are morally innferior to ours.

Global Warming (for Will)
If I am full of hot air, it is merely to prevent further Global Warming. BTW, do you have an actual point to make about my posts, or are you just attacking my personality?

If your point is that I am a jerk, you are most likely correct, but why can't you be tolerant of that? The only way get through life as a jerk is to stay "in the closet". As soon as people discover I am a jerk I become a social leper. Please, please let us give equal rights to the jerks of the world.

Gabby
At least when you talk a lot you actually say something, using facts and logic, unlike most liberal "thinkers" (Cornell West springs to mind).

Will- My Significant Other is My Cat!
Before bashing Kathy about her "intolerance" look at your own religious intolerance that calls any belief other than your own tantamount to a "hate crime." Your belief, enshrined in urban myth and public policy, that teenagers "will have sex anyway" has led to the kind of epidemic problems Crouse so eloquently exposes.

The "cafeteria" morality you propose makes no distinction between permissiveness and tolerance, and leads to an illogical extension of minority entitlement status to a politically correct lifestyle choice. Where does this end?



Screwing.. in a lightbulb
Apparently "environmentalism" is to be taught as a moral issue, but sex is not. Incandescant bulbs are "evil", but enagaging in promiscuous sex is a "health care issue" to be treated as morally neutral. Did I miss something?

Gabby says:
"...The tidal wave of depopulation swept over Greece and Rome in their periods of conspicuous increase in s[e]xual promiscuity. Low birth rates were consistent with the rise in profligate behavior and subsequent extinction among the aristocratic and upper-class segments of society throughout history. The fact is this same pattern of depopulation has accompanied every society that has moved from absolute monogamy in legal marriage to more libertine expressions of so-called s[e]xual freedom..."

Exactly. You don't even have to bring religion into the argument, history itself tells us that on our present course we are doomed.

Gabby is right but...
Please keep your posts short and to the point. Like this one.

drivebyposting and AudiR10
driveby, your response had nothing to do with what I said. AudiR10, your beef is with drivebyposting. It was him that made the comments you replied to.

And just for the record, I wasn't implying that we shouldn't teach abstinence, what I was saying is this culture is too soaked in sexual innuendo and outright sexuality. You'll see on the news, a "shocking" story about someone raping a 12 year old, followed immediately by "after the break, Britney nude on the beach!"

Someone said teaching abstinence is unreasonable, and I said if it is, it's because of all the sexual influences in today's culture. Until we do something about that, abstinence training will have limited success.

Decisons are in the margins
Why is it that abstinence content has to be eliminated from the sex ed programs because it strikes against the liberal belief that not having sex (at age 14 or age 40) is akin to going without food or water? Why is it that STI protection and contraception knowledge has to be eliminated from the sex ed programs because it strikes against the evangelical belief that anyone not living up to their credo deserves the full and unmitigated, worst-possible-scenario consequences for their actions? Why can't all available knowledge be presented, and teenagers make up their own minds, hopefully in consultation with their parents? If an individual teenager (or a 40-year-old) have the conviction and the strength to stand tall in the river of filth flowing from popular culture and “situational” morality, is the knowledge of how others might use a condom correctly really going to undermine their position? And if a teenager (or a 40-year-old) is being led by his or her . . . nose . . . regarding when, where, and with whom they form sexual liaisons, is the knowledge that others choose not to make the same foolish choices really too great a burden for them to bear?

Public School is the problem
Parents abandon their God-given responsibility to the ungodly when they send their little ones to 'Public' spell indoctrination, State Schools. The decades of Women's lib propaganda has eliminated the home and replaced it with Day Care Centers. With Mom and Dad out of the way, the Noble Secular State can 'program' the next generation of sheeple to obey and comply with big Sister.
Get your children out of Public Mis Education. Now it would seem they aren't even learning how to read and write,
why bother when you can sit in the library and surf the web during 'study hall'?
Public Education-- a farce and a tragedy.
Without God, you have moral anarchy and rebellion.
As for Sex education, nobody has to show the dumb animals how to do it and we managed for almost 6,000 years without special 'expert' training.
If I ever felt the need for such training, it would not be at the foot of some ungodly secular humanist with their amoral worldview.

$ are behind opposition
Planned Parenthood is a big financeer of the attack on abstinence.

This scum thinking organization gets money by performing abortions.

Teen sex means babies and the scum come to murder the babies and collect the money.

These people belong in jail as they are the biggest of scams (scum).

Ethical rubber
Given that the world's supply of latex comes from countries like Malaysia and Thailand, perhaps we should call for a boycott of condoms. The environmental damage and poor labor standards should be provoking outrage on the left, yet they remain strangely silent on this issue. Perhaps we should only allow "fair-trade" rubber to be used, thus driving up the price exponentially. Hmmmm...

I wish I'd stop seeing that argument
I keep hearing the 12 to 1 argument on contraception funding versus abstinence. But the funding being compared is for health care, not education. Yes, it helps pay for contraception services, but also to PAP smears and prenatal care.

It's one thing to believe abstinence is the best policy, which I wholeheartedly agree. It's an entirely different thing to compare abstinence programs to health care. There's just no need to put out falsehoods like that.

RE: bryce
Let's see, liberal mentality = "if a grown married man can't abstain from sex then how can we expect children to abstain from sex?"

Tobias is not a student in a public school. Yeah, he's a public figure holding a public office and what he did was wrong. But no one here is going to be held accountable for someone else's actions; each person is accountable for his own actions. That doesn't mean that teaching abstinence is wrong. You act as though Tobias was the sole proprietor of the abstinence cause. I tell you, he is not and that teaching abstinence has been around as long as man has been on this earth.

You sound like all those people who say they don't go to church because there are too many hypocrites in the church. Well, guess what, Jesus did not come to save the righteous, but sinners. If everyone was perfect, then there would be no need for this discussion. The problem is that you and other liberals believe truth cannot be known or that truth comes from man. But God's word is truth and it can be found through studying the Bible.

I've been rereading posts here
And guess what, the hypocrite Tobias has been making the same comments for years now while hiring escorts. Sorry, but he makes the defenses of the program ring hollow. Again, not even the man appointed to promote ABC can abibe by its' strictures.

