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Thursday, June 07, 2007
James Bopp, Jr. :: Townhall.com Columnist
There Is Nothing "Wrongheaded" About Romney's Call For Repeal Of McCain-Feingold
by James Bopp, Jr.
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The Washington Post's May 26th editorial, Campaign Finance Flip, took presidential candidate Mitt Romney to task for calling for the repeal of McCain-Feingold, which Romney justified in a recent Townhall.com piece, The Fundamental Flaws in the McCain-Feingold Law. The editorial claims a "wrongheaded turnabout," denies that McCain-Feingold is a product of "Washington's back-scratching political class" that "imposes unprecedented restrictions on the political activities of everyday Americans" and disputes that it forces political spending into "secret corners," giving more power to "hidden special interests." The Washington Post is wrong on every count.

Romney attacks McCain-Feingold because the "electioneering communication" prohibition imposes a "free speech blackout period," where corporations, including non-profit advocacy groups, and labor unions would commit a federal crime if they mentioned the name of a federal candidate in a broadcast ad within 30 days of a primary and 60 of a general election. He says that "the American people should be free to advocate for their candidates and their positions without burdensome limitations" and that this blackout period "is contrary to the spirit of a free and open issues debate."

There can be no doubt that this "free speech blackout period" is an "unprecedented restriction on the political activities of everyday Americans." It is "unprecedented;" even the now discredited Sedition Act of 1798 required that the prohibited speech be "false, scandalous and malicious" or bring governmental officials "into contempt or disrepute."

And Senator McCain and the campaign finance lobby argue that even grass roots lobbying about upcoming votes in Congress should be banned during the blackout periods. Senator McCain intervened in two cases brought by Wisconsin Right to Life and the Christian Civic League of Maine to stop them from lobbying their Senators about the filibuster of Bush's judicial nominees, the Child Custody Protection Act and the federal marriage protection amendment.

Furthermore, the law targets groups, corporations and labor unions, exempting wealthy individuals, spending their own money, and the news media. "Everyday Americans" must pool their resources into advocacy groups to effectively participate in our democracy, and they are the ones prohibited.

The Post editorial responded that nonprofits "can run whatever ads they want as long as they pay for them through political action committee funds." This is the free speech equivalent of "let them eat cake." PAC funds are very difficult to raise with corporate and union contributions prohibited and individuals limited to $5,000 annually. If one gives more that $200 to a PAC, the PAC must publicly report the donor's home address and employer, opening up the donor and his or her employer to retaliation and harassment by disgruntled opponents and politicians.

Furthermore, all churches and charities, tax exempt under section 501(c)(3), are prohibited by the IRS from having PACs and many non-profits, like the AARP and the ACLU, don't want to become involved in partisan politics.

As for forcing political spending into "secret corners," giving more power to "hidden special interests," the Post's editorial grudgingly acknowledges that "the current campaign finance system is flawed: no doubt, some spending has been shifted into areas exempt from disclosure," but argues that the current system is "less corrupt." Does anyone really believe that our political system is better off because section 527 groups like "Americans Coming Together," "Joint Victory Fund," "Media Fund," and "Progress for America" spent more than 600 million dollars in 2004, rather than letting the Republican National Committee and NAACP spend it? What the Post now calls a "flaw," they previously called "ominous" and "buying influence."

And this was no "turnabout." Romney was and is appropriately concerned about the influence of money on politics, which is why he is for more transparency, accountability and disclosure, all of which McCain-Feingold has undermined by driving money to "secret corners." Regarding spending limits and public funding, which he previously supported, they restrict candidates, not citizens groups which he criticized McCain-Feingold for, and they proved to be such a failure in Massachusetts that he supported their repeal as Governor.

Regarding abolishing PACs, the big "turnabout" is not by Romney, who was concerned enough about PAC contributions that he didn't take any in 1994, but by the campaign finance reform lobby. The center piece of the original McCain-Feingold bill, introduced in the early 1990s, was abolishing PACs. This followed a relentless campaign by the campaign finance reform lobby, including Public Citizen, Common Cause and The New York Times, which published breathless exposes demonizing PAC contributions for their influence on legislators. Incumbent politicians were receiving about 80% of PAC contributions, and, in 1997, the PAC ban was dropped, as the result of opposition mainly from House Democrats and Senate Republicans. "Back-scratching" by the Washington political class seems like an apt, if modest, description of this.

Now, however, under the new McCain-Feingold, PACs are just a way for "citizens to play by the same rules as candidates." Not only are PACs not prohibited, they are now the required vehicle for everything a group wants to do to participate in our democracy – mention the name of a candidate, tell fellow citizens about what a politician is doing to us or for us in office, lobby him or her about an upcoming vote in Congress – all must be done through a PAC.

Nor has McCain-Feingold improved public cynicism about politics. Since its adoption in 2002 through 2004, almost 50% more Americans believe that people don't have a say in what the government does and 17% more Americans think that quite a few governmental officials are corrupt.

