Townhall.com, Where Your Opinion Counts
Talk Radio:   Bill Bennett   Mike Gallagher   Dennis Prager   Michael Medved   Hugh Hewitt   
BREAKING NEWS  LeftArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican   RightArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican  
Columns, funnies & more in your inbox!
  • Check the boxes and send us your email address to receveive your free newsletter
  • Your daily must-read of conservative columns, cartoons and news. Coulter, Sowell, Krauthammer and more.
  • Townhall.com’s weekly inside scoop on what’s happening behind the scenes in the world of politics. When news breaks, we report.
  • Signup to receive the latest daily Townhall cartoons
Thursday, December 14, 2006
Hugh Hewitt :: Townhall.com Columnist
The elections of 2028: What did you do when America was attacked?
by Hugh Hewitt
Vote on It:
Average Vote:
[+] Text [-]
 
Poll
Will the Dems' health care Christmas Present to America be an improvement or detriment to our health care system?


Biola University hosted GodBlogCom 2.0 this past October, and it featured a panel discussion that became a genuine conversation with the audience. The panelists included Professor John Mark Renolds, the director of the university’s Torrey Honors Program, blogger LaShawn Barber, and the then-candidate for United States Senate in New Mexico, Dr. Allen McCullough. The audience included some very fine intellects, including Joe Carter, Andy Jackson and John Schroeder, and many students.

Among the students were a number who were pursuing studies that would prepare them for public life of some sort, and some thought a run for elected office might be a possibility.

As I recall, one question from the floor concerned the rules a young, politically ambitious blogger might want to follow on his or her blog. I responded as I always do to that question by cautioning the younger writers that blogs are forever, cached away in google or some other server somewhere, and almost certain to return if not in your first job interview, then certainly in the context of any serious campaign for any serious office. The young blogger is best served by “finding the good and praising it,” to borrow from author Alex Haley, rather than to slag and singe opponents or denounce other people’s positions.

But then I paused and raised the question of a much more serious nature for the young, ambitious undergrad: Had you considered military service?

I am a civilian. It never occurred to me to consider enlisting after my graduation from college in 1978. In the post-Vietnam era, the military continued to attract amazing men and women who felt the call to serve in uniform, but the country was at peace, and even for those of us who thought the Cold War a very serious business, that conflict was not the preserve of just the military. Tens of thousands served in that struggle who never put on a uniform, and it was honorable service.

Though the anti-military left has thrown around the term “chickenhawk” in an attempt to damage the political careers of many Vietnam-era politicians who did not serve in the military, it has never had traction outside of the fever swamp, and even within that narrow slice of American politics, the charge marks the user as one of the nutters, given that the premise of the American republic is civilian control of the military, and especially as veterans rarely --and active duty men and women never-- make that charge, understanding it to be both typically duplicitous in that it is offered by many who do not esteem the military, and deeply at odds with the basic structure of the country. Responsible Americans generally honor and admire military service, and value it in candidates, but the lack of military service has never disqualified a candidate, not even one who went very far out of his way to avoid the Vietnam era draft, as Bill Clinton did.

Even given that history, I argued somewhat off-the-cuff to the Biola audience, it seemed to me that this was a different time than the Vietnam era, and certainly very different from the long years of peace that followed the abandonment of Saigon to the communists and Cambodia to the genocidal Pol Pot.

My guess, I told them, was that in the not so distant future senior elected offices --in the Congress, statehouses, and certainly the presidency-- would be very difficult to obtain for the young men of today who did not volunteered to come to the defense of their country after it had been attacked on 9/11.

Not impossible, but very difficult. Very, very difficult.

This came as a genuine surprise to many in the audience, and provoked quite a lot of argument. I explained that the failure to serve would not be a bar to a successful life in many other fields, but that politics was unique in that it requires the consent of voters, and voters generally look for leadership. I don’t think it is a stretch to conclude that young men who declined the opportunity to serve in uniform during this war will find themselves being asked “Why didn’t you come to the defense of your country after it was attacked?” I asked the young men who were objecting to my proposition to consider the answers they would be giving in a few years.

“Different gifts,” or “not my calling” were a couple of the –very—tentative responses, but of course those are not responsive to the idea that indeed the military service is a sacrifice of self to country, and that the question would not be satisfactorily replied to by reference to personal inconvenience.

“I want to serve a different way,” was a better response, but the specifics of that service would matter a great deal –intelligence gathering or law enforcement are not inconsistent with military service, for example.

“It is a volunteer army,” is another non-responsive dodge: Of course it is. The question is why didn’t you volunteer?

“I wouldn’t be any good at it,” was my favorite. The answer is of course that the military could be the judge of that if you give them the opportunity to conduct an assessment.

Physical infirmity would be a sufficient answer if the disability was serious enough, but family circumstances, probably not in most instances. As David McCullough recounts in his biography of Harry Truman, Truman had served in the Missouri National Guard and had been discharged, his father had died and he was the key to the operation of his family’s large and difficult to operate farm on which his mother and sister depended. He was also engaged.

But when America went to war in 1917, Truman immediately signed up and was off to Europe.

It was what you did then, and again in the aftermath of the attack on Pearl Harbor. You served. And had Truman, JFK or Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan or Bush not done so, it is impossible to imagine them rising as they did. Only when the “war” in question became discredited did the value attached to service in it diminish, and then not entirely, and not at all for some.

“Wasn’t this war like Vietnam,” was another objection that came from the audience. Though some on the left might see it as such, 9/11 makes that a very hard case to make, and even the political controversy around Iraq cannot diminish the fact that the enemy is real and relentless.

The conversation carried on for some time and included all of the panel participants and many of the other older participants in the conference. It continued even afterwards at a reception. It had disturbed many of the young men. I have had similar conversations since with many other young men (and I do think it will be an issue only for young men –the subject of another column.) It is usually disturbing to them too, unless they have already felt the call of duty and acted upon it or resolved to do so at the conclusion of college.

The reason it discomforts so many is that it is a conversation about duty, and also a conversation about courage. The former idea is alien to a lot of young Americans, and no one enjoys even an implied rebuke to their own courage.

Yesterday I received an e-mail from one of the young men in that Biola audience. He is off to a very fine graduate school of business –and into the Naval Reserve as an officer candidate. He told me that good arguments have consequences, and that the discussion that night had changed his life’s course.

My suspicion is that the debate that night would only have such an effect on students who had had professors like John Mark Reynolds, who quite regularly encourages his students to consider military service, and who have thought long and hard on what an attack on your country means, and on the ideas of duty and the virtue of courage.

I hope others will raise this issue with men under the age of 25, especially those who might not see themselves in a uniform.

I raised the idea of the duty of military service in a time of war in an on-air conversation with Dr. Larry Arnn, president of Hillsdale College this week (you can listen to our conversation which began with a review of what to look for in a college), and he immediately reminded me of Lt. Tom Cotton, who was completing his education and was busy building his legal career as grads of Harvard Law like to do when America was attacked. Lt. Cotton enlisted, but only after receiving the assurance that he would be a combat officer, not a lawyer with a rank. He is serving still, and is a fine example of what America will be admiring and honoring over the next few decades, especially as it chooses its leaders, especially if –as seems certain—this present war continues for a generation.

I suspect it will be the Tom Cottons who dominate the politics of the middle of this century if the country survives with its present institutions in tact (another column), and with good cause. They will be asking for the votes of men and women they have previously served in more perilous times and from far more perilous locations than Washington, D.C.

And I suspect that will matter. A lot.

Share:
Vote on It:
Average Vote:
 
About The Author

Hugh Hewitt is host of a nationally syndicated radio talk show. Hugh Hewitt's new book is The War On The West.

Be the first to read Hugh Hewitt's column. Sign up today and receive Townhall.com delivered each morning to your inbox.

I Pray It Is True
From the darkest visions of where America is headed under the opressive message from the MSM this image provides immeasurable hope.

Pray that it is so
It isn't military service that is lacking in our young men, but rather moral courage, but I agree that military service is a good indicator, especially in these narcissistic times, that a man might actually possess this quality.

I found it interesting that the same excuses are given when asked why we don't evangelize anymore.

Perhaps there is still hope if enough young men arise with the necessary ingredients in their spirit to resist the onslaught of our permissive culture's spiritually debilitating influences.

Perhaps out of the home schooling subculture? One can only pray that this is so.

If "Hey Hey Ho Ho" is involved
in his answer, he will never get my vote.

I suffered through the Sixties surrounded even in Bible College by chanting Ponytail Hippies and I earnestly pray that once my generation gives up the reins of power, this particular spasm will end. A man who immediately thinks of enlisting or who starts asking "What can I do?" meaning give me a task, not oh I'm so helpless, is the man I want to hear from.

fighting a pc war
Different gifts, not my calling, I want to serve in a different way are legitiimate reasons as our armed services are voluntary . Considering we have the MSM and people like John Kerry and John Murtha who loathe the military and portray our men and women who do serve as the evil enemy and telling them they must fight this war politically correct by not shooting the enemy until they are shot at first, it's amazing we still have so many brave and courageous men and women who risk all to be a part of this best in the world voluntary military.

?
Forgive my stupidity but I see MSM on here all the time and have still not figured out what it means.

Conservative Liberal
MSM=Mainstream Media

Good advice left undeveloped
“…cautioning the younger writers that blogs are forever, cached away in google or some other server somewhere, and almost certain to return if not in your first job interview, then certainly in the context of any serious campaign for any serious office. The young blogger is best served by “finding the good and praising it,” to borrow from author Alex Haley, rather than to slag and singe opponents or denounce other people’s positions.”