By the way to those who say the problem is liberals I say give me a break. It is your man Tobias who has talking out of two sides of his mouth.

dbz77
This column is about teaching kids abstinence in school, and by your posts you appear to be strongly against this message.

"...most Americans oppose abstinence programs.
Schools might as well advocate HOMOSEXUALITY"

"Abstinence is refusal to try sex."

you can try to ignore Tobias
but you know what, he's the pink elephant in the living room. The one post I saw that mentioned him dismisses him as just one man. Just one man? How about his being the man who was charged with disseminating and promoting the ideas many espouse here, all the while hiring escorts.

The simple fact is this, it is disingenuous to presume that if the point man on ABC can't abibe by its' strictures, that these programs would work on a practical level.

The Only Perverts Here...
...are those advocating adult virginity, at least untilm the queers start chiming in.

Icedog
Where did I mention advocating that CHILDREN have sex?

Each of my posts deals with ADULTS having sex.

I Love Texas
How many 40-year-old "children" are there?

Why Cherry-Pick
Why not take the, "kids are going to do it anyway" approach all the way.

Let's make sure our kids have clean needles and good high-grade heroin....best to teach them "safe drug usage".

We should also teach them how to drive drunk....they're going to do it anyway, it would be irresponsible of our schools not to teach them.

Our schools should also teach them how to cheat on tests and their taxes...

We all know they will do this stuff anyway, so it only makes sense to have it publicly endorsed by our society....and the kids know the teachers would never advocate a behavior that may bring them harm....right?

amusing
The funniest part of this account is figure one which shows that the decline for blacks began in 1991 and for white and hispanics began around 1995. It also shows that the rates began to climb sharply for blacks and hispanics in 2001 and for whites in 2003. 2001 happens to be when the proliferation of abstinence only programs took hold.

The reason that liberals object to abstinence only programs is that while they think that abortion should be legal, they also want it to be rare. So spending money on programs that are not effective at reducing pregnancy at the expense of programs that do is a problem.

Here conservative focus is on principle, teenagers should be abstinate (they should), abortion is bad (it usually is). Liberals focus on consequences, what would limit the number of unwanted pregnancies, and do most to protect women.

dbz77
"they ought to catch up with the rest of humanity."

Catch up with what? It's the immature who don't want to abstain and actually WAIT for the right person, the lifelong commitment. My fourteen year old son wouldn't spout something so immature and self centered. Sex isn't the latest video game, music video, movie, restaurant craze, entertainment technology.

If anything, you need to catch up with idea of adult consequences.

This attitude is EXACTLY what I DO NOT want my children to learn. I want them to learn about dignity, complete intimacy with another person for life that can only happen through marriage when the two beome one, the profound joy of years of living and loving the same true (but not perfect) spouse and being loved and treasured. Dogs are indiscriminate. True adults love and trust and are worthy of trust. For life. It is so worth the wait. Most things of value are.

According to dbz77
"Abstinence is refusal to try sex."

Sex is not a pair of jeans or a flavor of ice cream. Sex is a real-life decision that has consequences for the participants' futures.

I hope and pray that my children never have teachers who hold your views.

that should settle it for us all
"Had anyone suggested to me that I should remain sexually abstinent until that time (age 40), I would have found the idea preposterous."

surprise surprise.

Got it folks? dbz77 and Philip D. Harvey know what is best for your kids. Not your ideas or beliefs, or your parents, pastors', priests' or your gurus' ideas, thoughts or experiences should hold any merit, because dbz77 and Philip D. Harvey have declared them preposterous, for themselves, and therefore we better get in line.

That settles it for me. No abstinence talk tax money. Only safe sex how-to's tax money. So let it be written. And be real sure to not pay your taxes to support this late.

As usual, there's only room for one way. The Liberal Way.

Message received.

I Love Texas
Abstinence is refusal to try sex.

I can understand people wanting to abstain if they are immature teenagers.

If they are adults, with their friends and even their siblings having sex, let alone being married and making babies, they ought to catch up with the rest of humanity.

dbz77
dbz77 writes: Wednesday, May, 02, 2007 1:52 PM
"Just Don't Bother to Try"
That is what abstinence basically boils down to.

How does practicing abstinence boil down to 'just don't bother to try"?

"Just Don't Bother to Try"
That is what abstinence basically boils down to.

RE: Creighton Beryll
So, you equate allowing a child to ride a bicycle with allowing children to have sex? I believe old cliches have somehow gotten you mixed up.

But, then we "Puritans" have a different standard and understanding of morality than you "social liberals". As a parent who believes that actions have consequences both now and in eternity, it does not harm my children to teach them that sex "outside of marriage" is wrong for moral reasons as well as for physical and emotional reasons. However, to teach them otherwise does harm them and me as well, because I am responsible for what I teach and will answer for it someday. But social liberals do not think that it matters unless something bad happens like STDs or pregnancy.

You also have a misguided Puritanical view of social conservatives. Sex is not taught in churches that teach the Bible as being a sin because it is pleasurable. It seems as though you have been reading Hawthorne instead of the Bible? In most Bible-teaching churches today, sex is taught as a union between a married man and a woman and that the marriage bed is undefiled as the writer of Hebrews states.

CB - misplaced values
Creighton Beryll states: "I think that if there were no such thing as sexually-transmitted diseases, and contraception were 100% effective, social conservatives would still find some excuse to disapprove of teen sexuality."

Yes, you're absolutely right because it's not only STD's and unwanted pregancies we're concerned about. As I stated in an earlier post, we're concerned with the selling/giving up your soul and de-valuing your body in a non-committal/non-marital relationship.

"Why? Because at its root (heh), this disapproval is based on the Puritanical idea that sex is sinful because it's [ghasp!] pleasurable."

Far from the truth!! Sex is sinful outside of marriage! God ENCOURAGES sex within the confines of marriage.

Your bike riding example doesn't hold water. You're not giving up your soul, exposing yourself or being intimate while riding a bike.

Dear Daddyhill
RE: "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again but expecting different results."

You idiot!
You lefties have been preaching the message of the so-called "Sexual Revolution" for forty years now, the promise being that that "anything goes" mentality will create happy, self-contented human beings. And when this does not happen, what do you and your lefty buddies do? Call for ever more permissivism and more taxpayer dollars to fund it. Methinks your "definition" has backfired.

