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Friday, December 22, 2006
Janet M. LaRue :: Townhall.com Columnist
When Will Bisexuals Drag Homosexuals out of Polygamy Closet?
by Janet M. LaRue
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Will the Dems' health care Christmas Present to America be an improvement or detriment to our health care system?


In 1972 the National Coalition of Gay Organizations demanded the “repeal of all legislative provisions that restrict the sex or number of persons entering into a marriage unit; and the extension of legal benefits to all persons who cohabit regardless of sex or numbers.” So why aren’t homosexual activists leading the battle to legalize polygamy?

Maybe they’re smart enough to understand the visceral reaction most of us would feel if we knew their goal and playbook. Maybe the rest of us would get our backs up if we stopped believing it’s just about equal treatment of “two loving and committed same-sex couples.”

Maybe a whole lot of us need to care more about morality and the greater good of society and children in particular than we do about our self-centered obsessions about how “fair” and “loving” we’re perceived to be.

Consider just a few tidbits from major players:

At a [1999] conference at the University of London called “Legal Recognition of Same-Sex Marriage: A Conference on National European and International Law,” one of the main themes of discussion was whether marriage should exist at all. The attendees laid out strategies to circumvent each nation’s democratic process via the judicial system to force governments to sanction and accept same-sex marriage. There was open talk about ultimately abolishing marriage so adults could be free to pursue any sexual relationship they want with no legal restrictions whatsoever. (Alliance Defense Fund, “The Homosexual Agenda: Excerpt 2”: http://www.alliancedefensefund.org/issues/traditionalfamily/default.aspx?cid=3483).

It is also a chance to wholly transform the definition of family in American culture. It is the final tool with which to dismantle all sodomy statutes, get education about homosexuality and AIDS into public schools, and, in short, usher in a sea change in how society views and treats us. (Michelangelo Signorile, “I Do, I Do, I Do, I Do, I Do,” OUT magazine, May 1996, p. 30).

“Generations of radicals have imagined a world in which the norm-making rules of matrimony are suspended. ... Down the road, we might see groups of people sharing the custody of children. …” (Richard Goldstein, “The Radical Case for Gay Marriage,” Village Voice, Sept. 3-9, 2003, p. 34).

In 2003, the U.S. Supreme Court dropped a cluster bomb in Lawrence v. Texas. For the first time in its history, a majority of the Court rejected morality as a legitimate justification for a state criminal law. The Court declared unconstitutional a Texas law that prohibited homosexual sodomy in the privacy of the home.

Same-sex “marriage” advocates condemned the “scare tactics” of those who sounded the alarm regarding the threat that Lawrence posed to state marriage laws, including polygamy. The Lawrence bomblets began detonating and continue.

Less than five months after Lawrence, the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court ordered the State Legislature to allow homosexuals to marry, favorably citing Lawrence. The court reasoned:

“The history of constitutional law ‘is the story of the extension of constitutional rights and protections to people once ignored or excluded.’ … This statement is true in the area of civil marriage as in any other area of civil rights. … As a public institution and a right of fundamental importance, civil marriage is an evolving paradigm.” Goodridge v. Department of Public Health (Mass. 2003).

Polygamists are pushing the paradigm by arguing that if Heather can have two mommies, why not two mommies and a daddy? And come to think about it, aren’t two mommies and a daddy “better” than no mommy or no daddy?

A Utah husband and wife filed suit after being denied a marriage license for an additional wife. They argued that the Lawrence decision should be read to require Utah to permit polygamous marriage. The district court disagreed:

Giving the required deference to the Supreme Court’s own stated limitations of its Lawrence holding, this court cannot hold that Lawrence can be read to require the State of Utah to give formal recognition to a public relationship of a polygamous marriage. Contrary to Plaintiffs’ assertion, the laws in question here do not preclude their private sexual conduct. They do preclude the State of Utah from recognizing the marriage of Plaintiff G. Lee Cook to Plaintiff J. Branson as a valid marriage under the laws of the State of Utah. Bronson v. Swenson (D. Utah 2005).

The court, however, noted the tendency for laws to “evolve”: “Plaintiffs refer to the dissent of Justice Scalia in Lawrence, where he contends that the majority’s ruling will call into question state laws against bigamy, among other statutes that are based upon moral choices. … That is likely to be true.”

The case is now before the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Tenth Circuit. The Goodridge majority took it upon themselves to redefine common law marriage yet, arbitrarily limited its new definition to two persons: “We construe civil marriage to mean the voluntary union of two persons as spouses to the exclusion of all others.”

The three dissenting justices in Goodridge argued that the Commonwealth’s marriage laws were gender neutral and did not discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation. Justice Spina wrote:

The marriage statutes do not disqualify individuals on the basis of sexual orientation from entering into marriage. All individuals, with certain exceptions not relevant here, are free to marry. Whether an individual chooses not to marry because of sexual orientation or any other reason should be of no concern to the court.”

The dissenters reasoned that by extending marriage to same-sex couples, the state’s laws against polygamy and incestuous marriages would fall.

The majority disagreed:

Similarly, no one argues that the restrictions on incestuous or polygamous marriages are so dependent on the marriage restriction that they too should fall if the marriage restriction falls. Nothing in our opinion today should be construed as relaxing or abrogating the consanguinity or polygamy prohibitions of our marriage laws. … Rather, the statutory provisions concerning consanguinity or polygamous marriages shall be construed in a gender neutral manner. Id. at 969.

Where does that leave bisexuals? How long until there’s a bisexual ménage a trois before the Massachusetts courts asking why bisexuals are “second-class” citizens in the Commonwealth?