This excellent advice, unfortunately, was not developed further. Imagine yourself interviewing a blogger-job applicant who had written some of the self-righteous, nutty posts we have all seen. The obvious questions are:

What kind of employee would this person be?
Has this person demonstrated maturity and good judgment?
Do we want this person representing us?

These are the same questions voters would ask years later about a candidate when the circumstances and the passions of the moment are forgotten – and all that remain are intemperate, rude statements impugning parentage, patriotism, intelligence, and ultimate residence (Heaven or Hell) of all who don’t agree with the writer.

Courage....or lack thereof
It has always been my considered opinion that young men who are opposed to military service, especially in time of war, are doing so in response to the recognition, within themselves, of a courage deficiency. They intuitively know what their duty is, however they lack the courage to do what they know is right. In order to justify their inaction and dereliction, they attempt to devalue the contributions of others while proclaiming moral superiority for themselves

This was certainly true during the Viet Nam era. I believe the violent nature of anti war protests was, to a degree, fulfilling a need for these people to place themselves in harm's way, but choosing the relative safety of a college campus demonstration or throwing rocks at a police line.


boomer
Good thought. 19 year old boys tend to express their beliefs physically. They join the service, go out for football, or riot. or mug old ladies. Only the character driving the action is different. Warriors choose positive expression. Cowards and hoodlums choose the negative.

Thanks
This is one of the first columns I've read in a few months that left me with a positive feeling.

Thanks!

History
will be no kinder to those advocating negotiations, rather than effective combat, with the jihadis, than it is to Chamberlain, who negotiated with Hitler. This will only trash the legacy of Pelosi, Baker and the ISG. Nobody remembers the names of the young men who declared they would not fight for England. They fought when due to the results of their foolishness, they had to.

A future career enhancement
Note to college students, if you don't find employment in your chosen field upon graduation consider a stint in the military, any branch. Upon completion of your first enlistment period you will have gained work experience, making you even in the job market, and leadership experience, putting you ahead in the job market.

Besides, and I can say this from experience, you have a feeling, be it ever so light, of superiority over those who could have but didn't serve.

Thanks, Hugh,
A excellent article and insight. I was a kid in the late 40's and 50's and remember the question, "What did your dad do in the war?"
The fact that my dad helped build bombers didn't seem like enough compared to some of the others. (I later realized that I was a draft deferment and my sister was another when the rules changed.)

The present war has the potential to be as big as WWII (and a whole lot uglier on the home front). I hope that future voters will look to those who saw a duty and acted on it for the country's leaders.

Badge of Honor
.....Kraut...

.....Serving in the military is a plus on any resume ...I served during the draft era when you were RA if you enlisted and US if you were drafted ...I always felt better about the fact that I volunteered for service instead of waiting to be drafted .....COLOSSUS

Join the Military and meet America
Speaking as a 20-year veteran, another great benefit of military service is working with people from all walks of American life. There aren't many professions that I know of where a person can rub shoulders with people from a such a wide variety of races, ethnicities, social backgrounds, religions, education, lifestyles, and levels of affluency.

What better experience is there for a budding politician (or anyone for that matter)?

Whatev.....I beg to differ
Let's see, Clinton actually dodged the draft and that was OK. Bush served in the Air National Guard, subject to activation. Bush flew one of the most difficult weapons systems in the US arsenal at the time. However, that is somehow viewed as inferior to John Kerry's service of 14 weeks in Viet Nam. I'm going to assume that service was honorable, in spite of the evidence to the contrary.

So......does now the point become the kind of service? We do not want to get into the fiasco of claiming any service to our country as less or greater than any other's contributions. This discussion needs to be kept very binary, either you served or you didn't. I served in a B-52 Wing during Viet Nam and I claim no more or no less credit than any clerk, cook, military policeman or F4 driver who served during that period.

Following my release from the military, I was in a position of hiring technical people and I can say, unapologetically, that any veteran with pertinent experience went right to the top of my list......and I was never, in 38 years, sorry.

While I would never support a career Military man for high level leadership position in government, my default position is to assign greater credibility to those who have served and wait to be proven wrong.

The hypocrisy meter did swing wildly, but it wasn't from Hugh's Column.

Travel teaches too.
[h]Speaking as a 20-year veteran, another great benefit of military service is working with people from all walks of American life.[/h]

Absolutly right macfan1950!

Not only that but for most people Isreal, the Middle East, even Europe are just things they have heard about. Many of our military have been there and touched these places, and met the people. For them these places a far more real than to people who have only seen them on TV.

When the news talks about Saudi Arabia, and you have been there, it just means more to you.

http://www.givemetheinfo.com/Christmas-prank-gifts/

Eisenhower was Career Military
Of course, so was Grant.

Whatev posted
that, " John Kerry served in Vietnam, and while no friend to the troops since then, clearly has more of a substantial military background than President Bush, " and " Bush got a sweetheart assignment in the Guard when most American troops were off to far more dangerous places. "

So the logic of your argument is that Bush wore the uniform of his country as a fighter pilot but is somehow less qualified than John Kerry, who served in RVN for 4 months and whose service record raises a considerable number of questions regarding its veracity.

Logically, your argument suggests that if Bush's military service was a "sweetheart deal" and not worthy of anything more than contempt, then the hundreds of thousands of other Americans who put on the boots and served in the National Guard and reserves are just as bad.

I served more time in the chow line in RVN than Kerry did in his whole "combat" career. I take exception to his contrived and, IMHO, phony combat record.

So GWB didn't get across the pond to RVN. He served, IMHO, more honorably than Kerry.

Courage?
I don't see any liberals screaming for concealed weapons and AK-47's. Liberals didn't color code our nations fear, I think we're appropriatly yellow today but then I don't pay attention to irrational behavior or the religously self-righteous.

a chickenhawk
Quoting Mr. Hewitt:
"Though the anti-military left has thrown around the term 'chickenhawk' in an attempt to damage the political careers of many Vietnam-era politicians who did not serve in the military, it has never had traction outside of the fever swamp, and even within that narrow slice of American politics, ..."

Mr. Hewitt left out a key element of being a chickenhawk: a chickenhawk is one who did not serve in the military BUT IS GUNG-HO ABOUT GOING TO WAR and sending others to kill or be killed.

People who are not seen as chickenhawks:
Colin Powell, John McCain, John Kerry, Al Gore, Bill Clinton, George H.W. Bush, Donald Rumsfeld (served in the Navy)

People who are seen as chickenhawks:
George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter


Another point: when those students ask if this war isn't like Vietnam, they are talking about Iraq, not the war on terror as a whole. Mr. Hewitt told them: "Though some on the left might see it as such, 9/11 makes that a very hard case to make, and even the political controversy around Iraq cannot diminish the fact that the enemy is real and relentless."

This continued conflation of 9/11 and Iraq is very disturbing. Yes, the enemy from 9/11 is real, but they are now in Iraq only because our attack and then our gross negligence turned it into a Petri dish of Islamist terrorism. Sadly, our inability to get the job done because of our unnecessary dalliance in Iraq has meant the same thing may be happening again in Afghanistan, which WAS clearly a part of 9/11.

These young people are right to point that out: Iraq is Vietnam. The sleight of hand at saying Iraq is necessary as part of the War on Terror is an obfuscation of the criticism: Iraq wasn't; it now is only because we completely screwed up.

And that brings me to the last point: you are telling a group of people so strong in their Christian faith that they eschew better-known universities for a chance at a solid Christ-centered foundation that — because of our improper conflation of Iraq with 9/11 — that to be public servants they should train to kill people and quite possibly go and use that skill.

THAT is the sad legacy of this administration. Bring on Brownback, please.

CaptnNed
CaptnNed, your comment, "I don't see any liberals screaming for concealed weapons and AK-47's" probably has more to do with the fact that most liberals wet their pants at the mere sight of a weapon than it does with ideology.

purplestater.....
"Yes, the enemy from 9/11 is real, but they are now in Iraq only because our attack and then our gross negligence turned it into a Petri dish of Islamist terrorism"

I suppose you would rather see us fighting them in our own country. Sadly, if this attitude continues to permeate our population, this will become reality.

Bush did volunteer for VN...
but the F-102 aircraft he was trained and qualified in was not being used there, so he was turned down.

Conservative liberal
>I see MSM on here all the time and have still not figured out what it means.

It means you get all your news from Fox and Rush.

G.W.'s service
Wasn't Bush one the director of the CIA during the time GW was in the service? Wouldn't it have been a national crisis if he had been captured when his Dad was in such a position? Someone tell me if I am wrong.

Chickenhawks
I for one am sick and tired of hearing the whole "chickenhawk" thing, mainly from the Left. Is is cheesy for someone to avoid military service and yet strongly advocate it? On the surface, yes, but, as the Left is SOOOO good at doing, accusing pundits and politicos of chickenhawkism DISTRACTS from what those people are saying, which oftentimes is sensible. IN other words, just because someone has not served does NOT automatically make their opinions and thoughts invalid. It may be cheesy to BE a chickenhawk, but is is more cheesy to call names rather than refute what your opponent is saying...

Would I prefer our leaders who direct our military to have served? Certainly. But I am not going to vote a flipflopping weasel like Kerry, who has proven lately that he IS a weasel, into office over Bush, who has proven lately that he will fight if the situation merits it. After all, if he and Cheney WERE just warmongering chickenhawks, we would also be stomping into North Korea, Syria, Iran, and a few other places as well. We would probably also start the draft again, too, and despite the rumors about that coincidentally going around right about election time, it ain't happened.