You Know What I Think?

I think that if there were no such thing as sexually-transmitted diseases, and contraception were 100% effective, social conservatives would still find some excuse to disapprove of teen sexuality.

Why? Because at its root (heh), this disapproval is based on the Puritanical idea that sex is sinful because it's [ghasp!] pleasurable.

Many times in online discussions about teen sex, I've pointed out that the use of condoms can prevent pregnancy and the transmission of STDs. But every time, someone would object: "B-but...condoms can BREAK!"

The strange thing is, no reasonably well-adjusted parent would consider forbidding his child to, say, ride a bicycle -- even though the consequences of being hit by a car while riding a bicycle are potentially far greater than unwanted pregnancy or contracting an STD. It just goes to show how irrational some people are about sexual matters.


-CB-

drivebyposting
"If a public school tried to demand parental involvement or a child would be dismissed today huge numbers of kids would be kicked out."

And then what? Currently, citizens would rather have the kids "incarcerated" in school than roaming the streets, so laws get passed to obligate schools to keep kids at school. Would you condone tying receiving benefits to a minor dependant's school attendance? Might work. Might get the kid beaten. Might promote phony home school. I think there is already some kind of intervention programs in place in most school districts. How do we make them effective?

"Conservatives constantly underestimate and miss the mark with respect to the parenting problem in this country."

I'm a conservative, mostly, and I think 99.9 per cent of kid's and school's problems are the parent's fault period. I just don't have a single clue, in the current school environment, as to how to get a parent to take responsibility for their kid if they don't want to. I think the key word there is "take". How does someone else make that happen?

As a father
what I cannot understand is how anyone who is a parent can think that their child is going to have sex no matter what is taught to them. That says a great deal about the amount of faith and trust and teaching that that parent has for their child(ren). I cannot say that my children will always make the right decisions, no one can. However, the parents and teachers who have so little faith in the children they are trying to raise by giving them condoms and saying, "Be safe" are the ones who do not want to accept responsibility for the problem. The children are not the problem; the values that are being instilled in the children are the problem. I know Christians and non-Christians who made choices to have sex outside of marriage and all faced consequences. But as a parent or teacher, I would hate to stand before God on the day of judgment and have to explain that I did what "I" thought was best for the children without even consulting what God had to say about it.

I, or my wife, will teach our daughters about the consequences (for life now and after life) of having sex outside of marriage but we will also teach them about the kind of people to be and the kind of person to look for when choosing a mate. And we will pray about it fervently. Even God understands that people make bad choices or Jesus would never have needed to come and die. But I will not have it on my conscience that I told my daughters or anyone else's child that sex outside of marriage is OK if you use a condom and I also don't want the teachers they have to promote it by handing them out in a classroom.

ctjaeger
Mainly because the way too many parents don't want to be bothered, especially the parents of the kids most "at risk". In a perfect world, parents would take care of it. We're stuck here in this world, and most folks seem to think that doing nothing isn't the right thing to do. I want it completely out of the schools too.

On the other hand, for a lot of kids, cable TV and the internet IS NOT where they should get their information. Can't just write 'em off.

Our choices aren't good.

Tubbs
"There is no reason to think that advocating "safe sex" means that you advocate a carte blanche free for all on every whim of human nature."

I'd say the evidence is all around us. The "anything goes and if you get in my way you are bad bad bad" attitude is alive and well, and growing, and promoted in most public schools, and most tv shows, movies and entertainment, where many teens get their general idea of "normal". Especially those kids whose parents have abdicated their role. Boy it would be too bad to tell 'em you don't have to do this to be happy and loved - you know, like Paris and Brittany maybe? Or those 'ho's in rap music? Let's teach em to aspire to that. No alternative offered, and if suggested, run screaming in fear.

All of us make mistakes while trying. Creating a climate / ideology of "just don't bother to try" is stupid, dangerous, selfish, and sometimes evil. There is a big difference. Struggling, even when failing sometimes, builds character. Never struggling builds self centered jerks, excusers, pseudo-victims and whiners. Leftist wanna-be-part-time-nanny ideologues encourage kids to not bother with any effort, except to get the condom on right. And the suicide rate will climb, drug use will climb, depression rates will increase. What a wonderful ideal for the world to aspire to.

Every single kid is better than that, given a chance and a little encouragement. People who don't want to offer the idea of abstinence are pathetic losers, living where misery LOVES company, and wants tax money to insure they are never alone.

Why
My question is why are we teaching either type of sex education in the schools? Isn't that a parents job? If you took the whole curriculum out of the schools and put it back in the home where it belongs, we could eliminate this entire debate.

My 18 year old has vowed abstinance. I'm amazed, but have supported her in that decision and she has abstained. We have talked about safe sex and other sex related issues, she decided to abstain and she is doing the sometimes hard work it takes to stay that way.

I'm tired of schools telling me that my kids have to spend valuable class time learning about sex. It is the role of parents to teach their children. Enough already.

Sex
Sex is a natural, normal part of adult life, necessary to measure up to others.

Yes, there are downsides to sex. But part of being an adult is being able to deal with the downsides - of work, of sex, of other parts of life.

wrong values
dbz77 states: "Abstinence-only sex ed does not prepare anyone for adult life."

Um, prepare anyone for adult life??? What about preparing one for self-control? What about teaching to value your body? What about informing those about the possible anguish, turmoil, sense-of-loss that one might feel by having unmarried sex???

Tallil2Long
Your daughter will not be a teenager FOREVER.

She will grow up, and when she grows up she will have sex with boys, unless she is a lezzie rug muncher or a loser. Abstinence-only sex ed does not prepare anyone for adult life.

It is Not Just the Left...
...most Americans oppose abstinence programs.

Schools might as well advocate HOMOSEXUALITY.

The Parent Problem
What's interesting about the abstinence only program is that it focuses on the teenager and the not parents responsible for instilling values and raising the kid.

The missing prong of the abstinence only program is the parent problem. Too many parents, conservative and liberal alike, don't take interest in their kids.

In fact, all one has to do is listen to the Mormon's perpetual "Family, It's about time." campaign that has been going on what seems like forever. The Mormon's also have a campaign called, "Parents, the anti-drug."