Finally, the Post justifies the "free speech blackout period" as stopping "sham issue advertising" – "the creation of corporate America and labor unions trying to get around the law that prohibits them from making political contributions." The news media exception belies this claim. The news media in America is owned almost entirely by six multinational corporate conglomerates, which earned total revenues in 2005 of 281 billion dollars. They can mention the names of federal candidates 24/7/365 and many in the media want to influence federal elections with this massive corporate spending.

Senator McCain recently explained, in filings in the U.S. Supreme Court, that any broadcast ads were sham efforts to influence federal elections, if they "took a critical stance regarding a candidate's position on an issue" and "referred to the candidate by name," during the blackout periods, and could be banned. It would come as a surprise to most Americans that incumbent politician have the power under our Constitution to prohibit people from criticizing them, but this is just what McCain-Feingold is intended to do. Repeal of this "deeply-flawed measure," therefore, is not "wrongheaded," but a welcome call from an aspiring Presidential candidate.

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About The Author

James Bopp, Jr. is a leading campaign finance litigator who serves as General Counsel for the James Madison Center for Free Speech in Terre Haute, Indiana. He also serves as Special Advisor for Life Issues for the Romney for President campaign.

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ahem
"There Is Nothing "Wrongheaded" About Romney's Call For Repeal Of McCain-Feingold"


No foolin. It has McCain's name on it. I think anything the guy touches in the last 5 years has turned to dust.

He's done. Wrap him up and get him out of the race.. he's wasting time... ours and his.

Power
McCainFeingold gives power to the MSM just prior to elections. It takes it from advocacy groups.

Liberty
McCain Feingold deprives the average citizen of his/her liberties. This is precisely what the 1st Amendment was designed to protect, the rights of any citizen to redress his/her government. This was strike one for President Bush and Senator McCain, both. McCain supported a flawed law that is an incumbent protection bill and deprives citizens of their rights. President Bush signed a bill believing it was unconstitutional but relying upon the court to declare it as such rather than taking the initiative to honor his commitment to the Constitution himself.

The only real exception that I find in this entire article is that I am somewhat amazed at the concept that non-profits like the ACLU and the AARP have no desire to participate in partisan politics.

Losing our self-government
The sawed-off, pip-squeek voiced McCain is leading the effort to turn the Federal Gov't into an unassailable, unresponsive fascistic dictatorship. He has and is cooperating with the democrats on every loathsome and vile initiative that serves to advance their agenda. His policy positions appeal to the leftist media and big business - not to regular party voters.

Combine this with his own scandle-plagued and corrupt career, and it's a wonder he still enjoys any support at all within the republican party.

Romney's making great strides just opposing and contrasting himself to McCain. Realizing he can't get the nomination, the self-absorbed McCain will do what he can to assure the democrats victory. McCain has issues that are deeply psychological stemming from his Vietnam captivity...he is the Manchurian Candidate.

Something needs to be done to revamp ...
... or do away with it.

http://OsiSpeaks.com or http://Osispeaks.org

Robert, the obtuse
Even the SCOTUS recognized the fact that money contributions are a form of political speech before it conjured up reasons to ignore this fact.

Advocates pool their resourses so that they may be heard in the political arena - something they would not be able to do short of the ballot box otherwise. We contribute individually so that we might possibly advance our political views through the speech of our advocates.

But even this is such a difficult concept for leftists to grasp. In their (and Robert's) chaotic, unstructured, unreal world, merely saying it makes it so.

Lawyers
We were all hammered in civics class (or the equivalent) with the genius our founders had when they split government and its power into 3 balancing structures.

Legal professionals obviously dominated the judial branch. Many (ALL?) of our troubles can be laid at the feet of lawyers coming to dominate all 3 branches.

Lawyers must be banned from elected offices! It is obviously a conflict of interest to have them writing and enacting law they and their partners will benefit from.

McCain-Feingold
Why hasn't someone appealed this through the justice system? It is clearly unconsitiutional. Oh yes, I know, a lot of our judges are acting like dictators themselves.

Romney Rudy
If Romney takes IA, and NH and maybe NV, it then comes down to getting SC and FL to break into a 4 way race. Super Tuesday is an Ad War, Money game and Romney and Rudy will win that.

Real Campaign Reform
It would be a good start to get rid of McCain-Feingold (and McCain with it), but it would not be enough. All campaign finance restrictions should be repealed and we should return to the good old days of pre-watergate election finance. Since the restrictions put in place after watergate, every congresscritter spends 90% of his time raising money for the next election, because it has to come in such small increments. Back in the 60s, a relatively unknown candidate could sometimes find a major backer and make himself known through advertising. Now he has to be personally wealthy to do that.

Whose Contempt?
The only reason the Sedition Act of 1798 has become discredited is because if we were to enforce a ban on bringing governmental officials into contempt or disrepute, we would have to arrest every member of Congress and most of the White House staff.

Come to think of it, maybe we need to bring this act back.