Since the Goodridge court decided that the Commonwealth “failed to identify any constitutionally adequate reason for denying civil marriage to same-sex couples,” how likely is it that it will be able to articulate a constitutionally adequate reason to deny marriage to three people, especially when the court held that it may not treat some citizens as “second-class.”

How will the court rationalize that limiting marriage to two people can be applied in a “gender neutral manner” to bisexuals, when it refused to recognize that the prohibition against same-sex marriage applied in a gender neutral manner” to two men or two women regardless of “sexual orientation”? The court will be hard pressed to assert anything other than its own moral code, which it claimed it couldn’t’ do in Goodridge.

Justice Marshall, nonetheless, iced the slope for legalizing polygamy based on the best interests of children:

In this case, we are confronted with an entire, sizeable class of parents raising children who have absolutely no access to civil marriage and its protections because they are forbidden from procuring a marriage license. It cannot be rational under our laws, and indeed it is not permitted, to penalize children by depriving them of State benefits because the State disapproves of their parents’ sexual orientation.

Already, an estimated 30,000 to 80,000 families are living polygamously in the United States, including hundreds of Laotian Hmongs in Minnesota and thousands of fundamentalist Mormons in Arizona and Utah. (Cheryl Wetzstein, “The Marriage of Many: If homosexuals can ‘wed,’ will polygamists be next,” Washington Times, Dec. 11, 2005, p. A01).

Given the number of children in the average polygamous household, there’s no doubt that many more children are “deprived” of state benefits because of anti-bigamy laws than are children in homosexual households.

A May 2005 Gallup poll found that 92 percent of Americans oppose the practice, which is illegal in all 50 states. But if Americans can be convinced that polygamy, like same-sex marriage or civil unions is about “fairness,” opposition can be expected to erode, once homosexual activists come out of the closet in support of the right of bisexuals’ to marry an individual of each sex.

Conservative commentator Charles Krauthammer asked: “If marriage is redefined to include two men in love, on what possible principled grounds can it be denied to three men in love?” (Wetzstein).

“It’s not a case people can sniff at,” said Richard G. Wilkins, a law professor at Brigham Young University. “If you can’t require monogamy, how in the world can you deny the claims of the polygamists, particularly when it’s buttressed by the claim of religion?” (“Utah Polygamy Ban Challenged,” CBSNews.com, Jan. 27, 2004: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/01/27/national/main596268.shtml).

After Canada legalized same-sex marriage, its government launched a study to look at the ramifications of polygamy.

Every homosexual organization claims to be fighting for the rights of bisexuals. For example, the Human Rights Campaign (HRC), The Gay & Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation (GLAAD), the Association for Gay, Lesbian, and Bisexual Issues in Counseling (AGLBIC), the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force and Lambda Legal Defense and Education Fund.

Lambda’s “Mission Statement” states: “Lambda Legal is a national organization committed to achieving full recognition of the civil rights of lesbians, gay men, bisexuals, transgender people and those with HIV thought impact litigation, educations and public policy work.”

As a guest on Laura Ingraham’s radio show a few years ago, I debated Evan Wolfson, former project director of Lambda Legal. Relying on Lambda’s expressed concern for the rights of bisexuals, I challenged Wolfson to admit that legalizing same-sex marriage would lead to legalizing polygamy. My questions, which Wolfson dismissed as a scare tactic, were: If polygamy isn’t legalized, how will a bisexual marry just one person without denying his or her “bisexual orientation”? Otherwise, in order to marry, won’t bisexuals have to make a gender choice in a spouse and then engage in adultery in order to fulfill who they are as bisexuals?

Wolfson, now director of Freedom to Marry, says in his book, Why Marriage Matters America, Equality, and Gay People’s Right to Marry: “Civil unions.... are unequal in the security, clarity, and status they provide, unequal in the legal protections that flow from them, unequal in fact as well as in name—and names or words, of course, matter.”

Wolfson is critical of the recent New Jersey Supreme Court ruling: “But I’m not satisfied because the high court opened the door to equality but didn’t finish the job [because it referred the decision to the legislature]. There’s only one way to provide equality and that is by equal treatment.”

How long will bisexuals accept less than “equal treatment” while homosexuals continue to diss civil unions and push for the right to “marry” in other states? Who thinks bisexuals don’t want the same “legitimacy,” “acceptance” and “affirmation” for bisexual behavior that legalized polygamy will provide? How long will they wait for their homosexual “allies” to help them achieve the equal right to “marry” the persons of their choice?

Judge Donald G. Collester Jr., of the New Jersey court of appeals voted to extend marriage to same-sex couples. He said his colleagues exaggerated the ‘specter of polygamy.’ The homosexual plaintiffs ‘do not question the binary aspect of marriage; they embrace it,’ Judge Collester said. Moreover, he said, despite myriad briefs filed in the case, ‘no polygamists have applied” for marriage rights.” (Wetzstein).

It’s notable that in the polygamy cases filed since the Lawrence decision, the plaintiffs have been represented by or supported by amicus briefs by the ACLU or one of its state chapters, but not by a homosexual rights organization.

Truth be told, homosexual rights organizations aren’t pushing for the right of bisexuals to marry two people because it would hurt the cause of extending same-sex marriage to other states. Wolfson is adamant that homosexuals should never settle for civil unions, which makes the so-called concern for full equality of bisexuals a very distant prospect.