Too many parents are all too happy to let their children watch video games, hang out at malls and surf the internet just because it keeps the kid occupied.

Conservatives constantly underestimate and miss the mark with respect to the parenting problem in this country.

I live in liberal Silicon Valley where parents are just as disappointed in the school system as conservative parents and send their kids to private schools when they can.

Seems that it wouldn't be much of a stretch to get programs to reach out to derelict parents.

Conservatives who believe that school vouchers will solve this country's education problem underestimate the parent problem. Every private school has minimal requirements for parental involvement or the kid is asked to leave.

If a public school tried to demand parental involvement or a child would be dismissed today huge numbers of kids would be kicked out.

There are all kinds of liberal, Hollywood movies of the "Stand and Deliver" variety which lionize teachers who turn around problem schools by getting parents involved.

Liberal and conservative parents alike are guilty of being bad parents and not spending time with their kids.

In this day and age it is no longer reasonable for the public to expect the masses to go to church en mass in order to get parental messages out.

Like the Mormon's have been doing for years, conservatives need to launch a huge outreach program to reach all parents in this country, teaching them how to be parents and reminding them of their responsibilities. Just like going to church on Sunday, the program doesn't need to be run by the government. Conservatives churches need to set up parental counseling services and education country wide.

Improving the parenting of this country would go a long way towards improving teenage behavior, including abstinence.

Slippery Slope logical fallacy
"And if you cannot control your sexual urges, ladies and gentlemen, why control any?"

Acknowledging that teenagers oftentimes do not exhibit the same level of maturity, control, and judgment as adults do is a far cry from allowing people to kill police officers (as I love Texas' post suggests).

This is a logical fallacy. There is no reason to think that advocating "safe sex" means that you advocate a carte blanche free for all on every whim of human nature.

Tubbs
I think that's called state's rights. It's even in the Constitution. Was a good idea over 200 years ago. Great idea now.

Wish it were so.

Of course the problem is . . .
That liberals wouldn't be able to stand by and allow "conservative america" to wage any and every war they felt like.

And conservatives wouldn't be able to stand by and let "liberal america" have abortions and gay marriage.

It's exasperating.

Deacon and
"The real abstinence program begins at home and is a lived experience taught by parents."
"The left has worked hard in removing Americas strength, and responsibilities. " and "Control that does not require any personal strength, or responsibility."

And if you cannot control your sexual urges, ladies and gentlemen, why control any? Teacher expect you to hand in assignments you don't want to do? Quit school. Boss didn't worship your efforts on the job today? Quit. Somebody cut you off in traffic? Run him off the road. Girlfriend treat you badly? Gotta have that jewelery, car and wide screen? Can't play sports professionally and not a doctor, so selling drugs is a quick way to get what I I I want. If the kids at school pick on you and make you sad and angry, get a gun and shoot 'em. Fired unjustly? Kill somebody. Cops pick on you for just trying to make a living stealing or dealing drugs? Must be ok to kill them too. Can't get enough power and influence in the political arena? Must be ok to lie cheat steal and sacrifice American soldiers for the free advertising to garner votes. If you can't refrain from instant sexual gratification, what exactly about yourself do you control, what do you refrain from? If it means any self sacrifice of meme, probably not much.

We're never going to agree
I'm not that old, but I remember a time when it seemed like everybody watched the same news; listened to the same songs; lived in the same country.

Now it seems like there's the liberal country and the conservative country.

I don't really pine for the days when we all saw Back to the Future and everyone had seen the Thriller video. But these days of constant argument and strife are pretty depressing.

I think we should all go to our respective corners. Liberals take the coasts. Conservatives can have the rest.

If you want to have abstinence only programs, go for it! If you want to have abortions, go for it! Just do it in your own area of the country and let others live in peace.

mystic7
"I got news for you. 200 years ago, if a woman was 20 years old and not married she was considered weird and given all kinds of bad names like spinster and old maid."

TWO HUNDRED years ago? How about 35 years ago? In fact, there are plenty of girls who still believe that if they don't Get A Man before they graduate, they might just as well kill themselves to avoid the humiliation. Fortunately the fastest growing demographic in America is the unmarried women under 35, so the panic stricken girls group is dwindling.

When you consider that "children" remain at home into their thirties now, with Mommy catering to their every need (and just read back over the tremendous amount of howling over the Virginia Tech murder spree and count the number of times the men and women at that campus are referred to as 'children') it is not unrealistic to expect that "children" will abstain until they marry, whatever age those "children" may be. It is a family tradition at our house that "When You Are Under My Roof You Obey My Rules." And anybody who wants to engage in regular nookie can move out. It worked very well, as did Daddy's promise to kick us out the door to fend for ourselves if we ever came home pregnant. (Later on Mama confided that he would have done no such thing, but we were not inclined to bet on it back then.)

Just as an aside, when Ginsberg was rejected for the Supreme Court because he smoked pot in college, we did a survey in our office and discvered that of the 75 people (lawyers and staff) only two of us could have made the Supreme Court. My boss (who was not one of them) asked me why I had never smoked pot. "Because it is against the law," I said. "And because Daddy said if we went to jail we'd stay there." He was shocked. Go figure.

mystic7 writes:
"Unrealistic?
The only reason abstinence programs would be unrealistic is because teenagers are bombarded with sexuality everywhere else in their lives. How can you tell them to abstain and then hit them with sexual images on tv, magazines, the internet..."

Really. You really believe that?

What is the average age for marriage 200 years ago? 100 years ago? 50 years ago? 20 years ago? and today?

The average age for marriage in many urban areas today is approaching 30 years. That's the average. That means millions of Americans are waiting until their 30's to get married for the first time.

I got news for you. 200 years ago, if a woman was 20 years old and not married she was considered weird and given all kinds of bad names like spinster and old maid.

Expecting people to wait until they are in their 30's to have sex is historically unprecedented. The average life span not too many centuries ago was under 40 years.

I think what's interesting about these teenager charts is that they are small proof positive that all the "sky is falling" because of liberal immorality is bull****. Nothing is more boorish than conservatives claiming liberals are ruining this country.

1.) That discounts the fact that conservatives have been here all along and deserve some of the blame.

2.) Conservatives ignore signs like these that gains are being made today in straightening out this society.