McCain-Feingold
I received a survey from the McCain campaign a few months ago. It was a fairly well done survey, as these things go. One of the last items was an open-ended invitation to list the three things I believed necessary to improve our political system. The first action item I listed was "repeal McCain-Feingold". I figured that would get me off their mailing list. They must be very careful readers; I still receive all sorts of stuff from the McCain campaign.

McCain-Feingold is a direct assault on the 1st Amendment. Unfortunately, it is only the most egregious example of a host of such assaults -- by nearly all the professional politicians.

Romney - Right again
Mitt continues to pile up all the right enemies. Now add the Washington Post to the list.

Some bad legislation can be defended either in "theory" or in "outcome." McCain-Feingold can be defended by neither. In "theory" it is an egregious assault on the 1st amendment. (So obvious that Bush was sure the SCOTUS would reject it) In practice, it has increased EVERY problem it was supposed to solve. It's made more money, less identifiable.

The answer to this issue is simple. No limits, No cash, full disclosure. All contributions posted on the web within 48 hours of receipt. The technology to do this is not only available - but rather trivial.

Romney is right again. The MSM is scared to death of this guy. He's the person most likely to upset the Hillary express. Head to head, in a long campaign - Romney could win 48 states.

Robert coins a new word
Yo Robert, thank you for your new word. The new word is "lietral".

lietral adj. 1. an interpretation claiming to be based on the actual or "literal" meaning of a word or passage which is actually based on a lie. 2. having no relation to reality. 3. anything Robert says about the constitution

Money is not speech?
Ok, fair enough. You can go ahead and shout whatever you want from a street corner.

Oh, but if you spend money on bus fair to get to said street corner, YOU GO TO JAIL! After all, money is not speech.

And if you spend money on shoes to wear while walking to said street corner, YOU GO TO JAIL! After all, money is not speech.

And if you buy a bullhorn to amplify your voice so more people can hear you, YOU GO TO JAIL! After all, money is not speech.

Ah, yes, welcome to the wonderful world that Robert and his buddies who advocate for CFR!

RE: Kathy
"Check it out, Romney authorized gay marriage in Massachusetts."

I seriously wish libel laws were enforced in the United States.

Kiddo, Romney didn't have anything to do with legalizing homosexual marriage in Massachusetts. The Supreme Judicial Court hereby decreed that the Massachusetts constitution had a super-secret hidden clause visible only to them that said homosexual marriage was constitutionally protected.

Romney has opposed that decision from the onset.

Why do idiots like you insist of lying about this? Are lies the only way you know how to argue for your side?

Campaign reform
I thought that everyone but McCain and Feingold realized by now the folly of the Act.

Gabby said:
"But McCain proved through McCain-Feingold that he does NOT understand the consequences of his actions and is unfit for leading this country."


He either doesn't understand or flat out does not care. Being in that he's been in the senate for 24 years, the latter is likely true.

Either way though, you are correct. He is definately unfit to serve... no matter what that dolt Trent Lott says.

I agree, "nametabs"

"Lawyers must be banned from elected offices!"

I'd go for a full amnesty of all illegal aliens in exchange for the complete deportation of all the lawyers in the US to any country that would have 'em. Any takers? The Sudan maybe?

Robert
Supreme Court Justice you are not. Money is a form of speech. You are paying a particular person or group to be your voice.

This Bill
is a fiasco with a whole lot of unintended consequences. This bill really put the sleazy back in politics and gave a louder voice to PAC's and groups while penalizing the average citizen.

McCain-Feingold, A Deeper Look
In a article by Mitt Romney on April 25, 2007 he stated: “The original intent of McCain-Feingold was to reduce the role of money and special interests in our political system”.
Now why, pray tell, would we want ‘to reduce the role of money and special interests in our political system’? Because, clearly, those special interests may require special treatment in exchange for their money if and when those to whom it was given get elected into positions of power. In other words, corruption, pay back, influence peddling, bribery.

Why, then, has it so far escaped notice in the discourse over this clear violation of our First Amendment right to Freedom of Speech that by, whatever name, all of these unfortunate practices require the participation of both the corrupter and the corrupted, the payer and the payee, the peddler and the buyer, the briber and the bribed? And is the one any more or less culpable than the other? Does it matter in the least which initiated the sleazy transaction?

Which brings me to this: McCain-Feingold Campaign Finance Reform is nothing more nor less than our own politicians admitting to us that, as a group, they are individually of such low character, so susceptible to unsavory violations of the public trust, so,…, corruptible,…, that the only way for them to protect us from themselves is to remove temptation from their eager and greedy reach by their denying us our freedom of political speech during the closing days of political campaigns. After which, presumably, we can trust them explicitly once they gain office, sans any bothersome late minute input or opinions from us, to conduct themselves in only the most exemplary fashion while they manage the billions even trillions of dollars they confiscate from us during each and every year of their thereby incumbency protected term/s.