There are very valid, strategical reasons we are in Iraq, and if the Left chooses to poo-poo those then that is their choice. I for one see the strategy inherent in our being there. (the mere fact that AL Quaeda is also there SHOULD be enough for most rational people. It does not matter if they weren't there before, they are there NOW, and not over HERE.) And for all their bluster and public opposition, Democratic leaders also see that strategy. Even if Hitlery makes it into the white house in 2008. Which means, for all you "WE WON!" liberals out there, no major changes are going to be forthcoming. They will not withdraw any faster than Bush would've, and they will say it is because of "the Iraqi people. We do not want to just abandon these people".

Yes, the whole chickenhawk argument is total BS. The thing that has me sickest is, they have repeated this mantra so often, that they have now evidently gotten conservatives to believing it, too, if this column is any indication. Sad.

DavidMac
Well said on your service in the RVN.


Whatev
Whatev,

I helped carry the remains of 11 Marines killed in a helo crash in the early 80's, in a training accident. They were just as dead as Marines killed in action oh, and BTW, they were reservists.

So, if you think that Bush had it easy zipping along in a supersonic interceptor, you might want to ask a few of the pilots who flew them. I believe the term "rocket with wings" applies to that aircraft.

Next, Bush volunteered to go to VN. That is pure fact. Period. Fortunately for him, the need for a high-speed interceptor was nil.

Now, do you have ANY experience in seeing how pilots are trained, other than watching "An Officer and a Gentleman?"

They have to qualify per aircraft type. Thus, Bush would have had to undergo retraining in, say, an F-105 or F-4, but why would he if his current unit flew F-106's? Since it costs MONEY and TIME to retrain a pilot, why do it unless there is a crucial need?

Lastly, Hanoi John Kerry came back after a 90 tour of Vietnam, with a few tiny scars. My neighbor, BTW, has severe scarring from a B-40 rocket and guess what? HE STILL DID HIS 13 MONTHS!

My neighbor and Bush DID NOT:

1. Come home and hang out with Hanoi Jane, WHO, BTW, is directly responsible for the torturing of three American POW's when she ratted them out.

2. Toss SOMEONE ELSE's medals at the WH.

3. Give FALSE testimony to the Senate thus maligning Vietnam Vets for decades.

4. Sell out the POW's/MIA's.
http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0408,schanberg,51276,1.html

5. Insult the troops several times, the latest just a few weeks ago.

But Hanoi John DID. Now, you got that or do I need to break it down Barney-style for you?

Whatev
Whatev,

I helped carry the remains of 11 Marines killed in a helo crash in the early 80's, in a training accident. They were just as dead as Marines killed in action oh, and BTW, they were reservists.

So, if you think that Bush had it easy zipping along in a supersonic interceptor, you might want to ask a few of the pilots who flew them. I believe the term "rocket with wings" applies to that aircraft.

Next, Bush volunteered to go to VN. That is pure fact. Period. Fortunately for him, the need for a high-speed interceptor was nil.

Now, do you have ANY experience in seeing how pilots are trained, other than watching "An Officer and a Gentleman?"

They have to qualify per aircraft type. Thus, Bush would have had to undergo retraining in, say, an F-105 or F-4, but why would he if his current unit flew F-106's? Since it costs MONEY and TIME to retrain a pilot, why do it unless there is a crucial need?

Lastly, Hanoi John Kerry came back after a 90 tour of Vietnam, with a few tiny scars. My neighbor, BTW, has severe scarring from a B-40 rocket and guess what? HE STILL DID HIS 13 MONTHS!

My neighbor and Bush DID NOT:

1. Come home and hang out with Hanoi Jane, WHO, BTW, is directly responsible for the torturing of three American POW's when she ratted them out.

2. Toss SOMEONE ELSE's medals at the WH.

3. Give FALSE testimony to the Senate thus maligning Vietnam Vets for decades.

4. Sell out the POW's/MIA's.
http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0408,schanberg,51276,1.html

5. Insult the troops several times, the latest just a few weeks ago.

But Hanoi John DID. Now, you got that or do I need to break it down Barney-style for you?

oops
My burst.

F-106's = F-102's.

DaveMac
>So the logic of your argument is that Bush wore the uniform of his country as a fighter pilot but is somehow less qualified than John Kerry, who served in RVN for 4 months


Bush missed a lot of drills and was
U'ed out..his service is suspect. Kerry, who legitimately won the purple heart, was discharged honorably.

nanrae
your wrong.HW Bush served Gerald Ford’s Director of Central Intelligence (DCI) from November 1975 to January 1977, 3 years after the fall of Siagon

Young people serving
My son had a life changing experience also in similar circumstances. David Gergen spoke at my son's college in a similar vain. My son had not joined the ROTC program and expressed no interest in joining the military, so he had to borrow money to pay for his portion of the cost of his education. During spring break in his senior year he informed his mother and I that he would enlist in the Army after graduation. He subsequently found out that he would have to wait for OCS, so he went in as an enlisted man. He was sent to Korea for a year and was asked to stay with an increase in rank (and pay). He instead went to Fort Hood, TX and deployed two weeks ago to Iraq. He said to me, when I asked him about his choices, it was his turn.

whatev
" ........... I DON'T BUY IT."
YOU MIGHT NOT BUY IT , BUT I DO !!!!!!!!!
kerry is without doubt the biggest
pile of dog crap that I have
ever seen. The Swift Boat guys
hit the nail on the head.

WHY?
Did J.F'n Kerry get his discharge via Jimmy Carter?
Something about the time line doesn't compute.
Look it up!

You’re kidding yourself
If you think politics and human nature will change much by 2028. Each side will attack the other’s character with whatever they can. Too many, but not all, the character and accomplishments of the individual candidate pale in comparison to their agenda. Both left and right will resort to outright hypocrisy in some cases to denounce the opposition or support an ally; just like now-a-days.

What Gunny left out
Whatev,

Before you get too carried away in your comparison of Bush and Kery's military records, you should be aware of the following.

Kerry also:

1. only "volunteered for the Navy ROTC after his attempt to get an extension of his student deferment failed. He decide if he had to enter the military he'd rather go in as a Navy Officer than an Army boot.

2. volunteered for Swift Boat duty at a time when Swift Boats were NOT being used in combat.

3. became a malcontent as soon as he learned the mission of the Swift Boats had been changed to include missions upriver ("in country") that would involve combat.

4. put himself up for all of his purple hearts. These included at least two injuries that were treated with little more than band-aids. Kerry went to the base hospital to get his band-aids so there would be a record of his "wounds."

5. took a home movie camera to 'nam so he could shoot posed, phony, shameless promotions for his planned future career in politics.

6. spent his first of two years of required active duty on the USS Gridley, a supply ship that saw no action and was only in the waters near Vietnam for about a month while Kerry was on it. He later claimed this as a "tour" in Vietnam.

7. wrote a book called "The New Soldier" which was (is) such an indefensible, anti-patriotic, radical-leftist screed that he has since prohibited all attempts to have it re-published. He has also done his best to get all existing copies out of circulation.

8. promoted the "Winter Soldier" convention in which a group of phonies like himself lied about their own service in 'nam (some had never even been there) in order to inflate the credibility of their criticsm of US conduct of the war and their lies about war crimes they claim were committed by our troops.

9. attended another meeting of similar radicals in Kansas City, at which the possible assassination of US Senaotrs was discussed. He later denied being at this meeting but he was considered a potential threat to National Security and was thus followed there by the FBI, which had him under surveillance.

Finally, Bush's Guard service is NOT an issue because, unlike Kerry, Bush never posed himself for the job of President as a war hero. Ironically (and tellingly), Bush had no qualms about releasing his military records, but the supposed hero Kerry's records remain shrouded in secrecy because Kerry won't release them.

Vietnam replayed
I find it interesting that with Google available to all, simple facts seem to get lost in the chatter. Yes, I would also prefer veterans in leadership positions and I would most likely have a more favorable outlook on one who served when hiring. But I have visited Canada and spent a week at a resort in the late 1980's with a true blue draft dodger. We have a very civil and friendly week together and we did discuss politics. I have my doubts about Mr. Kerry, but they would not exist if he hadn’t lied about my fellow veterans and tried to inflate his war time experience; Cambodia and his CIA/SF hat for example. I can’t stand phoniness. Mr. Bush did not see combat; he volunteered, was turned down (as I was because of my MOS) but did not use his military experience as a main point in his running for elective office, unlike Mr. Murtha and Kerry. Those that do, I don’t trust; there are too many who brag but did not go there and do that; did not even sacrifice with the separation from home and family at a minimum. If any of you know a Navy Seal, you will know what I am talking about.

So we had better hope that our brave men and women in Iraq and elsewhere can defeat the enemy there or those that did not serve, just may find out what sacrifice is when the war comes to America again, but with a vengeance.

Fight 'em in Basra, not Boston!
"I suppose you would rather see us fighting them in our own country. Sadly, if this attitude continues to permeate our population, this will become reality."

Boomer, you missed the point entirely. According to the government's own accounts of what's happening now, our actions over there are pushing more and more people over to the dark side (Islamist terrorism).

So your rhetorical choice of fight them there or fight them here is a nonsensical one. How long before one of those newly inspired terrorist newbies brings it to our own country? The war in Iraq has made things more dangerous for us as Americans.

What would I rather see? I would rather have seen the Bush Administration concentrate on the real sources of terror instead of invading Iraq. But since I can't go back in time, I would rather see the Bush Administration admit going to war in Iraq was a huge error in judgement, lay out what those errors, clean up the mess, and then go home.