Homosexual rights leaders and their allies insist that the “slippery slope” to polygamy argument is a rhetorical dodge, while no doubt giving their bisexual friends a wink-wink. According to Wetzstein, Evan Wolfson still thinks “It’s a “scare tactic.”

It makes you wonder how long bisexuals will be content riding in the back of the homosexual marriage bus, and how long before another activist court pushes marriage down the slippery slope to ultimate destruction.

When society and its courts think “fairness” and “tolerance” trump morality, the laws of God and what’s best for children, what will stop polygamists from marrying? Why limit it to three, “loving and committed” people? Why not two adults and a consenting minor? Why not a dozen polyamorists?

[I]n former days the free-thinker was a man who had been brought up in ideas of religion, law, and morality, and only through conflict and struggle came to free-thought; but now there has sprung up a new type of born free-thinkers who grow up without even having heard of principles of morality or of religion, of the existence of authorities, who grow up directly in ideas of negation in everything, that is to say, savages. Leo Tolstoy, War and Peace.

Who doesn’t know that you have to hide the playbook if your goal is to negate marriage by taking a duped and desensitized society down the slope slide by slide?

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About The Author
Jan LaRue is Senior Legal Analyst with the American Civil Rights Union; former Chief Counsel at Concerned for Women; Legal Studies Director at Family Research Council; and Senior Counsel for the National Law Center for Children and Families. Be the first to read Janet LaRue's column. Sign up today and receive Townhall.com delivered each morning to your inbox.
Brilliant article
That was so convincing, I almost divorced my 6 extra wives but I live in California and I'm sure it's only a matter of time before we get our state mandated goodies re-distibution checks! Ninth Circuit anyone?(Once the kids get old enough,we're gonna start marryin' 'em like crazy.I figure we should be pullin' down somewhere in the neighborhood of eleven to twelve G's a month once we get this thing rollin'.)

"Rights"?
Somehow it stikes me that the government should have left marriage up to churches. Our former governer, Ronald Reagan, hit it right on the head when he referred to the government "being" the problem. But the government did get involved and our entire culture is going through the mangler.

Marriage already a Civil Union
Echoing California Gentry's sentiments here, once the State got involved ...

… once government assumed the authority to grant permission to marry (licensing), to say who could or could not get married (blood tests, interracial -- oh yeah, that one got overturned*, Jack and John, Jack and Jill and Mary, etcetera), extending legal recognition and privileges to married couples, granting and legally recognizing divorces, etcetera …

… the State took marriage out of the Churches and made it a Civil matter. Consequently, marriage is, civilly, no longer a religious issue and Churches no longer gets to define it or the terms thereof.

* Interracial Marriage Bans: http://www.filibustercartoons.com/marriage.htm



definitions matter
I'll gladly use this article in my next composition class when I teach "definitional argument." This is too good to be true for class discussion. Too many of my students unthinkingly say to same sex marriage, "if two people love each other, who am I to say it's wrong?"

Well, definitions matter, and the re-definers will always push for something like, "if two sentient beings love each other, it's their right to be married"

Psalms declares, "If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do?" The wrecking ball is swinging, from state courts to The Supreme Court. This trend is only going to continue until enough people, hopefully, wake up and demand change.

My sister's dog
I'd like to marry my sister, my other sister, my brother, my other brother, my other brother's wife, my father, his sister (my aunt), and my sister's dog, all at the same time. And, there is really nothing that can be done to stop me.


Publius..
..my VCR is now available?

Just think of the divorces!!
The number of lawyers and the suing that will clog Our courts between "polygamists" in the decades to come just boggles the mind!

re: Publius
Sorry, there is strong legal reason to prohibit your marriage to the dog...

Amongst other things, marriage is a civil contract between consenting individuals. Children, animals, and inanimate objects cannot legally enter into contracts. Jurisprudence dictates that they lack the necessary faculties to express informed consent.


C. Moore
"… the State took marriage out of the Churches and made it a Civil matter. Consequently, marriage is, civilly, no longer a religious issue and Churches no longer gets (sic) to define it or the terms thereof."

Then find another church. Preferably, one that doesn't take its marching orders from currently fashionable sentiments. Or the State.

Fundamentalist Mormons
Should a "Mormon" engage in polygamy, he/she would be excommunicated and cease to be a "Mormon" - a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. That belief is "fundamental" to Mormon belief -- clear and direct latter-day revelation. As you realize, words really do matter. Please correct your usage.

A few thoughts here:
As soon as I get that talking robot:

Does my robot have an artificial intelligence? Therefore can it give "informed consent?"
Does it need to be of any "consentual age" to give that consent?
And if I get another, can that be a polygamist union???

Now that all those obstacles are gone...

Sorry, Dick Hanneman:
In the beginning, the Mormons were polygamists.
It was fundamental to their beliefs.
Then, to join the Union, Mormons outlawed the practice.
Therefore - fundamentalists do believe in polygamy. You are not one of them. You sir are a Modern Mormon as are most, but not all of your Church's members.

MERRY CHRISTMAS ALL!

Fair?
So a lesbian can't marry another lesbian. Neither can I. And a gay man can't marry another gay man, neither can my son. That people, is already fair. They want special privilege, not fairness. I really don't care what you do in your bedroom, but "Gay and lesbian day" at Disneyland (without even warning the general public) where gay couples were seen doing bedroom gymnastics by parents and children alike is just more than I'm willing to tolerate. And this did happen in the early 80's. We have lost all sense of propriety in our zeal to be politically correct and this country is doomed.

Can't marry a dog?
Can't marry a dog you say?