Is that, indeed, the only solution? Mitt continued in the aforementioned column to say: “What is really needed is greater transparency, and disclosure, of campaign contributions”. Now there is an idea! What is objectionable about that as an alternative to the current horrific violation of our Freedom of Speech? And from whom might such objections arise other than from those very politicians whose corruption might thereby be exposed?

There will, of course, be those who’s knee-jerk response to this notion will be that there is no way to guarantee such disclosure. As though enforceability has proven to be the strength of McCain-Feingold to date. As though our politicians and their supporters have not found other creative ways to circumvent the intent of this sorry legislation. As though there is not, subsequent to McCain-Feingold, more money than ever in our political election process.

How about our esteemed fifth estate do its job the right way for the right reasons? The MSM has had great success in disclosing and denigrating all manner of secret and, by the way, perfectly legal operations of the current administration in it’s efforts to protect us from sworn enemies. They are forever telling us who is providing money to whom when doing so promotes their world view. But they aren’t up to this task? Nonsense. They aren’t interested in accomplishing this task that’s all. It reduces their power and influence. And our politicians aren’t interested in them doing so either. So instead we, the people, of by and for whom this government is said to exist are to be silenced for our own good by those and because of those who admit to us that they are untrustworthy in placing our own good above their own selfish interests.

Does Money=Speech?
Robert is literally correct when he says that money is not equivalent to speech, but otherwise he completely misses the point.

No rational person believes that money and speech are exactly the same thing, so arguing against that position is pointless. When people say money equals speech, it is simply shorthand for this logical argument:

Many forms of speech are available at no cost at all. However, some forms of speech such as advertising in print, airwaves, or electronic communication, will almost always require money. Limiting the expenditure of money used to facilitate such speech is tantamount to limiting citizens' or candidates' ability to engage in those forms of speech.

Now principled arguments may be made either for or against the constitutionality of such limits, but that is indeed the heart of the matter. Personally, I believe arguments for such limits are logically and constitutionally weak. I think campaign finance law should allow far more speech, eliminate restrictions on spending, but require disclosure of the funding sources.

In any case, let's talk about the real issue, not some strawman argument about the literal equivalence of money and speech.


How to fix campaign finance laws
#1 Repeal all of the current campaign finance laws.

#2 Cititzens, PACs, etc., can give as much money as they want to any candidate.

#3 All contributions (donor's name, amount, and day) have to be posted on the internet within 48 hrs.

I know why this will never pass. It is simple and makes too much sense for the D.C. elites.

Robert and "lieteralism"
Two direct quotes from the Act:
"SEC. 203.: Prohibition of corporate and labor disbursements for electioneering communications....the term `electioneering communication' means any broadcast, cable, or satellite communication which promotes or supports a candidate for that office, or attacks or opposes a candidate for that office (regardless of whether the communication expressly advocates a vote for or against a candidate) and which also is suggestive of no plausible meaning other than an exhortation to vote for or against a specific candidate."

(Note the definition of SPEECH CONTENT)

A direct quote from the First Amendment: "Congress shall make no law ... abridging the freedom of speech"

(Note the LACK of exceptions for groups as opposed to individuals)

A direct quote from Webster's: "abridge (2) to reduce or lessen in duration, scope, authority, etc.; diminish; curtail"

Reading literally seems to be your difficulty, not others'.

Censored!
Normally, my name appears at the foot of the comment page, ready for my new comment.

This morning, I was asked to log in, which I duly did. (These things happen.) But no luck. I requested a new password. No luck.

So I created a new account.

Then I went back to reading the ravings of the likes of Kathy.

All my posts have gone. I checked several threads. All gone.

Happily, many of you quoted me, so my pearls of wisdom remain.

So, who is willing to take responsibility for this? Hmm?

Mellor: perhaps you should take
responsibility for yourself.

TH doesn't kick someone off the site just because someone else has complained. There has to be an actual problem with that poster's comments, and usually a pretty serious one.

Sounds to me like you earned your own way into exile.

An Alternative View
I thought the Post got this one just about right. Bopp knows next-to-nothing about campaign finance problems, which ensure the endless re-election of people like Kennedy, Pelosi, Murtha, and the like. What's his solution? Well, duh. Not good enough, Bopp.

I did a piece today that's a little hard on the much-revered "conservative" base, and I outline how people like Giuliani, McCain, and several others view that base. Comments are always welcome, just click on name above:

Frankly, they don’t want the GOP to become “The White Males” Party. They realize that such a Party would be heading quickly down the road to extinction. That’s where they see the “base” taking the GOP, and they are appalled. They look at the Tom Tancredos and Ron Pauls, and they see the specter of a Party with no prospects. They see the development of a permanent minority, a Party that "just says 'No!'" to everything.

They know that Black Americans, for example, regard the Republican Party as racist and irrelevant. They don't want the rest of the country, including the large and growing Hispanic minority, thinking along the same lines.







The things I say
are as nothing compared to what folk here say about gays and Mexicans.