In 2002 and 2003, the War on Terror had no real relation to Iraq. It was a big lie to invade under those pretenses. That Iraq does now have terrorist operatives mixed in with the elements of power-grabbing civil war is only because of our own failures: first the failure to realize we didn't need to go in and that we shouldn't go in; second the failure to properly secure the country and restore it to working order.

And Afghanistan — the country we legitimately invaded — is now poised to fall back into the hands of our enemies (in part or in whole) because we don't have the resources to do it right... because of Iraq.

And on the subject of "fight 'em there so we don't have to fight 'em here," if that really were a grounded notion (i.e., that our fight over there was not engendering new anti-American hatred that would eventually generate new would-be suicide bombers against Americans), just how many REAL Iraqi civilians have to die in order to protect the hypothetical American in the United States who is being saved by us fighting terrorists over there?

Or for that matter, how many AMERICANS must die over there. Sometime early next year we might have reached a death toll that is TWENTY TIMES greater than the Oklahoma City bombing and surpassing the total of the 9/11 attacks. Even if "fighting them over there" weren't generating more terrorists, are we really protecting American lives at all?

No, I'm not in favor of getting the heck out now. I'm in favor of fixing what we screwed up, but part of that is acknowledging the extent — and it is wide and deep — of the screw-up itself.

the importance
Because of the Vietnam War, the left used to be highly allergic to anyone who was a career soldier. Temporary soldiers — Carter, for example — were okay.

But now the left fears the chickenhawk — the person who never served in combat but who is gung-ho about using the military in combat.

The left has realized that a wise career soldier who has seen combat — a military statesman, if you will — is far preferable to a chickehawk. A preference of Colin Powell or Shinseki or McCain over Cheney or Bush or Rush.

That career soldier, it is believed, would understand both the limitations of going to war and fighting a war for even the mightiest of nations, as well, it is hoped, of the first-hand horrors of war and why going to war should never be treated lightly.

The Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld folks thought (a) invading and occupying Iraq would be easy and (b) thought that a few thousand Iraqi lives were worth it for our aims. Can't make an omelette without breaking some eggs.

Oops. Did I say omelette? I meant "Scrambled Freedom Eggs."

Side Comments
I too disagree with using the term "chickenhawk." After all, as Calvin Trillion(not sure of the spelling) pointed out, the chickenhawk is a very brave bird. He suggested the term "sissyhawk" instead. I think it fits. And for the person who stated that Bush volunteered for VN, please show the documentation. The NG was not the place to be if you wanted to go to NAM. Everyone back then knew that.

Second, voters do not look for leadership. Rather, American voters look for two things: 1) promises of a rosey future; and 2) flattery--such as we are the greatest nation on the face of the earth. Essentially, voters are not looking for a leader but a fun date.

Service
Being a retired servicemember, I can say that the experience was the greatest of my life. I served in Kosovo and in Iraq, after bieng wounded and retireing I finally realized how much my service had meant to me and how I was changed because of it. I was also lucky enough to serve Regular Army and in the Army National Guard. Of the two I would have to say that the Guard was actually the more stressfull and demanding than RA. The reason is you are not only beholden to your service, but also, even more to your employer and community. So when weighing service time, as people like to do with President Bush and John Kerry, Mr. Bush I believe is the better man. He knew that he could be called up at any time to leave his home and family.

Another lib double standard
So Clinton's not a chickenhawk?

The guy who dodged the draft and then, after becoming President, ramped up our mission in Somalia and sent troops to Haiti, Rwanda, Bosnia, and Kosovo gets a pass from the left.

But Ann Coulter, who has never said women should be treated the same as men, never said women should serve in the armed forces, and who never sent any troops anywhere, is a chickenhawk because she agrees with the judgment of the current Commander-in-Chief about how best to "provide for a common defense".

Another liberal double standard at work. I notice how NO leftists of any kind, even those who have used the military without consulting Congress, NATO, or the UN, can qualify as "chickenhawks". (Did LBJ serve in the armed forces? If not, why isn't he on your list of "chickenhawks"?)

Oddly enough, I agree with purplestater (who is blatantly blue-state despite his dishonest nickname) that Clinton is not a "chickenhawk". Clinton is a chickensh*t.

BTW
Happy 370th Birthday to the National Guard!!!!!

Thank you, GunnyG
for the kind words.

Wiseone, I'm LOL at your post!! ("Clinton is not a "chickenhawk". Clinton is a chickensh*t.") Good shot!!

naked pagan posted
that, " Kerry, who legitimately won the purple heart, was discharged honorably. "

Kerry got his "honorable" discharge in 1978. His service obligation expired in 1972. Why 6 years late? Could it be that he received a LESS THAN HONORABLE discharge, and later had it upgraded? Or was Kerry under a DoD flag all those years?

Kerry's PH's are certainly suspect. He did NOT get them as a result of hostile enemy fire, which is the pre-requisite for the award.

Kerry, as an officer, was required to write after-action reports. His superiors awarded those medals based on KERRY'S reports, not on what they personally observed.

Kerry's military combat "career" smells real, real bad.

At least Bush volunteered for Vietnam. Kerry didn't. And there's no proof whatsoever that Bush was AWOL from the National Guard (DailyKos blogs don't constitute "proof"). Soldiers can, and do, miss meetings legitimately.

Whatev
Insults? Where?

Here is something from WLTV.

September 26, 2004
Bush Volunteered for Vietnam?

One of the criticisms leveled at the President is that he sought guard service to keep him from serving in Vietnam.

Morrisey says, "not so."

"The Air Force, in their ultimate wisdom, assembled a group of 102's and took them to Southeast Asia. Bush volunteered to go. But he needed to have 500 [flight] hours, but he only had just over 300 hours so he wasn't eligible to go,” Morrisey recalls.

Despite that, Lieutenant Bush stayed busy.

"He flew in active air defense missions, training missions. Day, night, regardless of inclement weather," Morrisey says.

Colonel Morrisey assured us that to the best of his knowledge Lieutenant Bush was treated like any other officer in the Texas Air National Guard.

And he did it w/o maligning the USA OR giving aid and comfort to the enemy. Something that Hanoi John cannot do.

BTW, negotiating with the enemy, as Hanoi John did at the Paris Peace Talks is ILLEGAL under US Code. Yet another law broken. Not to mention that his discharge had to be UPGRADED by Carter. I wonder why?

Boomer, Naked Pagan and Conservative Lib
Boomer, you say, "While I would never support a career Military man for high level leadership position in government", it was Eisenhower who ordered the deportation of one or two million illegal aliens, and made sure it was carried out!

Naked Pagan in response to Conservative Liberal: I would word it slightly differently: "It means you are getting ALL the news from Fox and Rush, not like the MSM, i.e. CNN, CBS, NBC, ABC, PBS, who report only what they want you to know".


You should hear me arguing with the libs
wiseone, if you heard me talking with the libs, you'd swear I was a Reagan Republican (or at least a Reagan Democrat). You are just seeing one side of my multifaceted political viewpoints, and it's the side that doesn't care much for our Iraq debacle.

The term purplestater comes from, well, from being in a place that is red surrounded by blue. I'm a moderate. I think the side who warns against "cut and run" has merit, but they shoot their own argument apart by insisting that going into Iraq was necessary for the War on Terror and that if we back out, we're just letting the terrorists win, yada yada yada. Then I have to come up with more reasoned arguments why cleaning up our mess so we can leave with responsibility and dignity is the right thing to do.

President Johnson was an officer in the Navy Reserves during World War II and did work as a shipyard inspector. As a passenger on a plane when sent to Australia (?) he was shot at by the Japanese; the plane he was supposed to be on was shot down and all killed.

But, he was not really in combat for more than this short period. On the whole, despite him being in the Navy Reserves, I think one could classify him as a chickenhawk.

And look what a debacle Vietnam turned into.

Leadership
I enjoyed this article and I'll comment on it in a moment.
First, though, I'd like to comment on the responses. I retired earlier this years after 22 years as an officer in the United States Army. I did not ship out to the Gulf War in 1991 because I was an Ordnance officer. I returned shortly before my retirement from my second tour in Iraq.
-To those who have never served, the Ordnance Corps are the people who are responsible for logistics, maintenance, supply, or to put it another way, we supply the beans, bacon, and bullets to the troops on the line, often under fire. Lest you think that less important than other branches such as Armor or Infantry, ask any other poster on this forum who has served in the military how bad your day can get if fuel and ammunition don't show up.
Here is my comment on the posts I have read here: If you are still arguing about the relative merits of the services of the President of Sen. Kerry, you just don't get it. The President is a lame duck, and Sen. Kerry has proven himself too tone deaf to be an effective leader. This constant intramural bickering between our political philosophies is pointless and a waste of mental energy that will be needed in times to come. You have become so focused on minute little philosophical victories for your "team" (D or R) that you have forgotten that we're supposed to be on the same team. Let me assure you that those that we face in the field in the Middle East have philosophical differences with each other, but they are NOT so obsessed with them that they lose sight of their views on the merits of killing US.
The political discourse in our country has become TV wrestling writ large. In TV wrestling everyone knows the outcome of the "matches" is fixed, but those who enjoy it (NOTE- not me)watch it for all the yelling and soap opera that accompanies it. Our politicians of late (R and D) have taken to yelling at each other and pointing out minute philosophical differences in party positions to keep the observer from noticing that they really aren't getting much done. If, two years after the fact, you are still arguing about the Bush and Kerry military records take note: you have been sucked in. Mentally tune out of the political TV wrestling show and take stock of the world at large. Please note that I have advocated no particular favor with regard to our political parties or philosophies. I have opinions, but I will not participate in the soap opera.