In the link above, a liberal and progressive teenager wrote and was published by "The Nation", one of the most liberal rags going,

"The United States has the highest rate of teen pregnancy in the western industrialized world. Whatever is working -- abstinence education, comprehensive education, integrated education -- we need more of it."

Here is a liberal teenager expressing a conservative value. We need more effort to reduce teenage sex, teenage pregnancy and teenage abortions.

I see that as a good sign.







Artificial Control
With the sex education program, and all legislation that comes before the left, their first action is to play the human passion card. As you point out, "the left starts undermining abstinence programs.", with arguments, "Teens are going to have sex anyway, so the best response is to teach teens to protect themselves and encourage them to practice ‘safe' sex.".With statements like this the left is telling everyone the desire for sex cannot be controlled. They give legitimacy to a personal passion, has they tell the public to use artificial control. Control that does not require any personal strength, or responsibility. In turn strength, and responsibility, is guided by personal passion. The left has worked hard in removing Americas strength, and responsibilities. Their base is made up of individuals, businesses, and factions, that exist to legitimize, and fulfill self passion. The molding process starts in our schools in order to provide continued status, power, and wealth, for the left and their base. Their passions are fulfilled, thanks to artificially controlled personal passion.

We must support Abstinence programs.
Why?

Because it is the right thing to do. We can argue all day about the effectiveness of abstinence programs but at the end of the day it is still the right thing to do.

Why?

Because mankind is not an animal. It is natural for a dog to have many breeding partners. A dog is an animal. But man has the spirit of God and must act accordingly. If you do not believe in God then say so and I will understand why you think abstinence programs are a waste of time.

Should abstinence programs be the only program? People hear what they want to hear when they are ready to listen. The real abstinence program begins at home and is a lived experience taught by parents. The abstinence program taught in school is a crash course and will only affect those few people that are prepared to listen. A crash course in anything may suffer from quickly learned quickly forgotten but it is worth trying.

Proper sex education should include moral and humanistic presentation. To ignore the moral side is to make man into an animal and is a disservice to Christians.

A liberal teenager did better
"The truth is that the declines in teen pregnancy and birthrates predate the large investment of money in abstinence-only programs," Albert wrote.

Yeah that's right. Look carefully at those charts. The starting year is 1990, long before Bush funded the program or Clinton's big spike in 1996. That's right Bill Clinton. Bet you won't hear any conservatives giving Clinton credit for not vetoing that law that Republicans passed.

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20070430/wiretap1

Government gives out big money to abstinence programs

The federal government has been supporting abstinence-only programming since the Reagan administration. But in 1996, the amount of support took a big leap. Through the Title V Welfare Reform Act, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services now grants abstinence-only funds to the states, which then distribute the money. California is the only state that has never accepted Title V funds. Title V defines abstinence through an eight-point definition that includes statements such as: "Sexual activity outside of the context of marriage is likely to have harmful psychological and physical effects." In 2000 the federal government introduced a new, controversial stream of funding, Community-Based Abstinence Education (CBAE) grants. CBAE grants allow the federal government to bypass the state decision-making process and give directly to community organizations.

The opponents' most vocal complaint against federal funding is that there is no substantial, scientific evidence that abstinence-only education is making teens safer. Here is another serious concern: Many Crisis Pregnancy Centers (CPC) are also receiving funds. Since the '70s, CPCs have dissuaded pregnant women from aborting. But it wasn't until the CPCs developed abstinence programming that they qualified for millions of dollars of federal funding. Opponents, such as SIECUS, claim that many of these organizations are dangerous conduits of false and fear-based information and a religious message.

As an example, SIECUS points to the Alpha Center in Sioux Falls, S.D. It received close to $300,000 in CBAE funds in 2005. The center's navigable website has a medical and professional tone -- but misleading information. The passage it provides on suction-aspiration, the most commonly used method of abortion, refers to a fetus as a baby, a doctor as an abortionist, and implies great risk to the woman, which is inaccurate. "The abortionist then inserts a hollow plastic tube with a knife-like edge into the uterus. The suction tears the baby's body into pieces."

"The truth is that the declines in teen pregnancy and birthrates predate the large investment of money in abstinence-only programs," Albert wrote. "Moreover, we simply do not know -- nor does anyone -- exactly how the investment in abstinence-only programs has played out; whether it has had an impact on the national level is not known and probably unknowable."

Kathy
One thing is for sure, if we GIVE UP, America certainly is doomed. I don't recall anything in the bible about GIVING UP. Do you?

lokietek
what if they do have sex? Let me guess they will listen to you only and you will be with them 24 hours a day , 7 days a week.

Leftist pigs?

Why not tell them you are against premarital relations and that no good can come of it. Their faith should be the determining factor when facing a decision about giving in to their physical desires. If they cannot control themselves they should at least be aware of methods to keep you from becoming a grandma.

You have no idea on what it's like to be a teenage boy.. I know your kids are different than anyother to walk the face of the earth.

AudiR10 is right on!
I couldn't agree with you more.
As someone who was abstinent until marriage, I have happily been non-abstinent since 1975.

I can't believe the stupidity of those of you who advocate that teens will have sex no matter what. Having reared five children to adulthood who abstained, may I suggest that what takes place in the home is more important than what takes place in Washington.

Nevertheless, for those whose homes have some of the stupid parents above, at least we need to promote a full program of A-B-C.

For a real eye-opener, read the book, UNPROTECED, by Dr. Anonymous (Written by a psychiatrist at UCLA, it came out in November). It details the failure of the "free-sex, safe-sex" philosophy on college campuses. Teens will respond to instruction with sound reasoning. Why else do we educate them at all?

Abstinence until marriage enhances life in so many other ways as well, as has been noted above. Abstinence doesn't just work; it's the only thing that works, 100% of the time.

Timing
The decline in sexual activity started in the late 80's or early 90's depending on the statistic. Abstinence Only had its huge surge under Bush so it could not be the cause of the declines.