If there is a problem with my comments, then you (or the responsible party) should at least have the decency to tell me what it is. Was it the obvious inference that many christians are uneducated hicks, for example? Or that Kathy is an anti-gay bigot? Or that christians and mormons are delusional? Or that the suit against eHarmony is ill-founded? Or my belief in the Flying Spaghetti Monster, may you touched by His Noodly Appendage?

You tell me. And if agree that the statement is defensive, I'll desist.

Mellor
I was simply explaining.

Personally, I never flag anyone's posts, other than one guy who cuts and pastes in these very long articles from psychology journals that take 50 or so "page downs" to get by. I think he's been banned now. Even him I warned several times before I flagged it.

I've read a lot of rubbish posted by folks on both sides of the debate, you're right on that.

Frankly, I find the wilder-eyed ramblings amusing, so I'd never flag them anyway. But I figure everyone's got equal opportunity here to make fools of themselves, myself included.




BTW, Mellor
I got kicked off once, too, for something I wrote critical of the Pope, so it's not just people on the Left who get the boot!

I coined the phrase for it: "Getting sent to Siberia".


Hellfire and Brimstone...full of it
Here we go again with vintage Evangelical anti-Mormon attacks. Why is it that when Mitt Romney's name is mentioned, all the bigots come out of the woodwork about this presidential candidate's religion? If I had a dime for every baseless ad hominem attack on Romney because of his religion, I could buy out Bill Gates with chump change. This is about McCainFeingold you moron!

Hellfire is telling us not to vote for Romney because he wears "magical underwear". His factual, intellectual commentary on a presidential candidate's underwear is a waste of space on this website. Are you suggesting we have an underwear litmus test in our first amendment for a presidential candidate!?

Hugh Hewitt supports Romney because he is a GREAT CANDIDATE for President, not Pastor of the U.S.! He has a wonderful record of success, honest, God-fearing, classy candidate.

Since when has anyone in Massacusetts ever complained that Romney was a poor governor because his Mormon faith pulling his puppet strings??? When did Michigan ever complain that his father's faith ruined his governership? When have any democrats ever complained that Harry Reid was too influenced by Salt Lake City's conservative viewpoints?

Romney is a patriot and so is the averagae Mormon. Romney is conservative and so is the average Mormon. Romney is highly entrenched in moral values as the average Mormon. Romney holds good ole American family values as the average Mormon does. I'm tired of hearing this mantra about Mormons wanting to take over the world with magical underwear. No wonder the liberals laugh at so many of you paranoid evangelicals...yes, you know it's YOU!

Now there is the move to ostracize the CINOs, or Christian in name only, calling Mormons a cult, obviously so insecure in their faith that they feel the need to deride others of theirs.

When you self-proclaimed Christian elitists get done hacking away at those who don't fit into your narrow view of what constitutes Christiantiy, you may end up with about 15% of the electorate.

Hellfire, your comments reveal nothing but a bias on your part

Robert
Your comparing apples to oranges. Congress can and does regulate the airwaves because they are our reps. and we the people own them. McCain-Feingold allows a group or corp. to give more money in the form of a PAC than the average citizen, therefore they buy more Freedom of Speech. If anything this law is backwards. Individuals should be allowed to give more without having to form a collective. Collectives are much more capable of buying politicians. Look at Soros who owns Edwards outright, along with Pelosi and Reid. This was done so a multimillionaire could not single handedly buy a candidate or campaign. Fell short. Look at Soros, then look at Bloomberg who can just finance himself.

Robert
Oh and another thing. Even SCOTUS factors in intent. The intent of this law has had an unintended effect.

Will
That's correct. If you flag a comment as offensive, then a TH employee looks to see if it really is; one can't just go around flagging every post with which one doesn't agree.

Hell, there'd be nothing left!

The offenses aren't opinion-based (read the user agreement). It has to be bad language, offensive name-calling, obscenity, etc.

Of course, as the owner of a private business -- the site itself -- TH reserves the right to be the final arbiter.

But let's face it, there are pretty extreme posters from across the political spectrum, so it's not going to be just because they -- or some employee in the company -- disagree with you. We even disagree with ourselves within our own ideologies.




LOL -- one of my comments last
week was apparently flagged, as it disappeared. I'm pretty conservative, as I think most will agree!

NO FENCE!!! EVER!!! PROOF:
The vote was 42-54 on an amendment by conservative Sens. Tom Coburn, R-Okla., and Jim DeMint, R-S.C., that would have required a congressional vote to certify that border security and workplace enforcement "triggers" were in place before the legalization or the new guest worker program could take effect.

___

RE: Nonsense Robert
"Money is not speech...and the rest of your comments are not sensical."

You're right, it is nonsense because I am applying the "money is not speech" idiocy down the line.

Riddle me this: Do you believe that advertising in newspapers, or on TV, or on the radio is free? If you say 'no', then you MUST realize the total stupidity of the "money is not speech". If you say 'yes', then just quit this conversation right now because you obviously are off on some other planet or something.