With regard to the article, the man is right. I will be the first to say that I am biased on the subject; the military was my profession. Nonetheless, leadership learned under fire imparts character, and it leaves a mark on a person after hostilities cease. When the test of your leadership skills involves responsibility for the lives of others, your priorities change. Of the elements of character required to be successful in the military, integrity is the most prized. (This is not to say that all who serve in the military have integrity, but the military system is very adept at weeding out those who do not have it.)
In my years of service, I have met (and lost) people whose character, intelligence, humanity, love, patriotism, AND LEADERSHIP constantly remind me of the better things in people I will always strive to find in myself.
Those kinds of experiences create leadership skills that people gravitate to, and always have.
-George Washington was given carte blanche to run the country and the Revolutionary War in any way he saw fit by the Continental Congress. Had he been a man of less character, he could have set himself up as a de facto king. However, his character and the leadership skills learned in military service kept those he led loyal under terrible circumstances. Washington was a proud man, he did not beg those under him to serve, he LED them with his bearing.
(Note- If you have time, read 1776, by James McCullough. I happened to pick it up in an airport recently, and could not put it down through the entire flight. The book discusses George Wahington, his mistakes and his triumphs in detail. SUPER read.)
-John F. Kennedy also gained character and leadership skill in adversity while in uniform.


zingen
Thank you! You are absolutely right.

Also with McCullough; his work is great and 1776 is his best.

cc
>Naked Pagan in response to Conservative Liberal: I would word it slightly differently: "It means you are getting ALL the news from Fox and Rush, not like the MSM, i.e. CNN, CBS, NBC, ABC, PBS, who report only what they want you to know".

Im sorry, when you are the number one cable news network, you ARE mainstream media.

You still haven't explained Clinton's...
exemption.

And no, I would not believe you are a Reagan Republican.

A moderate, yes, I can believe that. But in my vocabulary the word moderate is not a compliment.

According to Rush, a moderate is nothing more than a fence sitter who waits for a consensus to form so he can join it. And according to Margaret Thatcher , consensus is the absence of leadership.

The absence of ideology in today's [political climate is a symptom of liberalism, whose only ideology is their absolute insistence that they be in charge.

Nearly all of the true, useful debate is taking place on the right because that is where the are who want to develop and refine real ideas to improve society as opposed to re-write the rules to benefit themselves.

BTW - Vietnam was not a disater until Walter Cronkite declared the war lost (with about as much evidence as the left has for declaring Iraq lost today) and then , with help from other leftists, turned his declaration into a self-fulfilling prophecy that cost somewhere between 2 and 3 million asians their lives.

It is indicative of the policies of the American left that the catastrophic results of their chickensh*t foreign policies can only be estimated to the nearest million civilian lives lost, but then they have the unmitigated gall to criticize the Republicans for approximately 3,000 servicemen killed.

good column
I'm not sure that Hewitt is right, but it is possible he is, and it is certainly an interest idea. I think that whether military leadership plays this role will depend as much on where we are then as what is done now.

If we feel we are in a time of peace then military service will mean less. If we feel we are still fighting the same overall war, then it will mean more.

It will also probably depend on what percentage of people actually serve. If the great bulk of potential candidates and voters have not served, they may not like the implicit self-criticism involved in favoring those who have.

But regardless, Hewitt's challenge to his audience is a good one.

Hugh's Point
To whatev, and those who took issue with his Bush/Kerry comparison:

I think it interesting that your hypocrisy criticism simply reinforces the actual point Hugh was making. In citing Clinton as a present-day example, his point was that lack of military service is not today a disqualification for the presidency. So the Bush/Kerry comparison is quite irrelevant. His point was that this would NOT be the case in 2028, and that NOW was the time for anyone with an inkling of seeking political office in the coming decades to prepare for that eventuality.

I agree with Hugh that the tide of political opinion seems to be heading down that road, though the pendulum has only just now started to swing in that direction (to mix my metaphors).

Gunny
Not only was Kerry's talks with the VC in Paris a violation of US Code, it was a military crime just short of treason since he had not yet been formally discharged. I believe the charge would "consorting with the enemy during time of war".

A Rational (but Devious) Excuse?
Perhaps one reason for NOT volunteering for military service would be a pessimistic view that the liberals will gain such a hold of this country in the future that, in order to be a "stealth" candidate, one needs to actually NOT have past military service experience?

Of course, should things go that wrong in the future, one could argue that worrying about such nuisances as free elections won't be an issue.

Don't Forget the Camcorder
Of course, if someone with future political ambition DOES decide to enlist, they should follow Kerry's example and make sure they record their heroics for posterity. I suspect one could also find a source for purchasing Purple Heart medals on the web, as well.

Actually. . .
I disagree:
It is a blooming miracle that kids continue to enlist in the numbers they do.

The MSM
Hollywood
Academia and,
A great deal of our more popular Politicians on the left and the right.

All seem bend on cheapening military service from the highest selfless calling a man can receive to something unworthy of anyone with even half a brain.

I suspect that the sorry excuse "I did not enlist because killing is objectionable" would still be very popular in 2028. After all, the real enemy is our own culture of unqualified pacifism, political correctness and multiculturalism.

Since that culture is linked to our globalist ambitions, the possibility of a self-weakening America is very real.


Kerry and LBJ

.....wiseone...

.....all the negatives you posted about Kerry were true and yet, in spite of his record, he came within one State (Ohio) of being elected as President ...what does this say about the voters in this Country? ...(BushI flew B25s in WWII and Clinton was a draft dodger that wrote that he loathed the military) ...Bob Dole was a disabled hero from WWII and he also lost to Clinton so Honorable military service did not cut much ice with the voters when it came to Clinton ...in fact, with the Dem/Libs his loathing of the military might have been a plus ...

.....btw, LBJ served a short stint in the Navy in the Pacific during WWII ...this experience did not help him much in Vietnam .....COLOSSUS

Every conservative "discussion".........
.....about the military inevitably devolves into attacks on John Kerry. It is really a hoot. Even funnier is the claim that John Murtha "hates the military". This concerning a man who served 37 years in the military, won two Purple Hearts, aBronze Star with a Combat "V", and the Vietnamese Cross of Gallantry, and who supported every military campaign undertaken in his 32 years in Congress up until Iraq. Clearly, many conservatives are unable to discuss the merits of issues without striking out personally at those who disagree. Call it "Ann Coulter Syndrome".

As to Hugh's article, he raises some very interesting points. However, I think he discounts the power of an answer such as "I could not serve in the military, as a matter of conscience, because I so strongly disagreed with what my country did in Iraq". By the time 2028 rolls around, I believe history will have judged the invasion of Iraq to be a disastrous error which actually made the fight against radical Islamists worse, not better. And therefore, as others have said, while military service will always serve a political candidate well, it will never be decisive.

Trouble with Hewitt's article
Assume that a candidate with military experience has learned to become a leader because of that experience, doesn't the preference to candidates with military experience further the militarization of our society.

We already see this militarization in the news. Most of the analysts and consultants who inform us on Iraq are current military officers or veterans. There are at least 2 problems here. First, these analysts/consultants did not see the problems we are in now back when the invasion began. Perhaps they were short-sighted with some of what was needed in our positioning and policies towards Iraq. Compare that with those in the Peace movement or academia who predicted disastorous results from invading Iraq. So why don't we see more and more academics being used as consultants by the News organizations? They were right in the first place.

Second, military leaders specialize in war not nation building. They can tell us how to destroy or occupy. Their expertise stops there. Not that there are no examples of military leaders having contributed to nation building, but when they are the primary ones, we have limited ourselves to a small set of options from which to choose.

Finally, the more we rely on the military, the more militaristic we become and thus the more we will invite future disasters like the one we have in Iraq. Would it not be neat if there was at least one network that had an equal number of peace leaders analyzing what was going on in Iraq as Military leaders. Would it not be neat if we had at least one network that was fair and balanced rather than all networks providing a pro-militaristic bias to Iraq.

If we need a variety of views in order to sufficiently report the news, do we not need the same for political leaders in this country. Hewitt's guess about the future is really a nightmare.

Conscience
"I could not serve in the military, as a matter of conscience because....... Hmmmmm. No matter how you finish that sentence it still sounds like "I hid behind a principle whose merits are so completely subjective that they cannot be assailed."
I guess that sounds better than "I acknowledge that there are others of my countrymen who are willing to place their lives in the balance to protect my future, but while I "support" those darn troops, I lack the courage or conviction to join them."
But after all, if your name is to be credited, you are a lawyer. If YOU joined the fight, who'd be left here champion any cause or belief- at least to the extent of the client's last dollar.

laborlawyer
First of all your handle says it all. Nothing WORST that landshark who backs big labor. Pay off temp workers to picket Walmart lately?

Second, you stated: "I believe history will have judged the invasion of Iraq to be a disastrous error which actually made the fight against radical Islamists worse, not better."

And what is YOUR plan to stop Islamic terrorism? Ask them pretty-please? Or just accept Dhimmi status? Please, inform us.

How do you stop Saddam from paying the families of palestinian suicide bombers 25,000 USD for EACH KID BLOWN UP? Give him 12 more YEARS of sanctions that really only affected the Iraqis since France, Germany, Russian, with UN backing (Oil-for-Food scammage), were bypassing the resolutions.

I know that you liberals hate Jews and really don't care about suicide bombers blowing up Israeli school buses full of innocent children but it also helped to keep the region unstable.

How do you stop Saddam from killing 36,000 of his own people a YEAR? Ask him to play nice? Beg and whine?

How do you keep his sons from raping, torturing, murdering innocent people? Get the ACLU to sue em?