Hippie Morality
Back in The (Real) Sixties, the whole idea of "free" love was promulgated by people who were just basically exercising Toddler Liberation -- pulling down their pants in public because that shocked Mommy. Eventually it evolved into today's belief that "You Have To Have Sex Or You'll Die." This in turn has led to us being attacked day and night by advertisements for "Erectile Dysfunction" and bombarded by spam mail for thousands of cures for this dread disease -- worse by far than AIDS, smallpox, Ebola or radiation poisoning judging by how much effort and attention is spent on the "cure". Because, you see, YOUHAVETOHAVESEXORYOUWILLDIE. DIE! DIE!

Of course we girls who went to Catholic school when it was run by nuns knew this was absolutely untrue. Here were a group of women who never had sex and they were all alive and well. But today it's hard to find people who are willing to go on record as being abstinent and still living full and rewarding lives.

When my kids were in school, Jane Fonda came through Georgia on a whistle stop tour campaigning for Condoms Uber Alles. She made a lot of waves until it was revealed that she was being bankrolled by Durex. To the guy sponsored by hammers, every problem is a nail....

As for why teen births are dropping, we all noticed that in Georgia the unwed birth rate dropped 40% right after the law was changed so that if you had another baby while on welfare, you would NOT get a bigger cheque. People who work for a living don't get a raise every time they drop another tot; why should welfare queens? Another thing that helped considerably was tying the Goodies to the mother providing the name of the father, and the father being held responsible. (A sneaky way of doing this was to catch him in the hospital when he wsa in Bragging Mode and get him to admit paternity.)

Cancel the free ride and the kids will stop climbing on board the Gravy Train. Very simple very easy.

For the record, I have been abstinent since the early 1990s and I am in no danger of imminent death.

Unrealistic?
The only reason abstinence programs would be unrealistic is because teenagers are bombarded with sexuality everywhere else in their lives. How can you tell them to abstain and then hit them with sexual images on tv, magazines, the internet...

Abstinence
I have been celibate since 1993..It is a part of being a Shaolin Grandmaster...controlling sexual output provides focus and power in life...also keeps me looking 30 years younger...Grandmaster Ro Wa-Ken Tal Kung-Fu 5 Forms PS I'm planning on ending it soon with a committed relationship.

In response to aurorawatcher
You left out an important point. Not so very many years ago, kids considering sexual activity understood that there would be required to accept responsibility for the consequences (pregnancy).
Then the idea became popular that it was permissable for a woman to kill her offspring if she didn't feel like raising it. Suddenly kids realized they didn't HAVE to grow up. They could meddle in the adult realm of sexual relations and still continue to exercise adolescent avoidance of responsibility, simply by having an abortion. And more to the point, one paid for by others.

Far too many parents then bought into the idea that any action whose consequences were probably avoidable must be right and good and acceptable. That's what comes of having no moral standard.

In response to Mr. D
Indeed. My graduating class of 1987 made it all the way from First Grade with not a single pregnancy nor a single dropout. And the few girls who were known to reliably 'put out' were in much demand because the majority just didn't seem like easy marks for casual sex.

Apparently we were 'superhuman'. Apparently the passage of twenty years has changed the human race so much that many liberals think proper behavior is now impossible for young people.

In response to bryce
"I know nothing of you or your daughter so this comment is not directed at you or her. But, with all due respect, if the 65 year old man spearheading the President's abstinance program can't live up to its' stictures, it is frankly naive to expect that others, especially teenagers with raging hormones, will. This not a moral issue, it is a matter of public safety."

So acts committed by one man relegate the entire human race to the level of the lowest common denominator? Your objection makes no sense.

This IS a matter of public safety. Which is safest for your child: to start having sex at, say, the age of 15 when the average child is not exactly at the height of mature decision-making ability; or to wait until more mature and involved in a permanent, committed relationship?

It is demeaning one's own children to suggest they cannot help but be whores to their hormones. It is incredibly pessimistic to suggest that young adults cannot hold out for REAL, lasting relationships. If one has ANY shred of faith in one's own children, and in mankind, it must be acknowledged that it is reasonable to train children properly and expect that most can and will profit from that training. The only people I have heard suggesting otherwise seem to put children in the relative moral position of dogs.

My kids are not dogs. They will undoubtedly make mistakes, but they can be taught to do the best thing at least most of the time, and thereby reduce the risk of catastrophic results. Perhaps more liberals should have that kind of faith in their kids, and make that kind of loving, consistent effort to teach them the best way.

But let me not be misunderstood. I think kids should be taught about safer-sex methods, also. NOT because they will inevitably act like dogs, nor to encourage them to act like dogs, nor to imply that it's okay to act like dogs; but because if they make mistakes, it were best if the consequences could be mitigated. And mitigation through condom use is infinitely preferable to abortion.

Daddyhill
So moralists have been preaching abstinence for "generations" with no results? When I graduated from a suburban Southern California high school in the early '60s just one (1) girl out of my graduating class of 350 got pregnant.

It worked then, and that wasn't "generations" ago. It isn't working now because fools like you have abandoned even the pretext of morality. The problem, of course, really starts with parents, but their jobs are made immeasurably more difficult by the corrupt culture that dominates American life today.

And, yes, gotta say it, the Left loves it. The more corrupt things become that happier liberals are, like pigs in a mud pit.

Presuppositions
One of the biggest presuppositions employed by people today is that teenagers have "raging hormones" they simply "cannot control" and they WILL have sex. If 47 percent of them aren't having sex when this is the major presupposition being taught in school sex education classes -- well, I'd say some of them aren't getting the message. They aren't having sex and that's a good thing! I'm thinking this is probably the result of good parenting, proactive Sunday School teachers and kids like my daughter, who when she discovered that her 15-year-old friend had become pregnant said "You're kidding me! You trusted your future to a piece of latex?" She and her friend, now with a 10-month-old baby, are doing what they can to educate their friends in a town where there is no abstinance education outside the local church or Christian school. Mikki's mom thought she was doing a pretty good job of re-educating her daughter after the public school was done, but the message she got was "you can't deprive yourself of sex, so use a condom and all will be well." She's just lucky all she "caught" was pregnancy. Mikki now says "I trusted my future to a piece of latex and my future now includes raising a child and fending off guys who now think I'm too stupid to say no. I'm not and I do say no! You should too!"