Lawrence v Texas

Scalia dissenting:

"The Texas statute undeniably seeks to further the belief of its citizens that certain forms of sexual behavior are “immoral and unacceptable,” Bowers, supra, at 196–the same interest furthered by criminal laws against fornication, bigamy, adultery, adult incest, bestiality, and obscenity. Bowers held that this was a legitimate state interest. The Court today reaches the opposite conclusion. The Texas statute, it says, “furthers no legitimate state interest which can justify its intrusion into the personal and private life of the individual,” ante, at 18 (emphasis addded). The Court embraces instead Justice Stevens’ declaration in his Bowers dissent, that “the fact that the governing majority in a State has traditionally viewed a particular practice as immoral is not a sufficient reason for upholding a law prohibiting the practice,” ante, at 17. This effectively decrees the end of all morals legislation. If, as the Court asserts, the promotion of majoritarian sexual morality is not even a legitimate state interest, none of the above-mentioned laws can survive rational-basis review."

The real problem with Lawrence v Texas is not enough Americans have read the entire case. C. Moore speaks of jurisprudence in a previous post. There is no jurisprudence when a supreme court justice can toss the constitution aside with impunity.

Imagine you are playing golf and find yourself in a situation where you need a ruling from a USGA rules official. The official arrives and pulls out a basketball rule book. What? He can't do that you say. Well, if he can't be fired and he has no accountability whatsoever, he can do whatever he wants. That's what we have on the supreme court today.

From the New Yorker by Jeffery Toobin: "In fact, Kennedy has a passion for foreign cultures and ideas, and, as a Justice, he has turned it into a principle of jurisprudence. Over the past two years, he has become a leading proponent of one of the most cosmopolitan, and controversial, trends in constitutional law: using foreign and international law as an aid to interpreting the United States Constitution. Kennedy’s embrace of foreign law may be among the most significant developments on the Court in recent years"

See, the advocates of Lawrence v Texas, and I am going to assume C. Moore is one too, don't care about the ramifications of this decision and neither do the majority justices. Again let me quote Scalia on this issue: "One of the benefits of leaving regulation of this matter to the people rather than to the courts is that the people, unlike judges, need not carry things to their logical conclusion."

I used to think this was the worst, most dishonest court ruling ever. Unfortunately the Supreme Court out did itself with their Kelo ruling.

Lawrence decision
Can no Townhall author accurately describe the sodomy law that was struck down and the court's reasoning for doing so? First of all, not one sodomy law in any state had targeted only homosexuals. These laws aimed to restrict ANY sexual contact that was not one man and one woman engaged in vaginal intercourse with the man on top. With that in mind, there would obviously be far more heterosexuals violating such a law than homosexuals considering each group's percentage of the population. THAT is where the Court's decision was partially based (along with privacy rights as the other half of the debate). Enforcement of such sodomy laws was almost exclusively targeted at homosexuals despite the broader aim of its language, thereby violating the guarantee of equal application of and protection under the law.

I'm certain
I'm certain Puftwafte has not read the decision in its entirety and is merely quoting from some left wing blogosphere.

The question is why? Intellectual laziness? Perhaps. Most likely though, he is afraid of what they will find. He'll find tortured logic, abandoned jurisprudence, our constitution turned upside down, reference to foreign law, and stare decisis abandoned. Additionally, he won't find jurisprudence and he won't find what is contained in his post above, except for a very minor reference.

Read it all, that includes the dissenting opinions.

Gov't involvement in marriage...
... began nearly 1000 years ago, at least as far as *our* government is concerned. Our legal code is based on English Common Law, and marriage as a civic institution is rooted in the very beginnings of ECL.

So arguing that marriage should not be a legal institution is not a simple matter; it would involve uprooting the very bases of our legal code.

Puftwafte: While you are correct where many state anti-sodomy laws are concerned, you are entirely incorrect re: Lawrence. The Texas Law which the USSC struck down *did*, in fact, specifically address homosexual sodomy; this in fact was one of the arguments used against it.

La Rue
Has no understanding of bisexuality. Most bisexual are not looking for multiple relationships. Just because they romantic attraction to both genders does not logially lead to needing or wanting a man and a woman for relationship fulfillment.

Publius: "Can't marry a dog? "
I don't know, I have seen some of those gals in comfy shoes doing the same sex marriage thing and I am not convinced.

Another stupid article.
First, the article begins with a convention that occured in 1972! Quite a while back. Then later it biasedly said that the courts ruled in favor of homosexual sodomy. It did not. It ruled in favor of ALL sodomy.

Not many people, gay, straight, or otherwise are close to being in favor of or even think it makes any sense to legalize marriage any farther than between 2 people. And the so-called "gay agenda" doesn't come from any particular gay group and certainly doesn't represent the views of all gay people, is not pushing for marriage to go any further than for it to be open to 2 people.

I read a bumper sticker or something like it recently that reads, "Marriage for all or divorce for none". If everyone would just focus on their own marriage rather than worry about what might happen to the future of the definition of marriage, that would do more for the "preservation" of marriage than anything else. The Bible, via Jesus, even has something to say about focusing our attention on our own sins (and lives in general) before we start condemning other people and their lives. (The splinter vs. the timber parable)

Of course there will always be fringe elements in our free society that call for extremely unpopular and rather impractical ideas of all kinds. Let's focus on the real issues rather than the fringe ones anyway. And not waste time and effort with stupid articles like the one about which we are all commenting on now.

re: Bipsy Quee
“. . . Then find another church. Preferably, one that doesn't take its marching orders from currently fashionable sentiments. Or the State. . .”