Personally, I'm quite happy that his verminous sons are pushing up daisies and that he is gonna swing from a rope. But then again, I saw tiny bits of bone, brain, meat, skin, etc, where Iraqis executed Kuwaitis in 90/91. Being insulated in your little ivory tower, working to turn productive businesses in unproductive unionized shops, might leave you a little uninformed.

GunnyG
OOOO-RAAA Gunny.
I enjoyed this article and I'll comment on it in a moment.
First, though, I'd like to comment on the responses. I retired earlier this years after 22 years as an officer in the United States Army. I did not ship out to the Gulf War in 1991 because I was an Ordnance officer. I returned shortly before my retirement from my second tour in Iraq.
-To those who have never served, the Ordnance Corps are the people who are responsible for logistics, maintenance, supply, or to put it another way, we supply the beans, bacon, and bullets to the troops on the line, often under fire. Lest you think that less important than other branches such as Armor or Infantry, ask any other poster on this forum who has served in the military how bad your day can get if fuel and ammunition don't show up.
Here is my comment on the posts I have read here: If you are still arguing about the relative merits of the services of the President of Sen. Kerry, you just don't get it. The President is a lame duck, and Sen. Kerry has proven himself too tone deaf to be an effective leader. This constant intramural bickering between our political philosophies is pointless and a waste of mental energy that will be needed in times to come. You have become so focused on minute little philosophical victories for your "team" (D or R) that you have forgotten that we're supposed to be on the same team. Let me assure you that those that we face in the field in the Middle East have philosophical differences with each other, but they are NOT so obsessed with them that they lose sight of their views on the merits of killing US.
The political discourse in our country has become TV wrestling writ large. In TV wrestling everyone knows the outcome of the "matches" is fixed, but those who enjoy it (NOTE- not me)watch it for all the yelling and soap opera that accompanies it. Our politicians of late (R and D) have taken to yelling at each other and pointing out minute philosophical differences in party positions to keep the observer from noticing that they really aren't getting much done. If, two years after the fact, you are still arguing about the Bush and Kerry military records take note: you have been sucked in. Mentally tune out of the political TV wrestling show and take stock of the world at large. Please note that I have advocated no particular favor with regard to our political parties or philosophies. I have opinions, but I will not participate in the soap opera.

With regard to the article, the man is right. I will be the first to say that I am biased on the subject; the military was my profession. Nonetheless, leadership learned under fire imparts character, and it leaves a mark on a person after hostilities cease. When the test of your leadership skills involves responsibility for the lives of others, your priorities change. Of the elements of character required to be successful in the military, integrity is the most prized. (This is not to say that all who serve in the military have integrity, but the military system is very adept at weeding out those who do not have it.)
In my years of service, I have met (and lost) people whose character, intelligence, humanity, love, patriotism, AND LEADERSHIP constantly remind me of the better things in people I will always strive to find in myself.
Those kinds of experiences create leadership skills that people gravitate to, and always have.
-George Washington was given carte blanche to run the country and the Revolutionary War in any way he saw fit by the Continental Congress. Had he been a man of less character, he could have set himself up as a de facto king. However, his character and the leadership skills learned in military service kept those he led loyal under terrible circumstances. Washington was a proud man, he did not beg those under him to serve, he LED them with his bearing.
(Note- If you have time, read 1776, by James McCullough. I happened to pick it up in an airport recently, and could not put it down through the entire flight. The book discusses George Wahington, his mistakes and his triumphs in detail. SUPER read.)
-John F. Kennedy also gained character and leadership skill in adversity while in uniform.

Zingen
Congrats on the retirement!

Beans, bullets, and band-aids. Can't fight a war w/o em.

I read 1776 and it was AWESOME!

My venture capitalist/CEO brother-in-law turned me on to it. It's AWESOME to see him debate a lib (he lives in a lib blue zone) and wipe the floor with them.

If there had been today's Dhimmicrats back in 1776, we'd still be living on bended knee to a tyrant 3000 miles away.

GunnyG
Thank you, Sir. After all the years of duty I'm beginning to wonder what I'm going to do with all this TIME! :-)

Frankly, if some folks don't start getting the point, we could end up on bent knee to latter day tyrants as well.

McCain Vietnam Service Shady Like Kerry?
Does anyone have reliable documentation of McCain's VN
service?

I seem to recall during his Democrat funded, MSM
promoted, and DNCcrossovervote-in-a-GOP-Primary-
sustained effort to harm Bush and the GOP for personal
gain in 2000 some doubts about the quality of his
service were raised.

As I recall McCain had a documented history of
carelessness and recklessness -- big surprise -- and
that his capture and collateral capture of those
associated with him were the result of one such
incident.

Anyone have documentation of this or was it "just one of
those rumors"? I do not wish to be a party to rumors
but my memory is that there were some hard facts from
his service record re. his lack of self-discipline esp.
listening to and cooperating with leaders.

Sure he, and many others, suffered at the hands of the
war criminals running the North Vietnamese POW camps;
however, only a liberal Democrat would claim that being
a victim qualifies one for leadership. In the real
world only successful executive leadership qalifies one
for higher levels of executive leadership -- and folks
who do well in the legislative branch tend to be very
poor executives -- different skill set.

We need to know this now (if true) since we can be
certain we will see it everywhere if the GOP lost it's
collective mind and nominated McCain in 2008.

D.Colburn in Florida

Military service no anecdote for morals
Sorry, but I live in a military town. I have a great many friends who are Army and Air Force. Most of my family served in World War II, my brother and several cousins served in Vietnam. One died there. I consider my friends who are in the military good men and women; however, I know a dark side to military service that many of you are not acknowledging.

I know a fair number of good young people who have entered military service to return later as alcholics and womanizers. Might college have done that to them as well? Perhaps. Their siblings who chose college instead appear to have turned out better, is my observation.

A lot of military folks like to retire here, so where I work is often their first non-military job. I have worked with a lot of lazy, unqualified, arrogant ex-military folks. I've worked with a few who were excellent workers, but the bad definitely outweigh the good. I've seen plenty of thieves and liars come out of the military. I've seen a lot of regimented, conforming thought come from the military. I've also been on the receiving end a few times of former military who assume they know better how to live civilian life than do people who have been civilians and I've seen creative ideas with track records dumped because they didn't meet military conformity standards, usually to the detriment of the company.

I think that a good character that goes into the military can come out a better person, but that a wanting character will only come out more wanting. My brother is the only teen miscreant I know who turned into a good man while in the military and that was, I believe, because he had good stuff to from our mother and grandparents to begin with, he just needed hard experiences to reverse the poor example of his father.

My friends who are military and exmilitary know that I have the highest respect for them, but that I judge them by the content of their characters as expressed in their daily behavior and attitudes and not by the length or bravery of their military service. To think that is a good arbitrator of who might be a good leader, I think says you don't know very many ex-military members.

Dear Borat.....I mean Doc
This is a joke, right?

"Sure he, and many others, suffered at the hands of the war criminals running the North Vietnamese POW camps; however, only a liberal Democrat would claim that being
a victim qualifies one for leadership."

I used to have a friend who liked saying stupid, deliberately obtuse things just to get reactions. He's no longer a friend, and as far as I'm aware, he has no other friends.

If it's all the same to you, I don't think I'll play.

zingen
Dad taught us that death is preferable to life on bended knee. He had a few friends in Japanese POW camps, one I met, who had been severely tortured, things like teeth pulled out with pliers, fingernails yanked out, etc.

This VRWC Charter Member won't go down w/o a fight. If the Dhimmicrats want one, welllll, shucks.

Aurora
I don't disagree. You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. That being said, the military is a great place to mold the character of a persom who has the propensity to develop and the motivation to better himself. It's that simple.

GunnyG
Have you read Flyboys?

Near Iwo Jima is an island named Chichi Jima. American fliers who were captured there were executed and eaten by Japanese military officers. Another fascinating read.

Japanese atrocities in China in WWII make european atrocities look like a warm up act.

Thanks GunnyG and Zingen....
...for proving my point that some Conservatives are unable to discuss issues without personally attacking those they disagree with.

btw Gunny G, I'm a religious Jew who thinks suicide bombers are the lowest form of scum. But your post to me is so full of hate (aimed at someone you've never met!), I doubt you would grant me that point or any other. I would, however, with your permission, like to send it to Dennis Prager the next time he claims that the liberal blogs are filled with personal attacks while the conservative blogs contain reasoned debates of issues.

Zingen- your closing sentence reminds me of something my late father once said to me: "Lawyers are no damn good- until you need one".:)

I agree 100%
The current war is not like the war in Viet Nam. And the duty to serve one's country hasn't gone away. I have an article on my blog "Reflections on Manliness" that dovetails nicely with this thought at http://heartlandpartriot.townhall.com for anyone interested. Let me also post a couple of quotes that seem appropos:

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
John Stuart Mill

"We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm."
George Orwell

Lawyer....
Soooooo.... Homicide bombers are the lowest form of scum.
-Ridding the area of Saddam Hussein eliminated one source of funding for suicide bombers- after all in a part of the world replete with enormous poverty a $25,000.00 gift is a powerful incentive to strap on the C-4 and head across the border into Israel. In fact, given the size of the prize, so to speak, one in that predicament might see the trade of one life versus a chance for comfort for an entire family as virtuous.
-Homicide bombers have killed thousands of innocent Israeli men, women, and children.