The statistics speak for themselves. Forty-seven percent of high school teens aren't sexually active. When I was in high school it was about 59 percent. In my mother's day, she estimated that about 10 percent of the kids in her school were sexually active before graduation. What was the difference? They knew, living so close to the farm, that sex resulted in pregnancy and that pregnancy was a life-altering experience. In my day, our parents were still teaching us that we didn't have to have sex, that we could wait. Nowadays, the schools say there is something pathologically wrong with you if you don't have sex. I know teachers who think that any kid who isn't "doing it" ought to be in counseling to find out why -- obviously there's some child sexual abuse in their background. It couldn't be that they believe that God wants them to wait until they're married or that they don't want diseases that can kill or spay them. No, it's just not natural for teens to control themselves!

It is natural, it is possible and it is wise. Condoms allow sperm to pass through 23 percent of the time in laboratory safety checks. Read the companies' own literature if you don't believe me. This is in the LAB where the condom has not spent weeks in a hot wallet or been put on hastily in the front seat of a Geo. Is it any wonder that doctors call couples who use condoms for contraception "parents"? The thing is, a sperm is a lot bigger (about 90 times bigger) than an HIV virus, so I wonder what the permeability ratio is for that? They don't publish that, which is why my daughter won't be having sex with a condom which means she won't -- if she's smart -- be having sex at all until that whole marriage and monogamy thing is taken care of.

Note that 47 percent of teens nationwide aren't having sex, but that the percentage of abstinence is several times higher for students enrolled in one abstinence-based program.

Seems to me that if you approach any problem with a presupposition, you're likely to skew the results to the answer you presuppose to be true. Select a small number of programs that are just getting started and cream the results and, viola, "abstinence programs are a failure." But, what will happen if they do a larger, nation-wide study of programs that have been in place for several years? That way younger girls are dating older boys (the common pattern) and they've both been through the same program, meaning they're both on the same page, sexually speaking. Will that change the results? We don't know because it hasn't been done yet, but it will be interesting to find out. I submit the prediction that the rate of teen sexual activity will drop as truthful information about the risks of even condom-use sex are finally out there for the world to know. Just a prediction, but I have a gut feeling it's a good one.

talli2long
I know nothing of you or your daughter so this comment is not directed at you or her. But, with all due respect, if the 65 year old man spearheading the President's abstinance program can't live up to its' stictures, it is frankly naive to expect that others, especially teenagers with raging hormones, will. This not a moral issue, it is a matter of public safety.



In response to YouMakeMeLaugh
"If you don't think your teenage daughter is having sex with that boy down the street, they should remove her from your home. There are some serious MENTAL HEALTH issues going on there. What? Tell your neighbors it must be that whole "Immaculate Conception" thing."

I can't imagine having such a dark view of humankind.

You see, I KNOW my 16 year old daughter is not having sex with the boy down the street. You know why?
Unlike so many Progressives, I teach my daughter that promiscuity is sinful, contrary to our loving God's plan for our lives; that it is risky; and that, compared to marriage with the right person, it is unprofitable and meaningless.
I explained to her that I had sex with some girls before I met her Mom, and that quite frankly I'd just as soon not have. I'd much rather have just waited until I met Michelle, my wife of (so far) 18 years. And, having seen our relationship in action for years, she understands its worth. Those former relationships were worth nothing. I explained to her that you don't have to make yourself a plaything for another's egotistical gratification in order to find lasting love.
And you know what? I TALK to her. I LISTEN to her. I demonstrate to her every day that I love her and want what's best for her. I show her how the things we teach her are intended not to reduce her independence, or joy, or individuality, but rather to help her to the point where she is a happy, productive adult who need not regret past decisions.
And her mother does all these things, also (better than i, undoubtedly).

And that's not all. I spend time with my daughter. I know her boyfriend. I know his family. His parents and I talk daily and spend time together.

If you think teens can't be raised and supervised properly, you haven't ever tried. And that is a sad thing.

Tobias was hiring professionals
so at least there's a good chance he got C right!

why attack absitinance programs?
Well how about this? The author is apparently unaware of the fact that Randall Tobias, the President's point man on the ABC program...that's A for abstinance, B for be faithfull, C for condom use...and a married man to boot, recently resigned after his name came up on the client list of a D.C. escort service.

Now you tell me, if the man who has spent the last three years lecturing third world nations about controlling AIDS by means of adstinance and fidelity can't adhere to the policies the admin is espousing, how can it possibly be viewed as effective policy.

Oh, by the way, Tobias was also the head of the President's task force on global prostiution.

Just another example of the this administration's penchant for valuing 'loyal Bushies' instead of suitability and competence. 'Good job Brownie', Miers for SCOTUS, Rumsfeld, now Wolfowitz and Tobias. Yikes!!!

Issues of morality…


Thanks for the data. When the data disagrees with our presuppositions then we will disregard it. After all since you do not agree with us, what could you possibly know that is of worthy of debate? So goes the logic of the Left, blinded by their own arrogance, like blind men leading the blind.

In a culture that cannot agree about the morality of abortion, there is no hope of agreement on abstinence sex education. Why is there no agreement on issues regarding morality?

We agree with Ms Coulter in her latest book that radical naturalism is the religion of the Left. Show us a liberal who is not a darwinite. Their local churches are the public funded schools. Their seminaries are the halls of academia. We have it on good authority that, ‘Darwinism has nothing at all to say about morality.’ The Left will not allow what they consider to be false doctrine into their places of worship.

Abstinence assumes that men are more than animals; that sex is much more than the gratification of selfish impulses. Abstinence might even cause young people to think about morality and sin and the meaning of selfless love; that is, doing what is good for someone else. That could even lead them to read the Bible.

The Left wants to continue to suppress the truth because they will never admit that their policies based on their false religion have failed and continue to fail. Show me a concerned parent with a school voucher that would not use it to give their child the advantage of a school environment that teaches morality. No parent given the choice wants their children to be immoral.


Just my thoughts
JoJo, Lilly, YouMakeMeLaugh, et al:

Fine. Tell you what. Since you think abstinence training is SO terrible and ineffective, let your own daughters sleep around as much as they with.
I'm teaching my daughters to abstain until they are married.