>>

How would that help? No marriage performed in a Church is legal UNTIL the State afixes it’s seal of approval.

“Then find another church,” does not address the issue at all. The fact remains that the LEGAL recognition of marriage is defined by the State. No religious ceremony in any Church or denomination has any legal standing whatsoever.

It is strictly the Civil ceremony of the issuance of a permit (marriage license) that sanctifies a marriage under Law. Religious services are merely pomp and circumstance and are not even required for the issuance of a permit.

Therefore, the State defines the conditions of Marriage and the recognition and privileges thereof. Legally, the Church has absolutely no say in the matter UNLESS it can get something writ into Law.

The point is, that, in Law, the Church no longer gets to define marriage. It is, now, barring Statre constitutional limitations to the contrary, a matter of the whim of the Legislators (not Judiciaries) of the Several States.

re: Publius / Can't marry a dog?
“. . . The real problem with Lawrence v Texas is not enough Americans have read the entire case. C. Moore speaks of jurisprudence in a previous post. There is no jurisprudence when a supreme court justice can toss the constitution aside with impunity. . .”

>>

There is a distince difference between “deviant sex” between two consenting adults (re: Lawrence v. Texas) AND marriage between a consenting adult and a canine that, by legal standards, cannot express consent. You’re simply looking to the wrong case to prove your point.

The case “Goodridge v. Dept. of Public Health” is a far more pertinent. In “Goodridge v. Depr. Of Public Health”, the Mass. Court struck down a state ban on gay marriage.

http://www.masslaw.com/signup/opinion.cfm?page=ma/opin/sup/1017603.htm

The court concluded:
“We construe civil marriage to mean the voluntary union of two persons as spouses, to the exclusion of all others.”


The established a definition of marriage that precludes:
* animals and inanimate object (re: “two persons”);
* animals, inanimate objects, and children children (re: “the voluntary union of” -- children cannot legally express consent and so cannot “voluntarity” enter into a union); and
* polygamy (re: “two persons as spouses, to the exclusion of all others”).

The definition delivered by the court, however, does not preclude siblings.

--------------------------------------------

“. . . There is no jurisprudence when a supreme court justice can toss the constitution aside with impunity. . .”

>>

I agree. And should the Supreme Court ever rule that Dogs have the capacity to express informed consent necessary to “voluntarity enter into union” then all sorts of Capacity cases, including children entering into contracts (re: child marriage, child labor, etcetera), will seek to clog the system and rewrite “jurisprudence”.

UNTIL THEN, though, I have provided a sound, legal argument for prohibiting your nuptials to the family pet.

--------------------------------------------

”. . . See, the advocates of Lawrence v Texas, and I am going to assume C. Moore is one too. . .”

>>

You are? You know what they say about making assumptions?

I opine about how marriage is, legally, a Civil construct and no longer a Religious institution AND I offer a valid legal argument against marrying the dog, nevermind the fact that I never mentioned Lawrence v. Texas. HOW, exactly, do my remarks lead you to on infer that I am an advocate of the Lawrence ruling??


Jimmy Carter
You have just made the best ever reason for expanding the definition of a marriage. Clog the courts. Brilliant. Surely this would bring the ACLU to a de facto halt. Our cultural values would be preserved. Allowing civil marriage would be a small price to pay, since only a small percent would avail themselves of the opportunities. Meanwhile, the rest of us would be spared judicial activism. And of course, a "church" marriage would start to mean something again, and something quite different than a civil marriage.

"Same-Sex" Marriages
There were a great many of us, in the 1960s, who felt that there were grave practical and moral objections to the criminalisation of homosexuality, and therefore supported, as happened in most Western countries, changes in the law which meant that certain forms of homosexual behaviour ceased to be unlawful. Homosexuality itself was still to be publicly regarded by society, let alone by its churches, as a great moral evil, but men who engaged in it, within strictly defined limits, would no longer be sent to prison. We believed this to be the maximum homosexuals deserved or could reasonably expect. We were proven totally mistaken. Decriminalisation made it possible for homosexuals to organize openly into a powerful lobby, and it thus became a mere platform from which further demands were launched. Next followed demands for equality, in which homosexuality was officially placed on the same moral level as standard forms of sexuality, and dismissal of identified homosexuals from sensitive positions, for instance schools, children's homes, etc., became progressively more difficult. This was followed in turn by demands not merely for equality but privilege: the appointment, for instance, of homosexual quotas in local government, the excision from school textbooks and curricula, and university courses, passages or books or authors they found objectionable, special rights to proselytize, and not least the privilege of special programmes to put forward their views — including the elimination of the remaining legal restraints — on radio and television. Thus we began by attempting to right what was felt an ancient injustice and we ended with a monster in our midst, powerful and clamouring, flexing its muscles, threatening, vengeful and vindictive towards anyone who challenges its outrageous claims, and bent on making fundamental — and to most of us horrifying — changes to civilized patterns of sexual behaviour.

Paul Johnson “The Quest for God´1997


edl
Great post. Tells where i am better than i could.

@Dave
Thanks for saving me the trouble of making those important points.

The gay organizations do not represent all gay people, just as the NRA does not represent all firearms owners, and the American Medical Association does not represent all physicians.

It puzzles me how individuals of a certain religious stream (one whose second-most important holiday occurs Monday) don't care to be lumped together, yet they have no problem lumping together other groups of people when it suits their purposes.

However, I don't think this is a matter of religious doctrine. I know some atheists,some agnostics, and some deists (there IS a difference) who are also bigots...