Disregard the fact that all of the available intelligence suggested that Saddam had the weapons. Disregard the fact that if he had he had those weapons and placed them in circumstances wherein they may have been used against American citizens, particularly in the heated atmosphere after 9/11, the President would have been villified FOREVER as having not acted in the face of information provided by several corroborating sources....oh wait... you can't disregard any of that because:

1. Given what you have written, your antipathy towards the President and his Party overcomes any judgement you might otherwise have had. It doesn't matter what he did, does, or will do, in your view it will be wrong.
2. Once one sees that you are philosophically blinded by your antipathy, you have disqualified yourself from meaningful discussion. Imagine bringing suit before a judge who is as closed minded as you are.
3. Finally, your blanket generalizations about "Conservatives" brand you as being as one-sided and inflexible as the homicide bombers you profess to despise. How ironic.

Brother, we're all supposed to be on the same team. If you read my other post, you'll find that I returned from Iraq a short time ago. I ran into radical Muslims from both sects over there, and though they hate eac other, I can tell you without any hesitation that they hate us more. I do apologize for demeaning your profession. You're right, of course. If I found myself accused of something the first person I'd call would be a lawyer. A lawyer with the largest dorsal fin I could find. :-)
I have heard soldiers characterized as "knuckle draggers", butI have a Master's Degree as do most field-grade officers.

HH's point is proved.
The gist of HH's column was that the question that will arise will really be about courage not military service. He postulates that the underlying question will be about personal courage and conviction and that military service is an open show of bravery. It takes more courage to suborn your life to an institution which may or may not put you in harms way, but by its very nature is a dangerous place anyway.Traing accidents do happen along with stupid accidents that kill military people every year. Taking the safe way out and finding excuses for those actions show no courage or convictions; except maybe the convition that ones own survival is paramount.Such person is suspect to all clear thinking citizens.
I also se a lot of projecting here that proves HH's points perfectly. Many posters are projecting their own feelings onto people like John Kerry and the President. Most of those doing the projecting have not served and it it is obivious in their post. As HH stated the question of courage or lack there of are the aurguments raised. Those that lack military service are quick to let their prejudices run free and attack those they see as lacking (I.E. our current President) Clearly this is wrong. Those of us that have served also project negative feelings toward our predjudices(I.E. Senator Kerry), but we have the filter of our military experinces to back up our predjudices. Thats how we gained those predjudices. Most veterans problems with Senetaor Kerry are not about his actual enlisment; it is about how he conducted himself while wearing the uniform and after his release from active duty. As Zigen and a couple of others have posted we are quickly losing focus on reality that we are in a war and that Afghanistan and Iraq are theatres of that war. I see politicians of both parties comiting this mistake, but more on the Dems side.
As I have posted before its time to stop suborning the military mission with this self serving nonsense projected by the liberals. Nothing is more important than the lives of our military members and your moonbattery is not protecting them its getting them killed; more so than the people you claim to be responsible for this mess. No war ever went the way it was planned. Get over it. Do what is best for your country and step aside and let the people fighting complete their mission. A stable Iraqi goverment with a military and police force that can protect the country and inforces its' laws. Failure is not an option; neither is withdrawl as both will have the same results.Iraq destroyed as acountry and existing only as apuppet state of Iran and Turkey.(split North from South)

zingen....
....you sure profess to know a lot about me for someone who hasn't met me. Here are a few things I believe which may surprise you:

---I think President Bush's military service was entirely honorable. That's right; I don't think he's a "draft dodger". I hate that his service to his country has been attacked. I also think Kerry's service was entirely honorable and hate that his service has been attacked; OTOH what Kerry said and did upon returning from Viet Nam is totally fair game.

---I don't reflexively "hate Bush" and think he or Republicans are "always wrong". I thought he handled the period directly after 9/11 brilliantly. I completely supported the war in Afhganistan. (I also think he's got the right idea on immigration, with which many conservatives disagree). I've even voted for Republicans, including Arnold Schwarzenegger for Governor of California.

---My opinion that attacking Iraq was a horrible strategic mistake has nothing to do with Bush hatred or lack of knowledge that Saddam was a very bad man. It has to do with the fact that what is going on now- an intractible civil war with three factions, a strengthened Iran, and the permanent damage to our reputation- was utterly predictable.

You claim I've made "blanket statement about conservatives. Go back and re-read what I wrote- I said SOME Conservatives (the ones who read too much Ann Coulter and listen to too much talk radio) have become unable to have a civil discussion without engaging in personal attacks. The same is obviously true of SOME liberals.

But we're on a conservative site here, and I was just bemused noting all of the Kerry-hatred that always follows any discussion of the military. And now Murtha? It would really be nice, some time, to see some Conservative stand up and say: "Stop! These men served their country in battle. They risked their lives! Enough of trying to defame their service all these years later! Criticise their stance on issues but leave their service record alone!" Just as I've started this post by condemning liberals who attack the President's service.

Without knowing me, or actually attempting to engage me, you reached broad conclusions about me because I'm a lawyer, a liberal (yes, a proud liberal), and an opponent of the Iraq war. You think that I'm as "one-sided and closed-minded as homicide bombers". I ask you to consider what predisposed notions you have that could cause you to jump to such assumptions. And to reconsider them. I suggest you read Lanny Davis' new book, "Scandal: How Gotcha Politics is Destroying America".

You see, we are all on the same team. It's just a tad tiring to be called a "traitor" if you dare to disagree with this Administration or express concern that we not, in the zeal to defend this country, lose that which makes it worth defending.

Mr. Hugh Hewitt's "PRESSURE POINT"
Our nation continues its plunge into Second Civil War~virulence of the remnant Middle class, Christian Red States, against Blue state confederation of radical secularists; anti-Christians and Northeastern intellectual inbreds and their West Coast homies;is palpable and festering. A NATIONAL SERVICE ACT(2-3 years service in military or VISTA/CCC-type duty with subsequent GI bill type benefits awarded)might provide renewal of National Identity and cohesion-as-Americans to Young People who psychically absorb the scorn the Boomer generation has foisted upon its children while contiunally seeking its own apotheosis.
Regarding POLITICAL "worthiness" I refer you to Aristotle's classic mandatum for a citizen requirng military service as sine qua non rite of passage to the Right TO RULE. In our Yuppie Nation's Culture of Death(47,000,000 abortions) a notion of Duty and Obligation is almost an alien category. Mr.Hugh Hewitt's prescient id-chord remarks are Not essentially about the military,but what it means to be a NATIONAL POLITY and existentially...an HONORABLE MAN. Arthur F. McVarish (25 years urban High School teaching service in Texas;with military and Vista service as 60's "youth" growing up in Massachusetts.)One does,indeed,become what he beholds...yet amazing in power & strenghth Or: howling in dread & pain......

Substanial Duty?
Kerry served three months in Vietnam and had three questionable purple crosses. Pres Bush was in the national guard flying very complicated airplanes. He put in for active duty but his squad was never assigned to Vietnam. That isn't his fault.

I'm 21 ....
dont want to serve b/c i dont want to go to iraq, i have a general distrust for our commander in chief and am troubled by our lack of compliance with the geneva standards regarding detainee treatment.
Do i lack courage?
Is my stance legitimate?
Should i serve regardless of these beliefs?

LawyerMan....
-I professed to know nothing about you. I made observations based on your posts.
-I gave no indication of my political leanings.
-I agree that the Iraq war has been mismanaged, but given all of the intelligence available at the time- (Note- I am a recently retired Army officer)- I think the President felt he had no option but to act. Consider the alternatives from his point of view in the light of events at the time. Saddam was de-stabilizing the region (while subsidizing the murder of those of your faith) while simultaneously threatening the United States. Had the President, ANY President failed to act and Saddam had made good on his promises Heaven knows what might have occurred.
It bothers me that many of my countrymen- no specifics here, you may not- take such glee in the fact that these terrible weapons were never found. Shouldn't certain knowledge of that be a relief?
During the Saddam trials earler last year some of the Kurd victims of the gas attacks had come to the Green Zone to testify. Their disfigurements were akin to third degree burns. Isn't it better to know that Saddam had no real capability to do that to us, or to sell those weapons to someone who would?
I suppose one might say that the U.N. could have determinted the answers to questions about Iraq's military capabilities, but it was pretty obvious that if Iraq had a nuclear weapon sitting on a parade float in the middle of Bagdad, the U.N.- well-known to be financially compromised- inspectors would not have reported it.

That said, I do agree with you that NCA (National Command Authority- the Predident, et al.) has mismanaged certain aspects of the effort ever since. They underestimated the vehemence of the hatred between the two Islamic sects, and they did not take into account that the culture is morally completely different from our own. Here in the U.S. we take our freedoms and rights as a matter of fact. In Iraq the common citizen has had almost no rights or freedoms in a couple of generations. It is heartbreaking to see an IED kill Iraqi civilians; not merely because they are dead, but because after a few moments of grief relatices and passersby assume a fatalistic sort of torpor, as though being blown to bits was just too bad, can't change it. I think the President and his advisors expected the common Iraqi citizen to rise up after the boot had been removed from his neck, but did not take into account that it will be some time before Iraqi citizens begin to see individual rights and freedoms as a birthright- as we do. That was a mistake- but an understandable mistake. I think it's more amazing that we as a society have co-existed with Arabic societies for so long and we are largely ignorant of each other's customs.

-Finally, in my opinion it makes no difference to me if one is a Liberal, a Conservative, or a Martian for that matter, so long as they are not an idealogue. Frankly, over here idealogues are an amusing pain in the *ss, but over there they are deadly.

Take Care, LawyerMan.