Your boneheaded "money is not speech" nonsense is just that: nonsense. What you are saying is that having to pay money to get your speech heard is not protected, thus my little list fits PERFECTLY with your idiotic notions. One must pay money in order to buy advertising in a newspaper -- EXACTLY, PRECISELY the SAME way one must pay money for bus fair to that street corner, or pay money in order to buy shoes to walk to that street corner, or pay money to buy that bullhorn so you can be heard. There is NO difference. Period. End of sentence.

And where do you get that silly notion that the Constitution doesn't protect "groups" of people? Are you telling me that you think that if you could stand on a corner and say "I don't like Bush!", that's protected by the First Amendment, but if someone stands next to you and shouts the same, the Constitution doesn't protect you both from being tossed in jail because you are no longer a "people", but instead are a "group"?

We're NOT talking about porn, nor yelling "fire" in a crowded building. We are talking about the TRUE intention of the First Amendment, which if you'd open up any history book you'd know that it was to protect the very speech that CFR bans: political speech.

Every time you repeat "money is not speech", you are COMPLETELY missing the point. Of course money doesn't equal speech, but one needs money in order to pay for the means by which to speak. Banning the means by which one is able to speak is the EXACT same thing as banning speech itself.

In all seriousness here, there is only one of two choices on your insistence that "money isn't speech":

1) You yourself are an elected official who rightly sees CFR as a means by which you can practically guarantee you'll never be defeated because CFR bans the oppostion from speaking.

or 2) You really are completely unaware of the fact that it costs money to run campaign ads.

Which is it?

RE: trojan140
"#3 All contributions (donor's name, amount, and day) have to be posted on the internet within 48 hrs."

Make sure you also give driving directions to each donor's house so it makes it easy for opponents of the candidate to whom they donated to locate them and burn their house down as well.

Ought we get rid of the secret ballot and post who votes for whom on the internet, too? If not, why not? What is the difference between identifying who votes for whom and who donates to whom? Aren't they just different parts of the same process?

YOU WANT A FENCE?? HA, HA, HA
The vote was 42-54 on an amendment by conservative Sens. Tom Coburn, R-Okla., and Jim DeMint, R-S.C., that would have required a congressional vote to certify that border security and workplace enforcement "triggers" were in place before the legalization or the new guest worker program could take effect.


___

May I now wipe McCn/ peeeee from my face, or is it too early (more is coming)?

oops
TYPO:
should read: McCain/Graham

Repetition doesn't make it so
Robert writes: Thursday, June, 07, 2007 10:54 AM
Not so much actually...
Acetate writes: Thursday, June, 07, 2007 2:59 AM
Robert, the obtuse
Even the SCOTUS recognized the fact that money contributions are a form of political speech before it conjured up reasons to ignore this fact
...

no it didnt...money is not speech.

money is money, speech is speech. I have LOTS of money, probably more then you do...that does not mean I am giving a speech.

Robert
----------------------------------------
I'm sure if you keep repeating the lie enough you'll convince at least yourself. The rest of the USA will stick with SCOTUS precedence wherein monetary contributions are recognized as a form of speech.

BLOGS...THE NEW EQUALIZER
What exists now that did not exist then is the exponential explosion of personal communication that can go national in a split second.

Let the market go...if you want to give it to joe smuck politician go ahead...but beware. some summer intern or political junkie will get a juicy tidbit and your "hidden" gesture will be a waste.

LOGICAL ANSWER
1. DUNCAN HUNTER
2. TOM TANCREDO.
3. SEE ABOVE

Romney is pandering shamelessly
The only reason Romney suddenly announced he was for repealing McCain-Feingold is so he could a) appeal to the conservative base of the GOP and b) have another issue to beat McCain over the head with, since both of them are vying for the same foreign-policy voters. Romney has now reinvented himself as a social conservative, something he NEVER was when he was governor of Massachusetts.

The Romney of 2007 doesn't talk anything like the Governor Romney of Massachusetts I remember--I live in Massachusetts and back then he positioned himself as very moderate domestically.

I give both McCain and Giuliani a great deal of credit as REAL MEN, if not as CANDIDATES, for their willingness to take stands on key issues even if those stands are unpopular with the GOP base.

Robert, a Democrat?
If Robert is a Democrat, he must be a complete hypocrite. "Money is not speech" coming out the mouth of a Democrat is like Pastor Dan visiting a prostitute. The Democrats fully endorse the reasoning of Griswold v Connecticut, which articulated that every Constitutionally specified right has a "penumbra" of related rights around it, without which the exercise of that specified right is meaningless.

A man's right to vote is meaningless, for example, if he can't get to the polls; thus access to the polls is Constitutionally protected. Or, as is argued in Griswold, the right to marry is meaningless without the right to use contraception (by the way, I don't get this either, but that's what they argued...).

It happens that THIS conservative is one who recognizes that such rights exist, but that's not the point. The point is that Democrats, who insist on defending all the peripheral rights, even the most obscure and (frankly) laughable, steadfastly REFUSE to acknowledge the connection between money and speech in the contemporary political world. This is beyond hypocricy; they're a parody of themselves.