What's the problem
I couldn't help but notice your entire article did not give a single reason to oppose polygamy, but merely asserted that other people secretly desired it. How about a rundown on the reasons to oppose it?

The "Fairness" Slippery Slope
I've read all 24 posts. Most comments have nit-picked some aspect of the author's thoughts thinking this somehow derails her premise, but it hasn't. Very few have addressed the fundamental slippery-slope issue she raises - and it is a very important issue.

Someone has said, "there's no trap so deadly as the one you set for yourself." The homosexual lobby has set their own trap. They can't have it both ways...the "fairness" arguments they have blugeoned us with for decades can't very well be denied to the other "relationship minorities" out there.

Once homosexuals have gained access to the gated community of marriage that they so covet, those of other 'preferences' are going to launch EXACTLY the same argument that the homosexuals have used; namely the one that goes "Oh, now that YOU'RE inside YOU close the gates? Well what about US? It's UNFAIR to deny us the institution of marriage simply because we feel marital love shouldn't be limited to just two people."

The homosexual lobby simply has no credible comeback for this argument if they are going to reamin consistent with their own definitions of "fairness." They try to dismiss this issue as "spurious" or "alarmist," but it is a serious question that merits a serious reply. And if they are true to the logic they have employed for the last 30 years, there is only one intellectually honest response that can be given: they can't - in "fairness" - deny marriage to others who may have a different view of of the institution than those who want to limit it to two people.

Is America a Free Nation?
Is America a Free Nation?

Does anyone challenge the notion that Independence was fought for and America founded upon basic ideals of Individual Freedom and Liberty?


Properly understood, Freedom is the condition under which Sovereign Individuals are allowed to conduct their lives according to their own convictions so long as they do not commit aggression against the Equal Rights of others. This is the essence of Self-Governance; trusting individuals to govern their own lives, accepting the responsibility for their choices, and restraining themselves from committing aggression against others.

What few have questioned is the propriety of the State using its police power to impose the prevailing, social morality upon a Free Society.

“No man has the natural right to commit aggression against the Equal Rights of others, and this is all from which the Law ought to restrain him.” - Thomas Jefferson

Prohibiting peaceable conduct on the sole grounds that it is “immoral”, as defined by the prevailing attitudes at the time, defies the very concept of Self-Governance. It is to say, “you cannot be trusted to live your life ‘morally’, and so we must compel you to do so with the threat of criminal prosecution.”

It also denies the basic Sovereignty of the Individual. It assumes a contrived authority to control the peaceable conduct of individuals. It declares that individuals are Subjects, chattel belonging to the State rather than Citizens belonging to themselves. Accepting that premise is to accept that what Rights and Autonomy you have are merely boons, privileges extended by the State and subject to revocation on a whim.


Sadly, no, America is not a Free nation. We have strayed mightily from the founding principles of Individual Freedom, Liberty, Responsibility, and Independence. America may be freer than most nations. It might even be the freest. Having more freedom than other nations does not, however, make this a Free nation.


What would the actual ramifications of Freedom and Self-Governance -- empowering and trusting individuals to peaceably conduct their lives according to their own consciences -- be? I guess we may never know. Far too many individuals simply cannot abide by the notion of others freely doing something that they disagree with, disapprove of, or … Gasp! … might be a Sin.

C Moore gets one right
I apologize for the assumption. I was wrong about you being a lib.

However.

You say The case “Goodridge v. Dept. of Public Health” is a far more pertinent. In “Goodridge v. Depr. Of Public Health”, the Mass. Court struck down a state ban on gay marriage.

As Scalia predicted would someday be the case, Goodridge uses Lawrence as controlling to get to gay marraige. Read the case.

Scalia also predicts that someday in someone will use the same tortured logic in Lawrence to allow bestiality, incest, and polygamy. Their path is made that much easier by Goodridge.

To sum up. Your use of Goodrigde proves my point. Thank you.

I have an article on this on my blog
see "Some Thoughts on Same Sex Marriage" for a secular discussion opposing Same-Sex marriage.

http://heartlandpatriot.townhall.com/g/8fec7339-83d4-4042-aa00-1448a4036aaa

Re: Publius / C Moore gets one right
“. . . Goodridge uses Lawrence as controlling to get to gay marraige. . .”

>>

Really? Lawrence was “controlling”?

A quick survey of the case shows that Lawrence was cited ~7 times in the majority opinion (including footnotes). And at least two of those were joint cites with Planned Parenthood of Southeastern Pa. v. Casey, and one was part of a mass cite along with 6 others (“these are among the most basic of every individual's liberty and due process rights”).

No fewer than fourteen other cases were also cited with:
* Loving v. Virginia garnering ~10 cites [1]
* Perez v. Sharp garnering ~7 cites
* Zablocki v. Redhail garnering ~6 cites
* Milford v. Worcester scoring ~6 cites
* and a number of cases with only 1 or two cites.

[1] Cite counts were based upon quick analysis of the majority opinion, Greaney’s concurring opinion, and the footnotes therein (footnotes 1 - 40). I tried to keep my counts to actual citations, not including allusions and casual references so the actual numbers actually be off by +/- 2 or 3.


While Lawrence was certainly influential, it certainly does not appear "controlling". In fact Loving and Perez both seem to garner equal, if not more weight in the matter, especially as Loving was used to determine that marriage is a “civil right”, and both, were used to determine that, “the right to marry means little if it does not include the right to marry the person of one's choice.”

You might try reading it yourself.

-------------------------------------------

”. . . Scalia also predicts that someday in someone will use the same tortured logic in Lawrence to allow bestiality, incest, and polygamy. Their path is made that much easier by Goodridge. . .”