Seth
As a recent military retiree I may be able to answer your questions.
1. Only you know if you have the courage to face the challenges of military service. In my experience no one is born with some requisite amount of courage; it is gained through experience. Often, what some call courage is merely the ability to think under pressure without resorting to panic, and that's a learned skill.
2. No, your stance is not legitimate, and my saying so has nothing to do with the President. Your decision to serve your country in the miltary should MOST OF ALL be a reflection of your estimation of the worth of your freedoms and the freedoms of those whom you love. People who view their service in those terms tend to be successful at it. Just as in any other field of endeavor, there are those who just see it as a job. I will say that in 22 years of service including two tours in Iraq, the men I served with (some whom I lost)had courage, humanity, kindness, concern, integrity, loyalty, dedication, and caring, and THAT'S a pretty good thing to have around you when the chips are down. Leaders and administrations will come and go- THIS President will eventually finish his term- but this country will still need people who are willing to stand and defend it in place of those who won't.
3. I you feel strongly enough, yes.

My Daughter
My adult daughter came to her dad and me 7 months ago. Her dad is a retired USAF fighter pilot. I served 7 years active duty and left the service after she was born because I did not think it right to expose her to both parents being deployed or TDY. She had done all the paperwork to enlist in the Reserve. When she told us, we were surprised. She had never mentioned it. I said, "Obviously, I have no objection, but what led you to decide this?" Her response was "You served. Dad served. I want to serve." She left in July for basic. She had medical issues and they wanted to discharge her. She fought tooth and toenail to stay in. They blinked before she did. She started tech school today. She will finished February 7, 2007 and expects to deploy with her Reserve unit shortly after she gets home. I can't tell you how proud we are of her.

Beyond Moronic
my god, i can't believe anyone would buy into this asinine, hypocritical chickenhawk's utterly baseless -- and flat-out stupid -- arguments.

first of all, anyone with a brain knows that 9/11 was an inside job, designed to foster a war of 'convenience,' that was laid out by the project for the new american century in 2000.

http://www.newamericancentury.org/

consider the fact that one of their primary articles ('rebuilding america's defenses...') calls for a war of conquest, beginning in iraq, making its way to iran and syria, and then finally cutting a swath through central asia (no doubt to secure the CIA's well-established heroin trade), and then into north korea and finally (yes) china.

yet, how did the PNAC, headed by dick cheney, condoleezza rice, donald rumsfeld, jeb bush, and a host of other neo-cons, expect to get the american people behind this 'long-lasting'war?

simple.

as they wrote -- nearly one year to the date of 9/11 -- it would take 'a catastrophic and catalyzing event -- like a new pearl harbor' to do so. voila! one year later, we have 9/11 and the march is on.

why is this important, other than for incredibly obvious reasons? it is important because it shows how our 'leaders' bring us into war. all that crap about 'duty,' 'honor,' and the like are nothing but a front that conniving, paid-off apologists such as hewitt use to feed the war machine.

and as if that's not enough, how does hewitt explain how a drug-addled alcoholic such as W., who is technically a deserter by definition, rose to the highest seat in the land despite his unwillingness to even show up for an armed forces physical?

of course, there are many more reasons, such as: what does the iraq war have to do with 9/11? absolutely nothing!

the list goes on and on, but for now, do yourself a favor and wake up. go watch this video right now and send it to everyone you know. hewitt is a liar and a fraud and history will certainly judge him as such.

in the meantime, go ahead, be a TRUE patriot. watch this video and discover more about people like hugh hewitt.

http://www.loosechange911.com/

Solis, what would it be like....
If you had your OWN opinion? Instead of parroting the idiotic theories of others and pointing readers to websites that parrot the idiotic theories of others, really get out there in the world. Learn something. Here are some suggestions:

1. Remove your tin foil hat; there really aren't any government microwave transmissions aimed at brainwashing you. Besides, read the stupid junk theory you just posted, think about whether any of those theories seem likely, and you'll probably come to the conclusion that you HAVE ALREADY BEEN BRAINWASHED.

2. Put down the computer for a while, and slowly back away. Unseal the air-lock and unlock ALL TEN LOCKS from the outer door of your lead-lined, deeply buried, environmentally controlled, LOGIC PROOF bunker, and emerge. CAUTION! You'll need some sort of protective eyewear. If you're willing to believe 9/11 was an inside job, it's plain you haven't seen the actual SUN in some time.
2. Read some real literature, (NOTE- The classics are a good place to start, NO MORE FICTION!)- view the sky, interact with a real, living human being.
3. Stop eating Cheetos whilst feverishly whacking off at the thought of the demise of the American government and the resulting fall of society into anarchy and chaos. The bright orange genitals will frighten average people after your emergence into real society.


Good Luck and Godspeed, Space Cadet!

Zingen, Zingen, Zingen....
your comment is about as blatantly stupid as what i expected to receive.

1.) how on earth do you claim to know me and what my actual opinion is? what information could you possibly have about me to indicate that this is not my true opinion??

after my best friend died in WTC 1, i was devastated and i, too, called for osama bin laden's head. i thought i was being a patriot by doing so.

it wasn't until five months later that my own common sense hit me: 'those photos of the pentagon do NOT look like a 757 hit it...' and that was when i began doing my own research.

and you know what? i was the first person -- that i knew of -- on the planet to believe this possibility (which became a certainty after years of steady research). today, i am hardpressed to find a friend who doesn't have their own suspicions. and contrary to what you might believe, i used to be a hard-core republican and reaganite. my best friend's dad was roommate's with tommy thompson in college and tommy and i have met numerous times. that's just one example.

don't try to tell me i am trumpeting someone else's views, moron. i was the first.

2.) everything you wrote about in your iditotic diatribe is completely baseless; there is nothing intelligent, logical, or sensible in it. it's all aboout getting more sun and eating less cheetos, or some imbecilic crap that is entirely irrelevant and completely indicative of those who prefer to argue with insults rather than reason -- which is basically everyone too fearful to look at the facts.

finally, because your limited mind-power clearly could use a bit of assistance, let me provide you some food for thought:

1.) how could a group of coke-heads, none of whom could even fly a cessna, led by a guy on dialysis in a cave, best the world's greatest on-alert fighting and intelligence machine, even heading -- completely unmolested for forty minutes -- toward the world's most heavily fortified building to crash into it? doesn't the FAA have rules about those things? (for instance, that they must be escorted by jets immediately after leaving the protocol? the answer is yes.)

2. why did WTC 7 collapse at 5:20pm, when it was not hit by any plane, was barely on fire, and no skyscraper has fallen due to fire (including major infernos that went on for days) before that day?

3. why is there no wreckage from the fuselage, the tail, the wings, the jet engines, or any of the people, at the pentagon? why does the hole in the building not match -- in any way -- the hole that a 757 woudl make? furthermore, why DOES the hole perfectly match what a cruise missile would make? why did donald rumsfeld mention a 'missile' hitting the pentagon in Parade magazine?

4. why was the debris from flight 93 spread out over eight miles, clearly indicating it was shot down?

5. why were there dozens of secondary explosions all throughout the world trade centers, witnessed by firefighters, newscasters, workers, etc. that have STILL not been explained?

6. why were the put options (bets that a stock will fall) on boeing, united, and american airlines, up to ELEVEN times the normal amounts in the days preceding the attacks of 9/11?

finally, if yuo have dpoubts about precedent, just look up 'operation northwoods' and read what you find.

i could go on and on, but frankly, given your embarrasingly adolescent rant, i doubt you could understand it anyway.

suffice it to say, for anyone else reading this who may appear to have the intelligent capacity to reason, rather than hurl insults that aren't even clever, simply watch 'loose change' to see the light. you will never be the same once you discover that a small cabal in your own government attacked your country on 9/11.

http://www.loosechange911.com/

Solis
Oh look, YET another website. How quaint.
-I was clearly wrong on the suggestions: by all means, please remove your tin foil hat only long enough to wrap your head in duct tape. This will prevent passersby from injury when your silly, obssesive-compulsive little head boils over with delusional paranoid theories and explodes.
As for your "facts", I will not waste my time in debate with you. The first precept one learns in a philosophy class is that the fact that because something is written somewhere does not make it true. If you have not learned that, it means you truly believe Elvis has a three-headed baby and that the Spider Monkey Boy really exists just like it says in the supermarket checkout tabloids.



Proving once again...
...that the radical right-wing has NO ability to reason with FACTS and can only hurl venomous insults in place of intellectual fortitude.

your stupid, juvenile rants, isnults and remarks bore me.

is there ANYBODY out there who can have an actual, intelligent debate based on facts, without resorting to insults?

of course not. it would destroy the radical right-wing and all of you in it.

why don't you all just come down and admit that any debate based on FACTS is one you will never win?

what about those put options?

what about the debris spread out over eight miles?

what about the secondary explosions?

what about the egregious lack of wreckage at the pentagon?

oh, wait -- i'm sorry -- am i becoming UNHINGED? is it my collective stupidity talking? my apologies -- i'll try to debate with invective, slander, insults, and adolescent rants from now on. clearly, FACTS have no place in a republican-dominated blogosphere.
Sign Up to Post Your CommentsSign Up to Post Your Comments
If you are already registered, click here to login. Otherwise, please take a few seconds to register with Townhall.com. Once you sign up, you’ll be able to post your comments immediately, use the action center, get podcasts, and more!
Note: Fields marked with a red asterisk (*) are required.
Salutation:
First Name:
*
Last Name:
*
Email:
*
Nickname:
*
Note: Nick name will be shown when you post comments.
Address 1:
*
Address 2:
City:
*
State:
*
Zip:
*
Phone:
      
Your daily must-read of conservative columns, cartoons and news. Coulter, Sowell, Krauthammer and more.
(Bi-Weekly) We highlight the best opportunities from our partners for surveys, action items and more.