Robert, please tell me you're a libertarian, who steadfastly opposes Griswold and it's children, including Roe v Wade and Doe v Bolton. Otherwise, you just might get laughed out of the room.

Robert, are you joking???
Robert writes, just too stupidly to be believed, "If you and five hundred other people want to buy an ad, where it is not a singular position but an expression of a "group" interest, then that is not speech...that is advertising and advertising for a product is not protected speech."

And you don't think an association's right to declare their political point of view in a newspaper fits the framer's intent regarding protected free speech?

Please tell me you're writing satire...

Recall McCain & HIS DUMB BILL!!!
Arizonians want to Recall McCain!!! I wish they had done so a long time ago!!!

I'm glad that someone is finally calling for the repeal of that disgusting - anti-free speech bill.

McCain has got to go.


Ok, I just read some of Roberts' args,
...and I get it. People who believe like the political and social left would rather argue that black is just a shade of white rather than change their minds. I've seen this dozens of times. They're not capable of agreeing even with the obvious.

My favorite was the discussion I had with an advocate of abortion rights, in which I was arguing the clear distinction between sperm cells and ova, on the one hand, and a zygote, on the other (the zygote fits all reasonable scientific definitions of "life," the cells do not). In order to avoid admitting that a reasonable distinction could be made, this mook literally argued that there was no logical distinction possible between a man and the broccoli he was chewing, since he would soon digest the broccoli and it would become part of him. For real. He actually said that, completely invalidating the scientific discipline of taxonomy, not to mention invalidating any possibility of systematic logic, rather than admit that I had drawn a valid distinction.

I honestly don't know how these folks live with themselves. But incredibly, they actually believe they're the only ones capable of logical thought!

BrianR, I believe you
are making excuses for MellorSJ. There comes a point when the line between decency and manners simply is crossed over. This particular poster has crossed this line often, attacked other posters viciously when uncalled for, resorted to name calling and personal insults much of the time, and completely ignores posters when they call him on it or ask him to stop attacking them personally. I also recognize that this poster has been on the receiving end of some hostile and outright unkind posts. In a way I think he gets a perverted joy on getting people to reach that point (just like the other frequent TH
posters 'criticalbill','animalgirlisback',
'patriot','soothsayer',etc.) As Mike Gallagher(radio personality and TH columnist) has pointed out, the forum(in his case the radio station) reserves the right to decide what is within legitimate acceptable boundaries for their audience.

Townhall columns and blogs are a wonderful conservative source of information and exchange of ideas. Posters have the right to express an opinion. Other posters have the right to accept or reject the opinion. But neither has the right to trash one another or trash the columnist (which includes name calling, making fun of a person's screen name, insulting, using profanity, referring to others as idiots/morons, and so on.) Posters who participate in this behavior take a great deal out of the value of posting back and forth when they resort to attempts to take the forum into the sewer (well not for them since they are the ones getting a perverted kick out of their behavior.) MellorSJ has an agenda and it is to heap verbal destruction on anyone who dares cross swords with him or dares to disagree. Tolerance? Only is one thinks the same or kisses up to him. Sites like moveon.org and dailykos are filled with similar personalities as the above mentioned posters. Let these posters roam over there instead. They will feel right at home in that sea of negativity, hatefulness, and ugliness where decency and manners are rarely displayed.

still wrong despite pretence to be right
Tell you what: Stop the unprovoked attacks on gays and I'll stop telling you-all you're full of it. Just one of you tell Kathy she's an irrational deluded cow and I'll stop telling her how deranged she is. Keep the conversation focussed on how we can keep the liberals out of government, and you'll have my support.

Until then, put up with a dissenting voice, or show your true colors and make me go away. (Any ideas how many MellorSJ-n-'s there are? Zillions! All I need is an email address.)

Litmus Test
For years, I've considered anything that the unrepentent drunkard from Massachusetts favors to be bad for the country. John McCain has to be on that list too.

Robert
Money is not speech, but it is quite an amplifier of speech. If I want to get my speech heard, I have to broadcast it and that requires money. Prior to the McCain-Feingold Amendment I had the right of freedom of speech but now I can't voice my opinion about an issue or a politician before an election when it really counts. I also used to have the right to freely associate with others of a similar mind. According to John McCain that puts an unnecessary burden on government. "Imagine the gall of those little people out there expecting the big and powerful senators to listen to them."...John McCain, 2003.

will, I do believe you
are incorrect, but then again, anyone who dares to voice an opinion opposite the homosexual community is usually characterized as such. I take responsiblity for my posts, but other than the few times I let myself get tangled in your web on one of Matt Barber's columns I have not resorted to the verbal tactics used by you and yours. That ugliness was certainly not something I am proud of, nor would I wish to repeat. As usual you twist your words to try and make yourself appear to be the innocent, but nothing could be further from the truth (and you know this.)