We'll see which of our kids get STDs, AIDS or pregnant. You see, studies in recent years have revealed some VERY unpleasant things about the efficacy of condom use. But abstaining from sex is still 100% effective. My daughters will most likely be among the 57% NOT having intercourse in their teenage years (NOT getting pregnant, NOT getting diseases), because of their mother's and my training.
Your children will most likely be in the 43% being dangerously promiscuous because you seemingly despise the notion of abstinence. Good luck. If your children do get caught up in misfortune, you will quite likely blame somebody other than yourselves.

The truly ludicrous part of this is the insistence that 'kids will have sex no matther what'. If training programs CANNOT influence childrens' behavior, why do we spend do much money on antismoking campaigns? Hypocrisy.

Why moralists can't be scientists
Definition: Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again but expecting different results.

What Ms. Crouse and her colleagues at the Left Behind Institute, the knownothingtank for Confused Women of America, simply will not acknowledge is that no single approach to sexual behavior among teenagers will work everywhere all the time. Information also available from the National Center for Health Statistics, not cited by Ms. Crouse, is that a consensus has emerged among those who are actually immersed in this area that programs advocating both abstinence AND correct, consistent use of contraceptives can result in postponement of sexual activity and prevention of pregnancy/STDs. This, by the way, points to something that Ms. Crouse failed to mention--along with the decreases in prevalence of sexual activity, teen pregnancy, and teen abortions, the National Center for Health Statistics also reported consistent increases in condom use among all age/sex/ethnic groups over the same time period. You can't leave a statistic like that out of the equation and expect to be taken seriously.

American moralists have been preaching Abstinence! Abstinence! for generations, and the results have always been the same. Now, after ten years of even louder preaching and investment of millions of dollars in abstinence-only programs, the U.S. still has the highest rate of teen pregnancy in the developed world. For a glimpse of why this is so, contrast our experience with that of Finland (http://www.euro.who.int/document/e68275.pdf). You remember Finland, don't you Ms. Crouse? That country that was actually invaded by the Soviet Union a while ago and thus is hardly a hotbed of godless bolshevism?

The really sad part of all this is that far too few people in the U.S. are taking the obvious step, now being emphasized by the World Health Organization in helping the newly independent countries of eastern Europe to overcome their epidemics of teen pregnancy and STDs, of getting TEENAGERS THEMSELVES involved in figuring out what approaches will work best. Sanctimonious preaching and scaremongering by adults has always been and always will be ignored by young people, who after all actually have some rights when it comes to deciding when and with whom to have sex. As Ms. Crouse's table shows, while the trend is downwards, as of 2005 nearly half of all high school students had initiated sexual activity. In other words, KIDS ARE DOING IT, as they always have been. Pretending that it ever was or ever will be otherwise fits the definition of insanity stated above. That's why Ms. Crouse and those who think like her will be Left Behind.

hackamore
so you are an expert on liberals?
exactly how many liberals do you know.
how many did you survey to come up with your conclusions that they all think and act alike.
is that true of conservatives also, that they all think and act alike?


sheesh

liberals don't oppose abstinence they simply belive it should not be the only thing they are taught.

are you telling me no conservatives engaged in pre-marital sex.
what a laugh,
we know many of the presidential candidates are serial adulterers.
i guess the abstinence only doesn't work with conservatives huh.

Janice, do you not understand
that Liberals oppose abstinence because it goes against their humanist philosphy of satisfying every human need here on other? Teenagers "need" sex and no traditional hangups should deny them sex.

Point of Information
I have read, but have no first-hand knowledge, that a teacher in an Abstinence Only school is not allowed to give contraception information even if a student is sexually active and specifically requests the information, and also that this ban extends to all teachers in the school and not just the Abstinence course teacher. Can anyone confirm?

Abstinence ok, but not enough...
Look, let's say a child was growing up in a place that was totally surrounded by dangerous rivers: Would it make more sense to say "Stay away from the water" or say "Stay away from the water, but if you fall in, this is how you swim"? I have to imagine that the logical among us would say the second approach makes more sense. Obviously, the safest sex is no sex at all, but what is the harm in teaching about safety precautions? In what world of twisted logic do safety precautions equate to endorsements of dangerous behavior?
It might make sense to acknowledge reality at some point and say that all teenagers, even the best behaved, are prone to some level of rebellion and are not above making the occasional poor choice. Wouldn't it be better to prepare kids for those contingencies?

Grumpy
I've thought about this, and I suspect that the drop in birthrates is due to several things; For one thing, I think that the whole idea has lost it's appeal among high-risk teenagers, probably social pressures and media influence has gone some way in making it seem more like a choice for losers. Most of these are kids who didn't get pregnant by accident, they know what makes babies and for a long time it had a social cache. I think probably they're just more careful now.

My daughter in law was a high-risk pregnancy nurse for years and said that below the age of 13, pregnancy is usually the result of incest or rape, so I would be curious to know what age group reflects the drop in pregnancy rates.




Condoms have their place
No dirty jokes, please...

The drop in birthrates and abortions both exceed the drop in sexual activity. Think maybe the kids who aren't getting or buying the abstinence approach are at least getting the safe sex message?

Also, the abstinence message might play better if we could have an AIDS Czar who didn't patronize outcall massage services, also...

Celtic-dragon
I totally agree. Aside from the "studies" that Crouse is putting out there, all you have to do is talk to a large population of teenagers to get the real story.

Second point: Why does Crouse feel that her fondness for abstinence programs can only be expressed as an attack on Democrats?

It is another example of my general observation that Liberal Blogs (the good ones) are almost always more likely to just discuss events and ideas; conservative blogs only talk about liberals. I think that if the headlines of these columns are worded to form a attack on liberals, no one will actually read them.

Janice is delusional
I wonder why anybody really pays attention to this tripe. The reputable studies I've seen don't reflect her figures at all...and surveys of youths belonging to chastity clubs reveal they put off sexual contact on the average of only six months.

Abstinance education is a failure. There is nothing conservative about pie in the sky wishful thinking.

Makes the Heart Grow Fonder
The humorist in me says that those of us who strongly support abstinence programs -- and I do -- need to come up with better taglines. How about "Abstinence makes the heart grow fonder"? Or, "Abstinence: It Means More than Just Saying 'No!'"

On my site (click on name above) I'm showing how to make conservative principles appealing to a majority of Americans, something we need to win elections and have our philosophy prevail. Please come and join in. Comments always welcome.

steve
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