>>

The path is hardly, “made that much easier by Goodridge” except for, perhaps, incest.

Since you apparently missed it, the Court’s decision concluded: “We construe civil marriage to mean the voluntary union of two persons as spouses, to the exclusion of all others.” The whole, “voluntary union of two persons… to the exclusion of all others,” sort of excludes non-persons (dogs and toasters), a number of persons greater than two (polygamists), and persons lot legally capable of voluntarily entering into contracts (children).

Gee… you might try reading it yourself.

-------------------------------------------

”. . . To sum up. Your use of Goodrigde proves my point. . . “

>>

Hardly. See the preceding above.

Re: Publius

“I apologize for the assumption. I was wrong about you being a lib. . .”

>>

Since you were so willing assume that I’m an advocate of Lawrence, I’ll explain my position(s) on the decision:

While I agree with the, in principle, the reasoning for it was, to use your adjective, tortured. Consequently, I believe it is a bad ruling and every bit as onerous as Kelo v. New London.

Justice Scalia was right on the money when he argued that Texas’ law did not violate Equal Protection. The clear language of the Texas Statute [1] applies to anybody and everybody, not just homosexuals. Thus, a straight man is every bit as prohibited from sodomy with another man as a gay man. Sexual orientation was simply not a factor.

[1] § 21.06 (a) - A person commits an offense if he engages in deviate sexual intercourse with another individual of the same sex.
Source: http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/txcodes/pe.005.00.000021.00.html

Incidentally, this is the exact same reason why Gay Marriage is NOT an Equal Protection issue. Gays have the exact same right to marry a member of the opposite sex as straight people. They are not barred from marriage. They are only barred from marriage to someone of the same sex JUST LIKE everyone else -- a straight man equally barred from marrying another man. Sexual orientation is simply not a factor.

I do disagree, however, with Scalia’s endorsement of the idea that, “society's belief that certain forms of sexual behavior are ‘immoral and unacceptable,’” is a legitimate and rational basis for criminalizing otherwise peaceable conduct.

Additionally, I disagree with Justice Thomas’ separate note in dissent where he writes, “I ‘can find [neither in the Bill of Rights nor any other part of the Constitution a] general right of privacy.’” His reasoning there is as equally flawed as the majority’s rationale. Precedent notwithstanding, on the face of it, his argument seems to utterly ignore the 9th Amendment.

The 9th Amendment makes it abundantly clear that just because a Right is NOT enumerated that does NOT mean it does not exist AND may not be used to deny or disparage such a Right. If he wants to argue the existence of a Right, that is fine, but using the lack of constitutional enumeration is simply disingenuous sophistry.

The only part of the majority opinion that I truly agree with is the quote from another decision, “’Our obligation is to define the liberty of all, not to mandate our own moral code.’ Planned Parenthood of Southeastern Pa. v. Casey, 505 U. S. 833, 850 (1992).”

In conclusion, I agree with the result ONLY insofar as I believe all such laws (“mandat[ing] our own moral code”) to be nefarious intrusions into personal liberty. HOWEVER, the rationale is exceedingly flawed, making it a bad ruling -- AND, therefore, a bad result -- that should be vacated in its entirety. Unfortunately, that is highly unlikely and would be exceedingly difficult. [I think this almost argues for a form of “peer review”, but I digress.]

>>

You are right about me, though. I am a lib, but I am not a liberal. I am a libertarian and I believe that what two consenting adults do in private -- so long as they are not committing aggression against the Equal Rights of others; so long as they are not compelling others to participate or watch -- is simply none of anyone else’s business.

Re: Publius / Correction
"While I agree with the, in principle. . ."

Should have been:

"While I agree with the result, in principle. . ."

Is this trip necessary?
My God, in spite of its probable correctness and necessity, was it really proper on Christmas Eve to lather everyone up with further nastiness about the gay question? Give it a rest until the New Year! Some people have no couth!

A new book
is out called "Unprotected" written by an anonymous campus psychiatrist. She can't use her name or university because it would mean loss of her job. Basically, she points out the alarmingly high instances of suicide, depression, venereal disease and general mental illnesses on campuses today. She reveals how the PC attitude curbs her ability to help these people (what she can and cannot talk about), and the acceptance of behaviors(recreational and promiscuous sex, sexual threesomes, sex without committment, bestiality etc) are viewed by the PC as acceptable where once mental health people would view these behaviors as symptons of deeper problems. Gay, bi-sexul, transexual must al be treated with PC kid gloves. So, uncharlie doesn't like to talk about this at Christmas, but a lack of standards and values are seriously injuring our children.

Incest and Polygamy
One group in the polygamous crime organizations of the American West has already stated that incest is their religious right. Given that they have intermarried with nieces, sisters, cousins, aunts for years. One leader of the Kingstons says that to deny them incest rights is to effectively end their organization the Davis County Cooperative/Latter Day Church. One 21 year old brought incest charges stating that she was forced into a marriage with an older nephew which she was 15 and that nephew was also her cousin shows the degree of incest in this group. One girl who had married a bioligcal half-brother at 14 died in childbirth at 15, he went on to marry a niece. The University of Utah Medical Center hid her medical records for a decade in what amounted to negligent homicide and then the mother-in-law/mother has dead. In a more famous case Mary Ann Kingston was beaten unconscous by her father, John Daniel Kingston, for trying to escape her marriage to an uncle, his brother, and this was after she had already been raped by another uncle at nine and left in the organization. The fact that an elder Kingston now says that incest along with polygamy is their right to practice their religion is proof that these cases are merely the tip of the iceberg.