Robert
I believe you're a bit of an extremist. Just curious, how do you describe your politics by comparison to others? Socially liberal, economically conservative, libertarian, what?

You have a right to your own opinion. However, you must know that when you say

"that viewpoint is a ridiculous one"

about a case whose reasoning is at the basis of an entire generation of jurisprudence (as is the case with Griswold v Connecticut), then yours is a fringe opinion. It may be a ridiculous point of view, but it's the US Supreme Court's ridiculous point of view, not mine, and your argument is with them.

I do recognize this about my own opinions, by the way. I personally think the Supreme Court's opinion in Griswold was over the edge into personal opinion; I think the state has every Constitutional right to ban contraception if it chooses, however ill-advised the attempt may be. Contraception has nothing whatsoever to do with the exercise of any Constitutionally protected right, and the Constitution leaves all such matters "to the states, or to the people," per the 10th Amendment. But I know that the concept of penumbral rights has valid applications.


Wow, MellorSJ...
MellorSJ wrote: "Just one of you tell Kathy she's an irrational deluded cow and I'll stop telling her how deranged she is."

Gotta love that: it's OUR fault that MellorSJ writes insulting posts about Kathy. If we just insulted her ourselves, he wouldn't have to!

That's a pretty comfortable universe you live in, there, Mellor, with all your moral responsibility resting on other people...

By the way, MellorSJ...
...do you realize that your nickname makes it easy to confuse you with a Jesuit? Jesuit priests often sign their names "So-and-so, SJ," where "SJ" stands for "Society of Jesus." Honestly, the first time I saw you post, I started reading for Catholicisms.

Since the very thought of a person of religious faith sets your teeth on edge, you might consider changing your nick...

The Little Rat
Romney and McCain and Feingold are evil read Savage Nation and see what people like this want for you, S.U. Soldiers Beheaded by subhuman enemy see the pictures of our guys, Look at what we are fighting to stop is bush helping YES HE IS THE OTHER SIDE.

Understand this bill for mass political race Amnesty is total evil against you. Mexico City is helping Bin Laden with Bush behind all the actions of evil third world rulers.

not ashamed to be right:
I'm not making excuses for Mellor or anyone else. I simply explained why posts get flagged and pulled, and stated it's not a practice I use.

I fail to see how that can be construed as "making excuses".


will
We certainly understand your passionate feelings. You're wrestling with the question of whether you can accept yourself as "good" (something we all have to do), with a huge "not normal" indicator in your face.

The problem we have is when you (that's a collective "you" as well as a particular one) bend facts in order to try to force the rest of us to yell "YOU'RE NORMAL" in your ears.

Society does not exist for the purpose of helping you calm your inner angst, and social institutions are not yours to bend to your whim in vain attempts to make yourself feel normal. The things gay activists are doing, in this regard, affect all of us, and affect us in areas that are central to who we are as human beings.

You wrote: 'Only 34 years ago were we de-classified from being a "mental disorder"'

Can you accept that a number of us who understand science, the scientific process, and who care about truth, did not agree with that re-classification? That some of us are aware that it was accomplished, not by honest science, but by politics and mob activism? That we feel that the very foundations of our culture's ability to assess truth are being attacked by your quest for normalcy?

The question of who you are as a human being is not at issue here; we know you're human. But truth counts, and we feel you've attacked it. THAT is why we're passionate about the gay agenda; not because we're "phobic," or because we're ignorant, or because we hate you. Because we care -- deeply -- about truth.

will, by the way...
Please understand that I'm writing from a position of very personal knowledge. I'm a recovering (hetero)sex addict myself. I understand addictions, and I understand personally the need to accept one's self, even if that self has done some awful things.

The problem is (or perhaps, the fortunate thing is) that, having been an addict myself, I understand the process of denial, and recognize it when I see it. So, when I post statistics about the average sexual behavior of homosexuals based on genuine research, and all the gays on the channel say "That's not the way it is" -- well, I suppose it's not IMPOSSIBLE that a dozen different researchers all got it wrong in the same direction, but it's a LOT more plausible that they all got it right, and the (homosexual) sex addicts are behaving like sex addicts, and denying their issues.

Okay?
Boy this thread sure got off track...I was only gone for a little while...LOL! Hi Will and everybody, hope you are well. Somebody tell Mellor to stick a sock in it!

Clyde
McCain Feingold was appealed. It was taken directly to the US Supreme Court and it was upheld. We are stuck with it until or unless the Congress repeals it.

Robert
What I provided was a literal interpretation of the Constitution. The 1st Amendment was designed to protect the rights of all citizens to redress their government as well as to freely worship their God and provide freedom of the press. Did you think the 1st Amendment was designed to protect pornography, blasphemous art, flag burning and profanity?

Brian, you are correct.
I was reading in between the lines and as such made an incorrect judgement. My apologies for making this assumption.

inkling_revival, thank you
for your eloquent response to will. You stated your opinion with graciousness and kindess, and I believe you stated it better than any other post I have come across in a long time on this issue.
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