The truth is that most of the major polygamous organizations practice coerced marriages under threat of damnation, incest (the Warren Jeffs case focuses on a forced marriage between a fourteen year old girl and her cousin), stepdaughter/stepfather marriages while the man is also married to the mother and with the mother's consent (extremely common), trafficking between Canada and the U.S. of teenaged girls which has been going on for decades. In fact, the Supreme Court case Cleveland vs. the United States, 1946, involved the FLDS (now run by Warren Jeffs) in which the Supreme Court stated that taking girls over borders for polygamous marriages was a violation of the Mann Act. Despite that decision federal law enforcement has refused to intervene while 100s of girls in polygamy have been taken over state and international lines many of whom ended up in Winston Blackmore's bed in British Columbia. The truth is without coercion, denial of education, incest, teen brides, trafficking, stepdaughter and stepsister marriage, and child marriages (Alex Joseph, polygamous leader of Big Water married a nine year old) polygamous crime organizations would be hard pressed to find all the willing victims they need. Meanwhile the extremely wealthy polygamous organizations and interests and their lobby (even sending out voting pamphlets in Utah)are represented by the media and the ACLU while the victims are mostly poor and uneducated past elementary or junior high school.

Human Rights workers risk their lives since polygamous groups and individuals have murdered over 50 persons (known) in the U.S. since 1970 in honor killings known as blood atonement, bombed a Mormon church, and killed a law enforcement officer, while law enforcement has looked the other way for years. Decriminalization of polygamy happened a long time ago.

Legalization will make a vulnerable population more vulnerable. The age of marriage is 14 in Texas with parental consent and it is easy to get parental consent when the step father is the parent and the groom and the mother is also his wife. And if married, middle-aged polygamist men can have sexual relations and impregnate their stepdaughters and other teenagers; shouldn't that right be available to all men. And what of those who are victims to bigamist fraud; I guess they will just have to lose their life savings to bigamists and that person male or female can never be charged. Legalization of polygamy is the legalization of sexual abuse and fraud.

ABUSE IS A CRIME NOT A RELIGION.

Dangerous Misconception

Janet M. La Rue confuses
bisexuality with the word she finally uses at the end of the
article, "polyamorism." She says: "If polygamy isn’t
legalized, how will a bisexual marry just one person without
denying his or her “bisexual orientation”?"

There is a distinction between what
sex(es) you're attracted to and whether you prefer to have
sex with one, two, three, etc. people, and whether you want
to be married to one, two, three, etc. people.

On the Boston Bisexual Resource Center page, an article
about bi-inclusion in the gay community makes this point:

"Like some Gay men, some Lesbians and some Straight women
and men, some Bisexuals are in monogamous relationships.
Some are in a monogamous relationship with a member of the
same gender. Others are in a monogamous relationship with a
member of the other gender.

Like some Lesbians, Gay men and Straight women and men, some
Bisexuals are not in monogamous relationships."

Here's what Wikipedia has to say (pay attention especially
to the second paragraph):

"Bisexual orientation includes all the territory between the
two extremes of homosexuality and heterosexuality. Bisexual
people are not necessarily attracted equally to both
genders. Moreover, it is possible for a bisexual person to
be attracted to all genders but only one sex, or to all
sexes but only one gender (note the definition of gender as
social/psychological category, distinct from biological
sex). Apart from sexual preference, some bisexual people
describe their attraction as being based on personality or
other characteristics rather than gender. Another view of
bisexuality is that homosexuality and heterosexuality are
two monosexual orientations, whereas bisexuality encompasses
them both. However, some argue that bisexuality is a
distinct sexual orientation on a par with heterosexuality or
homosexuality.[1]

Bisexuality is often misunderstood as a form of adultery or
polyamory, and a popular misconception is that bisexuals
must always be in relationships with men and women
simultaneously. Rather, individuals attracted to both males
and females, like people of any other orientation, may live
a variety of sexual lifestyles. These include: lifelong
monogamy, serial monogamy, polyamory, polyfidelity, casual
sexual activity with individual partners, casual group sex,
and celibacy. For those with more than one sexual partner,
these may or may not all be of the same gender."

I'm not sure why Janet M. La Rue thinks that all bisexual
people want to be married to more than one person at once,
in order to fully express their bisexuality. Boy, is she
wrong.

Unfortunately, her entire argument turns on this
misconception! She seems to believe that bisexuals
would "deny their bisexual orientation" if they couldn't
marry an individual of each gender. The reason bisexuals aren't clamoring for
being able to marry one person of each gender is, I suspect,
most bisexuals don't want to! Another major difference
between polygamy and bisexuality is this:

Mormon polygamy (I will define this because that's whats
really at stake)= one man has multiple wives. He has sex
with each wife, but is unlikely to have sex with more than
one wife at once. The point of polygamy is that he is like a
pivot point with multiple marriages, not one great sexual
orgy.

Bisexuality= an individual is attracted to both men and
women. He/she wants to have sex with men sometimes, and with
women sometimes. This has no bearing on whether or not
he/she likes to have sex with more than one person or not.
As I said, that is independent of sexual orientation. There
are plenty of men who dream of "two ladies," right?

Is La Rue really this stupid?
If La Rue claims that bisexuals intend to marry more than one person from their available pool, then surely she must claim that heterosexuals intend to marry more than one person from their available pool. After all, since LaRue's heterosexuality means that she's attracted to males, surely she plans to marry a whole mess of them, correct?

Somebody tell me she really isn't this stupid....
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